What is the correct birth time?

[Guest guest]

Dear Suprakash ji,

 

AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you want to do it?

 

Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your suggestions incorporated.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghosh wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Punit ji

 

Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the basic conditions assumed during the test.

Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts  been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction.Was all the charts analysed in this way?

 

If not, then the test has no relevance.

 

Regards

 

Suprakash

 

 

 

 

-

Punit Pandey

 

Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM

Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

Dear Suresh ji,

 

Please see your post (/message/30047). I quote -

 

1. " In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical. "

2. " Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel. "

3. " When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising. "

 

Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method " most often "  and the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is the reason I say that we should not " blindly " follow even Stalwarts. Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them " blindly " which also means following incorrect methods.

 

What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_suresh wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear Punitji,I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji,s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post.

Suresh Hattangadi

[Guest guest]

Dear Subhash ji,

 

The point you are making is important, but is not directly related to the point that I am making. My concern is at much higher level. My concern is how to verify currently available methods. Everyone seems to be suggesting one method or other and we need some way to verify the method. The point I am making is just because some stalwart suggested some method, doesn't mean that we should accept it blindly. I am not condemning anything, but in favor of verification instead of blindly following.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Punit ji,

 

you mentioned 

//Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method " most often "  and the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is the reason I say that we should not " blindly " follow even Stalwarts. Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them " blindly " which also means following incorrect methods.//

 

I am not using BTR method advocated and used by Mr. Lajmi ji......I use my own method. However I have mentioned on this platform, time and again, that I do not  agree to the conclusions of  study disproving Lajmi ji's method for the reasons already given. There was not a single rejoinder to it from any of the members, including you. In this connection please refer file " Latest technique Vs Traditional technique " uploaded by me. Can you or any member put forth convincing reasons for vast difference in conclusions? I will be obliged. Or do you advice me to " blindly follow " the statistics?

 

Let me make it clear once again that I am not advocating any BTR method.............but cannot condemn any method based on such illogical analysis. Your views will be highly appreciated.  I am ready to accept my mistake, if any.

 

Regards

Subhash Ektare

 

 

 

 

 

Punit Pandey <punitp

Thu, December 17, 2009 9:26:07 PM Re: What is the correct birth time? 

 

Dear Suresh ji,

 

 

Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -

 

1. " In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical. "

2. " Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel. "

3. " When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising. "

 

Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method " most often "  and the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is the reason I say that we should not " blindly " follow even Stalwarts. Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them " blindly " which also means following incorrect methods.

 

What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_suresh@ > wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear Punitji,I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post.

Suresh Hattangadi

[Guest guest]

Dear Lajmi ji,

 

I have repeated it many times and now saying it the last time. We are working with the assumption that the recorded time, if not exact, is close enough to the actual time, whatever way we define that actual time. The method that hits consistently close to the recorded time gives good indication of accuracy of the method.

 

Allow us to conduct this exercise first and then you can raise questions. The current behavior of discouraging studies and diverting attention is not conductive for learning and not accepted.

 

Though, as mentioned in another email, if you have a better suggestion for birth time verification (not rectification), I am more than willing to listen it.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Mr.Naidu,

                        Isn't there a difference between " clinical death and physical death " ?

                        Similarly, is there a difference between " clinically alive " and " physically alive " ...?

                        Does K.P., define these ? Or Traditional Astrology differentiate these ? Or any other System of Astrology define them ?

                       These questions do not seem to have been addressed by anybody,including Punit....

                       Can any one throw some light on this issue...let us be clear on this issue,before we proceed to redefine " Correct TOB " ...

                       Will Punit like to enlighten us all, on this subject... ?

                       I hope we get some revealing/enlightening replies,in order to be very clear...on subjects like Births and Deaths...

                       With a lot of hope and expectations...

                       Yogesh Lajmi

                                               GOOD LUCK !

 

 

 

K. P. Naidu <konathalan

Sent: Thu, 17 December, 2009 11:57:17 AM Re: What is the correct birth time? 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Members,various methods of RBT are discussed by KP followers in this forum.  How to verify the so called  exact birth time as arrived by any of these RBT, is not discussed much. How to prove the exactness/truth of such a  Birth Time ?  Is it the actual time of 1st breath of the child - God only knows..

A Birth Time which satisfies all the life events of the native, as per KP rules,  I think, can be taken as correct Birth Time, whether such a Birth time satisfy the rules/equation of any RBT or not.  Further, predictions made on such a Birth Time, as per KP rules, if come true and successful, such a Birth Time can be accepted as correct/exact Birth Time.

Naidu KP K. P. Naidu,Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta,VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.--- On Thu, 17/12/09, Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.com Thursday, 17 December, 2009, 10:56 AM

 

 

Dear Suresh ji,

 

Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and that is the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind following, Shri KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work 'consistently' . Instead of blind following, we should verify what works well and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.

 

Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written. Which method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not practicable and logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should follow only one " stalwart " and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see the file section and you will find that the most promoted method by Lajmi ji (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected by a study. We should not close our eyes and blindly follow anything, it is what I think.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_suresh@ > wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear Punitji,Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP followers more.In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort should be instead on finding out if this particular method suggested and advocated by Lajmiji does give correct results and research if any should be on this line.

Suresh Hattangadi

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Members,

 

See also the Message ID:

 

/message/9596

Please note that the topic & the inside content may differ. This message has topic "Help" but inside discussion about RBT Rule (Asc Sub = Moon Star Rule) is presented. For about 50-60 replies are available with all backup calculation etc.The above link is just middle of the message topic members should go through by clicking "Next Message" link to follow all the replies.

 

GOOD LUCK!

 

D.Senthil

 

--- On Fri, 12/18/09, TW <tw853 wrote:

TW <tw853 Re: What is the correct birth time? Date: Friday, December 18, 2009, 10:38 AM

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 2986?threaded= 1 & l=1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 16092?threaded= 1 & l=1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 16098http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 15673?threaded= 1 & l=1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22262?threaded= 1 & l=1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20847?threaded= 1 & l=1Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.doc (File section)Explanation of the Test Resultshttp://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30032?threaded= 1 & l=1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 1686?threaded= 1 & l=1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 17762?threaded= 1 & l=1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20462?threaded= 1 & l=1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20468http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22054?threaded= 1 & l=1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 18385?threaded= 1 & l=1Child Sex Study.doc (File section)Child Gender Prediction Analysis@gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Suresh ji,> > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047).> I quote -> > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as> well as logical."> 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the> wheel."> 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited> and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research> on the subject is surprising."> > *Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and the study> found that the method doesn't work.* Please see the file section and you can>

get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study found is> just opposite. The method doesn't work. *That is the reason I say that we> should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.* Your opinion (point no. 3> above) is just opposite and you recommend following them "blindly" which> also means following incorrect methods.> > *What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of> available methods.* People who are marketing their methods for a long time,> now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may not> be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of KP.> Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating in it, I> wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum loose> focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must participate in> it

and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we will know which> methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@.. .> wrote:> > >> >> > Dear Punitji,> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not read> > full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But> > again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years> > experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his> > experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be> > conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently> > by different people as will be evident if you have read

subsequent post.> > Suresh Hattangadi> >> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Dear sirs,Death is the last breath and Birth is the first Breath.First breath happens when? May Dr. Luther or Dr. Sheetal can throw some light on this.If it is only when the baby cries, some times, the baby does not cry immediately even after the separation from the mother.

Sometimes the baby cries even before the separation.Or can we take as the time when the chord is cut and the link is disconnected?This is one question.Another is the time difference between the clock of the operation theratre or the doctors or the husband accompanying his wife and also the difference between the said time and the Indian standard time.

Hence there are lot of chances for errors to happen.RegardsAdithOn Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Punit,

                 The entire discussion which seems to have developed into an argument,sadly, arose on          :   " Whether the  correct TOB is the Time of the First breath of a newborn... "

                 The commonsense answer to this simple question is when it begins to breathe,and live on its own(we normally say a person is dead when he ceases to breathe,he ceases to live),but several people began to give/add several  different parameters to consider the Correct TOB...which you,in my opinion,in the name of  " research " (needlessly) encouraged...and poor Mr.VGR Pavan submitted a protocol/suggestion,to which you agreed immediately,in my considered opinion,in too much of a hurry...That started the discussion in full swing,one thing leading to another... and that has brought us to this stage now...Isn't it ?

                  This was,to put the record straight...

                  Yogesh Lajmi.

                                             GOOD LUCK !

 

 

 

Punit Pandey <punitp

Fri, 18 December, 2009 10:25:14 AMRe: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

Dear Lajmi ji,

 

See my response to you to your another post - http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30095. I pointed out connection between RP and Varahamihira's Nashta Jatakam in year 2003 (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 254) in this forum itself. Now tell me, who is ignorant?

 

Please read my mail and you will find that I didn't say that method suggested by you is not practicable. It is said by Suresh ji that other methods were not practicable and hence I wanted to understand why so. I think Suresh ji is better person to answer your question of practicable as these are his thoughts.

 

I would request you to stop such baseless talks and focus on the subject. I do not have any " angst " against anybody. I kept repeating - for me, all KP authors are same and I believe in verification. Whether it is Great Varahamihira or Sage Parahshar or Shri KSK or Shri KSK's soon, I don't follow anybody blindly and it is what Shri KSK has taught us. Your attempt to make people follow KSK's sons blindly is simply against Shri KSK's teachings. You can not and you should not force other people to believe what you believe. You are not a PR agency or publicity agency for a person or a publication and you should not behave like that. We are not here to sell products or promote something, but for KP study, research and development and we should focus on that.

 

I would not have even approved your emails as those are unnecessarily disturbing nature. We are doing one important BTR methods verification process and your emails are diverting attention from the core subject. Your emails are approved just because I myself was the target of your attack and I thought I must answer all your questions in the forum so that everyone knows about it. But we will all agree that it is sheer waste of our time and forum's time.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Punit,

                Exactly which method suggested by me is not practicable, according to you...

                I have already,a few minutes ago,written to you exposing your ignorance about what Varaha Mihira has exactly said about " how to erect Birth Chart of unknown TOB... "

               Without being harsh,I must point out that the sooner you realise that there is a whole lot more to Astrology,both Traditional as well as K.P System., than you think you know... the better it will be for ALL of US....!

               With best wishes,

               Yogesh Lajmi.

                                             GOOD LUCK !

             

 

 

 

 

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com

Thu, 17 December, 2009 10:56:49 AMRe: What is the correct birth time? 

 

 

 

Dear Suresh ji,

 

 

Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and that is the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind following, Shri KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work 'consistently'.. Instead of blind following, we should verify what works well and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.

 

Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written. Which method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not practicable and logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should follow only one " stalwart " and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see the file section and you will find that the most promoted method by Lajmi ji (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected by a study. We should not close our eyes and blindly follow anything, it is what I think.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_suresh@ > wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear Punitji,Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP followers more..In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort should be instead on finding out if this particular method suggested and advocated by Lajmiji does give correct results and research if any should be on this line.

Suresh Hattangadi

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Adith,

The correct TOB is at the Time of the first breath...whenever the child takes it...the example you have cited is uncommon and rare....

With best wishes,

Yogesh Lajmi.

GOOD LUCK !

 

 

 

adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath Sent: Sun, 20 December, 2009 6:14:06 PMRe: What is the correct birth time?

Dear sirs,Death is the last breath and Birth is the first Breath.First breath happens when? May Dr. Luther or Dr. Sheetal can throw some light on this.If it is only when the baby cries, some times, the baby does not cry immediately even after the separation from the mother.Sometimes the baby cries even before the separation.Or can we take as the time when the chord is cut and the link is disconnected?This is one question.Another is the time difference between the clock of the operation theratre or the doctors or the husband accompanying his wife and also the difference between the said time and the Indian standard time. Hence there are lot of chances for errors to happen.RegardsAdith

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Punit,

The entire discussion which seems to have developed into an argument,sadly, arose on : " Whether the correct TOB is the Time of the First breath of a newborn..."

The commonsense answer to this simple question is when it begins to breathe,and live on its own(we normally say a person is dead when he ceases to breathe,he ceases to live),but several people began to give/add several different parameters to consider the Correct TOB...which you,in my opinion,in the name of "research" (needlessly) encouraged.. .and poor Mr.VGR Pavan submitted a protocol/suggestion ,to which you agreed immediately, in my considered opinion,in too much of a hurry...That started the discussion in full swing,one thing leading to another... and that has brought us to this stage now...Isn't it ?

This was,to put the record straight...

Yogesh Lajmi.

GOOD LUCK !

 

 

 

 

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.comFri, 18 December, 2009 10:25:14 AM

Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

Dear Lajmi ji,

 

 

See my response to you to your another post - http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30095. I pointed out connection between RP and Varahamihira's Nashta Jatakam in year 2003 (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 254) in this forum itself. Now tell me, who is ignorant?

 

Please read my mail and you will find that I didn't say that method suggested by you is not practicable. It is said by Suresh ji that other methods were not practicable and hence I wanted to understand why so. I think Suresh ji is better person to answer your question of practicable as these are his thoughts.

 

I would request you to stop such baseless talks and focus on the subject. I do not have any "angst" against anybody. I kept repeating - for me, all KP authors are same and I believe in verification. Whether it is Great Varahamihira or Sage Parahshar or Shri KSK or Shri KSK's soon, I don't follow anybody blindly and it is what Shri KSK has taught us. Your attempt to make people follow KSK's sons blindly is simply against Shri KSK's teachings. You can not and you should not force other people to believe what you believe. You are not a PR agency or publicity agency for a person or a publication and you should not behave like that. We are not here to sell products or promote something, but for KP study, research and development and we should focus on that.

 

I would not have even approved your emails as those are unnecessarily disturbing nature. We are doing one important BTR methods verification process and your emails are diverting attention from the core subject. Your emails are approved just because I myself was the target of your attack and I thought I must answer all your questions in the forum so that everyone knows about it. But we will all agree that it is sheer waste of our time and forum's time.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

 

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Punit,

Exactly which method suggested by me is not practicable, according to you...

I have already,a few minutes ago,written to you exposing your ignorance about what Varaha Mihira has exactly said about "how to erect Birth Chart of unknown TOB..."

Without being harsh,I must point out that the sooner you realise that there is a whole lot more to Astrology,both Traditional as well as K.P System., than you think you know.... the better it will be for ALL of US....!

With best wishes,

Yogesh Lajmi.

GOOD LUCK !

 

 

 

 

 

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com

Thu, 17 December, 2009 10:56:49 AMRe: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

Dear Suresh ji,

 

 

Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and that is the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind following, Shri KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work 'consistently'.. Instead of blind following, we should verify what works well and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.

 

Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written. Which method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not practicable and logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should follow only one "stalwart" and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see the file section and you will find that the most promoted method by Lajmi ji (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected by a study. We should not close our eyes and blindly follow anything, it is what I think.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_suresh@ > wrote:

 

 

 

Dear Punitji,Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP followers more..In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort should be instead on finding out if this particular method suggested and advocated by Lajmiji does give correct results and research if any should be on this line.Suresh Hattangadi

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Dr Rath & other Doctors, There are divergent thoughts on what constitutes a "correct" birth time,viewed purely from Doctor's point of view.In astrological parlance,there are various concepts/theories. Medical explanation of "Correct Birth Time" will provide a benchmark,to understand and clear misconceptions I request to consider normal births with its variations and abnormal procedures. Regards,

Satish.--- On Sun, 12/20/09, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:Punit Pandey <punitpRe: What is the correct birth time? Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 3:27 PM

 

 

Dear Lajmi ji,

 

I understand that you are not in agreement with what can be called as correct birth time and hence you question the verification process. I understand your disagreement. Now you tell me how to verify the method(s) you are suggesting? We need some way to verify so many BTR methods.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Punit,

The entire discussion which seems to have developed into an argument,sadly, arose on : " Whether the correct TOB is the Time of the First breath of a newborn..."

The commonsense answer to this simple question is when it begins to breathe,and live on its own(we normally say a person is dead when he ceases to breathe,he ceases to live),but several people began to give/add several different parameters to consider the Correct TOB...which you,in my opinion,in the name of "research" (needlessly) encouraged.. .and poor Mr.VGR Pavan submitted a protocol/suggestion ,to which you agreed immediately, in my considered opinion,in too much of a hurry...That started the discussion in full swing,one thing leading to another... and that has brought us to this stage now...Isn't it ?

This was,to put the record straight...

Yogesh Lajmi.

GOOD LUCK !

 

 

 

 

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com

Fri, 18 December, 2009 10:25:14 AM Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

Dear Lajmi ji,

 

 

See my response to you to your another post - http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30095. I pointed out connection between RP and Varahamihira's Nashta Jatakam in year 2003 (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 254) in this forum itself. Now tell me, who is ignorant?

 

Please read my mail and you will find that I didn't say that method suggested by you is not practicable. It is said by Suresh ji that other methods were not practicable and hence I wanted to understand why so. I think Suresh ji is better person to answer your question of practicable as these are his thoughts.

 

I would request you to stop such baseless talks and focus on the subject. I do not have any "angst" against anybody. I kept repeating - for me, all KP authors are same and I believe in verification. Whether it is Great Varahamihira or Sage Parahshar or Shri KSK or Shri KSK's soon, I don't follow anybody blindly and it is what Shri KSK has taught us. Your attempt to make people follow KSK's sons blindly is simply against Shri KSK's teachings. You can not and you should not force other people to believe what you believe. You are not a PR agency or publicity agency for a person or a publication and you should not behave like that. We are not here to sell products or promote something, but for KP study, research and development and we should focus on that.

