Guest guest Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 I apologise that inspite of not having astrological expertise i am asking these questions: 1. If Parasara is hinting at using 7-planet scheme when 2 planets have same longitude (even if we leave aside the issue of living/mundane chart for the time being), then what happens to those charts that have 3 or may be more planets with same longitude - one example like Sundeep's chart on this group? 2. Another thing is that (e.g. if we go by software calculations), then there would rarely be any chart(s) that will have exact degree:min:rd match, so practically we can use the 8-charakaraka scheme all the time? Best Regards, SS ................................ > > > > The first two verses of the chapter on karakas go as: > > > > > > > > athA.ahaM sampravaxyAmi grahAnAtmAdikArakAn .h | > > > > saptaravyAdishanyan tAn.h rAhvantAn.h vA.ashhTasaMkhyakAn .h || 1|| > > > > aMshaiH samau grahau dvau ched.hrAhvantan. h chintayet.h tadA | > > > > saptaiva kArakAnevaM kechidashhTau prachaxate || 2|| > > > > > > > > This can be translated literally as: " Now I am speaking about seven > > > > planets from Sun to Saturn or eight planets upto Rahu, acting as the > > > > significators of self etc. If two planets are equal by degrees, then > > > > upto Rahu should be thought of. Thus, only seven significators [in > > > > some] and eight in some are considered. " > > > > > > > > Thus, Parasara opened the discussion of karakas with a simple and > > > > straight-forward introduction. Most people today either consider 7 > > > > planets always or 8 planets always. Parasara actually defined a clear > > > > condition to decide when seven karakas are used and when eight karakas > > > > are used. The decision should change from chart to chart based on what > > > > he said. > > > > > > > > I will continue after Mercury's retrogression ends. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Namaste friends, 1. Later. 2. You got it reversed. If an exact match upto seconds is required (instead of just degrees) and if such a match rarely happens, then 7 chara karakas (and not 8) would be practically used all the time. In any case, your assumption is wrong. Parasara mentioned a match in only degrees and not in minutes/seconds. He said " If two planets are equal by the *degrees*, then Rahu should be considered. " He mentioned going upto minutes and seconds later on for a different purpose. For the purpose of deciding whether 7 or 8 chara karakas are to be chosen, we should only look at the degrees of planets. Thus, there ARE many charts in which 7 planets are to be used and there ARE many charts in which 8 planets are to be used (as per Parasara's teaching). * * * By the way, the same *criterion* for choosing between 7 karakas and 8 karakas was mentioned by vriddha karikas and in Neelakantha's commentary on Jaimini Sutram. Thus, there are multiple references pointing in this direction! Best regards, Narasimha Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana Spirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org ------------------------------ sohamsa , " Soul Sadhak " <soulsadhak wrote: > > I apologise that inspite of not having astrological expertise i am > asking these questions: > > 1. If Parasara is hinting at using 7-planet scheme when 2 planets > have same longitude (even if we leave aside the issue of > living/mundane chart for the time being), then what happens to those > charts that have 3 or may be more planets with same longitude - one > example like Sundeep's chart on this group? > > 2. Another thing is that (e.g. if we go by software calculations), > then there would rarely be any chart(s) that will have exact > degree:min:rd match, so practically we can use the 8-charakaraka > scheme all the time? > > Best Regards, > SS > > ............................... > > > > > The first two verses of the chapter on karakas go as: > > > > > > > > > > athA.ahaM sampravaxyAmi grahAnAtmAdikArakAn .h | > > > > > saptaravyAdishanyan tAn.h rAhvantAn.h vA.ashhTasaMkhyakAn .h > || 1|| > > > > > aMshaiH samau grahau dvau ched.hrAhvantan. h chintayet.h tadA > | > > > > > saptaiva kArakAnevaM kechidashhTau prachaxate || 2|| > > > > > > > > > > This can be translated literally as: " Now I am speaking about > seven > > > > > planets from Sun to Saturn or eight planets upto Rahu, acting > as the > > > > > significators of self etc. If two planets are equal by > degrees, then > > > > > upto Rahu should be thought of. Thus, only seven > significators [in > > > > > some] and eight in some are considered. " > > > > > > > > > > Thus, Parasara opened the discussion of karakas with a simple > and > > > > > straight-forward introduction. Most people today either > consider 7 > > > > > planets always or 8 planets always. Parasara actually defined > a clear > > > > > condition to decide when seven karakas are used and when > eight karakas > > > > > are used. The decision should change from chart to chart > based on what > > > > > he said. > > > > > > > > > > I will continue after Mercury's retrogression ends. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Narasimha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Hare Rama Krsna ||Dear Narasimha,I can't tell whether you are are beating around the bush or you are a master of suspense.Please share with us what you believe are the criteria for using either 7 or 8 CK. And if we can use 7 CK scheme for some human beings does this mean they can't have babies or that children do not play any part in their lives? Surely if their is a person without PK in their chart this must be an indication of sterility or that they are somehow a eunuch. Or are these the people that treat their Mothers like their children and vice versa since MK and PK are merged. Please give some reasoning.Respectfully,MichalNarasimha PVR Rao <pvrsohamsa Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:55:10 AM Re: 7/8 charakarakas Namaste friends, 1. Later. 2. You got it reversed. If an exact match upto seconds is required (instead of just degrees) and if such a match rarely happens, then 7 chara karakas (and not 8) would be practically used all the time. In any case, your assumption is wrong. Parasara mentioned a match in only degrees and not in minutes/seconds. He said "If two planets are equal by the *degrees*, then Rahu should be considered." He mentioned going upto minutes and seconds later on for a different purpose. For the purpose of deciding whether 7 or 8 chara karakas are to be chosen, we should only look at the degrees of planets. Thus, there ARE many charts in which 7 planets are to be used and there ARE many charts in which 8 planets are to be used (as per Parasara's teaching). * * * By the way, the same *criterion* for choosing between 7 karakas and 8 karakas was mentioned by vriddha karikas and in Neelakantha' s commentary on Jaimini Sutram. Thus, there are multiple references pointing in this direction! Best regards, Narasimha ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - sohamsa@ .com, "Soul Sadhak" <soulsadhak@ ...> wrote: > > I apologise that inspite of not having astrological expertise i am > asking these questions: > > 1. If Parasara is hinting at using 7-planet scheme when 2 planets > have same longitude (even if we leave aside the issue of > living/mundane chart for the time being), then what happens to those > charts that have 3 or may be more planets with same longitude - one > example like Sundeep's chart on this group? > > 2. Another thing is that (e.g. if we go by software calculations) , > then there would rarely be any chart(s) that will have exact > degree:min:rd match, so practically we can use the 8-charakaraka > scheme all the time? > > Best Regards, > SS > > ............ ......... ......... . > > > > > The first two verses of the chapter on karakas go as: > > > > > > > > > > athA.ahaM sampravaxyAmi grahAnAtmAdikArakAn .h | > > > > > saptaravyAdishanyan tAn.h rAhvantAn.h vA.ashhTasaMkhyakAn .h > || 1|| > > > > > aMshaiH samau grahau dvau ched.hrAhvantan. h chintayet.h tadA > | > > > > > saptaiva kArakAnevaM kechidashhTau prachaxate || 2|| > > > > > > > > > > This can be translated literally as: "Now I am speaking about > seven > > > > > planets from Sun to Saturn or eight planets upto Rahu, acting > as the > > > > > significators of self etc. If two planets are equal by > degrees, then > > > > > upto Rahu should be thought of. Thus, only seven > significators [in > > > > > some] and eight in some are considered." > > > > > > > > > > Thus, Parasara opened the discussion of karakas with a simple > and > > > > > straight-forward introduction. Most people today either > consider 7 > > > > > planets always or 8 planets always. Parasara actually defined > a clear > > > > > condition to decide when seven karakas are used and when > eight karakas > > > > > are used. The decision should change from chart to chart > based on what > > > > > he said. > > > > > > > > > > I will continue after Mercury's retrogression ends. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Narasimha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 Hare Rama Krishna Dear Narasimha, Pranams Thanks for your posts, Would you kindly give some practical examples so that we can see what happens with Rahu.? Now already we are subtracting 30'from Rahu, for his reverse direction.Would we still consider that? He can be a deceptive fellow, and maybe Im just not following how this works with him. Here are some detials from my chart, with 2 ties for placement, Also maybe you can use Sanjays chart for example to. Best wishes, Lakshmi Jan 15, 1955 5:16pm 96W22'11 30N 40'27 " 6:00West Lagna 26 GEM 27' 29 punarvasu Sat AK 26 Lib 18'49 Rahu Amk 11 Sag 23'52 Ven BK 15 Scor 21'19. Merc MK 15 Cap 04' 36. Mars Pik 7 Pi 19'54. Sun GK 1 Cap 49' 05. Jup DK 1 Can 39'06 In any case, your assumption is wrong. Parasara > mentioned a match in only degrees and not in > minutes/seconds. He said " If two planets are equal > by the *degrees*, then Rahu should be considered. " > For the purpose of deciding > whether 7 or 8 chara karakas are to be chosen, we > should only look at the degrees of planets. > > Thus, there ARE many charts in which 7 planets are > to be used and there ARE many charts in which 8 > planets are to be used (as per Parasara's teaching). ! > > Best regards, > Narasimha > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana > Spirituality: > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): > http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: > http://www.SriJagannath.org > -------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 Dear Lakshmi, I will give examples after I present the whole thing. So far I have only mentioned the criterion which is used for choosing between the 7 and 8 karaka schemes ("two planets being in the same degree"). This is only the first step. There is more. Examples will follow at the end. I answered Sundeep's question because it is only about what I have already covered. Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org sohamsa , Lakshmi Kary <lakshmikary wrote:>> Hare Rama Krishna> Dear Narasimha,> Pranams> Thanks for your posts,> Would you kindly give some practical examples so that> we can see what happens with Rahu.? Now already we are> subtracting 30'from Rahu, for his reverse> direction.Would we still consider that?> He can be a deceptive fellow, and maybe Im just not> following how this works with him.> Here are some detials from my chart, with 2 ties for> placement,> > Also maybe you can use Sanjays chart for example to.> Best wishes,> Lakshmi> > Jan 15, 1955 5:16pm 96W22'11 30N 40'27" 6:00West> Lagna 26 GEM 27' 29 punarvasu> Sat AK 26 Lib 18'49> Rahu Amk 11 Sag 23'52> > Ven BK 15 Scor 21'19.> Merc MK 15 Cap 04' 36.> Mars Pik 7 Pi 19'54.> Sun GK 1 Cap 49' 05.> Jup DK 1 Can 39'06> > In any case, your assumption is wrong. Parasara> > mentioned a match in only degrees and not in> > minutes/seconds. He said "If two planets are equal> > by the *degrees*, then Rahu should be considered."> > > For the purpose of deciding> > whether 7 or 8 chara karakas are to be chosen, we> > should only look at the degrees of planets.> > > > Thus, there ARE many charts in which 7 planets are> > to be used and there ARE many charts in which 8> > planets are to be used (as per Parasara's teaching).> !> > > > Best regards,> > Narasimha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 Dear Narasimha, 1. Ok. 2. This is what I said: "Another thing is that (e.g. if we go by software calculations), then there would rarely be any chart(s) that will have exact degree:min:rd match, so practically we can use the 8-charakarakascheme all the time?" i.e. when the exact match is not there (as it would be in most cases) then 8-CK scheme would be in use, while if exact match is there, then 7-CK scheme would be used - even if we use the matching for the other purpose that Parasara indicated....( how did I get it reversed? or I still didn't get you?) Now, even if we look at only degrees (ref: Parasara: "dwou grahou bhaaga tulyou…..") for selecting the scheme out of 7/8, the statement holds for CK replacements – i.e. the CK replacements would be so rare since the exact match (ref: Parasara…"amshaasamye kalaadhikyaanaam…") will be there in very few charts. 