Guest guest Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Om Datta GuruDear Michal,Michal when we learn a shastra we need to learn by the sanskrit verses & quotations of various classics in respect to the variations in opinions on a single topic. Unfortunately that is not prevalent in the cities or in internet paramparas today. Sanjay uses 8, K N Rao uses 7 - both find success in it whereas i find success in 8 as thats what i learnt in internet parampara but thats my personal experience (maybe biased) which does not demean the experience of K N Rao who has proved since decades that he is one of the best predictors in the business than anyone around but does that prove his point of being superior in his understanding of charakaraka scheme than Sanjays, or vice versa, if one says so that would be a small mans way of talking. Today we talk of Sanjay Vs Rao but the point is since time immemorial these debates in the karakas have existed and one finds it in Jyotish Phala Ratnamala, Sarasangraha and various other commentaries - unfortunately todays paramparas cannot even quote the verses, the way of learning a shastra is to read the moola kitab and also its various commentaries. U can ask any internet Jaimini Scholar and they wont even know how many commentaries of Jaimini are there considered important. I have asked for this list on various forums but Internet Paramparas could not answer/guide.See this verse from ParasaraCh. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas 1-2. I now detail below Atma Karak etc., obtainable from among the 7 Grahas, viz. Surya to ´Sani. Some say, that Rahu will become a Karak, when there is a state of similarity in terms of longitude between (two) Grahas. Yet some say, that the 8 Grahas, including Rahu, will have to be considered irrespective of such a state.Parasara has shown here that even during his time there were two views, he does not demean the other view or writer, not even subtly, a quality that u find in good people from good family backgrounds. > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in my chart that I can look forward to!The other view point which i stated in earlier mail is these sect use 7 & 8 charakaraka and only when two planets are in same long then 8 comes into the picture, this is what a scholar from Jaimini Lineage who can trace 14 generations of his parampara use it whereas Sanjay uses 8 and Rao 7. Also another student of Vemuri who has written 2000 pages on Jaimini astro (finished recently but not yet published) uses the same 7 & 8. I am sure you know the authority of Vemuri Shastry.However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like buildings and cars. Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various commentaries of Jaimini which says 7 charakaraka is only for those those who can procreate. Honestly i would love to learn and probe deeper.Even i used to debate with seniors outside internet that 8 charakaraka is only for humans it is then they quoted the various commentaries which show that both schemes have existed since time immemorial & during those times it was paramparic way of learning that is memorising and quoting shlokas from various commentaries to know the difference of viewpoint and not today when we cant quote.On nostalgia on same topic i had asked K N Rao in 2004 to write an article comparing 7 vs 8 charakaraka on 20 charts for us to understand it better but he never did it so far. Maybe some of us can do that or already have done that.> As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis? Right click on degrees in Jhora and select Navamsa Degrees, u will find in Ferrantes chart some planets in same degrees then his life story falls into picture i guess.best wishesSunil JohnMumbaisohamsa , Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal wrote:>> Hare Rama Krsna ||> > Dear Sunil,> > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in my chart that I can look forward to! However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like buildings and cars. Parasara says that some Astrolgers use it. Can you explain, based on your understanding and experience how one can use either?> As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis?> > Respectfully,> Michal> > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002 sohamsa > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:28:37 PM> Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat> > > Om Datta Guru> Dear Michal,> I had my software tuned to 7 charakaraka scheme as i was using chara dasha in previous chart, with that Amk is actually Mars and with 8 charakaraka it is Rahu. One can use either.> > Another interesting thing to note about this chart is that there is charakaraka replacement in his Navamsa, i don't know if Sanjay uses this or has taught his students but there are some traditions in Andhra where the tradition of Jaimini is prevalent who use charakaraka replacement in divisionals.> > Navamsa is also the chart of ones religious bent and charakaraka replacement happening in Navamsa is significant in his life wherein he has undergone a religious transformation.> > Regards> Sunil John> > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..> wrote:> >> > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > > > Dear Sunil, Patheya,> > > > Rahu is actually the AmK and is the 5th lord conjoined exalted Lagnesha in the 6th house forming a powerful dhimanta yoga inclined very much towards the Asuras. > > > > The 7th house of partnerships is very interesting - and this also happens to be the 9th from the AL which protects him.> > > > Respectfully,> > Michal> > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ...> > sohamsa@ .com> > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 6:41:05 PM> > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat> > > > > > Om Datta Guru> > Dear Patheya,> > His time of birth is 6 pm as per his birth certificate.> > > > the chart looks fine with a 2 min look some yogas seem to match his career path though being a mafia don cannot be said with certainty by anyone.> > > > An easy way to look is Saturn in 7H will destroy his career and transform his religious ideas and most important destroy his buddhi to take up to mafia related work. Mars retro being Amk in 2H of livelihood rules what he did> > > > Jupiter Ketu in 12H also gave him the transformation he needed, i have a friend who has Jupiter Ketu in 8H she transformed from Christainity to hinduism.> > > > Others can add> > > > best wishes> > Sunil> > > > sohamsa@ .com, Patheya Goyal <patheyagoyal@ ...> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Lakshmi ji, > > > > > > His name is Louis Ferrante. > > > > > > Patheya> > > > > > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... wrote:> > > Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ...> > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch> > > sohamsa@ .com> > > Sunday, October 5, 2008, 8:52 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna Dear Patheya, Its possible someone has already worked on his chart, what is his name? All the best Lakshmi> > > > > > Patheya Goyal patheyagoyal@ ... wrote: Respected Gurujans,> > > > > > I have partial data about a person who has has erstwhile been a notorious mafia don belonging to the infamous Gambino family crime network. As per the sources I have collected on him, it was by> > > mid-90s that law and the FBI caught up with him and he was given a 10 years' sentence. But the blurbs on his books suggest that he spent about 8 and 1/2 years [one source puts his release time as December 2006] in maximum security federal prison during which time he read his first book and underwent life transforming moments through certain encounters. He took to writing and is now an established author. He also spends time with wayward youth populations now mentoring them. I found him very articulate, intelligent, and reflective during an interview given to the BBC. I thought there might be interesting and certainly instructive things to learn from his chart. However, I only have his date and place of birth - 13 May 1969, Queens, New York. I was wondering if Gurujans will indulge and suggest how we might figure his chart out? Looking forward to learning from everyone. Best> > > regards,> > > > > > Patheya> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Hare Rama Krsna ||Dear Sunil,Not to sound disrespectful but you have not answered my question regarding 7 & 8 CK. Perhaps you can't which is fine, but then you really should just say so. Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various commentaries of Jaimini which says 7 charakaraka is only for those those who can procreate. Honestly i would love to learn and probe deeper.Sorry, you got me there, I am but a humble student and I cannot provide for you the translation of the appropriate shlokas in the relevant texts. I have read interpretations of CK's where putra or pitri karaka is absent, particularly by K.N. Rao. I kept reading, waiting for the explanation for this but it must not have seemed important to the author to mention the basis for why these CK are not necessary. (If I ever meet Mr. Rao again then this time I will be prepared to ask him). So I struggled with various charts, including my own rajyogas (and lack of the same) based on the 7 scheme until I learnt the basis of the 8 scheme - what a relief it made sense. If someone can explain to me why human souls don't need a PK or PiK, or how they 'merge' then I will examine that also.Regarding Ferrante's chart. If I understand you correctly about the Navamsa, Moon and Mars, Sun and Jupiter are at the same degree. Perhaps the replacement of AK Sun in this division by Jupiter could create such a change in a persons life. Thank you for sharing this.Respectfully,Michalsuniljohn_2002 <suniljohn_2002sohamsa Sent: Wednesday, October 8, 2008 7:48:54 PM 7 & 8 Charakaraka Om Datta GuruDear Michal,Michal when we learn a shastra we need to learn by the sanskrit verses & quotations of various classics in respect to the variations in opinions on a single topic. Unfortunately that is not prevalent in the cities or in internet paramparas today. Sanjay uses 8, K N Rao uses 7 - both find success in it whereas i find success in 8 as thats what i learnt in internet parampara but thats my personal experience (maybe biased) which does not demean the experience of K N Rao who has proved since decades that he is one of the best predictors in the business than anyone around but does that prove his point of being superior in his understanding of charakaraka scheme than Sanjays, or vice versa, if one says so that would be a small mans way of talking. Today we talk of Sanjay Vs Rao but the point is since time immemorial these debates in the karakas have existed and one finds it in Jyotish Phala Ratnamala, Sarasangraha and various other commentaries - unfortunately todays paramparas cannot even quote the verses, the way of learning a shastra is to read the moola kitab and also its various commentaries. U can ask any internet Jaimini Scholar and they wont even know how many commentaries of Jaimini are there considered important. I have asked for this list on various forums but Internet Paramparas could not answer/guide.See this verse from ParasaraCh. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas 1-2. I now detail below Atma Karak etc., obtainable from among the 7 Grahas, viz. Surya to ´Sani. Some say, that Rahu will become a Karak, when there is a state of similarity in terms of longitude between (two) Grahas. Yet some say, that the 8 Grahas, including Rahu, will have to be considered irrespective of such a state.Parasara has shown here that even during his time there were two views, he does not demean the other view or writer, not even subtly, a quality that u find in good people from good family backgrounds. > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in my chart that I can look forward to!The other view point which i stated in earlier mail is these sect use 7 & 8 charakaraka and only when two planets are in same long then 8 comes into the picture, this is what a scholar from Jaimini Lineage who can trace 14 generations of his parampara use it whereas Sanjay uses 8 and Rao 7. Also another student of Vemuri who has written 2000 pages on Jaimini astro (finished recently but not yet published) uses the same 7 & 8. I am sure you know the authority of Vemuri Shastry.However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like buildings and cars. Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various commentaries of Jaimini which says 7 charakaraka is only for those those who can procreate. Honestly i would love to learn and probe deeper.Even i used to debate with seniors outside internet that 8 charakaraka is only for humans it is then they quoted the various commentaries which show that both schemes have existed since time immemorial & during those times it was paramparic way of learning that is memorising and quoting shlokas from various commentaries to know the difference of viewpoint and not today when we cant quote.On nostalgia on same topic i had asked K N Rao in 2004 to write an article comparing 7 vs 8 charakaraka on 20 charts for us to understand it better but he never did it so far. Maybe some of us can do that or already have done that.> As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis? Right click on degrees in Jhora and select Navamsa Degrees, u will find in Ferrantes chart some planets in same degrees then his life story falls into picture i guess.best wishesSunil JohnMumbaisohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@. ..> wrote:>> Hare Rama Krsna ||> > Dear Sunil,> > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in my chart that I can look forward to! However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like buildings and cars. Parasara says that some Astrolgers use it. Can you explain, based on your understanding and experience how one can use either?> As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis?> > Respectfully,> Michal> > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ...> sohamsa@ .com> Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:28:37 PM> Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat> > > Om Datta Guru> Dear Michal,> I had my software tuned to 7 charakaraka scheme as i was using chara dasha in previous chart, with that Amk is actually Mars and with 8 charakaraka it is Rahu. One can use either.> > Another interesting thing to note about this chart is that there is charakaraka replacement in his Navamsa, i don't know if Sanjay uses this or has taught his students but there are some traditions in Andhra where the tradition of Jaimini is prevalent who use charakaraka replacement in divisionals.> > Navamsa is also the chart of ones religious bent and charakaraka replacement happening in Navamsa is significant in his life wherein he has undergone a religious transformation.> > Regards> Sunil John> > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..> wrote:> >> > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > > > Dear Sunil, Patheya,> > > > Rahu is actually the AmK and is the 5th lord conjoined exalted Lagnesha in the 6th house forming a powerful dhimanta yoga inclined very much towards the Asuras. > > > > The 7th house of partnerships is very interesting - and this also happens to be the 9th from the AL which protects him.> > > > Respectfully,> > Michal> > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ...> > sohamsa@ .com> > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 6:41:05 PM> > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat> > > > > > Om Datta Guru> > Dear Patheya,> > His time of birth is 6 pm as per his birth certificate.> > > > the chart looks fine with a 2 min look some yogas seem to match his career path though being a mafia don cannot be said with certainty by anyone.> > > > An easy way to look is Saturn in 7H will destroy his career and transform his religious ideas and most important destroy his buddhi to take up to mafia related work. Mars retro being Amk in 2H of livelihood rules what he did> > > > Jupiter Ketu in 12H also gave him the transformation he needed, i have a friend who has Jupiter Ketu in 8H she transformed from Christainity to hinduism.> > > > Others can add> > > > best wishes> > Sunil> > > > sohamsa@ .com, Patheya Goyal <patheyagoyal@ ...> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Lakshmi ji, > > > > > > His name is Louis Ferrante. > > > > > > Patheya> > > > > > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... wrote:> > > Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ...> > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch> > > sohamsa@ .com> > > Sunday, October 5, 2008, 8:52 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna Dear Patheya, Its possible someone has already worked on his chart, what is his name? All the best Lakshmi> > > > > > Patheya Goyal patheyagoyal@ ... wrote: Respected Gurujans,> > > > > > I have partial data about a person who has has erstwhile been a notorious mafia don belonging to the infamous Gambino family crime network. As per the sources I have collected on him, it was by> > > mid-90s that law and the FBI caught up with him and he was given a 10 years' sentence. But the blurbs on his books suggest that he spent about 8 and 1/2 years [one source puts his release time as December 2006] in maximum security federal prison during which time he read his first book and underwent life transforming moments through certain encounters. He took to writing and is now an established author. He also spends time with wayward youth populations now mentoring them. I found him very articulate, intelligent, and reflective during an interview given to the BBC. I thought there might be interesting and certainly instructive things to learn from his chart. However, I only have his date and place of birth - 13 May 1969, Queens, New York. I was wondering if Gurujans will indulge and suggest how we might figure his chart out? Looking forward to learning from everyone. Best> > > regards,> > > > > > Patheya> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 Om Datta GuruDear Michal,Not an issue but if u really have open heart to learn then re-read my previous mail the answer is within that mail itself. It only shows what some scholars in the land of Jaimini (Andhra Pradesh) have been also using. It does not say that it is the ultimate truth. Ideally I would never have replied to a mail which has something like this> > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in my chart that I can look forward to!If we take this bhavana to a jyotishi asking for query one is only shown the door in Varanasi the center of jyotish knowledge since time immemorial, and so is this the case in any parampara. Oh ya if we dish out dollars or provide platform for international fame then one can get information from a jyotishi inspite of this bhavana but not from a true jyotishi.It is for this reason i had humbly written how a Shastra learning has been done in the ancient times and tried to explain that till those books come out on Jaimini which our ancients have written we cannot form any fixed opinion on what is or could be the ultimate truth since our ancients used both karaka scheme have been used by scholars since hundreds of years and this 7/8 scheme debate is nothing new except for the young ones. I tried to give the opinion of the Late Vemuri Shastri as has been told to me by one of his students and Vemuri till date is regarded as one of the greatest Jaimini scholars that lived and we heard of in the last 100 years who used to predict the date (not hear say but one of my mentors has tasted his predictions) of an event. How many Jaimini Scholars alive today can do that, lets ask that question. I am not trying to demean scholars that are alive today but only trying to be honest in my approach & not be under anyones illusion.If we do not know what classics of Jaimini astrology have said what is the use of discussing the subject is what i wanted to put across, without that knowledge it is akin to two fools banging their heads. I would rather be honest to Sage Jaimini in my quest for his true teachings than to any parampara that teaches me to demean others.To end this discussion have we ever thought as to 'How come Parasara himself knowing that there are two views on the said subject did not vehemently denounce the other views & offer an explanation' - this is the real approach to astrology never to denounce another ones view. No Sage has ever done it, i guess only we men looking for cheap fame try to do it and when we do it we cant call ourselves a true student of jyotish or a true Guru as no true Guru will allow his students to demean anyone.It is better to be honest and say i do not know what our classics have said so i will not pass any opinion on a topic, this honesty is so rare to find.This is what i repeatedly learnt from a 92 yr old master of nadis about whom many seniors of this list know of my association with.GoodbyeSunil JohnMumbaisohamsa , Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal wrote:>> Hare Rama Krsna ||> > Dear Sunil,> > Not to sound disrespectful but you have not answered my question regarding 7 & 8 CK. Perhaps you can't which is fine, but then you really should just say so. > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various> commentaries of Jaimini which says 7 charakaraka is only for those> those who can procreate. Honestly i would love to learn and probe> deeper.> > Sorry, you got me there, I am but a humble student and I cannot provide for you the translation of the appropriate shlokas in the relevant texts. I have read interpretations of CK's where putra or pitri karaka is absent, particularly by K.N. Rao. I kept reading, waiting for the explanation for this but it must not have seemed important to the author to mention the basis for why these CK are not necessary. (If I ever meet Mr. Rao again then this time I will be prepared to ask him). So I struggled with various charts, including my own rajyogas (and lack of the same) based on the 7 scheme until I learnt the basis of the 8 scheme - what a relief it made sense. If someone can explain to me why human souls don't need a PK or PiK, or how they 'merge' then I will examine that also.> > Regarding Ferrante's chart. If I understand you correctly about the Navamsa, Moon and Mars, Sun and Jupiter are at the same degree. Perhaps the replacement of AK Sun in this division by Jupiter could create such a change in a persons life. Thank you for sharing this.> > Respectfully,> Michal> > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002 sohamsa > Wednesday, October 8, 2008 7:48:54 PM> 7 & 8 Charakaraka> > > Om Datta Guru> Dear Michal,> Michal when we learn a shastra we need to learn> by the sanskrit verses & quotations of various classics in respect> to the variations in opinions on a single topic. Unfortunately that is> not prevalent in the cities or in internet paramparas today. Sanjay> uses 8, K N Rao uses 7 - both find success in it whereas i find success> in 8 as thats what i learnt in internet parampara but thats my personal experience (maybe biased) which does not demean the> experience of K N Rao who has proved since decades that he is one of> the best predictors in the business than anyone around but does that prove his> point of being superior in his understanding of charakaraka scheme than Sanjays, or vice versa, if one says so that would be a small mans way of talking. Today we talk of Sanjay Vs Rao but the point is since time immemorial these debates in the karakas have existed and one finds it in Jyotish Phala Ratnamala, Sarasangraha and various other commentaries - unfortunately todays paramparas cannot even quote the verses, the way of learning a shastra is to read the moola kitab and also its various commentaries. U can ask any internet Jaimini Scholar and they wont even know how many commentaries of Jaimini are there considered important. I have asked for this list on various forums but Internet Paramparas could not answer/guide.> > See this verse from Parasara> > > Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas> 1-2. I now detail below Atma Karak etc., obtainable from> among the 7 Grahas, viz. Surya to ´Sani. Some say, that> Rahu will become a Karak, when there is a state of similarity in> terms of longitude between (two) Grahas. Yet some say, that the> 8 Grahas, including Rahu, will have to be considered> irrespective of such a state.Parasara has shown here that even during his time there were two views, he does not demean the other view or writer, not even subtly, a quality that u find in good people from good family backgrounds. > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said> that one can use either. That would be great, then I would have> rajyogas in my chart that I can look forward to!> The other view point which i stated in earlier mail is these sect use 7 & 8 charakaraka and only when two planets are in same long then 8 comes into the picture, this is what a scholar from Jaimini Lineage who can trace 14 generations of his parampara use it whereas Sanjay uses 8 and Rao 7. Also another student of Vemuri who has written 2000 pages on Jaimini astro (finished recently but not yet published) uses the same 7 & 8. I am sure you know the authority of Vemuri Shastry.> > > However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like buildings and cars. > > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various commentaries of Jaimini which says 7 charakaraka is only for those those who can procreate. Honestly i would love to learn and probe deeper.> > Even i used to debate with seniors outside internet that 8 charakaraka is only for humans it is then they quoted the various commentaries which show that both schemes have existed since time immemorial & during those times it was paramparic way of learning that is memorising and quoting shlokas from various commentaries to know the difference of viewpoint and not today when we cant quote.> > On nostalgia on same topic i had asked K N Rao in 2004 to write an article comparing 7 vs 8 charakaraka on 20 charts for us to understand it better but he never did it so far. Maybe some of us can do that or already have done that.> > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if> you have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante> does not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis?> > Right click on degrees in Jhora and select Navamsa Degrees, u will find in Ferrantes chart some planets in same degrees then his life story falls into picture i guess.> > best wishes> Sunil John> Mumbai> > > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..> wrote:> >> > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > > > Dear Sunil,> > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in my chart that I can look forward to! However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like buildings and cars. Parasara says that some Astrolgers use it. Can you explain, based on your understanding and experience how one can use either?> > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis?> > > > Respectfully,> > Michal> > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ...> > sohamsa@ .com> > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:28:37 PM> > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat> > > > > > Om Datta Guru> > Dear Michal,> > I had my software tuned to 7 charakaraka scheme as i was using chara dasha in previous chart, with that Amk is actually Mars and with 8 charakaraka it is Rahu. One can use either.> > > > Another interesting thing to note about this chart is that there is charakaraka replacement in his Navamsa, i don't know if Sanjay uses this or has taught his students but there are some traditions in Andhra where the tradition of Jaimini is prevalent who use charakaraka replacement in divisionals.> > > > Navamsa is also the chart of ones religious bent and charakaraka replacement happening in Navamsa is significant in his life wherein he has undergone a religious transformation.> > > > Regards> > Sunil John> > > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..> wrote:> > >> > > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > > > > > Dear Sunil, Patheya,> > > > > > Rahu is actually the AmK and is the 5th lord conjoined exalted Lagnesha in the 6th house forming a powerful dhimanta yoga inclined very much towards the Asuras. > > > > > > The 7th house of partnerships is very interesting - and this also happens to be the 9th from the AL which protects him.> > > > > > Respectfully,> > > Michal> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ...> > > sohamsa@ .com> > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 6:41:05 PM> > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat> > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru> > > Dear Patheya,> > > His time of birth is 6 pm as per his birth certificate.> > > > > > the chart looks fine with a 2 min look some yogas seem to match his career path though being a mafia don cannot be said with certainty by anyone.> > > > > > An easy way to look is Saturn in 7H will destroy his career and transform his religious ideas and most important destroy his buddhi to take up to mafia related work. Mars retro being Amk in 2H of livelihood rules what he did> > > > > > Jupiter Ketu in 12H also gave him the transformation he needed, i have a friend who has Jupiter Ketu in 8H she transformed from Christainity to hinduism.> > > > > > Others can add> > > > > > best wishes> > > Sunil> > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Patheya Goyal <patheyagoyal@ ...> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Lakshmi ji, > > > > > > > > His name is Louis Ferrante. > > > > > > > > Patheya> > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... wrote:> > > > Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ...> > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch> > > > sohamsa@ .com> > > > Sunday, October 5, 2008, 8:52 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna Dear Patheya, Its possible someone has already worked on his chart, what is his name? All the best Lakshmi> > > > > > > > Patheya Goyal patheyagoyal@ ... wrote: Respected Gurujans,> > > > > > > > I have partial data about a person who has has erstwhile been a notorious mafia don belonging to the infamous Gambino family crime network. As per the sources I have collected on him, it was by> > > > mid-90s that law and the FBI caught up with him and he was given a 10 years' sentence. But the blurbs on his books suggest that he spent about 8 and 1/2 years [one source puts his release time as December 2006] in maximum security federal prison during which time he read his first book and underwent life transforming moments through certain encounters. He took to writing and is now an established author. He also spends time with wayward youth populations now mentoring them. I found him very articulate, intelligent, and reflective during an interview given to the BBC. I thought there might be interesting and certainly instructive things to learn from his chart. However, I only have his date and place of birth - 13 May 1969, Queens, New York. I was wondering if Gurujans will indulge and suggest how we might figure his chart out? Looking forward to learning from everyone. Best> > > > regards,> > > > > > > > Patheya> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 Hare Rama Krsna ||Dear Sunil,Ok, goodbye. But hey, if you do happen to find out how/why to use 7 CK for human beings let me know.With regards to you and your master,Michalsuniljohn_2002 <suniljohn_2002sohamsa Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 7:01:29 PM Re: 7 & 8 Charakaraka Om Datta GuruDear Michal,Not an issue but if u really have open heart to learn then re-read my previous mail the answer is within that mail itself. It only shows what some scholars in the land of Jaimini (Andhra Pradesh) have been also using. It does not say that it is the ultimate truth. Ideally I would never have replied to a mail which has something like this> > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in my chart that I can look forward to!If we take this bhavana to a jyotishi asking for query one is only shown the door in Varanasi the center of jyotish knowledge since time immemorial, and so is this the case in any parampara. Oh ya if we dish out dollars or provide platform for international fame then one can get information from a jyotishi inspite of this bhavana but not from a true jyotishi.It is for this reason i had humbly written how a Shastra learning has been done in the ancient times and tried to explain that till those books come out on Jaimini which our ancients have written we cannot form any fixed opinion on what is or could be the ultimate truth since our ancients used both karaka scheme have been used by scholars since hundreds of years and this 7/8 scheme debate is nothing new except for the young ones. I tried to give the opinion of the Late Vemuri Shastri as has been told to me by one of his students and Vemuri till date is regarded as one of the greatest Jaimini scholars that lived and we heard of in the last 100 years who used to predict the date (not hear say but one of my mentors has tasted his predictions) of an event. How many Jaimini Scholars alive today can do that, lets ask that question. I am not trying to demean scholars that are alive today but only trying to be honest in my approach & not be under anyones illusion.If we do not know what classics of Jaimini astrology have said what is the use of discussing the subject is what i wanted to put across, without that knowledge it is akin to two fools banging their heads. I would rather be honest to Sage Jaimini in my quest for his true teachings than to any parampara that teaches me to demean others.To end this discussion have we ever thought as to 'How come Parasara himself knowing that there are two views on the said subject did not vehemently denounce the other views & offer an explanation' - this is the real approach to astrology never to denounce another ones view. No Sage has ever done it, i guess only we men looking for cheap fame try to do it and when we do it we cant call ourselves a true student of jyotish or a true Guru as no true Guru will allow his students to demean anyone.It is better to be honest and say i do not know what our classics have said so i will not pass any opinion on a topic, this honesty is so rare to find.This is what i repeatedly learnt from a 92 yr old master of nadis about whom many seniors of this list know of my association with.GoodbyeSunil JohnMumbaisohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@. ..> wrote:>> Hare Rama Krsna ||> > Dear Sunil,> > Not to sound disrespectful but you have not answered my question regarding 7 & 8 CK. Perhaps you can't which is fine, but then you really should just say so. > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various> commentaries of Jaimini which says 7 charakaraka is only for those> those who can procreate. Honestly i would love to learn and probe> deeper.> > Sorry, you got me there, I am but a humble student and I cannot provide for you the translation of the appropriate shlokas in the relevant texts. I have read interpretations of CK's where putra or pitri karaka is absent, particularly by K.N. Rao. I kept reading, waiting for the explanation for this but it must not have seemed important to the author to mention the basis for why these CK are not necessary. (If I ever meet Mr. Rao again then this time I will be prepared to ask him). So I struggled with various charts, including my own rajyogas (and lack of the same) based on the 7 scheme until I learnt the basis of the 8 scheme - what a relief it made sense. If someone can explain to me why human souls don't need a PK or PiK, or how they 'merge' then I will examine that also.> > Regarding Ferrante's chart. If I understand you correctly about the Navamsa, Moon and Mars, Sun and Jupiter are at the same degree. Perhaps the replacement of AK Sun in this division by Jupiter could create such a change in a persons life. Thank you for sharing this.> > Respectfully,> Michal> > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ...> sohamsa@ .com> Wednesday, October 8, 2008 7:48:54 PM> 7 & 8 Charakaraka> > > Om Datta Guru> Dear Michal,> Michal when we learn a shastra we need to learn> by the sanskrit verses & quotations of various classics in respect> to the variations in opinions on a single topic. Unfortunately that is> not prevalent in the cities or in internet paramparas today. Sanjay> uses 8, K N Rao uses 7 - both find success in it whereas i find success> in 8 as thats what i learnt in internet parampara but thats my personal experience (maybe biased) which does not demean the> experience of K N Rao who has proved since decades that he is one of> the best predictors in the business than anyone around but does that prove his> point of being superior in his understanding of charakaraka scheme than Sanjays, or vice versa, if one says so that would be a small mans way of talking. Today we talk of Sanjay Vs Rao but the point is since time immemorial these debates in the karakas have existed and one finds it in Jyotish Phala Ratnamala, Sarasangraha and various other commentaries - unfortunately todays paramparas cannot even quote the verses, the way of learning a shastra is to read the moola kitab and also its various commentaries. U can ask any internet Jaimini Scholar and they wont even know how many commentaries of Jaimini are there considered important. I have asked for this list on various forums but Internet Paramparas could not answer/guide.> > See this verse from Parasara> > > Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas> 1-2. I now detail below Atma Karak etc., obtainable from> among the 7 Grahas, viz. Surya to ´Sani. Some say, that> Rahu will become a Karak, when there is a state of similarity in> terms of longitude between (two) Grahas. Yet some say, that the> 8 Grahas, including Rahu, will have to be considered> irrespective of such a state.Parasara has shown here that even during his time there were two views, he does not demean the other view or writer, not even subtly, a quality that u find in good people from good family backgrounds. > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said> that one can use either. That would be great, then I would have> rajyogas in my chart that I can look forward to!> The other view point which i stated in earlier mail is these sect use 7 & 8 charakaraka and only when two planets are in same long then 8 comes into the picture, this is what a scholar from Jaimini Lineage who can trace 14 generations of his parampara use it whereas Sanjay uses 8 and Rao 7. Also another student of Vemuri who has written 2000 pages on Jaimini astro (finished recently but not yet published) uses the same 7 & 8. I am sure you know the authority of Vemuri Shastry.> > > However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like buildings and cars. > > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various commentaries of Jaimini which says 7 charakaraka is only for those those who can procreate. Honestly i would love to learn and probe deeper.> > Even i used to debate with seniors outside internet that 8 charakaraka is only for humans it is then they quoted the various commentaries which show that both schemes have existed since time immemorial & during those times it was paramparic way of learning that is memorising and quoting shlokas from various commentaries to know the difference of viewpoint and not today when we cant quote.> > On nostalgia on same topic i had asked K N Rao in 2004 to write an article comparing 7 vs 8 charakaraka on 20 charts for us to understand it better but he never did it so far. Maybe some of us can do that or already have done that.> > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if> you have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante> does not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis?