Niryana Shoola Dasa (Pronunciation of mantras)

November 12, 2008

Dear Narasimhaji and Sanjayji,

In light of what seems to be recently happening, it would be great

if both of you could clarify one thing. In general, whenever you

attribute a dasa system or other astrological quantity as showing a

transformation/spiritual experience, could you *please* indicate the

*level of consciousness* at which that dasa-system/astrological

quantity focusses, so we can distinguish the different types of

transformation/spiritual experience shown by each?

For example, I have heard the following, or perhaps simply wrongly

understood it:

1) Moola Dasha/antar of Jupiter causes some kind of deep

insight/spiritual experience?

2) AK replacement causes transformation at a very deep level

(Narasimhaji of course now believes that there is no such thing)

3) Drigdasa has always been said to show spiritual growth, so

presumably it will show spiritual experiences/transformations as

well (and of course as we see Narasimhaji has now explained

Rafalji's experiences presumably accurately)

4) Sanjayji has now shown us Niryaana dasa as well

5) Of course, the Vimshottari of AK has frequently been indicated as

having the potential to awaken one towards God.

6) Even Narayana dasa of D-20 is perhaps significant

I'm not trying to contradict anyone here, I'm simply trying to point

out that with so many dasha systems/astrological quantities being

presented as the ones showing spiritual experience/transformation,

they may all be correct but showing experiences at very different

levels of consciousness perhaps. Or maybe some may be changes in

environment vs changes in some level of consciousness. So perhaps it

might be good if the " where the change occurs " part were qualified?

And to make it really clear, show us the chart of one great person,

and show us how each of the above dasa systems/astrological

quantities showed different things within the same person's life.

That would really sharpen the issues..

Regards,

Sundeep

sohamsa , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr

wrote:

>

> Pranaam Sanjay,

>

> I will appreciate if you can clarify one thing.

>

> Is the idea of using Niryana Shoola dasa to see " spiritual quest

and sadhana " coming from Achyuta parampara or your own?

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

>

> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> Spirituality:

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

>

> sohamsa , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Arpad ji

> >

> > Namaste. I thank you sincerely for sharing this. Just one point

that perhaps

> > you may have overlooked about the teachings - it is definitely

foolish to

> > even contemplate to speculate on meaning of the bija and other

such things

> > *during the course of the sadhana* ...I think it is this latter

part that

> > Guruji Janardhana Paramhamsa may have tried to emphasize as the

mantra

> > shastra books explain in great detail the formation of the

bijas, their

> > special names which have so much meaning. Every akshara of the

bija nighantu

> > has multiple approaches depending on the path - Vaishnava,

Shaiva, Shakta.

> > Its all so wonderfully divined and then the meaning only adds a

flavour,

> > perhaps a another way to understand that the banyan tree was in

the seed ...

> > although from the viewpoint of sadhana it is really not at all

necessary.

> >

> > The brain has a strange way of seeking rational answers when

nothing is

> > forthcoming. For example for all the *sleep on floor* and *take

bath in

> > normal water* rules I rationalised, much much later, that it was

all about

> > not getting entangled with making beds, using warm water which

soothes as

> > opposed to cold water that awakens the nerves while normal water

keeps the

> > body at the best temperature for the weather. Another thing

perhaps was that

> > the mind would waste too much energy in a focus that was

actually yet

> > another hindrance or disturbance to the sadhana. My Gurudev was

a simple

> > Brahmin from Jagannath Puri but was quite strict about all this.

Bhagavan

> > Mishra was a great Durga sadhaka and taought me the Mahavidya

(at least two

> > of them).

> >

> > I suggest you try Niryana Shula dasa for the spiritual quest and

sadhana. It

> > shows the transformations to the being. When the dasa rasi

aspects the

> > lagna, you will find the shakti associated with the planets

getting invoked.

> > The highest experience comes when the niryana shula dasha moves

to signs

> > looking at the chara atmakaraka.

