BTR Theory

[Guest guest]

Dear Santhosh

Cold logic alone,supports the view that only the mother knows for sure as to who is the Father of her child...! !

It would'nt it therefore be very logical to prefer to take the mother's Vth cusp...

With best wishes,

Yogesh Lajmi.

GOOD LUCK !

santhosh10 <santhosh10Re: Re: BTR Theory Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 2:46 PM

Dear vijay, thats an unnecessary controversy. Both mother and father are equally responsible. Ur view isnt supported in any scripture. Hence you should take fourth house also, just as you take 9th house.ThanksSanthosh

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"vijay.goel" <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:31:01 -0000

<@gro ups.com>

Re: BTR Theory

Respected members,On BTR method:Since the birth of a child takes place when the father of the child runs the joint period of Planets that are fruitful significators of 2,5 and 11 we say that the Ascdt of the child should be co-ruled by Planets that are linked to 10,5 and 7 houses (i.e 2,5,and 11 from 9). I took father because he is mainly responsible for the seed and gender of the child.Did we had the discussion on this concept earlier, did we applied and checked the validity of above statement, is it logically correct as per KP methods to apply it. ???Just a curiocity !Thankyou,Best Wishes,Vijay GoelJaipur@gro ups.com, "TW" <tw853 wrote:>> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 26419> > > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash

Ghosh" suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> >> > I think Lajmiji's point is very easy to verify by being present at any Nursing Home and noting down the time of First Cry. The clock must be a digital one and tuned to atomic clock. 3-4 cases are sufficient to have a first cut idea. Any doc in this forum to help?> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:39 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > > > The topic is closed because there were no fresh ideas. We were not heading anywhere due to very limited participation. What we were seeing was 'repeatation' of whatever was already said. > >

> > If there is something new and fresh, please feel free to start a new topic. We must always remember that is is never possible that all accept our points. Acceptation of rejection is one's own choice. What most we can do is put our point best of our understanding. Truly speaking, I myself lost interest in this topic, because every time we are discussing the same point for few years now and without any method of concluding anything. Probably we need to give more emphasis to event verification for the rectified time. That seems the only method to decide in such a situation. > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Suprakash Ghosh suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> > > > > >  > > > > Dear Punitji> > > > I personally feel that Senthilji has

valid logic. On the other hand Lajmiji has his experience. We have to meet the both ends. for that we need research and case study. Who else other than us can find a good theory with valid logic? Remember KSk was always for logical thinking.> > I think it is not wise to close the topic. It may generate heat..but that is a healthy sign .. solution comes from conflct...not bypassing it.> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > - > > Senthil > > @gro ups.com > > Cc: rathluther@ > > Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:05 AM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath, > > > > > > Further to my E-mail below I would like to add some more points. I have taken the whole zodiac (360 Degree) and worked

out the total Degree occupied by the each SUB lords. Which is actually equal to the respective planet’s Vimshotri Year x 3 (=Vimshotri Year /120 x 360 Deg). > > > > > > Ascendant> > SUB> > LORD> > Total Birth > > Zone> > (Degree)> > Total No > > Birth Zone> > (Degree)> > Total Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > Total No Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > > > KET> > 21> > 339> > 1:24> > 22:36> > > > VEN> > 60> > 300> > 4:00> > 20:00> > > > SUN> > 18> > 342> > 1:12> > 22:48> > > > MOO> > 30> > 330> > 2:00> > 22:00> > > > MAR> > 21> > 339> >

1:24> > 22:36> > > > RAH> > 54> > 306> > 3:36> > 20:24> > > > JUP> > 48> > 312> > 3:12> > 20:48> > > > SAT> > 57> > 303> > 3:48> > 20:12> > > > MER> > 51> > 309> > 3:24> > 20:36> > > > > > > > > > > > For example if you take SUN sub, it is occupied in the different Sign, Star of the zodiac whose total degree workout to 18 Degree. This means that the total possible childbirth Zone (Ascendant movement zone) is 18 Degree only (1Hr: 12min). So the balance 342 Degree in the zodiac can be called as total NO BIRTH ZONE (Here No birth Zone word is appropriate instead of calling it as barren Zone which will confuse more) the corresponding total NO BIRTH TIME

ZONE works out to (22Hr: 48min). > > > > > > If you consider the MOON motion per day it varies from 11 Degree to 15 Degree depending upon the Sign, Star in which it is transiting. Suppose the MOON motion is 11Degree in a particular day who’s constellation is SUN then the MOON will take approximately 29 Hours to complete the Transit over SUN star. So the one full movement of ascendant will happen in 24 hours plus 5 hours in the next day also. Within these 5 hours the approximate movement of ascendant will 70 Degree (at the rate of 1 deg for 4 min). During this time the BIRTH ZONE(total) works out to 3Degree 20minute only (0Hr: 13min: 20Sec assuming that the ascendant transit happens from Zero Degree Aries to 15 Degree Gemini). So the balance 71Degree 40Minute in the zodiac the ascendant will transit again in NO BIRTH ZONE(total) corresponding NO BIRTH TIME ZONE(total) works out to 4Hr: 46min: 40Sec. > >

> > > > Within 29 hours block time (worst case) as a total the NO BIRTH TIME ZONE and BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (27Hr: 34min: 40Sec) and (1Hr: 25min: 20Sec) respectively. Kindly note that in this case the NATAL MOON position and the Ascendant need not be in closer range/orb and the Ascendant can be anywhere in the zodiac. So if the MOON is in SUN star, In this world no birth should happen for about 27Hr: 34min: 40Sec(as a total not consecutive time) out of 29 hours block time. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT/IMPOSSIBL E. THERE ARE AMPLE NO OF CHANCES THAT THE CHILDBIRTH CAN HAPPEN DURING THIS TIME INTERVAL AROUND THE WORLD AT SOMEWHERE AT SOME PLACE WHO’S ASCENDANT CAN BE IN THE NO BIRTH ZONE ALSO. SO NOW YOU CAN DECIDE THE RULE IS ACCEPTABLE OR NOT!!!!!!! > > > > > > GOOD LUCK! > > > > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09,

Senthil athi_ram@ wrote:> > > > > > Senthil athi_ram@> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Cc: rathluther@> > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 9:21 AM> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below.> > > > > > Hr.No. > > > > > > RASI > > > > > > Sgn > > > > > > Str > > > > > > Sub > > > > > > Degree> > Diff.> > > > 1> > RA1> >

MAR> > KET> > KET> > 000:00:00> > > > > > 2> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > VEN> > 000:46:40> > > > > > 3> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SUN> > 003:00:00> > > > > > 4> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MOO> > 003:40:00> > > > > > 5> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MAR> > 004:46:40> > > > > > 6> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > RAH> > 005:33:20> > 011:26:40> > > > 7> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > JUP> > 007:33:20> > > > > > 8> > RA1> > MAR> >

KET> > SAT> > 009:20:00> > > > > > 9> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MER> > 011:26:40> > > > > > 10> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > VEN> > 013:20:00> > > > > > 11> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SUN> > 015:33:20> > > > > > 12> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MOO> > 016:13:20> > > > > > 13> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MAR> > 017:20:00> > > > > > 14> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > RAH> > 018:06:40> > 012:33:20> > > > 15> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN>

> JUP> > 020:06:40> > > > > > 16> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SAT> > 021:53:20> > > > > > 17> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MER> > 024:00:00> > > > > > 18> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > KET> > 025:53:20> > > > > > 19> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > SUN> > 026:40:00> > > > > > 20> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MOO> > 027:20:00> > > > > > 21> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MAR> > 028:26:40> > > > > > 22> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > RAH> >

029:13:20> > 011:06:40> > > > 23> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > RAH> > 030:00:00> > > > > > 24> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > JUP> > 031:13:20> > > > > > 25> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > SAT> > 033:00:00> > > > > > 26> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > MER> > 035:06:40> > > > > > 27> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > KET> > 037:00:00> > > > > > 28> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > VEN> > 037:46:40> > > > > > 29> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MOO> >

040:00:00> > > > > > 30> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MAR> > 041:06:40> > > > > > 31> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > RAH> > 041:53:20> > 011:53:20> > > > 32> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > JUP> > 043:53:20> > > > > > 33> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SAT> > 045:40:00> > > > > > 34> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MER> > 047:46:40> > > > > > 35> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > KET> > 049:40:00> > > > > > 36> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > VEN> >

050:26:40> > > > > > 37> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SUN> > 052:40:00> > > > > > 38> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > MAR> > 053:20:00> > > > > > 39> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > RAH> > 054:06:40> > 012:13:20> > > > 40> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > JUP> > 056:06:40> > > > > > 41> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > SAT> > 057:53:20> > > > > > 42> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MER> > 060:00:00> > > > > > 43> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > KET> >

061:53:20> > > > > > 44> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > VEN> > 062:40:00> > > > > > 45> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > SUN> > 064:53:20> > > > > > 46> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MOO> > 065:33:20> > > > > > 47> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > RAH> > 066:40:00> > 012:33:20> > > > 48> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > JUP> > 068:40:00> > > > > > 49> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SAT> > 070:26:40> > > > > > 50> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MER> >

072:33:20> > > > > > 51> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > KET> > 074:26:40> > > > > > 52> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > VEN> > 075:13:20> > > > > > 53> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SUN> > 077:26:40> > > > > > 54> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MOO> > 078:06:40> > > > > > 55> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MAR> > 079:13:20> > > > > > 56> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > JUP> > 080:00:00> > > > > > 57> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SAT> > 081:46:40> >

> > > > 58> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MER> > 083:53:20> > > > > > 59> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > KET> > 085:46:40> > > > > > 60> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > VEN> > 086:33:20> > > > > > 61> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SUN> > 088:46:40> > > > > > 62> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MOO> > 089:26:40> > > > > > 63> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MOO> > 090:00:00> > > > > > 64> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MAR> > 090:33:20> > > > >

> 65> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > RAH> > 091:20:00> > 024:40:00> > > > 66> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SAT> > 093:20:00> > > > > > 67> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MER> > 095:26:40> > > > > > 68> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > KET> > 097:20:00> > > > > > 69> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > VEN> > 098:06:40> > > > > > 70> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SUN> > 100:20:00> > > > > > 71> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MOO> > 101:00:00> > > > > >

72> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MAR> > 102:06:40> > > > > > 73> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > RAH> > 102:53:20> > 011:33:20> > > > 74> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > JUP> > 104:53:20> > > > > > 75> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MER> > 106:40:00> > > > > > 76> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > KET> > 108:33:20> > > > > > 77> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > VEN> > 109:20:00> > > > > > 78> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SUN> > 111:33:20> > > > > > 79>

> RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MOO> > 112:13:20> > > > > > 80> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MAR> > 113:20:00> > > > > > 81> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > RAH> > 114:06:40> > 011:13:20> > > > 82> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > JUP> > 116:06:40> > > > > > 83> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SAT> > 117:53:20> > > > > > > > > > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive

occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbirth around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that

the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > > > > > > Sir, > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should

take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > Capricorn 24-06-40> > Aquarius 6-40-00> > Pisces 1-20-00> > Pisces 12-53-20> > Pisces 24-06-40> > Aries 5-33-20> > Aries 18-06-40> > Aries 29-13-20> > Taurus 11-53-20> > Taurus 24-06-40> > Gemini 6-40-00> > Cancer 1-20-00> > Cancer 24-06-40> > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule.> >

Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> > Senthil athi_ram >> > @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro

ups.com> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --> > Senthil athi_ram >> > mssumich mssumich >> > Cc: @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > Re: BTR Theory> > >

> > > Dear MS.> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics.> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009 = 353,015 births > > =14708.95833 per hour> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich

mssumich > wrote:> > > > > > mssumich mssumich >> > BTR Theory> > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > Thanks> > MS> > > > > > > > > > Dear TinWin,> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > > With the simple logical

calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> >>

[Guest guest]

Respected Yogeshji,//It is safer,and better to take the mother...because only the mother knows who the real father is... !//Do you mean to say that : Ascdt of the child should be co-ruled by Planets that are linked to 5,8 and 2 houses (i.e 2,5,and 11 from 4)Please confirm it.Thanking you,Regards,Vijay GoelJaipur. , Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote:>> Dear Vijay,>                It is safer,and better to take the mother...because only the mother knows who the real father is... !>                With best wishes,>                Yogesh Lajmi> > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, vijay.goel goyalvj wrote:> > > vijay.goel goyalvj Re: BTR Theory> > Thursday, November 12, 2009, 11:31 AM> > >  > > > > Respected members,> > On BTR method:> > Since the birth of a child takes place when the father of the child runs the joint period of Planets that are fruitful significators of 2,5 and 11 we say that the Ascdt of the child should be co-ruled by Planets that are linked to 10,5 and 7 houses (i.e 2,5,and 11 from 9). > > I took father because he is mainly responsible for the seed and gender of the child.> > Did we had the discussion on this concept earlier, did we applied and checked the validity of above statement, is it logically correct as per KP methods to apply it. ???> > Just a curiocity !> > Thankyou,> Best Wishes,> Vijay Goel> Jaipur> > @gro ups.com, "TW" tw853@ wrote:> >> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 26419> > > > > > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh" suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> > >> > > I think Lajmiji's point is very easy to verify by being present at any Nursing Home and noting down the time of First Cry. The clock must be a digital one and tuned to atomic clock. 3-4 cases are sufficient to have a first cut idea. Any doc in this forum to help?> > > > > > Regards> > > > > > Suprakash> > > > > > > > > - > > > Punit Pandey > > > @gro ups.com > > > Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:39 PM> > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > > > > > The topic is closed because there were no fresh ideas. We were not heading anywhere due to very limited participation. What we were seeing was 'repeatation' of whatever was already said. > > > > > > If there is something new and fresh, please feel free to start a new topic. We must always remember that is is never possible that all accept our points. Acceptation of rejection is one's own choice. What most we can do is put our point best of our understanding. Truly speaking, I myself lost interest in this topic, because every time we are discussing the same point for few years now and without any method of concluding anything. Probably we need to give more emphasis to event verification for the rectified time. That seems the only method to decide in such a situation. > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Suprakash Ghosh suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > Dear Punitji> > > > > > I personally feel that Senthilji has valid logic. On the other hand Lajmiji has his experience. We have to meet the both ends. for that we need research and case study. Who else other than us can find a good theory with valid logic? Remember KSk was always for logical thinking.> > > I think it is not wise to close the topic. It may generate heat..but that is a healthy sign .. solution comes from conflct...not bypassing it.> > > > > > Regards> > > > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > > Senthil > > > @gro ups.com > > > Cc: rathluther@ > > > Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:05 AM> > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath, > > > > > > > > > Further to my E-mail below I would like to add some more points. I have taken the whole zodiac (360 Degree) and worked out the total Degree occupied by the each SUB lords. Which is actually equal to the respective planet’s Vimshotri Year x 3 (=Vimshotri Year /120 x 360 Deg). > > > > > > > > > Ascendant> > > SUB> > > LORD> > > Total Birth > > > Zone> > > (Degree)> > > Total No > > > Birth Zone> > > (Degree)> > > Total Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > > Total No Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > > > > > KET> > > 21> > > 339> > > 1:24> > > 22:36> > > > > > VEN> > > 60> > > 300> > > 4:00> > > 20:00> > > > > > SUN> > > 18> > > 342> > > 1:12> > > 22:48> > > > > > MOO> > > 30> > > 330> > > 2:00> > > 22:00> > > > > > MAR> > > 21> > > 339> > > 1:24> > > 22:36> > > > > > RAH> > > 54> > > 306> > > 3:36> > > 20:24> > > > > > JUP> > > 48> > > 312> > > 3:12> > > 20:48> > > > > > SAT> > > 57> > > 303> > > 3:48> > > 20:12> > > > > > MER> > > 51> > > 309> > > 3:24> > > 20:36> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example if you take SUN sub, it is occupied in the different Sign, Star of the zodiac whose total degree workout to 18 Degree. This means that the total possible childbirth Zone (Ascendant movement zone) is 18 Degree only (1Hr: 12min). So the balance 342 Degree in the zodiac can be called as total NO BIRTH ZONE (Here No birth Zone word is appropriate instead of calling it as barren Zone which will confuse more) the corresponding total NO BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (22Hr: 48min). > > > > > > > > > If you consider the MOON motion per day it varies from 11 Degree to 15 Degree depending upon the Sign, Star in which it is transiting. Suppose the MOON motion is 11Degree in a particular day who’s constellation is SUN then the MOON will take approximately 29 Hours to complete the Transit over SUN star. So the one full movement of ascendant will happen in 24 hours plus 5 hours in the next day also. Within these 5 hours the approximate movement of ascendant will 70 Degree (at the rate of 1 deg for 4 min). During this time the BIRTH ZONE(total) works out to 3Degree 20minute only (0Hr: 13min: 20Sec assuming that the ascendant transit happens from Zero Degree Aries to 15 Degree Gemini). So the balance 71Degree 40Minute in the zodiac the ascendant will transit again in NO BIRTH ZONE(total) corresponding NO BIRTH TIME ZONE(total) works out to 4Hr: 46min: 40Sec. > > > > > > > > > Within 29 hours block time (worst case) as a total the NO BIRTH TIME ZONE and BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (27Hr: 34min: 40Sec) and (1Hr: 25min: 20Sec) respectively. Kindly note that in this case the NATAL MOON position and the Ascendant need not be in closer range/orb and the Ascendant can be anywhere in the zodiac. So if the MOON is in SUN star, In this world no birth should happen for about 27Hr: 34min: 40Sec(as a total not consecutive time) out of 29 hours block time. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT/IMPOSSIBL E. THERE ARE AMPLE NO OF CHANCES THAT THE CHILDBIRTH CAN HAPPEN DURING THIS TIME INTERVAL AROUND THE WORLD AT SOMEWHERE AT SOME PLACE WHO’S ASCENDANT CAN BE IN THE NO BIRTH ZONE ALSO. SO NOW YOU CAN DECIDE THE RULE IS ACCEPTABLE OR NOT!!!!!!! > > > > > > > > > GOOD LUCK! > > > > > > > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > Senthil athi_ram@> > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > @gro ups.com> > > Cc: rathluther@> > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 9:21 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below.> > > > > > > > > Hr.No. > > > > > > > > > RASI > > > > > > > > > Sgn > > > > > > > > > Str > > > > > > > > > Sub > > > > > > > > > Degree> > > Diff.> > > > > > 1> > > RA1> > > MAR> > > KET> > > KET> > > 000:00:00> > > > > > > > > 2> > > RA1> > > MAR> > > KET> > > VEN> > > 000:46:40> > > > > > > > > 3> > > RA1> > > MAR> > > KET> > > SUN> > > 003:00:00> > > > > > > > > 4> > > RA1> > > MAR> > > KET> > > MOO> > > 003:40:00> > > > > > > > > 5> > > RA1> > > MAR> > > KET> > > MAR> > > 004:46:40> > > > > > > > > 6> > > RA1> > > MAR> > > KET> > > RAH> > > 005:33:20> > > 011:26:40> > > > > > 7> > > RA1> > > MAR> > > KET> > > JUP> > > 007:33:20> > > > > > > > > 8> > > RA1> > > MAR> > > KET> > > SAT> > > 009:20:00> > > > > > > > > 9> > > RA1> > > MAR> > > KET> > > MER> > > 011:26:40> > > > > > > > > 10> > > RA1> > > MAR> > > VEN> > > VEN> > > 013:20:00> > > > > > > > > 11> > > RA1> > > MAR> > > VEN> > > SUN> > > 015:33:20> > > > > > > > > 12> > > RA1> > > MAR> > > VEN> > > MOO> > > 016:13:20> > > > > > > > > 13> > > RA1> > > MAR> > > VEN> > > MAR> > > 017:20:00> > > > > > > > > 14> > > RA1> > > MAR> > > VEN> > > RAH> > > 018:06:40> > > 012:33:20> > > > > > 15> > > RA1> > > MAR> > > VEN> > > JUP> > > 020:06:40> > > > > > > > > 16> > > RA1> > > MAR> > > VEN> > > SAT> > > 021:53:20> > > > > > > > > 17> > > RA1> > > MAR> > > VEN> > > MER> > > 024:00:00> > > > > > > > > 18> > > RA1> > > MAR> > > VEN> > > KET> > > 025:53:20> > > > > > > > > 19> > > RA1> > > MAR> > > SUN> > > SUN> > > 026:40:00> > > > > > > > > 20> > > RA1> > > MAR> > > SUN> > > MOO> > > 027:20:00> > > > > > > > > 21> > > RA1> > > MAR> > > SUN> > > MAR> > > 028:26:40> > > > > > > > > 22> > > RA1> > > MAR> > > SUN> > > RAH> > > 029:13:20> > > 011:06:40> > > > > > 23> > > RA2> > > VEN> > > SUN> > > RAH> > > 030:00:00> > > > > > > > > 24> > > RA2> > > VEN> > > SUN> > > JUP> > > 031:13:20> > > > > > > > > 25> > > RA2> > > VEN> > > SUN> > > SAT> > > 033:00:00> > > > > > > > > 26> > > RA2> > > VEN> > > SUN> > > MER> > > 035:06:40> > > > > > > > > 27> > > RA2> > > VEN> > > SUN> > > KET> > > 037:00:00> > > > > > > > > 28> > > RA2> > > VEN> > > SUN> > > VEN> > > 037:46:40> > > > > > > > > 29> > > RA2> > > VEN> > > MOO> > > MOO> > > 040:00:00> > > > > > > > > 30> > > RA2> > > VEN> > > MOO> > > MAR> > > 041:06:40> > > > > > > > > 31> > > RA2> > > VEN> > > MOO> > > RAH> > > 041:53:20> > > 011:53:20> > > > > > 32> > > RA2> > > VEN> > > MOO> > > JUP> > > 043:53:20> > > > > > > > > 33> > > RA2> > > VEN> > > MOO> > > SAT> > > 045:40:00> > > > > > > > > 34> > > RA2> > > VEN> > > MOO> > > MER> > > 047:46:40> > > > > > > > > 35> > > RA2> > > VEN> > > MOO> > > KET> > > 049:40:00> > > > > > > > > 36> > > RA2> > > VEN> > > MOO> > > VEN> > > 050:26:40> > > > > > > > > 37> > > RA2> > > VEN> > > MOO> > > SUN> > > 052:40:00> > > > > > > > > 38> > > RA2> > > VEN> > > MAR> > > MAR> > > 053:20:00> > > > > > > > > 39> > > RA2> > > VEN> > > MAR> > > RAH> > > 054:06:40> > > 012:13:20> > > > > > 40> > > RA2> > > VEN> > > MAR> > > JUP> > > 056:06:40> > > > > > > > > 41> > > RA2> > > VEN> > > MAR> > > SAT> > > 057:53:20> > > > > > > > > 42> > > RA3> > > MER> > > MAR> > > MER> > > 060:00:00> > > > > > > > > 43> > > RA3> > > MER> > > MAR> > > KET> > > 061:53:20> > > > > > > > > 44> > > RA3> > > MER> > > MAR> > > VEN> > > 062:40:00> > > > > > > > > 45> > > RA3> > > MER> > > MAR> > > SUN> > > 064:53:20> > > > > > > > > 46> > > RA3> > > MER> > > MAR> > > MOO> > > 065:33:20> > > > > > > > > 47> > > RA3> > > MER> > > RAH> > > RAH> > > 066:40:00> > > 012:33:20> > > > > > 48> > > RA3> > > MER> > > RAH> > > JUP> > > 068:40:00> > > > > > > > > 49> > > RA3> > > MER> > > RAH> > > SAT> > > 070:26:40> > > > > > > > > 50> > > RA3> > > MER> > > RAH> > > MER> > > 072:33:20> > > > > > > > > 51> > > RA3> > > MER> > > RAH> > > KET> > > 074:26:40> > > > > > > > > 52> > > RA3> > > MER> > > RAH> > > VEN> > > 075:13:20> > > > > > > > > 53> > > RA3> > > MER> > > RAH> > > SUN> > > 077:26:40> > > > > > > > > 54> > > RA3> > > MER> > > RAH> > > MOO> > > 078:06:40> > > > > > > > > 55> > > RA3> > > MER> > > RAH> > > MAR> > > 079:13:20> > > > > > > > > 56> > > RA3> > > MER> > > JUP> > > JUP> > > 080:00:00> > > > > > > > > 57> > > RA3> > > MER> > > JUP> > > SAT> > > 081:46:40> > > > > > > > > 58> > > RA3> > > MER> > > JUP> > > MER> > > 083:53:20> > > > > > > > > 59> > > RA3> > > MER> > > JUP> > > KET> > > 085:46:40> > > > > > > > > 60> > > RA3> > > MER> > > JUP> > > VEN> > > 086:33:20> > > > > > > > > 61> > > RA3> > > MER> > > JUP> > > SUN> > > 088:46:40> > > > > > > > > 62> > > RA3> > > MER> > > JUP> > > MOO> > > 089:26:40> > > > > > > > > 63> > > RA4> > > MOO> > > JUP> > > MOO> > > 090:00:00> > > > > > > > > 64> > > RA4> > > MOO> > > JUP> > > MAR> > > 090:33:20> > > > > > > > > 65> > > RA4> > > MOO> > > JUP> > > RAH> > > 091:20:00> > > 024:40:00> > > > > > 66> > > RA4> > > MOO> > > SAT> > > SAT> > > 093:20:00> > > > > > > > > 67> > > RA4> > > MOO> > > SAT> > > MER> > > 095:26:40> > > > > > > > > 68> > > RA4> > > MOO> > > SAT> > > KET> > > 097:20:00> > > > > > > > > 69> > > RA4> > > MOO> > > SAT> > > VEN> > > 098:06:40> > > > > > > > > 70> > > RA4> > > MOO> > > SAT> > > SUN> > > 100:20:00> > > > > > > > > 71> > > RA4> > > MOO> > > SAT> > > MOO> > > 101:00:00> > > > > > > > > 72> > > RA4> > > MOO> > > SAT> > > MAR> > > 102:06:40> > > > > > > > > 73> > > RA4> > > MOO> > > SAT> > > RAH> > > 102:53:20> > > 011:33:20> > > > > > 74> > > RA4> > > MOO> > > SAT> > > JUP> > > 104:53:20> > > > > > > > > 75> > > RA4> > > MOO> > > MER> > > MER> > > 106:40:00> > > > > > > > > 76> > > RA4> > > MOO> > > MER> > > KET> > > 108:33:20> > > > > > > > > 77> > > RA4> > > MOO> > > MER> > > VEN> > > 109:20:00> > > > > > > > > 78> > > RA4> > > MOO> > > MER> > > SUN> > > 111:33:20> > > > > > > > > 79> > > RA4> > > MOO> > > MER> > > MOO> > > 112:13:20> > > > > > > > > 80> > > RA4> > > MOO> > > MER> > > MAR> > > 113:20:00> > > > > > > > > 81> > > RA4> > > MOO> > > MER> > > RAH> > > 114:06:40> > > 011:13:20> > > > > > 82> > > RA4> > > MOO> > > MER> > > JUP> > > 116:06:40> > > > > > > > > 83> > > RA4> > > MOO> > > MER> > > SAT> > > 117:53:20> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbirth around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > @gro ups.com> > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, > > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > > Capricorn 24-06-40> > > Aquarius 6-40-00> > > Pisces 1-20-00> > > Pisces 12-53-20> > > Pisces 24-06-40> > > Aries 5-33-20> > > Aries 18-06-40> > > Aries 29-13-20> > > Taurus 11-53-20> > > Taurus 24-06-40> > > Gemini 6-40-00> > > Cancer 1-20-00> > > Cancer 24-06-40> > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule.> > > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > @gro ups.com> > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > > > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > @gro ups.com> > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --> > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > mssumich mssumich >> > > Cc: @gro ups.com> > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > > Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > > Dear MS.> > > > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics.> > > > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > > > No of birth per day in year 2009 = 353,015 births > > > =14708.95833 per hour> > > = 245.1493056 per minute> > > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > > > > > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > BTR Theory> > > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > > > > > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.> > > > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > > Thanks> > > MS> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear TinWin,> > > > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.> > > > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > > > D.Senthil> > >> >>

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Yogeshji, when u look at it so coldly, i think i should agree will agree with you. Anyway, since thats not always the case, i believe it wont be a bad idea to check fathers 5th house with childs 9th house.Best wishes SanthoshSent from BlackBerry® on Airtel Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmiThu, 12 Nov 2009 22:44:58 -0800 (PST)Cc: <Santhosh10Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear Santhosh Cold logic alone,supports the view that only the mother knows for sure as to who is the Father of her child...! ! It would'nt it therefore be very logical to prefer to take the mother's Vth cusp... With best wishes, Yogesh Lajmi. GOOD LUCK !santhosh10 <santhosh10 >Re: Re: BTR Theory Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 2:46 PM Dear vijay, thats an unnecessary controversy. Both mother and father are equally responsible. Ur view isnt supported in any scripture. Hence you should take fourth house also, just as you take 9th house.ThanksSanthoshSent from BlackBerry® on Airtel"vijay.goel" <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:31:01 -0000<@gro ups.com> Re: BTR Theory Respected members,On BTR method:Since the birth of a child takes place when the father of the child runs the joint period of Planets that are fruitful significators of 2,5 and 11 we say that the Ascdt of the child should be co-ruled by Planets that are linked to 10,5 and 7 houses (i.e 2,5,and 11 from 9). I took father because he is mainly responsible for the seed and gender of the child.Did we had the discussion on this concept earlier, did we applied and checked the validity of above statement, is it logically correct as per KP methods to apply it. ???Just a curiocity !Thankyou,Best Wishes,Vijay GoelJaipur@gro ups.com, "TW" <tw853 wrote:>> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 26419> > > @gro ups.com, "SuprakashGhosh" suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> >> > I think Lajmiji's point is very easy to verify by being present at any Nursing Home and noting down the time of First Cry. The clock must be a digital one and tuned to atomic clock. 3-4 cases are sufficient to have a first cut idea. Any doc in this forum to help?> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:39 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > > > The topic is closed because there were no fresh ideas. We were not heading anywhere due to very limited participation. What we were seeing was 'repeatation' of whatever was already said. > >> > If there is something new and fresh, please feel free to start a new topic. We must always remember that is is never possible that all accept our points. Acceptation of rejection is one's own choice. What most we can do is put our point best of our understanding. Truly speaking, I myself lost interest in this topic, because every time we are discussing the same point for few years now and without any method of concluding anything. Probably we need to give more emphasis to event verification for the rectified time. That seems the only method to decide in such a situation. > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Suprakash Ghosh suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> > > > > >  > > > > Dear Punitji> > > > I personally feel that Senthilji hasvalid logic. On the other hand Lajmiji has his experience. We have to meet the both ends. for that we need research and case study. Who else other than us can find a good theory with valid logic? Remember KSk was always for logical thinking.> > I think it is not wise to close the topic. It may generate heat..but that is a healthy sign .. solution comes from conflct...not bypassing it.> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > - > > Senthil > > @gro ups.com > > Cc: rathluther@ > > Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:05 AM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath, > > > > > > Further to my E-mail below I would like to add some more points. I have taken the whole zodiac (360 Degree) and workedout the total Degree occupied by the each SUB lords. Which is actually equal to the respective planet’s Vimshotri Year x 3 (=Vimshotri Year /120 x 360 Deg). > > > > > > Ascendant> > SUB> > LORD> > Total Birth > > Zone> > (Degree)> > Total No > > Birth Zone> > (Degree)> > Total Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > Total No Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > > > KET> > 21> > 339> > 1:24> > 22:36> > > > VEN> > 60> > 300> > 4:00> > 20:00> > > > SUN> > 18> > 342> > 1:12> > 22:48> > > > MOO> > 30> > 330> > 2:00> > 22:00> > > > MAR> > 21> > 339> >1:24> > 22:36> > > > RAH> > 54> > 306> > 3:36> > 20:24> > > > JUP> > 48> > 312> > 3:12> > 20:48> > > > SAT> > 57> > 303> > 3:48> > 20:12> > > > MER> > 51> > 309> > 3:24> > 20:36> > > > > > > > > > > > For example if you take SUN sub, it is occupied in the different Sign, Star of the zodiac whose total degree workout to 18 Degree. This means that the total possible childbirth Zone (Ascendant movement zone) is 18 Degree only (1Hr: 12min). So the balance 342 Degree in the zodiac can be called as total NO BIRTH ZONE (Here No birth Zone word is appropriate instead of calling it as barren Zone which will confuse more) the corresponding total NO BIRTH TIMEZONE works out to (22Hr: 48min). > > > > > > If you consider the MOON motion per day it varies from 11 Degree to 15 Degree depending upon the Sign, Star in which it is transiting. Suppose the MOON motion is 11Degree in a particular day who’s constellation is SUN then the MOON will take approximately 29 Hours to complete the Transit over SUN star. So the one full movement of ascendant will happen in 24 hours plus 5 hours in the next day also. Within these 5 hours the approximate movement of ascendant will 70 Degree (at the rate of 1 deg for 4 min). During this time the BIRTH ZONE(total) works out to 3Degree 20minute only (0Hr: 13min: 20Sec assuming that the ascendant transit happens from Zero Degree Aries to 15 Degree Gemini). So the balance 71Degree 40Minute in the zodiac the ascendant will transit again in NO BIRTH ZONE(total) corresponding NO BIRTH TIME ZONE(total) works out to 4Hr: 46min: 40Sec. > >> > > > Within 29 hours block time (worst case) as a total the NO BIRTH TIME ZONE and BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (27Hr: 34min: 40Sec) and (1Hr: 25min: 20Sec) respectively. Kindly note that in this case the NATAL MOON position and the Ascendant need not be in closer range/orb and the Ascendant can be anywhere in the zodiac. So if the MOON is in SUN star, In this world no birth should happen for about 27Hr: 34min: 40Sec(as a total not consecutive time) out of 29 hours block time. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT/IMPOSSIBL E. THERE ARE AMPLE NO OF CHANCES THAT THE CHILDBIRTH CAN HAPPEN DURING THIS TIME INTERVAL AROUND THE WORLD AT SOMEWHERE AT SOME PLACE WHO’S ASCENDANT CAN BE IN THE NO BIRTH ZONE ALSO. SO NOW YOU CAN DECIDE THE RULE IS ACCEPTABLE OR NOT!!!!!!! > > > > > > GOOD LUCK! > > > > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09,Senthil athi_ram@ wrote:> > > > > > Senthil athi_ram@> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Cc: rathluther@> > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 9:21 AM> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below.> > > > > > Hr.No. > > > > > > RASI > > > > > > Sgn > > > > > > Str > > > > > > Sub > > > > > > Degree> > Diff.> > > > 1> > RA1> >MAR> > KET> > KET> > 000:00:00> > > > > > 2> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > VEN> > 000:46:40> > > > > > 3> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SUN> > 003:00:00> > > > > > 4> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MOO> > 003:40:00> > > > > > 5> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MAR> > 004:46:40> > > > > > 6> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > RAH> > 005:33:20> > 011:26:40> > > > 7> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > JUP> > 007:33:20> > > > > > 8> > RA1> > MAR> >KET> > SAT> > 009:20:00> > > > > > 9> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MER> > 011:26:40> > > > > > 10> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > VEN> > 013:20:00> > > > > > 11> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SUN> > 015:33:20> > > > > > 12> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MOO> > 016:13:20> > > > > > 13> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MAR> > 017:20:00> > > > > > 14> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > RAH> > 018:06:40> > 012:33:20> > > > 15> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN>> JUP> > 020:06:40> > > > > > 16> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SAT> > 021:53:20> > > > > > 17> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MER> > 024:00:00> > > > > > 18> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > KET> > 025:53:20> > > > > > 19> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > SUN> > 026:40:00> > > > > > 20> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MOO> > 027:20:00> > > > > > 21> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MAR> > 028:26:40> > > > > > 22> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > RAH> >029:13:20> > 011:06:40> > > > 23> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > RAH> > 030:00:00> > > > > > 24> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > JUP> > 031:13:20> > > > > > 25> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > SAT> > 033:00:00> > > > > > 26> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > MER> > 035:06:40> > > > > > 27> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > KET> > 037:00:00> > > > > > 28> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > VEN> > 037:46:40> > > > > > 29> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MOO> >040:00:00> > > > > > 30> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MAR> > 041:06:40> > > > > > 31> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > RAH> > 041:53:20> > 011:53:20> > > > 32> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > JUP> > 043:53:20> > > > > > 33> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SAT> > 045:40:00> > > > > > 34> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MER> > 047:46:40> > > > > > 35> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > KET> > 049:40:00> > > > > > 36> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > VEN> >050:26:40> > > > > > 37> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SUN> > 052:40:00> > > > > > 38> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > MAR> > 053:20:00> > > > > > 39> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > RAH> > 054:06:40> > 012:13:20> > > > 40> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > JUP> > 056:06:40> > > > > > 41> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > SAT> > 057:53:20> > > > > > 42> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MER> > 060:00:00> > > > > > 43> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > KET> >061:53:20> > > > > > 44> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > VEN> > 062:40:00> > > > > > 45> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > SUN> > 064:53:20> > > > > > 46> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MOO> > 065:33:20> > > > > > 47> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > RAH> > 066:40:00> > 012:33:20> > > > 48> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > JUP> > 068:40:00> > > > > > 49> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SAT> > 070:26:40> > > > > > 50> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MER> >072:33:20> > > > > > 51> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > KET> > 074:26:40> > > > > > 52> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > VEN> > 075:13:20> > > > > > 53> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SUN> > 077:26:40> > > > > > 54> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MOO> > 078:06:40> > > > > > 55> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MAR> > 079:13:20> > > > > > 56> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > JUP> > 080:00:00> > > > > > 57> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SAT> > 081:46:40> >> > > > 58> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MER> > 083:53:20> > > > > > 59> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > KET> > 085:46:40> > > > > > 60> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > VEN> > 086:33:20> > > > > > 61> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SUN> > 088:46:40> > > > > > 62> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MOO> > 089:26:40> > > > > > 63> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MOO> > 090:00:00> > > > > > 64> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MAR> > 090:33:20> > > > >> 65> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > RAH> > 091:20:00> > 024:40:00> > > > 66> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SAT> > 093:20:00> > > > > > 67> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MER> > 095:26:40> > > > > > 68> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > KET> > 097:20:00> > > > > > 69> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > VEN> > 098:06:40> > > > > > 70> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SUN> > 100:20:00> > > > > > 71> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MOO> > 101:00:00> > > > > >72> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MAR> > 102:06:40> > > > > > 73> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > RAH> > 102:53:20> > 011:33:20> > > > 74> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > JUP> > 104:53:20> > > > > > 75> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MER> > 106:40:00> > > > > > 76> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > KET> > 108:33:20> > > > > > 77> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > VEN> > 109:20:00> > > > > > 78> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SUN> > 111:33:20> > > > > > 79>> RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MOO> > 112:13:20> > > > > > 80> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MAR> > 113:20:00> > > > > > 81> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > RAH> > 114:06:40> > 011:13:20> > > > 82> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > JUP> > 116:06:40> > > > > > 83> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SAT> > 117:53:20> > > > > > > > > > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutiveoccurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbirth around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances thatthe childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > > > > > > Sir, > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery shouldtake place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > Capricorn 24-06-40> > Aquarius 6-40-00> > Pisces 1-20-00> > Pisces 12-53-20> > Pisces 24-06-40> > Aries 5-33-20> > Aries 18-06-40> > Aries 29-13-20> > Taurus 11-53-20> > Taurus 24-06-40> > Gemini 6-40-00> > Cancer 1-20-00> > Cancer 24-06-40> > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule.> >Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> > Senthil athi_ram >> > @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --> > Senthil athi_ram >> > mssumich mssumich >> > Cc: @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > Re: BTR Theory> > >> > > Dear MS.> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics.> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009 = 353,015 births > > =14708.95833 per hour> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumichmssumich > wrote:> > > > > > mssumich mssumich >> > BTR Theory> > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > Thanks> > MS> > > > > > > > > > Dear TinWin,> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > > With the simple logicalcalculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> >>

