Guest guest Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 MichalleThere are some points which are very grey and are not defined very well to be understood by say a person of my ability.There are some truth in what you say and some of which I would like to dis agree with you. From jyotish remedies what you say is absolutely correct and a wrong prescription of a mantra can do more damage than heal. However when one does not able to perform a specific mantra or fast in a particular day because of some reason, it does not mean that ha can not do it in any other time, as in his sankalpam he would have prayed for the same deity and his offerings would reach the said deity if sincerely offered.The following is from Gita, Tapas means austerity or penance. There are many rules and definitions in the Vedas which apply here, like rising early in the morning and taking a bath. Sometimes it is very troublesome to rise early in the morning, but whatever voluntary trouble one may suffer in this way is called penance. Similarly, there are prescriptions for fasting on certain days of the month. But if one determines to make advancement in the science of god, he should accept such bodily troubles which are recommended. However, one should not fast unnecessarily or against Vedic injunctions. One should not fast for some political purpose; that is described in Bhagavad-gita as fasting in ignorance, and anything done in ignorance or passion does not lead to spiritual advancement. Everything done in the mode of goodness does advance one, however, and fasting done in terms of the Vedic injunctions enriches one in spiritual knowledge. Any how, Gita is a vast ocean and you would end up with different understandings , and the point I am saying is, you sincerely offer the prayers and/or fast (as both of them are not materiallistic), according to your capabilities,(provided health permitting) and your prayers will bring you the fruits.Thanks and with best regardsLakshmanHare Rama Krsna ||Dear Narasimha,Claims that you can advise fasting on any day is equally "scary".Saying "NEVER" is scary too. It implies possessing a very high understanding.For example, I have met many people who practice various forms of brahmacharya and have seen it do a lot of harm that entering into a loving relationship could have prevented. I have seen people do a lot of harm to themselves through meditation techniques without proper guidance.Mahatma Gandhi was also brahmacharya during his 'experiments' ? Would you say no harm was done?Medicine can be harmful if not properly prescribed, or it can have side effects, some of which can be 'dangerous'. This can be extended to Vedic remedies also. A wrongly prescribed mantra may harm a person because it did not give the results the person was expecting. This is a *simple* example.It is not (in my opinion) illogical to suggest that harm or danger could be the result of performing an action (such as fasting) because that action may have *contact* with malefic planets/houses/ combinations etc.What is illogical is suggesting that there are certain actions (like fasting) that are immune and incapable of having bad results! The Gita teaches that results are not always assured simply because of certain actions. So where is this action with 100% guarenteed results?____________ _________ _________ _________ ____My feeling is that there may be something else on your mind, that we're really not addressing here regarding Jyotish and your relationship with it. If so, then let us know. If not, then please excuse me.Respectfully,Michal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Hare Rama Krsna ||Dear Lakshman,I agree with you fully. This is exactly what everyone should believe.However, if we can be more specific with Jyotish, then that will benefit immensely.Regards,MichalLakshman Brahma <lbrahmasohamsa Sent: Tuesday, 10 February, 2009 3:46:00 AMRe: Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING MichalleThere are some points which are very grey and are not defined very well to be understood by say a person of my ability.There are some truth in what you say and some of which I would like to dis agree with you. From jyotish remedies what you say is absolutely correct and a wrong prescription of a mantra can do more damage than heal. However when one does not able to perform a specific mantra or fast in a particular day because of some reason, it does not mean that ha can not do it in any other time, as in his sankalpam he would have prayed for the same deity and his offerings would reach the said deity if sincerely offered.The following is from Gita, Tapas means austerity or penance. There are many rules and definitions in the Vedas which apply here, like rising early in the morning and taking a bath. Sometimes it is very troublesome to rise early in the morning, but whatever voluntary trouble one may suffer in this way is called penance. Similarly, there are prescriptions for fasting on certain days of the month. But if one determines to make advancement in the science of god, he should accept such bodily troubles which are recommended. However, one should not fast unnecessarily or against Vedic injunctions. One should not fast for some political purpose; that is described in Bhagavad-gita as fasting in ignorance, and anything done in ignorance or passion does not lead to spiritual advancement. Everything done in the mode of goodness does advance one, however, and fasting done in terms of the Vedic injunctions enriches one in spiritual knowledge. Any how, Gita is a vast ocean and you would end up with different understandings , and the point I am saying is, you sincerely offer the prayers and/or fast (as both of them are not materiallistic) , according to your capabilities, (provided health permitting) and your prayers will bring you the fruits.Thanks and with best regardsLakshmanHare Rama Krsna ||Dear Narasimha,Claims that you can advise fasting on any day is equally "scary".Saying "NEVER" is scary too. It implies possessing a very high understanding.For example, I have met many people who practice various forms of brahmacharya and have seen it do a lot of harm that entering into a loving relationship could have prevented. I have seen people do a lot of harm to themselves through meditation techniques without proper guidance.Mahatma Gandhi was also brahmacharya during his 'experiments' ? Would you say no harm was done?Medicine can be harmful if not properly prescribed, or it can have side effects, some of which can be 'dangerous'. This can be extended to Vedic remedies also. A wrongly prescribed mantra may harm a person because it did not give the results the person was expecting. This is a *simple* example.It is not (in my opinion) illogical to suggest that harm or danger could be the result of performing an action (such as fasting) because that action may have *contact* with malefic planets/houses/ combinations etc.What is illogical is suggesting that there are certain actions (like fasting) that are immune and incapable of having bad results! The Gita teaches that results are not always assured simply because of certain actions. So where is this action with 100% guarenteed results?