Pronunciation of mantras

November 7, 2008

Namaste SS,

Sabda (loosely translated as sound or vibration) has 4 levels - vaikhari, madhyama, pastanti and para. When moving parts of our gross body (e.g. lips) move the gross bodies of objects around us (particles in air) and this vibration is perceived by the senses attached to the gross bodies of people around us (e.g. ears), that vibration is at the level of vaikhari. When we are talking about pronunciation of mantras, we are essentially talking about vaikhari.

But we are not just our sthoola sareera (gross body). There is also a sookshma sareera (subtle body), kaarana sareera (causal body) and finally MahaKaarana sareera (cosmic body). Just as vibration in sthoola sareera creates vaikhari, vibrations in other levels also create vibrations at other levels.

The image you have in mind when you chant a mantra and the thoughts you are thinking when you chant a mantra go towards shaping the subtle vibrations behind a mantra. They vibrate the space around you at the subtle level.

Once you cause of vibration of space around you (at gross or subtle level), it is there. One with an ability to perceive it can perceive it. Of course, the deity of your mantra does not receive just the gross vibration produced by you, but receives and responds to the entirety of the vibrations produced by you at all levels.

Vaikhari is the least powerful level and para is the most powerful level.

All the scholarly preoccupation with the correct pronunciation etc is a little trite. The devotion, sense of surrender and the ability to create the correct mental images and correct thoughts to accompany the chanting of the mantra are far more important.

Of course, it is helpful to pronounce the mantra correctly too. I am not saying ignore the correct pronunciation. Do your BEST to get it correct. But all I am saying is that that plays a small part and a bigger part is played by other factors which are often ignored. Do NOT ignore those.

Secondly, being a child as opposed to an arrogant scholar helps with gods. If you can be like a child who is lost by parents at a fair and crying for them, it is easier to find god. As a matter of fact, we ARE almost like a clueless little children left by parents at the fair (of samsara)!

Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> Dear Arpad,> > This is a very interesting acount you have given. It also raises a > rhetoric question whether water ceases to exist as water if called > paani, aab etc. This is so far as gross items go. > > For mantras that act at a subtle level there can be 2 veiws or more:> > 1. Correct pronunciation is a must (why then is there emphasis on the > same while reciting vedas etc.) - or else rakshati and bhakshati can > yeild different results (wonder if someone really evaluated that)> > 2. Meaning/Essence of the mantra should be understood and the effect > thus proceeds from there. > > Both veiws may be right in their own way. > > A prayer may have no words, yet can be effective.> > Example of Valmiki reciting Mara-Mara is popular - whichever category > that one falls in!> > Thanx for your time.> > Best Regards,> SS

November 7, 2008

Hare Rama Krishna,

Dear SS and Narasimha,

Perhaps some tidbits from my encounter with one expert in the Mantra shastra will throw some additional light upon the erudite and scholarly commentary offered by Narasimha.

I have come to the study of Sanskrit and Mantras from the "other end" as it were. Sound by sound. Letter (akshara) by letter.The building blocks of creation- as Guruji explained to me.

Yes, Guruji. He was born in 1888 (!), a great Bengali yogi, by the name of Janardan Paramahamsa. He was a very fierce ascetic and a lifelong brahmachari.In his youth he was a terrorist( at least the british called him this way) but to many people he was a freedom fighter. (my version also)Upon taking disksha from his Guru,(gave up the freedom fighting days)and he has retired into the jungles for some 30 years to do continous saddhana. According to some, he did't even talk to anyone for this period of time, as he has lived totally alone.

It is from him that I have learned what I know about the building blocks of the Universe- the aksharas. He has called this Vidya variously Dvani yoga, Kriya Yoga, Shabda yoga etc. Labels did't matter too much though.

He has intiated us (one by one) into the science of using Bija mantras properly. Each bija Mantra required a separate diksha. The Science (Vidya) is as exact as it possibly can be. Some Bija mantras "produced" only in inhalation, some others, only in exhalation.The exact technique leaves nothing to the imagination.(In fact imagination is discouraged). The exact technique is a secret, it was and never will be published.Knowing it however, enables one, when reading various Tantras, to understand what the writers have intended.

Many Bija Mantras were taught, to some Saraswati Bija, others,Shiva Bija,yet othersLakshmi,Durga,Varma,occasionally Krodha,Kinkini,Kama, Etc

Guruji was up by 3 30 am every morning, and we naturally followed his example. We did saddhana all day. Guruji had awesome siddhis, which manifested with "alarming" ease, nearly all the time.Naturally.His prescriprion for every problem in life, whether marital,financial,carrier or anything else was: SADDHANA. MORE SADDHANA.

Now to the 4 levels of sound- as described by scholarly Narasimha.

One of us was freshly intitiated into the use and mysteries of Saraswati Bija. Guruji usually asked for fruits and flowers and some coins (Guru dakshina), then put up the picture of his Gurus (going back to the great Matang Rishi), and gave the diksha.He had his own way of doing things, such as opening the spine (by his touch) and then almost inaudibly whispering the Mantra into the right ear. (please take note: Panchang/Yoga/Hearing).

He was nearly 90 when we met….

Then the sadhak started doing Saraswati saddhana. All the time.

Through Guruji's grace a few days(!) afterward there came a moment when the Mantra just exploded.Exploded. There is no other ways to describe it.Sonic boom. Of course ordinary consciousness is shifted,enlarged at this moment. The sense of ego, "I" (how laughable)is gone, like a bad dream.The Bija sound engulfs the meditator, envelopes the whole being. All is sound.The Saraswati Bija then starts to reveal itself, it's true sound more and more. AIM- as how we pronounce it –(Vaikhari level) is just a faint, VERY faint replica, a shadow of the real thing. Then, Saraswati Bija will shift yet another "gear" upward, to the next level. Here the multitude of sounds becomes a single sweet sound- (emanating from the heart region),and at this level, of course consciousness shift also into a different mode altogether.

When the sadhak "came back" to his normal everyday consciousness and related all this to Guruji, he just smiled and simply said:"Oh, you have heard Saraswati play her Veena"…

(Technically, the explosion is a sign of prana and apana uniting. It is unmistakable.Can be frightening in the beginning as it is very loud.)

Guruji discouraged all mental speculations about the philosophical nature of Mantras, especially Bija Mantras. Saddhana…more Saddhana was his constant advice.

As always, he was right.

I sincerely hope though that the small explanation above is somewhat useful, looking at the same thing, from a different angle.

With deep respect to all:

AJ

sohamsa , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr wrote:>> Namaste SS,> > Sabda (loosely translated as sound or vibration) has 4 levels - vaikhari, madhyama, pastanti and para. When moving parts of our gross body (e.g. lips) move the gross bodies of objects around us (particles in air) and this vibration is perceived by the senses attached to the gross bodies of people around us (e.g. ears), that vibration is at the level of vaikhari. When we are talking about pronunciation of mantras, we are essentially talking about vaikhari.> > But we are not just our sthoola sareera (gross body). There is also a sookshma sareera (subtle body), kaarana sareera (causal body) and finally MahaKaarana sareera (cosmic body). Just as vibration in sthoola sareera creates vaikhari, vibrations in other levels also create vibrations at other levels.> > The image you have in mind when you chant a mantra and the thoughts you are thinking when you chant a mantra go towards shaping the subtle vibrations behind a mantra. They vibrate the space around you at the subtle level.> > Once you cause of vibration of space around you (at gross or subtle level), it is there. One with an ability to perceive it can perceive it. Of course, the deity of your mantra does not receive just the gross vibration produced by you, but receives and responds to the entirety of the vibrations produced by you at all levels.> > Vaikhari is the least powerful level and para is the most powerful level.> > All the scholarly preoccupation with the correct pronunciation etc is a little trite. The devotion, sense of surrender and the ability to create the correct mental images and correct thoughts to accompany the chanting of the mantra are far more important.> > Of course, it is helpful to pronounce the mantra correctly too. I am not saying ignore the correct pronunciation. Do your BEST to get it correct. But all I am saying is that that plays a small part and a bigger part is played by other factors which are often ignored. Do NOT ignore those.> > Secondly, being a child as opposed to an arrogant scholar helps with gods. If you can be like a child who is lost by parents at a fair and crying for them, it is easier to find god. As a matter of fact, we ARE almost like a clueless little children left by parents at the fair (of samsara)!> > Best regards,> Narasimha> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana> Spirituality: > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > > Dear Arpad,> > > > This is a very interesting acount you have given. It also raises a > > rhetoric question whether water ceases to exist as water if called > > paani, aab etc. This is so far as gross items go. > > > > For mantras that act at a subtle level there can be 2 veiws or more:> > > > 1. Correct pronunciation is a must (why then is there emphasis on the > > same while reciting vedas etc.) - or else rakshati and bhakshati can > > yeild different results (wonder if someone really evaluated that)> > > > 2. Meaning/Essence of the mantra should be understood and the effect > > thus proceeds from there. > > > > Both veiws may be right in their own way. > > > > A prayer may have no words, yet can be effective.> > > > Example of Valmiki reciting Mara-Mara is popular - whichever category > > that one falls in!> > > > Thanx for your time.> > > > Best Regards,> > SS>

November 9, 2008

|om|Dear Arpad Joo, namaste

A long and interesting email...on reading (and re-reading) this email, I realize that your entire life is all about sound and its origins. In an analogous way, my life too is all about sound but there the similarity ends.

If it is possible, could you shed some light on the imagery of Goddess Saraswati playing her veena i.e., why is Goddess Saraswati depicted so?

best regards

HariOn Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 12:19 PM, Arpad Joo <panchasila wrote:

Hare Rama Krishna,

Dear SS and Narasimha,

Perhaps some tidbits from my encounter with one expert in the Mantra shastra will throw some additional light upon the erudite and scholarly commentary offered by Narasimha.

I have come to the study of Sanskrit and Mantras from the " other end " as it were. Sound by sound. Letter (akshara) by letter.The building blocks of creation- as Guruji explained to me.

Yes, Guruji. He was born in 1888 (!), a great Bengali yogi, by the name of Janardan Paramahamsa. He was a very fierce ascetic and a lifelong brahmachari.In his youth he was a terrorist( at least the british called him this way) but to many people he was a freedom fighter. (my version also)Upon taking disksha from his Guru,(gave up the freedom fighting days)and he has retired into the jungles for some 30 years to do continous saddhana. According to some, he did't even talk to anyone for this period of time, as he has lived totally alone.

It is from him that I have learned what I know about the building blocks of the Universe- the aksharas. He has called this Vidya variously Dvani yoga, Kriya Yoga, Shabda yoga etc. Labels did't matter too much though.

He has intiated us (one by one) into the science of using Bija mantras properly. Each bija Mantra required a separate diksha. The Science (Vidya) is as exact as it possibly can be. Some Bija mantras " produced " only in inhalation, some others, only in exhalation.The exact technique leaves nothing to the imagination.(In fact imagination is discouraged). The exact technique is a secret, it was and never will be published.Knowing it however, enables one, when reading various Tantras, to understand what the writers have intended.

Many Bija Mantras were taught, to some Saraswati Bija, others,Shiva Bija,yet othersLakshmi,Durga,Varma,occasionally Krodha,Kinkini,Kama, Etc

Guruji was up by 3 30 am every morning, and we naturally followed his example. We did saddhana all day. Guruji had awesome siddhis, which manifested with " alarming " ease, nearly all the time.Naturally.His prescriprion for every problem in life, whether marital,financial,carrier or anything else was: SADDHANA. MORE SADDHANA.

Now to the 4 levels of sound- as described by scholarly Narasimha.

One of us was freshly intitiated into the use and mysteries of Saraswati Bija. Guruji usually asked for fruits and flowers and some coins (Guru dakshina), then put up the picture of his Gurus (going back to the great Matang Rishi), and gave the diksha.He had his own way of doing things, such as opening the spine (by his touch) and then almost inaudibly whispering the Mantra into the right ear. (please take note: Panchang/Yoga/Hearing).

He was nearly 90 when we met….

Then the sadhak started doing Saraswati saddhana. All the time.

Through Guruji's grace a few days(!) afterward there came a moment when the Mantra just exploded.Exploded. There is no other ways to describe it.Sonic boom. Of course ordinary consciousness is shifted,enlarged at this moment. The sense of ego, " I " (how laughable)is gone, like a bad dream.The Bija sound engulfs the meditator, envelopes the whole being. All is sound.The Saraswati Bija then starts to reveal itself, it's true sound more and more. AIM- as how we pronounce it –(Vaikhari level) is just a faint, VERY faint replica, a shadow of the real thing. Then, Saraswati Bija will shift yet another " gear " upward, to the next level. Here the multitude of sounds becomes a single sweet sound- (emanating from the heart region),and at this level, of course consciousness shift also into a different mode altogether.

When the sadhak " came back " to his normal everyday consciousness and related all this to Guruji, he just smiled and simply said: " Oh, you have heard Saraswati play her Veena " …

(Technically, the explosion is a sign of prana and apana uniting. It is unmistakable.Can be frightening in the beginning as it is very loud.)

Guruji discouraged all mental speculations about the philosophical nature of Mantras, especially Bija Mantras. Saddhana…more Saddhana was his constant advice.

As always, he was right.

I sincerely hope though that the small explanation above is somewhat useful, looking at the same thing, from a different angle.

With deep respect to all:

AJ

November 9, 2008

Dear Arpad ji

Namaste. I thank you sincerely for sharing this. Just one point

that perhaps you may have overlooked about the teachings – it is

definitely foolish to even contemplate to speculate on meaning of the bija and

other such things *during the course of the sadhana* ...I think it is

this latter part that Guruji Janardhana Paramhamsa may have tried to emphasize

as the mantra shastra books explain in great detail the formation of the bijas,

their special names which have so much meaning. Every akshara of the bija

nighantu has multiple approaches depending on the path – Vaishnava,

Shaiva, Shakta. Its all so wonderfully divined and then the meaning only adds a

flavour, perhaps a another way to understand that the banyan tree was in the

seed ... although from the viewpoint of sadhana it is really not at all

necessary.

The brain has a strange way of seeking rational answers when

nothing is forthcoming. For example for all the *sleep on floor* and *take

bath in normal water* rules I rationalised, much much later, that it was

all about not getting entangled with making beds, using warm water which

soothes as opposed to cold water that awakens the nerves while normal water

keeps the body at the best temperature for the weather. Another thing perhaps

was that the mind would waste too much energy in a focus that was actually yet

another hindrance or disturbance to the sadhana. My Gurudev was a simple Brahmin

from Jagannath Puri but was quite strict about all this. Bhagavan Mishra was a

great Durga sadhaka and taought me the Mahavidya (at least two of them).

I suggest you try Niryana Shula dasa for the spiritual quest and

sadhana. It shows the transformations to the being. When the dasa rasi aspects

the lagna, you will find the shakti associated with the planets getting

invoked. The highest experience comes when the niryana shula dasha moves

to signs looking at the chara atmakaraka.

