On Remedial Measures Difference (Resolving Points)

[Guest guest]

Dear Narasimhaji (and it might help others to read this fully too,

trust me you may well be satisfied),

 

First, let me say I am not about to either agree/disagree with you. I

am only standing back and observing/categorizing your approach, and

comparing it historical events that will give me a sense of the final

import of your approach.

 

If you read about Abraham, the supposed " father " of the three

religions (Christianity, Judaism and Islam) that have together had the

most following among all religions in the world (ever). As far as I

know, he lived in a time of deities and ritual. He is supposedly the

first to have actively sought to bring the notion of one God to the

masses. He destroyed idols much to the dissatisfaction of lots around

him. Apparently God revealed himself to Abraham several times.

Abraham submitted himself completely to the will of God, always,

without question. It seems logical to conclude that he destroyed and

denounced idolatry because he felt, at the very least, that focus on

the multiplicity of deity and webs of rituals took *away* a person's

focus from the real thing - submission to the one and only God (which

is what Abraham was really about i.e. submission to the one and only

God). Before jumping to any conclusions about what I am trying to say,

please read on.

 

Me, I'm fascinated by religious psychology, i.e. what drives people to

believe in God and how. I *dont seek to denounce* either Abraham or

the idolaters (Hindus would obviously come to mind here), only to

understand them. The way I have found to unify these two seemingly

contradictory approaches is the following, and perhaps it will help

you as well: God is *eventually only one* of course and " resides " deep

within us, and projects himself (I use " project " in exactly the sense

Michal describes) in various ways into human experience. As people get

spiritually elevated, the projections become less necessary and they

are able to have a more and more direct experience of God.

Consequently, they start forgetting the role the projections

*originally had in the beginning of their path* and consider the most

important thing to be the complete submission to the *growing* inner

light of God within themselves.

 

 

My feeling is that that is what happened to Abraham, and is what is

happening to you as well. Psychologically and astrologically speaking,

the examples you choose to illustrate your point betray your

psychology. You have unconsciously chosen an example of a mountain,

with the *final God experience* sitting on top. That final God

experience is the Sun, astrologically speaking i.e. the source, the

symbol of the growing inner light within *you*. The various paths to

the top that you talk about represent, I think, Mercury, with its

various forms and distinctions (Prithvi tattwa?). As you behold the

Sun, the king, in all his magnificence, everything else pales in

comparison. And sure enough, you start posting that all the paths are

unimportant :-)

 

But see, not everyone is there yet, all the distinctions and dates and

rituals are important, because they will unerringly lead one there, as

they did for you. At least that's what I have gathered after listening

to Sanjayji and all the gurus on this group..

 

Regards,

 

Sundeep

[Guest guest]

Dear Sanjay,

 

 

> No No Narasimha, mantra is beautiful. It is not *ardous* like

> climbing mountain. It is beautiful like a dance – yes a dance

> on top of Kailash with Lord Shiva.

 

Well, if mantra is really like a dance on top of Kailasha for you, you are fortunate. However, most people do have to engage in an arduous climbing to enjoy such a dance. If I (or anybody else) were to tell people that mantras work magically without a lot of discipline and effort and internal maturing, I would be misleading them. If I were to tell people that their problems will be magically solved because they came to me and got the perfect mantra to the perfect deity, I would be misleading them.

 

> So this sermn is very wrong really. I have mantra lord Moon in

> 12th house, so it s a dance for me, you have 5th lord (mantra) in

> 8th house (hard) in debility in Aries (mountain), so it like

> climbing a mountain for you.

> You see here also the karma plays out.

 

Karma does indeed play out, but the question is whether we are reading it correctly or not!

 

Yes, my 5th lord is indeed in 8th but with several planets and aspected by Jupiter and giving many yogas. Are we sure we are judging it correctly? Yes, your 5th lord is in 12th, but he is in marana karaka sthana from 5th and aspected closely by Rahu. Are we sure we are judging it correctly?

 

Bottomline is that judging the play of karmas is not a simple thing and one can always make mistakes. In any case, I suggest that we should not get personal under the pretext of demonstrating how karmas play out.

 

> Secondly, whether someone is training to be a beggar at Gods door

> is the work of his/her spiritual master and NOT that of the Jyotishi.

> An astrologer is *required to be humble* and not arrogate to himself

> this task of asking people to be humble before God or such things.

 

OK, so what then is the task of this "humble" astrologer? If telling people to surrender to god and pray is arrogance, what do you call telling people that one has knowledge which will let them get what they want from god? Also, is it really humble to make statements that austerities can bring dangers and insult to Vishnu? When an astrologer recommends mantras and makes statements like these, one is already encroaching on the space of a spiritual master somewhat.

 

> ....since the letter is addressed to me it implies that you mean *I am selfish*

 

Though the mail is addressed to you, a lot of portions inside are addressed to all. The above point is not about any specific person. I apologize for any confusion.

 

> > > OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for Gandanta being in 0 deg,

> > > 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a junction between agni

> > > and jala...I want to her your words if you have any.

> >

> > Parasara's definition of gandanta is restricted to two neighboring areas in a

> > contiguous space having a predominance of fire and water elements. "I see

> > fire and I see water. So there is gandanta" is a wrong approach. One can

> > then call Venus, a watery planet, being in a fiery sign or Mars, a fiery planet,

> > being in a watery sign as gandanta. Gandanta requires a *transition* in a

> > contiguous space. In your example of upapada lord's tithi, there is no

> > contiguous space where there is a water-fire transition.

> >

> There is something called Tithi Gandanta! Gandanta exists between

> Purna and nanda tithi.

 

Yes, but we do have a contiguous space here. The contiguous 0-360 deg space of Sun-Moon angle has portions with predominance of different elements. When there are transitions between portioins having a predominance of fire and water, Parasara gave a tithi gandanta there.

 

When you are talking about the tithi of UL lord, what is the contiguous space, what are its portions and what are the transitions? It is an illogical extension of gandanta.

 

* * *

 

In conclusion, I will sum up my main points. [This is copied from the other mail from today and slightly edited.]

 

 

(1) The knowledge needed for judging specific karmas responsible for specific results and suggesting specific remedies is partly lost and partly corrupted today. What we have is a non-coherent collage of some good knowledge and a lot of corruptions.

 

The way gandanta is being stretched and people are talking of insult to Vishnu by fasting etc, it should be clear that knowledge is being corrupted based on fancy imagination. People are presenting their ideas without making it clear that those are their ideas.

 

(2) Many people today are unable to use many specific remedies given in shastras today. Just because one worships a specific form with a specific mantra, things do not necessarily happen. There is a lot more needed and most of it is not external (e.g. choice of weekday or tithi or color of clothes, direction faced etc) but internal (e.g. discipline, patience, surrender, humility, low ego etc). In the old days, these internal issues were pretty much under control and mantras worked well. Now, people lack on those big time and mantras do not work the way they are supposed to.

 

Given the above two points, best path for one today is to surrender to a deity, try to instill discipline, humility and patience and pray for mercy, rather than running after astrologers for customized remedies.

 

(3) *Austerities* like fasting do *not* harm one.

 

Best regards,NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality: Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

sohamsa , "Sanjay Rath" <sjrath wrote:

 

 

 

om paramesthi gurave namah

Dear Narasimha

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

> Mantra Shastra is a very detailed work and includes mantra dosha etc.

 

> It is very scientific and accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this.

 

 

 

Some may be fascinated by the texture, color and volume of the chaff and miss the grain.

 

 

 

Most people who talk about mantra shastra focus on the chaff and not on the grain.

[sanjay Rath:] This sounds like saying that Einsten is bogus as Newtons theory can explain everything! Viewpoint is very important. Perhaps what you call the grain is the tree itself! That is the depth of knowledge which decides whether you have the ability to reach the grain or are still searching for the tree.

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

But the bottomline is this: Only a highly purified sadhaka of very low ego can command specific results from god (not for selfishness or even ego satisfaction, but acting as an unattached instrument of Nature fulfilling one's dharma set by Nature). Various mantras and technicalities of mantra shastra taught by rishis are meant for such sadhakas.

[sanjay Rath:] When will you start learning this?

 

 

 

Those are hardly of use to so many people out there with dense egos seeking specific selfish results. They cannot command specific results from god (because of their heavy attachment to the result, which is in turn due to their own attachment to a limited ego), even if they use all the techniques of mantra shastra and all the associated rules of astrology. Instead of wasting their time with these technicalities, they will be better off learning to be good beggars at God's door.

[sanjay Rath:] This is wrong. There was a time when there were only a few very qualified doctors and they alone could cure. When the knowledge is shared, more doctors arrive in the planet and they too can heal.

Secondly, whether someone is training to be a beggar at Gods door is the work of his/her spiritual master and NOT that of the Jyotishi. An astrologer is *required to be humble* and not arrogate to himself this task of asking people to be humble before God or such things. The path that every creature takes is that of the spiritual master they seek and follow. And it is the humility to the Guru alone that brings the ego under control and makes it humble. One who cannot be humble before the Guru is a gross failure when he tries to be humble before God and submit. So what you are saying is actually *not fully correct*

The first step is to be a beggar before the teacher/guru and then alone can you be ready to be a beggar at the doors of God.

 

 

 

Just pick any prasiddha mantra or a mantra you feel attracted to, without worrying about so many technicalities, and learn to be humble and surrender to the Lord. Patiently wait for him to give you what you want. Like a beggar, take whatever and whenever he gives.

[sanjay Rath:] I have done this for about 30 years now, and I believe many people in this list have done this for maybe even longer periods. What is the new thing you are saying?

 

 

 

Keep praying every day or every second when you are able to. Even when you are not praying, remember him in all of your actions. When you enjoy something in the material world, tell yourself that it is his and that he gave it to you. If you remember him all the time, slowly the dirt in your mind will start to get cleaned. This fixing of attitude is faaaaaaaaaaaar more important than picking the right mantra, right weekday, right tithi etc (that too based on unreliable knowledge coming from questionable sources!).

[sanjay Rath:] Stop giving a sermon Narasimha?? I know all this, so what is it that you are talking about? Come to the point.

It is pathetic that what you say as *unreliable source* is what you practised for a decade and never questioned it until suddenly when you are *not a part of the Jaimini scholar program* !!

Vaara/Weekday prayers -

Forget the first batch of Jaimini scholars, just ask anyone in the second batch in year-2/3 and they can easily explain –

 

Why is Lord Shiva worshipped on Mondays? Why is Lord Vishnu worshipped on Thursdays?

Now don’t try to tell me you did not know that Lord Shiva is worshipped by millions of Indians on Mondays!

Tithi Prayers

Fasting on tithi’s concerned to the birth anniversary of the devata on the days of the tithi are too well known. And you are a software maker, have written papers on this also. So why this sudden volta-face?

Ekadashi fasting is done by a few millions of people for Krishna for Yuga santarana i.e. tiding over the Yuga effects.

Why is ekadashi fasting advocated for this? What link does Ekadashi have to Kali yuga? You do not know the answer does not mean that it is wrong. And if you know the answer, then why do you say that the tithi fasting is wrong??!

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

There may be a mountain with thousands of paths (mantra) for climbing it. Each path may lead to a different spot (different experience) on the top and show a different scenery (result). Expert advisors (astrologers) may tell you to use a specific path (mantra) to see a specific scenery (result). But such advice is useless to a handicapped person without legs (a selfish person with dense ego). It is relevant only to person with legs and one who is strong and sturdy, who can successfully climb the mountain (a reasonably detached person with very little ego).

[sanjay Rath:] Another Sermon about being selfish

.....since the letter is addressed to me it implies that you mean *I am selfish*. ...and now people will be wondering about what am I selfish? Is it because I did not share the Jaimni scholar lectures? I invited you and een was prepard to shift dates, but you were too busy filming about Krishna’s birth or something.

 

 

 

Even when you encounter a person who has legs and can actually climb the mountain, the stress should be on how to climb the mountain and traverse the long path, rather than which path to take. The astrologers who are bogged down by all the technicalities and people who take customized mantra advice from astrologers and think that they will get a result quickly by doing that 'powerful' mantra are missing the basic point. The power of a powerful mantra is with respect to the experience and result obtained *after* one succeeds with the mantra. A partcicularly powerful mantra is akin to a path leading to a point atop the mountain where the view shows a particularly beautiful scenery. But the bottomline is that you do have to survive the climb along the long path.

[sanjay Rath:] No No Narasimha, mantra is beautiful. It is not *ardous* like climbing mountain. It is beautiful like a dance – yes a dance on top of Kailash with Lord Shiva.

So this sermn is very wrong really. I have mantra lord Moon in 12th house, so it s a dance for me, you have 5th lord (mantra) in 8th house (hard) in debility in Aries (mountain), so it like climbing a mountain for you.

You see here also the karma plays out.

 

 

 

We need to emphasize the attitude and approach needed for the long climb, rather than emphasizing the choice of the path based on horoscope. It is worth noting that so many great spiritual teachers who came in the last century or two did not emphasize picking the right mantra based on horoscope etc. Instead, they emphasized having the correct attitude - surrender, submission, devotion, patience, persistence, discipline, humility etc!!!! *That* is a lot more important and useful than trying to be oversmart with the choice of mantra, day etc and impress god.

[sanjay Rath:] Really and how do you wish to *STANDADIZE* this? You have a given formula for the approach and attitude or is it borrowed from another, and if so then why are you assuming that the people in this list do not know about *surrender, submission, devotion, patience, persistence, discipline, humility etc!!!! *

No one is trying to be over smart. They are being smart.

They are only using certain rules to approach based on available knowledge. And that knowledge seems to be bothering you like your problem with Upapada fasting.

 

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

> when should the worship of a graha be done? Let us say someone

 

> wishes to worship Mars (Mangala graha). When do you think this

 

> worship should be done?

 

You can do anyday. Parasara does not mention any day for doing homam to a graha.

 

In fact, if one wants, one can do a homam or worship to Mars (or any planet) every day. It is even better that way.

 

If an astrologer suggests doing it on a Tuesday, it is fine. But saying that doing it on so and so day will bring serious dangers because Mars is an enemy of so and so planet would be stretching things.

[sanjay Rath:] Read the PURANAS. What you write clearly shows lack of understanding  of the Puranas. Why would the Rishi advise a particular day? Are they wrong? Why is the Gayatri initiation done on Wednesdays and Thursdays? Why is it not done on Saturday?

You earlier said that this can be done on any day, then why did they advise a particular day for this?

 

 

 

 

> [sanjay Rath:] Where do you think Veda Vyasa (Krishna dvaipaayana) got his

 

> knowledge and those who wrote it as scribes for him, where did they get it from?

 

From Self - from within. That is the source of all knowledge. A sadguru need not specifically teach thousand things, but needs to open the door inside.

[sanjay Rath:] THAT IS AHAMKARA speaking.

The correct answer in complete humility is “The knowledge comes from one source – Bhagavan.†Surrender to Him and he is the one who will have the door opened, and then the self will gradually fade away like a mist coming over a house.

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

> OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for Gandanta being in 0 deg,

 

> 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a junction between agni

 

> and jala...I want to her your words if you have any.

 

 

 

Parasara's definition of gandanta is restricted to two neighboring areas in a contiguous space having a predominance of fire and water elements. "I see fire and I see water. So there is gandanta" is a wrong approach. One can then call Venus, a watery planet, being in a fiery sign or Mars, a fiery planet, being in a watery sign as gandanta. Gandanta requires a *transition* in a contiguous space.

 

In your example of upapada lord's tithi, there is no contiguous space where there is a water-fire transition.

[sanjay Rath:] There is something called Tithi Gandanta! Gandanta exists between Purna and nanda tithi.