[Guest guest]

Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book "Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II" (M/s. Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :In his own words: "If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or wrong, the method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or the Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth Star will be more correct." a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent. I) 'X' could be moon's star.This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star. [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet 'Y', II) 'Y' could be moon's starIII) Y's sub could be moon's star (Take this planet as 'Z' )]c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level, which will be the Birth Star. i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then SubSub(Anthara)-and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama). This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star. [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that sub sub (SS) is not taken here.]d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a Star–Sub–SubSub–SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS), which should tell the Birth Star.[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the moon's star.]A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth (boopadhana), Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone.As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four levels as explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the Birth Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to Sookshama level at times." Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose other factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and probabilites ratio will increase.Thankyou,Regards,Vijay GoelJaipur. , Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote:>> Dear Senthil,>                  The objective is to confirm the correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct...>                  As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...>                   BTR is as simple as that...>                  Yogesh Lajmi.  > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj wrote:> > > vijay.goel goyalvj Re: BTR Theory> > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM> > >  > > > > > > Dear Senthil ji,> > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :> > Rule 3:> If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P. method).... > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."> > Rule 4 :> > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given TOB...> The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of the IXth cusp...> Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul> Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth> Ven - is chief significator of Kama> Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...> > ************ ***> > Thankyou,> > Best Wishes,> Vijay Goel> Jaipur.> > --- > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:> >> > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,> >  > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time being. We will talk about one RULE first.> >  > > RULE:1> > *********> > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,> >  > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord> >  > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values up to Seconds)> >  > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More FAILURE results noticed).> >  > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE? As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points) about this RULE alone.> >  > >  > > RULE:2> > *********> > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======> > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth Chart...and so on...> > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= = > >  > > Reply:> > ====> > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE. Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many of them neither faced it nor remembers it.> >  > > Other RULES> > =========> > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.> >  > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing, angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.> >  > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s review comments.> >  > > GOOD LUCK!> >  > > D.Senthil> >  > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Cc: "Senthil" athi_ram@ .>> > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> >                   You seem to be "at it" again...> >                   Why are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your point ?> >                  You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched" -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..> >                  As said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to Ms.Sujata Das...> >                   On this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly as per D/B/A/S ...? ! > >                  I have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub level...> >                  With best wishes,> >                  Yogesh Lajmi. > >                                             GOOD LUCK !> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:> > > > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Cc: rathluther > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> >  > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below.> >  > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > Hr.No. > > > > > > RASI> > > > > > Sgn> > > > > > Str> > > > > > Sub> > > > > > Degree> > > > Diff.> > > > > > 1> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > KET> > > > 000:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 2> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > VEN> > > > 000:46:40> > > >  > > > > > > 3> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > SUN> > > > 003:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 4> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > MOO> > > > 003:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 5> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > MAR> > > > 004:46:40> > > >  > > > > > > 6> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > RAH> > > > 005:33:20> > > > 011:26:40> > > > > > 7> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > JUP> > > > 007:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 8> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > SAT> > > > 009:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 9> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > MER> > > > 011:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 10> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > VEN> > > > 013:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 11> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > 015:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 12> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > 016:13:20> > > >  > > > > > > 13> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > MAR> > > > 017:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 14> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > RAH> > > > 018:06:40> > > > 012:33:20> > > > > > 15> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > JUP> > > > 020:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 16> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > SAT> > > > 021:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 17> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > MER> > > > 024:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 18> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > KET> > > > 025:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 19> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > SUN> > > > 026:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 20> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > MOO> > > > 027:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 21> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > MAR> > > > 028:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 22> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > RAH> > > > 029:13:20> > > > 011:06:40> > > > > > 23> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > RAH> > > > 030:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 24> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > JUP> > > > 031:13:20> > > >  > > > > > > 25> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > SAT> > > > 033:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 26> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > MER> > > > 035:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 27> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > KET> > > > 037:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 28> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > VEN> > > > 037:46:40> > > >  > > > > > > 29> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > MOO> > > > 040:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 30> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > MAR> > > > 041:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 31> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > RAH> > > > 041:53:20> > > > 011:53:20> > > > > > 32> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > JUP> > > > 043:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 33> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > 045:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 34> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > 047:46:40> > > >  > > > > > > 35> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > KET> > > > 049:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 36> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > VEN> > > > 050:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 37> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > SUN> > > > 052:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 38> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MAR> > > > MAR> > > > 053:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 39> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MAR> > > > RAH> > > > 054:06:40> > > > 012:13:20> > > > > > 40> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MAR> > > > JUP> > > > 056:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 41> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MAR> > > > SAT> > > > 057:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 42> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > MER> > > > 060:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 43> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > 061:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 44> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > 062:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 45> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > 064:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 46> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > MOO> > > > 065:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 47> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > RAH> > > > 066:40:00> > > > 012:33:20> > > > > > 48> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > JUP> > > > 068:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 49> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > SAT> > > > 070:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 50> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > MER> > > > 072:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 51> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > KET> > > > 074:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 52> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > VEN> > > > 075:13:20> > > >  > > > > > > 53> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > SUN> > > > 077:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 54> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > MOO> > > > 078:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 55> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > MAR> > > > 079:13:20> > > >  > > > > > > 56> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > JUP> > > > 080:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 57> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > SAT> > > > 081:46:40> > > >  > > > > > > 58> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > MER> > > > 083:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 59> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > KET> > > > 085:46:40> > > >  > > > > > > 60> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > VEN> > > > 086:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 61> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > SUN> > > > 088:46:40> > > >  > > > > > > 62> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > MOO> > > > 089:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 63> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > JUP> > > > MOO> > > > 090:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 64> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > JUP> > > > MAR> > > > 090:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 65> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > JUP> > > > RAH> > > > 091:20:00> > > > 024:40:00> > > > > > 66> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > SAT> > > > 093:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 67> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > MER> > > > 095:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 68> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > KET> > > > 097:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 69> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > VEN> > > > 098:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 70> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > SUN> > > > 100:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 71> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > MOO> > > > 101:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 72> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > MAR> > > > 102:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 73> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > RAH> > > > 102:53:20> > > > 011:33:20> > > > > > 74> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > JUP> > > > 104:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 75> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > MER> > > > 106:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 76> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > KET> > > > 108:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 77> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > VEN> > > > 109:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 78> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > SUN> > > > 111:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 79> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > MOO> > > > 112:13:20> > > >  > > > > > > 80> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > 113:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 81> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > 114:06:40> > > > 011:13:20> > > > > > 82> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > 116:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 83> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > SAT> > > > 117:53:20> > > >  > >  > >  > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> >  > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> >  > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> >  > > GOOD LUCK!> >  > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Sir, > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > Capricorn 24-06-40> > Aquarius    6-40-00> > Pisces        1-20-00> > Pisces      12-53-20> > Pisces      24-06-40> > Aries         5-33-20> > Aries       18-06-40> > Aries      29-13-20> > Taurus     11-53-20> > Taurus     24-06-40> > Gemini       6-40-00> > Cancer      1-20-00> > Cancer     24-06-40> > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> >  > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > > > GOOD LUCK!> >  > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > mssumich mssumich >> > Cc: @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > Re: BTR Theory> > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear MS.> >  > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics.> >  > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> >  > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births > >                                                =14708.95833 per hour> >                                                = 245.1493056 per minute> >                                                = 4.085821759 per second.> >  > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> >  > > Hope the above gives the required information.> >  > > GOOD LUCK!> >  > > D.Senthil> >  > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > > > > mssumich mssumich >> > BTR Theory> > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > Thanks> > MS> > > > > > > > > > Dear TinWin,> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> >>

[Guest guest]

R/Members,

We are discussing a horoscope of a Child, isn,t it? So the 9th house will reflect astrological father of the child, and that,s what we need. So ," Only the mother knows.-------------" theory should not be applied here.

regards,

sk

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.

[Guest guest]

Dear Sujat,

My reply was in the context of which house to preferred ?

The details of the query/problem were not given...it was a general statement of a Universal Fact....!

BTW,just because you are "discussing a child's case", why you need the Father's cuspal details is still not made clear...!

Pl clarify...

Yogesh Lajmi. --- On Fri, 11/13/09, sujat karambelkar <sujatkaram wrote:

sujat karambelkar <sujatkaram Re: BTR Theory Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 5:34 PM

 

 

 

 

 

R/Members,

We are discussing a horoscope of a Child, isn,t it? So the 9th house will reflect astrological father of the child, and that,s what we need. So ," Only the mother knows.------ -------" theory should not be applied here.

regards,

sk

 

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[Guest guest]

On the other hand she may not know for sure who the father is, as some cases of multiple promiscuity.--- On Thu, 11/12/09, Luther Rath <rathluther wrote:Luther Rath <rathlutherRe: Re: BTR Theory Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 11:07 PM

 

 

I fully agree with Mr. Lajmiji.

Dr. Rath

 

 

 

Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ >@gro ups.comCc: vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Thu, November 12, 2009 9:03:42 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Vijay,

It is safer,and better to take the mother...because only the mother knows who the real father is... !

With best wishes,

Yogesh Lajmi--- On Thu, 11/12/09, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comThursday, November 12, 2009, 11:31 AM

Respected members,On BTR method:Since the birth of a child takes place when the father of the child runs the joint period of Planets that are fruitful significators of 2,5 and 11 we say that the Ascdt of the child should be co-ruled by Planets that are linked to 10,5 and 7 houses (i.e 2,5,and 11 from 9). I took father because he is mainly responsible for the seed and gender of the child.Did we had the discussion on this concept earlier, did we applied and checked the validity of above statement, is it logically correct as per KP methods to apply it. ???Just a curiocity !Thankyou,Best Wishes,Vijay GoelJaipur@gro ups.com, "TW" <tw853 wrote:>> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 26419> > > @gro ups.com,

"Suprakash

Ghosh" suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> >> > I think Lajmiji's point is very easy to verify by being present at any Nursing Home and noting down the time of First Cry. The clock must be a digital one and tuned to atomic clock. 3-4 cases are sufficient to have a first cut idea. Any doc in this forum to help?> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:39 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > > > The topic is closed because there were no fresh ideas. We were not heading anywhere due to very limited participation. What we were seeing was 'repeatation' of whatever was already said. > >

> > If there is something new and fresh, please feel free to start a new topic. We must always remember that is is never possible that all accept our points. Acceptation of rejection is one's own choice. What most we can do is put our point best of our understanding. Truly speaking, I myself lost interest in this topic, because every time we are discussing the same point for few years now and without any method of concluding anything. Probably we need to give more emphasis to event verification for the rectified time. That seems the only method to decide in such a situation. > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Suprakash Ghosh suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> > > > > >  > > > > Dear Punitji> > > > I personally feel that Senthilji has

valid logic. On the other hand Lajmiji has his experience. We have to meet the both ends. for that we need research and case study. Who else other than us can find a good theory with valid logic? Remember KSk was always for logical thinking.> > I think it is not wise to close the topic. It may generate heat..but that is a healthy sign .. solution comes from conflct...not bypassing it.> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > - > > Senthil > > @gro ups.com > > Cc: rathluther@ > > Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:05 AM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath, > > > > > > Further to my E-mail below I would like to add some more points. I have taken the whole zodiac (360 Degree) and worked

out the total Degree occupied by the each SUB lords. Which is actually equal to the respective planet’s Vimshotri Year x 3 (=Vimshotri Year /120 x 360 Deg). > > > > > > Ascendant> > SUB> > LORD> > Total Birth > > Zone> > (Degree)> > Total No > > Birth Zone> > (Degree)> > Total Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > Total No Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > > > KET> > 21> > 339> > 1:24> > 22:36> > > > VEN> > 60> > 300> > 4:00> > 20:00> > > > SUN> > 18> > 342> > 1:12> > 22:48> > > > MOO> > 30> > 330> > 2:00> > 22:00> > > > MAR> > 21> > 339> >

1:24> > 22:36> > > > RAH> > 54> > 306> > 3:36> > 20:24> > > > JUP> > 48> > 312> > 3:12> > 20:48> > > > SAT> > 57> > 303> > 3:48> > 20:12> > > > MER> > 51> > 309> > 3:24> > 20:36> > > > > > > > > > > > For example if you take SUN sub, it is occupied in the different Sign, Star of the zodiac whose total degree workout to 18 Degree. This means that the total possible childbirth Zone (Ascendant movement zone) is 18 Degree only (1Hr: 12min). So the balance 342 Degree in the zodiac can be called as total NO BIRTH ZONE (Here No birth Zone word is appropriate instead of calling it as barren Zone which will confuse more) the corresponding total NO BIRTH TIME

ZONE works out to (22Hr: 48min). > > > > > > If you consider the MOON motion per day it varies from 11 Degree to 15 Degree depending upon the Sign, Star in which it is transiting. Suppose the MOON motion is 11Degree in a particular day who’s constellation is SUN then the MOON will take approximately 29 Hours to complete the Transit over SUN star. So the one full movement of ascendant will happen in 24 hours plus 5 hours in the next day also. Within these 5 hours the approximate movement of ascendant will 70 Degree (at the rate of 1 deg for 4 min). During this time the BIRTH ZONE(total) works out to 3Degree 20minute only (0Hr: 13min: 20Sec assuming that the ascendant transit happens from Zero Degree Aries to 15 Degree Gemini). So the balance 71Degree 40Minute in the zodiac the ascendant will transit again in NO BIRTH ZONE(total) corresponding NO BIRTH TIME ZONE(total) works out to 4Hr: 46min: 40Sec. > >

> > > > Within 29 hours block time (worst case) as a total the NO BIRTH TIME ZONE and BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (27Hr: 34min: 40Sec) and (1Hr: 25min: 20Sec) respectively. Kindly note that in this case the NATAL MOON position and the Ascendant need not be in closer range/orb and the Ascendant can be anywhere in the zodiac. So if the MOON is in SUN star, In this world no birth should happen for about 27Hr: 34min: 40Sec(as a total not consecutive time) out of 29 hours block time. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT/IMPOSSIBL E. THERE ARE AMPLE NO OF CHANCES THAT THE CHILDBIRTH CAN HAPPEN DURING THIS TIME INTERVAL AROUND THE WORLD AT SOMEWHERE AT SOME PLACE WHO’S ASCENDANT CAN BE IN THE NO BIRTH ZONE ALSO. SO NOW YOU CAN DECIDE THE RULE IS ACCEPTABLE OR NOT!!!!!!! > > > > > > GOOD LUCK! > > > > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09,

Senthil athi_ram@ wrote:> > > > > > Senthil athi_ram@> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Cc: rathluther@> > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 9:21 AM> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below.> > > > > > Hr.No. > > > > > > RASI > > > > > > Sgn > > > > > > Str > > > > > > Sub > > > > > > Degree> > Diff.> > > > 1> > RA1> >

MAR> > KET> > KET> > 000:00:00> > > > > > 2> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > VEN> > 000:46:40> > > > > > 3> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SUN> > 003:00:00> > > > > > 4> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MOO> > 003:40:00> > > > > > 5> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MAR> > 004:46:40> > > > > > 6> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > RAH> > 005:33:20> > 011:26:40> > > > 7> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > JUP> > 007:33:20> > > > > > 8> > RA1> > MAR> >

KET> > SAT> > 009:20:00> > > > > > 9> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MER> > 011:26:40> > > > > > 10> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > VEN> > 013:20:00> > > > > > 11> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SUN> > 015:33:20> > > > > > 12> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MOO> > 016:13:20> > > > > > 13> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MAR> > 017:20:00> > > > > > 14> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > RAH> > 018:06:40> > 012:33:20> > > > 15> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN>

> JUP> > 020:06:40> > > > > > 16> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SAT> > 021:53:20> > > > > > 17> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MER> > 024:00:00> > > > > > 18> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > KET> > 025:53:20> > > > > > 19> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > SUN> > 026:40:00> > > > > > 20> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MOO> > 027:20:00> > > > > > 21> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MAR> > 028:26:40> > > > > > 22> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > RAH> >

029:13:20> > 011:06:40> > > > 23> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > RAH> > 030:00:00> > > > > > 24> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > JUP> > 031:13:20> > > > > > 25> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > SAT> > 033:00:00> > > > > > 26> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > MER> > 035:06:40> > > > > > 27> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > KET> > 037:00:00> > > > > > 28> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > VEN> > 037:46:40> > > > > > 29> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MOO> >

040:00:00> > > > > > 30> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MAR> > 041:06:40> > > > > > 31> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > RAH> > 041:53:20> > 011:53:20> > > > 32> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > JUP> > 043:53:20> > > > > > 33> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SAT> > 045:40:00> > > > > > 34> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MER> > 047:46:40> > > > > > 35> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > KET> > 049:40:00> > > > > > 36> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > VEN> >

050:26:40> > > > > > 37> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SUN> > 052:40:00> > > > > > 38> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > MAR> > 053:20:00> > > > > > 39> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > RAH> > 054:06:40> > 012:13:20> > > > 40> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > JUP> > 056:06:40> > > > > > 41> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > SAT> > 057:53:20> > > > > > 42> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MER> > 060:00:00> > > > > > 43> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > KET> >

061:53:20> > > > > > 44> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > VEN> > 062:40:00> > > > > > 45> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > SUN> > 064:53:20> > > > > > 46> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MOO> > 065:33:20> > > > > > 47> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > RAH> > 066:40:00> > 012:33:20> > > > 48> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > JUP> > 068:40:00> > > > > > 49> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SAT> > 070:26:40> > > > > > 50> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MER> >

072:33:20> > > > > > 51> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > KET> > 074:26:40> > > > > > 52> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > VEN> > 075:13:20> > > > > > 53> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SUN> > 077:26:40> > > > > > 54> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MOO> > 078:06:40> > > > > > 55> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MAR> > 079:13:20> > > > > > 56> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > JUP> > 080:00:00> > > > > > 57> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SAT> > 081:46:40> >

> > > > 58> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MER> > 083:53:20> > > > > > 59> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > KET> > 085:46:40> > > > > > 60> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > VEN> > 086:33:20> > > > > > 61> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SUN> > 088:46:40> > > > > > 62> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MOO> > 089:26:40> > > > > > 63> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MOO> > 090:00:00> > > > > > 64> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MAR> > 090:33:20> > > > >

> 65> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > RAH> > 091:20:00> > 024:40:00> > > > 66> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SAT> > 093:20:00> > > > > > 67> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MER> > 095:26:40> > > > > > 68> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > KET> > 097:20:00> > > > > > 69> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > VEN> > 098:06:40> > > > > > 70> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SUN> > 100:20:00> > > > > > 71> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MOO> > 101:00:00> > > > > >

72> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MAR> > 102:06:40> > > > > > 73> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > RAH> > 102:53:20> > 011:33:20> > > > 74> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > JUP> > 104:53:20> > > > > > 75> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MER> > 106:40:00> > > > > > 76> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > KET> > 108:33:20> > > > > > 77> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > VEN> > 109:20:00> > > > > > 78> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SUN> > 111:33:20> > > > > > 79>

> RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MOO> > 112:13:20> > > > > > 80> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MAR> > 113:20:00> > > > > > 81> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > RAH> > 114:06:40> > 011:13:20> > > > 82> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > JUP> > 116:06:40> > > > > > 83> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SAT> > 117:53:20> > > > > > > > > > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive

occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbirth around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that

the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > > > > > > Sir, > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should

take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > Capricorn 24-06-40> > Aquarius 6-40-00> > Pisces 1-20-00> > Pisces 12-53-20> > Pisces 24-06-40> > Aries 5-33-20> > Aries 18-06-40> > Aries 29-13-20> > Taurus 11-53-20> > Taurus 24-06-40> > Gemini 6-40-00> > Cancer 1-20-00> > Cancer 24-06-40> > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule.> >

Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> > Senthil athi_ram >> > @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro

ups.com> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --> > Senthil athi_ram >> > mssumich mssumich >> > Cc: @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > Re: BTR Theory> > >

> > > Dear MS.> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics.> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009 = 353,015 births > > =14708.95833 per hour> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich

mssumich > wrote:> > > > > > mssumich mssumich >> > BTR Theory> > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > Thanks> > MS> > > > > > > > > > Dear TinWin,> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > > With the simple logical

calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr Jordan,

Thanks for the input,but fact remains that instinctively,a mother KNOWS for certain who the father is,unless ofcourse, she is used to "entertaining" 4 or 5 or even more men in one evening...or having extra-marital sex...

That is my humble view...

With kind regards,

Yogesh Lajmi.

GOOD LUCK !

--- On Sun, 11/15/09, Ivan Jordan <ivanjordan1 wrote:

Ivan Jordan <ivanjordan1Re: Re: BTR Theory Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 2:46 AM

 

 

 

 

On the other hand she may not know for sure who the father is, as some cases of multiple promiscuity.--- On Thu, 11/12/09, Luther Rath <rathluther > wrote:

Luther Rath <rathluther >Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comThursday, November 12, 2009, 11:07 PM

 

 

I fully agree with Mr. Lajmiji.

Dr. Rath

 

 

 

Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ >@gro ups.comCc: vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Thu, November 12, 2009 9:03:42 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Vijay,

It is safer,and better to take the mother...because only the mother knows who the real father is... !

With best wishes,

Yogesh Lajmi--- On Thu, 11/12/09, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comThursday, November 12, 2009, 11:31 AM

Respected members,On BTR method:Since the birth of a child takes place when the father of the child runs the joint period of Planets that are fruitful significators of 2,5 and 11 we say that the Ascdt of the child should be co-ruled by Planets that are linked to 10,5 and 7 houses (i.e 2,5,and 11 from 9). I took father because he is mainly responsible for the seed and gender of the child.Did we had the discussion on this concept earlier, did we applied and checked the validity of above statement, is it logically correct as per KP methods to apply it. ???Just a curiocity !Thankyou,Best Wishes,Vijay GoelJaipur@gro ups.com, "TW" <tw853 wrote:>> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 26419> > > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash

Ghosh" suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> >> > I think Lajmiji's point is very easy to verify by being present at any Nursing Home and noting down the time of First Cry. The clock must be a digital one and tuned to atomic clock. 3-4 cases are sufficient to have a first cut idea. Any doc in this forum to help?> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:39 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > > > The topic is closed because there were no fresh ideas. We were not heading anywhere due to very limited participation. What we were seeing was 'repeatation' of whatever was already said. > >

> > If there is something new and fresh, please feel free to start a new topic. We must always remember that is is never possible that all accept our points. Acceptation of rejection is one's own choice. What most we can do is put our point best of our understanding. Truly speaking, I myself lost interest in this topic, because every time we are discussing the same point for few years now and without any method of concluding anything. Probably we need to give more emphasis to event verification for the rectified time. That seems the only method to decide in such a situation. > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Suprakash Ghosh suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> > > > > >  > > > > Dear Punitji> > > > I personally feel that Senthilji has

valid logic. On the other hand Lajmiji has his experience. We have to meet the both ends. for that we need research and case study. Who else other than us can find a good theory with valid logic? Remember KSk was always for logical thinking.> > I think it is not wise to close the topic. It may generate heat..but that is a healthy sign .. solution comes from conflct...not bypassing it.> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > - > > Senthil > > @gro ups.com > > Cc: rathluther@ > > Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:05 AM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath, > > > > > > Further to my E-mail below I would like to add some more points. I have taken the whole zodiac (360 Degree) and worked

out the total Degree occupied by the each SUB lords. Which is actually equal to the respective planet’s Vimshotri Year x 3 (=Vimshotri Year /120 x 360 Deg). > > > > > > Ascendant> > SUB> > LORD> > Total Birth > > Zone> > (Degree)> > Total No > > Birth Zone> > (Degree)> > Total Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > Total No Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > > > KET> > 21> > 339> > 1:24> > 22:36> > > > VEN> > 60> > 300> > 4:00> > 20:00> > > > SUN> > 18> > 342> > 1:12> > 22:48> > > > MOO> > 30> > 330> > 2:00> > 22:00> > > > MAR> > 21> > 339> >

1:24> > 22:36> > > > RAH> > 54> > 306> > 3:36> > 20:24> > > > JUP> > 48> > 312> > 3:12> > 20:48> > > > SAT> > 57> > 303> > 3:48> > 20:12> > > > MER> > 51> > 309> > 3:24> > 20:36> > > > > > > > > > > > For example if you take SUN sub, it is occupied in the different Sign, Star of the zodiac whose total degree workout to 18 Degree. This means that the total possible childbirth Zone (Ascendant movement zone) is 18 Degree only (1Hr: 12min). So the balance 342 Degree in the zodiac can be called as total NO BIRTH ZONE (Here No birth Zone word is appropriate instead of calling it as barren Zone which will confuse more) the corresponding total NO BIRTH TIME

ZONE works out to (22Hr: 48min). > > > > > > If you consider the MOON motion per day it varies from 11 Degree to 15 Degree depending upon the Sign, Star in which it is transiting. Suppose the MOON motion is 11Degree in a particular day who’s constellation is SUN then the MOON will take approximately 29 Hours to complete the Transit over SUN star. So the one full movement of ascendant will happen in 24 hours plus 5 hours in the next day also. Within these 5 hours the approximate movement of ascendant will 70 Degree (at the rate of 1 deg for 4 min). During this time the BIRTH ZONE(total) works out to 3Degree 20minute only (0Hr: 13min: 20Sec assuming that the ascendant transit happens from Zero Degree Aries to 15 Degree Gemini). So the balance 71Degree 40Minute in the zodiac the ascendant will transit again in NO BIRTH ZONE(total) corresponding NO BIRTH TIME ZONE(total) works out to 4Hr: 46min: 40Sec. > >

> > > > Within 29 hours block time (worst case) as a total the NO BIRTH TIME ZONE and BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (27Hr: 34min: 40Sec) and (1Hr: 25min: 20Sec) respectively. Kindly note that in this case the NATAL MOON position and the Ascendant need not be in closer range/orb and the Ascendant can be anywhere in the zodiac. So if the MOON is in SUN star, In this world no birth should happen for about 27Hr: 34min: 40Sec(as a total not consecutive time) out of 29 hours block time. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT/IMPOSSIBL E. THERE ARE AMPLE NO OF CHANCES THAT THE CHILDBIRTH CAN HAPPEN DURING THIS TIME INTERVAL AROUND THE WORLD AT SOMEWHERE AT SOME PLACE WHO’S ASCENDANT CAN BE IN THE NO BIRTH ZONE ALSO. SO NOW YOU CAN DECIDE THE RULE IS ACCEPTABLE OR NOT!!!!!!! > > > > > > GOOD LUCK! > > > > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09,

Senthil athi_ram@ wrote:> > > > > > Senthil athi_ram@> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Cc: rathluther@> > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 9:21 AM> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below.> > > > > > Hr.No. > > > > > > RASI > > > > > > Sgn > > > > > > Str > > > > > > Sub > > > > > > Degree> > Diff.> > > > 1> > RA1> >

MAR> > KET> > KET> > 000:00:00> > > > > > 2> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > VEN> > 000:46:40> > > > > > 3> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SUN> > 003:00:00> > > > > > 4> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MOO> > 003:40:00> > > > > > 5> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MAR> > 004:46:40> > > > > > 6> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > RAH> > 005:33:20> > 011:26:40> > > > 7> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > JUP> > 007:33:20> > > > > > 8> > RA1> > MAR> >

KET> > SAT> > 009:20:00> > > > > > 9> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MER> > 011:26:40> > > > > > 10> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > VEN> > 013:20:00> > > > > > 11> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SUN> > 015:33:20> > > > > > 12> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MOO> > 016:13:20> > > > > > 13> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MAR> > 017:20:00> > > > > > 14> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > RAH> > 018:06:40> > 012:33:20> > > > 15> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN>

> JUP> > 020:06:40> > > > > > 16> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SAT> > 021:53:20> > > > > > 17> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MER> > 024:00:00> > > > > > 18> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > KET> > 025:53:20> > > > > > 19> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > SUN> > 026:40:00> > > > > > 20> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MOO> > 027:20:00> > > > > > 21> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MAR> > 028:26:40> > > > > > 22> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > RAH> >

029:13:20> > 011:06:40> > > > 23> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > RAH> > 030:00:00> > > > > > 24> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > JUP> > 031:13:20> > > > > > 25> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > SAT> > 033:00:00> > > > > > 26> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > MER> > 035:06:40> > > > > > 27> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > KET> > 037:00:00> > > > > > 28> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > VEN> > 037:46:40> > > > > > 29> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MOO> >

040:00:00> > > > > > 30> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MAR> > 041:06:40> > > > > > 31> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > RAH> > 041:53:20> > 011:53:20> > > > 32> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > JUP> > 043:53:20> > > > > > 33> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SAT> > 045:40:00> > > > > > 34> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MER> > 047:46:40> > > > > > 35> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > KET> > 049:40:00> > > > > > 36> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > VEN> >

050:26:40> > > > > > 37> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SUN> > 052:40:00> > > > > > 38> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > MAR> > 053:20:00> > > > > > 39> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > RAH> > 054:06:40> > 012:13:20> > > > 40> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > JUP> > 056:06:40> > > > > > 41> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > SAT> > 057:53:20> > > > > > 42> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MER> > 060:00:00> > > > > > 43> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > KET> >

061:53:20> > > > > > 44> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > VEN> > 062:40:00> > > > > > 45> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > SUN> > 064:53:20> > > > > > 46> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MOO> > 065:33:20> > > > > > 47> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > RAH> > 066:40:00> > 012:33:20> > > > 48> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > JUP> > 068:40:00> > > > > > 49> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SAT> > 070:26:40> > > > > > 50> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MER> >

072:33:20> > > > > > 51> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > KET> > 074:26:40> > > > > > 52> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > VEN> > 075:13:20> > > > > > 53> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SUN> > 077:26:40> > > > > > 54> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MOO> > 078:06:40> > > > > > 55> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MAR> > 079:13:20> > > > > > 56> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > JUP> > 080:00:00> > > > > > 57> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SAT> > 081:46:40> >

> > > > 58> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MER> > 083:53:20> > > > > > 59> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > KET> > 085:46:40> > > > > > 60> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > VEN> > 086:33:20> > > > > > 61> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SUN> > 088:46:40> > > > > > 62> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MOO> > 089:26:40> > > > > > 63> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MOO> > 090:00:00> > > > > > 64> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MAR> > 090:33:20> > > > >

> 65> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > RAH> > 091:20:00> > 024:40:00> > > > 66> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SAT> > 093:20:00> > > > > > 67> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MER> > 095:26:40> > > > > > 68> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > KET> > 097:20:00> > > > > > 69> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > VEN> > 098:06:40> > > > > > 70> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SUN> > 100:20:00> > > > > > 71> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MOO> > 101:00:00> > > > > >

72> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MAR> > 102:06:40> > > > > > 73> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > RAH> > 102:53:20> > 011:33:20> > > > 74> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > JUP> > 104:53:20> > > > > > 75> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MER> > 106:40:00> > > > > > 76> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > KET> > 108:33:20> > > > > > 77> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > VEN> > 109:20:00> > > > > > 78> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SUN> > 111:33:20> > > > > > 79>

> RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MOO> > 112:13:20> > > > > > 80> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MAR> > 113:20:00> > > > > > 81> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > RAH> > 114:06:40> > 011:13:20> > > > 82> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > JUP> > 116:06:40> > > > > > 83> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SAT> > 117:53:20> > > > > > > > > > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive

occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbirth around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that

the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > > > > > > Sir, > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should

take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > Capricorn 24-06-40> > Aquarius 6-40-00> > Pisces 1-20-00> > Pisces 12-53-20> > Pisces 24-06-40> > Aries 5-33-20> > Aries 18-06-40> > Aries 29-13-20> > Taurus 11-53-20> > Taurus 24-06-40> > Gemini 6-40-00> > Cancer 1-20-00> > Cancer 24-06-40> > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule.> >

Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> > Senthil athi_ram >> > @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro

ups.com> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --> > Senthil athi_ram >> > mssumich mssumich >> > Cc: @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > Re: BTR Theory> > >

> > > Dear MS.> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics.> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009 = 353,015 births > > =14708.95833 per hour> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich

mssumich > wrote:> > > > > > mssumich mssumich >> > BTR Theory> > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > Thanks> > MS> > > > > > > > > > Dear TinWin,> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > > With the simple logical

calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends,

 

Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous studies (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the study has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically, in my opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr. Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.

