Mathematical Correctness of BTR theories

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Dear TinWin,

 

Please see the message ID No.28959.

/message/28959

 

With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.

 

Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.

 

GOOD LUCK!

 

D.Senthil

 

--- On Wed, 11/4/09, TW <tw853 wrote:

TW <tw853 Re: Why Shri KN Rao's Double Transit doesn't make sense Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 8:22 PM

Dear Friends,Some are using the following mathematically incorrect BTR method although Guruji KSK had clearly said to use only the RPs in birth time rectification.Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.doc Explanation of the Test Results (in File section)To find birth time--- only the Ruling Planets at the moment of judgment will be useful and innumerable instances are given in the magazine "Astrology & Athrishta."-KP Reader VI page 138 (any edition)-- our beloved Guruji had found and was correct to tell that the RPs alone can be well used for the rectification of birth time in charts.-Prof. Vikari Ramamurthy in KPE-zine Nov 2009Regards,TW@gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Mssumich,> > Please note few points

-> > 1. A method needs to be mathematically correct first before we can talk> about predictive aspect of the method. As I mentioned this method is> fundamentally flawed and doesn't make sense. I have mentioned the reason and> would love to hear if somebody can show that I am missing something.> > 2. Double transit, as mentioned by Paul Manley, is different from what Shri> KN Rao has used in his books. By Double-Transit, Shri KN Rao doesn't mean> that both the planet should aspect one single sign, but one planet aspecting> the house and other house lord (generally). As I demonstrated, this> condition will match almost 100% of time and hence it makes this tool a good> tool for post-mortem and justification. Though not useful for predictions.> > 3. If a method doesn't work, we should leave it and move on. If we will not> accept that the method doesn't

make sense, we can not discard it. By saying> something like "we need to check dasa and yoga etc.", we want to prove it> some way or other. Why? If it doens't work, it doesn't work. We should not> accpet anything blindly. There are quite a few teachings by Shri KN Rao that> works and we should use them. Teachings that do not work, we should discard> them.> > 4. I don not understand why you are mixing placidus with double-transit. Let> us not mix both the threads. Though i guess that the way you asked your> earlier question was not good for generating discussion. In my opinion,> correct way for asking question is to present your own analysis and ask your> question. If you are learner, you should present your detailed analysis.> What is your analysis as per KP? What is your analysis as per Traditional?> Saying that I am able to justify events using Traditional but

not KP seems> too vague a statement. I do not see reference of Sub in your post. I don't> see reference of Nakshatra in your post. That doesn't qualify as a KP> analysis and hence doesn't provoke any response. This I guess may be the> reason you didn't get response.> > Thanks & Regards,> Punit Pandey> > On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 9:45 PM, mssumich mssumich wrote:> > >> >> > Hi Punit> > Like many of the 100s of tools that Jyotish gives - don't believe in all> > the techniques that one comes up with. From Paul Manley's website here is> > what he says> > "What you'll see in the following illustrations is how the sign(s) that> > gets the double transit will shift, generally from year to year. In fact,> > there are only two positions of Jupiter and Saturn that will not have the> > double

transit phenomenon – when Jupiter is in the 8th or 12th house from> > Saturn. This means that 10 out of the 12 possible positions, or more than> > 80% of the time, there will be the double transit phenomenon happening in at> > least one sign, possibly two."> >> > I have see this double transit work sometimes and sometimes not. Obviuosly> > we have to pay attention to sookshma transits (or finer transits) and just> > double transit.> >> > I urge some expert to answer my question on the Placidus house system for a> > chart that I put on the other day. One bhava covers 58 deg of zodiac, there> > are 3 planets in 8th house; This person is very succesful. I can explain> > every event using vedic astreology and nakshatra analysis. The moment I put> > 3 planets in 8th in this chart, I am lost.> >> > For

latititude that are closer to 66 deg N or S - I believe the Placidus> > system of houses give wierd house cusps(correct me if I am wrong). This> > actor was born in Scotland where latitude in 55deg. My question is for> > people born in such norhtern altitudes -what system works? Is it still> > Placidus wasy of calculating houses or something else. There should a clear> > answer from KP experts. I am hoping there is that person in this list.> > thanks> >> >> > @gro ups.com <%40g roups.com>, Punit> > Pandey punitp@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Friends,> > >> > > KP made timing an event much more easier. Though as a KP astrologer, I> > > always feel that it will be nice to have another complementary method by> > > which we can cross-check and

confirm. In search of another such method> > for> > > timing events, I looked into many methods and Shri KN Rao's double> > transit> > > is among them.> > >> > > I personally feel that it is merely a tool for post-mortem and not useful> > > for future predictions. Let us take an example of Marriage.> > Double-transit> > > suggests that transiting Jupiter and Saturn will always be aspecting> > Natal> > > 7th and 7th lord at the time of marriage.> > >> > > Now Jupiter has three aspects - 5,7, and 9. So including its own> > position,> > > it will be influencing four houses in any chart. Which means that at any> > > point of time the possibility of aspecting 7th is 33.33% and 7th lord is> > > also 33.33%. If we take Jupiter's influence on either 7th OR