What is wrong with tithi fasting related to the devata of the planet associated with the Upapada? While Vara vrata will bring about marriage, tithi vrata associated with the devata should sustain it? Similarly, malefic in the 12th house can also be pacified either by their devata or if there are planets in the 8th house, then these planets shall support.

 

 

 

> Now somewhere you talked of wasting time!!! Look what you are doing.

 

> You were asked to work on Parashara by your Spiritual Master, and

 

> are you doing that? Me10, Ve7, Ve6...good research but is that from

 

> Parashara?

 

Well, Me10, Ve7 etc theory is based on marrying two different teachings of Parasara (bhava karakas and special lagnas). I do not really consider it as my creation but as understanding Parasara's teachings only.

 

 

[sanjay Rath:] Special Lagna are derived on the principle of circular motion and the Sun as the Lagna in the first place is derived from the Sun.

What you have done is to treat every planet like the Sun which is wrong.

The normal procedure for looking at the karaka bhava is Me10 = 10th house from Mercury; Ve7 is 7th house from Venus and so on...in the rasi and varga charts.

Narasimha, this is your creation and NOT taught in BPHS. Please do not twist.

[Guest guest]

om sri rama jaya rama jaya jaya rama

Dear Sanjay/Narasimha, pranaams

 

Please forgive me for my comments that I am about to make. First, this discussion initially very interesting is now turning me cold.

 

Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa repeatedly scoffed at the idea that God is compassionate. His argument was that God has been and continues to be compassionate from day one of our existence. And through out my life, this is one thing that I have realized i.e., that God is very, very compassionate.

 

So now, Sanjay, tell me one thing: if a person happens to fast for whatever reason on some particular day/tithi, why is it equated to an insult on the most compassionate Vishnu?

 

Do you not find this absurd? Yet this is the crux of what was stated in a recent discussion thread.

 

Secondly, Sarbani wrote in this discussion thread that there are troubled souls out there indulging in all this talk about corruption of principles and what not. Again this is absurd as to paraphrase Mirabai, there are troubled souls everywhere on this planet Earth and everyone of them is in search of the truth, whatver it may be called.

 

best regards

Hari

 

best regards

Hari

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Sanjay,

 

 

 

> No No Narasimha, mantra is beautiful. It is not *ardous* like

> climbing mountain. It is beautiful like a dance – yes a dance

 

> on top of Kailash with Lord Shiva.

 

Well, if mantra is really like a dance on top of Kailasha for you, you are fortunate. However, most people do have to engage in an arduous climbing to enjoy such a dance. If I (or anybody else) were to tell people that mantras work magically without a lot of discipline and effort and internal maturing, I would be misleading them. If I were to tell people that their problems will be magically solved because they came to me and got the perfect mantra to the perfect deity, I would be misleading them.

 

 

> So this sermn is very wrong really. I have mantra lord Moon in

> 12th house, so it s a dance for me, you have 5th lord (mantra) in

> 8th house (hard) in debility in Aries (mountain), so it like

> climbing a mountain for you.

> You see here also the karma plays out.

 

Karma does indeed play out, but the question is whether we are reading it correctly or not!

 

Yes, my 5th lord is indeed in 8th but with several planets and aspected by Jupiter and giving many yogas. Are we sure we are judging it correctly? Yes, your 5th lord is in 12th, but he is in marana karaka sthana from 5th and aspected closely by Rahu. Are we sure we are judging it correctly?

 

Bottomline is that judging the play of karmas is not a simple thing and one can always make mistakes. In any case, I suggest that we should not get personal under the pretext of demonstrating how karmas play out.

 

 

 

> Secondly, whether someone is training to be a beggar at Gods door

> is the work of his/her spiritual master and NOT that of the Jyotishi.

> An astrologer is *required to be humble* and not arrogate to himself

> this task of asking people to be humble before God or such things.

 

OK, so what then is the task of this " humble " astrologer? If telling people to surrender to god and pray is arrogance, what do you call telling people that one has knowledge which will let them get what they want from god? Also, is it really humble to make statements that austerities can bring dangers and insult to Vishnu? When an astrologer recommends mantras and makes statements like these, one is already encroaching on the space of a spiritual master somewhat.

 

 

> ....since the letter is addressed to me it implies that you mean *I am selfish*

 

Though the mail is addressed to you, a lot of portions inside are addressed to all. The above point is not about any specific person. I apologize for any confusion.

 

 

> > > OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for Gandanta being in 0 deg,

> > > 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a junction between agni

> > > and jala...I want to her your words if you have any.

> >

> > Parasara's definition of gandanta is restricted to two neighboring areas in a

> > contiguous space having a predominance of fire and water elements. " I see

> > fire and I see water. So there is gandanta " is a wrong approach. One can

> > then call Venus, a watery planet, being in a fiery sign or Mars, a fiery planet,

> > being in a watery sign as gandanta. Gandanta requires a *transition* in a

> > contiguous space. In your example of upapada lord's tithi, there is no

> > contiguous space where there is a water-fire transition.

> >

 

> There is something called Tithi Gandanta! Gandanta exists between

> Purna and nanda tithi.

 

Yes, but we do have a contiguous space here. The contiguous 0-360 deg space of Sun-Moon angle has portions with predominance of different elements. When there are transitions between portioins having a predominance of fire and water, Parasara gave a tithi gandanta there.

 

When you are talking about the tithi of UL lord, what is the contiguous space, what are its portions and what are the transitions? It is an illogical extension of gandanta.

 

*        *        *

 

In conclusion, I will sum up my main points. [This is copied from the other mail from today and slightly edited.]

 

 

 

(1) The knowledge needed for judging specific karmas responsible for specific results and suggesting specific remedies is partly lost and partly corrupted today. What we have is a non-coherent collage of some good knowledge and a lot of corruptions.

 

The way gandanta is being stretched and people are talking of insult to Vishnu by fasting etc, it should be clear that knowledge is being corrupted based on fancy imagination. People are presenting their ideas without making it clear that those are their ideas.

 

(2) Many people today are unable to use many specific remedies given in shastras today. Just because one worships a specific form with a specific mantra, things do not necessarily happen. There is a lot more needed and most of it is not external (e.g. choice of weekday or tithi or color of clothes, direction faced etc) but internal (e.g. discipline, patience, surrender, humility, low ego etc). In the old days, these internal issues were pretty much under control and mantras worked well. Now, people lack on those big time and mantras do not work the way they are supposed to.

 

 

Given the above two points, best path for one today is to surrender to a deity, try to instill discipline, humility and patience and pray for mercy, rather than running after astrologers for customized remedies.

 

(3) *Austerities* like fasting do *not* harm one.

 

 

Best regards, NarasimhaDo a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpanaSpirituality:

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org  

 

sohamsa , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath wrote:

 

 

 

 

om paramesthi gurave namah

Dear Narasimha

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

> Mantra Shastra is a very detailed work and includes mantra dosha etc.

 

 

> It is very scientific and accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this.

 

 

 

Some may be fascinated by the texture, color and volume of the chaff and miss the grain.

 

 

 

 

Most people who talk about mantra shastra focus on the chaff and not on the grain.

[sanjay Rath:] This sounds like saying that Einsten is bogus as Newtons theory can explain everything! Viewpoint is very important. Perhaps what you call the grain is the tree itself! That is the depth of knowledge which decides whether you have the ability to reach the grain or are still searching for the tree.

 

 

 

 

*        *        *

 

 

 

But the bottomline is this: Only a highly purified sadhaka of very low ego can command specific results from god (not for selfishness or even ego satisfaction, but acting as an unattached instrument of Nature fulfilling one's dharma set by Nature). Various mantras and technicalities of mantra shastra taught by rishis are meant for such sadhakas.

[sanjay Rath:] When will you start learning this?

 

 

 

Those are hardly of use to so many people out there with dense egos seeking specific selfish results. They cannot command specific results from god (because of their heavy attachment to the result, which is in turn due to their own attachment to a limited ego), even if they use all the techniques of mantra shastra and all the associated rules of astrology. Instead of wasting their time with these technicalities, they will be better off learning to be good beggars at God's door.

[sanjay Rath:] This is wrong. There was a time when there were only a few very qualified doctors and they alone could cure. When the knowledge is shared, more doctors arrive in the planet and they too can heal.

 

Secondly, whether someone is training to be a beggar at Gods door is the work of his/her spiritual master and NOT that of the Jyotishi. An astrologer is *required to be humble* and not arrogate to himself this task of asking people to be humble before God or such things. The path that every creature takes is that of the spiritual master they seek and follow. And it is the humility to the Guru alone that brings the ego under control and makes it humble. One who cannot be humble before the Guru is a gross failure when he tries to be humble before God and submit. So what you are saying is actually *not fully correct*

The first step is to be a beggar before the teacher/guru and then alone can you be ready to be a beggar at the doors of God.

 

 

 

 

Just pick any prasiddha mantra or a mantra you feel attracted to, without worrying about so many technicalities, and learn to be humble and surrender to the Lord. Patiently wait for him to give you what you want. Like a beggar, take whatever and whenever he gives.

[sanjay Rath:] I have done this for about 30 years now, and I believe many people in this list have done this for maybe even longer periods. What is the new thing you are saying?

 

 

 

 

Keep praying every day or every second when you are able to. Even when you are not praying, remember him in all of your actions. When you enjoy something in the material world, tell yourself that it is his and that he gave it to you. If you remember him all the time, slowly the dirt in your mind will start to get cleaned. This fixing of attitude is faaaaaaaaaaaar more important than picking the right mantra, right weekday, right tithi etc (that too based on unreliable knowledge coming from questionable sources!).

[sanjay Rath:] Stop giving a sermon Narasimha?? I know all this, so what is it that you are talking about? Come to the point.

 

It is pathetic that what you say as *unreliable source* is what you practised for a decade and never questioned it until suddenly when you are *not a part of the Jaimini scholar program* !!

Vaara/Weekday prayers -

Forget the first batch of Jaimini scholars, just ask anyone in the second batch in year-2/3 and they can easily explain –

 

 

Why is Lord Shiva worshipped on Mondays? Why is Lord Vishnu worshipped on Thursdays?

Now don’t try to tell me you did not know that Lord Shiva is worshipped by millions of Indians on Mondays!

Tithi Prayers

Fasting on tithi’s concerned to the birth anniversary of the devata on the days of the tithi are too well known. And you are a software maker, have written papers on this also. So why this sudden volta-face?

 

Ekadashi fasting is done by a few millions of people for Krishna for Yuga santarana i.e. tiding over the Yuga effects.

Why is ekadashi fasting advocated for this? What link does Ekadashi have to Kali yuga? You do not know the answer does not mean that it is wrong. And if you know the answer, then why do you say that the tithi fasting is wrong??!

 

 

 

 

*        *        *

 

 

 

There may be a mountain with thousands of paths (mantra) for climbing it. Each path may lead to a different spot (different experience) on the top and show a different scenery (result). Expert advisors (astrologers) may tell you to use a specific path (mantra) to see a specific scenery (result). But such advice is useless to a handicapped person without legs (a selfish person with dense ego). It is relevant only to person with legs and one who is strong and sturdy, who can successfully climb the mountain (a reasonably detached person with very little ego).

[sanjay Rath:] Another Sermon about being selfish

.....since the letter is addressed to me it implies that you mean *I am selfish*. ...and now people will be wondering about what am I selfish? Is it because I did not share the Jaimni scholar lectures? I invited you and een was prepard to shift dates, but you were too busy filming about Krishna’s birth or something.

 

 

 

 

 

Even when you encounter a person who has legs and can actually climb the mountain, the stress should be on how to climb the mountain and traverse the long path, rather than which path to take. The astrologers who are bogged down by all the technicalities and people who take customized mantra advice from astrologers and think that they will get a result quickly by doing that 'powerful' mantra are missing the basic point. The power of a powerful mantra is with respect to the experience and result obtained *after* one succeeds with the mantra. A partcicularly powerful mantra is akin to a path leading to a point atop the mountain where the view shows a particularly beautiful scenery. But the bottomline is that you do have to survive the climb along the long path.

 

[sanjay Rath:] No No Narasimha, mantra is beautiful. It is not *ardous* like climbing mountain. It is beautiful like a dance – yes a dance on top of Kailash with Lord Shiva.

 

So this sermn is very wrong really. I have mantra lord Moon in 12th house, so it s a dance for me, you have 5th lord (mantra) in 8th house (hard) in debility in Aries (mountain), so it like climbing a mountain for you.

You see here also the karma plays out.

 

 

 

We need to emphasize the attitude and approach needed for the long climb, rather than emphasizing the choice of the path based on horoscope. It is worth noting that so many great spiritual teachers who came in the last century or two did not emphasize picking the right mantra based on horoscope etc. Instead, they emphasized having the correct attitude - surrender, submission, devotion, patience, persistence, discipline, humility etc!!!! *That* is a lot more important and useful than trying to be oversmart with the choice of mantra, day etc and impress god.

[sanjay Rath:] Really and how do you wish to *STANDADIZE* this? You have a given formula for the approach and attitude or is it borrowed from another, and if so then why are you assuming that the people in this list do not know about *surrender, submission, devotion, patience, persistence, discipline, humility etc!!!! *

 

No one is trying to be over smart. They are being smart.

They are only using certain rules to approach based on available knowledge. And that knowledge seems to be bothering you like your problem with Upapada fasting.

 

 

 

 

 

*        *        *

 

 

 

> when should the worship of a graha be done? Let us say someone

 

 

> wishes to worship Mars (Mangala graha). When do you think this

 

> worship should be done? 

 

You can do anyday. Parasara does not mention any day for doing homam to a graha.

 

 In fact, if one wants, one can do a homam or worship to Mars (or any planet) every day. It is even better that way.

 

 

 If an astrologer suggests doing it on a Tuesday, it is fine. But saying that doing it on so and so day will bring serious dangers because Mars is an enemy of so and so planet would be stretching things.

 

[sanjay Rath:] Read the PURANAS. What you write clearly shows lack of understanding  of the Puranas. Why would the Rishi advise a particular day? Are they wrong? Why is the Gayatri initiation done on Wednesdays and Thursdays? Why is it not done on Saturday?

 

You earlier said that this can be done on any day, then why did they advise a particular day for this?

 

 

 

 

> [sanjay Rath:] Where do you think Veda Vyasa (Krishna dvaipaayana) got his

 

 

> knowledge and those who wrote it as scribes for him, where did they get it from? 

 

 

From Self - from within. That is the source of all knowledge. A sadguru need not specifically teach thousand things, but needs to open the door inside.

[sanjay Rath:] THAT IS AHAMKARA speaking.

The correct answer in complete humility is “The knowledge comes from one source – Bhagavan.†Surrender to Him and he is the one who will have the door opened, and then the self will gradually fade away like a mist coming over a house.

 

 

 

 

 

*        *        *

 

 

 

> OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for Gandanta being in 0 deg,

 

> 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a junction between agni

 

> and jala...I want to her your words if you have any.

 

 

 

Parasara's definition of gandanta is restricted to two neighboring areas in a contiguous space having a predominance of fire and water elements. " I see fire and I see water. So there is gandanta " is a wrong approach. One can then call Venus, a watery planet, being in a fiery sign or Mars, a fiery planet, being in a watery sign as gandanta. Gandanta requires a *transition* in a contiguous space.

 

 

 

In your example of upapada lord's tithi, there is no contiguous space where there is a water-fire transition.

[sanjay Rath:] There is something called Tithi Gandanta! Gandanta exists between Purna and nanda tithi.

 

What is wrong with tithi fasting related to the devata of the planet associated with the Upapada? While Vara vrata will bring about marriage, tithi vrata associated with the devata should sustain it? Similarly, malefic in the 12th house can also be pacified either by their devata or if there are planets in the 8th house, then these planets shall support.

 

 

 

 

> Now somewhere you talked of wasting time!!! Look what you are doing.