Niryana Shoola Dasa (death): Sanjay Rath

Maha Dasas:

Li: 1963-08-07 - 1970-08-07

Sc: 1970-08-07 - 1978-08-07

Sg: 1978-08-07 - 1987-08-08 – has exalted

Ketu (trim graha bija) ...aspects the lagna ...Saraswati, Tara

Cp: 1987-08-08 - 1994-08-07 – has AK

Saturn as subhapati in DhanisTha nakshatra (Mars) ...you can easily guess

Aq: 1994-08-07 - 2002-08-07

Pi: 2002-08-07 - 2011-08-08 –Virgo

antardasa – Diksha in the Sri Sarada Math at the holy feet of Gurvi

Shraddhaprana ambe – this is Lagna with Jupiter in it. A life

transforming experience in which she talked in chaste Bengali with me and made

me talk to her in chaste oriya...conversation continued for 2-3 hours and I

understood every word. She does not know Oriya, not the pure oriya we speak in

Puri. After that when I returned to normalcy...I am still shocked as I cannot

understand Bengali well but am improving. Recently I decided to learn this

language. Others present were shell shocked to see what was transpiring.

My most important lesson of life – Language is not a

barrier with God and it answered my all time question – What language is

God going to speak in when I meet Him after death?’ That was a question

from my youth and was answered without even asking.

Ar: 2011-08-08 - 2018-08-07

Ta: 2018-08-07 - 2026-08-08 – I will

change permanently...so technically I still have about a decade or so to finish

my major jyotish teachings world wide. Thereafter withdrawal is sure to come.

Lets see what happens. Its tough to predict for oneself.

Ge: 2026-08-08 - 2035-08-08

Cn: 2035-08-08 - 2042-08-08

Le: 2042-08-08 - 2050-08-08

Vi: 2050-08-08 - 2059-08-08

Sanjay Rath

sohamsa

[sohamsa ] On Behalf Of Arpad Joo

07 November 2008 12:19

sohamsa

Re: Pronunciation of mantras

Hare Rama Krishna,

Dear

SS and Narasimha,

Perhaps

some tidbits from my encounter with one expert in the Mantra shastra will throw

some additional light upon the erudite and scholarly commentary offered by

Narasimha.

I

have come to the study of Sanskrit and Mantras from the " other end "

as it were. Sound by sound. Letter (akshara) by letter.The building blocks of

creation- as Guruji explained to me.

Yes,

Guruji. He was born in 1888 (!), a great Bengali yogi, by the name of Janardan

Paramahamsa. He was a very fierce ascetic and a lifelong brahmachari.In his

youth he was a terrorist( at least the british called him this way) but to many

people he was a freedom fighter. (my version also)Upon taking disksha from his

Guru,(gave up the freedom fighting days)and he has retired into the

jungles for some 30 years to do continous saddhana. According to some, he did't

even talk to anyone for this period of time, as he has lived totally alone.

It

is from him that I have learned what I know about the building blocks of the

Universe- the aksharas. He has called this Vidya variously Dvani yoga, Kriya

Yoga, Shabda yoga etc. Labels did't matter too much though.

He

has intiated us (one by one) into the science of using Bija mantras properly.

Each bija Mantra required a separate diksha. The Science (Vidya) is as exact

as it possibly can be. Some Bija mantras " produced " only in

inhalation, some others, only in exhalation.The exact technique leaves nothing

to the imagination.(In fact imagination is discouraged). The exact technique is

a secret, it was and never will be published.Knowing it however, enables one,

when reading various Tantras, to understand what the writers have intended.

Many

Bija Mantras were taught, to some Saraswati Bija, others,Shiva Bija,yet

othersLakshmi,Durga,Varma,occasionally Krodha,Kinkini,Kama, Etc

Guruji

was up by 3 30 am every morning, and we naturally followed his example. We did

saddhana all day. Guruji had awesome siddhis, which manifested with

" alarming " ease, nearly all the time.Naturally.His prescriprion for

every problem in life, whether marital,financial,carrier or anything else was:

SADDHANA. MORE SADDHANA.

Now

to the 4 levels of sound- as described by scholarly Narasimha.

One

of us was freshly intitiated into the use and mysteries of Saraswati Bija.

Guruji usually asked for fruits and flowers and some coins (Guru dakshina),

then put up the picture of his Gurus (going back to the great Matang Rishi),

and gave the diksha.He had his own way of doing things, such as opening the

spine (by his touch) and then almost inaudibly whispering the Mantra into the

right ear. (please take note: Panchang/Yoga/Hearing).

He

was nearly 90 when we met….

Then

the sadhak started doing Saraswati saddhana. All the time.

Through

Guruji's grace a few days(!) afterward there came a

moment when the Mantra just exploded.Exploded. There is no other ways to

describe it.Sonic boom. Of course ordinary consciousness is shifted,enlarged at

this moment. The sense of ego, " I " (how laughable)is gone, like a bad

dream.The Bija sound engulfs the meditator, envelopes the whole being. All is

sound.The Saraswati Bija then starts to reveal itself, it's true

sound more and more. AIM- as how we

pronounce it –(Vaikhari level) is just a faint, VERY faint replica, a

shadow of the real thing. Then, Saraswati Bija will shift yet another

" gear " upward, to the next level. Here the multitude of sounds becomes

a single sweet sound- (emanating from the heart region),and at this level, of

course consciousness shift also into a different mode altogether.

When

the sadhak " came back " to his normal everyday consciousness and

related all this to Guruji, he just smiled and simply said: " Oh, you have

heard Saraswati play her Veena " …

(Technically,

the explosion is a sign of prana and apana uniting. It is unmistakable.Can be

frightening in the beginning as it is very loud.)

Guruji

discouraged all mental speculations about the philosophical nature of Mantras,

especially Bija Mantras. Saddhana…more Saddhana was his constant advice.

As

always, he was right.

I

sincerely hope though that the small explanation above is somewhat

useful, looking at the same thing, from a different angle.

With

deep respect to all:

AJ

sohamsa , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao "

<pvr wrote:

>

> Namaste SS,

>

> Sabda (loosely translated as sound or vibration) has 4 levels - vaikhari,

madhyama, pastanti and para. When moving parts of our gross body (e.g. lips)

move the gross bodies of objects around us (particles in air) and this

vibration is perceived by the senses attached to the gross bodies of people

around us (e.g. ears), that vibration is at the level of vaikhari. When we are

talking about pronunciation of mantras, we are essentially talking about

vaikhari.

>

> But we are not just our sthoola sareera (gross body). There is also a

sookshma sareera (subtle body), kaarana sareera (causal body) and finally

MahaKaarana sareera (cosmic body). Just as vibration in sthoola sareera creates

vaikhari, vibrations in other levels also create vibrations at other levels.

>

> The image you have in mind when you chant a mantra and the thoughts you

are thinking when you chant a mantra go towards shaping the subtle vibrations

behind a mantra. They vibrate the space around you at the subtle level.

>

> Once you cause of vibration of space around you (at gross or subtle

level), it is there. One with an ability to perceive it can perceive it. Of

course, the deity of your mantra does not receive just the gross vibration

produced by you, but receives and responds to the entirety of the vibrations

produced by you at all levels.

>

> Vaikhari is the least powerful level and para is the most powerful level.

>

> All the scholarly preoccupation with the correct pronunciation etc is a

little trite. The devotion, sense of surrender and the ability to create the

correct mental images and correct thoughts to accompany the chanting of the

mantra are far more important.

>

> Of course, it is helpful to pronounce the mantra correctly too. I am not

saying ignore the correct pronunciation. Do your BEST to get it correct. But

all I am saying is that that plays a small part and a bigger part is played by

other factors which are often ignored. Do NOT ignore those.