3. In 7-CK scheme, Putrakaraka has to merge with MAtrukaraka, (ref: Jaimini: 1.1.19: mAtre sah putraMeke), the JHora shows PK instead of PiK in the scheme – please can you explain? Also, is this meant for the `condition of same degree only for 7-CK usage' or for `CK replacement'? Many Thanx and best Regards, SS sohamsa , Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal wrote:>> Hare Rama Krsna ||> > Dear Narasimha,> > I can't tell whether you are are beating around the bush or you are a master of suspense.> > Please share with us what you believe are the criteria for using either 7 or 8 CK. And if we can use 7 CK scheme for some human beings does this mean they can't have babies or that children do not play any part in their lives? Surely if their is a person without PK in their chart this must be an indication of sterility or that they are somehow a eunuch. Or are these the people that treat their Mothers like their children and vice versa since MK and PK are merged. Please give some reasoning.> > Respectfully,> Michal> > > > > Narasimha PVR Rao pvr sohamsa > Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:55:10 AM> Re: 7/8 charakarakas> > > Namaste friends,> > 1. Later.> > 2. You got it reversed. If an exact match upto seconds is required (instead of just degrees) and if such a match rarely happens, then 7 chara karakas (and not 8) would be practically used all the time.> > In any case, your assumption is wrong. Parasara mentioned a match in only degrees and not in minutes/seconds. He said "If two planets are equal by the *degrees*, then Rahu should be considered."> > He mentioned going upto minutes and seconds later on for a different purpose. For the purpose of deciding whether 7 or 8 chara karakas are to be chosen, we should only look at the degrees of planets.> > Thus, there ARE many charts in which 7 planets are to be used and there ARE many charts in which 8 planets are to be used (as per Parasara's teaching).> > * * *> > By the way, the same *criterion* for choosing between 7 karakas and 8 karakas was mentioned by vriddha karikas and in Neelakantha' s commentary on Jaimini Sutram. Thus, there are multiple references pointing in this direction!> > Best regards,> Narasimha> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana> Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> > sohamsa@ .com, "Soul Sadhak" <soulsadhak@ ...> wrote:> >> > I apologise that inspite of not having astrological expertise i am> > asking these questions:> > > > 1. If Parasara is hinting at using 7-planet scheme when 2 planets> > have same longitude (even if we leave aside the issue of> > living/mundane chart for the time being), then what happens to those> > charts that have 3 or may be more planets with same longitude - one> > example like Sundeep's chart on this group?> > > > 2. Another thing is that (e.g. if we go by software calculations) ,> > then there would rarely be any chart(s) that will have exact> > degree:min:rd match, so practically we can use the 8-charakaraka> > scheme all the time?> > > > Best Regards,> > SS> > > > ............ ......... ......... .> > > > > > The first two verses of the chapter on karakas go as:> > > > > >> > > > > > athA.ahaM sampravaxyAmi grahAnAtmAdikArakAn .h |> > > > > > saptaravyAdishanyan tAn.h rAhvantAn.h vA.ashhTasaMkhyakAn .h> > || 1||> > > > > > aMshaiH samau grahau dvau ched.hrAhvantan. h chintayet.h tadA> > |> > > > > > saptaiva kArakAnevaM kechidashhTau prachaxate || 2||> > > > > >> > > > > > This can be translated literally as: "Now I am speaking about> > seven> > > > > > planets from Sun to Saturn or eight planets upto Rahu, acting> > as the> > > > > > significators of self etc. If two planets are equal by> > degrees, then> > > > > > upto Rahu should be thought of. Thus, only seven> > significators [in> > > > > > some] and eight in some are considered."> > > > > >> > > > > > Thus, Parasara opened the discussion of karakas with a simple> > and> > > > > > straight-forward introduction. Most people today either> > consider 7> > > > > > planets always or 8 planets always. Parasara actually defined> > a clear> > > > > > condition to decide when seven karakas are used and when> > eight karakas> > > > > > are used. The decision should change from chart to chart> > based on what> > > > > > he said.> > > > > >> > > > > > I will continue after Mercury's retrogression ends.