Guest guest Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Dear members and Gurus, Again a probably simple question. After listening to one of Vistiji's lectures, I got the impression (possibly wrong, I just cant spend as much time on astrology as I want to, so please excuse me if I wrongly absorb something) that by seeing the relationship of the AK to the other charakarakas in the Rasi chart, you see the real attitude towards whatever is signified by the charakaraka. I am confused as to what this " real attitude " means. For example, if a mother's AK and PK are in 2-12 relationship e.g. PK in 12th from AK, surely it doesnt mean that the mother's conscious attitude toward her children is of " giving up " ? Because that doesnt seem to be the case. Or does it mean that that is the Atma's attitude and since the Atma is deeper than the conscious mind, it might instead create situations in which the children are forced to be given up? So my real question is - how exactly, or at what level of experience, do you interpret charakarakas position relative to each other? If AK and AmK are together, how exactly does it create Rajayoga? To make the CK principle clearer, could you contrast it with, for example, 10L in the 1st house, and also with 10L with the Moon. Thank you very much, Sundeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Om Gurave Namah Namaste dear Sundeep, (And hello again I think that in case when AK and PK 2/12 is not really 100% attitude issue of " giving up " . What AK represents for native, same is PK for native's children. So, soul level and important experiences regarding purification and spirituality are very different between native and children (I think it refers to all children) which can bring lack of understanding. Of course, AK can also describe huge portion of someone's character. Attitude and life direction is more matter of arudhas, so in that case it seems that we should observe relation between AL and A5. These are just thoughts. (I could be wrong too. I did not listen to that lecture) Regards, Maja Hari Om Tat Sat sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " <vedicastrostudent wrote: > > Dear members and Gurus, > > Again a probably simple question. After listening to one of > Vistiji's lectures, I got the impression (possibly wrong, I just > cant spend as much time on astrology as I want to, so please excuse > me if I wrongly absorb something) that by seeing the relationship of > the AK to the other charakarakas in the Rasi chart, you see the real > attitude towards whatever is signified by the charakaraka. I am > confused as to what this " real attitude " means. For example, if a > mother's AK and PK are in 2-12 relationship e.g. PK in 12th from AK, > surely it doesnt mean that the mother's conscious attitude toward > her children is of " giving up " ? Because that doesnt seem to be the > case. Or does it mean that that is the Atma's attitude and since the > Atma is deeper than the conscious mind, it might instead create > situations in which the children are forced to be given up? So my > real question is - how exactly, or at what level of experience, do > you interpret charakarakas position relative to each other? If AK > and AmK are together, how exactly does it create Rajayoga? To make > the CK principle clearer, could you contrast it with, for example, > 10L in the 1st house, and also with 10L with the Moon. > > Thank you very much, > > Sundeep > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Dear Maja, I still dont understand.. So you agree that AK and PK in 2/12 will always manifest as lack of understanding between native and children? Then what is the difference between AK and the mind, if every " problem " of the AK is clearly visible in a " conscious " mental view/attitude? Hope you see my problem. Sundeep sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > (And hello again > > I think that in case when AK and PK 2/12 is not really 100% attitude > issue of " giving up " . What AK represents for native, same is PK for > native's children. So, soul level and important experiences > regarding purification and spirituality are very different between > native and children (I think it refers to all children) which can > bring lack of understanding. Of course, AK can also describe huge > portion of someone's character. > > Attitude and life direction is more matter of arudhas, so in that > case it seems that we should observe relation between AL and A5. > > These are just thoughts. (I could be wrong too. I did not listen to > that lecture) > > Regards, > Maja > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > Dear members and Gurus, > > > > Again a probably simple question. After listening to one of > > Vistiji's lectures, I got the impression (possibly wrong, I just > > cant spend as much time on astrology as I want to, so please > excuse > > me if I wrongly absorb something) that by seeing the relationship > of > > the AK to the other charakarakas in the Rasi chart, you see the > real > > attitude towards whatever is signified by the charakaraka. I am > > confused as to what this " real attitude " means. For example, if a > > mother's AK and PK are in 2-12 relationship e.g. PK in 12th from > AK, > > surely it doesnt mean that the mother's conscious attitude toward > > her children is of " giving up " ? Because that doesnt seem to be the > > case. Or does it mean that that is the Atma's attitude and since > the > > Atma is deeper than the conscious mind, it might instead create > > situations in which the children are forced to be given up? So my > > real question is - how exactly, or at what level of experience, do > > you interpret charakarakas position relative to each other? If AK > > and AmK are together, how exactly does it create Rajayoga? To make > > the CK principle clearer, could you contrast it with, for example, > > 10L in the 1st house, and also with 10L with the Moon. > > > > Thank you very much, > > > > Sundeep > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Om Gurave Namah Namaste dear Sundeep, " AK and PK in 2/12 will > always manifest as lack of understanding between native and > children " Kind of, I think. At least in the area of what one's soul deeply strives for. Let me try to put it this way: pick 20 charts of people you know well. Check their AK and compare their general behavior to it. There should be some strong resemblance. (Just for the record, my AK is Budh... somehow I can recognize in Budh karakatva) Yes, I have heard that Atma is not really surface, but rather something like " unconscious " part of us. But don't you think that human behavior should be result of conscious as well as unconscious? Regards, Maja Hari Om Tat Sat sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " <vedicastrostudent wrote: > > Dear Maja, > I still dont understand.. So you agree that AK and PK in 2/12 will > always manifest as lack of understanding between native and > children? Then what is the difference between AK and the mind, if > every " problem " of the AK is clearly visible in a " conscious " mental > view/attitude? Hope you see my problem. > > Sundeep > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro@> > wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > (And hello again > > > > I think that in case when AK and PK 2/12 is not really 100% > attitude > > issue of " giving up " . What AK represents for native, same is PK > for > > native's children. So, soul level and important experiences > > regarding purification and spirituality are very different between > > native and children (I think it refers to all children) which can > > bring lack of understanding. Of course, AK can also describe huge > > portion of someone's character. > > > > Attitude and life direction is more matter of arudhas, so in that > > case it seems that we should observe relation between AL and A5. > > > > These are just thoughts. (I could be wrong too. I did not listen > to > > that lecture) > > > > Regards, > > Maja > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear members and Gurus, > > > > > > Again a probably simple question. After listening to one of > > > Vistiji's lectures, I got the impression (possibly wrong, I just > > > cant spend as much time on astrology as I want to, so please > > excuse > > > me if I wrongly absorb something) that by seeing the > relationship > > of > > > the AK to the other charakarakas in the Rasi chart, you see the > > real > > > attitude towards whatever is signified by the charakaraka. I am > > > confused as to what this " real attitude " means. For example, if > a > > > mother's AK and PK are in 2-12 relationship e.g. PK in 12th from > > AK, > > > surely it doesnt mean that the mother's conscious attitude > toward > > > her children is of " giving up " ? Because that doesnt seem to be > the > > > case. Or does it mean that that is the Atma's attitude and since > > the > > > Atma is deeper than the conscious mind, it might instead create > > > situations in which the children are forced to be given up? So > my > > > real question is - how exactly, or at what level of experience, > do > > > you interpret charakarakas position relative to each other? If > AK > > > and AmK are together, how exactly does it create Rajayoga? To > make > > > the CK principle clearer, could you contrast it with, for > example, > > > 10L in the 1st house, and also with 10L with the Moon. > > > > > > Thank you very much, > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Dear Maja, I fully believe and agree with the existence of the unconscious. But do you agree that the unconscious attitudes play out in the *environment* i.e. the person is unconsciously drawn into situations which play out the unconscious desires/attitudes? In exactly that way, I feel AK/PK 2/12 does not really mean that the person is *consciously* giving up children, but is forced into situations in which the children need to be given up. The mind may be unwilling, but situations may force the outcome. I mean AK is the king, right? If the mind does not listen to the AK, then AK will force a situation in which the unwilling mind has no option. If the AK and mind were always together and not in conflict, then AKs would always be in kona to the moon and/or lagna, no? Sundeep sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > " AK and PK in 2/12 will > > always manifest as lack of understanding between native and > > children " Kind of, I think. At least in the area of what one's > soul deeply strives for. > > Let me try to put it this way: pick 20 charts of people you know > well. Check their AK and compare their general behavior to it. There > should be some strong resemblance. (Just for the record, my AK is > Budh... somehow I can recognize in Budh karakatva) > > Yes, I have heard that Atma is not really surface, but rather > something like " unconscious " part of us. But don't you think that > human behavior should be result of conscious as well as unconscious? > > > Regards, > Maja > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > Dear Maja, > > I still dont understand.. So you agree that AK and PK in 2/12 > will > > always manifest as lack of understanding between native and > > children? Then what is the difference between AK and the mind, if > > every " problem " of the AK is clearly visible in a " conscious " > mental > > view/attitude? Hope you see my problem. > > > > Sundeep > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > (And hello again > > > > > > I think that in case when AK and PK 2/12 is not really 100% > > attitude > > > issue of " giving up " . What AK represents for native, same is PK > > for > > > native's children. So, soul level and important experiences > > > regarding purification and spirituality are very different > between > > > native and children (I think it refers to all children) which > can > > > bring lack of understanding. Of course, AK can also describe > huge > > > portion of someone's character. > > > > > > Attitude and life direction is more matter of arudhas, so in > that > > > case it seems that we should observe relation between AL and A5. > > > > > > These are just thoughts. (I could be wrong too. I did not listen > > to > > > that lecture) > > > > > > Regards, > > > Maja > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear members and Gurus, > > > > > > > > Again a probably simple question. After listening to one of > > > > Vistiji's lectures, I got the impression (possibly wrong, I > just > > > > cant spend as much time on astrology as I want to, so please > > > excuse > > > > me if I wrongly absorb something) that by seeing the > > relationship > > > of > > > > the AK to the other charakarakas in the Rasi chart, you see > the > > > real > > > > attitude towards whatever is signified by the charakaraka. I > am > > > > confused as to what this " real attitude " means. For example, > if > > a > > > > mother's AK and PK are in 2-12 relationship e.g. PK in 12th > from > > > AK, > > > > surely it doesnt mean that the mother's conscious attitude > > toward > > > > her children is of " giving up " ? Because that doesnt seem to be > > the > > > > case. Or does it mean that that is the Atma's attitude and > since > > > the > > > > Atma is deeper than the conscious mind, it might instead > create > > > > situations in which the children are forced to be given up? So > > my > > > > real question is - how exactly, or at what level of > experience, > > do > > > > you interpret charakarakas position relative to each other? If > > AK > > > > and AmK are together, how exactly does it create Rajayoga? To > > make > > > > the CK principle clearer, could you contrast it with, for > > example, > > > > 10L in the 1st house, and also with 10L with the Moon. > > > > > > > > Thank you very much, > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Dear Rafalji, Your replies are always pithy (full of information), it takes a while for me to fully absorb them! But please see my post to Maja - I mean AK and conscious mind arent the same thing are they? AK is the deeper spark of the soul that in most cases the mind (manas) isnt even aware of. And the AK might actually want to take the person in a different direction than where the mind/lagna wants to take them, no? But how will it do that - it can only do so by creating a circumstance in which the mind is forced to listen, even if it doesnt want to. I feel this strongly because my own AK is in the 6th (before CK replacements), and I strongly felt that during my (ongoing) AK dasa, lots of events happened which I consciously didnt like or ask for, but they happened anyway and forced me to change my outlook, harshly and repeatedly. The AK didnt sweetly and gently plant " the right desires " and remove the " wrong desires " (in my mind) so that life was continuously (mentally) smooth. This is why I suspect that AK is deeper and in case of less enlightened/more rajasik-tamasik souls, almost totally separate from the mind. The mind is not even aware of AK's desires. But AK remains the king, and it expresses it's strength by forcing situations in which the mind helplessly has to listen. Do I understand correctly? Thank you very much, Sundeep sohamsa , Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote: > > *kleem namah narasimhaaya* > Dear Sundeep, Namaskar > > On Ck level 1) maranakarakasthana and 2) pachakadi sambandha are most > important. It refers to motivation and soul level sambandha which is > connected to our inspirations, desires. AK with AmK is rajasambandha > yoga per Parasara Maharishi - this gives karma yogis which are fully > dedicated to mission (similar with charakaraka replacement). Of course > AK/PK in 2/12 doesnt bode well for relation with children but there are > more points to check. > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz / SJC Teacher > www: http://rohinaa.com / email: rafal > > Maja Strbac pisze: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > (And hello again > > > > I think that in case when AK and PK 2/12 is not really 100% attitude > > issue of " giving up " . What AK represents for native, same is PK for > > native's children. So, soul level and important experiences > > regarding purification and spirituality are very different between > > native and children (I think it refers to all children) which can > > bring lack of understanding. Of course, AK can also describe huge > > portion of someone's character. > > > > Attitude and life direction is more matter of arudhas, so in that > > case it seems that we should observe relation between AL and A5. > > > > These are just thoughts. (I could be wrong too. I did not listen to > > that lecture) > > > > Regards, > > Maja > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa% 40>, > > " vedicastrostudent " > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear members and Gurus, > > > > > > Again a probably simple question. After listening to one of > > > Vistiji's lectures, I got the impression (possibly wrong, I just > > > cant spend as much time on astrology as I want to, so please > > excuse > > > me if I wrongly absorb something) that by seeing the relationship > > of > > > the AK to the other charakarakas in the Rasi chart, you see the > > real > > > attitude towards whatever is signified by the charakaraka. I am > > > confused as to what this " real attitude " means. For example, if a > > > mother's AK and PK are in 2-12 relationship e.g. PK in 12th from > > AK, > > > surely it doesnt mean that the mother's conscious attitude toward > > > her children is of " giving up " ? Because that doesnt seem to be the > > > case. Or does it mean that that is the Atma's attitude and since > > the > > > Atma is deeper than the conscious mind, it might instead create > > > situations in which the children are forced to be given up? So my > > > real question is - how exactly, or at what level of experience, do > > > you interpret charakarakas position relative to each other? If AK > > > and AmK are together, how exactly does it create Rajayoga? To make > > > the CK principle clearer, could you contrast it with, for example, > > > 10L in the 1st house, and also with 10L with the Moon. > > > > > > Thank you very much, > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Om Gurave Namah Namaste dear Sundeep, I was actually trying to say that AK/PK 2/12 relation will not necessarily bring giving up on children at all (apart from rest of the chart). I don't think that AK drags one anywhere physically like that. Giving up on children is more case of AL/A5 relation I think. Or even relation between paka lagna and A5. I don't know, my PiK and MK are in 2/12 relation, but my parents are still very much together. Don't predict me that I shall be a bad mother because I have AK/PK in 2/12 relation " If the mind does not listen to the AK, then AK will force a > situation in which the unwilling mind has no option. " Yes. I understand this as force in situation in surrounding, not really physically dragging far away. Situation that bring " suffer on soul level " … " If the AK and > mind were always together and not in conflict, then AKs would always > be in kona to the moon and/or lagna, no? " I AGREE 100%. Behavior & character = (I believe is) conscious + unconscious (there are directions in psychology which mention interaction with environment as factor, there are those who leave this out and so on, and so on… let's leave it to them), that is why I said " lack of understanding " . Checked 20 charts? Regards, Maja Hari Om tat Sat sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " <vedicastrostudent wrote: > > Dear Maja, > I fully believe and agree with the existence of the unconscious. But > do you agree that the unconscious attitudes play out in the > *environment* i.e. the person is unconsciously drawn into situations > which play out the unconscious desires/attitudes? In exactly that > way, I feel AK/PK 2/12 does not really mean that the person is > *consciously* giving up children, but is forced into situations in > which the children need to be given up. The mind may be unwilling, > but situations may force the outcome. I mean AK is the king, right? > If the mind does not listen to the AK, then AK will force a > situation in which the unwilling mind has no option. If the AK and > mind were always together and not in conflict, then AKs would always > be in kona to the moon and/or lagna, no? > > Sundeep > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro@> > wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > " AK and PK in 2/12 will > > > always manifest as lack of understanding between native and > > > children " Kind of, I think. At least in the area of what one's > > soul deeply strives for. > > > > Let me try to put it this way: pick 20 charts of people you know > > well. Check their AK and compare their general behavior to it. > There > > should be some strong resemblance. (Just for the record, my AK is > > Budh... somehow I can recognize in Budh karakatva) > > > > Yes, I have heard that Atma is not really surface, but rather > > something like " unconscious " part of us. But don't you think that > > human behavior should be result of conscious as well as > unconscious? > > > > > > Regards, > > Maja > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > I still dont understand.. So you agree that AK and PK in 2/12 > > will > > > always manifest as lack of understanding between native and > > > children? Then what is the difference between AK and the mind, > if > > > every " problem " of the AK is clearly visible in a " conscious " > > mental > > > view/attitude? Hope you see my problem. > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > (And hello again > > > > > > > > I think that in case when AK and PK 2/12 is not really 100% > > > attitude > > > > issue of " giving up " . What AK represents for native, same is > PK > > > for > > > > native's children. So, soul level and important experiences > > > > regarding purification and spirituality are very different > > between > > > > native and children (I think it refers to all children) which > > can > > > > bring lack of understanding. Of course, AK can also describe > > huge > > > > portion of someone's character. > > > > > > > > Attitude and life direction is more matter