> >

> > Niryana Shoola Dasa (death): Sanjay Rath

> >

> > Maha Dasas:

> >

> > Li: 1963-08-07 - 1970-08-07

> >

> > Sc: 1970-08-07 - 1978-08-07

> >

> > Sg: 1978-08-07 - 1987-08-08 - has exalted Ketu (trim graha

bija)

> > ...aspects the lagna ...Saraswati, Tara

> >

> > Cp: 1987-08-08 - 1994-08-07 - has AK Saturn as subhapati in

DhanisTha

> > nakshatra (Mars) ...you can easily guess

> >

> > Aq: 1994-08-07 - 2002-08-07

> >

> > Pi: 2002-08-07 - 2011-08-08 -Virgo antardasa - Diksha in the

Sri Sarada

> > Math at the holy feet of Gurvi Shraddhaprana ambe - this is

Lagna with

> > Jupiter in it. A life transforming experience in which she

talked in chaste

> > Bengali with me and made me talk to her in chaste

oriya...conversation

> > continued for 2-3 hours and I understood every word. She does

not know

> > Oriya, not the pure oriya we speak in Puri. After that when I

returned to

> > normalcy...I am still shocked as I cannot understand Bengali

well but am

> > improving. Recently I decided to learn this language. Others

present were

> > shell shocked to see what was transpiring.

> >

> > My most important lesson of life - Language is not a barrier

with God and it

> > answered my all time question - What language is God going to

speak in when

> > I meet Him after death?' That was a question from my youth and

was answered

> > without even asking.

> >

> > Ar: 2011-08-08 - 2018-08-07

> >

> > Ta: 2018-08-07 - 2026-08-08 - I will change permanently...so

technically

> > I still have about a decade or so to finish my major jyotish

teachings world

> > wide. Thereafter withdrawal is sure to come. Lets see what

happens. Its

> > tough to predict for oneself.

> >

> > Ge: 2026-08-08 - 2035-08-08

> >

> > Cn: 2035-08-08 - 2042-08-08

> >

> > Le: 2042-08-08 - 2050-08-08

> >

> > Vi: 2050-08-08 - 2059-08-08

> >

> > Sanjay Rath

> >

> > sohamsa [sohamsa ]

On Behalf Of

> > Arpad Joo

> > 07 November 2008 12:19

> > sohamsa

> > Re: Pronunciation of mantras

> >

> > Hare Rama Krishna,

> >

> > Dear SS and Narasimha,

> >

> > Perhaps some tidbits from my encounter with one expert in the

Mantra shastra

> > will throw some additional light upon the erudite and scholarly

commentary

> > offered by Narasimha.

> >

> > I have come to the study of Sanskrit and Mantras from the " other

end " as it

> > were. Sound by sound. Letter (akshara) by letter.The building

blocks of

> > creation- as Guruji explained to me.

> >

> > Yes, Guruji. He was born in 1888 (!), a great Bengali yogi, by

the name of

> > Janardan Paramahamsa. He was a very fierce ascetic and a lifelong

> > brahmachari.In his youth he was a terrorist( at least the

british called him

> > this way) but to many people he was a freedom fighter. (my

version also)Upon

> > taking disksha from his Guru,(gave up the freedom fighting days)

and he has

> > retired into the jungles for some 30 years to do continous

saddhana.

> > According to some, he did't even talk to anyone for this period

of time, as

> > he has lived totally alone.

> >

> > It is from him that I have learned what I know about the

building blocks of

> > the Universe- the aksharas. He has called this Vidya variously

Dvani yoga,

> > Kriya Yoga, Shabda yoga etc. Labels did't matter too much though.

> >

> > He has intiated us (one by one) into the science of using Bija

mantras

> > properly. Each bija Mantra required a separate diksha. The

Science (Vidya)

> > is as exact as it possibly can be. Some Bija mantras " produced "

only in

> > inhalation, some others, only in exhalation.The exact technique

leaves

> > nothing to the imagination.(In fact imagination is discouraged).

The exact

> > technique is a secret, it was and never will be

published.Knowing it

> > however, enables one, when reading various Tantras, to

understand what the

> > writers have intended.