>

> Secondly, being a child as opposed to an arrogant scholar helps with gods.

If you can be like a child who is lost by parents at a fair and crying for

them, it is easier to find god. As a matter of fact, we ARE almost like a

clueless little children left by parents at the fair (of samsara)!

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

>

> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> Spirituality:

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

>

> > Dear Arpad,

> >

> > This is a very interesting acount you have given. It also raises a

> > rhetoric question whether water ceases to exist as water if called

> > paani, aab etc. This is so far as gross items go.

> >

> > For mantras that act at a subtle level there can be 2 veiws or more:

> >

> > 1. Correct pronunciation is a must (why then is there emphasis on the

> > same while reciting vedas etc.) - or else rakshati and bhakshati can

> > yeild different results (wonder if someone really evaluated that)

> >

> > 2. Meaning/Essence of the mantra should be understood and the effect

> > thus proceeds from there.

> >

> > Both veiws may be right in their own way.

> >

> > A prayer may have no words, yet can be effective.

> >

> > Example of Valmiki reciting Mara-Mara is popular - whichever category

> > that one falls in!

> >

> > Thanx for your time.

> >

> > Best Regards,

> > SS

>

November 9, 2008

kleem namah narasimhaaya

Dear Sanjayji, Namaskar

I have analyzed this dasa on my chart and biggest spiritual progress

was during sixth house dasa rasi (vrscika) which doesnt have

association with Lagna nor AK. Whilst next dasa of Libra which is fifth

and joining AK has decreased my interest in pure spirituality...maybe I

have wrong definitins..but thats my anubhava.

October 25, 1982

Time: 19:35:30

Time Zone: 1:00:00 (East of GMT)

Place: 18 E 41' 00", 50 N 13' 00"

Where I went wrong?

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz / SJC

Teacher

www: http://rohinaa.com /

email:

rafal

Sanjay Rath pisze:

Dear Arpad ji

Namaste. I thank you sincerely for sharing this. Just one

point

that perhaps you may have overlooked about the teachings – it is

definitely foolish to even contemplate to speculate on meaning of the

bija and

other such things *during the course of the sadhana* ...I think

it is

this latter part that Guruji Janardhana Paramhamsa may have tried to

emphasize

as the mantra shastra books explain in great detail the formation of

the bijas,

their special names which have so much meaning. Every akshara of the

bija

nighantu has multiple approaches depending on the path – Vaishnava,

Shaiva, Shakta. Its all so wonderfully divined and then the meaning

only adds a

flavour, perhaps a another way to understand that the banyan tree was

in the

seed ... although from the viewpoint of sadhana it is really not at all

necessary.

The brain has a strange way of seeking rational answers when

nothing is forthcoming. For example for all the *sleep on floor*

and *take

bath in normal water* rules I rationalised, much much later, that

it was

all about not getting entangled with making beds, using warm water

which

soothes as opposed to cold water that awakens the nerves while normal

water

keeps the body at the best temperature for the weather. Another thing

perhaps

was that the mind would waste too much energy in a focus that was

actually yet

another hindrance or disturbance to the sadhana. My Gurudev was a

simple Brahmin

from Jagannath Puri but was quite strict about all this. Bhagavan

Mishra was a

great Durga sadhaka and taought me the Mahavidya (at least two of

them).

I suggest you try Niryana Shula dasa for the spiritual quest

and

sadhana. It shows the transformations to the being. When the dasa rasi

aspects

the lagna, you will find the shakti associated with the planets getting

invoked. The highest experience comes when the niryana shula dasha

moves

to signs looking at the chara atmakaraka.

Niryana Shoola Dasa (death): Sanjay Rath

Maha Dasas:

Li: 1963-08-07 - 1970-08-07

Sc: 1970-08-07 - 1978-08-07

Sg: 1978-08-07 - 1987-08-08 – has exalted

Ketu (trim graha bija) ...aspects the lagna ...Saraswati, Tara

Cp: 1987-08-08 - 1994-08-07 – has AK

Saturn as subhapati in DhanisTha nakshatra (Mars) ...you can easily

guess

Aq: 1994-08-07 - 2002-08-07

Pi: 2002-08-07 - 2011-08-08 –Virgo

antardasa – Diksha in the Sri Sarada Math at the holy feet of Gurvi

Shraddhaprana ambe – this is Lagna with Jupiter in it. A life

transforming experience in which she talked in chaste Bengali with me

and made

me talk to her in chaste oriya...conversatio n continued for 2-3 hours

and I

understood every word. She does not know Oriya, not the pure oriya we

speak in

Puri. After that when I returned to normalcy...I am still shocked as I

cannot

understand Bengali well but am improving. Recently I decided to learn

this

language. Others present were shell shocked to see what was

transpiring.

My most important lesson of life – Language is not a

barrier with God and it answered my all time question – What language

is

God going to speak in when I meet Him after death?’ That was a question

from my youth and was answered without even asking.

Ar: 2011-08-08 - 2018-08-07

Ta: 2018-08-07 - 2026-08-08 – I will

change permanently. ..so technically I still have about a decade or so

to finish

my major jyotish teachings world wide. Thereafter withdrawal is sure to

come.

Lets see what happens. Its tough to predict for oneself.

Ge: 2026-08-08 - 2035-08-08

Cn: 2035-08-08 - 2042-08-08

Le: 2042-08-08 - 2050-08-08

Vi: 2050-08-08 - 2059-08-08

Sanjay Rath

sohamsa@ .com

[sohamsa] On Behalf Of Arpad Joo

07 November 2008 12:19

sohamsa@ .com

Re: Pronunciation of mantras

Hare Rama Krishna,

Dear

SS and Narasimha,

Perhaps

some tidbits from my encounter with one expert in the Mantra shastra

will throw

some additional light upon the erudite and scholarly commentary offered

by

Narasimha.

I

have come to the study of Sanskrit and Mantras from the "other end"

as it were. Sound by sound. Letter (akshara) by letter.The building

blocks of

creation- as Guruji explained to me.

Yes,

Guruji. He was born in 1888 (!), a great Bengali yogi, by the name of

Janardan

Paramahamsa. He was a very fierce ascetic and a lifelong brahmachari.

In his

youth he was a terrorist( at least the british called him this way) but

to many

people he was a freedom fighter. (my version also)Upon taking disksha

from his

Guru,(gave up the freedom fighting days)and he has retired into the

jungles for some 30 years to do continous saddhana. According to some,

he did't

even talk to anyone for this period of time, as he has lived totally

alone.

It

is from him that I have learned what I know about the building blocks

of the

Universe- the aksharas. He has called this Vidya variously Dvani yoga,

Kriya

Yoga, Shabda yoga etc. Labels did't matter too much though.

He

has intiated us (one by one) into the science of using Bija mantras

properly.

Each bija Mantra required a separate diksha. The Science (Vidya) is as

exact

as it possibly can be. Some Bija mantras "produced" only in

inhalation, some others, only in exhalation.The exact technique leaves

nothing

to the imagination. (In fact imagination is discouraged) . The exact

technique is

a secret, it was and never will be published.Knowing it however,

enables one,

when reading various Tantras, to understand what the writers have

intended.

Many

Bija Mantras were taught, to some Saraswati Bija, others,Shiva Bija,yet

othersLakshmi, Durga,Varma, occasionally Krodha,Kinkini, Kama, Etc

Guruji

was up by 3 30 am every morning, and we naturally followed his example.

We did

saddhana all day. Guruji had awesome siddhis, which manifested with

"alarming" ease, nearly all the time.Naturally. His prescriprion for

every problem in life, whether marital,financial, carrier or anything

else was:

SADDHANA. MORE SADDHANA.

