Guest guest Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Namasthe Gurus:Sanjay ji's response to Manoj (about doing a specific prayer for the recovery of Manoj's father who is currently in ICU) triggered this long standing dilemma in my mind and I hope the gurus here will be able to address my dilemma.First, I have great respect for Sanjay ji as well as others and I would add my own prayers for the recovery of manoj's father as well if that could help in any way.*****************************************************************************My dilemma:If indeed death is a certainty for all mortal beings, should we even attempt to prolong life and delay death through prayer, notwithstanding the fact that the prayer(s) may be answered or go unanswered? What is the "maya" in us that makes us believe that we should try to thwart God's own designs and intent by praying to the same God to change his own agenda? Are we trying to pursue a pure selfish agenda by trying to hold on to something, when it is better to let it go? Are we in some sense trying to further our individual agenda when perhaps it may be in the best interest to let the person pass away peacefully rather than make the person go through suffering?Would it be better to pray to give us the capacity to withstand the attendant grief and come out wiser by the experience than trying to avoid the grief in the first place? Isn't grief and pain the basic inputs for us to grow and be wise?********************************************************************************These questions come about because of my own personal predicament:My wife suffers from an undiagnoised serious ailment and all I can see is her suffering and I can see that her demise is a distinct possibility in the near future. We have gone through the rounds of various doctors and their conflicting views on the course of treatment. Every day I see her suffering and the collateral suffering that others in the family go through. I have done all kinds of religious prayers but there has been no clear solution in sight. I have 2 young children as well and I can very well understand what it would be to raise them if my spouse passes away.Earlier I used to pray that my spouse should recover, but nowadays I don't. On the rare occassion that I pray now, I pray that if death indeed is the answer to the primary suffering and the collateral suffering, I am prepared to accept that. I have sort of come to terms with the inevitability of death and am more involved in thinking about a life without her. It's not to say that I don't love her. My sympathy for her has transcended whatever love I have for her. **********************************************************************************A lot of people (including my family and friends) have accused me of being cynical, fatalistic and even an aethist. I don't know how to counter that. Here's the crux of my personal dilemma:By not praying for my wife's health and refusing to do any kind of religious procedures (some are expensive and its efficacy unknown), am I:Being an aethist?Not showing / exhibiting any love for my spouse?Not caring for my children's welfare?Is acceptance of Reality and not asking it to be changed a sign of cynicism?If the good God was kind enough, would he not have listened to everyone's prayers? Maybe God in his infinite wisdom wants to learn acceptance and learn to adapt.Gurus, Please let me have your views. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 || Om Gurave Namah ||Dear Subaseren, Sage Parashara in BPHS also gives many remedies for apa mrityu (or death before due time). Sage gives remedies based not only on the Natal chart but also by Dasha and transits. The puranas are also replete with many instances where life has been prolonged, famous example being Markendaya rishi. There are also othere examples like that of Savitiri prolonging the life of her husband. But Karma cannot be changed and it has to endured by the native. The person giving the remedy and person doing the remedy will sure face some amount of the karma, The quantity maybe different. Guruji must surely thought about these while giving the remedy. Please read Aghora book' on Law of Karma by Robert Svoboda for more examples. Warm RegardsSanjay P.2008/10/14 subaseren <subaseren Namasthe Gurus:Sanjay ji's response to Manoj (about doing a specific prayer for the recovery of Manoj's father who is currently in ICU) triggered this long standing dilemma in my mind and I hope the gurus here will be able to address my dilemma. First, I have great respect for Sanjay ji as well as others and I would add my own prayers for the recovery of manoj's father as well if that could help in any way.***************************************************************************** My dilemma:If indeed death is a certainty for all mortal beings, should we even attempt to prolong life and delay death through prayer, notwithstanding the fact that the prayer(s) may be answered or go unanswered? What is the " maya " in us that makes us believe that we should try to thwart God's own designs and intent by praying to the same God to change his own agenda? Are we trying to pursue a pure selfish agenda by trying to hold on to something, when it is better to let it go? Are we in some sense trying to further our individual agenda when perhaps it may be in the best interest to let the person pass away peacefully rather than make the person go through suffering? Would it be better to pray to give us the capacity to withstand the attendant grief and come out wiser by the experience than trying to avoid the grief in the first place? Isn't grief and pain the basic inputs for us to grow and be wise? ********************************************************************************These questions come about because of my own personal predicament:My wife suffers from an undiagnoised serious ailment and all I can see is her suffering and I can see that her demise is a distinct possibility in the near future. We have gone through the rounds of various doctors and their conflicting views on the course of treatment. Every day I see her suffering and the collateral suffering that others in the family go through. I have done all kinds of religious prayers but there has been no clear solution in sight. I have 2 young children as well and I can very well understand what it would be to raise them if my spouse passes away. Earlier I used to pray that my spouse should recover, but nowadays I don't. On the rare occassion that I pray now, I pray that if death indeed is the answer to the primary suffering and the collateral suffering, I am prepared to accept that. I have sort of come to terms with the inevitability of death and am more involved in thinking about a life without her. It's not to say that I don't love her. My sympathy for her has transcended whatever love I have for her. **********************************************************************************A lot of people (including my family and friends) have accused me of being cynical, fatalistic and even an aethist. I don't know how to counter that. Here's the crux of my personal dilemma: By not praying for my wife's health and refusing to do any kind of religious procedures (some are expensive and its efficacy unknown), am I:Being an aethist?Not showing / exhibiting any love for my spouse? Not caring for my children's welfare?Is acceptance of Reality and not asking it to be changed a sign of cynicism?If the good God was kind enough, would he not have listened to everyone's prayers? Maybe God in his infinite wisdom wants to learn acceptance and learn to adapt. Gurus, Please let me have your views. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Dear Sanjay: I have heard the stories. All I am saying is that Death for everyone is a certainty and a given. And how does one determine whether it is on time or before time? It implies that astrologers can be accurate about predicting one's death and that it is then possible to postpone the day of reckoning. And how does one determine the efficacy of the remedy for such an event? And if someone is giving the remedy to a problem, why should he face some kind of karma? We all face our karma based on how we lead our lives, why single this out for special significance? I wish that you answer some of the questions that I have outlined. I am not challenging any view; just that I am genuinely trying to seek some answers. sohamsa , " Sanjay Prabhakaran " <sanjaychettiar wrote: > > || Om Gurave Namah || > Dear Subaseren, > Sage Parashara in BPHS also gives many remedies for apa mrityu (or death > before due time). Sage gives remedies based not only on the Natal chart but > also by Dasha and transits. The puranas are also replete with many instances > where life has been prolonged, famous example being Markendaya rishi. There > are also othere examples like that of Savitiri prolonging the life of her > husband. But Karma cannot be changed and it has to endured by the native. > The person giving the remedy and person doing the remedy will sure face some > amount of the karma, The quantity maybe different. Guruji must surely > thought about these while giving the remedy. Please read Aghora book' on > Law of Karma by Robert Svoboda for more examples. > Warm Regards > Sanjay P. > > > 2008/10/14 subaseren subaseren > > > Namasthe Gurus: > > > > Sanjay ji's response to Manoj (about doing a specific prayer for the > > recovery of Manoj's father who is currently in ICU) triggered this long > > standing dilemma in my mind and I hope the gurus here will be able to > > address my dilemma. > > > > First, I have great respect for Sanjay ji as well as others and I would add > > my own prayers for the recovery of manoj's father as well if that could help > > in any way. > > > > > > ************************************************************************\ ***** > > My dilemma: > > > > If indeed death is a certainty for all mortal beings, should we even > > attempt to prolong life and delay death through prayer, notwithstanding the > > fact that the prayer(s) may be answered or go unanswered? What is the " maya " > > in us that makes us believe that we should try to thwart God's own designs > > and intent by praying to the same God to change his own agenda? Are we > > trying to pursue a pure selfish agenda by trying to hold on to something, > > when it is better to let it go? Are we in some sense trying to further our > > individual agenda when perhaps it may be in the best interest to let the > > person pass away peacefully rather than make the person go through > > suffering? > > > > Would it be better to pray to give us the capacity to withstand the > > attendant grief and come out wiser by the experience than trying to avoid > > the grief in the first place? Isn't grief and pain the basic inputs for us > > to grow and be wise? > > > > > > ************************************************************************\ ******** > > These questions come about because of my own personal predicament: > > > > My wife suffers from an undiagnoised serious ailment and all I can see is > > her suffering and I can see that her demise is a distinct possibility in the > > near future. We have gone through the rounds of various doctors and their > > conflicting views on the course of treatment. Every day I see her suffering > > and the collateral suffering that others in the family go through. I have > > done all kinds of religious prayers but there has been no clear solution in > > sight. I have 2 young children as well and I can very well understand what > > it would be to raise them if my spouse passes away. > > > > Earlier I used to pray that my spouse should recover, but nowadays I don't. > > On the rare occassion that I pray now, I pray that if death indeed is the > > answer to the primary suffering and the collateral suffering, I am prepared > > to accept that. I have sort of come to terms with the inevitability of > > death and am more involved in thinking about a life without her. It's not to > > say that I don't love her. My sympathy for her has transcended whatever love > > I have for her. > > > > > > ************************************************************************\ ********** > > > > A lot of people (including my family and friends) have accused me of being > > cynical, fatalistic and even an aethist. I don't know how to counter that. > > Here's the crux of my personal dilemma: > > > > By not praying for my wife's health and refusing to do any kind of > > religious procedures (some are expensive and its efficacy unknown), am I: > > > > 1. Being an aethist? > > 2. Not showing / exhibiting any love for my spouse? > > 3. Not caring for my children's welfare? > > 4. Is acceptance of Reality and not asking it to be changed a sign of > > cynicism? > > > > If the good God was kind enough, would he not have listened to everyone's > > prayers? Maybe God in his infinite wisdom wants to learn acceptance and > > learn to adapt. > > > > > > Gurus, Please let me have your views. Thanks. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Namaste SriYou have sought a response from " Gurus " . I am not one. If that isn't a hurdle, then, please read below:Results of action are in the hands of Ishwara. Actions, to a limited extent, are in our hands. A prayer to the Lord is a recognition of the Almighty Lord, a submission of our ego-self that there is a power much greater than us, and a karma seeking to rectify something in our lives. The prayer could be:1. To burn/deflect previous unseen or conscious karma.2. To gain strength to bear the results of previous karma or some future possible karma.3. To remove hurdles in gaining knowledge by which previous and agami karma can be burned. etc... etc..Specific prayers are specified for some specific results as are mentioned in some books. Since results of the prayer karma are also in the hands of the Lord, one cannot say that a specific prayer will bring a definite certain result. The astrologer gives the prayer to the best of his/her knowledge and hopes that the kind Lord would give beneficial results to the client. Having said this, you have asked a question of acceptance. Acceptance is one of the most important qualities for gaining true happiness. But, it is to be understood. At any given point of time, there are two possibilities, namely: 1. Things we can change.2. Things we cannot change. Accept the things we cannot change. Like we can't change our biological father and mother or our birth date. We cannot change others unless they want to change themselves. Similarly, you can find things you can change. You can change yourself. So Try to change the things you can, if needed. In case of your wife's serious trouble, you can continue to accept it since you cannot change it. But, the Lord can change it. So pray. The prayers will either remove the trouble, or give your wife the strength to bear it OR it will give you the joy of praying to the Almighty Lord and improving your own karma. In either case, you are not in a loss from prayer. Now comes the question of expensive prayers. I know we astrologers sometimes specify such prayers that it becomes very difficult for them to spend so much. Herein, if you feel there is a prayer that you can do, please continue doing that. Your family can jointly do some prayers. Acceptance is not cynicism, but not wanting to change the things you can or to do the only other karma available to you for trying for lesser pain/recovery/painless transference to next life/etc... could be construed as cynicism. Cynical behavior can also result from a conclusion that mantras/prayers do not work or give desired results, especially after the native or its family has tried it. Please do not fall into its trap. Accept her current self and accept death as and when it comes, but do try to do whatever you can to ease her pain. You can chant Mahamritunjya Mantra for her, if you want. Do not stop your actions. Acceptance does not mean ceasure of your actions. Thanks and RegardsBharatOn Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 9:01 AM, subaseren <subaseren wrote: Namasthe Gurus:Sanjay ji's response to Manoj (about doing a specific prayer for the recovery of Manoj's father who is currently in ICU) triggered this long standing dilemma in my mind and I hope the gurus here will be able to address my dilemma. First, I have great respect for Sanjay ji as well as others and I would add my own prayers for the recovery of manoj's father as well if that could help in any way.