> >

> > Many Bija Mantras were taught, to some Saraswati Bija,

others,Shiva Bija,yet

> > othersLakshmi,Durga,Varma,occasionally Krodha,Kinkini,Kama, Etc

> >

> > Guruji was up by 3 30 am every morning, and we naturally

followed his

> > example. We did saddhana all day. Guruji had awesome siddhis,

which

> > manifested with " alarming " ease, nearly all the

time.Naturally.His

> > prescriprion for every problem in life, whether

marital,financial,carrier or

> > anything else was: SADDHANA. MORE SADDHANA.

> >

> > Now to the 4 levels of sound- as described by scholarly

Narasimha.

> >

> > One of us was freshly intitiated into the use and mysteries of

Saraswati

> > Bija. Guruji usually asked for fruits and flowers and some coins

(Guru

> > dakshina), then put up the picture of his Gurus (going back to

the great

> > Matang Rishi), and gave the diksha.He had his own way of doing

things, such

> > as opening the spine (by his touch) and then almost inaudibly

whispering the

> > Mantra into the right ear. (please take note:

Panchang/Yoga/Hearing).

> >

> > He was nearly 90 when we met..

> >

> > Then the sadhak started doing Saraswati saddhana. All the time.

> >

> > Through Guruji's grace a few days(!) afterward there came a

moment when

> > the Mantra just exploded.Exploded. There is no other ways to

describe

> > it.Sonic boom. Of course ordinary consciousness is

shifted,enlarged at this

> > moment. The sense of ego, " I " (how laughable)is gone, like a bad

dream.The

> > Bija sound engulfs the meditator, envelopes the whole being. All

is

> > sound.The Saraswati Bija then starts to reveal itself, it's true

sound

> > more and more. AIM- as how we pronounce it -(Vaikhari level) is

just a

> > faint, VERY faint replica, a shadow of the real thing. Then,

Saraswati Bija

> > will shift yet another " gear " upward, to the next level. Here

the multitude

> > of sounds becomes a single sweet sound- (emanating from the heart

> > region),and at this level, of course consciousness shift also

into a

> > different mode altogether.

> >

> > When the sadhak " came back " to his normal everyday consciousness

and related

> > all this to Guruji, he just smiled and simply said: " Oh, you have

heard

> > Saraswati play her Veena " .

> >

> > (Technically, the explosion is a sign of prana and apana

uniting. It is

> > unmistakable.Can be frightening in the beginning as it is very

loud.)

> >

> > Guruji discouraged all mental speculations about the

philosophical nature of

> > Mantras, especially Bija Mantras. Saddhana.more Saddhana was his

constant

> > advice.

> >

> > As always, he was right.

> >

> > I sincerely hope though that the small explanation above is

somewhat

> > useful, looking at the same thing, from a different angle.

> >

> > With deep respect to all:

> >

> > AJ

> >

> > sohamsa , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Namaste SS,

> > >

> > > Sabda (loosely translated as sound or vibration) has 4 levels -

vaikhari,

> > madhyama, pastanti and para. When moving parts of our gross body

(e.g. lips)

> > move the gross bodies of objects around us (particles in air)

and this

> > vibration is perceived by the senses attached to the gross

bodies of people

> > around us (e.g. ears), that vibration is at the level of

vaikhari. When we

> > are talking about pronunciation of mantras, we are essentially

talking about

> > vaikhari.

> > >

> > > But we are not just our sthoola sareera (gross body). There is

also a

> > sookshma sareera (subtle body), kaarana sareera (causal body)

and finally

> > MahaKaarana sareera (cosmic body). Just as vibration in sthoola

sareera

> > creates vaikhari, vibrations in other levels also create

vibrations at other

> > levels.

> > >

> > > The image you have in mind when you chant a mantra and the

thoughts you

> > are thinking when you chant a mantra go towards shaping the

subtle

> > vibrations behind a mantra. They vibrate the space around you at

the subtle

> > level.