> > Right click on degrees in Jhora and select Navamsa Degrees, u will find in Ferrantes chart some planets in same degrees then his life story falls into picture i guess.> > best wishes> Sunil John> Mumbai> > > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..> wrote:> >> > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > > > Dear Sunil,> > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in my chart that I can look forward to! However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like buildings and cars. Parasara says that some Astrolgers use it. Can you explain, based on your understanding and experience how one can use either?> > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis?> > > > Respectfully,> > Michal> > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ...> > sohamsa@ .com> > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:28:37 PM> > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat> > > > > > Om Datta Guru> > Dear Michal,> > I had my software tuned to 7 charakaraka scheme as i was using chara dasha in previous chart, with that Amk is actually Mars and with 8 charakaraka it is Rahu. One can use either.> > > > Another interesting thing to note about this chart is that there is charakaraka replacement in his Navamsa, i don't know if Sanjay uses this or has taught his students but there are some traditions in Andhra where the tradition of Jaimini is prevalent who use charakaraka replacement in divisionals.> > > > Navamsa is also the chart of ones religious bent and charakaraka replacement happening in Navamsa is significant in his life wherein he has undergone a religious transformation.> > > > Regards> > Sunil John> > > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..> wrote:> > >> > > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > > > > > Dear Sunil, Patheya,> > > > > > Rahu is actually the AmK and is the 5th lord conjoined exalted Lagnesha in the 6th house forming a powerful dhimanta yoga inclined very much towards the Asuras. > > > > > > The 7th house of partnerships is very interesting - and this also happens to be the 9th from the AL which protects him.> > > > > > Respectfully,> > > Michal> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ...> > > sohamsa@ .com> > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 6:41:05 PM> > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat> > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru> > > Dear Patheya,> > > His time of birth is 6 pm as per his birth certificate.> > > > > > the chart looks fine with a 2 min look some yogas seem to match his career path though being a mafia don cannot be said with certainty by anyone.> > > > > > An easy way to look is Saturn in 7H will destroy his career and transform his religious ideas and most important destroy his buddhi to take up to mafia related work. Mars retro being Amk in 2H of livelihood rules what he did> > > > > > Jupiter Ketu in 12H also gave him the transformation he needed, i have a friend who has Jupiter Ketu in 8H she transformed from Christainity to hinduism.> > > > > > Others can add> > > > > > best wishes> > > Sunil> > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Patheya Goyal <patheyagoyal@ ...> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Lakshmi ji, > > > > > > > > His name is Louis Ferrante. > > > > > > > > Patheya> > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... wrote:> > > > Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ...> > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch> > > > sohamsa@ .com> > > > Sunday, October 5, 2008, 8:52 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna Dear Patheya, Its possible someone has already worked on his chart, what is his name? All the best Lakshmi> > > > > > > > Patheya Goyal patheyagoyal@ ... wrote: Respected Gurujans,> > > > > > > > I have partial data about a person who has has erstwhile been a notorious mafia don belonging to the infamous Gambino family crime network. As per the sources I have collected on him, it was by> > > > mid-90s that law and the FBI caught up with him and he was given a 10 years' sentence. But the blurbs on his books suggest that he spent about 8 and 1/2 years [one source puts his release time as December 2006] in maximum security federal prison during which time he read his first book and underwent life transforming moments through certain encounters. He took to writing and is now an established author. He also spends time with wayward youth populations now mentoring them. I found him very articulate, intelligent, and reflective during an interview given to the BBC. I thought there might be interesting and certainly instructive things to learn from his chart. However, I only have his date and place of birth - 13 May 1969, Queens, New York. I was wondering if Gurujans will indulge and suggest how we might figure his chart out? Looking forward to learning from everyone. Best> > > > regards,> > > > > > > > Patheya> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 OM Datta Guru Dear Michal, It is right there in Parasaras shloka SJ sohamsa , Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal wrote: > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > Dear Sunil, > > Ok, goodbye. But hey, if you do happen to find out how/why to use 7 CK for human beings let me know. > > With regards to you and your master, > Michal > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002 > sohamsa > Thursday, October 9, 2008 7:01:29 PM > Re: 7 & 8 Charakaraka > > > Om Datta Guru > Dear Michal, > > Not an issue but if u really have open heart to learn then re-read my previous mail the answer is within that mail itself. It only shows what some scholars in the land of Jaimini (Andhra Pradesh) have been also using. It does not say that it is the ultimate truth. Ideally I would never have replied to a mail which has something like this > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you > said that one can use either. That would be great, then I would have > rajyogas in my chart that I can look forward to! > > If we take this bhavana to a jyotishi asking for query one is only shown the door in Varanasi the center of jyotish knowledge since time immemorial, and so is this the case in any parampara. Oh ya if we dish out dollars or provide platform for international fame then one can get information from a jyotishi inspite of this bhavana but not from a true jyotishi. > > It is for this reason i had humbly written how a Shastra learning has been done in the ancient times and tried to explain that till those books come out on Jaimini which our ancients have written we cannot form any fixed opinion on what is or could be the ultimate truth since our ancients used both karaka scheme have been used by scholars since hundreds of years and this 7/8 scheme debate is nothing new except for the young ones. I tried to give the opinion of the Late Vemuri Shastri as has been told to me by one of his students and Vemuri till date is regarded as one of the greatest Jaimini scholars that lived and we heard of in the last 100 years who used to predict the date (not hear say but one of my mentors has tasted his predictions) of an event. How many Jaimini Scholars alive today can do that, lets ask that question. I am not trying to demean scholars that are alive today but only trying to be honest in my approach & not be under anyones > illusion. > > If we do not know what classics of Jaimini astrology have said what is the use of discussing the subject is what i wanted to put across, without that knowledge it is akin to two fools banging their heads. I would rather be honest to Sage Jaimini in my quest for his true teachings than to any parampara that teaches me to demean others. > > To end this discussion have we ever thought as to 'How come Parasara himself knowing that there are two views on the said subject did not vehemently denounce the other views & offer an explanation' - this is the real approach to astrology never to denounce another ones view. No Sage has ever done it, i guess only we men looking for cheap fame try to do it and when we do it we cant call ourselves a true student of jyotish or a true Guru as no true Guru will allow his students to demean anyone. > > It is better to be honest and say i do not know what our classics have said so i will not pass any opinion on a topic, this honesty is so rare to find. > > This is what i repeatedly learnt from a 92 yr old master of nadis about whom many seniors of this list know of my association with. > > Goodbye > > Sunil John > Mumbai > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..> wrote: > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > Dear Sunil, > > > > Not to sound disrespectful but you have not answered my question regarding 7 & 8 CK. Perhaps you can't which is fine, but then you really should just say so. > > > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various > > commentaries of Jaimini which says 7 charakaraka is only for those > > those who can procreate. Honestly i would love to learn and probe > > deeper. > > > > Sorry, you got me there, I am but a humble student and I cannot provide for you the translation of the appropriate shlokas in the relevant texts. I have read interpretations of CK's where putra or pitri karaka is absent, particularly by K.N. Rao. I kept reading, waiting for the explanation for this but it must not have seemed important to the author to mention the basis for why these CK are not necessary. (If I ever meet Mr. Rao again then this time I will be prepared to ask him). So I struggled with various charts, including my own rajyogas (and lack of the same) based on the 7 scheme until I learnt the basis of the 8 scheme - what a relief it made sense. If someone can explain to me why human souls don't need a PK or PiK, or how they 'merge' then I will examine that also. > > > > Regarding Ferrante's chart. If I understand you correctly about the Navamsa, Moon and Mars, Sun and Jupiter are at the same degree. Perhaps the replacement of AK Sun in this division by Jupiter could create such a change in a persons life. Thank you for sharing this. > > > > Respectfully, > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ... > > sohamsa@ .com > > Wednesday, October 8, 2008 7:48:54 PM > > 7 & 8 Charakaraka > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > Dear Michal, > > Michal when we learn a shastra we need to learn > > by the sanskrit verses & quotations of various classics in respect > > to the variations in opinions on a single topic. Unfortunately that is > > not prevalent in the cities or in internet paramparas today. Sanjay > > uses 8, K N Rao uses 7 - both find success in it whereas i find success > > in 8 as thats what i learnt in internet parampara but thats my personal experience (maybe biased) which does not demean the > > experience of K N Rao who has proved since decades that he is one of > > the best predictors in the business than anyone around but does that prove his > > point of being superior in his understanding of charakaraka scheme than Sanjays, or vice versa, if one says so that would be a small mans way of talking. Today we talk of Sanjay Vs Rao but the point is since time immemorial these debates in the karakas have existed and one finds it in Jyotish Phala Ratnamala, Sarasangraha and various other commentaries - unfortunately todays paramparas cannot even quote the verses, the way of learning a shastra is to read the moola kitab and also its various commentaries. U can ask any internet Jaimini Scholar and they wont even know how many commentaries of Jaimini are there considered important. I have asked for this list on various forums but Internet Paramparas could not answer/guide. > > > > See this verse from Parasara > > > > > > Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas > > 1-2. I now detail below Atma Karak etc., obtainable from > > among the 7 Grahas, viz. Surya to ´Sani. Some say, that > > Rahu will become a Karak, when there is a state of similarity in > > terms of longitude between (two) Grahas. Yet some say, that the > > 8 Grahas, including Rahu, will have to be considered > > irrespective of such a state.Parasara has shown here that even during his time there were two views, he does not demean the other view or writer, not even subtly, a quality that u find in good people from good family backgrounds. > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said > > that one can use either. That would be great, then I would have > > rajyogas in my chart that I can look forward to! > > The other view point which i stated in earlier mail is these sect use 7 & 8 charakaraka and only when two planets are in same long then 8 comes into the picture, this is what a scholar from Jaimini Lineage who can trace 14 generations of his parampara use it whereas Sanjay uses 8 and Rao 7. Also another student of Vemuri who has written 2000 pages on Jaimini astro (finished recently but not yet published) uses the same 7 & 8. I am sure you know the authority of Vemuri Shastry. > > > > > > However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like buildings and cars. > > > > > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various commentaries of Jaimini which says 7 charakaraka is only for those those who can procreate. Honestly i would love to learn and probe deeper. > > > > Even i used to debate with seniors outside internet that 8 charakaraka is only for humans it is then they quoted the various commentaries which show that both schemes have existed since time immemorial & during those times it was paramparic way of learning that is memorising and quoting shlokas from various commentaries to know the difference of viewpoint and not today when we cant quote. > > > > On nostalgia on same topic i had asked K N Rao in 2004 to write an article comparing 7 vs 8 charakaraka on 20 charts for us to understand it better but he never did it so far. Maybe some of us can do that or already have done that. > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if > > you have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante > > does not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis? > > > > Right click on degrees in Jhora and select Navamsa Degrees, u will find in Ferrantes chart some planets in same degrees then his life story falls into picture i guess. > > > > best wishes > > Sunil John > > Mumbai > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > Dear Sunil, > > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in my chart that I can look forward to! However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like buildings and cars. Parasara says that some Astrolgers use it. Can you explain, based on your understanding and experience how one can use either? > > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis? > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ... > > > sohamsa@ .com > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:28:37 PM > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > Dear Michal, > > > I had my software tuned to 7 charakaraka scheme as i was using chara dasha in previous chart, with that Amk is actually Mars and with 8 charakaraka it is Rahu. One can use either. > > > > > > Another interesting thing to note about this chart is that there is charakaraka replacement in his Navamsa, i don't know if Sanjay uses this or has taught his students but there are some traditions in Andhra where the tradition of Jaimini is prevalent who use charakaraka replacement in divisionals. > > > > > > Navamsa is also the chart of ones religious bent and charakaraka replacement happening in Navamsa is significant in his life wherein he has undergone a religious transformation. > > > > > > Regards > > > Sunil John > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil, Patheya, > > > > > > > > Rahu is actually the AmK and is the 5th lord conjoined exalted Lagnesha in the 6th house forming a powerful dhimanta yoga inclined very much towards the Asuras. > > > > > > > > The 7th house of partnerships is very interesting - and this also happens to be the 9th from the AL which protects him. > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ... > > > > sohamsa@ .com > > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 6:41:05 PM > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > Dear Patheya, > > > > His time of birth is 6 pm as per his birth certificate. > > > > > > > > the chart looks fine with a 2 min look some yogas seem to match his career path though being a mafia don cannot be said with certainty by anyone. > > > > > > > > An easy way to look is Saturn in 7H will destroy his career and transform his religious ideas and most important destroy his buddhi to take up to mafia related work. Mars retro being Amk in 2H of livelihood rules what he did > > > > > > > > Jupiter Ketu in 12H also gave him the transformation he needed, i have a friend who has Jupiter Ketu in 8H she transformed from Christainity to hinduism. > > > > > > > > Others can add > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > Sunil > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Patheya Goyal <patheyagoyal@ ....> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi ji, > > > > > > > > > > His name is Louis Ferrante. > > > > > > > > > > Patheya > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... wrote: > > > > > Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch > > > > > sohamsa@ .com > > > > > Sunday, October 5, 2008, 8:52 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna Dear Patheya, Its possible someone has already worked on his chart, what is his name? All the best Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > Patheya Goyal patheyagoyal@ ... wrote: Respected Gurujans, > > > > > > > > > > I have partial data about a person who has has erstwhile been a notorious mafia don belonging to the infamous Gambino family crime network. As per the sources I have collected on him, it was by > > > > > mid-90s that law and the FBI caught up with him and he was given a 10 years' sentence. But the blurbs on his books suggest that he spent about 8 and 1/2 years [one source puts his release time as December 2006] in maximum security federal prison during which time he read his first book and underwent life transforming moments through certain encounters. He took to writing and is now an established author. He also spends time with wayward youth populations now mentoring them. I found him very articulate, intelligent, and reflective during an interview given to the BBC. I thought there might be interesting and certainly instructive things to learn from his chart. However, I only have his date and place of birth - 13 May 1969, Queens, New York. I was wondering if Gurujans will indulge and suggest how we might figure his chart out? Looking forward to learning from everyone. Best > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > Patheya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 Hare Rama Krsna ||Dear SJ,Hello again! The shloka you provided before mentioned that there are two CK schemes, one using 7 and the other 8 CK. This seems to be the 'what'. If you can please provide the 'why', 'how', and 'when' to use these two schemes I will be grateful. If you could provide a shloka with these details it would be even better. Based on the premium association you have had I hope for some real gems. But please, let us speak of remembering, no more mention of time immemorial.Thanks,Michalsuniljohn_2002 <suniljohn_2002sohamsa Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 8:30:02 PM Re: 7 & 8 Charakaraka OM Datta Guru Dear Michal, It is right there in Parasaras shloka SJ sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@ ...> wrote: > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > Dear Sunil, > > Ok, goodbye. But hey, if you do happen to find out how/why to use 7 CK for human beings let me know. > > With regards to you and your master, > Michal > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ... > sohamsa@ .com > Thursday, October 9, 2008 7:01:29 PM > Re: 7 & 8 Charakaraka > > > Om Datta Guru > Dear Michal, > > Not an issue but if u really have open heart to learn then re-read my previous mail the answer is within that mail itself. It only shows what some scholars in the land of Jaimini (Andhra Pradesh) have been also using. It does not say that it is the ultimate truth. Ideally I would never have replied to a mail which has something like this > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you > said that one can use either. That would be great, then I would have > rajyogas in my chart that I can look forward to! > > If we take this bhavana to a jyotishi asking for query one is only shown the door in Varanasi the center of jyotish knowledge since time immemorial, and so is this the case in any parampara. Oh ya if we dish out dollars or provide platform for international fame then one can get information from a jyotishi inspite of this bhavana but not from a true jyotishi. > > It is for this reason i had humbly written how a Shastra learning has been done in the ancient times and tried to explain that till those books come out on Jaimini which our ancients have written we cannot form any fixed opinion on what is or could be the ultimate truth since our ancients used both karaka scheme have been used by scholars since hundreds of years and this 7/8 scheme debate is nothing new except for the young ones. I tried to give the opinion of the Late Vemuri Shastri as has been told to me by one of his students and Vemuri till date is regarded as one of the greatest Jaimini scholars that lived and we heard of in the last 100 years who used to predict the date (not hear say but one of my mentors has tasted his predictions) of an event. How many Jaimini Scholars alive today can do that, lets ask that question. I am not trying to demean scholars that are alive today but only trying to be honest in my approach & not be under anyones > illusion. > > If we do not know what classics of Jaimini astrology have said what is the use of discussing the subject is what i wanted to put across, without that knowledge it is akin to two fools banging their heads. I would rather be honest to Sage Jaimini in my quest for his true teachings than to any parampara that teaches me to demean others. > > To end this discussion have we ever thought as to 'How come Parasara himself knowing that there are two views on the said subject did not vehemently denounce the other views & offer an explanation' - this is the real approach to astrology never to denounce another ones view. No Sage has ever done it, i guess only we men looking for cheap fame try to do it and when we do it we cant call ourselves a true student of jyotish or a true Guru as no true Guru will allow his students to demean anyone. > > It is better to be honest and say i do not know what our classics have said so i will not pass any opinion on a topic, this honesty is so rare to find. > > This is what i repeatedly learnt from a 92 yr old master of nadis about whom many seniors of this list know of my association with. > > Goodbye > > Sunil John > Mumbai > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..> wrote: > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > Dear Sunil, > > > > Not to sound disrespectful but you have not answered my question regarding 7 & 8 CK. Perhaps you can't which is fine, but then you really should just say so. > > > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various > > commentaries of Jaimini which says 7 charakaraka is only for those > > those who can procreate. Honestly i would love to learn and probe > > deeper. > > > > Sorry, you got me there, I am but a humble student and I cannot provide for you the translation of the appropriate shlokas in the relevant texts. I have read interpretations of CK's where putra or pitri karaka is absent, particularly by K.N. Rao. I kept reading, waiting for the explanation for this but it must not have seemed important to the author to mention the basis for why these CK are not necessary. (If I ever meet Mr. Rao again then this time I will be prepared to ask him). So I struggled with various charts, including my own rajyogas (and lack of the same) based on the 7 scheme until I learnt the basis of the 8 scheme - what a relief it made sense. If someone can explain to me why human souls don't need a PK or PiK, or how they 'merge' then I will examine that also. > > > > Regarding Ferrante's chart. If I understand you correctly about the Navamsa, Moon and Mars, Sun and Jupiter are at the same degree. Perhaps the replacement of AK Sun in this division by Jupiter could create such a change in a persons life. Thank you for sharing this. > > > > Respectfully, > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ... > > sohamsa@ .com > > Wednesday, October 8, 2008 7:48:54 PM > > 7 & 8 Charakaraka > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > Dear Michal, > > Michal when we learn a shastra we need to learn > > by the sanskrit verses & quotations of various classics in respect > > to the variations in opinions on a single topic. Unfortunately that is > > not prevalent in the cities or in internet paramparas today. Sanjay > > uses 8, K N Rao uses 7 - both find success in it whereas i find success > > in 8 as thats what i learnt in internet parampara but thats my personal experience (maybe biased) which does not demean the > > experience of K N Rao who has proved since decades that he is one of > > the best predictors in the business than anyone around but does that prove his > > point of being superior in his understanding of charakaraka scheme than Sanjays, or vice versa, if one says so that would be a small mans way of talking. Today we talk of Sanjay Vs Rao but the point is since time immemorial these debates in the karakas have existed and one finds it in Jyotish Phala Ratnamala, Sarasangraha and various other commentaries - unfortunately todays paramparas cannot even quote the verses, the way of learning a shastra is to read the moola kitab and also its various commentaries. U can ask any internet Jaimini Scholar and they wont even know how many commentaries of Jaimini are there considered important. I have asked for this list on various forums but Internet Paramparas could not answer/guide. > > > > See this verse from Parasara > > > > > > Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas > > 1-2. I now detail below Atma Karak etc., obtainable from > > among the 7 Grahas, viz. Surya to ´Sani. Some say, that > > Rahu will become a Karak, when there is a state of similarity in > > terms of longitude between (two) Grahas. Yet some say, that the > > 8 Grahas, including Rahu, will have to be considered > > irrespective of such a state.Parasara has shown here that even during his time there were two views, he does not demean the other view or writer, not even subtly, a quality that u find in good people from good family backgrounds. > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said > > that one can use either. That would be great, then I would have > > rajyogas in my chart that I can look forward to! > > The other view point which i stated in earlier mail is these sect use 7 & 8 charakaraka and only when two planets are in same long then 8 comes into the picture, this is what a scholar from Jaimini Lineage who can trace 14 generations of his parampara use it whereas Sanjay uses 8 and Rao 7. Also another student of Vemuri who has written 2000 pages on Jaimini astro (finished recently but not yet published) uses the same 7 & 8. I am sure you know the authority of Vemuri Shastry. > > > > > > However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like buildings and cars. > > > > > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various commentaries of Jaimini which says 7 charakaraka is only for those those who can procreate. Honestly i would love to learn and probe deeper. > > > > Even i used to debate with seniors outside internet that 8 charakaraka is only for humans it is then they quoted the various commentaries which show that both schemes have existed since time immemorial & during those times it was paramparic way of learning that is memorising and quoting shlokas from various commentaries to know the difference of viewpoint and not today when we cant quote. > > > > On nostalgia on same topic i had asked K N Rao in 2004 to write an article comparing 7 vs 8 charakaraka on 20 charts for us to understand it better but he never did it so far. Maybe some of us can do that or already have done that. > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if > > you have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante > > does not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis? > > > > Right click on degrees in Jhora and select Navamsa Degrees, u will find in Ferrantes chart some planets in same degrees then his life story falls into picture i guess. > > > > best wishes > > Sunil John > > Mumbai > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > Dear Sunil, > > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in my chart that I can look forward to! However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like buildings and cars. Parasara says that some Astrolgers use it. Can you explain, based on your understanding and experience how one can use either? > > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis? > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ... > > > sohamsa@ .com > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:28:37 PM > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > Dear Michal, > > > I had my software tuned to 7 charakaraka scheme as i was using chara dasha in previous chart, with that Amk is actually Mars and with 8 charakaraka it is Rahu. One can use either. > > > > > > Another interesting thing to note about this chart is that there is charakaraka replacement in his Navamsa, i don't know if Sanjay uses this or has taught his students but there are some traditions in Andhra where the tradition of Jaimini is prevalent who use charakaraka replacement in divisionals. > > > > > > Navamsa is also the chart of ones religious bent and charakaraka replacement happening in Navamsa is significant in his life wherein he has undergone a religious transformation. > > > > > > Regards > > > Sunil John > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil, Patheya, > > > > > > > > Rahu is actually the AmK and is the 5th lord conjoined exalted Lagnesha in the 6th house forming a powerful dhimanta yoga inclined very much towards the Asuras. > > > > > > > > The 7th house of partnerships is very interesting - and this also happens to be the 9th from the AL which protects him. > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ... > > > > sohamsa@ .com > > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 6:41:05 PM > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > Dear Patheya, > > > > His time of birth is 6 pm as per his birth certificate. > > > > > > > > the chart looks fine with a 2 min look some yogas seem to match his career path though being a mafia don cannot be said with certainty by anyone. > > > > > > > > An easy way to look is Saturn in 7H will destroy his career and transform his religious ideas and most important destroy his buddhi to take up to mafia related work. Mars retro being Amk in 2H of livelihood rules what he did > > > > > > > > Jupiter Ketu in 12H also gave him the transformation he needed, i have a friend who has Jupiter Ketu in 8H she transformed from Christainity to hinduism. > > > > > > > > Others can add > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > Sunil > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Patheya Goyal <patheyagoyal@ ....> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi ji, > > > > > > > > > > His name is Louis Ferrante. > > > > > > > > > > Patheya > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... wrote: > > > > > Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch > > > > > sohamsa@ .com > > > > > Sunday, October 5, 2008, 8:52 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna Dear Patheya, Its possible someone has already worked on his chart, what is his name? All the best Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > Patheya Goyal patheyagoyal@ ... wrote: Respected Gurujans, > > > > > > > > > > I have partial data about a person who has has erstwhile been a notorious mafia don belonging to the infamous Gambino family crime network. As per the sources I have collected on him, it was by > > > > > mid-90s that law and the FBI caught up with him and he was given a 10 years' sentence. But the blurbs on his books suggest that he spent about 8 and 1/2 years [one source puts his release time as December 2006] in maximum security federal prison during which time he read his first book and underwent life transforming moments through certain encounters. He took to writing and is now an established author. He also spends time with wayward youth populations now mentoring them. I found him very articulate, intelligent, and reflective during an interview given to the BBC. I thought there might be interesting and certainly instructive things to learn from his chart. However, I only have his date and place of birth - 13 May 1969, Queens, New York. I was wondering if Gurujans will indulge and suggest how we might figure his chart out? Looking forward to learning from everyone. Best > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > Patheya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 re read the shloka and explanation below it or ask ur guru who cares to teach SJ sohamsa , Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal wrote: > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > Dear SJ, > > Hello again! The shloka you provided before mentioned that there are two CK schemes, one using 7 and the other 8 CK. This seems to be the 'what'. If you can please provide the 'why', 'how', and 'when' to use these two schemes I will be grateful. If you could provide a shloka with these details it would be even better. Based on the premium association you have had I hope for some real gems. But please, let us speak of remembering, no more mention of time immemorial. > > Thanks, > Michal > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002 > sohamsa > Thursday, October 9, 2008 8:30:02 PM > Re: 7 & 8 Charakaraka > > > OM Datta Guru > Dear Michal, > It is right there in Parasaras shloka > SJ > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@ ...> wrote: > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > Dear Sunil, > > > > Ok, goodbye. But hey, if you do happen to find out how/why to use 7 > CK for human beings let me know. > > > > With regards to you and your master, > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ... > > sohamsa@ .com > > Thursday, October 9, 2008 7:01:29 PM > > Re: 7 & 8 Charakaraka > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > Dear Michal, > > > > Not an issue but if u really have open heart to learn then re-read my > previous mail the answer is within that mail itself. It only shows what > some scholars in the land of Jaimini (Andhra Pradesh) have been also > using. It does not say that it is the ultimate truth. Ideally I would > never have replied to a mail which has something like this > > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you > > said that one can use either. That would be great, then I would have > > rajyogas in my chart that I can look forward to! > > > > If we take this bhavana to a jyotishi asking for query one is only > shown the door in Varanasi the center of jyotish knowledge since time > immemorial, and so is this the case in any parampara. Oh ya if we dish > out dollars or provide platform for international fame then one can get > information from a jyotishi inspite of this bhavana but not from a true > jyotishi. > > > > It is for this reason i had humbly written how a Shastra learning has > been done in the ancient times and tried to explain that till those > books come out on Jaimini which our ancients have written we cannot form > any fixed opinion on what is or could be the ultimate truth since our > ancients used both karaka scheme have been used by scholars since > hundreds of years and this 7/8 scheme debate is nothing new except for > the young ones. I tried to give the opinion of the Late Vemuri Shastri > as has been told to me by one of his students and Vemuri till date is > regarded as one of the greatest Jaimini scholars that lived and we heard > of in the last 100 years who used to predict the date (not hear say but > one of my mentors has tasted his predictions) of an event. How many > Jaimini Scholars alive today can do that, lets ask that question. I am > not trying to demean scholars that are alive today but only trying to be > honest in my approach & not be under anyones > > illusion. > > > > If we do not know what classics of Jaimini astrology have said what is > the use of discussing the subject is what i wanted to put across, > without that knowledge it is akin to two fools banging their heads. I > would rather be honest to Sage Jaimini in my quest for his true > teachings than to any parampara that teaches me to demean others. > > > > To end this discussion have we ever thought as to 'How come Parasara > himself knowing that there are two views on the said subject did not > vehemently denounce the other views & offer an explanation' - this is > the real approach to astrology never to denounce another ones view. No > Sage has ever done it, i guess only we men looking for cheap fame try to > do it and when we do it we cant call ourselves a true student of jyotish > or a true Guru as no true Guru will allow his students to demean anyone. > > > > It is better to be honest and say i do not know what our classics have > said so i will not pass any opinion on a topic, this honesty is so rare > to find. > > > > This is what i repeatedly learnt from a 92 yr old master of nadis > about whom many seniors of this list know of my association with. > > > > Goodbye > > > > Sunil John > > Mumbai > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..