 

I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all the conditions (a to d)?

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel <goyalvj wrote:

 

 

 

 

Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book " Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II " (M/s. Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :In his own words:

  " If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or wrong, the method is   the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or the Moon Sign directly or   in one way or the other.  To tell the very Birth Star will be more correct. "

a)    The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.

 I) 'X' could be moon's star.This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]b)    The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.  

[if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet 'Y', II) 'Y' could be moon's star

III) Y's  sub could be moon's star (Take this planet as 'Z' )]c)    The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level, which will be the Birth Star.

       i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then SubSub(Anthara)-and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama).       This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.  

[ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that sub sub (SS) is not taken here.]d)    The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a Star–Sub–SubSub–SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS), which should tell the Birth Star.

[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the moon's star.]A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth (boopadhana), Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such circumstances, you cannot stick to      one method of thinking alone.

As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four levels as explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the Birth Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to Sookshama level at times. "

Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose other factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and probabilites ratio will increase.

Thankyou,Regards,Vijay GoelJaipur.

, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote:>> Dear Senthil,>                   The objective is to confirm the correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct...

>                   As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...>                   BTR is as simple as that... >                   Yogesh Lajmi.  > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj wrote:> > > vijay.goel goyalvj > Re: BTR Theory> > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM>

> >  

> > > > > > Dear Senthil ji,> > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :> > Rule 3:> If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P. method)....

> Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : " If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a female sign,then the chart is of a female child... "

> > Rule 4 :> > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given TOB...> The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of the IXth cusp...> Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul

> Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth> Ven - is chief significator of Kama> Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...

> > ************ ***> > Thankyou,> > Best Wishes,> Vijay Goel> Jaipur.> > --- > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:

> >> > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,> >   > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time being. We will talk about one RULE first.> >   > > RULE:1> > *********> > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,> >  > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord> >  > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values up to Seconds)

> >   > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More FAILURE results noticed).

> >  > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE? As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's  book understood his methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points)  about this RULE alone.

> >  > >  > > RULE:2> > ********* > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======> > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth Chart...and so on...

> > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= = > >  > > Reply:> > ====> > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE. Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many of them neither faced it nor remembers it.

> >   > > Other RULES> > =========> > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.

> >  > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing, angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.

> >  > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s review comments.

> >  > > GOOD LUCK!> >  > > D.Senthil> >   > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> > Re: Re: BTR Theory

> > @gro ups.com> > Cc: " Senthil " athi_ram@ .>> > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > > >

> >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> >                   You seem to be " at it " again...

> >                   Why are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your point ?

> >                   You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well- " researched " -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. .. > >                   As said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to Ms.Sujata Das...

> >                   On this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly as per D/B/A/S ...? !

> >                   I have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub level...

> >                   With best wishes,> >                   Yogesh Lajmi. > >                                              GOOD LUCK ! > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:> > > > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory

> > @gro ups.com> > Cc: rathluther > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > > >

> >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> >   > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below.

> >  > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > Hr.No. > > > > > > RASI> > > > > > Sgn> > > >

> > Str> > > > > > Sub> > > > > > Degree> > > > Diff.> > > > > > 1> > > > RA1> >

> > MAR> > > > KET> > > > KET> > > > 000:00:00> > > >   > > > > > > 2> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > VEN> > > > 000:46:40

> > > >   > > > > > > 3> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > SUN> > > > 003:00:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 4> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > MOO> > > > 003:40:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 5> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > MAR> > > > 004:46:40

> > > >   > > > > > > 6> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > RAH> > > > 005:33:20

> > > > 011:26:40> > > > > > 7> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > JUP> > > > 007:33:20

> > > >   > > > > > > 8> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > SAT> > > > 009:20:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 9> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > MER> > > > 011:26:40

> > > >   > > > > > > 10> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > VEN> > > > 013:20:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 11> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > 015:33:20

> > > >   > > > > > > 12> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > 016:13:20

> > > >   > > > > > > 13> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > MAR> > > > 017:20:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 14> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > RAH> > > > 018:06:40

> > > > 012:33:20> > > > > > 15> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > JUP> > > > 020:06:40

> > > >   > > > > > > 16> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > SAT> > > > 021:53:20

> > > >   > > > > > > 17> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > MER> > > > 024:00:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 18> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > KET> > > > 025:53:20

> > > >   > > > > > > 19> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > SUN> > > > 026:40:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 20> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > MOO> > > > 027:20:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 21> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > MAR> > > > 028:26:40

> > > >   > > > > > > 22> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > RAH> > > > 029:13:20

> > > > 011:06:40> > > > > > 23> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > RAH> > > > 030:00:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 24> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > JUP> > > > 031:13:20

> > > >   > > > > > > 25> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > SAT> > > > 033:00:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 26> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > MER> > > > 035:06:40

> > > >   > > > > > > 27> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > KET> > > > 037:00:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 28> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > VEN> > > > 037:46:40

> > > >   > > > > > > 29> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > MOO> > > > 040:00:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 30> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > MAR> > > > 041:06:40

> > > >   > > > > > > 31> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > RAH> > > > 041:53:20

> > > > 011:53:20> > > > > > 32> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > JUP> > > > 043:53:20

> > > >   > > > > > > 33> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > 045:40:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 34> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > 047:46:40

> > > >   > > > > > > 35> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > KET> > > > 049:40:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 36> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > VEN> > > > 050:26:40

> > > >   > > > > > > 37> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > SUN> > > > 052:40:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 38> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MAR> > > > MAR> > > > 053:20:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 39> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MAR> > > > RAH> > > > 054:06:40

> > > > 012:13:20> > > > > > 40> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MAR> > > > JUP> > > > 056:06:40

> > > >   > > > > > > 41> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MAR> > > > SAT> > > > 057:53:20

> > > >   > > > > > > 42> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > MER> > > > 060:00:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 43> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > 061:53:20

> > > >   > > > > > > 44> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > 062:40:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 45> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > 064:53:20

> > > >   > > > > > > 46> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > MOO> > > > 065:33:20

> > > >   > > > > > > 47> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > RAH> > > > 066:40:00

> > > > 012:33:20> > > > > > 48> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > JUP> > > > 068:40:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 49> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > SAT> > > > 070:26:40

> > > >   > > > > > > 50> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > MER> > > > 072:33:20

> > > >   > > > > > > 51> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > KET> > > > 074:26:40

> > > >   > > > > > > 52> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > VEN> > > > 075:13:20

> > > >   > > > > > > 53> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > SUN> > > > 077:26:40

> > > >   > > > > > > 54> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > MOO> > > > 078:06:40

> > > >   > > > > > > 55> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > MAR> > > > 079:13:20

> > > >   > > > > > > 56> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > JUP> > > > 080:00:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 57> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > SAT> > > > 081:46:40

> > > >   > > > > > > 58> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > MER> > > > 083:53:20

> > > >   > > > > > > 59> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > KET> > > > 085:46:40

> > > >   > > > > > > 60> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > VEN> > > > 086:33:20

> > > >   > > > > > > 61> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > SUN> > > > 088:46:40

> > > >   > > > > > > 62> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > MOO> > > > 089:26:40

> > > >   > > > > > > 63> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > JUP> > > > MOO> > > > 090:00:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 64> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > JUP> > > > MAR> > > > 090:33:20

> > > >   > > > > > > 65> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > JUP> > > > RAH> > > > 091:20:00

> > > > 024:40:00> > > > > > 66> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > SAT> > > > 093:20:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 67> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > MER> > > > 095:26:40

> > > >   > > > > > > 68> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > KET> > > > 097:20:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 69> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > VEN> > > > 098:06:40

> > > >   > > > > > > 70> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > SUN> > > > 100:20:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 71> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > MOO> > > > 101:00:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 72> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > MAR> > > > 102:06:40

> > > >   > > > > > > 73> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > RAH> > > > 102:53:20

> > > > 011:33:20> > > > > > 74> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > JUP> > > > 104:53:20

> > > >   > > > > > > 75> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > MER> > > > 106:40:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 76> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > KET> > > > 108:33:20

> > > >   > > > > > > 77> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > VEN> > > > 109:20:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 78> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > SUN> > > > 111:33:20

> > > >   > > > > > > 79> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > MOO> > > > 112:13:20

> > > >   > > > > > > 80> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > 113:20:00

> > > >   > > > > > > 81> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > 114:06:40

> > > > 011:13:20> > > > > > 82> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > 116:06:40

> > > >   > > > > > > 83> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > SAT> > > > 117:53:20

> > > >  > >   > >  > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).

> >  > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.

> >  > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

> >  > > GOOD LUCK!> >   > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>

> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > >

> >  

> > > > > > > > Sir, > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.

> > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > Capricorn 24-06-40

> > Aquarius     6-40-00> > Pisces         1-20-00> > Pisces       12-53-20> > Pisces       24-06-40

> > Aries          5-33-20> > Aries        18-06-40> > Aries        29-13-20> > Taurus      11-53-20

> > Taurus      24-06-40> > Gemini        6-40-00> > Cancer       1-20-00> > Cancer      24-06-40 > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule.

> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > @gro ups.com

> > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> >

> >   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> >  > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already.

> > > > GOOD LUCK!> >   > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>

> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > >

> >  

> > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR.

> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > mssumich mssumich >> > Cc: @gro ups.com

> > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > Re: BTR Theory> > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Dear MS.> >   > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics.> >   > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html

> >  > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births > >                                                 =14708.95833  per hour

> >                                                 = 245.1493056 per minute

> >                                                 = 4.085821759 per second.

> >  > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.

> >   > > Hope the above gives the required information.

> >  > > GOOD LUCK!> >  > > D.Senthil> >   > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > > > > mssumich mssumich >> > BTR Theory

> > " Senthil " athi_ram >> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.

> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > Thanks> > MS> > > > > > > > > > Dear TinWin,> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.

> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.

> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Punitji,//Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically//Nice to see the use of word Holistically .*****Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from KP experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all,I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself, its sub & sub sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star?II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ?I am expecting some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding from KP experts.Thanking you,Regards,Vijay GoelJaipur. , Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Friends,> > Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous studies> (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the study> has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically, in my> opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr.> Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.> > I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record> purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all the> conditions (a to d)?> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel goyalvj wrote:> > >> >> > Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,> >> > Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book "Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II" (M/s.> > Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :> >> > In his own words:> >> > *"If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or wrong, the> > method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or the> > Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth> > Star will be more correct."> >> > a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.> >> > *[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.> > I) 'X' could be moon's star.> > This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]*> >> > b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.> > *> > [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet 'Y',> > II) 'Y' could be moon's star> > III) Y's sub could be moon's star (*Take this planet as 'Z'* )]> >> > *c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level, which will> > be the Birth Star.> > i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then> > SubSub(Anthara)-and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama).> > This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.> > *> > [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that sub sub> > (SS) is not taken here.]*> >> > d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a> > Star–Sub–SubSub–SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS), which> > should tell the Birth Star.> >> > *[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the moon's> > star.]*> >> >> > A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth (boopadhana),> > Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such> > circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone.> >> > As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four levels as> > explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the Birth> > Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to> > Sookshama level at times." *> >> > Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had> > provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose other> > factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and> > probabilites ratio will increase.> >> > Thankyou,> > Regards,> > Vijay Goel> > Jaipur.> >> >> >> > , Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Senthil,> > >                  The objective is to confirm the> > correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned> > are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct...> > >                  As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of> > Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...> > >                   BTR is as simple as that...> >> > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. Â> > >> > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > vijay.goel goyalvj@> >> > > Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM> > >> > >> > > Â> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Senthil ji,> > >> > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :> > >> > > Rule 3:> > > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P.> > method)....> > > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the> > sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord> > is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a> > female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."> > >> > > Rule 4 :> > >> > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given> > TOB...> > > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of> > the IXth cusp...> > > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul> > > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth> > > Ven - is chief significator of Kama> > > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am> > not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...> > >> > > ************ ***> > >> > > Thankyou,> > >> > > Best Wishes,> > > Vijay Goel> > > Jaipur.> > >> > > ---> > > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time> > being. We will talk about one RULE first.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > RULE:1> > > > *********> > > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values> > up to Seconds)> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l> > explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with> > 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More> > FAILURE results noticed).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE?> > As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his> > methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points)ÂÂ> > about this RULE alone.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > RULE:2> > > > *********> >> > > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======> > > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a> > cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be> > ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from> > having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses> > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that> > time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth> > Chart...and so on...> > > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= =ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Reply:> > > > ====> > > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE.> > Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many> > of them neither faced it nor remembers it.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Other RULES> > > > =========> > > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience> > wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not> > coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be> > so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing,> > angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for> > your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling> > on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s> > review comments.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: "Senthil" athi_ram@ .>> > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > >> >                   You> > seem to be "at it" again...> > > >> >                   Why> > are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research> > in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your> > point ?> > > >                 ÂÂ> > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule> > of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your> > knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched"> > -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..> >> > > >                  As> > said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you> > do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to> > Ms.Sujata Das...> > > >> >                   On> > this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that> > the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR> > that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly> > as per D/B/A/S ...? !> > > >                  I> > have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub> > level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub> > level...> > > >                 ÂÂ> > With best wishes,> > > >                 ÂÂ> > Yogesh Lajmi.> > > >> >                                            ÂÂ> > GOOD LUCK !> >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: rathluther > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position> > in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac> > is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given> > below.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Hr.No.> > > >> > > >> > > > RASI> > > >> > > >> > > > Sgn> > > >> > > >> > > > Str> > > >> > > >> > > > Sub> > > >> > > >> > > > Degree> > > >> > > > Diff.> > > >> > > >> > > > 1> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 000:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 2> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 000:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 3> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 003:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 4> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 003:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 5> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 004:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 6> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 005:33:20> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 7> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 007:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 8> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 009:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 9> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 10> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 013:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 11> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 015:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 12> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 016:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 13> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 017:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 14> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 018:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 15> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 020:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 16> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 021:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 17> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 024:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 18> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 025:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 19> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 026:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 20> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 027:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 21> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 028:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 22> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 029:13:20> > > >> > > > 011:06:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 23> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 030:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 24> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 031:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 25> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 033:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 26> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 035:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 27> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 037:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 28> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 037:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 29> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 040:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 30> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 041:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 31> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 041:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:53:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 32> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 043:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 33> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 045:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 34> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 047:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 35> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 049:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 36> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 050:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 37> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 052:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 38> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 053:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 39> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 054:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 40> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 056:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 41> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 057:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 42> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 060:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 43> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 061:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 44> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 062:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 45> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 064:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 46> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 065:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 47> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 066:40:00> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 48> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 068:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 49> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 070:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 50> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 072:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 51> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 074:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 52> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 075:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 53> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 077:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 54> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 078:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 55> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 079:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 56> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 080:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 57> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 081:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 58> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 083:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 59> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 085:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 60> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 086:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 61> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 088:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 62> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 089:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 63> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 090:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 64> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 090:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 65> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 091:20:00> > > >> > > > 024:40:00> > > >> > > >> > > > 66> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 093:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 67> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 095:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 68> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 097:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 69> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 098:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 70> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 100:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 71> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 101:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 72> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 102:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 73> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 102:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 74> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 104:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 75> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 106:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 76> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 108:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 77> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 109:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 78> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 111:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 79> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 112:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 80> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 113:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 81> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 114:06:40> > > >> > > > 011:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 82> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 116:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 83> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 117:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of> > RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you> > assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in> > degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min> > which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the> > average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes> > upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours> > to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's> > relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no> > question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of> > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two> > consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it> > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that> > is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is> > absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can> > happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can> > decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Sir,> > > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as> > per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in> > various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the> > ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So> > now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when> > 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then> > deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > > > Capricorn 24-06-40> > > > Aquarius    6-40-00> > > > Pisces        1-20-00> > > > Pisces      12-53-20> > > > Pisces      24-06-40> > > > Aries         5-33-20> > > > Aries       18-06-40> > > > Aries      29-13-20> > > > Taurus     11-53-20> > > > Taurus     24-06-40> > > > Gemini       6-40-00> > > > Cancer      1-20-00> > > > Cancer     24-06-40> >> > > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall> > there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in> > constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is> > fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my> > understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable> > rule.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there> > are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of> > Moon and such birth chart i have seen already.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4> > births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next> > second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I> > would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3> > degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying> > the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > Cc: @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > > > Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear MS.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for> > Population Statistics.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > ÂÂ> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > =14708.95833 per hour> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the> > places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will> > defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen> > charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree> > orb.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > BTR Theory> > > > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many> > births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord> > will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of> > the proof you gave is very clear.> > > >> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > > > Thanks> > > > MS> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear TinWin,> > > >> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > >> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the> > method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant)> > position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON> > position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the> > world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect> > and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & > > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > >> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical> > example and thanks for the same.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > >> >> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Vijay ji,

 

I am not aware of any patent on the word " holistically " and hence used the word. By the way, your indirect comment is not appreciated because when I wanted to discuss the topic, you backed out and now this indirect comment which is trying to convey that the word " holistically " is a synonym with " absolutely correct " . Whenever you have interest in discussing Double-Transit, would appreciate that you respond my questions in that topic which helps your point of view and hence take the discussion forward. My usage of word " holistically " doesn't add anything to that discussion, it doesn't make " holistically " a synonym for " correct. "

 

Coming to Shanmugam ji method, I do not have any opinion to share with the forum. I personally do not use this method because I see no logic on various facets like why Ascendant sub and not Moon's sub? Why Moon's nakshatra but not Ascedant's nakshtra? I do not have any good logical explanation for myself and hence I do not use it. Though I also felt that all our discussion and study is mostly surrounding first point and not on all four points as suggested by Shanmugam ji. It also look like Lajmi ji also use first point only and not all four points most of the time. I didn't write about it earlier because of lack of interest in this topic. We would have discussed this topic 100+ times in the past and without any conclusion and hence no interest.

 

After so many discussions on this topic, I emphesize verification framework which is not very strong in KP. There is needed some simple and straight-forward way to verify whether the time is correct or not. In my opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about the rectification method.

 

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

 

 

On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM, vijay.goel <goyalvj wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Punitji,//Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically//

Nice to see the use of word Holistically .*****Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from KP experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all,

I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself,  its sub & sub sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star?II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ?

I am expecting  some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding from KP experts.Thanking you,Regards,Vijay GoelJaipur.   , Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Friends,> > Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous studies

> (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the study> has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically, in my> opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr.

> Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.> > I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record> purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all the

> conditions (a to d)?> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey>

 

 

> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel goyalvj wrote:> > >> >> > Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,> >> > Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book " Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II " (M/s.

> > Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :> >> > In his own words:> >> > * " If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or wrong, the

> > method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or the> > Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth> > Star will be more correct. " > >

> > a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.> >> > *[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.> > I) 'X' could be moon's star.> > This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]*

> >> > b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.> > *> > [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet 'Y',

> > II) 'Y' could be moon's star> > III) Y's sub could be moon's star (*Take this planet as 'Z'* )]> >> > *c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that

> > Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level, which will> > be the Birth Star.> > i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then> > SubSub(Anthara)-and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama).

> > This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.> > *> > [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that sub sub> > (SS) is not taken here.]*> >

> > d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a> > Star–Sub–SubSub–SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS), which> > should tell the Birth Star.> >> > *[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the moon's

> > star.]*> >> >> > A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth (boopadhana),> > Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such> > circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone.

> >> > As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four levels as> > explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the Birth> > Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to

> > Sookshama level at times. " *> >> > Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had> > provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose other

> > factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and> > probabilites ratio will increase.> >> > Thankyou,> > Regards,> > Vijay Goel> > Jaipur.

> >> >> >> > , Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Senthil,

> > >                  The objective is to confirm the> > correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned> > are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct...

> > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of> > Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...> > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â BTR is as simple as that...> >

> > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. Â> > >> > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > vijay.goel goyalvj@

> >> > > Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM

> > >> > >> > > Â> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Senthil ji,> > >> > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :

> > >> > > Rule 3:> > > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P.> > method)....> > > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : " If the

> > sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord> > is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a> > female sign,then the chart is of a female child... "

> > >> > > Rule 4 :> > >> > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given> > TOB...> > > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of

> > the IXth cusp...> > > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul> > > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth> > > Ven - is chief significator of Kama

> > > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am> > not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...> > >> > > ************ ***> > >

> > > Thankyou,> > >> > > Best Wishes,> > > Vijay Goel> > > Jaipur.> > >> > > ---> > > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:

> > > >> > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time> > being. We will talk about one RULE first.

> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > RULE:1> > > > *********> > > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord

> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values> > up to Seconds)> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l

> > explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with> > 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More> > FAILURE results noticed).> > > > ÂÂ

> > > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE?> > As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his> > methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points)ÂÂ

> > about this RULE alone.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > RULE:2> > > > *********> >> > > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======

> > > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a> > cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be> > ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from

> > having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses> > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that> > time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth

> > Chart...and so on...> > > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= =ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Reply:> > > > ====> > > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE.

> > Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many> > of them neither faced it nor remembers it.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Other RULES

> > > > =========> > > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience

> > wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not> > coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be> > so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing,

> > angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for> > your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling

> > on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s> > review comments.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil

> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > >> > > >

> > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > Cc: " Senthil " athi_ram@ .>> > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >

> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > >

> >                   You> > seem to be " at it " again...> > > >> >                   Why

> > are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research> > in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your> > point ?> > > >                 ÂÂ

> > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule> > of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your> > knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well- " researched "

> > -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..> >> > > >                  As> > said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you

> > do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to> > Ms.Sujata Das...> > > >> >                   On

> > this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that> > the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR> > that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly

> > as per D/B/A/S ...? !> > > >                  I> > have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub> > level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub

> > level...> > > >                 ÂÂ> > With best wishes,> > > >                 ÂÂ

> > Yogesh Lajmi.> > > >> >                                            ÂÂ

> > GOOD LUCK !> >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >

> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: rathluther > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM

> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,

> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position> > in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac

> > is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given> > below.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Hr.No.> > > >> > > >> > > > RASI> > > >> > > >> > > > Sgn

> > > >> > > >> > > > Str> > > >> > > >> > > > Sub> > > >> > > >> > > > Degree

> > > >> > > > Diff.> > > >> > > >> > > > 1> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 000:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 2> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >

> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 000:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 3> > > >

> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 003:00:00

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 4> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 003:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 5> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >

> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 004:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 6> > > >

> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 005:33:20

> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 7> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 007:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 8> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >

> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 009:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 9> > > >

> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 011:26:40

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 10> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 013:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 11> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >

> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 015:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 12> > > >

> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 016:13:20

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 13> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 017:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 14> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >

> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 018:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 15> > > >

> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 020:06:40

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 16> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 021:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 17> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >

> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 024:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 18> > > >

> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 025:53:20

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 19> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 026:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 20> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >

> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 027:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 21> > > >

> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 028:26:40

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 22> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 029:13:20> > > >> > > > 011:06:40> > > >

> > > >> > > > 23> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >

> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 030:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 24> > > >

> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 031:13:20

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 25> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 033:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 26> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >

> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 035:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 27> > > >

> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 037:00:00

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 28> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 037:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 29> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >

> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 040:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 30> > > >

> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 041:06:40

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 31> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 041:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:53:20> > > >

> > > >> > > > 32> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >

> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 043:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 33> > > >

> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 045:40:00

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 34> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 047:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 35> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >

> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 049:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 36> > > >

> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 050:26:40

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 37> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 052:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 38> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >

> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 053:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 39> > > >

> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 054:06:40

> > > >> > > > 012:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 40> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 056:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 41> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >

> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 057:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 42> > > >

> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 060:00:00

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 43> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER

> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 061:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 44> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >

> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 062:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 45> > > >

> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 064:53:20

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 46> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER

> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 065:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 47> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >

> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 066:40:00> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 48> > > >

> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 068:40:00

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 49> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER

> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 070:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 50> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >

> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 072:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 51> > > >

> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 074:26:40

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 52> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER

> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 075:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 53> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >

> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 077:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 54> > > >

> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 078:06:40

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 55> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER

> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 079:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 56> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >

> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 080:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 57> > > >

> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 081:46:40

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 58> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER

> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 083:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 59> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >

> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 085:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 60> > > >

> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 086:33:20

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 61> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER

> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 088:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 62> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >

> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 089:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 63> > > >

> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 090:00:00

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 64> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 090:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 65> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >

> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 091:20:00> > > >> > > > 024:40:00> > > >> > > >> > > > 66> > > >

> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 093:20:00

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 67> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 095:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 68> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >

> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 097:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 69> > > >

> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 098:06:40

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 70> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 100:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 71> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >

> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 101:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 72> > > >

> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 102:06:40

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 73> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 102:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:33:20> > > >

> > > >> > > > 74> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >

> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 104:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 75> > > >

> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 106:40:00

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 76> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 108:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 77> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >

> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 109:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 78> > > >

> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 111:33:20

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 79> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 112:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 80> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >

> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 113:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 81> > > >

> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 114:06:40

> > > >> > > > 011:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 82> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 116:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 83> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >

> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 117:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of

> > RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you> > assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in> > degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min

> > which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the> > average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes> > upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours

> > to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's> > relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no

> > question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of> > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two

> > consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it> > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that> > is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is

> > absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can> > happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can> > decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:

> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Sir,

> > > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as> > per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in> > various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the

> > ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So> > now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when> > 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then

> > deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > > > Capricorn 24-06-40> > > > Aquarius    6-40-00

> > > > Pisces        1-20-00> > > > Pisces      12-53-20> > > > Pisces      24-06-40> > > > Aries         5-33-20

> > > > Aries       18-06-40> > > > Aries      29-13-20> > > > Taurus     11-53-20> > > > Taurus     24-06-40

> > > > Gemini       6-40-00> > > > Cancer      1-20-00> > > > Cancer     24-06-40> >> > > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall

> > there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in> > constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is> > fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my

> > understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable> > rule.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM

> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there> > are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of

> > Moon and such birth chart i have seen already.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:

> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,

> > > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4> > births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next> > second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I

> > would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3> > degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying> > the rule in question while conducting BTR.

> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > mssumich mssumich >

> > > > Cc: @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > > > Re: BTR Theory

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear MS.> > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for> > Population Statistics.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html

> > > > ÂÂ> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ

> > =14708.95833 per hour> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ

> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ

> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the> > places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will

> > defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen> > charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree> > orb.> > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > mssumich mssumich >

> > > > BTR Theory> > > > " Senthil " athi_ram >> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > >> > > >

> > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many> > births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord

> > will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of> > the proof you gave is very clear.> > > >> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.

> > > > Thanks> > > > MS> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear TinWin,> > > >> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.

> > > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > >> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the

> > method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant)> > position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON> > position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the

> > world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect> > and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & > > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.

> > > >> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical> > example and thanks for the same.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > >

> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > >> >> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Punit,

I follow most of the methods discussed in the interesting New book published by K.Subramaniam,"Rectification of Birth Time"... one by one depending upon whether the one arrived at satisfies the results expected or confirms results already experienced,as per the Dasa-Bhukti-Antharas...

If the Given Birth Time,for correction is + or - 20 minutes from the true TOB...Mr.Shanmugham's 1st method works out to be very correct...I have modified this method over the years,to include the sub-sublords of the Ascendant to also apear as the Moon's sublord...

With kind regards,

Yogesh Lajmi

--- On Sun, 11/15/09, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:

Punit Pandey <punitpRe: Re: BTR Theory Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:22 PM

 

 

Dear Vijay ji,

 

I am not aware of any patent on the word "holistically" and hence used the word. By the way, your indirect comment is not appreciated because when I wanted to discuss the topic, you backed out and now this indirect comment which is trying to convey that the word "holistically" is a synonym with "absolutely correct". Whenever you have interest in discussing Double-Transit, would appreciate that you respond my questions in that topic which helps your point of view and hence take the discussion forward. My usage of word "holistically" doesn't add anything to that discussion, it doesn't make "holistically" a synonym for "correct."

 

Coming to Shanmugam ji method, I do not have any opinion to share with the forum. I personally do not use this method because I see no logic on various facets like why Ascendant sub and not Moon's sub? Why Moon's nakshatra but not Ascedant's nakshtra? I do not have any good logical explanation for myself and hence I do not use it. Though I also felt that all our discussion and study is mostly surrounding first point and not on all four points as suggested by Shanmugam ji. It also look like Lajmi ji also use first point only and not all four points most of the time. I didn't write about it earlier because of lack of interest in this topic. We would have discussed this topic 100+ times in the past and without any conclusion and hence no interest.