> > >

> > > Once you cause of vibration of space around you (at gross or

subtle

> > level), it is there. One with an ability to perceive it can

perceive it. Of

> > course, the deity of your mantra does not receive just the gross

vibration

> > produced by you, but receives and responds to the entirety of

the vibrations

> > produced by you at all levels.

> > >

> > > Vaikhari is the least powerful level and para is the most

powerful level.

> > >

> > > All the scholarly preoccupation with the correct pronunciation

etc is a

> > little trite. The devotion, sense of surrender and the ability

to create the

> > correct mental images and correct thoughts to accompany the

chanting of the

> > mantra are far more important.

> > >

> > > Of course, it is helpful to pronounce the mantra correctly

too. I am not

> > saying ignore the correct pronunciation. Do your BEST to get it

correct. But

> > all I am saying is that that plays a small part and a bigger

part is played

> > by other factors which are often ignored. Do NOT ignore those.

> > >

> > > Secondly, being a child as opposed to an arrogant scholar

helps with gods.

> > If you can be like a child who is lost by parents at a fair and

crying for

> > them, it is easier to find god. As a matter of fact, we ARE

almost like a

> > clueless little children left by parents at the fair (of

samsara)!

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > > Narasimha

> > > ------------------------------

---

> > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself:

http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> > > Spirituality:

> > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > > ------------------------------

---

> > >

> > > > Dear Arpad,

> > > >

> > > > This is a very interesting acount you have given. It also

raises a

> > > > rhetoric question whether water ceases to exist as water if

called

> > > > paani, aab etc. This is so far as gross items go.

> > > >

> > > > For mantras that act at a subtle level there can be 2 veiws

or more:

> > > >

> > > > 1. Correct pronunciation is a must (why then is there

emphasis on the

> > > > same while reciting vedas etc.) - or else rakshati and

bhakshati can

> > > > yeild different results (wonder if someone really evaluated

that)

> > > >

> > > > 2. Meaning/Essence of the mantra should be understood and

the effect

> > > > thus proceeds from there.

> > > >

> > > > Both veiws may be right in their own way.

> > > >

> > > > A prayer may have no words, yet can be effective.

> > > >

> > > > Example of Valmiki reciting Mara-Mara is popular - whichever

category

> > > > that one falls in!

> > > >

> > > > Thanx for your time.

> > > >

> > > > Best Regards,

> > > > SS

>

November 12, 2008

Dear Sundeep

Sorry for butting in. But all these are different.

Moola dasa is more for " root " or moola karma.

AK replacement is not a dasha

Infact i remember that even Brahma dasa shows spirituality, but i didnot write article on it, because i didnot understand the dasa then.(Sanjayji had asked me to write on Brahma dasa)

VImhsottari of AK is more pain than gain really.

regards

partha

On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 11:56 AM, vedicastrostudent <vedicastrostudent wrote:

Dear Narasimhaji and Sanjayji,In light of what seems to be recently happening, it would be great if both of you could clarify one thing. In general, whenever you attribute a dasa system or other astrological quantity as showing a

transformation/spiritual experience, could you *please* indicate the *level of consciousness* at which that dasa-system/astrological quantity focusses, so we can distinguish the different types of transformation/spiritual experience shown by each?

For example, I have heard the following, or perhaps simply wrongly understood it:1) Moola Dasha/antar of Jupiter causes some kind of deep insight/spiritual experience?2) AK replacement causes transformation at a very deep level

(Narasimhaji of course now believes that there is no such thing)3) Drigdasa has always been said to show spiritual growth, so presumably it will show spiritual experiences/transformations as well (and of course as we see Narasimhaji has now explained

Rafalji's experiences presumably accurately)4) Sanjayji has now shown us Niryaana dasa as well5) Of course, the Vimshottari of AK has frequently been indicated as having the potential to awaken one towards God.

6) Even Narayana dasa of D-20 is perhaps significantI'm not trying to contradict anyone here, I'm simply trying to point out that with so many dasha systems/astrological quantities being presented as the ones showing spiritual experience/transformation,

they may all be correct but showing experiences at very different levels of consciousness perhaps. Or maybe some may be changes in environment vs changes in some level of consciousness. So perhaps it might be good if the " where the change occurs " part were qualified?