 

I would not have even approved your emails as those are unnecessarily disturbing nature. We are doing one important BTR methods verification process and your emails are diverting attention from the core subject. Your emails are approved just because I myself was the target of your attack and I thought I must answer all your questions in the forum so that everyone knows about it. But we will all agree that it is sheer waste of our time and forum's time.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

 

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Punit,

Exactly which method suggested by me is not practicable, according to you...

I have already,a few minutes ago,written to you exposing your ignorance about what Varaha Mihira has exactly said about "how to erect Birth Chart of unknown TOB..."

Without being harsh,I must point out that the sooner you realise that there is a whole lot more to Astrology,both Traditional as well as K.P System., than you think you know... the better it will be for ALL of US....!

With best wishes,

Yogesh Lajmi.

GOOD LUCK !

 

 

 

 

 

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Thu, 17 December, 2009 10:56:49 AMRe: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

Dear Suresh ji,

 

 

Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and that is the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind following, Shri KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work 'consistently'.. Instead of blind following, we should verify what works well and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.

 

Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written. Which method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not practicable and logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should follow only one "stalwart" and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see the file section and you will find that the most promoted method by Lajmi ji (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected by a study. We should not close our eyes and blindly follow anything, it is what I think.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_suresh@ > wrote:

 

 

 

Dear Punitji,Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP followers more..In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort should be instead on finding out if this particular method suggested and advocated by Lajmiji does give correct results and research if any should be on this line.

Suresh Hattangadi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear friends.

 

Lets not waste time in such discussions which does not nehove for a

good KP Astrologer.

 

The Birth time is exactly when the support system from mother is removed

and the child begins to live on its own. This can only happen when the child

begins to breathe on its own. This does not necessarily imply that the child

will cry with its first breath. So the actual time of Birth is when the forces and

magnetism, vibrationary waves of the Cosmic rays of the 9 Planets get infused

in the body of the child, which can only happen with the first breath and not

necessarily with the cutting of the chord or the first cry which may not always

co-incide with the first breath. This is commonsense.

 

Now the question is whatever may be the right time of Birth , I mean whatever

may be the parameters, how is it possible to determine the right time of Birth

for Horoscope Calculation and study purposes ?

 

I am giving below the Birth particulars of my own Grand daughter who was

born recently.

 

We have two times for Time of Birth. one was when my wife heard the

first cry from the labour room and another which the Nurse inside the

room, said was the correct time . Do You think I would believe the

Nurse ? No. Do you think I would believe my wife ? No. Do

You think I would believe their watches as right ? No.

 

Today I had to give the Pundit, the Birth particulars so that he could make

the Birth Chart manually in the way its normally made (Sans Computer).

 

Please tell me what time do You think i gave the Pundit ? And why ?

I myself went for the rectification and RP's were taken for the time 19 Dec 2009 Saturday' 18.51.10 Jaipur.

 

I have been given two times for my grand daughter as her time of Birth.

One from my wife, and other by the Nurse .

 

Date of Birth - 9th November 2009, Place - Jaipur

Recorded Times - 9.03am and 9.08 am.

 

Now what time do you think I decided to give the Pundit after reckoning

with the RP's at time of judgement ?

 

And once you decide this, then what does it matter whether this is

the time of the first breath or the the first cry or the time when the

chord was cut ?????? Does this matter if You are really a true KP

Astrologer ? Why do you need such inputs ? Why cant you

do the rectification yourself ?

 

Now please answer me, what birth of time do you think I asked the

Punditji to make the Horoscope for, and Why ?

 

And once you decide the Actual Birth time, what do you think happened

at your "arrived at Birth time ". Did the baby cry first ? Did she breathe

first ? Or was the chord cut at your arrived Birth of time.

 

If You cannot answer the second part, do not bother, for this does not

bother me. I should be able to rectify the "assumed Birth time" is what

should bother me as an KP Astrologer. Other theories should not take

my time or efforts or energies. I am only concerned with the right Time

of Birth whatever its parameters may be.

 

regards/Bhaskar.

 

 

, "adith kasinath.g.k" <gkadithkasinath wrote:>> Dear sirs,> > Death is the last breath and Birth is the first Breath.> First breath happens when? May Dr. Luther or Dr. Sheetal can throw some> light on this.> > If it is only when the baby cries, some times, the baby does not cry> immediately even after the separation from the mother.> Sometimes the baby cries even before the separation.> > Or can we take as the time when the chord is cut and the link is> disconnected?> > This is one question.> > Another is the time difference between the clock of the operation theratre> or the doctors or the husband accompanying his wife and also the difference> between the said time and the Indian standard time.> Hence there are lot of chances for errors to happen.> > Regards> Adith> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi wrote:> > >> >> > Dear Punit,> > The entire discussion which seems to have developed into> > an argument,sadly, arose on : " Whether the correct TOB is the> > Time of the First breath of a newborn..."> > The commonsense answer to this simple question is when it> > begins to breathe,and live on its own(we normally say a person is dead when> > he ceases to breathe,he ceases to live),but several people began to give/add> > several different parameters to consider the Correct TOB...which you,in my> > opinion,in the name of "research" (needlessly) encouraged...and poor Mr.VGR> > Pavan submitted a protocol/suggestion,to which you agreed immediately,in my> > considered opinion,in too much of a hurry...*That started the discussion> > in full swing,one thing leading to another... and that has brought us to> > this stage now...Isn't it ?*> > * This was,to put the record straight...*> > * *Yogesh Lajmi.> > * GOOD LUCK !*> >> > ------------------------------> > ** Punit Pandey punitp > *To:* > > *Sent:* Fri, 18 December, 2009 10:25:14 AM> >> > *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> > Dear Lajmi ji,> >> > See my response to you to your another post - http://groups. /> > group/k_p_ system/message/ 30095</message/30095>.> > I pointed out connection between RP and Varahamihira's Nashta Jatakam in> > year 2003 (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 254</message/254>)> > in this forum itself. *Now tell me, who is ignorant*?> >> > Please read my mail and you will find that I didn't say that method> > suggested by you is not practicable. It is said by Suresh ji that other> > methods were not practicable and hence I wanted to understand why so. I> > think Suresh ji is better person to answer your question of practicable as> > these are his thoughts.> >> > I would request you to stop such baseless talks and focus on the subject. I> > do not have any "angst" against anybody. I kept repeating - for me, all KP> > authors are same and I believe in verification. Whether it is Great> > Varahamihira or Sage Parahshar or Shri KSK or Shri KSK's soon, I don't> > follow anybody blindly and it is what Shri KSK has taught us. Your attempt> > to make people follow KSK's sons blindly is simply against Shri KSK's> > teachings. You can not and you should not force other people to believe what> > you believe. You are not a PR agency or publicity agency for a person or a> > publication and you should not behave like that. We are not here to sell> > products or promote something, but for KP study, research and development> > and we should focus on that.> >> > I would not have even approved your emails as those are unnecessarily> > disturbing nature. We are doing one important BTR methods verification> > process and your emails are diverting attention from the core subject. Your> > emails are approved just because I myself was the target of your attack and> > I thought I must answer all your questions in the forum so that everyone> > knows about it. But we will all agree that it is sheer waste of our time and> > forum's time.> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ yogeshlajmi > > wrote:> >> >>> >>> >> Dear Punit,> >> Exactly which method suggested by me *is not practicable,according to you...> >> *> >> * *I have already,a few minutes ago,written to you> >> exposing your ignorance about what Varaha Mihira has exactly said about "how> >> to erect Birth Chart of unknown TOB..."> >> Without being harsh,I must point out that the sooner you> >> realise that there is a *whole lot more* to Astrology,both *Traditional> >> as well as K.P System.,* than you think you know... the better it will be> >> for ALL of US....!> >> With best wishes,> >> Yogesh Lajmi.> >> GOOD LUCK !> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------> >> ** Punit Pandey punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com punitp> >> *To:* @gro ups.com > >>> >> *Sent:* Thu, 17 December, 2009 10:56:49 AM> >> *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?> >>> >>> >>> >> Dear Suresh ji,> >>> >> Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and that> >> is the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind following,> >> Shri KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work> >> 'consistently'.. Instead of blind following, we should verify what works> >> well and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.> >>> >> Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written. Which> >> method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not> >> practicable and logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should follow> >> only one "stalwart" and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see the> >> file section and you will find that the most promoted method by Lajmi ji> >> (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected by a study. We should not close our eyes> >> and blindly follow anything, it is what I think.> >>> >> Thanks & Regards,> >>> >> Punit Pandey> >>> >>> >>> >> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_suresh@ hattangadi_suresh >> > wrote:> >>> >>>> >>>> >>> Dear Punitji,> >>> Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP> >>> followers more..In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is> >>> practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this matter is> >>> like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular> >>> method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and> >>> insist further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort should be> >>> instead on finding out if this particular method suggested and advocated by> >>> Lajmiji does give correct results and research if any should be on this> >>> line.> >>> Suresh Hattangadi> >>>> >>>> >>> >> ------------------------------> >> See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now<http://au.rd./movies/mailtagline/*http://au.movies../session-times/>> >> .> >>> >>> >> > ------------------------------> > See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now<http://au.rd./movies/mailtagline/*http://au.movies./session-times/>> > .> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Dear friends,Recorded Birth time, Reported time, rectified birth time etc., are various terms in use in astrology. But I am repeatedly telling "EXACT/CORRECT/TRUE BIRTH TIME" is known only to God. Let us admit that we, the humans, have our own limitations.Regarding first breath/first cry concept of Birth Time, I posted, some time back in this forum,(sorry I have no record date of this msg), with no response from any member, my own case i.e., my grand daughter wasprematuredly removed by caeserian operation and was immediately put under oxygen, kept in incubation for two days. what is her 1st breath (since no cry) ? She could not take breath on her own for two days (under oxygen in incubation). Now which definition of Birth time suits in this case ?What we know is a speck in the ocean of astrology science. Every one learns

and practices, adopts some theories/methods based on his convictions, developes some skills attains some percentage of success in his predictions. Hiding this fact, people unnecessarily blaming or creticising others is not a healthy practice. No one is perfect to be franc. "I am OK, you are not OK" is the most commonly found weakness in our society. We should try to adopt "I am OK, you are OK" principle which will avoid all these problems.Thanks & Regards,Naidu KP K. P. Naidu,Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta,VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.--- On Sun, 20/12/09, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:Punit Pandey <punitpRe: What is the correct birth time?To:

Date: Sunday, 20 December, 2009, 3:46 PM

 

 

Dear Lajmi ji,

 

I have repeated it many times and now saying it the last time. We are working with the assumption that the recorded time, if not exact, is close enough to the actual time, whatever way we define that actual time. The method that hits consistently close to the recorded time gives good indication of accuracy of the method.

 

Allow us to conduct this exercise first and then you can raise questions. The current behavior of discouraging studies and diverting attention is not conductive for learning and not accepted.

 

Though, as mentioned in another email, if you have a better suggestion for birth time verification (not rectification) , I am more than willing to listen it.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Mr.Naidu,

Isn't there a difference between "clinical death and physical death" ?

Similarly, is there a difference between "clinically alive" and "physically alive"...?

Does K.P., define these ? Or Traditional Astrology differentiate these ? Or any other System of Astrology define them ?

These questions do not seem to have been addressed by anybody,including Punit....

Can any one throw some light on this issue...let us be clear on this issue,before we proceed to redefine "Correct TOB"...

Will Punit like to enlighten us all, on this subject... ?

I hope we get some revealing/enlighten ing replies,in order to be very clear...on subjects like Births and Deaths...

With a lot of hope and expectations. ..

Yogesh Lajmi

GOOD LUCK !

 

 

 

K. P. Naidu <konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in>

@gro ups.comThu, 17 December, 2009 11:57:17 AM Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Members,various methods of RBT are discussed by KP followers in this forum. How to verify the so called exact birth time as arrived by any of these RBT, is not discussed much. How to prove the exactness/truth of such a Birth Time ? Is it the actual time of 1st breath of the child - God only knows..

A Birth Time which satisfies all the life events of the native, as per KP rules, I think, can be taken as correct Birth Time, whether such a Birth time satisfy the rules/equation of any RBT or not. Further, predictions made on such a Birth Time, as per KP rules, if come true and successful, such a Birth Time can be accepted as correct/exact Birth Time.

Naidu KP K. P. Naidu,Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta,VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.--- On Thu, 17/12/09, Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.com Thursday, 17 December, 2009, 10:56 AM

 

Dear Suresh ji,

 

Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and that is the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind following, Shri KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work 'consistently' . Instead of blind following, we should verify what works well and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.

 

Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written. Which method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not practicable and logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should follow only one "stalwart" and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see the file section and you will find that the most promoted method by Lajmi ji (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected by a study. We should not close our eyes and blindly follow anything, it is what I think.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_suresh@ > wrote:

 

 

 

Dear Punitji,Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP followers more.In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort should be instead on finding out if this particular method suggested and advocated by Lajmiji does give correct results and research if any should be on this line.

Suresh Hattangadi

 

 

 

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.

 

 

 

See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.

 

 

 

 

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends,A True real KP Astrologer may not even need the time period (9.03 to 9.08 am). He can find the actual time without that.!But who knows which is correct.Now the discussion was to ascertain the BRT with the so called actual birth time. Both may or may not be true.

As Senthil ji said, RPs of the most of the astrologers during BTR were almost matching and only the interpretation by the astrologers did vary. So so many options.So planets help and we to work hard to find the truth which is very tough.

Because,  for a known answers in a quiz, we all could not give the right answers many times and hardly few hit the bulls eye. because it needs lot of excercise even for a good real KP astrologer.So you can not just imagine that the time rectified must be correct always for an unknown truth.

It needs lot of research in all aspects scientifically and astrologically.For a grown up man, once BRT is done with the help of RPs and other procedures  , it can be verified with his past events which is also sometimes difficult as many choices will match to the event.

RegardsAdithOn Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear friends.

 

Lets not waste time in such discussions which does not nehove for a

good KP Astrologer.  

 

The Birth time is exactly when the support system from mother is removed

and the child begins to live on its own. This can only happen when the child

begins to breathe on its own. This does not necessarily imply that the child

will cry with its first breath. So the actual time of Birth is when the forces and

magnetism, vibrationary waves of the Cosmic rays of the 9 Planets get infused

in the body of the child, which can only happen with the first breath and not

necessarily with the cutting of the chord or the first cry which may not always

co-incide with the first breath. This is commonsense.

 

Now the question is whatever may be the right time of Birth , I mean whatever

may be the parameters, how is it possible to determine the right time of Birth

for Horoscope Calculation and study purposes ?

 

I am giving below the Birth particulars of my own Grand daughter who was

born recently.

 

We have two times for Time of Birth. one was when my wife heard the

first cry from the labour room and another which the Nurse inside the

room, said was the correct time . Do You think I would believe the

Nurse ? No. Do you think I would believe my wife ? No. Do

You think I would believe their watches as right ? No.

 

Today I had to give the Pundit, the Birth particulars so that he could make

the Birth Chart manually in the way its normally made (Sans Computer).

 

Please tell me what time do You think i gave the Pundit ? And why ?

I myself went for the rectification and RP's were taken for the time       19 Dec 2009 Saturday' 18.51.10 Jaipur.

 

I have been given two times for my grand daughter as her time of Birth.

One from my wife, and other by the Nurse .

 

Date of Birth - 9th November 2009,  Place - Jaipur

Recorded Times - 9.03am   and   9.08 am.

 

Now what time do you think I decided to give the Pundit after reckoning

with the RP's at time of judgement ?

 

And once you decide this, then what does it matter whether this is

the time of the first breath or the the first cry or the time when the

chord was cut ?????? Does this matter if You are really a true KP

Astrologer ? Why do you need such inputs ? Why cant you

do the rectification yourself ?

 

Now please answer me, what birth of time do you think I asked the

Punditji to make the Horoscope for, and Why ?

 

And once you decide the Actual Birth time, what do you think happened

at your " arrived at Birth time " . Did the baby cry first ? Did she breathe

first ? Or was the chord cut at your arrived Birth of time.

 

If You cannot answer the second part, do not bother, for this does not

bother me. I should be able to rectify the " assumed Birth time " is what

should bother me as an KP Astrologer. Other theories should not take 

my time or efforts or energies. I am only concerned with the right Time

of Birth whatever its parameters may be.

 

regards/Bhaskar.

 

 

, " adith kasinath.g.k " <gkadithkasinath wrote:>> Dear sirs,

> > Death is the last breath and Birth is the first Breath.> First breath happens when? May Dr. Luther or Dr. Sheetal can throw some> light on this.> > If it is only when the baby cries, some times, the baby does not cry

> immediately even after the separation from the mother.> Sometimes the baby cries even before the separation.> > Or can we take as the time when the chord is cut and the link is> disconnected?

> > This is one question.> > Another is the time difference between the clock of the operation theratre> or the doctors or the husband accompanying his wife and also the difference> between the said time and the Indian standard time.