 

After so many discussions on this topic, I emphesize verification framework which is not very strong in KP. There is needed some simple and straight-forward way to verify whether the time is correct or not. In my opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about the rectification method.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

 

 

On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Punitji,//Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically//Nice to see the use of word Holistically .*****Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from KP experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all,I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself, its sub & sub sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star?II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ?I am expecting some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding from KP experts.Thanking you,Regards,Vijay GoelJaipur. @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Friends,> > Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous studies> (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the study> has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically, in my> opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr.> Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.> > I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record> purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all the> conditions (a to d)?> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey>

 

 

> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel goyalvj wrote:> > >> >> > Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,> >> > Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book "Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II" (M/s.> > Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :> >> > In his own words:> >> > *"If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or wrong, the> > method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or the> > Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth> > Star will be more correct."> >> > a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.> >> > *[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.> > I) 'X' could be moon's star.> > This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long

experience]*> >> > b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.> > *> > [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet 'Y',> > II) 'Y' could be moon's star> > III) Y's sub could be moon's star (*Take this planet as 'Z'* )]> >> > *c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level, which will> > be the Birth Star.> > i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then> > SubSub(Anthara) -and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama).> > This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.> > *> > [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that sub sub> > (SS) is not taken here.]*>

>> > d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a> > Star–Sub–SubSub– SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS), which> > should tell the Birth Star.> >> > *[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the moon's> > star.]*> >> >> > A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth (boopadhana) ,> > Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such> > circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone.> >> > As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four levels as> > explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the Birth> > Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to> > Sookshama level at times." *> >> > Just I want to say to

Senthilji that the statistical relation he had> > provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose other> > factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and> > probabilites ratio will increase.> >> > Thankyou,> > Regards,> > Vijay Goel> > Jaipur.> >> >> >> > @gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Senthil,> > >                  The objective is to confirm the> > correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned> > are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is

correct...> > >                  As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of> > Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...> > >                   BTR is as simple as that...> >> > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. Â> > >> > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > vijay.goel goyalvj@> >> > > Re: BTR Theory> > > @gro ups.com> > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM> > >> > >> > > Â> > >> > >>

> >> > >> > >> > > Dear Senthil ji,> > >> > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :> > >> > > Rule 3:> > > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P.> > method)....> > > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the> > sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord> > is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a> > female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."> > >> > > Rule 4 :> > >> > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given> > TOB...> > > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of> > the IXth cusp...> >

> Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul> > > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth> > > Ven - is chief significator of Kama> > > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am> > not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...> > >> > > ************ ***> > >> > > Thankyou,> > >> > > Best Wishes,> > > Vijay Goel> > > Jaipur.> > >> > > ---> > > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time> > being. We will talk about one

RULE first.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > RULE:1> > > > *********> > > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values> > up to Seconds)> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l> > explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with> > 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More> > FAILURE results noticed).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE?> > As you have already gone through

M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his> > methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points)ÂÂ> > about this RULE alone.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > RULE:2> > > > *********> >> > > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======> > > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a> > cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be> > ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from> > having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses> > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that> > time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth>

> Chart...and so on...> > > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= =ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Reply:> > > > ====> > > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE.> > Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many> > of them neither faced it nor remembers it.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Other RULES> > > > =========> > > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience> > wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not> > coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be> > so much

angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing,> > angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for> > your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling> > on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s> > review comments.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> > > > Re: Re: BTR

Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: "Senthil" athi_ram@ .>> > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > >> >                   You> > seem to be "at it" again...> > > >> >                   Why> > are you

deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research> > in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your> > point ?> > > >                 ÂÂ> > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule> > of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your> > knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched"> > -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..> >> > > >                  As> > said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you> > do not seem to have read my

mail to you,directly, refering your mail to> > Ms.Sujata Das...> > > >> >                   On> > this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that> > the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR> > that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly> > as per D/B/A/S ...? !> > > >                  I> > have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub> > level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub> > level...> > > >    ÂÂ

            ÂÂ> > With best wishes,> > > >                 ÂÂ> > Yogesh Lajmi.> > > >> >                                            ÂÂ> > GOOD LUCK !> >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >>

> > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: rathluther > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position> > in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac> > is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given> > below.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > >

>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Hr.No.> > > >> > > >> > > > RASI> > > >> > > >> > > > Sgn> > > >> > > >> > > > Str> > > >> > > >> > > > Sub> > > >> > > >> > > > Degree> > > >> > > > Diff.> > > >> > > >> > > > 1> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 000:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > >

>> > > >> > > > 2> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 000:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 3> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 003:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 4> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > >

>> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 003:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 5> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 004:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 6> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 005:33:20> > > >> > >

> 011:26:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 7> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 007:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 8> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 009:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 9> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > >

> MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 10> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 013:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 11> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 015:33:20> >

> >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 12> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 016:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 13> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 017:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 14> > > >> > > >

RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 018:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 15> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 020:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 16> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >>

> > > 021:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 17> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 024:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 18> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 025:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 19> >

> >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 026:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 20> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 027:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 21> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > >

> MAR> > > >> > > > 028:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 22> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 029:13:20> > > >> > > > 011:06:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 23> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 030:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >>

> > > 24> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 031:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 25> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 033:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 26> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN>

> > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 035:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 27> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 037:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 28> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 037:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> >

> >> > > >> > > > 29> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 040:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 30> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 041:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 31> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > >

>> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 041:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:53:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 32> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 043:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 33> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 045:40:00> > > >> > > >

ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 34> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 047:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 35> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 049:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 36> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >>

> > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 050:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 37> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 052:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 38> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > >

053:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 39> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 054:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 40> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 056:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 41> > > >> >

> > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 057:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 42> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 060:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 43> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> >

> >> > > > 061:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 44> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 062:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 45> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 064:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > >

> 46> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 065:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 47> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 066:40:00> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 48> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >>

> > > JUP> > > >> > > > 068:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 49> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 070:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 50> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 072:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> >

> >> > > > 51> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 074:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 52> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 075:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 53> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > >

> RAH> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 077:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 54> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 078:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 55> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 079:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ>

>> > > >> > > >> > > > 56> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 080:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 57> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 081:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 58> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > >

MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 083:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 59> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 085:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 60> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 086:33:20> > >

>> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 61> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 088:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 62> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 089:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 63> > > >> > > >

RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 090:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 64> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 090:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 65> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > RAH> > >

>> > > > 091:20:00> > > >> > > > 024:40:00> > > >> > > >> > > > 66> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 093:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 67> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 095:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 68>

> > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 097:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 69> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 098:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 70> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> >

> > SUN> > > >> > > > 100:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 71> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 101:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 72> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 102:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > >

>> > > > 73> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 102:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 74> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 104:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 75> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER>

> > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 106:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 76> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 108:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 77> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 109:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> >

> >> > > >> > > > 78> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 111:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 79> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 112:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 80> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > >

>> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 113:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 81> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 114:06:40> > > >> > > > 011:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 82> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 116:06:40> > > >> > > >

ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 83> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 117:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of> > RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you> > assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in> > degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min> > which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the> > average ascendant(lagna)

motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes> > upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours> > to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's> > relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no> > question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of> > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two> > consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it> > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that> > is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is> >

absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can> > happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can> > decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >

>> > > >> > > > Sir,> > > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as> > per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in> > various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the> > ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So> > now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when> > 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then> > deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > > > Capricorn 24-06-40> > > > Aquarius    6-40-00> > > > Pisces        1-20-00> > > >

Pisces      12-53-20> > > > Pisces      24-06-40> > > > Aries         5-33-20> > > > Aries       18-06-40> > > > Aries      29-13-20> > > > Taurus     11-53-20> > > > Taurus     24-06-40> > > > Gemini       6-40-00> > > > Cancer      1-20-00> > > > Cancer     24-06-40> >> > > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall> >

there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in> > constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is> > fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my> > understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable> > rule.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>

> > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there> > are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of> > Moon and such birth chart i have seen already.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > >

>> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4> > births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next> > second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I> > would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3> > degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying> > the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > Cc:

@gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > > > Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear MS.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for> > Population Statistics.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > ÂÂ> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births>

> > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > =14708.95833 per hour> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > > >> >   ÂÂ

                                           ÂÂ> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the> > places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will> > defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen> > charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree> > orb.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > ÂÂ> >

> > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > BTR Theory> > > > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many> > births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord> > will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of> > the proof you gave is very clear.> > > >> > > >

Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > > > Thanks> > > > MS> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear TinWin,> > > >> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > >> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the> > method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant)> > position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON> > position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the> > world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically

incorrect> > and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & > > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > >> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical> > example and thanks for the same.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > >> >> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends,BTR Theory is running from very past, more than three decades as a serious confusion. But so far no group was able to come to an end and unanimity with a reasonable solution.KP s of past have discussed.Now, we KPs are discussing.New comers will be discussed.till the end of the era.Are we justifiable to keep an endless discussion to the future?No, we should not. We must make a conclusion for this firing thread.We are KPs. We are following KP rules as it is. We have gained many successes with KP teachings.Then why we neglect the teachings of our Guruji?Shri KSK is the one and only profounder of RP system. In BTR/BTVR, he has mentioned several times, the correctness of RP. We can see many of examples, from the dates of KSK a

lot of sralwarts have boldly and bravely used RP system for rectification of birth time.Personally I suggest all members to follow first RP theory for BTR and if we fail to come toa conclusion, we may go ahead with any other theory.Befroe I finish this write up, I wish to reproduce some parts of an article appeared in A & A of July 1975, by Jyotish Kesari M.C.Khare Ji of Bhopal. for the consoderation of our learned members.//"My date of birth is not known, but it is near about the 3rd to 10th Dec. 1919. The time of birth is about dawn, as heared from some of my relatives, but I cant say positively. Though I subnitted one and the same data to many Astrologers, yet each of them differs. It is the "time"which will judge the things. I suppose, the otherwise, every astrologer claims to be true and rights, well, let me see what 1974 speaks of them. Hope yu would let me have the horoscope(prepared by you) with your concidered

prediction" Given above is thje version of the letter, I received from a reader of "Astrology and Athrishtra" from Punjab. He had been contacting various astrologers of the country from North to South, and as remarked by him he has received different replies from them. Some of the Astrologers have calculated his birth time and date as under....................................................................................................////Any Astrologer of the traditional school receiving such a letter would be hard put to undertake the task of setting up a true map of heavens at birth but this poses no difficult problem to those earnestly practising 'Krishnamurti Paddhati"////What our revered Guruji has said: " God will always be alert and be giving wonderful guidance to the astrologer..."////One of the greatest achievement of Krishnamurti Paddhati is its success in finding out that the "Ruling Planets"

reveal the truth and guide one to correctly predict. The Late Prof. K.S.Krishnamurti had proved that the "Ruling Planets" at the time of judgement at birth and also at the time of fructification of the event.//RegardsKalyanPunit Pandey <punitp Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 5:52:01 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory

 

 

 

Dear Vijay ji,

 

I am not aware of any patent on the word "holistically" and hence used the word. By the way, your indirect comment is not appreciated because when I wanted to discuss the topic, you backed out and now this indirect comment which is trying to convey that the word "holistically" is a synonym with "absolutely correct". Whenever you have interest in discussing Double-Transit, would appreciate that you respond my questions in that topic which helps your point of view and hence take the discussion forward. My usage of word "holistically" doesn't add anything to that discussion, it doesn't make "holistically" a synonym for "correct."

 

Coming to Shanmugam ji method, I do not have any opinion to share with the forum. I personally do not use this method because I see no logic on various facets like why Ascendant sub and not Moon's sub? Why Moon's nakshatra but not Ascedant's nakshtra? I do not have any good logical explanation for myself and hence I do not use it. Though I also felt that all our discussion and study is mostly surrounding first point and not on all four points as suggested by Shanmugam ji. It also look like Lajmi ji also use first point only and not all four points most of the time. I didn't write about it earlier because of lack of interest in this topic. We would have discussed this topic 100+ times in the past and without any conclusion and hence no interest.

 

After so many discussions on this topic, I emphesize verification framework which is not very strong in KP. There is needed some simple and straight-forward way to verify whether the time is correct or not. In my opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about the rectification method.

 

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

 

 

On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Punitji,//Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically//

Nice to see the use of word Holistically .*****Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from KP experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all,

I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself, its sub & sub sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star?II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ?

I am expecting some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding from KP experts.Thanking you,Regards,Vijay GoelJaipur. @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Friends,> > Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous studies

> (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the study> has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically, in my> opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr.

> Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.> > I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record> purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all the

> conditions (a to d)?> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey>

 

 

> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel goyalvj wrote:> > >> >> > Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,> >> > Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book "Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II" (M/s.

> > Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :> >> > In his own words:> >> > *"If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or wrong, the

> > method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or the> > Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth> > Star will be more correct."> >

> > a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.> >> > *[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.> > I) 'X' could be moon's star.> > This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]*

> >> > b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.> > *> > [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet 'Y',

> > II) 'Y' could be moon's star> > III) Y's sub could be moon's star (*Take this planet as 'Z'* )]> >> > *c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that

> > Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level, which will> > be the Birth Star.> > i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then> > SubSub(Anthara) -and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama).

> > This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.> > *> > [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that sub sub> > (SS) is not taken here.]*> >

> > d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a> > Star–Sub–SubSub– SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS), which> > should tell the Birth Star.> >> > *[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the moon's

> > star.]*> >> >> > A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth (boopadhana) ,> > Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such> > circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone.

> >> > As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four levels as> > explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the Birth> > Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to

> > Sookshama level at times." *> >> > Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had> > provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose other

> > factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and> > probabilites ratio will increase.> >> > Thankyou,> > Regards,> > Vijay Goel> > Jaipur.

> >> >> >> > @gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Senthil,

> > >                  The objective is to confirm the> > correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned> > are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct...

> > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of> > Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...> > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â BTR is as simple as that...> >

> > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. Â> > >> > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > vijay.goel goyalvj@

> >> > > Re: BTR Theory> > > @gro ups.com> > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM

> > >> > >> > > Â> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Senthil ji,> > >> > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :

> > >> > > Rule 3:> > > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P.> > method)....> > > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the

> > sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord> > is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a> > female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."

> > >> > > Rule 4 :> > >> > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given> > TOB...> > > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of

> > the IXth cusp...> > > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul> > > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth> > > Ven - is chief significator of Kama

> > > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am> > not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...> > >> > > ************ ***> > >

> > > Thankyou,> > >> > > Best Wishes,> > > Vijay Goel> > > Jaipur.> > >> > > ---> > > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:

> > > >> > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time> > being. We will talk about one RULE first.

> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > RULE:1> > > > *********> > > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord

> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values> > up to Seconds)> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l

> > explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with> > 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More> > FAILURE results noticed).> > > > ÂÂ

> > > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE?> > As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his> > methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points)ÂÂ

> > about this RULE alone.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > RULE:2> > > > *********> >> > > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======

> > > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a> > cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be> > ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from

> > having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses> > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that> > time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth

> > Chart...and so on...> > > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= =ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Reply:> > > > ====> > > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE.

> > Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many> > of them neither faced it nor remembers it.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Other RULES

> > > > =========> > > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience

> > wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not> > coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be> > so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing,

> > angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for> > your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling

> > on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s> > review comments.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil

> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > >> > > >

> > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > Cc: "Senthil" athi_ram@ .>> > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >

> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > >

> >                   You> > seem to be "at it" again...> > > >> >                   Why

> > are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research> > in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your> > point ?> > > >                 ÂÂ

> > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule> > of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your> > knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched"

> > -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..> >> > > >                  As> > said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you

> > do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to> > Ms.Sujata Das...> > > >> >                   On

> > this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that> > the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR> > that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly

> > as per D/B/A/S ...? !> > > >                  I> > have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub> > level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub

> > level...> > > >                 ÂÂ> > With best wishes,> > > >                 ÂÂ

> > Yogesh Lajmi.> > > >> >                                            ÂÂ

> > GOOD LUCK !> >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >

> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: rathluther > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM

> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,

> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position> > in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac

> > is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given> > below.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Hr.No.> > > >> > > >> > > > RASI> > > >> > > >> > > > Sgn

> > > >> > > >> > > > Str> > > >> > > >> > > > Sub> > > >> > > >> > > > Degree

> > > >> > > > Diff.> > > >> > > >> > > > 1> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 000:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 2> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >

> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 000:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 3> > > >

> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 003:00:00

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 4> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 003:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 5> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >

> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 004:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 6> > > >

> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 005:33:20

> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 7> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 007:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 8> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >

> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 009:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 9> > > >

> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 011:26:40

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 10> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 013:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 11> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >

> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 015:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 12> > > >

> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 016:13:20

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 13> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 017:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 14> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >

> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 018:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 15> > > >

> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 020:06:40

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 16> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 021:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 17> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >

> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 024:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 18> > > >

> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 025:53:20

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 19> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 026:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 20> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >

> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 027:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 21> > > >

> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 028:26:40

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 22> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 029:13:20> > > >> > > > 011:06:40> > > >

> > > >> > > > 23> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >

> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 030:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 24> > > >

> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 031:13:20

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 25> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 033:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 26> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >

> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 035:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 27> > > >

> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 037:00:00

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 28> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 037:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 29> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >

> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 040:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 30> > > >

> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 041:06:40

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 31> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 041:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:53:20> > > >

> > > >> > > > 32> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >

> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 043:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 33> > > >

> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 045:40:00

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 34> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 047:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 35> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >

> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 049:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 36> > > >

> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 050:26:40

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 37> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 052:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 38> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >

> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 053:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 39> > > >

> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 054:06:40

> > > >> > > > 012:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 40> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 056:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 41> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >

> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 057:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 42> > > >

> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 060:00:00

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 43> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER

> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 061:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 44> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >

> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 062:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 45> > > >

> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 064:53:20

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 46> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER

> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 065:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 47> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >

> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 066:40:00> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 48> > > >

> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 068:40:00

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 49> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER

> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 070:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 50> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >

> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 072:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 51> > > >

> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 074:26:40

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 52> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER

> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 075:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 53> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >

> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 077:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 54> > > >

> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 078:06:40

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 55> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER

> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 079:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 56> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >

> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 080:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 57> > > >

> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 081:46:40

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 58> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER

> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 083:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 59> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >

> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 085:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 60> > > >

> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 086:33:20

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 61> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER

> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 088:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 62> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >

> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 089:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 63> > > >

> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 090:00:00

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 64> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 090:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 65> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >

> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 091:20:00> > > >> > > > 024:40:00> > > >> > > >> > > > 66> > > >

> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 093:20:00

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 67> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 095:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 68> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >

> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 097:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 69> > > >

> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 098:06:40

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 70> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 100:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 71> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >

> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 101:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 72> > > >

> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 102:06:40

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 73> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 102:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:33:20> > > >

> > > >> > > > 74> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >

> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 104:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 75> > > >

> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 106:40:00

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 76> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 108:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 77> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >

> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 109:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 78> > > >

> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 111:33:20

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 79> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 112:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 80> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >

> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 113:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 81> > > >

> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 114:06:40

> > > >> > > > 011:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 82> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 116:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >

> > > >> > > > 83> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >

> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 117:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of

> > RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you> > assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in> > degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min

> > which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the> > average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes> > upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours

> > to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's> > relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no

> > question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of> > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two

> > consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it> > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that> > is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is

> > absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can> > happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can> > decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:

> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Sir,

> > > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as> > per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in> > various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the

> > ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So> > now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when> > 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then

> > deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > > > Capricorn 24-06-40> > > > Aquarius    6-40-00

> > > > Pisces        1-20-00> > > > Pisces      12-53-20> > > > Pisces      24-06-40> > > > Aries         5-33-20

> > > > Aries       18-06-40> > > > Aries      29-13-20> > > > Taurus     11-53-20> > > > Taurus     24-06-40

> > > > Gemini       6-40-00> > > > Cancer      1-20-00> > > > Cancer     24-06-40> >> > > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall

> > there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in> > constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is> > fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my

> > understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable> > rule.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM

> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there> > are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of

> > Moon and such birth chart i have seen already.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:

> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,

> > > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4> > births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next> > second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I

> > would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3> > degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying> > the rule in question while conducting BTR.

> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > mssumich mssumich >

> > > > Cc: @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > > > Re: BTR Theory

> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear MS.> > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for> > Population Statistics.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html

> > > > ÂÂ> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ

> > =14708.95833 per hour> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ

> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ

> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the> > places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will

> > defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen> > charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree> > orb.> > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > mssumich mssumich >

> > > > BTR Theory> > > > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > >> > > >

> > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many> > births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord

> > will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of> > the proof you gave is very clear.> > > >> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.

> > > > Thanks> > > > MS> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear TinWin,> > > >> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.

> > > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > >> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the

> > method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant)> > position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON> > position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the

> > world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect> > and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & > > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.

> > > >> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical> > example and thanks for the same.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > >

> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > >> >> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Punitji,

 

//In my opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking

about the rectification method.//

 

Very true ! i completely agree on it.

 

I appreciate your hard work and straight attitude.

 

I feel that their is some logic in SS, SSS as Late Shanmugam ji is specifically

mentioned in points b) to d), Else he would had described it in a more simpler

way.

 

May be i am thinking in the wrong direction.

 

Thankyou,

Regards,

Vijay Goel

Jaipur.

 

 

, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:

>

> Dear Vijay ji,

>

> I am not aware of any patent on the word " holistically " and hence used the

> word. By the way, your indirect comment is not appreciated because when I

> wanted to discuss the topic, you backed out and now this indirect comment

> which is trying to convey that the word " holistically " is a synonym with

> " absolutely correct " . Whenever you have interest in discussing

> Double-Transit, would appreciate that you respond my questions in that topic

> which helps your point of view and hence take the discussion forward. My

> usage of word " holistically " doesn't add anything to that discussion, it

> doesn't make " holistically " a synonym for " correct. "

>

> Coming to Shanmugam ji method, I do not have any opinion to share with the

> forum. I personally do not use this method because I see no logic on various

> facets like why Ascendant sub and not Moon's sub? Why Moon's nakshatra but

> not Ascedant's nakshtra? I do not have any good logical explanation for

> myself and hence I do not use it. Though I also felt that all our discussion

> and study is mostly surrounding first point and not on all four points as

> suggested by Shanmugam ji. It also look like Lajmi ji also use first point

> only and not all four points most of the time. I didn't write about it

> earlier because of lack of interest in this topic. We would have discussed

> this topic 100+ times in the past and without any conclusion and hence no

> interest.

>

> After so many discussions on this topic, I emphesize verification framework

> which is not very strong in KP. There is needed some simple and

> straight-forward way to verify whether the time is correct or not. In my

> opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about

> the rectification method.

>

> Thanks & Regards,

>

> Punit Pandey

>

>

> On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM, vijay.goel <goyalvj wrote:

> >

> >>

> >>

> >> Dear Punitji,

> >>

> >> //Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam *holistically*//

> >>

> >> Nice to see the use of word Holistically .

> >>

> >> *****

> >>

> >> Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from KP

> >> experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all,

> >>

> >> I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself, its sub &

> >> sub sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star?

> >> II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ?

> >>

> >> I am expecting some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding

> >> from KP experts.

> >>

> >> Thanking you,

> >> Regards,

> >> Vijay Goel

> >> Jaipur.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> , Punit Pandey <punitp@> wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Dear Friends,

> >> >

> >> > Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous

> >> studies

> >> > (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the

> >> study

> >> > has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically, in

> >> my

> >> > opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr.

> >> > Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.

> >> >

> >> > I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record

> >> > purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all the

> >> > conditions (a to d)?

> >> >

> >> > Thanks & Regards,

> >> >

> >> > Punit Pandey

> >> >

> >> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:

> >> >

> >> > >

> >> > >

> >> > > Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,

> >> > >

> >> > > Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book " Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II "

> >> (M/s.

> >> > > Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :

> >> > >

> >> > > In his own words:

> >> > >

> >> > > * " If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or

> >> wrong, the

> >> > > method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or

> >> the

> >> > > Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth

> >> > > Star will be more correct. "

> >> > >

> >> > > a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.

> >> > >

> >> > > *[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.

> >> > > I) 'X' could be moon's star.

> >> > > This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]*

> >> > >

> >> > > b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that

> >> > > Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.

> >> > > *

> >> > > [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet

> >> 'Y',

> >> > > II) 'Y' could be moon's star

> >> > > III) Y's sub could be moon's star (*Take this planet as 'Z'* )]

> >> > >

> >> > > *c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that

> >> > > Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level,

> >> which will

> >> > > be the Birth Star.

> >> > > i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then

> >> > > SubSub(Anthara)-and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama).

> >> > > This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.

> >> > > *

> >> > > [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that

> >> sub sub

> >> > > (SS) is not taken here.]*

> >> > >

> >> > > d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a

> >> > > Star–Sub–SubSub–SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS), which

> >> > > should tell the Birth Star.

> >> > >

> >> > > *[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the

> >> moon's

> >> > > star.]*

> >> > >

> >> > >

> >> > > A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth

> >> (boopadhana),

> >> > > Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such

> >> > > circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone.

> >> > >

> >> > > As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four

> >> levels as

> >> > > explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the

> >> Birth

> >> > > Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to

> >> > > Sookshama level at times. " *

> >> > >

> >> > > Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had

> >> > > provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose

> >> other

> >> > > factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and

> >> > > probabilites ratio will increase.

> >> > >

> >> > > Thankyou,

> >> > > Regards,

> >> > > Vijay Goel

> >> > > Jaipur.

> >> > >

> >> > >

> >> > >

> >> > > , Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:

> >> > > >

> >> > > > Dear Senthil,

> >> > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â The objective is to confirm the

> >> > > correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules

> >> mentioned

> >> > > are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct...

> >> > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â As said by Vijayji,the gender rule

> >> of

> >> > > Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...

> >> > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â BTR is as simple as that...

> >> > >

> >> > > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. Â

> >> > > >

> >> > > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:

> >> > > >

> >> > > >

> >> > > > vijay.goel goyalvj@

> >> > >

> >> > > > Re: BTR Theory

> >> > > >

> >> > > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM

> >> > > >

> >> > > >

> >> > > > Â

> >> > > >

> >> > > >

> >> > > >

> >> > > >

> >> > > >

> >> > > > Dear Senthil ji,

> >> > > >

> >> > > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :

> >> > > >

> >> > > > Rule 3:

> >> > > > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P.

> >> > > method)....

> >> > > > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : " If the

> >> > > sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose

> >> lord

> >> > > is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in

> >> a

> >> > > female sign,then the chart is of a female child... "

> >> > > >

> >> > > > Rule 4 :

> >> > > >

> >> > > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given

> >> > > TOB...

> >> > > > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or

> >> s/l of

> >> > > the IXth cusp...

> >> > > > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul

> >> > > > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth

> >> > > > Ven - is chief significator of Kama

> >> > > > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if

> >> I am

> >> > > not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...

> >> > > >

> >> > > > ************ ***

> >> > > >

> >> > > > Thankyou,

> >> > > >

> >> > > > Best Wishes,

> >> > > > Vijay Goel

> >> > > > Jaipur.

> >> > > >

> >> > > > ---

> >> > > > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules

> >> time

> >> > > being. We will talk about one RULE first.

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > > RULE:1

> >> > > > > *********

> >> > > > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer

> >> values

> >> > > up to Seconds)

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l

> >> > > explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also

> >> studied with

> >> > > 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More

> >> > > FAILURE results noticed).

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working

> >> FINE?

> >> > > As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood

> >> his

> >> > > methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet

> >> points)ÂÂ

> >> > > about this RULE alone.

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > > RULE:2

> >> > > > > *********

> >> > >

> >> > > > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== =========

> >> ======

> >> > > > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one

> >> gets a

> >> > > cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII

> >> will be

> >> > > ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from

> >> > > having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the

> >> houses

> >> > > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that

> >> > > time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a

> >> Birth

> >> > > Chart...and so on...

> >> > > > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= =========

> >> =ÂÂ

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > > Reply:

> >> > > > > ====

> >> > > > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a

> >> RULE.

> >> > > Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And

> >> many

> >> > > of them neither faced it nor remembers it.

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > > Other RULES

> >> > > > > =========

> >> > > > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience

> >> > > wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and

> >> not

> >> > > coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You

> >> may be

> >> > > so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing,

> >> > > angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head

> >> for

> >> > > your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal

> >> feeling

> >> > > on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s

> >> > > review comments.

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > > D.Senthil

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>

> >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory

> >> > > > > @gro ups.com

> >> > > > > Cc: " Senthil " athi_ram@ .>

> >> > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Dear Senthil,

> >> > > > >

> >> > >                 ÂÂ

> >>  You

> >> > > seem to be " at it " again...

> >> > > > >

> >> > >                 ÂÂ

> >>  Why

> >> > > are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in

> >> research

> >> > > in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove

> >> your

> >> > > point ?

> >> > > > >                ÂÂ

> >> ÂÂ

> >> > > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one

> >> rule

> >> > > of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your

> >> > > knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well- " researched "

> >> > > -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..

> >> > >

> >> > > > >                ÂÂ

> >>  As

> >> > > said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and

> >> you

> >> > > do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail

> >> to

> >> > > Ms.Sujata Das...

> >> > > > >

> >> > >                 ÂÂ

> >>  On

> >> > > this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated

> >> that

> >> > > the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same

> >> BTR

> >> > > that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events

> >> correctly

> >> > > as per D/B/A/S ...? !

> >> > > > >                ÂÂ

> >>  I

> >> > > have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the

> >> sub-sub

> >> > > level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even

> >> sub-sub-sub

> >> > > level...

> >> > > > >                ÂÂ

> >> ÂÂ

> >> > > With best wishes,

> >> > > > >                ÂÂ

> >> ÂÂ

> >> > > Yogesh Lajmi.

> >> > > > >

> >> > >                 ÂÂ

> >>                   ÂÂ

> >>        ÂÂ

> >> > > GOOD LUCK !

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Senthil athi_ram >

> >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory

> >> > > > > @gro ups.com

> >> > > > > Cc: rathluther

> >> > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star

> >> position

> >> > > in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the

> >> zodiac

> >> > > is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are

> >> given

> >> > > below.

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Hr.No.

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RASI

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Sgn

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Str

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Sub

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Degree

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Diff.

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 1

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA1

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MAR

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > KET

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > KET

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 000:00:00

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 2

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA1

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MAR

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > KET

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > VEN

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 000:46:40

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 3

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA1

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MAR

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > KET

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > SUN

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 003:00:00

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 4

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA1

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MAR

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > KET

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MOO

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 003:40:00

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 5

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA1

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MAR

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > KET

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MAR

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 004:46:40

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 6

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA1

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MAR

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > KET

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RAH

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 005:33:20

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 011:26:40

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 7

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA1

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MAR

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > KET

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > JUP

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 007:33:20

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 8

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA1

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MAR

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > KET

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > SAT

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 009:20:00

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 9

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA1

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MAR

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > KET

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MER

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 011:26:40

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 10

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA1

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MAR

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > VEN

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > VEN

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 013:20:00

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 11

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA1

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MAR

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > VEN

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > SUN

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 015:33:20

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 12

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA1

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MAR

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > VEN

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MOO

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 016:13:20

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 13

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA1

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MAR

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > VEN

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MAR

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 017:20:00

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 14

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA1

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MAR

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > VEN

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RAH

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 018:06:40

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 012:33:20

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 15

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA1

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MAR

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > VEN

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > JUP

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 020:06:40

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 16

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA1

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MAR

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > VEN

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > SAT

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 021:53:20

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 17

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA1

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MAR

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > VEN

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MER

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 024:00:00

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 18

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA1

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MAR

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > VEN

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > KET

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 025:53:20

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 19

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA1

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MAR

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > SUN

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> >> > > > > MOO

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MER

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > VEN

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 109:20:00

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 78

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA4

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MOO

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MER

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > SUN

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 111:33:20

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 79

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA4

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MOO

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MER

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MOO

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 112:13:20

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 80

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA4

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MOO

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MER

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MAR

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 113:20:00

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 81

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA4

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MOO

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MER

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RAH

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 114:06:40

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 011:13:20

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 82

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA4

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MOO

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MER

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > JUP

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 116:06:40

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 83

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > RA4

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MOO

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > MER

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > SAT

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 117:53:20

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive

> >> occurrence of

> >> > > RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you

> >> > > assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest

> >> difference in

> >> > > degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour

> >> 44Min

> >> > > which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have

> >> assumed the

> >> > > average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it

> >> dependes

> >> > > upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than

> >> 2hours

> >> > > to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord &

> >> it's

> >> > > relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no

> >> > > question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of

> >> > > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two

> >> > > consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But

> >> now it

> >> > > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that

> >> > > is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This

> >> is

> >> > > absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth

> >> can

> >> > > happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can

> >> > > decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > > D.Senthil

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>

> >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory

> >> > > > > @gro ups.com

> >> > > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Sir,

> >> > > > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini.

> >> So as

> >> > > per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in

> >> > > various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this

> >> the

> >> > > ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury.

> >> So

> >> > > now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place

> >> when

> >> > > 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises.

> >> Then

> >> > > deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.

> >> > > > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-

> >> > > > > Capricorn 24-06-40

> >> > > > > Aquarius    6-40-00

> >> > > > > Pisces        1-20-00

> >> > > > > Pisces      12-53-20

> >> > > > > Pisces      24-06-40

> >> > > > > Aries         5-33-20

> >> > > > > Aries       18-06-40

> >> > > > > Aries      29-13-20

> >> > > > > Taurus     11-53-20

> >> > > > > Taurus     24-06-40

> >> > > > > Gemini       6-40-00

> >> > > > > Cancer      1-20-00

> >> > > > > Cancer     24-06-40

> >> > >

> >> > > > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today?

> >> Shall

> >> > > there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in

> >> > > constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is

> >> > > fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my

> >> > > understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this

> >> acceptable

> >> > > rule.

> >> > > > > Dr. Rath

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Senthil athi_ram >

> >> > > > > @gro ups.com

> >> > > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM

> >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that

> >> there

> >> > > are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the

> >> position of

> >> > > Moon and such birth chart i have seen already.

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > > D.Senthil

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>

> >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory

> >> > > > > @gro ups.com

> >> > > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Dear Senthil,

> >> > > > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4

> >> > > births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in

> >> next

> >> > > second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize

> >> this. I

> >> > > would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to

> >> 3

> >> > > degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while

> >> applying

> >> > > the rule in question while conducting BTR.

> >> > > > > Dr. Rath

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Senthil athi_ram >

> >> > > > > mssumich mssumich >

> >> > > > > Cc: @gro ups.com

> >> > > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM

> >> > > > > Re: BTR Theory

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Dear MS.

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below

> >> for

> >> > > Population Statistics.

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births

> >> > > > >

> >> > >                 ÂÂ

> >>                   ÂÂ

> >>           ÂÂ

> >> > > =14708.95833 per hour

> >> > > > >

> >> > >                 ÂÂ

> >>                   ÂÂ

> >>           ÂÂ

> >> > > = 245.1493056 per minute

> >> > > > >

> >> > >                 ÂÂ

> >>                   ÂÂ

> >>           ÂÂ

> >> > > = 4.085821759 per second.

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of

> >> the

> >> > > places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place

> >> will

> >> > > defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have

> >> seen

> >> > > charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within

> >> 3degree

> >> > > orb.

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > > Hope the above gives the required information.

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > > > > D.Senthil

> >> > > > > ÂÂ

> >> > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > mssumich mssumich >

> >> > > > > BTR Theory

> >> > > > > " Senthil " athi_ram >

> >> > > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Dear Shri Senthil

> >> > > > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so

> >> many

> >> > > births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc

> >> sublord

> >> > > will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math

> >> part of

> >> > > the proof you gave is very clear.

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.

> >> > > > > Thanks

> >> > > > > MS

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Dear TinWin,

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.

> >> > > > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the

> >> > > method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant)

> >> > > position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON

> >> > > position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the

> >> > > world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically

> >> incorrect

> >> > > and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON &

> >> > > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical

> >> > > example and thanks for the same.