And to make it really clear, show us the chart of one great person, and show us how each of the above dasa systems/astrological quantities showed different things within the same person's life. That would really sharpen the issues..

Regards,Sundeep

sohamsa , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr wrote:>> Pranaam Sanjay,>

> I will appreciate if you can clarify one thing.> > Is the idea of using Niryana Shoola dasa to see " spiritual quest and sadhana " coming from Achyuta parampara or your own?> > Best regards,

> Narasimha> -------------------------> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana> Spirituality:

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> ------------------------- > > sohamsa , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> wrote:

> >> > Dear Arpad ji> > > > Namaste. I thank you sincerely for sharing this. Just one point that perhaps> > you may have overlooked about the teachings - it is definitely

foolish to> > even contemplate to speculate on meaning of the bija and other such things> > *during the course of the sadhana* ...I think it is this latter part that> > Guruji Janardhana Paramhamsa may have tried to emphasize as the

mantra> > shastra books explain in great detail the formation of the bijas, their> > special names which have so much meaning. Every akshara of the bija nighantu> > has multiple approaches depending on the path - Vaishnava,

Shaiva, Shakta.> > Its all so wonderfully divined and then the meaning only adds a flavour,> > perhaps a another way to understand that the banyan tree was in the seed ...> > although from the viewpoint of sadhana it is really not at all

necessary. > > > > > > > > The brain has a strange way of seeking rational answers when nothing is> > forthcoming. For example for all the *sleep on floor* and *take

bath in> > normal water* rules I rationalised, much much later, that it was all about> > not getting entangled with making beds, using warm water which soothes as> > opposed to cold water that awakens the nerves while normal water

keeps the> > body at the best temperature for the weather. Another thing perhaps was that> > the mind would waste too much energy in a focus that was actually yet> > another hindrance or disturbance to the sadhana. My Gurudev was

a simple> > Brahmin from Jagannath Puri but was quite strict about all this. Bhagavan> > Mishra was a great Durga sadhaka and taought me the Mahavidya (at least two> > of them).> >

> > > > > > I suggest you try Niryana Shula dasa for the spiritual quest and sadhana. It> > shows the transformations to the being. When the dasa rasi aspects the> > lagna, you will find the shakti associated with the planets

getting invoked.> > The highest experience comes when the niryana shula dasha moves to signs> > looking at the chara atmakaraka.> > > > > > > > Niryana Shoola Dasa (death): Sanjay Rath

> > > > > > > > Maha Dasas:> > > > > > > > Li: 1963-08-07 - 1970-08-07> > > > Sc: 1970-08-07 - 1978-08-07> > > > Sg: 1978-08-07 - 1987-08-08 - has exalted Ketu (trim graha

bija)> > ...aspects the lagna ...Saraswati, Tara> > > > Cp: 1987-08-08 - 1994-08-07 - has AK Saturn as subhapati in DhanisTha> > nakshatra (Mars) ...you can easily guess> >

> > Aq: 1994-08-07 - 2002-08-07> > > > Pi: 2002-08-07 - 2011-08-08 -Virgo antardasa - Diksha in the Sri Sarada> > Math at the holy feet of Gurvi Shraddhaprana ambe - this is Lagna with

> > Jupiter in it. A life transforming experience in which she talked in chaste> > Bengali with me and made me talk to her in chaste oriya...conversation> > continued for 2-3 hours and I understood every word. She does

not know> > Oriya, not the pure oriya we speak in Puri. After that when I returned to> > normalcy...I am still shocked as I cannot understand Bengali well but am> > improving. Recently I decided to learn this language. Others

present were> > shell shocked to see what was transpiring. > > > > My most important lesson of life - Language is not a barrier with God and it> > answered my all time question - What language is God going to

speak in when> > I meet Him after death?' That was a question from my youth and was answered> > without even asking.> > > > > > > > Ar: 2011-08-08 - 2018-08-07