***************************************************************************** My dilemma:If indeed death is a certainty for all mortal beings, should we even attempt to prolong life and delay death through prayer, notwithstanding the fact that the prayer(s) may be answered or go unanswered? What is the " maya " in us that makes us believe that we should try to thwart God's own designs and intent by praying to the same God to change his own agenda? Are we trying to pursue a pure selfish agenda by trying to hold on to something, when it is better to let it go? Are we in some sense trying to further our individual agenda when perhaps it may be in the best interest to let the person pass away peacefully rather than make the person go through suffering? Would it be better to pray to give us the capacity to withstand the attendant grief and come out wiser by the experience than trying to avoid the grief in the first place? Isn't grief and pain the basic inputs for us to grow and be wise? ********************************************************************************These questions come about because of my own personal predicament:My wife suffers from an undiagnoised serious ailment and all I can see is her suffering and I can see that her demise is a distinct possibility in the near future. We have gone through the rounds of various doctors and their conflicting views on the course of treatment. Every day I see her suffering and the collateral suffering that others in the family go through. I have done all kinds of religious prayers but there has been no clear solution in sight. I have 2 young children as well and I can very well understand what it would be to raise them if my spouse passes away. Earlier I used to pray that my spouse should recover, but nowadays I don't. On the rare occassion that I pray now, I pray that if death indeed is the answer to the primary suffering and the collateral suffering, I am prepared to accept that. I have sort of come to terms with the inevitability of death and am more involved in thinking about a life without her. It's not to say that I don't love her. My sympathy for her has transcended whatever love I have for her. **********************************************************************************A lot of people (including my family and friends) have accused me of being cynical, fatalistic and even an aethist. I don't know how to counter that. Here's the crux of my personal dilemma: By not praying for my wife's health and refusing to do any kind of religious procedures (some are expensive and its efficacy unknown), am I:Being an aethist?Not showing / exhibiting any love for my spouse? Not caring for my children's welfare?Is acceptance of Reality and not asking it to be changed a sign of cynicism?If the good God was kind enough, would he not have listened to everyone's prayers? Maybe God in his infinite wisdom wants to learn acceptance and learn to adapt. Gurus, Please let me have your views. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Dear Bharatji: Thanks for your interesting response detailing the significance of prayer and the relevance of acceptance. I recognize the importance of prayer;however my key question is whether a prayer is the appropriate mechanism for a specific desired intervention -- that one should use to postpone death of a near and dear one, especially so if the person is going through suffering and that death can effectively put an end to suffering and if there's no meaningful remedy even from experts. I would like to hear your view to this specific question. Despite being a Hindu, I have steadfastly believed in the Biblical prayer of " God, give me the courage to change the things I can, the power to accept the things I cannot AND THE WISDOM to know the difference " . Most of us lack the wisdom part and hence we can't discriminate when it is appropriate to seek the change and when to accept the change. I certainly never passed the wisdom test. Since you seem interested to clarify, can I request you to please give your views to the various questions please? It will only help me improve my understanding and hopefully address the dilemma. Thanks again. P.S. I consider anyone and everyone who can dispel my ignorance and show me the path to be my Guru. So, you are a guru as well. sohamsa , " Bharat - Hindu Astrology " <astrologyhindu wrote: > > Namaste Sri > > You have sought a response from " Gurus " . I am not one. If that isn't a > hurdle, then, please read below: > > Results of action are in the hands of Ishwara. Actions, to a limited extent, > are in our hands. A prayer to the Lord is a recognition of the Almighty > Lord, a submission of our ego-self that there is a power much greater than > us, and a karma seeking to rectify something in our lives. > > The prayer could be: > 1. To burn/deflect previous unseen or conscious karma. > 2. To gain strength to bear the results of previous karma or some future > possible karma. > 3. To remove hurdles in gaining knowledge by which previous and agami karma > can be burned. > etc... etc.. > > Specific prayers are specified for some specific results as are mentioned in > some books. Since results of the prayer karma are also in the hands of the > Lord, one cannot say that a specific prayer will bring a *definite* *certain > * result. The astrologer gives the prayer to the best of his/her knowledge > and hopes that the kind Lord would give beneficial results to the client. > > Having said this, you have asked a question of acceptance. Acceptance is one > of the most important qualities for gaining true happiness. But, it is to be > understood. At any given point of time, there are two possibilities, namely: > > 1. Things we can change. > 2. Things we cannot change. > > Accept the things we cannot change. Like we can't change our biological > father and mother or our birth date. We cannot change others unless they > want to change themselves. Similarly, you can find things you can change. > You can change yourself. So Try to change the things you can, if needed. In > case of your wife's serious trouble, you can continue to accept it since you > cannot change it. But, the Lord can change it. So pray. The prayers will > either remove the trouble, or give your wife the strength to bear it OR it > will give you the joy of praying to the Almighty Lord and improving your own > karma. In either case, you are not in a loss from prayer. > > Now comes the question of expensive prayers. I know we astrologers sometimes > specify such prayers that it becomes very difficult for them to spend so > much. Herein, if you feel there is a prayer that you can do, please continue > doing that. Your family can jointly do some prayers. > > Acceptance is not cynicism, but not wanting to change the things you can or > to do the only other karma available to you for trying for lesser > pain/recovery/painless transference to next life/etc... could be construed > as cynicism. Cynical behavior can also result from a conclusion that > mantras/prayers do not work or give desired results, especially after the > native or its family has tried it. Please do not fall into its trap. > > Accept her current self and accept death as and when it comes, but do try to > do whatever you can to ease her pain. You can chant Mahamritunjya Mantra for > her, if you want. Do not stop your actions. Acceptance does not mean ceasure > of your actions. > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 9:01 AM, subaseren subaseren wrote: > > > Namasthe Gurus: > > > > Sanjay ji's response to Manoj (about doing a specific prayer for the > > recovery of Manoj's father who is currently in ICU) triggered this long > > standing dilemma in my mind and I hope the gurus here will be able to > > address my dilemma. > > > > First, I have great respect for Sanjay ji as well as others and I would add > > my own prayers for the recovery of manoj's father as well if that could help > > in any way. > > > > > > ************************************************************************\ ***** > > My dilemma: > > > > If indeed death is a certainty for all mortal beings, should we even > > attempt to prolong life and delay death through prayer, notwithstanding the > > fact that the prayer(s) may be answered or go unanswered? What is the " maya " > > in us that makes us believe that we should try to thwart God's own designs > > and intent by praying to the same God to change his own agenda? Are we > > trying to pursue a pure selfish agenda by trying to hold on to something, > > when it is better to let it go? Are we in some sense trying to further our > > individual agenda when perhaps it may be in the best interest to let the > > person pass away peacefully rather than make the person go through > > suffering? > > > > Would it be better to pray to give us the capacity to withstand the > > attendant grief and come out wiser by the experience than trying to avoid > > the grief in the first place? Isn't grief and pain the basic inputs for us > > to grow and be