Char Karka-to sundeep

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Dear Sundeep

 

I will give my views here. As you know i dont know a bit of sanskrit, so i will refrain from even attempting to decode the shlokas.

 

My point will be on the line of practical application of the concept.

 

8 charakarakas makes sense, because, when more than one planet is in the same degree, we cannot have rahu occupying every slot made vacant.

 

What i mean is that say in a chart, four planets occupy the same degree as AK( i know charts) where it has happened, we cannot have rahu occupying every second slot just to fulfill the condition. And what for those charts where multiple planets are vying for a slot. For example, two planets in the same degree as AK, and then two planets in the same degree as BK.

 

By conjecture or by happenstance, no two planets can be in the same minute. Even if they are in the same minutes, they cannot be in the same second. There wll always be a thin line of difference.

So dividing planets portfolio on minutes is done only for " brief period of time " . That is after a period of time, the second planet takes over the portfolio, and the Sthira karaka comes and sits on the vacant slot. Since rahu doesnot have a body, it cannot be a sthira karaka. It can only be a charakaraka.

 

There are calculations that can prove this. It is like someone dying, and other taking over, or some one vacating and another taking over the seat.

 

In such cases, we go by traditional wisdom of " sthira karaka balancing out the negative reaction of chara karaka replacement "

 

Anyways, i know that what i put forth will be trashed because of lack of any supporting shlokas, but i can give practical examples, where this has happened.

 

regards

partha

 

 

 

On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 9:28 AM, <sarbani wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Sundeep,Sanjayji has been out of Delhi since 20th October busy riding camels and photographing black bucks and Damoiselle Cranes. He has had no internet connection and is blissfully unaware of these posts and

debates. He will return to Delhi...and to internet and telephone contact...after 4th November.Best regards,Sarbani RathQuoting vedicastrostudent <vedicastrostudent:

> Dear Narasimhaji (and Vistiji),> While I cant question Narasimhaji's scholarship, it is clear that> these kind of issues question the very root of parampara knowledge> if not astrology itself. The silence (from SJC Gurus and Sanjayji)

> surprises me.>> In scientific subjects, if a new theory comes up that contradicts> an old one, it must either be a generalization of the old theory> (e.g. Einstein's theory of relativity (new) is not in contradiction

> with Newton's theory (old) at speeds far less than the speed of> light), or at the very least it must explain why the old theory> correctly predicted in some cases, or if the old theory didnt even

> do that, then why the old theory's observations were wrong (since> those wrong observations supported the old theory).>> In this case, Narasimhaji has simply thrown the entire CK> replacement theory into the trash can. Which immediately begs the

> question: So are Sanjayji's explanations of Alan Leo's and Mahatma> Gandhi's charts, in his AK paper, wrong? Narasimhaji, after your new> found knowledge, you must either conclude that the events in one's

> life (i.e. total change of motivation and direction in life, not> present in most people's life) that Sanjayji has hitherto explained> using AK replacement, do not exist i.e Sanjayji was merely deluding

> himself, OR that they are explained by some other astrological> combination. So far, in the new scheme of things, you havent> volunteered any astrological combination that explains ALL and ONLY> those events that have so far been explained by Sanjayji as CK

> replacement. I quote directly from Sanjayji's paper, Section 3.1 -> " The carakaraka being replaced gives us an idea of the area of life> where a major unheaval is expected to occur while the slot, which is

> falling vacant, needs the strong support of Lord Siva in the form of> a strong sthira karaka so that the concerned relation/aspect of life> is not disturbed or destroyed. <some omitted>. The spiritual impact

> on the person is very strong if the AK, AMK or BK are involved.. " .> Please clarify your position on this.>> And relatedly, note that all this suddenly puts a lot of parampara> knowledge in question. An average person like me treats parampara

> knowledge with respect because one naturally assumes that this> knowledge has been tested over the generations. As an example, how> do I build confidence that one day some one wont come up with a key

> undiscovered precursor verse of Parasara that unambiguously says " In> all my remaining verses, when I say Rahu I actually mean Jupiter and> when I say Jupiter, I actually mean Rahu " , and in doing so trashes

> all current knowledge. The way I build that confidence is that I see> that the current knowledge WORKS IN PRACTICE. Since it WORKS IN> PRACTICE, I know that the probability of discovering such a verse is