> > > > Ta: 2018-08-07 - 2026-08-08 - I will change permanently...so technically> > I still have about a decade or so to finish my major jyotish teachings world> > wide. Thereafter withdrawal is sure to come. Lets see what

happens. Its> > tough to predict for oneself.> > > > Ge: 2026-08-08 - 2035-08-08> > > > Cn: 2035-08-08 - 2042-08-08> > > > Le: 2042-08-08 - 2050-08-08

> > > > Vi: 2050-08-08 - 2059-08-08> > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath> > > > > > > > sohamsa [sohamsa ]

On Behalf Of> > Arpad Joo> > 07 November 2008 12:19> > sohamsa > > Re: Pronunciation of mantras

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna,> > > > > > > > Dear SS and Narasimha,> >

> > > > > > Perhaps some tidbits from my encounter with one expert in the Mantra shastra> > will throw some additional light upon the erudite and scholarly commentary> > offered by Narasimha.

> > > > I have come to the study of Sanskrit and Mantras from the " other end " as it> > were. Sound by sound. Letter (akshara) by letter.The building blocks of> > creation- as Guruji explained to me.

> > > > Yes, Guruji. He was born in 1888 (!), a great Bengali yogi, by the name of> > Janardan Paramahamsa. He was a very fierce ascetic and a lifelong> > brahmachari.In his youth he was a terrorist( at least the

british called him> > this way) but to many people he was a freedom fighter. (my version also)Upon> > taking disksha from his Guru,(gave up the freedom fighting days)and he has> > retired into the jungles for some 30 years to do continous

saddhana.> > According to some, he did't even talk to anyone for this period of time, as> > he has lived totally alone.> > > > It is from him that I have learned what I know about the

building blocks of> > the Universe- the aksharas. He has called this Vidya variously Dvani yoga,> > Kriya Yoga, Shabda yoga etc. Labels did't matter too much though.> > > > He has intiated us (one by one) into the science of using Bija

mantras> > properly. Each bija Mantra required a separate diksha. The Science (Vidya)> > is as exact as it possibly can be. Some Bija mantras " produced " only in> > inhalation, some others, only in exhalation.The exact technique

leaves> > nothing to the imagination.(In fact imagination is discouraged). The exact> > technique is a secret, it was and never will be published.Knowing it> > however, enables one, when reading various Tantras, to

understand what the> > writers have intended.> > > > Many Bija Mantras were taught, to some Saraswati Bija, others,Shiva Bija,yet> > othersLakshmi,Durga,Varma,occasionally Krodha,Kinkini,Kama, Etc

> > > > Guruji was up by 3 30 am every morning, and we naturally followed his> > example. We did saddhana all day. Guruji had awesome siddhis, which> > manifested with " alarming " ease, nearly all the

time.Naturally.His> > prescriprion for every problem in life, whether marital,financial,carrier or> > anything else was: SADDHANA. MORE SADDHANA.> > > > Now to the 4 levels of sound- as described by scholarly

Narasimha.> > > > One of us was freshly intitiated into the use and mysteries of Saraswati> > Bija. Guruji usually asked for fruits and flowers and some coins (Guru> > dakshina), then put up the picture of his Gurus (going back to

the great> > Matang Rishi), and gave the diksha.He had his own way of doing things, such> > as opening the spine (by his touch) and then almost inaudibly whispering the> > Mantra into the right ear. (please take note:

Panchang/Yoga/Hearing).> > > > He was nearly 90 when we met..> > > > Then the sadhak started doing Saraswati saddhana. All the time.> > > > Through Guruji's grace a few days(!) afterward there came a

moment when> > the Mantra just exploded.Exploded. There is no other ways to describe> > it.Sonic boom. Of course ordinary consciousness is shifted,enlarged at this> > moment. The sense of ego, " I " (how laughable)is gone, like a bad

dream.The> > Bija sound engulfs the meditator, envelopes the whole being. All is> > sound.The Saraswati Bija then starts to reveal itself, it's true sound> > more and more. AIM- as how we pronounce it -(Vaikhari level) is

just a> > faint, VERY faint replica, a shadow of the real thing. Then, Saraswati Bija> > will shift yet another " gear " upward, to the next level. Here the multitude> > of sounds becomes a single sweet sound- (emanating from the heart