wise? > > > > > > ************************************************************************\ ******** > > These questions come about because of my own personal predicament: > > > > My wife suffers from an undiagnoised serious ailment and all I can see is > > her suffering and I can see that her demise is a distinct possibility in the > > near future. We have gone through the rounds of various doctors and their > > conflicting views on the course of treatment. Every day I see her suffering > > and the collateral suffering that others in the family go through. I have > > done all kinds of religious prayers but there has been no clear solution in > > sight. I have 2 young children as well and I can very well understand what > > it would be to raise them if my spouse passes away. > > > > Earlier I used to pray that my spouse should recover, but nowadays I don't. > > On the rare occassion that I pray now, I pray that if death indeed is the > > answer to the primary suffering and the collateral suffering, I am prepared > > to accept that. I have sort of come to terms with the inevitability of > > death and am more involved in thinking about a life without her. It's not to > > say that I don't love her. My sympathy for her has transcended whatever love > > I have for her. > > > > > > ************************************************************************\ ********** > > > > A lot of people (including my family and friends) have accused me of being > > cynical, fatalistic and even an aethist. I don't know how to counter that. > > Here's the crux of my personal dilemma: > > > > By not praying for my wife's health and refusing to do any kind of > > religious procedures (some are expensive and its efficacy unknown), am I: > > > > 1. Being an aethist? > > 2. Not showing / exhibiting any love for my spouse? > > 3. Not caring for my children's welfare? > > 4. Is acceptance of Reality and not asking it to be changed a sign of > > cynicism? > > > > If the good God was kind enough, would he not have listened to everyone's > > prayers? Maybe God in his infinite wisdom wants to learn acceptance and > > learn to adapt. > > > > > > Gurus, Please let me have your views. Thanks. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 I'm not at all a Guru or any authority on these matters, however having undergone a similar experience of watching my late father suffer for a long time (~10 years!) before he passed, I can completely relate to your experience and hence my $0.02:- * You can still pray for reduced suffering of your wife and everyone involved, no? Reduced suffering can be in whatever form He wishes. * IMHO your current attitude is not atheism or cynicism, merely acceptance of the futility of it all coupled with contemplation of the impermanence of everything. Such detachment typically converts in to " Spiritual pursuit " , one way or another (pun intended here -- some people get pushed on the path of becoming intoxicated with Divine love, others merely get intoxicated). * The wise ones say that is impossible for most of us ordinary mortals to figure out the Divine play behind suffering; they advise that the appropriate response would be to accept it as reducing the karmic debt and move on, as hard it is. With my prayers for you and your family, Best, ../Dinesh sohamsa , " subaseren " <subaseren wrote: > > Namasthe Gurus: > > Sanjay ji's response to Manoj (about doing a specific prayer for the > recovery of Manoj's father who is currently in ICU) triggered this long > standing dilemma in my mind and I hope the gurus here will be able to > address my dilemma. > > First, I have great respect for Sanjay ji as well as others and I would > add my own prayers for the recovery of manoj's father as well if that > could help in any way. > > ************************************************************************\ > ***** > My dilemma: > > If indeed death is a certainty for all mortal beings, should we even > attempt to prolong life and delay death through prayer, notwithstanding > the fact that the prayer(s) may be answered or go unanswered? What is > the " maya " in us that makes us believe that we should try to thwart > God's own designs and intent by praying to the same God to change his > own agenda? Are we trying to pursue a pure selfish agenda by trying to > hold on to something, when it is better to let it go? Are we in some > sense trying to further our individual agenda when perhaps it may be in > the best interest to let the person pass away peacefully rather than > make the person go through suffering? > > Would it be better to pray to give us the capacity to withstand the > attendant grief and come out wiser by the experience than trying to > avoid the grief in the first place? Isn't grief and pain the basic > inputs for us to grow and be wise? > > ************************************************************************\ > ******** > These questions come about because of my own personal predicament: > > My wife suffers from an undiagnoised serious ailment and all I can see > is her suffering and I can see that her demise is a distinct possibility > in the near future. We have gone through the rounds of various doctors > and their conflicting views on the course of treatment. Every day I see > her suffering and the collateral suffering that others in the family go > through. I have done all kinds of religious prayers but there has been > no clear solution in sight. I have 2 young children as well and I can > very well understand what it would be to raise them if my spouse passes > away. > > Earlier I used to pray that my spouse should recover, but nowadays I > don't. On the rare occassion that I pray now, I pray that if death > indeed is the answer to the primary suffering and the collateral > suffering, I am prepared to accept that. I have sort of come to terms > with the inevitability of death and am more involved in thinking about a > life without her. It's not to say that I don't love her. My sympathy for > her has transcended whatever love I have for her. > > ************************************************************************\ > ********** > > A lot of people (including my family and friends) have accused me of > being cynical, fatalistic and even an aethist. I don't know how to > counter that. Here's the crux of my personal dilemma: > > By not praying for my wife's health and refusing to do any kind of > religious procedures (some are expensive and its efficacy unknown), am > I: > > 1. Being an aethist? > 2. Not showing / exhibiting any love for my spouse? > 3. Not caring for my children's welfare? > 4. Is acceptance of Reality and not asking it to be changed a sign of > cynicism? > > If the good God was kind enough, would he not have listened to > everyone's prayers? Maybe God in his infinite wisdom wants to learn > acceptance and learn to adapt. > > > Gurus, Please let me have your views. Thanks. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Namaste SriI think I answered your direct question in the last paragraph. Please allow me to explain (in blue color): " I recognize the importance of prayer;however my key question is whether a prayer is the appropriate mechanism for a specific desired intervention -- that one should use to postpone death of a near and dear one, You are no one to postpone death nor is the astrologer. You or the astrologer cannot be sure whether a particular prayer will definitely postpone death or not. The result of your prayer is to be decided by the Lord. You do your duty and let the result be decided by the Lord. Prayerful existence is a boon for everything that is, is the Lord. Even if through our limited knowledge, we have reasons to believe that a said person is likely to die young and we specify Mahamritunjya Sanjivni Mantra, we cannot make an egoistical statement that we postponed death. It is silly to even think it. We can only be thankful to the Lord for saving one's life. Similarly, when one seems to beyond all help, our prayer should be for peace whether in health or in after life. Leave the result to the Lord, but should we stop praying? We should not. In your situation, you can pray to the Lord seeking to end your wife's suffering, preferably in this life and by granting her health. Your prayer is for peace for your loved one. If it can be achieved in health, so be it. If it can be achieved in after life, so be it. You should be prepared to accept both results. The result as decided by the Lord is likely to take your wife's Karmas, both drisht and adrisht, into