Guest guest Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 om gurave namah Dear Nitish, Motion that is not changing will not cause polarization. To define polarization on the basis of motion you need a reference motion. Zodiac is defined on the basis of Sun and Moon, so also the zodiacal movement or succession-be it of degrees or signs. Polarization can only be caused by retrogression. Warm regards, Tijana sohamsa , " yeeahoo_99 " <nitish.arya wrote: > > || OM TAT SAT || > Dear Anand, > Ok, lets understand this correctly. Don't expect people with Rahu > AK to be spiritual only because of 5,7,9 drishti, because that would > imply that those with Jupiter AK are also spiritual by default. > Spirituality has nothing to do with drishti of planets, otherwise > Ketu would also have it. Right? > > 1. Spiritual karma, unless carried over from past life, dawns fastest > to people with Su,Mo,Ra AK because their motion never changes > direction, causing a gross polarity to develop in the Zodiac and > aggregate over time, making them face severe cicumstances that > require them to seek inwards for balance. > > 2. Next, (refer autobiography of a yogi " by yogananda), nature is > dualistic which means there is no absolute reality to this phenomenal > world, and the seeming reality is caused by an equation of opposite > polarities. So, in all natural sciences, there is a mathematical > equation of balance: -ve pole = +ve pole > while there is no individual reality of -ve and +ve pole. They are > better still replaceable by a single substratum of absolute reality > i.e. Brahman. > > 3. Since AQ,CP signs are naturally in 2-12 relation, they bring a > person faster to spiritual realisations, if they are linked with AK- > Ishta devata scheme in Navamsa. > > Hope it is clear. > regards, > Nitish > > sohamsa , " Anand Ravi " <anandravi8@> wrote: > > > > Om Namah Shivaya > > > > Dear Nitish, Namaste > > > > Rahu has the same Drishti as Jupiter so people with Rahu as AK can > be very > > spiritual, Which is true in most of the charts I have seen. > > > > I dont understand exactly what you are saying in your below email. > Can you > > please > > explain in detail, in layman's language. > > > > Rgds > > Anand > > > > On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 10:33 AM, yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@> wrote: > > > > > || OM TAT SAT || > > > Dear Anand, > > > Karakamsa is a lagna of CharaKaraka i.e. AK, so Karaka itself is a > > > reference by position to a specific Navamsa which is important. > It is > > > a rashi which allows us to count in succession (in either > direction) > > > and thus relate to the 360 degree. > > > The fundamental principle of Nature is Duality, therefore, > counting > > > in succession is both zodiacal and anti-zodiacal. In the scheme of > > > charakaraka, based on the direction in which the planet is > moving, we > > > count their degree strength in D-1 and Ishta devata sign in D-9. > > > Similarly, AK-Ishta devata are but representatives of dualistic or > > > polarized philosophy. The lesser the polarity, the more evolved > the > > > soul. Thus, people like Ramakrishna Paramahama, Paramhamsa > Yogananda, > > > Therese Neumann etc. with AK-Ishta along AQ,CP are highly evolved > > > souls. > > > So, it would be a grave mistake, if we get biased by opinions and > > > interpretations which don't fulfill the conditions imposed upon > > > mortals by the natures' law of duality. You can apply it and see > for > > > yourself. > > > > > > regards, > > > Nitish > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>, > " Anand Ravi " > > > <anandravi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Namah Shivaya > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish, Namaste > > > > > > > > 1. Noted your defination for drishti. > > > > > > > > 2. So now you say it should be 12th rasi and not the planet > placed > > > in the > > > > 12th house from > > > > AK. Is there any dictum to it? > > > > > > > > 3. You mean to say retro planets does not know which is clock > and > > > anti-clock > > > > direction? Correct? > > > > > > > > Looking forward your reply. > > > > > > > > Rgds > > > > Anand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 11:26 PM, yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT || > > > > > Dear Michal and Ravi, > > > > > What doesn't seem right in Ke as ishta devata, please > elaborate > > > > > your question? > > > > > Jupiter and Ketu positioned in Leo in the constellation of Ke > as > > > > > ishta devata is sufficient to give headship and following, > and GK > > > > > Jupiter would show that he started off in adverse > cicumstances. > > > > > Do you have Saturn AK Michal? > > > > > > > > > > Anand > > > > > 1. Drishti is a function of longitude WRT longitude of the > planet > > > and > > > > > not the direction in which it is moving. Drishti of retrograde > > > > > planets therefore stays very much the same. > > > > > 2. You needn't worry about the retrograde planet in 12th from > AK, > > > > > because the ishta has to do with the 12th Rashi from karakamsa > > > more > > > > > than the planets in 12th. Reason: because rashi controls the > karma > > > > > that is being manifested from the souls' repository of karma, > as > > > in > > > > > ND rashi. > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > Nitish > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40> > <sohamsa% > > > 40>, Michal > > > > > Dziwulski <nearmichal@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Nitish, > > > > > > > > > > > > How about the chart of Srila Prabhupad - Rahu Atmakaraka > with > > > Sun > > > > > and Moon in the 12th. What you are proposing would make > Scorpio > > > the > > > > > focus with Mars and Ketu as the lords. Just doesn't seem right > > > huh? > > > > > What are your thoughts? > > > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yeeahoo_99 <nitish.arya@> > > > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40> > <sohamsa% > > > 40> > > > > > > Tuesday, April 1, 2008 4:58:23 AM > > > > > > (ishta devata) Re: Re: JAI SRIKRISHNA TO > ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT || > > > > > > Dear Visti and Sanjayji, > > > > > > In case of retrograde planets including Rahu Ishta devata > should > > > > > > be seen from 2nd from AK in D-9. That way you won't need to > > > worry > > > > > > about why Ramakrishna Paramahamsa worshipped Kali or why > Therese > > > > > > Neumann (with AK Ra in Cp in 12th from D-9 asc.) was a > famous > > > saint > > > > > > just like Vivekananda (with AK Su in Sg in 2nd from D-9 > asc.). > > > > > > > > > > > > Likewise, as your AK is Rahu you should worship ishta > devata as > > > > > > seen from Sa+Su combination in Leo in your D-9 asc. Similar > is > > > the > > > > > > case of Sanjayji, with retrograde Saturn as AK in Virgo in > D-9, > > > his > > > > > > ishta devata should be seen from Libra and he is so famous > for > > > > > > clarity of his writings in Me Mahadasha which is in the > star of > > > > > Ishta > > > > > > devata sign lord Venus. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dharma devata also changes accordingly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > You will find that not everyone has a natural liking for > their > > > > > > >Ishta Devata and this can depend on other factors such as > Ketu, > > > > > > >Rasi, Vimsamsa, etc. I.e. Ramakrishna Paramahamsa preferred > > > Kali > > > > > > >over Rama in his worship, yet he had very deep spiritual > > > > > experiences > > > > > > >which can only be attributed to the Ishta devata/Paramatma. > > > > > > >So we do use aspects, but only when we wanto lead the > person to > > > > > > >the Ishta Devata through a Devata they may prefer more. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ofcourse, it will take time to adjust to the new ishta > devata, > > > but > > > > > > in case you have different views, we can always discuss. > Hope > > > that > > > > > > clears " now widespread " misunderstanding . > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > Nitish > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Visti Larsen <visti@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? ??? ?????? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sharat, Namaskar > > > > > > > The rule you quote about the Ishta Devata is from VRA, > but is > > > > > only > > > > > > half > > > > > > > right i must say. However, your confusion is justified > and i > > > will > > > > > > > explain why the rule of aspects has been omitted by > Freedom > > > Cole > > > > > > in his > > > > > > > lectures. I have personally taught this to my students > 'off > > > > > > session' as > > > > > > > it can give rise to alot of confusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let there be no doubt that the planets placed in the 12th > from > > > > > > > karakamsa, or if none, the lord of 12th from the > karakamsa is > > > the > > > > > > Ishta > > > > > > > Devata. This is the REAL form of the Ishta Devata and how > the > > > > > > person > > > > > > > looks at God in their lives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, the aspect of planets on the 12th from karakamsa > is > > > > > > useful in > > > > > > > understanding whether the person can be LED to the Ishta > > > Devata > > > > > > through > > > > > > > another Devata. You will find that not everyone has a > natural > > > > > > liking for > > > > > > > their Ishta Devata and this can depend on other factors > such > > > as > > > > > > Ketu, > > > > > > > Rasi, Vimsamsa, etc. I.e. Ramakrishna Paramahamsa > preferred > > > Kali > > > > > > over > > > > > > > Rama in his worship, yet he had very deep spiritual > > > experiences > > > > > > which > > > > > > > can only be attributed to the Ishta devata/Paramatma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we do use aspects, but only when we wanto lead the > person > > > to > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Ishta Devata through a Devata they may prefer more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope this clears things. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Visti Larsen > > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@ ...> > > > > > > > For consultations and articles visit: http://srigaruda. > com > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda. com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharat wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay jis rule as I seem to understand is: > > > > > > > > 1. First consider the planet in the bhava > > > > > > > > 2. If no planet then strongest aspect by rasi drishti > > > > > > > > 3. If none, then take the Lord of the Bhava > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There does seem to be an opinion that Lord of the Bhava > be > > > > > > considered > > > > > > > > over the Rasi drishti, as you rightly point out. > Perhaps one > > > > > > needs to > > > > > > > > examine the D20 chart to see which is stronger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also meant to ask whether you had some resolution of > the > > > > > query > > > > > > > > regarding Gemstone use when planets are in conjunction > or > > > > > > parivartan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not get any reposne to my query. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > ** vedicastrostudent <vedicastros tudent@ .