> > > > > >> > > > > > Best regards,> > > > > > Narasimha> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 Narasimha Are you taking (1) whole degrees as per my definitions used for Mrityu Bhaga degrees or K.N.Rao’s from middle of one degree to another? OR (2) Degrees based on Lagna sphuta i.e. If Lagna is 13deg15min15sec then first degree is 13D15’15” to 14D15’15” ....these are the BHAVA Degrees and are also valid degrees OR (3) Degrees based on some other criteria like some fixed star like Chitra (?) So, initially YOU take 8 CK, and then if two planets are in the same degree, then what happens? Do you drop the one with the higher minutes or the one with the lower minutes? How is Rahu *coming into picture* if one is dropped?? If you start with 8 CK originally, then Rahu is already in the Picture! So, if you drop one of them because they have the same degree, what are you suggesting is happening to Rahu? Best Wishes Sanjay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 Dear Soul Sadhaka Even the CK scheme which I taught is wrong in Jagannath Hora. This was wrong from Day-1. I just kept quiet hoping someday things would change. Love/Sanjay Rath sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of Soul Sadhak 15 October 2008 11:25 sohamsa Re: 7/8 charakarakas Dear Narasimha, 1. Ok. 2. This is what I said: " Another thing is that (e.g. if we go by software calculations), then there would rarely be any chart(s) that will have exact degree:min:rd match, so practically we can use the 8-charakaraka scheme all the time? " i.e. when the exact match is not there (as it would be in most cases) then 8-CK scheme would be in use, while if exact match is there, then 7-CK scheme would be used - even if we use the matching for the other purpose that Parasara indicated....( how did I get it reversed? or I still didn't get you?) Now, even if we look at only degrees (ref: Parasara: " dwou grahou bhaaga tulyou….. " ) for selecting the scheme out of 7/8, the statement holds for CK replacements – i.e. the CK replacements would be so rare since the exact match (ref: Parasara… " amshaasamye kalaadhikyaanaam… " ) will be there in very few charts. 3. In 7-CK scheme, Putrakaraka has to merge with MAtrukaraka, (ref: Jaimini: 1.1.19: mAtre sah putraMeke), the JHora shows PK instead of PiK in the scheme – please can you explain? Also, is this meant for the `condition of same degree only for 7-CK usage' or for `CK replacement'? Many Thanx and best Regards, SS sohamsa , Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal wrote: > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > Dear Narasimha, > > I can't tell whether you are are beating around the bush or you are a master of suspense. > > Please share with us what you believe are the criteria for using either 7 or 8 CK. And if we can use 7 CK scheme for some human beings does this mean they can't have babies or that children do not play any part in their lives? Surely if their is a person without PK in their chart this must be an indication of sterility or that they are somehow a eunuch. Or are these the people that treat their Mothers like their children and vice versa since MK and PK are merged. Please give some reasoning. > > Respectfully, > Michal > > > > > Narasimha PVR Rao pvr > sohamsa > Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:55:10 AM > Re: 7/8 charakarakas > > > Namaste friends, > > 1. Later. > > 2. You got it reversed. If an exact match upto seconds is required (instead of just degrees) and if such a match rarely happens, then 7 chara karakas (and not 8) would be practically used all the time. > > In any case, your assumption is wrong. Parasara mentioned a match in only degrees and not in minutes/seconds. He said " If two planets are equal by the *degrees*, then Rahu should be considered. " > > He mentioned going upto minutes and seconds later on for a different purpose. For the purpose of deciding whether 7 or 8 chara karakas are to be chosen, we should only look at the degrees of planets. > > Thus, there ARE many charts in which 7 planets are to be used and there ARE many charts in which 8 planets are to be used (as per Parasara's teaching). > > * * * > > By the way, the same *criterion* for choosing between 7 karakas and 8 karakas was mentioned by vriddha karikas and in Neelakantha' s commentary on Jaimini Sutram. Thus, there are multiple references pointing in this direction! > > Best regards, > Narasimha > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > sohamsa@ .com, " Soul Sadhak " <soulsadhak@ ....