> Hence there are lot of chances for errors to happen.> > Regards> Adith> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi wrote:> > >

> >> > Dear Punit,> > The entire discussion which seems to have developed into> > an argument,sadly, arose on : " Whether the correct TOB is the> > Time of the First breath of a newborn... "

> > The commonsense answer to this simple question is when it> > begins to breathe,and live on its own(we normally say a person is dead when> > he ceases to breathe,he ceases to live),but several people began to give/add

> > several different parameters to consider the Correct TOB...which you,in my> > opinion,in the name of " research " (needlessly) encouraged...and poor Mr.VGR> > Pavan submitted a protocol/suggestion,to which you agreed immediately,in my

> > considered opinion,in too much of a hurry...*That started the discussion> > in full swing,one thing leading to another... and that has brought us to> > this stage now...Isn't it ?*> > * This was,to put the record straight...*

> > * *Yogesh Lajmi.> > * GOOD LUCK !*> >> > ------------------------------> > ** Punit Pandey punitp > *To:*

> > *Sent:* Fri, 18 December, 2009 10:25:14 AM> >> > *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> > Dear Lajmi ji,> >

> > See my response to you to your another post - http://groups. /> > group/k_p_ system/message/ 30095</message/30095>.

> > I pointed out connection between RP and Varahamihira's Nashta Jatakam in> > year 2003 (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 254</message/254>)

> > in this forum itself. *Now tell me, who is ignorant*?> >> > Please read my mail and you will find that I didn't say that method> > suggested by you is not practicable. It is said by Suresh ji that other

> > methods were not practicable and hence I wanted to understand why so. I> > think Suresh ji is better person to answer your question of practicable as> > these are his thoughts.> >

> > I would request you to stop such baseless talks and focus on the subject. I> > do not have any " angst " against anybody. I kept repeating - for me, all KP> > authors are same and I believe in verification. Whether it is Great

> > Varahamihira or Sage Parahshar or Shri KSK or Shri KSK's soon, I don't> > follow anybody blindly and it is what Shri KSK has taught us. Your attempt> > to make people follow KSK's sons blindly is simply against Shri KSK's

> > teachings. You can not and you should not force other people to believe what> > you believe. You are not a PR agency or publicity agency for a person or a> > publication and you should not behave like that. We are not here to sell

> > products or promote something, but for KP study, research and development> > and we should focus on that.> >> > I would not have even approved your emails as those are unnecessarily

> > disturbing nature. We are doing one important BTR methods verification> > process and your emails are diverting attention from the core subject. Your> > emails are approved just because I myself was the target of your attack and

> > I thought I must answer all your questions in the forum so that everyone> > knows about it. But we will all agree that it is sheer waste of our time and> > forum's time.> >> > Thanks & Regards,

> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ yogeshlajmi > > wrote:> >

> >>> >>> >> Dear Punit,> >> Exactly which method suggested by me *is not practicable,according to you...> >> *> >> * *I have already,a few minutes ago,written to you

> >> exposing your ignorance about what Varaha Mihira has exactly said about " how> >> to erect Birth Chart of unknown TOB... " > >> Without being harsh,I must point out that the sooner you

> >> realise that there is a *whole lot more* to Astrology,both *Traditional> >> as well as K.P System.,* than you think you know... the better it will be> >> for ALL of US....!> >> With best wishes,

> >> Yogesh Lajmi.> >> GOOD LUCK !> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------> >> ** Punit Pandey punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com punitp> >> *To:* @gro ups.com

> >>> >> *Sent:* Thu, 17 December, 2009 10:56:49 AM> >> *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?> >>> >>> >>

> >> Dear Suresh ji,> >>> >> Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and that> >> is the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind following,

> >> Shri KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work> >> 'consistently'.. Instead of blind following, we should verify what works> >> well and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.

> >>> >> Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written. Which> >> method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not> >> practicable and logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should follow

> >> only one " stalwart " and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see the> >> file section and you will find that the most promoted method by Lajmi ji> >> (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected by a study. We should not close our eyes

> >> and blindly follow anything, it is what I think.> >>> >> Thanks & Regards,> >>> >> Punit Pandey> >>> >>> >>

> >> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_suresh@ hattangadi_suresh >> > wrote:> >>> >>>> >>>> >>> Dear Punitji,

> >>> Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP> >>> followers more..In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is> >>> practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this matter is

> >>> like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular> >>> method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and> >>> insist further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort should be

> >>> instead on finding out if this particular method suggested and advocated by> >>> Lajmiji does give correct results and research if any should be on this> >>> line.> >>> Suresh Hattangadi

> >>>> >>>> >>> >> ------------------------------> >> See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now<http://au.rd./movies/mailtagline/*http://au.movies../session-times/>

> >> .> >>> >>> >> > ------------------------------> > See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now<http://au.rd./movies/mailtagline/*http://au.movies./session-times/>

> > .> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends,

 

If you are a good astrologer, and If You think you are a KP

Astrologer and ....

 

1) if a person comes to you with his sons chart and asks

you "please tell me whether my son will have a Love marriage

or an arranged marriage ". Then will you ask the person whether

his son is involved in an Love affair before you present your

predictions ? Or will you call for his son and ask him this ?

Or will you not check the chart , the dashas, the connection

of the 5th house with the 7th etc ? (and also if you are a good

KP Astrologer then confirm fro the RP's that the 7th Cuspal

SubLord is right, and go ahead in your predictions ?)

 

OR

 

2) If a lady comes to you asking for when she will have a child,

and you notice after studying the chart that after 8 months there

is a possibility of child Birth , then will you bother her and yourself

by asking her "Madam did you have sex with your husband 1 month

ago ?" Are you not supposed to check the results yourself ?

Why must you bother about when they had a physical union.

Thats not your lookout. Your job is to predict with the given data.

and if you feel its not right or wish to fine tune it, then rectify

the 5th Cuspal Sub lord, or if you are smart then rectify the

ascendant itself.

 

If You can predict the above from the chart, then why cant you

predict from the time of Birth given to you, instead of bothering for

the whether the time recorded was , for (a) first Breath (b) first cry

© cutting of umblical chord.

 

My personal view is, go for the rectification, and do not bother or

break your head into thinking that what does the rectified Birth

time actually imply. (In terms of a, b or c above).

 

regards/Bhaskar.

 

 

, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:>> Dear friends. Lets not waste time in such discussions which does not> nehove for a good KP Astrologer. The Birth time is exactly when the> support system from mother is removed and the child begins to live on> its own. This can only happen when the child begins to breathe on its> own. This does not necessarily imply that the child will cry with its> first breath. So the actual time of Birth is when the forces and> magnetism, vibrationary waves of the Cosmic rays of the 9 Planets get> infused in the body of the child, which can only happen with the first> breath and not necessarily with the cutting of the chord or the first> cry which may not always co-incide with the first breath. This is> commonsense. Now the question is whatever may be the right time of> Birth , I mean whatever may be the parameters, how is it possible to> determine the right time of Birth for Horoscope Calculation and study> purposes ? I am giving below the Birth particulars of my own Grand> daughter who was born recently. We have two times for Time of Birth.> one was when my wife heard the first cry from the labour room and> another which the Nurse inside the room, said was the correct time . Do> You think I would believe the Nurse ? No. Do you think I would believe> my wife ? No. Do You think I would believe their watches as right ? No.> Today I had to give the Pundit, the Birth particulars so that he could> make the Birth Chart manually in the way its normally made (Sans> Computer). Please tell me what time do You think i gave the Pundit ?> And why ? I myself went for the rectification and RP's were taken for> the time 19 Dec 2009 Saturday' 18.51.10 Jaipur. I have been> given two times for my grand daughter as her time of Birth. One from my> wife, and other by the Nurse . Date of Birth - 9th November 2009, > Place - Jaipur Recorded Times - 9.03am and 9.08 am. Now what time> do you think I decided to give the Pundit after reckoning with the RP's> at time of judgement ? And once you decide this, then what does it> matter whether this is the time of the first breath or the the first cry> or the time when the chord was cut ?????? Does this matter if You are> really a true KP Astrologer ? Why do you need such inputs ? Why cant you> do the rectification yourself ? Now please answer me, what birth of> time do you think I asked the Punditji to make the Horoscope for, and> Why ? And once you decide the Actual Birth time, what do you think> happened at your "arrived at Birth time ". Did the baby cry first ? Did> she breathe first ? Or was the chord cut at your arrived Birth of time.> If You cannot answer the second part, do not bother, for this does not > bother me. I should be able to rectify the "assumed Birth time" is what> should bother me as an KP Astrologer. Other theories should not take my> time or efforts or energies. I am only concerned with the right Time of> Birth whatever its parameters may be. regards/Bhaskar.> > > > , "adith kasinath.g.k"> gkadithkasinath@ wrote:> >> > Dear sirs,> >> > Death is the last breath and Birth is the first Breath.> > First breath happens when? May Dr. Luther or Dr. Sheetal can throw> some> > light on this.> >> > If it is only when the baby cries, some times, the baby does not cry> > immediately even after the separation from the mother.> > Sometimes the baby cries even before the separation.> >> > Or can we take as the time when the chord is cut and the link is> > disconnected?> >> > This is one question.> >> > Another is the time difference between the clock of the operation> theratre> > or the doctors or the husband accompanying his wife and also the> difference> > between the said time and the Indian standard time.> > Hence there are lot of chances for errors to happen.> >> > Regards> > Adith> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:> >> > >> > >> > > Dear Punit,> > > The entire discussion which seems to have developed into> > > an argument,sadly, arose on : " Whether the correct TOB is the> > > Time of the First breath of a newborn..."> > > The commonsense answer to this simple question is when it> > > begins to breathe,and live on its own(we normally say a person is> dead when> > > he ceases to breathe,he ceases to live),but several people began to> give/add> > > several different parameters to consider the Correct TOB...which> you,in my> > > opinion,in the name of "research" (needlessly) encouraged...and poor> Mr.VGR> > > Pavan submitted a protocol/suggestion,to which you agreed> immediately,in my> > > considered opinion,in too much of a hurry...*That started the> discussion> > > in full swing,one thing leading to another... and that has brought> us to> > > this stage now...Isn't it ?*> > > * This was,to put the record straight...*> > > * *Yogesh Lajmi.> > > * GOOD LUCK !*> > >> > > ------------------------------> > > ** Punit Pandey punitp@> > > *To:* > > > *Sent:* Fri, 18 December, 2009 10:25:14 AM> > >> > > *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Lajmi ji,> > >> > > See my response to you to your another post - http://groups.> /> > > group/k_p_ system/message/> 30095</message/30095>.> > > I pointed out connection between RP and Varahamihira's Nashta> Jatakam in> > > year 2003 (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/> 254</message/254>)> > > in this forum itself. *Now tell me, who is ignorant*?> > >> > > Please read my mail and you will find that I didn't say that method> > > suggested by you is not practicable. It is said by Suresh ji that> other> > > methods were not practicable and hence I wanted to understand why> so. I> > > think Suresh ji is better person to answer your question of> practicable as> > > these are his thoughts.> > >> > > I would request you to stop such baseless talks and focus on the> subject. I> > > do not have any "angst" against anybody. I kept repeating - for me,> all KP> > > authors are same and I believe in verification. Whether it is Great> > > Varahamihira or Sage Parahshar or Shri KSK or Shri KSK's soon, I> don't> > > follow anybody blindly and it is what Shri KSK has taught us. Your> attempt> > > to make people follow KSK's sons blindly is simply against Shri> KSK's> > > teachings. You can not and you should not force other people to> believe what> > > you believe. You are not a PR agency or publicity agency for a> person or a> > > publication and you should not behave like that. We are not here to> sell> > > products or promote something, but for KP study, research and> development> > > and we should focus on that.> > >> > > I would not have even approved your emails as those are> unnecessarily> > > disturbing nature. We are doing one important BTR methods> verification> > > process and your emails are diverting attention from the core> subject. Your> > > emails are approved just because I myself was the target of your> attack and> > > I thought I must answer all your questions in the forum so that> everyone> > > knows about it. But we will all agree that it is sheer waste of our> time and> > > forum's time.> > >> > > Thanks & Regards,> > >> > > Punit Pandey> > >> > >> > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@> yogeshlajmi@> > > > wrote:> > >> > >>> > >>> > >> Dear Punit,> > >> Exactly which method suggested by me *is not practicable,according> to you...> > >> *> > >> * *I have already,a few minutes ago,written to you> > >> exposing your ignorance about what Varaha Mihira has exactly said> about "how> > >> to erect Birth Chart of unknown TOB..."> > >> Without being harsh,I must point out that the sooner you> > >> realise that there is a *whole lot more* to Astrology,both> *Traditional> > >> as well as K.P System.,* than you think you know... the better it> will be> > >> for ALL of US....!> > >> With best wishes,> > >> Yogesh Lajmi.> > >> GOOD LUCK !> > >>> > >>> > >> ------------------------------> > >> ** Punit Pandey punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com punitp@> > >> *To:* @gro ups.com > > >>> > >> *Sent:* Thu, 17 December, 2009 10:56:49 AM> > >> *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> Dear Suresh ji,> > >>> > >> Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us> and that> > >> is the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind> following,> > >> Shri KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't> work> > >> 'consistently'.. Instead of blind following, we should verify what> works> > >> well and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.> > >>> > >> Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written.> Which> > >> method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are> not> > >> practicable and logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should> follow> > >> only one "stalwart" and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please> see the> > >> file section and you will find that the most promoted method by> Lajmi ji> > >> (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected by a study. We should not close> our eyes> > >> and blindly follow anything, it is what I think.> > >>> > >> Thanks & Regards,> > >>> > >> Punit Pandey> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_suresh@> hattangadi_suresh@> > >> > wrote:> > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> Dear Punitji,> > >>> Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse> KP> > >>> followers more..In actual practice only method suggested by> Lajmiji is> > >>> practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this> matter is> > >>> like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a> particular> > >>> method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve> that and> > >>> insist further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort> should be> > >>> instead on finding out if this particular method suggested and> advocated by> > >>> Lajmiji does give correct results and research if any should be on> this> > >>> line.> > >>> Suresh Hattangadi> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> ------------------------------> > >> See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out> now<http://au.rd./movies/mailtagline/*http://au.movies...c\> om/session-times/>> > >> .> > >>> > >>> > >> > > ------------------------------> > > See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out> now<http://au.rd./movies/mailtagline/*http://au.movies..co\> m/session-times/>> > > .> > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends,

1. " AA --- Accurate data as recorded by the family or state. This includes BC

(birth certificate), and BR (birth record), that which is not an official

document but a quote of the birth record from the Registrar or Bureau of

Records, the baptismal certificate, family Bible, or baby book. These data

reflect the best available accuracy. "

2. As the astrological research computer program is not yet available, we apply

a SIMPLE METHOD in our research study by checking chart by chart, as done by our

Gurus and Church of Light (Astrology, 30 Years Research), whether each of the

following definitions is met (tallied) or not, without any assumption or

anything else.

Moon Star = ASC Sub

Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub

/message/16092?threaded=1 & l=1

Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.doc (File section)

Explanation of the Test Results

3. In Astrological Statistical Research, there are the simple method and the

proper statistical analysis, as mention in the point 1 and 2 of:

A Study of 100 Prisoner Charts.doc (File section)

Thanks and regards,

TW

 

, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:

>

> Dear Suprakash ji,

>

> AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and

> better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you

> want to do it?

>

> Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please

> suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of

> connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your

> suggestions incorporated.

>

> Thanks & Regards,

>

> Punit Pandey

>

>

> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <

> suprakash.ghosh wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Dear Punit ji

> >

> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the

> > basic conditions assumed during the test.

> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the

> > genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been

> > analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is

> > that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between

> > moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt

> > conjunction.Was all the charts analysed in this way?

> >

> > If not, then the test has no relevance.

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Suprakash

> >

> >

> >

> > -

> > ** Punit Pandey <punitp

> > *To:*

> > *Sent:* Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM

> > *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Suresh ji,

> >

> > Please see your post (

> > /message/30047). I quote -

> >

> > 1. " In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as

> > well as logical. "

> > 2. " Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the

> > wheel. "

> > 3. " When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited

> > and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research

> > on the subject is surprising. "

> >

> > *Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method " most often " and the study

> > found that the method doesn't work.* Please see the file section and you

> > can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study

> > found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. *That is the reason I say

> > that we should not " blindly " follow even Stalwarts.* Your opinion (point

> > no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them " blindly "

> > which also means following incorrect methods.

> >

> > *What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of

> > available methods.* People who are marketing their methods for a long

> > time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may

> > not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of

> > KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating

> > in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum

> > loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must

> > participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we

> > will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win.

> >

> > Thanks & Regards,

> >

> > Punit Pandey

> >

> >

> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_sureshwrote:

> >

> >>

> >>

> >> Dear Punitji,

> >> I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not

> >> read full comment where I have said you can test this method for

results.But

> >> again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji,s forty years

> >> experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his

> >> experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be

> >> conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently

> >> by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post.

> >> Suresh Hattangadi

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

/message/9816

/message/9783

/message/9857

/message/23112

/message/22430

/message/4750?threaded=1 & l=1

" the moment the whole body of the child has got separated from that of mother "

-KP Reader VI, p 88 first para

" the time of severance of the child from the mother is the time of birth of the

child..... "

-Astrosecrets & K.P., vol II, 2003, p 273 (Interview with Guruji KSK)

There are three moments which can be taken as birth time:

1) Adhana lagna the moment of conception

2) Siro darshana lagna when the head becomes visible

3) Bhu patana lagna when the body touches the earth

As the first two moments are hard to ascertain, it is to take the third one

only.