account.especially so if the person is going through suffering and that death can effectively put an end to suffering and if there's no meaningful remedy even from experts. I would like to hear your view to this specific question. " We cannot decide this for another. She is your wife in this life. She, as an individual soul, is independent and has her own karmas. What if she wants to live? What if the life force is very strong? Can we ever justify praying for her death? That is why we pray to the Lord, and ask for removal of her suffering and making her happy. Your question also asks a hidden question - " Are we interfering with the Lord's work " ? -> we are not. Every karma brings a result - desired or undesired. We remain under that karmic principle and pray to make our karma bring more of the desired result. We cannot egoistically relate the cause of extension of one's life to our prayers, but to the Lord's grace which may or may not have been because of our prayers. I hope the above helps.Thanks and RegardsBharatOn Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 7:28 PM, subaseren <subaseren wrote: Dear Bharatji: Thanks for your interesting response detailing the significance of prayer and the relevance of acceptance. I recognize the importance of prayer;however my key question is whether a prayer is the appropriate mechanism for a specific desired intervention -- that one should use to postpone death of a near and dear one, especially so if the person is going through suffering and that death can effectively put an end to suffering and if there's no meaningful remedy even from experts. I would like to hear your view to this specific question. Despite being a Hindu, I have steadfastly believed in the Biblical prayer of " God, give me the courage to change the things I can, the power to accept the things I cannot AND THE WISDOM to know the difference " . Most of us lack the wisdom part and hence we can't discriminate when it is appropriate to seek the change and when to accept the change. I certainly never passed the wisdom test. Since you seem interested to clarify, can I request you to please give your views to the various questions please? It will only help me improve my understanding and hopefully address the dilemma. Thanks again. P.S. I consider anyone and everyone who can dispel my ignorance and show me the path to be my Guru. So, you are a guru as well. sohamsa , " Bharat - Hindu Astrology " <astrologyhindu wrote: > > Namaste Sri > > You have sought a response from " Gurus " . I am not one. If that isn't a > hurdle, then, please read below: > > Results of action are in the hands of Ishwara. Actions, to a limited extent, > are in our hands. A prayer to the Lord is a recognition of the Almighty > Lord, a submission of our ego-self that there is a power much greater than > us, and a karma seeking to rectify something in our lives. > > The prayer could be: > 1. To burn/deflect previous unseen or conscious karma. > 2. To gain strength to bear the results of previous karma or some future > possible karma. > 3. To remove hurdles in gaining knowledge by which previous and agami karma > can be burned. > etc... etc.. > > Specific prayers are specified for some specific results as are mentioned in > some books. Since results of the prayer karma are also in the hands of the > Lord, one cannot say that a specific prayer will bring a *definite* *certain > * result. The astrologer gives the prayer to the best of his/her knowledge > and hopes that the kind Lord would give beneficial results to the client. > > Having said this, you have asked a question of acceptance. Acceptance is one > of the most important qualities for gaining true happiness. But, it is to be > understood. At any given point of time, there are two possibilities, namely: > > 1. Things we can change. > 2. Things we cannot change. > > Accept the things we cannot change. Like we can't change our biological > father and mother or our birth date. We cannot change others unless they > want to change themselves. Similarly, you can find things you can change. > You can change yourself. So Try to change the things you can, if needed. In > case of your wife's serious trouble, you can continue to accept it since you > cannot change it. But, the Lord can change it. So pray. The prayers will > either remove the trouble, or give your wife the strength to bear it OR it > will give you the joy of praying to the Almighty Lord and improving your own > karma. In either case, you are not in a loss from prayer. > > Now comes the question of expensive prayers. I know we astrologers sometimes > specify such prayers that it becomes very difficult for them to spend so > much. Herein, if you feel there is a prayer that you can do, please continue > doing that. Your family can jointly do some prayers. > > Acceptance is not cynicism, but not wanting to change the things you can or > to do the only other karma available to you for trying for lesser > pain/recovery/painless transference to next life/etc... could be construed > as cynicism. Cynical behavior can also result from a conclusion that > mantras/prayers do not work or give desired results, especially after the > native or its family has tried it. Please do not fall into its trap. > > Accept her current self and accept death as and when it comes, but do try to > do whatever you can to ease her pain. You can chant Mahamritunjya Mantra for > her, if you want. Do not stop your actions. Acceptance does not mean ceasure > of your actions. > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 9:01 AM, subaseren subaseren wrote: > > > Namasthe Gurus: > > > > Sanjay ji's response to Manoj (about doing a specific prayer for the > > recovery of Manoj's father who is currently in ICU) triggered this long > > standing dilemma in my mind and I hope the gurus here will be able to > > address my dilemma. > > > > First, I have great respect for Sanjay ji as well as others and I would add > > my own prayers for the recovery of manoj's father as well if that could help > > in any way. > > > > > > ************************************************************************\ ***** > > My dilemma: > > > > If indeed death is a certainty for all mortal beings, should we even > > attempt to prolong life and delay death through prayer, notwithstanding the > > fact that the prayer(s) may be answered or go unanswered? What is the " maya " > > in us that makes us believe that we should try to thwart God's own designs > > and intent by praying to the same God to change his own agenda? Are we > > trying to pursue a pure selfish agenda by trying to hold on to something, > > when it is better to let it go? Are we in some sense trying to further our > > individual agenda when perhaps it may be in the best interest to let the > > person pass away peacefully rather than make the person go through > > suffering? > > > > Would it be better to pray to give us the capacity to withstand the > > attendant grief and come out wiser by the experience than trying to avoid > > the grief in the first place? Isn't grief and pain the basic inputs for us > > to grow and be wise? > > > > > > ************************************************************************\ ******** > > These questions come about because of my own personal predicament: > > > > My wife suffers from an undiagnoised serious ailment and all I can see is > > her suffering and I can see that her demise is a distinct possibility in the > > near future. We have gone through the rounds of various doctors and their > > conflicting views on the course of treatment. Every day I see her suffering > > and the collateral suffering that others in the family go through. I have > > done all kinds of religious prayers but there has been no clear solution in > > sight. I have 2 young children as well and I can very well understand what > > it would be to raise them if my spouse passes away. > > > > Earlier I used to pray that my spouse should recover, but nowadays I don't. > > On the rare occassion that I pray now, I pray that if death indeed is the > > answer to the primary suffering and the collateral suffering, I am prepared > > to accept that. I have sort of come to terms with the inevitability of > > death and am more involved in thinking about a life without her. It's not to > > say that I don't love her. My sympathy for her has transcended whatever love > > I have for her. > > > > > > ************************************************************************\ ********** > > > > A lot of people (including my family and friends) have accused me of being > > cynical, fatalistic and even an aethist. I don't know how to counter that. > > Here's the crux of my personal dilemma: > > > > By not praying for my wife's health and refusing to do any kind of > > religious procedures (some are expensive and its efficacy unknown), am I: > > > > 1. Being an aethist? > > 2. Not showing / exhibiting any love for my spouse? > > 3. Not caring for my children's welfare? > > 4. Is acceptance of Reality and not asking it to be changed a sign of > > cynicism? > > > > If the good God was kind enough, would he not have listened to everyone's > > prayers? Maybe God in his infinite wisdom wants to learn acceptance and > > learn to adapt. > > > > > > Gurus, Please let me have your views. Thanks. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Thank you Bharatji for your detailed explanation. I understand your point of view much better now. I appreciate your patience with me and please forgive me if I have been dumb and did ask stupid / meaningless questions. sohamsa , " Bharat - Hindu Astrology " <astrologyhindu wrote: > > Namaste Sri > > I think I answered your direct question in the last paragraph. Please allow > me to explain (in blue color): > > " I recognize the importance of prayer;however my key question is whether > a prayer is the appropriate mechanism for a specific desired > intervention -- that one should use to postpone death of a near and dear > one, > > You are no one to postpone death nor is the astrologer. You or the > astrologer cannot be sure whether a particular prayer will definitely > postpone death or not. The result of your prayer is to be decided by the > Lord. You do your duty and let the result be decided by the Lord. Prayerful > existence is a boon for everything that is, is the Lord. > > Even if through our limited knowledge, we have reasons to believe that a > said person is likely to die young and we specify Mahamritunjya Sanjivni > Mantra, we cannot make an egoistical statement that we postponed death. It > is silly to even think it. We can only be thankful to the Lord for saving > one's life. Similarly, when one seems to beyond all help, our prayer should > be for peace whether in health or in after life. Leave the result to the > Lord, but should we stop praying? We should not. In your situation, you can > pray to the Lord seeking to end your wife's suffering, preferably in this > life and by granting her health. Your prayer is for peace for your loved > one. If it can be achieved in health, so be it. If it can be achieved in > after life, so be it. You should be prepared to accept both results. The > result as decided by the Lord is likely to take your wife's Karmas, both > drisht and adrisht, into account. > > > especially so if the person is going through suffering and that > death can effectively put an end to suffering and if there's no > meaningful remedy even from experts. I would like to hear your view to > this specific question. " > > We cannot decide this for another. She is your wife in this life. She, as an > individual soul, is independent and has her own karmas. What if she wants to > live? What if the life force is very strong? Can we ever justify praying for > her death? That is why we pray to the Lord, and ask for removal of her > suffering and making her happy. > > Your question also asks a hidden question - " Are we interfering with the > Lord's work " ? -> we are not. Every karma brings a result - desired or > undesired. We remain under that karmic principle and pray to make our karma > bring more of the desired result. We cannot egoistically relate the cause of > extension of one's life to our prayers, but to the Lord's grace which may or > may not have been because of our prayers. > > I hope the above helps. > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 7:28 PM, subaseren subaseren wrote: > > > Dear Bharatji: > > > > Thanks for your interesting response detailing the significance of > > prayer and the relevance of acceptance. > > > > I recognize the importance of prayer;however my key question is whether > > a prayer is the appropriate mechanism for a specific desired > > intervention -- that one should use to postpone death of a near and dear > > one, especially so if the person is going through suffering and that > > death can effectively put an end to suffering and if there's no > > meaningful remedy even from experts. I would like to hear your view to > > this specific question. > > > > Despite being a Hindu, I have steadfastly believed in the Biblical > > prayer of " God, give me the courage to change the things I can, the > > power to accept the things I cannot AND THE WISDOM to know the > > difference " . Most of us lack the wisdom part and hence we can't > > discriminate when it is appropriate to seek the change and when to > > accept the change. I certainly never passed the wisdom test. > > > > Since you seem interested to clarify, can I request you to please give > > your views to the various questions please? It will only help me improve > > my understanding and hopefully address the dilemma. > > > > Thanks again. > > > > P.S. I consider anyone and everyone who can dispel my ignorance and show > > me the path to be my Guru. So, you are a guru as well. > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>, " Bharat - > > Hindu Astrology " > > > > astrologyhindu@ wrote: > > > > > > Namaste Sri > > > > > > You have sought a response from " Gurus " . I am not one. If that isn't a > > > hurdle, then, please read below: > > > > > > Results of action are in the hands of Ishwara. Actions, to a limited > > extent, > > > are in our hands. A prayer to the Lord is a recognition of the > > Almighty > > > Lord, a submission of our ego-self that there is a power much greater > > than > > > us, and a karma seeking to rectify something in our lives. > > > > > > The prayer could be: > > > 1. To burn/deflect previous unseen or conscious karma. > > > 2. To gain strength to bear the results of previous karma or some > > future > > > possible karma. > > > 3. To remove hurdles in gaining knowledge by which previous and agami > > karma > > > can be burned. > > > etc... etc.. > > > > > > Specific prayers are specified for some specific results as are > > mentioned in > > > some books. Since results of the prayer karma are also in the hands of > > the > > > Lord, one cannot say that a specific prayer will bring a *definite* > > *certain > > > * result. The astrologer gives the prayer to the best of his/her > > knowledge > > > and hopes that the kind Lord would give beneficial results to the > > client. > > > > > > Having said this, you have asked a question of acceptance. Acceptance > > is one > > > of the most important qualities for gaining true happiness. But, it is > > to be > > > understood. At any given point of time, there are two possibilities, > > namely: > > > > > > 1. Things we can change. > > > 2. Things we cannot change. > > > > > > Accept the things we cannot change. Like we can't change our > > biological > > > father and mother or our birth date. We cannot change others unless > > they > > > want to change themselves. Similarly, you can find things you can > > change. > > > You can change yourself. So Try to change the things you can, if > > needed. In > > > case of your wife's serious trouble, you can continue to accept it > > since you > > > cannot change it. But, the Lord can change it. So pray. The prayers > > will > > > either remove the trouble, or give your wife the strength to bear it > > OR it > > > will give you the joy of praying to the Almighty Lord and improving > > your own > > > karma. In either case, you are not in a loss from prayer. > > > > > > Now comes the question of expensive prayers. I know we astrologers > > sometimes > > > specify such prayers that it becomes very difficult for them to spend > > so > > > much. Herein, if you feel there is a prayer that you can do, please > > continue > > > doing that. Your family can jointly do some prayers. > > > > > > Acceptance is not cynicism, but not wanting to change the things you > > can or > > > to do the only other karma available to you for trying for lesser > > > pain/recovery/painless transference to next life/etc... could be > > construed > > > as cynicism. Cynical behavior can also result from a conclusion that > > > mantras/prayers do not work or give desired results, especially after > > the > > > native or its family has tried it. Please do not fall into its