Guest guest Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 In India, all Indians are asked their gotra during ANY kind of puja; even a simple offering of flower at a temple visit let alone other bigger pujas and rituals. It is still unchanged. And it plays a huge role in weddings.Sarbani RathSent from my iPhoneOn Nov 27, 2008, at 5:37 AM, "lakshmikary" <lakshmikary wrote: Hare Rama Krishna Dear Sanjay P, Thanks for your comments.! Hope you are enjoying all the happiness of fatherhood! Ive been wondering from time to time, Gotras significance or importance in astrology, I mean, what do I need to know as an astrologer about Gotra, So far I see some people dont want to marry within their same Gotra(there are variations on this) Sometimes a persons Gotra is asked for before some offerings before a Deity at a temple. I am speculating that: When places werent so populated, in a small village everyone would know the members of a certain family and attached to that family line also were customs and specific lineage/parampara that was followed.Probably just by hearing the family name or Gotra name - everyone would know a whole host of info about them. This was lost in time due to people moving out of their familial geographic areas and ceasing to follow practices. There is conflicting info on gotra on the web. Will read more in Sanjays nakshatra work for more info. but main thing is it seems to be primarily a Brahminical(meaning people who followed religious and such practices ), and primarily related to paternal lineage. When looking a persons chart, how can we use Gotra info to help them other than the above.? Now, the difference /importance of the Kula Devata and the Gotra. Things have changed, in previous times people rarely left their immediate area and would tend to have the same Diety, Kula Devata, etc for a long time. Children would tend to choose same forms of worship as their parents.. Seems like locality would also have a lot to do with it. Anyway, if anyone has any other insight into Gotras relevance it would be nice to hear.Seems Kula Devata etc would fall into the general info about someone, while ISthadevata and Atmakaraka has more importance and relevance to current life/issues. Being from the west , it takes me a bit to orient myself on some of the terminology. I can relate to my fathers maternal and paternal lines as being Kshatriyas ,and maternal lines as Vaisya. But I guess since I doubt I have any "Brahmins" anywhere. Now if I wanted to relate to a Gotra. My Spiritual lineage or my astrological lineage?Or are they the same.? Take care. Lakshmi -- In sohamsa , "Sanjay Prabhakaran" <sanjaychettiar wrote: > > || Om Gurave Namah || > > Dear Lakshmiji, > > I do not know the exact way to figure out the Gotra from A2. Regarding the > total number of Gotra's also I am not sure. > > See if these help you, > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gotras > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotra > > But, My understanding is that All Gotra's have to fall under broadly seven > categories they are the Sapta Rishi (Sapta or Saptaamsa refers to creation > Vriddhi of the 4 dhi's). > > As mentioned in Pt. Sanjay Rath's Nakshatra book and other books they can be > assigned to 28 Nakshatra from Ashiwini onwards to Marichi, Vasishta, > Angirasa, Atri, Pulastya, Pulaha and Kratu. Noting the Janma nakshatra > should be more important is my take. This Janma Nakshatra gotra is also > taken for Gotra matching for marriage. > > Regarding the A2 or 2nd house in D20, Think it may show some specific forms > of the Kula devi (Or Devata). This would indicate the how the whole clan > behaves or Clan (Kula) Related karma. 2nd house is for Family and may > indicate all blood related people. > > For example, Let me take my D20. A2 falls in Martial house aries. My kula > devi is AngalaParameshwari. (Angara becomes Angala after word-conjunction I > think, I it could also refer to Angirasa rishi maybe, Agni is also belongs > to Angirasa gotra). > Now A2 lord is Mars conjoined Venus in Libra. So the diety is feminine form. > This Mars is also lord of 2nd house from Atmakaaraka (Soul level karma > toward kula). Now, In our family gathering you would usually see lot of heat > in terms of loud brawls etc . > > Sometimes I think the lineage may take a new kula devata or devi if there is > problem in getting progeny and family worships a particulary deity to extend > their lineage. Then the new Diety becomes the kula devi. Usually a Rishi or > Guru directs the family to do particular sadhana etc. In a story given by > our lineage, refer to this story http://www.24manai.com/24manai_history.asp. > Also Each sub-division within the same community can be assigned different > kula devi. I think these must be thought about by the Guru who originally > directs the family to match the karma of the community. > > In Lack of any such information I think, A person may generally worship the > 2nd lord from Ak in D20 as feminine form (I think this is mentioned in VRA?) > > Hope my little bit of information helped, maybe others can add with some > examples about their lineages etc. > > -Warm Regards > Sanjay P > > > +--------------+ > |Mo | |Su Md |Sa Ra | > | | | |Ke | > | | | | | > | | | | | > | | | | | > |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| > |JuR | | | > | | | | > | | | | > | | | | > | | Vimsamsa | | > |-----------| |-----------| > | | D-20 | | > | | | | > | | | | > | | | | > | | | | > |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| > | |As GL |MaR Me |AL | > | | |Ve HL | | > | | |Gk | | > | | | | | > | | | | | > +--------------+ > > Vimsamsa D-20 > +--------------+ > | \ / \ Me Ve / | > | \ / \ MaR / | > | \ / \ HL Gk / | > | \ / GL \ / | > | \ / \ / | > | x As x AL | > | / \ / \ | > | / \ / \ | > | / \ / \ | > | / \ 8 / \ | > | / \ / \ | > | JuR x | > | \ / \ / | > | \ / \ / | > | \ / \ / | > | \ / Md \ / | > | \ / \ / | > |Mo x Su x | > | / \ / \ | > | / \ / \ | > | / \ / \ | > | / \ / Sa \ | > | / \ / Ra Ke \ | > +--------------+ > > +--------------+ > | \ | | / | > | \ Md | | / | > | \ | | / | > | Sa \ Su | | Mo / JuR | > | \ | | / | > | Ra Ke \ | | / | > | \ | | / | > |---------------+---------------+---------------| > | | | | > | | | | > | | Vimsamsa | | > | | | | > | | D-20 | | > | | | | > | | | | > |---------------+---------------+---------------| > | / | | \ | > | / | MaR Me | \ | > | / | Ve HL | \ | > | / AL | Gk | As \ | > | / | | \ | > | / | | GL \ | > | / | | \ | > +---------------+---------------+---------------+ > > > > 2008/11/25 lakshmikary <lakshmikary > > > Hare Rama Krishna > > Dear Sanjay P, or anyone, > > Can you please tell me about the lineages? > > How many Gotra are there and can you tell me about the beginning lines? > > Solar, Moon, what > > else? > > Also family Gotra we see from A2. How do we intigrate this into current > > family lines, > > especially, non indian. > > thank-you, > > Lakshmi > > If anyone has references from some SJC lectures etc please share info on > > this topic , thanks. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 Hare Rama Krishna Dear Sarbani, Thanks for your note. When I have a puja done and I am asked, do I say I dont have one or something related to my spiritual lineage or astrological lineage, or both ? Or is it only a physical lineage..? Do you need to be physically related to the Gotra through familial lines? Hope Im expressing myself properly. Thank-you, Lakshmi --- Sarbani Rath <sarbani wrote: > In India, all Indians are asked their gotra during > ANY kind of puja; > even a simple offering of flower at a temple visit > let alone other > bigger pujas and rituals. It is still unchanged. And > it plays a huge > role in weddings. > Sarbani Rath > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 27, 2008, at 5:37 AM, " lakshmikary " > <lakshmikary > wrote: > > > Hare Rama Krishna > > Dear Sanjay P, > > Thanks for your comments.! Hope you are enjoying > all the happiness > > of fatherhood! > > Ive been wondering from time to time, Gotras > significance or > > importance in astrology, > > I mean, what do I need to know as an astrologer > about Gotra, > > So far I see some people dont want to marry within > their same Gotra > > (there are variations > > on this) > > Sometimes a persons Gotra is asked for before some > offerings before > > a Deity at a temple. > > I am speculating that: > > When places werent so populated, in a small > village everyone would > > know the members of > > a certain family and attached to that family line > also were customs > > and specific > > lineage/parampara that was followed.Probably just > by hearing the > > family name or Gotra > > name - everyone would know a whole host of info > about them. > > This was lost in time due to people moving out of > their familial > > geographic areas and > > ceasing to follow practices. > > > > There is conflicting info on gotra on the web. > > Will read more in Sanjays nakshatra work for more > info. > > but main thing is it seems to be primarily a > Brahminical(meaning > > people who followed > > religious and such practices ), and primarily > related to paternal > > lineage. > > When looking a persons chart, how can we use Gotra > info to help them > > other than the > > above.? > > > > Now, the difference /importance of the Kula Devata > and the Gotra. > > Things have changed, in previous times people > rarely left their > > immediate area and would > > tend to have the same Diety, Kula Devata, etc for > a long time. > > Children would tend to > > choose same forms of worship as their parents.. > Seems like locality > > would also have a lot > > to do with it. Anyway, if anyone has any other > insight into Gotras > > relevance it would be > > nice to hear.Seems Kula Devata etc would fall into > the general info > > about someone, while > > ISthadevata and Atmakaraka has more importance and > relevance to > > current life/issues. > > Being from the west , it takes me a bit to orient > myself on some of > > the terminology. > > I can relate to my fathers maternal and paternal > lines as being > > Kshatriyas ,and maternal > > lines as Vaisya. > > But I guess since I doubt I have any " Brahmins " > anywhere. > > Now if I wanted to relate to a Gotra. My Spiritual > lineage or my > > astrological lineage?Or are > > they the same.? > > Take care. > > Lakshmi > > > > -- In sohamsa , " Sanjay > Prabhakaran " > > <sanjaychettiar wrote: > > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah || > > > > > > Dear Lakshmiji, > > > > > > I do not know the exact