> wrote: > > > > I apologise that inspite of not having astrological expertise i am > > asking these questions: > > > > 1. If Parasara is hinting at using 7-planet scheme when 2 planets > > have same longitude (even if we leave aside the issue of > > living/mundane chart for the time being), then what happens to those > > charts that have 3 or may be more planets with same longitude - one > > example like Sundeep's chart on this group? > > > > 2. Another thing is that (e.g. if we go by software calculations) , > > then there would rarely be any chart(s) that will have exact > > degree:min:rd match, so practically we can use the 8-charakaraka > > scheme all the time? > > > > Best Regards, > > SS > > > > ............ ......... ......... . > > > > > > The first two verses of the chapter on karakas go as: > > > > > > > > > > > > athA.ahaM sampravaxyAmi grahAnAtmAdikArakAn .h | > > > > > > saptaravyAdishanyan tAn.h rAhvantAn.h vA.ashhTasaMkhyakAn .h > > || 1|| > > > > > > aMshaiH samau grahau dvau ched.hrAhvantan. h chintayet.h tadA > > | > > > > > > saptaiva kArakAnevaM kechidashhTau prachaxate || 2|| > > > > > > > > > > > > This can be translated literally as: " Now I am speaking about > > seven > > > > > > planets from Sun to Saturn or eight planets upto Rahu, acting > > as the > > > > > > significators of self etc. If two planets are equal by > > degrees, then > > > > > > upto Rahu should be thought of. Thus, only seven > > significators [in > > > > > > some] and eight in some are considered. " > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus, Parasara opened the discussion of karakas with a simple > > and > > > > > > straight-forward introduction. Most people today either > > consider 7 > > > > > > planets always or 8 planets always. Parasara actually defined > > a clear > > > > > > condition to decide when seven karakas are used and when > > eight karakas > > > > > > are used. The decision should change from chart to chart > > based on what > > > > > > he said. > > > > > > > > > > > > I will continue after Mercury's retrogression ends. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Narasimha > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 Namaste Sanjay, Of course, amsa refers to whole degrees when mentioned in the context of amsa, kala and vikala (deg, mon and sec). A planet at 23 deg 1 min and a planet at 23 deg 59 min are in the same degree. But, a planet at 23 deg 59 min and 24 deg 1 min are in different degrees. > So, initially YOU take 8 CK, and then if two planets are in the same degree, No, initially we take 7 CK. If two planets are in the same degree, then only Rahu comes into the picture. Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org sohamsa , "Sanjay Rath" <sjrath wrote:> Narasimha> > Are you taking (1) whole degrees as per my definitions used for Mrityu Bhaga> degrees or K.N.Rao's from middle of one degree to another? OR> > (2) Degrees based on Lagna sphuta i.e. If Lagna is 13deg15min15sec then> first degree is 13D15'15" to 14D15'15" ...these are the BHAVA Degrees and> are also valid degrees OR> > (3) Degrees based on some other criteria like some fixed star like Chitra> (?)> > So, initially YOU take 8 CK, and then if two planets are in the same degree,> then what happens? Do you drop the one with the higher minutes or the one> with the lower minutes?> > How is Rahu *coming into picture* if one is dropped?? If you start with 8 CK> originally, then Rahu is already in the Picture!> > So, if you drop one of them because they have the same degree, what are you> suggesting is happening to Rahu?> > Best Wishes> > Sanjay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 Dear Narasimha, So you mean to say that always begin with 7-karakas, but when 2 planets have same degrees, then include Rahu, thus taking into consideration the 8th karaka. If yes, then it means that for all charts we are supposed to use Seven (quantitatively) charakarakas (inclusive or exclusive of Rahu - as applicable, thus, qualitatively taking 7 or 8 charakarakas)? If yes, then why are there 8 names given to Charakarakas? (AK, AmK, BK, MK, PK, PiK, GK and DK) Sorry, I don't understand! Many thanx and Best Regards, SS sohamsa , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr wrote: > > Namaste SS, > > > i.e. when the exact match is not there (as it would be in most cases) > > then 8-CK scheme would be in use, while if exact match is there, then > > 7-CK scheme would be used - even if we use the matching for the other > > purpose that Parasara indicated....