> > wrote: > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > Dear Sunil, > > > > > > Not to sound disrespectful but you have not answered my question > regarding 7 & 8 CK. Perhaps you can't which is fine, but then you > really should just say so. > > > > > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various > > > commentaries of Jaimini which says 7 charakaraka is only for those > > > those who can procreate. Honestly i would love to learn and probe > > > deeper. > > > > > > Sorry, you got me there, I am but a humble student and I cannot > provide for you the translation of the appropriate shlokas in the > relevant texts. I have read interpretations of CK's where putra or > pitri karaka is absent, particularly by K.N. Rao. I kept reading, > waiting for the explanation for this but it must not have seemed > important to the author to mention the basis for why these CK are not > necessary. (If I ever meet Mr. Rao again then this time I will be > prepared to ask him). So I struggled with various charts, including my > own rajyogas (and lack of the same) based on the 7 scheme until I learnt > the basis of the 8 scheme - what a relief it made sense. If someone can > explain to me why human souls don't need a PK or PiK, or how they > 'merge' then I will examine that also. > > > > > > Regarding Ferrante's chart. If I understand you correctly about the > Navamsa, Moon and Mars, Sun and Jupiter are at the same degree. Perhaps > the replacement of AK Sun in this division by Jupiter could create such > a change in a persons life. Thank you for sharing this. > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ... > > > sohamsa@ .com > > > Wednesday, October 8, 2008 7:48:54 PM > > > 7 & 8 Charakaraka > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > Dear Michal, > > > Michal when we learn a shastra we need to learn > > > by the sanskrit verses & quotations of various classics in respect > > > to the variations in opinions on a single topic. Unfortunately that > is > > > not prevalent in the cities or in internet paramparas today. Sanjay > > > uses 8, K N Rao uses 7 - both find success in it whereas i find > success > > > in 8 as thats what i learnt in internet parampara but thats my > personal experience (maybe biased) which does not demean the > > > experience of K N Rao who has proved since decades that he is one of > > > the best predictors in the business than anyone around but does that > prove his > > > point of being superior in his understanding of charakaraka scheme > than Sanjays, or vice versa, if one says so that would be a small mans > way of talking. Today we talk of Sanjay Vs Rao but the point is since > time immemorial these debates in the karakas have existed and one finds > it in Jyotish Phala Ratnamala, Sarasangraha and various other > commentaries - unfortunately todays paramparas cannot even quote the > verses, the way of learning a shastra is to read the moola kitab and > also its various commentaries. U can ask any internet Jaimini Scholar > and they wont even know how many commentaries of Jaimini are there > considered important. I have asked for this list on various forums but > Internet Paramparas could not answer/guide. > > > > > > See this verse from Parasara > > > > > > > > > Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas > > > 1-2. I now detail below Atma Karak etc., obtainable from > > > among the 7 Grahas, viz. Surya to ´Sani. Some say, that > > > Rahu will become a Karak, when there is a state of similarity in > > > terms of longitude between (two) Grahas. Yet some say, that the > > > 8 Grahas, including Rahu, will have to be considered > > > irrespective of such a state.Parasara has shown here that even > during his time there were two views, he does not demean the other view > or writer, not even subtly, a quality that u find in good people from > good family backgrounds. > > > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said > > > that one can use either. That would be great, then I would have > > > rajyogas in my chart that I can look forward to! > > > The other view point which i stated in earlier mail is these sect > use 7 & 8 charakaraka and only when two planets are in same long then 8 > comes into the picture, this is what a scholar from Jaimini Lineage who > can trace 14 generations of his parampara use it whereas Sanjay uses 8 > and Rao 7. Also another student of Vemuri who has written 2000 pages on > Jaimini astro (finished recently but not yet published) uses the same 7 > & 8. I am sure you know the authority of Vemuri Shastry. > > > > > > > > > However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those > that can't have children, like buildings and cars. > > > > > > > > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various commentaries of > Jaimini which says 7 charakaraka is only for those those who can > procreate. Honestly i would love to learn and probe deeper. > > > > > > Even i used to debate with seniors outside internet that 8 > charakaraka is only for humans it is then they quoted the various > commentaries which show that both schemes have existed since time > immemorial & during those times it was paramparic way of learning that > is memorising and quoting shlokas from various commentaries to know the > difference of viewpoint and not today when we cant quote. > > > > > > On nostalgia on same topic i had asked K N Rao in 2004 to write an > article comparing 7 vs 8 charakaraka on 20 charts for us to understand > it better but he never did it so far. Maybe some of us can do that or > already have done that. > > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if > > > you have time could you mention something about how it works. > Ferrante > > > does not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis? > > > > > > Right click on degrees in Jhora and select Navamsa Degrees, u will > find in Ferrantes chart some planets in same degrees then his life story > falls into picture i guess. > > > > > > best wishes > > > Sunil John > > > Mumbai > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil, > > > > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said > that one can use either. That would be great, then I would have > rajyogas in my chart that I can look forward to! However I was taught > that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, > like buildings and cars. Parasara says that some Astrolgers use it. > Can you explain, based on your understanding and experience how one can > use either? > > > > > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if > you have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante > does not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis? > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ... > > > > sohamsa@ .com > > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:28:37 PM > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to > Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > Dear Michal, > > > > I had my software tuned to 7 charakaraka scheme as i was using > chara dasha in previous chart, with that Amk is actually Mars and with 8 > charakaraka it is Rahu. One can use either. > > > > > > > > Another interesting thing to note about this chart is that there > is charakaraka replacement in his Navamsa, i don't know if Sanjay uses > this or has taught his students but there are some traditions in Andhra > where the tradition of Jaimini is prevalent who use charakaraka > replacement in divisionals. > > > > > > > > Navamsa is also the chart of ones religious bent and charakaraka > replacement happening in Navamsa is significant in his life wherein he > has undergone a religious transformation. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Sunil John > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil, Patheya, > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is actually the AmK and is the 5th lord conjoined exalted > Lagnesha in the 6th house forming a powerful dhimanta yoga inclined very > much towards the Asuras. > > > > > > > > > > The 7th house of partnerships is very interesting - and this > also happens to be the 9th from the AL which protects him. > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ... > > > > > sohamsa@ .com > > > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 6:41:05 PM > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to > Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > > Dear Patheya, > > > > > His time of birth is 6 pm as per his birth certificate. > > > > > > > > > > the chart looks fine with a 2 min look some yogas seem to match > his career path though being a mafia don cannot be said with certainty > by anyone. > > > > > > > > > > An easy way to look is Saturn in 7H will destroy his career and > transform his religious ideas and most important destroy his buddhi to > take up to mafia related work. Mars retro being Amk in 2H of livelihood > rules what he did > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter Ketu in 12H also gave him the transformation he needed, > i have a friend who has Jupiter Ketu in 8H she transformed from > Christainity to hinduism. > > > > > > > > > > Others can add > > > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > > Sunil > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Patheya Goyal <patheyagoyal@ > ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > His name is Louis Ferrante. > > > > > > > > > > > > Patheya > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... wrote: > > > > > > Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... > > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to > Mensch > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com > > > > > > Sunday, October 5, 2008, 8:52 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna Dear Patheya, Its possible someone has > already worked on his chart, what is his name? All the best Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > Patheya Goyal patheyagoyal@ ... wrote: Respected > Gurujans, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have partial data about a person who has has erstwhile been > a notorious mafia don belonging to the infamous Gambino family crime > network. As per the sources I have collected on him, it was by > > > > > > mid-90s that law and the FBI caught up with him and he was > given a 10 years' sentence. But the blurbs on his books suggest that he > spent about 8 and 1/2 years [one source puts his release time as > December 2006] in maximum security federal prison during which time he > read his first book and underwent life transforming moments through > certain encounters. He took to writing and is now an established author. > He also spends time with wayward youth populations now mentoring them. I > found him very articulate, intelligent, and reflective during an > interview given to the BBC. I thought there might be interesting and > certainly instructive things to learn from his chart. However, I only > have his date and place of birth - 13 May 1969, Queens, New York. I was > wondering if Gurujans will indulge and suggest how we might figure his > chart out? Looking forward to learning from everyone. Best > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Patheya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 Dear Mr John The word *Putra* is explicitly stated in the slokas pertaining to the Chara Karaka. If you are going to be determined about your not reading it, then it is your wish. Andhra is the land of Jaimini!! Lets leave all personal comments out You are being moderated. Best Wishes Sanjay Rath P sohamsa , " suniljohn_2002 " <suniljohn_2002 wrote: > > OM Datta Guru > Dear Michal, > It is right there in Parasaras shloka > SJ > > > sohamsa , Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@> wrote: > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > Dear Sunil, > > > > Ok, goodbye. But hey, if you do happen to find out how/why to use 7 > CK for human beings let me know. > > > > With regards to you and your master, > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ > > sohamsa > > Thursday, October 9, 2008 7:01:29 PM > > Re: 7 & 8 Charakaraka > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > Dear Michal, > > > > Not an issue but if u really have open heart to learn then re-read my > previous mail the answer is within that mail itself. It only shows what > some scholars in the land of Jaimini (Andhra Pradesh) have been also > using. It does not say that it is the ultimate truth. Ideally I would > never have replied to a mail which has something like this > > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you > > said that one can use either. That would be great, then I would have > > rajyogas in my chart that I can look forward to! > > > > If we take this bhavana to a jyotishi asking for query one is only > shown the door in Varanasi the center of jyotish knowledge since time > immemorial, and so is this the case in any parampara. Oh ya if we dish > out dollars or provide platform for international fame then one can get > information from a jyotishi inspite of this bhavana but not from a true > jyotishi. > > > > It is for this reason i had humbly written how a Shastra learning has > been done in the ancient times and tried to explain that till those > books come out on Jaimini which our ancients have written we cannot form > any fixed opinion on what is or could be the ultimate truth since our > ancients used both karaka scheme have been used by scholars since > hundreds of years and this 7/8 scheme debate is nothing new except for > the young ones. I tried to give the opinion of the Late Vemuri Shastri > as has been told to me by one of his students and Vemuri till date is > regarded as one of the greatest Jaimini scholars that lived and we heard > of in the last 100 years who used to predict the date (not hear say but > one of my mentors has tasted his predictions) of an event. How many > Jaimini Scholars alive today can do that, lets ask that question. I am > not trying to demean scholars that are alive today but only trying to be > honest in my approach & not be under anyones > > illusion. > > > > If we do not know what classics of Jaimini astrology have said what is > the use of discussing the subject is what i wanted to put across, > without that knowledge it is akin to two fools banging their heads. I > would rather be honest to Sage Jaimini in my quest for his true > teachings than to any parampara that teaches me to demean others. > > > > To end this discussion have we ever thought as to 'How come Parasara > himself knowing that there are two views on the said subject did not > vehemently denounce the other views & offer an explanation' - this is > the real approach to astrology never to denounce another ones view. No > Sage has ever done it, i guess only we men looking for cheap fame try to > do it and when we do it we cant call ourselves a true student of jyotish > or a true Guru as no true Guru will allow his students to demean anyone. > > > > It is better to be honest and say i do not know what our classics have > said so i will not pass any opinion on a topic, this honesty is so rare > to find. > > > > This is what i repeatedly learnt from a 92 yr old master of nadis > about whom many seniors of this list know of my association with. > > > > Goodbye > > > > Sunil John > > Mumbai > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..> > wrote: > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > Dear Sunil, > > > > > > Not to sound disrespectful but you have not answered my question > regarding 7 & 8 CK. Perhaps you can't which is fine, but then you > really should just say so. > > > > > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various > > > commentaries of Jaimini which says 7 charakaraka is only for those > > > those who can procreate. Honestly i would love to learn and probe > > > deeper. > > > > > > Sorry, you got me there, I am but a humble student and I cannot > provide for you the translation of the appropriate shlokas in the > relevant texts. I have read interpretations of CK's where putra or > pitri karaka is absent, particularly by K.N. Rao. I kept reading, > waiting for the explanation for this but it must not have seemed > important to the author to mention the basis for why these CK are not > necessary. (If I ever meet Mr. Rao again then this time I will be > prepared to ask him). So I struggled with various charts, including my > own rajyogas (and lack of the same) based on the 7 scheme until I learnt > the basis of the 8 scheme - what a relief it made sense. If someone can > explain to me why human souls don't need a PK or PiK, or how they > 'merge' then I will examine that also. > > > > > > Regarding Ferrante's chart. If I understand you correctly about the > Navamsa, Moon and Mars, Sun and Jupiter are at the same degree. Perhaps > the replacement of AK Sun in this division by Jupiter could create such > a change in a persons life. Thank you for sharing this. > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ... > > > sohamsa@ .com > > > Wednesday, October 8, 2008 7:48:54 PM > > > 7 & 8 Charakaraka > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > Dear Michal, > > > Michal when we learn a shastra we need to learn > > > by the sanskrit verses & quotations of various classics in respect > > > to the variations in opinions on a single topic. Unfortunately that > is > > > not prevalent in the cities or in internet paramparas today. Sanjay > > > uses 8, K N Rao uses 7 - both find success in it whereas i find > success > > > in 8 as thats what i learnt in internet parampara but thats my > personal experience (maybe biased) which does not demean the > > > experience of K N Rao who has proved since decades that he is one of > > > the best predictors in the business than anyone around but does that > prove his > > > point of being superior in his understanding of charakaraka scheme > than Sanjays, or vice versa, if one says so that would be a small mans > way of talking. Today we talk of Sanjay Vs Rao but the point is since > time immemorial these debates in the karakas have existed and one finds > it in Jyotish Phala Ratnamala, Sarasangraha and various other > commentaries - unfortunately todays paramparas cannot even quote the > verses, the way of learning a shastra is to read the moola kitab and > also its various commentaries. U can ask any internet Jaimini Scholar > and they wont even know how many commentaries of Jaimini are there > considered important. I have asked for this list on various forums but > Internet Paramparas could not answer/guide. > > > > > > See this verse from Parasara > > > > > > > > > Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas > > > 1-2. I now detail below Atma Karak etc., obtainable from > > > among the 7 Grahas, viz. Surya to ´Sani. Some say, that > > > Rahu will become a Karak, when there is a state of similarity in > > > terms of longitude between (two) Grahas. Yet some say, that the > > > 8 Grahas, including Rahu, will have to be considered > > > irrespective of such a state.Parasara has shown here that even > during his time there were two views, he does not demean the other view > or writer, not even subtly, a quality that u find in good people from > good family backgrounds. > > > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said > > > that one can use either. That would be great, then I would have > > > rajyogas in my chart that I can look forward to! > > > The other view point which i stated in earlier mail is these sect > use 7 & 8 charakaraka and only when two planets are in same long then 8 > comes into the picture, this is what a scholar from Jaimini Lineage who > can trace 14 generations of his parampara use it whereas Sanjay uses 8 > and Rao 7. Also another student of Vemuri who has written 2000 pages on > Jaimini astro (finished recently but not yet published) uses the same 7 > & 8. I am sure you know the authority of Vemuri Shastry. > > > > > > > > > However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those > that can't have children, like buildings and cars. > > > > > > > > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various commentaries of > Jaimini which says 7 charakaraka is only for those those who can > procreate. Honestly i would love to learn and probe deeper. > > > > > > Even i used to debate with seniors outside internet that 8 > charakaraka is only for humans it is then they quoted the various > commentaries which show that both schemes have existed since time > immemorial & during those times it was paramparic way of learning that > is memorising and quoting shlokas from various commentaries to know the > difference of viewpoint and not today when we cant quote. > > > > > > On nostalgia on same topic i had asked K N Rao in 2004 to write an > article comparing 7 vs 8 charakaraka on 20 charts for us to understand > it better but he never did it so far. Maybe some of us can do that or > already have done that. > > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if > > > you have time could you mention something about how it works. > Ferrante > > > does not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis? > > > > > > Right click on degrees in Jhora and select Navamsa Degrees, u will > find in Ferrantes chart some planets in same degrees then his life story > falls into picture i guess. > > > > > > best wishes > > > Sunil John > > > Mumbai > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil, > > > > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said > that one can use either. That would be great, then I would have > rajyogas in my chart that I can look forward to! However I was taught > that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, > like buildings and cars. Parasara says that some Astrolgers use it. > Can you explain, based on your understanding and experience how one can > use either? > > > > > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if > you have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante > does not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis? > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ... > > > > sohamsa@ .com > > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:28:37 PM > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to > Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > Dear Michal, > > > > I had my software tuned to 7 charakaraka scheme as i was using > chara dasha in previous chart, with that Amk is actually Mars and with 8 > charakaraka it is Rahu. One can use either. > > > > > > > > Another interesting thing to note about this chart is that there > is charakaraka replacement in his Navamsa, i don't know if Sanjay uses > this or has taught his students but there are some traditions in Andhra > where the tradition of Jaimini is prevalent who use charakaraka > replacement in divisionals. > > > > > > > > Navamsa is also the chart of ones religious bent and charakaraka > replacement happening in Navamsa is significant in his life wherein he > has undergone a religious transformation. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Sunil John > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil, Patheya, > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is actually the AmK and is the 5th lord conjoined exalted > Lagnesha in the 6th house forming a powerful dhimanta yoga inclined very > much towards the Asuras. > > > > > > > > > > The 7th house of partnerships is very interesting - and this > also happens to be the 9th from the AL which protects him. > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ... > > > > > sohamsa@ .com > > > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 6:41:05 PM > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to > Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > > Dear Patheya, > > > > > His time of birth is 6 pm as per his birth certificate. > > > > > > > > > > the chart looks fine with a 2 min look some yogas seem to match > his career path though being a mafia don cannot be said with certainty > by anyone. > > > > > > > > > > An easy way to look is Saturn in 7H will destroy his career and > transform his religious ideas and most important destroy his buddhi to > take up to mafia related work. Mars retro being Amk in 2H of livelihood > rules what he did > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter Ketu in 12H also gave him the transformation he needed, > i have a friend who has Jupiter Ketu in 8H she transformed from > Christainity to hinduism. > > > > > > > > > > Others can add > > > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > > Sunil > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Patheya Goyal <patheyagoyal@ > ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > His name is Louis Ferrante. > > > > > > > > > > > > Patheya > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... wrote: > > > > > > Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... > > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to > Mensch > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com > > > > > > Sunday, October 5, 2008, 8:52 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna Dear Patheya, Its possible someone has > already worked on his chart, what is his name? All the best Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > Patheya Goyal patheyagoyal@ ... wrote: Respected > Gurujans, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have partial data about a person who has has erstwhile been > a notorious mafia don belonging to the infamous Gambino family crime > network. As per the sources I have collected on him, it was by > > > > > > mid-90s that law and the FBI caught up with him and he was > given a 10 years' sentence. But the blurbs on his books suggest that he > spent about 8 and 1/2 years [one source puts his release time as > December 2006] in maximum security federal prison during which time he > read his first book and underwent life transforming moments through > certain encounters. He took to writing and is now an established author. > He also spends time with wayward youth populations now mentoring them. I > found him very articulate, intelligent, and reflective during an > interview given to the BBC. I thought there might be interesting and > certainly instructive things to learn from his chart. However, I only > have his date and place of birth - 13 May 1969, Queens, New York. I was > wondering if Gurujans will indulge and suggest how we might figure his > chart out? Looking forward to learning from everyone. Best > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Patheya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Namaste friends, In my humble opinion, neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath got it right. The verses of Parasara are quite complex. The translations available are terrible, illogical and do not do justice to Parasara's verses at all. One CAN give a consistent and logical interpretation of Parasara's verses. Neither Sri KN Rao's teachings nor Pt Sanjay Rath's teachings are based on a consistent or logical interpretation of Parasara. Both deviate from Parasara's teachings. I am quite convinced. At this time, I cannot say anything more on this topic. Happy Viajaya Dasami to all of you! Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org sohamsa , "suniljohn_2002" <suniljohn_2002 wrote:>> Om Datta Guru> Dear Michal,> Michal when we learn a shastra we need to learn by the sanskrit verses & > quotations of various classics in respect to the variations in opinions> on a single topic. Unfortunately that is not prevalent in the cities or> in internet paramparas today. Sanjay uses 8, K N Rao uses 7 - both find> success in it whereas i find success in 8 as thats what i learnt in> internet parampara but thats my personal experience (maybe biased) which> does not demean the experience of K N Rao who has proved since decades> that he is one of the best predictors in the business than anyone around> but does that prove his point of being superior in his understanding of> charakaraka scheme than Sanjays, or vice versa, if one says so that> would be a small mans way of talking. Today we talk of Sanjay Vs Rao but> the point is since time immemorial these debates in the karakas have> existed and one finds it in Jyotish Phala Ratnamala, Sarasangraha and> various other commentaries - unfortunately todays paramparas cannot even> quote the verses, the way of learning a shastra is to read the moola> kitab and also its various commentaries. U can ask any internet Jaimini> Scholar and they wont even know how many commentaries of Jaimini are> there considered important. I have asked for this list on various forums> but Internet Paramparas could not answer/guide.> > See this verse from Parasara> > Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas> 1-2. I now detail below Atma Karak etc., obtainable from among the 7> Grahas, viz. Surya to ´Sani. Some say, that Rahu will become a> Karak, when there is a state of similarity in terms of longitude between> (two) Grahas. Yet some say, that the 8 Grahas, including Rahu, will have> to be considered irrespective of such a state.> Parasara has shown here that even during his time there were two views,> he does not demean the other view or writer, not even subtly, a quality> that u find in good people from good family backgrounds.> > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that> one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in> my chart that I can look forward to!> The other view point which i stated in earlier mail is these sect use 7> & 8 charakaraka and only when two planets are in same long then 8 comes> into the picture, this is what a scholar from Jaimini Lineage who can> trace 14 generations of his parampara use it whereas Sanjay uses 8 and> Rao 7. Also another student of Vemuri who has written 2000 pages on> Jaimini astro (finished recently but not yet published) uses the same 7> & 8. I am sure you know the authority of Vemuri Shastry.> > However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that> can't have children, like buildings and cars.> > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various commentaries of Jaimini> which says 7 charakaraka is only for those those who can procreate.> Honestly i would love to learn and probe deeper.> > Even i used to debate with seniors outside internet that 8 charakaraka> is only for humans it is then they quoted the various commentaries which> show that both schemes have existed since time immemorial & during those> times it was paramparic way of learning that is memorising and quoting> shlokas from various commentaries to know the difference of viewpoint> and not today when we cant quote.> > On nostalgia on same topic i had asked K N Rao in 2004 to write an> article comparing 7 vs 8 charakaraka on 20 charts for us to understand> it better but he never did it so far. Maybe some of us can do that or> already have done that.> > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you> have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does> not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis?> > Right click on degrees in Jhora and select Navamsa Degrees, u will find> in Ferrantes chart some planets in same degrees then his life story> falls into picture i guess.> > best wishes> Sunil John> Mumbai> > sohamsa , Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@> wrote:> >> > Hare Rama Krsna ||> >> > Dear Sunil,> >> > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that> one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in> my chart that I can look forward to! However I was taught that 7> charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like> buildings and cars. Parasara says that some Astrolgers use it. Can you> explain, based on your understanding and experience how one can use> either?> > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you> have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does> not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis?> >> > Respectfully,> > Michal> >> > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@> > sohamsa > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:28:37 PM> > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch/His> Time as per birth certificat> >> >> > Om Datta Guru> > Dear Michal,> > I had my software tuned to 7 charakaraka scheme as i was using chara> dasha in previous chart, with that Amk is actually Mars and with 8> charakaraka it is Rahu. One can use either.> >> > Another interesting thing to note about this chart is that there is> charakaraka replacement in his Navamsa, i don't know if Sanjay uses this> or has taught his students but there are some traditions in Andhra where> the tradition of Jaimini is prevalent who use charakaraka replacement in> divisionals.> >> > Navamsa is also the chart of ones religious bent and charakaraka> replacement happening in Navamsa is significant in his life wherein he> has undergone a religious transformation.> >> > Regards> > Sunil John> >> > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..>> wrote:> > >> > > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > >> > > Dear Sunil, Patheya,> > >> > > Rahu is actually the AmK and is the 5th lord conjoined exalted> Lagnesha in the 6th house forming a powerful dhimanta yoga inclined very> much towards the Asuras.> > >> > > The 7th house of partnerships is very interesting - and this also> happens to be the 9th from the AL which protects him.> > >> > > Respectfully,> > > Michal> > >> > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ...> > > sohamsa@ .com> > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 6:41:05 PM> > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to> Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat> > >> > >> > > Om Datta Guru> > > Dear Patheya,> > > His time of birth is 6 pm as per his birth certificate.> > >> > > the chart looks fine with a 2 min look some yogas seem to match his> career path though being a mafia don cannot be said with certainty by> anyone.> > >> > > An easy way to look is Saturn in 7H will destroy his career and> transform his religious ideas and most important destroy his buddhi to> take up to mafia related work. Mars retro being Amk in 2H of livelihood> rules what he did> > >> > > Jupiter Ketu in 12H also gave him the transformation he needed, i> have a friend who has Jupiter Ketu in 8H she transformed from> Christainity to hinduism.> > >> > > Others can add> > >> > > best wishes> > > Sunil> > >> > > sohamsa@ .com, Patheya Goyal <patheyagoyal@ ...>> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Lakshmi ji,> > > >> > > > His name is Louis Ferrante.> > > >> > > > Patheya> > > >> > > > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... wrote:> > > > Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ...> > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch> > > > sohamsa@ .com> > > > Sunday, October 5, 2008, 8:52 PM> > > >> > > > Hare Rama Krishna Dear Patheya, Its possible someone has already> worked on his chart, what is his name? All the best Lakshmi> > > >> > > > Patheya Goyal patheyagoyal@ ... wrote: Respected> Gurujans,> > > >> > > > I have partial data about a person who has has erstwhile been a> notorious mafia don belonging to the infamous Gambino family crime> network. As per the sources I have collected on him, it was by> > > > mid-90s that law and the FBI caught up with him and he was given> a 10 years' sentence. But the blurbs on his books suggest that he spent> about 8 and 1/2 years [one source puts his release time as December> 2006] in maximum security federal prison during which time he read his> first book and underwent life transforming moments through certain> encounters. He took to writing and is now an established author. He also> spends time with wayward youth populations now mentoring them. I found> him very articulate, intelligent, and reflective during an interview> given to the BBC. I thought there might be interesting and certainly> instructive things to learn from his chart. However, I only have his> date and place of birth - 13 May 1969, Queens, New York. I was wondering> if Gurujans will indulge and suggest how we might figure his chart out?> Looking forward to learning from everyone. Best> > > > regards,> > > >> > > > Patheya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Hare Rama Krishna Dear Narasimha, I was really surprised to read your post. Although I am your junior I need to object here. Please do not insult Sanjay in public,especially on his forum. It really is un becoming of someone of your stature.. Also wasnt KR Rao one of your gurus at one time? It is fine to have another opinion, but you talk as if your view/opinion is more expert than anyones elses .Perhaps you have outgrown your gurus, and feel you want to teach them something now? In your post you fail to give your thoughts to what is the proper and "logical" interpretations. Without giving your interpretation while deriding others is in poor taste. I hope it was just a lapse in your consciousness. Sorry for the harshness in my words, but I hope to convey my shock and disappointment in the way you replied. Best wishes Lakshmi "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr wrote: Namaste friends, In my humble opinion, neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath got it right. The verses of Parasara are quite complex. The translations available are terrible, illogical and do not do justice to Parasara's verses at all. One CAN give a consistent and logical interpretation of Parasara's verses. Neither Sri KN Rao's teachings nor Pt Sanjay Rath's teachings are based on a consistent or logical interpretation of Parasara. Both deviate from Parasara's teachings. I am quite convinced. At this time, I cannot say anything more on this topic. Happy Viajaya Dasami to all of you! Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org sohamsa , "suniljohn_2002" <suniljohn_2002 wrote:>> Om Datta Guru> Dear Michal,> Michal when we learn a shastra we need to learn by the sanskrit verses & > quotations of various classics in respect to the variations in opinions> on a single topic. Unfortunately that is not prevalent in the cities or> in internet paramparas today. Sanjay uses 8, K N Rao uses 7 - both find> success in it whereas i find success in 8 as thats what i learnt in> internet parampara but thats my personal experience (maybe biased) which> does not demean the experience of K N Rao who has proved since decades> that he is one of the best predictors in the business than anyone around> but does that prove his point of being superior in his understanding of> charakaraka scheme than Sanjays, or vice versa, if one says so that> would be a small mans way of talking. Today we talk of Sanjay Vs Rao but> the point is since time immemorial these debates in the karakas have> existed and one finds it in Jyotish Phala Ratnamala, Sarasangraha and> various other commentaries - unfortunately todays paramparas cannot even> quote the verses, the way of learning a shastra is to read the moola> kitab and also its various commentaries. U can ask any internet Jaimini> Scholar and they wont even know how many commentaries of Jaimini are> there considered important. I have asked for this list on various forums> but Internet Paramparas could not answer/guide.> > See this verse from Parasara> > Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas> 1-2. I now detail below Atma Karak etc., obtainable from among the 7> Grahas, viz. Surya to ´Sani. Some say, that Rahu will become a> Karak, when there is a state of similarity in terms of longitude between> (two) Grahas. Yet some say, that the 8 Grahas, including Rahu, will have> to be considered irrespective of such a state.> Parasara has shown here that even during his time there were two views,> he does not demean the other view or writer, not even subtly, a quality> that u find in good people from good family backgrounds.> > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that> one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in> my chart that I can look forward to!> The other view point which i stated in earlier mail is these sect use 7> & 8 charakaraka and only when two planets are in same long then 8 comes> into the picture, this is what a scholar from Jaimini Lineage who can> trace 14 generations of his parampara use it whereas Sanjay uses 8 and> Rao 7. Also another student of Vemuri who has written 2000 pages on> Jaimini astro (finished recently but not yet published) uses the same 7> & 8. I am sure you know the authority of Vemuri Shastry.> > However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that> can't have children, like buildings and cars.> > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various commentaries of Jaimini> which says 7 charakaraka is only for those those who can procreate.> Honestly i would love to learn and probe deeper.> > Even i used to debate with seniors outside internet that 8 charakaraka> is only for humans it is then they quoted the various commentaries which> show that both schemes have existed since time immemorial & during those> times it was paramparic way of learning that is memorising and quoting> shlokas from various commentaries to know the difference of viewpoint> and not today when we cant quote.> > On nostalgia on same topic i had asked K N Rao in 2004 to write an> article comparing 7 vs 8 charakaraka on 20 charts for us to understand> it better but he never did it so far. Maybe some of us can do that or> already have done that.> > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you> have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does> not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis?> > Right click on degrees in Jhora and select Navamsa Degrees, u will find> in Ferrantes chart some planets in same degrees then his life story> falls into picture i guess.