Is BTR enough to decide that BTR method is Correct ?

December 20, 2009

Respected Senior Members,Many of us have been silent spectators whenever topic about BTR has been discussed in this forum, which is leading to utter confusion in the minds of many including to the beginners like me. All these time, I had kept quiet on this topic is due to my limited knowledge in KP. I have got involved in the last 6 months or so by reading the latest

editions of Reader 1,3 &

5, Astro Secrets & KP Vol 1, 2 & 3 and waiting for the copy

of Vol 4, Sub Lord

Speaks Vol 1, 2 & 3. All these books were bought from Krishman & Co - Madras. Apart from reading these books, I spend a lot of time at the astrosage tutorials section and of course read to all the mails exchanged in or forum - and the journey continue. What I

would like to say is my point of view with limited knowledge but with a bit of common sense.Sirs, there are so many methods of BTR's seen in the astrosage site (10 ways - I think), let it be "n" number of ways. This is just the first hurdle which we have to cross to erect a natal chart with KP. Now whether this BTR is right or wrong CANNOT be proven by just one incident / event in ones life - Can we justify that ? I am sure it is not.So what is to be done ? Research - OK ---- on what --- and how ? We are doing research by various Quiz - lets take the latest one BTR 1 & 2. Sir the quiz master / conductor has given the details of the mother, father and the approx time of the Kid whose BTR is to be done. Now here the question arises - how far the parents TOB is correct to see the

fructification of the event called "birth of child" and in the second one the conductor said the time is correct for the child as it was cesarian and hence the TOB is correct. Are the parents allowed in the operation theatre or is one of the parent/relative a doc who did that cesarian ? Ok let us accept it was, but again will not everyone look at saving the child and the mother or look at the watch -- or let us say they look at the watch --- is the time right, what shows in that watch --- so many questions. Time is relative -- as well as it is precious --- if it is not, we would not be discussing.So we get an approx. time which is generally observed on the higher side of the actual TOB. So we use the Hora / Prasna method (which I

personaly feel where KP is the strongest) with the help of RP's we find the TOB - as cited in the various examples in the books mentioned above. As well as the various methods as suggested by various

esteemed seniors as listed in the astrosage site.As TW ji said BTR is a time consuming process -- I call this process as "Research" if I need to know my Astro DNA as per KP, (by Astro DNA - I mean my Natal Chart). Each one of us know that we have 2 luminaries and a group of malefic & benefic Planets spread over 27 constellation but all confined inside the 12 Houses. May be this is the reason, why G Singh ji (in one of his earlier mails) has said that how confident are we to consider the CSL to check for an event ? I feel he is right , because what we have done is just found the TOB (in whatever method listed) and we erect the chart -- Have we done that process what

TW ji said -- have we done the research on our own data -- for the events happened in our life. I am sure that out of the 12 Houses we would have events for atleast 10 - 12 houses . Couple of the forum members have given their

details to the forum (G Singhji , Punitji, Bhaskarji etc., including myself). Who ever in this list willing to undergo this research to ascertain the accuracy of the BTR of the TOB. Because fructification of event doesn't happen all the time in a Dasa. It is that combination of DBAS, like wise it is that combination of the Sign / Star / Sub Lord or each house which make the Natal chart as per KP so powerful that you can attain the accuracy level of prediction of about 99% as the final veto power is in the hands of our Creator.Guruji KSK in his readers has mentioned that the 10th cusp is the most important one as its the house of one's Karma and I think its also denoted as MC. The efficacy, efficiency and the accuracy of prediction attained by our Guruji & his family members is due to their understanding of the said subject along with divine blessing. KP / Astrology is a science but prediction is an art with divine grace it can do

wonders.Hence this is what I would call as serious research - like how the accounting folks do - Budget vs Actuals. Being an Engineer I would always say it as "Reverse Engineering" and its a wonderful concept which saves a lot of time. So with the events which have already happened in our life are we able to find out those events in those 12 houses so that at the end of the day we can say that the corrected TOB as per method so and so satisfy the conditions of the past event and hence give the 3/6 months prediction to check

the validity of the method used.There are a few esteemed members who would be more than 70 years and during those years we can certainly find many events covering the various houses. And if none wishes, then I would like to lay down (45 years will it be enough) in front of the KP surgeons who can do their research and advise me correct Astro DNA as per KP and be a part of this BTR research Finally thanks for

your patience reading and listening to my personal thoughts (not intended to hurt anyone) about this BTR theory & research --- which may not end. Is the QUEST on, its up to us to decide now ...... New comers & beginners like me, till then let us read the available books which follows KP as taught by our Guruji Shri KSK . Jai Maa Kaali, Devbrato Sarkar"Wealth is not just about making the money BUT making the MAN while he is making money".--- On Sun, 12/20/09, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:Punit Pandey <punitpRe:

What is the correct birth time? Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 9:57 AM

Dear Lajmi ji,

I understand that you are not in agreement with what can be called as correct birth time and hence you question the verification process. I understand your disagreement. Now you tell me how to verify the method(s) you are suggesting? We need some way to verify so many BTR methods.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

Dear Punit,

The entire discussion which seems to have developed into an argument,sadly, arose on : " Whether the correct TOB is the Time of the First breath of a newborn..."

The commonsense answer to this simple question is when it begins to breathe,and live on its own(we normally say a person is dead when he ceases to breathe,he ceases to live),but several people began to give/add several different parameters to consider the Correct TOB...which you,in my opinion,in the name of "research" (needlessly) encouraged.. .and poor Mr.VGR Pavan submitted a protocol/suggestion ,to which you agreed immediately, in my considered opinion,in too much of a hurry...That started the discussion in full swing,one thing leading to another... and that has brought us to this stage now...Isn't it ?

This was,to put the record straight...

Yogesh Lajmi.

GOOD LUCK !

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com

Fri, 18 December, 2009 10:25:14 AM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Dear Lajmi ji,

See my response to you to your another post - http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30095. I pointed out connection between RP and Varahamihira's Nashta Jatakam in year 2003 (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 254) in this forum itself. Now tell me, who is ignorant?

Please read my mail and you will find that I didn't say that method suggested by you is not practicable. It is said by Suresh ji that other methods were not practicable and hence I wanted to understand why so. I think Suresh ji is better person to answer your question of practicable as these are his thoughts.

I would request you to stop such baseless talks and focus on the subject. I do not have any "angst" against anybody. I kept repeating - for me, all KP authors are same and I believe in verification. Whether it is Great Varahamihira or Sage Parahshar or Shri KSK or Shri KSK's soon, I don't follow anybody blindly and it is what Shri KSK has taught us. Your attempt to make people follow KSK's sons blindly is simply against Shri KSK's teachings. You can not and you should not force other people to believe what you believe. You are not a PR agency or publicity agency for a person or a publication and you should not behave like that. We are not here to sell products or promote something, but for KP study, research and development and we should focus on that.

I would not have even approved your emails as those are unnecessarily disturbing nature. We are doing one important BTR methods verification process and your emails are diverting attention from the core subject. Your emails are approved just because I myself was the target of your attack and I thought I must answer all your questions in the forum so that everyone knows about it. But we will all agree that it is sheer waste of our time and forum's time.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

Dear Punit,

Exactly which method suggested by me is not practicable, according to you...

I have already,a few minutes ago,written to you exposing your ignorance about what Varaha Mihira has exactly said about "how to erect Birth Chart of unknown TOB..."

Without being harsh,I must point out that the sooner you realise that there is a whole lot more to Astrology,both Traditional as well as K.P System., than you think you know... the better it will be for ALL of US....!

With best wishes,

Yogesh Lajmi.

GOOD LUCK !

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Thu, 17 December, 2009 10:56:49 AMRe: What is the correct birth time?

Dear Suresh ji,

Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and that is the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind following, Shri KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work 'consistently'.. Instead of blind following, we should verify what works well and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.

Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written. Which method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not practicable and logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should follow only one "stalwart" and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see the file section and you will find that the most promoted method by Lajmi ji (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected by a study. We should not close our eyes and blindly follow anything, it is what I think.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_suresh@ > wrote:

Dear Punitji,Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP followers more..In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort should be instead on finding out if this particular method suggested and advocated by Lajmiji does give correct results and research if any should be on this line.

Suresh Hattangadi

See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.

December 21, 2009

Dear Friend,

1. KP Reader VI, Shri Bhatt's Nakshatara Chintamani and Further Light on

Nakshatara Chintamani would be more helpful for proper KP study. Astrosecrets

and K.P. Part IV is just a collection of the BTR articles mostly from the old A

& A magazines.

2. The controversy about what is the birth time will never be settled.

-K.N. Rao: Timing of Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, 1996, in Preface to the

Second Edition

3. The rectification is the experienced astrologer's serious job in Western and

Vedic astrology. Charles Jayne says, in 'The Technique of Rectification', that

his wife is a very competent astrologer and excellent rectifier and

interpreter,and yet she and he took an credibly long time to rectify her chart.