-Satyacharya in Satya Jatakam

It is an established fact that it is next to impossible to fix a correct time of

birth, the reason being none knows what is the criteria to be followed to find

out the correct time of birth. Even a Doctor who is also an Astrologer, has said

that when he wanted to know the correct time of birth for his two daughters by

making himself present in the labour room where the delivery took place,he has

failed in his attempt. He says when the head came out of the womb of the Mother

a neither the full body of the child came out nor the umbilical cord was cut. He

was doubtful whether the low hizzing noise indicates the first breath taken by

the child etc.,and if so that can be taken as correct time of birth.

-KP Kuppu Ganapathi

I am not at all convinced that the astrlogical time of birth, i.e. the time that

'works' is also the time of first breath, the emergence of the head, the cutting

of the umbilical cord, or any of the various physiological indicia of

birth....if this (rectified birth time) was confirmed by current events

accurately and consistently clicked off for many years, I would accept the

astrological time for all astrological purposes, and not the medical time of

birth...….In order to do this, a good case history is as essential to an

astrologer as to a doctor or psychoanalyst.

-Charles Jayne in 'The Technique of Rectification'

 

 

 

, R Satish <rsatish1942 wrote:

>

>    Dear Dr Rath & other Doctors,

>                        There are divergent thoughts on what

constitutes a " correct " birth time,viewed purely from Doctor's point of view.In

astrological parlance,there are various concepts/theories.

>                         Medical explanation of " Correct Birth

Time " will provide a benchmark,to understand and clear misconceptions I request

to consider normal births with its variations and  abnormal procedures.

>                         Regards,                    

     Satish.

>

> --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:

>

> Punit Pandey <punitp

> Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

> Sunday, December 20, 2009, 3:27 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

>

>

>

Dear Lajmi ji,

>  

> I understand that you are not in agreement with what can be called as correct

birth time and hence you question the verification process. I understand your

disagreement. Now you tell me how to verify the method(s) you are suggesting? We

need some way to verify so many BTR methods.

>

>

> Thanks & Regards,

>

> Punit Pandey

>

>

>

> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

>

>

>  

>

>

>

>

>

> Dear Punit,

>                  The entire discussion which seems to have

developed into an argument,sadly, arose on          :   " Whether

the  correct TOB is the Time of the First breath of a newborn... "

>                  The commonsense answer to this simple

question is when it begins to breathe,and live on its own(we normally say a

person is dead when he ceases to breathe,he ceases to live),but several people

began to give/add several  different parameters to consider the Correct

TOB...which you,in my opinion,in the name of  " research " (needlessly)

encouraged.. .and poor Mr.VGR Pavan submitted a protocol/suggestion ,to which

you agreed immediately, in my considered opinion,in too much of a hurry...That

started the discussion in full swing,one thing leading to another... and that

has brought us to this stage now...Isn't it ?

>

>                   This was,to put the record straight...

>                   Yogesh Lajmi.

>

                                        \

     GOOD LUCK !

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

> @gro ups.com

>

> Fri, 18 December, 2009 10:25:14 AM

>

> Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

>  

>

>

> Dear Lajmi ji,

>

>  

> See my response to you to your another post - http://groups. /

group/k_p_ system/message/ 30095. I pointed out connection between RP and

Varahamihira's Nashta Jatakam in year 2003 (http://groups. / group/k_p_

system/message/ 254) in this forum itself. Now tell me, who is ignorant?

>

>  

> Please read my mail and you will find that I didn't say that method suggested

by you is not practicable. It is said by Suresh ji that other methods were not

practicable and hence I wanted to understand why so. I think Suresh ji is better

person to answer your question of practicable as these are his thoughts.

>

>  

> I would request you to stop such baseless talks and focus on the subject. I do

not have any " angst " against anybody. I kept repeating - for me, all KP authors

are same and I believe in verification. Whether it is Great Varahamihira or Sage

Parahshar or Shri KSK or Shri KSK's soon, I don't follow anybody blindly and it

is what Shri KSK has taught us. Your attempt to make people follow KSK's sons

blindly is simply against Shri KSK's teachings. You can not and you should not

force other people to believe what you believe. You are not a PR agency or

publicity agency for a person or a publication and you should not behave like

that. We are not here to sell products or promote something, but for KP study,

research and development and we should focus on that.

>

>  

> I would not have even approved your emails as those are unnecessarily

disturbing nature. We are doing one important BTR methods verification process

and your emails are diverting attention from the core subject. Your emails are

approved just because I myself was the target of your attack and I thought

I must answer all your questions in the forum so that everyone knows about it.

But we will all agree that it is sheer waste of our time and forum's time.

>

>

> Thanks & Regards,

>

> Punit Pandey

>

>

>

>

> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

>

>

>  

Dear Punit,

>                 Exactly which method suggested by me is not

practicable, according to you...

>                 I have already,a few minutes ago,written to you

exposing your ignorance about what Varaha Mihira has exactly said about " how to

erect Birth Chart of unknown TOB... "

>                Without being harsh,I must point out that the

sooner you realise that there is a whole lot more to Astrology,both Traditional

as well as K.P System., than you think you know... the better it will be for ALL

of US....!

>

>                With best wishes,

>                Yogesh Lajmi.

>

                                        \

     GOOD LUCK !

>              

>

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

> @gro ups.com

>

> Thu, 17 December, 2009 10:56:49 AM

> Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

>

>  

>

>

>

> Dear Suresh ji,

>

>  

> Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and that is

the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind following, Shri

KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work

'consistently'.. Instead of blind following, we should verify what works well

and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.

>

>  

> Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written. Which method

suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not practicable and

logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should follow only one " stalwart "

and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see the file section and you will

find that the most promoted method by Lajmi ji (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected

by a study. We should not close our eyes and blindly follow anything, it is

what I think.

>

>

> Thanks & Regards,

>

> Punit Pandey

>

>

>

>

> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_suresh@ > wrote:

>

>

>  

>

>

>

> Dear Punitji,

> Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP

followers more..In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is

practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this matter is

like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular

method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist

further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort should be instead on

finding out if this particular method suggested and advocated by Lajmiji does

give correct results and research if any should be on this line.

>

> Suresh Hattangadi

>

>

>

>

>

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>

>

>

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>

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr.Naidu,

Let me first make you comfortable...I am OK !

Your problem can be very easily solved by the Ruling Planets,which can be taken when a strong and genuine urge arises to know the truth... !

I have also described this method in these columns on atleast 3 or 4 occasions....

Now,I wish You're OK too... !

With best wishes,

Yogesh Lajmi.

 

 

 

K. P. Naidu <konathalan Sent: Sun, 20 December, 2009 10:36:10 PMRe: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

Dear friends,Recorded Birth time, Reported time, rectified birth time etc., are various terms in use in astrology. But I am repeatedly telling "EXACT/CORRECT/ TRUE BIRTH TIME" is known only to God. Let us admit that we, the humans, have our own limitations.Regarding first breath/first cry concept of Birth Time, I posted, some time back in this forum,(sorry I have no record date of this msg), with no response from any member, my own case i.e., my grand daughter wasprematuredly removed by caeserian operation and was immediately put under oxygen, kept in incubation for two days. what is her 1st breath (since no cry) ? She could not take breath on her own for two days (under oxygen in incubation). Now which definition of Birth time suits in this case ?What we know is a speck in the ocean of astrology science. Every one learns and practices, adopts some theories/methods based on his convictions, developes

some skills attains some percentage of success in his predictions. Hiding this fact, people unnecessarily blaming or creticising others is not a healthy practice. No one is perfect to be franc. "I am OK, you are not OK" is the most commonly found weakness in our society. We should try to adopt "I am OK, you are OK" principle which will avoid all these problems.Thanks & Regards,Naidu KP K. P. Naidu,Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta,VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.--- On Sun, 20/12/09, Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.comSunday, 20 December, 2009, 3:46 PM

 

Dear Lajmi ji,

 

I have repeated it many times and now saying it the last time. We are working with the assumption that the recorded time, if not exact, is close enough to the actual time, whatever way we define that actual time. The method that hits consistently close to the recorded time gives good indication of accuracy of the method.

 

Allow us to conduct this exercise first and then you can raise questions. The current behavior of discouraging studies and diverting attention is not conductive for learning and not accepted.

 

Though, as mentioned in another email, if you have a better suggestion for birth time verification (not rectification) , I am more than willing to listen it.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Mr.Naidu,

Isn't there a difference between "clinical death and physical death" ?

Similarly, is there a difference between "clinically alive" and "physically alive"...?

Does K.P., define these ? Or Traditional Astrology differentiate these ? Or any other System of Astrology define them ?

These questions do not seem to have been addressed by anybody,including Punit....

Can any one throw some light on this issue...let us be clear on this issue,before we proceed to redefine "Correct TOB"...

Will Punit like to enlighten us all, on this subject... ?

I hope we get some revealing/enlighten ing replies,in order to be very clear...on subjects like Births and Deaths...

With a lot of hope and expectations. ..

Yogesh Lajmi

GOOD LUCK !

 

 

 

K. P. Naidu <konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in>

@gro ups.comThu, 17 December, 2009 11:57:17 AM Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Members,various methods of RBT are discussed by KP followers in this forum. How to verify the so called exact birth time as arrived by any of these RBT, is not discussed much. How to prove the exactness/truth of such a Birth Time ? Is it the actual time of 1st breath of the child - God only knows..A Birth Time which satisfies all the life events of the native, as per KP rules, I think, can be taken as correct Birth Time, whether such a Birth time satisfy the rules/equation of any RBT or not. Further, predictions made on such a Birth Time, as per KP rules, if come true and successful, such a Birth Time can be accepted as correct/exact Birth Time.Naidu KP K. P. Naidu,Flat E-1, Prince

Aptmts.,Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta,VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.--- On Thu, 17/12/09, Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

 

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.com Thursday, 17 December, 2009, 10:56 AM

 

Dear Suresh ji,

 

Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and that is the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind following, Shri KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work 'consistently' . Instead of blind following, we should verify what works well and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.

 

Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written.. Which method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not practicable and logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should follow only one "stalwart" and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see the file section and you will find that the most promoted method by Lajmi ji (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected by a study. We should not close our eyes and blindly follow anything, it is what I think.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_suresh@ > wrote:

 

 

 

Dear Punitji,Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP followers more..In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort should be instead on finding out if this particular method suggested and advocated by Lajmiji does give correct results and research if any should be on this line.Suresh Hattangadi

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Adith ji

 

I am just making u aware of the medical part and controversies about the time of birth.

 

The first breath of the child usually coincide with 1st cry of baby which in turn coincide with the physiological closure of blood vessels in umbilical cord  making baby independent from mother biologically. Though actual anatomical closure of umbillical cord & vessels may take few hours to few days later. Even though if the cord is not clamped ( anatomical separation) after delivery of baby, usually and normally blood vessels contracts and blood flow stops( mother stops maintaining the baby) . As soon as the baby takes the first breath, Oxygen enters the lungs of baby with force and it opens up the lungs alveoli, which brings about so many immediate chemical/ gaseous changes within seconds, in foetal circulation. This constrict the umbilical blood vessels automatically The forceful entry of air into hollow pipe of air passage produce a sound like cry. First cry may not produce strong sound but subsequent gushing of air brings about the successive cry sequence.

 

 

During delivery, as soon as the baby's head is out of the entroitus, it is a routine practice to clean the baby's nose and mouth so that secretion should not be aspirated by the baby and that time only baby take the first breath. Many factors are responsible for stimulation of respiration eg skin contact with external stimulate, external air/atmosphere, touch etc. The entry of air through the respiratory passage produce first mild sound, many times followed by successive vigorous sounds which  we call as CRY. During C.S. as soon as the baby's head is taken out of incision, there is a practice of cleaning the nose and mouth immediately for the same reason which coincide with the first breath/ cry and no body wait till whole body come out in normal or CS delivery( to avoid aspirations of the secretions on face.) There is usually no need of patting on back and all routinely. In medical practice, in past severing of the cord was noted as time of birth but now the first breath is noted as time of birth. But there are also difference of opinion about this. But correct time of birth is more important for astrologers so we have to think which time we should note as birth time.

 

In breech delivery, breech and body of the baby is delivered first and baby's head comes later and in that case time noted is after delivery of the head only.If the head delivery is delayed due to any reason( impaction), then external stimuli stimulate the respiration while the head is inside the pelvis and baby may die due to aspiration of fluid with respiration before delivery of head. Here we should think what should be taken as exact time of birth?

 

Sometimes baby doesn't breath even after complete delivery of the body and we have to resuscitate the baby to start respiration, so which time should we not here as birth time?We note here as soon as complete body is delivered whether child is alive or not.( as birth has happened)

 

Mostly mistake is due to wrong time in watches in hospital but now a days due to belief in astrology by the pts and doctors, watches with correct time are used especially in private hospital. Commonly watch is hanged on the wall of labour room so that attending doctor is in habit of seeing the watch while cleaning the nostrils and lips of baby. But still there can be difference of few mts due to human error.

 

Regards

Dr Sheetal

On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 6:14 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear sirs,Death is the last breath and Birth is the first Breath.First breath happens when? May Dr. Luther or Dr. Sheetal can throw some light on this.If it is only when the baby cries, some times, the baby does not cry immediately even after the separation from the mother.

Sometimes the baby cries even before the separation.Or can we take as the time when the chord is cut and the link is disconnected?This is one question.Another is the time difference between the clock of the operation theratre or the doctors or the husband accompanying his wife and also the difference between the said time and the Indian standard time.

Hence there are lot of chances for errors to happen.RegardsAdith

 

 

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Punit,

                 The entire discussion which seems to have developed into an argument,sadly, arose on          :   " Whether the  correct TOB is the Time of the First breath of a newborn... "

                 The commonsense answer to this simple question is when it begins to breathe,and live on its own(we normally say a person is dead when he ceases to breathe,he ceases to live),but several people began to give/add several  different parameters to consider the Correct TOB...which you,in my opinion,in the name of  " research " (needlessly) encouraged...and poor Mr.VGR Pavan submitted a protocol/suggestion,to which you agreed immediately,in my considered opinion,in too much of a hurry...That started the discussion in full swing,one thing leading to another... and that has brought us to this stage now...Isn't it ?

                  This was,to put the record straight...

                  Yogesh Lajmi.

                                             GOOD LUCK !

 

 

 

 

Punit Pandey <punitp

Fri, 18 December, 2009 10:25:14 AM Re: What is the correct birth time? 

 

Dear Lajmi ji,

 

 

See my response to you to your another post - http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30095. I pointed out connection between RP and Varahamihira's Nashta Jatakam in year 2003 (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 254) in this forum itself. Now tell me, who is ignorant?

 

Please read my mail and you will find that I didn't say that method suggested by you is not practicable. It is said by Suresh ji that other methods were not practicable and hence I wanted to understand why so. I think Suresh ji is better person to answer your question of practicable as these are his thoughts.

 

I would request you to stop such baseless talks and focus on the subject. I do not have any " angst " against anybody. I kept repeating - for me, all KP authors are same and I believe in verification. Whether it is Great Varahamihira or Sage Parahshar or Shri KSK or Shri KSK's soon, I don't follow anybody blindly and it is what Shri KSK has taught us. Your attempt to make people follow KSK's sons blindly is simply against Shri KSK's teachings. You can not and you should not force other people to believe what you believe. You are not a PR agency or publicity agency for a person or a publication and you should not behave like that. We are not here to sell products or promote something, but for KP study, research and development and we should focus on that.

 

I would not have even approved your emails as those are unnecessarily disturbing nature. We are doing one important BTR methods verification process and your emails are diverting attention from the core subject. Your emails are approved just because I myself was the target of your attack and I thought I must answer all your questions in the forum so that everyone knows about it. But we will all agree that it is sheer waste of our time and forum's time.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

 

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Punit,

                Exactly which method suggested by me is not practicable, according to you...

                I have already,a few minutes ago,written to you exposing your ignorance about what Varaha Mihira has exactly said about " how to erect Birth Chart of unknown TOB... "

               Without being harsh,I must point out that the sooner you realise that there is a whole lot more to Astrology,both Traditional as well as K.P System., than you think you know... the better it will be for ALL of US....!

               With best wishes,

               Yogesh Lajmi.

                                             GOOD LUCK !

             

 

 

 

 

 

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Thu, 17 December, 2009 10:56:49 AMRe: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

Dear Suresh ji,

 

 

Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and that is the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind following, Shri KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work 'consistently'.. Instead of blind following, we should verify what works well and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.

 

Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written. Which method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not practicable and logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should follow only one " stalwart " and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see the file section and you will find that the most promoted method by Lajmi ji (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected by a study. We should not close our eyes and blindly follow anything, it is what I think.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_suresh@ > wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear Punitji,Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP followers more..In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort should be instead on finding out if this particular method suggested and advocated by Lajmiji does give correct results and research if any should be on this line.

Suresh Hattangadi

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear sir

 

Though 1st breath always coincide with cry of baby, 1st cry may be very feeble to notice sound. Cry is a sound produced by forceful gush of air  through hollow respiratry pipe during breathing of child. 1st breath may not be sometimes so strong to produce loud sound but  sigh is always there which is important to note birth time. Sometimes dead baby may be borned which will not cry at all or If breathing is not started in a live baby for 3-4 mt, there is always a brain death and child will die. If child was alive for 2days means child was breathing ( has taken 1st breath after birth) and signs of life were there and so further management in incubator was possible Here birth time to be taken is immidiately after removal of baby from the incision regardless of clamping the cord. This baby must have a feeble resp. at birth due to prematurity and so was managed in incubator with Oxygen

..