 

 

> You were asked to work on Parashara by your Spiritual Master, and

 

> are you doing that? Me10, Ve7, Ve6...good research but is that from

 

> Parashara?  

 

Well, Me10, Ve7 etc theory is based on marrying two different teachings of Parasara (bhava karakas and special lagnas). I do not really consider it as my creation but as understanding Parasara's teachings only.

 

 

 

[sanjay Rath:] Special Lagna are derived on the principle of circular motion and the Sun as the Lagna in the first place is derived from the Sun.

 

What you have done is to treat every planet like the Sun which is wrong.

The normal procedure for looking at the karaka bhava is Me10 = 10th house from Mercury; Ve7 is 7th house from Venus and so on...in the rasi and varga charts.

Narasimha, this is your creation and NOT taught in BPHS. Please do not twist.

[Guest guest]

Namaste

 

The reason I had send that mail in this thread is because I felt Michal's reply was in extremely bad taste to say the least. There is no value addition on the issue being discussed and on the other hand he choses to indulge in personal attacks which should not be encouraged under any circumstance.

 

I personally am not a great jyotishi, but I know a thing or two about debates/discussion since I spend a consireable amount of my time on debating with various kinds of people various issues under the sun. A good discussion follows one inviolable rule. It is called AINP. Attack the Idea NOT the Person! Everyone has the basic fundamental right to agree or disagree with anyone in DEMOCRATIC and CIVIL manner. But personal attacks are not the way. Infact, Michals mail just a proved a few point for a third party observer like me.

 

a) He has nothing positive to contribute to this thread. No value add

 

b) He is out of arguments

 

c) He is frustated because of point (b)

 

d) He choses to vent his frustation by attacking the person rather than the idea.

 

This is the typical behaviour of a losing party in an argument.

 

Compare this (Michal's mail) to the replies given by Sri Sanjay Rath. A world of difference in the approach.There is something one can learn from just reading this exchange of mails between Narasimhaji and Sanjayji if one choses to have an open mind.

 

And *I feel*, the people who moderate this forum should set clear guidelines against any sort of personal attacks on anyone. Debate an idea, rip it apart if you can, but never attack the person who is giving the idea. But sadly, I do not see any of the senior jyotishi's in here so much as even warning Michal against this kind of behaviour.

 

-Regards

Rajarshi

 

The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra--- On Mon, 2/3/09, Sarbani Rath <sarbani wrote:

Sarbani Rath <sarbaniRE: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)sohamsa Date: Monday, 2 March, 2009, 5:12 PM

 

 

 

 

 

Hare Rama Krishna

Dear Rajarshi,

Don’t get caught in the quagmire of empty conversations. A doctor needs to know about all the medicines in order to prescribe the appropriate one to his patients. It does not mean that he prescribes all of them or that he eats all of them himself. Nevertheless, he needs to study the science. Similarly astrologers need to become adept in the science of mantras and remedies, even to prescribe that one correct mantra as well as to understand the subject thoroughly. Whether the client is practising the mantra or not in good faith depends on his karmas. To make accusations of questionable sources and corruption of vedangas, without having a notion or a even a single clue about what that tradtion is prescribing and talking about regarding mantras is laughable. A lot of bellicose and uninformed noise is made on the lists by troubled souls. Naturally such statements shall evoke strong responses.

Best Regards,

Sarbani Rath

Homepage: http://sarbani. com

Sagittarius Publications: http://sagittariusp ublications. com

Sohamsa: http://sohamsa. com

Sri Jagannath Centre: http:// .org

 

 

 

sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of rajarshi nandy02 March 2009 10:27sohamsa@ .comRe: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Michal

 

 

 

 

 

Can you show us ONE jyotish, ANYONE, who has NEVER made a wrong prediction?

 

 

 

-Regards

 

Rajarshi

 

 

The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra

--- On Mon, 2/3/09, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal > wrote:

Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal >Re: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)sohamsa@ .comMonday, 2 March, 2009, 4:57 AM

 

 

 

 

 

Hare Rama Krsna ||Dear Narasimhaaaaaaaaa,This fixing of attitude is faaaaaaaaaaaar more important than picking the right mantra, right weekday, right tithi etc (that too based on unreliable knowledge coming from questionable sources!).I agree: fixing of attitude is needed. 'Questionable sources'? Lets not lose our manners now.Jyotish is the study of time. Right weekday, right tithi etc. is important for Jyotish. Why deny or try to downplay this and promote your own preaching? Do you feel that your skills and proficiency in the subject are lacking so you attack the subject instead of addressing your own shortcomings? You made a bold prediction about the US Presidential election, when it was totally wrong you blamed the birth data despite explicitly stating that you

had verified the times satisfactorily. We are all here to learn. But don't start a vendetta against the vedanga.Here is a nice quote about psychological projection:"Psychological projection is a defense mechanism in which one attributes one's own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts and/or emotions to others. It occurs when a person's own unacceptable or threatening feelings are repressed and then attributed to someone else."An example of such simple behavior would be: blame for failure, making an excuse for your own faults by projecting the cause of said failure onto someone else, hence blaming them and not accepting the reality of the failure."Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted subconscious impulses or desires without letting the conscious mind recognize them".The source? The mystical and occult wikipaedia!Warm regards,Michal

 

 

 

 

 

 

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net>; vedic astrology; ; sohamsa@ .comMonday, 2 March, 2009 11:12:45 AM Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)

 

 



 

Dear Sanjay,

 

 

 

> Mantra Shastra is a very detailed work and includes mantra dosha etc.

 

> It is very scientific and accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this.

 

 

 

Some may be fascinated by the texture, color and volume of the chaff and miss the grain.

 

 

 

Most people who talk about mantra shastra focus on the chaff and not on the grain.

 

 

 

> You talk of begging God vs commanding God? Now where did that come from?

 

> How is it related to what is under discussion. Perhaps I have missed many

 

> mails and am not able to get the context. Trying to command God is

 

> *BLACK MAGIC* and this is detestable to say the least. The attitude should

 

> always be that of a beggar in front of God. If anyone has said otherwise, I

 

> also disagee with him/her.

 

 

 

I mentioned the above with respect to the need of thousands of mantras and technicalities. If one does not want to command god and wants to be a beggar who will take whatever is given, there is no need for thousands of mantras and all the umpteen technicalities. These thousands of mantras and umpteen technicalities are for commanding thousands of different results from god. That is why I talked of commanding vs begging. However, this commanding works slightly differently than one may imagine. I will elaborate.

 

 

 

Also, commanding god is NOT black magic. Commanding low level beings is black magic, which can be accomplished even by a person not quite elevated spiritually and suffering from a heavy ego. However, commanding higher beings such as gods is possible only for a spiritually elevated person with no or extremely small ego. This commanding that I am referring to is not an egoistic achievement. In fact, an egoist cannot achieve it. Only a person succeeding in completely effacing individual ego can achieve this commanding! I will repeat something from the previous mail to clarify:

 

 

 

 

The universe has many lokas (planes of consciousness) , many beings and many objects. There are infinite karmic interactions possible between them. Accordingly, there are infinite possible mantras. When one is able to perfectly control the mind and *fill it* with a mantra (i.e. no thoughts but the mantra reverberating in the mind constantly), then one experiences the mantra. This perfect absorption of self-awareness in the mantra then causes internal changes by the flow of energy internally in specific ways (specific to the mantra) and that causes corresponding external changes in the universe and corresponding karmic interactions between various objects.

 

 

 

Each set of "karmic interactions between various objects" is a "result". Various mantras are for various "results". One may term merging self-awareness in a mantra fully and getting a specific result from it as "commanding a result" from god. Whether you like the term or not, it is essentially that.

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

But the bottomline is this: Only a highly purified sadhaka of very low ego can command specific results from god (not for selfishness or even ego satisfaction, but acting as an unattached instrument of Nature fulfilling one's dharma set by Nature). Various mantras and technicalities of mantra shastra taught by rishis are meant for such sadhakas.

 

 

 

Those are hardly of use to so many people out there with dense egos seeking specific selfish results. They cannot command specific results from god (because of their heavy attachment to the result, which is in turn due to their own attachment to a limited ego), even if they use all the techniques of mantra shastra and all the associated rules of astrology. Instead of wasting their time with these technicalities, they will be better off learning to be good beggars at God's door.

 

 

 

Just pick any prasiddha mantra or a mantra you feel attracted to, without worrying about so many technicalities, and learn to be humble and surrender to the Lord. Patiently wait for him to give you what you want. Like a beggar, take whatever and whenever he gives.

 

 

 

Keep praying every day or every second when you are able to. Even when you are not praying, remember him in all of your actions. When you enjoy something in the material world, tell yourself that it is his and that he gave it to you. If you remember him all the time, slowly the dirt in your mind will start to get cleaned. This fixing of attitude is faaaaaaaaaaaar more important than picking the right mantra, right weekday, right tithi etc (that too based on unreliable knowledge coming from questionable sources!).

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

There may be a mountain with thousands of paths (mantra) for climbing it. Each path may lead to a different spot (different experience) on the top and show a different scenery (result). Expert advisors (astrologers) may tell you to use a specific path (mantra) to see a specific scenery (result). But such advice is useless to a handicapped person without legs (a selfish person with dense ego). It is relevant only to person with legs and one who is strong and sturdy, who can successfully climb the mountain (a reasonably detached person with very little ego).

 

 

 

Even when you encounter a person who has legs and can actually climb the mountain, the stress should be on how to climb the mountain and traverse the long path, rather than which path to take. The astrologers who are bogged down by all the technicalities and people who take customized mantra advice from astrologers and think that they will get a result quickly by doing that 'powerful' mantra are missing the basic point. The power of a powerful mantra is with respect to the experience and result obtained *after* one succeeds with the mantra. A partcicularly powerful mantra is akin to a path leading to a point atop the mountain where the view shows a particularly beautiful scenery. But the bottomline is that you do have to survive the climb along the long path.

 

 

 

We need to emphasize the attitude and approach needed for the long climb, rather than emphasizing the choice of the path based on horoscope. It is worth noting that so many great spiritual teachers who came in the last century or two did not emphasize picking the right mantra based on horoscope etc. Instead, they emphasized having the correct attitude - surrender, submission, devotion, patience, persistence, discipline, humility etc!!!! *That* is a lot more important and useful than trying to be oversmart with the choice of mantra, day etc and impress god.

 

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

> when should the worship of a graha be done? Let us say someone

 

> wishes to worship Mars (Mangala graha). When do you think this

 

> worship should be done?

 

You can do anyday. Parasara does not mention any day for doing homam to a graha.

 

 

 

In fact, if one wants, one can do a homam or worship to Mars (or any planet) every day. It is even better that way.

 

 

 

If an astrologer suggests doing it on a Tuesday, it is fine. But saying that doing it on so and so day will bring serious dangers because Mars is an enemy of so and so planet would be stretching things.

 

 

 

> [sanjay Rath:] Where do you think Veda Vyasa (Krishna dvaipaayana) got his

 

> knowledge and those who wrote it as scribes for him, where did they get it from?

 

From Self - from within. That is the source of all knowledge. A sadguru need not specifically teach thousand things, but needs to open the door inside.

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

> OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for Gandanta being in 0 deg,

 

> 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a junction between agni

 

> and jala...I want to her your words if you have any.

 

 

 

Parasara's definition of gandanta is restricted to two neighboring areas in a contiguous space having a predominance of fire and water elements. "I see fire and I see water. So there is gandanta" is a wrong approach. One can then call Venus, a watery planet, being in a fiery sign or Mars, a fiery planet, being in a watery sign as gandanta. Gandanta requires a *transition* in a contiguous space.

 

 

 

In your example of upapada lord's tithi, there is no contiguous space where there is a water-fire transition.

 

 

 

> Now somewhere you talked of wasting time!!! Look what you are doing.

 

> You were asked to work on Parashara by your Spiritual Master, and

 

> are you doing that? Me10, Ve7, Ve6...good research but is that from

 

> Parashara?

 

Well, Me10, Ve7 etc theory is based on marrying two different teachings of Parasara (bhava karakas and special lagnas). I do not really consider it as my creation but as understanding Parasara's teachings only.

 

 

 

Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

sohamsa@ .com, "Sanjay Rath" <sjrath wrote:>> om paramesthi gurave namah> > Dear Narasimha,> > I read this mail twice. OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for Gandanta being in 0 deg, 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a junction between agni and jala...I want to her your words if you have any. You keep saying Parasara says so and yet there is nothing forthcoming.> > The rashi is associated with the Aditya as the rashi come into existence because of the Sun, which is the agni tattva. Vara is also agni tattva among the panchanga of Jyotisha. That is why Vaara is related to rashi. Karma has been advised in the vaara of the lords of the rashi or the hora of the lords of the rashi related to a bhaava and for this reason, fasting and other

such karma related to rashi are also based on this. [see Prashna Marga for details].> > Moon is the significator of the Aroodha. It is the *emotional content* related to the maya manifestation of everything in life. Suffering is caused as we do not fathom the karma associated that resulted in suffering and fasting is a a means of self punishment and correction related to the raashi where the aroodha is. Just as Agni has the purity to burn the root of sin, fasting on vaara related to the UL is surely going to cleanse the sins associated with the suffering in it. While this may not give a 100% satisfaction as the *moon* content has not been addressed, at least the initiation of the aroodha occurs and people find their partners, get married and get along with life. Proof lies in the pudding and with so many cases where people have fasted on UL days and have got result, we have found faith in these teachings reinforced. Why fast? Fasting on

vaara is a means to correcting the flaw associated with the raashi. Raashi is a quantity and hence it is related to the material effects of the bhava and that is what people are looking for when they come to th astrologer. You have done well to recall my teachings in this – remember what I taught – Men should worship a female deity and women shold worship a male deity for the UL fasting. I wonder if they really follow this.> > Why not give fasting at night instead of day? Sun is always good for the Upapada (Jaimini etc) and that is why we have limited this to day fasting and not night fasting as well or 24 hour fast. This is my interpolation. [ satisfied J ] Elders would have given long periods of fast starting from the vaara, like keeping 21 days fast for the birth of child! You think I should be doing that! You think anyone will lsiten. Try it yourself before asking me to advise those hard penance kind of fasts.>