____________ _________ _________ _________ ____My feeling is that there may be something else on your mind, that we're really not addressing here regarding Jyotish and your relationship with it. If so, then let us know. If not, then please excuse me.Respectfully,Michal Get the world's best email - Xtra Mail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 om namo bhagavate narasimhaya Dear Members , The rule is that if we can use detailed rules and we skip it, then its ignorance and that will not be treated in the same line as for the person who does the upaya in any time / manner due to lack of access to more detailed knowledge about the same. Regards Rafal Gendarz SJC Jyotish Guru -------------- Consultations & Pages http://rohinaa.com rafal Hare Rama Krsna || Dear Lakshman, I agree with you fully. This is exactly what everyone should believe. However, if we can be more specific with Jyotish, then that will benefit immensely. Regards, Michal Lakshman Brahma <lbrahma (AT) (DOT) com> sohamsa@ .com Tuesday, 10 February, 2009 3:46:00 AM Re: Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING Michalle There are some points which are very grey and are not defined very well to be understood by say a person of my ability. There are some truth in what you say and some of which I would like to dis agree with you. From jyotish remedies what you say is absolutely correct and a wrong prescription of a mantra can do more damage than heal. However when one does not able to perform a specific mantra or fast in a particular day because of some reason, it does not mean that ha can not do it in any other time, as in his sankalpam he would have prayed for the same deity and his offerings would reach the said deity if sincerely offered. The following is from Gita, Tapas means austerity or penance. There are many rules and definitions in the Vedas which apply here, like rising early in the morning and taking a bath. Sometimes it is very troublesome to rise early in the morning, but whatever voluntary trouble one may suffer in this way is called penance. Similarly, there are prescriptions for fasting on certain days of the month. But if one determines to make advancement in the science of god, he should accept such bodily troubles which are recommended. However, one should not fast unnecessarily or against Vedic injunctions. One should not fast for some political purpose; that is described in Bhagavad-gita as fasting in ignorance, and anything done in ignorance or passion does not lead to spiritual advancement. Everything done in the mode of goodness does advance one, however, and fasting done in terms of the Vedic injunctions enriches one in spiritual knowledge. Any how, Gita is a vast ocean and you would end up with different understandings , and the point I am saying is, you sincerely offer the prayers and/or fast (as both of them are not materiallistic) , according to your capabilities, (provided health permitting) and your prayers will bring you the fruits. Thanks and with best regards Lakshman Hare Rama Krsna || Dear Narasimha, Claims that you can advise fasting on any day is equally "scary". Saying "NEVER" is scary too. It implies possessing a very high understanding. For example, I have met many people who practice various forms of brahmacharya and have seen it do a lot of harm that entering into a loving relationship could have prevented. I have seen people do a lot of harm to themselves through meditation techniques without proper guidance. Mahatma Gandhi was also brahmacharya during his 'experiments' ? Would you say no harm was done? Medicine can be harmful if not properly prescribed, or it can have side effects, some of which can be 'dangerous'. This can be extended to Vedic remedies also. A wrongly prescribed mantra may harm a person because it did not give the results the person was expecting. This is a *simple* example. It is not (in my opinion) illogical to suggest that harm or danger could be the result of performing an action (such as fasting) because that action may have *contact* with malefic planets/houses/ combinations etc. What is illogical is suggesting that there are certain actions (like fasting) that are immune and incapable of having bad results! The Gita teaches that results are not always assured simply because of certain actions. So where is this action with 100% guarenteed results? ____________ _________ _________ _________ ____ My feeling is that there may be something else on your mind, that we're really not addressing here regarding Jyotish and your relationship with it. If so, then let us know. If not, then please excuse me. Respectfully, Michal Get the world's best email - Xtra Mail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Satyam Bruyat Priyam Bruyat Dear Rafal, Why crate an exclusive community? We would like to read Sanjayji’s comments firsthand too. No one is perfect and accepting that will make all including gurus feel humble. Best Regards Ramesh Ramesh F. Gangaramani 7506, Eaglewalk Ct., Apt C Baltimore, MD, 21237 (USA) Tel: 410-588-6244 Email: rgangaramani sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz Monday, February 09, 2009 5:14 AM sohamsa Re: Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING om namo bhagavate narasimhaya Dear Members , Why not to create forum for SJC Gurus, when these addings are shared by Sanjayji? Then there would not be any shameful situations that the teachers are uninformed about the basics and clients are safely guided. Regards Rafal Gendarz SJC Jyotish Guru -------------- Consultations & Pages http://rohinaa.com rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com Hare Rama Krsna || Dear Swee, If you are fasting during a tithi, then it is the tithi which is important. When fasting on a particular day, then it is the day that is important. This is about intention. When certain tithi and vara combine then there are certain effects and this is panchaang, which we know has many uses advising when