> next to nil. And Narasimhaji, now that you have thrown CK> replacement (and earlier Drig Dasa calculation), into the trash can,> it makes me wonder - Were Sanjay Rathji, his Guru Pt Kasinath> Rathji, or his Guru Pt Jagannath Rathji, and their Gurus, were they

> all using this knowledge previously AT ALL or NOT? Or if they were,> were they just deluding themselves? Were they simply predicting> correctly because of their spiritual strength? If so, we might as

> well all give up astrology, and throw some tea leaves up in the air> and predict using spiritual strength, no?>> Regards,>> Sundeep>>>>>> sohamsa , " Narasimha Rao " <pvr wrote:

>>>> Namaste Visti,>>>> (1) First regarding Jaimini: Jaimini did NOT deviate from Parasara> in>> whatever he said. Though he did not specifically say how to choose>> between 7 and 8 planets, we have to remember that Jaimini Sutram is

>> not a self-sufficient text and Jaimini did say " siddhamanyat " at> the>> beginning. We have to fill in a lot of blanks using other sources.>> Parasara would be a perfect choice.

>>>> In fact, Vriddha Karikas say the following:>>>> ravyaadi shani paryantaaH bhavanti sapta kaarakaaH |>> aMsha saamye grahau dvau ca raahvantaan gaNayet dvija ||>>

>> (Meaning: Planets starting from Sun and going upto Saturn become> seven>> significators. And, O brahmin, if two planets are in equality of>> degrees, one may count ending with Rahu.)

>>>> This is pretty much what Parasara said, in slightly different> words!>> After all, when Jaimini leaves one detail out, it is logical to get>> that detail from Parasara.>>

>> (2) Regarding Mahadeva: Mahadeva is great scholar, just as Dr BV>> Raman, Sri KN Rao and Pt Sanjay Rath are. However, this great> scholar>> from mid-to-late 1800's is hardly an authority on par with Maharshi

>> Parasara. We can use him to interpret Parasara when there is an>> ambiguity in Parasara that was clarified by Mahadeva. When> Parasara is>> clear that there and Mahadeva deviates, there is no reason to give

>> preference to Mahadeva.>>>> Regarding when to use 7 and when to use 8 planets, I believe> Parasara>> is clear and vriddha karikas point in the same direction.>>>> Krishnaarpanamastu,

>> Narasimha>> ------------------------->> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

>> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana>> Spirituality:

>> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net>> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

>> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org>> ------------------------->>>> sohamsa , Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:

>> >>> > हरे राम कृषॠण>> > Dear Narasimha,>> > What is your take on that neither Maharishi Jaimini Krta Upadesa> Sutram>> > (slokas 1.1.10-1.1.19) nor Sri Mahadeva Krtam Jataka Tattva

> (sloka>> 1.65)>> > indicate nor hint in anyway towards this special circumstance of> Rahu>> > only entering the Charakaraka scheme once two planets are at the> same

>> > degree?>> >>> > Maharishi Jaimini, with his otherwise very brief sutras, only> speaks of>> > two schemes namely seven or eighth charakarakas and after> listing out

>> > eight charakaraka later states that the putrakaraka becomes one> with>> the>> > Matrikaraka, which is obviously only the case in the scheme of> seven>> > chara karaka.

>> > If he wishes to be this explicit then why didn't he mention this>> special>> > condition of including Rahu only when planets occupied the same> degree?>> >>> > Further, Mahadeva's Jataka Tattvam also does not even entertain

> an idea>> > of using seven Chara Karakas, wherein he when mentioning the same>> simply>> > lists out all eight Chara Karakas by name, without any> conditions.>> >

>> > Looking forward to your reply.>> > Yours sincerely, Visti Larsen>> > ---------->> > www: http://srigaruda.com

>> > @: visti@>> >>> > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao skrev:>> > >>> > > >> > >>> > > Namaste Sir,>> > >>> > > > Seven

>> > > > (7 )CHAR KARKA SCHEME IS FOR MUNDANE CHARTS,>> > > > 5. 8 CHAR KARKA SCHEME IS FOR LIVING BEING .>> > >>> > > If you or anyone can show me the verse of Parasara that says

> the>> > > above, we can discuss your views further.>> > >>> > > When mentioning the two schemes, Parasara clearly said that> the>> > > 8-karaka scheme is used when two planets are in the same

> degree. He>> > > never talked about " living beings " vs " mundane charts " .> Instead he>> > > talked about matching the degrees of planets to decide 7 vs 8> karaka

