Guest guest Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 Om Gurave Namah Dear Sundeep, Namaste I did some copy/paste; I hope that it is not too messy so you can follow: " If I take AK as Atma level desire for self and PK as Atma level desire for children, then AK-PK in 2/12 means there is a relationship of " giving up " somewhere (i.e. somewhere AK and PK desires are not in harmony as they would be in a 4/10 relationship, for example). This I get simply by the meaning of 2/12, nothing else, right? " Yes, there is " giving up " somewhere (just with huge quotation marks, not abounding), there are differences between native and child simply by meaning 2/12 and it seems to me that no other conclusion can be derived from this position now when I read complete thread. What do you think? " I don't have any prejudgments that are etched in stone at all - I'm willing to evaluate any possibility, and discard wrong ideas provided a better explanation is given. " That is the spirit. Where were you and why aren't you here more often? " Don't predict me that I shall be a bad mother because I have AK/PK in 2/12 relation I'm not predicting anything. " For God's sake, this was a joke, look, there is smiley at the end (have I mentioned what is my AK I'm simply trying to fill in the blanks by building an understanding from the ground up. " I should look up on you a little. " I'm simply trying to understand how the " situation that brings suffering on soul level " comes about. " For this answer I would stick to observing a whole chart. That is the only way to get it. This is already concerning specifically what kind of events, situations. It truly depends on complete chart. " If the AK and mind were always together and not in conflict, then AKs would always be in kona to the moon and/or lagna, no? " I AGREE 100%. Yes, but if you agree, then there is a contradiction, right " What contradiction? (Okay, I am reading following) " Since AK and moon/lagna are quite clearly NOT always in kona, then for example when AK is in 6/8 to moon/lagna, it means the desire that the AK represents is NOT deliciously palatable to the mind/lagna, no? So, how does AK desire present itself in the mind - since AK and mind are in 6/8, either that desire is NOT known (8) to the mind, or it is actually an enemy (6) or in other words something the mind dislikes? In such cases, how exactly does the AK's desire get it's way, please tell me. If the king(AK) doesnt get his way, who does? " I believe that AK always gets its way. Mind can simply like it or not. I think we have a small problem here with categories. I'll need your help because it seems to me that you might have better idea what the following is. (This was translated on English from Sanskrit, then I found it translated on Serbian and now i am " converting " it again on English, so this can be a... Showtime. Fabulous for misunderstandings. Hold your breath.) Five levels of consciousness: Physical consciousness Mental consciousness Sub consciousness (it is pretty clear what part of mind this is) Super consciousness (part of mind that refers to connection with our antecessors) Supra consciousness (joining of Manas and Atma... whatever) This is not Jung (or he accepted this?) or psychology. You have more chances to be familiar with these categories then me I think. First two are conscious level (I have no other word for this, sorry, I hope that you will be able to understand why I am forced to repeat it) and last three are unconscious level. Are you familiar with this? As I know so far Chandra is both Mind and Mentality. So I believe that when you are using Atma/Mind relation 6/8, you are trying to point that desires of Atma can be recognized as inimical to Mentality or..? Regards, Maja Hari Om Tat Sat sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Dear Sundeep, > Namaste > > You just reminded me of my best friend so much. In her case Sani is > lagna lord in 9th and AK. A little more influence than in your case. > At one point you sounded just like her :) > > Regards, > Maja > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > Dear Maja, > > You're pretty good. Although my AK is not Sani (natal AK is > > actually Venus, but I have 2 CK replacements at the AK level, I > > think it is Mercury at this point in my life), Sani is my Lagna > Lord > > (Aq Lagna) and Sani is also conjunct my Moon, so Sani influence is > > strong. > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Dear Sundeep, > > > Namaste > > > > > > Let me tell you one thing, your questions are excellent! Don't > > ever > > > hesitate to ask whatever there is on your mind! > > > > > > How about this: Read Rafal's email from this morning. I simply > > have > > > nothing else to add. I just don't. > > > > > > Don't separate mind/AK so much. I was just defending opinion > (with > > > what I had available at the moment) that AK/PK relation 2/12, > > apart > > > from rest of the chart, doesn't mean " circumstances that lead to > > > unavoidable physical separation of native and child " by default > (I > > > understood you this way). It was intuitive opinion. As I checked > > in > > > Rafal's email I was not far from truth. Though I am not able to > > give > > > you such detailed arguments. > > > > > > Sorry, my instinctive reaction on everything learned, even if it > > is > > > just one sentence, is to check it out in 10-20 charts of people > I > > > know well. I like to confirm it. I simply work that way. I like > to > > > combine theory and practical. As I understand your last > paragraph > > > that doesn't make me empiricist or practical theoretician. (I > got > > > more than enough plain, simple theory throughout my education. > Now > > I > > > am in decontamination phase with Jyotish) > > > > > > Jung, psychology... I don't go farther then basics. I got > > overdosed > > > with psychology while I was learning Western astrology, where > > > everything you can not confirm with astrology, oh, well, you can > > > always use psychology as excuse. (I have a kind of similar > opinion > > > about Psychology, Modernism and Western Astrology) > > > > > > Since we learned that AK is not just unconscious level, we can > > skip > > > that part. Let's continue tomorrow (I got your email when I was > > > about to go out). Whatever I have left out I'll check it later > or > > > tomorrow. (I like this conversation very much, and we could both > > use > > > some time to additionally " decode " Rafal's email) > > > > > > I'll be brave now to ask you one question: Is your AK maybe Sani? > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Maja > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > > Some more questions inlined: > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " > <majastrbacastro@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > > > > > > > I was actually trying to say that AK/PK 2/12 relation will > not > > > > > necessarily bring giving up on children at all (apart from > > rest > > > of > > > > > the chart). I don't think that AK drags one anywhere > > physically > > > > like > > > > > that. Giving up on children is more case of AL/A5 relation I > > > > think. > > > > > Or even relation between paka lagna and A5. I don't know, my > > PiK > > > > and > > > > > MK are in 2/12 relation, but my parents are still very much > > > > > together. Don't predict me that I shall be a bad mother > > because > > > I > > > > > have AK/PK in 2/12 relation > > > > > > > > I'm not predicting anything. I'm simply trying to fill in the > > > blanks > > > > by building an understanding from the ground up. If I take AK > as > > > > Atma level desire for self and PK as Atma level desire for > > > children, > > > > then AK-PK in 2/12 means there is a relationship of " giving > up " > > > > somewhere (i.e. somewhere AK and PK desires are not in harmony > > as > > > > they would be in a 4/10 relationship, for example). This I get > > > > simply by the meaning of 2/12, nothing else, right? So how > does > > > this > > > > manifest in outward life, please tell me. I dont have any > > > > prejudgements that are etched in stone at all - I'm willing to > > > > evaluate any possibility, and discard wrong ideas provided a > > > better > > > > explanation is given. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " If the mind does not listen to the AK, then AK will force a > > > > > > situation in which the unwilling mind has no option. " Yes. > I > > > > > understand this as force in situation in surrounding, not > > really > > > > > physically dragging far away. Situation that bring " suffer > on > > > soul > > > > > level " … > > > > > > > > I dont understand " physically dragging far away " . I didnt mean > > > that > > > > at all. I'm simply trying to understand how the " situation > that > > > > brings suffering on soul level " comes about. I was using a bit > > of > > > > Jungian psychology there - your unconscious has a way > > (projection) > > > > of forcing you into situations that your conscious mind > > > > despises/rejects. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " If the AK and > > > > > > mind were always together and not in conflict, then AKs > > would > > > > > always > > > > > > be in kona to the moon and/or lagna, no? " I AGREE 100%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, but if you agree, then there is a contradiction, right? > > > Please > > > > follow my reasoning here and point out the discrepancy: Since > AK > > > and > > > > moon/lagna are quite clearly NOT always in kona, then for > > example > > > > when AK is in 6/8 to moon/lagna, it means the desire that the > > AK > > > > represents is NOT deliciously palatable to the mind/lagna, no? > > So, > > > > how does AK desire present itself in the mind - since AK and > > mind > > > > are in 6/8, either that desire is NOT known (8) to the mind, > or > > it > > > > is actually an enemy (6) or in other words something the mind > > > > dislikes? In such cases, how exactly does the AK's desire get > > it's > > > > way, please tell me. If the king(AK) doesnt get his way, who > > does? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Behavior & character = (I believe is) conscious + > unconscious > > > > (there > > > > > are directions in psychology which mention interaction with > > > > > environment as factor, there are those who leave this out > and > > so > > > > on, > > > > > and so on… let's leave it to them), that is why I said " lack > > of > > > > > understanding " . Checked 20 charts? > > > > > > > > > > > > No I didnt check 20 charts and here is the reason. I dont > > > > dispute/have-a-preference for any result at all, I simply want > > the > > > > consistent reasoning that leads to it. I am not an empiricist > by > > > > nature i.e. one who likes the results more than the theory > (e.g. > > > KN > > > > Rao's astrology), I am more of a practical theoretician (one > who > > > > likes to develop the theory first and then corroborate against > > > > data/real life experience). > > > > > > > > Thank you for your detailed replies, > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > > > Hari Om tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > > > > I fully believe and agree with the existence of the > > > unconscious. > > > > > But > > > > > > do you agree that the unconscious attitudes play out in > the > > > > > > *environment* i.e. the person is unconsciously drawn into > > > > > situations > > > > > > which play out the unconscious desires/attitudes? In > exactly > > > > that > > > > > > way, I feel AK/PK 2/12 does not really mean that the > person > > is > > > > > > *consciously* giving up children, but is forced into > > > situations > > > > in > > > > > > which the children need to be given up. The mind may be > > > > unwilling, > > > > > > but situations may force the outcome. I mean AK is the > king, > > > > > right? > > > > > > If the mind does not listen to the AK, then AK will force > a > > > > > > situation in which the unwilling mind has no option. If > the > > AK > > > > and > > > > > > mind were always together and not in conflict, then AKs > > would > > > > > always > > > > > > be in kona to the moon and/or lagna, no? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " > > > <majastrbacastro@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " AK and PK in 2/12 will > > > > > > > > always manifest as lack of understanding between > native > > > and > > > > > > > > children " Kind of, I think. At least in the area of > what > > > > one's > > > > > > > soul deeply strives for. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me try to put it this way: pick 20 charts of people > > you > > > > know > > > > > > > well. Check their AK and compare their general behavior > to > > > it. > > > > > > There > > > > > > > should be some strong resemblance. (Just for the record, > > my > > > AK > > > > > is > > > > > > > Budh... somehow I can recognize in Budh karakatva) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have heard that Atma is not really surface, but > > > rather > > > > > > > something like " unconscious " part of us. But don't you > > think > > > > > that > > > > > > > human behavior should be result of conscious as well as > > > > > > unconscious? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > > > > > > I still dont understand.. So you agree that AK and > PK > > in > > > > > 2/12 > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > always manifest as lack of understanding between > native > > > and > > > > > > > > children? Then what is the difference between AK and > the > > > > mind, > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > every " problem " of the AK is clearly visible in > > > > a " conscious " > > > > > > > mental > > > > > > > > view/attitude? Hope you see my problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " > > > > > <majastrbacastro@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > > > > > > (And hello again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that in case when AK and PK 2/12 is not > really > > > > 100% > > > > > > > > attitude > > > > > > > > > issue of " giving up " . What AK represents for native, > > > same > > > > is > > > > > > PK > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > native's children. So, soul level and important > > > > experiences > > > > > > > > > regarding purification and spirituality are very > > > different > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > native and children (I think it refers to all > > children) > > > > > which > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > bring lack of understanding. Of course, AK can also > > > > describe > > > > > > > huge > > > > > > > > > portion of someone's character. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Attitude and life direction is more matter of > arudhas, > > > so > > > > in > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > case it seems that we should observe relation > between > > AL > > > > and > > > > > > A5. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These are just thoughts. (I could be wrong too. I > did > > > not > > > > > > listen > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > that lecture) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > > > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear members and Gurus, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again a probably simple question. After listening > > to > > > > one > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > Vistiji's lectures, I got the impression (possibly > > > > wrong, > > > > > I > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > cant spend as much time on astrology as I want to, > > so > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > excuse > > > > > > > > > > me if I wrongly absorb something) that by seeing > the > > > > > > > > relationship > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > the AK to the other charakarakas in the Rasi > chart, > > > you > > > > > see > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > real > > > > > > > > > > attitude towards whatever is signified by the > > > > charakaraka. > > > > > I > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > > confused as to what this " real attitude " means. > For > > > > > example, > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > mother's AK and PK are in 2-12 relationship e.g. > PK > > in > > > > > 12th > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > AK, > > > > > > > > > > surely it doesnt mean that the mother's conscious > > > > attitude > > > > > > > > toward > > > > > > > > > > her children is of " giving up " ? Because that > doesnt > > > seem > > > > > to > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > case. Or does it mean that that is the Atma's > > attitude > > > > and > > > > > > > since > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > Atma is deeper than the conscious mind, it might > > > instead > > > > > > > create > > > > > > > > > > situations in which the children are forced to be > > > given > > > > > up? > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > real question is - how exactly, or at what level > of > > > > > > > experience, > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > > you interpret charakarakas position relative to > each > > > > > other? > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > AK > > > > > > > > > > and AmK are together, how exactly does it create > > > > Rajayoga? > > > > > > To > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > the CK principle clearer, could you contrast it > > with, > > > > for > > > > > > > > example, > > > > > > > > > > 10L in the 1st house, and also with 10L with the > > Moon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 Dear Maja, I'll take a while to respond to this.. Cant seem to get all my thoughts together right now! Sundeep sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > Dear Sundeep, > Namaste > > > I did some copy/paste; I hope that it is not too messy so you can > follow: > > " If I take AK as Atma level desire for self and PK as Atma level > desire for children, then AK-PK in 2/12 means there is a > relationship of " giving up " somewhere (i.e. somewhere AK and PK > desires are not in harmony as they would be in a 4/10 relationship, > for example). This I get simply by the meaning of 2/12, nothing > else, right? " > > Yes, there is " giving up " somewhere (just with huge quotation marks, > not abounding), there are differences between native and child > simply by meaning 2/12 and it seems to me that no other conclusion > can be derived from this position now when I read complete thread. > What do you think? > > " I don't have any prejudgments that are etched in stone at all - I'm > willing to evaluate any possibility, and discard wrong ideas > provided a better explanation is given. " > > That is the spirit. Where were you and why aren't you here more > often? > > > " Don't predict me that I shall be a bad mother because I have AK/PK > in 2/12 relation I'm not predicting anything. " > > For God's sake, this was a joke, look, there is smiley at the end > (have I mentioned what is my AK > > I'm simply trying to fill in the blanks by building an understanding > from the ground up. " > > I should look up on you a little. > > " I'm simply trying to understand how the " situation that brings > suffering on soul level " comes about. " > > For this answer I would stick to observing a whole chart. That is > the only way to get it. This is already concerning specifically what > kind of events, situations. It truly depends on complete chart. > > > " If the AK and mind were always together and not in conflict, then > AKs would always be in kona to the moon and/or lagna, no? " I AGREE > 100%. Yes, but if you agree, then there is a contradiction, right " > > What contradiction? (Okay, I am reading following) > > " Since AK and moon/lagna are quite clearly NOT always in kona, then > for example when AK is in 6/8 to moon/lagna, it means the desire > that the AK represents is NOT deliciously palatable to the > mind/lagna, no? So, how does AK desire present itself in the mind - > since AK and mind are in 6/8, either that desire is NOT known (8) to > the mind, or it is actually an enemy (6) or in other words something > the mind dislikes? In such cases, how exactly does the AK's desire > get it's way, please tell me. If the king(AK) doesnt get his way, > who does? " > > I believe that AK always gets its way. Mind can simply like it or > not. > > I think we have a small problem here with categories. I'll need your > help because it seems to me that you might have better idea what the > following is. (This was translated on English from Sanskrit, then I > found it translated on Serbian and now i am " converting " it again on > English, so this can be a... Showtime. Fabulous for > misunderstandings. Hold your breath.) > > Five levels of consciousness: > > Physical consciousness > Mental consciousness > > Sub consciousness (it is pretty clear what part of mind this is) > Super consciousness (part of mind that refers to connection with our > antecessors) > Supra consciousness (joining of Manas and Atma... whatever) > > > This is not Jung (or he accepted this?) or psychology. You have more > chances to be familiar with these categories then me I think. First > two are conscious level (I have no other word for this, sorry, I > hope that you will be able to understand why I am forced to repeat > it) and last three are unconscious level. Are you familiar with this? > > As I know so far Chandra is both Mind and Mentality. So I believe > that when you are using Atma/Mind relation 6/8, you are trying to > point that desires of Atma can be recognized as inimical to > Mentality or..? > > > Regards, > Maja > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro@> > wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Dear Sundeep, > > Namaste > > > > You just reminded me of my best friend so much. In her case Sani > is > > lagna lord in 9th and AK. A little more influence than in your > case. > > At one point you sounded just like her :) > > > > Regards, > > Maja > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > You're pretty good. Although my AK is not Sani (natal AK is > > > actually Venus, but I have 2 CK replacements at the AK level, I > > > think it is Mercury at this point in my life), Sani is my Lagna > > Lord > > > (Aq Lagna) and Sani is also conjunct my Moon, so Sani influence > is > > > strong. > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Dear Sundeep, > > > > Namaste > > > > > > > > Let me tell you one thing, your questions are excellent! Don't > > > ever > > > > hesitate to ask whatever there is on your mind! > > > > > > > > How about this: Read Rafal's email from this morning. I simply > > > have > > > > nothing else to add. I just don't. > > > > > > > > Don't separate mind/AK so much. I was just defending opinion > > (with > > > > what I had available at the moment) that AK/PK relation 2/12, > > > apart > > > > from rest of the chart, doesn't mean " circumstances that lead > to > > > > unavoidable physical separation of native and child " by > default > > (I > > > > understood you this way). It was intuitive opinion. As I > checked > > > in > > > > Rafal's email I was not far from truth. Though I am not able > to > > > give > > > > you such detailed arguments. > > > > > > > > Sorry, my instinctive reaction on everything learned, even if > it > > > is > > > > just one sentence, is to check it out in 10-20 charts of > people > > I > > > > know well. I like to confirm it. I simply work that way. I > like > > to > > > > combine theory and practical. As I understand your last > > paragraph > > > > that doesn't make me empiricist or practical theoretician. (I > > got > > > > more than enough plain, simple theory throughout my education. > > Now > > > I > > > > am in decontamination phase with Jyotish) > > > > > > > > Jung, psychology... I don't go farther then basics. I got > > > overdosed > > > > with psychology while I was learning Western astrology, where > > > > everything you can not confirm with astrology, oh, well, you > can > > > > always use psychology as excuse. (I have a kind of similar > > opinion > > > > about Psychology, Modernism and Western Astrology) > > > > > > > > Since we learned that AK is not just unconscious level, we can > > > skip > > > > that part. Let's continue tomorrow (I got your email when I > was > > > > about to go out). Whatever I have left out I'll check it later > > or > > > > tomorrow. (I like this conversation very much, and we could > both > > > use > > > > some time to additionally " decode " Rafal's email) > > > > > > > > I'll be brave now to ask you one question: Is your AK maybe > Sani? > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > > > Some more questions inlined: > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " > > <majastrbacastro@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > > > > > > > > > I was actually trying to say that AK/PK 2/12 relation will > > not > > > > > > necessarily bring giving up on children at all (apart from > > > rest > > > > of > > > > > > the chart). I don't think that AK drags one anywhere > > > physically > > > > > like > > > > > > that. Giving up on children is more case of AL/A5 relation > I > > > > > think. > > > > > > Or even relation between paka lagna and A5. I don't know, > my > > > PiK > > > > > and > > > > > > MK are in 2/12 relation, but my parents are still very > much > > > > > > together. Don't predict me that I shall be a bad mother > > > because > > > > I > > > > > > have AK/PK in 2/12 relation > > > > > > > > > > I'm not predicting anything. I'm simply trying to fill in > the > > > > blanks > > > > > by building an understanding from the ground up. If I take > AK > > as > > > > > Atma level desire for self and PK as Atma level desire for > > > > children, > > > > > then AK-PK in 2/12 means there is a relationship of " giving > > up " > > > > > somewhere (i.e. somewhere AK and PK desires are not in > harmony > > > as > > > > > they would be in a 4/10 relationship, for example). This I > get > > > > > simply by the meaning of 2/12, nothing else, right? So how > > does > > > > this > > > > > manifest in outward life, please tell me. I dont have any > > > > > prejudgements that are etched in stone at all - I'm willing > to > > > > > evaluate any possibility, and discard wrong ideas provided a > > > > better > > > > > explanation is given. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " If the mind does not listen to the AK, then AK will force > a > > > > > > > situation in which the unwilling mind has no option. " > Yes. > > I > > > > > > understand this as force in situation in surrounding, not > > > really > > > > > > physically dragging far away. Situation that bring " suffer > > on > > > > soul > > > > > > level " … > > > > > > > > > > I dont understand " physically dragging far away " . I didnt > mean > > > > that > > > > > at all. I'm simply trying to understand how the " situation > > that > > > > > brings suffering on soul level " comes about. I was using a > bit > > > of > > > > > Jungian psychology there - your unconscious has a way > > > (projection) > > > > > of forcing you into situations that your conscious mind > > > > > despises/rejects. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " If the AK and > > > > > > > mind were always together and not in conflict, then AKs > > > would > > > > > > always > > > > > > > be in kona to the moon and/or lagna, no? " I AGREE 100%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, but if you agree, then there is a contradiction, right? > > > > Please > > > > > follow my reasoning here and point out the discrepancy: > Since > > AK > > > > and > > > > > moon/lagna are quite clearly NOT always in kona, then for > > > example > > > > > when AK is in 6/8 to moon/lagna, it means the desire that > the > > > AK > > > > > represents is NOT deliciously palatable to the mind/lagna, > no? > > > So, > > > > > how does AK desire present itself in the mind - since AK and > > > mind > > > > > are in 6/8, either that desire is NOT known (8) to the mind, > > or > > > it > > > > > is actually an enemy (6) or in other words something the > mind > > > > > dislikes? In such cases, how exactly does the AK's desire > get > > > it's > > > > > way, please tell me. If the king(AK) doesnt get his way, who > > > does? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Behavior & character = (I believe is) conscious + > > unconscious > > > > > (there > > > > > > are directions in psychology which mention interaction > with > > > > > > environment as factor, there are those who leave this out > > and > > > so > > > > > on, > > > > > > and so on… let's leave it to them), that is why I > said " lack > > > of > > > > > > understanding " . Checked 20 charts? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No I didnt check 20 charts and here is the reason. I dont > > > > > dispute/have-a-preference for any result at all, I simply > want > > > the > > > > > consistent reasoning that leads to it. I am not an > empiricist > > by > > > > > nature i.e. one who likes the results more than the theory > > (e.g. > > > > KN > > > > > Rao's astrology), I am more of a practical theoretician (one > > who > > > > > likes to develop the theory first and then corroborate > against > > > > > data/real life experience). > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your detailed replies, > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Om tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > > > > > I fully believe and agree with the existence of the > > > > unconscious. > > > > > > But > > > > > > > do you agree that the unconscious attitudes play out in > > the > > > > > > > *environment* i.e. the person is unconsciously drawn > into > > > > > > situations > > > > > > > which play out the unconscious desires/attitudes? In > > exactly > > > > > that > > > > > > > way, I feel AK/PK 2/12 does not really mean that the > > person > > > is > > > > > > > *consciously* giving up children, but is forced into > > > > situations > > > > > in > > > > > > > which the children need to be given up. The mind may be > > > > > unwilling, > > > > > > > but situations may force the outcome. I mean AK is the > > king, > > > > > > right? > > > > > > > If the mind does not listen to the AK, then AK will > force > > a > > > > > > > situation in which the unwilling mind has no option. If > > the > > > AK > > > > > and > > > > > > > mind were always together and not in conflict, then AKs > > > would > > > > > > always > > > > > > > be in kona to the moon and/or lagna, no? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " > > > > <majastrbacastro@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " AK and PK in 2/12 will > > > > > > > > > always manifest as lack of understanding between > > native > > > > and > > > > > > > > > children " Kind of, I think. At least in the area of > > what > > > > > one's > > > > > > > > soul deeply strives for. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me try to put it this way: pick 20 charts of > people > > > you > > > > > know > > > > > > > > well. Check their AK and compare their general > behavior > > to > > > > it. > > > > > > > There > > > > > > > > should be some strong resemblance. (Just for the > record, > > > my > > > > AK > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > Budh... somehow I can recognize in Budh karakatva) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have heard that Atma is not really surface, but > > > > rather > > > > > > > > something like " unconscious " part of us. But don't you > > > think > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > human behavior should be result of conscious as well > as > > > > > > > unconscious? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > > > > > > > I still dont understand.. So you agree that AK and > > PK > > > in > > > > > > 2/12 > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > always manifest as lack of understanding between > > native > > > > and > > > > > > > > > children? Then what is the difference between AK and > > the > > > > > mind, > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > every " problem " of the AK is clearly visible in > > > > > a " conscious " > > > > > > > > mental > > > > > > > > > view/attitude? Hope you see my problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " > > > > > > <majastrbacastro@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > > > > > > > (And hello again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that in case when AK and PK 2/12 is not > > really > > > > > 100% > > > > > > > > > attitude > > > > > > > > > > issue of " giving up " . What AK represents for > native, > > > > same > > > > > is > > > > > > > PK > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > native's children. So, soul level and important > > > > > experiences > > > > > > > > > > regarding purification and spirituality are very > > > > different > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > native and children (I think it refers to all > > > children) > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > bring lack of understanding. Of course, AK can > also > > > > > describe > > > > > > > > huge > > > > > > > > > > portion of someone's character. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Attitude and life direction is more matter of > > arudhas, > > > > so > > > > > in > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > case it seems that we should observe relation > > between > > > AL > > > > > and > > > > > > > A5. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These are just thoughts. (I could be wrong too. I > > did > > > > not > > > > > > > listen > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > that lecture) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > > > > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear members and Gurus, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again a probably simple question. After > listening > > > to > > > > > one > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > Vistiji's lectures, I got the impression > (possibly > > > > > wrong, > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > cant spend as much time on astrology as I want > to, > > > so > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > excuse > > > > > > > > > > > me if I wrongly absorb something) that by seeing > > the > > > > > > > > > relationship > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > the AK to the other charakarakas in the Rasi > > chart, > > > > you > > > > > > see > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > real > > > > > > > > > > > attitude towards whatever is signified by the > > > > > charakaraka. > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > > > confused as to what this " real attitude " means. > > For > > > > > > example, > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > mother's AK and PK are in 2-12 relationship e.g. > > PK > > > in > > > > > > 12th > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > AK, > > > > > > > > > > > surely it doesnt mean that the mother's > conscious > > > > > attitude > > > > > > > > > toward > > > > > > > > > > > her children is of " giving up " ? Because that > > doesnt > > > > seem > > > > > > to > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > case. Or does it mean that that is the Atma's > > > attitude > > > > > and > > > > > > > > since > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > Atma is deeper than the conscious mind, it might > > > > instead > > > > > > > > create > > > > > > > > > > > situations in which the children are forced to > be > > > > given > > > > > > up? > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > real question is - how exactly, or at what level > > of > > > > > > > > experience, > > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > > > you interpret charakarakas position relative to > > each > > > > > > other? > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > > AK > > > > > > > > > > > and AmK are together, how exactly does it create > > > > > Rajayoga? > > > > > > > To > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > the CK principle clearer, could you contrast it > > > with, > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > example, > > > > > > > > > > > 10L in the 1st house, and also with 10L with the > > > Moon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 Om Gurave Namah Dear Sundeep, Namaste I share your " dizziness " I am glad that you find this moment convenient to skip from theory to practice. (That stuff about 10- 20 charts was a friendly suggestion. I am sure it helps a lot in learning.) I also think that when you read everything again and check those charts, your reply to my email doesn't have to be longer that just a few sentences. Your question initiated one very informative thread (personally, your question made me think a lot. You're very good too). Regrads, Maja Hari Om Tat Sat sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " <vedicastrostudent wrote: > > Dear Maja, > I'll take a while to respond to this.. Cant seem to get all my > thoughts together right now! > > Sundeep > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro@> > wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > Dear Sundeep, > > Namaste > > > > > > I did some copy/paste; I hope that it is not too messy so you can > > follow: > > > > " If I take AK as Atma level desire for self and PK as Atma level > > desire for children, then AK-PK in 2/12 means there is a > > relationship of " giving up " somewhere (i.e. somewhere AK and PK > > desires are not in harmony as they would be in a 4/10 > relationship, > > for example). This I get simply by the meaning of 2/12, nothing > > else, right? " > > > > Yes, there is " giving up " somewhere (just with huge quotation > marks, > > not abounding), there are differences between native and child > > simply by meaning 2/12 and it seems to me that no other conclusion > > can be derived from this position now when I read complete thread. > > What do you think? > > > > " I don't have any prejudgments that are etched in stone at all - > I'm > > willing to evaluate any possibility, and discard wrong ideas > > provided a better explanation is given. " > > > > That is the spirit. Where were you and why aren't you here more > > often? > > > > > > " Don't predict me that I shall be a bad mother because I have > AK/PK > > in 2/12 relation I'm not predicting anything. " > > > > For God's sake, this was a joke, look, there is smiley at the end > > (have I mentioned what is my AK > > > > I'm simply trying to fill in the blanks by building an > understanding > > from the ground up. " > > > > I should look up on you a little. > > > > " I'm simply trying to understand how the " situation that brings > > suffering on soul level " comes about. " > > > > For this answer I would stick to observing a whole chart. That is > > the only way to get it. This is already concerning specifically > what > > kind of events, situations. It truly depends on complete chart. > > > > > > " If the AK and mind were always together and not in conflict, then > > AKs would always be in kona to the moon and/or lagna, no? " I > AGREE > > 100%. Yes, but if you agree, then there is a contradiction, right " > > > > What contradiction? (Okay, I am reading following) > > > > " Since AK and moon/lagna are quite clearly NOT always in kona, > then > > for example when AK is in 6/8 to moon/lagna, it means the desire > > that the AK represents is NOT deliciously palatable to the > > mind/lagna, no? So, how does AK desire present itself in the mind - > > > since AK and mind are in 6/8, either that desire is NOT known (8) > to > > the mind, or it is actually an enemy (6) or in other words > something > > the mind dislikes? In such cases, how exactly does the AK's desire > > get it's way, please tell me. If the king(AK) doesnt get his way, > > who does? " > > > > I believe that AK always gets its way. Mind can simply like it or > > not. > > > > I think we have a small problem here with categories. I'll need > your > > help because it seems to me that you might have better idea what > the > > following is. (This was translated on English from Sanskrit, then > I > > found it translated on Serbian and now i am " converting " it again > on > > English, so this can be a... Showtime. Fabulous for > > misunderstandings. Hold your breath.) > > > > Five levels of consciousness: > > > > Physical consciousness > > Mental consciousness > > > > Sub consciousness (it is pretty clear what part of mind this is) > > Super consciousness (part of mind that refers to connection with > our > > antecessors) > > Supra consciousness (joining of Manas and Atma... whatever) > > > > > > This is not Jung (or he accepted this?) or psychology. You have > more > > chances to be familiar with these categories then me I think. > First > > two are conscious level (I have no other word for this, sorry, I > > hope that you will be able to understand why I am forced to repeat > > it) and last three are unconscious level. Are you familiar with > this? > > > > As I know so far Chandra is both Mind and Mentality. So I believe > > that when you are using Atma/Mind relation 6/8, you are trying to > > point that desires of Atma can be recognized as inimical to > > Mentality or..? > > > > > > Regards, > > Maja > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Dear Sundeep, > > > Namaste > > > > > > You just reminded me of my best friend so much. In her case Sani > > is > > > lagna lord in 9th and AK. A little more influence than in your > > case. > > > At one point you sounded just like her :) > > > > > > Regards, > > > Maja > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > > You're pretty good. Although my AK is not Sani (natal AK is > > > > actually Venus, but I have 2 CK replacements at the AK level, > I > > > > think it is Mercury at this point in my life), Sani is my > Lagna > > > Lord > > > > (Aq Lagna) and Sani is also conjunct my Moon, so Sani > influence > > is > > > > strong. > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " > <majastrbacastro@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sundeep, > > > > > Namaste > > > > > > > > > > Let me tell you one thing, your questions are excellent! > Don't > > > > ever > > > > > hesitate to ask whatever there is on your mind! > > > > > > > > > > How about this: Read Rafal's email from this morning. I > simply > > > > have > > > > > nothing else to add. I just don't. > > > > > > > > > > Don't separate mind/AK so much. I was just defending opinion > > > (with > > > > > what I had available at the moment) that AK/PK relation > 2/12, > > > > apart > > > > > from rest of the chart, doesn't mean " circumstances that > lead > > to > > > > > unavoidable physical separation of native and child " by > > default > > > (I > > > > > understood you this way). It was intuitive opinion. As I > > checked > > > > in > > > > > Rafal's email I was not far from truth. Though I am not able > > to > > > > give > > > > > you such detailed arguments. > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, my instinctive reaction on everything learned, even > if > > it > > > > is > > > > > just one sentence, is to check it out in 10-20 charts of > > people > > > I > > > > > know well. I like to confirm it. I simply work that way. I > > like > > > to > > > > > combine theory and practical. As I understand your last > > > paragraph > > > > > that doesn't make me empiricist or practical theoretician. > (I > > > got > > > > > more than enough plain, simple theory throughout my > education. > > > Now > > > > I > > > > > am in decontamination phase with Jyotish) > > > > > > > > > > Jung, psychology... I don't go farther then basics. I got > > > > overdosed > > > > > with psychology while I was learning Western astrology, > where > > > > > everything you can not confirm with astrology, oh, well, you > > can > > > > > always use psychology as excuse. (I have a kind of similar > > > opinion > > > > > about Psychology, Modernism and Western Astrology) > > > > > > > > > > Since we learned that AK is not just unconscious level, we > can > > > > skip > > > > > that part. Let's continue tomorrow (I got your email when I > > was > > > > > about to go out). Whatever I have left out I'll check it > later > > > or > > > > > tomorrow. (I like this conversation very much, and we could > > both > > > > use > > > > > some time to additionally " decode " Rafal's email) > > > > > > > > > > I'll be brave now to ask you one question: Is your AK maybe > > Sani? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > > > > Some more questions inlined: > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " > > > <majastrbacastro@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was actually trying to say that AK/PK 2/12 relation > will > > > not > > > > > > > necessarily bring giving up on children at all (apart > from > > > > rest > > > > > of > > > > > > > the chart). I don't think that AK drags one anywhere > > > > physically > > > > > > like > > > > > > > that. Giving up on children is more case of AL/A5 > relation > > I > > > > > > think. > > > > > > > Or even relation between paka lagna and A5. I don't > know, > > my > > > > PiK > > > > > > and > > > > > > > MK are in 2/12 relation, but my parents are still very > > much > > > > > > > together. Don't predict me that I shall be a bad mother > > > > because > > > > > I > > > > > > > have AK/PK in 2/12 relation > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not predicting anything. I'm simply trying to fill in > > the > > > > > blanks > > > > > > by building an understanding from the ground up. If I take > > AK > > > as > > > > > > Atma level desire for self and PK as Atma level desire for > > > > > children, > > > > > > then AK-PK in 2/12 means there is a relationship > of " giving > > > up " > > > > > > somewhere (i.e. somewhere AK and PK desires are not in > > harmony > > > > as > > > > > > they would be in a 4/10 relationship, for example). This I > > get > > > > > > simply by the meaning of 2/12, nothing else, right? So how > > > does > > > > > this > > > > > > manifest in outward life, please tell me. I dont have any > > > > > > prejudgements that are etched in stone at all - I'm > willing > > to > > > > > > evaluate any possibility, and discard wrong ideas provided > a > > > > > better > > > > > > explanation is given. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " If the mind does not listen to the AK, then AK will > force > > a > > > > > > > > situation in which the unwilling mind has no option. " > > Yes. > > > I > > > > > > > understand this as force in situation in surrounding, > not > > > > really > > > > > > > physically dragging far away. Situation that > bring " suffer > > > on > > > > > soul > > > > > > > level " … > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont understand " physically dragging far away " . I didnt > > mean > > > > > that > > > > > > at all. I'm simply trying to understand how the " situation > > > that > > > > > > brings suffering on soul level " comes about. I was using a > > bit > > > > of > > > > > > Jungian psychology there - your unconscious has a way > > > > (projection) > > > > > > of forcing you into situations that your conscious mind > > > > > > despises/rejects. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " If the AK and > > > > > > > > mind were always together and not in conflict, then > AKs > > > > would > > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > be in kona to the moon and/or lagna, no? " I AGREE > 100%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, but if you agree, then there is a contradiction, > right? > > > > > Please > > > > > > follow my reasoning here and point out the discrepancy: > > Since > > > AK > > > > > and > > > > > > moon/lagna are quite clearly NOT always in kona, then for > > > > example > > > > > > when AK is in 6/8 to moon/lagna, it means the desire that > > the > > > > AK > > > > > > represents is NOT deliciously palatable to the mind/lagna, > > no? > > > > So, > > > > > > how does AK desire present itself in the mind - since AK > and > > > > mind > > > > > > are in 6/8, either that desire is NOT known (8) to the > mind, > > > or > > > > it > > > > > > is actually an enemy (6) or in other words something the > > mind > > > > > > dislikes? In such cases, how exactly does the AK's desire > > get > > > > it's > > > > > > way, please tell me. If the king(AK) doesnt get his way, > who > > > > does? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Behavior & character = (I believe is) conscious + > > > unconscious > > > > > > (there > > > > > > > are directions in psychology which mention interaction > > with > > > > > > > environment as factor, there are those who leave this > out > > > and > > > > so > > > > > > on, > > > > > > > and so on… let's leave it to them), that is why I > > said " lack > > > > of > > > > > > > understanding " . Checked 20 charts? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No I didnt check 20 charts and here is the reason. I dont > > > > > > dispute/have-a-preference for any result at all, I simply > > want > > > > the > > > > > > consistent reasoning that leads to it. I am not an > > empiricist > > > by > > > > > > nature i.e. one who likes the results more than the theory > > > (e.g. > > > > > KN > > > > > > Rao's astrology), I am more of a practical theoretician > (one > > > who > > > > > > likes to develop the theory first and then corroborate > > against > > > > > > data/real life experience). > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your detailed replies, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Om tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > > > > > > I fully believe and agree with the existence of the > > > > > unconscious. > > > > > > > But > > > > > > > > do you agree that the unconscious attitudes play out > in > > > the > > > > > > > > *environment* i.e. the person is unconsciously drawn > > into > > > > > > > situations > > > > > > > > which play out the unconscious desires/attitudes? In > > > exactly > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > way, I feel AK/PK 2/12 does not really mean that the > > > person > > > > is > > > > > > > > *consciously* giving up children, but is forced into > > > > > situations > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > which the children need to be given up. The mind may > be > > > > > > unwilling, > > > > > > > > but situations may force the outcome. I mean AK is the > > > king, > > > > > > > right? > > > > > > > > If the mind does not listen to the AK, then AK will > > force > > > a > > > > > > > > situation in which the unwilling mind has no option. > If > > > the > > > > AK > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > mind were always together and not in conflict, then > AKs > > > > would > > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > be in kona to the moon and/or lagna, no? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " > > > > > <majastrbacastro@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " AK and PK in 2/12 will > > > > > > > > > > always manifest as lack of understanding between > > > native > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > children " Kind of, I think. At least in the area > of > > > what > > > > > > one's > > > > > > > > > soul deeply strives for. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me try to put it this way: pick 20 charts of > > people > > > > you > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > well. Check their AK and compare their general > > behavior > > > to > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > There > > > > > > > > > should be some strong resemblance. (Just for the > > record, > > > > my > > > > > AK > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > Budh... somehow I can recognize in Budh karakatva) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have heard that Atma is not really surface, > but > > > > > rather > > > > > > > > > something like " unconscious " part of us. But don't > you > > > > think > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > human behavior should be result of conscious as well > > as > > > > > > > > unconscious? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > > > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > > > > > > > > I still dont understand.. So you agree that AK > and > > > PK > > > > in > > > > > > > 2/12 > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > always manifest as lack of understanding between > > > native > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > children? Then what is the difference between AK > and > > > the > > > > > > mind, > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > every " problem " of the AK is clearly visible in > > > > > > a " conscious " > > > > > > > > > mental > > > > > > > > > > view/attitude? Hope you see my problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " > > > > > > > <majastrbacastro@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > > > > > > > > (And hello again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that in case when AK and PK 2/12 is not > > > really > > > > > > 100% > > > > > > > > > > attitude > > > > > > > > > > > issue of " giving up " . What AK represents for > > native, > > > > > same > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > PK > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > native's children. So, soul level and important > > > > > > experiences > > > > > > > > > > > regarding purification and spirituality are very > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > native and children (I think it refers to all > > > > children) > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > bring lack of understanding. Of course, AK can > > also > > > > > > describe > > > > > > > > > huge > > > > > > > > > > > portion of someone's character. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Attitude and life direction is more matter of > > > arudhas, > > > > > so > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > case it seems that we should observe relation > > > between > > > > AL > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > A5. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These are just thoughts. (I could be wrong too. > I > > > did > > > > > not > > > > > > > > listen > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > that lecture) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > > > > > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear members and Gurus, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again a probably simple question. After > > listening > > > > to > > > > > > one > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > Vistiji's lectures, I got the impression > > (possibly > > > > > > wrong, > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > > cant spend as much time on astrology as I want > > to, > > > > so > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > > excuse > > > > > > > > > > > > me if I wrongly absorb something) that by > seeing > > > the > > > > > > > > > > relationship > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > the AK to the other charakarakas in the Rasi > > > chart, > > > > > you > > > > > > > see > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > real > > > > > > > > > > > > attitude towards whatever is signified by the > > > > > > charakaraka. > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > > > > confused as to what this " real attitude " > means. > > > For > > > > > > > example, > > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > mother's AK and PK are in 2-12 relationship > e.g. > > > PK > > > > in > > > > > > > 12th > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > AK, > > > > > > > > > > > > surely it doesnt mean that the mother's > > conscious > > > > > > attitude > > > > > > > > > > toward > > > > > > > > > > > > her children is of " giving up " ? Because that > > > doesnt > > > > > seem > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > case. Or does it mean that that is the Atma's > > > > attitude > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > since > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > Atma is deeper than the conscious mind, it > might > > > > > instead > > > > > > > > > create > > > > > > > > > > > > situations in which the children are forced to > > be > > > > > given > > > > > > > up? > > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > real question is - how exactly, or at what > level > > > of > > > > > > > > > experience, > > > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > > > > you interpret charakarakas position relative > to > > > each > > > > > > > other? > > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > > > AK > > > > > > > > > > > > and AmK are together, how exactly does it > create > > > > > > Rajayoga? > > > > > > > > To > > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > > the CK principle clearer, could you contrast > it > > > > with, > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > example, > > > > > > > > > > > > 10L in the 1st house, and also with 10L with > the > > > > Moon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 Dear Maja, Sorry to interrupt. You write a lot. Where is Mercury placed in your chart. Will appreciate if you can send in you birth details. This is just a vedic astrology curiosity. I can send mine if you wish. Thanks and regards, Mike sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > Dear Sundeep, > Namaste > > I share your " dizziness " I am glad that you find this moment > convenient to skip from theory to practice. (That stuff about 10- > 20 charts was a friendly suggestion. I am sure it helps a lot in > learning.) I also think that when you read everything again and > check those charts, your reply to my email doesn't have to be longer > that just a few sentences. > > Your question initiated one very informative thread (personally, > your question made me think a lot. You're very good too). > > Regrads, > Maja > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > Dear Maja, > > I'll take a while to respond to this.. Cant seem to get all my > > thoughts together right now! > > > > Sundeep > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > Dear Sundeep, > > > Namaste > > > > > > > > > I did some copy/paste; I hope that it is not too messy so you > can > > > follow: > > > > > > " If I take AK as Atma level desire for self and PK as Atma level > > > desire for children, then AK-PK in 2/12 means there is a > > > relationship of " giving up " somewhere (i.e. somewhere AK and PK > > > desires are not in harmony as they would be in a 4/10 > > relationship, > > > for example). This I get simply by the meaning of 2/12, nothing > > > else, right? " > > > > > > Yes, there is " giving up " somewhere (just with huge quotation > > marks, > > > not abounding), there are differences between native and child > > > simply by meaning 2/12 and it seems to me that no other > conclusion > > > can be derived from this position now when I read complete > thread. > > > What do you think? > > > > > > " I don't have any prejudgments that are etched in stone at all - > > I'm > > > willing to evaluate any possibility, and discard wrong ideas > > > provided a better explanation is given. " > > > > > > That is the spirit. Where were you and why aren't you here more > > > often? > > > > > > > > > " Don't predict me that I shall be a bad mother because I have > > AK/PK > > > in 2/12 relation I'm not predicting anything. " > > > > > > For God's sake, this was a joke, look, there is smiley at the > end > > > (have I mentioned what is my AK > > > > > > I'm simply trying to fill in the blanks by building an > > understanding > > > from the ground up. " > > > > > > I should look up on you a little. > > > > > > " I'm simply trying to understand how the " situation that brings > > > suffering on soul level " comes about. " > > > > > > For this answer I would