Now

to the 4 levels of sound- as described by scholarly Narasimha.

One

of us was freshly intitiated into the use and mysteries of Saraswati

Bija.

Guruji usually asked for fruits and flowers and some coins (Guru

dakshina),

then put up the picture of his Gurus (going back to the great

Matang Rishi),

and gave the diksha.He had his own way of doing things, such as opening

the

spine (by his touch) and then almost inaudibly whispering the Mantra

into the

right ear. (please take note: Panchang/Yoga/ Hearing).

He

was nearly 90 when we met….

Then

the sadhak started doing Saraswati saddhana. All the time.

Through

Guruji's grace a few days(!) afterward there came a

moment when the Mantra just exploded.Exploded. There is no other

ways to

describe it.Sonic boom. Of course ordinary consciousness is

shifted,enlarged at

this moment. The sense of ego, "I" (how laughable)is gone, like a bad

dream.The Bija sound engulfs the meditator, envelopes the whole being.

All is

sound.The Saraswati Bija then starts to reveal itself, it's true

sound more and more. AIM- as how we

pronounce it –(Vaikhari level) is just a faint, VERY faint replica, a

shadow of the real thing. Then, Saraswati Bija will shift yet another

"gear" upward, to the next level. Here the multitude of sounds becomes

a single sweet sound- (emanating from the heart region),and at this

level, of

course consciousness shift also into a different mode altogether.

When

the sadhak "came back" to his normal everyday consciousness and

related all this to Guruji, he just smiled and simply said:"Oh, you

have

heard Saraswati play her Veena"…

(Technically,

the explosion is a sign of prana and apana uniting. It is unmistakable.

Can be

frightening in the beginning as it is very loud.)

Guruji

discouraged all mental speculations about the philosophical nature of

Mantras,

especially Bija Mantras. Saddhana…more Saddhana was his constant

advice.

As

always, he was right.

I

sincerely hope though that the small explanation above is somewhat

useful, looking at the same thing, from a different angle.

With

deep respect to all:

AJ

sohamsa@ .com, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"

<pvr wrote:

>

> Namaste SS,

>

> Sabda (loosely translated as sound or vibration) has 4 levels -

vaikhari,

madhyama, pastanti and para. When moving parts of our gross body (e.g.

lips)

move the gross bodies of objects around us (particles in air) and this

vibration is perceived by the senses attached to the gross bodies of

people

around us (e.g. ears), that vibration is at the level of vaikhari. When

we are

talking about pronunciation of mantras, we are essentially talking

about

vaikhari.

>

> But we are not just our sthoola sareera (gross body). There is

also a

sookshma sareera (subtle body), kaarana sareera (causal body) and

finally

MahaKaarana sareera (cosmic body). Just as vibration in sthoola sareera

creates

vaikhari, vibrations in other levels also create vibrations at other

levels.

>

> The image you have in mind when you chant a mantra and the

thoughts you

are thinking when you chant a mantra go towards shaping the subtle

vibrations

behind a mantra. They vibrate the space around you at the subtle level.

>

> Once you cause of vibration of space around you (at gross or

subtle

level), it is there. One with an ability to perceive it can perceive

it. Of

course, the deity of your mantra does not receive just the gross

vibration

produced by you, but receives and responds to the entirety of the

vibrations

produced by you at all levels.

>

> Vaikhari is the least powerful level and para is the most powerful

level.

>

> All the scholarly preoccupation with the correct pronunciation etc

is a

little trite. The devotion, sense of surrender and the ability to

create the

correct mental images and correct thoughts to accompany the chanting of

the

mantra are far more important.

>

> Of course, it is helpful to pronounce the mantra correctly too. I

am not

saying ignore the correct pronunciation. Do your BEST to get it

correct. But

all I am saying is that that plays a small part and a bigger part is

played by

other factors which are often ignored. Do NOT ignore those.

>

> Secondly, being a child as opposed to an arrogant scholar helps

with gods.

If you can be like a child who is lost by parents at a fair and crying

for

them, it is easier to find god. As a matter of fact, we ARE almost like

a

clueless little children left by parents at the fair (of samsara)!

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

---------

> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/

tarpana

> Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

---------

>

> > Dear Arpad,

> >

> > This is a very interesting acount you have given. It also

raises a

> > rhetoric question whether water ceases to exist as water if

called

> > paani, aab etc. This is so far as gross items go.

> >

> > For mantras that act at a subtle level there can be 2 veiws

or more:

> >

> > 1. Correct pronunciation is a must (why then is there

emphasis on the

> > same while reciting vedas etc.) - or else rakshati and

bhakshati can

> > yeild different results (wonder if someone really evaluated

that)

> >

> > 2. Meaning/Essence of the mantra should be understood and the

effect

> > thus proceeds from there.

> >

> > Both veiws may be right in their own way.

> >

> > A prayer may have no words, yet can be effective.

> >

> > Example of Valmiki reciting Mara-Mara is popular - whichever

category

> > that one falls in!

> >

> > Thanx for your time.

> >

> > Best Regards,

> > SS

>

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1777 - Release 2008-11-09 09:53

November 10, 2008

Hare Rama Krishna,

Dear Sanjay ji

Of course, Guruji has taken great care to explain to "formation" of the Bija Mantras, how the Universe evolved from sounds etc. But you are quite right, I may have learned/absorbed a very, very small amount of knowledge what Guruji was teaching. Part of the problem was that at that time I was very young, and I did't quite understand some of the precious teachings Guruji has given. Entirely my fault. However, Guruji had this great ability to "bury" seeds of realization/knowledge in my subconsciousness (such a terrible word), which years later brought forth the results. In fact, listening to some of your lectures, I often have this "aha" experience, when I begin to understand what Guruji meant- back then. There was this great Yogi, a siddha and on the receiving end there was this very immature recipient of the precious teachings. But, for some reason or other, Guruji treated this one with great patience and kindness. Also, Guruji taught in Bengali and "faithful" Swami Shraddhanandaji was translating, taking great care and effort to translate everything as accurately as possible. As you can imagine, my Bengali is non existent. Certainly ,those days.However, many of us were ( and are) convinced that Guruji understood all languages.He would often reply precisely and exactly to our questions, before S. Shraddhananda had a chance to translate.

On another matter- thank you for your gracious note concerning the "cross cultural" observations about curses. I am very aware and mindful that forum is primarily devoted to jyotish in general and your parampara in particular. I respect that. That is why I am reluctant to "stray" from these subjects.

Thank you for your suggestions concerning Niryana Shoola dasha. I shall begin to apply now that I have received additional guidance.