>> > > schemes.>> > >>> > > A clear guideline of Parasara has been ignored and a big>> hypothesis is>> > > made instead. Such a theory with a weak foundation fails to

>> convince me.>> > >>> > > Best regards,>> > > Narasimha>> > > -------------------------> --->> > > Do a Short Homam Yourself:

> http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam>> > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam>

>> > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself:> http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana>> > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana>

>> > > Spirituality: >> > > <>

>> > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net>> > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net>

>> > > Free Jyotish software (Windows):> http://www.VedicAstrologer.org>> > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org>

>> > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website:> http://www.SriJagannath.org>> > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org>

>> > > -------------------------> --->> > >>> > > ->> > > ** Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@>

>> > > *To:* Narasimha Rao <pvr@>>> > > *Cc:* vedic astrology

>> > > <vedic astrology > ;>> > > Indian_Astrology_Group_Daily_Digest

>> > >> <Indian_Astrology_Group_Daily_Digest > ;>> > > sohamsa <sohamsa >

>> > > *Sent:* Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:43 AM>> > > *Subject:* Char Karka>> > >>> > > Dear Friend,>> > > Why bring Pt. Sanjay Rath , place your views independently.

>> > > I have again gone through the article of Rath ji and your> article>> > > carefully.I got the impression , that you are try to> advocate your>> > > views instead of trying to understand the real intent of

> BPH.>> > > I may like to bring following points to your kind> attention:>> > > 1. Rath ji is your guru , never show disrespect to your> guru.>> > > Such attitude will bring your downfall. Rishi

> Yajvalkya ,Jaimni>> > > sometimes taken different line of thinking , but with the>> permission>> > > and with due respect to his guru.I think you are in USA> too>> long.

>> > > that is why you do not like to stick these simple norms.>> > > 2. Parasara had refereed higher authorities in BPHS> KIKE 'SEER>> GARG'>> > > 3. BPHS INTENDS THAT THERE ARE TWO DISTINCT

>> > > SCHEMES OF CHAR KARKAS-7 AS WELL AS 8>> > > 4 In 7 char karka scheme Rahu is not considered .However ,> if two>> > > planets>> > > are same zodiac degree in their respective signs, then

> char>> > > Karka replacement>> > > occurs and Rahu takes its place as sthir Karka of> confusion and>> > > deceit.Seven>> > > (7 )CHAR KARKA SCHEME IS FOR MUNDANE CHARTS, THAT IS WHY

>> > > PUTRA kARKA IS ABSENT AND RAHU AS STHIR kARKA DOES NOT>> > > REPRESENT ANY LIVING PERSON BUT DECEIT ETC.>> > > 5. 8 CHAR KARKA SCHEME IS FOR LIVING BEING . BPHS>> > > CLEARLY STATES 8 kARKA IN SERIAL ORDER-AK,AMK,

>> > > BK, MK, PITK,PUTK,GK AND DK.THERE IS ABSOLUTELY>> > > ON AMBIGUITY OR CONFUSION.>> > > 6. kindly TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE PURPORT AND REASON>> > > BEHIND REPLACEMENT OF CHAR KARKA WITH STHIR KARKA.

>> > > THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT AND CRUCIAL TO UNDERSTAND THE> SIGNIFICANCE>> > > ,AS TO WHY CHAR KARKA ARE REPLACED BY STHIR>> > > KARKAS.IN FACT THIS CHAPTER OF BPHS DEALS IN ALL KINDS OF

>> > > KARKAS ACCEPT NAISARGIKA KARKAS. THE SLOKAS IN THIS> CHAPTER ARE>> > > LIKE SUTRA AND LOT OF CO-RELATION IS REQUIRED TO DECIPHER>> > > THEM. CHAR KARKA INDICATE THE HELP AND SUSTENANCE PROVIDED

>> > > BY OTHER LIVING BEING OR LACK OF IT DUE TO THE ACTIONS OF> PAST>> > > BIRTHS.STHIR KARKA INDICATE WHEN SUCH LIVING BEING WILL>> > > PUT TO GRIEF .>> > > 6. I urge , kindly read the article written by Rathji . It

> will>> > > show the light.>> > > Regards,>> > >>> > > G.K.GOEL>> > > Ph: 09350311433>> > > Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR>> > > NEW DELHI-110 076

>> > > INDIA>>>>>