4. KP predictions have been done with success for the charts without doubt in

the TOB by the consultants. KP is only the sub lord theory and without sub it is

not KP. If the TOB is doubtful, it is better not to rely on the natal chart, and

horary can be opted.

5. Rectification can be done with any RP-based method that " works " for you, and

thorough verification is required as Punit ji has said because the RPs,

consequently rectified TOB can vary depending on astrologer, time and space.

6. There are the TOBs of 32 astrologers in the following article for testing of

the BTR methods and some more can be added for a serious rectifier.

Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.doc

Explanation of the Test Results

7. Our KP brother Dr. Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy, Phd., can't help to run

hundreds of AA charts on the computer program to test the RP-based BTR methods

because of their reliance on the urge of the astrologer.

/message/5025

Thanks and regards,

TW

P.S. BTW for those interested, the said prediction method for billionaires can

be read in the following message:

/message/20315

, Dev Sarkar <sarkar_dbx wrote:

>

> Respected Senior Members,

>

> Many of us have been silent spectators whenever topic about BTR has been

discussed in this forum, which is leading to utter confusion in the minds of

many including to the beginners like me. All these time, I had kept quiet on

this topic is due to my limited knowledge in KP.

>

> I have got involved in the last 6 months or so by reading the latest

> editions of Reader 1,3 &

> 5, Astro Secrets & KP Vol 1, 2 & 3 and waiting for the copy

> of Vol 4, Sub Lord

> Speaks Vol 1, 2 & 3. All these books were bought from Krishman & Co - Madras.

Apart from reading these books, I spend a lot of time at the astrosage tutorials

section and of course read to all the mails exchanged in or forum - and the

journey continue. What I

> would like to say is my point of view with limited knowledge but with a bit

of common sense.

>

> Sirs, there are so many methods of BTR's seen in the astrosage site (10 ways -

I think), let it be " n " number of ways. This is just the first hurdle which we

have to cross to erect a natal chart with KP. Now whether this BTR is right or

wrong CANNOT be proven by just one incident / event in ones life - Can we

justify that ?Â I am sure it is not.

>

> So what is to be done ? Research - OK ----Â on what ---Â and how ?

>

> We are doing research by various Quiz - lets take the latest one BTR 1 & Â 2.

Sir the quiz master / conductor has given the details of the mother, father and

the approx time of the Kid whose BTR is to be done. Now here the question arises

- how far the parents TOB is correct to see the

> fructification of the event called " birth of child " and in the second one the

conductor said the time is correct for the child as it was cesarian and hence

the TOB is correct. Are the parents allowed in the operation theatre or is one

of the parent/relativeÂ a doc who did that cesarian ? Ok let us accept it was,

but again will not everyone look at saving the child and the mother or look at

the watch -- or let us say they look at the watch --- is the time right, what

shows in that watch --- so many questions. Time is relative -- as well as it is

precious --- if it is not, we would not be discussing.

>

> So we get an approx. time which is generally observed on the higher side of

the actual TOB. So we use the Hora / Prasna method (which I

> personaly feel where KP is the strongest) with the help of RP's we find the

TOB - as cited in the various examples in the books mentioned above. As well as

the various methods as suggested by various

> esteemed seniors as listed in the astrosage site.

>

> As TW ji said BTR is a time consuming process -- I call this process as

" Research " if I need to know my Astro DNA as per KP, (by Astro DNA - I mean my

Natal Chart). Each one of us know that we have 2 luminaries and a group of

malefic & benefic Planets spread over 27 constellationÂ but all confined inside

the 12 Houses. May be this is the reason, why G Singh ji (in one of his earlier

mails) has said that how confident are we to consider the CSL to check for an

event ? I feel he is right , because what we have done is just found the TOB (in

whatever method listed) and we erect the chart -- Have we done that process what

> TW ji said -- have we done the research on our own data -- for the events

happened in our life.

>

> I am sure that out of the 12 Houses we would have events for atleast 10 - 12

houses . Couple of the forum members have given their

> details to the forum (G Singhji , Punitji, Bhaskarji etc., including myself).

Who ever in this list willing to undergo this research to ascertain the accuracy

of the BTR of the TOB. Because fructification of event doesn't happen all the

time in a Dasa. It is that combination of DBAS, like wise it is that combination

of the Sign / Star / Sub Lord or each house which make the Natal chart as per KP

so powerful that you can attain the accuracy level of prediction of about 99% as

the final veto power is in the hands of our Creator.

>

> Guruji KSK in his readers has mentioned that the 10th cusp is the most

important one as its the house of one's Karma and I think its also denoted as

MC. The efficacy, efficiency and the accuracy of prediction attained by our

Guruji & his family members is due to their understanding of the said subject

along with divine blessing. KP / Astrology is a science but prediction is an art

with divine grace it can do

> wonders.

>

> Hence this is what I would call as serious research - like how the accounting

folks do - Budget vs Actuals. Being an Engineer I would always say it as

" Reverse Engineering " and its a wonderful concept which saves a lot of time. So

with the events which have already happened in our life are we able to find out

those events in those 12 houses so that at the end of the day we can say that

the corrected TOB as per method so and so satisfy the conditions of the past

event and hence give the 3/6 months prediction to check

> the validity of the method used.

>

> There are a few esteemed members who would be more than 70 years and during

those years we can certainly find many events covering the various houses. And

if none wishes, then I would like to lay down (45 years will it be enough) in

front of the KP surgeons who can do their research and advise me correct Astro

DNA as per KP and be a part of this BTR research

>

> Finally thanks for

> your patience reading and listening to my personal thoughts (not intended to

hurt anyone) about this BTR theory & research --- which may not end. Is the

QUEST on, its up to us to decide now ......

>

> New comers & beginners like me, till then let us read the available books

which follows KP as taught by our Guruji Shri KSK .

>

> Jai Maa Kaali,Â

>

> Devbrato Sarkar

>

> " Wealth is not just about making the money BUT making theÂ MAN while he is

making money " .

>

> --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:

>

> Punit Pandey <punitp

> Re:

> What is the correct birth time?

>

> Sunday, December 20, 2009, 9:57 AM

>

Â

>

Dear Lajmi ji,

> Â

> I understand that you are not in agreement with what can be called as correct

birth time and hence you question the verification process. I understand your

disagreement. Now you tell me how to verify the method(s) you are suggesting? We

need some way to verify so many BTR methods.

>

> Thanks & Regards,

>

> Punit Pandey

>

> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

>

> Â

>

> Dear Punit,

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â The entire discussion which seems to have

developed into an argument,sadly, arose onÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â :Â Â " Whether

theÂ correct TOB is the Time of the First breath of a newborn... "

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â The commonsense answer to this simple

question is when it begins to breathe,and live on its own(we normallyÂ say a

person is dead when he ceases to breathe,he ceases to live),but several people

began to give/add several Â different parameters to consider the Correct

TOB...which you,in my opinion,in the name ofÂ " research " (needlessly)

encouraged.. .and poor Mr.VGR Pavan submitted a protocol/suggestion ,to which

you agreed immediately, in my considered opinion,in too much of a hurry...That

started the discussion in full swing,one thing leading to another... and that

has brought us to this stage now...Isn't it ?

>

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â This was,to put the record straight...

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Yogesh Lajmi.

>

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â \

Â Â Â Â GOOD LUCK !

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

> @gro ups.com

>

> Fri, 18 December, 2009 10:25:14 AM

>

> Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

> Â

>

> Dear Lajmi ji,

>

> Â

> See my response to you to your another post - http://groups. /

group/k_p_ system/message/ 30095. I pointed out connection between RP and

Varahamihira's Nashta Jatakam in year 2003 (http://groups. / group/k_p_

system/message/ 254) in this forum itself. Now tell me, who is ignorant?

>

> Â

> Please read my mail and you will find that I didn't say that method suggested

by you is not practicable. It is said by Suresh ji that other methods were not

practicable and hence I wanted to understand why so. I think Suresh ji is better

person to answer your question of practicable as these are his thoughts.

>

> Â

> I would request you to stop such baseless talks and focus on the subject. I do

not have any " angst " against anybody. I kept repeating -Â for me, all KP authors

are same and I believe in verification. Whether it is Great Varahamihira or Sage

Parahshar or Shri KSK or Shri KSK's soon, I don't follow anybody blindly and it

is what Shri KSK has taught us. Your attempt to make people follow KSK's sons

blindly is simply against Shri KSK's teachings. You can not and you should not

force other people to believe what you believe. You are not a PR agency or

publicity agency for a person or a publication and you should not behave like

that. We are not here to sell products or promote something, but for KP study,

research and development and we should focus on that.

