What is the correct birth time?

December 31, 2009

Bhaskar Ji ,Tw Ji & others

We get this rule from-

Method 8 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham

The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant, if the Ascendant is correct.Reference: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam

With thanks & regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi Cc: Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotishWed, December 30, 2009 9:50:34 PMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

Dear Bhaskar,

The Time of Epoch,or the exact time when the human egg is fertilised is approximately 273 days before the TOB....in most cases of normal deliveries.. .

Ms. Linda Goodman, in her excellent Book, "Love Signs", has written an article captioned

"A Time to Embrace"...in which she has said that ancient Kings were advised by their astrologers ,

shamans etc.,that the best time for the Queen to conceive was during the few hours when the Sun and Moon,are exactly at the same number of degrees apart,as they were at the Time of her birth.

It was later found by KSK and researched upon by K.P. Scholars,that the Ruling Planets

at the fertilisation (of the human egg,by the human sperm),were the very same at theTime of Birth (and also of one's death,too !)...in around over 60 % of cases...

Further research showed that at the EXACT Time Of Birth,the Ascendant sublord should the same or is in the same star of the Moon's Star-lord...(which can be extended to,depending upon the SW one is using to... Ascendant's sub lord and sub-sub-lord which should appear as the starlord and sub-lord of the Moon.)

This is the background for what is said by the late Shri M.P.Shanmugham in his very illuminating book...and perhaps what Mr.Dhirendranath was trying to say...

With kind regards,

Yogesh Lajmi

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>@gro ups.comTue, 29 December, 2009 10:46:39 PM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Dear Mishra ji,Logic or not, is a seperate matter, but - Where do we get this rule inmost cases ???regards/Bhaskar.@gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra<dhirendranathmisra wrote:>> DearÃ‚ D.SenthilÃ‚ Sir,> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ // "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"> Ã‚> CanÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÃ‚the above rule for few secondsÃ‚ or fewÃ‚ minutes all are WRONGONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÃ‚saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply aUSLESS RULE ONLY.Ã‚ //> Ã‚> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚

Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Canyou once again shed some light on the above as to why we get inÃ‚ mostof the cases "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub =Natal MOON Sub" even if there is no logic.Certainly in few cases theabove conditionÃ‚ does not apply and necessity arose to find outÃ‚perfect rule beyond doubt.> With thanks & regards,Ã‚> Dhirendra Nath Misra> Ã‚>>>>> ____________ _________ _________ __> Senthil athi_ram @gro ups.com> Tue, December 29, 2009 5:59:23 AM> Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?>> Ã‚> Dear Members,>> The RULE,> Ã‚> "Natal Asc

Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"> Ã‚> CanÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÃ‚the above rule for few secondsÃ‚ or fewÃ‚ minutes all are WRONGONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÃ‚saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply aUSLESS RULE ONLY.> Ã‚> GOOD LUCK!!>>> D.Senthil>>>> --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ymail.com> wrote:>>> >Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ ymail.com>> >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?> >@gro ups.com> >Monday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM> >> >> >Ã‚> >Dear Sir,The above rule may

be accepted as true if by shiftingrecorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3minutes)Ã‚ onlyÃ‚ we can apply the above rule.Besides this thedifferent astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birthtime further for different ayanamsas.> >With thanks & regards,Ã‚> >Dhirendra Nath Misra> >Ã‚> >> >> >> >> >> ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>> >@gro ups.com> >Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >Ã‚> >Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. Buttrying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half anhour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist

whohas come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will lookat us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not readyto listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that thenatives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recordingof the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before Ipronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwiseI would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moonis not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift thetime to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.> >> >Bhaskar.> >> >@gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>wrote:> >>> >> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society,

andyou will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?> >>> >> Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then notethe time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the deliveryroom ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested? Good..> >>> >> Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods andsuch topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time ofBirth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? Andwhat is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going togo about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physicalchecking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, wemust ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated andbecome pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we mustcheck for a girl who

is asking whether she will have love marriage ornot- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love isthere between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ?Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> >>> >> Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Whycant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnaliato predict ?> >>> >> If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will beable to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type ofastrology are we into ?> >>> >> And after having known the time of the first cry, do You thinkwhatever you predict will be right ?> >>> >> Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one.He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his powerof

discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.> >>> >> Bhaskar.> >>> >>> >>> >> @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh"<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> >> >> >> > Dear Punitji> >> >> >> > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connectionwith nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actualtime of first cry.> >> >> >> > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> >> >> >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> >> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> >> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A> >> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> >> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)>

>> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a thirdplanet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentionedorb with C> >> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> >> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> >> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,withspecified orb)> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Regards> >> >> >> > Suprakash> >> >> >> >> >> > -> >> > Punit Pandey> >> > @gro ups.com> >> > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>

>> >> > Dear Suprakash ji,> >> >> >> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have anyalternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please letus know how you want to do it?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc andMoon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we havethis definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moonconnection method with your suggestions incorporated.> >> >> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> >> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >> > Dear Punit ji> >> >> >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let usknow the basic conditions assumed during the test.> >> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What wasthe genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all thecharts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What Imean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connectionapparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they haveexchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed inthis way?> >> >> >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.> >> >> >> > Regards> >> >> >> > Suprakash> >> >> >> >> >> > ----- Original Message

-----> >> > Punit Pandey> >> > @gro ups.com> >> > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Suresh ji,> >> >> >> > Please see your post (http://groups./ / group//message/ 30047). I quote -> >> >> >> > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji ispracticable as well as logical."> >> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is likere-inventing the wheel."> >> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method asbest suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and

insistfurther research on the subject is surprising."> >> >> >> > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" andthe study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the filesection and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercelybut what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That isthe reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.Your opinion (point no.. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommendfollowing them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods.> >> >> >> > What we are doing is not further research but merely verificationof available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a longtime, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. Itmay not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely ininterest of KP. Instead of

appreciating this verification process andparticipating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attentionand making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale andwe all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of thisexercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally theKP will win.> >> >> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> >> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Punitji,> >> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You haveobviously not read full comment where I have said you can test thismethod for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a

rawnerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seemto question value of his experience.My only point is research done in somany directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of datawill be interpreted differently by different people as will be evidentif you have read subsequent post.> >> > Suresh Hattangadi> >> >> >>> >> >> >>

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December 31, 2009

Dear Tw Ji, Please guide me if rules framed by Mr.M.P. Shanmugham apply in the following charts or it is also imiginary :

Method 8 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham

The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant, if the Ascendant is correct.Reference: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam

[1] Male baby (Suyash)

DOB-06th April,1998

TOB-Recorded Time- 10:12AM[Recorded time of first cry]

POB-Haldwani, District- Nainital

Latitude-29N13

Longitude-79E31

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Asc-Sub lord= Moon sub lord=Venus

Asc sub sub lord =Moon star lord=Mercury

Other Birth Particulars,

[2]Daughter was born in hospital- Time of first cry was recorded

DOB-24th June,1995

TOB-10:56PM

POB-Basti,U. P

Latitude-26N48

Longitude 82E44

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Sun

Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub = Saturn

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

[3]My own

DOB-20th April,1959

TOB-08:15AM( Recorded Time) as noted in Janm Patri,Rectified by me as 08:15:56 AM for K.P Ayanamsa only.I think at that time watch was either slow by 56 seconds or watch had not hand showing time up to second.

POB-Basti,U. P,India.

Latitude-26N48

Longitude-82E44

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord = Venus

Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord =Saturn

[4]Female,National Institute of Health,Washington D.C

DOB-20.09.1977

POB-Mumbai

TOB-08:30:50AM

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Ketu

Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub =Venus

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

[5] K.S.Krishnamurty Ji

DOB-01-11-1908

TOB-12:07:30PM

POB-Thiruvayuru

Asc sub lord =Moon star lord=Moon

Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord = Mars

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Does there any rule apply? Does recorded birth time of first cry reveal any rule or on what basis you can deny this time.More recorded time of first cry may be collected,if required for study.

With thanks and regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

TW <tw853 Sent: Wed, December 30, 2009 6:51:01 PM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Dear Dhirendra Nath Misra,

Could you or imaginer of this rule or anyone else kindly provide any chart, for which this rule* is correct, in the whole published astrological literature (Western, Eastern KP, Vedic in English, etc), to prove that it can be correct as you are saying. * as stated in the attachment Thanks and regards,TW

