Words of Rishis, Paramparas and Knowledge

[Guest guest]

Namaste friends,

 

Happy Deepavali/Diwali to all of you!

 

> Can you show me the verse of Parasara that explains the

> basis of chaturdasi dosa? Is the story of Chandra

> kidnapping Tara and betraying Guru mentioned in BPHS?

> .... Is it enough to learn sanskrit to derive the real

> meaning of the Maharishi's?

 

Parasara may have left out the philosophical basis, but he did teach various

objective calculations of hora shastra. There are ambiguities in a few places,

but things are quite clear in several places.

 

We can be true to Parasara atleast in the matter of calculations he clearly

defined. We can theorize or experiment in areas where he left ambiguity. But I

do not see why we should deviate from an unambiguous verse on calculations and

come up with a big hypothesis instead.

 

* * *

 

Some people may think that even unambiguously stated things somehow have some

deep meaning that cannot be deciphered through good knowledge of Sanskrit

language and grammar and an understanding of the writing style. However, this

belief is inconsistent with Indian tradition. It is the tradition in India for

people to study Sanskrit well, understand stylistic nuances, hone their

interpretation skills, interpret classics and engage in scholarly debates.

 

Not the entire text of Parasara is a " black box " to one who has studied Sanskrit

well. In fact, if that were to be the case, Parasara would not have created the

text!!

 

* * *

 

Some people may be tempted to believe that Parasara's text is a black box that

should not be interpreted by any scholar today and we should stick to the

interpretation of someone in the past, i.e. from some parampara. But that is

against the spirit of knowledge that has been behind the wealth of knowledge

that exists in India.

 

In the old days in India, even giants with impeccable pedigree (e.g. Adi

Sankaracharya) never won debates by saying " this knowledge is from parampara and

so it is correct " . They actually quoted rishis and debated on the interpretation

of rishis. The words of rishis were taken to be ultimate and it was considered

that those words could be interpreted by scholars and debated.

 

* * *

 

Parampara is for INTERPRETING RISHIS and passing on the interpretation. It is

not for overriding rishis. From time to time, errors do develop in parampara and

they do need to be corrected by going back to the words of rishis.

 

Whenever I found a discrepancy between a teaching of our paramapara and an

unambiguous teaching of Parasara on an objective matter such as a calculation, I

experimented and found Parasara to be correct always.

 

Apart from the current example of chara karaka determination, let me take the

case of drigdasa (on which you can download an article at

VedicAstrologer.org/articles/drik_am.zip). Parasara unambiguously said that

sthira dasa years should be used in drigdasa. But Pt Sanjay Rath taught chara

dasa years. Parasara said that the order of reckoning aspects is zodiacal for

fixed signs and odd dual signs and anti-zodiacal for movable signs and even dual

signs. But Pt Sanjay Rath taught that the order is zodiacal for odd-footed signs

and anti-zodiacal for even-footed signs.

 

In both the cases, the words of Parasara are crystal clear and I see no scope

whatsoever for multiple interpretations. Moreover, when I tried Parasara's

version, it worked nicely and made things much simpler and far more consistent.

 

* * *

 

I have no doubt in my mind that the time-tested method used in India for

millennia is STILL applicable today.

 

Rishis obtain knowledge through direct experience and capture it in

written/spoken form. Scholars from time to time interpret the words of rishis

and debate. Their interpretations are passed down in paramparas. But the problem

is that corruptions may occur from time to time. Some corruptions may be small

and some may be big.

 

If a new scholar finds a previous interpretation passed down in a parampara to

be inconsistent with a rishi's words, he/she corrects it. If necessary, there

may be a scholarly debate. Of course, just the words of rishis are taken as

pramaana (basis), and not the teachings of parampara.

 

This process of correction using the words of rishis as basis ensures that any

corruptions that occur in knowledge are detected and weeded out sooner or later.

This process is vital to the preservation of the knowledge of rishis in various

paramparas.

 

Because human beings have some weaknesses, some obstacles to this process come

up at times. However, Nature will find a way to make it work, eventually.

 

BTW, the article in question on chara karakas is at

VedicAstrologer.org/articles/c_karaka.pdf.

 

Krishnaarpanamastu,

Narasimha

 

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

Spirituality:

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Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

 

 

sohamsa , Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal wrote:

>

> Hare Rama Krsna ||

>

> Dear Narasimha,

>

> Can you show me the verse of Parasara that explains the basis of chaturdasi

dosa? Is the story of Chandra kidnapping Tara and betraying Guru mentioned in

BPHS? Perhaps it is, I must be honest with you I have not done justice to this

great work - yet. I know it is mentioned elsewhere. But point is, this and

many other vital Jyotish understanding is found in allied sorces of knowledge

which includes other scriptures and parampara.