>

> Â

> I would not have even approved your emails as those are unnecessarily

disturbing nature. We are doing one important BTR methods verification process

and your emails are diverting attention from the core subject. Your emails are

approved just becauseÂ I myself wasÂ the target of your attackÂ and IÂ thought

IÂ must answer all your questions in the forum so that everyone knows about it.

But we will all agree that it is sheer waste of our time and forum's time.

>

> Thanks & Regards,

>

> Punit Pandey

>

> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

>

> Â

Dear Punit,

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Exactly which method suggested by me is not

practicable, according to you...

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â I have already,a few minutes ago,written to you

exposing your ignorance about what Varaha Mihira has exactly said about " how to

erect Birth Chart of unknown TOB... "

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Without being harsh,I must point out that the

sooner you realise that there is a whole lot more to Astrology,both Traditional

as well as K.P System., than you think you know... the better it will be for ALL

of US....!

>

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â With best wishes,

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Yogesh Lajmi.

>

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â \

Â Â Â Â GOOD LUCK !

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

>

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

> @gro ups.com

>

> Thu, 17 December, 2009 10:56:49 AM

> Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

> Â

>

> Dear Suresh ji,

>

> Â

> Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and that is

the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind following, Shri

KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work

'consistently'.. Instead of blind following, we should verify what works well

and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.

>

> Â

> Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written. Which method

suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not practicable and

logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should follow only one " stalwart "

and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see the file section and you will

find that the most promoted method by Lajmi ji (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected

by a study. WeÂ should notÂ close our eyes and blindly follow anything, it is

what I think.

>

> Thanks & Regards,

>

> Punit Pandey

>

> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_suresh@ > wrote:

>

> Â

>

> Dear Punitji,

> Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP

followers more..In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is

practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this matter is

like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular

method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist

further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort should be instead on

finding out if this particular method suggested and advocated by Lajmiji does

give correct results and research if any should be on this line.

>

> Suresh Hattangadi

>

See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.

>

See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.

>

December 21, 2009

Respected TW ji,Thanks for your feedback as well as the link which you have sent - Shri ARR ji comments are too good to prove the Divine intervention & the last say on any predictions. Which reminds me of Shri Rohnirajan ji's word " GOD is the Greatest Artist and we human are just painters with brush held in our hand waiting for his instructions". Sir, I do agree that "Sub Lord Speaks" is what is KP, but what I have noticed is that Horary is more widely used than the Natal Chart - until otherwise the TOB is accurate - so that the CSL of the natal chart can speak. After reading Shri ARR

ji's reply - the urge have become much stronger in me to know my correct TOB. Despite the fact that Shri Lajmi ji has done the BTR for me (Freely - for which I am highly indebted), but what I feel is that certain things are not falling in place - especially my 10 & 11 House / Bhava. Since there is some turmoil happening in my work front - hence my concentration is more on these houses. But frankly speaking, I need to verify with all the concerned houses where the events have taken place. My current situation & the strong urge is making to concentrate on those houses and hence I cant justify or comment more on the rectified time - I need to do more research on my chart using the other BTR techniques.Thanks for your support

which you shower on the beginner's / new comers to KP by quoting the appropriate links and reference . My Pranams.Jai Maa Kaali, Devbrato Sarkar"Wealth is not just about making the money BUT making the MAN while he is making money".--- On Mon, 12/21/09, TW <tw853 wrote:TW <tw853 Re: Is BTR enough to decide that BTR method is Correct ? Date: Monday, December 21, 2009, 2:47 AM

Dear Friend,

1. KP Reader VI, Shri Bhatt's Nakshatara Chintamani and Further Light on Nakshatara Chintamani would be more helpful for proper KP study. Astrosecrets and K.P. Part IV is just a collection of the BTR articles mostly from the old A & A magazines.

2. The controversy about what is the birth time will never be settled.

-K.N. Rao: Timing of Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, 1996, in Preface to the Second Edition

3. The rectification is the experienced astrologer's serious job in Western and Vedic astrology. Charles Jayne says, in 'The Technique of Rectification' , that his wife is a very competent astrologer and excellent rectifier and interpreter, and yet she and he took an credibly long time to rectify her chart.

4. KP predictions have been done with success for the charts without doubt in the TOB by the consultants. KP is only the sub lord theory and without sub it is not KP. If the TOB is doubtful, it is better not to rely on the natal chart, and horary can be opted.

5. Rectification can be done with any RP-based method that "works" for you, and thorough verification is required as Punit ji has said because the RPs, consequently rectified TOB can vary depending on astrologer, time and space.

6. There are the TOBs of 32 astrologers in the following article for testing of the BTR methods and some more can be added for a serious rectifier.

Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.doc

Explanation of the Test Results

7. Our KP brother Dr. Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy, Phd., can't help to run hundreds of AA charts on the computer program to test the RP-based BTR methods because of their reliance on the urge of the astrologer.

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 5025

Thanks and regards,

TW

P.S. BTW for those interested, the said prediction method for billionaires can be read in the following message:

http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ message/20315

@gro ups.com, Dev Sarkar <sarkar_dbx@ ...> wrote:

>

> Respected Senior Members,

>

> Many of us have been silent spectators whenever topic about BTR has been discussed in this forum, which is leading to utter confusion in the minds of many including to the beginners like me. All these time, I had kept quiet on this topic is due to my limited knowledge in KP.

>

> I have got involved in the last 6 months or so by reading the latest

> editions of Reader 1,3 &

> 5, Astro Secrets & KP Vol 1, 2 & 3 and waiting for the copy

> of Vol 4, Sub Lord

> Speaks Vol 1, 2 & 3. All these books were bought from Krishman & Co - Madras. Apart from reading these books, I spend a lot of time at the astrosage tutorials section and of course read to all the mails exchanged in or forum - and the journey continue. What I

> would like to say is my point of view with limited knowledge but with a bit of common sense.

>

> Sirs, there are so many methods of BTR's seen in the astrosage site (10 ways - I think), let it be "n" number of ways. This is just the first hurdle which we have to cross to erect a natal chart with KP. Now whether this BTR is right or wrong CANNOT be proven by just one incident / event in ones life - Can we justify that ?Ã‚ I am sure it is not.

>

> So what is to be done ? Research - OK ----Ã‚ on what ---Ã‚ and how ?

>

> We are doing research by various Quiz - lets take the latest one BTR 1 & Ã‚ 2. Sir the quiz master / conductor has given the details of the mother, father and the approx time of the Kid whose BTR is to be done. Now here the question arises - how far the parents TOB is correct to see the

> fructification of the event called "birth of child" and in the second one the conductor said the time is correct for the child as it was cesarian and hence the TOB is correct. Are the parents allowed in the operation theatre or is one of the parent/relativeÃ‚ a doc who did that cesarian ? Ok let us accept it was, but again will not everyone look at saving the child and the mother or look at the watch -- or let us say they look at the watch --- is the time right, what shows in that watch --- so many questions. Time is relative -- as well as it is precious --- if it is not, we would not be discussing.

>

> So we get an approx. time which is generally observed on the higher side of the actual TOB. So we use the Hora / Prasna method (which I

> personaly feel where KP is the strongest) with the help of RP's we find the TOB - as cited in the various examples in the books mentioned above. As well as the various methods as suggested by various

> esteemed seniors as listed in the astrosage site.

>

> As TW ji said BTR is a time consuming process -- I call this process as "Research" if I need to know my Astro DNA as per KP, (by Astro DNA - I mean my Natal Chart). Each one of us know that we have 2 luminaries and a group of malefic & benefic Planets spread over 27 constellationÃ‚ but all confined inside the 12 Houses. May be this is the reason, why G Singh ji (in one of his earlier mails) has said that how confident are we to consider the CSL to check for an event ? I feel he is right , because what we have done is just found the TOB (in whatever method listed) and we erect the chart -- Have we done that process what

> TW ji said -- have we done the research on our own data -- for the events happened in our life.

>

> I am sure that out of the 12 Houses we would have events for atleast 10 - 12 houses . Couple of the forum members have given their

> details to the forum (G Singhji , Punitji, Bhaskarji etc., including myself). Who ever in this list willing to undergo this research to ascertain the accuracy of the BTR of the TOB. Because fructification of event doesn't happen all the time in a Dasa. It is that combination of DBAS, like wise it is that combination of the Sign / Star / Sub Lord or each house which make the Natal chart as per KP so powerful that you can attain the accuracy level of prediction of about 99% as the final veto power is in the hands of our Creator.

>

> Guruji KSK in his readers has mentioned that the 10th cusp is the most important one as its the house of one's Karma and I think its also denoted as MC. The efficacy, efficiency and the accuracy of prediction attained by our Guruji & his family members is due to their understanding of the said subject along with divine blessing. KP / Astrology is a science but prediction is an art with divine grace it can do

> wonders.