> > region),and at this level, of course consciousness shift also into a> > different mode altogether.> > > > When the sadhak " came back " to his normal everyday consciousness

and related> > all this to Guruji, he just smiled and simply said: " Oh, you have heard> > Saraswati play her Veena " .> > > > (Technically, the explosion is a sign of prana and apana

uniting. It is> > unmistakable.Can be frightening in the beginning as it is very loud.)> > > > Guruji discouraged all mental speculations about the philosophical nature of> > Mantras, especially Bija Mantras. Saddhana.more Saddhana was his

constant> > advice.> > > > As always, he was right.> > > > > > > > I sincerely hope though that the small explanation above is somewhat> > useful, looking at the same thing, from a different angle.

> > > > > > > > With deep respect to all:> > > > > > > > AJ> > > > > > sohamsa , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@>

wrote:> > >> > > Namaste SS,> > > > > > Sabda (loosely translated as sound or vibration) has 4 levels -vaikhari,> > madhyama, pastanti and para. When moving parts of our gross body

(e.g. lips)> > move the gross bodies of objects around us (particles in air) and this> > vibration is perceived by the senses attached to the gross bodies of people> > around us (e.g. ears), that vibration is at the level of

vaikhari. When we> > are talking about pronunciation of mantras, we are essentially talking about> > vaikhari.> > > > > > But we are not just our sthoola sareera (gross body). There is

also a> > sookshma sareera (subtle body), kaarana sareera (causal body) and finally> > MahaKaarana sareera (cosmic body). Just as vibration in sthoola sareera> > creates vaikhari, vibrations in other levels also create

vibrations at other> > levels.> > > > > > The image you have in mind when you chant a mantra and the thoughts you> > are thinking when you chant a mantra go towards shaping the

subtle> > vibrations behind a mantra. They vibrate the space around you at the subtle> > level.> > > > > > Once you cause of vibration of space around you (at gross or

subtle> > level), it is there. One with an ability to perceive it can perceive it. Of> > course, the deity of your mantra does not receive just the gross vibration> > produced by you, but receives and responds to the entirety of

the vibrations> > produced by you at all levels.> > > > > > Vaikhari is the least powerful level and para is the most powerful level.> > > > > > All the scholarly preoccupation with the correct pronunciation

etc is a> > little trite. The devotion, sense of surrender and the ability to create the> > correct mental images and correct thoughts to accompany the chanting of the> > mantra are far more important.

> > > > > > Of course, it is helpful to pronounce the mantra correctly too. I am not> > saying ignore the correct pronunciation. Do your BEST to get it correct. But> > all I am saying is that that plays a small part and a bigger

part is played> > by other factors which are often ignored. Do NOT ignore those.> > > > > > Secondly, being a child as opposed to an arrogant scholar helps with gods.> > If you can be like a child who is lost by parents at a fair and

crying for> > them, it is easier to find god. As a matter of fact, we ARE almost like a> > clueless little children left by parents at the fair (of samsara)!> > > > > > Best regards,

> > > Narasimha> > > ----------------------------> > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana> > > Spirituality:

> > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > ----------------------------

> > > > > > > Dear Arpad,> > > > > > > > This is a very interesting acount you have given. It also raises a > > > > rhetoric question whether water ceases to exist as water if

called > > > > paani, aab etc. This is so far as gross items go. > > > > > > > > For mantras that act at a subtle level there can be 2 veiws or more:> > > >

> > > > 1. Correct pronunciation is a must (why then is there emphasis on the > > > > same while reciting vedas etc.) - or else rakshati and bhakshati can > > > > yeild different results (wonder if someone really evaluated

that)> > > > > > > > 2. Meaning/Essence of the mantra should be understood and the effect > > > > thus proceeds from there. > > > > > > > > Both veiws may be right in their own way.

> > > > > > > > A prayer may have no words, yet can be effective.> > > > > > > > Example of Valmiki reciting Mara-Mara is popular - whichever category > > > > that one falls in!