> > best wishes> Sunil John> Mumbai> > sohamsa , Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@> wrote:> >> > Hare Rama Krsna ||> >> > Dear Sunil,> >> > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that> one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in> my chart that I can look forward to! However I was taught that 7> charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like> buildings and cars. Parasara says that some Astrolgers use it. Can you> explain, based on your understanding and experience how one can use> either?> > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you> have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does> not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis?> >> > Respectfully,> > Michal> >> > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@> > sohamsa > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:28:37 PM> > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch/His> Time as per birth certificat> >> >> > Om Datta Guru> > Dear Michal,> > I had my software tuned to 7 charakaraka scheme as i was using chara> dasha in previous chart, with that Amk is actually Mars and with 8> charakaraka it is Rahu. One can use either.> >> > Another interesting thing to note about this chart is that there is> charakaraka replacement in his Navamsa, i don't know if Sanjay uses this> or has taught his students but there are some traditions in Andhra where> the tradition of Jaimini is prevalent who use charakaraka replacement in> divisionals.> >> > Navamsa is also the chart of ones religious bent and charakaraka> replacement happening in Navamsa is significant in his life wherein he> has undergone a religious transformation.> >> > Regards> > Sunil John> >> > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..>> wrote:> > >> > > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > >> > > Dear Sunil, Patheya,> > >> > > Rahu is actually the AmK and is the 5th lord conjoined exalted> Lagnesha in the 6th house forming a powerful dhimanta yoga inclined very> much towards the Asuras.> > >> > > The 7th house of partnerships is very interesting - and this also> happens to be the 9th from the AL which protects him.> > >> > > Respectfully,> > > Michal> > >> > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ...> > > sohamsa@ .com> > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 6:41:05 PM> > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to> Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat> > >> > >> > > Om Datta Guru> > > Dear Patheya,> > > His time of birth is 6 pm as per his birth certificate.> > >> > > the chart looks fine with a 2 min look some yogas seem to match his> career path though being a mafia don cannot be said with certainty by> anyone.> > >> > > An easy way to look is Saturn in 7H will destroy his career and> transform his religious ideas and most important destroy his buddhi to> take up to mafia related work. Mars retro being Amk in 2H of livelihood> rules what he did> > >> > > Jupiter Ketu in 12H also gave him the transformation he needed, i> have a friend who has Jupiter Ketu in 8H she transformed from> Christainity to hinduism.> > >> > > Others can add> > >> > > best wishes> > > Sunil> > >> > > sohamsa@ .com, Patheya Goyal <patheyagoyal@ ...>> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Lakshmi ji,> > > >> > > > His name is Louis Ferrante.> > > >> > > > Patheya> > > >> > > > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... wrote:> > > > Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ...> > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch> > > > sohamsa@ .com> > > > Sunday, October 5, 2008, 8:52 PM> > > >> > > > Hare Rama Krishna Dear Patheya, Its possible someone has already> worked on his chart, what is his name? All the best Lakshmi> > > >> > > > Patheya Goyal patheyagoyal@ ... wrote: Respected> Gurujans,> > > >> > > > I have partial data about a person who has has erstwhile been a> notorious mafia don belonging to the infamous Gambino family crime> network. As per the sources I have collected on him, it was by> > > > mid-90s that law and the FBI caught up with him and he was given> a 10 years' sentence. But the blurbs on his books suggest that he spent> about 8 and 1/2 years [one source puts his release time as December> 2006] in maximum security federal prison during which time he read his> first book and underwent life transforming moments through certain> encounters. He took to writing and is now an established author. He also> spends time with wayward youth populations now mentoring them. I found> him very articulate, intelligent, and reflective during an interview> given to the BBC. I thought there might be interesting and certainly> instructive things to learn from his chart. However, I only have his> date and place of birth - 13 May 1969, Queens, New York. I was wondering> if Gurujans will indulge and suggest how we might figure his chart out?> Looking forward to learning from everyone. Best> > > > regards,> > > >> > > > Patheya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Namaste Lakshmi, > Please do not insult Sanjay in public,especially on his forum. :-) Does expressing an honest disagreement amount to an "insult"? > Also wasnt KR Rao one of your gurus at one time? For the record, KN Rao was not one of my gurus at any time. I did read some of his books, like I read many other authors. I consider only my father, Dr BV Raman and Pt Sanjay Rath as my gurus and not KN Rao. > Perhaps you have outgrown your gurus, and feel > you want to teach them something now? :-) I humbly suggest that you are approaching this with a very wrong attitude, reading between lines and jumping to heavy conclusions. I do not want to "teach" anyone anything. I only want to share my views with others just in case there is some worth in them and someone benefits. > Without giving your interpretation while deriding others is in poor taste. Hmmm, derision? * * * I am interested in neither praising/patronizing anyone nor in insulting/deriding anyone. It is sad that people see everything in those terms. I am only interested in knowledge and not in personalities. Personalities come and go and only knowledge stays. Peronalities are associated with limited egos, while knowledge is not. Regarding giving my interpretation, I will certainly do so. Perhaps some other people can make a serious and sincere effort to go through Parasara's verses carefully and try to understand him, before I write more on this. I WILL write more on this later, but not now. Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org sohamsa , Lakshmi Kary <lakshmikary wrote:>> Hare Rama Krishna> Dear Narasimha,> I was really surprised to read your post. Although I am your junior I need to object here.> Please do not insult Sanjay in public,especially on his forum. It really is un becoming of someone of your stature..> Also wasnt KR Rao one of your gurus at one time? > It is fine to have another opinion, but you talk as if your view/opinion is more expert than anyones elses .Perhaps you have outgrown your gurus, and feel you want to teach them something now?> In your post you fail to give your thoughts to what is the proper and "logical" interpretations. Without giving your interpretation while deriding others is in poor taste.> I hope it was just a lapse in your consciousness.> Sorry for the harshness in my words, but I hope to convey my shock and disappointment in the way you replied.> Best wishes> Lakshmi> > "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr wrote:> Namaste friends,> > In my humble opinion, neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath got it right. The verses of Parasara are quite complex. The translations available are terrible, illogical and do not do justice to Parasara's verses at all.> > One CAN give a consistent and logical interpretation of Parasara's verses. Neither Sri KN Rao's teachings nor Pt Sanjay Rath's teachings are based on a consistent or logical interpretation of Parasara. Both deviate from Parasara's teachings. I am quite convinced.> > At this time, I cannot say anything more on this topic.> > Happy Viajaya Dasami to all of you!> > Best regards,> Narasimha> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana> Spirituality: > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > sohamsa , "suniljohn_2002" <suniljohn_2002@> wrote:> >> > Om Datta Guru> > Dear Michal,> > Michal when we learn a shastra we need to learn by the sanskrit verses & > > quotations of various classics in respect to the variations in opinions> > on a single topic. Unfortunately that is not prevalent in the cities or> > in internet paramparas today. Sanjay uses 8, K N Rao uses 7 - both find> > success in it whereas i find success in 8 as thats what i learnt in> > internet parampara but thats my personal experience (maybe biased) which> > does not demean the experience of K N Rao who has proved since decades> > that he is one of the best predictors in the business than anyone around> > but does that prove his point of being superior in his understanding of> > charakaraka scheme than Sanjays, or vice versa, if one says so that> > would be a small mans way of talking. Today we talk of Sanjay Vs Rao but> > the point is since time immemorial these debates in the karakas have> > existed and one finds it in Jyotish Phala Ratnamala, Sarasangraha and> > various other commentaries - unfortunately todays paramparas cannot even> > quote the verses, the way of learning a shastra is to read the moola> > kitab and also its various commentaries. U can ask any internet Jaimini> > Scholar and they wont even know how many commentaries of Jaimini are> > there considered important. I have asked for this list on various forums> > but Internet Paramparas could not answer/guide.> > > > See this verse from Parasara> > > > Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas> > 1-2. I now detail below Atma Karak etc., obtainable from among the 7> > Grahas, viz. Surya to ´Sani. Some say, that Rahu will become a> > Karak, when there is a state of similarity in terms of longitude between> > (two) Grahas. Yet some say, that the 8 Grahas, including Rahu, will have> > to be considered irrespective of such a state.> > Parasara has shown here that even during his time there were two views,> > he does not demean the other view or writer, not even subtly, a quality> > that u find in good people from good family backgrounds.> > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that> > one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in> > my chart that I can look forward to!> > The other view point which i stated in earlier mail is these sect use 7> > & 8 charakaraka and only when two planets are in same long then 8 comes> > into the picture, this is what a scholar from Jaimini Lineage who can> > trace 14 generations of his parampara use it whereas Sanjay uses 8 and> > Rao 7. Also another student of Vemuri who has written 2000 pages on> > Jaimini astro (finished recently but not yet published) uses the same 7> > & 8. I am sure you know the authority of Vemuri Shastry.> > > > However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that> > can't have children, like buildings and cars.> > > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various commentaries of Jaimini> > which says 7 charakaraka is only for those those who can procreate.> > Honestly i would love to learn and probe deeper.> > > > Even i used to debate with seniors outside internet that 8 charakaraka> > is only for humans it is then they quoted the various commentaries which> > show that both schemes have existed since time immemorial & during those> > times it was paramparic way of learning that is memorising and quoting> > shlokas from various commentaries to know the difference of viewpoint> > and not today when we cant quote.> > > > On nostalgia on same topic i had asked K N Rao in 2004 to write an> > article comparing 7 vs 8 charakaraka on 20 charts for us to understand> > it better but he never did it so far. Maybe some of us can do that or> > already have done that.> > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you> > have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does> > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis?> > > > Right click on degrees in Jhora and select Navamsa Degrees, u will find> > in Ferrantes chart some planets in same degrees then his life story> > falls into picture i guess.> > > > best wishes> > Sunil John> > Mumbai> > > > sohamsa , Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@> wrote:> > >> > > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > >> > > Dear Sunil,> > >> > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that> > one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in> > my chart that I can look forward to! However I was taught that 7> > charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like> > buildings and cars. Parasara says that some Astrolgers use it. Can you> > explain, based on your understanding and experience how one can use> > either?> > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you> > have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does> > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis?> > >> > > Respectfully,> > > Michal> > >> > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@> > > sohamsa > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:28:37 PM> > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch/His> > Time as per birth certificat> > >> > >> > > Om Datta Guru> > > Dear Michal,> > > I had my software tuned to 7 charakaraka scheme as i was using chara> > dasha in previous chart, with that Amk is actually Mars and with 8> > charakaraka it is Rahu. One can use either.> > >> > > Another interesting thing to note about this chart is that there is> > charakaraka replacement in his Navamsa, i don't know if Sanjay uses this> > or has taught his students but there are some traditions in Andhra where> > the tradition of Jaimini is prevalent who use charakaraka replacement in> > divisionals.> > >> > > Navamsa is also the chart of ones religious bent and charakaraka> > replacement happening in Navamsa is significant in his life wherein he> > has undergone a religious transformation.> > >> > > Regards> > > Sunil John> > >> > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..>> > wrote:> > > >> > > > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > > >> > > > Dear Sunil, Patheya,> > > >> > > > Rahu is actually the AmK and is the 5th lord conjoined exalted> > Lagnesha in the 6th house forming a powerful dhimanta yoga inclined very> > much towards the Asuras.> > > >> > > > The 7th house of partnerships is very interesting - and this also> > happens to be the 9th from the AL which protects him.> > > >> > > > Respectfully,> > > > Michal> > > >> > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ...> > > > sohamsa@ .com> > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 6:41:05 PM> > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to> > Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat> > > >> > > >> > > > Om Datta Guru> > > > Dear Patheya,> > > > His time of birth is 6 pm as per his birth certificate.> > > >> > > > the chart looks fine with a 2 min look some yogas seem to match his> > career path though being a mafia don cannot be said with certainty by> > anyone.> > > >> > > > An easy way to look is Saturn in 7H will destroy his career and> > transform his religious ideas and most important destroy his buddhi to> > take up to mafia related work. Mars retro being Amk in 2H of livelihood> > rules what he did> > > >> > > > Jupiter Ketu in 12H also gave him the transformation he needed, i> > have a friend who has Jupiter Ketu in 8H she transformed from> > Christainity to hinduism.> > > >> > > > Others can add> > > >> > > > best wishes> > > > Sunil> > > >> > > > sohamsa@ .com, Patheya Goyal <patheyagoyal@ ...>> > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Lakshmi ji,> > > > >> > > > > His name is Louis Ferrante.> > > > >> > > > > Patheya> > > > >> > > > > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... wrote:> > > > > Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ...> > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch> > > > > sohamsa@ .com> > > > > Sunday, October 5, 2008, 8:52 PM> > > > >> > > > > Hare Rama Krishna Dear Patheya, Its possible someone has already> > worked on his chart, what is his name? All the best Lakshmi> > > > >> > > > > Patheya Goyal patheyagoyal@ ... wrote: Respected> > Gurujans,> > > > >> > > > > I have partial data about a person who has has erstwhile been a> > notorious mafia don belonging to the infamous Gambino family crime> > network. As per the sources I have collected on him, it was by> > > > > mid-90s that law and the FBI caught up with him and he was given> > a 10 years' sentence. But the blurbs on his books suggest that he spent> > about 8 and 1/2 years [one source puts his release time as December> > 2006] in maximum security federal prison during which time he read his> > first book and underwent life transforming moments through certain> > encounters. He took to writing and is now an established author. He also> > spends time with wayward youth populations now mentoring them. I found> > him very articulate, intelligent, and reflective during an interview> > given to the BBC. I thought there might be interesting and certainly> > instructive things to learn from his chart. However, I only have his> > date and place of birth - 13 May 1969, Queens, New York. I was wondering> > if Gurujans will indulge and suggest how we might figure his chart out?> > Looking forward to learning from everyone. Best> > > > > regards,> > > > >> > > > > Patheya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Namaste Lakshmi and others, In case the adjectives used in the following sentence caused discomfort, I can clarify: "The translations available are terrible, illogical and do not do justice to Parasara's verses at all." Neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath published any translations of BPHS. The adjectives in the above sentence relate to BPHS translations by Santhanam and others. Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org sohamsa , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr wrote:>> Namaste friends,> > In my humble opinion, neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath got it right. The verses of Parasara are quite complex. The translations available are terrible, illogical and do not do justice to Parasara's verses at all.> > One CAN give a consistent and logical interpretation of Parasara's verses. Neither Sri KN Rao's teachings nor Pt Sanjay Rath's teachings are based on a consistent or logical interpretation of Parasara. Both deviate from Parasara's teachings. I am quite convinced.> > At this time, I cannot say anything more on this topic.> > Happy Viajaya Dasami to all of you!> > Best regards,> Narasimha> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana> Spirituality: > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > sohamsa , "suniljohn_2002" <suniljohn_2002@> wrote:> >> > Om Datta Guru> > Dear Michal,> > Michal when we learn a shastra we need to learn by the sanskrit verses & > > quotations of various classics in respect to the variations in opinions> > on a single topic. Unfortunately that is not prevalent in the cities or> > in internet paramparas today. Sanjay uses 8, K N Rao uses 7 - both find> > success in it whereas i find success in 8 as thats what i learnt in> > internet parampara but thats my personal experience (maybe biased) which> > does not demean the experience of K N Rao who has proved since decades> > that he is one of the best predictors in the business than anyone around> > but does that prove his point of being superior in his understanding of> > charakaraka scheme than Sanjays, or vice versa, if one says so that> > would be a small mans way of talking. Today we talk of Sanjay Vs Rao but> > the point is since time immemorial these debates in the karakas have> > existed and one finds it in Jyotish Phala Ratnamala, Sarasangraha and> > various other commentaries - unfortunately todays paramparas cannot even> > quote the verses, the way of learning a shastra is to read the moola> > kitab and also its various commentaries. U can ask any internet Jaimini> > Scholar and they wont even know how many commentaries of Jaimini are> > there considered important. I have asked for this list on various forums> > but Internet Paramparas could not answer/guide.> > > > See this verse from Parasara> > > > Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas> > 1-2. I now detail below Atma Karak etc., obtainable from among the 7> > Grahas, viz. Surya to ´Sani. Some say, that Rahu will become a> > Karak, when there is a state of similarity in terms of longitude between> > (two) Grahas. Yet some say, that the 8 Grahas, including Rahu, will have> > to be considered irrespective of such a state.> > Parasara has shown here that even during his time there were two views,> > he does not demean the other view or writer, not even subtly, a quality> > that u find in good people from good family backgrounds.> > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that> > one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in> > my chart that I can look forward to!> > The other view point which i stated in earlier mail is these sect use 7> > & 8 charakaraka and only when two planets are in same long then 8 comes> > into the picture, this is what a scholar from Jaimini Lineage who can> > trace 14 generations of his parampara use it whereas Sanjay uses 8 and> > Rao 7. Also another student of Vemuri who has written 2000 pages on> > Jaimini astro (finished recently but not yet published) uses the same 7> > & 8. I am sure you know the authority of Vemuri Shastry.> > > > However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that> > can't have children, like buildings and cars.> > > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various commentaries of Jaimini> > which says 7 charakaraka is only for those those who can procreate.> > Honestly i would love to learn and probe deeper.> > > > Even i used to debate with seniors outside internet that 8 charakaraka> > is only for humans it is then they quoted the various commentaries which> > show that both schemes have existed since time immemorial & during those> > times it was paramparic way of learning that is memorising and quoting> > shlokas from various commentaries to know the difference of viewpoint> > and not today when we cant quote.> > > > On nostalgia on same topic i had asked K N Rao in 2004 to write an> > article comparing 7 vs 8 charakaraka on 20 charts for us to understand> > it better but he never did it so far. Maybe some of us can do that or> > already have done that.> > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you> > have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does> > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis?> > > > Right click on degrees in Jhora and select Navamsa Degrees, u will find> > in Ferrantes chart some planets in same degrees then his life story> > falls into picture i guess.> > > > best wishes> > Sunil John> > Mumbai> > > > sohamsa , Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@> wrote:> > >> > > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > >> > > Dear Sunil,> > >> > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that> > one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in> > my chart that I can look forward to! However I was taught that 7> > charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like> > buildings and cars. Parasara says that some Astrolgers use it. Can you> > explain, based on your understanding and experience how one can use> > either?> > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you> > have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does> > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis?> > >> > > Respectfully,> > > Michal> > >> > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@> > > sohamsa > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:28:37 PM> > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch/His> > Time as per birth certificat> > >> > >> > > Om Datta Guru> > > Dear Michal,> > > I had my software tuned to 7 charakaraka scheme as i was using chara> > dasha in previous chart, with that Amk is actually Mars and with 8> > charakaraka it is Rahu. One can use either.> > >> > > Another interesting thing to note about this chart is that there is> > charakaraka replacement in his Navamsa, i don't know if Sanjay uses this> > or has taught his students but there are some traditions in Andhra where> > the tradition of Jaimini is prevalent who use charakaraka replacement in> > divisionals.> > >> > > Navamsa is also the chart of ones religious bent and charakaraka> > replacement happening in Navamsa is significant in his life wherein he> > has undergone a religious transformation.> > >> > > Regards> > > Sunil John> > >> > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..>> > wrote:> > > >> > > > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > > >> > > > Dear Sunil, Patheya,> > > >> > > > Rahu is actually the AmK and is the 5th lord conjoined exalted> > Lagnesha in the 6th house forming a powerful dhimanta yoga inclined very> > much towards the Asuras.> > > >> > > > The 7th house of partnerships is very interesting - and this also> > happens to be the 9th from the AL which protects him.> > > >> > > > Respectfully,> > > > Michal> > > >> > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ...> > > > sohamsa@ .com> > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 6:41:05 PM> > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to> > Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat> > > >> > > >> > > > Om Datta Guru> > > > Dear Patheya,> > > > His time of birth is 6 pm as per his birth certificate.> > > >> > > > the chart looks fine with a 2 min look some yogas seem to match his> > career path though being a mafia don cannot be said with certainty by> > anyone.> > > >> > > > An easy way to look is Saturn in 7H will destroy his career and> > transform his religious ideas and most important destroy his buddhi to> > take up to mafia related work. Mars retro being Amk in 2H of livelihood> > rules what he did> > > >> > > > Jupiter Ketu in 12H also gave him the transformation he needed, i> > have a friend who has Jupiter Ketu in 8H she transformed from> > Christainity to hinduism.> > > >> > > > Others can add> > > >> > > > best wishes> > > > Sunil> > > >> > > > sohamsa@ .com, Patheya Goyal <patheyagoyal@ ...>> > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Lakshmi ji,> > > > >> > > > > His name is Louis Ferrante.> > > > >> > > > > Patheya> > > > >> > > > > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... wrote:> > > > > Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ...> > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch> > > > > sohamsa@ .com> > > > > Sunday, October 5, 2008, 8:52 PM> > > > >> > > > > Hare Rama Krishna Dear Patheya, Its possible someone has already> > worked on his chart, what is his name? All the best Lakshmi> > > > >> > > > > Patheya Goyal patheyagoyal@ ... wrote: Respected> > Gurujans,> > > > >> > > > > I have partial data about a person who has has erstwhile been a> > notorious mafia don belonging to the infamous Gambino family crime> > network. As per the sources I have collected on him, it was by> > > > > mid-90s that law and the FBI caught up with him and he was given> > a 10 years' sentence. But the blurbs on his books suggest that he spent> > about 8 and 1/2 years [one source puts his release time as December> > 2006] in maximum security federal prison during which time he read his> > first book and underwent life transforming moments through certain> > encounters. He took to writing and is now an established author. He also> > spends time with wayward youth populations now mentoring them. I found> > him very articulate, intelligent, and reflective during an interview> > given to the BBC. I thought there might be interesting and certainly> > instructive things to learn from his chart. However, I only have his> > date and place of birth - 13 May 1969, Queens, New York. I was wondering> > if Gurujans will indulge and suggest how we might figure his chart out?> > Looking forward to learning from everyone. Best> > > > > regards,> > > > >> > > > > Patheya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Dear Narasimha Once again you have come with a loaded statement without giving the technicalities. I have given a very detailed exposition of Parashara in my paper on Charakaraka which is available inmy books as well. To say that I have not translated Parashara is wrong. I may not have translated BPHS in totality but I have interpreted and translated Parashara in BPHS in various aspects related to jyotisha including the charakaraka. So, in this regard your statement is incorrect and should be withdrawn. To see individual slokas and interpret them without the others is the biggest curse to an astrologer. You have to get the big picture and for this have to take *all the shlokas* together and study them. I have done exactly this. I do not think anybody else in this world, other than giving parrot like useless loaded statements, has done any justice to this subject of charakaraka. As regards K N Rao, he can speak up for himself. Best Reagrds Sanjay Rath sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of Narasimha P.V.R. Rao 10 October 2008 08:21 sohamsa Re: 7 & 8 Charakaraka Namaste Lakshmi and others, In case the adjectives used in the following sentence caused discomfort, I can clarify: " The translations available are terrible, illogical and do not do justice to Parasara's verses at all. " Neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath published any translations of BPHS. The adjectives in the above sentence relate to BPHS translations by Santhanam and others. Best regards, Narasimha Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana Spirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org --- In sohamsa , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr wrote: > > Namaste friends, > > In my humble opinion, neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath got it right. The verses of Parasara are quite complex. The translations available are terrible, illogical and do not do justice to Parasara's verses at all. > > One CAN give a consistent and logical interpretation of Parasara's verses. Neither Sri KN Rao's teachings nor Pt Sanjay Rath's teachings are based on a consistent or logical interpretation of Parasara. Both deviate from Parasara's teachings. I am quite convinced. > > At this time, I cannot say anything more on this topic. > > Happy Viajaya Dasami to all of you! > > Best regards, > Narasimha > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana > Spirituality: > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > sohamsa , " suniljohn_2002 " <suniljohn_2002@> wrote: > > > > Om Datta Guru > > Dear Michal, > > Michal when we learn a shastra we need to learn by the sanskrit verses & > > quotations of various classics in respect to the variations in opinions > > on a single topic. Unfortunately that is not prevalent in the cities or > > in internet paramparas today. Sanjay uses 8, K N Rao uses 7 - both find > > success in it whereas i find success in 8 as thats what i learnt in > > internet parampara but thats my personal experience (maybe biased) which > > does not demean the experience of K N Rao who has proved since decades > > that he is one of the best predictors in the business than anyone around > > but does that prove his point of being superior in his understanding of > > charakaraka scheme than Sanjays, or vice versa, if one says so that > > would be a small mans way of talking. Today we talk of Sanjay Vs Rao but > > the point is since time immemorial these debates in the karakas have > > existed and one finds it in Jyotish Phala Ratnamala, Sarasangraha and > > various other commentaries - unfortunately todays paramparas cannot even > > quote the verses, the way of learning a shastra is to read the moola > > kitab and also its various commentaries. U can ask any internet Jaimini > > Scholar and they wont even know how many commentaries of Jaimini are > > there considered important. I have asked for this list on various forums > > but Internet Paramparas could not answer/guide. > > > > See this verse from Parasara > > > > Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas > > 1-2. I now detail below Atma Karak etc., obtainable from among the 7 > > Grahas, viz. Surya to ´Sani. Some say, that Rahu will become a > > Karak, when there is a state of similarity in terms of longitude between > > (two) Grahas. Yet some say, that the 8 Grahas, including Rahu, will have > > to be considered irrespective of such a state. > > Parasara has shown here that even during his time there were two views, > > he does not demean the other view or writer, not even subtly, a quality > > that u find in good people from good family backgrounds. > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that > > one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in > > my chart that I can look forward to! > > The other view point which i stated in earlier mail is these sect use 7 > > & 8 charakaraka and only when two planets are in same long then 8 comes > > into the picture, this is what a scholar from Jaimini Lineage who can > > trace 14 generations of his parampara use it whereas Sanjay uses 8 and > > Rao 7. Also another student of Vemuri who has written 2000 pages on > > Jaimini astro (finished recently but not yet published) uses the same 7 > > & 8. I am sure you know the authority of Vemuri Shastry. > > > > However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that > > can't have children, like buildings and cars. > > > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various commentaries of Jaimini > > which says 7 charakaraka is only for those those who can procreate. > > Honestly i would love to learn and probe deeper. > > > > Even i used to debate with seniors outside internet that 8 charakaraka > > is only for humans it is then they quoted the various commentaries which > > show that both schemes have existed since time immemorial & during those > > times it was paramparic way of learning that is memorising and quoting > > shlokas from various commentaries to know the difference of viewpoint > > and not today when we cant quote. > > > > On nostalgia on same topic i had asked K N Rao in 2004 to write an > > article comparing 7 vs 8 charakaraka on 20 charts for us to understand > > it better but he never did it so far. Maybe some of us can do that or > > already have done that. > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you > > have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does > > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis? > > > > Right click on degrees in Jhora and select Navamsa Degrees, u will find > > in Ferrantes chart some planets in same degrees then his life story > > falls into picture i guess. > > > > best wishes > > Sunil John > > Mumbai > > > > sohamsa , Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@> wrote: > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > Dear Sunil, > > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that > > one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in > > my chart that I can look forward to! However I was taught that 7 > > charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like > > buildings and cars. Parasara says that some Astrolgers use it. Can you > > explain, based on your understanding and experience how one can use > > either? > > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you > > have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does > > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis? > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ > > > sohamsa > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:28:37 PM > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch/His > > Time as per birth certificat > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > Dear Michal, > > > I had my software tuned to 7 charakaraka scheme as i was using chara > > dasha in previous chart, with that Amk is actually Mars and with 8 > > charakaraka it is Rahu. One can use either. > > > > > > Another interesting thing to note about this chart is that there is > > charakaraka replacement in his Navamsa, i don't know if Sanjay uses this > > or has taught his students but there are some traditions in Andhra where > > the tradition of Jaimini is prevalent who use charakaraka replacement in > > divisionals. > > > > > > Navamsa is also the chart of ones religious bent and charakaraka > > replacement happening in Navamsa is significant in his life wherein he > > has undergone a religious transformation. > > > > > > Regards > > > Sunil John > > > > > > sohamsa@ ..com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil, Patheya, > > > > > > > > Rahu is actually the AmK and is the 5th lord conjoined exalted > > Lagnesha in the 6th house forming a powerful dhimanta yoga inclined very > > much towards the Asuras. > > > > > > > > The 7th house of partnerships is very interesting - and this also > > happens to be the 9th from the AL which protects him. > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ... > > > > sohamsa@ ..com > > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 6:41:05 PM > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to > > Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > Dear Patheya, > > > > His time of birth is 6 pm as per his birth certificate. > > > > > > > > the chart looks fine with a 2 min look some yogas seem to match his > > career path though being a mafia don cannot be said with certainty by > > anyone. > > > > > > > > An easy way to look is Saturn in 7H will destroy his career and > > transform his religious ideas and most important destroy his buddhi to > > take up to mafia related work. Mars retro being Amk in 2H of livelihood > > rules what he did > > > > > > > > Jupiter Ketu in 12H also gave him the transformation he needed, i > > have a friend who has Jupiter Ketu in 8H she transformed from > > Christainity to hinduism. > > > > > > > > Others can add > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > Sunil > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ ..com, Patheya Goyal <patheyagoyal@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi ji, > > > > > > > > > > His name is Louis Ferrante. > > > > > > > > > > Patheya > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... wrote: > > > > > Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch > > > > > sohamsa@ ..com > > > > > Sunday, October 5, 2008, 8:52 PM > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna Dear Patheya, Its possible someone has already > > worked on his chart, what is his name? All the best Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > Patheya Goyal patheyagoyal@ ... wrote: Respected > > Gurujans, > > > > > > > > > > I have partial data about a person who has has erstwhile been a > > notorious mafia don belonging to the infamous Gambino family crime > > network. As per the sources I have collected on him, it was by > > > > > mid-90s that law and the FBI caught up with him and he was given > > a 10 years' sentence. But the blurbs on his books suggest that he spent > > about 8 and 1/2 years [one source puts his release time as December > > 2006] in maximum security federal prison during which time he read his > > first book and underwent life transforming moments through certain > > encounters. He took to writing and is now an established author. He also > > spends time with wayward youth populations now mentoring them. I found > > him very articulate, intelligent, and reflective during an interview > > given to the BBC. I thought there might be interesting and certainly > > instructive things to learn from his chart. However, I only have his > > date and place of birth - 13 May 1969, Queens, New York. I was wondering > > if Gurujans will indulge and suggest how we might figure his chart out? > > Looking forward to learning from everyone. Best > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > Patheya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Hare Rama Krishna Dear Narasimha, Thanks for the clarification I appreciate it.. but I hope you understand, there is a way to have a different opinion, but one should always be careful and respectful to the hand that feeds you, or in this case the guru who teaches you. This might make it clearer, try putting yourself on the other side of the fence.I simply substitute the names. Imagine you saw this on YOUR list- "Namaste friends, In my humble opinion, PVR Narasimha Rao has NOT got it right. The verses of Parasara are quite complex. The translations available are terrible, illogical and do not do justice to Parasara's verses at all. One CAN give a consistent and logical interpretation of Parasara's verses, but ,PVR Narasimha Rao's teachings are NOT based on a consistent or logical interpretation of Parasara. He deviates from Parasara's teachings. I am quite convinced. At this time, I cannot say anything more on this topic. Happy Viajaya Dasami to all of you! Best regards,Lakshmi"Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr wrote: Namaste Lakshmi, > Please do not insult Sanjay in public,especially on his forum. :-) Does expressing an honest disagreement amount to an "insult"? > Also wasnt KR Rao one of your gurus at one time? For the record, KN Rao was not one of my gurus at any time. I did read some of his books, like I read many other authors. I consider only my father, Dr BV Raman and Pt Sanjay Rath as my gurus and not KN Rao. > Perhaps you have outgrown your gurus, and feel > you want to teach them something now? :-) I humbly suggest that you are approaching this with a very wrong attitude, reading between lines and jumping to heavy conclusions. I do not want to "teach" anyone anything. I only want to share my views with others just in case there is some worth in them and someone benefits. > Without giving your interpretation while deriding others is in poor taste. Hmmm, derision? * * * I am interested in neither praising/patronizing anyone nor in insulting/deriding anyone. It is sad that people see everything in those terms. I am only interested in knowledge and not in personalities. Personalities come and go and only knowledge stays. Peronalities are associated with limited egos, while knowledge is not. Regarding giving my interpretation, I will certainly do so. Perhaps some other people can make a serious and sincere effort to go through Parasara's verses carefully and try to understand him, before I write more on this. I WILL write more on this later, but not now. Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org sohamsa , Lakshmi Kary <lakshmikary wrote:>> Hare Rama Krishna> Dear Narasimha,> I was really surprised to read your post. Although I am your junior I need to object here.> Please do not insult Sanjay in public,especially on his forum. It really is un becoming of someone of your stature..> Also wasnt KR Rao one of your gurus at one time? > It is fine to have another opinion, but you talk as if your view/opinion is more expert than anyones elses .Perhaps you have outgrown your gurus, and feel you want to teach them something now?> In your post you fail to give your thoughts to what is the proper and "logical" interpretations. Without giving your interpretation while deriding others is in poor taste.> I hope it was just a lapse in your consciousness.> Sorry for the harshness in my words, but I hope to convey my shock and disappointment in the way you replied.> Best wishes> Lakshmi> > "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr wrote:> Namaste friends,> > In my humble opinion, neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath got it right. The verses of Parasara are quite complex. The translations available are terrible, illogical and do not do justice to Parasara's verses at all.> > One CAN give a consistent and logical interpretation of Parasara's verses. Neither Sri KN Rao's teachings nor Pt Sanjay Rath's teachings are based on a consistent or logical interpretation of Parasara. Both deviate from Parasara's teachings. I am quite convinced.> > At this time, I cannot say anything more on this topic.> > Happy Viajaya Dasami to all of you!> > Best regards,> Narasimha> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana> Spirituality: > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > sohamsa , "suniljohn_2002" <suniljohn_2002@> wrote:> >> > Om Datta Guru> > Dear Michal,> > Michal when we learn a shastra we need to learn by the sanskrit verses & > > quotations of various classics in respect to the variations in opinions> > on a single topic. Unfortunately that is not prevalent in the cities or> > in internet paramparas today. Sanjay uses 8, K N Rao uses 7 - both find> > success in it whereas i find success in 8 as thats what i learnt in> > internet parampara but thats my personal experience (maybe biased) which> > does not demean the experience of K N Rao who has proved since decades> > that he is one of the best predictors in the business than anyone around> > but does that prove his point of being superior in his understanding of> > charakaraka scheme than Sanjays, or vice versa, if one says so that> > would be a small mans way of talking. Today we talk of Sanjay Vs Rao but> > the point is since time immemorial these debates in the karakas have> > existed and one finds it in Jyotish Phala Ratnamala, Sarasangraha and> > various other commentaries - unfortunately todays paramparas cannot even> > quote the verses, the way of learning a shastra is to read the moola> > kitab and also its various commentaries. U can ask any internet Jaimini> > Scholar and they wont even know how many commentaries of Jaimini are> > there considered important. I have asked for this list on various forums> > but Internet Paramparas could not answer/guide.> > > > See this verse from Parasara> > > > Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas> > 1-2. I now detail below Atma Karak etc., obtainable from among the 7> > Grahas, viz. Surya to ´Sani. Some say, that Rahu will become a> > Karak, when there is a state of similarity in terms of longitude between> > (two) Grahas. Yet some say, that the 8 Grahas, including Rahu, will have> > to be considered irrespective of such a state.> > Parasara has shown here that even during his time there were two views,> > he does not demean the other view or writer, not even subtly, a quality> > that u find in good people from good family backgrounds.> > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that> > one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in> > my chart that I can look forward to!> > The other view point which i stated in earlier mail is these sect use 7> > & 8 charakaraka and only when two planets are in same long then 8 comes> > into the picture, this is what a scholar from Jaimini Lineage who can> > trace 14 generations of his parampara use it whereas Sanjay uses 8 and> > Rao 7. Also another student of Vemuri who has written 2000 pages on> > Jaimini astro (finished recently but not yet published) uses the same 7> > & 8. I am sure you know the authority of Vemuri Shastry.> > > > However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that> > can't have children, like buildings and cars.> > > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various commentaries of Jaimini> > which says 7 charakaraka is only for those those who can procreate.> > Honestly i would love to learn and probe deeper.> > > > Even i used to debate with seniors outside internet that 8 charakaraka> > is only for humans it is then they quoted the various commentaries which> > show that both schemes have existed since time immemorial & during those> > times it was paramparic way of learning that is memorising and quoting> > shlokas from various commentaries to know the difference of viewpoint> > and not today when we cant quote.> > > > On nostalgia on same topic i had asked K N Rao in 2004 to write an> > article comparing 7 vs 8 charakaraka on 20 charts for us to understand> > it better but he never did it so far. Maybe some of us can do that or> > already have done that.> > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you> > have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does> > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis?> > > > Right click on degrees in Jhora and select Navamsa Degrees, u will find> > in Ferrantes chart some planets in same degrees then his life story> > falls into picture i guess.> > > > best wishes> > Sunil John> > Mumbai> > > > sohamsa , Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@> wrote:> > >> > > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > >> > > Dear Sunil,> > >> > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that> > one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in> > my chart that I can look forward to! However I was taught that 7> > charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like> > buildings and cars. Parasara says that some Astrolgers use it. Can you> > explain, based on your understanding and experience how one can use> > either?> > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you> > have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does> > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis?> > >> > > Respectfully,> > > Michal> > >> > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@> > > sohamsa > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:28:37 PM> > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch/His> > Time as per birth certificat> > >> > >> > > Om Datta Guru> > > Dear Michal,> > > I had my software tuned to 7 charakaraka scheme as i was using chara> > dasha in previous chart, with that Amk is actually Mars and with 8> > charakaraka it is Rahu. One can use either.> > >> > > Another interesting thing to note about this chart is that there is> > charakaraka replacement in his Navamsa, i don't know if Sanjay uses this> > or has taught his students but there are some traditions in Andhra where> > the tradition of Jaimini is prevalent who use charakaraka replacement in> > divisionals.> > >> > > Navamsa is also the chart of ones religious bent and charakaraka> > replacement happening in Navamsa is significant in his life wherein he> > has undergone a religious transformation.> > >> > > Regards> > > Sunil John> > >> > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..>> > wrote:> > > >> > > > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > > >> > > > Dear Sunil, Patheya,> > > >> > > > Rahu is actually the AmK and is the 5th lord conjoined exalted> > Lagnesha in the 6th house forming a powerful dhimanta yoga inclined very> > much towards the Asuras.> > > >> > > > The 7th house of partnerships is very interesting - and this also> > happens to be the 9th from the AL which protects him.> > > >> > > > Respectfully,> > > > Michal> > > >> > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ...> > > > sohamsa@ .com> > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 6:41:05 PM> > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to> > Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat> > > >> > > >> > > > Om Datta Guru> > > > Dear Patheya,> > > > His time of birth is 6 pm as per his birth certificate.> > > >> > > > the chart looks fine with a 2 min look some yogas seem to match his> > career path though being a mafia don cannot be said with certainty by> > anyone.> > > >> > > > An easy way to look is Saturn in 7H will destroy his career and> > transform his religious ideas and most important destroy his buddhi to> > take up to mafia related work. Mars retro being Amk in 2H of livelihood> > rules what he did> > > >> > > > Jupiter Ketu in 12H also gave him the transformation he needed, i> > have a friend who has Jupiter Ketu in 8H she transformed from> > Christainity to hinduism.> > > >> > > > Others can add> > > >> > > > best wishes> > > > Sunil> > > >> > > > sohamsa@ .com, Patheya Goyal <patheyagoyal@ ....>> > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Lakshmi ji,> > > > >> > > > > His name is Louis Ferrante.> > > > >> > > > > Patheya> > > > >> > > > > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... wrote:> > > > > Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ...> > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch> > > > > sohamsa@ .com> > > > > Sunday, October 5, 2008, 8:52 PM> > > > >> > > > > Hare Rama Krishna Dear Patheya, Its possible someone has already> > worked on his chart, what is his name? All the best Lakshmi> > > > >> > > > > Patheya Goyal patheyagoyal@ ... wrote: Respected> > Gurujans,> > > > >> > > > > I have partial data about a person who has has erstwhile been a> > notorious mafia don belonging to the infamous Gambino family crime> > network. As per the sources I have collected on him, it was by> > > > > mid-90s that law and the FBI caught up with him and he was given> > a 10 years' sentence. But the blurbs on his books suggest that he spent> > about 8 and 1/2 years [one source puts his release time as December> > 2006] in maximum security federal prison during which time he read his> > first book and underwent life transforming moments through certain> > encounters. He took to writing and is now an established author. He also> > spends time with wayward youth populations now mentoring them. I found> > him very articulate, intelligent, and reflective during an interview> > given to the BBC. I thought there might be interesting and certainly> > instructive things to learn from his chart. However, I only have his> > date and place of birth - 13 May 1969, Queens, New York. I was wondering> > if Gurujans will indulge and suggest how we might figure his chart out?> > Looking forward to learning from everyone. Best> > > > > regards,> > > > >> > > > > Patheya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Namaste Sanjay, > > Once again you have come with a loaded statement without giving the> > technicalities. :-) To my knowledge, this is actually the *first* time I have indeed given a "loaded statement" without giving the technicalities. Whether it was the sunrise definition or Moola dasa calculation or drigdasa calculation or Kalachakra dasa calculation or argala of Rahu and Ketu or something else, I always gave the technicalities when I disagreed with you. So it is unfair to say "once again". I will give the technicalities after a few days. I am interested in seeing if anybody else can take a fresh look at the verses of Parasara without being influenced by the existing views and come up with a consistent interpretation that does not ignore some verses of the maharshi in the name of "big picture". Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org sohamsa , "Sanjay Rath" <sjrath wrote:>> Dear Narasimha> > Once again you have come with a loaded statement without giving the> technicalities. I have given a very detailed exposition of Parashara in my> paper on Charakaraka which is available inmy books as well. To say that I> have not translated Parashara is wrong. I may not have translated BPHS in> totality but I have interpreted and translated Parashara in BPHS in various> aspects related to jyotisha including the charakaraka. So, in this regard> your statement is incorrect and should be withdrawn. To see individual> slokas and interpret them without the others is the biggest curse to an> astrologer. You have to get the big picture and for this have to take *all> the shlokas* together and study them. I have done exactly this.> > I do not think anybody else in this world, other than giving parrot like> useless loaded statements, has done any justice to this subject of> charakaraka.> > As regards K N Rao, he can speak up for himself.> > Best Reagrds> > Sanjay Rath> > sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of> Narasimha P.V.R. Rao> 10 October 2008 08:21> sohamsa > Re: 7 & 8 Charakaraka> > > > Namaste Lakshmi and others,> > > > In case the adjectives used in the following sentence caused discomfort, I> can clarify:> > > > "The translations available are terrible, illogical and do not do justice to> Parasara's verses at all."> > > > Neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath published any translations of BPHS.> The adjectives in the above sentence relate to BPHS translations by> Santhanam and others.> > > > Best regards,> Narasimha> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana> Spirituality: > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > > sohamsa , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@> wrote:> >> > Namaste friends,> > > > In my humble opinion, neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath got it right.> The verses of Parasara are quite complex. The translations available are> terrible, illogical and do not do justice to Parasara's verses at all.> > > > One CAN give a consistent and logical interpretation of Parasara's verses.> Neither Sri KN Rao's teachings nor Pt Sanjay Rath's teachings are based on a> consistent or logical interpretation of Parasara. Both deviate from> Parasara's teachings. I am quite convinced.> > > > At this time, I cannot say anything more on this topic.> > > > Happy Viajaya Dasami to all of you!> > > > Best regards,> > Narasimha> > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana> > Spirituality: > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > > > > sohamsa , "suniljohn_2002" <suniljohn_2002@> wrote:> > >> > > Om Datta Guru> > > Dear Michal,> > > Michal when we learn a shastra we need to learn by the sanskrit verses & > > > quotations of various classics in respect to the variations in opinions> > > on a single topic. Unfortunately that is not prevalent in the cities or> > > in internet paramparas today. Sanjay uses 8, K N Rao uses 7 - both find> > > success in it whereas i find success in 8 as thats what i learnt in> > > internet parampara but thats my personal experience (maybe biased) which> > > does not demean the experience of K N Rao who has proved since decades> > > that he is one of the best predictors in the business than anyone around> > > but does that prove his point of being superior in his understanding of> > > charakaraka scheme than Sanjays, or vice versa, if one says so that> > > would be a small mans way of talking. Today we talk of Sanjay Vs Rao but> > > the point is since time immemorial these debates in the karakas have> > > existed and one finds it in Jyotish Phala Ratnamala, Sarasangraha and> > > various other commentaries - unfortunately todays paramparas cannot even> > > quote the verses, the way of learning a shastra is to read the moola> > > kitab and also its various commentaries. U can ask any internet Jaimini> > > Scholar and they wont even know how many commentaries of Jaimini are> > > there considered important. I have asked for this list on various forums> > > but Internet Paramparas could not answer/guide.> > > > > > See this verse from Parasara> > > > > > Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas> > > 1-2. I now detail below Atma Karak etc., obtainable from among the 7> > > Grahas, viz. Surya to ´Sani. Some say, that Rahu will become a> > > Karak, when there is a state of similarity in terms of longitude between> > > (two) Grahas. Yet some say, that the 8 Grahas, including Rahu, will have> > > to be considered irrespective of such a state.> > > Parasara has shown here that even during his time there were two views,> > > he does not demean the other view or writer, not even subtly, a quality> > > that u find in good people from good family backgrounds.> > > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that> > > one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in> > > my chart that I can look forward to!> > > The other view point which i stated in earlier mail is these sect use 7> > > & 8 charakaraka and only when two planets are in same long then 8 comes> > > into the picture, this is what a scholar from Jaimini Lineage who can> > > trace 14 generations of his parampara use it whereas Sanjay uses 8 and> > > Rao 7. Also another student of Vemuri who has written 2000 pages on> > > Jaimini astro (finished recently but not yet published) uses the same 7> > > & 8. I am sure you know the authority of Vemuri Shastry.> > > > > > However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that> > > can't have children, like buildings and cars.> > > > > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various commentaries of Jaimini> > > which says 7 charakaraka is only for those those who can procreate.> > > Honestly i would love to learn and probe deeper.> > > > > > Even i used to debate with seniors outside internet that 8 charakaraka> > > is only for humans it is then they quoted the various commentaries which> > > show that both schemes have existed since time immemorial & during those> > > times it was paramparic way of learning that is memorising and quoting> > > shlokas from various commentaries to know the difference of viewpoint> > > and not today when we cant quote.> > > > > > On nostalgia on same topic i had asked K N Rao in 2004 to write an> > > article comparing 7 vs 8 charakaraka on 20 charts for us to understand> > > it better but he never did it so far. Maybe some of us can do that or> > > already have done that.> > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you> > > have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does> > > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis?> > > > > > Right click on degrees in Jhora and select Navamsa Degrees, u will find> > > in Ferrantes chart some planets in same degrees then his life story> > > falls into picture i guess.> > > > > > best wishes> > > Sunil John> > > Mumbai> > > > > > sohamsa , Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > > >> > > > Dear Sunil,> > > >> > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that> > > one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in> > > my chart that I can look forward to! However I was taught that 7> > > charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like> > > buildings and cars. Parasara says that some Astrolgers use it. Can you> > > explain, based on your understanding and experience how one can use> > > either?> > > > > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you> > > have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does> > > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis?> > > >> > > > Respectfully,> > > > Michal> > > >> > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@> > > > sohamsa > > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:28:37 PM> > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch/His> > > Time as per birth certificat> > > >> > > >> > > > Om Datta Guru> > > > Dear Michal,> > > > I had my software tuned to 7 charakaraka scheme as i was using chara> > > dasha in previous chart, with that Amk is actually Mars and with 8> > > charakaraka it is Rahu. One can use either.> > > >> > > > Another interesting thing to note about this chart is that there is> > > charakaraka replacement in his Navamsa, i don't know if Sanjay uses this> > > or has taught his students but there are some traditions in Andhra where> > > the tradition of Jaimini is prevalent who use charakaraka replacement in> > > divisionals.> > > >> > > > Navamsa is also the chart of ones religious bent and charakaraka> > > replacement happening in Navamsa is significant in his life wherein he> > > has undergone a religious transformation.> > > >> > > > Regards> > > > Sunil John> > > >> > > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..>> > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > > > >> > > > > Dear Sunil, Patheya,> > > > >> > > > > Rahu is actually the AmK and is the 5th lord conjoined exalted> > > Lagnesha in the 6th house forming a powerful dhimanta yoga inclined very> > > much towards the Asuras.> > > > >> > > > > The 7th house of partnerships is very interesting - and this also> > > happens to be the 9th from the AL which protects him.> > > > >> > > > > Respectfully,> > > > > Michal> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ...> > > > > sohamsa@ .com> > > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 6:41:05 PM> > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to> > > Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Om Datta Guru> > > > > Dear Patheya,> > > > > His time of birth is 6 pm as per his birth certificate.> > > > >> > > > > the chart looks fine with a 2 min look some yogas seem to match his> > > career path though being a mafia don cannot be said with certainty by> > > anyone.> > > > >> > > > > An easy way to look is Saturn in 7H will destroy his career and> > > transform his religious ideas and most important destroy his buddhi to> > > take up to mafia related work. Mars retro being Amk in 2H of livelihood> > > rules what he did> > > > >> > > > > Jupiter Ketu in 12H also gave him the transformation he needed, i> > > have a friend who has Jupiter Ketu in 8H she transformed from> > > Christainity to hinduism.> > > > >> > > > > Others can add> > > > >> > > > > best wishes> > > > > Sunil> > > > >> > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Patheya Goyal <patheyagoyal@ ...>> > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Lakshmi ji,> > > > > >> > > > > > His name is Louis Ferrante.> > > > > >> > > > > > Patheya> > > > > >> > > > > > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... wrote:> > > > > > Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ...> > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch> > > > > > sohamsa@ .com> > > > > > Sunday, October 5, 2008, 8:52 PM> > > > > >> > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna Dear Patheya, Its possible someone has already> > > worked on his chart, what is his name? All the best Lakshmi> > > > > >> > > > > > Patheya Goyal patheyagoyal@ ... wrote: Respected> > > Gurujans,> > > > > >> > > > > > I have partial data about a person who has has erstwhile been a> > > notorious mafia don belonging to the infamous Gambino family crime> > > network. As per the sources I have collected on him, it was by> > > > > > mid-90s that law and the FBI caught up with him and he was given> > > a 10 years' sentence. But the blurbs on his books suggest that he spent> > > about 8 and 1/2 years [one source puts his release time as December> > > 2006] in maximum security federal prison during which time he read his> > > first book and underwent life transforming moments through certain> > > encounters. He took to writing and is now an established author. He also> > > spends time with wayward youth populations now mentoring them. I found> > > him very articulate, intelligent, and reflective during an interview> > > given to the BBC. I thought there might be interesting and certainly> > > instructive things to learn from his chart. However, I only have his> > > date and place of birth - 13 May 1969, Queens, New York. I was wondering> > > if Gurujans will indulge and suggest how we might figure his chart out?> > > Looking forward to learning from everyone. Best> > > > > > regards,> > > > > >> > > > > > Patheya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Dear Narasimha For too long do we wait for your *few days* and you always get away with using smart words. That’s OK with Mercury lagna but it still does not clear the air. The sunrise definition is *not mine* but adopted from Varahamihira (definition of Barhaspatya Varsha) ... Dewavrata or someone who is good with Panchanga an give this to you. Definition of Moola Dasha ... once again, I had to teach it way back in 2002 in Ukiah and it has been 6 years and you are still tinkering with it. Tara Dasha ... you have made a complete mess of it in the latest J-Hora 7.02 Ayanamsha ...thank God that I stopped you from coming out with another Narasimha Ayanamsha ..but now you have come to some level of understanding with the Vishnu nabhi which makes the nodes retro all the time ...good. Thats your pace, but that ayanamsha is also wrong. The Kalachakra dasha given in J-Hora is your interpretation and is also completely wrong. Finally, it is worth praying to Jagannath to get the *Big Picture* as He alone with His big round eyes gets the big picture ...and does not leave out any shloka nor does He interpret it so narrowly that leaves wide gaps between the other shlokas. Of course, what you will end up doing, which you have been consistently, is, tinkering with my paper. Lets wait to see your story. I hope I get it in this lifetime. Best Wishes Sanjay P.S. I am still waiting for the JHora to be made opens source so that other programmers can use it for development of Mac version and other development. When do you think this is likely to happen? 2007 is long gone and we are well into the end of 2008. Let go Narasimha ...let go of it. Is it so difficult? If you have to give something for Jagannath, give it totally and completely ...make the software Open Source! sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of Narasimha P.V.R. Rao 10 October 2008 09:24 sohamsa Re: 7 & 8 Charakaraka Namaste Sanjay, > > Once again you have come with a loaded statement without giving the > > technicalities. :-) To my knowledge, this is actually the *first* time I have indeed given a " loaded statement " without giving the technicalities. Whether it was the sunrise definition or Moola dasa calculation or drigdasa calculation or Kalachakra dasa calculation or argala of Rahu and Ketu or something else, I always gave the technicalities when I disagreed with you. So it is unfair to say " once again " . I will give the technicalities after a few days. I am interested in seeing if anybody else can take a fresh look at the verses of Parasara without being influenced by the existing views and come up with a consistent interpretation that does not ignore some verses of the maharshi in the name of " big picture " . Best regards, Narasimha Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana Spirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org --- In sohamsa , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath wrote: > > Dear Narasimha > > Once again you have come with a loaded statement without giving the > technicalities. I have given a very detailed exposition of Parashara in my > paper on Charakaraka which is available inmy books as well. To say that I > have not translated Parashara is wrong. I may not have translated BPHS in > totality but I have interpreted and translated Parashara in BPHS in various > aspects related to jyotisha including the charakaraka. So, in this regard > your statement is incorrect and should be withdrawn. To see individual > slokas and interpret them without the others is the biggest curse to an > astrologer. You have to get the big picture and for this have to take *all > the shlokas* together and study them. I have done exactly this. > > I do not think anybody else in this world, other than giving parrot like > useless loaded statements, has done any justice to this subject of > charakaraka. > > As regards K N Rao, he can speak up for himself. > > Best Reagrds > > Sanjay Rath > > sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao > 10 October 2008 08:21 > sohamsa > Re: 7 & 8 Charakaraka > > > > Namaste Lakshmi and others, > > > > In case the adjectives used in the following sentence caused discomfort, I > can clarify: > > > > " The translations available are terrible, illogical and do not do justice to > Parasara's verses at all. " > > > > Neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath published any translations of BPHS. > The adjectives in the above sentence relate to BPHS translations by > Santhanam and others. > > > > Best regards, > Narasimha > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana > Spirituality: > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > > sohamsa , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@> wrote: > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > In my humble opinion, neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath got it right. > The verses of Parasara are quite complex. The translations available are > terrible, illogical and do not do justice to Parasara's verses at all. > > > > One CAN give a consistent and logical interpretation of Parasara's verses. > Neither Sri KN Rao's teachings nor Pt Sanjay Rath's teachings are based on a > consistent or logical interpretation of Parasara. Both deviate from > Parasara's teachings. I am quite convinced. > > > > At this time, I cannot say anything more on this topic. > > > > Happy Viajaya Dasami to all of you! > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana > > Spirituality: > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > > > > sohamsa , " suniljohn_2002 " <suniljohn_2002@> wrote: > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > Dear Michal, > > > Michal when we learn a shastra we need to learn by the sanskrit verses & > > > quotations of various classics in respect to the variations in opinions > > > on a single topic. Unfortunately that is not prevalent in the cities or > > > in internet paramparas today. Sanjay uses 8, K N Rao uses 7 - both find > > > success in it whereas i find success in 8 as thats what i learnt in > > > internet parampara but thats my personal experience (maybe biased) which > > > does not demean the experience of K N Rao who has proved since decades > > > that he is one of the best predictors in the business than anyone around > > > but does that prove his point of being superior in his understanding of > > > charakaraka scheme than Sanjays, or vice versa, if one says so that > > > would be a small mans way of talking. Today we talk of Sanjay Vs Rao but > > > the point is since time immemorial these debates in the karakas have > > > existed and one finds it in Jyotish Phala Ratnamala, Sarasangraha and > > > various other commentaries - unfortunately todays paramparas cannot even > > > quote the verses, the way of learning a shastra is to read the moola > > > kitab and also its various commentaries. U can ask any internet Jaimini > > > Scholar and they wont even know how many commentaries of Jaimini are > > > there considered important. I have asked for this list on various forums > > > but Internet Paramparas could not answer/guide. > > > > > > See this verse from Parasara > > > > > > Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas > > > 1-2. I now detail below Atma Karak etc., obtainable from among the 7 > > > Grahas, viz. Surya to ´Sani. Some say, that Rahu will become a > > > Karak, when there is a state of similarity in terms of longitude between > > > (two) Grahas. Yet some say, that the 8 Grahas, including Rahu, will have > > > to be considered irrespective of such a state. > > > Parasara has shown here that even during his time there were two views, > > > he does not demean the other view or writer, not even subtly, a quality > > > that u find in good people from good family backgrounds. > > > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that > > > one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in > > > my chart that I can look forward to! > > > The other view point which i stated in earlier mail is these sect use 7 > > > & 8 charakaraka and only when two planets are in same long then 8 comes > > > into the picture, this is what a scholar from Jaimini Lineage who can > > > trace 14 generations of his parampara use it whereas Sanjay uses 8 and > > > Rao 7. Also another student of Vemuri who has written 2000 pages on > > > Jaimini astro (finished recently but not yet published) uses the same 7 > > > & 8. I am sure you know the authority of Vemuri Shastry. > > > > > > However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that > > > can't have children, like buildings and cars. > > > > > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various commentaries of Jaimini > > > which says 7 charakaraka is only for those those who can procreate. > > > Honestly i would love to learn and probe deeper. > > > > > > Even i used to debate with seniors outside internet that 8 charakaraka > > > is only for humans it is then they quoted the various commentaries which > > > show that both schemes have existed since time immemorial & during those > > > times it was paramparic way of learning that is memorising and quoting > > > shlokas from various commentaries to know the difference of viewpoint > > > and not today when we cant quote. > > > > > > On nostalgia on same topic i had asked K N Rao in 2004 to write an > > > article comparing 7 vs 8 charakaraka on 20 charts for us to understand > > > it better but he never did it so far. Maybe some of us can do that or > > > already have done that. > > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you > > > have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does > > > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis? > > > > > > Right click on degrees in Jhora and select Navamsa Degrees, u will find > > > in Ferrantes chart some planets in same degrees then his life story > > > falls into picture i guess. > > > > > > best wishes > > > Sunil John > > > Mumbai > > > > > > sohamsa , Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil, > > > > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that > > > one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in > > > my chart that I can look forward to! However I was taught that 7 > > > charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like > > > buildings and cars. Parasara says that some Astrolgers use it. Can you > > > explain, based on your understanding and experience how one can use > > > either? > > > > > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you > > > have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does > > > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis? > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ > > > > sohamsa > > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:28:37 PM > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch/His > > > Time as per birth certificat > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > Dear Michal, > > > > I had my software tuned to 7 charakaraka scheme as i was using chara > > > dasha in previous chart, with that Amk is actually Mars and with 8 > > > charakaraka it is Rahu. One can use either. > > > > > > > > Another interesting thing to note about this chart is that there is > > > charakaraka replacement in his Navamsa, i don't know if Sanjay uses this > > > or has taught his students but there are some traditions in Andhra where > > > the tradition of Jaimini is prevalent who use charakaraka replacement in > > > divisionals. > > > > > > > > Navamsa is also the chart of ones religious bent and charakaraka > > > replacement happening in Navamsa is significant in his life wherein he > > > has undergone a religious transformation. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Sunil John > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ ..com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil, Patheya, > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is actually the AmK and is the 5th lord conjoined exalted > > > Lagnesha in the 6th house forming a powerful dhimanta yoga inclined very > > > much towards the Asuras. > > > > > > > > > > The 7th house of partnerships is very interesting - and this also > > > happens to be the 9th from the AL which protects him. > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ... > > > > > sohamsa@ ..com > > > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 6:41:05 PM > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to > > > Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > > Dear Patheya, > > > > > His time of birth is 6 pm as per his birth certificate. > > > > > > > > > > the chart looks fine with a 2 min look some yogas seem to match his > > > career path though being a mafia don cannot be said with certainty by > > > anyone. > > > > > > > > > > An easy way to look is Saturn in 7H will destroy his career and > > > transform his religious ideas and most important destroy his buddhi to > > > take up to mafia related work. Mars retro being Amk in 2H of livelihood > > > rules what he did > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter Ketu in 12H also gave him the transformation he needed, i > > > have a friend who has Jupiter Ketu in 8H she transformed from > > > Christainity to hinduism. > > > > > > > > > > Others can add > > > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > > Sunil > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ ..com, Patheya Goyal <patheyagoyal@ ...