7th lord,> > > possibility will double from 4/12 to 8/12 or 66.66%. So at any time, we> > have> > > 66.66% possibility of Jupiter aspecting either 7th or 7th lord. In other> > > words, around 66% of time in one's life, we will see that Jupiter is> > > influencing either 7th or 7th. Of course, this calculation doesn't> > consider> > > some of the possibility e.g. 7th lord is in 7th house itself. Anyways, I> > > have seen Shri KN Rao is also checking Moon for transit other than> > > Ascendant. Which doubles the possibility and if somehow Jupiter is not> > > aspecting 7th and 7th lord counting from Lagna, it will aspect 7th or 7th> > > lord from Moon. So in any point of one's life, if take transit from Moon> > as> > > well as Ascendant, it is almost certain that Jupiter will influencing> >

either> > > 7th from ascendant, or 7th lord from ascendant, or 7th from Moon, or 7th> > > lord from Moon.> > >> > > Similarly, Saturn also has 3 aspects and the above write-up is true for> > > Saturn as well. In other words, seeing the above possibility, I feel that> > > Double-Transit doesn't make sense at all.> > >> > > To sound this method sensible and experimental purpose, I checked> > reducing> > > the possibility by checking transit only from Ascendant. If I do that> > way, I> > > have many cases where it fails.> > >> > > In other words, I do not find Double-transit theory useful at all.> > >> > > Thanks & Regards,> > >> > > Punit Pandey> > >> > >> > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 2:06

PM, aashish rai raiaashish@ wrote:> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Sundar,> > > >> > > > In classical astrology there are so many dashas, if vimshottari was> > only> > > > required than why did Parashara muni talked about so many dashas. Other> > > > dashas like Yogini are showing it.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Let's forget about DBAs for time being as per double transit theory of> > Shri> > > > Kn rao marriage chances are high when transit Saturn and Jupiter aspect> > > > natal 1/7 axis or their natal lords. In rare cases 9th lord will be> > > > involved.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Natal chart,> > > >> > >

> Jupier is aspecting natal 7th lord, lagna lord and Lagna> > > >> > > > Saturn is sitting in Lagna itself, aspecting 7th house> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Won't be surprised if there is a child birth/pregency before end august> > > > 2010 !!!> > > >> > > > Regards,> > > > Aashish> > > >> > > > ------------ --------- ---------> > > > ** Sundar sundar190561@> > > >> > > > *To:* @gro ups.com <%40g roups.com>> >> > > > *Sent:* Wed, 4 November, 2009 10:31:33 AM> > > > *Subject:* Re: Post mortem analysis of marriage> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >

> Dear Aashish> > > >> > > > I know you would say, venus is the UL lord, hence the marriage in venus> > > > PAD. But did you see venus was debilitated on the day of marriage?> > > >> > > > Thanks...... ....Sundar> > > >> > > > @gro ups.com <%40g roups.com>,> > aashish> >> > > > rai <raiaashish@ ...> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Sundarji,> > > > > I have just started learning KP and yet to pick up the basics. but if> > you> > > > use traditional astrology it's very clear. As this forum is for KP only> > I am> > > > not elaborating.> > > > >> > > > > Regards,> > > > > Aashish> > >

> >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > > > > Sundar <sundar190561@ ...>> > > > > @gro ups.com <%40g roups.com>> >> > > >> > > > > Sun, 1 November, 2009 10:59:22 PM> > > > > Post mortem analysis of marriage> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Dear Learned members> > > > >> > > > > My neighbour go married on 21st Oct, 2009 between 9 to 10am. The> > transit> > > > of DBAS does not fully signify the event fully.> > > > >> > > > > dob: 25th Aug, 1979>

> > > > tob: 9.37 (rectified)> > > > > pob: Mumbai> > > > >> > > > > Time of birth reported is 9.22am> > > > > Ayanamsha : 23.28.58> > > > >> > > > > dasha/bukti/ antra> > > > >> > > > > planet sgl stl sl> > > > > (MD)rahu(11) sun(11,12) venus(11,2-9) venus(11,2-9)> > > > > (AD)ketu(5) sat(12,5-6) rahu(11) venus(11,2-9)> > > > > (PAD)venus(11, 2-9) sun(11,12) ketu(5) jupiter(11,4- 7)> > > > >> > > > > rahu=sun(11, 12)> > > > > ketu=saturn( 12,5-6)> > > > >> > > > > Marriage on 21st October 2009 between 9 am to 10 am> > > > >> > > > > planet sgl stl sl> > > > > (MD)rahu(4) sat(12,5-6)

sun(1,12) jupiter(5,4- 7)> > > > > (AD)ketu(10) moon(2,11) jupiter(5,4- 7) rahu-MD(4)> > > > > (PAD)venus(12, 2-9) mer(1,1-10) moon(2,11) rahu-MD(4)> > > > >> > > > > sun venus(12,2-9) mars(10,3-8) venus(12,2-9)> > > > > moon mars(10,3-8) sat(12,5-6) venus(12,2-9)> > > > >> > > > > Baed on the above it is seen that MD/AD/PAD does not fully signify> > DBAS> > > > (except for ketu, which is rahu's sub.> > > > >> > > > > In the light of the above how do we reconcile the timing of marriage.> > > > >> > > > > Thanks...... ...Sundar> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Keep up with people you care

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