Asc Sub = Moon Star & simultaneously Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule(What is this? How to be applied? by Statements and Live Charts?) Statements (1-6)http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 16098?threaded= 1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 17262?threaded= 1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20847?threaded= 1 & l=1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22223?threaded= 1 & l=1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22262?threaded= 1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28249?threaded= 1 & l=1 Chart 1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20694http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20759CUSP Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl :PLANET Sgl Stl Sbl SsL RULING PLANETSASC Mar Sat Moo Ven :SUN. Mer Mar Mer Mer ASC STL :Sat2nd Jup Ket Mer Mer :MOON Sat Moo Ven Ven ASC SGL :Mar(the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Moon & Venus, appear as the

Moon's star lord and sublord respectively) Chart 2http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22473http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22482?threaded= 1 & l=1I am pleased to inform you that the exact Time of Birth works out to :00,00,16 A.M., on 12-04-1960.. .(used K.P.Ayanamsa only)Such that, the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Mars & Jupiter, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively. .. ! Chart 3http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 23290http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 23309?threaded= 1 & l=1Rakesh's TOB requires a small correction.. .The exact Birth Time of Rakesh is 02-25-00 A.M.Kindly cast the chart for this TOB and check...(the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Mercury & Mercury, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively) Chart 4http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27814http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27822?threaded= 1 & l=1Your EXACT Birth Time,is 04-17-00. AM. IST.,as per K.P. System,using Krishnamurthi Ayanamsa,and the late Mr.A.R.Raichur' s SW... For this TOB,the sub-lord and the sub-sub-lord of your

Ascendant,Mars and Saturn,respectively will appear as the Moon's Star-lord and sub-lord respectively. Chart 5http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27631?threaded= 1 & l=1Kindly recall that as far back as on 12-10-2006,I had corrected your TOB be EXACTLY, 10-14-30....http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28059?threaded= 1 & l=1 I am pleased to inform you that the TOB rectified by me was confirmed by Mr. Gurmeet Singh...10-14- 30 AM. IST at Ludhiana...I have sent many a BTRs through this site...ALL of them have proved correct,except perhaps a single exception...http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28061?threaded= 1 & l=1The correct birth time is 10:14:30 AM. Lajmi ji and I rectified my birth time.(the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Mercury, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively) Chart 6http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27685http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27706Kindly correct the Birth Time in the Chart,as per K.P., you will find a different picture...as the TOB will emerge as 08-18-00. AM.Then analyse the IInd cusp for financial position/standing. ..CUSP Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl :PLANET Sgl Stl Sbl SsLASC Ven Jup Ven

Sat :SUN. Ven Moo Moo Jup 2nd Mar Mer Jup Moo :MO Jup Ven Sat Mer (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Saturn, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively) Chart 7http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28523?threaded= 1 & l=1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28588Did you check whether the TOB is correct ?I have corrected the TOB,it is 18-29-00.CUSP Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl :PLANET Sgl Stl Sbl SsL ASC Ven Jup Ven Sat :SUN. Ven Moo Moo Jup

2nd Mar Mer Jup Moo :MOO Jup Ven Sat Mer(the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Saturn, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively)

@gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3 minutes)Ã‚ onlyÃ‚ we can apply the above rule.Besides this the different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth time further for different ayanamsas.> With thanks & regards,Ã‚ > Dhirendra Nath Misra> Ã‚ > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> @gro ups.com> Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM> Re: What is the correct birth time?> > Ã‚ > Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half

an hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark. Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect. > > Bhaskar.> > @gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote:> >> > Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot

in society, and you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?> > > > Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested ? Good.> > > > Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical checking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, we must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love

marriage or not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ? Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> > > > Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia to predict ? > > > > If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of astrology are we into ?> > > > And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think whatever you predict will be right ?> > > > Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one. He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper. > > > > Bhaskar.>

> > > > > > > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh" <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > >> > > Dear Punitji> > > > > > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual time of first cry.> > > > > > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> > > > > > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A > > > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> > > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> > > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb with C>

> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with specified orb)> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > Suprakash> > > > > > > > > - > > > Punit Pandey > > > @gro ups.com > > > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > > > > > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you want to do it?> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your suggestions incorporated. > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Punit ji> > > > > > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the basic conditions assumed during the test.> > > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating

is not all.Have all the charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way? > > > > > > If not, then the test has no relevance.> > > > > > Regards> > > > > > Suprakash> > > > > > > > > - > > > Punit Pandey > > > @gro ups.com > > > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Suresh ji,> > > > > > Please see your post

(http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -> > > > > > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical."> > > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel."> > > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising."> > > > > > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is the reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts. Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them

"blindly" which also means following incorrect methods. > > > > > > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win. > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM,

suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > Dear Punitji,> > > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post. > > > Suresh Hattangadi> > >> >>

December 31, 2009

Dear friends

Please answer or ask anything but the link must be remained the same.