With deep respect:

AJ

sohamsa , "Sanjay Rath" <sjrath wrote:>> Dear Arpad ji> > Namaste. I thank you sincerely for sharing this. Just one point that perhaps> you may have overlooked about the teachings - it is definitely foolish to> even contemplate to speculate on meaning of the bija and other such things> *during the course of the sadhana* ...I think it is this latter part that> Guruji Janardhana Paramhamsa may have tried to emphasize as the mantra> shastra books explain in great detail the formation of the bijas, their> special names which have so much meaning. Every akshara of the bija nighantu> has multiple approaches depending on the path - Vaishnava, Shaiva, Shakta.> Its all so wonderfully divined and then the meaning only adds a flavour,> perhaps a another way to understand that the banyan tree was in the seed ...> although from the viewpoint of sadhana it is really not at all necessary. > > > > The brain has a strange way of seeking rational answers when nothing is> forthcoming. For example for all the *sleep on floor* and *take bath in> normal water* rules I rationalised, much much later, that it was all about> not getting entangled with making beds, using warm water which soothes as> opposed to cold water that awakens the nerves while normal water keeps the> body at the best temperature for the weather. Another thing perhaps was that> the mind would waste too much energy in a focus that was actually yet> another hindrance or disturbance to the sadhana. My Gurudev was a simple> Brahmin from Jagannath Puri but was quite strict about all this. Bhagavan> Mishra was a great Durga sadhaka and taought me the Mahavidya (at least two> of them).> > > > I suggest you try Niryana Shula dasa for the spiritual quest and sadhana. It> shows the transformations to the being. When the dasa rasi aspects the> lagna, you will find the shakti associated with the planets getting invoked.> The highest experience comes when the niryana shula dasha moves to signs> looking at the chara atmakaraka.> > > > Niryana Shoola Dasa (death): Sanjay Rath> > > > Maha Dasas:> > > > Li: 1963-08-07 - 1970-08-07> > Sc: 1970-08-07 - 1978-08-07> > Sg: 1978-08-07 - 1987-08-08 - has exalted Ketu (trim graha bija)> ...aspects the lagna ...Saraswati, Tara> > Cp: 1987-08-08 - 1994-08-07 - has AK Saturn as subhapati in DhanisTha> nakshatra (Mars) ...you can easily guess> > Aq: 1994-08-07 - 2002-08-07> > Pi: 2002-08-07 - 2011-08-08 -Virgo antardasa - Diksha in the Sri Sarada> Math at the holy feet of Gurvi Shraddhaprana ambe - this is Lagna with> Jupiter in it. A life transforming experience in which she talked in chaste> Bengali with me and made me talk to her in chaste oriya...conversation> continued for 2-3 hours and I understood every word. She does not know> Oriya, not the pure oriya we speak in Puri. After that when I returned to> normalcy...I am still shocked as I cannot understand Bengali well but am> improving. Recently I decided to learn this language. Others present were> shell shocked to see what was transpiring. > > My most important lesson of life - Language is not a barrier with God and it> answered my all time question - What language is God going to speak in when> I meet Him after death?' That was a question from my youth and was answered> without even asking.> > > > Ar: 2011-08-08 - 2018-08-07> > Ta: 2018-08-07 - 2026-08-08 - I will change permanently...so technically> I still have about a decade or so to finish my major jyotish teachings world> wide. Thereafter withdrawal is sure to come. Lets see what happens. Its> tough to predict for oneself.> > Ge: 2026-08-08 - 2035-08-08> > Cn: 2035-08-08 - 2042-08-08> > Le: 2042-08-08 - 2050-08-08> > Vi: 2050-08-08 - 2059-08-08> > > > Sanjay Rath> > > > sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of> Arpad Joo> 07 November 2008 12:19> sohamsa > Re: Pronunciation of mantras> > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna,> > > > Dear SS and Narasimha,> > > > Perhaps some tidbits from my encounter with one expert in the Mantra shastra> will throw some additional light upon the erudite and scholarly commentary> offered by Narasimha.> > I have come to the study of Sanskrit and Mantras from the "other end" as it> were. Sound by sound. Letter (akshara) by letter.The building blocks of> creation- as Guruji explained to me.> > Yes, Guruji. He was born in 1888 (!), a great Bengali yogi, by the name of> Janardan Paramahamsa. He was a very fierce ascetic and a lifelong> brahmachari.In his youth he was a terrorist( at least the british called him> this way) but to many people he was a freedom fighter. (my version also)Upon> taking disksha from his Guru,(gave up the freedom fighting days)and he has> retired into the jungles for some 30 years to do continous saddhana.> According to some, he did't even talk to anyone for this period of time, as> he has lived totally alone.> > It is from him that I have learned what I know about the building blocks of> the Universe- the aksharas. He has called this Vidya variously Dvani yoga,> Kriya Yoga, Shabda yoga etc. Labels did't matter too much though.> > He has intiated us (one by one) into the science of using Bija mantras> properly. Each bija Mantra required a separate diksha. The Science (Vidya)> is as exact as it possibly can be. Some Bija mantras "produced" only in> inhalation, some others, only in exhalation.The exact technique leaves> nothing to the imagination.(In fact imagination is discouraged). The exact> technique is a secret, it was and never will be published.Knowing it> however, enables one, when reading various Tantras, to understand what the> writers have intended.> > Many Bija Mantras were taught, to some Saraswati Bija, others,Shiva Bija,yet> othersLakshmi,Durga,Varma,occasionally Krodha,Kinkini,Kama, Etc> > Guruji was up by 3 30 am every morning, and we naturally followed his> example. We did saddhana all day. Guruji had awesome siddhis, which> manifested with "alarming" ease, nearly all the time.Naturally.His> prescriprion for every problem in life, whether marital,financial,carrier or> anything else was: SADDHANA. MORE SADDHANA.> > Now to the 4 levels of sound- as described by scholarly Narasimha.> > One of us was freshly intitiated into the use and mysteries of Saraswati> Bija. Guruji usually asked for fruits and flowers and some coins (Guru> dakshina), then put up the picture of his Gurus (going back to the great> Matang Rishi), and gave the diksha.He had his own way of doing things, such> as opening the spine (by his touch) and then almost inaudibly whispering the> Mantra into the right ear. (please take note: Panchang/Yoga/Hearing).> > He was nearly 90 when we met..> > Then the sadhak started doing Saraswati saddhana. All the time.> > Through Guruji's grace a few days(!) afterward there came a moment when> the Mantra just exploded.Exploded. There is no other ways to describe> it.Sonic boom. Of course ordinary consciousness is shifted,enlarged at this> moment. The sense of ego, "I" (how laughable)is gone, like a bad dream.The> Bija sound engulfs the meditator, envelopes the whole being. All is> sound.The Saraswati Bija then starts to reveal itself, it's true sound> more and more. AIM- as how we pronounce it -(Vaikhari level) is just a> faint, VERY faint replica, a shadow of the real thing. Then, Saraswati Bija> will shift yet another "gear" upward, to the next level. Here the multitude> of sounds becomes a single sweet sound- (emanating from the heart> region),and at this level, of course consciousness shift also into a> different mode altogether.> > When the sadhak "came back" to his normal everyday consciousness and related> all this to Guruji, he just smiled and simply said:"Oh, you have heard> Saraswati play her Veena".> > (Technically, the explosion is a sign of prana and apana uniting. It is> unmistakable.Can be frightening in the beginning as it is very loud.)> > Guruji discouraged all mental speculations about the philosophical nature of> Mantras, especially Bija Mantras. Saddhana.more Saddhana was his constant> advice.> > As always, he was right.> > > > I sincerely hope though that the small explanation above is somewhat> useful, looking at the same thing, from a different angle.> > > > With deep respect to all:> > > > AJ> > > sohamsa , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" pvr@ wrote:> >> > Namaste SS,> > > > Sabda (loosely translated as sound or vibration) has 4 levels - vaikhari,> madhyama, pastanti and para. When moving parts of our gross body (e.g. lips)> move the gross bodies of objects around us (particles in air) and this> vibration is perceived by the senses attached to the gross bodies of people> around us (e.g. ears), that vibration is at the level of vaikhari. When we> are talking about pronunciation of mantras, we are essentially talking about> vaikhari.> > > > But we are not just our sthoola sareera (gross body). There is also a> sookshma sareera (subtle body), kaarana sareera (causal body) and finally> MahaKaarana sareera (cosmic body). Just as vibration in sthoola sareera> creates vaikhari, vibrations in other levels also create vibrations at other> levels.> > > > The image you have in mind when you chant a mantra and the thoughts you> are thinking when you chant a mantra go towards shaping the subtle> vibrations behind a mantra. They vibrate the space around you at the subtle> level.> > > > Once you cause of vibration of space around you (at gross or subtle> level), it is there. One with an ability to perceive it can perceive it. Of> course, the deity of your mantra does not receive just the gross vibration> produced by you, but receives and responds to the entirety of the vibrations> produced by you at all levels.> > > > Vaikhari is the least powerful level and para is the most powerful level.> > > > All the scholarly preoccupation with the correct pronunciation etc is a> little trite. The devotion, sense of surrender and the ability to create the> correct mental images and correct thoughts to accompany the chanting of the> mantra are far more important.> > > > Of course, it is helpful to pronounce the mantra correctly too. I am not> saying ignore the correct pronunciation. Do your BEST to get it correct. But> all I am saying is that that plays a small part and a bigger part is played> by other factors which are often ignored. Do NOT ignore those.> > > > Secondly, being a child as opposed to an arrogant scholar helps with gods.> If you can be like a child who is lost by parents at a fair and crying for> them, it is easier to find god. As a matter of fact, we ARE almost like a> clueless little children left by parents at the fair (of samsara)!> > > > Best regards,> > Narasimha> > > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana> > Spirituality: > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > > > > > Dear Arpad,> > > > > > This is a very interesting acount you have given. It also raises a > > > rhetoric question whether water ceases to exist as water if called > > > paani, aab etc. This is so far as gross items go. > > > > > > For mantras that act at a subtle level there can be 2 veiws or more:> > > > > > 1. Correct pronunciation is a must (why then is there emphasis on the > > > same while reciting vedas etc.) - or else rakshati and bhakshati can > > > yeild different results (wonder if someone really evaluated that)> > > > > > 2. Meaning/Essence of the mantra should be understood and the effect > > > thus proceeds from there. > > > > > > Both veiws may be right in their own way. > > > > > > A prayer may have no words, yet can be effective.> > > > > > Example of Valmiki reciting Mara-Mara is popular - whichever category > > > that one falls in!> > > > > > Thanx for your time.> > > > > > Best Regards,> > > SS> >>