stick to observing a whole chart. That > is > > > the only way to get it. This is already concerning specifically > > what > > > kind of events, situations. It truly depends on complete chart. > > > > > > > > > " If the AK and mind were always together and not in conflict, > then > > > AKs would always be in kona to the moon and/or lagna, no? " I > > AGREE > > > 100%. Yes, but if you agree, then there is a contradiction, > right " > > > > > > What contradiction? (Okay, I am reading following) > > > > > > " Since AK and moon/lagna are quite clearly NOT always in kona, > > then > > > for example when AK is in 6/8 to moon/lagna, it means the desire > > > that the AK represents is NOT deliciously palatable to the > > > mind/lagna, no? So, how does AK desire present itself in the > mind - > > > > > since AK and mind are in 6/8, either that desire is NOT known > (8) > > to > > > the mind, or it is actually an enemy (6) or in other words > > something > > > the mind dislikes? In such cases, how exactly does the AK's > desire > > > get it's way, please tell me. If the king(AK) doesnt get his > way, > > > who does? " > > > > > > I believe that AK always gets its way. Mind can simply like it > or > > > not. > > > > > > I think we have a small problem here with categories. I'll need > > your > > > help because it seems to me that you might have better idea what > > the > > > following is. (This was translated on English from Sanskrit, > then > > I > > > found it translated on Serbian and now i am " converting " it > again > > on > > > English, so this can be a... Showtime. Fabulous for > > > misunderstandings. Hold your breath.) > > > > > > Five levels of consciousness: > > > > > > Physical consciousness > > > Mental consciousness > > > > > > Sub consciousness (it is pretty clear what part of mind this is) > > > Super consciousness (part of mind that refers to connection with > > our > > > antecessors) > > > Supra consciousness (joining of Manas and Atma... whatever) > > > > > > > > > This is not Jung (or he accepted this?) or psychology. You have > > more > > > chances to be familiar with these categories then me I think. > > First > > > two are conscious level (I have no other word for this, sorry, I > > > hope that you will be able to understand why I am forced to > repeat > > > it) and last three are unconscious level. Are you familiar with > > this? > > > > > > As I know so far Chandra is both Mind and Mentality. So I > believe > > > that when you are using Atma/Mind relation 6/8, you are trying > to > > > point that desires of Atma can be recognized as inimical to > > > Mentality or..? > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Maja > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " <majastrbacastro@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Dear Sundeep, > > > > Namaste > > > > > > > > You just reminded me of my best friend so much. In her case > Sani > > > is > > > > lagna lord in 9th and AK. A little more influence than in your > > > case. > > > > At one point you sounded just like her :) > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > > > You're pretty good. Although my AK is not Sani (natal AK is > > > > > actually Venus, but I have 2 CK replacements at the AK > level, > > I > > > > > think it is Mercury at this point in my life), Sani is my > > Lagna > > > > Lord > > > > > (Aq Lagna) and Sani is also conjunct my Moon, so Sani > > influence > > > is > > > > > strong. > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " > > <majastrbacastro@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sundeep, > > > > > > Namaste > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me tell you one thing, your questions are excellent! > > Don't > > > > > ever > > > > > > hesitate to ask whatever there is on your mind! > > > > > > > > > > > > How about this: Read Rafal's email from this morning. I > > simply > > > > > have > > > > > > nothing else to add. I just don't. > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't separate mind/AK so much. I was just defending > opinion > > > > (with > > > > > > what I had available at the moment) that AK/PK relation > > 2/12, > > > > > apart > > > > > > from rest of the chart, doesn't mean " circumstances that > > lead > > > to > > > > > > unavoidable physical separation of native and child " by > > > default > > > > (I > > > > > > understood you this way). It was intuitive opinion. As I > > > checked > > > > > in > > > > > > Rafal's email I was not far from truth. Though I am not > able > > > to > > > > > give > > > > > > you such detailed arguments. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, my instinctive reaction on everything learned, even > > if > > > it > > > > > is > > > > > > just one sentence, is to check it out in 10-20 charts of > > > people > > > > I > > > > > > know well. I like to confirm it. I simply work that way. I > > > like > > > > to > > > > > > combine theory and practical. As I understand your last > > > > paragraph > > > > > > that doesn't make me empiricist or practical theoretician. > > (I > > > > got > > > > > > more than enough plain, simple theory throughout my > > education. > > > > Now > > > > > I > > > > > > am in decontamination phase with Jyotish) > > > > > > > > > > > > Jung, psychology... I don't go farther then basics. I got > > > > > overdosed > > > > > > with psychology while I was learning Western astrology, > > where > > > > > > everything you can not confirm with astrology, oh, well, > you > > > can > > > > > > always use psychology as excuse. (I have a kind of similar > > > > opinion > > > > > > about Psychology, Modernism and Western Astrology) > > > > > > > > > > > > Since we learned that AK is not just unconscious level, we > > can > > > > > skip > > > > > > that part. Let's continue tomorrow (I got your email when > I > > > was > > > > > > about to go out). Whatever I have left out I'll check it > > later > > > > or > > > > > > tomorrow. (I like this conversation very much, and we > could > > > both > > > > > use > > > > > > some time to additionally " decode " Rafal's email) > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll be brave now to ask you one question: Is your AK > maybe > > > Sani? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > > > > > Some more questions inlined: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " > > > > <majastrbacastro@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was actually trying to say that AK/PK 2/12 relation > > will > > > > not > > > > > > > > necessarily bring giving up on children at all (apart > > from > > > > > rest > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > the chart). I don't think that AK drags one anywhere > > > > > physically > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > that. Giving up on children is more case of AL/A5 > > relation > > > I > > > > > > > think. > > > > > > > > Or even relation between paka lagna and A5. I don't > > know, > > > my > > > > > PiK > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > MK are in 2/12 relation, but my parents are still very > > > much > > > > > > > > together. Don't predict me that I shall be a bad > mother > > > > > because > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > have AK/PK in 2/12 relation > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not predicting anything. I'm simply trying to fill > in > > > the > > > > > > blanks > > > > > > > by building an understanding from the ground up. If I > take > > > AK > > > > as > > > > > > > Atma level desire for self and PK as Atma level desire > for > > > > > > children, > > > > > > > then AK-PK in 2/12 means there is a relationship > > of " giving > > > > up " > > > > > > > somewhere (i.e. somewhere AK and PK desires are not in > > > harmony > > > > > as > > > > > > > they would be in a 4/10 relationship, for example). This > I > > > get > > > > > > > simply by the meaning of 2/12, nothing else, right? So > how > > > > does > > > > > > this > > > > > > > manifest in outward life, please tell me. I dont have > any > > > > > > > prejudgements that are etched in stone at all - I'm > > willing > > > to > > > > > > > evaluate any possibility, and discard wrong ideas > provided > > a > > > > > > better > > > > > > > explanation is given. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " If the mind does not listen to the AK, then AK will > > force > > > a > > > > > > > > > situation in which the unwilling mind has no > option. " > > > Yes. > > > > I > > > > > > > > understand this as force in situation in surrounding, > > not > > > > > really > > > > > > > > physically dragging far away. Situation that > > bring " suffer > > > > on > > > > > > soul > > > > > > > > level " … > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont understand " physically dragging far away " . I > didnt > > > mean > > > > > > that > > > > > > > at all. I'm simply trying to understand how > the " situation > > > > that > > > > > > > brings suffering on soul level " comes about. I was using > a > > > bit > > > > > of > > > > > > > Jungian psychology there - your unconscious has a way > > > > > (projection) > > > > > > > of forcing you into situations that your conscious mind > > > > > > > despises/rejects. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " If the AK and > > > > > > > > > mind were always together and not in conflict, then > > AKs > > > > > would > > > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > be in kona to the moon and/or lagna, no? " I AGREE > > 100%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, but if you agree, then there is a contradiction, > > right? > > > > > > Please > > > > > > > follow my reasoning here and point out the discrepancy: > > > Since > > > > AK > > > > > > and > > > > > > > moon/lagna are quite clearly NOT always in kona, then > for > > > > > example > > > > > > > when AK is in 6/8 to moon/lagna, it means the desire > that > > > the > > > > > AK > > > > > > > represents is NOT deliciously palatable to the > mind/lagna, > > > no? > > > > > So, > > > > > > > how does AK desire present itself in the mind - since AK > > and > > > > > mind > > > > > > > are in 6/8, either that desire is NOT known (8) to the > > mind, > > > > or > > > > > it > > > > > > > is actually an enemy (6) or in other words something the > > > mind > > > > > > > dislikes? In such cases, how exactly does the AK's > desire > > > get > > > > > it's > > > > > > > way, please tell me. If the king(AK) doesnt get his way, > > who > > > > > does? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Behavior & character = (I believe is) conscious + > > > > unconscious > > > > > > > (there > > > > > > > > are directions in psychology which mention interaction > > > with > > > > > > > > environment as factor, there are those who leave this > > out > > > > and > > > > > so > > > > > > > on, > > > > > > > > and so on… let's leave it to them), that is why I > > > said " lack > > > > > of > > > > > > > > understanding " . Checked 20 charts? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No I didnt check 20 charts and here is the reason. I > dont > > > > > > > dispute/have-a-preference for any result at all, I > simply > > > want > > > > > the > > > > > > > consistent reasoning that leads to it. I am not an > > > empiricist > > > > by > > > > > > > nature i.e. one who likes the results more than the > theory > > > > (e.g. > > > > > > KN > > > > > > > Rao's astrology), I am more of a practical theoretician > > (one > > > > who > > > > > > > likes to develop the theory first and then corroborate > > > against > > > > > > > data/real life experience). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your detailed replies, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Om tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > > > > > > > I fully believe and agree with the existence of the > > > > > > unconscious. > > > > > > > > But > > > > > > > > > do you agree that the unconscious attitudes play out > > in > > > > the > > > > > > > > > *environment* i.e. the person is unconsciously drawn > > > into > > > > > > > > situations > > > > > > > > > which play out the unconscious desires/attitudes? In > > > > exactly > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > way, I feel AK/PK 2/12 does not really mean that the > > > > person > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > *consciously* giving up children, but is forced into > > > > > > situations > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > which the children need to be given up. The mind may > > be > > > > > > > unwilling, > > > > > > > > > but situations may force the outcome. I mean AK is > the > > > > king, > > > > > > > > right? > > > > > > > > > If the mind does not listen to the AK, then AK will > > > force > > > > a > > > > > > > > > situation in which the unwilling mind has no option. > > If > > > > the > > > > > AK > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > mind were always together and not in conflict, then > > AKs > > > > > would > > > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > be in kona to the moon and/or lagna, no? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " > > > > > > <majastrbacastro@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " AK and PK in 2/12 will > > > > > > > > > > > always manifest as lack of understanding between > > > > native > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > children " Kind of, I think. At least in the area > > of > > > > what > > > > > > > one's > > > > > > > > > > soul deeply strives for. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me try to put it this way: pick 20 charts of > > > people > > > > > you > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > well. Check their AK and compare their general > > > behavior > > > > to > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > There > > > > > > > > > > should be some strong resemblance. (Just for the > > > record, > > > > > my > > > > > > AK > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > Budh... somehow I can recognize in Budh karakatva) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have heard that Atma is not really surface, > > but > > > > > > rather > > > > > > > > > > something like " unconscious " part of us. But don't > > you > > > > > think > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > human behavior should be result of conscious as > well > > > as > > > > > > > > > unconscious? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > > > > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Maja, > > > > > > > > > > > I still dont understand.. So you agree that AK > > and > > > > PK > > > > > in > > > > > > > > 2/12 > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > always manifest as lack of understanding between > > > > native > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > children? Then what is the difference between AK > > and > > > > the > > > > > > > mind, > > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > > every " problem " of the AK is clearly visible in > > > > > > > a " conscious " > > > > > > > > > > mental > > > > > > > > > > > view/attitude? Hope you see my problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Maja Strbac " > > > > > > > > <majastrbacastro@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste dear Sundeep, > > > > > > > > > > > > (And hello again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that in case when AK and PK 2/12 is > not > > > > really > > > > > > > 100% > > > > > > > > > > > attitude > > > > > > > > > > > > issue of " giving up " . What AK represents for > > > native, > > > > > > same > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > PK > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > native's children. So, soul level and > important > > > > > > > experiences > > > > > > > > > > > > regarding purification and spirituality are > very > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > native and children (I think it refers to all > > > > > children) > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > bring lack of understanding. Of course, AK can > > > also > > > > > > > describe > > > > > > > > > > huge > > > > > > > > > > > > portion of someone's character. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Attitude and life direction is more matter of > > > > arudhas, > > > > > > so > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > case it seems that we should observe relation > > > > between > > > > > AL > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > A5. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These are just thoughts. (I could be wrong > too. > > I > > > > did > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > listen > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > that lecture) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Maja > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hari Om Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " > > > > > > > > > > > > <vedicastrostudent@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear members and Gurus, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again a probably simple question. After > > > listening > > > > > to > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vistiji's lectures, I got the impression > > > (possibly > > > > > > > wrong, > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > > > cant spend as much time on astrology as I > want > > > to, > > > > > so > > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > > > > excuse > > > > > > > > > > > > > me if I wrongly absorb something) that by > > seeing > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > relationship > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > the AK to the other charakarakas in the Rasi > > > > chart, > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > see > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > real > > > > > > > > > > > > > attitude towards whatever is signified by > the > > > > > > > charakaraka. > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > > > > > confused as to what this " real attitude " > > means. > > > > For > > > > > > > > example, > > > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > mother's AK and PK are in 2-12 relationship > > e.g. > > > > PK > > > > > in > > > > > > > > 12th > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > > AK, > > > > > > > > > > > > > surely it doesnt mean that the mother's > > > conscious > > > > > > > attitude > > > > > > > > > > > toward > > > > > > > > > > > > > her children is of " giving up " ? Because that > > > > doesnt > > > > > > seem > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > case. Or does it mean that that is the > Atma's > > > > > attitude > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > since > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > Atma is deeper than the conscious mind, it > > might > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > > > > create > > > > > > > > > > > > > situations in which the children are forced > to > > > be > > > > > > given > > > > > > > > up? > > > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > real question is - how exactly, or at what > > level > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > experience, > > > > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > > > > > you interpret charakarakas position relative > > to > > > > each > > > > > > > > other? > > > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > > > > AK > > > > > > > > > > > > > and AmK are together, how exactly does it > > create > > > > > > > Rajayoga? > > > > > > > > > To > > > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > > > the CK principle clearer, could you contrast > > it > > > > > with, > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > example, > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10L in the 1st house, and also with 10L with > > the > > > > > Moon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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