> > > > > > > > Thanx for your time.> > > > > > > > Best Regards,> > > > SS>

November 12, 2008

|| Om Gurave Namah ||Dear Jyotishas,Let me give some of my thoughts,1) All Spirituality is related to Atma Gyana and hence Atmakaaraka should be involved.2) 9th house is Dharma and light of God used in Drig Dasha. Drig Dasha is progress of 9th house over period of time. This is essential for Higher learnings. Without higher learnings, plain suffering would just make us poor (intellectually).

3) 8th house is sadhana and longevity in this world. Ability to transend this birth is indicated by 8th house. Niryaana Shula Dasha is progress of 8th house. It can also indicate suffering and death. But both spirituality and death are related. Like an Aghori who practices in Smashana, 8th house is needed to for our upliftment. Without 8th and having only 9th would may lead to too much fortune and may divert mind from spirituality. Like Kunti said in

My dear Krsna, Your Lordship has protected us from the poisonedcake, from a great fire, from cannibals, from the vicious assembly, from

sufferings during our exile in the forest, and from the battle wheregreat generals fought.... I wish that all those calamities would happenagain and again so that we could see You again and again, for seeing You

means that we will no longer see repeated births and deaths. (SB.1.8.24-25)The influence of 8th on Ak would (i.e Niryaana Shula Dasha) would give us Atma's views on sufferings). This makes sense to me.

Warm RegardsSanjay P

Shula

niryANasya vichArArthaM

kaishchichhUladashA smR^itA |

lagnasaptamato mR^ityubhayoryo

balavAn.h bhavet.h || 46.181||

tadAdirvishhame vipra

kramAdutkramataH same |

dashAbdAH sthiravattatra

balimArakabhe mR^itiH || 46.182||

181-182.

Some sages have designed the Shula Dasha for determining the time of death. In

this system the Dasha commences from Dhan, or Randhr, whichever is stronger. If

the Rasi is an odd one, the order of the Dasha Rasis will be onwards. It will

be backwards in the case of an even Rasi. The Dasha years in this system are,

as adopted for the Sthir Dasha. There is a possibility, that death appears in

the Dasha of the Marak Rasi, which has greater strength.

Dirga

lagnAd.h dharmasya

tad.hdR^ishhTarAshInAM cha dashAstataH |

dashamasya cha

tad.hdR^ishhTarAshInAM cha nayet.h punaH || 46.185||

ekAdashasya tad.hdR^ishhTarAshInAM

sthiravat.h samAH |

pravR^ittA dR^ig.h vashAdyasmAd.h

dR^ig.hdasheyaM tataH smR^itA || 46.186||

chare vyutkramato grAhyA

dR^ig.hyogyAH sthirabhe kramAt.h |

vishhame kramato dvandve rAshayo

vyutkramAt.h same || 46.187||

185-187.

In this system the order of the Dashas is, as follows: the Rasi, occupying

Dharm, the Rasis, receiving a Drishti from the Rasi in Dharm, the Rasi in Karm,

the Rasis, receiving a Drishti from the Rasi in Karm, the Rasi in Labh and the

Rasis, receiving a Drishti from the Rasi in Labh. As this system is mostly

based on Drishtis, it has been named, as Dirga Dasha. Three different processes

are adopted for the Movable, Fixed and Dual Rasis from Dharm, Karm and Labh.

According to them, Rasi, which receives a Drishti from the Movable Rasi, is

counted backwards and the Rasi, receiving a Drishti from the Fixed Rasi, is

counted onwards. In the case of the Dual Rasi, if it is odd, the counting is

onwards and the order is backwards in case of an even Rasi for the Rasis,

receiving a Drishti.

Notes.

The intention is, that from the point of view of Drishti the process of Rasi,

receiving a Drishti, should be started from the Rasi, which is nearest. In this

connection readers may refer to Rasi Drishtikathan Adhyaya, Cha. 8, Verse 9 and

the table after that.

2008/11/12 vedicastrostudent <vedicastrostudent