Guest guest Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Dear Moderator, I have just received “Astro Secrets & K,P.Padhati Volume IV recently released by Mr.K.Subramanian, Son of late Guruji, solely on Rectification of Birth Time. We may initiate discussion on it, after studying it.. I have not studied yet this Book, as it was received by me just few hours before. Thanks & Regards, K.S.V.Ramani On Behalf Of K. P. Naidu 09 November 2009 22:10 Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear Friends, Better not to allow any further discussion on BTR henceforth. Everytime the discussion on BTR generates unnecessary heat and slinging mud on each other, losing patience etc.. It never ends in fruitful conclusion. Everyone follows what he thinks correct to himself. Several rules/methods of BTR are followed by KP followers. Every method/rule of BTR claims 80% and more success rate. KP followers follow KP because they think KP is the correct method. Similarly Vedic/traditional astrologers. Similarly western astrologers. Jesus is the only God for christians, Mohammed is the the only God for muslims, Similarly Hindus. All religions are exisitng, all systems of astrology are existing. Which God is correct ? which astrology system is correct ? Which BTR rule is correct ? It is futulie and foolish exercise. KP is the not the end of astrology. KP was there even before Guruji KSK, but Guruji only could recognise and evolved it. Laws of motion were there even before Newton. Microorganisms were existing even Microscope was invented. Coming generation may follow different/new system of astrology to be developed by some X in future. So it is foolishness to say what we know and practice is the only correct and true and all others are wrong, incorrect and unture. Have a rationale approach. Have not partisan attitude. Be broadminded. Be patient. Listen to everyone, analyse what is said, test it yourself, accept what you find correct and true and good. SURVIVAL IS THE FITTEST. Time will decide. We are in pursuit of TRUTH. Thanks, Naidu KP K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road, Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591. --- On Mon, 9/11/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi > wrote: Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi > Re: Re: BTR Theory " Senthil " <athi_ram > Cc: Monday, 9 November, 2009, 10:35 AM Dear Senthil, When you visit a Temple/Church/ Synagogue/ Masjid isn't the objective to pray and try to realise God/Almighty ? It surely is not to verify whether God exists or not ? The approach to a problem is the decisive factor...for example a person of the thinking of for example, Prof.Narlikar, probably might,if at, all he visits a temple,his objective could most probably be, only to prove that God just not exist, and that it is simply a product of the fertile imagination of a species of animals called humans...! So Senthil,it depends on one's approach to a solution to a problem... It has been the experience of almost everyone who approaches a Govt. Officer seeking a solution to some problem...his approach is almost always... " ...how the thing cannot be done... " , and to this end he will quote the rule-book to back him up...whereas, if one approaches a Private Co. /Agency...most of the time the problem has the simplest solution,which they will only be too glad to offer you... This is the bureucratic attitude we have inherited from the British,and keep clinging to it...as it allows them to wield tremendous Power-of-Patronage over India's innocent/uneducated /poverty- ridden masses... Even today we find that our Managerial cadre,particularly the IAS...function more often than not,as Super-Head-Clerks. ..that is the bane of our Govt.'s thinking...In the last sixty years or so the major obstacle to speedy and systematic progress has been almost always stymied by our Super-Head-Clerks. ...cadre.. .or the IAS ! The above was only to illustrate what a difference in approach can help do... ! ! Never mind...if you still want to go on justifying the unjustifiable. ..it is your business...As for me,I have been practising the theory ,with my modification, since the last so many years and quite successfully too... Any ways...pl. follow what you think is correct according to your thinking... It hardly matters to me...as I will follow what has given me, over the years, extremely good results...surpassin g my own expectations. .. I do not wish to spend any more time on this futile discussion any more... SUBJECT CLOSED. ! Yogesh Lajmi --- On Mon, 11/9/09, Senthil <athi_ram > wrote: Senthil <athi_ram > Re: Re: BTR Theory @gro ups.com Cc: yogeshlajmi@ Monday, November 9, 2009, 12:18 AM Dear Yogesh Lajmi, Sorry to say that the objective is to confirm the correctness of the RULEs followed for RBT. Especially the RULE mentioned by, Birth Ascendant SUB lord = Birth MOON Star lord Birth Ascendant SUB-SUB lord = Birth MOON SUB lord (for more closer results) If there is no logic in the RULE then there is no point is strict to the RULE and it must be REJECTED. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Sun, 11/8/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote: Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > Re: Re: BTR Theory @gro ups.com Cc: " Senthil " <athi_ram > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 6:37 AM Dear Senthil, The objective is to confirm the correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct... As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used... BTR is as simple as that... Yogesh Lajmi. --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> Re: BTR Theory @gro ups.com Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM Dear Senthil ji, I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously : Rule 3: If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P. method)... Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : " If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a female sign,then the chart is of a female child... " Rule 4 : There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given TOB... The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of the IXth cusp... Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth Ven - is chief significator of Kama Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am not satisfied completely,I use this method finally... ************ *** Thankyou, Best Wishes, Vijay Goel Jaipur. --- In @gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@.. .> wrote: > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi, >  > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time being. We will talk about one RULE first. >  > RULE:1 > ********* > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) , >  > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord >  > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values up to Seconds) >  > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More FAILURE results noticed). >  > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE? As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points) about this RULE alone. >  >  > RULE:2 > ********* > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ====== > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth Chart...and so on... > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= = >  > Reply: > ==== > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE. Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many of them neither faced it nor remembers it. >  > Other RULES > ========= > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules. >  > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing, angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members. >  > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s review comments. >  > GOOD LUCK! >  > D.Senthil >  > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote: > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> > Re: Re: BTR Theory > @gro ups.com > Cc: " Senthil " <athi_ram@.. .> > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM > > >  > > > > > > > > > Dear Senthil, >                   You seem to be " at it " again... >                   Why are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your point ? >                  You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well- " researched " -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ... >                  As said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to Ms.Sujata Das... >                   On this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly as per D/B/A/S ...? ! >                  I have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub level... >                  With best wishes, >                  Yogesh Lajmi. >                                             GOOD LUCK ! > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil <athi_ram > wrote: > > > Senthil <athi_ram > > Re: Re: BTR Theory > @gro ups.com > Cc: rathluther > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM > > >  > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath, >  > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below. >  >  > > > > > > Hr.No. > > > RASI > > > Sgn > > > Str > > > Sub > > > Degree > > Diff. > > > 1 > > RA1 > > MAR > > KET > > KET > > 000:00:00 > >  > > > 2 > > RA1 > > MAR > > KET > > VEN > > 000:46:40 > >  > > > 3 > > RA1 > > MAR > > KET > > SUN > > 003:00:00 > >  > > > 4 > > RA1 > > MAR > > KET > > MOO > > 003:40:00 > >  > > > 5 > > RA1 > > MAR > > KET > > MAR > > 004:46:40 > >  > > > 6 > > RA1 > > MAR > > KET > > RAH > > 005:33:20 > > 011:26:40 > > > 7 > > RA1 > > MAR > > KET > > JUP > > 007:33:20 > >  > > > 8 > > RA1 > > MAR > > KET > > SAT > > 009:20:00 > >  > > > 9 > > RA1 > > MAR > > KET > > MER > > 011:26:40 > >  > > > 10 > > RA1 > > MAR > > VEN > > VEN > > 013:20:00 > >  > > > 11 > > RA1 > > MAR > > VEN > > SUN > > 015:33:20 > >  > > > 12 > > RA1 > > MAR > > VEN > > MOO > > 016:13:20 > >  > > > 13 > > RA1 > > MAR > > VEN > > MAR > > 017:20:00 > >  > > > 14 > > RA1 > > MAR > > VEN > > RAH > > 018:06:40 > > 012:33:20 > > > 15 > > RA1 > > MAR > > VEN > > JUP > > 020:06:40 > >  > > > 16 > > RA1 > > MAR > > VEN > > SAT > > 021:53:20 > >  > > > 17 > > RA1 > > MAR > > VEN > > MER > > 024:00:00 > >  > > > 18 > > RA1 > > MAR > > VEN > > KET > > 025:53:20 > >  > > > 19 > > RA1 > > MAR > > SUN > > SUN > > 026:40:00 > >  > > > 20 > > RA1 > > MAR > > SUN > > MOO > > 027:20:00 > >  > > > 21 > > RA1 > > MAR > > SUN > > MAR > > 028:26:40 > >  > > > 22 > > RA1 > > MAR > > SUN > > RAH > > 029:13:20 > > 011:06:40 > > > 23 > > RA2 > > VEN > > SUN > > RAH > > 030:00:00 > >  > > > 24 > > RA2 > > VEN > > SUN > > JUP > > 031:13:20 > >  > > > 25 > > RA2 > > VEN > > SUN > > SAT > > 033:00:00 > >  > > > 26 > > RA2 > > VEN > > SUN > > MER > > 035:06:40 > >  > > > 27 > > RA2 > > VEN > > SUN > > KET > > 037:00:00 > >  > > > 28 > > RA2 > > VEN > > SUN > > VEN > > 037:46:40 > >  > > > 29 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MOO > > MOO > > 040:00:00 > >  > > > 30 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MOO > > MAR > > 041:06:40 > >  > > > 31 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MOO > > RAH > > 041:53:20 > > 011:53:20 > > > 32 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MOO > > JUP > > 043:53:20 > >  > > > 33 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MOO > > SAT > > 045:40:00 > >  > > > 34 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MOO > > MER > > 047:46:40 > >  > > > 35 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MOO > > KET > > 049:40:00 > >  > > > 36 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MOO > > VEN > > 050:26:40 > >  > > > 37 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MOO > > SUN > > 052:40:00 > >  > > > 38 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MAR > > MAR > > 053:20:00 > >  > > > 39 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MAR > > RAH > > 054:06:40 > > 012:13:20 > > > 40 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MAR > > JUP > > 056:06:40 > >  > > > 41 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MAR > > SAT > > 057:53:20 > >  > > > 42 > > RA3 > > MER > > MAR > > MER > > 060:00:00 > >  > > > 43 > > RA3 > > MER > > MAR > > KET > > 061:53:20 > >  > > > 44 > > RA3 > > MER > > MAR > > VEN > > 062:40:00 > >  > > > 45 > > RA3 > > MER > > MAR > > SUN > > 064:53:20 > >  > > > 46 > > RA3 > > MER > > MAR > > MOO > > 065:33:20 > >  > > > 47 > > RA3 > > MER > > RAH > > RAH > > 066:40:00 > > 012:33:20 > > > 48 > > RA3 > > MER > > RAH > > JUP > > 068:40:00 > >  > > > 49 > > RA3 > > MER > > RAH > > SAT > > 070:26:40 > >  > > > 50 > > RA3 > > MER > > RAH > > MER > > 072:33:20 > >  > > > 51 > > RA3 > > MER > > RAH > > KET > > 074:26:40 > >  > > > 52 > > RA3 > > MER > > RAH > > VEN > > 075:13:20 > >  > > > 53 > > RA3 > > MER > > RAH > > SUN > > 077:26:40 > >  > > > 54 > > RA3 > > MER > > RAH > > MOO > > 078:06:40 > >  > > > 55 > > RA3 > > MER > > RAH > > MAR > > 079:13:20 > >  > > > 56 > > RA3 > > MER > > JUP > > JUP > > 080:00:00 > >  > > > 57 > > RA3 > > MER > > JUP > > SAT > > 081:46:40 > >  > > > 58 > > RA3 > > MER > > JUP > > MER > > 083:53:20 > >  > > > 59 > > RA3 > > MER > > JUP > > KET > > 085:46:40 > >  > > > 60 > > RA3 > > MER > > JUP > > VEN > > 086:33:20 > >  > > > 61 > > RA3 > > MER > > JUP > > SUN > > 088:46:40 > >  > > > 62 > > RA3 > > MER > > JUP > > MOO > > 089:26:40 > >  > > > 63 > > RA4 > > MOO > > JUP > > MOO > > 090:00:00 > >  > > > 64 > > RA4 > > MOO > > JUP > > MAR > > 090:33:20 > >  > > > 65 > > RA4 > > MOO > > JUP > > RAH > > 091:20:00 > > 024:40:00 > > > 66 > > RA4 > > MOO > > SAT > > SAT > > 093:20:00 > >  > > > 67 > > RA4 > > MOO > > SAT > > MER > > 095:26:40 > >  > > > 68 > > RA4 > > MOO > > SAT > > KET > > 097:20:00 > >  > > > 69 > > RA4 > > MOO > > SAT > > VEN > > 098:06:40 > >  > > > 70 > > RA4 > > MOO > > SAT > > SUN > > 100:20:00 > >  > > > 71 > > RA4 > > MOO > > SAT > > MOO > > 101:00:00 > >  > > > 72 > > RA4 > > MOO > > SAT > > MAR > > 102:06:40 > >  > > > 73 > > RA4 > > MOO > > SAT > > RAH > > 102:53:20 > > 011:33:20 > > > 74 > > RA4 > > MOO > > SAT > > JUP > > 104:53:20 > >  > > > 75 > > RA4 > > MOO > > MER > > MER > > 106:40:00 > >  > > > 76 > > RA4 > > MOO > > MER > > KET > > 108:33:20 > >  > > > 77 > > RA4 > > MOO > > MER > > VEN > > 109:20:00 > >  > > > 78 > > RA4 > > MOO > > MER > > SUN > > 111:33:20 > >  > > > 79 > > RA4 > > MOO > > MER > > MOO > > 112:13:20 > >  > > > 80 > > RA4 > > MOO > > MER > > MAR > > 113:20:00 > >  > > > 81 > > RA4 > > MOO > > MER > > RAH > > 114:06:40 > > 011:13:20 > > > 82 > > RA4 > > MOO > > MER > > JUP > > 116:06:40 > >  > > > 83 > > RA4 > > MOO > > MER > > SAT > > 117:53:20 > >  >  >  > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg). >  > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only. >  > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!! >  > GOOD LUCK! >  > D.Senthil > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote: > > > Luther Rath <rathluther> > Re: Re: BTR Theory > @gro ups.com > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM > > >  > > > > Sir, > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises. > The next delevery times shall be as follows :- > Capricorn 24-06-40 > Aquarius    6-40-00 > Pisces        1-20-00 > Pisces      12-53-20 > Pisces      24-06-40 > Aries         5-33-20 > Aries       18-06-40 > Aries      29-13-20 > Taurus     11-53-20 > Taurus     24-06-40 > Gemini       6-40-00 > Cancer      1-20-00 > Cancer     24-06-40 > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule. > Dr. Rath > > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram > > @gro ups.com > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM > Re: Re: BTR Theory > >  > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath, >  > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > GOOD LUCK! >  > D.Senthil > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote: > > > Luther Rath <rathluther> > Re: Re: BTR Theory > @gro ups.com > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM > > >  > > > > Dear Senthil, > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR. > Dr. Rath > > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram > > mssumich <mssumich > > Cc: @gro ups.com > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM > Re: BTR Theory > >  > > > > > > > Dear MS. >  > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics. >  > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html >  > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births >                                                =14708.95833 per hour >                                                = 245.1493056 per minute >                                                = 4.085821759 per second. >  > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb. >  > Hope the above gives the required information. >  > GOOD LUCK! >  > D.Senthil >  > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich <mssumich > wrote: > > > mssumich <mssumich > > BTR Theory > " Senthil " <athi_ram > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM > > > Dear Shri Senthil > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear. > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know. > Thanks > MS > > > > > Dear TinWin, > > Please see the message ID No.28959. > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959 > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb. > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same. > > GOOD LUCK! > > D.Senthil > India has a new look. Take a sneak peek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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