to do what. Point is, fasting and other austerities are based on knowledge - how, why, when etc. Otherwise why would we do these? This knowledge can come from a Guru as you have pointed out. If you are advised that fasting on a particular tithi/vara is not good, but your Guru has sanctioned it, then that will be evident from your chart. There are many provisos and overriding factors to any rule. But we must first learn all the basic rules, that are typical and apply to most people and situations, before we can learn all the posible ways they can be modified. We can only build from the ground up (and I hear that the view from the top is most splendid). .... Opportunities to further knowledge and understanding may be thwarted by claims that Jyotish is imperfect, arbitrary, and corrupted. But this is to be expected at this time. Doing anything at any time (sincerely) is the kind of new age advice I expect on the Oprah Winfrey show, not from someone with Jyotish learning and proven achievements. Respectfully, Michal Swee Chan <swee (AT) coppernet (DOT) zm> sohamsa@ .com Monday, 9 February, 2009 7:53:19 PM Re: Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING Jaya Jagannatha Dear Michal, Namaste Claims that you can advise fasting on any day is equally " scary " . May I please? Since it was I who asked the question to Ajay regarding my fasting on dvadasi when ekadasi is not pure and Ajay said that if I were to fast on dvadasi, it will create a dosa for me. What dosa and how?? (I'm still waiting for an answer). A tithi can fall on any day/vaara, so I do not know why you are picking on this to argue about. Experiments on oneself will always do harm. But you also know that one who has a Guru and follows Guru's instruction works according to his destiny with Guru's grace. Even the greatest of rishis died unnatural deaths and they were the ones who " saw " the answers/mantras. So what do you have to say to this? love, Swee On 9 Feb 2009, at 03:19, Michal Dziwulski wrote: Hare Rama Krsna || Dear Narasimha, Claims that you can advise fasting on any day is equally " scary " . Saying " NEVER " is scary too. It implies possessing a very high understanding. For example, I have met many people who practice various forms of brahmacharya and have seen it do a lot of harm that entering into a loving relationship could have prevented. I have seen people do a lot of harm to themselves through meditation techniques without proper guidance. Mahatma Gandhi was also brahmacharya during his 'experiments' ? Would you say no harm was done? Medicine can be harmful if not properly prescribed, or it can have side effects, some of which can be 'dangerous'. This can be extended to Vedic remedies also. A wrongly prescribed mantra may harm a person because it did not give the results the person was expecting. This is a *simple* example. It is not (in my opinion) illogical to suggest that harm or danger could be the result of performing an action (such as fasting) because that action may have *contact* with malefic planets/houses/ combinations etc. What is illogical is suggesting that there are certain actions (like fasting) that are immune and incapable of having bad results! The Gita teaches that results are not always assured simply because of certain actions. So where is this action with 100% guarenteed results? ____________ _________ _________ _________ ____ My feeling is that there may be something else on your mind, that we're really not addressing here regarding Jyotish and your relationship with it. If so, then let us know. If not, then please excuse me. Respectfully, Michal Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> sohamsa@ .com Monday, 9 February, 2009 11:17:45 AM Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING Namaste, Khoa is an analogy. Depending on the nature of milk, one may have to cook a little longer or shorter. Similarly, depending on which weekday or tithi you fast on, results may take a little longer or shorter. But, to say that fasting on a specific weekday or tithi causes " dangers " and " serious doshas " is illogical. Regarding the question on gemstones, I see that you are asking me questions without reading what I wrote earlier. I wrote: " Gem stones may harm when used incorrectly. But, austerities like prayers, fasting, mouna vrata and brahmacharya will NEVER do you any harm. If your body can take fasting, you can do it on any weekday or tithi without too many calculations. " > I don't think anyone here is trying to scare anyone. Well, claims that fasting on a specific weekday or tithi in a chart " angers Vishnu " or brings " dangers " or causes " serious doshas " can scare some unnecessarily. Best regards, Narasimha ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- sohamsa@ ..com, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@. ...> wrote: > > Hare Rama Krsna || > > Dear Narasimha, > > I am trying to understand this statement: > > > I did not say all days and tithis are the same. Of > course, there is some difference. But, it is not as big as being made > here. > To make khoa, whether one uses cow milk or buffalo milk > or milk of a brown cow or a black cow or a Jersey cow or another cow does make > some difference. > > So you are saying Monday (Moon) is cow milk, Tuesday (Mars) is brown cow, Wednesday (Mercury) is Jersey cow etc? Weekdays are all the same, but they are like different cows? > > Another question: > > If you advise fasting on any day (because, as you say, all days are similar), can you advise any gemstone? All gemstones are similar (very hard, colourful, and expensive:). Any mantra, or hey, just any sounds in a sequence since all sounds are similar? Like: asymandhgarafatatda namah? > > I don't think anyone here is trying to scare anyone. It is *simply* that certain medicines can have side effects. It is our responsibility to know which medicines to prescribe and to ensure that the person does not experience any unwanted side effects. You would expect that of a doctor wouldn't you? Last thing I want is to see a physician saying just choose any medicine! Of course water is medicine and can be used by all (like japa), but here we are talking about specific medicine (like fasting at a particular time for UL) for a specific illness (not able to find a partner/compromise) . > > Your Aquarian (philosophical) Moon (thoughts) please. > Respectfully, > Michal > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr > sohamsa@ ..com > Monday, 9 February, 2009 6:03:54 AM > Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING > > > Namaste Sanjay and > friends, > > My answers are in red and prefixed > with " [Narasimha] " . > > <<<<<< Begin > quote <<<<<< > > > >> tithi. The basic > point is that Upapada is a rashi and carries energy > > > >> of > Vara or day. If you fast on the day ruled by tithi of the 2nd > > > > >> lord, you are bringing the jala energy to vara, and gandanta > may > > > >> occur, and spouse may come into a danger. So, what is > the way out. > > > > Why does a rashi carry the energy of vaara only > and not that of the tithi???? Why does rashi represent vaara or fire? > > > > [sanjay Rath:] Because Raashi were created by Surya and for doing so > Surya took 12 forms called the Dvadasa Aditya...Narasimha you ask this?? What is > happening? > > > > After all, Rudra rules > over the element of fire and Gouri rules over the element of water and one > worships Gouri at the time of marriage. Moreover, Venus (water) is the karaka > for marriage. So one could even say that UL/marriage is represented by water > element and fasting on UL lord's tithi brings the element of water (prosperity > and well-being) to one's marriage (UL)? One could even say that fasting on the > weekday of UL lord should be prohibited as it brings the fire element > represented by weekday to the water of UL and causes " gandanta " ! > > > > [sanjay Rath:] UL is the Maya and is associated with the Raashi > Narasimha. It is the 12L which is the creator of the UL...just as the mother > Gouri creates everything through the shakti of the graha, all the arudha are > created by her due to the lordships of the planets. So fasting on the tithi > lorded by the 12th lord will be a *more correct* answer. > >>>>>> End > quote >>>>>> > > [Narasimha] We always say that houses > (truth) are represented by Sun (aatman) and arudha padas (maya) by Moon > (mind). > > Thus, 12th house is the actual > creator and UL is the apparent creator in the field of maya. Houses (truth) > should actually be associated with Sun (aatman) and Shiva (and not Gouri), while > arudha padas (perception) should actually be associated with Moon (mind) and > Gouri. After all, that is what we do in the tripod method in dasa > judgment. > > Thus, it is actually more logical to > say that 12th house and 12th lord imbibe the agni tattva of Sun and UL and UL > lord imbibe the jala tattva of Moon. > > Is the above " *more correct* answer " > based on your own thinking or is it from a classic or from > tradition? > > <<<<<< Begin quote > <<<<<< > > The mantra one meditates with at the end of a > day's fasting is far more effective than at other times. The conservation of > energy otherwise spent on digestion or speech will enable far more effective > mantra meditation. So fast or keep mouna and then meditate with a mantra, to > maximize the effect of the mantra. > > > > [sanjay Rath:] I do not > agree with this. Correct eating is the best blessing for good mantra practise. > On days when one fasts the mind is troubled by hunger causing the stomach to > burn and churn and this disturbs mantra japa. Correct eating (alpa aahaara) is > many many times better than complete fasting. > > >>>>>> End > quote >>>>>> > > [Narasimha] Well, if one cannot > fast, then one is destined to expend some energy on digestion after all and not > focus all energy on the mantra. But the bottomline is that shastras say that one should meditate either without or with > very little food (niraahaaro mitaahaaro). In any case, I hope we agree that > meditation sessions after heavy eating are heavily restrained in > effectiveness. > > <<<<<< Begin > quote <<<<< Seriously, however, this kind of stretching of > gandanta concepts is quite illogical. > > > > [sanjay Rath:] It is not > stretching ... it is the very definition of gandanta – the interface between > fire and water. Put a burning match in a glass of water, the fire dies...There > are other Ganda’s in the chart but they are not anta (ends). Take Chitra ganda > between Kanya and Tula. > > >>>>>> End > quote >>>>>> > > [Narasimha] Putting a burning > match in a glass of water does indeed kill fire. But the question is of > contact. If I am thinking of fire in my mind while standing in water, it does > not kill the fire. There is no contact. > > My point is that the examples given > have no real identifiable contact between water and fire. > > One can be creative and come up with > a lot of theories. For example, one can say that Moon and Venus are jala tattva > and all rasis show agni tattva (then why are some rasis marked as agni rasis and > some as water rasis etc) and hence the sign occupied by Moon and Venus cause > contact between water and fire. Then one can say fasting on the weekdays of the > dispositors of Moon and Venus causes gandanta and serious danger. > > It is not enough to show some fire > and some water. See what counts as contact. Otherwise, one will engage in > illogical extrapolations. > > <<<<<< Begin quote > <<<<<< > > Three years back you said you > are leaving jyotish....then again you told me two years back and again recently > that you are leaving jyotish. Now it is getting very evident that *jyotish is leaving you*. The knowledge of Jyotish is PERFECT – individuals embody it > in different levels of their understanding and intelligence. > > >>>>>> End > quote >>>>>> > > [Narasimha] Nothing is permanent. What is one's cannot > be taken away. And one cannot cling on to what is not one's. Some rejoice when > it seems like something comes and cry when it seems like something leaves. Some > impassionately observe as things seem to come and go and do what they see as > their dharma with the things they seem to have. > > Just a factual > correction though: I never > said I was leaving Jyotish. For a few years after my spiritual master entered my > life, my interest in other things went down (though I continued to do other > things) and my focus on spiritual sadhana intensified. So I said that my > interest in Jyotish was very low. However, my guru gave me a task later. He > wanted me to study the teachings of Parasara > independently, meditate on them and share my interpretations with the > world. He said I was very passionate in my Jyotish activities earlier, and > he wanted me to do the same now but dispassionately and without an attachment. > He felt that I still have a contribution to make to Jyotish and wants me to > do it as an unattached karma. His word is everything for me. > > What I told you recently is not that I was leaving Jyotish but what I said above. > > However, if your judgment is correct and if > Jyotish is indeed " leaving " me, I