Regards

Dr Sheetal

On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 10:36 PM, K. P. Naidu <konathalan wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear friends,Recorded Birth time, Reported time, rectified birth time etc., are various terms in use in astrology. But I am repeatedly telling " EXACT/CORRECT/TRUE BIRTH TIME " is known only to God. Let us admit that we, the humans, have our own limitations.

Regarding first breath/first cry concept of Birth Time, I posted, some time back in this forum,(sorry I have no record date of this msg), with no response from any member, my own case i.e., my  grand daughter wasprematuredly removed by caeserian operation and was immediately put under oxygen, kept in incubation for two days. what is her 1st breath (since no cry) ?   She could not take breath on her own for two days (under oxygen in incubation). Now which definition of Birth time suits in this case ?

What we know is a speck in the ocean of astrology science. Every one learns and  practices, adopts some theories/methods based on his convictions, developes some skills  attains some percentage of success in his predictions. Hiding this fact, people unnecessarily blaming or creticising others is not a healthy practice. No one is perfect to be franc. " I am OK, you are not OK " is the most commonly found weakness in our society. We should try to adopt " I am OK, you are OK " principle which will avoid all these problems.

Thanks & Regards, Naidu KP K. P. Naidu,Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta,VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.

--- On Sun, 20/12/09, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:

 

Punit Pandey <punitpRe: What is the correct birth time?

Sunday, 20 December, 2009, 3:46 PM

 

 

 

Dear Lajmi ji,

 

I have repeated it many times and now saying it the last time. We are working with the assumption that the recorded time, if not exact, is close enough to the actual time, whatever way we define that actual time. The method that hits consistently close to the recorded time gives good indication of accuracy of the method.

 

Allow us to conduct this exercise first and then you can raise questions. The current behavior of discouraging studies and diverting attention is not conductive for learning and not accepted.

 

Though, as mentioned in another email, if you have a better suggestion for birth time verification (not rectification) , I am more than willing to listen it.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

 

On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Mr.Naidu,

                        Isn't there a difference between " clinical death and physical death " ?

                        Similarly, is there a difference between " clinically alive " and " physically alive " ...?

                        Does K.P., define these ? Or Traditional Astrology differentiate these ? Or any other System of Astrology define them ?

                       These questions do not seem to have been addressed by anybody,including Punit....

                       Can any one throw some light on this issue...let us be clear on this issue,before we proceed to redefine " Correct TOB " ...

                       Will Punit like to enlighten us all, on this subject... ?

                       I hope we get some revealing/enlighten ing replies,in order to be very clear...on subjects like Births and Deaths...

 

                       With a lot of hope and expectations. ..

                       Yogesh Lajmi

                                               GOOD LUCK !

 

 

 

 

K. P. Naidu <konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in>

@gro ups.com

 

 

Thu, 17 December, 2009 11:57:17 AM Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Members,various methods of RBT are discussed by KP followers in this forum.  How to verify the so called  exact birth time as arrived by any of these RBT, is not discussed much. How to prove the exactness/truth of such a  Birth Time ?  Is it the actual time of 1st breath of the child - God only knows..

A Birth Time which satisfies all the life events of the native, as per KP rules,  I think, can be taken as correct Birth Time, whether such a Birth time satisfy the rules/equation of any RBT or not.  Further, predictions made on such a Birth Time, as per KP rules, if come true and successful, such a Birth Time can be accepted as correct/exact Birth Time.

Naidu KP K. P. Naidu,Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta,VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.--- On Thu, 17/12/09, Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.com Thursday, 17 December, 2009, 10:56 AM

 

 

Dear Suresh ji,

 

Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and that is the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind following, Shri KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work 'consistently' . Instead of blind following, we should verify what works well and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.

 

Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written. Which method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not practicable and logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should follow only one " stalwart " and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see the file section and you will find that the most promoted method by Lajmi ji (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected by a study. We should not close our eyes and blindly follow anything, it is what I think.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_suresh@ > wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear Punitji,Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP followers more.In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort should be instead on finding out if this particular method suggested and advocated by Lajmiji does give correct results and research if any should be on this line.

Suresh Hattangadi

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Sheetal ji,

Thank you for the detailed informative explanation.

Thanks and regards,

TW

 

, Sheetal <ratnamalag wrote:

>

> Dear Adith ji

>

> I am just making u aware of the medical part and controversies about the

> time of birth.

>

> The first breath of the child usually coincide with 1st cry of baby which in

> turn coincide with the physiological closure of blood vessels in umbilical

> cord making baby independent from mother biologically. Though actual

> anatomical closure of umbillical cord & vessels may take few hours to few

> days later. Even though if the cord is not clamped ( anatomical separation)

> after delivery of baby, usually and normally blood vessels contracts and

> blood flow stops( mother stops maintaining the baby) . As soon as the baby

> takes the first breath, Oxygen enters the lungs of baby with force and it

> opens up the lungs alveoli, which brings about so many immediate chemical/

> gaseous changes within seconds, in foetal circulation. This constrict the

> umbilical blood vessels automatically The forceful entry of air into hollow

> pipe of air passage produce a sound like cry. First cry may not produce

> strong sound but subsequent gushing of air brings about the successive cry

> sequence.

>

>

> During delivery, as soon as the baby's head is out of the entroitus, it is a

> routine practice to clean the baby's nose and mouth so that secretion should

> not be aspirated by the baby and that time only baby take the first breath.

> Many factors are responsible for stimulation of respiration eg skin contact

> with external stimulate, external air/atmosphere, touch etc. The entry of

> air through the respiratory passage produce first mild sound, many times

> followed by successive vigorous sounds which we call as CRY. During C.S. as

> soon as the baby's head is taken out of incision, there is a practice of

> cleaning the nose and mouth immediately for the same reason which coincide

> with the first breath/ cry and no body wait till whole body come out in

> normal or CS delivery( to avoid aspirations of the secretions on face.)

> There is usually no need of patting on back and all routinely. In medical

> practice, in past severing of the cord was noted as time of birth but now

> the first breath is noted as time of birth. But there are also difference of

> opinion about this. But correct time of birth is more important for

> astrologers so we have to think which time we should note as birth time.

>

> In breech delivery, breech and body of the baby is delivered first and

> baby's head comes later and in that case time noted is after delivery of the

> head only.If the head delivery is delayed due to any reason( impaction),

> then external stimuli stimulate the respiration while the head is inside the

> pelvis and baby may die due to aspiration of fluid with respiration before

> delivery of head. Here we should think what should be taken as exact time of

> birth?

>

> Sometimes baby doesn't breath even after complete delivery of the body and

> we have to resuscitate the baby to start respiration, so which time should

> we not here as birth time?We note here as soon as complete body is delivered

> whether child is alive or not.( as birth has happened)

>

> Mostly mistake is due to wrong time in watches in hospital but now a days

> due to belief in astrology by the pts and doctors, watches with correct time

> are used especially in private hospital. Commonly watch is hanged on the

> wall of labour room so that attending doctor is in habit of seeing the watch

> while cleaning the nostrils and lips of baby. But still there can be

> difference of few mts due to human error.

>

> Regards

> Dr Sheetal

>

> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 6:14 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <

> gkadithkasinath wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Dear sirs,

> >

> > Death is the last breath and Birth is the first Breath.

> > First breath happens when? May Dr. Luther or Dr. Sheetal can throw some

> > light on this.

> >

> > If it is only when the baby cries, some times, the baby does not cry

> > immediately even after the separation from the mother.

> > Sometimes the baby cries even before the separation.

> >

> > Or can we take as the time when the chord is cut and the link is

> > disconnected?

> >

> > This is one question.

> >

> > Another is the time difference between the clock of the operation theratre

> > or the doctors or the husband accompanying his wife and also the difference

> > between the said time and the Indian standard time.

> > Hence there are lot of chances for errors to happen.

> >

> > Regards

> > Adith

> >

> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmiwrote:

> >

> >>

> >>

> >> Dear Punit,

> >> The entire discussion which seems to have developed into

> >> an argument,sadly, arose on : " Whether the correct TOB is the

> >> Time of the First breath of a newborn... "

> >> The commonsense answer to this simple question is when it

> >> begins to breathe,and live on its own(we normally say a person is dead when

> >> he ceases to breathe,he ceases to live),but several people began to

give/add

> >> several different parameters to consider the Correct TOB...which you,in my

> >> opinion,in the name of " research " (needlessly) encouraged...and poor

Mr.VGR

> >> Pavan submitted a protocol/suggestion,to which you agreed immediately,in my

> >> considered opinion,in too much of a hurry...*That started the discussion

> >> in full swing,one thing leading to another... and that has brought us to

> >> this stage now...Isn't it ?*

> >> * This was,to put the record straight...*

> >> * *Yogesh Lajmi.

> >> * GOOD LUCK !*

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >> ** Punit Pandey <punitp

> >> *To:*

> >> *Sent:* Fri, 18 December, 2009 10:25:14 AM

> >>

> >> *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Dear Lajmi ji,

> >>

> >> See my response to you to your another post - http://groups. /

> >> group/k_p_ system/message/

30095</message/30095>.

> >> I pointed out connection between RP and Varahamihira's Nashta Jatakam in

> >> year 2003 (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/

254</message/254>)

> >> in this forum itself. *Now tell me, who is ignorant*?

> >>

> >> Please read my mail and you will find that I didn't say that method

> >> suggested by you is not practicable. It is said by Suresh ji that other

> >> methods were not practicable and hence I wanted to understand why so. I

> >> think Suresh ji is better person to answer your question of practicable as

> >> these are his thoughts.

> >>

> >> I would request you to stop such baseless talks and focus on the subject.

> >> I do not have any " angst " against anybody. I kept repeating - for me, all

KP

> >> authors are same and I believe in verification. Whether it is Great

> >> Varahamihira or Sage Parahshar or Shri KSK or Shri KSK's soon, I don't

> >> follow anybody blindly and it is what Shri KSK has taught us. Your attempt

> >> to make people follow KSK's sons blindly is simply against Shri KSK's

> >> teachings. You can not and you should not force other people to believe

what

> >> you believe. You are not a PR agency or publicity agency for a person or a

> >> publication and you should not behave like that. We are not here to sell

> >> products or promote something, but for KP study, research and development

> >> and we should focus on that.

> >>

> >> I would not have even approved your emails as those are unnecessarily

> >> disturbing nature. We are doing one important BTR methods verification

> >> process and your emails are diverting attention from the core subject. Your

> >> emails are approved just because I myself was the target of your attack and

> >> I thought I must answer all your questions in the forum so that everyone

> >> knows about it. But we will all agree that it is sheer waste of our time

and

> >> forum's time.

> >>

> >> Thanks & Regards,

> >>

> >> Punit Pandey

> >>

> >>

> >> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@

<yogeshlajmi

> >> > wrote:

> >>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Dear Punit,

> >>> Exactly which method suggested by me *is not

> >>> practicable, according to you...*

> >>> * *I have already,a few minutes ago,written to you

> >>> exposing your ignorance about what Varaha Mihira has exactly said about

" how

> >>> to erect Birth Chart of unknown TOB... "

> >>> Without being harsh,I must point out that the sooner you

> >>> realise that there is a *whole lot more* to Astrology,both *Traditional

> >>> as well as K.P System.,* than you think you know... the better it will

> >>> be for ALL of US....!

> >>> With best wishes,

> >>> Yogesh Lajmi.

> >>> GOOD LUCK !

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> ------------------------------

> >>> ** Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com <punitp>

> >>> *To:* @gro ups.com

> >>>

> >>> *Sent:* Thu, 17 December, 2009 10:56:49 AM

> >>> *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Dear Suresh ji,

> >>>

> >>> Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and that

> >>> is the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind

following,

> >>> Shri KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work

> >>> 'consistently'.. Instead of blind following, we should verify what works

> >>> well and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.

> >>>

> >>> Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written. Which

> >>> method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not

> >>> practicable and logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should follow

> >>> only one " stalwart " and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see the

> >>> file section and you will find that the most promoted method by Lajmi ji

> >>> (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected by a study. We should not close our eyes

> >>> and blindly follow anything, it is what I think.

> >>>

> >>> Thanks & Regards,

> >>>

> >>> Punit Pandey

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_suresh@

<hattangadi_suresh

> >>> > wrote:

> >>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> Dear Punitji,

> >>>> Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP

> >>>> followers more..In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is

> >>>> practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this matter

is

> >>>> like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a

particular

> >>>> method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and

> >>>> insist further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort should be

> >>>> instead on finding out if this particular method suggested and advocated

by

> >>>> Lajmiji does give correct results and research if any should be on this

> >>>> line.

> >>>> Suresh Hattangadi

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>

> >>> ------------------------------

> >>> See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out

now<http://au.rd./movies/mailtagline/*http://au.movies../sessi\

on-times/>

> >>> .

> >>>

> >>>

> >>

> >> ------------------------------

> >> See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out

now<http://au.rd./movies/mailtagline/*http://au.movies./sessio\

n-times/>

> >> .

> >>

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr. Sheetal Ji,Thanks for your valuable input on this.It shows the possibility wrong entry of birth time due to many factors. So BTR is required for most of the cases.With RegardsAdith

On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Sheetal <ratnamalag wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Adith ji

 

I am just making u aware of the medical part and controversies about the time of birth.

 

The first breath of the child usually coincide with 1st cry of baby which in turn coincide with the physiological closure of blood vessels in umbilical cord  making baby independent from mother biologically. Though actual anatomical closure of umbillical cord & vessels may take few hours to few days later. Even though if the cord is not clamped ( anatomical separation) after delivery of baby, usually and normally blood vessels contracts and blood flow stops( mother stops maintaining the baby) . As soon as the baby takes the first breath, Oxygen enters the lungs of baby with force and it opens up the lungs alveoli, which brings about so many immediate chemical/ gaseous changes within seconds, in foetal circulation. This constrict the umbilical blood vessels automatically The forceful entry of air into hollow pipe of air passage produce a sound like cry. First cry may not produce strong sound but subsequent gushing of air brings about the successive cry sequence.

 

 

During delivery, as soon as the baby's head is out of the entroitus, it is a routine practice to clean the baby's nose and mouth so that secretion should not be aspirated by the baby and that time only baby take the first breath. Many factors are responsible for stimulation of respiration eg skin contact with external stimulate, external air/atmosphere, touch etc. The entry of air through the respiratory passage produce first mild sound, many times followed by successive vigorous sounds which  we call as CRY. During C.S. as soon as the baby's head is taken out of incision, there is a practice of cleaning the nose and mouth immediately for the same reason which coincide with the first breath/ cry and no body wait till whole body come out in normal or CS delivery( to avoid aspirations of the secretions on face.) There is usually no need of patting on back and all routinely. In medical practice, in past severing of the cord was noted as time of birth but now the first breath is noted as time of birth. But there are also difference of opinion about this. But correct time of birth is more important for astrologers so we have to think which time we should note as birth time.

 

In breech delivery, breech and body of the baby is delivered first and baby's head comes later and in that case time noted is after delivery of the head only.If the head delivery is delayed due to any reason( impaction), then external stimuli stimulate the respiration while the head is inside the pelvis and baby may die due to aspiration of fluid with respiration before delivery of head. Here we should think what should be taken as exact time of birth?

 

Sometimes baby doesn't breath even after complete delivery of the body and we have to resuscitate the baby to start respiration, so which time should we not here as birth time?We note here as soon as complete body is delivered whether child is alive or not.( as birth has happened)

 

Mostly mistake is due to wrong time in watches in hospital but now a days due to belief in astrology by the pts and doctors, watches with correct time are used especially in private hospital. Commonly watch is hanged on the wall of labour room so that attending doctor is in habit of seeing the watch while cleaning the nostrils and lips of baby. But still there can be difference of few mts due to human error.

 

Regards

Dr Sheetal

On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 6:14 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear sirs,Death is the last breath and Birth is the first Breath.First breath happens when? May Dr. Luther or Dr. Sheetal can throw some light on this.If it is only when the baby cries, some times, the baby does not cry immediately even after the separation from the mother.

Sometimes the baby cries even before the separation.Or can we take as the time when the chord is cut and the link is disconnected?This is one question.Another is the time difference between the clock of the operation theratre or the doctors or the husband accompanying his wife and also the difference between the said time and the Indian standard time.

Hence there are lot of chances for errors to happen.RegardsAdith

 

 

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Punit,

                 The entire discussion which seems to have developed into an argument,sadly, arose on          :   " Whether the  correct TOB is the Time of the First breath of a newborn... "

                 The commonsense answer to this simple question is when it begins to breathe,and live on its own(we normally say a person is dead when he ceases to breathe,he ceases to live),but several people began to give/add several  different parameters to consider the Correct TOB...which you,in my opinion,in the name of  " research " (needlessly) encouraged...and poor Mr.VGR Pavan submitted a protocol/suggestion,to which you agreed immediately,in my considered opinion,in too much of a hurry...That started the discussion in full swing,one thing leading to another... and that has brought us to this stage now...Isn't it ?

                  This was,to put the record straight...

                  Yogesh Lajmi.

                                             GOOD LUCK !

 

 

 

 

Punit Pandey <punitp

Fri, 18 December, 2009 10:25:14 AM Re: What is the correct birth time? 