>

> Hence this is what I would call as serious research - like how the accounting folks do - Budget vs Actuals. Being an Engineer I would always say it as "Reverse Engineering" and its a wonderful concept which saves a lot of time. So with the events which have already happened in our life are we able to find out those events in those 12 houses so that at the end of the day we can say that the corrected TOB as per method so and so satisfy the conditions of the past event and hence give the 3/6 months prediction to check

> the validity of the method used.

>

> There are a few esteemed members who would be more than 70 years and during those years we can certainly find many events covering the various houses. And if none wishes, then I would like to lay down (45 years will it be enough) in front of the KP surgeons who can do their research and advise me correct Astro DNA as per KP and be a part of this BTR research

>

> Finally thanks for

> your patience reading and listening to my personal thoughts (not intended to hurt anyone) about this BTR theory & research --- which may not end. Is the QUEST on, its up to us to decide now ......

>

> New comers & beginners like me, till then let us read the available books which follows KP as taught by our Guruji Shri KSK .

>

> Jai Maa Kaali,Ã‚

>

> Devbrato Sarkar

>

> "Wealth is not just about making the money BUT making theÃ‚ MAN while he is making money".

>

> --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:

>

> Punit Pandey <punitp

> Re:

> What is the correct birth time?

> @gro ups.com

> Sunday, December 20, 2009, 9:57 AM

>

> Ã‚

>

> Dear Lajmi ji,

> Ã‚

> I understand that you are not in agreement with what can be called as correct birth time and hence you question the verification process. I understand your disagreement. Now you tell me how to verify the method(s) you are suggesting? We need some way to verify so many BTR methods.

>

> Thanks & Regards,

>

> Punit Pandey

>

> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

>

> Ã‚

>

> Dear Punit,

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ The entire discussion which seems to have developed into an argument,sadly, arose onÃ‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ :Ã‚ Ã‚ " Whether theÃ‚ correct TOB is the Time of the First breath of a newborn..."

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ The commonsense answer to this simple question is when it begins to breathe,and live on its own(we normallyÃ‚ say a person is dead when he ceases to breathe,he ceases to live),but several people began to give/add several Ã‚ different parameters to consider the Correct TOB...which you,in my opinion,in the name ofÃ‚ "research" (needlessly) encouraged.. .and poor Mr.VGR Pavan submitted a protocol/suggestion ,to which you agreed immediately, in my considered opinion,in too much of a hurry...That started the discussion in full swing,one thing leading to another... and that has brought us to this stage now...Isn't it ?

>

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ This was,to put the record straight...

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Yogesh Lajmi.

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ GOOD LUCK !

>

> Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

> @gro ups.com

>

> Fri, 18 December, 2009 10:25:14 AM

>

> Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

> Ã‚

>

> Dear Lajmi ji,

>

> Ã‚

> See my response to you to your another post - http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30095. I pointed out connection between RP and Varahamihira' s Nashta Jatakam in year 2003 (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 254) in this forum itself. Now tell me, who is ignorant?

>

> Ã‚

> Please read my mail and you will find that I didn't say that method suggested by you is not practicable. It is said by Suresh ji that other methods were not practicable and hence I wanted to understand why so. I think Suresh ji is better person to answer your question of practicable as these are his thoughts.

>

> Ã‚

> I would request you to stop such baseless talks and focus on the subject. I do not have any "angst" against anybody. I kept repeating -Ã‚ for me, all KP authors are same and I believe in verification. Whether it is Great Varahamihira or Sage Parahshar or Shri KSK or Shri KSK's soon, I don't follow anybody blindly and it is what Shri KSK has taught us. Your attempt to make people follow KSK's sons blindly is simply against Shri KSK's teachings. You can not and you should not force other people to believe what you believe. You are not a PR agency or publicity agency for a person or a publication and you should not behave like that. We are not here to sell products or promote something, but for KP study, research and development and we should focus on that.

>

> Ã‚

> I would not have even approved your emails as those are unnecessarily disturbing nature. We are doing one important BTR methods verification process and your emails are diverting attention from the core subject. Your emails are approved just becauseÃ‚ I myself wasÃ‚ the target of your attackÃ‚ and IÃ‚ thought IÃ‚ must answer all your questions in the forum so that everyone knows about it. But we will all agree that it is sheer waste of our time and forum's time.

>

> Thanks & Regards,

>

> Punit Pandey

>

> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

>

> Ã‚

>

> Dear Punit,

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Exactly which method suggested by me is not practicable, according to you...

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ I have already,a few minutes ago,written to you exposing your ignorance about what Varaha Mihira has exactly said about "how to erect Birth Chart of unknown TOB..."

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Without being harsh,I must point out that the sooner you realise that there is a whole lot more to Astrology,both Traditional as well as K.P System., than you think you know... the better it will be for ALL of US....!

>

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ With best wishes,

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Yogesh Lajmi.

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ GOOD LUCK !

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚

>

> Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

> @gro ups.com

>

> Thu, 17 December, 2009 10:56:49 AM

> Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

> Ã‚

>

> Dear Suresh ji,

>

> Ã‚

> Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and that is the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind following, Shri KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work 'consistently' .. Instead of blind following, we should verify what works well and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.

>

> Ã‚

> Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written. Which method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not practicable and logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should follow only one "stalwart" and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see the file section and you will find that the most promoted method by Lajmi ji (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected by a study. WeÃ‚ should notÃ‚ close our eyes and blindly follow anything, it is what I think.

>

> Thanks & Regards,

>

> Punit Pandey

>

> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@ > wrote:

>

> Ã‚

>

> Dear Punitji,

> Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP followers more..In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort should be instead on finding out if this particular method suggested and advocated by Lajmiji does give correct results and research if any should be on this line.

>

> Suresh Hattangadi

>

> See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.

>

> See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.

>

December 21, 2009

Dear Punit,

Thank you for asking me this question..."so late in the day"... Never mind,pl. read on...

First of all test it in the cases of persons whom you know very well,especially theire life's 'Milestones' and apply the BTR method to the TOB you already know and have have...and erect the CORRECTED K.P. Chart...this should be easy...adjusting the TOB + or - ,such that you arrive at an Ascendant,whose sublord and sub-sublord appear as the Moon's starlord and sublord ,respectively...Simple isn't it ?

Next you pl. match the various major events in that took place in that person's life,with the Cuspal sublords as well as the Vimshottari Dasa...ensuring that you use only the New K.P. Ayanamsa only...

After doing this exercise with atleast 5 -10 horoscopes of Known people or your own self...I am very confident that ALL your doubts,misgivings etc., regarding the BTR method recommended by me is very correct...

Looking forward to your completing such a study...and putting up your findings, on this site, thereafter ...

With the very best wishes,

Yogesh Lajmi.

GOOD LUCK !

TW <tw853 Sent: Mon, 21 December, 2009 8:17:52 AM Re: Is BTR enough to decide that BTR method is Correct ?

Dear Friend,1. KP Reader VI, Shri Bhatt's Nakshatara Chintamani and Further Light on Nakshatara Chintamani would be more helpful for proper KP study. Astrosecrets and K.P. Part IV is just a collection of the BTR articles mostly from the old A & A magazines. 2. The controversy about what is the birth time will never be settled.-K.N. Rao: Timing of Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, 1996, in Preface to the Second Edition3. The rectification is the experienced astrologer's serious job in Western and Vedic astrology. Charles Jayne says, in 'The Technique of Rectification' , that his wife is a very competent astrologer and excellent rectifier and interpreter, and yet she and he took an credibly long time to rectify her chart.4. KP predictions have been done with success for the charts without doubt in the TOB by the consultants. KP is only the sub lord theory and without sub it is not KP. If the TOB is doubtful, it is better not to

rely on the natal chart, and horary can be opted. 5. Rectification can be done with any RP-based method that "works" for you, and thorough verification is required as Punit ji has said because the RPs, consequently rectified TOB can vary depending on astrologer, time and space. 6. There are the TOBs of 32 astrologers in the following article for testing of the BTR methods and some more can be added for a serious rectifier.Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.docExplanation of the Test Results7. Our KP brother Dr. Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy, Phd., can't help to run hundreds of AA charts on the computer program to test the RP-based BTR methods because of their reliance on the urge of the astrologer.http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 5025 Thanks and regards,TWP.S. BTW for those interested,

the said prediction method for billionaires can be read in the following message: http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ message/20315 @gro ups.com, Dev Sarkar <sarkar_dbx@ ...> wrote:>> Respected Senior Members,> > Many of us have been silent spectators whenever topic about BTR has been discussed in this forum, which is leading to utter confusion in the minds of many including to the beginners like me. All these time, I had kept quiet on this topic is due to my limited knowledge in KP. > > I have got involved in the last 6 months or so by reading the latest> editions of Reader 1,3 & > 5,