of arudhas, so in > > that > > > > case it seems that we should observe relation between AL and > A5. > > > > > > > > These are just thoughts. (I could be wrong too. I did not > listen > > > to > > > > that lecture) > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear members and Gurus, > > > > > > > > > > Again a probably simple question. After listening to one of > > > > > Vistiji's lectures, I got the impression (possibly wrong, I > > just > > > > > cant spend as much time on astrology as I want to, so please > > > > excuse > > > > > me if I wrongly absorb something) that by seeing the > > > relationship > > > > of > > > > > the AK to the other charakarakas in the Rasi chart, you see > > the > > > > real > > > > > attitude towards whatever is signified by the charakaraka. I > > am > > > > > confused as to what this " real attitude " means. For example, > > if > > > a > > > > > mother's AK and PK are in 2-12 relationship e.g. PK in 12th > > from > > > > AK, > > > > > surely it doesnt mean that the mother's conscious attitude > > > toward > > > > > her children is of " giving up " ? Because that doesnt seem to > be > > > the > > > > > case. Or does it mean that that is the Atma's attitude and > > since > > > > the > > > > > Atma is deeper than the conscious mind, it might instead > > create > > > > > situations in which the children are forced to be given up? > So > > > my > > > > > real question is - how exactly, or at what level of > > experience, > > > do > > > > > you interpret charakarakas position relative to each other? > If > > > AK > > > > > and AmK are together, how exactly does it create Rajayoga? > To > > > make > > > > > the CK principle clearer, could you contrast it with, for > > > example, > > > > > 10L in the 1st house, and also with 10L with the Moon. > > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much, > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Dear Maja, Some more questions inlined: sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > I was actually trying to say that AK/PK 2/12 relation will not > necessarily bring giving up on children at all (apart from rest of > the chart). I don't think that AK drags one anywhere physically like > that. Giving up on children is more case of AL/A5 relation I think. > Or even relation between paka lagna and A5. I don't know, my PiK and > MK are in 2/12 relation, but my parents are still very much > together. Don't predict me that I shall be a bad mother because I > have AK/PK in 2/12 relation I'm not predicting anything. I'm simply trying to fill in the blanks by building an understanding from the ground up. If I take AK as Atma level desire for self and PK as Atma level desire for children, then AK-PK in 2/12 means there is a relationship of " giving up " somewhere (i.e. somewhere AK and PK desires are not in harmony as they would be in a 4/10 relationship, for example). This I get simply by the meaning of 2/12, nothing else, right? So how does this manifest in outward life, please tell me. I dont have any prejudgements that are etched in stone at all - I'm willing to evaluate any possibility, and discard wrong ideas provided a better explanation is given. > > " If the mind does not listen to the AK, then AK will force a > > situation in which the unwilling mind has no option. " Yes. I > understand this as force in situation in surrounding, not really > physically dragging far away. Situation that bring " suffer on soul > level " … I dont understand " physically dragging far away " . I didnt mean that at all. I'm simply trying to understand how the " situation that brings suffering on soul level " comes about. I was using a bit of Jungian psychology there - your unconscious has a way (projection) of forcing you into situations that your conscious mind despises/rejects. > > " If the AK and > > mind were always together and not in conflict, then AKs would > always > > be in kona to the moon and/or lagna, no? " I AGREE 100%. > Yes, but if you agree, then there is a contradiction, right? Please follow my reasoning here and point out the discrepancy: Since AK and moon/lagna are quite clearly NOT always in kona, then for example when AK is in 6/8 to moon/lagna, it means the desire that the AK represents is NOT deliciously palatable to the mind/lagna, no? So, how does AK desire present itself in the mind - since AK and mind are in 6/8, either that desire is NOT known (8) to the mind, or it is actually an enemy (6) or in other words something the mind dislikes? In such cases, how exactly does the AK's desire get it's way, please tell me. If the king(AK) doesnt get his way, who does? > Behavior & character = (I believe is) conscious + unconscious (there > are directions in psychology which mention interaction with > environment as factor, there are those who leave this out and so on, > and so on… let's leave it to them), that is why I said " lack of > understanding " . Checked 20 charts? No I didnt check 20 charts and here is the reason. I dont dispute/have-a-preference for any result at all, I simply want the consistent reasoning that leads to it. I am not an empiricist by nature i.e. one who likes the results more than the theory (e.g. KN Rao's astrology), I am more of a practical theoretician (one who likes to develop the theory first and then corroborate against data/real life experience). Thank you for your detailed replies, Sundeep > > Regards, > Maja > > Hari Om tat Sat > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > Dear Maja, > > I fully believe and agree with the existence of the unconscious. > But > > do you agree that the unconscious attitudes play out in the > > *environment* i.e. the person is unconsciously drawn into > situations > > which play out the unconscious desires/attitudes? In exactly that > > way, I feel AK/PK 2/12 does not really mean that the person is > > *consciously* giving up children, but is forced into situations in > > which the children need to be given up. The mind may be unwilling, > > but situations may force the outcome. I mean AK is the king, > right? > > If the mind does not listen to the AK, then AK will force a > > situation in which the unwilling mind has no option. If the AK and > > mind were always together and not in conflict, then AKs would > always > > be in kona to the moon and/or lagna, no? > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > > > " AK and PK in 2/12 will > > > > always manifest as lack of understanding between native and > > > > children " Kind of, I think. At least in the area of what one's > > > soul deeply strives for. > > > > > > Let me try to put it this way: pick 20 charts of people you know > > > well. Check their AK and compare their general behavior to it. > > There > > > should be some strong resemblance. (Just for the record, my AK > is > > > Budh... somehow I can recognize in Budh karakatva) > > > > > > Yes, I have heard that Atma is not really surface, but rather > > > something like " unconscious " part of us. But don't you think > that > > > human behavior should be result of conscious as well as > > unconscious? > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Maja > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > > I still dont understand.. So you agree that AK and PK in > 2/12 > > > will > > > > always manifest as lack of understanding between native and > > > > children? Then what is the difference between AK and the mind, > > if > > > > every " problem " of the AK is clearly visible in a " conscious " > > > mental > > > > view/attitude? Hope you see my problem. > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " > <majastrbacastro@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > > (And hello again > > > > > > > > > > I think that in case when AK and PK 2/12 is not really 100% > > > > attitude > > > > > issue of " giving up " . What AK represents for native, same is > > PK > > > > for > > > > > native's children. So, soul level and important experiences > > > > > regarding purification and spirituality are very different > > > between > > > > > native and children (I think it refers to all children) > which > > > can > > > > > bring lack of understanding. Of course, AK can also describe > > > huge > > > > > portion of someone's character. > > > > > > > > > > Attitude and life direction is more matter of arudhas, so in > > > that > > > > > case it seems that we should observe relation between AL and > > A5. > > > > > > > > > > These are just thoughts. (I could be wrong too. I did not > > listen > > > > to > > > > > that lecture) > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear members and Gurus, > > > > > > > > > > > > Again a probably simple question. After listening to one > of > > > > > > Vistiji's lectures, I got the impression (possibly wrong, > I > > > just > > > > > > cant spend as much time on astrology as I want to, so > please > > > > > excuse > > > > > > me if I wrongly absorb something) that by seeing the > > > > relationship > > > > > of > > > > > > the AK to the other charakarakas in the Rasi chart, you > see > > > the > > > > > real > > > > > > attitude towards whatever is signified by the charakaraka. > I > > > am > > > > > > confused as to what this " real attitude " means. For > example, > > > if > > > > a > > > > > > mother's AK and PK are in 2-12 relationship e.g. PK in > 12th > > > from > > > > > AK, > > > > > > surely it doesnt mean that the mother's conscious attitude > > > > toward > > > > > > her children is of " giving up " ? Because that doesnt seem > to > > be > > > > the > > > > > > case. Or does it mean that that is the Atma's attitude and > > > since > > > > > the > > > > > > Atma is deeper than the conscious mind, it might instead > > > create > > > > > > situations in which the children are forced to be given > up? > > So > > > > my > > > > > > real question is - how exactly, or at what level of > > > experience, > > > > do > > > > > > you interpret charakarakas position relative to each > other? > > If > > > > AK > > > > > > and AmK are together, how exactly does it create Rajayoga? > > To > > > > make > > > > > > the CK principle clearer, could you contrast it with, for > > > > example, > > > > > > 10L in the 1st house, and also with 10L with the Moon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Dear RAfalji, Again, I will have to take some time to absorb everything you say, but regarding the sentence " AKs desires are known to mind " , I have a doubt. Sanjayji said somewhere something like: " AK's goal is to guide you to the temple of God " . If this is the AK's desire, and AK's desire is known to the mind, then either everyone should be truly spiritual, or perhaps when you say " known " you mean " known but not necessarily liked " ? I know for a fact that everyone is NOT truly spiritual - I wasnt until age 35. Thank you, Sundeep sohamsa , Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote: > > *kleem namah narasimhaaya* > Dear Sundeep, Namaskar > > CK's are more to desire, Arudhas more to circumstance. It becomes more > clear when you will learn about yogas having argala on L (take), AL > (form), AK (desire). It relates also to three types