 

Dear Lajmi ji,

 

 

See my response to you to your another post - http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30095. I pointed out connection between RP and Varahamihira's Nashta Jatakam in year 2003 (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 254) in this forum itself. Now tell me, who is ignorant?

 

Please read my mail and you will find that I didn't say that method suggested by you is not practicable. It is said by Suresh ji that other methods were not practicable and hence I wanted to understand why so. I think Suresh ji is better person to answer your question of practicable as these are his thoughts.

 

I would request you to stop such baseless talks and focus on the subject. I do not have any " angst " against anybody. I kept repeating - for me, all KP authors are same and I believe in verification. Whether it is Great Varahamihira or Sage Parahshar or Shri KSK or Shri KSK's soon, I don't follow anybody blindly and it is what Shri KSK has taught us. Your attempt to make people follow KSK's sons blindly is simply against Shri KSK's teachings. You can not and you should not force other people to believe what you believe. You are not a PR agency or publicity agency for a person or a publication and you should not behave like that. We are not here to sell products or promote something, but for KP study, research and development and we should focus on that.

 

I would not have even approved your emails as those are unnecessarily disturbing nature. We are doing one important BTR methods verification process and your emails are diverting attention from the core subject. Your emails are approved just because I myself was the target of your attack and I thought I must answer all your questions in the forum so that everyone knows about it. But we will all agree that it is sheer waste of our time and forum's time.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

 

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Punit,

                Exactly which method suggested by me is not practicable, according to you...

                I have already,a few minutes ago,written to you exposing your ignorance about what Varaha Mihira has exactly said about " how to erect Birth Chart of unknown TOB... "

               Without being harsh,I must point out that the sooner you realise that there is a whole lot more to Astrology,both Traditional as well as K.P System., than you think you know... the better it will be for ALL of US....!

               With best wishes,

               Yogesh Lajmi.

                                             GOOD LUCK !

             

 

 

 

 

 

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Thu, 17 December, 2009 10:56:49 AMRe: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

Dear Suresh ji,

 

 

Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and that is the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind following, Shri KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work 'consistently'.. Instead of blind following, we should verify what works well and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.

 

Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written. Which method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not practicable and logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should follow only one " stalwart " and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see the file section and you will find that the most promoted method by Lajmi ji (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected by a study. We should not close our eyes and blindly follow anything, it is what I think.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_suresh@ > wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear Punitji,Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP followers more..In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort should be instead on finding out if this particular method suggested and advocated by Lajmiji does give correct results and research if any should be on this line.

Suresh Hattangadi

 

 

 

 

 

 

See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.

 

 

 

 

 

See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.

[Guest guest]

Dear Adith ji

 

I have fergotten to write one imp point that there is not much  difference between the first breath and complete delivery of bady. Usually whole body delivers within a mt time after the first breath in both normal as well as CS delivery. Wrong birth time is becos of wrong notification so we have to correct/varify it.

 

 Regards

Dr Sheetal

 

 

On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Sheetal <ratnamalag wrote:

 

Dear Adith ji

 

I am just making u aware of the medical part and controversies about the time of birth.

 

The first breath of the child usually coincide with 1st cry of baby which in turn coincide with the physiological closure of blood vessels in umbilical cord  making baby independent from mother biologically. Though actual anatomical closure of umbillical cord & vessels may take few hours to few days later. Even though if the cord is not clamped ( anatomical separation) after delivery of baby, usually and normally blood vessels contracts and blood flow stops( mother stops maintaining the baby) . As soon as the baby takes the first breath, Oxygen enters the lungs of baby with force and it opens up the lungs alveoli, which brings about so many immediate chemical/ gaseous changes within seconds, in foetal circulation. This constrict the umbilical blood vessels automatically The forceful entry of air into hollow pipe of air passage produce a sound like cry. First cry may not produce strong sound but subsequent gushing of air brings about the successive cry sequence.

 

 

During delivery, as soon as the baby's head is out of the entroitus, it is a routine practice to clean the baby's nose and mouth so that secretion should not be aspirated by the baby and that time only baby take the first breath. Many factors are responsible for stimulation of respiration eg skin contact with external stimulate, external air/atmosphere, touch etc. The entry of air through the respiratory passage produce first mild sound, many times followed by successive vigorous sounds which  we call as CRY. During C.S. as soon as the baby's head is taken out of incision, there is a practice of cleaning the nose and mouth immediately for the same reason which coincide with the first breath/ cry and no body wait till whole body come out in normal or CS delivery( to avoid aspirations of the secretions on face.) There is usually no need of patting on back and all routinely. In medical practice, in past severing of the cord was noted as time of birth but now the first breath is noted as time of birth. But there are also difference of opinion about this. But correct time of birth is more important for astrologers so we have to think which time we should note as birth time.

 

In breech delivery, breech and body of the baby is delivered first and baby's head comes later and in that case time noted is after delivery of the head only.If the head delivery is delayed due to any reason( impaction), then external stimuli stimulate the respiration while the head is inside the pelvis and baby may die due to aspiration of fluid with respiration before delivery of head. Here we should think what should be taken as exact time of birth?

 

Sometimes baby doesn't breath even after complete delivery of the body and we have to resuscitate the baby to start respiration, so which time should we not here as birth time?We note here as soon as complete body is delivered whether child is alive or not.( as birth has happened)

 

Mostly mistake is due to wrong time in watches in hospital but now a days due to belief in astrology by the pts and doctors, watches with correct time are used especially in private hospital. Commonly watch is hanged on the wall of labour room so that attending doctor is in habit of seeing the watch while cleaning the nostrils and lips of baby. But still there can be difference of few mts due to human error.

 

Regards

Dr Sheetal

 

 

 

On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 6:14 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear sirs,Death is the last breath and Birth is the first Breath.First breath happens when? May Dr. Luther or Dr. Sheetal can throw some light on this.If it is only when the baby cries, some times, the baby does not cry immediately even after the separation from the mother.

Sometimes the baby cries even before the separation.Or can we take as the time when the chord is cut and the link is disconnected?This is one question.Another is the time difference between the clock of the operation theratre or the doctors or the husband accompanying his wife and also the difference between the said time and the Indian standard time.

Hence there are lot of chances for errors to happen.RegardsAdith

 

 

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Punit,

                 The entire discussion which seems to have developed into an argument,sadly, arose on          :   " Whether the  correct TOB is the Time of the First breath of a newborn... "

                 The commonsense answer to this simple question is when it begins to breathe,and live on its own(we normally say a person is dead when he ceases to breathe,he ceases to live),but several people began to give/add several  different parameters to consider the Correct TOB...which you,in my opinion,in the name of  " research " (needlessly) encouraged...and poor Mr.VGR Pavan submitted a protocol/suggestion,to which you agreed immediately,in my considered opinion,in too much of a hurry...That started the discussion in full swing,one thing leading to another... and that has brought us to this stage now...Isn't it ?

                  This was,to put the record straight...

                  Yogesh Lajmi.

                                             GOOD LUCK !

 

 

 

 

Punit Pandey <punitp

Fri, 18 December, 2009 10:25:14 AM Re: What is the correct birth time? 

 

Dear Lajmi ji,

 

 

See my response to you to your another post - http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30095. I pointed out connection between RP and Varahamihira's Nashta Jatakam in year 2003 (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 254) in this forum itself. Now tell me, who is ignorant?

 

Please read my mail and you will find that I didn't say that method suggested by you is not practicable. It is said by Suresh ji that other methods were not practicable and hence I wanted to understand why so. I think Suresh ji is better person to answer your question of practicable as these are his thoughts.

 

I would request you to stop such baseless talks and focus on the subject. I do not have any " angst " against anybody. I kept repeating - for me, all KP authors are same and I believe in verification. Whether it is Great Varahamihira or Sage Parahshar or Shri KSK or Shri KSK's soon, I don't follow anybody blindly and it is what Shri KSK has taught us. Your attempt to make people follow KSK's sons blindly is simply against Shri KSK's teachings. You can not and you should not force other people to believe what you believe. You are not a PR agency or publicity agency for a person or a publication and you should not behave like that. We are not here to sell products or promote something, but for KP study, research and development and we should focus on that.

 

I would not have even approved your emails as those are unnecessarily disturbing nature. We are doing one important BTR methods verification process and your emails are diverting attention from the core subject. Your emails are approved just because I myself was the target of your attack and I thought I must answer all your questions in the forum so that everyone knows about it. But we will all agree that it is sheer waste of our time and forum's time.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

 

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Punit,

                Exactly which method suggested by me is not practicable, according to you...

                I have already,a few minutes ago,written to you exposing your ignorance about what Varaha Mihira has exactly said about " how to erect Birth Chart of unknown TOB... "

               Without being harsh,I must point out that the sooner you realise that there is a whole lot more to Astrology,both Traditional as well as K.P System., than you think you know... the better it will be for ALL of US....!

               With best wishes,

               Yogesh Lajmi.

                                             GOOD LUCK !

             

 

 

 

 

 

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Thu, 17 December, 2009 10:56:49 AMRe: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

Dear Suresh ji,

 

 

Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and that is the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind following, Shri KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work 'consistently'.. Instead of blind following, we should verify what works well and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.

 

Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written. Which method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not practicable and logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should follow only one " stalwart " and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see the file section and you will find that the most promoted method by Lajmi ji (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected by a study. We should not close our eyes and blindly follow anything, it is what I think.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_suresh@ > wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear Punitji,Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP followers more..In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort should be instead on finding out if this particular method suggested and advocated by Lajmiji does give correct results and research if any should be on this line.

Suresh Hattangadi

 

 

 

 

 

 

See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.

 

 

 

 

 

See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends,

The reearch can be done putting aside the lengthy discussion as usually done

whenever a research topic is suggested. The finding should be put up in straight

language, not like RPs of the most of the astrologers during BTR were almost

matching and only the interpretation by the astrologers did vary. For instance,

in the attempt 1, the RPs, consequently rectified TOBs are different depending

on the strologer, time and space, and also urge, which is so by common sense and

experience of some astrologers.

Thanks and regards,

TW

 

, " adith kasinath.g.k " <gkadithkasinath

wrote:

>

> Dear Friends,

>

> A True real KP Astrologer may not even need the time period (9.03 to 9.08

> am). He can find the actual time without that.!

>

> But who knows which is correct.

>

> Now the discussion was to ascertain the BRT with the so called actual birth

> time. Both may or may not be true.

>

> As Senthil ji said, RPs of the most of the astrologers during BTR were

> almost matching and only the interpretation by the astrologers did vary. So

> so many options.

>

> So planets help and we to work hard to find the truth which is very tough.

>

> Because, for a known answers in a quiz, we all could not give the right

> answers many times and hardly few hit the bulls eye. because it needs lot of

> excercise even for a good real KP astrologer.

>

> So you can not just imagine that the time rectified must be correct always

> for an unknown truth.

>

> It needs lot of research in all aspects scientifically and astrologically.

>

> For a grown up man, once BRT is done with the help of RPs and other

> procedures , it can be verified with his past events which is also

> sometimes difficult as many choices will match to the event.

>

> Regards

> Adith

>

>

> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotishwrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Dear friends.

> >

> > Lets not waste time in such discussions which does not nehove for a

> > good KP Astrologer.

> >

> > The Birth time is exactly when the support system from mother is removed

> > and the child begins to live on its own. This can only happen when the

> > child

> > begins to breathe on its own. This does not necessarily imply that the

> > child

> > will cry with its first breath. So the actual time of Birth is when the

> > forces and

> > magnetism, vibrationary waves of the Cosmic rays of the 9 Planets get

> > infused

> > in the body of the child, which can only happen with the first breath and

> > not

> > necessarily with the cutting of the chord or the first cry which may not

> > always

> > co-incide with the first breath. This is commonsense.

> >

> > Now the question is whatever may be the right time of Birth , I mean

> > whatever

> > may be the parameters, how is it possible to determine the right time of

> > Birth

> > for Horoscope Calculation and study purposes ?

> >

> > I am giving below the Birth particulars of my own Grand daughter who was

> > born recently.

> >

> > We have two times for Time of Birth. one was when my wife heard the

> > first cry from the labour room and another which the Nurse inside the

> > room, said was the correct time . Do You think I would believe the

> > Nurse ? No. Do you think I would believe my wife ? No. Do

> > You think I would believe their watches as right ? No.

> >

> > Today I had to give the Pundit, the Birth particulars so that he could make

> > the Birth Chart manually in the way its normally made (Sans Computer).

> >

> > Please tell me what time do You think i gave the Pundit ? And why ?

> > I myself went for the rectification and RP's were taken for the time

> >

> > 19 Dec 2009 Saturday' 18.51.10 Jaipur.

> >

> > I have been given two times for my grand daughter as her time of Birth.

> > One from my wife, and other by the Nurse .

> >

> > Date of Birth - 9th November 2009, Place - Jaipur

> > Recorded Times - 9.03am and 9.08 am.

> >

> > Now what time do you think I decided to give the Pundit after reckoning

> > with the RP's at time of judgement ?

> >

> > And once you decide this, then what does it matter whether this is

> > the time of the first breath or the the first cry or the time when the

> > chord was cut ?????? Does this matter if You are really a true KP

> > Astrologer ? Why do you need such inputs ? Why cant you

> > do the rectification yourself ?

> >

> > Now please answer me, what birth of time do you think I asked the

> > Punditji to make the Horoscope for, and Why ?

> >

> > And once you decide the Actual Birth time, what do you think happened

> > at your " arrived at Birth time " . Did the baby cry first ? Did she breathe

> > first ? Or was the chord cut at your arrived Birth of time.

> >

> > If You cannot answer the second part, do not bother, for this does not

> > bother me. I should be able to rectify the " assumed Birth time " is what

> > should bother me as an KP Astrologer. Other theories should not take

> > my time or efforts or energies. I am only concerned with the right Time

> > of Birth whatever its parameters may be.

> >

> > regards/Bhaskar.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , " adith kasinath.g.k " <gkadithkasinath@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear sirs,

> > >

> > > Death is the last breath and Birth is the first Breath.

> > > First breath happens when? May Dr. Luther or Dr. Sheetal can throw some

> > > light on this.

> > >

> > > If it is only when the baby cries, some times, the baby does not cry

> > > immediately even after the separation from the mother.

> > > Sometimes the baby cries even before the separation.

> > >

> > > Or can we take as the time when the chord is cut and the link is

> > > disconnected?

> > >

> > > This is one question.

> > >

> > > Another is the time difference between the clock of the operation

> > theratre

> > > or the doctors or the husband accompanying his wife and also the

> > difference

> > > between the said time and the Indian standard time.

> > > Hence there are lot of chances for errors to happen.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > > Adith

> > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Punit,

> > > > The entire discussion which seems to have developed into

> > > > an argument,sadly, arose on : " Whether the correct TOB is the

> > > > Time of the First breath of a newborn... "

> > > > The commonsense answer to this simple question is when it

> > > > begins to breathe,and live on its own(we normally say a person is dead

> > when

> > > > he ceases to breathe,he ceases to live),but several people began to

> > give/add

> > > > several different parameters to consider the Correct TOB...which you,in

> > my

> > > > opinion,in the name of " research " (needlessly) encouraged...and poor

> > Mr.VGR

> > > > Pavan submitted a protocol/suggestion,to which you agreed

> > immediately,in my

> > > > considered opinion,in too much of a hurry...*That started the

> > discussion

> > > > in full swing,one thing leading to another... and that has brought us

> > to

> > > > this stage now...Isn't it ?*

> > > > * This was,to put the record straight...*

> > > > * *Yogesh Lajmi.

> > > > * GOOD LUCK !*

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------

> > > > ** Punit Pandey punitp@

> > > > *To:*

> >

> > > > *Sent:* Fri, 18 December, 2009 10:25:14 AM

> > > >

> > > > *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Lajmi ji,

> > > >

> > > > See my response to you to your another post - http://groups.

> > /

> > > > group/k_p_ system/message/ 30095<

> > /message/30095>.

> >

> > > > I pointed out connection between RP and Varahamihira's Nashta Jatakam

> > in

> > > > year 2003 (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 254<

> > /message/254>)

> >

> > > > in this forum itself. *Now tell me, who is ignorant*?

> > > >

> > > > Please read my mail and you will find that I didn't say that method

> > > > suggested by you is not practicable. It is said by Suresh ji that other

> > > > methods were not practicable and hence I wanted to understand why so. I

> > > > think Suresh ji is better person to answer your question of practicable

> > as

> > > > these are his thoughts.

> > > >

> > > > I would request you to stop such baseless talks and focus on the

> > subject. I

> > > > do not have any " angst " against anybody. I kept repeating - for me, all

> > KP

> > > > authors are same and I believe in verification. Whether it is Great

> > > > Varahamihira or Sage Parahshar or Shri KSK or Shri KSK's soon, I don't

> > > > follow anybody blindly and it is what Shri KSK has taught us. Your

> > attempt

> > > > to make people follow KSK's sons blindly is simply against Shri KSK's

> > > > teachings. You can not and you should not force other people to believe

> > what

> > > > you believe. You are not a PR agency or publicity agency for a person

> > or a

> > > > publication and you should not behave like that. We are not here to

> > sell

> > > > products or promote something, but for KP study, research and

> > development

> > > > and we should focus on that.

> > > >

> > > > I would not have even approved your emails as those are unnecessarily

> > > > disturbing nature. We are doing one important BTR methods verification

> > > > process and your emails are diverting attention from the core subject.