> Who says the Moon has nothing to do with the arudha. It is the sustainer. Now people to an astrologer when they are looking for getting married and hardly anyone comes these days asking for prolonging marriage. Either they want to get into one or get out of one and into another...astrologe rs these days are relegated to helping people make these transitions painless and fast. Of course some have come and I have not failed them. I have a ready shloka for this – start from Taurus in Hamsa gati:> > Gouri, Kaali, Uma, Bhadraa, Durga, Kanti, Saraswati> > Mangalaa, Vaishnavi, Lakshmi, Shivaa, Naraayani> > See I have them ready for the 12 signs in Hamsa Gati from the mool trikona of Moon in hamsa gati> > Mantra Shastra is a very detailed work and includes mantra dosha etc. It is very scientific and accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this. > > You talk of begging God vs

commanding God? Now where did that come from? How is it related to what is under discussion. Perhaps I have missed many mails and am not able to get the context. Trying to command God is *BLACK MAGIC* and this is detestable to say the least. The attitude should always be that of a beggar in front of God. If anyone has said otherwise, I also disagee with him/her.> > Prasiddha mantras always give result, even without initiation and who knows how ready a person is for initation. So I prefer sticking to prasiddha mantras with people who do not have initiations. This is there in VRA also.> > I have some questions where I have doubts about what you say. It is below your mail.> > With Warm Regards> > Sanjay Rath> > http://srath. com http://sohamsa. com http:// .org> > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India> > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of Narasimha P.V.R. Rao> 15 February 2009 09:34> sohamsa@ .com; Narasimha P.V.R. Rao> Cc: vedic astrology; > On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)> >  > Statement 1 is an arrogance that the entire Jyotisha shastra is bogus> > > and has no

relevance as the remedial measures prescribed by> > > Parasara and others to be done on specific days are irrlevant and> > > not of much consequence.> > First of all, Parasara did *not* prescribe fasting on specific weekdays or tithis based on any arudhas or houses in a chart.> > For doshas in birth chart or to get relief from planetary afflictions or to get the blessings of planets, he suggested various *homas* (fire rituals) and described how to perform them. His section on remedial measures is full of various homas. I am not dismissing those remedies taught by Parasara himself and I am in fact slowly preparing manuals on them so that anybody can do them by themselves.> > [sanjay Rath:] what about the Puranas? Have you gone through the Navagraha mantras given in the Garuda Purana and other puranic literature?> > Parasara did *not* specify the weekday or tithi for

most of these homas (e.g. planetary homas). Only for homas for specific birth doshas (e.g. Amavasya dosha or Moola dosha), he fixed the tithi or nakshatra based on the dosha and the deity. But the days are not based on any house or arudha in the chart.> > [sanjay Rath:] If Amavasya dosha is to be performed on Amavasya, when should the worship of a graha be done? Let us say someone wishes to worship Mars (Mangala graha). When do you think this worship should be done?> > Thus, the principles I am questioning are *not* from Parasara.> > [sanjay Rath:] Where do you think Veda Vyasa (Krishna dvaipaayana) got his knowledge and those who wrote it as scribes for him, where did they get it from?> > Second, I said what I said in a *context*. People are mentioning complicated principles that are not found in classics or works of rishis and scaring people that performing austerities such as fasting on certain

days cause "danger to spouse" or "serious doshas" or "insult to Vishnu", based on horoscope. I find these principles illogical and based on hasty thinking. There may be a little difference between doing an austerity on different days, but my point is that it is smaller compared to the difference between doing and not doing at all and that doing it on a "wrong day" does not cause danger as being suggested.> > [sanjay Rath:] I am sorry. I missed the context and just saw some mails that were forwarded to me amidst my writing. But them its always a pleasure to talk to you as in that many many have benefitted, and that includes us as well.> > Third, our shastras primarily talk about worshipping various deities on various days, based on the energy of the *deity*. For worshipping a certain deity, certain tithi or weekday or nakshatra is better than others. This is based on the deity and irrespective of the person worshipping. Let me

give an analogy. If a rich man comes out with more money to give to beggars on a specific day, a beggar is better off going and begging on that day. Schedule and mood of the giver is more important.> > [sanjay Rath:] That’s not right...at least people who read this will think. Let’s say Shiva worship on Mondays. Shiva is the pratyadhi devata of the Sun and is not worshipped on Sundays but on Mondays. NOTE – a day after Sunday! Similarly Narayana is the pratyadhi devata of Mercury and is worshipped on Thursdays instead of Wednesdays. NOTE – again a day after! So what happened to the energy equation? J> > Choosing the day of a remedy based on the deity is more important and the variations based on individual horoscope are less important. I am not saying there are no horoscopic variations. But they are smaller and, more importantly, I question if they are actually well-understood by astrologers today

to apply *reliably*. I question over-emphasizing and over-selling unreliable principles of questionable origin and scaring people on that basis.> > [sanjay Rath:] To this I can agree as many have not understood even the basics of Sanatana dharma! Some behave as if there is a battle going on between Shiva and Vishnu – it’s hilarious to see how these are just attempts to convert Hinduism into a religion they have left rather than trying to learn what Hinduism means. Being newly converted there is a bellicose patriotism in them to prove their faith to the *new god* they have found and every other God must be the devil in disguise!! It will take years for many to learn that there is no devil. It’s a figment of their imagination and whatever is devilish is the dark side of mankind himself.> > * * *> > >

Statement 2 is an arrogance that the entire mantra shastra is useless> > > and the Rishi’s were wasting time in giving so many mantras for> > > the same devata, like say thousands of mantras for Vishnu or Hanuman> > > when any one mantra would suffice. OR it is like saying that we can> > > take paracetamol and pray that cancer is cured. I think I may have to> > > write a book on Mantra Shastra to validate the teachings of the vedic> > > seers.> > [sanjay Rath:] I got your point here. It’s a good point. > > Now somewhere you talked of wasting time!!! Look what you are doing. You were asked to work on Parashara by your Spiritual Master, and are you doing that? Me10, Ve7, Ve6...good research but is that from Parashara? > > I also know what argument you will give me - J You will say I am

already working on that and have some spare time to do this as well...to which I will have nothing to say.>

 

 

-

 

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

 

sohamsa@ .com ; Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

 

Cc: vedic astrology ;

 

Saturday, February 14, 2009 11:03 PM

 

On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)

 

 

 

Dear Sanjay,

 

 

 

> Since you do not have any real definition of Gandanta, I am dropping that

 

 

 

I do have a definition of gandanta, which is Parasara's definition in BPHS.

 

 

 

Since some of you are extrapolating it based on the fire embodied in UL and water embodied in tithis, the onus is on you to outline and justify your definition. I got into this thread because statements were made that fasting on particular weekdays or tithis in a chart can cause "insult to Vishnu", "serious doshas" and "danger to spouse", based on these far-fetched extrapolations of gandanta.

 

 

 

> Which is perfectly in line with everything I have learnt.

 

 

 

Well, you once taught that houses represent Sun/Shiva/truth and arudhas represent Moon/Gouri/percepti on. That was meaningful. Now, you associated UL, an arudha, with Sun and fire and 12th, a house, with Gouri and water. I question whether the new theory on fasting is really in line with everything you have learnt (and taught).

 

 

 

BTW, I specifically asked for a clarification on whether this was based on your own thinking or from classics/parampara (see quoted mail below for the full context). Like so many times with similar questions I asked privately and recently publicly, you did not respond.

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

> Statement 1 is an arrogance that the entire Jyotisha shastra is bogus

 

> and has no relevance as the remedial measures prescribed by

 

> Parasara and others to be done on specific days are irrlevant and

 

> not of much consequence.

 

 

 

First of all, Parasara did *not* prescribe fasting on specific weekdays or tithis based on any arudhas or houses in a chart.

 

 

 

For doshas in birth chart or to get relief from planetary afflictions or to get the blessings of planets, he suggested various *homas* (fire rituals) and described how to perform them. His section on remedial measures is full of various homas. I am not dismissing those remedies taught by Parasara himself and I am in fact slowly preparing manuals on them so that anybody can do them by themselves.

 

 

 

Parasara did *not* specify the weekday or tithi for most of these homas (e.g. planetary homas). Only for homas for specific birth doshas (e.g. Amavasya dosha or Moola dosha), he fixed the tithi or nakshatra based on the dosha and the deity. But the days are not based on any house or arudha in the chart.

 

 

 

Thus, the principles I am questioning are *not* from Parasara.

 

 

 

Second, I said what I said in a *context*. People are mentioning complicated principles that are not found in classics or works of rishis and scaring people that performing austerities such as fasting on certain days cause "danger to spouse" or "serious doshas" or "insult to Vishnu", based on horoscope. I find these principles illogical and based on hasty thinking. There may be a little difference between doing an austerity on different days, but my point is that it is smaller compared to the difference between doing and not doing at all and that doing it on a "wrong day" does not cause danger as being suggested.

 

 

 

Third, our shastras primarily talk about worshipping various deities on various days, based on the energy of the *deity*. For worshipping a certain deity, certain tithi or weekday or nakshatra is better than others. This is based on the deity and irrespective of the person worshipping. Let me give an analogy. If a rich man comes out with more money to give to beggars on a specific day, a beggar is better off going and begging on that day. Schedule and mood of the giver is more important.

 

 

 

Choosing the day of a remedy based on the deity is more important and the variations based on individual horoscope are less important. I am not saying there are no horoscopic variations. But they are smaller and, more importantly, I question if they are actually well-understood by astrologers today to apply *reliably*. I question over-emphasizing and over-selling unreliable principles of questionable origin and scaring people on that basis.

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

> Statement 2 is an arrogance that the entire mantra shastra is useless

 

> and the Rishi’s were wasting time in giving so many mantras for

 

> the same devata, like say thousands of mantras for Vishnu or Hanuman

 

> when any one mantra would suffice. OR it is like saying that we can

 

> take paracetamol and pray that cancer is cured. I think I may have to

 

> write a book on Mantra Shastra to validate the teachings of the vedic

 

> seers.

 

 

 

I did not say it is "useless". Instead, I suggest that our ability to use it is limited and we should take our limitations into consideration.

 

 

 

The universe has many lokas (planes of consciousness) , many beings and many objects. There are infinite karmic interactions possible between them. Accordingly, there are infinite possible mantras. When one is able to perfectly control the mind and *fill it* with a mantra (i.e. no thoughts but the mantra reverberating in the mind constantly), then one experiences the mantra. This perfect absorption of self-awareness in the mantra then causes internal changes by the flow of energy internally in specific ways (specific to the mantra) and that causes corresponding external changes in the universe and corresponding karmic interactions between various objects.

 

 

 

However, this variety of mantras, experiences and results is irrelevant to one who does not have such perfect control over the mind to absorb the mind fully in a mantra. It is relevant only to a seer whose self-awareness is quite evolved and hence control over mind impeccable. Such seers are extremely extremely rare today. Most people are unable to experience any mantra and mantras do not work for them as they are supposed to.

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

Just repeating a combination of sounds does not guarantee anything. Some people may think that certain results come when they repeat a mantra certain number of times. That is an incorrect notion. A mantra may work for one person quickly and another may spend the whole life chanting it and nothing may happen. Absorption of the entire mind into a mantra is needed for a mantra to really work and it is much more difficult than one may think.

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

A highly learned scholar in the court of a king may be able to command the king and get whatever he wants from king. An incapable one is better off begging the king, rather than trying to command (and failing for sure).

 

 

 

Similarly, most people are better off begging god for what they want rather than trying to use the right mantra to command what they want. A beggar does not need a huge vocabulary or great scholarship or knowledge. Feeling of humility and helplessness, surrender, patience and persistence are what help a beggar succeed. A beggar needs the right attitude rather than knowledge. In this age and time, best bet for most people is to learn to be a good beggar at god's door.

 

 

 

What people today need for material and spiritual progress through remedial measures is a better attitude in begging god rather than a better choice of tools such as mantras and other specifics such as weekday, tithi etc to command a specific result from god.

 

 

 

It is worth noting that so many great spiritual teachers who came in the last century or two did not emphasize picking the right mantra based on horoscope etc. Instead, they emphasized having the correct attitude - surrender, submission, devotion, patience, persistence, discipline, humility etc. *That* is a lot more important and useful than trying to be oversmart with the choice of mantra, day etc and impress god.

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

One more thing. We have many mantras given by rishis, but the guidelines from rishis like Parasara on how to pick a mantra based on the horoscope are very limited. Astrologers today do not operate solely based on them. They use all kinds of other rules coming from various traditions. They are not free from corruption and imperfection. Most scriptures associate various mantras with various results, irrespective of horoscope. For example, irrespective of who is the 6th lord and 8th lord and lord of A6 and A8, Rina Vimochaka Angaraka mantra is good for debt control. And so on. Linking of horoscope is overplayed by today's astrologers, way beyond the scope of Parasara's guidelines.

 

 

 

If one has a sadguru, I recommend following the word of sadguru rather than that of an astrology theoretician.

 

 

 

If not, there is no foolproof way to know the right path. Pick any path (given by an astrologer or one that you feel attracted to) instead of wasting time and then keep working on your attitude. The latter is the key. As I said earlier, learn to be a humble beggar at god's door. Choice of Mantra is secondary and attitude is primary. If you succeed in being a really humble beggar, you stand a better chance of success than great scholars.

 

 

 

 

Any prasiddha mantra (e.g. ashtakshari, panchakshari, dwadasakshari, navakshari, vishnu sahasranaam, rudram, hare krishna maha mantra, chandipath, ganapati atharva seersham, mrityunjaya mantra etc) can help one make progress if one develops the right attitude. Without the right attitude, even an impeaccably picked mantra will do nothing.

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

I hope this sufficiently clarifies my stand. I discuss these matters related to spiritual sadhana more on the . Some writings are sampled at http://www.vedicast rologer.org/ homam/writings. htm.

 

 

 

Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

 

om paramesthi gurave namah

 

 

 

Dear Narasimha,

 

 

 

Since you do not have any real definition of Gandanta, I am dropping that and continue with my belief of the junction between Agni and Jala rasi as the case of gandanta and the loka junctions. Which is perfectly in line with everything I have learnt.

 

 

 

Two statements you have made contradict standard texts on Jyotish and Mantra Shastra. Please correct me if I am not understanding you well out here -

 

 

 

1. Statement 1: *fasting on any day or any tithi* is good so long as the sankalpa has been made for the devata you intend to pray to. Results maybe a bit delayed but will be there.2. Statement 2: *reciting any prayer* will give the desired effects for any ailment we wish to remedy

 

 

 

Is this what you intended to say or did I get this wrong?

 

 

 

Statement 1 is an arrogance that the entire Jyotisha shastra is bogus and has no relevance as the remedial measures prescribed by Parasara and others to be done on specific days are irrlevant and not of much consequence. This sounds like another astrologer I had known some time back whose statements like this coerced me to write Vedic Remedies in Astrology so that people are not misled but such pretexts to knowledge.

 

 

 

Statement 2 is an arrogance that the entire mantra shastra is useless and the Rishi’s were wasting time in giving so many mantras for the same devata, like say thousands of mantras for Vishnu or Hanuman when any one mantra would suffice. OR it is like saying that we can take paracetamol and pray that cancer is cured. I think I may have to write a book on Mantra Shastra to validate the teachings of the vedic seers.

 

 

 

I think there is something wrong in the way you are saying what you want to say. Please rethink and correct your statements for the sake of good record in this list.

 

 

 

With Warm Regards

 

Sanjay Rath

 

http://srath. com http://sohamsa. com http:// .org

 

15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India

 

 

 

-

 

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

 

sohamsa@ .com

 

Sunday, February 08, 2009 12:03 PM

 

Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING

 

 

 

Namaste Sanjay and friends,

 

 

 

My answers are in red and prefixed with "[Narasimha] ".

 

 

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

 

> > >> tithi. The basic point is that Upapada is a rashi and carries energy> > >> of Vara or day. If you fast on the day ruled by tithi of the 2nd> > >> lord, you are bringing the jala energy to vara, and gandanta may> > >> occur, and spouse may come into a danger. So, what is the way out.> > Why does a rashi carry the energy of vaara only and not that of the tithi???? Why does rashi represent vaara or fire?> > [sanjay Rath:] Because Raashi were created by Surya and for doing so Surya took 12 forms called the Dvadasa Aditya...Narasimha you ask this?? What is happening?

 

> > After all, Rudra rules over the element of fire and Gouri rules over the element of water and one worships Gouri at the time of marriage. Moreover, Venus (water) is the karaka for marriage. So one could even say that UL/marriage is represented by water element and fasting on UL lord's tithi brings the element of water (prosperity and well-being) to one's marriage (UL)? One could even say that fasting on the weekday of UL lord should be prohibited as it brings the fire element represented by weekday to the water of UL and causes "gandanta"!> > [sanjay Rath:] UL is the Maya and is associated with the Raashi Narasimha. It is the 12L which is the creator of the UL...just as the mother Gouri creates everything through the shakti of the graha, all the arudha are created by her due to the lordships of the planets. So fasting on the tithi lorded by the 12th lord will be a

*more correct* answer.

 

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

 

 

[Narasimha] We always say that houses (truth) are represented by Sun (aatman) and arudha padas (maya) by Moon (mind).