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > D.Senthil

> >> > > > >

> >> > > >

> >> > >

> >> > >

> >> > >

> >> >

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Respected Yogeshji,

 

I have asked the local bookseller for this book.

I am eagerly waiting for it.

 

Thankyou,

Regards,

Vijay Goel

Jaipur.

 

 

, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote:

>

> Dear Punit,

>                 I follow most of the methods discussed in the

interesting New book published by K.Subramaniam, " Rectification of Birth Time " ...

one by one depending upon whether the one arrived at satisfies the results

expected or confirms results already experienced,as per the

Dasa-Bhukti-Antharas...

>                 If the Given Birth Time,for correction is + or

- 20 minutes from the true TOB...Mr.Shanmugham's 1st method works out to be very

correct...I have modified this method over the years,to include the sub-sublords

of the Ascendant to also apear as the Moon's sublord...

>                With kind regards,

>                Yogesh Lajmi

>     

>

> --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:

>

>

> Punit Pandey <punitp

> Re: Re: BTR Theory

>

> Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:22 PM

>

>

>  

>

>

>

>

>

> Dear Vijay ji,

>  

> I am not aware of any patent on the word " holistically " and hence used the

word. By the way, your indirect comment is not appreciated because when I wanted

to discuss the topic, you backed out and now this indirect comment which is

trying to convey that the word " holistically " is a synonym with " absolutely

correct " . Whenever you have interest in discussing Double-Transit, would

appreciate that you respond my questions in that topic which helps your point of

view and hence take the discussion forward. My usage of word " holistically "

doesn't add anything to that discussion, it doesn't make " holistically " a

synonym for " correct. "

>  

> Coming to Shanmugam ji method, I do not have any opinion to share with the

forum. I personally do not use this method because I see no logic on various

facets like why Ascendant sub and not Moon's sub? Why Moon's nakshatra but not

Ascedant's nakshtra? I do not have any good logical explanation for myself and

hence I do not use it. Though I also felt that all our discussion and study is

mostly surrounding first point and not on all four points as suggested by

Shanmugam ji. It also look like Lajmi ji also use first point only and not all

four points most of the time. I didn't write about it earlier because of lack of

interest in this topic. We would have discussed this topic 100+ times in the

past and without any conclusion and hence no interest.

>  

> After so many discussions on this topic, I emphesize verification framework

which is not very strong in KP. There is needed some simple and

straight-forward way to verify whether the time is correct or not. In my

opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about the

rectification method.

>

> Thanks & Regards,

>

> Punit Pandey

>

>

>

>

>

> On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

>  

>

>

>

> Dear Punitji,

>

> //Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically//

>

> Nice to see the use of word Holistically .

>

> *****

>

> Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from KP

experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all,

>

> I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself,  its sub & sub

sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star?

> II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ?

>

> I am expecting  some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding from

KP experts.

>

> Thanking you,

> Regards,

> Vijay Goel

> Jaipur.

>

>  

>

>

> @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Friends,

> >

> > Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous studies

> > (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the study

> > has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically, in my

> > opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr.

> > Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.

> >

> > I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record

> > purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all the

> > conditions (a to d)?

> >

> > Thanks & Regards,

> >

> > Punit Pandey

> >

>

>

>

> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,

> > >

> > > Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book " Astro-Secrets and KP†" Part II "

(M/s.

> > > Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :

> > >

> > > In his own words:

> > >

> > > * " If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or wrong,

the

> > > method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or the

> > > Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth

> > > Star will be more correct. "

> > >

> > > a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.

> > >

> > > *[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.

> > > I) 'X' could be moon's star.

> > > This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]*

> > >

> > > b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that

> > > Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.

> > > *

> > > [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet 'Y',

> > > II) 'Y' could be moon's star

> > > III) Y's sub could be moon's star (*Take this planet as 'Z'* )]

> > >

> > > *c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that

> > > Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level, which

will

> > > be the Birth Star.

> > > i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then

> > > SubSub(Anthara) -and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama).

> > > This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.

> > > *

> > > [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that sub

sub

> > > (SS) is not taken here.]*

> > >

> > > d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a

> > > Star†" Sub†" SubSub†" SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS),

which

> > > should tell the Birth Star.

> > >

> > > *[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the moon's

> > > star.]*

> > >

> > >

> > > A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth (boopadhana) ,

> > > Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such

> > > circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone.

> > >

> > > As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four levels as

> > > explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the Birth

> > > Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to

> > > Sookshama level at times. " *

> > >

> > > Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had

> > > provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose other

> > > factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and

> > > probabilites ratio will increase.

> > >

> > > Thankyou,

> > > Regards,

> > > Vijay Goel

> > > Jaipur.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > @gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Senthil,

> > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â The objective is to

confirm the

> > > correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned

> > > are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct...

> > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â As said by

Vijayji,the gender rule of

> > > Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...

> > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â BTR is as simple

as that...

> > >

> > > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. Â

> > > >

> > > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > vijay.goel goyalvj@

> > >

> > > > Re: BTR Theory

> > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Â

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Senthil ji,

> > > >

> > > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :

> > > >

> > > > Rule 3:

> > > > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P.

> > > method)....

> > > > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : " If the

> > > sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord

> > > is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a

> > > female sign,then the chart is of a female child... "

> > > >

> > > > Rule 4 :

> > > >

> > > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given

> > > TOB...

> > > > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l

of

> > > the IXth cusp...

> > > > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul

> > > > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth

> > > > Ven - is chief significator of Kama

> > > > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am

> > > not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...

> > > >

> > > > ************ ***

> > > >

> > > > Thankyou,

> > > >

> > > > Best Wishes,

> > > > Vijay Goel

> > > > Jaipur.

> > > >

> > > > ---

> > > > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules

time

> > > being. We will talk about one RULE first.

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > > RULE:1

> > > > > *********

> > > > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer

values

> > > up to Seconds)

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l

> > > explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied

with

> > > 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More

> > > FAILURE results noticed).

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is

working FINE?

> > > As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood

his

> > > methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet

points)ÂÂ

> > > about this RULE alone.

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > > RULE:2

> > > > > *********

> > >

> > > > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== =========

======

> > > > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one

gets a

> > > cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be

> > > ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from

> > > having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses

> > > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that

> > > time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a

Birth

> > > Chart...and so on...

> > > > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= =========

=ÂÂ

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > > Reply:

> > > > > ====

> > > > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a

RULE.

> > > Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And

many

> > > of them neither faced it nor remembers it.

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > > Other RULES

> > > > > =========

> > > > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience

> > > wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not

> > > coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may

be

> > > so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all yourÂÂ

firing,

> > > angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for

> > > your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal

feeling

> > > on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s

> > > review comments.

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > > GOOD LUCK!

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > > D.Senthil

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>

> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory

> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > > Cc: " Senthil " athi_ram@ .>

> > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Senthil,

> > > > >

> > >         ÂÂ

         You

> > > seem to be " at it " again...

> > > > >

> > >         ÂÂ

         Why

> > > are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research

> > > in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your

> > > point ?

> > > > >        ÂÂ

        ÂÂ

> > > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule

> > > of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your

> > > knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well- " researched "

> > > -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..

> > >

> > > > >        ÂÂ

         As

> > > said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you

> > > do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to

> > > Ms.Sujata Das...

> > > > >

> > >         ÂÂ

         On

> > > this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that

> > > the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR

> > > that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly

> > > as per D/B/A/S ...? !

> > > > >        ÂÂ

         I

> > > have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub

> > > level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even

sub-sub-sub

> > > level...

> > > > >        ÂÂ

        ÂÂ

> > > With best wishes,

> > > > >        ÂÂ

        ÂÂ

> > > Yogesh Lajmi.

> > > > >

> > >         ÂÂ

         ÂÂ

         ÂÂ

         ÂÂ

    ÂÂ

> > > GOOD LUCK !

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Senthil athi_ram >

> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory

> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > > Cc: rathluther

> > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position

> > > in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac

> > > is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are

given

> > > below.

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Hr.No.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > RASI

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Sgn

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Str

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Sub

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Degree

> > > > >

> > > > > Diff.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 1

> > > > >

> > > > > RA1

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > KET

> > > > >

> > > > > KET

> > > > >

> > > > > 000:00:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 2

> > > > >

> > > > > RA1

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > KET

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > 000:46:40

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 3

> > > > >

> > > > > RA1

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > KET

> > > > >

> > > > > SUN

> > > > >

> > > > > 003:00:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 4

> > > > >

> > > > > RA1

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > KET

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > 003:40:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 5

> > > > >

> > > > > RA1

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > KET

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > 004:46:40

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 6

> > > > >

> > > > > RA1

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > KET

> > > > >

> > > > > RAH

> > > > >

> > > > > 005:33:20

> > > > >

> > > > > 011:26:40

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 7

> > > > >

> > > > > RA1

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > KET

> > > > >

> > > > > JUP

> > > > >

> > > > > 007:33:20

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 8

> > > > >

> > > > > RA1

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > KET

> > > > >

> > > > > SAT

> > > > >

> > > > > 009:20:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 9

> > > > >

> > > > > RA1

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > KET

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > 011:26:40

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 10

> > > > >

> > > > > RA1

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > 013:20:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 11

> > > > >

> > > > > RA1

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > SUN

> > > > >

> > > > > 015:33:20

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 12

> > > > >

> > > > > RA1

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > 016:13:20

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 13

> > > > >

> > > > > RA1

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > 017:20:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 14

> > > > >

> > > > > RA1

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > RAH

> > > > >

> > > > > 018:06:40

> > > > >

> > > > > 012:33:20

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 15

> > > > >

> > > > > RA1

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > JUP

> > > > >

> > > > > 020:06:40

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 16

> > > > >

> > > > > RA1

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > SAT

> > > > >

> > > > > 021:53:20

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 17

> > > > >

> > > > > RA1

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > 024:00:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 18

> > > > >

> > > > > RA1

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > KET

> > > > >

> > > > > 025:53:20

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 19

> > > > >

> > > > > RA1

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > SUN

> > > > >

> > > > > SUN

> > > > >

> > > > > 026:40:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 20

> > > > >

> > > > > RA1

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > SUN

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > 027:20:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 21

> > > > >

> > > > > RA1

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > SUN

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > 028:26:40

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 22

> > > > >

> > > > > RA1

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > SUN

> > > > >

> > > > > RAH

> > > > >

> > > > > 029:13:20

> > > > >

> > > > > 011:06:40

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 23

> > > > >

> > > > > RA2

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > SUN

> > > > >

> > > > > RAH

> > > > >

> > > > > 030:00:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 24

> > > > >

> > > > > RA2

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > SUN

> > > > >

> > > > > JUP

> > > > >

> > > > > 031:13:20

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 25

> > > > >

> > > > > RA2

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > SUN

> > > > >

> > > > > SAT

> > > > >

> > > > > 033:00:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 26

> > > > >

> > > > > RA2

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > SUN

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > 035:06:40

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 27

> > > > >

> > > > > RA2

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > SUN

> > > > >

> > > > > KET

> > > > >

> > > > > 037:00:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 28

> > > > >

> > > > > RA2

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > SUN

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > 037:46:40

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 29

> > > > >

> > > > > RA2

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > 040:00:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 30

> > > > >

> > > > > RA2

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > 041:06:40

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 31

> > > > >

> > > > > RA2

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > RAH

> > > > >

> > > > > 041:53:20

> > > > >

> > > > > 011:53:20

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 32

> > > > >

> > > > > RA2

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > JUP

> > > > >

> > > > > 043:53:20

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 33

> > > > >

> > > > > RA2

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > SAT

> > > > >

> > > > > 045:40:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 34

> > > > >

> > > > > RA2

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > 047:46:40

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 35

> > > > >

> > > > > RA2

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > KET

> > > > >

> > > > > 049:40:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 36

> > > > >

> > > > > RA2

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > 050:26:40

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 37

> > > > >

> > > > > RA2

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > SUN

> > > > >

> > > > > 052:40:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 38

> > > > >

> > > > > RA2

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > 053:20:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 39

> > > > >

> > > > > RA2

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > RAH

> > > > >

> > > > > 054:06:40

> > > > >

> > > > > 012:13:20

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 40

> > > > >

> > > > > RA2

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > JUP

> > > > >

> > > > > 056:06:40

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 41

> > > > >

> > > > > RA2

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > SAT

> > > > >

> > > > > 057:53:20

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 42

> > > > >

> > > > > RA3

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > 060:00:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 43

> > > > >

> > > > > RA3

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > KET

> > > > >

> > > > > 061:53:20

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 44

> > > > >

> > > > > RA3

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > 062:40:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 45

> > > > >

> > > > > RA3

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > SUN

> > > > >

> > > > > 064:53:20

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 46

> > > > >

> > > > > RA3

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > 065:33:20

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 47

> > > > >

> > > > > RA3

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > RAH

> > > > >

> > > > > RAH

> > > > >

> > > > > 066:40:00

> > > > >

> > > > > 012:33:20

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 48

> > > > >

> > > > > RA3

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > RAH

> > > > >

> > > > > JUP

> > > > >

> > > > > 068:40:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 49

> > > > >

> > > > > RA3

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > RAH

> > > > >

> > > > > SAT

> > > > >

> > > > > 070:26:40

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 50

> > > > >

> > > > > RA3

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > RAH

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > 072:33:20

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 51

> > > > >

> > > > > RA3

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > RAH

> > > > >

> > > > > KET

> > > > >

> > > > > 074:26:40

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 52

> > > > >

> > > > > RA3

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > RAH

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > 075:13:20

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 53

> > > > >

> > > > > RA3

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > RAH

> > > > >

> > > > > SUN

> > > > >

> > > > > 077:26:40

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 54

> > > > >

> > > > > RA3

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > RAH

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > 078:06:40

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 55

> > > > >

> > > > > RA3

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > RAH

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > 079:13:20

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 56

> > > > >

> > > > > RA3

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > JUP

> > > > >

> > > > > JUP

> > > > >

> > > > > 080:00:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 57

> > > > >

> > > > > RA3

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > JUP

> > > > >

> > > > > SAT

> > > > >

> > > > > 081:46:40

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 58

> > > > >

> > > > > RA3

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > JUP

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > 083:53:20

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 59

> > > > >

> > > > > RA3

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > JUP

> > > > >

> > > > > KET

> > > > >

> > > > > 085:46:40

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 60

> > > > >

> > > > > RA3

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > JUP

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > 086:33:20

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 61

> > > > >

> > > > > RA3

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > JUP

> > > > >

> > > > > SUN

> > > > >

> > > > > 088:46:40

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 62

> > > > >

> > > > > RA3

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > JUP

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > 089:26:40

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 63

> > > > >

> > > > > RA4

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > JUP

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > 090:00:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 64

> > > > >

> > > > > RA4

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > JUP

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > 090:33:20

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 65

> > > > >

> > > > > RA4

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > JUP

> > > > >

> > > > > RAH

> > > > >

> > > > > 091:20:00

> > > > >

> > > > > 024:40:00

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 66

> > > > >

> > > > > RA4

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > SAT

> > > > >

> > > > > SAT

> > > > >

> > > > > 093:20:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 67

> > > > >

> > > > > RA4

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > SAT

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > 095:26:40

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 68

> > > > >

> > > > > RA4

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > SAT

> > > > >

> > > > > KET

> > > > >

> > > > > 097:20:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 69

> > > > >

> > > > > RA4

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > SAT

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > 098:06:40

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 70

> > > > >

> > > > > RA4

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > SAT

> > > > >

> > > > > SUN

> > > > >

> > > > > 100:20:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 71

> > > > >

> > > > > RA4

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > SAT

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > 101:00:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 72

> > > > >

> > > > > RA4

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > SAT

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > 102:06:40

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 73

> > > > >

> > > > > RA4

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > SAT

> > > > >

> > > > > RAH

> > > > >

> > > > > 102:53:20

> > > > >

> > > > > 011:33:20

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 74

> > > > >

> > > > > RA4

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > SAT

> > > > >

> > > > > JUP

> > > > >

> > > > > 104:53:20

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 75

> > > > >

> > > > > RA4

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > 106:40:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 76

> > > > >

> > > > > RA4

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > KET

> > > > >

> > > > > 108:33:20

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 77

> > > > >

> > > > > RA4

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > VEN

> > > > >

> > > > > 109:20:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 78

> > > > >

> > > > > RA4

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > SUN

> > > > >

> > > > > 111:33:20

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 79

> > > > >

> > > > > RA4

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > 112:13:20

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 80

> > > > >

> > > > > RA4

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > MAR

> > > > >

> > > > > 113:20:00

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 81

> > > > >

> > > > > RA4

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > RAH

> > > > >

> > > > > 114:06:40

> > > > >

> > > > > 011:13:20

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 82

> > > > >

> > > > > RA4

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > JUP

> > > > >

> > > > > 116:06:40

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 83

> > > > >

> > > > > RA4

> > > > >

> > > > > MOO

> > > > >

> > > > > MER

> > > > >

> > > > > SAT

> > > > >

> > > > > 117:53:20

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of

> > > RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you

> > > assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest

difference in

> > > degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour

44Min

> > > which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed

the

> > > average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes

> > > upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than

2hours

> > > to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord &

it's

> > > relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no

> > > question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of

> > > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap betweenÂÂ

two

> > > consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But

now it

> > > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that

> > > is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This

is

> > > absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can

> > > happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can

> > > decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > > GOOD LUCK!

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > > D.Senthil

> > > > >

> > > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>

> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory

> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Sir,

> > > > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as

> > > per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in

> > > various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the

> > > ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So

> > > now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place

when

> > > 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then

> > > deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.

> > > > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-

> > > > > Capricorn 24-06-40

> > > > > Aquarius    6-40-00

> > > > > Pisces       ÂÂ

1-20-00

> > > > > Pisces      12-53-20

> > > > > Pisces      24-06-40

> > > > > Aries       ÂÂ

 5-33-20

> > > > > Aries       18-06-40

> > > > > Aries      29-13-20

> > > > > Taurus     11-53-20

> > > > > Taurus     24-06-40

> > > > > Gemini       6-40-00

> > > > > Cancer      1-20-00

> > > > > Cancer     24-06-40

> > >

> > > > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today?

Shall

> > > there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in

> > > constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is

> > > fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my

> > > understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this

acceptable

> > > rule.

> > > > > Dr. Rath

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Senthil athi_ram >

> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM

> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that

there

> > > are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of

> > > Moon and such birth chart i have seen already.

> > > > >

> > > > > GOOD LUCK!

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > > D.Senthil

> > > > >

> > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>

> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory

> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Senthil,

> > > > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4

> > > births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next

> > > second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I

> > > would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3

> > > degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while

applying

> > > the rule in question while conducting BTR.

> > > > > Dr. Rath

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Senthil athi_ram >

> > > > > mssumich mssumich >

> > > > > Cc: @gro ups.com

> > > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM

> > > > > Re: BTR Theory

> > > > >

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear MS.

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for

> > > Population Statistics.

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births

> > > > >

> > >         ÂÂ

         ÂÂ

         ÂÂ

         ÂÂ

       ÂÂ

> > > =14708.95833 per hour

> > > > >

> > >         ÂÂ

         ÂÂ

         ÂÂ

         ÂÂ

       ÂÂ

> > > = 245.1493056 per minute

> > > > >

> > >         ÂÂ

         ÂÂ

         ÂÂ

         ÂÂ

       ÂÂ

> > > = 4.085821759 per second.

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of

the

> > > places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place

will

> > > defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have

seen

> > > charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree

> > > orb.

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > > Hope the above gives the required information.

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > > GOOD LUCK!

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > > > D.Senthil

> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > mssumich mssumich >

> > > > > BTR Theory

> > > > > " Senthil " athi_ram >

> > > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Shri Senthil

> > > > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many

> > > births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord

> > > will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part

of

> > > the proof you gave is very clear.

> > > > >

> > > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.

> > > > > Thanks

> > > > > MS

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear TinWin,

> > > > >

> > > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.

> > > > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959

> > > > >

> > > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the

> > > method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant)

> > > position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON

> > > position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the

> > > world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically

incorrect

> > > and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON &

> > > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical

> > > example and thanks for the same.

> > > > >

> > > > > GOOD LUCK!

> > > > >

> > > > > D.Senthil

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear yogeshji, Sub lord of the ascendent should tell the star lord of the moon.The key word is tell.Doesnt it mean there should be some link, even indirect between the two, say, via star lords of sub lord of asc and star lord of moon?RegardsSanthoshSent from BlackBerry® on Airtel Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmiSun, 15 Nov 2009 06:11:57 -0800 (PST)Cc: Punit Pandey<punitpRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Punit, I follow most of the methods discussed in the interesting New book published by K.Subramaniam,"Rectification of Birth Time"... one by one depending upon whether the one arrived at satisfies the results expected or confirms results already experienced,as per the Dasa-Bhukti-Antharas... If the Given Birth Time,for correction is + or - 20 minutes from the true TOB...Mr.Shanmugham's 1st method works out to be very correct...I have modified this method over the years,to include the sub-sublords of the Ascendant to also apear as the Moon's sublord... With kind regards, Yogesh Lajmi --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Punit Pandey <punitp > wrote:Punit Pandey <punitp >Re: Re: BTR Theory Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:22 PM Dear Vijay ji, I am not aware of any patent on the word "holistically" and hence used the word. By the way, your indirect comment is not appreciated because when I wanted to discuss the topic, you backed out and now this indirect comment which is trying to convey that the word "holistically" is a synonym with "absolutely correct". Whenever you have interest in discussing Double-Transit, would appreciate that you respond my questions in that topic which helps your point of view and hence take the discussion forward. My usage of word "holistically" doesn't add anything to that discussion, it doesn't make "holistically" a synonym for "correct." Coming to Shanmugam ji method, I do not have any opinion to share with the forum. I personally do not use this method because I see no logic on various facets like why Ascendant sub and not Moon's sub? Why Moon's nakshatra but not Ascedant's nakshtra? I do not have any good logical explanation for myself and hence I do not use it. Though I also felt that all our discussion and study is mostly surrounding first point and not on all four points as suggested by Shanmugam ji. It also look like Lajmi ji also use first point only and not all four points most of the time. I didn't write about it earlier because of lack of interest in this topic. We would have discussed this topic 100+ times in the past and without any conclusion and hence no interest. After so many discussions on this topic, I emphesize verification framework which is not very strong in KP. There is needed some simple and straight-forward way to verify whether the time is correct or not. In my opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about the rectification method. Thanks & Regards,Punit PandeyOn Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Dear Punitji,//Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically//Nice to see the use of word Holistically .*****Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from KP experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all,I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself, its sub & sub sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star?II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ?I am expecting some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding from KP experts.Thanking you,Regards,Vijay GoelJaipur. @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Friends,> > Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous studies> (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the study> has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically, in my> opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr.> Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.> > I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record> purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all the> conditions (a to d)?> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel goyalvj wrote:> > >> >> > Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,> >> > Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book "Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II" (M/s.> > Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :> >> > In his own words:> >> > *"If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or wrong, the> > method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or the> > Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth> > Star will be more correct."> >> > a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.> >> > *[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.> > I) 'X' could be moon's star.> > This Yogeshji is using successfully in his longexperience]*> >> > b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.> > *> > [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet 'Y',> > II) 'Y' could be moon's star> > III) Y's sub could be moon's star (*Take this planet as 'Z'* )]> >> > *c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level, which will> > be the Birth Star.> > i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then> > SubSub(Anthara) -and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama).> > This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.> > *> > [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that sub sub> > (SS) is not taken here.]*>>> > d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a> > Star–Sub–SubSub– SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS), which> > should tell the Birth Star.> >> > *[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the moon's> > star.]*> >> >> > A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth (boopadhana) ,> > Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such> > circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone.> >> > As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four levels as> > explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the Birth> > Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to> > Sookshama level at times." *> >> > Just I want to say toSenthilji that the statistical relation he had> > provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose other> > factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and> > probabilites ratio will increase.> >> > Thankyou,> > Regards,> > Vijay Goel> > Jaipur.> >> >> >> > @gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Senthil,> > >                  The objective is to confirm the> > correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned> > are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time iscorrect...> > >                  As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of> > Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...> > >                   BTR is as simple as that...> >> > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. Â> > >> > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > vijay.goel goyalvj@> >> > > Re: BTR Theory> > > @gro ups.com> > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM> > >> > >> > > Â> > >> > >>> >> > >> > >> > > Dear Senthil ji,> > >> > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :> > >> > > Rule 3:> > > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P.> > method)....> > > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the> > sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord> > is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a> > female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."> > >> > > Rule 4 :> > >> > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given> > TOB...> > > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of> > the IXth cusp...> >> Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul> > > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth> > > Ven - is chief significator of Kama> > > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am> > not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...> > >> > > ************ ***> > >> > > Thankyou,> > >> > > Best Wishes,> > > Vijay Goel> > > Jaipur.> > >> > > ---> > > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time> > being. We will talk about oneRULE first.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > RULE:1> > > > *********> > > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values> > up to Seconds)> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l> > explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with> > 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More> > FAILURE results noticed).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE?> > As you have already gone throughM.P. Shanmugham's book understood his> > methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points)ÂÂ> > about this RULE alone.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > RULE:2> > > > *********> >> > > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======> > > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a> > cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be> > ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from> > having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses> > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that> > time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth>> Chart...and so on...> > > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= =ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Reply:> > > > ====> > > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE.> > Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many> > of them neither faced it nor remembers it.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Other RULES> > > > =========> > > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience> > wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not> > coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be> > so muchangry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing,> > angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for> > your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling> > on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s> > review comments.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> > > > Re: Re: BTRTheory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: "Senthil" athi_ram@ .>> > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > >> >                   You> > seem to be "at it" again...> > > >> >                   Why> > are youdeliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research> > in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your> > point ?> > > >                 ÂÂ> > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule> > of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your> > knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched"> > -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..> >> > > >                  As> > said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you> > do not seem to have read mymail to you,directly, refering your mail to> > Ms.Sujata Das...> > > >> >                   On> > this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that> > the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR> > that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly> > as per D/B/A/S ...? !> > > >                  I> > have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub> > level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub> > level...> > > >    Â            ÂÂ> > With best wishes,> > > >                 ÂÂ> > Yogesh Lajmi.> > > >> >                                            ÂÂ> > GOOD LUCK !> >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >>> > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: rathluther > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position> > in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac> > is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given> > below.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Hr.No.> > > >> > > >> > > > RASI> > > >> > > >> > > > Sgn> > > >> > > >> > > > Str> > > >> > > >> > > > Sub> > > >> > > >> > > > Degree> > > >> > > > Diff.> > > >> > > >> > > > 1> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 000:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > >>> > > >> > > > 2> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 000:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 3> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 003:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 4> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > >>> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 003:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 5> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 004:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 6> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 005:33:20> > > >> > >> 011:26:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 7> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 007:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 8> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 009:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 9> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > >> MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 10> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 013:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 11> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 015:33:20> >> >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 12> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 016:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 13> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 017:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 14> > > >> > > >RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 018:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 15> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 020:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 16> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >>> > > 021:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 17> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 024:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 18> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 025:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 19> >> >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 026:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 20> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 027:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 21> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > >> MAR> > > >> > > > 028:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 22> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 029:13:20> > > >> > > > 011:06:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 23> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 030:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >>> > > 24> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 031:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 25> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 033:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 26> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN>> > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 035:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 27> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 037:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 28> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 037:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> >> >> > > >> > > > 29> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 040:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 30> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 041:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 31> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > >>> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 041:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:53:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 32> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 043:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 33> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 045:40:00> > > >> > > >ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 34> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 047:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 35> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 049:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 36> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >>> > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 050:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 37> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 052:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 38> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > >053:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 39> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 054:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 40> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 056:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 41> > > >> >> > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 057:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 42> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 060:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 43> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> >> >> > > > 061:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 44> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 062:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 45> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 064:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > >> 46> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 065:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 47> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 066:40:00> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 48> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >>> > > JUP> > > >> > > > 068:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 49> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 070:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 50> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 072:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> >> >> > > > 51> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 074:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 52> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 075:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 53> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > >> RAH> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 077:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 54> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 078:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 55> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 079:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ>>> > > >> > > >> > > > 56> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 080:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 57> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 081:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 58> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > >MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 083:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 59> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 085:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 60> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 086:33:20> > >>> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 61> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 088:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 62> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 089:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 63> > > >> > > >RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 090:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 64> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 090:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 65> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > RAH> > >>> > > > 091:20:00> > > >> > > > 024:40:00> > > >> > > >> > > > 66> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 093:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 67> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 095:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 68>> > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 097:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 69> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 098:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 70> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> >> > SUN> > > >> > > > 100:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 71> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 101:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 72> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 102:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > >>> > > > 73> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 102:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 74> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 104:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 75> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER>> > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 106:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 76> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 108:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 77> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 109:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> >> >> > > >> > > > 78> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 111:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 79> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 112:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 80> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > >>> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 113:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 81> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 114:06:40> > > >> > > > 011:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 82> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 116:06:40> > > >> > > >ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 83> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 117:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of> > RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you> > assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in> > degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min> > which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the> > average ascendant(lagna)motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes> > upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours> > to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's> > relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no> > question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of> > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two> > consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it> > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that> > is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is> >absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can> > happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can> > decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >>> > > >> > > > Sir,> > > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as> > per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in> > various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the> > ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So> > now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when> > 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then> > deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > > > Capricorn 24-06-40> > > > Aquarius    6-40-00> > > > Pisces        1-20-00> > > >Pisces      12-53-20> > > > Pisces      24-06-40> > > > Aries         5-33-20> > > > Aries       18-06-40> > > > Aries      29-13-20> > > > Taurus     11-53-20> > > > Taurus     24-06-40> > > > Gemini       6-40-00> > > > Cancer      1-20-00> > > > Cancer     24-06-40> >> > > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall> >there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in> > constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is> > fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my> > understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable> > rule.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there> > are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of> > Moon and such birth chart i have seen already.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > >>> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4> > births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next> > second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I> > would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3> > degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying> > the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > Cc:@gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > > > Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear MS.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for> > Population Statistics.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > ÂÂ> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births>> > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > =14708.95833 per hour> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > > >> >   Â                                           ÂÂ> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the> > places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will> > defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen> > charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree> > orb.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > BTR Theory> > > > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many> > births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord> > will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of> > the proof you gave is very clear.> > > >> > > >Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > > > Thanks> > > > MS> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear TinWin,> > > >> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > >> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the> > method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant)> > position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON> > position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the> > world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practicallyincorrect> > and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & > > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > >> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical> > example and thanks for the same.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > >> >> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Vijay ji and friends,

You are right.

Here Late M P Shanmugham is talking of verification of Birth time alias

Ascendant based on moons Nakshatra at Birth.

Principle is well known and discussed in hindu astrology by Late Sri Shanker and

few others.Col Gaur in his book on transits has also summarised this method in

appendix with slight variation.

I am quoting the easy key to remember and apply

Principle

ASC SUB LORD OF A Native should show nak occupied by moon in some way.

The way could be one of the conditions below or

By aspect connection could also be made.

Find SL of ASC Say it is X

Look X it may be in Rasi R in Nak Y in SUB of Z

Condition 1. Nak of MOON could be One owned by planet X

Condition 2. Nak of Moon could be one owned by planet Y or Z

Condition 3. Nak of Moon could be of sss occupied by Planet Y

Condition 4. Nak of moon could be of SSS of one occupied by planet Z.

I got my copy of vol II of astrosecret only a few days ago and am on journey. I

was surprised that Part II is a compilation only going through fourth edition

and editor has not bothered to correct the placement of charts at correct place.

So far i have tried four conditions on few charts where astrological Birth time

is farly well known Like self and of Prof KSK ( same book article by MGG Nayar

page 249)etc.

If useful i shall share if this method works well. I understand Rectification

shall be called for IF Within given range ,One cannot fit the events .

With regards.

RCS.

 

, " vijay.goel " <goyalvj wrote:

>

> Dear Punitji,

>

> //In my opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking

about the rectification method.//

>

> Very true ! i completely agree on it.

>

> I appreciate your hard work and straight attitude.

>

> I feel that their is some logic in SS, SSS as Late Shanmugam ji is

specifically mentioned in points b) to d), Else he would had described it in a

more simpler way.

>

> May be i am thinking in the wrong direction.

>

> Thankyou,

> Regards,

> Vijay Goel

> Jaipur.

>

>

> , Punit Pandey <punitp@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Vijay ji,

> >

> > I am not aware of any patent on the word " holistically " and hence used the

> > word. By the way, your indirect comment is not appreciated because when I

> > wanted to discuss the topic, you backed out and now this indirect comment

> > which is trying to convey that the word " holistically " is a synonym with

> > " absolutely correct " . Whenever you have interest in discussing

> > Double-Transit, would appreciate that you respond my questions in that topic

> > which helps your point of view and hence take the discussion forward. My

> > usage of word " holistically " doesn't add anything to that discussion, it

> > doesn't make " holistically " a synonym for " correct. "

> >

> > Coming to Shanmugam ji method, I do not have any opinion to share with the

> > forum. I personally do not use this method because I see no logic on various

> > facets like why Ascendant sub and not Moon's sub? Why Moon's nakshatra but

> > not Ascedant's nakshtra? I do not have any good logical explanation for

> > myself and hence I do not use it. Though I also felt that all our discussion

> > and study is mostly surrounding first point and not on all four points as

> > suggested by Shanmugam ji. It also look like Lajmi ji also use first point

> > only and not all four points most of the time. I didn't write about it

> > earlier because of lack of interest in this topic. We would have discussed

> > this topic 100+ times in the past and without any conclusion and hence no

> > interest.

> >

> > After so many discussions on this topic, I emphesize verification framework

> > which is not very strong in KP. There is needed some simple and

> > straight-forward way to verify whether the time is correct or not. In my

> > opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about

> > the rectification method.

> >

> > Thanks & Regards,

> >

> > Punit Pandey

> >

> >

> > On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM, vijay.goel <goyalvj@> wrote:

> > >

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> Dear Punitji,

> > >>

> > >> //Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam *holistically*//

> > >>

> > >> Nice to see the use of word Holistically .