Astro Secrets & KP Vol 1, 2 & 3 and waiting for the copy> of Vol 4, Sub Lord> Speaks Vol 1, 2 & 3. All these books were bought from Krishman & Co - Madras. Apart from reading these books, I spend a lot of time at the astrosage tutorials section and of course read to all the mails exchanged in or forum - and the journey continue. What I> would like to say is my point of view with limited knowledge but with a bit of common sense.> > Sirs, there are so many methods of BTR's seen in the astrosage site (10 ways - I think), let it be "n" number of ways. This is just the first hurdle which we have to cross to erect a natal chart with KP. Now whether this BTR is right or wrong CANNOT be proven by just one incident / event in ones life - Can we justify that ?Ã‚ I am sure it is not.> > So what is to be done ? Research - OK ----Ã‚ on what ---Ã‚ and how ? > > We are

doing research by various Quiz - lets take the latest one BTR 1 & Ã‚ 2. Sir the quiz master / conductor has given the details of the mother, father and the approx time of the Kid whose BTR is to be done. Now here the question arises - how far the parents TOB is correct to see the> fructification of the event called "birth of child" and in the second one the conductor said the time is correct for the child as it was cesarian and hence the TOB is correct. Are the parents allowed in the operation theatre or is one of the parent/relativeÃ‚ a doc who did that cesarian ? Ok let us accept it was, but again will not everyone look at saving the child and the mother or look at the watch -- or let us say they look at the watch --- is the time right, what shows in that watch --- so many questions. Time is relative -- as well as it is precious --- if it is not, we would not be discussing.> > So we get an approx. time which is

generally observed on the higher side of the actual TOB. So we use the Hora / Prasna method (which I> personaly feel where KP is the strongest) with the help of RP's we find the TOB - as cited in the various examples in the books mentioned above. As well as the various methods as suggested by various> esteemed seniors as listed in the astrosage site.> > As TW ji said BTR is a time consuming process -- I call this process as "Research" if I need to know my Astro DNA as per KP, (by Astro DNA - I mean my Natal Chart). Each one of us know that we have 2 luminaries and a group of malefic & benefic Planets spread over 27 constellationÃ‚ but all confined inside the 12 Houses. May be this is the reason, why G Singh ji (in one of his earlier mails) has said that how confident are we to consider the CSL to check for an event ? I feel he is right , because what we have done is just found the TOB (in whatever method listed) and

we erect the chart -- Have we done that process what> TW ji said -- have we done the research on our own data -- for the events happened in our life. > > I am sure that out of the 12 Houses we would have events for atleast 10 - 12 houses . Couple of the forum members have given their> details to the forum (G Singhji , Punitji, Bhaskarji etc., including myself). Who ever in this list willing to undergo this research to ascertain the accuracy of the BTR of the TOB. Because fructification of event doesn't happen all the time in a Dasa. It is that combination of DBAS, like wise it is that combination of the Sign / Star / Sub Lord or each house which make the Natal chart as per KP so powerful that you can attain the accuracy level of prediction of about 99% as the final veto power is in the hands of our Creator.> > Guruji KSK in his readers has mentioned that the 10th cusp is the most important one as its the house

of one's Karma and I think its also denoted as MC. The efficacy, efficiency and the accuracy of prediction attained by our Guruji & his family members is due to their understanding of the said subject along with divine blessing. KP / Astrology is a science but prediction is an art with divine grace it can do> wonders.> > Hence this is what I would call as serious research - like how the accounting folks do - Budget vs Actuals. Being an Engineer I would always say it as "Reverse Engineering" and its a wonderful concept which saves a lot of time. So with the events which have already happened in our life are we able to find out those events in those 12 houses so that at the end of the day we can say that the corrected TOB as per method so and so satisfy the conditions of the past event and hence give the 3/6 months prediction to check> the validity of the method used.> > There are a few esteemed members who

would be more than 70 years and during those years we can certainly find many events covering the various houses. And if none wishes, then I would like to lay down (45 years will it be enough) in front of the KP surgeons who can do their research and advise me correct Astro DNA as per KP and be a part of this BTR research > > Finally thanks for> your patience reading and listening to my personal thoughts (not intended to hurt anyone) about this BTR theory & research --- which may not end. Is the QUEST on, its up to us to decide now ...... > > New comers & beginners like me, till then let us read the available books which follows KP as taught by our Guruji Shri KSK . > > Jai Maa Kaali,Ã‚ > > Devbrato Sarkar> > "Wealth is not just about making the money BUT making theÃ‚ MAN while he is making money".> > --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Punit Pandey

<punitp wrote:> > Punit Pandey <punitp.>> Re:> What is the correct birth time?> @gro ups.com> Sunday, December 20, 2009, 9:57 AM> > > > > > > > Ã‚ > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lajmi ji,> Ã‚ > I understand that you are not in agreement with what can be called as correct birth time and hence you question the verification process. I understand your disagreement. Now you tell me how to verify the method(s) you are suggesting? We need some way to verify so many BTR methods. > > > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > >

> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:> > > Ã‚ > > > > > > Dear Punit,> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ The entire discussion which seems to have developed into an argument,sadly, arose onÃ‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ :Ã‚ Ã‚ " Whether theÃ‚ correct TOB is the Time of the First breath of a newborn..."> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ The commonsense answer to this simple question is when it begins to breathe,and live on its own(we normallyÃ‚ say a person is dead when he ceases to breathe,he ceases to live),but several people began to give/add several

Ã‚ different parameters to consider the Correct TOB...which you,in my opinion,in the name ofÃ‚ "research" (needlessly) encouraged... .and poor Mr.VGR Pavan submitted a protocol/suggestion ,to which you agreed immediately, in my considered opinion,in too much of a hurry...That started the discussion in full swing,one thing leading to another... and that has brought us to this stage now...Isn't it ?> > Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ This was,to put the record straight...> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Yogesh Lajmi.>

Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ GOOD LUCK !> > > > > > > Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>> @gro ups.com> > Fri, 18 December, 2009 10:25:14 AM > > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > Ã‚ > > > Dear Lajmi ji,> > Ã‚ > See my response to you to your another post - http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30095. I pointed out connection between RP and Varahamihira' s

Nashta Jatakam in year 2003 (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 254) in this forum itself. Now tell me, who is ignorant?> > Ã‚ > Please read my mail and you will find that I didn't say that method suggested by you is not practicable. It is said by Suresh ji that other methods were not practicable and hence I wanted to understand why so. I think Suresh ji is better person to answer your question of practicable as these are his thoughts. > > Ã‚ > I would request you to stop such baseless talks and focus on the subject. I do not have any "angst" against anybody. I kept repeating -Ã‚ for me, all KP authors are same and I believe in verification. Whether it is Great Varahamihira or Sage Parahshar or Shri KSK or Shri KSK's soon, I don't follow anybody blindly and it is what Shri KSK has taught us. Your attempt to make people

follow KSK's sons blindly is simply against Shri KSK's teachings. You can not and you should not force other people to believe what you believe. You are not a PR agency or publicity agency for a person or a publication and you should not behave like that. We are not here to sell products or promote something, but for KP study, research and development and we should focus on that. > > Ã‚ > I would not have even approved your emails as those are unnecessarily disturbing nature. We are doing one important BTR methods verification process and your emails are diverting attention from the core subject. Your emails are approved just becauseÃ‚ I myself wasÃ‚ the target of your attackÃ‚ and IÃ‚ thought IÃ‚ must answer all your questions in the forum so that everyone knows about it. But we will all agree that it is sheer waste of our time and forum's time. > > > Thanks & Regards,>

> Punit Pandey> > > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:> > > Ã‚ > > > > > > > Dear Punit,> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Exactly which method suggested by me is not practicable, according to you...> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ I have already,a few minutes ago,written to you exposing your ignorance about what Varaha Mihira has exactly said about "how to erect Birth Chart of unknown TOB..."> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Without being harsh,I must point out that the sooner you realise that

there is a whole lot more to Astrology,both Traditional as well as K.P System., than you think you know... the better it will be for ALL of US....!> > Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ With best wishes,> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Yogesh Lajmi.> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ GOOD LUCK !> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ > > > > >

> > > Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>> @gro ups.com > > Thu, 17 December, 2009 10:56:49 AM> Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > Ã‚ > > > > Dear Suresh ji,> > Ã‚ > Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and that is the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind following, Shri KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work 'consistently' .. Instead of blind following, we should verify what works well and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.> > Ã‚ > Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written. Which method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not practicable and logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should follow

only one "stalwart" and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see the file section and you will find that the most promoted method by Lajmi ji (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected by a study. WeÃ‚ should notÃ‚ close our eyes and blindly follow anything, it is what I think. > > > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > > > On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@ > wrote:> > > Ã‚ > > > > Dear Punitji,> Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP followers more..In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further

research on the subject is surprising.Our effort should be instead on finding out if this particular method suggested and advocated by Lajmiji does give correct results and research if any should be on this line.> > Suresh Hattangadi > > > > > > > > > > > > See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.> > > > > > > > > > See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.>

See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.