November 12, 2008

Rafal

Just add your jhd chart...what is your place of birth?

Sanjay

sohamsa

[sohamsa ] On Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz

09 November 2008 18:52

sohamsa

Re: Re: Pronunciation of mantras

kleem namah narasimhaaya

Dear Sanjayji, Namaskar

I have analyzed this dasa on my chart and biggest spiritual progress was during

sixth house dasa rasi (vrscika) which doesnt have association with Lagna

nor AK. Whilst next dasa of Libra which is fifth and joining AK has decreased

my interest in pure spirituality...maybe I have wrong definitins..but thats my

anubhava.

October 25, 1982

Time: 19:35:30

Time Zone: 1:00:00 (East of GMT)

Place: 18 E 41' 00 " , 50 N

13' 00 "

Where I went wrong?

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz / SJC Teacher

www: http://rohinaa.com / email: rafal

Sanjay Rath pisze:

Dear Arpad ji

Namaste. I thank you sincerely for sharing this. Just one point that perhaps

you may have overlooked about the teachings – it is definitely foolish to even

contemplate to speculate on meaning of the bija and other such things *during

the course of the sadhana* ...I think it is this latter part that Guruji

Janardhana Paramhamsa may have tried to emphasize as the mantra shastra books

explain in great detail the formation of the bijas, their special names which

have so much meaning. Every akshara of the bija nighantu has multiple

approaches depending on the path – Vaishnava, Shaiva, Shakta. Its all so wonderfully

divined and then the meaning only adds a flavour, perhaps a another way to

understand that the banyan tree was in the seed ... although from the viewpoint

of sadhana it is really not at all necessary.

The brain has a strange way of seeking rational answers when nothing is

forthcoming. For example for all the *sleep on floor* and *take bath

in normal water* rules I rationalised, much much later, that it was all

about not getting entangled with making beds, using warm water which soothes as

opposed to cold water that awakens the nerves while normal water keeps the body

at the best temperature for the weather. Another thing perhaps was that the

mind would waste too much energy in a focus that was actually yet another

hindrance or disturbance to the sadhana. My Gurudev was a simple Brahmin from

Jagannath Puri but was quite strict about all this. Bhagavan Mishra was a great

Durga sadhaka and taought me the Mahavidya (at least two of them).

I suggest you try Niryana Shula dasa for the spiritual quest and sadhana. It

shows the transformations to the being. When the dasa rasi aspects the lagna,

you will find the shakti associated with the planets getting invoked. The

highest experience comes when the niryana shula dasha moves to signs

looking at the chara atmakaraka.

Niryana Shoola Dasa (death): Sanjay Rath

Maha Dasas:

Li: 1963-08-07 - 1970-08-07

Sc: 1970-08-07 - 1978-08-07

Sg: 1978-08-07 - 1987-08-08 – has exalted Ketu (trim

graha bija) ...aspects the lagna ...Saraswati, Tara

Cp: 1987-08-08 - 1994-08-07 – has AK Saturn as

subhapati in DhanisTha nakshatra (Mars) ...you can easily guess

Aq: 1994-08-07 - 2002-08-07

Pi: 2002-08-07 - 2011-08-08 –Virgo antardasa –

Diksha in the Sri Sarada Math at the holy feet of Gurvi Shraddhaprana ambe –

this is Lagna with Jupiter in it. A life transforming experience in which she

talked in chaste Bengali with me and made me talk to her in chaste

oriya...conversatio n continued for 2-3 hours and I understood every word. She

does not know Oriya, not the pure oriya we speak in Puri. After that when I

returned to normalcy...I am still shocked as I cannot understand Bengali well

but am improving. Recently I decided to learn this language. Others present

were shell shocked to see what was transpiring.

My most important lesson of life – Language is not a barrier with God and it

answered my all time question – What language is God going to speak in when I

meet Him after death?’ That was a question from my youth and was answered

without even asking.

Ar: 2011-08-08 - 2018-08-07

Ta: 2018-08-07 - 2026-08-08 – I will change

permanently. ..so technically I still have about a decade or so to finish my

major jyotish teachings world wide. Thereafter withdrawal is sure to come. Lets

see what happens. Its tough to predict for oneself.

Ge: 2026-08-08 - 2035-08-08

Cn: 2035-08-08 - 2042-08-08

Le: 2042-08-08 - 2050-08-08

Vi: 2050-08-08 - 2059-08-08

Sanjay Rath

sohamsa@

..com [sohamsa] On

Behalf Of Arpad Joo

07 November 2008 12:19

sohamsa@ .com

Re: Pronunciation of mantras

Hare Rama Krishna,

Dear SS and Narasimha,

Perhaps some tidbits from my encounter with one expert in the Mantra shastra

will throw some additional light upon the erudite and scholarly commentary

offered by Narasimha.

I have come to the study of Sanskrit and Mantras from the " other

end " as it were. Sound by sound. Letter (akshara) by letter.The building

blocks of creation- as Guruji explained to me.

Yes, Guruji. He was born in 1888 (!), a great Bengali yogi, by the name of

Janardan Paramahamsa. He was a very fierce ascetic and a lifelong brahmachari.

In his youth he was a terrorist( at least the british called him this way) but

to many people he was a freedom fighter. (my version also)Upon taking disksha

from his Guru,(gave up the freedom fighting days)and he has retired into

the jungles for some 30 years to do continous saddhana. According to some, he

did't even talk to anyone for this period of time, as he has lived totally

alone.

It is from him that I have learned what I know about the building blocks of

the Universe- the aksharas. He has called this Vidya variously Dvani yoga,

Kriya Yoga, Shabda yoga etc. Labels did't matter too much though.