In this context, I request all friends who are giving posts in this forum, without opening new file, please continue to the current file of the original post it will help all others to understand the basic theme of the subject.

At last, every astrologer has his own views regarding ruling planets as well as rectification of birth time and they will be confined with him only. If the same will be tried by others, time rectified will not be matched because of use of different views.

I request all members to go through every method and try them and apply any of them to get correct rectified time of birth and then check the past events in the light of transit and if possible DBAs. This will give you the correctness as compared with others.

With regards

Vijayanand Patil, President, Astrovision, Kolhapur

Cell No. +91 9673746303/+919422582853

email : guide_vijayanand

On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:53:30 +0530 wrote

>

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh

wrote:

> > > Dear Punitji,

> > > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously

not read full comment where I have said you can test this method for

results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji,

s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question

value of his experience.My only point is research done in so many

directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will

be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if you

have read subsequent post.

> > > Suresh Hattangadi

> > >

> >

>

December 31, 2009

Dear Punit Ji,Lajmi Ji,Bhaskar Ji,VGR Pavan Ji ,TW Ji, & others, Thanks for reply.Sir,Does there not apply any K.P rule or which of the following rule does apply in charts / birth data sent by me. I am forwarding cell No. of my Bhabhi Ji( Dr.Jay sri.) who is running her own hospital / Maternity center at Mukhani,Haldwani. Bhaskar Ji and VGR Ji wants to collect more birth particulars of new born babies.Bhaskar Ji may note down that babies generally take 10 seconds time between first breath and then cry.Umblical chord is generally cut after 2 minutes of first cry.But it is not a rule.There is no relation between these two things.Umblical chord is cut when the whole body of the baby comes out.My bhabhi Ji told me that she generally writes down time of coming out of head of babies or of first cry.For collecting more information please Bhaskar Ji,VGR Pavan Ji,Or any other member may contact sincerely on cell No. 09837053494

,9837053494.Please you may contact between 6:30PM to 7:00PM.

Method 8 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham

The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant, if the Ascendant is correct.Reference: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.

Method 9 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham

The Sun, Jupiter and Venus, alone, are the three planets mainly responsible for human births...i) Sun is the Athma Karaka-chief sigificator of the soul...ii) Jupiter is Putrakaraka-chief significator for childbirth...iii)Venus is Kamakaraka-chief significator for sexual pleasure... It has been observed by the late M.P.Shanmugham, that Sun or Jupiter or Venus, are always found as the starlord or sublord of the IXth cusp. Thus emerges the method, that if the IXth sublord is found to be under the said circumstances(sic), the horoscope cast is

correct...to the minute... !Reference: /message/22262

[1] Male baby (Suyash)

DOB-06th April,1998

TOB-Recorded Time- 10:12AM[Recorded time of first cry]

POB-Haldwani, District- Nainital

Latitude-29N13

Longitude-79E31

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Asc-Sub lord= Moon sub lord=Venus

Asc sub sub lord =Moon star lord=Mercury

Other Birth Particulars,

[2]Daughter was born in hospital- Time of first cry was recorded

DOB-24th June,1995

TOB-10:56PM

POB-Basti,U. P

Latitude-26N48

Longitude 82E44

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Sun

Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub = Saturn

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

[3]My own

DOB-20th April,1959

TOB-08:15AM( Recorded Time) as noted in Janm Patri,Rectified by me as 08:15:56 AM for K.P Ayanamsa only.I think at that time watch was either slow by 56 seconds or watch had not hand showing time up to second.

POB-Basti,U. P,India.

Latitude-26N48

Longitude-82E44

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord = Venus

Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord =Saturn

[4]Female,National Institute of Health,Washington D.C

DOB-20.09.1977

POB-Mumbai

TOB-08:30:50AM

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Ketu

Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub =Venus

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

[5] K.S.Krishnamurty Ji

DOB-01-11-1908

TOB-12:07:30PM

POB-Thiruvayuru

Asc sub lord =Moon star lord=Moon

Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord = Mars

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Does there any rule apply? Does recorded birth time of first cry reveal any rule or on what basis you can deny this time.More recorded time of first cry may be collected,if required for study.