am sure my spiritual guru will realize it > sooner or later and change his command to me. > > <<<<<< Begin > quote <<<<<< > > I can categorically declare one > thing with utmost confidence. You pick any weekday or tithi and take a vow to > fast or do mouna vrata (remain silent) on that weekday or tithi and meditate > with a particular mantra (any) at the end of the day. You can take a vow to keep > that practice for a certain duration of time (say, a few months or years) for a > specific purpose. Take a vow and keep the vrata for the duration. If > brahmacharya can be kept for the duration of the vrata, there is nothing like > it! > > > > [sanjay Rath:] This is a fine statement but then you > seem to be saying that the Puranas and other teachings of the seers is of not > much relevance. Of course you are right as it will be spiritually beneficial. > For example, a person wishing to marry should not fast on UL days and should > choose any day (all days are the same) or any tithi (all tithi are the same) and > start fasting and do a mantra (any mantra!!) and then in a few days, or (maybe) > a few months (or maybe) a few years ... or maybe (what you did not say), a few > lifetimes, the marriage will happen! I cannot say you are wrong, so I agree that > what you say is right. > > >>>>>> End > quote >>>>>> > > [Narasimha] This is a gross > exaggeration. > > Is all that is being taught and > practiced now strictly from " Puranas and other teachings of the > seers " ? > > I did not say all days and tithis are the same. Of > course, there is some difference. But, it is not as big as being made > here. > > To make khoa, whether one uses cow milk or buffalo milk > or milk of a brown cow or a black cow or a Jersey cow or another cow does make > some difference. But it is secondary. To say that " danger " and " serious doshas " > (see the quoted mails for such claims) can be caused by a wrong choice is > wrong. To say that a wrong choice means khoa will take 100 years to make is also > a gross exaggeration. > > The main thing is that you need milk and sugar. If one > is confused by endless claims of khoa making consultants and ends up not making > khoa at all, that will be sad. In such a case, one can simply pick some milk or the other, take sugar and start cooking khoa. It will take an extra half > hour, but the job will be done. > > I request Jyotishis to behave responsibly and humbly > and not engage in scare-mongering and say that a speicifc austerity (fasting on > a specific weekday or tithi in a chart) can cause " danger " and " serious > doshas " . No wonder some spiritual teachers look down upon Jyotish and dismiss > it. Such unbalanced attitude and self-importance from us does not help our > cause! > > Yes, Jyotish is helpful, but let us not oversell it or overplay the importance.. . > > <<<<<< Begin > quote <<<<<< > > Gem stones may harm when used > incorrectly. But, austerities like prayers, fasting, mouna vrata and > brahmacharya will NEVER do you any harm. If your body can take fasting, you can > do it on any weekday or tithi without too many calculations. > > > > > [sanjay Rath:] Brahmacharya is good for someone planning to have a baby or one > who cannot conceive and this is kept for some period before the appointed date > of nisheka. Brahmacharya is good for marriage?! I think you are mistaking > abstinence from physical union as Brahmacharya. Oh no its so > different. > > >>>>>> End > quote >>>>>> > > [Narasimha] Of course, > brahmacharya is much more, but also very difficult for most. Even physical celibacy is a good enough austerity. Physical > celibacy over an extended period of time increases the efficacy of other > austerities such as fasting, mouna vrata, meditation and > homam. > > Best > regards, > Narasimha > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > Do > a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > Do > Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > Free > Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > Free > Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > Sri > Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > sohamsa@ .com, " Sanjay Rath " > <sjrath@> wrote: > > > > om paramesthi gurave namah > > > > Dear Narasimha > > > > Just added a few thoughts and questions > since we are on the topic of spirituality, which is not my forte. So I am always > seeking to learn. > > > > With Warm Regards > > > > Sanjay > Rath > > > > http://srath. com http://sohamsa. com http:// .org > > > > 15B > Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India > > > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > 06 > February 2009 00:48 > > sohamsa@ .com > > Cc: > > > Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING > > > > Namaste > friends, > > > > I would like to express my reservations on a couple of > issues. It is funny that I should be typing this email on an Ekadashi day, when > many Vaishnavas fast irrespective of their horoscopes. > > > > [sanjay > Rath:] I write on dvadasi when so many vasihnava also fast and keep great > austerities. J Any difference? > > > > > >> Here is my point > and view about the question raised. 2nd bhava is > > > >> the bhava > of Vishnu, sustainer, and if we fast on the day of UL in > > > >> > 2nd house, we bring insult to Vishnu who provides the food for us. > > > > My dear Zoran, please allow me to express my disagreement. > > > > Austerities can never be seen as an insult to Vishnu. Self-deprivation > of 2nd house matters such as food (fasting) or speech (mouna vrata - vow of > silence) are austerities. Giving up food or speech is not an insult to Vishnu > just as giving up sex (i.e. brahmacharya) is not an insult to Sukracharya > (Venus). > > > > [sanjay Rath:] I though Brahma was very angry that his > sons decided not to have progeny and stayed celibate. So He created others. Why > was Brahma angry when his sons remained celibate? Why should Sukracharya be > angry if someone is celibate? How is it an insult or not an insult to > Sukracharya? You are taking planet signification of Venus for 7H ...and linking > this to creation process...which is wrong Narasimha. Brahma is seen from lords > of dusthana 6, 8 and 12 from lagna or 7th which is....you know this.There is > nothing wrong with the 7th house as it is necessary for procreation. It is only > the link of this with the Brahma graha that causes it to become a serious > shad-ripu. Married people are as eligible for moksha as unmarried ones and > bachelors. It depends on the following of dharma and ashrama. > > > > > Various gods bestow