Dear Dhirendranath Mishra - BTR

January 1, 2010

Dear Dhirendra Nath

This principle is not working for Random charts.

Let me explain :

Firstly set the ayanamsa to KP in Jagannatha Hora Software by going to the preferences menu ==> related to calculations ==> Aayanamsa ==> Krishna Murthy (KP).

Then open a new chart in the Software.

I have opened a new chart at 2Hrs.46Min.53.998Secs.PM and date is January 1,2010.

Then go to basic details and click the KP menu on the extreme right .You get the asc lords and sub lords and sub sub lords for every planet and raasi and ascendant.

At the specified time

Moon Star Lord is Jupiter and Sub lord is Mercury

Ascendant Lord is Sun and Sub Lord is Venus

I have verified for so many Ascendants and the rule is not holding good.

I believe this principle as it is is not appropriate to apply for every chart.

Best Regards

Soma Sekhar

--- On Thu, 31/12/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra wrote:

Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisraRe: Re: What is the correct birth time? Date: Thursday, 31 December, 2009, 11:39 AM

Dear Tw Ji, Please guide me if rules framed by Mr.M.P. Shanmugham apply in the following charts or it is also imiginary :

Method 8 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham

The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant, if the Ascendant is correct.Reference: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam

[1] Male baby (Suyash)

DOB-06th April,1998

TOB-Recorded Time- 10:12AM[Recorded time of first cry]

POB-Haldwani, District- Nainital

Latitude-29N13

Longitude-79E31

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Asc-Sub lord= Moon sub lord=Venus

Asc sub sub lord =Moon star lord=Mercury

Other Birth Particulars,

[2]Daughter was born in hospital- Time of first cry was recorded

DOB-24th June,1995

TOB-10:56PM

POB-Basti,U. P

Latitude-26N48

Longitude 82E44

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Sun

Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub = Saturn

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

[3]My own

DOB-20th April,1959

TOB-08:15AM( Recorded Time) as noted in Janm Patri,Rectified by me as 08:15:56 AM for K.P Ayanamsa only.I think at that time watch was either slow by 56 seconds or watch had not hand showing time up to second.

POB-Basti,U. P,India.

Latitude-26N48

Longitude-82E44

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord = Venus

Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord =Saturn

[4]Female,National Institute of Health,Washington D.C

DOB-20.09.1977

POB-Mumbai

TOB-08:30:50AM

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Ketu

Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub =Venus

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

[5] K.S.Krishnamurty Ji

DOB-01-11-1908

TOB-12:07:30PM

POB-Thiruvayuru

Asc sub lord =Moon star lord=Moon

Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord = Mars

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Does there any rule apply? Does recorded birth time of first cry reveal any rule or on what basis you can deny this time.More recorded time of first cry may be collected,if required for study.

With thanks and regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

TW <tw853 >@gro ups.comWed, December 30, 2009 6:51:01 PM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Dear Dhirendra Nath Misra,

Could you or imaginer of this rule or anyone else kindly provide any chart, for which this rule* is correct, in the whole published astrological literature (Western, Eastern KP, Vedic in English, etc), to prove that it can be correct as you are saying. * as stated in the attachment Thanks and regards,TW

Asc Sub = Moon Star & simultaneously Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule(What is this? How to be applied? by Statements and Live Charts?) Statements (1-6)http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 16098?threaded= 1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 17262?threaded= 1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20847?threaded= 1 & l=1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22223?threaded= 1 & l=1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22262?threaded= 1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28249?threaded= 1 & l=1 Chart 1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20694http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20759CUSP Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl :PLANET Sgl Stl Sbl SsL RULING PLANETSASC Mar Sat Moo Ven :SUN. Mer Mar Mer Mer ASC STL :Sat2nd Jup Ket Mer Mer :MOON Sat Moo Ven Ven ASC SGL :Mar(the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Moon & Venus, appear as the

Moon's star lord and sublord respectively) Chart 2http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22473http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22482?threaded= 1 & l=1I am pleased to inform you that the exact Time of Birth works out to :00,00,16 A.M., on 12-04-1960.. .(used K.P.Ayanamsa only)Such that, the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Mars & Jupiter, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively. .. ! Chart 3http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 23290http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 23309?threaded= 1 & l=1Rakesh's TOB requires a small correction.. .The exact Birth Time of Rakesh is 02-25-00 A.M.Kindly cast the chart for this TOB and check...(the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Mercury & Mercury, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively) Chart 4http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27814http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27822?threaded= 1 & l=1Your EXACT Birth Time,is 04-17-00. AM. IST.,as per K.P. System,using Krishnamurthi Ayanamsa,and the late Mr.A.R.Raichur' s SW... For this TOB,the sub-lord and the sub-sub-lord of your