 

 

 

Thus, 12th house is the actual creator and UL is the apparent creator in the field of maya. Houses (truth) should actually be associated with Sun (aatman) and Shiva (and not Gouri), while arudha padas (perception) should actually be associated with Moon (mind) and Gouri. After all, that is what we do in the tripod method in dasa judgment.

 

 

 

Thus, it is actually more logical to say that 12th house and 12th lord imbibe the agni tattva of Sun and UL and UL lord imbibe the jala tattva of Moon.

 

 

 

Is the above "*more correct* answer" based on your own thinking or is it from a classic or from tradition?

 

 

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

 

> The mantra one meditates with at the end of a day's fasting is far more effective than at other times. The conservation of energy otherwise spent on digestion or speech will enable far more effective mantra meditation. So fast or keep mouna and then meditate with a mantra, to maximize the effect of the mantra.> > [sanjay Rath:] I do not agree with this. Correct eating is the best blessing for good mantra practise. On days when one fasts the mind is troubled by hunger causing the stomach to burn and churn and this disturbs mantra japa. Correct eating (alpa aahaara) is many many times better than complete fasting.

 

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

 

 

[Narasimha] Well, if one cannot fast, then one is destined to expend some energy on digestion after all and not focus all energy on the mantra. But the bottomline is that shastras say that one should meditate either without or with very little food (niraahaaro mitaahaaro). In any case, I hope we agree that meditation sessions after heavy eating are heavily restrained in effectiveness.

 

 

 

 

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

> Seriously, however, this kind of stretching of gandanta concepts is quite illogical.> > [sanjay Rath:] It is not stretching ... it is the very definition of gandanta – the interface between fire and water. Put a burning match in a glass of water, the fire dies...There are other Ganda’s in the chart but they are not anta (ends). Take Chitra ganda between Kanya and Tula.

 

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

 

 

[Narasimha] Putting a burning match in a glass of water does indeed kill fire. But the question is of contact. If I am thinking of fire in my mind while standing in water, it does not kill the fire. There is no contact.

 

 

 

My point is that the examples given have no real identifiable contact between water and fire.

 

 

 

One can be creative and come up with a lot of theories. For example, one can say that Moon and Venus are jala tattva and all rasis show agni tattva (then why are some rasis marked as agni rasis and some as water rasis etc) and hence the sign occupied by Moon and Venus cause contact between water and fire. Then one can say fasting on the weekdays of the dispositors of Moon and Venus causes gandanta and serious danger.

 

 

 

It is not enough to show some fire and some water. See what counts as contact. Otherwise, one will engage in illogical extrapolations.

 

 

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

 

 

 

> Three years back you said you are leaving jyotish....then again you told me two years back and again recently that you are leaving jyotish. Now it is getting very evident that *jyotish is leaving you*. The knowledge of Jyotish is PERFECT – individuals embody it in different levels of their understanding and intelligence.

 

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

 

 

 

[Narasimha] Nothing is permanent. What is one's cannot be taken away. And one cannot cling on to what is not one's. Some rejoice when it seems like something comes and cry when it seems like something leaves. Some impassionately observe as things seem to come and go and do what they see as their dharma with the things they seem to have.

 

Just a factual correction though

: I never said I was leaving Jyotish. For a few years after my spiritual master entered my life, my interest in other things went down (though I continued to do other things) and my focus on spiritual sadhana intensified. So I said that my interest in Jyotish was very low. However, my guru gave me a task later. He wanted me to study the teachings of Parasara independently, meditate on them and share my interpretations with the world. He said I was very passionate in my Jyotish activities earlier, and he wanted me to do the same now but dispassionately and without an attachment. He felt that I still have a contribution to make to Jyotish and wants me to do it as an unattached karma. His word is everything for me.

 

 

 

What I told you recently is not that I was leaving Jyotish but what I said above.

 

 

 

However, if your judgment is correct and if Jyotish is indeed "leaving" me, I am sure my spiritual guru will realize it sooner or later and change his command to me.

 

 

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

 

 

 

> I can categorically declare one thing with utmost confidence. You pick any weekday or tithi and take a vow to fast or do mouna vrata (remain silent) on that weekday or tithi and meditate with a particular mantra (any) at the end of the day. You can take a vow to keep that practice for a certain duration of time (say, a few months or years) for a specific purpose. Take a vow and keep the vrata for the duration. If brahmacharya can be kept for the duration of the vrata, there is nothing like it!> > [sanjay Rath:] This is a fine statement but then you seem to be saying that the Puranas and other teachings of the seers is of not much relevance. Of course you are right as it will be spiritually beneficial. For example, a person wishing to marry should not fast on UL days and should choose any day (all days are the same) or any tithi (all tithi are the same) and start

fasting and do a mantra (any mantra!!) and then in a few days, or (maybe) a few months (or maybe) a few years ... or maybe (what you did not say), a few lifetimes, the marriage will happen! I cannot say you are wrong, so I agree that what you say is right.

 

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

 

 

[Narasimha] This is a gross exaggeration.

 

 

 

Is all that is being taught and practiced now strictly from "Puranas and other teachings of the seers"?

 

 

 

I did not say all days and tithis are the same. Of course, there is some difference. But, it is not as big as being made here.

 

 

 

To make khoa, whether one uses cow milk or buffalo milk or milk of a brown cow or a black cow or a Jersey cow or another cow does make some difference. But it is secondary. To say that "danger" and "serious doshas" (see the quoted mails for such claims) can be caused by a wrong choice is wrong. To say that a wrong choice means khoa will take 100 years to make is also a gross exaggeration.

 

 

 

The main thing is that you need milk and sugar. If one is confused by endless claims of khoa making consultants and ends up not making khoa at all, that will be sad. In such a case, one can simply pick some milk or the other, take sugar and start cooking khoa. It will take an extra half hour, but the job will be done.

 

 

 

I request Jyotishis to behave responsibly and humbly and not engage in scare-mongering and say that a speicifc austerity (fasting on a specific weekday or tithi in a chart) can cause "danger" and "serious doshas". No wonder some spiritual teachers look down upon Jyotish and dismiss it. Such unbalanced attitude and self-importance from us does not help our cause!

 

 

 

Yes, Jyotish is helpful, but let us not oversell it or overplay the importance.. .

 

 

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

 

 

 

> Gem stones may harm when used incorrectly. But, austerities like prayers, fasting, mouna vrata and brahmacharya will NEVER do you any harm. If your body can take fasting, you can do it on any weekday or tithi without too many calculations.> > [sanjay Rath:] Brahmacharya is good for someone planning to have a baby or one who cannot conceive and this is kept for some period before the appointed date of nisheka. Brahmacharya is good for marriage?! I think you are mistaking abstinence from physical union as Brahmacharya. Oh no its so different.

 

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

 

 

[Narasimha] Of course, brahmacharya is much more, but also very difficult for most. Even physical celibacy is a good enough austerity. Physical celibacy over an extended period of time increases the efficacy of other austerities such as fasting, mouna vrata, meditation and homam.

 

 

 

Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

sohamsa@ .com, "Sanjay Rath" <sjrath wrote:>> om paramesthi gurave namah> > Dear Narasimha> > Just added a few thoughts and questions since we are on the topic of spirituality, which is not my forte. So I am always seeking to learn.> > With Warm Regards> > Sanjay Rath> > http://srath. com http://sohamsa. com http:// .org> > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India> > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa@

. com] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao> 06 February 2009 00:48> sohamsa@ .com> Cc: > Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING> > Namaste friends,> > I would like to express my reservations on a couple of issues. It is funny that I should be typing this email on an Ekadashi day, when many Vaishnavas fast irrespective of their horoscopes.> > [sanjay Rath:] I write on dvadasi when so many vasihnava also fast and keep great austerities. J Any difference?> > > >> Here is my point and view about the question raised. 2nd bhava is> > >> the bhava of Vishnu, sustainer, and if we fast on the day of UL in> > >> 2nd house,

we bring insult to Vishnu who provides the food for us.> > My dear Zoran, please allow me to express my disagreement.> > Austerities can never be seen as an insult to Vishnu. Self-deprivation of 2nd house matters such as food (fasting) or speech (mouna vrata - vow of silence) are austerities. Giving up food or speech is not an insult to Vishnu just as giving up sex (i.e. brahmacharya) is not an insult to Sukracharya (Venus).> > [sanjay Rath:] I though Brahma was very angry that his sons decided not to have progeny and stayed celibate. So He created others. Why was Brahma angry when his sons remained celibate? Why should Sukracharya be angry if someone is celibate? How is it an insult or not an insult to Sukracharya? You are taking planet signification of Venus for 7H ...and linking this to creation process...which is wrong Narasimha. Brahma is seen from lords of dusthana 6, 8 and 12 from lagna or 7th which

is....you know this.There is nothing wrong with the 7th house as it is necessary for procreation. It is only the link of this with the Brahma graha that causes it to become a serious shad-ripu. Married people are as eligible for moksha as unmarried ones and bachelors. It depends on the following of dharma and ashrama.> > Various gods bestow various things on us, some at the gross physical level and some at the subtle spiritual level. As we overcome our dependendency on gross things, we make progress at the subtle level.> > If one eats food, a good amount of internal fire (and subtle internal energy associated with it) is used for digesting it and for generating physical energy from it. If one fasts, that subtle energy is unused and available for other things. This is a tremendous benefit. As a result, one can better digest mantras and spiritual food available all around one.> > The mantra one meditates with at

the end of a day's fasting is far more effective than at other times. The conservation of energy otherwise spent on digestion or speech will enable far more effective mantra meditation. So fast or keep mouna and then meditate with a mantra, to maximize the effect of the mantra.> > [sanjay Rath:] I do not agree with this. Correct eating is the best blessing for good mantra practise. On days when one fasts the mind is troubled by hunger causing the stomach to burn and churn and this disturbs mantra japa. Correct eating (alpa aahaara) is many many times better than complete fasting.> > > >> However, to be honest, I have not heard this about 2nd lord and> > >> tithi. The basic point is that Upapada is a rashi and carries energy> > >> of Vara or day. If you fast on the day ruled by tithi of the 2nd> > >> lord, you are bringing the jala energy to vara, and gandanta

may> > >> occur, and spouse may come into a danger. So, what is the way out.> > Why does a rashi carry the energy of vaara only and not that of the tithi???? Why does rashi represent vaara or fire?> > [sanjay Rath:] Because Raashi were created by Surya and for doing so Surya took 12 forms called the Dvadasa Aditya...Narasimha you ask this?? What is happening?> > After all, Rudra rules over the element of fire and Gouri rules over the element of water and one worships Gouri at the time of marriage. Moreover, Venus (water) is the karaka for marriage. So one could even say that UL/marriage is represented by water element and fasting on UL lord's tithi brings the element of water (prosperity and well-being) to one's marriage (UL)? One could even say that fasting on the weekday of UL lord should be prohibited as it brings the fire element represented by weekday to the water of UL and causes

"gandanta"!> > [sanjay Rath:] UL is the Maya and is associated with the Raashi Narasimha. It is the 12L which is the creator of the UL...just as the mother Gouri creates everything through the shakti of the graha, all the arudha are created by her due to the lordships of the planets. So fasting on the tithi lorded by the 12th lord will be a *more correct* answer.> > Seriously, however, this kind of stretching of gandanta concepts is quite illogical.> > [sanjay Rath:] It is not stretching ... it is the very definition of gandanta – the interface between fire and water. Put a burning match in a glass of water, the fire dies...There are other Ganda’s in the chart but they are not anta (ends). Take Chitra ganda between Kanya and Tula.> > Now one more thing: Marriage is a yoga between two souls and why not suggest fasting on the yoga day of the UL lord?> > [sanjay Rath:]

What! What a brilliant suggestion.. .why don’t you start it? > > * * *> > > Now suppose instead of 11th house if Mercury goes to 12th house or 4 > > house then you cannot choose Dwadashi or Chaturthi for the same > > because these thithis are ruled by Mercury only and fasting on these > > tithis will create serious doshas.> > Picking tithi based on house (12th house - Dwadashi, 4th house - Chaturthi) is illogical as there are 12 houses only and more tithis.> I have realized one thing over the years - If something is not structurally sound, it is most likely false knowledge.> > [sanjay Rath:] J No comments> > * * *> > I can categorically declare one thing with utmost confidence. You pick any weekday or tithi and take a vow to fast or do mouna vrata (remain silent) on that weekday or tithi and meditate with a particular

mantra (any) at the end of the day. You can take a vow to keep that practice for a certain duration of time (say, a few months or years) for a specific purpose. Take a vow and keep the vrata for the duration. If brahmacharya can be kept for the duration of the vrata, there is nothing like it!> > [sanjay Rath:] This is a fine statement but then you seem to be saying that the Puranas and other teachings of the seers is of not much relevance. Of course you are right as it will be spiritually beneficial. For example, a person wishing to marry should not fast on UL days and should choose any day (all days are the same) or any tithi (all tithi are the same) and start fasting and do a mantra (any mantra!!) and then in a few days, or (maybe) a few months (or maybe) a few years ... or maybe (what you did not say), a few lifetimes, the marriage will happen! I cannot say you are wrong, so I agree that what you say is right.> > If

you keep such a vrata sincerely, you will make positive progress towards achieving your purpose and definitely not go backwards, irrespective of what is said by technical calculations based on our half-baked Jyotish knowledge.> > * * *> > My friends, use the Jyotish knowledge available, but do realize that it is imperfect and corrupted. Why is only the UL lord important? So many planets may have so many kinds of influence on UL in a chart. And UL is one of several factors showing marriage. There may be various influences in a chart showing marriage. Is our thumb rule of using UL lord's weekday missing some important factors? Quite possible!> > [sanjay Rath:] That is a very nasty statement. Once again you have used adjectives (*imperfect, corrupted*) which is not becoming of you. Why must you use nasty statements? Can’t you say things nicely? > > Three years back you said you are leaving

jyotish....then again you told me two years back and again recently that you are leaving jyotish. Now it is getting very evident that *jyotish is leaving you*. The knowledge of Jyotish is PERFECT – individuals embody it in different levels of their understanding and intelligence. > > If you have the time to listen to the Jaimini Lectures at http://sohamsa. com/js/ do so as it will show you the depths of this knowledge you cannot imagine exists in jyotish. The derivation of the chnhandas and what not all. Thumb rules are meant for beginners. The day you decided to give up jyotish, you got stuck in the thumb rules but then its ok with me. I always wished you the best in whatever you do.> > But, despite some arbitrariness and imperfection, if a thumb rule allows you to pick an austerity with confidence and create the mental feeling that you are doing the best

possible thing for your situation, it is good. After all, what is critical is to do *some* austerity to burn the blocking karma, with a positive frame of mind about what you are doing.> > [sanjay Rath:] No Narasimha, very happy marriages can happen, without austerities as well.> > But, if endless theorization and complicated technicalities evolving from the thumb rule are creating doubts and confusion in the minds of people as they consider an austerity, that is useless and totally missing the point.> > Some people tend to resort to heavy theorization based on very shaky grounds. I suggest going back to the basics, thinking clearly and keeping things simple.> > [sanjay Rath:] Human brains work differently in seeking the truth and means to remedy the errors. Life is too complicated to keep everything simple. For example, a heavily cursed Venus can block everything and UL fast may not be able to

solve the problem. Now would you say that heavy thoerization and complication is happening and we should ignore the other factors completely?> > Gem stones may harm when used incorrectly. But, austerities like prayers, fasting, mouna vrata and brahmacharya will NEVER do you any harm. If your body can take fasting, you can do it on any weekday or tithi without too many calculations.> > [sanjay Rath:] Brahmacharya is good for someone planning to have a baby or one who cannot conceive and this is kept for some period before the appointed date of nisheka. Brahmacharya is good for marriage?! I think you are mistaking abstinence from physical union as Brahmacharya. Oh no its so different.> > Best regards,> Narasimha> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana> Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% 40. com> , Ajay Zharotia <ajayzharotia@> wrote:> > ||Om Gurave Namah||> > > > Dear Swee, & jyotishis> > > > What Zoran is saying is right. Do not mix the energy of day lord > > (Agni) by choosing the same tithi (jala) that will create serious > > troubles for the spouse.> > Let me explain the principle in a simple way so that there should not > > be any confusion.> > > > In your chart (Swee) Vrishabha lagna, UL is in 2nd house. So lord of > > the UL is the Mercury. Since fasting is prohibited for UL in 2nd > > house see where the lord of the UL has gone. In your case mercury has > > gone to the 11th house hence it is Ekadashi. So rule is to choose the >