various things on us, some at the gross physical level and > some at the subtle spiritual level. As we overcome our dependendency on gross > things, we make progress at the subtle level. > > > > If one eats food, > a good amount of internal fire (and subtle internal energy associated with it) > is used for digesting it and for generating physical energy from it. If one > fasts, that subtle energy is unused and available for other things. This is a > tremendous benefit. As a result, one can better digest mantras and spiritual > food available all around one. > > > > The mantra one meditates with at > the end of a day's fasting is far more effective than at other times. The > conservation of energy otherwise spent on digestion or speech will enable far > more effective mantra meditation. So fast or keep mouna and then meditate with a > mantra, to maximize the effect of the mantra. > > > > [sanjay Rath:] I > do not agree with this. Correct eating is the best blessing for good mantra > practise. On days when one fasts the mind is troubled by hunger causing the > stomach to burn and churn and this disturbs mantra japa. Correct eating (alpa > aahaara) is many many times better than complete fasting. > > > > > > >> However, to be honest, I have not heard this about 2nd lord and > > > > >> tithi. The basic point is that Upapada is a rashi and carries > energy > > > >> of Vara or day. If you fast on the day ruled by > tithi of the 2nd > > > >> lord, you are bringing the jala energy to > vara, and gandanta may > > > >> occur, and spouse may come into a > danger. So, what is the way out. > > > > Why does a rashi carry the > energy of vaara only and not that of the tithi???? Why does rashi represent > vaara or fire? > > > > [sanjay Rath:] Because Raashi were created by > Surya and for doing so Surya took 12 forms called the Dvadasa Aditya...Narasimha > you ask this?? What is happening? > > > > After all, Rudra rules over > the element of fire and Gouri rules over the element of water and one worships > Gouri at the time of marriage. Moreover, Venus (water) is the karaka for > marriage. So one could even say that UL/marriage is represented by water element > and fasting on UL lord's tithi brings the element of water (prosperity and > well-being) to one's marriage (UL)? One could even say that fasting on the > weekday of UL lord should be prohibited as it brings the fire element > represented by weekday to the water of UL and causes " gandanta " ! > > > > [sanjay Rath:] UL is the Maya and is associated with the Raashi > Narasimha. It is the 12L which is the creator of the UL...just as the mother > Gouri creates everything through the shakti of the graha, all the arudha are > created by her due to the lordships of the planets. So fasting on the tithi > lorded by the 12th lord will be a *more correct* answer. > > > > > Seriously, however, this kind of stretching of gandanta concepts is quite > illogical. > > > > [sanjay Rath:] It is not stretching ... it is the > very definition of gandanta – the interface between fire and water. Put a > burning match in a glass of water, the fire dies...There are other Ganda’s in > the chart but they are not anta (ends). Take Chitra ganda between Kanya and > Tula. > > > > Now one more thing: Marriage is a yoga between two souls > and why not suggest fasting on the yoga day of the UL lord? > > > > > [sanjay Rath:] What! What a brilliant suggestion.. .why don’t you start > it? > > > > * * * > > > > > Now suppose instead of > 11th house if Mercury goes to 12th house or 4 > > > house then you > cannot choose Dwadashi or Chaturthi for the same > > > because these > thithis are ruled by Mercury only and fasting on these > > > tithis will > create serious doshas. > > > > Picking tithi based on house (12th house > - Dwadashi, 4th house - Chaturthi) is illogical as there are 12 houses only and > more tithis. > > I have realized one thing over the years - If something is > not structurally sound, it is most likely false knowledge. > > > > > [sanjay Rath:] J No comments > > > > * * * > > > > I can > categorically declare one thing with utmost confidence. You pick any weekday or > tithi and take a vow to fast or do mouna vrata (remain silent) on that weekday > or tithi and meditate with a particular mantra (any) at the end of the day. You > can take a vow to keep that practice for a certain duration of time (say, a few > months or years) for a specific purpose. Take a vow and keep the vrata for the > duration. If brahmacharya can be kept for the duration of the vrata, there is > nothing like it! > > > > [sanjay Rath:] This is a fine statement > but then you seem to be saying that the Puranas and other teachings of the seers > is of not much relevance. Of course you are right as it will be spiritually > beneficial. For example, a person wishing to marry should not fast on UL days > and should choose any day (all days are the same) or any tithi (all tithi are > the same) and start fasting and do a mantra (any mantra!!) and then in a few > days, or (maybe) a few months (or maybe) a few years ... or maybe (what you did > not say), a few lifetimes, the marriage will happen! I cannot say you are wrong, > so I agree that what you say is right. > > > > If you keep such a vrata > sincerely, you will make positive progress towards achieving your purpose and > definitely not go backwards, irrespective of what is said by technical > calculations based on our half-baked Jyotish knowledge. > > > > * * > * > > > > My friends, use the Jyotish knowledge available, but do > realize that it is imperfect and corrupted. Why is only the UL lord important? > So many planets may have so many kinds of influence on UL in a chart. And UL is > one of several factors showing marriage. There may be various influences in a > chart showing marriage. Is our thumb rule of using UL lord's weekday missing > some important factors? Quite possible! > > > > [sanjay Rath:] That is > a very nasty statement. Once again you have used adjectives (*imperfect, > corrupted*) which is not becoming of you. Why must you use nasty statements? > Can’t you say things nicely? > > > > Three years back you said you > are leaving jyotish....then again you told me two years back and again recently > that you are leaving jyotish. Now it is getting very evident that *jyotish is > leaving you*. The knowledge of Jyotish is PERFECT – individuals embody it in > different levels of their understanding and intelligence. > > > > If > you have the time to listen to the Jaimini Lectures at http://sohamsa. com/js/ do so as it will show > you the