trap. > > > > > > Accept her current self and accept death as and when it comes, but do > > try to > > > do whatever you can to ease her pain. You can chant Mahamritunjya > > Mantra for > > > her, if you want. Do not stop your actions. Acceptance does not mean > > ceasure > > > of your actions. > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 9:01 AM, subaseren subaseren@ wrote: > > > > > > > Namasthe Gurus: > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji's response to Manoj (about doing a specific prayer for the > > > > recovery of Manoj's father who is currently in ICU) triggered this > > long > > > > standing dilemma in my mind and I hope the gurus here will be able > > to > > > > address my dilemma. > > > > > > > > First, I have great respect for Sanjay ji as well as others and I > > would add > > > > my own prayers for the recovery of manoj's father as well if that > > could help > > > > in any way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************************\ \ > > ***** > > > > My dilemma: > > > > > > > > If indeed death is a certainty for all mortal beings, should we even > > > > attempt to prolong life and delay death through prayer, > > notwithstanding the > > > > fact that the prayer(s) may be answered or go unanswered? What is > > the " maya " > > > > in us that makes us believe that we should try to thwart God's own > > designs > > > > and intent by praying to the same God to change his own agenda? Are > > we > > > > trying to pursue a pure selfish agenda by trying to hold on to > > something, > > > > when it is better to let it go? Are we in some sense trying to > > further our > > > > individual agenda when perhaps it may be in the best interest to let > > the > > > > person pass away peacefully rather than make the person go through > > > > suffering? > > > > > > > > Would it be better to pray to give us the capacity to withstand the > > > > attendant grief and come out wiser by the experience than trying to > > avoid > > > > the grief in the first place? Isn't grief and pain the basic inputs > > for us > > > > to grow and be wise? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************************\ \ > > ******** > > > > These questions come about because of my own personal predicament: > > > > > > > > My wife suffers from an undiagnoised serious ailment and all I can > > see is > > > > her suffering and I can see that her demise is a distinct > > possibility in the > > > > near future. We have gone through the rounds of various doctors and > > their > > > > conflicting views on the course of treatment. Every day I see her > > suffering > > > > and the collateral suffering that others in the family go through. I > > have > > > > done all kinds of religious prayers but there has been no clear > > solution in > > > > sight. I have 2 young children as well and I can very well > > understand what > > > > it would be to raise them if my spouse passes away. > > > > > > > > Earlier I used to pray that my spouse should recover, but nowadays I > > don't. > > > > On the rare occassion that I pray now, I pray that if death indeed > > is the > > > > answer to the primary suffering and the collateral suffering, I am > > prepared > > > > to accept that. I have sort of come to terms with the inevitability > > of > > > > death and am more involved in thinking about a life without her. > > It's not to > > > > say that I don't love her. My sympathy for her has transcended > > whatever love > > > > I have for her. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************************\ \ > > ********** > > > > > > > > A lot of people (including my family and friends) have accused me of > > being > > > > cynical, fatalistic and even an aethist. I don't know how to counter > > that. > > > > Here's the crux of my personal dilemma: > > > > > > > > By not praying for my wife's health and refusing to do any kind of > > > > religious procedures (some are expensive and its efficacy unknown), > > am I: > > > > > > > > 1. Being an aethist? > > > > 2. Not showing / exhibiting any love for my spouse? > > > > 3. Not caring for my children's welfare? > > > > 4. Is acceptance of Reality and not asking it to be changed a > > sign of > > > > cynicism? > > > > > > > > If the good God was kind enough, would he not have listened to > > everyone's > > > > prayers? Maybe God in his infinite wisdom wants to learn acceptance > > and > > > > learn to adapt. > > > > > > > > > > > > Gurus, Please let me have your views. Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Namaste SriYou asked very meaningful and important questions. Please accept my best wishes for your family's happiness and health.Thanks and RegardsBharat On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 10:31 PM, subaseren <subaseren wrote: Thank you Bharatji for your detailed explanation. I understand your point of view much better now. I appreciate your patience with me and please forgive me if I have been dumb and did ask stupid / meaningless questions. sohamsa , " Bharat - Hindu Astrology " <astrologyhindu wrote: > > Namaste Sri > > I think I answered your direct question in the last paragraph. Please allow > me to explain (in blue color): > > " I recognize the importance of prayer;however my key question is whether > a prayer is the appropriate mechanism for a specific desired > intervention -- that one should use to postpone death of a near and dear > one, > > You are no one to postpone death nor is the astrologer. You or the > astrologer cannot be sure whether a particular prayer will definitely > postpone death or not. The result of your prayer is to be decided by the > Lord. You do your duty and let the result be decided by the Lord. Prayerful > existence is a boon for everything that is, is the Lord. > > Even if through our limited knowledge, we have reasons to believe that a > said person is likely to die young and we specify Mahamritunjya Sanjivni > Mantra, we cannot make an egoistical statement that we postponed death. It > is silly to even think it. We can only be thankful to the Lord for saving > one's life. Similarly, when one seems to beyond all help, our prayer should > be for peace whether in health or in after life. Leave the result to the > Lord, but should we stop praying? We should not. In your situation, you can > pray to the Lord seeking to end your wife's suffering, preferably in this > life and by granting her health. Your prayer is for peace for your loved > one. If it can be achieved in health, so be it. If it can be achieved in > after life, so be it. You should be prepared to accept both results. The > result as decided by the Lord is likely to take your wife's Karmas, both > drisht and adrisht, into account. > > > especially so if the person is going through suffering and that > death can effectively put an end to suffering and if there's no > meaningful remedy even from experts. I would like to hear your view to > this specific question. " > > We cannot decide this for another. She is your wife in this life. She, as an > individual soul, is independent and has her own karmas. What if she wants to > live? What if the life force is very strong? Can we ever justify praying for > her death? That is why we pray to the Lord, and ask for removal of her > suffering and making her happy. > > Your question also asks a hidden question - " Are we interfering with the > Lord's work " ? -> we are not. Every karma brings a result - desired or > undesired. We remain under that karmic principle and pray to make our karma > bring more of the desired result. We cannot egoistically relate the cause of > extension of one's life to our prayers, but to the Lord's grace which may or > may not have been because of our prayers. > > I hope the above helps. > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 7:28 PM, subaseren subaseren wrote: > > > Dear Bharatji: > > > > Thanks for your interesting response detailing the significance of > > prayer and the relevance of acceptance. > > > > I recognize the importance of prayer;however my key question is whether > > a prayer is the appropriate mechanism for a specific desired > > intervention -- that one should use to postpone death of a near and dear > > one, especially so if the person is going through suffering and that > > death can effectively put an end to suffering and if there's no > > meaningful remedy even from experts. I would like to hear your view to > > this specific question. > > > > Despite being a Hindu, I have steadfastly believed in the