December 21, 2009

Dear friends,The need for RBT comes only when the Birth Time is DOUBTFUL. Most

of the BTs of the present young generation are not found doubtful since

those BTs are issued by the hospital authorities as per their records.

The BTs of 50years and more old generation, mostly do not have

recorded times and hence DOUBT arises mostly in such cases.Even in

hospital recorded time also will not serve the purpose for KP

astrologer, due to obvious reasons. The customer can have doubt about

the Birth Time only if he knows something about KP which needs accuracy

in BT compared to traditional astrology.Hence most of the customers

think that the BT as reported by hospital is correct. God only knows

whether it is the time of first cry for which KP astrologers make lot

of CRY. Thanks & Regards,Naidu KPK. P. Naidu,Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta,VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.--- On Mon, 21/12/09, TW <tw853 wrote:TW <tw853 Re: Is BTR enough to decide that BTR method is Correct ? Date: Monday, 21 December, 2009, 8:17 AM

Dear Friend,

1. KP Reader VI, Shri Bhatt's Nakshatara Chintamani and Further Light on Nakshatara Chintamani would be more helpful for proper KP study. Astrosecrets and K.P. Part IV is just a collection of the BTR articles mostly from the old A & A magazines.

2. The controversy about what is the birth time will never be settled.

-K.N. Rao: Timing of Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, 1996, in Preface to the Second Edition

3. The rectification is the experienced astrologer's serious job in Western and Vedic astrology. Charles Jayne says, in 'The Technique of Rectification' , that his wife is a very competent astrologer and excellent rectifier and interpreter, and yet she and he took an credibly long time to rectify her chart.

4. KP predictions have been done with success for the charts without doubt in the TOB by the consultants. KP is only the sub lord theory and without sub it is not KP. If the TOB is doubtful, it is better not to rely on the natal chart, and horary can be opted.

5. Rectification can be done with any RP-based method that "works" for you, and thorough verification is required as Punit ji has said because the RPs, consequently rectified TOB can vary depending on astrologer, time and space.

6. There are the TOBs of 32 astrologers in the following article for testing of the BTR methods and some more can be added for a serious rectifier.

Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.doc

Explanation of the Test Results

7. Our KP brother Dr. Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy, Phd., can't help to run hundreds of AA charts on the computer program to test the RP-based BTR methods because of their reliance on the urge of the astrologer.

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 5025

Thanks and regards,

TW

P.S. BTW for those interested, the said prediction method for billionaires can be read in the following message:

http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ message/20315

@gro ups.com, Dev Sarkar <sarkar_dbx@ ...> wrote:

>

> Respected Senior Members,

>

> Many of us have been silent spectators whenever topic about BTR has been discussed in this forum, which is leading to utter confusion in the minds of many including to the beginners like me. All these time, I had kept quiet on this topic is due to my limited knowledge in KP.

>

> I have got involved in the last 6 months or so by reading the latest

> editions of Reader 1,3 &

> 5, Astro Secrets & KP Vol 1, 2 & 3 and waiting for the copy

> of Vol 4, Sub Lord

> Speaks Vol 1, 2 & 3. All these books were bought from Krishman & Co - Madras. Apart from reading these books, I spend a lot of time at the astrosage tutorials section and of course read to all the mails exchanged in or forum - and the journey continue. What I

> would like to say is my point of view with limited knowledge but with a bit of common sense.

>

> Sirs, there are so many methods of BTR's seen in the astrosage site (10 ways - I think), let it be "n" number of ways. This is just the first hurdle which we have to cross to erect a natal chart with KP. Now whether this BTR is right or wrong CANNOT be proven by just one incident / event in ones life - Can we justify that ?Ã‚ I am sure it is not.

>

> So what is to be done ? Research - OK ----Ã‚ on what ---Ã‚ and how ?

>

> We are doing research by various Quiz - lets take the latest one BTR 1 & Ã‚ 2. Sir the quiz master / conductor has given the details of the mother, father and the approx time of the Kid whose BTR is to be done. Now here the question arises - how far the parents TOB is correct to see the

> fructification of the event called "birth of child" and in the second one the conductor said the time is correct for the child as it was cesarian and hence the TOB is correct. Are the parents allowed in the operation theatre or is one of the parent/relativeÃ‚ a doc who did that cesarian ? Ok let us accept it was, but again will not everyone look at saving the child and the mother or look at the watch -- or let us say they look at the watch --- is the time right, what shows in that watch --- so many questions. Time is relative -- as well as it is precious --- if it is not, we would not be discussing.

>

> So we get an approx. time which is generally observed on the higher side of the actual TOB. So we use the Hora / Prasna method (which I

> personaly feel where KP is the strongest) with the help of RP's we find the TOB - as cited in the various examples in the books mentioned above. As well as the various methods as suggested by various

> esteemed seniors as listed in the astrosage site.

>

> As TW ji said BTR is a time consuming process -- I call this process as "Research" if I need to know my Astro DNA as per KP, (by Astro DNA - I mean my Natal Chart). Each one of us know that we have 2 luminaries and a group of malefic & benefic Planets spread over 27 constellationÃ‚ but all confined inside the 12 Houses. May be this is the reason, why G Singh ji (in one of his earlier mails) has said that how confident are we to consider the CSL to check for an event ? I feel he is right , because what we have done is just found the TOB (in whatever method listed) and we erect the chart -- Have we done that process what

> TW ji said -- have we done the research on our own data -- for the events happened in our life.

>

> I am sure that out of the 12 Houses we would have events for atleast 10 - 12 houses . Couple of the forum members have given their

> details to the forum (G Singhji , Punitji, Bhaskarji etc., including myself). Who ever in this list willing to undergo this research to ascertain the accuracy of the BTR of the TOB. Because fructification of event doesn't happen all the time in a Dasa. It is that combination of DBAS, like wise it is that combination of the Sign / Star / Sub Lord or each house which make the Natal chart as per KP so powerful that you can attain the accuracy level of prediction of about 99% as the final veto power is in the hands of our Creator.

>

> Guruji KSK in his readers has mentioned that the 10th cusp is the most important one as its the house of one's Karma and I think its also denoted as MC. The efficacy, efficiency and the accuracy of prediction attained by our Guruji & his family members is due to their understanding of the said subject along with divine blessing. KP / Astrology is a science but prediction is an art with divine grace it can do

> wonders.

>

> Hence this is what I would call as serious research - like how the accounting folks do - Budget vs Actuals. Being an Engineer I would always say it as "Reverse Engineering" and its a wonderful concept which saves a lot of time. So with the events which have already happened in our life are we able to find out those events in those 12 houses so that at the end of the day we can say that the corrected TOB as per method so and so satisfy the conditions of the past event and hence give the 3/6 months prediction to check

> the validity of the method used.

>

> There are a few esteemed members who would be more than 70 years and during those years we can certainly find many events covering the various houses. And if none wishes, then I would like to lay down (45 years will it be enough) in front of the KP surgeons who can do their research and advise me correct Astro DNA as per KP and be a part of this BTR research

>

> Finally thanks for

> your patience reading and listening to my personal thoughts (not intended to hurt anyone) about this BTR theory & research --- which may not end. Is the QUEST on, its up to us to decide now ......

>

> New comers & beginners like me, till then let us read the available books which follows KP as taught by our Guruji Shri KSK .

>

> Jai Maa Kaali,Ã‚

>

> Devbrato Sarkar

>

> "Wealth is not just about making the money BUT making theÃ‚ MAN while he is making money".

>

> --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:

>

> Punit Pandey <punitp

> Re:

> What is the correct birth time?

> @gro ups.com

> Sunday, December 20, 2009, 9:57 AM

>

> Ã‚

>

> Dear Lajmi ji,

> Ã‚

> I understand that you are not in agreement with what can be called as correct birth time and hence you question the verification process. I understand your disagreement. Now you tell me how to verify the method(s) you are suggesting? We need some way to verify so many BTR methods.

>

> Thanks & Regards,

>

> Punit Pandey

>

> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

>

> Ã‚

>

> Dear Punit,

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ The entire discussion which seems to have developed into an argument,sadly, arose onÃ‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ :Ã‚ Ã‚ " Whether theÃ‚ correct TOB is the Time of the First breath of a newborn..."

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ The commonsense answer to this simple question is when it begins to breathe,and live on its own(we normallyÃ‚ say a person is dead when he ceases to breathe,he ceases to live),but several people began to give/add several Ã‚ different parameters to consider the Correct TOB...which you,in my opinion,in the name ofÃ‚ "research" (needlessly) encouraged.. .and poor Mr.VGR Pavan submitted a protocol/suggestion ,to which you agreed immediately, in my considered opinion,in too much of a hurry...That started the discussion in full swing,one thing leading to another... and that has brought us to this stage now...Isn't it ?