> tithi is based on the placement of the UL lord.> > > > Now suppose instead of 11th house if Mercury goes to 12th house or 4 > > house then you cannot choose Dwadashi or Chaturthi for the same > > because these thithis are ruled by Mercury only and fasting on these > > tithis will create serious doshas.> > > > If you are doing fasting on the basis of tithis it should be done in > > sukla paksha only. But if you are doing in Krishna paksha (Pitris) > > also then it should be combined with the donation.> > > > I hope this will clarify the principal.> > > > Best Regards> > > > Ajay Zharotia> > ajayzharotia@> > > > On Feb 4, 2009, at 12:51 PM, Sanjay Prabhakaran wrote:> > > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> > > Dear Swee,> > > Can you

please tell me the exact rule to use for fasting on > > > tithi?.Do we use the 12th lord tithi?, Like if you are Ta lagna, > > > there 2 tithi one on Triteeya (3) and Ekadasha(11) . If we consider > > > only the paksh in which u are born.> > > Now of the two which to use?.> > >> > > Warm Regards> > > Sanjay p> > >> > > 2009/2/3 Swee Chan <swee@>> > > Jaya Jagannatha> > >> > > Dear Hari, Zoki, et al in this discussion,> > > Namaste> > >> > > The tongue in cheek, I'll excuse ;-)) it's my laugh for the day!!> > > I fast on ekadasi tithi because my UL is in 2nd house (ie 12th lord > > > is in lagna). Since I was born on sukla paksha, Sanjay ji suggests > > > that I fast only on sukla ekadasi.> > > Zoki, if

you listen to JUS of Year I, you will note how Sanjay ji > > > came to this conclusion.> > >> > > love,> > >> > > Swee> > >> > > On 3 Feb 2009, at 15:25, Jyotisa Shisya wrote:> > >> > >> |om|> > >> Dear Zoran, namaste> > >>> > >> Would not the general act of fasting be construed as an insult to > > >> Sri MahaVishnu?> > >>> > >> best regards> > >> Hari> > >>> > >> On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 5:30 PM, ahimsavm <ahimsans@> > > >> wrote:> > >> Om Namah Shivaya,> > >> Dear Bojan and others,> > >> Here is my point and view about the question raised. 2nd bhava is> > >> the bhava of Vishnu, sustainer, and if we fast on

the day of UL in> > >> 2nd house, we bring insult to Vishnu who provides the food for us.> > >> However, to be honest, I have not heard this about 2nd lord and> > >> tithi. The basic point is that Upapada is a rashi and carries energy> > >> of Vara or day. If you fast on the day ruled by tithi of the 2nd> > >> lord, you are bringing the jala energy to vara, and gandanta may> > >> occur, and spouse may come into a danger. So, what is the way out.> > >> The simple solution is to do vrata which do not conflict with> > >> rejection of food. So a person may observe the fast on UL in 2nd> > >> day, however, adequate food should be offered as a prasad and eaten> > >> before the Sunrise (not complete fast).In this way, results may come> > >> a bit later, but will certainly come, while a

person will not bring> > >> insult to Shri Vishnu by rejecting the food.> > >> This is the way I was taught, and ofcourse others may agree or not.> > >> Best wishes> > >> Zoran Radosavljevic> > >> www.siva-edu. info> > >> www.ahimsazr1. wordpress. com

Get the world's best email - Xtra Mail

 

 

 

 

Check out the all-new Messenger 9.0!

 

 

Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now.

[Guest guest]

Hare Rama Krishna

Dear

Hari,

There

have been mails on the lists for the past two years which has been turning many

of us cold. The people who wrote those mails I feel must be particulraly

troubled; for everyone on the lists do not write such mails. Only 2-3 people

do. I know you and many others are prickly about my comments, but that is

expected.  

Best

Regards,

Sarbani

Rath

Homepage:

http://sarbani.com

Sagittarius

Publications: http://sagittariuspublications.com

Sohamsa:

http://sohamsa.com

Sri

Jagannath Centre: http://.org

 

 

 

 

sohamsa

[sohamsa ] On Behalf Of Jyotisa Shisya

03 March 2009 10:02

sohamsa

Re: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re:

Resolving Points)

 

 

 

 

 

 

om

sri rama jaya rama jaya jaya rama

 

Dear Sanjay/Narasimha, pranaams

 

 

 

 

 

Please forgive me for my comments that I am about to make.

First, this discussion initially very interesting is now turning me cold.

 

 

 

 

 

Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa repeatedly scoffed at the idea that

God is compassionate. His argument was that God has been and continues to be

compassionate from day one of our existence. And through out my life, this

is one thing that I have realized i.e., that God is very, very compassionate.

 

 

 

 

 

So now, Sanjay, tell me one thing: if a person happens to fast

for whatever reason on some particular day/tithi, why is it equated to an

insult on the most compassionate Vishnu?

 

 

 

 

 

Do you not find this absurd? Yet this is the crux of what was

stated in a recent discussion thread.

 

 

 

 

 

Secondly, Sarbani wrote in this discussion thread that there are

troubled souls out there indulging in all this talk about corruption of

principles and what not. Again this is absurd as to paraphrase Mirabai, there

are troubled souls everywhere on this planet Earth and everyone of them is in

search of the truth, whatver it may be called.

 

 

 

 

 

best regards

 

 

Hari

 

 

 

 

 

best regards

 

 

Hari

 

 

 

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Sanjay,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>

No No Narasimha, mantra is beautiful. It is not *ardous* like

 

 

 

>

climbing mountain. It is beautiful like a dance – yes a dance

 

 

 

>

on top of Kailash with Lord Shiva.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, if mantra is really like a

dance on top of Kailasha for you, you are fortunate. However, most people do

have to engage in an arduous climbing to enjoy such a dance. If I (or anybody

else) were to tell people that mantras work magically without a lot of

discipline and effort and internal maturing, I would be misleading them. If I

were to tell people that their problems will be magically solved because they

came to me and got the perfect mantra to the perfect deity, I would be

misleading them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

>

So this sermn is very wrong really. I have mantra lord Moon in

 

 

>

12th house, so it s a dance for me, you have 5th lord

(mantra) in

 

 

>

8th house (hard) in debility in Aries (mountain), so it like

 

 

>

climbing a mountain for you.

 

 

>

You see here

also the karma plays out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Karma does indeed play out, but the question

is whether we are reading it correctly or not!

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, my 5th lord is indeed in 8th but with

several planets and aspected by Jupiter and giving many yogas. Are we sure

we are judging it correctly? Yes, your 5th lord is in 12th, but he is in marana

karaka sthana from 5th and aspected closely by Rahu. Are we sure we are judging

it correctly?

 

 

 

 

 

Bottomline is that judging the play of karmas

is not a simple thing and one can always make mistakes. In any case, I suggest

that we should not get personal under the pretext of demonstrating how karmas

play out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

> Secondly, whether someone is training to be a beggar at Gods

door

 

 

> is the work of his/her spiritual master and NOT that

of the Jyotishi.

 

 

> An astrologer is *required to be humble* and not arrogate

to himself

 

 

> this task of asking people to be humble before God or such

things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK, so what then is the task of this

" humble " astrologer? If telling people to surrender to god and pray

is arrogance, what do you call telling people that one has knowledge which will

let them get what they want from god? Also, is it really humble to make

statements that austerities can bring dangers and insult to Vishnu? When an

astrologer recommends mantras and makes statements like these, one is already

encroaching on the space of a spiritual master somewhat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

> ....since the letter is addressed to me it implies that you

mean *I am selfish*

 

 

 

 

 

 

Though the mail is addressed to you, a lot of

portions inside are addressed to all. The above point is not about any specific

person. I apologize for any confusion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

> > > OK, just spell it out. What is

the reason for Gandanta being in 0 deg,

 

 

> > > 120 deg and 240 deg of the

zodiac if it is not a junction between agni

 

 

> > > and jala...I want to her your

words if you have any.

 

 

> >

 

 

> > Parasara's definition of gandanta

is restricted to two neighboring areas in a

 

 

> > contiguous space having a

predominance of fire and water elements. " I see

 

 

> > fire and I see water. So there is

gandanta " is a wrong approach. One can

 

 

> > then call Venus, a watery planet,

being in a fiery sign or Mars, a fiery planet,

 

 

> > being in a watery sign as gandanta.

Gandanta requires a *transition* in a

 

 

> > contiguous space. In your example

of upapada lord's tithi, there is no

 

 

> > contiguous space where there is a

water-fire transition.

 

 

> >

 

 

 

 

>

There is something called Tithi Gandanta! Gandanta exists between

 

 

>

Purna and nanda tithi.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, but we do have a contiguous

space here. The contiguous 0-360 deg space of Sun-Moon angle has portions with

predominance of different elements. When there are transitions between

portioins having a predominance of fire and water, Parasara gave a tithi

gandanta there.

 

 

 

 

 

When you are talking about the

tithi of UL lord, what is the contiguous space, what are its portions and

what are the transitions? It is an illogical extension of gandanta.

 

 

 

 

 

*

* *

 

 

 

 

 

In conclusion, I will sum up my

main points. [This is copied from the other mail from today and slightly

edited.]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(1) The knowledge needed for

judging specific karmas responsible for specific results and suggesting

specific remedies is partly lost and partly corrupted today. What we have is a

non-coherent collage of some good knowledge and a lot of corruptions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The way gandanta is being

stretched and people are talking of insult to Vishnu by fasting etc, it should

be clear that knowledge is being corrupted based on fancy imagination. People

are presenting their ideas without making it clear that those are their ideas.

 

 

 

 

 

(2) Many people today are unable

to use many specific remedies given in shastras today. Just because one

worships a specific form with a specific mantra, things do not necessarily

happen. There is a lot more needed and most of it is not external (e.g. choice

of weekday or tithi or color of clothes, direction faced etc) but internal

(e.g. discipline, patience, surrender, humility, low ego etc). In the old days,

these internal issues were pretty much under control and mantras worked well.

Now, people lack on those big time and mantras do not work the way they are

supposed to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Given the above two points, best

path for one today is to surrender to a deity, try to instill discipline,

humility and patience and pray for mercy, rather than running after

astrologers for customized remedies.

 

 

 

 

 

(3) *Austerities* like fasting do *not* harm one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

Narasimha

 

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

Spirituality:

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

 

 

 

 

 

 

sohamsa ,

" Sanjay Rath " <sjrath wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

om paramesthi gurave namah

Dear Narasimha

 

 

 

 

 

 

> Mantra Shastra

is a very detailed work and includes mantra dosha etc.

 

 

 

> It is very

scientific and accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this.

 

 

Some may be

fascinated by the texture, color and volume of the chaff and miss the grain.

 

 

 

 

Most people who talk

about mantra shastra focus on the chaff and not on the grain.

 

[sanjay

Rath:] This sounds like saying that Einsten is bogus as Newtons theory can

explain everything! Viewpoint is very important. Perhaps what you call the

grain is the tree itself! That is the depth of knowledge which decides whether

you have the ability to reach the grain or are still searching for the tree.

 

 

*

* *

 

 

But the bottomline

is this: Only a highly purified sadhaka of very low ego can command specific

results from god (not for selfishness or even ego satisfaction, but acting as

an unattached instrument of Nature fulfilling one's dharma set by Nature).

Various mantras and technicalities of mantra shastra taught by rishis are meant

for such sadhakas.

[sanjay

Rath:] When will you start learning this?

 

 

Those are hardly of

use to so many people out there with dense egos seeking specific selfish

results. They cannot command specific results from god (because of their heavy

attachment to the result, which is in turn due to their own attachment to a

limited ego), even if they use all the techniques of mantra shastra and all the

associated rules of astrology. Instead of wasting their time with these

technicalities, they will be better off learning to be good beggars at God's

door.

[sanjay

Rath:] This is wrong. There was a time when there were only a few very

qualified doctors and they alone could cure. When the knowledge is shared, more

doctors arrive in the planet and they too can heal.

 

Secondly,

whether someone is training to be a beggar at Gods door is the work of his/her

spiritual master and NOT that of the Jyotishi. An astrologer is *required to be

humble* and not arrogate to himself this task of asking people to be humble

before God or such things. The path that every creature takes is that of the

spiritual master they seek and follow. And it is the humility to the Guru alone

that brings the ego under control and makes it humble. One who cannot be humble

before the Guru is a gross failure when he tries to be humble before God and submit.

So what you are saying is actually *not fully correct*

The

first step is to be a beggar before the teacher/guru and then alone can you be

ready to be a beggar at the doors of God.

 

 

 

Just pick any

prasiddha mantra or a mantra you feel attracted to, without worrying about so

many technicalities, and learn to be humble and surrender to the Lord.

Patiently wait for him to give you what you want. Like a beggar, take whatever

and whenever he gives.

[sanjay

Rath:] I have done this for about 30 years now, and I believe many people in

this list have done this for maybe even longer periods. What is the new thing

you are saying?

 

 

Keep praying every

day or every second when you are able to. Even when you are not praying,

remember him in all of your actions. When you enjoy something in the material

world, tell yourself that it is his and that he gave it to you. If you

remember him all the time, slowly the dirt in your mind will start to get

cleaned. This fixing of attitude is faaaaaaaaaaaar more important than picking

the right mantra, right weekday, right tithi etc (that too based on unreliable

knowledge coming from questionable sources!).

[sanjay

Rath:] Stop giving a sermon Narasimha?? I know all this, so what is it that you

are talking about? Come to the point.

 

It

is pathetic that what you say as *unreliable source* is what you practised for

a decade and never questioned it until suddenly when you are *not a part of the

Jaimini scholar program* !!

Vaara/Weekday

prayers -

 

Forget

the first batch of Jaimini scholars, just ask anyone in the second batch in

year-2/3 and they can easily explain –

 

 

Why is Lord Shiva worshipped on Mondays?

 

Why is Lord Vishnu worshipped on Thursdays?

 

 

Now

don’t try to tell me you did not know that Lord Shiva is worshipped by

millions of Indians on Mondays!

Tithi

Prayers

Fasting

on tithi’s concerned to the birth anniversary of the devata on the days of

the tithi are too well known. And you are a software maker, have written papers

on this also. So why this sudden volta-face?

 

Ekadashi

fasting is done by a few millions of people for Krishna for Yuga santarana i.e.

tiding over the Yuga effects.

Why

is ekadashi fasting advocated for this? What link does Ekadashi have to Kali

yuga? You do not know the answer does not mean that it is wrong. And if you

know the answer, then why do you say that the tithi fasting is wrong??!

 

 

 

*

* *

 

 

There may be a

mountain with thousands of paths (mantra) for climbing it. Each path may

lead to a different spot (different experience) on the top and show a different

scenery (result). Expert advisors (astrologers) may tell you to use a specific

path (mantra) to see a specific scenery (result). But such advice is useless to

a handicapped person without legs (a selfish person with dense ego). It is

relevant only to person with legs and one who is strong and sturdy, who can

successfully climb the mountain (a reasonably detached person with very little

ego).