> > Your

> > > > emails are approved just because I myself was the target of your attack

> > and

> > > > I thought I must answer all your questions in the forum so that

> > everyone

> > > > knows about it. But we will all agree that it is sheer waste of our

> > time and

> > > > forum's time.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks & Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Punit Pandey

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@

> > ...

> >

> > > > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> Dear Punit,

> > > >> Exactly which method suggested by me *is not practicable,according to

> > you...

> > > >> *

> > > >> * *I have already,a few minutes ago,written to you

> > > >> exposing your ignorance about what Varaha Mihira has exactly said

> > about " how

> > > >> to erect Birth Chart of unknown TOB... "

> > > >> Without being harsh,I must point out that the sooner you

> > > >> realise that there is a *whole lot more* to Astrology,both

> > *Traditional

> > > >> as well as K.P System.,* than you think you know... the better it will

> > be

> > > >> for ALL of US....!

> > > >> With best wishes,

> > > >> Yogesh Lajmi.

> > > >> GOOD LUCK !

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> ------------------------------

> > > >> ** Punit Pandey punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com punitp@>

> > > >> *To:* @gro ups.com

> > > >>

> > > >> *Sent:* Thu, 17 December, 2009 10:56:49 AM

> >

> > > >> *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> Dear Suresh ji,

> > > >>

> > > >> Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and

> > that

> > > >> is the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind

> > following,

> > > >> Shri KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work

> > > >> 'consistently'.. Instead of blind following, we should verify what

> > works

> > > >> well and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.

> > > >>

> > > >> Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written. Which

> > > >> method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not

> > > >> practicable and logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should

> > follow

> > > >> only one " stalwart " and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see

> > the

> > > >> file section and you will find that the most promoted method by Lajmi

> > ji

> > > >> (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected by a study. We should not close our

> > eyes

> > > >> and blindly follow anything, it is what I think.

> > > >>

> > > >> Thanks & Regards,

> > > >>

> > > >> Punit Pandey

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_suresh_suresh@

> > ...

> >

> > > >> > wrote:

> > > >>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Dear Punitji,

> > > >>> Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP

> > > >>> followers more..In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji

> > is

> > > >>> practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this

> > matter is

> > > >>> like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a

> > particular

> > > >>> method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that

> > and

> > > >>> insist further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort

> > should be

> > > >>> instead on finding out if this particular method suggested and

> > advocated by

> > > >>> Lajmiji does give correct results and research if any should be on

> > this

> > > >>> line.

> > > >>> Suresh Hattangadi

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>

> > > >> ------------------------------

> > > >> See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now<

> >

http://au.rd./movies/mailtagline/*http://au.movies../session-t\

imes/

> > >

> > > >> .

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------

> > > > See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now<

> >

http://au.rd./movies/mailtagline/*http://au.movies./session-ti\

mes/

> > >

> > > > .

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear TW,

Your letter is discussing totally irrelevant data,what the Baptism record says, is based on the information supplied by the parents,and not GOD ALMIGHTY... or Sunnat got to do with the astrologically correct Time of Birth,the reliability of both is doubtful...

In the Punjab and in Pakistan the Birth day used to be recorded as the day on which mundan is performed,anywhere between the real age is 1 to 3 or even 4 years... !

We are discussing K.P., not religious customs...which are what they are known to be...!

And for your information, our Guruji has recommended the method I have suggested,

and has been found to be very accurate by most K.P. followers,except Punit,you and your supporters in this column...

After my letter to Punit,based on this,he is going to check and verify whether this method is successful or not and he will be using the Birth Charts of persons and friends he know details about by using the K.P. Rectification method...

Let us await his observations...

Till then let us discuss the new topic I have begun and suggested we take up...

"How to assess the the quantum of the benefits,a 'benefic' planet will bestow upon the native of a chart under scrutiny..."

Surely this discussion will be very beneficial to all practitioners of K.P.,to give a more accurate assessment of the quantum of benefits...etc.

With best wishes,

Yogesh Lajmi

GOOD LUCK !

 

 

 

 

TW <tw853 Sent: Mon, 21 December, 2009 4:21:17 AM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Dear Friends,1."AA --- Accurate data as recorded by the family or state. This includes BC (birth certificate) , and BR (birth record), that which is not an official document but a quote of the birth record from the Registrar or Bureau of Records, the baptismal certificate, family Bible, or baby book. These data reflect the best available accuracy." 2. As the astrological research computer program is not yet available, we apply a SIMPLE METHOD in our research study by checking chart by chart, as done by our Gurus and Church of Light (Astrology, 30 Years Research), whether each of the following definitions is met (tallied) or not, without any assumption or anything else.Moon Star = ASC Sub Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 16092?threaded= 1 & l=1

Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.doc (File section)Explanation of the Test Results3. In Astrological Statistical Research, there are the simple method and the proper statistical analysis, as mention in the point 1 and 2 of:A Study of 100 Prisoner Charts.doc (File section)Thanks and regards,TW@gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Suprakash ji,> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and> better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you> want to do it?> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please> suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of>

connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your> suggestions incorporated.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <> suprakash.ghosh@ ...> wrote:> > >> >> > Dear Punit ji> >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the> > basic conditions assumed during the test.> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the> > genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been> > analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is> > that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between> > moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt> >

conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way?> >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.> >> > Regards> >> > Suprakash> >> >> >> > -> > ** Punit Pandey <punitp> > *To:* @gro ups.com> > *Sent:* Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> > Dear Suresh ji,> >> > Please see your post (> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -> >> > 1. "In actual

practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as> > well as logical."> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the> > wheel."> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited> > and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research> > on the subject is surprising."> >> > *Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and the study> > found that the method doesn't work.* Please see the file section and you> > can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study> > found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. *That is the reason I say> > that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.* Your opinion (point> > no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them "blindly"> > which

also means following incorrect methods.> >> > *What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of> > available methods.* People who are marketing their methods for a long> > time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may> > not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of> > KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating> > in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum> > loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must> > participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we> > will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win.> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> > On Thu, Dec 17,

2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@.. .>wrote:> >> >>> >>> >> Dear Punitji,> >> I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not> >> read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But> >> again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years> >> experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his> >> experience..My only point is research done in so many directions may not be> >> conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently> >> by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post.> >> Suresh Hattangadi> >>> >>> > > >>

 

See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr. Sheetal, I agree with your statement.When I was accompanying my wife at her delivery in the labour (as being a Vet., basically) room, I noticed my last baby gave his first cry as soon as the doctor takes out and just held in her palms. The chord was not cut.

My 2nd baby was just reacting to the wiping up by the doctor but no sound was audible. But the mouth was open and trying to cry. Hence once the baby comes out when the outside cosmic rays reacts to the baby's body, the stimulation starts.

RegardsAdithOn Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Sheetal <ratnamalag wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Adith ji

 

I have fergotten to write one imp point that there is not much  difference between the first breath and complete delivery of bady. Usually whole body delivers within a mt time after the first breath in both normal as well as CS delivery. Wrong birth time is becos of wrong notification so we have to correct/varify it.

 

 Regards

Dr Sheetal

 

 

On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Sheetal <ratnamalag wrote:

 

Dear Adith ji

 

I am just making u aware of the medical part and controversies about the time of birth.

 

The first breath of the child usually coincide with 1st cry of baby which in turn coincide with the physiological closure of blood vessels in umbilical cord  making baby independent from mother biologically. Though actual anatomical closure of umbillical cord & vessels may take few hours to few days later. Even though if the cord is not clamped ( anatomical separation) after delivery of baby, usually and normally blood vessels contracts and blood flow stops( mother stops maintaining the baby) . As soon as the baby takes the first breath, Oxygen enters the lungs of baby with force and it opens up the lungs alveoli, which brings about so many immediate chemical/ gaseous changes within seconds, in foetal circulation. This constrict the umbilical blood vessels automatically The forceful entry of air into hollow pipe of air passage produce a sound like cry. First cry may not produce strong sound but subsequent gushing of air brings about the successive cry sequence.

 

 

During delivery, as soon as the baby's head is out of the entroitus, it is a routine practice to clean the baby's nose and mouth so that secretion should not be aspirated by the baby and that time only baby take the first breath. Many factors are responsible for stimulation of respiration eg skin contact with external stimulate, external air/atmosphere, touch etc. The entry of air through the respiratory passage produce first mild sound, many times followed by successive vigorous sounds which  we call as CRY. During C.S. as soon as the baby's head is taken out of incision, there is a practice of cleaning the nose and mouth immediately for the same reason which coincide with the first breath/ cry and no body wait till whole body come out in normal or CS delivery( to avoid aspirations of the secretions on face.) There is usually no need of patting on back and all routinely. In medical practice, in past severing of the cord was noted as time of birth but now the first breath is noted as time of birth. But there are also difference of opinion about this. But correct time of birth is more important for astrologers so we have to think which time we should note as birth time.

 

In breech delivery, breech and body of the baby is delivered first and baby's head comes later and in that case time noted is after delivery of the head only.If the head delivery is delayed due to any reason( impaction), then external stimuli stimulate the respiration while the head is inside the pelvis and baby may die due to aspiration of fluid with respiration before delivery of head. Here we should think what should be taken as exact time of birth?

 

Sometimes baby doesn't breath even after complete delivery of the body and we have to resuscitate the baby to start respiration, so which time should we not here as birth time?We note here as soon as complete body is delivered whether child is alive or not.( as birth has happened)

 

Mostly mistake is due to wrong time in watches in hospital but now a days due to belief in astrology by the pts and doctors, watches with correct time are used especially in private hospital. Commonly watch is hanged on the wall of labour room so that attending doctor is in habit of seeing the watch while cleaning the nostrils and lips of baby. But still there can be difference of few mts due to human error.

 

Regards

Dr Sheetal

 

 

 

On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 6:14 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear sirs,Death is the last breath and Birth is the first Breath.First breath happens when? May Dr. Luther or Dr. Sheetal can throw some light on this.If it is only when the baby cries, some times, the baby does not cry immediately even after the separation from the mother.

Sometimes the baby cries even before the separation.Or can we take as the time when the chord is cut and the link is disconnected?This is one question.Another is the time difference between the clock of the operation theratre or the doctors or the husband accompanying his wife and also the difference between the said time and the Indian standard time.

Hence there are lot of chances for errors to happen.RegardsAdith

 

 

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Punit,

                 The entire discussion which seems to have developed into an argument,sadly, arose on          :   " Whether the  correct TOB is the Time of the First breath of a newborn... "

                 The commonsense answer to this simple question is when it begins to breathe,and live on its own(we normally say a person is dead when he ceases to breathe,he ceases to live),but several people began to give/add several  different parameters to consider the Correct TOB...which you,in my opinion,in the name of  " research " (needlessly) encouraged...and poor Mr.VGR Pavan submitted a protocol/suggestion,to which you agreed immediately,in my considered opinion,in too much of a hurry...That started the discussion in full swing,one thing leading to another... and that has brought us to this stage now...Isn't it ?

                  This was,to put the record straight...

                  Yogesh Lajmi.

                                             GOOD LUCK !

 

 

 

 

Punit Pandey <punitp

Fri, 18 December, 2009 10:25:14 AM Re: What is the correct birth time? 

 

Dear Lajmi ji,

 

 

See my response to you to your another post - http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30095. I pointed out connection between RP and Varahamihira's Nashta Jatakam in year 2003 (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 254) in this forum itself. Now tell me, who is ignorant?

 

Please read my mail and you will find that I didn't say that method suggested by you is not practicable. It is said by Suresh ji that other methods were not practicable and hence I wanted to understand why so. I think Suresh ji is better person to answer your question of practicable as these are his thoughts.

 

I would request you to stop such baseless talks and focus on the subject. I do not have any " angst " against anybody. I kept repeating - for me, all KP authors are same and I believe in verification. Whether it is Great Varahamihira or Sage Parahshar or Shri KSK or Shri KSK's soon, I don't follow anybody blindly and it is what Shri KSK has taught us. Your attempt to make people follow KSK's sons blindly is simply against Shri KSK's teachings. You can not and you should not force other people to believe what you believe. You are not a PR agency or publicity agency for a person or a publication and you should not behave like that. We are not here to sell products or promote something, but for KP study, research and development and we should focus on that.

 

I would not have even approved your emails as those are unnecessarily disturbing nature. We are doing one important BTR methods verification process and your emails are diverting attention from the core subject. Your emails are approved just because I myself was the target of your attack and I thought I must answer all your questions in the forum so that everyone knows about it. But we will all agree that it is sheer waste of our time and forum's time.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

 

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Punit,

                Exactly which method suggested by me is not practicable, according to you...

                I have already,a few minutes ago,written to you exposing your ignorance about what Varaha Mihira has exactly said about " how to erect Birth Chart of unknown TOB... "

               Without being harsh,I must point out that the sooner you realise that there is a whole lot more to Astrology,both Traditional as well as K.P System., than you think you know... the better it will be for ALL of US....!

               With best wishes,

               Yogesh Lajmi.

                                             GOOD LUCK !

             

 

 

 

 

 

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Thu, 17 December, 2009 10:56:49 AMRe: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

Dear Suresh ji,

 

 

Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and that is the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind following, Shri KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work 'consistently'.. Instead of blind following, we should verify what works well and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.

 

Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written. Which method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not practicable and logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should follow only one " stalwart " and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see the file section and you will find that the most promoted method by Lajmi ji (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected by a study. We should not close our eyes and blindly follow anything, it is what I think.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_suresh@ > wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear Punitji,Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP followers more..In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort should be instead on finding out if this particular method suggested and advocated by Lajmiji does give correct results and research if any should be on this line.

Suresh Hattangadi

 

 

 

 

 

 

See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.

 

 

 

 

 

See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.

[Guest guest]

Dear Lajmi,

 

I will not accept the RULE of Asc Sub = Moon STAR & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub even it is recommended by Prof. KSK.

 

I will say it is a MEANING LESS, NO LOGIC & WASTE RULE ONLY. I have DISPROVED it and many members in the year 2005-2006 have also DISPROVED.

 

Kindly note that i don't have any personal feelings on anyone including you except the RULE (Asc Sub= Moob Star & Asc Sub-Sub= Moon Sub).

 

GOOD LUCK!

 

D.Senthil

--- On Mon, 12/21/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote:

Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmiRe: Re: What is the correct birth time? Cc: "tw853" <tw853Monday, December 21, 2009, 6:42 AM

 

 

Dear TW,

Your letter is discussing totally irrelevant data,what the Baptism record says, is based on the information supplied by the parents,and not GOD ALMIGHTY... or Sunnat got to do with the astrologically correct Time of Birth,the reliability of both is doubtful...

In the Punjab and in Pakistan the Birth day used to be recorded as the day on which mundan is performed,anywhere between the real age is 1 to 3 or even 4 years... !

We are discussing K.P., not religious customs...which are what they are known to be...!

And for your information, our Guruji has recommended the method I have suggested,

and has been found to be very accurate by most K.P. followers,except Punit,you and your supporters in this column...

After my letter to Punit,based on this,he is going to check and verify whether this method is successful or not and he will be using the Birth Charts of persons and friends he know details about by using the K.P. Rectification method...

Let us await his observations. ..

Till then let us discuss the new topic I have begun and suggested we take up...

"How to assess the the quantum of the benefits,a 'benefic' planet will bestow upon the native of a chart under scrutiny..."

Surely this discussion will be very beneficial to all practitioners of K.P.,to give a more accurate assessment of the quantum of benefits...etc.

With best wishes,

Yogesh Lajmi

GOOD LUCK !

 

 

 

 

TW <tw853 >@gro ups.comMon, 21 December, 2009 4:21:17 AM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Dear Friends,1."AA --- Accurate data as recorded by the family or state. This includes BC (birth certificate) , and BR (birth record), that which is not an official document but a quote of the birth record from the Registrar or Bureau of Records, the baptismal certificate, family Bible, or baby book. These data reflect the best available accuracy." 2. As the astrological research computer program is not yet available, we apply a SIMPLE METHOD in our research study by checking chart by chart, as done by our Gurus and Church of Light (Astrology, 30 Years Research), whether each of the following definitions is met (tallied) or not, without any assumption or anything else.Moon Star = ASC Sub Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 16092?threaded= 1 & l=1

Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.doc (File section)Explanation of the Test Results3. In Astrological Statistical Research, there are the simple method and the proper statistical analysis, as mention in the point 1 and 2 of:A Study of 100 Prisoner Charts.doc (File section)Thanks and regards,TW@gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Suprakash ji,> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and> better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you> want to do it?> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please> suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have

this definition of> connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your> suggestions incorporated.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <> suprakash.ghosh@ ...> wrote:> > >> >> > Dear Punit ji> >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the> > basic conditions assumed during the test.> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the> > genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been> > analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is> > that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between> > moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or

in rapt> > conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way?> >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.> >> > Regards> >> > Suprakash> >> >> >> > -> > ** Punit Pandey <punitp> > *To:* @gro ups.com> > *Sent:* Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> > Dear Suresh ji,> >> > Please see your post (> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/

30047). I quote -> >> > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as> > well as logical."> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the> > wheel."> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited> > and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research> > on the subject is surprising."> >> > *Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and the study> > found that the method doesn't work.* Please see the file section and you> > can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study> > found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. *That is the reason I say> > that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.* Your opinion (point> > no. 3 above) is just opposite

and you recommend following them "blindly"> > which also means following incorrect methods.> >> > *What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of> > available methods.* People who are marketing their methods for a long> > time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may> > not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of> > KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating> > in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum> > loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must> > participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we> > will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win.> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> > Punit

Pandey> >> >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@.. .>wrote:> >> >>> >>> >> Dear Punitji,> >> I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not> >> read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But> >> again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years> >> experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his> >> experience.. My only point is research done in so many directions may not be> >> conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently> >> by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post.> >> Suresh Hattangadi> >>> >>> > >

>>

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

Though I am not following this thread, but going through the mail of Adith ji, would like to add something.