With thanks & regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

vgr pavan <vgr_pavan1dhirendranathmisraSent: Thu, December 31, 2009 6:52:15 AMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

Mishraji Pranam,I am interested to collect more birth profiles , If you can give me your "bhabhijis" contact details.thanks ,.....Peace and Prosperity to All !!VGR--- On Wed, 30/12/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra wrote:

Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisraRe: Re: What is the correct birth time? Date: Wednesday, 30 December, 2009, 1:18 PM

Dear Lazmi Ji,D.Senthil Ji,Punit Ji,Bhaskar Ji,Kalyan Ji,Tw Ji ,Dr.Rath Ji & other senior members,

I am fowarding birth particulars of my son recorded by my Bhabhi (Dr.Jay Sri) Ji who is a medical doctor and runs her own maternity center in Haldwani,District- Nainital at Mukhani.She records time of first cry of child as correct birth time.Thousands of birth time of first cry of babies may be collected from there.I may provide her cell No. if required to collect birth data of first cry.

Birth particular of my own son is as under:

[1] Male baby (Suyash)

DOB-06th April,1998

TOB-Recorded Time- 10:12AM[Recorded time of first cry]

POB-Haldwani, District- Nainital

Latitude-29N13

Longitude-79E31

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Asc-Sub lord= Moon sub lord=Venus

Asc sub sub lord =Moon star lord=Mercury

Other Birth Particulars,

[2]Daughter was born in hospital- Time of first cry was recorded

DOB-24th June,1995

TOB-10:56PM

POB-Basti,U. P

Latitude-26N48

Longitude 82E44

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Sun

Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub = Saturn

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

[3]My own

DOB-20th April,1959

TOB-08:15AM( Recorded Time) as noted in Janm Patri,Rectified by me as 08:15:56 AM for K.P Ayanamsa only.I think at that time watch was either slow by 56 seconds or watch had not hand showing time up to second.

POB-Basti,U. P,India.

Latitude-26N48

Longitude-82E44

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord = Venus

Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord =Saturn

[4]Female,National Institute of Health,Washington D.C

DOB-20.09.1977

POB-Mumbai

TOB-08:30:50AM

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Ketu

Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub =Venus

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

[5] K.S.Krishnamurty Ji

DOB-01-11-1908

TOB-12:07:30PM

POB-Thiruvayuru

Asc sub lord =Moon star lord=Moon

Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord = Mars

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Does there any rule apply? Does recorded birth time of first cry reveal any rule or on what basis you can deny this time.More recorded time of first cry may be collected,if required for study.

Dhirendra Nath Misra

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>@gro ups.comTue, December 29, 2009 10:46:39 PM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Dear Mishra ji,Logic or not, is a seperate matter, but - Where do we get this rule inmost cases ???regards/Bhaskar.@gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra<dhirendranathmisra wrote:>> DearÃ‚ D.SenthilÃ‚ Sir,> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ // "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"> Ã‚> CanÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÃ‚the above rule for few secondsÃ‚ or fewÃ‚ minutes all are WRONGONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÃ‚saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply aUSLESS RULE ONLY.Ã‚ //> Ã‚> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Canyou once again shed

some light on the above as to why we get inÃ‚ mostof the cases "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub =Natal MOON Sub" even if there is no logic.Certainly in few cases theabove conditionÃ‚ does not apply and necessity arose to find outÃ‚perfect rule beyond doubt.> With thanks & regards,Ã‚> Dhirendra Nath Misra> Ã‚>>>>> ____________ _________ _________ __> Senthil athi_ram @gro ups.com> Tue, December 29, 2009 5:59:23 AM> Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?>> Ã‚> Dear Members,>> The RULE,> Ã‚> "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"> Ã‚> CanÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÃ‚the above rule for few secondsÃ‚ or fewÃ‚ minutes

all are WRONGONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÃ‚saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply aUSLESS RULE ONLY.> Ã‚> GOOD LUCK!!>>> D.Senthil>>>> --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ymail.com> wrote:>>> >Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ ymail.com>> >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?> >@gro ups.com> >Monday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM> >> >> >Ã‚> >Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shiftingrecorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3minutes)Ã‚ onlyÃ‚ we can

apply the above rule.Besides this thedifferent astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birthtime further for different ayanamsas.> >With thanks & regards,Ã‚> >Dhirendra Nath Misra> >Ã‚> >> >> >> >> >> ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>> >@gro ups.com> >Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >Ã‚> >Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. Buttrying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half anhour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist whohas come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will

lookat us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not readyto listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that thenatives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recordingof the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before Ipronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwiseI would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moonis not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift thetime to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.> >> >Bhaskar.> >> >@gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>wrote:> >>> >> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, andyou will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?>