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > His name is Louis Ferrante. > > > > > > > > > > > > Patheya > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ .... wrote: > > > > > > Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... > > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch > > > > > > sohamsa@ ..com > > > > > > Sunday, October 5, 2008, 8:52 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna Dear Patheya, Its possible someone has already > > > worked on his chart, what is his name? All the best Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > Patheya Goyal patheyagoyal@ ... wrote: Respected > > > Gurujans, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have partial data about a person who has has erstwhile been a > > > notorious mafia don belonging to the infamous Gambino family crime > > > network. As per the sources I have collected on him, it was by > > > > > > mid-90s that law and the FBI caught up with him and he was given > > > a 10 years' sentence. But the blurbs on his books suggest that he spent > > > about 8 and 1/2 years [one source puts his release time as December > > > 2006] in maximum security federal prison during which time he read his > > > first book and underwent life transforming moments through certain > > > encounters. He took to writing and is now an established author. He also > > > spends time with wayward youth populations now mentoring them. I found > > > him very articulate, intelligent, and reflective during an interview > > > given to the BBC. I thought there might be interesting and certainly > > > instructive things to learn from his chart. However, I only have his > > > date and place of birth - 13 May 1969, Queens, New York. I was wondering > > > if Gurujans will indulge and suggest how we might figure his chart out? > > > Looking forward to learning from everyone. Best > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Patheya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 kleem namah narasimhaaya Dear Narasimhaji , Namaskar It would be quite good to add Sanjayji settings in JHora to allow people choose whatever settings they put faith in. What do you think ? Regards, Rafal Gendarz / SJC Teacher www: http://rohinaa.com / email: rafal Sanjay Rath pisze: Dear Narasimha For too long do we wait for your *few days* and you always get away with using smart words. That’s OK with Mercury lagna but it still does not clear the air. The sunrise definition is *not mine* but adopted from Varahamihira (definition of Barhaspatya Varsha) ... Dewavrata or someone who is good with Panchanga an give this to you. Definition of Moola Dasha ... once again, I had to teach it way back in 2002 in Ukiah and it has been 6 years and you are still tinkering with it. Tara Dasha ... you have made a complete mess of it in the latest J-Hora 7.02 Ayanamsha ...thank God that I stopped you from coming out with another Narasimha Ayanamsha ..but now you have come to some level of understanding with the Vishnu nabhi which makes the nodes retro all the time ...good. Thats your pace, but that ayanamsha is also wrong. The Kalachakra dasha given in J-Hora is your interpretation and is also completely wrong. Finally, it is worth praying to Jagannath to get the *Big Picture* as He alone with His big round eyes gets the big picture ....and does not leave out any shloka nor does He interpret it so narrowly that leaves wide gaps between the other shlokas. Of course, what you will end up doing, which you have been consistently, is, tinkering with my paper. Lets wait to see your story. I hope I get it in this lifetime. Best Wishes Sanjay P.S. I am still waiting for the JHora to be made opens source so that other programmers can use it for development of Mac version and other development. When do you think this is likely to happen? 2007 is long gone and we are well into the end of 2008. Let go Narasimha ...let go of it. Is it so difficult? If you have to give something for Jagannath, give it totally and completely ...make the software Open Source! sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of Narasimha P.V.R. Rao 10 October 2008 09:24 sohamsa@ .com Re: 7 & 8 Charakaraka Namaste Sanjay, > > Once again you have come with a loaded statement without giving the > > technicalities. :-) To my knowledge, this is actually the *first* time I have indeed given a "loaded statement" without giving the technicalities. Whether it was the sunrise definition or Moola dasa calculation or drigdasa calculation or Kalachakra dasa calculation or argala of Rahu and Ketu or something else, I always gave the technicalities when I disagreed with you. So it is unfair to say "once again". I will give the technicalities after a few days. I am interested in seeing if anybody else can take a fresh look at the verses of Parasara without being influenced by the existing views and come up with a consistent interpretation that does not ignore some verses of the maharshi in the name of "big picture". Best regards, Narasimha ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --- In sohamsa@ ..com, "Sanjay Rath" <sjrath wrote: > > Dear Narasimha > > Once again you have come with a loaded statement without giving the > technicalities. I have given a very detailed exposition of Parashara in my > paper on Charakaraka which is available inmy books as well. To say that I > have not translated Parashara is wrong. I may not have translated BPHS in > totality but I have interpreted and translated Parashara in BPHS in various > aspects related to jyotisha including the charakaraka. So, in this regard > your statement is incorrect and should be withdrawn. To see individual > slokas and interpret them without the others is the biggest curse to an > astrologer. You have to get the big picture and for this have to take *all > the shlokas* together and study them. I have done exactly this. > > I do not think anybody else in this world, other than giving parrot like > useless loaded statements, has done any justice to this subject of > charakaraka. > > As regards K N Rao, he can speak up for himself. > > Best Reagrds > > Sanjay Rath > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao > 10 October 2008 08:21 > sohamsa@ .com > Re: 7 & 8 Charakaraka > > > > Namaste Lakshmi and others, > > > > In case the adjectives used in the following sentence caused discomfort, I > can clarify: > > > > "The translations available are terrible, illogical and do not do justice to > Parasara's verses at all." > > > > Neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath published any translations of BPHS. > The adjectives in the above sentence relate to BPHS translations by > Santhanam and others. > > > > Best regards, > Narasimha > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > sohamsa@ .com, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@> wrote: > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > In my humble opinion, neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath got it right. > The verses of Parasara are quite complex. The translations available are > terrible, illogical and do not do justice to Parasara's verses at all. > > > > One CAN give a consistent and logical interpretation of Parasara's verses. > Neither Sri KN Rao's teachings nor Pt Sanjay Rath's teachings are based on a > consistent or logical interpretation of Parasara. Both deviate from > Parasara's teachings. I am quite convinced. > > > > At this time, I cannot say anything more on this topic. > > > > Happy Viajaya Dasami to all of you! > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > > sohamsa@ .com, "suniljohn_2002" <suniljohn_2002@> wrote: > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > Dear Michal, > > > Michal when we learn a shastra we need to learn by the sanskrit verses & > > > quotations of various classics in respect to the variations in opinions > > > on a single topic. Unfortunately that is not prevalent in the cities or > > > in internet paramparas today. Sanjay uses 8, K N Rao uses 7 - both find > > > success in it whereas i find success in 8 as thats what i learnt in > > > internet parampara but thats my personal experience (maybe biased) which > > > does not demean the experience of K N Rao who has proved since decades > > > that he is one of the best predictors in the business than anyone around > > > but does that prove his point of being superior in his understanding of > > > charakaraka scheme than Sanjays, or vice versa, if one says so that > > > would be a small mans way of talking. Today we talk of Sanjay Vs Rao but > > > the point is since time immemorial these debates in the karakas have > > > existed and one finds it in Jyotish Phala Ratnamala, Sarasangraha and > > > various other commentaries - unfortunately todays paramparas cannot even > > > quote the verses, the way of learning a shastra is to read the moola > > > kitab and also its various commentaries. U can ask any internet Jaimini > > > Scholar and they wont even know how many commentaries of Jaimini are > > > there considered important. I have asked for this list on various forums > > > but Internet Paramparas could not answer/guide. > > > > > > See this verse from Parasara > > > > > > Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas > > > 1-2. I now detail below Atma Karak etc., obtainable from among the 7 > > > Grahas, viz. Surya to ´Sani. Some say, that Rahu will become a > > > Karak, when there is a state of similarity in terms of longitude between > > > (two) Grahas. Yet some say, that the 8 Grahas, including Rahu, will have > > > to be considered irrespective of such a state. > > > Parasara has shown here that even during his time there were two views, > > > he does not demean the other view or writer, not even subtly, a quality > > > that u find in good people from good family backgrounds. > > > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that > > > one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in > > > my chart that I can look forward to! > > > The other view point which i stated in earlier mail is these sect use 7 > > > & 8 charakaraka and only when two planets are in same long then 8 comes > > > into the picture, this is what a scholar from Jaimini Lineage who can > > > trace 14 generations of his parampara use it whereas Sanjay uses 8 and > > > Rao 7. Also another student of Vemuri who has written 2000 pages on > > > Jaimini astro (finished recently but not yet published) uses the same 7 > > > & 8. I am sure you know the authority of Vemuri Shastry. > > > > > > However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that > > > can't have children, like buildings and cars. > > > > > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various commentaries of Jaimini > > > which says 7 charakaraka is only for those those who can procreate. > > > Honestly i would love to learn and probe deeper. > > > > > > Even i used to debate with seniors outside internet that 8 charakaraka > > > is only for humans it is then they quoted the various commentaries which > > > show that both schemes have existed since time immemorial & during those > > > times it was paramparic way of learning that is memorising and quoting > > > shlokas from various commentaries to know the difference of viewpoint > > > and not today when we cant quote. > > > > > > On nostalgia on same topic i had asked K N Rao in 2004 to write an > > > article comparing 7 vs 8 charakaraka on 20 charts for us to understand > > > it better but he never did it so far. Maybe some of us can do that or > > > already have done that. > > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you > > > have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does > > > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis? > > > > > > Right click on degrees in Jhora and select Navamsa Degrees, u will find > > > in Ferrantes chart some planets in same degrees then his life story > > > falls into picture i guess. > > > > > > best wishes > > > Sunil John > > > Mumbai > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil, > > > > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that > > > one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in > > > my chart that I can look forward to! However I was taught that 7 > > > charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like > > > buildings and cars. Parasara says that some Astrolgers use it. Can you > > > explain, based on your understanding and experience how one can use > > > either? > > > > > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if you > > > have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante does > > > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis? > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ > > > > sohamsa@ .com > > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:28:37 PM > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch/His > > > Time as per birth certificat > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > Dear Michal, > > > > I had my software tuned to 7 charakaraka scheme as i was using chara > > > dasha in previous chart, with that Amk is actually Mars and with 8 > > > charakaraka it is Rahu. One can use either. > > > > > > > > Another interesting thing to note about this chart is that there is > > > charakaraka replacement in his Navamsa, i don't know if Sanjay uses this > > > or has taught his students but there are some traditions in Andhra where > > > the tradition of Jaimini is prevalent who use charakaraka replacement in > > > divisionals. > > > > > > > > Navamsa is also the chart of ones religious bent and charakaraka > > > replacement happening in Navamsa is significant in his life wherein he > > > has undergone a religious transformation. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Sunil John > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ ..com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil, Patheya, > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is actually the AmK and is the 5th lord conjoined exalted > > > Lagnesha in the 6th house forming a powerful dhimanta yoga inclined very > > > much towards the Asuras. > > > > > > > > > > The 7th house of partnerships is very interesting - and this also > > > happens to be the 9th from the AL which protects him. > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ... > > > > > sohamsa@ ..com > > > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 6:41:05 PM > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to > > > Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > > Dear Patheya, > > > > > His time of birth is 6 pm as per his birth certificate. > > > > > > > > > > the chart looks fine with a 2 min look some yogas seem to match his > > > career path though being a mafia don cannot be said with certainty by > > > anyone. > > > > > > > > > > An easy way to look is Saturn in 7H will destroy his career and > > > transform his religious ideas and most important destroy his buddhi to > > > take up to mafia related work. Mars retro being Amk in 2H of livelihood > > > rules what he did > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter Ketu in 12H also gave him the transformation he needed, i > > > have a friend who has Jupiter Ketu in 8H she transformed from > > > Christainity to hinduism. > > > > > > > > > > Others can add > > > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > > Sunil > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ ..com, Patheya Goyal <patheyagoyal@ ...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > His name is Louis Ferrante. > > > > > > > > > > > > Patheya > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ .... wrote: > > > > > > Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... > > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to Mensch > > > > > > sohamsa@ ..com > > > > > > Sunday, October 5, 2008, 8:52 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna Dear Patheya, Its possible someone has already > > > worked on his chart, what is his name? All the best Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > Patheya Goyal patheyagoyal@ ... wrote: Respected > > > Gurujans, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have partial data about a person who has has erstwhile been a > > > notorious mafia don belonging to the infamous Gambino family crime > > > network. As per the sources I have collected on him, it was by > > > > > > mid-90s that law and the FBI caught up with him and he was given > > > a 10 years' sentence. But the blurbs on his books suggest that he spent > > > about 8 and 1/2 years [one source puts his release time as December > > > 2006] in maximum security federal prison during which time he read his > > > first book and underwent life transforming moments through certain > > > encounters. He took to writing and is now an established author. He also > > > spends time with wayward youth populations now mentoring them. I found > > > him very articulate, intelligent, and reflective during an interview > > > given to the BBC. I thought there might be interesting and certainly > > > instructive things to learn from his chart. However, I only have his > > > date and place of birth - 13 May 1969, Queens, New York. I was wondering > > > if Gurujans will indulge and suggest how we might figure his chart out? > > > Looking forward to learning from everyone. Best > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Patheya Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1717 - Release 2008-10-09 16:56 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Namaste Rafal, Of course, the settings Sanjay ji prefers w.r.t. sunrise, Moola dasa calculation etc are all there in Jagannatha Hora. I may add new options after studying Parasara (e.g. drigdasa) or others (e.g. Raghavacharya's kalachakra dasa), but I do not get rid of Sanjay ji's versions. The thing with Tara dasa is that Sanjay ji said contradictory things to me at different times and I have coded his *latest* teaching to me. For the record, Tara dasa is not one of the dasas where I hold an independent view. I have no problem changing it based on Sanjay ji's latest view, if I can be educated on it. Whatever is there in software is what he communicated last to me. Best regards, Narasimha Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana Spirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org ------------------------------ sohamsa , Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote: > > *kleem namah narasimhaaya* > Dear Narasimhaji , Namaskar > > It would be quite good to add Sanjayji settings in JHora to allow people > choose whatever settings they put faith in. What do you think ? > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz / SJC Teacher > www: http://rohinaa.com / email: rafal > > Sanjay Rath pisze: > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > For too long do we wait for your **few days** and you always get away > > with using smart words. That's OK with Mercury lagna but it still does > > not clear the air. > > > > The sunrise definition is **not mine** but adopted from Varahamihira > > (definition of Barhaspatya Varsha) ... Dewavrata or someone who is > > good with Panchanga an give this to you. > > > > Definition of Moola Dasha ... once again, I had to teach it way back > > in 2002 in Ukiah and it has been 6 years and you are still tinkering > > with it. > > > > Tara Dasha ... you have made a complete mess of it in the latest > > J-Hora 7.02 > > > > Ayanamsha ...thank God that I stopped you from coming out with another > > Narasimha Ayanamsha ..but now you have come to some level of > > understanding with the Vishnu nabhi which makes the nodes retro all > > the time ...good. Thats your pace, but that ayanamsha is also wrong. > > > > The Kalachakra dasha given in J-Hora is your interpretation and is > > also completely wrong. > > > > Finally, it is worth praying to Jagannath to get the **Big Picture** > > as He alone with His big round eyes gets the big picture ...and does > > not leave out any shloka nor does He interpret it so narrowly that > > leaves wide gaps between the other shlokas. Of course, what you will > > end up doing, which you have been consistently, is, tinkering with my > > paper. Lets wait to see your story. I hope I get it in this lifetime. > > > > > > > > Best Wishes > > > > Sanjay > > > > P.S. I am still waiting for the JHora to be made opens source so that > > other programmers can use it for development of Mac version and other > > development. When do you think this is likely to happen? 2007 is long > > gone and we are well into the end of 2008. Let go Narasimha ...let go > > of it. Is it so difficult? If you have to give something for > > Jagannath, give it totally and completely ...make the software Open > > Source! > > > > > > > > > > > > ** sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] > > *On Behalf Of *Narasimha P.V.R. Rao > > *Sent:* 10 October 2008 09:24 > > *To:* sohamsa@ .com > > *Subject:* Re: 7 & 8 Charakaraka > > > > > > > > Namaste Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > > Once again you have come with a loaded statement without giving the > > > > technicalities. > > > > > > > > :-) To my knowledge, this is actually the *first* time I have indeed > > given a " loaded statement " without giving the technicalities. > > > > > > > > Whether it was the sunrise definition or Moola dasa calculation or > > drigdasa calculation or Kalachakra dasa calculation or argala of Rahu > > and Ketu or something else, I always gave the technicalities when I > > disagreed with you. So it is unfair to say " once again " . > > > > > > > > I will give the technicalities after a few days. I am interested in > > seeing if anybody else can take a fresh look at the verses of Parasara > > without being influenced by the existing views and come up with a > > consistent interpretation that does not ignore some verses of the > > maharshi in the name of " big picture " . > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana> > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > <> > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa >, > > " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > Once again you have come with a loaded statement without giving the > > > technicalities. I have given a very detailed exposition of Parashara > > in my > > > paper on Charakaraka which is available inmy books as well. To say that I > > > have not translated Parashara is wrong. I may not have translated BPHS in > > > totality but I have interpreted and translated Parashara in BPHS in > > various > > > aspects related to jyotisha including the charakaraka. So, in this regard > > > your statement is incorrect and should be withdrawn. To see individual > > > slokas and interpret them without the others is the biggest curse to an > > > astrologer. You have to get the big picture and for this have to take > > *all > > > the shlokas* together and study them. I have done exactly this. > > > > > > I do not think anybody else in this world, other than giving parrot like > > > useless loaded statements, has done any justice to this subject of > > > charakaraka. > > > > > > As regards K N Rao, he can speak up for himself. > > > > > > Best Reagrds > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa > > > [sohamsa] On Behalf Of > > > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao > > > 10 October 2008 08:21 > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa > > > > Re: 7 & 8 Charakaraka > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Lakshmi and others, > > > > > > > > > > > > In case the adjectives used in the following sentence caused > > discomfort, I > > > can clarify: > > > > > > > > > > > > " The translations available are terrible, illogical and do not do > > justice to > > > Parasara's verses at all. " > > > > > > > > > > > > Neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath published any translations of BPHS. > > > The adjectives in the above sentence relate to BPHS translations by > > > Santhanam and others. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana> > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > <> > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa >, > > " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > In my humble opinion, neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath got it > > right. > > > The verses of Parasara are quite complex. The translations available are > > > terrible, illogical and do not do justice to Parasara's verses at all. > > > > > > > > One CAN give a consistent and logical interpretation of Parasara's > > verses. > > > Neither Sri KN Rao's teachings nor Pt Sanjay Rath's teachings are > > based on a > > > consistent or logical interpretation of Parasara. Both deviate from > > > Parasara's teachings. I am quite convinced. > > > > > > > > At this time, I cannot say anything more on this topic. > > > > > > > > Happy Viajaya Dasami to all of you! > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > --------- > > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> > > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ > > tarpana <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana> > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > <> > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > --------- > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa >, > > " suniljohn_2002 " <suniljohn_2002@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > > Dear Michal, > > > > > Michal when we learn a shastra we need to learn by the sanskrit > > verses & > > > > > quotations of various classics in respect to the variations in > > opinions > > > > > on a single topic. Unfortunately that is not prevalent in the > > cities or > > > > > in internet paramparas today. Sanjay uses 8, K N Rao uses 7 - > > both find > > > > > success in it whereas i find success in 8 as thats what i learnt in > > > > > internet parampara but thats my personal experience (maybe > > biased) which > > > > > does not demean the experience of K N Rao who has proved since > > decades > > > > > that he is one of the best predictors in the business than anyone > > around > > > > > but does that prove his point of being superior in his > > understanding of > > > > > charakaraka scheme than Sanjays, or vice versa, if one says so that > > > > > would be a small mans way of talking. Today we talk of Sanjay Vs > > Rao but > > > > > the point is since time immemorial these debates in the karakas have > > > > > existed and one finds it in Jyotish Phala Ratnamala, Sarasangraha and > > > > > various other commentaries - unfortunately todays paramparas > > cannot even > > > > > quote the verses, the way of learning a shastra is to read the moola > > > > > kitab and also its various commentaries. U can ask any internet > > Jaimini > > > > > Scholar and they wont even know how many commentaries of Jaimini are > > > > > there considered important. I have asked for this list on various > > forums > > > > > but Internet Paramparas could not answer/guide. > > > > > > > > > > See this verse from Parasara > > > > > > > > > > Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas > > > > > 1-2. I now detail below Atma Karak etc., obtainable from among the 7 > > > > > Grahas, viz. Surya to ´Sani. Some say, that Rahu will become a > > > > > Karak, when there is a state of similarity in terms of longitude > > between > > > > > (two) Grahas. Yet some say, that the 8 Grahas, including Rahu, > > will have > > > > > to be considered irrespective of such a state. > > > > > Parasara has shown here that even during his time there were two > > views, > > > > > he does not demean the other view or writer, not even subtly, a > > quality > > > > > that u find in good people from good family backgrounds. > > > > > > > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said > > that > > > > > one can use either. That would be great, then I would have > > rajyogas in > > > > > my chart that I can look forward to! > > > > > The other view point which i stated in earlier mail is these sect > > use 7 > > > > > & 8 charakaraka and only when two planets are in same long then 8 > > comes > > > > > into the picture, this is what a scholar from Jaimini Lineage who can > > > > > trace 14 generations of his parampara use it whereas Sanjay uses > > 8 and > > > > > Rao 7. Also another student of Vemuri who has written 2000 pages on > > > > > Jaimini astro (finished recently but not yet published) uses the > > same 7 > > > > > & 8. I am sure you know the authority of Vemuri Shastry. > > > > > > > > > > However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that > > > > > can't have children, like buildings and cars. > > > > > > > > > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various commentaries of > > Jaimini > > > > > which says 7 charakaraka is only for those those who can procreate. > > > > > Honestly i would love to learn and probe deeper. > > > > > > > > > > Even i used to debate with seniors outside internet that 8 > > charakaraka > > > > > is only for humans it is then they quoted the various > > commentaries which > > > > > show that both schemes have existed since time immemorial & > > during those > > > > > times it was paramparic way of learning that is memorising and > > quoting > > > > > shlokas from various commentaries to know the difference of viewpoint > > > > > and not today when we cant quote. > > > > > > > > > > On nostalgia on same topic i had asked K N Rao in 2004 to write an > > > > > article comparing 7 vs 8 charakaraka on 20 charts for us to > > understand > > > > > it better but he never did it so far. Maybe some of us can do that or > > > > > already have done that. > > > > > > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so > > if you > > > > > have time could you mention something about how it works. > > Ferrante does > > > > > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis? > > > > > > > > > > Right click on degrees in Jhora and select Navamsa Degrees, u > > will find > > > > > in Ferrantes chart some planets in same degrees then his life story > > > > > falls into picture i guess. > > > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > > Sunil John > > > > > Mumbai > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa >, > > Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil, > > > > > > > > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said > > that > > > > > one can use either. That would be great, then I would have > > rajyogas in > > > > > my chart that I can look forward to! However I was taught that 7 > > > > > charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like > > > > > buildings and cars. Parasara says that some Astrolgers use it. > > Can you > > > > > explain, based on your understanding and experience how one can use > > > > > either? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so > > if you > > > > > have time could you mention something about how it works. > > Ferrante does > > > > > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis? > > > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa > > > > > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:28:37 PM > > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to > > Mensch/His > > > > > Time as per birth certificat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > > > Dear Michal, > > > > > > I had my software tuned to 7 charakaraka scheme as i was using > > chara > > > > > dasha in previous chart, with that Amk is actually Mars and with 8 > > > > > charakaraka it is Rahu. One can use either. > > > > > > > > > > > > Another interesting thing to note about this chart is that there is > > > > > charakaraka replacement in his Navamsa, i don't know if Sanjay > > uses this > > > > > or has taught his students but there are some traditions in > > Andhra where > > > > > the tradition of Jaimini is prevalent who use charakaraka > > replacement in > > > > > divisionals. > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsa is also the chart of ones religious bent and charakaraka > > > > > replacement happening in Navamsa is significant in his life > > wherein he > > > > > has undergone a religious transformation. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Sunil John > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ <sohamsa@> .com, > > Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil, Patheya, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is actually the AmK and is the 5th lord conjoined exalted > > > > > Lagnesha in the 6th house forming a powerful dhimanta yoga > > inclined very > > > > > much towards the Asuras. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The 7th house of partnerships is very interesting - and this also > > > > > happens to be the 9th from the AL which protects him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ... > > > > > > > sohamsa@ <sohamsa@> .com > > > > > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 6:41:05 PM > > > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to > > > > > Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > > > > Dear Patheya, > > > > > > > His time of birth is 6 pm as per his birth certificate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the chart looks fine with a 2 min look some yogas seem to > > match his > > > > > career path though being a mafia don cannot be said with certainty by > > > > > anyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > An easy way to look is Saturn in 7H will destroy his career and > > > > > transform his religious ideas and most important destroy his > > buddhi to > > > > > take up to mafia related work. Mars retro being Amk in 2H of > > livelihood > > > > > rules what he did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter Ketu in 12H also gave him the transformation he needed, i > > > > > have a friend who has Jupiter Ketu in 8H she transformed from > > > > > Christainity to hinduism. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Others can add > > > > > > > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > > > > Sunil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ <sohamsa@> ..com, > > Patheya Goyal <patheyagoyal@ ...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His name is Louis Ferrante. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Patheya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... wrote: > > > > > > > > Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... > > > > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to > > Mensch > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ <sohamsa@> .com > > > > > > > > Sunday, October 5, 2008, 8:52 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna Dear Patheya, Its possible someone has > > already > > > > > worked on his chart, what is his name? All the best Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Patheya Goyal patheyagoyal@ ... wrote: Respected > > > > > Gurujans, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have partial data about a person who has has erstwhile been a > > > > > notorious mafia don belonging to the infamous Gambino family crime > > > > > network. As per the sources I have collected on him, it was by > > > > > > > > mid-90s that law and the FBI caught up with him and he was > > given > > > > > a 10 years' sentence. But the blurbs on his books suggest that he > > spent > > > > > about 8 and 1/2 years [one source puts his release time as December > > > > > 2006] in maximum security federal prison during which time he > > read his > > > > > first book and underwent life transforming moments through certain > > > > > encounters. He took to writing and is now an established author. > > He also > > > > > spends time with wayward youth populations now mentoring them. I > > found > > > > > him very articulate, intelligent, and reflective during an interview > > > > > given to the BBC. I thought there might be interesting and certainly > > > > > instructive things to learn from his chart. However, I only have his > > > > > date and place of birth - 13 May 1969, Queens, New York. I was > > wondering > > > > > if Gurujans will indulge and suggest how we might figure his > > chart out? > > > > > Looking forward to learning from everyone. Best > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Patheya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 kleem namah narasimhaaya Dear Narasimhaji , Namaskar Yes, but Vistiji said me that Tara and Kalachakra dasas which he was taught by Sanjayji are not there, so therefore my querry/request. Regards, Rafal Gendarz / SJC Teacher www: http://rohinaa.com / email: rafal Narasimha Rao pisze: Namaste Rafal, Of course, the settings Sanjay ji prefers w.r.t. sunrise, Moola dasa calculation etc are all there in Jagannatha Hora. I may add new options after studying Parasara (e.g. drigdasa) or others (e.g. Raghavacharya's kalachakra dasa), but I do not get rid of Sanjay ji's versions. The thing with Tara dasa is that Sanjay ji said contradictory things to me at different times and I have coded his *latest* teaching to me. For the record, Tara dasa is not one of the dasas where I hold an independent view. I have no problem changing it based on Sanjay ji's latest view, if I can be educated on it. Whatever is there in software is what he communicated last to me. Best regards, Narasimha ------------------------- Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana Spirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org ------------------------- sohamsa , Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote: > > *kleem namah narasimhaaya* > Dear Narasimhaji , Namaskar > > It would be quite good to add Sanjayji settings in JHora to allow people > choose whatever settings they put faith in. What do you think ? > > Regards, > Rafal Gendarz / SJC Teacher > www: http://rohinaa.com / email: rafal > > Sanjay Rath pisze: > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > For too long do we wait for your **few days** and you always get away > > with using smart words. That's OK with Mercury lagna but it still does > > not clear the air. > > > > The sunrise definition is **not mine** but adopted from Varahamihira > > (definition of Barhaspatya Varsha) ... Dewavrata or someone who is > > good with Panchanga an give this to you. > > > > Definition of Moola Dasha ... once again, I had to teach it way back > > in 2002 in Ukiah and it has been 6 years and you are still tinkering > > with it. > > > > Tara Dasha ... you have made a complete mess of it in the latest > > J-Hora 7.02 > > > > Ayanamsha ...thank God that I stopped you from coming out with another > > Narasimha Ayanamsha ..but now you have come to some level of > > understanding with the Vishnu nabhi which makes the nodes retro all > > the time ...good. Thats your pace, but that ayanamsha is also wrong. > > > > The Kalachakra dasha given in J-Hora is your interpretation and is > > also completely wrong. > > > > Finally, it is worth praying to Jagannath to get the **Big Picture** > > as He alone with His big round eyes gets the big picture ....and does > > not leave out any shloka nor does He interpret it so narrowly that > > leaves wide gaps between the other shlokas. Of course, what you will > > end up doing, which you have been consistently, is, tinkering with my > > paper. Lets wait to see your story. I hope I get it in this lifetime. > > > > > > > > Best Wishes > > > > Sanjay > > > > P.S. I am still waiting for the JHora to be made opens source so that > > other programmers can use it for development of Mac version and other > > development. When do you think this is likely to happen? 