depths of this knowledge you cannot imagine exists in jyotish. The > derivation of the chnhandas and what not all. Thumb rules are meant for > beginners. The day you decided to give up jyotish, you got stuck in the thumb > rules but then its ok with me. I always wished you the best in whatever you > do. > > > > But, despite some arbitrariness and imperfection, if a > thumb rule allows you to pick an austerity with confidence and create the mental > feeling that you are doing the best possible thing for your situation, it is > good. After all, what is critical is to do *some* austerity to burn the blocking > karma, with a positive frame of mind about what you are doing. > > > > > [sanjay Rath:] No Narasimha, very happy marriages can happen, without > austerities as well. > > > > But, if endless theorization and > complicated technicalities evolving from the thumb rule are creating doubts and > confusion in the minds of people as they consider an austerity, that is useless > and totally missing the point. > > > > Some people tend to resort to > heavy theorization based on very shaky grounds. I suggest going back to the > basics, thinking clearly and keeping things simple. > > > > [sanjay > Rath:] Human brains work differently in seeking the truth and means to remedy > the errors. Life is too complicated to keep everything simple. For example, a > heavily cursed Venus can block everything and UL fast may not be able to solve > the problem. Now would you say that heavy thoerization and complication is > happening and we should ignore the other factors completely? > > > > > Gem stones may harm when used incorrectly. But, austerities like prayers, > fasting, mouna vrata and brahmacharya will NEVER do you any harm. If your body > can take fasting, you can do it on any weekday or tithi without too many > calculations. > > > > [sanjay Rath:] Brahmacharya is good for someone > planning to have a baby or one who cannot conceive and this is kept for some > period before the appointed date of nisheka. Brahmacharya is good for marriage?! > I think you are mistaking abstinence from physical union as Brahmacharya. Oh no > its so different. > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > Do a Short > Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam > > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > --- > In sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% 40. com> > , Ajay Zharotia <ajayzharotia@ > wrote: > > > ||Om Gurave > Namah|| > > > > > > Dear Swee, & jyotishis > > > > > > What Zoran is saying is right. Do not mix the energy of day lord > > > (Agni) by choosing the same tithi (jala) that will create serious > > > troubles for the spouse. > > > Let me explain the principle > in a simple way so that there should not > > > be any confusion. > > > > > > > In your chart (Swee) Vrishabha lagna, UL is in 2nd house. So > lord of > > > the UL is the Mercury. Since fasting is prohibited for UL > in 2nd > > > house see where the lord of the UL has gone. In your case > mercury has > > > gone to the 11th house hence it is Ekadashi. So rule > is to choose the > > > tithi is based on the placement of the UL > lord. > > > > > > Now suppose instead of 11th house if Mercury > goes to 12th house or 4 > > > house then you cannot choose Dwadashi or > Chaturthi for the same > > > because these thithis are ruled by Mercury > only and fasting on these > > > tithis will create serious > doshas. > > > > > > If you are doing fasting on the basis of > tithis it should be done in > > > sukla paksha only. But if you are > doing in Krishna paksha (Pitris) > > > also then it should be combined > with the donation. > > > > > > I hope this will clarify the > principal. > > > > > > Best Regards > > > > > > > Ajay Zharotia > > > ajayzharotia@ > > > > > > On Feb 4, > 2009, at 12:51 PM, Sanjay Prabhakaran wrote: > > > > > > > || > Om Gurave Namah || > > > > Dear Swee, > > > > Can you please > tell me the exact rule to use for fasting on > > > > tithi?.Do we use > the 12th lord tithi?, Like if you are Ta lagna, > > > > there 2 tithi > one on Triteeya (3) and Ekadasha(11) . If we consider > > > > only the > paksh in which u are born. > > > > Now of the two which to > use?. > > > > > > > > Warm Regards > > > > Sanjay > p > > > > > > > > 2009/2/3 Swee Chan <swee@> > > > > > Jaya Jagannatha > > > > > > > > Dear Hari, Zoki, > et al in this discussion, > > > > Namaste > > > > > > > > > The tongue in cheek, I'll excuse ;-)) it's my laugh for the > day!! > > > > I fast on ekadasi tithi because my UL is in 2nd house > (ie 12th lord > > > > is in lagna). Since I was born on sukla paksha, > Sanjay ji suggests > > > > that I fast only on sukla ekadasi. > > > > > Zoki, if you listen to JUS of Year I, you will note how Sanjay ji > > > > came to this conclusion. > > > > > > > > > love, > > > > > > > > Swee > > > > > > > > > On 3 Feb 2009, at 15:25, Jyotisa Shisya wrote: > > > > > > > > >> |om| > > > >> Dear Zoran, namaste > > > > >> > > > >> Would not the general act of fasting be construed > as an insult to > > > >> Sri MahaVishnu? > > > > >> > > > >> best regards > > > >> Hari > > > > >> > > > >> On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 5:30 PM, ahimsavm > <ahimsans@> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> Om Namah > Shivaya, > > > >> Dear Bojan and others, > > > >> Here > is my point and view about the question raised. 2nd bhava is > > > > >> the bhava of Vishnu, sustainer, and if we fast on the day of UL > in > > > >> 2nd house, we bring insult to Vishnu who provides the > food for us. > > > >> However, to be honest, I have not heard this > about 2nd lord and > > > >> tithi. The basic point is that Upapada > is a rashi and carries energy > > > >> of Vara or day. If you fast > on the day ruled by tithi of the 2nd > > > >> lord, you are > bringing the jala energy to vara, and gandanta may > > > >> occur, > and spouse may come into a danger. So, what is the way out. > > > > >> The simple solution is to do vrata which do not conflict with > > > > >> rejection of food. So a person may observe the fast on UL in > 2nd > > > >> day, however, adequate food should be offered as a > prasad and eaten > > > >> before the Sunrise (not complete fast).In > this way, results may come > > > >> a bit later, but will certainly > come, while a person will not bring > > > >> insult to Shri Vishnu > by rejecting the food. > > > >> This is the way I was taught, and > ofcourse others may agree or not. > > > >> Best wishes > > > > >> Zoran Radosavljevic > > > >> www.siva-edu. info > > > >> www.ahimsazr1. wordpress. com