[sanjay

Rath:] Another Sermon about being selfish

.....since

the letter is addressed to me it implies that you mean *I am selfish*. ...and

now people will be wondering about what am I selfish? Is it because I did not

share the Jaimni scholar lectures? I invited you and een was prepard to shift

dates, but you were too busy filming about Krishna’s birth or something.

 

 

 

Even when you

encounter a person who has legs and can actually climb the mountain, the stress

should be on how to climb the mountain and traverse the long path, rather than

which path to take. The astrologers who are bogged down by all the

technicalities and people who take customized mantra advice from astrologers

and think that they will get a result quickly by doing that 'powerful' mantra

are missing the basic point. The power of a powerful mantra is with respect to

the experience and result obtained *after* one succeeds with the

mantra. A partcicularly powerful mantra is akin to a path leading to a point

atop the mountain where the view shows a particularly beautiful scenery. But

the bottomline is that you do have to survive the climb along the long path.

 

[sanjay

Rath:] No No Narasimha, mantra is beautiful. It is not *ardous* like climbing

mountain. It is beautiful like a dance – yes a dance on top of Kailash with

Lord Shiva.

 

So

this sermn is very wrong really. I have mantra lord Moon in 12th

house, so it s a dance for me, you have 5th lord (mantra) in 8th

house (hard) in debility in Aries (mountain), so it like climbing a mountain

for you.

You

see here also the karma plays out.

 

 

 

We need to emphasize

the attitude and approach needed for the long climb, rather than emphasizing

the choice of the path based on horoscope. It is worth noting that so many

great spiritual teachers who came in the last century or two did not emphasize

picking the right mantra based on horoscope etc. Instead, they emphasized

having the correct attitude - surrender, submission, devotion, patience,

persistence, discipline, humility etc!!!! *That* is a lot more

important and useful than trying to be oversmart with the choice of mantra, day

etc and impress god.

[sanjay

Rath:] Really and how do you wish to *STANDADIZE* this? You have a given

formula for the approach and attitude or is it borrowed from another, and if so

then why are you assuming that the people in this list do not know about

*surrender, submission, devotion, patience, persistence, discipline, humility

etc!!!! *

 

No

one is trying to be over smart. They are being smart.

They

are only using certain rules to approach based on available knowledge. And that

knowledge seems to be bothering you like your problem with Upapada fasting.

 

 

 

 

*

* *

 

 

> when should the

worship of a graha be done? Let us say someone

 

 

 

> wishes to

worship Mars (Mangala graha). When do you think this

 

 

> worship should

be done?

 

 

 

You can do anyday.

Parasara does not mention any day for doing homam to a graha.

 

 

In fact, if

one wants, one can do a homam or worship to Mars (or any planet) every

day. It is even better that way.

 

 

 

 

If an

astrologer suggests doing it on a Tuesday, it is fine. But saying that doing it

on so and so day will bring serious dangers because Mars is an enemy of so and

so planet would be stretching things.

 

[sanjay

Rath:] Read the PURANAS. What you write clearly shows lack of understanding  of

the Puranas. Why would the Rishi advise a particular day? Are they wrong? Why

is the Gayatri initiation done on Wednesdays and Thursdays? Why is it not done

on Saturday?

 

You

earlier said that this can be done on any day, then why did they advise a

particular day for this?

 

 

 

> [sanjay Rath:]

Where do you think Veda Vyasa (Krishna dvaipaayana) got his

 

 

 

> knowledge and

those who wrote it as scribes for him, where did they get it from?

 

 

 

 

 

From Self

- from within. That is the source of all knowledge. A sadguru

need not specifically teach thousand things, but needs to open the door inside.

 

[sanjay

Rath:] THAT IS AHAMKARA speaking.

The

correct answer in complete humility is “The knowledge comes from one source

– Bhagavan.†Surrender to Him and he is the one who will have the door

opened, and then the self will gradually fade away like a mist coming over a house.

 

 

 

 

*

* *

 

 

> OK, just spell

it out. What is the reason for Gandanta being in 0 deg,

 

 

> 120 deg and 240

deg of the zodiac if it is not a junction between agni

 

 

> and jala...I

want to her your words if you have any.

 

 

Parasara's

definition of gandanta is restricted to two neighboring areas in a contiguous

space having a predominance of fire and water elements. " I see fire and I

see water. So there is gandanta " is a wrong approach. One can then call

Venus, a watery planet, being in a fiery sign or Mars, a fiery planet, being in

a watery sign as gandanta. Gandanta requires a *transition* in a contiguous

space.

 

 

 

 

In your example of

upapada lord's tithi, there is no contiguous space where there is a water-fire

transition.

 

[sanjay

Rath:] There is something called Tithi Gandanta! Gandanta exists between Purna

and nanda tithi.

 

What

is wrong with tithi fasting related to the devata of the planet associated with

the Upapada? While Vara vrata will bring about marriage, tithi vrata associated

with the devata should sustain it? Similarly, malefic in the 12th

house can also be pacified either by their devata or if there are planets in

the 8th house, then these planets shall support.

 

 

 

> Now somewhere

you talked of wasting time!!! Look what you are doing.

 

 

 

> You were asked

to work on Parashara by your Spiritual Master, and

 

 

> are you doing

that? Me10, Ve7, Ve6...good research but is that from

 

 

>

Parashara?

 

 

 

Well, Me10, Ve7 etc

theory is based on marrying two different teachings of Parasara (bhava karakas

and special lagnas). I do not really consider it as my creation but as

understanding Parasara's teachings only.

 

 

 

[sanjay

Rath:] Special Lagna are derived on the principle of circular motion and the

Sun as the Lagna in the first place is derived from the Sun.

 

What

you have done is to treat every planet like the Sun which is wrong.

The

normal procedure for looking at the karaka bhava is Me10 = 10th

house from Mercury; Ve7 is 7th house from Venus and so on...in the

rasi and varga charts.

Narasimha,

this is your creation and NOT taught in BPHS. Please do not twist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hare Rama Krishna

Dear

Rajarshi,

Narasimha

has also in the past two years made many statements in bad taste which were

uninformed, pre-conceived and were personal attacks. They were inserted in

between long diatribes. No one said anything to him in the spirit of

discussion. So by the principle of democracy, you cannot say anything to others

as well. Secondly, when you do you make personal attacks and uninformed

presumptions, you should expect some reactions from some people. Personally, I

feel very happy that Narasimha is speaking his thoughts freely and openly. That

is very importnat, rather than letting it fester inside.   

Best

Regards,

Sarbani

Rath

Homepage:

http://sarbani.com

Sagittarius

Publications: http://sagittariuspublications.com

Sohamsa:

http://sohamsa.com

Sri

Jagannath Centre: http://.org

 

 

 

 

sohamsa

[sohamsa ] On Behalf Of rajarshi nandy

03 March 2009 11:15

sohamsa

RE: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re:

Resolving Points)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Namaste

 

 

 

 

 

The reason I had send that mail in this thread is because

I felt Michal's reply was in extremely bad taste to say the least. There is

no value addition on the issue being discussed and on the other hand he

choses to indulge in personal attacks which should not be encouraged under

any circumstance.

 

 

 

 

 

I personally am not a great jyotishi, but I know a thing

or two about debates/discussion since I spend a consireable amount of my time

on debating with various kinds of people various issues under the sun. A good

discussion follows one inviolable rule. It is called AINP. Attack the Idea

NOT the Person! Everyone has the basic fundamental right to agree or disagree

with anyone in DEMOCRATIC and CIVIL manner. But personal attacks are not the

way. Infact, Michals mail just a proved a few point for a third party

observer like me.

 

 

 

 

 

a) He has nothing positive to contribute to this thread.

No value add

 

 

 

 

 

b) He is out of arguments

 

 

 

 

 

c) He is frustated because of point (b)

 

 

 

 

 

d) He choses to vent his frustation by attacking the

person rather than the idea.

 

 

 

 

 

This is the typical behaviour of a losing party in an

argument.

 

 

 

 

 

Compare this (Michal's mail) to the replies given by

Sri Sanjay Rath. A world of difference in the approach.There is something one

can learn from just reading this exchange of mails between Narasimhaji and

Sanjayji if one choses to have an open mind.

 

 

 

 

 

And *I feel*, the people who moderate this forum should

set clear guidelines against any sort of personal attacks on anyone. Debate

an idea, rip it apart if you can, but never attack the person who is giving

the idea. But sadly, I do not see any of the senior jyotishi's in here so

much as even warning Michal against this kind of behaviour.

 

 

 

 

 

-Regards

 

 

Rajarshi

 

 

 

The

upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava -

Shiva Sutra

 

 

 

 

--- On Mon, 2/3/09, Sarbani Rath <sarbani

wrote:

Sarbani Rath

<sarbani

RE: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving

Points)

sohamsa

Monday, 2 March, 2009, 5:12 PM

 

 

 

 

 

Hare Rama Krishna

 

Dear Rajarshi,

 

Don’t get caught in the quagmire of empty conversations.

A doctor needs to know about all the medicines in order to prescribe the

appropriate one to his patients. It does not mean that he prescribes all of

them or that he eats all of them himself. Nevertheless, he needs to study the

science. Similarly astrologers need to become adept in the science of mantras

and remedies, even to prescribe that one correct mantra as well as to

understand the subject thoroughly. Whether the client is practising the

mantra or not in good faith depends on his karmas. To make accusations of

questionable sources and corruption of vedangas, without having a notion or a

even a single clue about what that tradtion is prescribing and talking about

regarding mantras is laughable. A lot of bellicose and uninformed noise is

made on the lists by troubled souls. Naturally such statements shall evoke

strong responses.

 

Best Regards,

 

Sarbani Rath

 

Homepage: http://sarbani. com

Sagittarius Publications: http://sagittariusp

ublications. com

Sohamsa: http://sohamsa. com

Sri Jagannath Centre: http:// .org

 

 

 

sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa@

. com] On Behalf Of rajarshi nandy

02 March 2009 10:27

sohamsa@ .com

Re: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re:

Resolving Points)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Michal

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can you show us ONE jyotish, ANYONE, who has NEVER made a wrong

prediction?

 

 

 

 

 

-Regards

 

 

Rajarshi

 

 

 

The

upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra

 

 

 

 

--- On Mon, 2/3/09, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal >

wrote:

Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal >

Re: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving

Points)

sohamsa@ .com

Monday, 2 March, 2009, 4:57 AM

 

 

 

 

 

Hare Rama Krsna ||

 

Dear Narasimhaaaaaaaaa,

 

This fixing of attitude is faaaaaaaaaaaar more important than picking the

right mantra, right weekday, right tithi etc (that too based on unreliable

knowledge coming from questionable sources!).

 

I agree: fixing of attitude is needed. 'Questionable sources'?

Lets not lose our manners now.

 

Jyotish is the study of time. Right weekday, right tithi etc. is

important for Jyotish. Why deny or try to downplay this and promote

your own preaching? Do you feel that your skills and proficiency in

the subject are lacking so you attack the subject instead of addressing

your own shortcomings? You made a bold prediction about the US

Presidential election, when it was totally wrong you blamed the birth data

despite explicitly stating that you had verified the times

satisfactorily. We are all here to learn. But don't start a

vendetta against the vedanga.

 

Here is a nice quote about psychological projection:

 

" Psychological projection is a defense mechanism in which one

attributes one's own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts and/or emotions to

others. It occurs when a person's own unacceptable or threatening

feelings are repressed and then attributed to someone else.

" An example of such simple behavior would be: blame for failure,

making an excuse for your own faults by projecting the cause of said

failure onto someone else, hence blaming them and not accepting the reality

of the failure.

" Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted

subconscious impulses or desires without letting the conscious mind

recognize them " .

 

The source? The mystical and occult wikipaedia!

 

Warm regards,

Michal

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net>

; vedic astrology@ .

com; ; sohamsa@ .com

Monday, 2 March, 2009 11:12:45 AM

Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re:

Resolving Points)

 

 

 



 

 

 

Dear Sanjay,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

> Mantra Shastra is a very detailed

work and includes mantra dosha etc.

 

 

 

> It is very scientific and

accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this.

 

 

 

 

 

Some may be fascinated by the texture,

color and volume of the chaff and miss the grain.

 

 

 

 

 

Most people who talk about mantra

shastra focus on the chaff and not on the grain.

 

 

 

 

 

> You talk of begging God vs

commanding God? Now where did that come from?

 

 

> How is it related to what is

under discussion. Perhaps I have missed many

 

 

> mails and am not able to get the

context. Trying to command God is

 

 

> *BLACK MAGIC* and this is

detestable to say the least. The attitude should

 

 

> always be that of a beggar in

front of God. If anyone has said otherwise, I

 

 

> also disagee with him/her.

 

 

 

 

 

I mentioned the above with respect to

the need of thousands of mantras and technicalities. If one does not want

to command god and wants to be a beggar who will take whatever is given,

there is no need for thousands of mantras and all the umpteen technicalities. These

thousands of mantras and umpteen technicalities are for commanding

thousands of different results from god. That is why I talked of

commanding vs begging. However, this commanding works slightly differently

than one may imagine. I will elaborate.

 

 

 

 

 

Also, commanding god is NOT black

magic. Commanding low level beings is black magic, which can be

accomplished even by a person not quite elevated spiritually and suffering

from a heavy ego. However, commanding higher beings such as gods is

possible only for a spiritually elevated person with no or extremely

small ego. This commanding that I am referring to is not an

egoistic achievement. In fact, an egoist cannot achieve it. Only a person

succeeding in completely effacing individual ego can achieve this commanding!

I will repeat something from the previous mail to clarify:

 

 

 

 

 

 

The universe has many lokas (planes of

consciousness) , many beings and many objects. There are infinite karmic

interactions possible between them. Accordingly, there are infinite possible

mantras. When one is able to perfectly control the mind and *fill it*

with a mantra (i.e. no thoughts but the mantra reverberating in the mind

constantly), then one experiences the mantra. This perfect

absorption of self-awareness in the mantra then causes internal

changes by the flow of energy internally in specific ways (specific to the

mantra) and that causes corresponding external changes in the universe and

corresponding karmic interactions between various objects.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Each set of " karmic interactions

between various objects " is a " result " . Various mantras are

for various " results " . One may term merging self-awareness in a

mantra fully and getting a specific result from it as " commanding a

result " from god. Whether you like the term or not, it is essentially

that.

 

 

 

 

 

*

* *

 

 

 

 

 

But the bottomline is this: Only a

highly purified sadhaka of very low ego can command specific results from

god (not for selfishness or even ego satisfaction, but acting as an

unattached instrument of Nature fulfilling one's dharma set by

Nature). Various mantras and technicalities of mantra shastra taught by

rishis are meant for such sadhakas.

 

 

 

 

 

Those are hardly of use to so many

people out there with dense egos seeking specific selfish results. They

cannot command specific results from god (because of their heavy attachment

to the result, which is in turn due to their own attachment to a limited

ego), even if they use all the techniques of mantra shastra and all the

associated rules of astrology. Instead of wasting their time with these

technicalities, they will be better off learning to be good beggars at

God's door.

 

 

 

 

 

Just pick any prasiddha mantra or a

mantra you feel attracted to, without worrying about so many

technicalities, and learn to be humble and surrender to the Lord. Patiently

wait for him to give you what you want. Like a beggar, take whatever and

whenever he gives.

 

 

 

 

 

Keep praying every day or every second

when you are able to. Even when you are not praying, remember him in all of

your actions. When you enjoy something in the material world, tell yourself

that it is his and that he gave it to you. If you remember him all the

time, slowly the dirt in your mind will start to get cleaned. This fixing

of attitude is faaaaaaaaaaaar more important than picking the right mantra,

right weekday, right tithi etc (that too based on unreliable knowledge

coming from questionable sources!).