 

Please try to varify the ruling planets of the near relatives like, children, father etc from the lord-star lord-sub lord concern houses. This theory is of Mr. khullar (I just read the glimpse of it). It is a good way to cross-check the rectification.

 

I have rectified the natal chart of my family by using this cross-checking principle.

 

with regards,

 

Anurodh 

On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 12:07 AM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear Friends,A True real KP Astrologer may not even need the time period (9.03 to 9.08 am). He can find the actual time without that.!But who knows which is correct.Now the discussion was to ascertain the BRT with the so called actual birth time. Both may or may not be true.

As Senthil ji said, RPs of the most of the astrologers during BTR were almost matching and only the interpretation by the astrologers did vary. So so many options.So planets help and we to work hard to find the truth which is very tough.

Because,  for a known answers in a quiz, we all could not give the right answers many times and hardly few hit the bulls eye. because it needs lot of excercise even for a good real KP astrologer.So you can not just imagine that the time rectified must be correct always for an unknown truth.

It needs lot of research in all aspects scientifically and astrologically.For a grown up man, once BRT is done with the help of RPs and other procedures  , it can be verified with his past events which is also sometimes difficult as many choices will match to the event.

RegardsAdith

On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear friends.

 

Lets not waste time in such discussions which does not nehove for a

good KP Astrologer.  

 

The Birth time is exactly when the support system from mother is removed

and the child begins to live on its own. This can only happen when the child

begins to breathe on its own. This does not necessarily imply that the child

will cry with its first breath. So the actual time of Birth is when the forces and

magnetism, vibrationary waves of the Cosmic rays of the 9 Planets get infused

in the body of the child, which can only happen with the first breath and not

necessarily with the cutting of the chord or the first cry which may not always

co-incide with the first breath. This is commonsense.

 

Now the question is whatever may be the right time of Birth , I mean whatever

may be the parameters, how is it possible to determine the right time of Birth

for Horoscope Calculation and study purposes ?

 

I am giving below the Birth particulars of my own Grand daughter who was

born recently.

 

We have two times for Time of Birth. one was when my wife heard the

first cry from the labour room and another which the Nurse inside the

room, said was the correct time . Do You think I would believe the

Nurse ? No. Do you think I would believe my wife ? No. Do

You think I would believe their watches as right ? No.

 

Today I had to give the Pundit, the Birth particulars so that he could make

the Birth Chart manually in the way its normally made (Sans Computer).

 

Please tell me what time do You think i gave the Pundit ? And why ?

I myself went for the rectification and RP's were taken for the time       19 Dec 2009 Saturday' 18.51.10 Jaipur.

 

I have been given two times for my grand daughter as her time of Birth.

One from my wife, and other by the Nurse .

 

Date of Birth - 9th November 2009,  Place - Jaipur

Recorded Times - 9.03am   and   9.08 am.

 

Now what time do you think I decided to give the Pundit after reckoning

with the RP's at time of judgement ?

 

And once you decide this, then what does it matter whether this is

the time of the first breath or the the first cry or the time when the

chord was cut ?????? Does this matter if You are really a true KP

Astrologer ? Why do you need such inputs ? Why cant you

do the rectification yourself ?

 

Now please answer me, what birth of time do you think I asked the

Punditji to make the Horoscope for, and Why ?

 

And once you decide the Actual Birth time, what do you think happened

at your " arrived at Birth time " . Did the baby cry first ? Did she breathe

first ? Or was the chord cut at your arrived Birth of time.

 

If You cannot answer the second part, do not bother, for this does not

bother me. I should be able to rectify the " assumed Birth time " is what

should bother me as an KP Astrologer. Other theories should not take 

my time or efforts or energies. I am only concerned with the right Time

of Birth whatever its parameters may be.

 

regards/Bhaskar.

 

 

 

, " adith kasinath.g.k " <gkadithkasinath wrote:>> Dear sirs,> > Death is the last breath and Birth is the first Breath.

> First breath happens when? May Dr. Luther or Dr. Sheetal can throw some> light on this.> > If it is only when the baby cries, some times, the baby does not cry> immediately even after the separation from the mother.

> Sometimes the baby cries even before the separation.> > Or can we take as the time when the chord is cut and the link is> disconnected?> > This is one question.> > Another is the time difference between the clock of the operation theratre

> or the doctors or the husband accompanying his wife and also the difference> between the said time and the Indian standard time.> Hence there are lot of chances for errors to happen.> > Regards

> Adith

> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi wrote:> > >> >> > Dear Punit,> > The entire discussion which seems to have developed into> > an argument,sadly, arose on : " Whether the correct TOB is the

> > Time of the First breath of a newborn... " > > The commonsense answer to this simple question is when it> > begins to breathe,and live on its own(we normally say a person is dead when> > he ceases to breathe,he ceases to live),but several people began to give/add

> > several different parameters to consider the Correct TOB...which you,in my> > opinion,in the name of " research " (needlessly) encouraged...and poor Mr.VGR> > Pavan submitted a protocol/suggestion,to which you agreed immediately,in my

> > considered opinion,in too much of a hurry...*That started the discussion> > in full swing,one thing leading to another... and that has brought us to> > this stage now...Isn't it ?*> > * This was,to put the record straight...*

> > * *Yogesh Lajmi.> > * GOOD LUCK !*> >> > ------------------------------> > ** Punit Pandey punitp > *To:* > > *Sent:* Fri, 18 December, 2009 10:25:14 AM> >> > *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> > Dear Lajmi ji,> >

> > See my response to you to your another post - http://groups. /> > group/k_p_ system/message/ 30095</message/30095>. > > I pointed out connection between RP and Varahamihira's Nashta Jatakam in> > year 2003 (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 254</message/254>)

 

> > in this forum itself. *Now tell me, who is ignorant*?> >> > Please read my mail and you will find that I didn't say that method> > suggested by you is not practicable. It is said by Suresh ji that other

> > methods were not practicable and hence I wanted to understand why so. I> > think Suresh ji is better person to answer your question of practicable as> > these are his thoughts.> >

> > I would request you to stop such baseless talks and focus on the subject. I> > do not have any " angst " against anybody. I kept repeating - for me, all KP> > authors are same and I believe in verification. Whether it is Great

> > Varahamihira or Sage Parahshar or Shri KSK or Shri KSK's soon, I don't> > follow anybody blindly and it is what Shri KSK has taught us. Your attempt> > to make people follow KSK's sons blindly is simply against Shri KSK's

> > teachings. You can not and you should not force other people to believe what> > you believe. You are not a PR agency or publicity agency for a person or a> > publication and you should not behave like that. We are not here to sell

> > products or promote something, but for KP study, research and development> > and we should focus on that.> >> > I would not have even approved your emails as those are unnecessarily

> > disturbing nature. We are doing one important BTR methods verification> > process and your emails are diverting attention from the core subject. Your> > emails are approved just because I myself was the target of your attack and

> > I thought I must answer all your questions in the forum so that everyone> > knows about it. But we will all agree that it is sheer waste of our time and> > forum's time.> >> > Thanks & Regards,

> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ yogeshlajmi > > > wrote:> >> >>> >>> >> Dear Punit,> >> Exactly which method suggested by me *is not practicable,according to you...> >> *

> >> * *I have already,a few minutes ago,written to you> >> exposing your ignorance about what Varaha Mihira has exactly said about " how> >> to erect Birth Chart of unknown TOB... "

> >> Without being harsh,I must point out that the sooner you> >> realise that there is a *whole lot more* to Astrology,both *Traditional> >> as well as K.P System.,* than you think you know... the better it will be

> >> for ALL of US....!> >> With best wishes,> >> Yogesh Lajmi.> >> GOOD LUCK !> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------> >> ** Punit Pandey punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com punitp

> >> *To:* @gro ups.com > >>> >> *Sent:* Thu, 17 December, 2009 10:56:49 AM > >> *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?> >>> >>> >>> >> Dear Suresh ji,> >>> >> Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and that

> >> is the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind following,> >> Shri KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work> >> 'consistently'.. Instead of blind following, we should verify what works

> >> well and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.> >>> >> Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written. Which> >> method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not

> >> practicable and logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should follow> >> only one " stalwart " and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see the> >> file section and you will find that the most promoted method by Lajmi ji

> >> (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected by a study. We should not close our eyes> >> and blindly follow anything, it is what I think.> >>> >> Thanks & Regards,> >>

> >> Punit Pandey> >>> >>> >>> >> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_suresh@ hattangadi_suresh > >> > wrote:> >>> >>>> >>>> >>> Dear Punitji,> >>> Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP

> >>> followers more..In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is> >>> practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this matter is> >>> like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular

> >>> method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and> >>> insist further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort should be> >>> instead on finding out if this particular method suggested and advocated by

> >>> Lajmiji does give correct results and research if any should be on this> >>> line.> >>> Suresh Hattangadi> >>>> >>>> >>> >> ------------------------------

 

> >> See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now<http://au.rd./movies/mailtagline/*http://au.movies../session-times/>

> >> .> >>> >>> >> > ------------------------------> > See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now<http://au.rd./movies/mailtagline/*http://au.movies./session-times/>

> > .> > > >>

 

 

-- Anurodh

[Guest guest]

Dear Adith ji

 

Have you recorded the first cry times? If so, it can be a good data for Pavan.

 

Regards

 

Suprakash

 

 

 

-

adith kasinath.g.k

Tuesday, December 22, 2009 12:59 AM

Re: What is the correct birth time?

Dear Dr. Sheetal, I agree with your statement.When I was accompanying my wife at her delivery in the labour (as being a Vet., basically) room, I noticed my last baby gave his first cry as soon as the doctor takes out and just held in her palms. The chord was not cut.My 2nd baby was just reacting to the wiping up by the doctor but no sound was audible. But the mouth was open and trying to cry. Hence once the baby comes out when the outside cosmic rays reacts to the baby's body, the stimulation starts.RegardsAdith

On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Sheetal <ratnamalag > wrote:

 

 

 

Dear Adith ji

 

I have fergotten to write one imp point that there is not much difference between the first breath and complete delivery of bady. Usually whole body delivers within a mt time after the first breath in both normal as well as CS delivery. Wrong birth time is becos of wrong notification so we have to correct/varify it.

 

Regards

Dr Sheetal

 

 

 

On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Sheetal <ratnamalag > wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear Adith ji

 

I am just making u aware of the medical part and controversies about the time of birth.

 

The first breath of the child usually coincide with 1st cry of baby which in turn coincide with the physiological closure of blood vessels in umbilical cord making baby independent from mother biologically. Though actual anatomical closure of umbillical cord & vessels may take few hours to few days later. Even though if the cord is not clamped ( anatomical separation) after delivery of baby, usually and normally blood vessels contracts and blood flow stops( mother stops maintaining the baby) . As soon as the baby takes the first breath, Oxygen enters the lungs of baby with force and it opens up the lungs alveoli, which brings about so many immediate chemical/ gaseous changes within seconds, in foetal circulation. This constrict the umbilical blood vessels automatically The forceful entry of air into hollow pipe of air passage produce a sound like cry. First cry may not produce strong sound but subsequent gushing of air brings about the successive cry sequence.

 

 

During delivery, as soon as the baby's head is out of the entroitus, it is a routine practice to clean the baby's nose and mouth so that secretion should not be aspirated by the baby and that time only baby take the first breath. Many factors are responsible for stimulation of respiration eg skin contact with external stimulate, external air/atmosphere, touch etc. The entry of air through the respiratory passage produce first mild sound, many times followed by successive vigorous sounds which we call as CRY. During C.S. as soon as the baby's head is taken out of incision, there is a practice of cleaning the nose and mouth immediately for the same reason which coincide with the first breath/ cry and no body wait till whole body come out in normal or CS delivery( to avoid aspirations of the secretions on face.) There is usually no need of patting on back and all routinely. In medical practice, in past severing of the cord was noted as time of birth but now the first breath is noted as time of birth. But there are also difference of opinion about this. But correct time of birth is more important for astrologers so we have to think which time we should note as birth time.

 

In breech delivery, breech and body of the baby is delivered first and baby's head comes later and in that case time noted is after delivery of the head only.If the head delivery is delayed due to any reason( impaction), then external stimuli stimulate the respiration while the head is inside the pelvis and baby may die due to aspiration of fluid with respiration before delivery of head. Here we should think what should be taken as exact time of birth?

 

Sometimes baby doesn't breath even after complete delivery of the body and we have to resuscitate the baby to start respiration, so which time should we not here as birth time?We note here as soon as complete body is delivered whether child is alive or not.( as birth has happened)

 

Mostly mistake is due to wrong time in watches in hospital but now a days due to belief in astrology by the pts and doctors, watches with correct time are used especially in private hospital. Commonly watch is hanged on the wall of labour room so that attending doctor is in habit of seeing the watch while cleaning the nostrils and lips of baby. But still there can be difference of few mts due to human error.

 

Regards

Dr Sheetal

 

 

 

On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 6:14 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath > wrote:

 

 

 

Dear sirs,Death is the last breath and Birth is the first Breath.First breath happens when? May Dr. Luther or Dr. Sheetal can throw some light on this.If it is only when the baby cries, some times, the baby does not cry immediately even after the separation from the mother.Sometimes the baby cries even before the separation.Or can we take as the time when the chord is cut and the link is disconnected?This is one question.Another is the time difference between the clock of the operation theratre or the doctors or the husband accompanying his wife and also the difference between the said time and the Indian standard time. Hence there are lot of chances for errors to happen.RegardsAdith

 

 

 

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi > wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Punit,

The entire discussion which seems to have developed into an argument,sadly, arose on : " Whether the correct TOB is the Time of the First breath of a newborn..."

The commonsense answer to this simple question is when it begins to breathe,and live on its own(we normally say a person is dead when he ceases to breathe,he ceases to live),but several people began to give/add several different parameters to consider the Correct TOB...which you,in my opinion,in the name of "research" (needlessly) encouraged...and poor Mr.VGR Pavan submitted a protocol/suggestion,to which you agreed immediately,in my considered opinion,in too much of a hurry...That started the discussion in full swing,one thing leading to another... and that has brought us to this stage now...Isn't it ?

This was,to put the record straight...

Yogesh Lajmi.

GOOD LUCK !

 

 

 

 

Punit Pandey <punitp > Sent: Fri, 18 December, 2009 10:25:14 AM Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

Dear Lajmi ji,

 

 

See my response to you to your another post - http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30095. I pointed out connection between RP and Varahamihira's Nashta Jatakam in year 2003 (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 254) in this forum itself. Now tell me, who is ignorant?

 

Please read my mail and you will find that I didn't say that method suggested by you is not practicable. It is said by Suresh ji that other methods were not practicable and hence I wanted to understand why so. I think Suresh ji is better person to answer your question of practicable as these are his thoughts.

 

I would request you to stop such baseless talks and focus on the subject. I do not have any "angst" against anybody. I kept repeating - for me, all KP authors are same and I believe in verification. Whether it is Great Varahamihira or Sage Parahshar or Shri KSK or Shri KSK's soon, I don't follow anybody blindly and it is what Shri KSK has taught us. Your attempt to make people follow KSK's sons blindly is simply against Shri KSK's teachings. You can not and you should not force other people to believe what you believe. You are not a PR agency or publicity agency for a person or a publication and you should not behave like that. We are not here to sell products or promote something, but for KP study, research and development and we should focus on that.

 

I would not have even approved your emails as those are unnecessarily disturbing nature. We are doing one important BTR methods verification process and your emails are diverting attention from the core subject. Your emails are approved just because I myself was the target of your attack and I thought I must answer all your questions in the forum so that everyone knows about it. But we will all agree that it is sheer waste of our time and forum's time.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

 

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Punit,

Exactly which method suggested by me is not practicable, according to you...

I have already,a few minutes ago,written to you exposing your ignorance about what Varaha Mihira has exactly said about "how to erect Birth Chart of unknown TOB..."

Without being harsh,I must point out that the sooner you realise that there is a whole lot more to Astrology,both Traditional as well as K.P System., than you think you know... the better it will be for ALL of US....!

With best wishes,

Yogesh Lajmi.

GOOD LUCK !

 

 

 

 

 

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Thu, 17 December, 2009 10:56:49 AMRe: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

Dear Suresh ji,

 

 

Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and that is the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind following, Shri KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work 'consistently'.. Instead of blind following, we should verify what works well and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.

 

Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written. Which method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not practicable and logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should follow only one "stalwart" and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see the file section and you will find that the most promoted method by Lajmi ji (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected by a study. We should not close our eyes and blindly follow anything, it is what I think.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_suresh@ > wrote:

 

 

 

Dear Punitji,Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP followers more..In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort should be instead on finding out if this particular method suggested and advocated by Lajmiji does give correct results and research if any should be on this line.Suresh Hattangadi

 

 

 

 

 

 

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