Get the world's best email - Xtra Mail Food for the party season - Easy recipes for Christmas entertaining on Xtra Lifestyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 om paramesthi gurave namah Dear Shri Bohra Thank you for your views but those of Parasara and the sages is somehat different. They cause the flaws to disappear. OK let us forget graha and think of karma. If a man committed a rape and was convicted for jail, then he has to spend the term of say 10 years injail. But during this time he realises his flaws, focuses on studies and even passes the IAS examination (this has happened recently in India), then the Government feels that due to his exemplary conduct and focus on studies in the jail his term is reduced and he is released after 5 years instead of 10 years. So what happened to the *original* punishment that the judge had read out for the crime? How did it change? In a similar manner, the remedial measures prescribed by the sages of yore always give very good results and will reduce the period and intensity of the punishment indicated in the chart. With Warm Regards Sanjay Rath http://srath.com http://sohamsa.com http://.org 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of msbohra62 09 February 2009 19:34 sohamsa Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING Dear All, In my view tithi wise fasting is separate issue it has no any relation with astrological placement or with astrology.Yes day wise as Like Monday,Tuesday.... they have the relations,more psychological than astrological.Native feel confident to do certain fast,his own body system feel relax and use his deposit energy.If we do any good job we feel energy in our mind and body as like native feel some goodness and it help him to do his job with cheerful manner.Result will also good. Remedy are for boosting the confidence of native not changing the planetary position.In this aspect remedy are good but if claim it will change the effects of planets than we are wrong. God also have given some free will and good Karma effects our future result so doing good job will never harmful for any body.Fasting is the system to make our body system strong and cleansing only. It is my view other may have their view of point. Thanks, M.S.Bohra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 Very inspiring mail. -Regards Rajarshi The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra--- On Sat, 14/2/09, Sanjay Rath <sjrath wrote: Sanjay Rath <sjrathRE: Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTINGsohamsa Date: Saturday, 14 February, 2009, 10:28 PM om paramesthi gurave namah Dear Shri Bohra Thank you for your views but those of Parasara and the sages is somehat different. They cause the flaws to disappear. OK let us forget graha and think of karma. If a man committed a rape and was convicted for jail, then he has to spend the term of say 10 years injail. But during this time he realises his flaws, focuses on studies and even passes the IAS examination (this has happened recently in India), then the Government feels that due to his exemplary conduct and focus on studies in the jail his term is reduced and he is released after 5 years instead of 10 years. So what happened to the *original* punishment that the judge had read out for the crime? How did it change? In a similar manner, the remedial measures prescribed by the sages of yore always give very good results and will reduce the period and intensity of the punishment indicated in the chart. With Warm Regards Sanjay Rath http://srath. com http://sohamsa. com http:// .org 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of msbohra6209 February 2009 19:34sohamsa@ .com Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING Dear All,In my view tithi wise fasting is separate issue it has no anyrelation with astrological placement or with astrology.Yes day wise asLike Monday,Tuesday. ... they have the relations,more psychologicalthan astrological. Native feel confident to do certain fast,his ownbody system feel relax and use his deposit energy.If we do any goodjob we feel energy in our mind and body as like native feel somegoodness and it help him to do his job with cheerful manner.Resultwill also good.Remedy are for boosting the confidence of native not changing theplanetary position.In this aspect remedy are good but if claim it willchange the effects of planets than we are wrong.God also have given some free will and good Karma effects our futureresult so doing good job will never harmful for any body.Fasting isthe system to make our body system strong and cleansing only.It is my view other may have their view of point.Thanks,M.S.Bohra Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 Dear Sanjay, Your suggestion is related to the Lord of 12th, right? Not UL lord? Does the former decide what should be donated, or just individual inclination for the type of donation- please clarify. I personally donate money regularly, and paintings occasionally. Me is lord of my 12th. /Conj. Venus?Overstretching?/ Please comment. Love, Anna --- On Fri, 2/6/09, Sanjay Rath <sjrath wrote: Sanjay Rath <sjrathRE: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTINGsohamsa Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 8:25 PM om paramesthi gurave namah Dear Sanjay See you think that *food must be donated* because your 12th lord is Moon...someone else may think that money is to be donated if Mercury is 12L ...and so on With Warm Regards Sanjay Rath http://srath. com http://sohamsa. com http:// .org 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of Sanjay Prabhakaran02 February 2009 11:05sohamsa@ .comRe: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING || Om gurave namah ||Dear Deepak, Ideally Fasting is the best remedy. 2nd house is eating and 12th houes gives argala by fasting to lagna. Arudha of the 12th indicates the day we can fast. As an alternate you can try donating things related to A12 (UL/upapada) on the day ruled by UL. For example if UL is venus rules house try donating clothes on friday. in jupiter's house donate Sweet's etc. Ideally I think donation should be related to food items. Warm RegardsSanjay P 2009/1/5 DEEPAK <dny789 > Dear all,I ahve a query to all learned people out here. My sister has marriage related issues for which UPAPADA FAST is advised normally. But she has a problem that she can't fast. Is there any ALTERNATIVE to upapada fasting?If anybdy has idea on this please put light.DEEPAK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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