Ascendant,Mars and Saturn,respectively will appear as the Moon's Star-lord and sub-lord respectively. Chart 5http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27631?threaded= 1 & l=1Kindly recall that as far back as on 12-10-2006,I had corrected your TOB be EXACTLY, 10-14-30....http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28059?threaded= 1 & l=1 I am pleased to inform you that the TOB rectified by me was confirmed by Mr. Gurmeet Singh...10-14- 30 AM. IST at Ludhiana...I have sent many a BTRs through this site...ALL of them have proved correct,except perhaps a single exception...http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28061?threaded= 1 & l=1The correct birth time is 10:14:30 AM. Lajmi ji and I rectified my birth time.(the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Mercury, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively) Chart 6http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27685http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27706Kindly correct the Birth Time in the Chart,as per K.P., you will find a different picture...as the TOB will emerge as 08-18-00. AM.Then analyse the IInd cusp for financial position/standing. ..CUSP Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl :PLANET Sgl Stl Sbl SsLASC Ven Jup Ven

Sat :SUN. Ven Moo Moo Jup 2nd Mar Mer Jup Moo :MO Jup Ven Sat Mer (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Saturn, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively) Chart 7http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28523?threaded= 1 & l=1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28588Did you check whether the TOB is correct ?I have corrected the TOB,it is 18-29-00.CUSP Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl :PLANET Sgl Stl Sbl SsL ASC Ven Jup Ven Sat :SUN. Ven Moo Moo Jup

2nd Mar Mer Jup Moo :MOO Jup Ven Sat Mer(the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Saturn, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively)

@gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3 minutes)Ã‚ onlyÃ‚ we can apply the above rule.Besides this the different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth time further for different ayanamsas.> With thanks & regards,Ã‚ > Dhirendra Nath Misra> Ã‚ > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> @gro ups.com> Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM> Re: What is the correct birth time?> > Ã‚ > Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half

an hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark. Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect. > > Bhaskar.> > @gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote:> >> > Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot

in society, and you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?> > > > Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested ? Good.> > > > Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical checking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, we must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love

marriage or not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ? Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> > > > Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia to predict ? > > > > If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of astrology are we into ?> > > > And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think whatever you predict will be right ?> > > > Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one. He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper. > > > > Bhaskar.>

> > > > > > > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh" <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > >> > > Dear Punitji> > > > > > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual time of first cry.> > > > > > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> > > > > > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A > > > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> > > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> > > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb with C>

> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with specified orb)> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > Suprakash> > > > > > > > > - > > > Punit Pandey > > > @gro ups.com > > > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > > > > > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you want to do it?> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your suggestions incorporated. > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Punit ji> > > > > > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the basic conditions assumed during the test.> > > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating

is not all.Have all the charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way? > > > > > > If not, then the test has no relevance.> > > > > > Regards> > > > > > Suprakash> > > > > > > > > - > > > Punit Pandey > > > @gro ups.com > > > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Suresh ji,> > > > > > Please see your post

(http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -> > > > > > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical."> > > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel."> > > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising."> > > > > > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is the reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts. Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them

"blindly" which also means following incorrect methods. > > > > > > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win. > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM,

suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > Dear Punitji,> > > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post. > > > Suresh Hattangadi> > >> >>

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.

January 1, 2010

Somasekhar Ji,I have submitted 4 birth details correctly wherein this rule does apply 100% but TW Ji has disapproved this rule and he has denied the following rules

Method 8 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham

The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant, if the Ascendant is correct.Reference: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam

with thanks & regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

somasekhar sarva <somasekharsarva Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 2:53:09 PM Re: Dear Dhirendranath Mishra - BTR

Dear Dhirendra Nath

This principle is not working for Random charts.

Let me explain :

Firstly set the ayanamsa to KP in Jagannatha Hora Software by going to the preferences menu ==> related to calculations ==> Aayanamsa ==> Krishna Murthy (KP).

Then open a new chart in the Software.

I have opened a new chart at 2Hrs.46Min.53. 998Secs.PM and date is January 1,2010.

Then go to basic details and click the KP menu on the extreme right .You get the asc lords and sub lords and sub sub lords for every planet and raasi and ascendant.

At the specified time

Moon Star Lord is Jupiter and Sub lord is Mercury

Ascendant Lord is Sun and Sub Lord is Venus

I have verified for so many Ascendants and the rule is not holding good.

I believe this principle as it is is not appropriate to apply for every chart.

Best Regards

Soma Sekhar

--- On Thu, 31/12/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com> wrote:

Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com>Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.comThursday, 31 December, 2009, 11:39 AM