( how did I get it reversed? or I > > still didn't get you?) > > Yes, you got it reversed. > > All planets at different degrees => Rahu is excluded, i.e. 7 karakas > Two planets in same degree => Rahu is included, i.e. 8 karakas > > I only mentioned one thing - the criterion to choose between 7 and 8 karakas. I will not answer other questions now. > > Best regards, > Narasimha > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana > Spirituality: > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > sohamsa , " Soul Sadhak " soulsadhak@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Narasimha, > > > > 1. Ok. > > > > 2. This is what I said: " Another thing is that (e.g. if we go by > > software calculations), then there would rarely be any chart(s) that > > will have exact degree:min:rd match, so practically we can use the > > 8-charakaraka > > scheme all the time? " > > > > i.e. when the exact match is not there (as it would be in most cases) > > then 8-CK scheme would be in use, while if exact match is there, then > > 7-CK scheme would be used - even if we use the matching for the other > > purpose that Parasara indicated....( how did I get it reversed? or I > > still didn't get you?) > > > > Now, even if we look at only degrees (ref: Parasara: " dwou grahou > > bhaaga tulyou... " ) for selecting the scheme out of 7/8, the > > statement holds for CK replacements - i.e. the CK replacements would > > be so rare since the exact match (ref: Parasara. " amshaasamye > > kalaadhikyaanaam. " ) will be there in very few charts. > > > > 3. In 7-CK scheme, Putrakaraka has to merge with MAtrukaraka, (ref: > > Jaimini: 1.1.19: mAtre sah putraMeke), the JHora shows PK instead of PiK > > in the scheme - please can you explain? > > > > Also, is this meant for the `condition of same degree only for 7-CK > > usage' or for `CK replacement'? > > > > Many Thanx and best Regards, > > > > SS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@> wrote: > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > > > > > Dear Narasimha, > > > > > > I can't tell whether you are are beating around the bush or you are a > > master of suspense. > > > > > > Please share with us what you believe are the criteria for using > > either 7 or 8 CK. And if we can use 7 CK scheme for some human beings > > does this mean they can't have babies or that children do not play any > > part in their lives? Surely if their is a person without PK in their > > chart this must be an indication of sterility or that they are somehow a > > eunuch. Or are these the people that treat their Mothers like their > > children and vice versa since MK and PK are merged. Please give some > > reasoning. > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ > > > sohamsa > > > Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:55:10 AM > > > Re: 7/8 charakarakas > > > > > > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > > > 1. Later. > > > > > > 2. You got it reversed. If an exact match upto seconds is required > > (instead of just degrees) and if such a match rarely happens, then 7 > > chara karakas (and not 8) would be practically used all the time. > > > > > > In any case, your assumption is wrong. Parasara mentioned a match in > > only degrees and not in minutes/seconds. He said " If two planets are > > equal by the *degrees*, then Rahu should be considered. " > > > > > > He mentioned going upto minutes and seconds later on for a different > > purpose. For the purpose of deciding whether 7 or 8 chara karakas are to > > be chosen, we should only look at the degrees of planets. > > > > > > Thus, there ARE many charts in which 7 planets are to be used and > > there ARE many charts in which 8 planets are to be used (as per > > Parasara's teaching). > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > By the way, the same *criterion* for choosing between 7 karakas and 8 > > karakas was mentioned by vriddha karikas and in Neelakantha' s > > commentary on Jaimini Sutram. Thus, there are multiple references > > pointing in this direction! > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, " Soul Sadhak " <soulsadhak@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I apologise that inspite of not having astrological expertise i am > > > > asking these questions: > > > > > > > > 