> > >>

> > >> *****

> > >>

> > >> Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from KP

> > >> experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all,

> > >>

> > >> I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself, its sub &

> > >> sub sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star?

> > >> II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ?

> > >>

> > >> I am expecting some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding

> > >> from KP experts.

> > >>

> > >> Thanking you,

> > >> Regards,

> > >> Vijay Goel

> > >> Jaipur.

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> , Punit Pandey <punitp@> wrote:

> > >> >

> > >> > Dear Friends,

> > >> >

> > >> > Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous

> > >> studies

> > >> > (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the

> > >> study

> > >> > has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically,

in

> > >> my

> > >> > opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr.

> > >> > Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.

> > >> >

> > >> > I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record

> > >> > purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all

the

> > >> > conditions (a to d)?

> > >> >

> > >> > Thanks & Regards,

> > >> >

> > >> > Punit Pandey

> > >> >

> > >> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:

> > >> >

> > >> > >

> > >> > >

> > >> > > Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,

> > >> > >

> > >> > > Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book " Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II "

> > >> (M/s.

> > >> > > Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :

> > >> > >

> > >> > > In his own words:

> > >> > >

> > >> > > * " If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or

> > >> wrong, the

> > >> > > method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or

> > >> the

> > >> > > Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth

> > >> > > Star will be more correct. "

> > >> > >

> > >> > > a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.

> > >> > >

> > >> > > *[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.

> > >> > > I) 'X' could be moon's star.

> > >> > > This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]*

> > >> > >

> > >> > > b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that

> > >> > > Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.

> > >> > > *

> > >> > > [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet

> > >> 'Y',

> > >> > > II) 'Y' could be moon's star

> > >> > > III) Y's sub could be moon's star (*Take this planet as 'Z'* )]

> > >> > >

> > >> > > *c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that

> > >> > > Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level,

> > >> which will

> > >> > > be the Birth Star.

> > >> > > i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then

> > >> > > SubSub(Anthara)-and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama).

> > >> > > This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.

> > >> > > *

> > >> > > [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that

> > >> sub sub

> > >> > > (SS) is not taken here.]*

> > >> > >

> > >> > > d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a

> > >> > > Star–Sub–SubSub–SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS),

which

> > >> > > should tell the Birth Star.

> > >> > >

> > >> > > *[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the

> > >> moon's

> > >> > > star.]*

> > >> > >

> > >> > >

> > >> > > A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth

> > >> (boopadhana),

> > >> > > Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such

> > >> > > circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone.

> > >> > >

> > >> > > As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four

> > >> levels as

> > >> > > explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the

> > >> Birth

> > >> > > Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to

> > >> > > Sookshama level at times. " *

> > >> > >

> > >> > > Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had

> > >> > > provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose

> > >> other

> > >> > > factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and

> > >> > > probabilites ratio will increase.

> > >> > >

> > >> > > Thankyou,

> > >> > > Regards,

> > >> > > Vijay Goel

> > >> > > Jaipur.

> > >> > >

> > >> > >

> > >> > >

> > >> > > , Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > Dear Senthil,

> > >> > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â The objective is to confirm the

> > >> > > correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules

> > >> mentioned

> > >> > > are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct...

> > >> > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â As said by Vijayji,the gender

rule

> > >> of

> > >> > > Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...

> > >> > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â BTR is as simple as that...

> > >> > >

> > >> > > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. Â

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > vijay.goel goyalvj@

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > Re: BTR Theory

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > Â

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > Dear Senthil ji,

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > Rule 3:

> > >> > > > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P.

> > >> > > method)....

> > >> > > > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : " If the

> > >> > > sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose

> > >> lord

> > >> > > is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in

> > >> a

> > >> > > female sign,then the chart is of a female child... "

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > Rule 4 :

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a

given

> > >> > > TOB...

> > >> > > > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or

> > >> s/l of

> > >> > > the IXth cusp...

> > >> > > > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul

> > >> > > > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth

> > >> > > > Ven - is chief significator of Kama

> > >> > > > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if

> > >> I am

> > >> > > not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > ************ ***

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > Thankyou,

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > Best Wishes,

> > >> > > > Vijay Goel

> > >> > > > Jaipur.

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > ---

> > >> > > > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the

rules

> > >> time

> > >> > > being. We will talk about one RULE first.

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > > RULE:1

> > >> > > > > *********

> > >> > > > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer

> > >> values

> > >> > > up to Seconds)

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l

> > >> > > explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also

> > >> studied with

> > >> > > 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working

Well(More

> > >> > > FAILURE results noticed).

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working

> > >> FINE?

> > >> > > As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood

> > >> his

> > >> > > methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet

> > >> points)ÂÂ

> > >> > > about this RULE alone.

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > > RULE:2

> > >> > > > > *********

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== =========

> > >> ======

> > >> > > > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one

> > >> gets a

> > >> > > cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII

> > >> will be

> > >> > > ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes

from

> > >> > > having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the

> > >> houses

> > >> > > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that

> > >> > > time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a

> > >> Birth

> > >> > > Chart...and so on...

> > >> > > > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= =========

> > >> =ÂÂ

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > > Reply:

> > >> > > > > ====

> > >> > > > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a

> > >> RULE.

> > >> > > Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not?

And

> > >> many

> > >> > > of them neither faced it nor remembers it.

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > > Other RULES

> > >> > > > > =========

> > >> > > > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well

experience

> > >> > > wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and

> > >> not

> > >> > > coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You

> > >> may be

> > >> > > so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing,

> > >> > > angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head

> > >> for

> > >> > > your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal

> > >> feeling

> > >> > > on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s

> > >> > > review comments.

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > > D.Senthil

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>

> > >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory

> > >> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > >> > > > > Cc: " Senthil " athi_ram@ .>

> > >> > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Dear Senthil,

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > >                 ÂÂ

> > >>  You

> > >> > > seem to be " at it " again...

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > >                 ÂÂ

> > >>  Why

> > >> > > are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in

> > >> research

> > >> > > in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove

> > >> your

> > >> > > point ?

> > >> > > > >                ÂÂ

> > >> ÂÂ

> > >> > > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one

> > >> rule

> > >> > > of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden

your

> > >> > > knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well- " researched "

> > >> > > -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >                ÂÂ

> > >>  As

> > >> > > said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus

on...and

> > >> you

> > >> > > do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail

> > >> to

> > >> > > Ms.Sujata Das...

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > >                 ÂÂ

> > >>  On

> > >> > > this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated

> > >> that

> > >> > > the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same

> > >> BTR

> > >> > > that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events

> > >> correctly

> > >> > > as per D/B/A/S ...? !

> > >> > > > >                ÂÂ

> > >>  I

> > >> > > have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the

> > >> sub-sub

> > >> > > level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even

> > >> sub-sub-sub

> > >> > > level...

> > >> > > > >                ÂÂ

> > >> ÂÂ

> > >> > > With best wishes,

> > >> > > > >                ÂÂ

> > >> ÂÂ

> > >> > > Yogesh Lajmi.

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > >                 ÂÂ

> > >>                  ÂÂ

ÂÂ

> > >>        ÂÂ

> > >> > > GOOD LUCK !

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Senthil athi_ram >

> > >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory

> > >> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > >> > > > > Cc: rathluther

> > >> > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star

> > >> position

> > >> > > in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the

> > >> zodiac

> > >> > > is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results

are

> > >> given

> > >> > > below.

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Hr.No.

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RASI

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Sgn

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Str

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Sub

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Degree

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Diff.

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 1

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA1

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > KET

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > KET

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 000:00:00

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 2

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA1

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > KET

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > VEN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 000:46:40

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 3

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA1

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > KET

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > SUN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 003:00:00

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 4

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA1

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > KET

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MOO

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 003:40:00

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 5

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA1

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > KET

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 004:46:40

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 6

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA1

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > KET

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RAH

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 005:33:20

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 011:26:40

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 7

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA1

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > KET

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > JUP

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 007:33:20

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 8

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA1

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > KET

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > SAT

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 009:20:00

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 9

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA1

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > KET

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MER

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 011:26:40

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 10

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA1

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > VEN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > VEN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 013:20:00

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 11

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA1

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > VEN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > SUN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 015:33:20

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 12

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA1

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > VEN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MOO

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 016:13:20

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 13

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA1

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > VEN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 017:20:00

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 14

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA1

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > VEN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RAH

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 018:06:40

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 012:33:20

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 15

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA1

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > VEN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > JUP

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 020:06:40

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 16

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA1

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > VEN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > SAT

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 021:53:20

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 17

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA1

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > VEN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MER

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 024:00:00

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 18

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA1

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > VEN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > KET

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 025:53:20

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 19

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA1

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > SUN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > SUN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 026:40:00

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 20

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA1

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > SUN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MOO

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 027:20:00

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 21

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA1

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > SUN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 028:26:40

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 22

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA1

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > SUN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RAH

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 029:13:20

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 011:06:40

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 23

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA2

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > VEN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > SUN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RAH

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 030:00:00

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 24

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA2

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > VEN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > SUN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > JUP

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 031:13:20

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 25

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA2

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > VEN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > SUN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > SAT

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 033:00:00

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 26

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA2

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > VEN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > SUN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MER

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 035:06:40

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 27

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA2

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > VEN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > SUN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > KET

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 037:00:00

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 28

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA2

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > VEN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > SUN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > VEN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 037:46:40

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 29

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA2

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > VEN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MOO

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MOO

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 040:00:00

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 30

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > RA2

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > VEN

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MOO

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MAR

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 041:06:40

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 31

> > >> > > > >

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> > >> > > > > RA4

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MOO

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > MER

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > SAT

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > 117:53:20

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive

> > >> occurrence of

> > >> > > RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if

you

> > >> > > assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest

> > >> difference in

> > >> > > degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(=

1Hour

> > >> 44Min

> > >> > > which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have

> > >> assumed the

> > >> > > average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it

> > >> dependes

> > >> > > upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than

> > >> 2hours

> > >> > > to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord &

> > >> it's

> > >> > > relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no

> > >> > > question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of

> > >> > > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two

> > >> > > consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But

> > >> now it

> > >> > > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that

> > >> > > is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).

This

> > >> is

> > >> > > absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the

childbirth

> > >> can

> > >> > > happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can

> > >> > > decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > > D.Senthil

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>

> > >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory

> > >> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > >> > > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Sir,

> > >> > > > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini.

> > >> So as

> > >> > > per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in

> > >> > > various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this

> > >> the

> > >> > > ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is

Mercury.

> > >> So

> > >> > > now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take

place

> > >> when

> > >> > > 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises.

> > >> Then

> > >> > > deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.

> > >> > > > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-

> > >> > > > > Capricorn 24-06-40

> > >> > > > > Aquarius    6-40-00

> > >> > > > > Pisces        1-20-00

> > >> > > > > Pisces      12-53-20

> > >> > > > > Pisces      24-06-40

> > >> > > > > Aries         5-33-20

> > >> > > > > Aries       18-06-40

> > >> > > > > Aries      29-13-20

> > >> > > > > Taurus     11-53-20

> > >> > > > > Taurus     24-06-40

> > >> > > > > Gemini       6-40-00

> > >> > > > > Cancer      1-20-00

> > >> > > > > Cancer     24-06-40

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today?

> > >> Shall

> > >> > > there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in

> > >> > > constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is

> > >> > > fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my

> > >> > > understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this

> > >> acceptable

> > >> > > rule.

> > >> > > > > Dr. Rath

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Senthil athi_ram >

> > >> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > >> > > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM

> > >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that

> > >> there

> > >> > > are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the

> > >> position of

> > >> > > Moon and such birth chart i have seen already.

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > > D.Senthil

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>

> > >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory

> > >> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > >> > > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Dear Senthil,

> > >> > > > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4

> > >> > > births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in

> > >> next

> > >> > > second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize

> > >> this. I

> > >> > > would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0

to

> > >> 3

> > >> > > degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while

> > >> applying

> > >> > > the rule in question while conducting BTR.

> > >> > > > > Dr. Rath

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Senthil athi_ram >

> > >> > > > > mssumich mssumich >

> > >> > > > > Cc: @gro ups.com

> > >> > > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM

> > >> > > > > Re: BTR Theory

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Dear MS.

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given

below

> > >> for

> > >> > > Population Statistics.

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > >                 ÂÂ

> > >>                  ÂÂ

ÂÂ

> > >>           ÂÂ

> > >> > > =14708.95833 per hour

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > >                 ÂÂ

> > >>                  ÂÂ

ÂÂ

> > >>           ÂÂ

> > >> > > = 245.1493056 per minute

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > >                 ÂÂ

> > >>                  ÂÂ

ÂÂ

> > >>           ÂÂ

> > >> > > = 4.085821759 per second.

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of

> > >> the

> > >> > > places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place

> > >> will

> > >> > > defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have

> > >> seen

> > >> > > charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within

> > >> 3degree

> > >> > > orb.

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > > Hope the above gives the required information.

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > > > > D.Senthil

> > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > >> > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > mssumich mssumich >

> > >> > > > > BTR Theory

> > >> > > > > " Senthil " athi_ram >

> > >> > > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Dear Shri Senthil

> > >> > > > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so

> > >> many

> > >> > > births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc

> > >> sublord

> > >> > > will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math

> > >> part of

> > >> > > the proof you gave is very clear.

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.

> > >> > > > > Thanks

> > >> > > > > MS

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Dear TinWin,

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.

> > >> > > > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the

> > >> > > method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no

lagna(ascendant)

> > >> > > position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON

> > >> > > position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in

the

> > >> > > world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically

> > >> incorrect

> > >> > > and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON &

> > >> > > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical

> > >> > > example and thanks for the same.

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > D.Senthil

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > >

> > >> > >

> > >> > >

> > >> > >

> > >> >

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear punitji

 

The best verification method is to note few actual time of birth (first cry) and see if for that moment Moon relates to Asc in sub and sub sub level. In my opinion this is the only method by which we can get out of this impasse of useless argumentations. This will be a good project work too.What we need is help from few doctors.

 

regards

 

Suprakash

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

vijay.goel

Sunday, November 15, 2009 11:51 PM

Re: BTR Theory

Dear Punitji,//In my opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about the rectification method.//Very true ! i completely agree on it.I appreciate your hard work and straight attitude. I feel that their is some logic in SS, SSS as Late Shanmugam ji is specifically mentioned in points b) to d), Else he would had described it in a more simpler way.May be i am thinking in the wrong direction.Thankyou,Regards,Vijay GoelJaipur. , Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Vijay ji,> > I am not aware of any patent on the word "holistically" and hence used the> word. By the way, your indirect comment is not appreciated because when I> wanted to discuss the topic, you backed out and now this indirect comment> which is trying to convey that the word "holistically" is a synonym with> "absolutely correct". Whenever you have interest in discussing> Double-Transit, would appreciate that you respond my questions in that topic> which helps your point of view and hence take the discussion forward. My> usage of word "holistically" doesn't add anything to that discussion, it> doesn't make "holistically" a synonym for "correct."> > Coming to Shanmugam ji method, I do not have any opinion to share with the> forum. I personally do not use this method because I see no logic on various> facets like why Ascendant sub and not Moon's sub? Why Moon's nakshatra but> not Ascedant's nakshtra? I do not have any good logical explanation for> myself and hence I do not use it. Though I also felt that all our discussion> and study is mostly surrounding first point and not on all four points as> suggested by Shanmugam ji. It also look like Lajmi ji also use first point> only and not all four points most of the time. I didn't write about it> earlier because of lack of interest in this topic. We would have discussed> this topic 100+ times in the past and without any conclusion and hence no> interest.> > After so many discussions on this topic, I emphesize verification framework> which is not very strong in KP. There is needed some simple and> straight-forward way to verify whether the time is correct or not. In my> opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about> the rectification method.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM, vijay.goel <goyalvj wrote:> >> >>> >>> >> Dear Punitji,> >>> >> //Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam *holistically*//> >>> >> Nice to see the use of word Holistically .> >>> >> *****> >>> >> Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from KP> >> experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all,> >>> >> I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself, its sub & > >> sub sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star?> >> II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ?> >>> >> I am expecting some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding> >> from KP experts.> >>> >> Thanking you,> >> Regards,> >> Vijay Goel> >> Jaipur.> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> , Punit Pandey <punitp@> wrote:> >> >> >> > Dear Friends,> >> >> >> > Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous> >> studies> >> > (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the> >> study> >> > has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically, in> >> my> >> > opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr.> >> > Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.> >> >> >> > I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record> >> > purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all the> >> > conditions (a to d)?> >> >> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> >> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> >> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,> >> > >> >> > > Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book "Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II"> >> (M/s.> >> > > Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :> >> > >> >> > > In his own words:> >> > >> >> > > *"If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or> >> wrong, the> >> > > method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or> >> the> >> > > Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth> >> > > Star will be more correct."> >> > >> >> > > a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.> >> > >> >> > > *[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.> >> > > I) 'X' could be moon's star.> >> > > This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]*> >> > >> >> > > b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that> >> > > Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.> >> > > *> >> > > [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet> >> 'Y',> >> > > II) 'Y' could be moon's star> >> > > III) Y's sub could be moon's star (*Take this planet as 'Z'* )]> >> > >> >> > > *c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that> >> > > Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level,> >> which will> >> > > be the Birth Star.> >> > > i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then> >> > > SubSub(Anthara)-and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama).> >> > > This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.> >> > > *> >> > > [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that> >> sub sub> >> > > (SS) is not taken here.]*> >> > >> >> > > d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a> >> > > Star–Sub–SubSub–SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS), which> >> > > should tell the Birth Star.> >> > >> >> > > *[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the> >> moon's> >> > > star.]*> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth> >> (boopadhana),> >> > > Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such> >> > > circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone.> >> > >> >> > > As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four> >> levels as> >> > > explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the> >> Birth> >> > > Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to> >> > > Sookshama level at times." *> >> > >> >> > > Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had> >> > > provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose> >> other> >> > > factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and> >> > > probabilites ratio will increase.> >> > >> >> > > Thankyou,> >> > > Regards,> >> > > Vijay Goel> >> > > Jaipur.> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > , Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:> >> > > >> >> > > > Dear Senthil,> >> > > >                  The objective is to confirm the> >> > > correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules> >> mentioned> >> > > are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct...> >> > > >                  As said by Vijayji,the gender rule> >> of> >> > > Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...> >> > > >                   BTR is as simple as that...> >> > >> >> > > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. Â> >> > > >> >> > > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > vijay.goel goyalvj@> >> > >> >> > > > Re: BTR Theory> >> > > > > >> > > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > Â> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > Dear Senthil ji,> >> > > >> >> > > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :> >> > > >> >> > > > Rule 3:> >> > > > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P.> >> > > method)....> >> > > > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the> >> > > sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose> >> lord> >> > > is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in> >> a> >> > > female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."> >> > > >> >> > > > Rule 4 :> >> > > >> >> > > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given> >> > > TOB...> >> > > > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or> >> s/l of> >> > > the IXth cusp...> >> > > > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul> >> > > > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth> >> > > > Ven - is chief significator of Kama> >> > > > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if> >> I am> >> > > not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...> >> > > >> >> > > > ************ ***> >> > > >> >> > > > Thankyou,> >> > > >> >> > > > Best Wishes,> >> > > > Vijay Goel> >> > > > Jaipur.> >> > > >> >> > > > ---> >> > > > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules> >> time> >> > > being. We will talk about one RULE first.> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > > RULE:1> >> > > > > *********> >> > > > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer> >> values> >> > > up to Seconds)> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l> >> > > explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also> >> studied with> >> > > 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More> >> > > FAILURE results noticed).> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working> >> FINE?> >> > > As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood> >> his> >> > > methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet> >> points)ÂÂ> >> > > about this RULE alone.> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > RULE:2> >> > > > > *********> >> > >> >> > > > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== =========> >> ======> >> > > > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one> >> gets a> >> > > cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII> >> will be> >> > > ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from> >> > > having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the> >> houses> >> > > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that> >> > > time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a> >> Birth> >> > > Chart...and so on...> >> > > > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= =========> >> =ÂÂ> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > Reply:> >> > > > > ====> >> > > > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a> >> RULE.> >> > > Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And> >> many> >> > > of them neither faced it nor remembers it.> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > > Other RULES> >> > > > > =========> >> > > > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience> >> > > wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and> >> not> >> > > coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You> >> may be> >> > > so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing,> >> > > angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head> >> for> >> > > your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal> >> feeling> >> > > on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s> >> > > review comments.> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > D.Senthil> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> >> > > > > @gro ups.com> >> > > > > Cc: "Senthil" athi_ram@ .>> >> > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Dear Senthil,> >> > > > >> >> > >                 ÂÂ> >>  You> >> > > seem to be "at it" again...> >> > > > >> >> > >                 ÂÂ> >>  Why> >> > > are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in> >> research> >> > > in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove> >> your> >> > > point ?> >> > > > >                ÂÂ> >> ÂÂ> >> > > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one> >> rule> >> > > of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your> >> > > knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched"> >> > > -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..> >> > >> >> > > > >                ÂÂ> >>  As> >> > > said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and> >> you> >> > > do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail> >> to> >> > > Ms.Sujata Das...> >> > > > >> >> > >                 ÂÂ> >>  On> >> > > this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated> >> that> >> > > the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same> >> BTR> >> > > that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events> >> correctly> >> > > as per D/B/A/S ...? !> >> > > > >                ÂÂ> >>  I> >> > > have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the> >> sub-sub> >> > > level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even> >> sub-sub-sub> >> > > level...> >> > > > >                ÂÂ> >> ÂÂ> >> > > With best wishes,> >> > > > >                ÂÂ> >> ÂÂ> >> > > Yogesh Lajmi.> >> > > > >> >> > >                 ÂÂ> >>                   ÂÂ> >>        ÂÂ> >> > > GOOD LUCK !> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Senthil athi_ram >> >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> >> > > > > @gro ups.com> >> > > > > Cc: rathluther > >> > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star> >> position> >> > > in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the> >> zodiac> >> > > is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are> >> given> >> > > below.> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Hr.No.> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RASI> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Sgn> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Str> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Sub> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Degree> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Diff.> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 1> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA1> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > KET> >> > > > >> >> > > > > KET> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 000:00:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 2> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA1> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > KET> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 000:46:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 3> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA1> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > KET> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SUN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 003:00:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 4> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA1> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > KET> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 003:40:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 5> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA1> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > KET> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 004:46:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 6> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA1> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > KET> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RAH> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 005:33:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 011:26:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 7> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA1> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > KET> >> > > > >> >> > > > > JUP> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 007:33:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 8> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA1> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > KET> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SAT> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 009:20:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 9> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA1> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > KET> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 011:26:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 10> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA1> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 013:20:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 11> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA1> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SUN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 015:33:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 12> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA1> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 016:13:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 13> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA1> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 017:20:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 14> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA1> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RAH> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 018:06:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 012:33:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 15> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA1> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > JUP> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 020:06:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 16> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA1> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SAT> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 021:53:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 17> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA1> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 024:00:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 18> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA1> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > KET> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 025:53:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 19> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA1> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SUN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SUN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 026:40:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA1> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SUN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 027:20:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 21> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA1> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SUN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 028:26:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 22> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA1> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SUN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RAH> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 029:13:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 011:06:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 23> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA2> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SUN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RAH> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 030:00:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 24> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA2> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SUN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > JUP> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 031:13:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 25> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA2> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SUN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SAT> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 033:00:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 26> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA2> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SUN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 035:06:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 27> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA2> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SUN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > KET> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 037:00:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 28> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA2> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SUN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 037:46:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 29> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA2> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 040:00:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 30> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA2> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 041:06:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 31> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA2> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RAH> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 041:53:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 011:53:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 32> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA2> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > JUP> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 043:53:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 33> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA2> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SAT> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 045:40:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 34> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA2> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 047:46:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 35> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA2> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > KET> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 049:40:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 36> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA2> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 050:26:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 37> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA2> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SUN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 052:40:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 38> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA2> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 053:20:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 39> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA2> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RAH> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 054:06:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 012:13:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA2> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > JUP> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 056:06:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 41> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA2> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SAT> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 057:53:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 42> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA3> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 060:00:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 43> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA3> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > KET> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 061:53:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 44> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA3> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 062:40:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 45> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA3> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SUN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 064:53:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 46> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA3> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 065:33:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 47> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA3> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RAH> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RAH> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 066:40:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 012:33:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 48> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA3> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RAH> >> > > > >> >> > > > > JUP> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 068:40:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 49> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA3> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RAH> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SAT> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 070:26:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 50> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA3> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RAH> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 072:33:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 51> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA3> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RAH> >> > > > >> >> > > > > KET> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 074:26:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 52> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA3> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RAH> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 075:13:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 53> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA3> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RAH> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SUN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 077:26:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 54> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA3> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RAH> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 078:06:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 55> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA3> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RAH> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 079:13:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 56> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA3> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > JUP> >> > > > >> >> > > > > JUP> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 080:00:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 57> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA3> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > JUP> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SAT> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 081:46:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 58> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA3> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > JUP> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 083:53:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 59> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA3> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > JUP> >> > > > >> >> > > > > KET> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 085:46:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 60> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA3> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > JUP> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 086:33:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 61> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA3> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > JUP> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SUN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 088:46:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 62> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA3> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > JUP> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 089:26:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 63> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA4> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > JUP> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 090:00:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 64> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA4> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > JUP> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 090:33:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 65> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA4> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > JUP> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RAH> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 091:20:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 024:40:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 66> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA4> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SAT> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SAT> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 093:20:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 67> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA4> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SAT> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 095:26:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 68> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA4> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SAT> >> > > > >> >> > > > > KET> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 097:20:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 69> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA4> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SAT> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 098:06:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 70> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA4> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SAT> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SUN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 100:20:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 71> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA4> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SAT> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 101:00:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 72> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA4> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SAT> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 102:06:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 73> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA4> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SAT> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RAH> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 102:53:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 011:33:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 74> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA4> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SAT> >> > > > >> >> > > > > JUP> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 104:53:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 75> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA4> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 106:40:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 76> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA4> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > KET> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 108:33:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 77> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA4> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > VEN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 109:20:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 78> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA4> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SUN> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 111:33:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 79> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA4> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 112:13:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 80> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA4> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MAR> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 113:20:00> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 81> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA4> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RAH> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 114:06:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 011:13:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 82> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA4> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > JUP> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 116:06:40> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 83> >> > > > >> >> > > > > RA4> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MOO> >> > > > >> >> > > > > MER> >> > > > >> >> > > > > SAT> >> > > > >> >> > > > > 117:53:20> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive> >> occurrence of> >> > > RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you> >> > > assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest> >> difference in> >> > > degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour> >> 44Min> >> > > which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have> >> assumed the> >> > > average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it> >> dependes> >> > > upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than> >> 2hours> >> > > to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & > >> it's> >> > > relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no> >> > > question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of> >> > > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two> >> > > consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But> >> now it> >> > > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that> >> > > is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This> >> is> >> > > absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth> >> can> >> > > happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can> >> > > decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > > D.Senthil> >> > > > >> >> > > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> >> > > > > @gro ups.com> >> > > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Sir,> >> > > > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini.> >> So as> >> > > per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in> >> > > various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this> >> the> >> > > ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury.> >> So> >> > > now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place> >> when> >> > > 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises.> >> Then> >> > > deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> >> > > > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> >> > > > > Capricorn 24-06-40> >> > > > > Aquarius    6-40-00> >> > > > > Pisces        1-20-00> >> > > > > Pisces      12-53-20> >> > > > > Pisces      24-06-40> >> > > > > Aries         5-33-20> >> > > > > Aries       18-06-40> >> > > > > Aries      29-13-20> >> > > > > Taurus     11-53-20> >> > > > > Taurus     24-06-40> >> > > > > Gemini       6-40-00> >> > > > > Cancer      1-20-00> >> > > > > Cancer     24-06-40> >> > >> >> > > > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today?> >> Shall> >> > > there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in> >> > > constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is> >> > > fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my> >> > > understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this> >> acceptable> >> > > rule.> >> > > > > Dr. Rath> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Senthil athi_ram >> >> > > > > @gro ups.com> >> > > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that> >> there> >> > > are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the> >> position of> >> > > Moon and such birth chart i have seen already.> >> > > > >> >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > > D.Senthil> >> > > > >> >> > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> >> > > > > @gro ups.com> >> > > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Dear Senthil,> >> > > > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4> >> > > births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in> >> next> >> > > second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize> >> this. I> >> > > would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to> >> 3> >> > > degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while> >> applying> >> > > the rule in question while conducting BTR.> >> > > > > Dr. Rath> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Senthil athi_ram >> >> > > > > mssumich mssumich >> >> > > > > Cc: @gro ups.com> >> > > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> >> > > > > Re: BTR Theory> >> > > > >> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Dear MS.> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below> >> for> >> > > Population Statistics.> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births> >> > > > >> >> > >                 ÂÂ> >>                   ÂÂ> >>           ÂÂ> >> > > =14708.95833 per hour> >> > > > >> >> > >                 ÂÂ> >>                   ÂÂ> >>           ÂÂ> >> > > = 245.1493056 per minute> >> > > > >> >> > >                 ÂÂ> >>                   ÂÂ> >>           ÂÂ> >> > > = 4.085821759 per second.> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of> >> the> >> > > places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place> >> will> >> > > defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have> >> seen> >> > > charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within> >> 3degree> >> > > orb.> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > D.Senthil> >> > > > > ÂÂ> >> > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > mssumich mssumich >> >> > > > > BTR Theory> >> > > > > "Senthil" athi_ram >> >> > > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Dear Shri Senthil> >> > > > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so> >> many> >> > > births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc> >> sublord> >> > > will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math> >> part of> >> > > the proof you gave is very clear.> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> >> > > > > Thanks> >> > > > > MS> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Dear TinWin,> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> >> > > > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> >> > > > >> >> > > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the> >> > > method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant)> >> > > position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON> >> > > position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the> >> > > world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically> >> incorrect> >> > > and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & > >> > > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical> >> > > example and thanks for the same.> >> > > > >> >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!> >> > > > >> >> > > > > D.Senthil> >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >>> >> > >>> >> >>

[Guest guest]

Thankyou dear for the key to remember

 

Vijay

 

, " Swami_rcs " <swami.rcs wrote:

>

>

> Dear Vijay ji and friends,

> You are right.

> Here Late M P Shanmugham is talking of verification of Birth time alias

Ascendant based on moons Nakshatra at Birth.

> Principle is well known and discussed in hindu astrology by Late Sri Shanker

and few others.Col Gaur in his book on transits has also summarised this method

in appendix with slight variation.

> I am quoting the easy key to remember and apply

> Principle

> ASC SUB LORD OF A Native should show nak occupied by moon in some way.

> The way could be one of the conditions below or

> By aspect connection could also be made.

> Find SL of ASC Say it is X

> Look X it may be in Rasi R in Nak Y in SUB of Z

> Condition 1. Nak of MOON could be One owned by planet X

> Condition 2. Nak of Moon could be one owned by planet Y or Z

> Condition 3. Nak of Moon could be of sss occupied by Planet Y

> Condition 4. Nak of moon could be of SSS of one occupied by planet Z.

> I got my copy of vol II of astrosecret only a few days ago and am on journey.

I was surprised that Part II is a compilation only going through fourth edition

and editor has not bothered to correct the placement of charts at correct place.

> So far i have tried four conditions on few charts where astrological Birth

time is farly well known Like self and of Prof KSK ( same book article by MGG

Nayar page 249)etc.

> If useful i shall share if this method works well. I understand Rectification

shall be called for IF Within given range ,One cannot fit the events .

> With regards.

> RCS.

>

> , " vijay.goel " <goyalvj@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Punitji,

> >

> > //In my opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking

about the rectification method.//

> >

> > Very true ! i completely agree on it.

> >

> > I appreciate your hard work and straight attitude.

> >

> > I feel that their is some logic in SS, SSS as Late Shanmugam ji is

specifically mentioned in points b) to d), Else he would had described it in a

more simpler way.

> >

> > May be i am thinking in the wrong direction.

> >

> > Thankyou,

> > Regards,

> > Vijay Goel

> > Jaipur.

> >

> >

> > , Punit Pandey <punitp@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Vijay ji,

> > >

> > > I am not aware of any patent on the word " holistically " and hence used the

> > > word. By the way, your indirect comment is not appreciated because when I

> > > wanted to discuss the topic, you backed out and now this indirect comment

> > > which is trying to convey that the word " holistically " is a synonym with

> > > " absolutely correct " . Whenever you have interest in discussing

> > > Double-Transit, would appreciate that you respond my questions in that

topic

> > > which helps your point of view and hence take the discussion forward. My

> > > usage of word " holistically " doesn't add anything to that discussion, it

> > > doesn't make " holistically " a synonym for " correct. "

> > >

> > > Coming to Shanmugam ji method, I do not have any opinion to share with the

> > > forum. I personally do not use this method because I see no logic on

various

> > > facets like why Ascendant sub and not Moon's sub? Why Moon's nakshatra but

> > > not Ascedant's nakshtra? I do not have any good logical explanation for

> > > myself and hence I do not use it. Though I also felt that all our

discussion

> > > and study is mostly surrounding first point and not on all four points as

> > > suggested by Shanmugam ji. It also look like Lajmi ji also use first point

> > > only and not all four points most of the time. I didn't write about it

> > > earlier because of lack of interest in this topic. We would have discussed

> > > this topic 100+ times in the past and without any conclusion and hence no

> > > interest.

> > >

> > > After so many discussions on this topic, I emphesize verification

framework

> > > which is not very strong in KP. There is needed some simple and

> > > straight-forward way to verify whether the time is correct or not. In my

> > > opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about

> > > the rectification method.

> > >

> > > Thanks & Regards,

> > >

> > > Punit Pandey

> > >

> > >

> > > On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM, vijay.goel <goyalvj@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> Dear Punitji,

> > > >>

> > > >> //Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam *holistically*//

> > > >>

> > > >> Nice to see the use of word Holistically .

> > > >>

> > > >> *****

> > > >>

> > > >> Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from

KP

> > > >> experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all,

> > > >>

> > > >> I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself, its sub &

> > > >> sub sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star?

> > > >> II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ?