> > > > > > > > > *To:* sohamsa@ .com > > > > > > <sohamsa@ .com> > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 10, 2007 8:23 PM > > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: JAI SRIKRISHNA TO ALL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Soulsadhak, > > > > > > > > I know your question was to Swee, but I heard a couple > of > > > > > > audios - > > > > > > > > perhaps it was Freedom Cole's (Vyasa SJC) - in which > this > > > > > was > > > > > > > > discussed. He said that you consider the strongest > planet > > > > > IN > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > house as the Ishta. If there is none, I think what > Sanjay > > > > > > Rathji had > > > > > > > > said was that the planets having rasi dristi (not graha > > > > > > dristi) to > > > > > > > > 12th (from AK Navamsa) will lead you to your Ishta. > > > > > However, > > > > > > Freedom > > > > > > > > said that the lord of the 12th from AK Navamsa still > > > > > > signifies your > > > > > > > > Ishta (even though those having rasi dristi may lead > you to > > > > > > it). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In general, to those who dont know, I have found the > > > > > > recordings at > > > > > > > > Freedom's, Visti's and PVR's sites to be very useful.. > Here > > > > > > is the > > > > > > > > one you ask about: http://shrifreedom. com/VyasaSJC/ > > > > > > California.htm > > > > > > > > <http://shrifreedom. com/VyasaSJC/ California. htm> > > > > > > > > look at the 25 September 2005 recordings (I think) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HTH, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com > > > > > > <sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> <sohamsa%25> 40. > com>, > > > > > > > > " Soul Sadhak " <soulsadhak@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Swee, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please can you advise if there is no planet in the > house > > > > > > concerned > > > > > > > > > (wrt ID, PD or DD)what do we best consider: > > > > > > > > > 1. lord of the house > > > > > > > > > 2. strongest plaent having graha drishti on that house > > > > > > > > > 3. strongest planet having rasi drishti on that house > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks > > > > > > > > > SS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com > > > > > > > > <sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> <sohamsa%25> > 40. com>, > > > Swee Chan > > > > > <sweechan@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jaya Jagannatha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Deepak, > > > > > > > > > > Namaste > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No to both; Moon is in 3rd pada Punarvasu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Navamsa, the 12th from AK is Ishta Devata and > Palana > > > > > > Devata > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > 6th from > > > > > > > > > > AmK also in Navamsa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 12/25/06 4:20 AM, " DEEPAK MODI " <deepakmodi4@ > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TASMAI SRIGURUVE NAMAH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RESPECTED SWEEJEE, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CHARANAARVINDE, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your teachings, I want to know that > > > > > whether > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > kundali is > > > > > > > > > > > afflicted by " MAHAPDMA KAALSARP YOG " or " ARDHA > CHANDRA > > > > > > > > > YOG " .Please shed more > > > > > > > > > > > light on Istha devata and Palan devata,the > difference > > > > > > or if > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > link to > > > > > > > > > > > know more about them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with deep respect, > > > > > > > > > > > Deepak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Swee Chan <sweechan@> > > > > > > > > > > >> sohamsa@ .com > > > > > > > > <sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> <sohamsa%25> > 40. com> > > > > > > > > > > >> Sohamsa <sohamsa@ .com > > > > > > > > <sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> <sohamsa%25> > 40. com>> > > > > > > > > > > >> Re: JAI SRIKRISHNA TO ALL > > > > > > > > > > >> Sat, 23 Dec 2006 18:55:05 +0200 > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> Jaya Jagannatha > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> Dear Deepak, > > > > > > > > > > >> Namaste > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> I see nothing of your worst fears. There is a > > > > > > position in Tai > > > > > > > > > Chi called > > > > > > > > > > >> " The Beauteous Hand " - that is to yield if one > > > > > cannot > > > > > > fight > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > forces > > > > > > > > > > >> beyond our control. > > > > > > > > > > >> Friends will possibly leave you, or you may be > more > > > > > > prone to > > > > > > > > > short > > > > > > > > > > >> temperedness which depletes you of energy (you > > > > > > naturally have > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > pitta > > > > > > > > > > >> condition as it is). Health may deteriorate > > > > > > further.... Co- > > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > Sani as the > > > > > > > > > > >> is badhakesh traversing in the 5th. Often times, > one > > > > > > turns to > > > > > > > > > bhakti > > > > > > > > > > >> because > > > > > > > > > > >> of external marauding nature especially being let > > > > > > down by > > > > > > > > > friends etc. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> Palana devata is Moon. - " Om Krsnaya Namah " -- > check > > > > > > in the > > > > > > > > > archives for > > > > > > > > > > >> mantars related to this. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> Jay Sr Krishna, Jay Sri Radhe > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> Love, > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> Swee > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> On 12/23/06 6:14 PM, " DEEPAK > MODI " <deepakmodi4@ > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >>> JAI JAGANNATH SWAMI NAYANPATH GAAMI BHAVA TUME > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> Dear Respected Sweejee, > > > > > > > > > > >>> Charanaarvinde > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> Firstly many many Thanks for your quick reply > and > > > > > > advices > > > > > > > > > about my > > > > > > > > > > >>> horoscope.Secondly purchasing a yellow sapphire > and > > > > > > a yellow > > > > > > > > > diamond is > > > > > > > > > > >> now > > > > > > > > > > >>> a too much costly job for me, any substitute - > > > > > > please guide > > > > > > > > me. > > > > > > > > > > >>> please tell me about what kind of " worst " I 'll > > > > > have > > > > > > to face > > > > > > > > > while > > > > > > > > > > >> Saturn > > > > > > > > > > >>> retrogrades and Rahu in Badhaksthaan, may be > Death > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > accidents to me or > > > > > > > > > > >> my > > > > > > > > > > >>> spouse or children (a Daughter born on 12th > > > > > nov.2000 > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > 15:53 > > > > > > > > > pm cuttack > > > > > > > > > > >> and > > > > > > > > > > >>> a son born on 28th nov 2002 at 11:53 am > cuttack). > > > > > > > > > > >>> I was suffering from " Shani-shadhesaati " and I > lost > > > > > > almost > > > > > > > > > everything. > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> with deep respect, > > > > > > > > > > >>> Deepak modi > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Swee Chan <sweechan@> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> sohamsa@ .com > > > > > > > > <sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> <sohamsa%25> > 40. com> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Sohamsa <sohamsa@ .com > > > > > > > > <sohamsa% <sohamsa%25> <sohamsa%25> > 40. com>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Re: JAI SRIKRISHNA TO ALL > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Sat, 23 Dec 2006 11:55:41 +0200 > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Jaya Jagannatha > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Dear Deepak, > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Namaste > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> A yellow sapphire, no less. Yellow > > > > > > diamondâEUR^( TM)s best to > > > > > > > > quell > > > > > > > > > transits > > > > > > > > > > >> and > > > > > > > > > > >>>> unsavoury natal placements of both Saturn and > Rahu > > > > > > who are > > > > > > > > > involved in > > > > > > > > > > >> a > > > > > > > > > > >>>> tug > > > > > > > > > > >>>> of war. Worse is yet to come when Saturn > > > > > > retrogrades and > > > > > > > > > transit Rahu > > > > > > > > > > >> is > > > > > > > > > > >>>> currently in badhakstana. > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Planets in lagna are involved in a paapa > kartari > > > > > > âEUR " a > > > > > > > > > negative aspect > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Love, > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Swee > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> On 12/23/06 10:29 AM, > " dpk_modi " <deepakmodi4@ > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Dear Sweejee,Sanjayjee & All respected jees of > > > > > > " SOHAMSA > > > > > > > > > GROUP " > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> " Charaanarbinde to all " > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> I am Deepak Modi D.O.B.-04thMay1968 time > 05:30 am > > > > > > > > > long.:85E56 > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> and lati.:20N26 (INDIA,ORISSA/ CUTTACK), newly > > > > > > joined The > > > > > > > > > Sohamsa > > > > > > > > > > >> Groups. > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> I am feeling very proud and lucky to be a > small > > > > > > part of > > > > > > > > > SOHAMSA.Though > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> I am also interested in astrology and likewise > > > > > > activities > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > want that > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> you all Respected and learned members of > SOHAMSA, > > > > > > accept > > > > > > > > me > > > > > > > > > as part of > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> the group.I will be very much obelidged for > that > > > > > > kind > > > > > > > > > acceptance. > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> May i request you all members to please kindly > > > > > > look in my > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> horoscope and advice me what to do or what > not to > > > > > > do. I am > > > > > > > > > in building > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> construction business now. what RATNA should I > > > > > > wear to get > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> blessings of benefic GRAHAS ? OR ANY remedies > i > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > adopt > > > > > > > > > to please > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> my benefic GRAHAS. > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> With Deep Respect, > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Deepak Modi > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ > > > > > _________ _ > > > > > > > > > > >>> Stay in tune with the latest styles! Check out > the > > > > > > happening > > > > > > > > > fashion > > > > > > > > > > >> trends > > > > > > > > > > >>> on 'Wardrobe watch'. Only on MSN Lifestyle > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://content. msn.co.in/ Lifestyle/ Moreonlifestyle/ > > > > > > LifeStyle_091006_ 0 > > > > > > > > <http://content. msn.co.in/ Lifestyle/ Moreonlifestyle/ > > > > > > LifeStyle_091006_ 0> > > > > > > > > > 551.htm > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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