>>> >> Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then notethe time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the deliveryroom ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested? Good.> >>> >> Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods andsuch topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time ofBirth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? Andwhat is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going togo about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physicalchecking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, wemust ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated andbecome pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we mustcheck for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage ornot- every evening go

where she goes, whom she meets, how much love isthere between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ?Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> >>> >> Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Whycant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnaliato predict ?> >>> >> If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will beable to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type ofastrology are we into ?> >>> >> And after having known the time of the first cry, do You thinkwhatever you predict will be right ?> >>> >> Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one.He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his powerof discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.> >>>

>> Bhaskar.> >>> >>> >>> >> @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh"<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> >> >> >> > Dear Punitji> >> >> >> > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connectionwith nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actualtime of first cry.> >> >> >> > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> >> >> >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> >> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> >> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A> >> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> >> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> >> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a

thirdplanet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentionedorb with C> >> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> >> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> >> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,withspecified orb)> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Regards> >> >> >> > Suprakash> >> >> >> >> >> > -> >> > Punit Pandey> >> > @gro ups.com> >> > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Suprakash ji,> >> >>

>> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have anyalternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please letus know how you want to do it?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc andMoon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we havethis definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moonconnection method with your suggestions incorporated.> >> >> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> >> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Punit ji>

>> >> >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let usknow the basic conditions assumed during the test.> >> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What wasthe genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all thecharts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What Imean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connectionapparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they haveexchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed inthis way?> >> >> >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.> >> >> >> > Regards> >> >> >> > Suprakash> >> >> >> >> >> > -> >> > Punit Pandey> >> > To:

@gro ups.com> >> > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Suresh ji,> >> >> >> > Please see your post (http://groups. / group//message/ 30047). I quote -> >> >> >> > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji ispracticable as well as logical."> >> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is likere-inventing the wheel."> >> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method asbest suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insistfurther research on the subject is surprising."> >>

>> >> > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" andthe study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the filesection and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercelybut what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That isthe reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommendfollowing them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods.> >> >> >> > What we are doing is not further research but merely verificationof available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a longtime, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. Itmay not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely ininterest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process andparticipating in it, I wounder

why people are trying to divert attentionand making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale andwe all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of thisexercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally theKP will win.> >> >> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> >> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Punitji,> >> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You haveobviously not read full comment where I have said you can test thismethod for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a rawnerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seemto question

value of his experience.My only point is research done in somany directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of datawill be interpreted differently by different people as will be evidentif you have read subsequent post.> >> > Suresh Hattangadi> >> >> >>> >> >> >>

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.

December 31, 2009

Dear Friends,

This non-RP based rule is nothing to do with the RP-based BTR recommending

Pre-Natal Approach articles by late K.M. Subramaniam and his nephew Vikarai

Ramamurthy.

/message/30250?threaded=1

/message/30276

Regards,

TW

, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar,

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â The Time of Epoch,or the exact

timeÂ when the human egg is fertilised is approximately 273 days before the

TOB...in most cases of normal deliveries...

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Ms. Linda Goodman, in her excellent

Book,Â " Love Signs " , has written an article captioned

> " A Time to Embrace " ...in which she hasÂ said that ancient Kings were advised

by their astrologers ,

> shamans etc.,that the best time for the Queen to conceive was during the few

hours when the Sun and Moon,are exactly at the same number of degrees apart,as

they were at the Time of her birth.

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â It was later found by KSK and

researched upon by K.P. Scholars,that the Ruling Planets

> at the fertilisation (of the human egg,by the human sperm),were the very same

at theTime of Birth (and also of one's death,too !)...in around over 60 % of

cases...

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Further research showed that at the

EXACT Time Of Birth,the Ascendant sublordÂ should the same or is in the same

star of the Moon's Star-lord...(which can be extended to,depending upon the SW

one is using to... Ascendant's sub lord and sub-sub-lord whichÂ should appear as

the starlord and sub-lord of the Moon.)

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â This is the background for what is

said by the late Shri M.P.Shanmugham in his very illuminating book...and perhaps

what Mr.Dhirendranath was trying to say...

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â With kind regards,

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Yogesh Lajmi

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

>