He has intiated us (one by one) into the science of using Bija mantras

properly. Each bija Mantra required a separate diksha. The Science (Vidya) is

as exact as it possibly can be. Some Bija mantras " produced " only in

inhalation, some others, only in exhalation.The exact technique leaves nothing

to the imagination. (In fact imagination is discouraged) . The exact technique

is a secret, it was and never will be published.Knowing it however, enables

one, when reading various Tantras, to understand what the writers have

intended.

Many Bija Mantras were taught, to some Saraswati Bija, others,Shiva Bija,yet

othersLakshmi, Durga,Varma, occasionally Krodha,Kinkini, Kama, Etc

Guruji was up by 3 30 am every morning, and we naturally followed his

example. We did saddhana all day. Guruji had awesome siddhis, which manifested

with " alarming " ease, nearly all the time.Naturally. His prescriprion

for every problem in life, whether marital,financial, carrier or anything else

was: SADDHANA. MORE SADDHANA.

Now to the 4 levels of sound- as described by scholarly Narasimha.

One of us was freshly intitiated into the use and mysteries of Saraswati

Bija. Guruji usually asked for fruits and flowers and some coins (Guru

dakshina), then put up the picture of his Gurus (going back to the great

Matang Rishi), and gave the diksha.He had his own way of doing things,

such as opening the spine (by his touch) and then almost inaudibly whispering the

Mantra into the right ear. (please take note: Panchang/Yoga/ Hearing).

He was nearly 90 when we met….

Then the sadhak started doing Saraswati saddhana. All the time.

Through Guruji's grace a few days(!) afterward

there came a moment when the Mantra just exploded.Exploded. There is no

other ways to describe it.Sonic boom. Of course ordinary consciousness is

shifted,enlarged at this moment. The sense of ego, " I " (how

laughable)is gone, like a bad dream.The Bija sound engulfs the meditator,

envelopes the whole being. All is sound.The Saraswati Bija then starts to

reveal itself, it's true sound more and

more. AIM- as how we pronounce it –(Vaikhari level) is just a faint, VERY faint

replica, a shadow of the real thing. Then, Saraswati Bija will shift yet

another " gear " upward, to the next level. Here the multitude of

sounds becomes a single sweet sound- (emanating from the heart region),and at

this level, of course consciousness shift also into a different mode

altogether.

When the sadhak " came back " to his normal everyday consciousness

and related all this to Guruji, he just smiled and simply said: " Oh, you

have heard Saraswati play her Veena " …

(Technically, the explosion is a sign of prana and apana uniting. It is

unmistakable. Can be frightening in the beginning as it is very loud.)

Guruji discouraged all mental speculations about the philosophical nature of

Mantras, especially Bija Mantras. Saddhana…more Saddhana was his constant

advice.

As always, he was right.

I sincerely hope though that the small explanation above is somewhat

useful, looking at the same thing, from a different angle.

With deep respect to all:

AJ

sohamsa@ .com, " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr wrote:

>

> Namaste SS,

>

> Sabda (loosely translated as sound or vibration) has 4 levels - vaikhari,

madhyama, pastanti and para. When moving parts of our gross body (e.g. lips)

move the gross bodies of objects around us (particles in air) and this

vibration is perceived by the senses attached to the gross bodies of people

around us (e.g. ears), that vibration is at the level of vaikhari. When we are

talking about pronunciation of mantras, we are essentially talking about

vaikhari.

>

> But we are not just our sthoola sareera (gross body). There is also a

sookshma sareera (subtle body), kaarana sareera (causal body) and finally

MahaKaarana sareera (cosmic body). Just as vibration in sthoola sareera creates

vaikhari, vibrations in other levels also create vibrations at other levels.

>

> The image you have in mind when you chant a mantra and the thoughts you

are thinking when you chant a mantra go towards shaping the subtle vibrations

behind a mantra. They vibrate the space around you at the subtle level.

>

> Once you cause of vibration of space around you (at gross or subtle

level), it is there. One with an ability to perceive it can perceive it. Of

course, the deity of your mantra does not receive just the gross vibration

produced by you, but receives and responds to the entirety of the vibrations

produced by you at all levels.

>

> Vaikhari is the least powerful level and para is the most powerful level.

>

> All the scholarly preoccupation with the correct pronunciation etc is a

little trite. The devotion, sense of surrender and the ability to create the

correct mental images and correct thoughts to accompany the chanting of the

mantra are far more important.

>

> Of course, it is helpful to pronounce the mantra correctly too. I am not

saying ignore the correct pronunciation. Do your BEST to get it correct. But

all I am saying is that that plays a small part and a bigger part is played by

other factors which are often ignored. Do NOT ignore those.

>

> Secondly, being a child as opposed to an arrogant scholar helps with gods.

If you can be like a child who is lost by parents at a fair and crying for

them, it is easier to find god. As a matter of fact, we ARE almost like a

clueless little children left by parents at the fair (of samsara)!

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

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nath.org

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

>

> > Dear Arpad,

> >

> > This is a very interesting acount you have given. It also raises a

> > rhetoric question whether water ceases to exist as water if called

> > paani, aab etc. This is so far as gross items go.

> >

> > For mantras that act at a subtle level there can be 2 veiws or more:

> >

> > 1. Correct pronunciation is a must (why then is there emphasis on the

> > same while reciting vedas etc.) - or else rakshati and bhakshati can

> > yeild different results (wonder if someone really evaluated that)

> >

> > 2. Meaning/Essence of the mantra should be understood and the effect

> > thus proceeds from there.

> >

> > Both veiws may be right in their own way.

> >

> > A prayer may have no words, yet can be effective.

> >

> > Example of Valmiki reciting Mara-Mara is popular - whichever category

> > that one falls in!

> >

> > Thanx for your time.

> >

> > Best Regards,

> > SS

>

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1777 - Release 2008-11-09 09:53

November 12, 2008

Rafal, Why am I getting Taurus Lagna? JHora says 2 hours time zone

and you say 1 hour. Why this difference? Is the place Gleiwitz.

Sanjay

sohamsa

[sohamsa ] On Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz

09 November 2008 18:52

sohamsa

Re: Re: Pronunciation of mantras

kleem namah narasimhaaya

Dear Sanjayji, Namaskar

I have analyzed this dasa on my chart and biggest spiritual progress was during

sixth house dasa rasi (vrscika) which doesnt have association with Lagna

nor AK. Whilst next dasa of Libra which is fifth and joining AK has decreased

my interest in pure spirituality...maybe I have wrong definitins..but thats my

anubhava.

October 25, 1982

Time: 19:35:30

Time Zone: 1:00:00 (East of GMT)

Place: 18 E 41' 00 " , 50 N

13' 00 "

Where I went wrong?

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz / SJC Teacher

www: http://rohinaa.com / email: rafal

Sanjay Rath pisze:

Dear Arpad ji

Namaste. I thank you sincerely for sharing this. Just one point that perhaps

you may have overlooked about the teachings – it is definitely foolish to even

contemplate to speculate on meaning of the bija and other such things *during

the course of the sadhana* ...I think it is this latter part that Guruji

Janardhana Paramhamsa may have tried to emphasize as the mantra shastra books

explain in great detail the formation of the bijas, their special names which

have so much meaning. Every akshara of the bija nighantu has multiple

approaches depending on the path – Vaishnava, Shaiva, Shakta. Its all so

wonderfully divined and then the meaning only adds a flavour, perhaps a another

way to understand that the banyan tree was in the seed ... although from the

viewpoint of sadhana it is really not at all necessary.