way to figure out the > Gotra from A2. > > Regarding the > > > total number of Gotra's also I am not sure. > > > > > > See if these help you, > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gotras > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotra > > > > > > But, My understanding is that All Gotra's have > to fall under > > broadly seven > > > categories they are the Sapta Rishi (Sapta or > Saptaamsa refers to > > creation > > > Vriddhi of the 4 dhi's). > > > > > > As mentioned in Pt. Sanjay Rath's Nakshatra book > and other books > > they can be > > > assigned to 28 Nakshatra from Ashiwini onwards > to Marichi, Vasishta, > > > Angirasa, Atri, Pulastya, Pulaha and Kratu. > Noting the Janma > > nakshatra > > > should be more important is my take. This Janma > Nakshatra gotra is > > also > > > taken for Gotra matching for marriage. > > > > > > Regarding the A2 or 2nd house in D20, Think it > may show some > > specific forms > > > of the Kula devi (Or Devata). This would > indicate the how the > > whole clan > > > behaves or Clan (Kula) Related karma. 2nd house > is for Family and > > may > > > indicate all blood related people. > > > > > > For example, Let me take my D20. A2 falls in > Martial house aries. > > My kula > > > devi is AngalaParameshwari. (Angara becomes > Angala after word- > > conjunction I > > > think, I it could also refer to Angirasa rishi > maybe, Agni is also > > belongs > > > to Angirasa gotra). > > > Now A2 lord is Mars conjoined Venus in Libra. So > the diety is > > feminine form. > > > This Mars is also lord of 2nd house from > Atmakaaraka (Soul level > > karma > > > toward kula). Now, In our family gathering you > would usually see > > lot of heat > > > in terms of loud brawls etc . > > > > > > Sometimes I think the lineage may take a new > kula devata or devi > > if there is > > > problem in getting progeny and family worships a > particulary deity > > to extend > > > their lineage. Then the new Diety becomes the > kula devi. Usually a > > Rishi or > > > Guru directs the family to do particular sadhana > etc. In a story > > given by > > > our lineage, refer to this story > http://www.24manai.com/24manai_history.asp > > . > > > Also Each sub-division within the same community > can be assigned > > different > > > kula devi. I think these must be thought about > by the Guru who > > originally > > > directs the family to match the karma of the > community. > > > > > > In Lack of any such information I think, A > person may generally > > worship the > > > 2nd lord from Ak in D20 as feminine form (I > think this is > > mentioned in VRA?) > > > > > > Hope my little bit of information helped, maybe > others === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 namaste, On the web, the only decent site on this subject was the " Iyer Heritage Site " . It has been defunct for a few years. However, I just checked, and it has been preserved by the " wayback machine " project. http://web.archive.org/web/20051216210026/http://www.bharatavarsha.com/iyer.html Gotras were also a social concept. As such, due to societal needs, it was subject to societal nechange. It cannot be understood without trying to understand the social history of the time. For example, see this diagramatic representation of a small portion of gotras captured graphically. http://web.archive.org/web/20060127190024/www.bharatavarsha.com/iyer/gotra/gotra\ graphic.htm > When I have a puja done and I am asked, do I say I For what purposes At the beginning of the puja, during the sankalpa, we say, (a) " what we are doing " , (b) " why we are doing it " , © " who is doing it " , (d) " when we are doing it " and (e) " where we are doing it " . As a part of © who is doing it, we say our name, gotra etc. i.e, the gotra is only a part of the information that used to define " who I am " . So, simply put, the question you should ask yourself is -- " In the sankalpa, I identify myself as Lakshmi Kary. Does saying a particular gotra help identifying myself furthur? " If the answer is yes, include the gotra. But, if it won't help identify you, what purpose does it serve? i.e., in a sankalpa, you include the information that identifies you. Inventing information which does not identify you is of little use. It would be akin to adding " Esquire " to your name. Some people do take a " gotra " from their spiritual lineages. If the acharya agrees, and if they are so strongly associated with the tradition that it identifies them, it can make sense. In temple contexts, many people are saying " shiva gotra " , or " vishnu gotra " when asked. More recently, some people are saying " sai gotra " etc. This is all a result of the embarrasment around saying " I don't have / know my gotra " . bhavadIyaH, ajit On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 7:51 PM, Lakshmi Kary <lakshmikary wrote: > Hare Rama Krishna > Dear Sarbani, > Thanks for your note. > When I have a puja done and I am asked, do I say I > dont have one or something related to my spiritual > lineage or astrological lineage, or both ? > Or is it only a physical lineage..? Do you need to be > physically related to the Gotra through familial > lines? > Hope Im expressing myself properly. > Thank-you, > Lakshmi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.