>

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ This was,to put the record straight...

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Yogesh Lajmi.

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ GOOD LUCK !

>

> Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

> @gro ups.com

>

> Fri, 18 December, 2009 10:25:14 AM

>

> Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

> Ã‚

>

> Dear Lajmi ji,

>

> Ã‚

> See my response to you to your another post - http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30095. I pointed out connection between RP and Varahamihira' s Nashta Jatakam in year 2003 (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 254) in this forum itself. Now tell me, who is ignorant?

>

> Ã‚

> Please read my mail and you will find that I didn't say that method suggested by you is not practicable. It is said by Suresh ji that other methods were not practicable and hence I wanted to understand why so. I think Suresh ji is better person to answer your question of practicable as these are his thoughts.

>

> Ã‚

> I would request you to stop such baseless talks and focus on the subject. I do not have any "angst" against anybody. I kept repeating -Ã‚ for me, all KP authors are same and I believe in verification. Whether it is Great Varahamihira or Sage Parahshar or Shri KSK or Shri KSK's soon, I don't follow anybody blindly and it is what Shri KSK has taught us. Your attempt to make people follow KSK's sons blindly is simply against Shri KSK's teachings. You can not and you should not force other people to believe what you believe. You are not a PR agency or publicity agency for a person or a publication and you should not behave like that. We are not here to sell products or promote something, but for KP study, research and development and we should focus on that.

>

> Ã‚

> I would not have even approved your emails as those are unnecessarily disturbing nature. We are doing one important BTR methods verification process and your emails are diverting attention from the core subject. Your emails are approved just becauseÃ‚ I myself wasÃ‚ the target of your attackÃ‚ and IÃ‚ thought IÃ‚ must answer all your questions in the forum so that everyone knows about it. But we will all agree that it is sheer waste of our time and forum's time.

>

> Thanks & Regards,

>

> Punit Pandey

>

> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

>

> Ã‚

>

> Dear Punit,

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Exactly which method suggested by me is not practicable, according to you...

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ I have already,a few minutes ago,written to you exposing your ignorance about what Varaha Mihira has exactly said about "how to erect Birth Chart of unknown TOB..."

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Without being harsh,I must point out that the sooner you realise that there is a whole lot more to Astrology,both Traditional as well as K.P System., than you think you know... the better it will be for ALL of US....!

>

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ With best wishes,

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Yogesh Lajmi.

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ GOOD LUCK !

> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚

>

> Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

> @gro ups.com

>

> Thu, 17 December, 2009 10:56:49 AM

> Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

> Ã‚

>

> Dear Suresh ji,

>

> Ã‚

> Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and that is the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind following, Shri KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work 'consistently' .. Instead of blind following, we should verify what works well and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.

>

> Ã‚

> Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written. Which method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not practicable and logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should follow only one "stalwart" and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see the file section and you will find that the most promoted method by Lajmi ji (Asc-Moon connection) is rejected by a study. WeÃ‚ should notÃ‚ close our eyes and blindly follow anything, it is what I think.

>

> Thanks & Regards,

>

> Punit Pandey

>

> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@ > wrote:

>

> Ã‚

>

> Dear Punitji,

> Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP followers more..In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort should be instead on finding out if this particular method suggested and advocated by Lajmiji does give correct results and research if any should be on this line.

>

> Suresh Hattangadi

>

> See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.

>

> See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.

>

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.

December 21, 2009

Dear Mr. Naidu,

Precisely,nobody knows that the exact time of birth is...

Only K.P., answers this question with the utmost accuracy...Brihat Jataka has also described a method,which is quite closwe to the Ruling Planets Method of K.P.

But,so far,only K.S.K has concluded after a lot of research that "if the Moon's star-lord 'tells' the Ascendant sublord..." this TOB is correct...

Till such time that no other better ''theory" has been offerred so far, I would place my faith in this theory....

With best wishes,

Yogesh Lajmi.

K. P. Naidu <konathalan Sent: Mon, 21 December, 2009 3:07:22 PMRe: Re: Is BTR enough to decide that BTR method is Correct ?

Dear friends,The need for RBT comes only when the Birth Time is DOUBTFUL. Most of the BTs of the present young generation are not found doubtful since those BTs are issued by the hospital authorities as per their records. The BTs of 50years and more old generation, mostly do not have recorded times and hence DOUBT arises mostly in such cases.Even in hospital recorded time also will not serve the purpose for KP astrologer, due to obvious reasons. The customer can have doubt about the Birth Time only if he knows something about KP which needs accuracy in BT compared to traditional astrology.Hence most of the customers think that the BT as reported by hospital is correct. God only knows whether it is the time of first cry for which KP astrologers make lot of CRY. Thanks & Regards,Naidu KPK. P. Naidu,Flat E-1,

Prince Aptmts.,Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta,VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.--- On Mon, 21/12/09, TW <tw853 > wrote:

TW <tw853 > Re: Is BTR enough to decide that BTR method is Correct ?@gro ups.comMonday, 21 December, 2009, 8:17 AM

Dear Friend,1. KP Reader VI, Shri Bhatt's Nakshatara Chintamani and Further Light on Nakshatara Chintamani would be more helpful for proper KP study. Astrosecrets and K.P. Part IV is just a collection of the BTR articles mostly from the old A & A magazines. 2. The controversy about what is the birth time will never be settled.-K.N. Rao: Timing of Events Through Vimshottari Dasha, 1996, in Preface to the Second Edition3. The rectification is the experienced astrologer's serious job in Western and Vedic astrology. Charles Jayne says, in 'The Technique of Rectification' , that his wife is a very competent astrologer and excellent rectifier and interpreter, and yet she and he took an credibly long time to rectify her chart.4. KP predictions have been done with success for the charts without doubt in the TOB by the consultants. KP is only the sub lord theory and without sub it is not KP. If the TOB is doubtful, it is better not to

rely on the natal chart, and horary can be opted. 5. Rectification can be done with any RP-based method that "works" for you, and thorough verification is required as Punit ji has said because the RPs, consequently rectified TOB can vary depending on astrologer, time and space. 6. There are the TOBs of 32 astrologers in the following article for testing of the BTR methods and some more can be added for a serious rectifier.Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.docExplanation of the Test Results7. Our KP brother Dr. Rangarajan Krishnamoorthy, Phd., can't help to run hundreds of AA charts on the computer program to test the RP-based BTR methods because of their reliance on the urge of the astrologer.http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 5025 Thanks and regards,TWP.S. BTW for those interested,

the said prediction method for billionaires can be read in the following message: http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ message/20315 @gro ups.com, Dev Sarkar <sarkar_dbx@ ...> wrote:>> Respected Senior Members,> > Many of us have been silent spectators whenever topic about BTR has been discussed in this forum, which is leading to utter confusion in the minds of many including to the beginners like me. All these time, I had kept quiet on this topic is due to my limited knowledge in KP. > > I have got involved in the last 6 months or so by reading the latest> editions of Reader 1,3 & > 5, Astro Secrets & KP Vol 1, 2 & 3 and waiting for the copy> of Vol 4, Sub Lord> Speaks

Vol 1, 2 & 3. All these books were bought from Krishman & Co - Madras. Apart from reading these books, I spend a lot of time at the astrosage tutorials section and of course read to all the mails exchanged in or forum - and the journey continue. What I> would like to say is my point of view with limited knowledge but with a bit of common sense.> > Sirs, there are so many methods of BTR's seen in the astrosage site (10 ways - I think), let it be "n" number of ways. This is just the first hurdle which we have to cross to erect a natal chart with KP. Now whether this BTR is right or wrong CANNOT be proven by just one incident / event in ones life - Can we justify that ?Ã‚ I am sure it is not.> > So what is to be done ? Research - OK ----Ã‚ on what ---Ã‚ and how ? > > We are doing research by various Quiz - lets take the latest one BTR 1 & Ã‚ 2. Sir the quiz master /

conductor has given the details of the mother, father and the approx time of the Kid whose BTR is to be done. Now here the question arises - how far the parents TOB is correct to see the> fructification of the event called "birth of child" and in the second one the conductor said the time is correct for the child as it was cesarian and hence the TOB is correct. Are the parents allowed in the operation theatre or is one of the parent/relativeÃ‚ a doc who did that cesarian ? Ok let us accept it was, but again will not everyone look at saving the child and the mother or look at the watch -- or let us say they look at the watch --- is the time right, what shows in that watch --- so many questions. Time is relative -- as well as it is precious --- if it is not, we would not be discussing.> > So we get an approx. time which is generally observed on the higher side of the actual TOB. So we use the Hora / Prasna method (which