Biblical > > prayer of " God, give me the courage to change the things I can, the > > power to accept the things I cannot AND THE WISDOM to know the > > difference " . Most of us lack the wisdom part and hence we can't > > discriminate when it is appropriate to seek the change and when to > > accept the change. I certainly never passed the wisdom test. > > > > Since you seem interested to clarify, can I request you to please give > > your views to the various questions please? It will only help me improve > > my understanding and hopefully address the dilemma. > > > > Thanks again. > > > > P.S. I consider anyone and everyone who can dispel my ignorance and show > > me the path to be my Guru. So, you are a guru as well. > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>, " Bharat - > > Hindu Astrology " > > > > astrologyhindu@ wrote: > > > > > > Namaste Sri > > > > > > You have sought a response from " Gurus " . I am not one. If that isn't a > > > hurdle, then, please read below: > > > > > > Results of action are in the hands of Ishwara. Actions, to a limited > > extent, > > > are in our hands. A prayer to the Lord is a recognition of the > > Almighty > > > Lord, a submission of our ego-self that there is a power much greater > > than > > > us, and a karma seeking to rectify something in our lives. > > > > > > The prayer could be: > > > 1. To burn/deflect previous unseen or conscious karma. > > > 2. To gain strength to bear the results of previous karma or some > > future > > > possible karma. > > > 3. To remove hurdles in gaining knowledge by which previous and agami > > karma > > > can be burned. > > > etc... etc.. > > > > > > Specific prayers are specified for some specific results as are > > mentioned in > > > some books. Since results of the prayer karma are also in the hands of > > the > > > Lord, one cannot say that a specific prayer will bring a *definite* > > *certain > > > * result. The astrologer gives the prayer to the best of his/her > > knowledge > > > and hopes that the kind Lord would give beneficial results to the > > client. > > > > > > Having said this, you have asked a question of acceptance. Acceptance > > is one > > > of the most important qualities for gaining true happiness. But, it is > > to be > > > understood. At any given point of time, there are two possibilities, > > namely: > > > > > > 1. Things we can change. > > > 2. Things we cannot change. > > > > > > Accept the things we cannot change. Like we can't change our > > biological > > > father and mother or our birth date. We cannot change others unless > > they > > > want to change themselves. Similarly, you can find things you can > > change. > > > You can change yourself. So Try to change the things you can, if > > needed. In > > > case of your wife's serious trouble, you can continue to accept it > > since you > > > cannot change it. But, the Lord can change it. So pray. The prayers > > will > > > either remove the trouble, or give your wife the strength to bear it > > OR it > > > will give you the joy of praying to the Almighty Lord and improving > > your own > > > karma. In either case, you are not in a loss from prayer. > > > > > > Now comes the question of expensive prayers. I know we astrologers > > sometimes > > > specify such prayers that it becomes very difficult for them to spend > > so > > > much. Herein, if you feel there is a prayer that you can do, please > > continue > > > doing that. Your family can jointly do some prayers. > > > > > > Acceptance is not cynicism, but not wanting to change the things you > > can or > > > to do the only other karma available to you for trying for lesser > > > pain/recovery/painless transference to next life/etc... could be > > construed > > > as cynicism. Cynical behavior can also result from a conclusion that > > > mantras/prayers do not work or give desired results, especially after > > the > > > native or its family has tried it. Please do not fall into its trap. > > > > > > Accept her current self and accept death as and when it comes, but do > > try to > > > do whatever you can to ease her pain. You can chant Mahamritunjya > > Mantra for > > > her, if you want. Do not stop your actions. Acceptance does not mean > > ceasure > > > of your actions. > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 9:01 AM, subaseren subaseren@ wrote: > > > > > > > Namasthe Gurus: > > > > > > > > Sanjay ji's response to Manoj (about doing a specific prayer for the > > > > recovery of Manoj's father who is currently in ICU) triggered this > > long > > > > standing dilemma in my mind and I hope the gurus here will be able > > to > > > > address my dilemma. > > > > > > > > First, I have great respect for Sanjay ji as well as others and I > > would add > > > > my own prayers for the recovery of manoj's father as well if that > > could help > > > > in any way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************************\ \ > > ***** > > > > My dilemma: > > > > > > > > If indeed death is a certainty for all mortal beings, should we even > > > > attempt to prolong life and delay death through prayer, > > notwithstanding the > > > > fact that the prayer(s) may be answered or go unanswered? What is > > the " maya " > > > > in us that makes us believe that we should try to thwart God's own > > designs > > > > and intent by praying to the same God to change his own agenda? Are > > we > > > > trying to pursue a pure selfish agenda by trying to hold on to > > something, > > > > when it is better to let it go? Are we in some sense trying to > > further our > > > > individual agenda when perhaps it may be in the best interest to let > > the > > > > person pass away peacefully rather than make the person go through > > > > suffering? > > > > > > > > Would it be better to pray to give us the capacity to withstand the > > > > attendant grief and come out wiser by the experience than trying to > > avoid > > > > the grief in the first place? Isn't grief and pain the basic inputs > > for us > > > > to grow and be wise? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************************\ \ > > ******** > > > > These questions come about because of my own personal predicament: > > > > > > > > My wife suffers from an undiagnoised serious ailment and all I can > > see is > > > > her suffering and I can see that her demise is a distinct > > possibility in the > > > > near future. We have gone through the rounds of various doctors and > > their > > > > conflicting views on the course of treatment. Every day I see her > > suffering > > > > and the collateral suffering that others in the family go through. I > > have > > > > done all kinds of religious prayers but there has been no clear > > solution in > > > > sight. I have 2 young children as well and I can very well > > understand what > > > > it would be to raise them if my spouse passes away. > > > > > > > > Earlier I used to pray that my spouse should recover, but nowadays I > > don't. > > > > On the rare occassion that I pray now, I pray that if death indeed > > is the > > > > answer to the primary suffering and the collateral suffering, I am > > prepared > > > > to accept that. I have sort of come to terms with the inevitability > > of > > > > death and am more involved in thinking about a life without her. > > It's not to > > > > say that I don't love her. My sympathy for her has transcended > > whatever love > > > > I have for her. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************************\ \ > > ********** > > > > > > > > A lot of people (including my family and friends) have accused me of > > being > > > > cynical, fatalistic and even an aethist. I don't know how to counter > > that. > > > > Here's the crux of my personal dilemma: > > > > > > > > By not praying for my wife's health and refusing to do any kind of > > > > religious procedures (some are expensive and its efficacy unknown), > > am I: > > > > > > > > 1. Being an aethist? > > > > 2. Not showing / exhibiting any love for my spouse? > > > > 3. Not caring for my children's welfare? > > > > 4. Is acceptance of Reality and not asking it to be changed a > > sign of > > > > cynicism? > > > > > > > > If the good God was kind enough, would he not have listened to > > everyone's > > > > prayers? Maybe God in his infinite wisdom wants to learn acceptance > > and > > > > learn to adapt. > > > > > > > > > > > > Gurus, Please let me have your views. Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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