of shakti. So we > should see where the A5/A9 (depending on oddity of Lagna) lord is > placed from Atmakaraka. We should also see 5L/9L, PK and Ju from AK > (focusing on mks/pachakadi) and then AK,LL from PK (also same 2 > sambandhas). Lagna yogas shows circumstance/action, AL shows how/if you > will benefit from this, AK shows how you deal with that or what does > this make to you (make you bounded - 12, or make you want it - 4,2,11 etc). > > AK desires are known to mind, therefore when AK is in tenth one treats > training/skills/work very seriously, almost like religion. > > > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz / SJC Teacher > www: http://rohinaa.com / email: rafal > > > > vedicastrostudent pisze: > > > > Dear Rafalji, > > Your replies are always pithy (full of information), it takes a > > while for me to fully absorb them! But please see my post to Maja - > > I mean AK and conscious mind arent the same thing are they? AK is > > the deeper spark of the soul that in most cases the mind (manas) > > isnt even aware of. And the AK might actually want to take the > > person in a different direction than where the mind/lagna wants to > > take them, no? But how will it do that - it can only do so by > > creating a circumstance in which the mind is forced to listen, even > > if it doesnt want to. I feel this strongly because my own AK is in > > the 6th (before CK replacements), and I strongly felt that during my > > (ongoing) AK dasa, lots of events happened which I consciously didnt > > like or ask for, but they happened anyway and forced me to change my > > outlook, harshly and repeatedly. The AK didnt sweetly and gently > > plant " the right desires " and remove the " wrong desires " (in my > > mind) so that life was continuously (mentally) smooth. This is why I > > suspect that AK is deeper and in case of less enlightened/more > > rajasik-tamasik souls, almost totally separate from the mind. The > > mind is not even aware of AK's desires. But AK remains the king, and > > it expresses it's strength by forcing situations in which the mind > > helplessly has to listen. > > > > Do I understand correctly? > > > > Thank you very much, > > > > Sundeep > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa% 40>, > > Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@> > > wrote: > > > > > > *kleem namah narasimhaaya* > > > Dear Sundeep, Namaskar > > > > > > On Ck level 1) maranakarakasthana and 2) pachakadi sambandha are > > most > > > important. It refers to motivation and soul level sambandha which > > is > > > connected to our inspirations, desires. AK with AmK is > > rajasambandha > > > yoga per Parasara Maharishi - this gives karma yogis which are > > fully > > > dedicated to mission (similar with charakaraka replacement). Of > > course > > > AK/PK in 2/12 doesnt bode well for relation with children but > > there are > > > more points to check. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Rafal Gendarz / SJC Teacher > > > www: http://rohinaa.com <http://rohinaa.com> / email: rafal@ > > > > > > Maja Strbac pisze: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > (And hello again > > > > > > > > I think that in case when AK and PK 2/12 is not really 100% > > attitude > > > > issue of " giving up " . What AK represents for native, same is PK > > for > > > > native's children. So, soul level and important experiences > > > > regarding purification and spirituality are very different > > between > > > > native and children (I think it refers to all children) which can > > > > bring lack of understanding. Of course, AK can also describe huge > > > > portion of someone's character. > > > > > > > > Attitude and life direction is more matter of arudhas, so in that > > > > case it seems that we should observe relation between AL and A5. > > > > > > > > These are just thoughts. (I could be wrong too. I did not listen > > to > > > > that lecture) > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa% 40> > > <sohamsa% > > 40>, > > > > " vedicastrostudent " > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear members and Gurus, > > > > > > > > > > Again a probably simple question. After listening to one of > > > > > Vistiji's lectures, I got the impression (possibly wrong, I > > just > > > > > cant spend as much time on astrology as I want to, so please > > > > excuse > > > > > me if I wrongly absorb something) that by seeing the > > relationship > > > > of > > > > > the AK to the other charakarakas in the Rasi chart, you see the > > > > real > > > > > attitude towards whatever is signified by the charakaraka. I am > > > > > confused as to what this " real attitude " means. For example, > > if a > > > > > mother's AK and PK are in 2-12 relationship e.g. PK in 12th > > from > > > > AK, > > > > > surely it doesnt mean that the mother's conscious attitude > > toward > > > > > her children is of " giving up " ? Because that doesnt seem to be > > the > > > > > case. Or does it mean that that is the Atma's attitude and > > since > > > > the > > > > > Atma is deeper than the conscious mind, it might instead create > > > > > situations in which the children are forced to be given up? So > > my > > > > > real question is - how exactly, or at what level of > > experience, do > > > > > you interpret charakarakas position relative to each other? If > > AK > > > > > and AmK are together, how exactly does it create Rajayoga? To > > make > > > > > the CK principle clearer, could you contrast it with, for > > example, > > > > > 10L in the 1st house, and also with 10L with the Moon. > > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much, > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Om Gurave Namah Dear Sundeep, Namaste Let me tell you one thing, your questions are excellent! Don't ever hesitate to ask whatever there is on your mind! How about this: Read Rafal's email from this morning. I simply have nothing else to add. I just don't. Don't separate mind/AK so much. I was just defending opinion (with what I had available at the moment) that AK/PK relation 2/12, apart from rest of the chart, doesn't mean " circumstances that lead to unavoidable physical separation of native and child " by default (I understood you this way). It was intuitive opinion. As I checked in Rafal's email I was not far from truth. Though I am not able to give you such detailed arguments. Sorry, my instinctive reaction on everything learned, even if it is just one sentence, is to check it out in 10-20 charts of people I know well. I like to confirm it. I simply work that way. I like to combine theory and practical. As I understand your last paragraph that doesn't make me empiricist or practical theoretician. (I got more than enough plain, simple theory throughout my education. Now I am in decontamination phase with Jyotish) Jung, psychology... I don't go farther then basics. I got overdosed with psychology while I was learning Western astrology, where everything you can not confirm with astrology, oh, well, you can always use psychology as excuse. (I have a kind of similar opinion about Psychology, Modernism and Western Astrology) Since we learned that AK is not just unconscious level, we can skip that part. Let's continue tomorrow (I got your email when I was about to go out). Whatever I have left out I'll check it later or tomorrow. (I like this conversation very much, and we could both use some time to additionally " decode " Rafal's email) I'll be brave now to ask you one question: Is your AK maybe Sani? Regards, Maja Hari Om Tat Sat sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " <vedicastrostudent wrote: > > Dear Maja, > Some more questions inlined: > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro@> > wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > I was actually trying to say that AK/PK 2/12 relation will not > > necessarily bring giving up on children at all (apart from rest of > > the chart). I don't think that AK drags one anywhere physically > like > > that. Giving up on children is more case of AL/A5 relation I > think. > > Or even relation between paka lagna and A5. I don't know, my PiK > and > > MK are in 2/12 relation, but my parents are still very much > > together. Don't predict me that I shall be a bad mother because I > > have AK/PK in 2/12 relation > > I'm not predicting anything. I'm simply trying to fill in the blanks > by building an understanding from the ground up. If I take AK as > Atma level desire for self and PK as Atma level desire for children, > then AK-PK in 2/12 means there is a relationship of " giving up " > somewhere (i.e. somewhere AK and PK desires are not in harmony as > they would be in a 4/10 relationship, for example). This I get > simply by the meaning of 2/12, nothing else, right? So how does this > manifest in outward life, please tell me. I dont have any > prejudgements that are etched in stone at all - I'm willing to > evaluate any possibility, and discard wrong ideas provided a better > explanation is given. > > > > > > " If the mind does not listen to the AK, then AK will force a > > > situation in which the unwilling mind has no option. " Yes. I > > understand this as force in situation in surrounding, not really > > physically dragging far away. Situation that bring " suffer on soul > > level " … > > I dont understand " physically dragging far away " . I didnt mean that > at all. I'm simply trying to understand how the " situation that > brings suffering on soul level " comes about. I was using a bit of > Jungian psychology there - your unconscious has a way (projection) > of forcing you into situations that your conscious mind > despises/rejects. > > > > > > " If the AK and > > > mind were always together and not in conflict, then AKs would > > always > > > be in kona to the moon and/or lagna, no? " I AGREE 100%. > > > > Yes, but if you agree, then there is a contradiction, right? Please > follow my reasoning here and point out the discrepancy: Since AK and > moon/lagna are quite clearly NOT always in kona, then for example > when AK is in 6/8 to moon/lagna, it means the desire that the AK > represents is NOT deliciously palatable to the mind/lagna, no? So, > how does AK desire present itself in the mind - since AK and mind > are in 6/8, either that desire is NOT known (8) to the mind, or it > is actually an enemy (6) or in other words something the mind > dislikes? In such cases, how exactly does the AK's desire get it's > way, please tell me. If the king(AK) doesnt get his way, who does? > > > > Behavior & character = (I believe is) conscious + unconscious > (there > > are directions in psychology which mention interaction with > > environment as factor, there are those who leave this out and so > on, > > and so on… let's leave it to them), that is why I said " lack of > > understanding " . Checked 20 charts? > > > No I didnt check 20 charts and here is the reason. I dont > dispute/have-a-preference for any result at all, I simply want the > consistent reasoning that leads to it. I am not an empiricist by > nature i.e. one who likes the results more than the theory (e.g. KN > Rao's astrology), I am more of a practical