I> personaly feel where KP is the strongest) with the help of RP's we find the TOB - as cited in the various examples in the books mentioned above. As well as the various methods as suggested by various> esteemed seniors as listed in the astrosage site.> > As TW ji said BTR is a time consuming process -- I call this process as "Research" if I need to know my Astro DNA as per KP, (by Astro DNA - I mean my Natal Chart). Each one of us know that we have 2 luminaries and a group of malefic & benefic Planets spread over 27 constellationÃ‚ but all confined inside the 12 Houses. May be this is the reason, why G Singh ji (in one of his earlier mails) has said that how confident are we to consider the CSL to check for an event ? I feel he is right , because what we have done is just found the TOB (in whatever method listed) and we erect the chart -- Have we done that process what> TW ji said -- have we done the

research on our own data -- for the events happened in our life. > > I am sure that out of the 12 Houses we would have events for atleast 10 - 12 houses . Couple of the forum members have given their> details to the forum (G Singhji , Punitji, Bhaskarji etc., including myself). Who ever in this list willing to undergo this research to ascertain the accuracy of the BTR of the TOB. Because fructification of event doesn't happen all the time in a Dasa. It is that combination of DBAS, like wise it is that combination of the Sign / Star / Sub Lord or each house which make the Natal chart as per KP so powerful that you can attain the accuracy level of prediction of about 99% as the final veto power is in the hands of our Creator.> > Guruji KSK in his readers has mentioned that the 10th cusp is the most important one as its the house of one's Karma and I think its also denoted as MC. The efficacy, efficiency and the accuracy

of prediction attained by our Guruji & his family members is due to their understanding of the said subject along with divine blessing. KP / Astrology is a science but prediction is an art with divine grace it can do> wonders.> > Hence this is what I would call as serious research - like how the accounting folks do - Budget vs Actuals. Being an Engineer I would always say it as "Reverse Engineering" and its a wonderful concept which saves a lot of time. So with the events which have already happened in our life are we able to find out those events in those 12 houses so that at the end of the day we can say that the corrected TOB as per method so and so satisfy the conditions of the past event and hence give the 3/6 months prediction to check> the validity of the method used.> > There are a few esteemed members who would be more than 70 years and during those years we can certainly find many events covering

the various houses. And if none wishes, then I would like to lay down (45 years will it be enough) in front of the KP surgeons who can do their research and advise me correct Astro DNA as per KP and be a part of this BTR research > > Finally thanks for> your patience reading and listening to my personal thoughts (not intended to hurt anyone) about this BTR theory & research --- which may not end. Is the QUEST on, its up to us to decide now ...... > > New comers & beginners like me, till then let us read the available books which follows KP as taught by our Guruji Shri KSK . > > Jai Maa Kaali,Ã‚ > > Devbrato Sarkar> > "Wealth is not just about making the money BUT making theÃ‚ MAN while he is making money".> > --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:> > Punit Pandey <punitp> Subject:

Re:> What is the correct birth time?> @gro ups.com> Sunday, December 20, 2009, 9:57 AM> > > > > > > > Ã‚ > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lajmi ji,> Ã‚ > I understand that you are not in agreement with what can be called as correct birth time and hence you question the verification process. I understand your disagreement. Now you tell me how to verify the method(s) you are suggesting? We need some way to verify so many BTR methods. > > > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:> > > Ã‚ > > > > > > Dear Punit,>

Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ The entire discussion which seems to have developed into an argument,sadly, arose onÃ‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ :Ã‚ Ã‚ " Whether theÃ‚ correct TOB is the Time of the First breath of a newborn..."> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ The commonsense answer to this simple question is when it begins to breathe,and live on its own(we normallyÃ‚ say a person is dead when he ceases to breathe,he ceases to live),but several people began to give/add several Ã‚ different parameters to consider the Correct TOB...which you,in my opinion,in the name ofÃ‚ "research" (needlessly) encouraged.. .and poor Mr.VGR Pavan submitted a protocol/suggestion ,to which

you agreed immediately, in my considered opinion,in too much of a hurry...That started the discussion in full swing,one thing leading to another... and that has brought us to this stage now...Isn't it ?> > Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ This was,to put the record straight...> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Yogesh Lajmi.> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ GOOD LUCK !> > >

> > > > Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>> @gro ups.com> > Fri, 18 December, 2009 10:25:14 AM > > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > Ã‚ > > > Dear Lajmi ji,> > Ã‚ > See my response to you to your another post - http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30095. I pointed out connection between RP and Varahamihira' s Nashta Jatakam in year 2003 (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 254) in this forum itself. Now tell me, who is ignorant?> > Ã‚ > Please read my mail and you will find that I didn't say that method suggested by you is not practicable. It is said by Suresh ji that other methods were not

practicable and hence I wanted to understand why so. I think Suresh ji is better person to answer your question of practicable as these are his thoughts. > > Ã‚ > I would request you to stop such baseless talks and focus on the subject. I do not have any "angst" against anybody. I kept repeating -Ã‚ for me, all KP authors are same and I believe in verification. Whether it is Great Varahamihira or Sage Parahshar or Shri KSK or Shri KSK's soon, I don't follow anybody blindly and it is what Shri KSK has taught us. Your attempt to make people follow KSK's sons blindly is simply against Shri KSK's teachings. You can not and you should not force other people to believe what you believe. You are not a PR agency or publicity agency for a person or a publication and you should not behave like that. We are not here to sell products or promote something, but for KP study, research and development and we should focus on that. >

> Ã‚ > I would not have even approved your emails as those are unnecessarily disturbing nature. We are doing one important BTR methods verification process and your emails are diverting attention from the core subject. Your emails are approved just becauseÃ‚ I myself wasÃ‚ the target of your attackÃ‚ and IÃ‚ thought IÃ‚ must answer all your questions in the forum so that everyone knows about it. But we will all agree that it is sheer waste of our time and forum's time. > > > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:> > > Ã‚ > > > > > > > Dear Punit,>

Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Exactly which method suggested by me is not practicable, according to you...> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ I have already,a few minutes ago,written to you exposing your ignorance about what Varaha Mihira has exactly said about "how to erect Birth Chart of unknown TOB..."> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Without being harsh,I must point out that the sooner you realise that there is a whole lot more to Astrology,both Traditional as well as K.P System., than you think you know... the better it will be for ALL of US....!> >

Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ With best wishes,> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Yogesh Lajmi.> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ GOOD LUCK !> Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>> @gro ups.com > > Thu, 17 December, 2009 10:56:49

AM> Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > Ã‚ > > > > Dear Suresh ji,> > Ã‚ > Your thinking seems contradictory to what Shri KSK has taught us and that is the reason I had written earlier email. KP is not about blind following, Shri KSK rejected many methods of sages just because those didn't work 'consistently' .. Instead of blind following, we should verify what works well and accept. If something doesn't work, we should discard it.> > Ã‚ > Let me ask some questions to you based on what you have written. Which method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable? Why other methods are not practicable and logical? Who verified those methods? Why we should follow only one "stalwart" and reject all learned KP astrologers? Please see the file section and you will find that the most promoted method by Lajmi ji (Asc-Moon

connection) is rejected by a study. WeÃ‚ should notÃ‚ close our eyes and blindly follow anything, it is what I think. > > > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > > > On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@ > wrote:> > > Ã‚ > > > > Dear Punitji,> Your comment that there are several methods available will confuse KP followers more..In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical.Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel.When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising.Our effort should be instead on finding out if this particular method suggested and advocated by Lajmiji does give

correct results and research if any should be on this line.> > Suresh Hattangadi > > > > > > > > > > > > See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.> > > > > > > > > > See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.>

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December 22, 2009

Dear Lajmi Sir, // "if the Moon's star-lord 'tells' the Ascendant sublord..." this TOB is correct...

Till such time that no other better ''theory" has been offerred so far, I would place my faith in this theory....//

It is good to apply the above rule to rectify the recorded/reported birth time.But in few cases this rule does

not apply at all.What to do in that situation?Please provide any meaningfull solution once for all.

With thanks & regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi Cc: K.P.Naidu <konathalanMon, December 21, 2009 11:56:25 PMRe: Re: Is BTR enough to decide that BTR method is Correct ?

Dear Mr. Naidu,

Precisely,nobody knows that the exact time of birth is...

Only K.P., answers this question with the utmost accuracy...Brihat Jataka has also described a method,which is quite closwe to the Ruling Planets Method of K.P.

But,so far,only K.S.K has concluded after a lot of research that "if the Moon's star-lord 'tells' the Ascendant sublord..." this TOB is correct...

Till such time that no other better ''theory" has been offerred so far, I would place my faith in this theory....

With best wishes,

Yogesh Lajmi.

K. P. Naidu <konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in>@gro ups.comMon, 21 December, 2009 3:07:22 PMRe: Re: Is BTR enough to decide that BTR method is Correct ?