> > > >>

> > > >> I am expecting some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding

> > > >> from KP experts.

> > > >>

> > > >> Thanking you,

> > > >> Regards,

> > > >> Vijay Goel

> > > >> Jaipur.

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> , Punit Pandey <punitp@> wrote:

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Dear Friends,

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous

> > > >> studies

> > > >> > (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the

> > > >> study

> > > >> > has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically,

in

> > > >> my

> > > >> > opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as

Mr.

> > > >> > Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record

> > > >> > purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all

the

> > > >> > conditions (a to d)?

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Thanks & Regards,

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Punit Pandey

> > > >> >

> > > >> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:

> > > >> >

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book " Astro-Secrets and KP– Part

II "

> > > >> (M/s.

> > > >> > > Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > In his own words:

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > * " If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or

> > > >> wrong, the

> > > >> > > method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star

or

> > > >> the

> > > >> > > Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very

Birth

> > > >> > > Star will be more correct. "

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > *[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.

> > > >> > > I) 'X' could be moon's star.

> > > >> > > This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]*

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that

> > > >> > > Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.

> > > >> > > *

> > > >> > > [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet

> > > >> 'Y',

> > > >> > > II) 'Y' could be moon's star

> > > >> > > III) Y's sub could be moon's star (*Take this planet as 'Z'* )]

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > *c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that

> > > >> > > Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level,

> > > >> which will

> > > >> > > be the Birth Star.

> > > >> > > i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then

> > > >> > > SubSub(Anthara)-and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama).

> > > >> > > This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.

> > > >> > > *

> > > >> > > [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that

> > > >> sub sub

> > > >> > > (SS) is not taken here.]*

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a

> > > >> > > Star–Sub–SubSub–SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS),

which

> > > >> > > should tell the Birth Star.

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > *[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the

> > > >> moon's

> > > >> > > star.]*

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth

> > > >> (boopadhana),

> > > >> > > Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such

> > > >> > > circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone.

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four

> > > >> levels as

> > > >> > > explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the

> > > >> Birth

> > > >> > > Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up

to

> > > >> > > Sookshama level at times. " *

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he

had

> > > >> > > provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we

chose

> > > >> other

> > > >> > > factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities

and

> > > >> > > probabilites ratio will increase.

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > Thankyou,

> > > >> > > Regards,

> > > >> > > Vijay Goel

> > > >> > > Jaipur.

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > , Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,

> > > >> > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â The objective is to confirm the

> > > >> > > correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules

> > > >> mentioned

> > > >> > > are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is

correct...

> > > >> > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â As said by Vijayji,the gender

rule

> > > >> of

> > > >> > > Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...

> > > >> > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â BTR is as simple as that...

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. Â

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > vijay.goel goyalvj@

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > Re: BTR Theory

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > Â

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil ji,

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously

:

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > Rule 3:

> > > >> > > > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P.

> > > >> > > method)....

> > > >> > > > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : " If

the

> > > >> > > sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a

star,whose

> > > >> lord

> > > >> > > is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if

in

> > > >> a

> > > >> > > female sign,then the chart is of a female child... "

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > Rule 4 :

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a

given

> > > >> > > TOB...

> > > >> > > > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord

or

> > > >> s/l of

> > > >> > > the IXth cusp...

> > > >> > > > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul

> > > >> > > > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth

> > > >> > > > Ven - is chief significator of Kama

> > > >> > > > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last

mail,if

> > > >> I am

> > > >> > > not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > ************ ***

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > Thankyou,

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > Best Wishes,

> > > >> > > > Vijay Goel

> > > >> > > > Jaipur.

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > > > ---

> > > >> > > > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the

rules

> > > >> time

> > > >> > > being. We will talk about one RULE first.

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > > RULE:1

> > > >> > > > > *********

> > > >> > > > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more

closer

> > > >> values

> > > >> > > up to Seconds)

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica

l

> > > >> > > explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also

> > > >> studied with

> > > >> > > 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working

Well(More

> > > >> > > FAILURE results noticed).

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is

working

> > > >> FINE?

> > > >> > > As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book

understood

> > > >> his

> > > >> > > methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet

> > > >> points)ÂÂ

> > > >> > > about this RULE alone.

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > > RULE:2

> > > >> > > > > *********

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== =========

> > > >> ======

> > > >> > > > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time

one

> > > >> gets a

> > > >> > > cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII

> > > >> will be

> > > >> > > ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes

from

> > > >> > > having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the

> > > >> houses

> > > >> > > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at

that

> > > >> > > time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify

a

> > > >> Birth

> > > >> > > Chart...and so on...

> > > >> > > > > ============ end of part message ============ =========

=========

> > > >> =ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > > Reply:

> > > >> > > > > ====

> > > >> > > > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not

a

> > > >> RULE.

> > > >> > > Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not?

And

> > > >> many

> > > >> > > of them neither faced it nor remembers it.

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > > Other RULES

> > > >> > > > > =========

> > > >> > > > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well

experience

> > > >> > > wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion

and

> > > >> not

> > > >> > > coming forward to express their views except one or two members.

You

> > > >> may be

> > > >> > > so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all yourÂÂ

firing,

> > > >> > > angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my

head

> > > >> for

> > > >> > > your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any

personal

> > > >> feeling

> > > >> > > on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s

> > > >> > > review comments.

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > > D.Senthil

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>

> > > >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory

> > > >> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > >> > > > > Cc: " Senthil " athi_ram@ .>

> > > >> > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Dear Senthil,

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > >                 ÂÂ

> > > >>  You

> > > >> > > seem to be " at it " again...

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > >                 ÂÂ

> > > >>  Why

> > > >> > > are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in

> > > >> research

> > > >> > > in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove

> > > >> your

> > > >> > > point ?

> > > >> > > > >                ÂÂ

> > > >> ÂÂ

> > > >> > > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking

one

> > > >> rule

> > > >> > > of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden

your

> > > >> > > knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well- " researched "

> > > >> > > -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >                ÂÂ

> > > >>  As

> > > >> > > said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus

on...and

> > > >> you

> > > >> > > do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your

mail

> > > >> to

> > > >> > > Ms.Sujata Das...

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > >                 ÂÂ

> > > >>  On

> > > >> > > this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have

reiterated

> > > >> that

> > > >> > > the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the

same

> > > >> BTR

> > > >> > > that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events

> > > >> correctly

> > > >> > > as per D/B/A/S ...? !

> > > >> > > > >                ÂÂ

> > > >>  I

> > > >> > > have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the

> > > >> sub-sub

> > > >> > > level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even

> > > >> sub-sub-sub

> > > >> > > level...

> > > >> > > > >                ÂÂ

> > > >> ÂÂ

> > > >> > > With best wishes,

> > > >> > > > >                ÂÂ

> > > >> ÂÂ

> > > >> > > Yogesh Lajmi.

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > >                 ÂÂ

> > > >>                  ÂÂ

ÂÂ

> > > >>        ÂÂ

> > > >> > > GOOD LUCK !

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Senthil athi_ram >

> > > >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory

> > > >> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > >> > > > > Cc: rathluther

> > > >> > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star

> > > >> position

> > > >> > > in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the

> > > >> zodiac

> > > >> > > is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results

are

> > > >> given

> > > >> > > below.

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Hr.No.

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RASI

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Sgn

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Str

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Sub

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Degree

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Diff.

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 1

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA1

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > KET

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > KET

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 000:00:00

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 2

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA1

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > KET

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 000:46:40

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 3

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA1

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > KET

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > SUN

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 003:00:00

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 4

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA1

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > KET

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 003:40:00

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 5

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA1

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > KET

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 004:46:40

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 6

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA1

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > KET

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RAH

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 005:33:20

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 011:26:40

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 7

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA1

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > KET

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > JUP

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 007:33:20

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 8

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA1

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > KET

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > SAT

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 009:20:00

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 9

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA1

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > KET

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MER

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 011:26:40

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 10

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA1

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 013:20:00

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 11

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA1

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > SUN

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 015:33:20

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 12

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA1

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 016:13:20

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 13

> > > >> > > > >

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> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 017:20:00

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 14

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> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RAH

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 018:06:40

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 012:33:20

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 15

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA1

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > JUP

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 020:06:40

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 16

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA1

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > SAT

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 021:53:20

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 17

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA1

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MER

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 024:00:00

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 18

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA1

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > KET

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 025:53:20

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 19

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA1

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > SUN

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > SUN

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 026:40:00

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 20

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA1

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

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> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 095:26:40

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 68

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA4

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > SAT

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > KET

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 097:20:00

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 69

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA4

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > SAT

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 098:06:40

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 70

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA4

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > SAT

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > SUN

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 100:20:00

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 71

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA4

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > SAT

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 101:00:00

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 72

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA4

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > SAT

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 102:06:40

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 73

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA4

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > SAT

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RAH

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 102:53:20

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 011:33:20

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 74

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA4

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > SAT

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > JUP

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 104:53:20

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 75

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA4

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MER

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MER

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 106:40:00

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 76

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA4

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MER

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > KET

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 108:33:20

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 77

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA4

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MER

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > VEN

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 109:20:00

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 78

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA4

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MER

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > SUN

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 111:33:20

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 79

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA4

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MER

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 112:13:20

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 80

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA4

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MER

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MAR

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 113:20:00

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 81

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA4

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MER

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RAH

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 114:06:40

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 011:13:20

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 82

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA4

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MER

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > JUP

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 116:06:40

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 83

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > RA4

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MOO

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > MER

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > SAT

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > 117:53:20

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive

> > > >> occurrence of

> > > >> > > RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if

you

> > > >> > > assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest

> > > >> difference in

> > > >> > > degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(=

1Hour

> > > >> 44Min

> > > >> > > which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have

> > > >> assumed the

> > > >> > > average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it

> > > >> dependes

> > > >> > > upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more

than

> > > >> 2hours

> > > >> > > to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord &

> > > >> it's

> > > >> > > relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is

no

> > > >> > > question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of

> > > >> > > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two

> > > >> > > consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case)

But

> > > >> now it

> > > >> > > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min

(that

> > > >> > > is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).

This

> > > >> is

> > > >> > > absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the

childbirth

> > > >> can

> > > >> > > happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can

> > > >> > > decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > > D.Senthil

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther>

wrote:

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>

> > > >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory

> > > >> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > >> > > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Sir,

> > > >> > > > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in

Gemini.

> > > >> So as

> > > >> > > per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises

in

> > > >> > > various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this

> > > >> the

> > > >> > > ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is

Mercury.

> > > >> So

> > > >> > > now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take

place

> > > >> when

> > > >> > > 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn

rises.

> > > >> Then

> > > >> > > deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.

> > > >> > > > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-

> > > >> > > > > Capricorn 24-06-40

> > > >> > > > > Aquarius    6-40-00

> > > >> > > > > Pisces        1-20-00

> > > >> > > > > Pisces      12-53-20

> > > >> > > > > Pisces      24-06-40

> > > >> > > > > Aries         5-33-20

> > > >> > > > > Aries       18-06-40

> > > >> > > > > Aries      29-13-20

> > > >> > > > > Taurus     11-53-20

> > > >> > > > > Taurus     24-06-40

> > > >> > > > > Gemini       6-40-00

> > > >> > > > > Cancer      1-20-00

> > > >> > > > > Cancer     24-06-40

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for

today?

> > > >> Shall

> > > >> > > there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits

in

> > > >> > > constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation

is

> > > >> > > fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if

my

> > > >> > > understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this

> > > >> acceptable

> > > >> > > rule.

> > > >> > > > > Dr. Rath

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Senthil athi_ram >

> > > >> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > >> > > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM

> > > >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is

that

> > > >> there

> > > >> > > are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the

> > > >> position of

> > > >> > > Moon and such birth chart i have seen already.

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > > D.Senthil

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther>

wrote:

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>

> > > >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory

> > > >> > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > >> > > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Dear Senthil,

> > > >> > > > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4

> > > >> > > births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and

in

> > > >> next

> > > >> > > second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize

> > > >> this. I

> > > >> > > would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0

to

> > > >> 3

> > > >> > > degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while

> > > >> applying

> > > >> > > the rule in question while conducting BTR.

> > > >> > > > > Dr. Rath

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Senthil athi_ram >

> > > >> > > > > mssumich mssumich >

> > > >> > > > > Cc: @gro ups.com

> > > >> > > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM

> > > >> > > > > Re: BTR Theory

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Dear MS.

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given

below

> > > >> for

> > > >> > > Population Statistics.

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > >                 ÂÂ

> > > >>                  ÂÂ

ÂÂ

> > > >>           ÂÂ

> > > >> > > =14708.95833 per hour

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > >                 ÂÂ

> > > >>                  ÂÂ

ÂÂ

> > > >>           ÂÂ

> > > >> > > = 245.1493056 per minute

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > >                 ÂÂ

> > > >>                  ÂÂ

ÂÂ

> > > >>           ÂÂ

> > > >> > > = 4.085821759 per second.

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at anyÂÂ

of

> > > >> the

> > > >> > > places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place

> > > >> will

> > > >> > > defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I

have

> > > >> seen

> > > >> > > charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within

> > > >> 3degree

> > > >> > > orb.

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > > Hope the above gives the required information.

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > > > > D.Senthil

> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > mssumich mssumich >

> > > >> > > > > BTR Theory

> > > >> > > > > " Senthil " athi_ram >

> > > >> > > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Dear Shri Senthil

> > > >> > > > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are

so

> > > >> many

> > > >> > > births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc

> > > >> sublord

> > > >> > > will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The

math

> > > >> part of

> > > >> > > the proof you gave is very clear.

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.

> > > >> > > > > Thanks

> > > >> > > > > MS

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Dear TinWin,

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.

> > > >> > > > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the

> > > >> > > method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no

lagna(ascendant)

> > > >> > > position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal

MOON

> > > >> > > position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in

the

> > > >> > > world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically

> > > >> incorrect

> > > >> > > and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON &

> > > >> > > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with

practical

> > > >> > > example and thanks for the same.

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > D.Senthil

> > > >> > > > >

> > > >> > > >

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > >

> > > >> > >

> > > >> >

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dears Vijay Goel and RCS,

Pl. remember,as informed earlier, I am a professional Astrologer and charge fairly high fees,and thus cannot afford to make too many mistakes...I have experimented with the late Mr. M.P. Shanmugham's theory,(Astrosecrets & K.P. Part II)

extensively,and have slightly modified it to give the most accurate corrected/rectified TOB, provided the BTR to be corrected is within + or - 25 minutes of the actual TOB...if this limit is exceeded,then one can use the RPs method,or the IXth cusp method etc...as given in Astrosecrets & K.P., I have already given my slight modification,

several times in these columns...to arrive at the correct TOB exact to the minute... Many members have tried it out and are more than satisfied...with the results after cross-checking whether events match with the D/B/A/S...!

Members who have not tried this out are requested to try it out and then pl. give their comments and suggestions...

Surely, commenting without trying out the method suggested is grossly unfair...to the Sience of Astrology,to K.P., and experimenters like me...

With best wishes,

Yogesh Lajmi.

GOOD LUCK !

 

--- On Tue, 11/17/09, vijay.goel <goyalvj wrote:

vijay.goel <goyalvj Re: BTR Theory Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 7:21 AM

 

 

Thankyou dear for the key to remember :)Vijay@gro ups.com, "Swami_rcs" <swami.rcs@. ..> wrote:>> > Dear Vijay ji and friends,> You are right.> Here Late M P Shanmugham is talking of verification of Birth time alias Ascendant based on moons Nakshatra at Birth. > Principle is well known and discussed in hindu astrology by Late Sri Shanker and few others.Col Gaur in his book on transits has also summarised this method in appendix with slight variation.> I am quoting the easy key to remember and apply> Principle> ASC SUB LORD OF A Native should show nak occupied by moon in some way.> The way could be one of the conditions below or> By aspect connection could also be made.> Find SL of ASC Say it is X > Look

X it may be in Rasi R in Nak Y in SUB of Z> Condition 1. Nak of MOON could be One owned by planet X> Condition 2. Nak of Moon could be one owned by planet Y or Z > Condition 3. Nak of Moon could be of sss occupied by Planet Y > Condition 4. Nak of moon could be of SSS of one occupied by planet Z.> I got my copy of vol II of astrosecret only a few days ago and am on journey. I was surprised that Part II is a compilation only going through fourth edition and editor has not bothered to correct the placement of charts at correct place.> So far i have tried four conditions on few charts where astrological Birth time is farly well known Like self and of Prof KSK ( same book article by MGG Nayar page 249)etc.> If useful i shall share if this method works well. I understand Rectification shall be called for IF Within given range ,One cannot fit the events .> With regards.> RCS.> > ---

In @gro ups.com, "vijay.goel" <goyalvj@> wrote:> >> > Dear Punitji,> > > > //In my opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about the rectification method.//> > > > Very true ! i completely agree on it.> > > > I appreciate your hard work and straight attitude. > > > > I feel that their is some logic in SS, SSS as Late Shanmugam ji is specifically mentioned in points b) to d), Else he would had described it in a more simpler way.> > > > May be i am thinking in the wrong direction.> > > > Thankyou,> > Regards,> > Vijay Goel> > Jaipur.> > > > > > @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Vijay ji,> > > > > > I am not aware of any patent on the word "holistically" and hence used the> > > word. By the way, your indirect comment is not appreciated because when I> > > wanted to discuss the topic, you backed out and now this indirect comment> > > which is trying to convey that the word "holistically" is a synonym with> > > "absolutely correct". Whenever you have interest in discussing> > > Double-Transit, would appreciate that you respond my questions in that topic> > > which helps your point of view and hence take the discussion forward. My> > > usage of word "holistically" doesn't add anything to that

discussion, it> > > doesn't make "holistically" a synonym for "correct."> > > > > > Coming to Shanmugam ji method, I do not have any opinion to share with the> > > forum. I personally do not use this method because I see no logic on various> > > facets like why Ascendant sub and not Moon's sub? Why Moon's nakshatra but> > > not Ascedant's nakshtra? I do not have any good logical explanation for> > > myself and hence I do not use it. Though I also felt that all our discussion> > > and study is mostly surrounding first point and not on all four points as> > > suggested by Shanmugam ji. It also look like Lajmi ji also use first point> > > only and not all four points most of the time. I didn't write about it> > > earlier because of lack of interest in this topic. We would have discussed> > > this topic

100+ times in the past and without any conclusion and hence no> > > interest.> > > > > > After so many discussions on this topic, I emphesize verification framework> > > which is not very strong in KP. There is needed some simple and> > > straight-forward way to verify whether the time is correct or not. In my> > > opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about> > > the rectification method.> > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM, vijay.goel <goyalvj@> wrote:> > > >> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> Dear Punitji,> > > >>> > > >> //Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam

*holistically* //> > > >>> > > >> Nice to see the use of word Holistically .> > > >>> > > >> *****> > > >>> > > >> Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from KP> > > >> experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all,> > > >>> > > >> I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself, its sub & > > > >> sub sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star?> > > >> II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ?> > > >>> > > >> I am expecting some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding> > > >> from KP experts.> > > >>> > > >> Thanking you,> > > >>

Regards,> > > >> Vijay Goel> > > >> Jaipur.> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp@> wrote:> > > >> >> > > >> > Dear Friends,> > > >> >> > > >> > Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous> > > >> studies> > > >> > (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the> > > >> study> > > >> > has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically, in> > > >> my> > > >> > opinion all those

studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr.> > > >> > Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.> > > >> >> > > >> > I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record> > > >> > purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all the> > > >> > conditions (a to d)?> > > >> >> > > >> > Thanks & Regards,> > > >> >> > > >> > Punit Pandey> > > >> >> > > >> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:> > > >> >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > > Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,> > > >> > >> > >

>> > > Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book "Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II"> > > >> (M/s.> > > >> > > Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :> > > >> > >> > > >> > > In his own words:> > > >> > >> > > >> > > *"If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or> > > >> wrong, the> > > >> > > method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or> > > >> the> > > >> > > Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth> > > >> > > Star will be more correct."> > > >> > >> > > >> > > a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.> > > >> >

>> > > >> > > *[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.> > > >> > > I) 'X' could be moon's star.> > > >> > > This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]*> > > >> > >> > > >> > > b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that> > > >> > > Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.> > > >> > > *> > > >> > > [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet> > > >> 'Y',> > > >> > > II) 'Y' could be moon's star> > > >> > > III) Y's sub could be moon's star (*Take this planet as 'Z'* )]> > > >> > >> > > >> > > *c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that> >

> >> > > Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level,> > > >> which will> > > >> > > be the Birth Star.> > > >> > > i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then> > > >> > > SubSub(Anthara) -and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama).> > > >> > > This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.> > > >> > > *> > > >> > > [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that> > > >> sub sub> > > >> > > (SS) is not taken here.]*> > > >> > >> > > >> > > d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a> > > >> > > Star–Sub–SubSub– SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS),

which> > > >> > > should tell the Birth Star.> > > >> > >> > > >> > > *[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the> > > >> moon's> > > >> > > star.]*> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > > A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth> > > >> (boopadhana) ,> > > >> > > Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such> > > >> > > circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone.> > > >> > >> > > >> > > As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four> > > >> levels as> > > >> > > explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any

manner, touches the> > > >> Birth> > > >> > > Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to> > > >> > > Sookshama level at times." *> > > >> > >> > > >> > > Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had> > > >> > > provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose> > > >> other> > > >> > > factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and> > > >> > > probabilites ratio will increase.> > > >> > >> > > >> > > Thankyou,> > > >> > > Regards,> > > >> > > Vijay Goel> > > >> > > Jaipur.> > > >> > >> > >

>> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > > @gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > >> > > >                  The objective is to confirm the> > > >> > > correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules> > > >> mentioned> > > >> > > are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct...> > > >> > > >                  As said by Vijayji,the gender rule> > > >> of> > > >> > > Mr.Gondhalekar can also

be used...> > > >> > > >                   BTR is as simple as that...> > > >> > >> > > >> > > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. Â> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > vijay.goel goyalvj@> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > @gro ups.com> > > >> > > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM>

> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Â> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil ji,> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Rule 3:> > > >> > > > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P.> > > >> > > method)....> > > >> > > > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the> > > >> > > sub-lord of the sub-lord of

the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose> > > >> lord> > > >> > > is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in> > > >> a> > > >> > > female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Rule 4 :> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given> > > >> > > TOB...> > > >> > > > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or> > > >> s/l of> > > >> > > the IXth cusp...> > > >> > > > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul> > > >> > > > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of

childbirth> > > >> > > > Ven - is chief significator of Kama> > > >> > > > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if> > > >> I am> > > >> > > not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > ************ ***> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Thankyou,> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Best Wishes,> > > >> > > > Vijay Goel> > > >> > > > Jaipur.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > ---> > > >> > > > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:> > > >> > > > >>

> > >> > > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules> > > >> time> > > >> > > being. We will talk about one RULE first.> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > RULE:1> > > >> > > > > *********> > > >> > > > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord

(for more closer> > > >> values> > > >> > > up to Seconds)> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l> > > >> > > explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also> > > >> studied with> > > >> > > 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More> > > >> > > FAILURE results noticed).> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working> > > >> FINE?> > > >> > > As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood> > > >>

his> > > >> > > methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet> > > >> points)ÂÂ> > > >> > > about this RULE alone.> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > > > RULE:2> > > >> > > > > *********> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== =========> > > >> ======> > > >> > > > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one> > > >> gets a> > > >> > > cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII> > > >> will be> > > >> > > ruling the

Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from> > > >> > > having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the> > > >> houses> > > >> > > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that> > > >> > > time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a> > > >> Birth> > > >> > > Chart...and so on...> > > >> > > > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= =========> > > >> =ÂÂ> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > > > Reply:> > > >> > > > > ====> > > >> > > > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a> > >

>> RULE.> > > >> > > Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And> > > >> many> > > >> > > of them neither faced it nor remembers it.> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > Other RULES> > > >> > > > > =========> > > >> > > > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience> > > >> > > wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and> > > >> not> > > >> > > coming forward to express their views except one or two members.

You> > > >> may be> > > >> > > so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing,> > > >> > > angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head> > > >> for> > > >> > > your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal> > > >> feeling> > > >> > > on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s> > > >> > > review comments.> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >

> > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> > > >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > > @gro ups.com> > > >> > > > > Cc: "Senthil" athi_ram@ .>> > > >> > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> >

> > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Dear Senthil,> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >                 ÂÂ> > > >>  You> > > >> > > seem to be "at it" again...> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >            ÂÂ

    ÂÂ> > > >>  Why> > > >> > > are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in> > > >> research> > > >> > > in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove> > > >> your> > > >> > > point ?> > > >> > > > >                ÂÂ> > > >> ÂÂ> > > >> > > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one> > > >> rule> > > >> > > of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your> > > >> > > knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such

well-"researched"> > > >> > > -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >                ÂÂ> > > >>  As> > > >> > > said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and> > > >> you> > > >> > > do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail> > > >> to> > > >> > > Ms.Sujata Das...> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >                 ÂÂ> > > >>  On>

> > >> > > this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated> > > >> that> > > >> > > the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same> > > >> BTR> > > >> > > that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events> > > >> correctly> > > >> > > as per D/B/A/S ...? !> > > >> > > > >                ÂÂ> > > >>  I> > > >> > > have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the> > > >> sub-sub> > > >> > > level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even> > > >> sub-sub-sub> >

> >> > > level...> > > >> > > > >                ÂÂ> > > >> ÂÂ> > > >> > > With best wishes,> > > >> > > > >                ÂÂ> > > >> ÂÂ> > > >> > > Yogesh Lajmi.> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >                 ÂÂ> > > >>                   ÂÂ>

> > >>        ÂÂ> > > >> > > GOOD LUCK !> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > > @gro ups.com> > > >> > > > > Cc: rathluther > > > >> > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >

> ÂÂ> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star> > > >> position> > > >> > > in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the> > > >> zodiac> > > >> > > is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are> > > >> given> > > >> > > below.> > > >> > > > >

ÂÂ> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Hr.No.> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RASI> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Sgn> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Str> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >

Sub> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Degree> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Diff.> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 1> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > KET> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > KET> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 000:00:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >>

> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 2> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > KET> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 000:46:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >>

> > > > 3> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > KET> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SUN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 003:00:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 4> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > >> > >

>> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > KET> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 003:40:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 5> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > KET> > > >> > > > >>

> > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 004:46:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 6> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > KET> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RAH> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 005:33:20> > > >> > > >

>> > > >> > > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 7> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > KET> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > JUP> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 007:33:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> >

> > > 8> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > KET> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SAT> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 009:20:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 9> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > >> > > >>

> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > KET> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 10> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > >

>> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 013:20:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 11> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SUN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 015:33:20> > > >> > > >

>> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 12> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 016:13:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >

>> > > >> > > > > 13> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 017:20:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 14> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA1> > > >> >

> > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RAH> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 018:06:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 15> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> >

> >> > > > > JUP> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 020:06:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 16> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SAT> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 021:53:20> > > >> > > >

>> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 17> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 024:00:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >

>> > > >> > > > > 18> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > KET> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 025:53:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 19> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA1> > > >> >

> > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SUN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SUN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 026:40:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SUN> > >

>> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 027:20:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 21> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SUN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >

028:26:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 22> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SUN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RAH> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 029:13:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 011:06:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >>

> > > >> > > >> > > > > 23> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA2> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SUN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RAH> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 030:00:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 24> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA2> > >

>> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SUN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > JUP> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 031:13:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 25> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA2> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SUN>

> > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SAT> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 033:00:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 26> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA2> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SUN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >

035:06:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 27> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA2> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SUN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > KET> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 037:00:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > >

> >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 28> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA2> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SUN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 037:46:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 29> > > >> > > > >> > > >> >

> > > RA2> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 040:00:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 30> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA2> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > >

>> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 041:06:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 31> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA2> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RAH> > > >> > > > >>

> > >> > > > > 041:53:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 011:53:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 32> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA2> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > JUP> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 043:53:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> >

> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 33> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA2> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SAT> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 045:40:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 34> > > >> > > > >> > > >>

> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 047:46:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 35> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA2> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > >

>> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > KET> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 049:40:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 36> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA2> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >>

> > >> > > > > 050:26:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 37> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA2> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SUN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 052:40:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> >

>> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 38> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA2> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 053:20:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 39> > > >> > >

> >> > > >> > > > > RA2> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RAH> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 054:06:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 012:13:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA2> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > >

>> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > JUP> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 056:06:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 41> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA2> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SAT> > > >> > > > >>

> > >> > > > > 057:53:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 42> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 060:00:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> >

>> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 43> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > KET> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 061:53:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 44> > > >> > >

> >> > > >> > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 062:40:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 45> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >>

> > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SUN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 064:53:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 46> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > >

>> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 065:33:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 47> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RAH> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RAH> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 066:40:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >

012:33:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 48> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RAH> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > JUP> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 068:40:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 49> > > >> >

> > >> > > >> > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RAH> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SAT> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 070:26:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 50> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > >

>> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RAH> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 072:33:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 51> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RAH> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > KET>

> > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 074:26:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 52> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RAH> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 075:13:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >

> ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 53> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RAH> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SUN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 077:26:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >

> 54> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RAH> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 078:06:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 55> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > >> > > >> >

> > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RAH> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 079:13:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 56> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > JUP> > > >> > > > >> > >

>> > > > > JUP> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 080:00:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 57> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > JUP> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SAT> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 081:46:40> > > >> > > >

>> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 58> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > JUP> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 083:53:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >

>> > > >> > > > > 59> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > JUP> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > KET> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 085:46:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 60> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA3> > > >> >

> > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > JUP> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 086:33:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 61> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > JUP> > >

>> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SUN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 088:46:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 62> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > JUP> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >

089:26:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 63> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > JUP> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 090:00:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > >

> >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 64> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > JUP> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 090:33:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 65> > > >> > > > >> > > >> >

> > > RA4> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > JUP> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RAH> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 091:20:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 024:40:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 66> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SAT>

> > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SAT> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 093:20:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 67> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SAT> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >

095:26:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 68> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SAT> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > KET> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 097:20:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > >

> >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 69> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SAT> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 098:06:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 70> > > >> > > > >> > > >> >

> > > RA4> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SAT> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SUN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 100:20:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 71> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > >

>> > > > > SAT> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 101:00:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 72> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SAT> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >>

> > >> > > > > 102:06:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 73> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SAT> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RAH> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 102:53:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 011:33:20> > > >> >

> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 74> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SAT> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > JUP> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 104:53:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 75> > > >> > > > >> > > >>

> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 106:40:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 76> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > >

>> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > KET> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 108:33:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 77> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > >>

> > >> > > > > 109:20:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 78> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SUN> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 111:33:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> >

>> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 79> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 112:13:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 80> > > >> > >

> >> > > >> > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 113:20:00> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 81> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >>

> > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RAH> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 114:06:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 011:13:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 82> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > JUP> > > >> > > > >>

> > >> > > > > 116:06:40> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 83> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > MER> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > SAT> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > 117:53:20> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >

> > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive> > > >> occurrence of> > > >> > > RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you> > > >> > > assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest> > > >> difference in> > > >> > > degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour> > > >> 44Min> > > >> > > which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have> > > >> assumed the> > > >> > > average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it> > > >> dependes> > > >> > >

upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than> > > >> 2hours> > > >> > > to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & > > > >> it's> > > >> > > relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no> > > >> > > question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of> > > >> > > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two> > > >> > > consecutive childbir th around the globe (for

particular case) But> > > >> now it> > > >> > > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that> > > >> > > is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This> > > >> is> > > >> > > absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth> > > >> can> > > >> > > happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can> > > >> > > decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > >> >

> >> > > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > > @gro ups.com> > > >> > > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Sir,> > > >> > > > > Today Moon is transiting in

the constellation of Rahu in Gemini.> > > >> So as> > > >> > > per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in> > > >> > > various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this> > > >> the> > > >> > > ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury.> > > >> So> > > >> > > now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place> > > >> when> > > >> > > 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises.> > > >> Then> > > >> > > deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > > >> > > > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > > >> > > > >

Capricorn 24-06-40> > > >> > > > > Aquarius    6-40-00> > > >> > > > > Pisces        1-20-00> > > >> > > > > Pisces      12-53-20> > > >> > > > > Pisces      24-06-40> > > >> > > > > Aries         5-33-20> > > >> > > > > Aries       18-06-40> > > >> > > > > Aries      29-13-20> > > >> > > > > Taurus     11-53-20> > > >> > > > >

Taurus     24-06-40> > > >> > > > > Gemini       6-40-00> > > >> > > > > Cancer      1-20-00> > > >> > > > > Cancer     24-06-40> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today?> > > >> Shall> > > >> > > there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in> > > >> > > constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is> > > >> > > fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my> > > >> > > understanding is wrong. It is a mater of

concern how for is this> > > >> acceptable> > > >> > > rule.> > > >> > > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > >> > > > > @gro ups.com> > > >> > > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > > >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >

> >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that> > > >> there> > > >> > > are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the> > > >> position of> > > >> > > Moon and such birth chart i have seen already.> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > >> > >

>> > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > >> > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > > @gro ups.com> > > >> > > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Dear Senthil,> > > >> > > > > The statictics is

true. On an average there shall take place 4> > > >> > > births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in> > > >> next> > > >> > > second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize> > > >> this. I> > > >> > > would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to> > > >> 3> > > >> > > degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while> > > >> applying> > > >> > > the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > > >> > > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >

>> > > >> > > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > >> > > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > >> > > > > Cc: @gro ups.com> > > >> > > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > > >> > > > > Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Dear MS.> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> >

> >> > > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below> > > >> for> > > >> > > Population Statistics.> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >                 ÂÂ> > > >>              ÂÂ

    ÂÂ> > > >>           ÂÂ> > > >> > > =14708.95833 per hour> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >                 ÂÂ> > > >>                   ÂÂ> > > >>           ÂÂ> > > >> > > = 245.1493056 per minute> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >          ÂÂ

      ÂÂ> > > >>                   ÂÂ> > > >>           ÂÂ> > > >> > > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of> > > >> the> > > >> > > places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place> > > >> will> > > >> > > defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have> > > >> seen> > > >> > > charts where Natal MOON &

lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within> > > >> 3degree> > > >> > > orb.> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > mssumich mssumich >>

> > >> > > > > BTR Theory> > > >> > > > > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > > >> > > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > > >> > > > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so> > > >> many> > > >> > > births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc> > > >> sublord> > > >> > > will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math> > > >> part of> > > >> > > the proof you gave is very clear.> > > >> > > > >> > > >> >

> > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > > >> > > > > Thanks> > > >> > > > > MS> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Dear TinWin,> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > > >> > > > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the> > > >> > > method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no

lagna(ascendant)> > > >> > > position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON> > > >> > > position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the> > > >> > > world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically> > > >> incorrect> > > >> > > and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & > > > >> > > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical> > > >> > > example and thanks for the same.> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > >> > > > >> >

> >> > > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> >> > > >>> > > >> > > > >>> > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Respected Yogesh Guruji,

Kindly quote the message number in which you have narrated the method tried by you.

regards,

sujatkaram.