theoretician (one who > likes to develop the theory first and then corroborate against > data/real life experience). > > Thank you for your detailed replies, > > Sundeep > > > > Regards, > > Maja > > > > Hari Om tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > I fully believe and agree with the existence of the unconscious. > > But > > > do you agree that the unconscious attitudes play out in the > > > *environment* i.e. the person is unconsciously drawn into > > situations > > > which play out the unconscious desires/attitudes? In exactly > that > > > way, I feel AK/PK 2/12 does not really mean that the person is > > > *consciously* giving up children, but is forced into situations > in > > > which the children need to be given up. The mind may be > unwilling, > > > but situations may force the outcome. I mean AK is the king, > > right? > > > If the mind does not listen to the AK, then AK will force a > > > situation in which the unwilling mind has no option. If the AK > and > > > mind were always together and not in conflict, then AKs would > > always > > > be in kona to the moon and/or lagna, no? > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > > > > > " AK and PK in 2/12 will > > > > > always manifest as lack of understanding between native and > > > > > children " Kind of, I think. At least in the area of what > one's > > > > soul deeply strives for. > > > > > > > > Let me try to put it this way: pick 20 charts of people you > know > > > > well. Check their AK and compare their general behavior to it. > > > There > > > > should be some strong resemblance. (Just for the record, my AK > > is > > > > Budh... somehow I can recognize in Budh karakatva) > > > > > > > > Yes, I have heard that Atma is not really surface, but rather > > > > something like " unconscious " part of us. But don't you think > > that > > > > human behavior should be result of conscious as well as > > > unconscious? > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > > > I still dont understand.. So you agree that AK and PK in > > 2/12 > > > > will > > > > > always manifest as lack of understanding between native and > > > > > children? Then what is the difference between AK and the > mind, > > > if > > > > > every " problem " of the AK is clearly visible in > a " conscious " > > > > mental > > > > > view/attitude? Hope you see my problem. > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " > > <majastrbacastro@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > > > (And hello again > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that in case when AK and PK 2/12 is not really > 100% > > > > > attitude > > > > > > issue of " giving up " . What AK represents for native, same > is > > > PK > > > > > for > > > > > > native's children. So, soul level and important > experiences > > > > > > regarding purification and spirituality are very different > > > > between > > > > > > native and children (I think it refers to all children) > > which > > > > can > > > > > > bring lack of understanding. Of course, AK can also > describe > > > > huge > > > > > > portion of someone's character. > > > > > > > > > > > > Attitude and life direction is more matter of arudhas, so > in > > > > that > > > > > > case it seems that we should observe relation between AL > and > > > A5. > > > > > > > > > > > > These are just thoughts. (I could be wrong too. I did not > > > listen > > > > > to > > > > > > that lecture) > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear members and Gurus, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again a probably simple question. After listening to > one > > of > > > > > > > Vistiji's lectures, I got the impression (possibly > wrong, > > I > > > > just > > > > > > > cant spend as much time on astrology as I want to, so > > please > > > > > > excuse > > > > > > > me if I wrongly absorb something) that by seeing the > > > > > relationship > > > > > > of > > > > > > > the AK to the other charakarakas in the Rasi chart, you > > see > > > > the > > > > > > real > > > > > > > attitude towards whatever is signified by the > charakaraka. > > I > > > > am > > > > > > > confused as to what this " real attitude " means. For > > example, > > > > if > > > > > a > > > > > > > mother's AK and PK are in 2-12 relationship e.g. PK in > > 12th > > > > from > > > > > > AK, > > > > > > > surely it doesnt mean that the mother's conscious > attitude > > > > > toward > > > > > > > her children is of " giving up " ? Because that doesnt seem > > to > > > be > > > > > the > > > > > > > case. Or does it mean that that is the Atma's attitude > and > > > > since > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Atma is deeper than the conscious mind, it might instead > > > > create > > > > > > > situations in which the children are forced to be given > > up? > > > So > > > > > my > > > > > > > real question is - how exactly, or at what level of > > > > experience, > > > > > do > > > > > > > you interpret charakarakas position relative to each > > other? > > > If > > > > > AK > > > > > > > and AmK are together, how exactly does it create > Rajayoga? > > > To > > > > > make > > > > > > > the CK principle clearer, could you contrast it with, > for > > > > > example, > > > > > > > 10L in the 1st house, and also with 10L with the Moon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 Dear Maja, You're pretty good. Although my AK is not Sani (natal AK is actually Venus, but I have 2 CK replacements at the AK level, I think it is Mercury at this point in my life), Sani is my Lagna Lord (Aq Lagna) and Sani is also conjunct my Moon, so Sani influence is strong. Sundeep sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Dear Sundeep, > Namaste > > Let me tell you one thing, your questions are excellent! Don't ever > hesitate to ask whatever there is on your mind! > > How about this: Read Rafal's email from this morning. I simply have > nothing else to add. I just don't. > > Don't separate mind/AK so much. I was just defending opinion (with > what I had available at the moment) that AK/PK relation 2/12, apart > from rest of the chart, doesn't mean " circumstances that lead to > unavoidable physical separation of native and child " by default (I > understood you this way). It was intuitive opinion. As I checked in > Rafal's email I was not far from truth. Though I am not able to give > you such detailed arguments. > > Sorry, my instinctive reaction on everything learned, even if it is > just one sentence, is to check it out in 10-20 charts of people I > know well. I like to confirm it. I simply work that way. I like to > combine theory and practical. As I understand your last paragraph > that doesn't make me empiricist or practical theoretician. (I got > more than enough plain, simple theory throughout my education. Now I > am in decontamination phase with Jyotish) > > Jung, psychology... I don't go farther then basics. I got overdosed > with psychology while I was learning Western astrology, where > everything you can not confirm with astrology, oh, well, you can > always use psychology as excuse. (I have a kind of similar opinion > about Psychology, Modernism and Western Astrology) > > Since we learned that AK is not just unconscious level, we can skip > that part. Let's continue tomorrow (I got your email when I was > about to go out). Whatever I have left out I'll check it later or > tomorrow. (I like this conversation very much, and we could both use > some time to additionally " decode " Rafal's email) > > I'll be brave now to ask you one question: Is your AK maybe Sani? > > > Regards, > Maja > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > Dear Maja, > > Some more questions inlined: > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > > > I was actually trying to say that AK/PK 2/12 relation will not > > > necessarily bring giving up on children at all (apart from rest > of > > > the chart). I don't think that AK drags one anywhere physically > > like > > > that. Giving up on children is more case of AL/A5 relation I > > think. > > > Or even relation between paka lagna and A5. I don't know, my PiK > > and > > > MK are in 2/12 relation, but my parents are still very much > > > together. Don't predict me that I shall be a bad mother because > I > > > have AK/PK in 2/12 relation > > > > I'm not predicting anything. I'm simply trying to fill in the > blanks > > by building an understanding from the ground up. If I take AK as > > Atma level desire for self and PK as Atma level desire for > children, > > then AK-PK in 2/12 means there is a relationship of " giving up " > > somewhere (i.e. somewhere AK and PK desires are not in harmony as > > they would be in a 4/10 relationship, for example). This I get > > simply by the meaning of 2/12, nothing else, right? So how does > this > > manifest in outward life, please tell me. I dont have any > > prejudgements that are etched in stone at all - I'm willing to > > evaluate any possibility, and discard wrong ideas provided a > better > > explanation is given. > > > > > > > > > > " If the mind does not listen to the AK, then AK will force a > > > > situation in which the unwilling mind has no option. " Yes. I > > > understand this as force in situation in surrounding, not really > > > physically dragging far away. Situation that bring " suffer on > soul > > > level " … > > > > I dont understand " physically dragging far away " . I didnt mean > that > > at all. I'm simply trying to understand how the " situation that > > brings suffering on soul level " comes about. I was using a bit of > > Jungian psychology there - your unconscious has a way (projection) > > of forcing you into situations that your conscious mind > > despises/rejects. > > > > > > > > > > " If the AK and > > > > mind were always together and not in conflict, then AKs would > > > always > > > > be in kona to the moon and/or lagna, no? " I AGREE 100%. > > > > > > > Yes, but if you agree, then there is a contradiction, right? > Please > > follow my reasoning here and point out the discrepancy: Since AK > and > > moon/lagna are quite clearly NOT always in kona, then for example > > when AK is in 6/8 to moon/lagna, it means the desire that the AK > > represents is NOT deliciously palatable to the mind/lagna, no? So, > > how does AK desire present itself in the mind - since AK and mind > > are in 6/8, either that desire is NOT known (8) to the mind, or it > > is actually an enemy (6) or in other words something the mind > > dislikes? In such cases, how exactly does the AK's desire get it's > > way, please tell me. If the king(AK) doesnt get his way, who does? > > > > > > > Behavior & character = (I believe is) conscious + unconscious > > (there > > > are directions in psychology which mention interaction with > > > environment as factor, there are those who leave this out and so > > on, > > > and so on… let's leave it to them), that is why I said " lack of > > > understanding " . Checked 20 charts? > > > > > > No I didnt check 20 charts and here is the reason. I dont > > dispute/have-a-preference for any result at all, I simply want the > > consistent reasoning that leads to it. I am not an