1. If Parasara is hinting at using 7-planet scheme when 2 planets > > > > have same longitude (even if we leave aside the issue of > > > > living/mundane chart for the time being), then what happens to those > > > > charts that have 3 or may be more planets with same longitude - one > > > > example like Sundeep's chart on this group? > > > > > > > > 2. Another thing is that (e.g. if we go by software calculations) , > > > > then there would rarely be any chart(s) that will have exact > > > > degree:min:rd match, so practically we can use the 8-charakaraka > > > > scheme all the time? > > > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > SS > > > > > > > > ............ ......... ......... . > > > > > > > > The first two verses of the chapter on karakas go as: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > athA.ahaM sampravaxyAmi grahAnAtmAdikArakAn .h | > > > > > > > > saptaravyAdishanyan tAn.h rAhvantAn.h vA.ashhTasaMkhyakAn .h > > > > || 1|| > > > > > > > > aMshaiH samau grahau dvau ched.hrAhvantan. h chintayet.h > > tadA > > > > | > > > > > > > > saptaiva kArakAnevaM kechidashhTau prachaxate || 2|| > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This can be translated literally as: " Now I am speaking > > about > > > > seven > > > > > > > > planets from Sun to Saturn or eight planets upto Rahu, > > acting > > > > as the > > > > > > > > significators of self etc. If two planets are equal by > > > > degrees, then > > > > > > > > upto Rahu should be thought of. Thus, only seven > > > > significators [in > > > > > > > > some] and eight in some are considered. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus, Parasara opened the discussion of karakas with a > > simple > > > > and > > > > > > > > straight-forward introduction. Most people today either > > > > consider 7 > > > > > > > > planets always or 8 planets always. Parasara actually > > defined > > > > a clear > > > > > > > > condition to decide when seven karakas are used and when > > > > eight karakas > > > > > > > > are used. The decision should change from chart to chart > > > > based on what > > > > > > > > he said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will continue after Mercury's retrogression ends. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Narasimha > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Hare Rama Krsna ||Dear Narasimha,>No, initially we take 7 CK. If two planets are in the same degree, then only Rahu comes into the picture.So people with no planets in the same degree have only 7 CK. Does this mean they are incapable of having a soul level connection with their children? I am assuming that you would leave PK out. Perhaps you are suggesting leaving another CK out - maybe BK?Respectfully,MichalNarasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvrsohamsa Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 1:19:56 AM Re: 7/8 charakarakas Namaste Sanjay, Of course, amsa refers to whole degrees when mentioned in the context of amsa, kala and vikala (deg, mon and sec). A planet at 23 deg 1 min and a planet at 23 deg 59 min are in the same degree. But, a planet at 23 deg 59 min and 24 deg 1 min are in different degrees. > So, initially YOU take 8 CK, and then if two planets are in the same degree, No, initially we take 7 CK. If two planets are in the same degree, then only Rahu comes into the picture. Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- sohamsa@ .com, "Sanjay Rath" <sjrath wrote:> Narasimha> > Are you taking (1) whole degrees as per my definitions used for Mrityu Bhaga> degrees or K.N.Rao's from middle of one degree to another? OR> > (2) Degrees based on Lagna sphuta i.e. If Lagna is 13deg15min15sec then> first degree is 13D15'15" to 14D15'15" ...these are the BHAVA Degrees and> are also valid degrees OR> > (3) Degrees based on some other criteria like some fixed star like Chitra> (?)> > So, initially YOU take 8 CK, and then if two planets are in the same degree,> then what happens? Do you drop the one with the higher minutes or the one> with the lower minutes?> > How is Rahu *coming into picture* if one is dropped?? If you start with 8 CK> originally, then Rahu is already in the Picture!> > So, if you drop one of them because they have the same degree, what are you> suggesting is happening to Rahu?> > Best Wishes> > Sanjay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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