>

> Is it enough to learn sanskrit to derive the real meaning of the Maharishi's?

Meaning cannot come from grammar alone. A literal translation is a face value

interpretation. A beggar may find a bag of money, but if what he sees is just

paper, and decides to start a fire with it to stay warm, imagine the loss.

>

> Sincerely,

> Michal

>

> ________________________________

> Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr

> Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937

> Cc: vedic astrology ;

Indian_Astrology_Group_Daily_Digest ; sohamsa

<sohamsa >

> Monday, October 27, 2008 3:06:30 PM

> Re: Char Karka

>

>

> 

> Namaste Sir,

>

> > Seven

> > (7 )CHAR KARKA SCHEME IS FOR MUNDANE

> CHARTS,

> > 5. 8 CHAR KARKA SCHEME IS FOR LIVING BEING

> .

>

> If you or anyone can show me the verse of Parasara

> that says the above, we can discuss your views further.

>

> When mentioning the two schemes, Parasara clearly

> said that the 8-karaka scheme is used when two planets are in the same degree.

> He never talked about " living beings " vs " mundane charts " . Instead he talked

> about matching the degrees of planets to decide 7 vs 8 karaka

> schemes.

>

> A clear guideline of Parasara has been ignored and

> a big hypothesis is made instead. Such a theory with a weak foundation

> fails to convince me.

>

> Best

> regards,

> Narasimha

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

> Do

> a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana

> Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

> Sri

> Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

>

> -

> Gopal Goel

> Narasimha Rao

> Cc: vedic astrology ; Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_

Digest@grou ps.com ; sohamsa

> Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:43 AM

> Char Karka

>

> Dear Friend,

> Why bring Pt. Sanjay Rath , place your views independently.

> I have again gone through the article of Rath ji and your article

> carefully.I got the impression , that you are try to advocate your

> views instead of trying to understand the real intent of BPH.

> I may like to bring following points to your kind attention:

> 1. Rath ji is your guru , never show disrespect to your guru.

> Such attitude will bring your downfall. Rishi Yajvalkya ,Jaimni

> sometimes taken different line of thinking , but with the permission

> and with due respect to his guru.I think you are in USA too long.

> that is why you do not like to stick these simple norms.

> 2. Parasara had refereed higher authorities in BPHS KIKE 'SEER

> GARG'

> 3. BPHS INTENDS THAT THERE ARE TWO DISTINCT

> SCHEMES OF CHAR KARKAS-7 AS WELL AS 8

> 4 In 7 char karka scheme Rahu is not considered .However , if two planets

> are same zodiac degree in their respective signs, then char Karka

replacement

> occurs and Rahu takes its place as sthir Karka of confusion and

deceit.Seven

> (7 )CHAR KARKA SCHEME IS FOR MUNDANE CHARTS, THAT IS WHY

> PUTRA kARKA IS ABSENT AND RAHU AS STHIR kARKA DOES NOT

> REPRESENT ANY LIVING PERSON BUT DECEIT ETC.

> 5. 8 CHAR KARKA SCHEME IS FOR LIVING BEING . BPHS

> CLEARLY STATES 8 kARKA IN SERIAL ORDER-AK,AMK,

> BK, MK, PITK,PUTK,GK AND DK.THERE IS ABSOLUTELY

> ON AMBIGUITY OR CONFUSION.

> 6. kindly TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE PURPORT AND REASON

> BEHIND REPLACEMENT OF CHAR KARKA WITH STHIR KARKA.

> THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT AND CRUCIAL TO UNDERSTAND THE SIGNIFICANCE ,AS TO WHY

CHAR KARKA ARE REPLACED BY STHIR

> KARKAS.IN FACT THIS CHAPTER OF BPHS DEALS IN ALL KINDS OF

> KARKAS ACCEPT NAISARGIKA KARKAS. THE SLOKAS IN THIS CHAPTER ARE LIKE SUTRA

AND LOT OF CO-RELATION IS REQUIRED TO DECIPHER

> THEM. CHAR KARKA INDICATE THE HELP AND SUSTENANCE PROVIDED

> BY OTHER LIVING BEING OR LACK OF IT DUE TO THE ACTIONS OF PAST BIRTHS.STHIR

KARKA INDICATE WHEN SUCH LIVING BEING WILL

> PUT TO GRIEF .

> 6. I urge , kindly read the article written by Rathji . It will show the

light.

> Regards,

> G.K.GOEL

> Ph: 09350311433

> Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR

> NEW DELHI-110 076

> INDIA