empiricist by > > nature i.e. one who likes the results more than the theory (e.g. > KN > > Rao's astrology), I am more of a practical theoretician (one who > > likes to develop the theory first and then corroborate against > > data/real life experience). > > > > Thank you for your detailed replies, > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > Regards, > > > Maja > > > > > > Hari Om tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > > I fully believe and agree with the existence of the > unconscious. > > > But > > > > do you agree that the unconscious attitudes play out in the > > > > *environment* i.e. the person is unconsciously drawn into > > > situations > > > > which play out the unconscious desires/attitudes? In exactly > > that > > > > way, I feel AK/PK 2/12 does not really mean that the person is > > > > *consciously* giving up children, but is forced into > situations > > in > > > > which the children need to be given up. The mind may be > > unwilling, > > > > but situations may force the outcome. I mean AK is the king, > > > right? > > > > If the mind does not listen to the AK, then AK will force a > > > > situation in which the unwilling mind has no option. If the AK > > and > > > > mind were always together and not in conflict, then AKs would > > > always > > > > be in kona to the moon and/or lagna, no? > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " > <majastrbacastro@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > > > > > > > " AK and PK in 2/12 will > > > > > > always manifest as lack of understanding between native > and > > > > > > children " Kind of, I think. At least in the area of what > > one's > > > > > soul deeply strives for. > > > > > > > > > > Let me try to put it this way: pick 20 charts of people you > > know > > > > > well. Check their AK and compare their general behavior to > it. > > > > There > > > > > should be some strong resemblance. (Just for the record, my > AK > > > is > > > > > Budh... somehow I can recognize in Budh karakatva) > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have heard that Atma is not really surface, but > rather > > > > > something like " unconscious " part of us. But don't you think > > > that > > > > > human behavior should be result of conscious as well as > > > > unconscious? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > > > > I still dont understand.. So you agree that AK and PK in > > > 2/12 > > > > > will > > > > > > always manifest as lack of understanding between native > and > > > > > > children? Then what is the difference between AK and the > > mind, > > > > if > > > > > > every " problem " of the AK is clearly visible in > > a " conscious " > > > > > mental > > > > > > view/attitude? Hope you see my problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " > > > <majastrbacastro@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > > > > (And hello again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that in case when AK and PK 2/12 is not really > > 100% > > > > > > attitude > > > > > > > issue of " giving up " . What AK represents for native, > same > > is > > > > PK > > > > > > for > > > > > > > native's children. So, soul level and important > > experiences > > > > > > > regarding purification and spirituality are very > different > > > > > between > > > > > > > native and children (I think it refers to all children) > > > which > > > > > can > > > > > > > bring lack of understanding. Of course, AK can also > > describe > > > > > huge > > > > > > > portion of someone's character. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Attitude and life direction is more matter of arudhas, > so > > in > > > > > that > > > > > > > case it seems that we should observe relation between AL > > and > > > > A5. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These are just thoughts. (I could be wrong too. I did > not > > > > listen > > > > > > to > > > > > > > that lecture) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear members and Gurus, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again a probably simple question. After listening to > > one > > > of > > > > > > > > Vistiji's lectures, I got the impression (possibly > > wrong, > > > I > > > > > just > > > > > > > > cant spend as much time on astrology as I want to, so > > > please > > > > > > > excuse > > > > > > > > me if I wrongly absorb something) that by seeing the > > > > > > relationship > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > the AK to the other charakarakas in the Rasi chart, > you > > > see > > > > > the > > > > > > > real > > > > > > > > attitude towards whatever is signified by the > > charakaraka. > > > I > > > > > am > > > > > > > > confused as to what this " real attitude " means. For > > > example, > > > > > if > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > mother's AK and PK are in 2-12 relationship e.g. PK in > > > 12th > > > > > from > > > > > > > AK, > > > > > > > > surely it doesnt mean that the mother's conscious > > attitude > > > > > > toward > > > > > > > > her children is of " giving up " ? Because that doesnt > seem > > > to > > > > be > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > case. Or does it mean that that is the Atma's attitude > > and > > > > > since > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > Atma is deeper than the conscious mind, it might > instead > > > > > create > > > > > > > > situations in which the children are forced to be > given > > > up? > > > > So > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > real question is - how exactly, or at what level of > > > > > experience, > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > you interpret charakarakas position relative to each > > > other? > > > > If > > > > > > AK > > > > > > > > and AmK are together, how exactly does it create > > Rajayoga? > > > > To > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > the CK principle clearer, could you contrast it with, > > for > > > > > > example, > > > > > > > > 10L in the 1st house, and also with 10L with the Moon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 Dear Rafalji, Thank you for the information. I must say it makes a lot of sense. But 2 questions still: 1) So how do we find out from Navamsa if AK is a spiritual AK versus a non-spiritual one? 2) Nevertheless, I am still confused that AK is known to mind. Mind (manas) according to Vivekacudamani is manomayakosa, surely AK is deeper than that. Does Moon represent this same manas (doesnt Parasara say so?)? Then Moon and AK in 6/8 would mean that AK desires are inimical(6) to the mind, or unknown(8) to the mind. Where am I going wrong here? Thank you, Sundeep sohamsa , Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote: > > *kleem namah narasimhaaya* > Dear Sundeep , Namaskar > > Its pure or default AK when it drives one to God through Ishta deva, but > normally AK is filtered through the previous samskaras. Their layers are > seen by examinin position of AK in Navamsa. If these layers enables one > to uplift the soul then one is spiritual otherwise one is under rajasic > and tamasic traits which makes the AK acts differently. Therefore when > AK is lording Lagna it can make one like demon or saint. No need to > doubt, its from Parampara. > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz / SJC Teacher > www: http://rohinaa.com / email: rafal > > > > > > vedicastrostudent pisze: > > > > Dear RAfalji, > > Again, I will have to take some time to absorb everything you say, > > but regarding the sentence " AKs desires are known to mind " , I have a > > doubt. Sanjayji said somewhere something like: " AK's goal is to > > guide you to the temple of God " . If this is the AK's desire, and > > AK's desire is known to the mind, then either everyone should be > > truly spiritual, or perhaps when you say " known " you mean " known but > > not necessarily liked " ? I know for a fact that everyone is NOT truly > > spiritual - I wasnt until age 35. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Sundeep > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa% 40>, > > Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@> > > wrote: > > > > > > *kleem namah narasimhaaya* > > > Dear Sundeep, Namaskar > > > > > > CK's are more to desire, Arudhas more to circumstance. It becomes > > more > > > clear when you will learn about yogas having argala on L (take), > > AL > > > (form), AK (desire). It relates also to three types of shakti. So > > we > > > should see where the A5/A9 (depending on oddity of Lagna) lord is > > > placed from Atmakaraka. We should also see 5L/9L, PK and Ju from > > AK > > > (focusing on mks/pachakadi) and then AK,LL from PK (also same 2 > > > sambandhas). Lagna yogas shows circumstance/action, AL shows > > how/if you > > > will benefit from this, AK shows how you deal with that or what > > does > > > this make to you (make you bounded - 12, or make you want it - > > 4,2,11 etc). > > > > > > AK desires are known to mind, therefore when AK is in tenth one > > treats > > > training/skills/work very seriously, almost like religion. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Rafal Gendarz / SJC Teacher > > > www: http://rohinaa.com <http://rohinaa.com> / email: rafal@ > > > > > > > > > > > > vedicastrostudent pisze: > > > > > > > > Dear Rafalji, > > > > Your replies are always pithy (full of information), it takes a > > > > while for me to fully absorb them! But please see my post to > > Maja - > > > > I mean AK and conscious mind arent the same thing are they? AK is > > > > the deeper spark of the soul that in most cases the mind (manas) > > > > isnt even aware of. And the AK might actually want to take the > > > > person in a different direction than where the mind/lagna wants > > to > > > > take them, no? But how will it do that - it can only do so by > > > > creating a circumstance in which the mind is forced to listen, > > even > > > > if it doesnt want to. I feel this strongly because my own AK is > > in > > > > the 6th (before CK replacements), and I strongly felt that > > during my > > > > (ongoing) AK dasa, lots of events happened which I consciously > > didnt > > > > like or ask for, but they happened anyway and forced me to > > change my > > > > outlook, harshly and repeatedly. The AK didnt sweetly and gently > > > > plant " the right desires " and remove the " wrong desires " (in my > > > > mind) so that life was continuously (mentally) smooth. This is > > why I > > > > suspect that AK is deeper and in case of less enlightened/more > > > > rajasik-tamasik souls, almost totally separate from the mind. The > > > > mind is not even aware of AK's desires. But AK remains the king, > > and > > > > it expresses it's strength by forcing situations in which the > > mind > > > > helplessly has to listen. > > > > > > > > Do I understand correctly? > > > > > > > > Thank you very much, > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa% 40> > > <sohamsa% > > 40>, > > > > Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > *kleem namah narasimhaaya* > > > > > Dear Sundeep, Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > On Ck level 1) maranakarakasthana and 2) pachakadi sambandha > > are > > > > most > > > > > important. It refers to motivation and soul level sambandha > > which > > > > is > > > > > connected to our inspirations, desires. AK with AmK is > > > > rajasambandha > > > > > yoga per Parasara Maharishi - this gives karma yogis which are > > > > fully > > > > > dedicated to mission (similar with charakaraka replacement). Of > > > > course > > > > > AK/PK in 2/12 doesnt bode well for relation with children but > > > > there are > > > > > more points to check. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Rafal Gendarz / SJC Teacher > > > > > www: http://rohinaa.com <http://rohinaa.com> <http://rohinaa.com > > <http://rohinaa.com>> / email: rafal@ > > > > > > > > > > Maja Strbac pisze: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > > > (And hello again > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that in case when AK and PK 2/12 is not really 100% > > > > attitude > > > > > > issue of " giving up " . What AK represents for native, same is > > PK > > > > for > > > > > > native's children. So, soul level and important experiences > > > > > > regarding purification and spirituality are very different > > > > between > > > > > > native and children (I think it refers to all children) > > which can > > > > > > bring lack of understanding. Of course, AK can also describe > > huge > > > > > > portion of someone's character. > > > > > > > > > > > > Attitude and life direction is more matter of arudhas, so in > > that > > > > > > case it seems that we should observe relation between AL and > > A5. > > > > > > > > > > > > These are just thoughts. (I could be wrong too. I did not > > listen > > > > to > > > > > > that lecture) > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa > > <sohamsa%40> <sohamsa% > > 40> > > > > <sohamsa% > > > > 40>, > > > > > > " vedicastrostudent " > > > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear members and Gurus, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again a probably simple question. After listening to one of > > > > > > > Vistiji's lectures, I got the impression (possibly wrong, I > > > > just > > > > > > > cant spend as much time on astrology as I want to, so > > please > > > > > > excuse > > > > > > > me if I wrongly absorb something) that by seeing the > > > > relationship > > > > > > of > > > > > > > the AK to the other charakarakas in the Rasi chart, you > > see the > > > > > > real > > > > > > > attitude towards whatever is signified by the charakaraka. > > I am > > > > > > > confused as to what this " real attitude " means. For > > example, > > > > if a > > > > > > > mother's AK and PK are in 2-12 relationship e.g. PK in 12th > > > > from > > > > > > AK, > > > > > > > surely it doesnt mean that the mother's conscious attitude > > > > toward > > > > > > > her children is of " giving up " ? Because that doesnt seem > > to be > > > > the > > > > > > > case. Or does it mean that that is the Atma's attitude and > > > > since > > > > > > the > > > > > > > Atma is deeper than the conscious mind, it might instead > > create > > > > > > > situations in which the children are forced to be given > > up? So > > > > my > > > > > > > real question is - how exactly, or at what level of > > > > experience, do > > > > > > > you interpret charakarakas position relative to each > > other? If > > > > AK > > > > > > > and AmK are together, how exactly does it create Rajayoga? > > To > > > > make > > > > > > > the CK principle clearer, could you contrast it with, for > > > > example, > > > > > > > 10L in the 1st house, and also with 10L with the Moon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 Om Gurave Namah Dear Sundeep, Namaste You just reminded me of my best friend so much. In her case Sani is lagna lord in 9th and AK. A little more influence than in your case. At one point you sounded just like her :) Regards, Maja Hari Om Tat Sat sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " <vedicastrostudent wrote: > > Dear Maja, > You're pretty good. Although my AK is not Sani (natal AK is > actually Venus, but I have 2 CK replacements at the AK level, I > think it is Mercury at this point in my life), Sani is my Lagna Lord > (Aq Lagna) and Sani is also conjunct my Moon, so Sani influence is > strong. > > Sundeep > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro@> > wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Dear Sundeep, > > Namaste > > > > Let me tell you one thing, your questions are excellent! Don't > ever > > hesitate to ask whatever there is on your mind! > > > > How about this: Read Rafal's email from this morning. I simply > have > > nothing else to add. I just don't. > > > > Don't separate mind/AK so much. I was just defending opinion (with > > what I had available at the moment) that AK/PK relation 2/12, > apart > > from rest of the chart, doesn't mean " circumstances that lead to > > unavoidable physical separation of native and child " by default (I > > understood you this way). It was intuitive opinion. As I checked > in > > Rafal's email I was not far from truth. Though I am not able to > give > > you such detailed arguments. > > > > Sorry, my instinctive reaction on everything learned, even if it > is > > just one sentence, is to check it out in 10-20 charts of people I > > know well. I like to confirm it. I simply work that way. I like to > > combine theory and practical. As I understand your last paragraph > > that doesn't make me empiricist or practical theoretician. (I got > > more than enough plain, simple theory throughout my education. Now > I > > am in decontamination phase with Jyotish) > > > > Jung, psychology... I don't go farther then basics. I got > overdosed > > with psychology while I was learning Western astrology, where > > everything you can not confirm with astrology, oh, well, you can > > always use psychology as excuse. (I have a kind of similar opinion > > about Psychology, Modernism and Western Astrology) > > > > Since we learned that AK is not just unconscious level, we can > skip > > that part. Let's continue tomorrow (I got your email when I was > > about to go out). Whatever I have left out I'll check it later or > > tomorrow. (I like this conversation very much, and we could both > use > > some time to additionally " decode " Rafal's email) > > > > I'll be brave now to ask you one question: Is your AK maybe Sani? > > > > > > Regards, > > Maja > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > Some more questions inlined: > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > > > > > I was actually trying to say that AK/PK 2/12 relation will not > > > > necessarily bring giving up on children at all (apart from > rest > > of > > > > the chart). I don't think that AK drags one anywhere > physically > > > like > > > > that. Giving up on children is more case of AL/A5 relation I > > > think. > > > > Or even relation between paka lagna and A5. I don't know, my > PiK > > > and > > > > MK are in 2/12 relation, but my parents are still very much > > > > together. Don't predict me that I shall be a bad mother > because > > I > > > > have AK/PK in 2/12 relation > > > > > > I'm not predicting anything. I'm simply trying to fill in the > > blanks > > > by building an understanding from the ground up. If I take AK as > > > Atma level desire for self and PK as Atma level desire for > > children, > > > then AK-PK in 2/12 means there is a relationship of " giving up " > > > somewhere (i.e. somewhere AK and PK desires are not in harmony > as > > > they would be in a 4/10 relationship, for example). This I get > > > simply by the meaning of 2/12, nothing else, right? So how does > > this > > > manifest in outward life, please tell me. I dont have any > > > prejudgements that are etched in stone at all - I'm willing to > > > evaluate any possibility, and discard wrong ideas provided a > > better > > > explanation is given. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " If the mind does not listen to the AK, then AK will force a > > > > > situation in which the unwilling mind has no option. " Yes. I > > > > understand this as force in situation in surrounding, not > really > > > > physically dragging far away. Situation that bring " suffer on > > soul > > > > level " … > > > > > > I dont understand " physically dragging far away " . I didnt mean > > that > > > at all. I'm simply trying to understand how the " situation that > > > brings suffering on soul level " comes about. I was using a bit > of > > > Jungian psychology there - your unconscious has a way > (projection) > > > of forcing you into situations that your conscious mind > > > despises/rejects. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " If the AK and > > > > > mind were always together and not in conflict, then AKs > would > > > > always > > > > > be in kona to the moon and/or lagna, no? " I AGREE 100%. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, but if you agree, then there is a contradiction, right? > > Please > > > follow my reasoning here and point out the discrepancy: Since AK > > and > > > moon/lagna are quite clearly NOT always in kona, then for > example > > > when AK is in 6/8 to moon/lagna, it means the desire that the > AK > > > represents is NOT deliciously palatable to the mind/lagna, no? > So, > > > how does AK desire present itself in the mind - since AK and > mind > > > are in 6/8, either that desire is NOT known (8) to the mind, or > it > > > is actually an enemy (6) or in other words something the mind > > > dislikes? In such cases, how exactly does the AK's desire get > it's > > > way, please tell me. If the king(AK) doesnt get his way, who > does? > > > > > > > > > > Behavior & character = (I believe is) conscious + unconscious > > > (there > > > > are directions in psychology which mention interaction with > > > > environment as factor, there are those who leave this out and > so > > > on, > > > > and so on… let's leave it to them), that is why I said " lack > of > > > > understanding " . Checked 20 charts? > > > > > > > > > No I didnt check 20 charts and here is the reason. I dont > > > dispute/have-a-preference for any result at all, I simply want > the > > > consistent reasoning that leads to it. I am not an empiricist by > > > nature i.e. one who likes the results more than the theory (e.g. > > KN > > > Rao's astrology), I am more of a practical theoretician (one who > > > likes to develop the theory first and then corroborate against > > > data/real life experience). > > > > > > Thank you for your detailed replies, > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > Hari Om tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > > > I fully believe and agree with the existence of the > > unconscious. > > > > But > > > > > do you agree that the unconscious attitudes play out in the > > > > > *environment* i.e. the person is unconsciously drawn into > > > > situations > > > > > which play out the unconscious desires/attitudes? In exactly > > > that > > > > > way, I feel AK/PK 2/12 does not really mean that the person > is > > > > > *consciously* giving up children, but is forced into > > situations > > > in > > > > > which the children need to be given up. The mind may be > > > unwilling, > > > > > but situations may force the outcome. I mean AK is the king, > > > > right? > > > > > If the mind does not listen to the AK, then AK will force a > > > > > situation in which the unwilling mind has no option. If the > AK > > > and > > > > > mind were always together and not in conflict, then AKs > would > > > > always > > > > > be in kona to the moon and/or lagna, no? > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " > > <majastrbacastro@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > > > > > > > > > " AK and PK in 2/12 will > > > > > > > always manifest as lack of understanding between native > > and > > > > > > > children " Kind of, I think. At least in the area of what > > > one's > > > > > > soul deeply strives for. > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me try to put it this way: pick 20 charts of people > you > > > know > > > > > > well. Check their AK and compare their general behavior to > > it. > > > > > There > > > > > > should be some strong resemblance. (Just for the record, > my > > AK > > > > is > > > > > > Budh... somehow I can recognize in Budh karakatva) > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have heard that Atma is not really surface, but > > rather > > > > > > something like " unconscious " part of us. But don't you > think > > > > that > > > > > > human behavior should be result of conscious as well as > > > > > unconscious? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > > > > > I still dont understand.. So you agree that AK and PK > in > > > > 2/12 > > > > > > will > > > > > > > always manifest as lack of understanding between native > > and > > > > > > > children? Then what is the difference between AK and the > > > mind, > > > > > if > > > > > > > every " problem " of the AK is clearly visible in > > > a " conscious " > > > > > > mental > > > > > > > view/attitude? Hope you see my problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " > > > > <majastrbacastro@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > > > > > (And hello again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that in case when AK and PK 2/12 is not really > > > 100% > > > > > > > attitude > > > > > > > > issue of " giving up " . What AK represents for native, > > same > > > is > > > > > PK > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > native's children. So, soul level and important > > > experiences > > > > > > > > regarding purification and spirituality are very > > different > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > native and children (I think it refers to all > children) > > > > which > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > bring lack of understanding. Of course, AK can also > > > describe > > > > > > huge > > > > > > > > portion of someone's character. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Attitude and life direction is more matter of arudhas, > > so > > > in > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > case it seems that we should observe relation between > AL > > > and > > > > > A5. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These are just thoughts. (I could be wrong too. I did > > not > > > > > listen > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > that lecture) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear members and Gurus, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again a probably simple question. After listening > to > > > one > > > > of > > > > > > > > > Vistiji's lectures, I got the impression (possibly > > > wrong, > > > > I > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > cant spend as much time on astrology as I want to, > so > > > > please > > > > > > > > excuse > > > > > > > > > me if I wrongly absorb something) that by seeing the > > > > > > > relationship > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > the AK to the other charakarakas in the Rasi chart, > > you > > > > see > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > real > > > > > > > > > attitude towards whatever is signified by the > > > charakaraka. > > > > I > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > confused as to what this " real attitude " means. For > > > > example, > > > > > > if > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > mother's AK and PK are in 2-12 relationship e.g. PK > in > > > > 12th > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > AK, > > > > > > > > > surely it doesnt mean that the mother's conscious > > > attitude > > > > > > > toward > > > > > > > > > her children is of " giving up " ? Because that doesnt > > seem > > > > to > > > > > be > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > case. Or does it mean that that is the Atma's > attitude > > > and > > > > > > since > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > Atma is deeper than the conscious mind, it might > > instead > > > > > > create > > > > > > > > > situations in which the children are forced to be > > given > > > > up? > > > > > So > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > real question is - how exactly, or at what level of > > > > > > experience, > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > you interpret charakarakas position relative to each > > > > other? > > > > > If > > > > > > > AK > > > > > > > > > and AmK are together, how exactly does it create > > > Rajayoga? > > > > > To > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > the CK principle clearer, could you contrast it > with, > > > for > > > > > > > example, > > > > > > > > > 10L in the 1st house, and also with 10L with the > Moon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 Dear Rafalji, Many thanks for this truly comprehensive reply! I will need to read this several times over and examine the charts in the next few days and weeks. Thank you, Sundeep sohamsa , Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote: > > *kleem namah narasimhaaya* > Dear Sundeep , Namaskar > > Depends. If PK is in 12 from AK then children/students are strongly > connected to one feeling of freedom, whilst position in second shows > that they sustain the inspiration and desire of the native (atma iccha > shakti - argala). If PK in 12H is benefic then its good and if some > planet connects these two then there can be strong bond to associate > oneself with those areas of life. Kendra/kona vs dushtana also shows > something here - its the relation and way of approaching various areas, > therefore rajasambandha rules gives by Maharishi Parasara. But for the > ignore/reject we should use a) mks and b) pachakadi sambandhas. So if I > will give you simplified answer that 2/12 is bad then you will give me > ten charts when that rule doesnt work - so I try to make it holistic by > differentiate between Ck (eight petals of anahata chakra), AL (moon as > karaka, has similarity to Karakaamsa - Parasara 31.29), Lordship > (rashmesh), Karaka (anubhava), Nakshatra (sustanence), Varga (detailed > and independent) etc levels. Every approach which omits that type of > approaching the chart will lead to wrong predictions. So AK (king of > chart - Parasara 34.9) bhava shows where you are picky, kendra to it (by > naisargika) shows ahamkarana and attachment - this we cure by Mahavidya > worship. Trikona to it can motivate one or make completely depressed / > crazy (see example 2). 3 from AK shows preferred death (again desire) > whilst in karakaamsa shows for which things we can strife to death (as > it deals with ideals of soul). Panaphara to Ak shows middle, whilst > Apoklima old age (so 12 shows oldage). Arudhas yuti shows vital focus, > whilst yuti karaakamsa shows group we belong to and our interests > (Parasara chapter 34) which can materialize depending on navamsa lagna. > We have three : naisargika (atma), sthira (jiva) and chara (for this > birth) atmakaraka. For this relation (2/12) charakaraka replacement > should be seen as well as nature of the planet. As the Surya as AK will > hit the twelfth bhava more due to MKS (see example 3). > > September 18, 1958 > Time: 18:10:18 > Time Zone: 2:00:00 (East of GMT) > Place: 16 E 39' 00 " , 50 N 27' 00 " > > For example in this chart there is no spiritual bond between spouse and > native (2/12 with DK) and therefore when native went ahead spiritually > the bond was over, but because Guru with Lagnesh is in 2H from UL he > feel morally responsible to stay with that person by all means. > > Example 2 > > JAC > > Natal Chart > > June 24, 1983 > Time: 18:54:24 > Time Zone: 2:00:00 (East of GMT) > Place: 19 E 03' 10 " , 50 N 17' 10 " > > Using Satabdika dasa. Person is in Shani-shani-mangal which made him > really depressed. Analyzing Shani we see its placement in 5 from AK, 10 > from AL (pravraja) and 12H from Lagna (which aspects 12h from Karaka > Lagna) which shows lack of freedom and opportunities which made him > totally absent-minded. Current 07/08 was really bad as Sudarshana > progression of Surya comes to eight bhava (invisible house) where he has > 1) low point in Chandra-Bhinna AV and 2) its the place of AK in > randhrabhava. Tithi pravesha has bandhanayoga. > > > Example 3 > > This person had already 2 second relationships. Now she has baby with > the third partner, all they were quite spiritual as she. > > October 15, 1979 > Time: 22:15:00 > Time Zone: 2:00:00 (East of GMT) > Place: 23 E 09' 00 " , 53 N 08' 00 " > > 1) First and Second Upapada has fallen due to weak Mangal. The third > upapada was the same person as it is lorded by same planet and aspected > by rasi drsti. > 2) The third (father of baby) serious partner is the 4UL (dhanus). Lord > is with Mo/Ra/Sa - person is totally depressed - 4L in D9 is budha > neecha. Ninth from UL is Ra+Ju which shows sudden childbirth (Guru- Shani > per Utpanna Vimshottari - ninth lord[lady] and Guru[karaka] in ninth > from UL. Guru here also shows that she is (quite independent - see 10L > from Rasi Lg in D10 and Lagnesh of D10 in ninth whilst 2/7 are in > parivartana in d10) teacher of English (see Ju in AL, d9 lagna and > lording 1/10L in D10). > > Coming to the Ck's - analyze 12H from AK. Children (Ju - > karaka/Sa-lord), Relations (Chandra-Ck,Gu-lord), Career (Shani- amk, > Guru-lord) were all quite bad which make the chart seriously damaged by > the rejections of atma and taking spiritual path (Ke in AL in fifth from > Lagnesh). > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz / SJC Teacher > www: http://rohinaa.com / email: rafal > > > vedicastrostudent pisze: > > > > Dear Rafalji, > > Thank you for all this information. Again, it is going to take me a > > while to absorb this one. But going back to the original question: So > > if AK and PK are in 2-12, then what exactly does it mean? Everytime I > > tried to explain it, you showed me that that explanation was > > attributed to actually something else. So this time I'm simply asking > > you point blank what AK-PK 2-12 means (i.e. AK in 2 to PK and PK in 12 > > to AK). > > > > Thank you, > > > > Sundeep > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.