2007 is long > > gone and we are well into the end of 2008. Let go Narasimha ....let go > > of it. Is it so difficult? If you have to give something for > > Jagannath, give it totally and completely ...make the software Open > > Source! > > > > > > > > > > > > ** sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa@ . com] > > *On Behalf Of *Narasimha P.V.R. Rao > > *Sent:* 10 October 2008 09:24 > > *To:* sohamsa@ .com > > *Subject:* Re: 7 & 8 Charakaraka > > > > > > > > Namaste Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > > Once again you have come with a loaded statement without giving the > > > > technicalities. > > > > > > > > :-) To my knowledge, this is actually the *first* time I have indeed > > given a "loaded statement" without giving the technicalities. > > > > > > > > Whether it was the sunrise definition or Moola dasa calculation or > > drigdasa calculation or Kalachakra dasa calculation or argala of Rahu > > and Ketu or something else, I always gave the technicalities when I > > disagreed with you. So it is unfair to say "once again". > > > > > > > > I will give the technicalities after a few days. I am interested in > > seeing if anybody else can take a fresh look at the verses of Parasara > > without being influenced by the existing views and come up with a > > consistent interpretation that does not ignore some verses of the > > maharshi in the name of "big picture". > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana> > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > <> > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa >, > > "Sanjay Rath" <sjrath@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > > > Once again you have come with a loaded statement without giving the > > > technicalities. I have given a very detailed exposition of Parashara > > in my > > > paper on Charakaraka which is available inmy books as well. To say that I > > > have not translated Parashara is wrong. I may not have translated BPHS in > > > totality but I have interpreted and translated Parashara in BPHS in > > various > > > aspects related to jyotisha including the charakaraka. So, in this regard > > > your statement is incorrect and should be withdrawn. To see individual > > > slokas and interpret them without the others is the biggest curse to an > > > astrologer. You have to get the big picture and for this have to take > > *all > > > the shlokas* together and study them. I have done exactly this. > > > > > > I do not think anybody else in this world, other than giving parrot like > > > useless loaded statements, has done any justice to this subject of > > > charakaraka. > > > > > > As regards K N Rao, he can speak up for himself. > > > > > > Best Reagrds > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa > > > [sohamsa] On Behalf Of > > > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao > > > 10 October 2008 08:21 > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa > > > > Re: 7 & 8 Charakaraka > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Lakshmi and others, > > > > > > > > > > > > In case the adjectives used in the following sentence caused > > discomfort, I > > > can clarify: > > > > > > > > > > > > "The translations available are terrible, illogical and do not do > > justice to > > > Parasara's verses at all." > > > > > > > > > > > > Neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath published any translations of BPHS. > > > The adjectives in the above sentence relate to BPHS translations by > > > Santhanam and others. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana> > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > <> > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa >, > > "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > > > In my humble opinion, neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath got it > > right. > > > The verses of Parasara are quite complex. The translations available are > > > terrible, illogical and do not do justice to Parasara's verses at all. > > > > > > > > One CAN give a consistent and logical interpretation of Parasara's > > verses. > > > Neither Sri KN Rao's teachings nor Pt Sanjay Rath's teachings are > > based on a > > > consistent or logical interpretation of Parasara. Both deviate from > > > Parasara's teachings. I am quite convinced. > > > > > > > > At this time, I cannot say anything more on this topic. > > > > > > > > Happy Viajaya Dasami to all of you! > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > --------- > > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> > > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ > > tarpana <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana> > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > <> > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > --------- > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa >, > > "suniljohn_2002" <suniljohn_2002@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > > Dear Michal, > > > > > Michal when we learn a shastra we need to learn by the sanskrit > > verses & > > > > > quotations of various classics in respect to the variations in > > opinions > > > > > on a single topic. Unfortunately that is not prevalent in the > > cities or > > > > > in internet paramparas today. Sanjay uses 8, K N Rao uses 7 - > > both find > > > > > success in it whereas i find success in 8 as thats what i learnt in > > > > > internet parampara but thats my personal experience (maybe > > biased) which > > > > > does not demean the experience of K N Rao who has proved since > > decades > > > > > that he is one of the best predictors in the business than anyone > > around > > > > > but does that prove his point of being superior in his > > understanding of > > > > > charakaraka scheme than Sanjays, or vice versa, if one says so that > > > > > would be a small mans way of talking. Today we talk of Sanjay Vs > > Rao but > > > > > the point is since time immemorial these debates in the karakas have > > > > > existed and one finds it in Jyotish Phala Ratnamala, Sarasangraha and > > > > > various other commentaries - unfortunately todays paramparas > > cannot even > > > > > quote the verses, the way of learning a shastra is to read the moola > > > > > kitab and also its various commentaries. U can ask any internet > > Jaimini > > > > > Scholar and they wont even know how many commentaries of Jaimini are > > > > > there considered important. I have asked for this list on various > > forums > > > > > but Internet Paramparas could not answer/guide. > > > > > > > > > > See this verse from Parasara > > > > > > > > > > Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas > > > > > 1-2. I now detail below Atma Karak etc., obtainable from among the 7 > > > > > Grahas, viz. Surya to ´Sani. Some say, that Rahu will become a > > > > > Karak, when there is a state of similarity in terms of longitude > > between > > > > > (two) Grahas. Yet some say, that the 8 Grahas, including Rahu, > > will have > > > > > to be considered irrespective of such a state. > > > > > Parasara has shown here that even during his time there were two > > views, > > > > > he does not demean the other view or writer, not even subtly, a > > quality > > > > > that u find in good people from good family backgrounds. > > > > > > > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said > > that > > > > > one can use either. That would be great, then I would have > > rajyogas in > > > > > my chart that I can look forward to! > > > > > The other view point which i stated in earlier mail is these sect > > use 7 > > > > > & 8 charakaraka and only when two planets are in same long then 8 > > comes > > > > > into the picture, this is what a scholar from Jaimini Lineage who can > > > > > trace 14 generations of his parampara use it whereas Sanjay uses > > 8 and > > > > > Rao 7. Also another student of Vemuri who has written 2000 pages on > > > > > Jaimini astro (finished recently but not yet published) uses the > > same 7 > > > > > & 8. I am sure you know the authority of Vemuri Shastry. > > > > > > > > > > However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that > > > > > can't have children, like buildings and cars. > > > > > > > > > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various commentaries of > > Jaimini > > > > > which says 7 charakaraka is only for those those who can procreate. > > > > > Honestly i would love to learn and probe deeper. > > > > > > > > > > Even i used to debate with seniors outside internet that 8 > > charakaraka > > > > > is only for humans it is then they quoted the various > > commentaries which > > > > > show that both schemes have existed since time immemorial & > > during those > > > > > times it was paramparic way of learning that is memorising and > > quoting > > > > > shlokas from various commentaries to know the difference of viewpoint > > > > > and not today when we cant quote. > > > > > > > > > > On nostalgia on same topic i had asked K N Rao in 2004 to write an > > > > > article comparing 7 vs 8 charakaraka on 20 charts for us to > > understand > > > > > it better but he never did it so far. Maybe some of us can do that or > > > > > already have done that. > > > > > > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so > > if you > > > > > have time could you mention something about how it works. > > Ferrante does > > > > > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis? > > > > > > > > > > Right click on degrees in Jhora and select Navamsa Degrees, u > > will find > > > > > in Ferrantes chart some planets in same degrees then his life story > > > > > falls into picture i guess. > > > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > > Sunil John > > > > > Mumbai > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa >, > > Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil, > > > > > > > > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said > > that > > > > > one can use either. That would be great, then I would have > > rajyogas in > > > > > my chart that I can look forward to! However I was taught that 7 > > > > > charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like > > > > > buildings and cars. Parasara says that some Astrolgers use it. > > Can you > > > > > explain, based on your understanding and experience how one can use > > > > > either? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so > > if you > > > > > have time could you mention something about how it works. > > Ferrante does > > > > > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis? > > > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa > > > > > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:28:37 PM > > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to > > Mensch/His > > > > > Time as per birth certificat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > > > Dear Michal, > > > > > > I had my software tuned to 7 charakaraka scheme as i was using > > chara > > > > > dasha in previous chart, with that Amk is actually Mars and with 8 > > > > > charakaraka it is Rahu. One can use either. > > > > > > > > > > > > Another interesting thing to note about this chart is that there is > > > > > charakaraka replacement in his Navamsa, i don't know if Sanjay > > uses this > > > > > or has taught his students but there are some traditions in > > Andhra where > > > > > the tradition of Jaimini is prevalent who use charakaraka > > replacement in > > > > > divisionals. > > > > > > > > > > > > Navamsa is also the chart of ones religious bent and charakaraka > > > > > replacement happening in Navamsa is significant in his life > > wherein he > > > > > has undergone a religious transformation. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Sunil John > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ <sohamsa@> .com, > > Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil, Patheya, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is actually the AmK and is the 5th lord conjoined exalted > > > > > Lagnesha in the 6th house forming a powerful dhimanta yoga > > inclined very > > > > > much towards the Asuras. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The 7th house of partnerships is very interesting - and this also > > > > > happens to be the 9th from the AL which protects him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ .... > > > > > > > sohamsa@ <sohamsa@> .com > > > > > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 6:41:05 PM > > > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to > > > > > Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > > > > Dear Patheya, > > > > > > > His time of birth is 6 pm as per his birth certificate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the chart looks fine with a 2 min look some yogas seem to > > match his > > > > > career path though being a mafia don cannot be said with certainty by > > > > > anyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > An easy way to look is Saturn in 7H will destroy his career and > > > > > transform his religious ideas and most important destroy his > > buddhi to > > > > > take up to mafia related work. Mars retro being Amk in 2H of > > livelihood > > > > > rules what he did > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter Ketu in 12H also gave him the transformation he needed, i > > > > > have a friend who has Jupiter Ketu in 8H she transformed from > > > > > Christainity to hinduism. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Others can add > > > > > > > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > > > > Sunil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ <sohamsa@> ..com, > > Patheya Goyal <patheyagoyal@ ...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His name is Louis Ferrante. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Patheya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... wrote: > > > > > > > > Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ .... > > > > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to > > Mensch > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ <sohamsa@> .com > > > > > > > > Sunday, October 5, 2008, 8:52 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna Dear Patheya, Its possible someone has > > already > > > > > worked on his chart, what is his name? All the best Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Patheya Goyal patheyagoyal@ ... wrote: Respected > > > > > Gurujans, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have partial data about a person who has has erstwhile been a > > > > > notorious mafia don belonging to the infamous Gambino family crime > > > > > network. As per the sources I have collected on him, it was by > > > > > > > > mid-90s that law and the FBI caught up with him and he was > > given > > > > > a 10 years' sentence. But the blurbs on his books suggest that he > > spent > > > > > about 8 and 1/2 years [one source puts his release time as December > > > > > 2006] in maximum security federal prison during which time he > > read his > > > > > first book and underwent life transforming moments through certain > > > > > encounters. He took to writing and is now an established author. > > He also > > > > > spends time with wayward youth populations now mentoring them. I > > found > > > > > him very articulate, intelligent, and reflective during an interview > > > > > given to the BBC. I thought there might be interesting and certainly > > > > > instructive things to learn from his chart. However, I only have his > > > > > date and place of birth - 13 May 1969, Queens, New York. I was > > wondering > > > > > if Gurujans will indulge and suggest how we might figure his > > chart out? > > > > > Looking forward to learning from everyone. Best > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Patheya Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1717 - Release 2008-10-09 16:56 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Namaste Sanjay, > I hope I get it in this lifetime. :-) I wanted to get the ball rolling in Pisces lagna on Vijaya Dasami day. Though retrograde Mercury in 7th with 6th lord and Venus-Mars combination in 8th shows problems due to this move, I had faith in lagna lord Jupiter in 10th. I wanted to follow it up in detail only after Mercury's retrogression ends. But I made up my mind to give an " opening statement " today in Sg lagna with Jupiter exactly on lagna. * * * The first two verses of the chapter on karakas go as: athA.ahaM sampravaxyAmi grahAnAtmAdikArakAn.h | saptaravyAdishanyantAn.h rAhvantAn.h vA.ashhTasaMkhyakAn.h || 1|| aMshaiH samau grahau dvau ched.hrAhvantan.h chintayet.h tadA | saptaiva kArakAnevaM kechidashhTau prachaxate || 2|| This can be translated literally as: " Now I am speaking about seven planets from Sun to Saturn or eight planets upto Rahu, acting as the significators of self etc. If two planets are equal by degrees, then upto Rahu should be thought of. Thus, only seven significators [in some] and eight in some are considered. " Thus, Parasara opened the discussion of karakas with a simple and straight-forward introduction. Most people today either consider 7 planets always or 8 planets always. Parasara actually defined a clear condition to decide when seven karakas are used and when eight karakas are used. The decision should change from chart to chart based on what he said. I will continue after Mercury's retrogression ends. Best regards, Narasimha Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana Spirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org ------------------------------ sohamsa , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath wrote: > > Dear Narasimha > > For too long do we wait for your *few days* and you always get away with > using smart words. That's OK with Mercury lagna but it still does not clear > the air. > > The sunrise definition is *not mine* but adopted from Varahamihira > (definition of Barhaspatya Varsha) ... Dewavrata or someone who is good with > Panchanga an give this to you. > > Definition of Moola Dasha ... once again, I had to teach it way back in 2002 > in Ukiah and it has been 6 years and you are still tinkering with it. > > Tara Dasha ... you have made a complete mess of it in the latest J-Hora 7.02 > > Ayanamsha ...thank God that I stopped you from coming out with another > Narasimha Ayanamsha ..but now you have come to some level of understanding > with the Vishnu nabhi which makes the nodes retro all the time ...good. > Thats your pace, but that ayanamsha is also wrong. > > The Kalachakra dasha given in J-Hora is your interpretation and is also > completely wrong. > > > > Finally, it is worth praying to Jagannath to get the *Big Picture* as He > alone with His big round eyes gets the big picture ...and does not leave out > any shloka nor does He interpret it so narrowly that leaves wide gaps > between the other shlokas. Of course, what you will end up doing, which you > have been consistently, is, tinkering with my paper. Lets wait to see your > story. I hope I get it in this lifetime. > > > > Best Wishes > > Sanjay > > P.S. I am still waiting for the JHora to be made opens source so that other > programmers can use it for development of Mac version and other development. > When do you think this is likely to happen? 2007 is long gone and we are > well into the end of 2008. Let go Narasimha ...let go of it. Is it so > difficult? If you have to give something for Jagannath, give it totally and > completely ...make the software Open Source! > > > > > > sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao > 10 October 2008 09:24 > sohamsa > Re: 7 & 8 Charakaraka > > > > Namaste Sanjay, > > > > > > Once again you have come with a loaded statement without giving the > > > technicalities. > > > > :-) To my knowledge, this is actually the *first* time I have indeed given a > " loaded statement " without giving the technicalities. > > > > Whether it was the sunrise definition or Moola dasa calculation or drigdasa > calculation or Kalachakra dasa calculation or argala of Rahu and Ketu or > something else, I always gave the technicalities when I disagreed with you. > So it is unfair to say " once again " . > > > > I will give the technicalities after a few days. I am interested in seeing > if anybody else can take a fresh look at the verses of Parasara without > being influenced by the existing views and come up with a consistent > interpretation that does not ignore some verses of the maharshi in the name > of " big picture " . > > > > Best regards, > Narasimha > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana > Spirituality: > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > > sohamsa , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> wrote: > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > Once again you have come with a loaded statement without giving the > > technicalities. I have given a very detailed exposition of Parashara in my > > paper on Charakaraka which is available inmy books as well. To say that I > > have not translated Parashara is wrong. I may not have translated BPHS in > > totality but I have interpreted and translated Parashara in BPHS in > various > > aspects related to jyotisha including the charakaraka. So, in this regard > > your statement is incorrect and should be withdrawn. To see individual > > slokas and interpret them without the others is the biggest curse to an > > astrologer. You have to get the big picture and for this have to take *all > > the shlokas* together and study them. I have done exactly this. > > > > I do not think anybody else in this world, other than giving parrot like > > useless loaded statements, has done any justice to this subject of > > charakaraka. > > > > As regards K N Rao, he can speak up for himself. > > > > Best Reagrds > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf > Of > > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao > > 10 October 2008 08:21 > > sohamsa > > Re: 7 & 8 Charakaraka > > > > > > > > Namaste Lakshmi and others, > > > > > > > > In case the adjectives used in the following sentence caused discomfort, I > > can clarify: > > > > > > > > " The translations available are terrible, illogical and do not do justice > to > > Parasara's verses at all. " > > > > > > > > Neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath published any translations of BPHS. > > The adjectives in the above sentence relate to BPHS translations by > > Santhanam and others. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana > > Spirituality: > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > In my humble opinion, neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath got it > right. > > The verses of Parasara are quite complex. The translations available are > > terrible, illogical and do not do justice to Parasara's verses at all. > > > > > > One CAN give a consistent and logical interpretation of Parasara's > verses. > > Neither Sri KN Rao's teachings nor Pt Sanjay Rath's teachings are based on > a > > consistent or logical interpretation of Parasara. Both deviate from > > Parasara's teachings. I am quite convinced. > > > > > > At this time, I cannot say anything more on this topic. > > > > > > Happy Viajaya Dasami to all of you! > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana > > > Spirituality: > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " suniljohn_2002 " <suniljohn_2002@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > Dear Michal, > > > > Michal when we learn a shastra we need to learn by the sanskrit verses > & > > > > quotations of various classics in respect to the variations in > opinions > > > > on a single topic. Unfortunately that is not prevalent in the cities > or > > > > in internet paramparas today. Sanjay uses 8, K N Rao uses 7 - both > find > > > > success in it whereas i find success in 8 as thats what i learnt in > > > > internet parampara but thats my personal experience (maybe biased) > which > > > > does not demean the experience of K N Rao who has proved since decades > > > > that he is one of the best predictors in the business than anyone > around > > > > but does that prove his point of being superior in his understanding > of > > > > charakaraka scheme than Sanjays, or vice versa, if one says so that > > > > would be a small mans way of talking. Today we talk of Sanjay Vs Rao > but > > > > the point is since time immemorial these debates in the karakas have > > > > existed and one finds it in Jyotish Phala Ratnamala, Sarasangraha and > > > > various other commentaries - unfortunately todays paramparas cannot > even > > > > quote the verses, the way of learning a shastra is to read the moola > > > > kitab and also its various commentaries. U can ask any internet > Jaimini > > > > Scholar and they wont even know how many commentaries of Jaimini are > > > > there considered important. I have asked for this list on various > forums > > > > but Internet Paramparas could not answer/guide. > > > > > > > > See this verse from Parasara > > > > > > > > Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas > > > > 1-2. I now detail below Atma Karak etc., obtainable from among the 7 > > > > Grahas, viz. Surya to ´Sani. Some say, that Rahu will become a > > > > Karak, when there is a state of similarity in terms of longitude > between > > > > (two) Grahas. Yet some say, that the 8 Grahas, including Rahu, will > have > > > > to be considered irrespective of such a state. > > > > Parasara has shown here that even during his time there were two > views, > > > > he does not demean the other view or writer, not even subtly, a > quality > > > > that u find in good people from good family backgrounds. > > > > > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that > > > > one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas in > > > > my chart that I can look forward to! > > > > The other view point which i stated in earlier mail is these sect use > 7 > > > > & 8 charakaraka and only when two planets are in same long then 8 > comes > > > > into the picture, this is what a scholar from Jaimini Lineage who can > > > > trace 14 generations of his parampara use it whereas Sanjay uses 8 and > > > > Rao 7. Also another student of Vemuri who has written 2000 pages on > > > > Jaimini astro (finished recently but not yet published) uses the same > 7 > > > > & 8. I am sure you know the authority of Vemuri Shastry. > > > > > > > > However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for those that > > > > can't have children, like buildings and cars. > > > > > > > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various commentaries of > Jaimini > > > > which says 7 charakaraka is only for those those who can procreate. > > > > Honestly i would love to learn and probe deeper. > > > > > > > > Even i used to debate with seniors outside internet that 8 charakaraka > > > > is only for humans it is then they quoted the various commentaries > which > > > > show that both schemes have existed since time immemorial & during > those > > > > times it was paramparic way of learning that is memorising and quoting > > > > shlokas from various commentaries to know the difference of viewpoint > > > > and not today when we cant quote. > > > > > > > > On nostalgia on same topic i had asked K N Rao in 2004 to write an > > > > article comparing 7 vs 8 charakaraka on 20 charts for us to understand > > > > it better but he never did it so far. Maybe some of us can do that or > > > > already have done that. > > > > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if > you > > > > have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante > does > > > > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis? > > > > > > > > Right click on degrees in Jhora and select Navamsa Degrees, u will > find > > > > in Ferrantes chart some planets in same degrees then his life story > > > > falls into picture i guess. > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > Sunil John > > > > Mumbai > > > > > > > > sohamsa , Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil, > > > > > > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you said that > > > > one can use either. That would be great, then I would have rajyogas > in > > > > my chart that I can look forward to! However I was taught that 7 > > > > charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children, like > > > > buildings and cars. Parasara says that some Astrolgers use it. Can > you > > > > explain, based on your understanding and experience how one can use > > > > either? > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methods so if > you > > > > have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante > does > > > > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis? > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ > > > > > sohamsa > > > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:28:37 PM > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to > Mensch/His > > > > Time as per birth certificat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > > Dear Michal, > > > > > I had my software tuned to 7 charakaraka scheme as i was using chara > > > > dasha in previous chart, with that Amk is actually Mars and with 8 > > > > charakaraka it is Rahu. One can use either. > > > > > > > > > > Another interesting thing to note about this chart is that there is > > > > charakaraka replacement in his Navamsa, i don't know if Sanjay uses > this > > > > or has taught his students but there are some traditions in Andhra > where > > > > the tradition of Jaimini is prevalent who use charakaraka replacement > in > > > > divisionals. > > > > > > > > > > Navamsa is also the chart of ones religious bent and charakaraka > > > > replacement happening in Navamsa is significant in his life wherein he > > > > has undergone a religious transformation. > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > Sunil John > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil, Patheya, > > > > > > > > > > > > Rahu is actually the AmK and is the 5th lord conjoined exalted > > > > Lagnesha in the 6th house forming a powerful dhimanta yoga inclined > very > > > > much towards the Asuras. > > > > > > > > > > > > The 7th house of partnerships is very interesting - and this also > > > > happens to be the 9th from the AL which protects him. > > > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ... > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com > > > > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 6:41:05 PM > > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to > > > > Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > > > Dear Patheya, > > > > > > His time of birth is 6 pm as per his birth certificate. > > > > > > > > > > > > the chart looks fine with a 2 min look some yogas seem to match > his > > > > career path though being a mafia don cannot be said with certainty by > > > > anyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > An easy way to look is Saturn in 7H will destroy his career and > > > > transform his religious ideas and most important destroy his buddhi to > > > > take up to mafia related work. Mars retro being Amk in 2H of > livelihood > > > > rules what he did > > > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter Ketu in 12H also gave him the transformation he needed, i > > > > have a friend who has Jupiter Ketu in 8H she transformed from > > > > Christainity to hinduism. > > > > > > > > > > > > Others can add > > > > > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > > > Sunil > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Patheya Goyal <patheyagoyal@ ...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His name is Louis Ferrante. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Patheya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... wrote: > > > > > > > Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... > > > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to > Mensch > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com > > > > > > > Sunday, October 5, 2008, 8:52 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna Dear Patheya, Its possible someone has > already > > > > worked on his chart, what is his name? All the best Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Patheya Goyal patheyagoyal@ ... wrote: Respected > > > > Gurujans, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have partial data about a person who has has erstwhile been a > > > > notorious mafia don belonging to the infamous Gambino family crime > > > > network. As per the sources I have collected on him, it was by > > > > > > > mid-90s that law and the FBI caught up with him and he was > given > > > > a 10 years' sentence. But the blurbs on his books suggest that he > spent > > > > about 8 and 1/2 years [one source puts his release time as December > > > > 2006] in maximum security federal prison during which time he read his > > > > first book and underwent life transforming moments through certain > > > > encounters. He took to writing and is now an established author. He > also > > > > spends time with wayward youth populations now mentoring them. I found > > > > him very articulate, intelligent, and reflective during an interview > > > > given to the BBC. I thought there might be interesting and certainly > > > > instructive things to learn from his chart. However, I only have his > > > > date and place of birth - 13 May 1969, Queens, New York. I was > wondering > > > > if Gurujans will indulge and suggest how we might figure his chart > out? > > > > Looking forward to learning from everyone. Best > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Patheya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2008 Report Share Posted October 11, 2008 Namaste, There is a little history on Kalachakra dasa. When Sanjay ji visited my house a few years ago (I think in 2004), I showed him a Telugu language book by Raghavacharya called "Kalachakra dasa". I tried to decipher Raghavacharya's teaching in that book and explain it to Sanjay. Sanjay found the iteration method I deciphered from the book quite brilliant and instantly decided that we would present a paper at the upcoming SJC conference in India. I thought we were rushing, but consented. At that time, I had only figured out savya nakshatras and yet to figure out apasavya nakshatras. Sanjay ji asked me to finish it, write a paper and send it. After Sanjay ji left, I sent the paper as well updated JHora. Our joint paper was presented by Sanjay ji at the conference. I added it in JHora as "Nakshatra Pada Iteration Method (Rao & Rath at SJC Conference)". However, after a little more work on deciphering this, I realized that I had made a crucial mistake. Then evolved my final understanding, which IMHO is consistent with BPHS too. I added it to JHora as "Raghavacharya Method (navamsa progression)". When adding this, I consolidated various methods in the software and cleaned up the software. In the process, I broke the code of the previous method. The version in JHora was inconsistent with what was taught in our joint paper. But, I was not motivated to fix it. The way I looked at it, this version of Kalachakra dasa in our joint paper was based on a half-baked understanding of mine. It was not based on the teachings of Achyuta parampara or Sanjay's research. It was based on my half-baked interpretation of Raghavacharya's teaching and hence not really useful. Thus, I was not motivated to fix it. I can *try* to fix it in the next release. Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org sohamsa , Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote:>> *kleem namah narasimhaaya*> Dear Narasimhaji , Namaskar> > Yes, but Vistiji said me that Tara and Kalachakra dasas which he was > taught by Sanjayji are not there, so therefore my querry/request.> > Regards,> Rafal Gendarz / SJC Teacher> www: http://rohinaa.com / email: rafal > Narasimha Rao pisze:> >> > Namaste Rafal,> >> > Of course, the settings Sanjay ji prefers w.r.t. sunrise, Moola dasa> > calculation etc are all there in Jagannatha Hora. I may add new> > options after studying Parasara (e.g. drigdasa) or others (e.g.> > Raghavacharya's kalachakra dasa), but I do not get rid of Sanjay ji's> > versions.> >> > The thing with Tara dasa is that Sanjay ji said contradictory things> > to me at different times and I have coded his *latest* teaching to me.> > For the record, Tara dasa is not one of the dasas where I hold an> > independent view. I have no problem changing it based on Sanjay ji's> > latest view, if I can be educated on it. Whatever is there in software> > is what he communicated last to me.> >> > Best regards,> > Narasimha> > -------------------------> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam>> > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana>> > Spirituality: > > <>> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net>> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org>> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org>> > -------------------------> >> > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>, > > Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@> wrote:> > >> > > *kleem namah narasimhaaya*> > > Dear Narasimhaji , Namaskar> > >> > > It would be quite good to add Sanjayji settings in JHora to allow> > people> > > choose whatever settings they put faith in. What do you think ?> > >> > > Regards,> > > Rafal Gendarz / SJC Teacher> > > www: http://rohinaa.com <http://rohinaa.com> / email: rafal@> > >> > > Sanjay Rath pisze:> > > >> > > > Dear Narasimha> > > >> > > > For too long do we wait for your **few days** and you always get away> > > > with using smart words. That's OK with Mercury lagna but it still> > does> > > > not clear the air.> > > >> > > > The sunrise definition is **not mine** but adopted from Varahamihira> > > > (definition of Barhaspatya Varsha) ... Dewavrata or someone who is> > > > good with Panchanga an give this to you.> > > >> > > > Definition of Moola Dasha ... once again, I had to teach it way back> > > > in 2002 in Ukiah and it has been 6 years and you are still tinkering> > > > with it.> > > >> > > > Tara Dasha ... you have made a complete mess of it in the latest> > > > J-Hora 7.02> > > >> > > > Ayanamsha ...thank God that I stopped you from coming out with> > another> > > > Narasimha Ayanamsha ..but now you have come to some level of> > > > understanding with the Vishnu nabhi which makes the nodes retro all> > > > the time ...good. Thats your pace, but that ayanamsha is also wrong.> > > >> > > > The Kalachakra dasha given in J-Hora is your interpretation and is> > > > also completely wrong.> > > >> > > > Finally, it is worth praying to Jagannath to get the **Big Picture**> > > > as He alone with His big round eyes gets the big picture ...and does> > > > not leave out any shloka nor does He interpret it so narrowly that> > > > leaves wide gaps between the other shlokas. Of course, what you will> > > > end up doing, which you have been consistently, is, tinkering with my> > > > paper. Lets wait to see your story. I hope I get it in this lifetime.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Best Wishes> > > >> > > > Sanjay> > > >> > > > P.S. I am still waiting for the JHora to be made opens source so that> > > > other programmers can use it for development of Mac version and other> > > > development. When do you think this is likely to happen? 2007 is long> > > > gone and we are well into the end of 2008. Let go Narasimha ...let go> > > > of it. Is it so difficult? If you have to give something for> > > > Jagannath, give it totally and completely ...make the software Open> > > > Source!> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > ** sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa]> > > > *On Behalf Of *Narasimha P.V.R. Rao> > > > *Sent:* 10 October 2008 09:24> > > > *To:* sohamsa@ .com> > > > *Subject:* Re: 7 & 8 Charakaraka> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Namaste Sanjay,> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > Once again you have come with a loaded statement without> > giving the> > > > > > technicalities.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > :-) To my knowledge, this is actually the *first* time I have indeed> > > > given a "loaded statement" without giving the technicalities.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Whether it was the sunrise definition or Moola dasa calculation or> > > > drigdasa calculation or Kalachakra dasa calculation or argala of Rahu> > > > and Ketu or something else, I always gave the technicalities when I> > > > disagreed with you. So it is unfair to say "once again".> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I will give the technicalities after a few days. I am interested in> > > > seeing if anybody else can take a fresh look at the verses of> > Parasara> > > > without being influenced by the existing views and come up with a> > > > consistent interpretation that does not ignore some verses of the> > > > maharshi in the name of "big picture".> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Best regards,> > > > Narasimha> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > ---------> > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam>>> > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana> > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana>>> > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> > > > > <>>> > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net> > > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net>>> > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org>>> > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> > > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org <http://www.SriJagannath.org>>> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > ---------> > > >> > > >> > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa > > <sohamsa%40>>,> > > > "Sanjay Rath" <sjrath@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Narasimha> > > > >> > > > > Once again you have come with a loaded statement without giving the> > > > > technicalities. I have given a very detailed exposition of> > Parashara> > > > in my> > > > > paper on Charakaraka which is available inmy books as well. To> > say that I> > > > > have not translated Parashara is wrong. I may not have> > translated BPHS in> > > > > totality but I have interpreted and translated Parashara in BPHS in> > > > various> > > > > aspects related to jyotisha including the charakaraka. So, in> > this regard> > > > > your statement is incorrect and should be withdrawn. To see> > individual> > > > > slokas and interpret them without the others is the biggest> > curse to an> > > > > astrologer. You have to get the big picture and for this have to> > take> > > > *all> > > > > the shlokas* together and study them. I have done exactly this.> > > > >> > > > > I do not think anybody else in this world, other than giving> > parrot like> > > > > useless loaded statements, has done any justice to this subject of> > > > > charakaraka.> > > > >> > > > > As regards K N Rao, he can speak up for himself.> > > > >> > > > > Best Reagrds> > > > >> > > > > Sanjay Rath> > > > >> > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa > > <sohamsa%40>>> > > > [sohamsa] On Behalf Of> > > > > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao> > > > > 10 October 2008 08:21> > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa > > <sohamsa%40>>> > > > > Re: 7 & 8 Charakaraka> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Namaste Lakshmi and others,> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > In case the adjectives used in the following sentence caused> > > > discomfort, I> > > > > can clarify:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > "The translations available are terrible, illogical and do not do> > > > justice to> > > > > Parasara's verses at all."> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath published any translations> > of BPHS.> > > > > The adjectives in the above sentence relate to BPHS translations by> > > > > Santhanam and others.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Best regards,> > > > > Narasimha> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > ---------> > > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam>>> > > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/> > tarpana> > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana>>> > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> > > > > <>>> > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net> > > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net>>> > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org>>> > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> > > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org <http://www.SriJagannath.org>>> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > ---------> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa > > <sohamsa%40>>,> > > > "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Namaste friends,> > > > > >> > > > > > In my humble opinion, neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath> > got it> > > > right.> > > > > The verses of Parasara are quite complex. The translations> > available are> > > > > terrible, illogical and do not do justice to Parasara's verses> > at all.> > > > > >> > > > > > One CAN give a consistent and logical interpretation of> > Parasara's> > > > verses.> > > > > Neither Sri KN Rao's teachings nor Pt Sanjay Rath's teachings are> > > > based on a> > > > > consistent or logical interpretation of Parasara. Both deviate from> > > > > Parasara's teachings. I am quite convinced.> > > > > >> > > > > > At this time, I cannot say anything more on this topic.> > > > > >> > > > > > Happy Viajaya Dasami to all of you!> > > > > >> > > > > > Best regards,> > > > > > Narasimha> > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > > > ---------> > > > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam>>> > > > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/> > > > tarpana <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana>>> > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> > > > > <>>> > > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net> > > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net>>> > > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org>>> > > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> > > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org <http://www.SriJagannath.org>>> > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > > > ---------> > > > > >> > > > > > sohamsa@ .com > > <sohamsa <sohamsa%40>>,> > > > "suniljohn_2002" <suniljohn_2002@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Om Datta Guru> > > > > > > Dear Michal,> > > > > > > Michal when we learn a shastra we need to learn by the sanskrit> > > > verses & > > > > > > > quotations of various classics in respect to the variations in> > > > opinions> > > > > > > on a single topic. Unfortunately that is not prevalent in the> > > > cities or> > > > > > > in internet paramparas today. Sanjay uses 8, K N Rao uses 7 -> > > > both find> > > > > > > success in it whereas i find success in 8 as thats what i> > learnt in> > > > > > > internet parampara but thats my personal experience (maybe> > > > biased) which> > > > > > > does not demean the experience of K N Rao who has proved since> > > > decades> > > > > > > that he is one of the best predictors in the business than> > anyone> > > > around> > > > > > > but does that prove his point of being superior in his> > > > understanding of> > > > > > > charakaraka scheme than Sanjays, or vice versa, if one says> > so that> > > > > > > would be a small mans way of talking. Today we talk of> > Sanjay Vs> > > > Rao but> > > > > > > the point is since time immemorial these debates in the> > karakas have> > > > > > > existed and one finds it in Jyotish Phala Ratnamala,> > Sarasangraha and> > > > > > > various other commentaries - unfortunately todays paramparas> > > > cannot even> > > > > > > quote the verses, the way of learning a shastra is to read> > the moola> > > > > > > kitab and also its various commentaries. U can ask any internet> > > > Jaimini> > > > > > > Scholar and they wont even know how many commentaries of> > Jaimini are> > > > > > > there considered important. I have asked for this list on> > various> > > > forums> > > > > > > but Internet Paramparas could not answer/guide.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > See this verse from Parasara> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas> > > > > > > 1-2. I now detail below Atma Karak etc., obtainable from> > among the 7> > > > > > > Grahas, viz. Surya to ´Sani. Some say, that Rahu will become a> > > > > > > Karak, when there is a state of similarity in terms of> > longitude> > > > between> > > > > > > (two) Grahas. Yet some say, that the 8 Grahas, including Rahu,> > > > will have> > > > > > > to be considered irrespective of such a state.> > > > > > > Parasara has shown here that even during his time there were> > two> > > > views,> > > > > > > he does not demean the other view or writer, not even subtly, a> > > > quality> > > > > > > that u find in good people from good family backgrounds.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you> > said> > > > that> > > > > > > one can use either. That would be great, then I would have> > > > rajyogas in> > > > > > > my chart that I can look forward to!> > > > > > > The other view point which i stated in earlier mail is these> > sect> > > > use 7> > > > > > > & 8 charakaraka and only when two planets are in same long> > then 8> > > > comes> > > > > > > into the picture, this is what a scholar from Jaimini> > Lineage who can> > > > > > > trace 14 generations of his parampara use it whereas Sanjay> > uses> > > > 8 and> > > > > > > Rao 7. Also another student of Vemuri who has written 2000> > pages on> > > > > > > Jaimini astro (finished recently but not yet published)> > uses the> > > > same 7> > > > > > > & 8. I am sure you know the authority of Vemuri Shastry.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only for> > those that> > > > > > > can't have children, like buildings and cars.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various commentaries of> > > > Jaimini> > > > > > > which says 7 charakaraka is only for those those who can> > procreate.> > > > > > > Honestly i would love to learn and probe deeper.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Even i used to debate with seniors outside internet that 8> > > > charakaraka> > > > > > > is only for humans it is then they quoted the various> > > > commentaries which> > > > > > > show that both schemes have existed since time immemorial & > > > > during those> > > > > > > times it was paramparic way of learning that is memorising and> > > > quoting> > > > > > > shlokas from various commentaries to know the difference of> > viewpoint> > > > > > > and not today when we cant quote.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > On nostalgia on same topic i had asked K N Rao in 2004 to> > write an> > > > > > > article comparing 7 vs 8 charakaraka on 20 charts for us to> > > > understand> > > > > > > it better but he never did it so far. Maybe some of us can> > do that or> > > > > > > already have done that.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new> > methods so> > > > if you> > > > > > > have time could you mention something about how it works.> > > > Ferrante does> > > > > > > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Right click on degrees in Jhora and select Navamsa Degrees, u> > > > will find> > > > > > > in Ferrantes chart some planets in same degrees then his> > life story> > > > > > > falls into picture i guess.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > best wishes> > > > > > > Sunil John> > > > > > > Mumbai> > > > > > >> > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com> > <sohamsa <sohamsa%40>>,> > > > Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear Sunil,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme you> > said> > > > that> > > > > > > one can use either. That would be great, then I would have> > > > rajyogas in> > > > > > > my chart that I can look forward to! However I was taught> > that 7> > > > > > > charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have> > children, like> > > > > > > buildings and cars. Parasara says that some Astrolgers use> > it.> > > > Can you> > > > > > > explain, based on your understanding and experience how one> > can use> > > > > > > either?> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new> > methods so> > > > if you> > > > > > > have time could you mention something about how it works.> > > > Ferrante does> > > > > > > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis?> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Respectfully,> > > > > > > > Michal> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@> > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com > > <sohamsa <sohamsa%40>>> > > > > > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:28:37 PM> > > > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to> > > > Mensch/His> > > > > > > Time as per birth certificat> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru> > > > > > > > Dear Michal,> > > > > > > > I had my software tuned to 7 charakaraka scheme as i was> > using> > > > chara> > > > > > > dasha in previous chart, with that Amk is actually Mars and> > with 8> > > > > > > charakaraka it is Rahu. One can use either.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Another interesting thing to note about this chart is that> > there is> > > > > > > charakaraka replacement in his Navamsa, i don't know if Sanjay> > > > uses this> > > > > > > or has taught his students but there are some traditions in> > > > Andhra where> > > > > > > the tradition of Jaimini is prevalent who use charakaraka> > > > replacement in> > > > > > > divisionals.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Navamsa is also the chart of ones religious bent and> > charakaraka> > > > > > > replacement happening in Navamsa is significant in his life> > > > wherein he> > > > > > > has undergone a religious transformation.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > Sunil John> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > sohamsa@ <sohamsa@> .com,> > > > Michal Dziwulski nearmichal@ ..>> > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil, Patheya,> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Rahu is actually the AmK and is the 5th lord conjoined> > exalted> > > > > > > Lagnesha in the 6th house forming a powerful dhimanta yoga> > > > inclined very> > > > > > > much towards the Asuras.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > The 7th house of partnerships is very interesting - and> > this also> > > > > > > happens to be the 9th from the AL which protects him.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Respectfully,> > > > > > > > > Michal> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ...> > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ <sohamsa@> .com> > > > > > > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 6:41:05 PM> > > > > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to> > > > > > > Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru> > > > > > > > > Dear Patheya,> > > > > > > > > His time of birth is 6 pm as per his birth certificate.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > the chart looks fine with a 2 min look some yogas seem to> > > > match his> > > > > > > career path though being a mafia don cannot be said with> > certainty by> > > > > > > anyone.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > An easy way to look is Saturn in 7H will destroy his> > career and> > > > > > > transform his religious ideas and most important destroy his> > > > buddhi to> > > > > > > take up to mafia related work. Mars retro being Amk in 2H of> > > > livelihood> > > > > > > rules what he did> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Jupiter Ketu in 12H also gave him the transformation he> > needed, i> > > > > > > have a friend who has Jupiter Ketu in 8H she transformed from> > > > > > > Christainity to hinduism.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Others can add> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > best wishes> > > > > > > > > Sunil> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ <sohamsa@>> > .com,> > > > Patheya Goyal <patheyagoyal@ ...>> > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi ji,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > His name is Louis Ferrante.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Patheya> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... wrote:> > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ...> > > > > > > > > > Re: Interesting research case -> > Mafia to> > > > Mensch> > > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ <sohamsa@> .com> > > > > > > > > > Sunday, October 5, 2008, 8:52 PM> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna Dear Patheya, Its possible someone> > has> > > > already> > > > > > > worked on his chart, what is his name? All the best Lakshmi> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Patheya Goyal patheyagoyal@ ... wrote:> > Respected> > > > > > > Gurujans,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > I have partial data about a person who has has> > erstwhile been a> > > > > > > notorious mafia don belonging to the infamous Gambino family> > crime> > > > > > > network. As per the sources I have collected on him, it was by> > > > > > > > > > mid-90s that law and the FBI caught up with him and> > he was> > > > given> > > > > > > a 10 years' sentence. But the blurbs on his books suggest> > that he> > > > spent> > > > > > > about 8 and 1/2 years [one source puts his release time as> > December> > > > > > > 2006] in maximum security federal prison during which time he> > > > read his> > > > > > > first book and underwent life transforming moments through> > certain> > > > > > > encounters. He took to writing and is now an established> > author.> > > > He also> > > > > > > spends time with wayward youth populations now mentoring> > them. I> > > > found> > > > > > > him very articulate, intelligent, and reflective during an> > interview> > > > > > > given to the BBC. I thought there might be interesting and> > certainly> > > > > > > instructive things to learn from his chart. However, I only> > have his> > > > > > > date and place of birth - 13 May 1969, Queens, New York. I was> > > > wondering> > > > > > > if Gurujans will indulge and suggest how we might figure his> > > > chart out?> > > > > > > Looking forward to learning from everyone. Best> > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Patheya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2008 Report Share Posted October 11, 2008 Dear Narasimha, Sanjay, all, Thank you for this thread. Narasimha, 'As usual' you've given me full hands of research material /I used to use 8 only/ I look forward to seeing Me direct and a 'second part' of your explanation. Anna--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Narasimha Rao <pvr wrote: Narasimha Rao <pvr Re: 7 & 8 Charakarakasohamsa Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 1:59 PM Namaste Sanjay,> I hope I get it in this lifetime.:-)I wanted to get the ball rolling in Pisces lagna on Vijaya Dasami day.Though retrograde Mercury in 7th with 6th lord and Venus-Marscombination in 8th shows problems due to this move, I had faith inlagna lord Jupiter in 10th.I wanted to follow it up in detail only after Mercury's retrogressionends. But I made up my mind to give an "opening statement" today in Sglagna with Jupiter exactly on lagna.* * *The first two verses of the chapter on karakas go as:athA.ahaM sampravaxyAmi grahAnAtmAdikArakAn .h |saptaravyAdishanyan tAn.h rAhvantAn.h vA.ashhTasaMkhyakAn .h || 1||aMshaiH samau grahau dvau ched.hrAhvantan. h chintayet.h tadA |saptaiva kArakAnevaM kechidashhTau prachaxate || 2||This can be translated literally as: "Now I am speaking about sevenplanets from Sun to Saturn or eight planets upto Rahu, acting as thesignificators of self etc. If two planets are equal by degrees, thenupto Rahu should be thought of. Thus, only seven significators [insome] and eight in some are considered."Thus, Parasara opened the discussion of karakas with a simple andstraight-forward introduction. Most people today either consider 7planets always or 8 planets always. Parasara actually defined a clearcondition to decide when seven karakas are used and when eight karakasare used. The decision should change from chart to chart based on whathe said.I will continue after Mercury's retrogression ends.Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -sohamsa@ .com, "Sanjay Rath" <sjrath wrote:>> Dear Narasimha> > For too long do we wait for your *few days* and you always get away with> using smart words. That's OK with Mercury lagna but it still doesnot clear> the air.> > The sunrise definition is *not mine* but adopted from Varahamihira> (definition of Barhaspatya Varsha) ... Dewavrata or someone who isgood with> Panchanga an give this to you.> > Definition of Moola Dasha ... once again, I had to teach it way backin 2002> in Ukiah and it has been 6 years and you are still tinkering with it.> > Tara Dasha ... you have made a complete mess of it in the latestJ-Hora 7.02> > Ayanamsha ...thank God that I stopped you from coming out with another> Narasimha Ayanamsha ..but now you have come to some level ofunderstanding> with the Vishnu nabhi which makes the nodes retro all the time ...good.> Thats your pace, but that ayanamsha is also wrong.> > The Kalachakra dasha given in J-Hora is your interpretation and is also> completely wrong.> > > > Finally, it is worth praying to Jagannath to get the *Big Picture* as He> alone with His big round eyes gets the big picture ...and does notleave out> any shloka nor does He interpret it so narrowly that leaves wide gaps> between the other shlokas. Of course, what you will end up doing,which you> have been consistently, is, tinkering with my paper. Lets wait tosee your> story. I hope I get it in this lifetime.> > > > Best Wishes> > Sanjay> > P.S. I am still waiting for the JHora to be made opens source sothat other> programmers can use it for development of Mac version and otherdevelopment.> When do you think this is likely to happen? 2007 is long gone and we are> well into the end of 2008. Let go Narasimha ...let go of it. Is it so> difficult? If you have to give something for Jagannath, give ittotally and> completely ...make the software Open Source! > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa@ .com] OnBehalf Of> Narasimha P.V.R. Rao> 10 October 2008 09:24> sohamsa@ .com> Re: 7 & 8 Charakaraka> > > > Namaste Sanjay,> > > > > > Once again you have come with a loaded statement without giving the> > > technicalities.> > > > :-) To my knowledge, this is actually the *first* time I have indeedgiven a> "loaded statement" without giving the technicalities.> > > > Whether it was the sunrise definition or Moola dasa calculation ordrigdasa> calculation or Kalachakra dasa calculation or argala of Rahu and Ketu or> something else, I always gave the technicalities when I disagreedwith you.> So it is unfair to say "once again".> > > > I will give the technicalities after a few days. I am interested inseeing> if anybody else can take a fresh look at the verses of Parasara without> being influenced by the existing views and come up with a consistent> interpretation that does not ignore some verses of the maharshi inthe name> of "big picture".> > > > Best regards,> Narasimha> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana> Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > sohamsa@ .com, "Sanjay Rath" <sjrath@> wrote:> >> > Dear Narasimha> > > > Once again you have come with a loaded statement without giving the> > technicalities. I have given a very detailed exposition ofParashara in my> > paper on Charakaraka which is available inmy books as well. To saythat I> > have not translated Parashara is wrong. I may not have translatedBPHS in> > totality but I have interpreted and translated Parashara in BPHS in> various> > aspects related to jyotisha including the charakaraka. So, in thisregard> > your statement is incorrect and should be withdrawn. To see individual> > slokas and interpret them without the others is the biggest curseto an> > astrologer. You have to get the big picture and for this have totake *all> > the shlokas* together and study them. I have done exactly this.> > > > I do not think anybody else in this world, other than givingparrot like> > useless loaded statements, has done any justice to this subject of> > charakaraka.> > > > As regards K N Rao, he can speak up for himself.> > > > Best Reagrds> > > > Sanjay Rath> > > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa@ .com] OnBehalf> Of> > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao> > 10 October 2008 08:21> > sohamsa@ .com> > Re: 7 & 8 Charakaraka> > > > > > > > Namaste Lakshmi and others,> > > > > > > > In case the adjectives used in the following sentence causeddiscomfort, I> > can clarify:> > > > > > > > "The translations available are terrible, illogical and do not dojustice> to> > Parasara's verses at all."> > > > > > > > Neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath published any translationsof BPHS.> > The adjectives in the above sentence relate to BPHS translations by> > Santhanam and others.> > > > > > > > Best regards,> > Narasimha> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana> > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@> wrote:> > >> > > Namaste friends,> > > > > > In my humble opinion, neither Sri KN Rao nor Pt Sanjay Rath got it> right.> > The verses of Parasara are quite complex. The translationsavailable are> > terrible, illogical and do not do justice to Parasara's verses at all.> > > > > > One CAN give a consistent and logical interpretation of Parasara's> verses.> > Neither Sri KN Rao's teachings nor Pt Sanjay Rath's teachings arebased on> a> > consistent or logical interpretation of Parasara. Both deviate from> > Parasara's teachings. I am quite convinced.> > > > > > At this time, I cannot say anything more on this topic.> > > > > > Happy Viajaya Dasami to all of you!> > > > > > Best regards,> > > Narasimha> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana> > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net> > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, "suniljohn_2002" <suniljohn_2002@ >> wrote:> > > >> > > > Om Datta Guru> > > > Dear Michal,> > > > Michal when we learn a shastra we need to learn by thesanskrit verses> & > > > > quotations of various classics in respect to the variations in> opinions> > > > on a single topic. Unfortunately that is not prevalent in thecities> or> > > > in internet paramparas today. Sanjay uses 8, K N Rao uses 7 - both> find> > > > success in it whereas i find success in 8 as thats what ilearnt in> > > > internet parampara but thats my personal experience (maybe biased)> which> > > > does not demean the experience of K N Rao who has proved sincedecades> > > > that he is one of the best predictors in the business than anyone> around> > > > but does that prove his point of being superior in hisunderstanding> of> > > > charakaraka scheme than Sanjays, or vice versa, if one says sothat> > > > would be a small mans way of talking. Today we talk of SanjayVs Rao> but> > > > the point is since time immemorial these debates in thekarakas have> > > > existed and one finds it in Jyotish Phala Ratnamala,Sarasangraha and> > > > various other commentaries - unfortunately todays paramparascannot> even> > > > quote the verses, the way of learning a shastra is to read themoola> > > > kitab and also its various commentaries. U can ask any internet> Jaimini> > > > Scholar and they wont even know how many commentaries ofJaimini are> > > > there considered important. I have asked for this list on various> forums> > > > but Internet Paramparas could not answer/guide.> > > > > > > > See this verse from Parasara> > > > > > > > Ch. 32. Karakatwas of the Grahas> > > > 1-2. I now detail below Atma Karak etc., obtainable from amongthe 7> > > > Grahas, viz. Surya to ´Sani. Some say, that Rahu will become a> > > > Karak, when there is a state of similarity in terms of longitude> between> > > > (two) Grahas. Yet some say, that the 8 Grahas, including Rahu,will> have> > > > to be considered irrespective of such a state.> > > > Parasara has shown here that even during his time there were two> views,> > > > he does not demean the other view or writer, not even subtly, a> quality> > > > that u find in good people from good family backgrounds.> > > > > > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme yousaid that> > > > one can use either. That would be great, then I would haverajyogas in> > > > my chart that I can look forward to!> > > > The other view point which i stated in earlier mail is thesesect use> 7> > > > & 8 charakaraka and only when two planets are in same long then 8> comes> > > > into the picture, this is what a scholar from Jaimini Lineagewho can> > > > trace 14 generations of his parampara use it whereas Sanjayuses 8 and> > > > Rao 7. Also another student of Vemuri who has written 2000pages on> > > > Jaimini astro (finished recently but not yet published) usesthe same> 7> > > > & 8. I am sure you know the authority of Vemuri Shastry.> > > > > > > > However I was taught that 7 charakaraka scheme is only forthose that> > > > can't have children, like buildings and cars.> > > > > > > > Can you quote the relevant shlokas from various commentaries of> Jaimini> > > > which says 7 charakaraka is only for those those who canprocreate.> > > > Honestly i would love to learn and probe deeper.> > > > > > > > Even i used to debate with seniors outside internet that 8charakaraka> > > > is only for humans it is then they quoted the various commentaries> which> > > > show that both schemes have existed since time immemorial & during> those> > > > times it was paramparic way of learning that is memorising andquoting> > > > shlokas from various commentaries to know the difference ofviewpoint> > > > and not today when we cant quote.> > > > > > > > On nostalgia on same topic i had asked K N Rao in 2004 to write an> > > > article comparing 7 vs 8 charakaraka on 20 charts for us tounderstand> > > > it better but he never did it so far. Maybe some of us can dothat or> > > > already have done that.> > > > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methodsso if> you> > > > have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante> does> > > > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis?> > > > > > > > Right click on degrees in Jhora and select Navamsa Degrees, u will> find> > > > in Ferrantes chart some planets in same degrees then his lifestory> > > > falls into picture i guess.> > > > > > > > best wishes> > > > Sunil John> > > > Mumbai> > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@ >wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > > > >> > > > > Dear Sunil,> > > > >> > > > > When you mentioned using the 7 or 8 charakaraka scheme yousaid that> > > > one can use either. That would be great, then I would haverajyogas> in> > > > my chart that I can look forward to! However I was taught that 7> > > > charakaraka scheme is only for those that can't have children,like> > > > buildings and cars. Parasara says that some Astrolgers useit. Can> you> > > > explain, based on your understanding and experience how onecan use> > > > either?> > > > > > > > > > > > > As for CK replacement in Navamsa, I love to hear new methodsso if> you> > > > have time could you mention something about how it works. Ferrante> does> > > > not have any planets in the same degree so what is the basis?> > > > >> > > > > Respectfully,> > > > > Michal> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@> > > > > sohamsa@ .com> > > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 7:28:37 PM> > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to> Mensch/His> > > > Time as per birth certificat> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Om Datta Guru> > > > > Dear Michal,> > > > > I had my software tuned to 7 charakaraka scheme as i wasusing chara> > > > dasha in previous chart, with that Amk is actually Mars and with 8> > > > charakaraka it is Rahu. One can use either.> > > > >> > > > > Another interesting thing to note about this chart is thatthere is> > > > charakaraka replacement in his Navamsa, i don't know if Sanjayuses> this> > > > or has taught his students but there are some traditions in Andhra> where> > > > the tradition of Jaimini is prevalent who use charakarakareplacement> in> > > > divisionals.> > > > >> > > > > Navamsa is also the chart of ones religious bent and charakaraka> > > > replacement happening in Navamsa is significant in his lifewherein he> > > > has undergone a religious transformation.> > > > >> > > > > Regards> > > > > Sunil John> > > > >> > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulskinearmichal@ ..>> > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Sunil, Patheya,> > > > > >> > > > > > Rahu is actually the AmK and is the 5th lord conjoined exalted> > > > Lagnesha in the 6th house forming a powerful dhimanta yogainclined> very> > > > much towards the Asuras.> > > > > >> > > > > > The 7th house of partnerships is very interesting - andthis also> > > > happens to be the 9th from the AL which protects him.> > > > > >> > > > > > Respectfully,> > > > > > Michal> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > suniljohn_2002 suniljohn_2002@ ...> > > > > > sohamsa@ .com> > > > > > Tuesday, October 7, 2008 6:41:05 PM> > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to> > > > Mensch/His Time as per birth certificat> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Om Datta Guru> > > > > > Dear Patheya,> > > > > > His time of birth is 6 pm as per his birth certificate.> > > > > >> > > > > > the chart looks fine with a 2 min look some yogas seem tomatch> his> > > > career path though being a mafia don cannot be said withcertainty by> > > > anyone.> > > > > >> > > > > > An easy way to look is Saturn in 7H will destroy hiscareer and> > > > transform his religious ideas and most important destroy hisbuddhi to> > > > take up to mafia related work. Mars retro being Amk in 2H of> livelihood> > > > rules what he did> > > > > >> > > > > > Jupiter Ketu in 12H also gave him the transformation heneeded, i> > > > have a friend who has Jupiter Ketu in 8H she transformed from> > > > Christainity to hinduism.> > > > > >> > > > > > Others can add> > > > > >> > > > > > best wishes> > > > > > Sunil> > > > > >> > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Patheya Goyal<patheyagoyal@ ...>> > > > wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi ji,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > His name is Louis Ferrante.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Patheya> > > > > > >> > > > > > > --- On Sun, 10/5/08, Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ... wrote:> > > > > > > Lakshmi Kary lakshmikary@ ...> > > > > > > Re: Interesting research case - Mafia to> Mensch> > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com> > > > > > > Sunday, October 5, 2008, 8:52 PM> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna Dear Patheya, Its possible someone has> already> > > > worked on his chart, what is his name? All the best Lakshmi> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Patheya Goyal patheyagoyal@ ... wrote: Respected> > > > Gurujans,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I have partial data about a person who has has erstwhilebeen a> > > > notorious mafia don belonging to the infamous Gambino family crime> > > > network. As per the sources I have collected on him, it was by> > > > > > > mid-90s that law and the FBI caught up with him and he was> given> > > > a 10 years' sentence. But the blurbs on his books suggest that he> spent> > > > about 8 and 1/2 years [one source puts his release time asDecember> > > > 2006] in maximum security federal prison during which time heread his> > > > first book and underwent life transforming moments through certain> > > > encounters. He took to writing and is now an establishedauthor. He> also> > > > spends time with wayward youth populations now mentoring them.I found> > > > him very articulate, intelligent, and reflective during aninterview> > > > given to the BBC. I thought there might be interesting andcertainly> > > > instructive things to learn from his chart. However, I onlyhave his> > > > date and place of birth - 13 May 1969, Queens, New York. I was> wondering> > > > if Gurujans will indulge and suggest how we might figure his chart> out?> > > > Looking forward to learning from everyone. Best> > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Patheya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2008 Report Share Posted October 11, 2008 Dear Narasimha Wake me after after you have reached some distance in this ... Parasara uses both 7 and 8 charakaraka ...that's 5 years old material Anna, if this is the first time you got to know of this, then believe me there are at least 5000+ astrologers out there who already know this! I have given this in my papers on Chara Karakas, three THREE Spiritual philosphies and why each school uses either. Get hold of the book Collected Papers and its all there ... OK ...Narasimha good lagnas to get going and please don't tell me you now use Mercury retrograde for your decisions?!! So you too have joined the Sarbani club of Mercury retro checking. Anyway I am taking a real pooja break and this pooja has been grand Carry the thread along. when you deviate from anything I have said, then ...wake me up Sanjay --- On Fri, 10/10/08, Narasimha Rao <pvr wrote: > Namaste Sanjay, > > > I hope I get it in this lifetime. > > :-) > > I wanted to get the ball rolling in Pisces lagna on Vijaya Dasami day. > Though retrograde Mercury in 7th with 6th lord and Venus-Mars > combination in 8th shows problems due to this move, I had faith in > lagna lord Jupiter in 10th. > > I wanted to follow it up in detail only after Mercury's retrogression > ends. But I made up my mind to give an " opening statement " today in Sg > lagna with Jupiter exactly on lagna. > > * * * > > The first two verses of the chapter on karakas go as: > > athA.ahaM sampravaxyAmi grahAnAtmAdikArakAn .h | > saptaravyAdishanyan tAn.h rAhvantAn.h vA.ashhTasaMkhyakAn .h || 1|| > aMshaiH samau grahau dvau ched.hrAhvantan. h chintayet.h tadA | > saptaiva kArakAnevaM kechidashhTau prachaxate || 2|| > > This can be translated literally as: " Now I am speaking about seven > planets from Sun to Saturn or eight planets upto Rahu, acting as the > significators of self etc. If two planets are equal by degrees, then > upto Rahu should be thought of. Thus, only seven significators [in > some] and eight in some are considered. " > > Thus, Parasara opened the discussion of karakas with a simple and > straight-forward introduction. Most people today either consider 7 > planets always or 8 planets always. Parasara actually defined a clear > condition to decide when seven karakas are used and when eight karakas > are used. The decision should change from chart to chart based on what > he said. > > I will continue after Mercury's retrogression ends. > > Best regards, > Narasimha > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.