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.

[Guest guest]

The Ascdt of the child should be co-ruled by Planets that are linked to 5, 8 and 2 houses (i.e 2,5,and 11 from 4).

This could be more correct than considering 10, 5 and 7 houses.

Dr. Rath

 

 

 

Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi Cc: Santhosh10Sent: Fri, November 13, 2009 12:14:58 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Santhosh

Cold logic alone,supports the view that only the mother knows for sure as to who is the Father of her child...! !

It would'nt it therefore be very logical to prefer to take the mother's Vth cusp...

With best wishes,

Yogesh Lajmi.

GOOD LUCK !

santhosh10 <santhosh10 >Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comThursday, November 12, 2009, 2:46 PM

Dear vijay, thats an unnecessary controversy. Both mother and father are equally responsible. Ur view isnt supported in any scripture. Hence you should take fourth house also, just as you take 9th house.ThanksSanthosh

Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel

 

"vijay.goel" <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:31:01 -0000

<@gro ups.com>

Re: BTR Theory

Respected members,On BTR method:Since the birth of a child takes place when the father of the child runs the joint period of Planets that are fruitful significators of 2,5 and 11 we say that the Ascdt of the child should be co-ruled by Planets that are linked to 10,5 and 7 houses (i.e 2,5,and 11 from 9). I took father because he is mainly responsible for the seed and gender of the child.Did we had the discussion on this concept earlier, did we applied and checked the validity of above statement, is it logically correct as per KP methods to apply it. ???Just a curiocity !Thankyou,Best Wishes,Vijay GoelJaipur@gro ups.com, "TW" <tw853 wrote:>> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 26419> > > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash

Ghosh" suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> >> > I think Lajmiji's point is very easy to verify by being present at any Nursing Home and noting down the time of First Cry. The clock must be a digital one and tuned to atomic clock. 3-4 cases are sufficient to have a first cut idea. Any doc in this forum to help?> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:39 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > > > The topic is closed because there were no fresh ideas. We were not heading anywhere due to very limited participation. What we were seeing was 'repeatation' of whatever was already said. > >

> > If there is something new and fresh, please feel free to start a new topic. We must always remember that is is never possible that all accept our points. Acceptation of rejection is one's own choice. What most we can do is put our point best of our understanding. Truly speaking, I myself lost interest in this topic, because every time we are discussing the same point for few years now and without any method of concluding anything. Probably we need to give more emphasis to event verification for the rectified time. That seems the only method to decide in such a situation. > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Suprakash Ghosh suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> > > > > >  > > > > Dear Punitji> > > > I personally feel that Senthilji has

valid logic. On the other hand Lajmiji has his experience. We have to meet the both ends. for that we need research and case study. Who else other than us can find a good theory with valid logic? Remember KSk was always for logical thinking.> > I think it is not wise to close the topic. It may generate heat..but that is a healthy sign .. solution comes from conflct...not bypassing it.> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > - > > Senthil > > @gro ups.com > > Cc: rathluther@ > > Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:05 AM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath, > > > > > > Further to my E-mail below I would like to add some more points. I have taken the whole zodiac (360 Degree) and worked

out the total Degree occupied by the each SUB lords. Which is actually equal to the respective planet’s Vimshotri Year x 3 (=Vimshotri Year /120 x 360 Deg). > > > > > > Ascendant> > SUB> > LORD> > Total Birth > > Zone> > (Degree)> > Total No > > Birth Zone> > (Degree)> > Total Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > Total No Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > > > KET> > 21> > 339> > 1:24> > 22:36> > > > VEN> > 60> > 300> > 4:00> > 20:00> > > > SUN> > 18> > 342> > 1:12> > 22:48> > > > MOO> > 30> > 330> > 2:00> > 22:00> > > > MAR> > 21> > 339> >

1:24> > 22:36> > > > RAH> > 54> > 306> > 3:36> > 20:24> > > > JUP> > 48> > 312> > 3:12> > 20:48> > > > SAT> > 57> > 303> > 3:48> > 20:12> > > > MER> > 51> > 309> > 3:24> > 20:36> > > > > > > > > > > > For example if you take SUN sub, it is occupied in the different Sign, Star of the zodiac whose total degree workout to 18 Degree. This means that the total possible childbirth Zone (Ascendant movement zone) is 18 Degree only (1Hr: 12min). So the balance 342 Degree in the zodiac can be called as total NO BIRTH ZONE (Here No birth Zone word is appropriate instead of calling it as barren Zone which will confuse more) the corresponding total NO BIRTH TIME

ZONE works out to (22Hr: 48min). > > > > > > If you consider the MOON motion per day it varies from 11 Degree to 15 Degree depending upon the Sign, Star in which it is transiting. Suppose the MOON motion is 11Degree in a particular day who’s constellation is SUN then the MOON will take approximately 29 Hours to complete the Transit over SUN star. So the one full movement of ascendant will happen in 24 hours plus 5 hours in the next day also. Within these 5 hours the approximate movement of ascendant will 70 Degree (at the rate of 1 deg for 4 min). During this time the BIRTH ZONE(total) works out to 3Degree 20minute only (0Hr: 13min: 20Sec assuming that the ascendant transit happens from Zero Degree Aries to 15 Degree Gemini). So the balance 71Degree 40Minute in the zodiac the ascendant will transit again in NO BIRTH ZONE(total) corresponding NO BIRTH TIME ZONE(total) works out to 4Hr: 46min: 40Sec. > >

> > > > Within 29 hours block time (worst case) as a total the NO BIRTH TIME ZONE and BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (27Hr: 34min: 40Sec) and (1Hr: 25min: 20Sec) respectively. Kindly note that in this case the NATAL MOON position and the Ascendant need not be in closer range/orb and the Ascendant can be anywhere in the zodiac. So if the MOON is in SUN star, In this world no birth should happen for about 27Hr: 34min: 40Sec(as a total not consecutive time) out of 29 hours block time. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT/IMPOSSIBL E. THERE ARE AMPLE NO OF CHANCES THAT THE CHILDBIRTH CAN HAPPEN DURING THIS TIME INTERVAL AROUND THE WORLD AT SOMEWHERE AT SOME PLACE WHO’S ASCENDANT CAN BE IN THE NO BIRTH ZONE ALSO. SO NOW YOU CAN DECIDE THE RULE IS ACCEPTABLE OR NOT!!!!!!! > > > > > > GOOD LUCK! > > > > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09,

Senthil athi_ram@ wrote:> > > > > > Senthil athi_ram@> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Cc: rathluther@> > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 9:21 AM> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below.> > > > > > Hr.No. > > > > > > RASI > > > > > > Sgn > > > > > > Str > > > > > > Sub > > > > > > Degree> > Diff.> > > > 1> > RA1> >

MAR> > KET> > KET> > 000:00:00> > > > > > 2> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > VEN> > 000:46:40> > > > > > 3> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SUN> > 003:00:00> > > > > > 4> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MOO> > 003:40:00> > > > > > 5> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MAR> > 004:46:40> > > > > > 6> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > RAH> > 005:33:20> > 011:26:40> > > > 7> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > JUP> > 007:33:20> > > > > > 8> > RA1> > MAR> >

KET> > SAT> > 009:20:00> > > > > > 9> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MER> > 011:26:40> > > > > > 10> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > VEN> > 013:20:00> > > > > > 11> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SUN> > 015:33:20> > > > > > 12> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MOO> > 016:13:20> > > > > > 13> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MAR> > 017:20:00> > > > > > 14> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > RAH> > 018:06:40> > 012:33:20> > > > 15> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN>

> JUP> > 020:06:40> > > > > > 16> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SAT> > 021:53:20> > > > > > 17> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MER> > 024:00:00> > > > > > 18> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > KET> > 025:53:20> > > > > > 19> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > SUN> > 026:40:00> > > > > > 20> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MOO> > 027:20:00> > > > > > 21> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MAR> > 028:26:40> > > > > > 22> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > RAH> >

029:13:20> > 011:06:40> > > > 23> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > RAH> > 030:00:00> > > > > > 24> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > JUP> > 031:13:20> > > > > > 25> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > SAT> > 033:00:00> > > > > > 26> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > MER> > 035:06:40> > > > > > 27> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > KET> > 037:00:00> > > > > > 28> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > VEN> > 037:46:40> > > > > > 29> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MOO> >

040:00:00> > > > > > 30> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MAR> > 041:06:40> > > > > > 31> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > RAH> > 041:53:20> > 011:53:20> > > > 32> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > JUP> > 043:53:20> > > > > > 33> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SAT> > 045:40:00> > > > > > 34> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MER> > 047:46:40> > > > > > 35> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > KET> > 049:40:00> > > > > > 36> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > VEN> >

050:26:40> > > > > > 37> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SUN> > 052:40:00> > > > > > 38> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > MAR> > 053:20:00> > > > > > 39> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > RAH> > 054:06:40> > 012:13:20> > > > 40> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > JUP> > 056:06:40> > > > > > 41> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > SAT> > 057:53:20> > > > > > 42> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MER> > 060:00:00> > > > > > 43> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > KET> >

061:53:20> > > > > > 44> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > VEN> > 062:40:00> > > > > > 45> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > SUN> > 064:53:20> > > > > > 46> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MOO> > 065:33:20> > > > > > 47> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > RAH> > 066:40:00> > 012:33:20> > > > 48> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > JUP> > 068:40:00> > > > > > 49> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SAT> > 070:26:40> > > > > > 50> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MER> >

072:33:20> > > > > > 51> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > KET> > 074:26:40> > > > > > 52> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > VEN> > 075:13:20> > > > > > 53> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SUN> > 077:26:40> > > > > > 54> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MOO> > 078:06:40> > > > > > 55> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MAR> > 079:13:20> > > > > > 56> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > JUP> > 080:00:00> > > > > > 57> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SAT> > 081:46:40> >

> > > > 58> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MER> > 083:53:20> > > > > > 59> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > KET> > 085:46:40> > > > > > 60> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > VEN> > 086:33:20> > > > > > 61> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SUN> > 088:46:40> > > > > > 62> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MOO> > 089:26:40> > > > > > 63> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MOO> > 090:00:00> > > > > > 64> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MAR> > 090:33:20> > > > >

> 65> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > RAH> > 091:20:00> > 024:40:00> > > > 66> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SAT> > 093:20:00> > > > > > 67> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MER> > 095:26:40> > > > > > 68> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > KET> > 097:20:00> > > > > > 69> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > VEN> > 098:06:40> > > > > > 70> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SUN> > 100:20:00> > > > > > 71> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MOO> > 101:00:00> > > > > >

72> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MAR> > 102:06:40> > > > > > 73> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > RAH> > 102:53:20> > 011:33:20> > > > 74> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > JUP> > 104:53:20> > > > > > 75> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MER> > 106:40:00> > > > > > 76> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > KET> > 108:33:20> > > > > > 77> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > VEN> > 109:20:00> > > > > > 78> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SUN> > 111:33:20> > > > > > 79>

> RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MOO> > 112:13:20> > > > > > 80> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MAR> > 113:20:00> > > > > > 81> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > RAH> > 114:06:40> > 011:13:20> > > > 82> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > JUP> > 116:06:40> > > > > > 83> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SAT> > 117:53:20> > > > > > > > > > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive

occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbirth around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that

the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > > > > > > Sir, > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should

take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > Capricorn 24-06-40> > Aquarius 6-40-00> > Pisces 1-20-00> > Pisces 12-53-20> > Pisces 24-06-40> > Aries 5-33-20> > Aries 18-06-40> > Aries 29-13-20> > Taurus 11-53-20> > Taurus 24-06-40> > Gemini 6-40-00> > Cancer 1-20-00> > Cancer 24-06-40> > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule.> >

Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> > Senthil athi_ram >> > @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro

ups.com> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --> > Senthil athi_ram >> > mssumich mssumich >> > Cc: @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > Re: BTR Theory> > >

> > > Dear MS.> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics.> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009 = 353,015 births > > =14708.95833 per hour> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich

mssumich > wrote:> > > > > > mssumich mssumich >> > BTR Theory> > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > Thanks> > MS> > > > > > > > > > Dear TinWin,> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > > With the simple logical

calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> >>

[Guest guest]

Sorry to intervene. I may be excused.

Mother is 100 % sure while father is not. But it should be a trade secret for all astrologers.

Dr. Rath.

 

 

 

 

 

"santhosh10" <santhosh10 Sent: Fri, November 13, 2009 5:21:45 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory

Yogeshji, when u look at it so coldly, i think i should agree will agree with you. Anyway, since thats not always the case, i believe it wont be a bad idea to check fathers 5th house with childs 9th house.Best wishes Santhosh

Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel

 

Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ >

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:44:58 -0800 (PST)

<@gro ups.com>

Cc: <Santhosh10 >

Re: Re: BTR Theory

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Santhosh

Cold logic alone,supports the view that only the mother knows for sure as to who is the Father of her child...! !

It would'nt it therefore be very logical to prefer to take the mother's Vth cusp...

With best wishes,

Yogesh Lajmi.

GOOD LUCK !

santhosh10 <santhosh10 >Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comThursday, November 12, 2009, 2:46 PM

Dear vijay, thats an unnecessary controversy. Both mother and father are equally responsible. Ur view isnt supported in any scripture. Hence you should take fourth house also, just as you take 9th house.ThanksSanthosh

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"vijay.goel" <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:31:01 -0000

<@gro ups.com>

Re: BTR Theory

Respected members,On BTR method:Since the birth of a child takes place when the father of the child runs the joint period of Planets that are fruitful significators of 2,5 and 11 we say that the Ascdt of the child should be co-ruled by Planets that are linked to 10,5 and 7 houses (i.e 2,5,and 11 from 9). I took father because he is mainly responsible for the seed and gender of the child.Did we had the discussion on this concept earlier, did we applied and checked the validity of above statement, is it logically correct as per KP methods to apply it. ???Just a curiocity !Thankyou,Best Wishes,Vijay GoelJaipur@gro ups.com, "TW" <tw853 wrote:>> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 26419> > > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash

Ghosh" suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> >> > I think Lajmiji's point is very easy to verify by being present at any Nursing Home and noting down the time of First Cry. The clock must be a digital one and tuned to atomic clock. 3-4 cases are sufficient to have a first cut idea. Any doc in this forum to help?> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:39 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > > > The topic is closed because there were no fresh ideas. We were not heading anywhere due to very limited participation. What we were seeing was 'repeatation' of whatever was already said. > >

> > If there is something new and fresh, please feel free to start a new topic. We must always remember that is is never possible that all accept our points. Acceptation of rejection is one's own choice. What most we can do is put our point best of our understanding. Truly speaking, I myself lost interest in this topic, because every time we are discussing the same point for few years now and without any method of concluding anything. Probably we need to give more emphasis to event verification for the rectified time. That seems the only method to decide in such a situation. > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Suprakash Ghosh suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> > > > > >  > > > > Dear Punitji> > > > I personally feel that Senthilji has

valid logic. On the other hand Lajmiji has his experience. We have to meet the both ends. for that we need research and case study. Who else other than us can find a good theory with valid logic? Remember KSk was always for logical thinking.> > I think it is not wise to close the topic. It may generate heat..but that is a healthy sign .. solution comes from conflct...not bypassing it.> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > - > > Senthil > > @gro ups.com > > Cc: rathluther@ > > Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:05 AM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath, > > > > > > Further to my E-mail below I would like to add some more points. I have taken the whole zodiac (360 Degree) and worked

out the total Degree occupied by the each SUB lords. Which is actually equal to the respective planet’s Vimshotri Year x 3 (=Vimshotri Year /120 x 360 Deg). > > > > > > Ascendant> > SUB> > LORD> > Total Birth > > Zone> > (Degree)> > Total No > > Birth Zone> > (Degree)> > Total Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > Total No Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > > > KET> > 21> > 339> > 1:24> > 22:36> > > > VEN> > 60> > 300> > 4:00> > 20:00> > > > SUN> > 18> > 342> > 1:12> > 22:48> > > > MOO> > 30> > 330> > 2:00> > 22:00> > > > MAR> > 21> > 339> >

1:24> > 22:36> > > > RAH> > 54> > 306> > 3:36> > 20:24> > > > JUP> > 48> > 312> > 3:12> > 20:48> > > > SAT> > 57> > 303> > 3:48> > 20:12> > > > MER> > 51> > 309> > 3:24> > 20:36> > > > > > > > > > > > For example if you take SUN sub, it is occupied in the different Sign, Star of the zodiac whose total degree workout to 18 Degree. This means that the total possible childbirth Zone (Ascendant movement zone) is 18 Degree only (1Hr: 12min). So the balance 342 Degree in the zodiac can be called as total NO BIRTH ZONE (Here No birth Zone word is appropriate instead of calling it as barren Zone which will confuse more) the corresponding total NO BIRTH TIME

ZONE works out to (22Hr: 48min). > > > > > > If you consider the MOON motion per day it varies from 11 Degree to 15 Degree depending upon the Sign, Star in which it is transiting. Suppose the MOON motion is 11Degree in a particular day who’s constellation is SUN then the MOON will take approximately 29 Hours to complete the Transit over SUN star. So the one full movement of ascendant will happen in 24 hours plus 5 hours in the next day also. Within these 5 hours the approximate movement of ascendant will 70 Degree (at the rate of 1 deg for 4 min). During this time the BIRTH ZONE(total) works out to 3Degree 20minute only (0Hr: 13min: 20Sec assuming that the ascendant transit happens from Zero Degree Aries to 15 Degree Gemini). So the balance 71Degree 40Minute in the zodiac the ascendant will transit again in NO BIRTH ZONE(total) corresponding NO BIRTH TIME ZONE(total) works out to 4Hr: 46min: 40Sec. > >

> > > > Within 29 hours block time (worst case) as a total the NO BIRTH TIME ZONE and BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (27Hr: 34min: 40Sec) and (1Hr: 25min: 20Sec) respectively. Kindly note that in this case the NATAL MOON position and the Ascendant need not be in closer range/orb and the Ascendant can be anywhere in the zodiac. So if the MOON is in SUN star, In this world no birth should happen for about 27Hr: 34min: 40Sec(as a total not consecutive time) out of 29 hours block time. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT/IMPOSSIBL E. THERE ARE AMPLE NO OF CHANCES THAT THE CHILDBIRTH CAN HAPPEN DURING THIS TIME INTERVAL AROUND THE WORLD AT SOMEWHERE AT SOME PLACE WHO’S ASCENDANT CAN BE IN THE NO BIRTH ZONE ALSO. SO NOW YOU CAN DECIDE THE RULE IS ACCEPTABLE OR NOT!!!!!!! > > > > > > GOOD LUCK! > > > > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09,

Senthil athi_ram@ wrote:> > > > > > Senthil athi_ram@> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Cc: rathluther@> > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 9:21 AM> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below.> > > > > > Hr.No. > > > > > > RASI > > > > > > Sgn > > > > > > Str > > > > > > Sub > > > > > > Degree> > Diff.> > > > 1> > RA1> >

MAR> > KET> > KET> > 000:00:00> > > > > > 2> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > VEN> > 000:46:40> > > > > > 3> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SUN> > 003:00:00> > > > > > 4> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MOO> > 003:40:00> > > > > > 5> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MAR> > 004:46:40> > > > > > 6> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > RAH> > 005:33:20> > 011:26:40> > > > 7> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > JUP> > 007:33:20> > > > > > 8> > RA1> > MAR> >

KET> > SAT> > 009:20:00> > > > > > 9> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MER> > 011:26:40> > > > > > 10> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > VEN> > 013:20:00> > > > > > 11> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SUN> > 015:33:20> > > > > > 12> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MOO> > 016:13:20> > > > > > 13> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MAR> > 017:20:00> > > > > > 14> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > RAH> > 018:06:40> > 012:33:20> > > > 15> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN>

> JUP> > 020:06:40> > > > > > 16> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SAT> > 021:53:20> > > > > > 17> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MER> > 024:00:00> > > > > > 18> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > KET> > 025:53:20> > > > > > 19> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > SUN> > 026:40:00> > > > > > 20> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MOO> > 027:20:00> > > > > > 21> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MAR> > 028:26:40> > > > > > 22> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > RAH> >

029:13:20> > 011:06:40> > > > 23> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > RAH> > 030:00:00> > > > > > 24> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > JUP> > 031:13:20> > > > > > 25> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > SAT> > 033:00:00> > > > > > 26> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > MER> > 035:06:40> > > > > > 27> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > KET> > 037:00:00> > > > > > 28> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > VEN> > 037:46:40> > > > > > 29> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MOO> >

040:00:00> > > > > > 30> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MAR> > 041:06:40> > > > > > 31> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > RAH> > 041:53:20> > 011:53:20> > > > 32> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > JUP> > 043:53:20> > > > > > 33> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SAT> > 045:40:00> > > > > > 34> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MER> > 047:46:40> > > > > > 35> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > KET> > 049:40:00> > > > > > 36> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > VEN> >

050:26:40> > > > > > 37> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SUN> > 052:40:00> > > > > > 38> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > MAR> > 053:20:00> > > > > > 39> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > RAH> > 054:06:40> > 012:13:20> > > > 40> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > JUP> > 056:06:40> > > > > > 41> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > SAT> > 057:53:20> > > > > > 42> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MER> > 060:00:00> > > > > > 43> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > KET> >

061:53:20> > > > > > 44> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > VEN> > 062:40:00> > > > > > 45> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > SUN> > 064:53:20> > > > > > 46> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MOO> > 065:33:20> > > > > > 47> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > RAH> > 066:40:00> > 012:33:20> > > > 48> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > JUP> > 068:40:00> > > > > > 49> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SAT> > 070:26:40> > > > > > 50> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MER> >

072:33:20> > > > > > 51> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > KET> > 074:26:40> > > > > > 52> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > VEN> > 075:13:20> > > > > > 53> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SUN> > 077:26:40> > > > > > 54> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MOO> > 078:06:40> > > > > > 55> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MAR> > 079:13:20> > > > > > 56> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > JUP> > 080:00:00> > > > > > 57> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SAT> > 081:46:40> >

> > > > 58> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MER> > 083:53:20> > > > > > 59> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > KET> > 085:46:40> > > > > > 60> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > VEN> > 086:33:20> > > > > > 61> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SUN> > 088:46:40> > > > > > 62> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MOO> > 089:26:40> > > > > > 63> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MOO> > 090:00:00> > > > > > 64> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MAR> > 090:33:20> > > > >

> 65> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > RAH> > 091:20:00> > 024:40:00> > > > 66> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SAT> > 093:20:00> > > > > > 67> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MER> > 095:26:40> > > > > > 68> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > KET> > 097:20:00> > > > > > 69> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > VEN> > 098:06:40> > > > > > 70> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SUN> > 100:20:00> > > > > > 71> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MOO> > 101:00:00> > > > > >

72> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MAR> > 102:06:40> > > > > > 73> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > RAH> > 102:53:20> > 011:33:20> > > > 74> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > JUP> > 104:53:20> > > > > > 75> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MER> > 106:40:00> > > > > > 76> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > KET> > 108:33:20> > > > > > 77> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > VEN> > 109:20:00> > > > > > 78> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SUN> > 111:33:20> > > > > > 79>

> RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MOO> > 112:13:20> > > > > > 80> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MAR> > 113:20:00> > > > > > 81> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > RAH> > 114:06:40> > 011:13:20> > > > 82> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > JUP> > 116:06:40> > > > > > 83> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SAT> > 117:53:20> > > > > > > > > > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive

occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbirth around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that

the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > > > > > > Sir, > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should

take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > Capricorn 24-06-40> > Aquarius 6-40-00> > Pisces 1-20-00> > Pisces 12-53-20> > Pisces 24-06-40> > Aries 5-33-20> > Aries 18-06-40> > Aries 29-13-20> > Taurus 11-53-20> > Taurus 24-06-40> > Gemini 6-40-00> > Cancer 1-20-00> > Cancer 24-06-40> > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule.> >

Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> > Senthil athi_ram >> > @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro

ups.com> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --> > Senthil athi_ram >> > mssumich mssumich >> > Cc: @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > Re: BTR Theory> > >

> > > Dear MS.> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics.> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009 = 353,015 births > > =14708.95833 per hour> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich

mssumich > wrote:> > > > > > mssumich mssumich >> > BTR Theory> > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > Thanks> > MS> > > > > > > > > > Dear TinWin,> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > > With the simple logical

calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Goelji,

Out of a,b,c,and d; how many should be positive, any one or more than one or all? Should we consider Moon Star or Moon Sign or both? Kindly clerify.

Dr. Rath

 

 

 

vijay.goel <goyalvj Sent: Fri, November 13, 2009 7:54:24 PM Re: BTR Theory

Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book "Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II" (M/s. Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :In his own words: "If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or wrong, the method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or the Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth Star will be more correct." a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent. I) 'X' could be moon's star.This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star. [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet 'Y', II) 'Y' could be moon's starIII) Y's sub could be moon's star (Take this planet as 'Z' )]c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level, which will be the Birth Star. i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then SubSub(Anthara) -and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama). This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star. [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that sub sub (SS) is not taken here.]d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a Star–Sub–SubSub– SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS), which should tell the Birth Star.[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the moon's star.]A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth (boopadhana) , Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone.As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four levels as explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the Birth

Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to Sookshama level at times." Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose other factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and probabilites ratio will increase.Thankyou,Regards,Vijay GoelJaipur.@gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Senthil,>                  The objective is to confirm the correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct...>

                 As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...>                   BTR is as simple as that...>                  Yogesh Lajmi.  > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj wrote:> > > vijay.goel goyalvj Re: BTR Theory> @gro ups.com> Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM> > >  > > > > > > Dear Senthil ji,> > I am adding few more

verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :> > Rule 3:> If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P. method).... > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."> > Rule 4 :> > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given TOB...> The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of the IXth cusp...> Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul> Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth> Ven - is chief significator of Kama> Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...>

> ************ ***> > Thankyou,> > Best Wishes,> Vijay Goel> Jaipur.> > --- > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:> >> > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,> >  > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time being. We will talk about one RULE first.> >  > > RULE:1> > *********> > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,> >  > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord> >  > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values up to Seconds)> >  > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with 35 AA charts and proved

that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More FAILURE results noticed).> >  > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE? As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points) about this RULE alone.> >  > >  > > RULE:2> > *********> > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======> > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses I,V & IX will be ruling the

Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth Chart...and so on...> > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= = > >  > > Reply:> > ====> > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE. Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many of them neither faced it nor remembers it.> >  > > Other RULES> > =========> > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.> >  > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be so much angry on me

let me absorb / accept all your firing, angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.> >  > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s review comments.> >  > > GOOD LUCK!> >  > > D.Senthil> >  > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Cc: "Senthil" athi_ram@ .>> > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > >

> > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> >                   You seem to be "at it" again...> >                   Why are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your point ?> >

                 You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched" -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..> >                  As said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to Ms.Sujata Das...> >

                  On this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly as per D/B/A/S ...? ! > >                  I have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub level...> >

                 With best wishes,> >                  Yogesh Lajmi. > >

                                            GOOD LUCK !> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:> > > > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Cc: rathluther > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > >

> > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> >  > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below.> >  > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > Hr.No. > > > > > > RASI> > > > > > Sgn> > > > > > Str> > > > > > Sub> > > > > > Degree> > > > Diff.> > > > > > 1> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET>

> > > KET> > > > 000:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 2> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > VEN> > > > 000:46:40> > > >  > > > > > > 3> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > SUN> > > > 003:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 4> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > MOO> > > > 003:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 5> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > >

KET> > > > MAR> > > > 004:46:40> > > >  > > > > > > 6> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > RAH> > > > 005:33:20> > > > 011:26:40> > > > > > 7> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > JUP> > > > 007:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 8> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > SAT> > > > 009:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 9> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> >

> > KET> > > > MER> > > > 011:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 10> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > VEN> > > > 013:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 11> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > 015:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 12> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > 016:13:20> > > >  > > > > > > 13> > > > RA1> > > >

MAR> > > > VEN> > > > MAR> > > > 017:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 14> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > RAH> > > > 018:06:40> > > > 012:33:20> > > > > > 15> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > JUP> > > > 020:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 16> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > SAT> > > > 021:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 17> > > > RA1> >

> > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > MER> > > > 024:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 18> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > KET> > > > 025:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 19> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > SUN> > > > 026:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 20> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > MOO> > > > 027:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 21> > > >

RA1> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > MAR> > > > 028:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 22> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > RAH> > > > 029:13:20> > > > 011:06:40> > > > > > 23> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > RAH> > > > 030:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 24> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > JUP> > > > 031:13:20> > > >  > > > > > > 25> >

> > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > SAT> > > > 033:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 26> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > MER> > > > 035:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 27> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > KET> > > > 037:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 28> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > VEN> > > > 037:46:40> > > >  > > > > > >

29> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > MOO> > > > 040:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 30> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > MAR> > > > 041:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 31> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > RAH> > > > 041:53:20> > > > 011:53:20> > > > > > 32> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > JUP> > > > 043:53:20> > > >  > > > >

> > 33> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > 045:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 34> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > 047:46:40> > > >  > > > > > > 35> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > KET> > > > 049:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 36> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > VEN> > > > 050:26:40> > > >  >

> > > > > 37> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > SUN> > > > 052:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 38> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MAR> > > > MAR> > > > 053:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 39> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MAR> > > > RAH> > > > 054:06:40> > > > 012:13:20> > > > > > 40> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MAR> > > > JUP> > > > 056:06:40> > > >

 > > > > > > 41> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MAR> > > > SAT> > > > 057:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 42> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > MER> > > > 060:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 43> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > 061:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 44> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > 062:40:00>

> > >  > > > > > > 45> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > 064:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 46> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > MOO> > > > 065:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 47> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > RAH> > > > 066:40:00> > > > 012:33:20> > > > > > 48> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > JUP> > > >

068:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 49> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > SAT> > > > 070:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 50> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > MER> > > > 072:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 51> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > KET> > > > 074:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 52> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > VEN>

> > > 075:13:20> > > >  > > > > > > 53> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > SUN> > > > 077:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 54> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > MOO> > > > 078:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 55> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > MAR> > > > 079:13:20> > > >  > > > > > > 56> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > >

> JUP> > > > 080:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 57> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > SAT> > > > 081:46:40> > > >  > > > > > > 58> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > MER> > > > 083:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 59> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > KET> > > > 085:46:40> > > >  > > > > > > 60> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > >

JUP> > > > VEN> > > > 086:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 61> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > SUN> > > > 088:46:40> > > >  > > > > > > 62> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > MOO> > > > 089:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 63> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > JUP> > > > MOO> > > > 090:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 64> > > > RA4> > > > MOO>

> > > JUP> > > > MAR> > > > 090:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 65> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > JUP> > > > RAH> > > > 091:20:00> > > > 024:40:00> > > > > > 66> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > SAT> > > > 093:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 67> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > MER> > > > 095:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 68> > > > RA4> > > >

MOO> > > > SAT> > > > KET> > > > 097:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 69> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > VEN> > > > 098:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 70> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > SUN> > > > 100:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 71> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > MOO> > > > 101:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 72> > > > RA4>

> > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > MAR> > > > 102:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 73> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > RAH> > > > 102:53:20> > > > 011:33:20> > > > > > 74> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > JUP> > > > 104:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 75> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > MER> > > > 106:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 76> > > >

RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > KET> > > > 108:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 77> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > VEN> > > > 109:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 78> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > SUN> > > > 111:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 79> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > MOO> > > > 112:13:20> > > >  > > > > > > 80>

> > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > 113:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 81> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > 114:06:40> > > > 011:13:20> > > > > > 82> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > 116:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 83> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > SAT> > > > 117:53:20> > > >  > >  > >

 > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> >  > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> >  > >

Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> >  > > GOOD LUCK!> >  > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34

PM> > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Sir, > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > Capricorn 24-06-40> > Aquarius    6-40-00> > Pisces        1-20-00> >

Pisces      12-53-20> > Pisces      24-06-40> > Aries         5-33-20> > Aries       18-06-40> > Aries      29-13-20> > Taurus     11-53-20> > Taurus     24-06-40> > Gemini       6-40-00> >

Cancer      1-20-00> > Cancer     24-06-40> > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >  > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> >  > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > > > GOOD LUCK!> >  > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may

not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > mssumich mssumich >> > Cc: @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > Re: BTR Theory> > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear MS.> >  > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics.> >  > >

http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> >  > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births > >                                                =14708.95833 per hour> >

                                               = 245.1493056 per minute> >

                                               = 4.085821759 per second.> >  > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant)

are in same sign within 3degree orb.> >  > > Hope the above gives the required information.> >  > > GOOD LUCK!> >  > > D.Senthil> >  > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > > > > mssumich mssumich >> > BTR Theory> > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me

know.> > Thanks> > MS> > > > > > > > > > Dear TinWin,> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > >

D.Senthil> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sir,

1. Who is Astrological father?

2. Who is Biological father?

3. Who is Adopt father?

Kindly clerify which father does the 9th cusp of the horoscope of the child signify.

Dr. Rath

 

 

 

sujat karambelkar <sujatkaram Sent: Fri, November 13, 2009 11:04:38 PM Re: BTR Theory

 

 

 

 

 

R/Members,

We are discussing a horoscope of a Child, isn,t it? So the 9th house will reflect astrological father of the child, and that,s what we need. So ," Only the mother knows.------ -------" theory should not be applied here.

regards,

sk

 

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