 

 

 

 

 

*

* *

 

 

 

 

 

There may be a mountain with thousands

of paths (mantra) for climbing it. Each path may lead to a different spot

(different experience) on the top and show a different scenery (result).

Expert advisors (astrologers) may tell you to use a specific path (mantra)

to see a specific scenery (result). But such advice is useless to a

handicapped person without legs (a selfish person with dense ego). It is

relevant only to person with legs and one who is strong and sturdy, who can

successfully climb the mountain (a reasonably detached person with very

little ego).

 

 

 

 

 

Even when you encounter a person who

has legs and can actually climb the mountain, the stress should be on how

to climb the mountain and traverse the long path, rather than which path to

take. The astrologers who are bogged down by all the technicalities and

people who take customized mantra advice from astrologers and think that

they will get a result quickly by doing that 'powerful' mantra are missing

the basic point. The power of a powerful mantra is with respect to the

experience and result obtained *after* one succeeds with the

mantra. A partcicularly powerful mantra is akin to a path leading to a

point atop the mountain where the view shows a particularly beautiful

scenery. But the bottomline is that you do have to survive the climb along

the long path.

 

 

 

 

 

We need to emphasize the attitude and

approach needed for the long climb, rather than emphasizing the choice of

the path based on horoscope. It is worth noting that so many great

spiritual teachers who came in the last century or two did not emphasize

picking the right mantra based on horoscope etc. Instead, they emphasized

having the correct attitude - surrender, submission, devotion, patience,

persistence, discipline, humility etc!!!! *That* is a lot

more important and useful than trying to be oversmart with the choice of

mantra, day etc and impress god.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*

* *

 

 

 

 

 

 

> when should the worship of a

graha be done? Let us say someone

 

 

> wishes to worship Mars (Mangala

graha). When do you think this

 

 

> worship should be done?

 

 

 

You can do anyday. Parasara does not

mention any day for doing homam to a graha.

 

 

 

 

 

In fact, if one wants, one can do a

homam or worship to Mars (or any planet) every day. It is even

better that way.

 

 

 

 

 

If an astrologer suggests doing it on

a Tuesday, it is fine. But saying that doing it on so and so day will bring

serious dangers because Mars is an enemy of so and so planet would be

stretching things.

 

 

 

 

 

> [sanjay Rath:] Where do you think

Veda Vyasa (Krishna dvaipaayana) got his

 

 

> knowledge and those who wrote it

as scribes for him, where did they get it from?

 

 

 

From Self - from within. That

is the source of all knowledge. A sadguru need not specifically teach

thousand things, but needs to open the door inside.

 

 

 

 

 

*

* *

 

 

 

 

 

> OK, just spell it out. What is

the reason for Gandanta being in 0 deg,

 

 

> 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac

if it is not a junction between agni

 

 

> and jala...I want to her your

words if you have any.

 

 

 

 

 

Parasara's definition of gandanta is

restricted to two neighboring areas in a contiguous space having a

predominance of fire and water elements. " I see fire and I see water.

So there is gandanta " is a wrong approach. One can then call Venus, a

watery planet, being in a fiery sign or Mars, a fiery planet, being in a

watery sign as gandanta. Gandanta requires a *transition* in a contiguous

space.

 

 

 

 

 

In your example of upapada lord's

tithi, there is no contiguous space where there is a water-fire transition.

 

 

 

 

 

> Now somewhere you talked of

wasting time!!! Look what you are doing.

 

 

> You were asked to work on

Parashara by your Spiritual Master, and

 

 

> are you doing that? Me10, Ve7,

Ve6...good research but is that from

 

 

> Parashara?

 

 

 

Well, Me10, Ve7 etc theory is based on

marrying two different teachings of Parasara (bhava karakas and special

lagnas). I do not really consider it as my creation but as understanding

Parasara's teachings only.

 

 

 

 

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana

Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

---------

 

 

 

sohamsa@

..com, " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath wrote:

>

> om paramesthi gurave namah

>

> Dear Narasimha,

>

> I read this mail twice. OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for

Gandanta being in 0 deg, 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a

junction between agni and jala...I want to her your words if you have any.

You keep saying Parasara says so and yet there is nothing forthcoming.

>

> The rashi is associated with the Aditya as the rashi come into

existence because of the Sun, which is the agni tattva. Vara is also agni

tattva among the panchanga of Jyotisha. That is why Vaara is related to

rashi. Karma has been advised in the vaara of the lords of the rashi or the

hora of the lords of the rashi related to a bhaava and for this reason,

fasting and other such karma related to rashi are also based on this. [see

Prashna Marga for details].

>

> Moon is the significator of the Aroodha. It is the *emotional content*

related to the maya manifestation of everything in life. Suffering is

caused as we do not fathom the karma associated that resulted in suffering

and fasting is a a means of self punishment and correction related to the

raashi where the aroodha is. Just as Agni has the purity to burn the root

of sin, fasting on vaara related to the UL is surely going to cleanse the

sins associated with the suffering in it. While this may not give a 100%

satisfaction as the *moon* content has not been addressed, at least the

initiation of the aroodha occurs and people find their partners, get

married and get along with life. Proof lies in the pudding and with so many

cases where people have fasted on UL days and have got result, we have

found faith in these teachings reinforced. Why fast? Fasting on vaara is a

means to correcting the flaw associated with the raashi. Raashi is a

quantity and hence it is related to the material effects of the bhava and

that is what people are looking for when they come to th astrologer. You

have done well to recall my teachings in this – remember what I taught

– Men should worship a female deity and women shold worship a male deity

for the UL fasting. I wonder if they really follow this.

>

> Why not give fasting at night instead of day? Sun is always good for

the Upapada (Jaimini etc) and that is why we have limited this to day

fasting and not night fasting as well or 24 hour fast. This is my

interpolation. [ satisfied J ] Elders would have given long periods of fast

starting from the vaara, like keeping 21 days fast for the birth of child!

You think I should be doing that! You think anyone will lsiten. Try it

yourself before asking me to advise those hard penance kind of fasts.

>

> Who says the Moon has nothing to do with the arudha. It is the

sustainer. Now people to an astrologer when they are looking for getting

married and hardly anyone comes these days asking for prolonging marriage.

Either they want to get into one or get out of one and into

another...astrologe rs these days are relegated to helping people make

these transitions painless and fast. Of course some have come and I have

not failed them. I have a ready shloka for this – start from Taurus in

Hamsa gati:

>

> Gouri, Kaali, Uma, Bhadraa, Durga, Kanti, Saraswati

>

> Mangalaa, Vaishnavi, Lakshmi, Shivaa, Naraayani

>

> See I have them ready for the 12 signs in Hamsa Gati from the mool

trikona of Moon in hamsa gati

>

> Mantra Shastra is a very detailed work and includes mantra dosha etc.

It is very scientific and accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this.

>

> You talk of begging God vs commanding God? Now where did that come

from? How is it related to what is under discussion. Perhaps I have missed

many mails and am not able to get the context. Trying to command God is

*BLACK MAGIC* and this is detestable to say the least. The attitude should

always be that of a beggar in front of God. If anyone has said otherwise, I

also disagee with him/her.

>

> Prasiddha mantras always give result, even without initiation and who

knows how ready a person is for initation. So I prefer sticking to

prasiddha mantras with people who do not have initiations. This is there in

VRA also.

>

> I have some questions where I have doubts about what you say. It is

below your mail.

>

> With Warm Regards

>

> Sanjay Rath

>

> http://srath. com http://sohamsa. com http:// .org

>

> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India

>

> sohamsa@

..com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of Narasimha P.V.R.

Rao

> 15 February 2009 09:34

> sohamsa@

..com; Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

> Cc: vedic astrology@

. com;

> On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving

Points)

>

>  > Statement 1 is an arrogance that the entire Jyotisha shastra

is bogus

>

> > and has no relevance as the remedial measures prescribed by

>

> > Parasara and others to be done on specific days are irrlevant and

>

> > not of much consequence.

>

> First of all, Parasara did *not* prescribe fasting on specific

weekdays or tithis based on any arudhas or houses in a chart.

>

> For doshas in birth chart or to get relief from planetary afflictions

or to get the blessings of planets, he suggested various *homas* (fire rituals)

and described how to perform them. His section on remedial measures is full

of various homas. I am not dismissing those remedies taught by Parasara

himself and I am in fact slowly preparing manuals on them so that anybody

can do them by themselves.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] what about the Puranas? Have you gone through the

Navagraha mantras given in the Garuda Purana and other puranic literature?

>

> Parasara did *not* specify the weekday or tithi for most of these

homas (e.g. planetary homas). Only for homas for specific birth doshas

(e.g. Amavasya dosha or Moola dosha), he fixed the tithi or nakshatra based

on the dosha and the deity. But the days are not based on any house or

arudha in the chart.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] If Amavasya dosha is to be performed on Amavasya, when

should the worship of a graha be done? Let us say someone wishes to worship

Mars (Mangala graha). When do you think this worship should be done?

>

> Thus, the principles I am questioning are *not* from Parasara.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] Where do you think Veda Vyasa (Krishna dvaipaayana) got

his knowledge and those who wrote it as scribes for him, where did they get

it from?

>

> Second, I said what I said in a *context*. People are mentioning

complicated principles that are not found in classics or works of rishis

and scaring people that performing austerities such as fasting on certain

days cause " danger to spouse " or " serious doshas " or

" insult to Vishnu " , based on horoscope. I find these principles

illogical and based on hasty thinking. There may be a little difference

between doing an austerity on different days, but my point is that it is

smaller compared to the difference between doing and not doing at all and

that doing it on a " wrong day " does not cause danger as being

suggested.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I am sorry. I missed the context and just saw some

mails that were forwarded to me amidst my writing. But them its always a

pleasure to talk to you as in that many many have benefitted, and that

includes us as well.

>

> Third, our shastras primarily talk about worshipping various deities

on various days, based on the energy of the *deity*. For worshipping a

certain deity, certain tithi or weekday or nakshatra is better than others.

This is based on the deity and irrespective of the person worshipping. Let

me give an analogy. If a rich man comes out with more money to give to

beggars on a specific day, a beggar is better off going and begging on that

day. Schedule and mood of the giver is more important.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] That’s not right...at least people who read this will

think. Let’s say Shiva worship on Mondays. Shiva is the pratyadhi devata

of the Sun and is not worshipped on Sundays but on Mondays. NOTE – a day

after Sunday! Similarly Narayana is the pratyadhi devata of Mercury and is

worshipped on Thursdays instead of Wednesdays. NOTE – again a day after!

So what happened to the energy equation? J

>

> Choosing the day of a remedy based on the deity is more important and

the variations based on individual horoscope are less important. I am not

saying there are no horoscopic variations. But they are smaller and, more

importantly, I question if they are actually well-understood by astrologers

today to apply *reliably*. I question over-emphasizing and over-selling

unreliable principles of questionable origin and scaring people on that

basis.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] To this I can agree as many have not understood even

the basics of Sanatana dharma! Some behave as if there is a battle going on

between Shiva and Vishnu – it’s hilarious to see how these are just

attempts to convert Hinduism into a religion they have left rather than

trying to learn what Hinduism means. Being newly converted there is a

bellicose patriotism in them to prove their faith to the *new god* they

have found and every other God must be the devil in disguise!! It will take

years for many to learn that there is no devil. It’s a figment of their

imagination and whatever is devilish is the dark side of mankind himself.

>

> *

* *

>

> > Statement 2 is an arrogance that the entire mantra shastra is

useless

>

> > and the Rishi’s were wasting time in giving so many

mantras for

>

> > the same devata, like say thousands of mantras for Vishnu or

Hanuman

>

> > when any one mantra would suffice. OR it is like saying that we

can

>

> > take paracetamol and pray that cancer is cured. I think I may

have to

>

> > write a book on Mantra Shastra to validate the teachings of the

vedic

>

> > seers.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I got your point here. It’s a good point.

>

> Now somewhere you talked of wasting time!!! Look what you are doing.

You were asked to work on Parashara by your Spiritual Master, and are you

doing that? Me10, Ve7, Ve6...good research but is that from Parashara?

>

> I also know what argument you will give me - J You will say I am

already working on that and have some spare time to do this as well...to

which I will have nothing to say.

>

 

 

 

 

-

 

 

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

 

 

 

sohamsa@ .com

; Narasimha

P.V.R. Rao

 

 

Cc: vedic astrology@

. com ; @

. com

 

 

Saturday, February 14, 2009 11:03 PM

 

 

On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving

Points)

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Sanjay,

 

 

 

 

 

> Since you do not have any real

definition of Gandanta, I am dropping that

 

 

 

 

 

I do have a definition of gandanta,

which is Parasara's definition in BPHS.

 

 

 

 

 

Since some of you are extrapolating it

based on the fire embodied in UL and water embodied in tithis, the onus is

on you to outline and justify your definition. I got into this thread

because statements were made that fasting on particular weekdays or tithis

in a chart can cause " insult to Vishnu " , " serious

doshas " and " danger to spouse " , based on these far-fetched

extrapolations of gandanta.

 

 

 

 

 

> Which is perfectly in line with

everything I have learnt.

 

 

 

 

 

Well, you once taught that houses

represent Sun/Shiva/truth and arudhas represent Moon/Gouri/percepti on.

That was meaningful. Now, you associated UL, an arudha, with Sun and fire

and 12th, a house, with Gouri and water. I question whether the new theory

on fasting is really in line with everything you have learnt (and taught).

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, I specifically asked for a

clarification on whether this was based on your own thinking or from

classics/parampara (see quoted mail below for the full context). Like so

many times with similar questions I asked privately and recently publicly,

you did not respond.

 

 

 

 

 

*

* *

 

 

 

 

 

> Statement 1 is an arrogance that

the entire Jyotisha shastra is bogus

 

 

> and has no relevance as the

remedial measures prescribed by

 

 

> Parasara and others to be done on

specific days are irrlevant and

 

 

> not of much consequence.

 

 

 

 

 

First of all, Parasara did *not*

prescribe fasting on specific weekdays or tithis based on any arudhas or

houses in a chart.

 

 

 

 

 

For doshas in birth chart or to get

relief from planetary afflictions or to get the blessings of planets, he

suggested various *homas* (fire rituals) and described how to

perform them. His section on remedial measures is full of various homas. I

am not dismissing those remedies taught by Parasara himself and I am in

fact slowly preparing manuals on them so that anybody can do them by

themselves.

 

 

 

 

 

Parasara did *not* specify

the weekday or tithi for most of these homas (e.g. planetary homas). Only

for homas for specific birth doshas (e.g. Amavasya dosha or Moola dosha),

he fixed the tithi or nakshatra based on the dosha and the deity. But the

days are not based on any house or arudha in the chart.

 

 

 

 

 

Thus, the principles I am questioning

are *not* from Parasara.

 

 

 

 

 

Second, I said what I said in a *context*.

People are mentioning complicated principles that are not found in classics

or works of rishis and scaring people that performing austerities such as

fasting on certain days cause " danger to spouse " or " serious

doshas " or " insult to Vishnu " , based on horoscope. I find

these principles illogical and based on hasty thinking. There may be a

little difference between doing an austerity on different days, but my

point is that it is smaller compared to the difference between doing and

not doing at all and that doing it on a " wrong day " does not

cause danger as being suggested.

 

 

 

 

 

Third, our shastras primarily talk

about worshipping various deities on various days, based on the energy of

the *deity*. For worshipping a certain deity, certain tithi or

weekday or nakshatra is better than others. This is based on the deity and

irrespective of the person worshipping. Let me give an analogy. If a rich

man comes out with more money to give to beggars on a specific day, a beggar

is better off going and begging on that day. Schedule and mood of the giver

is more important.

 

 

 

 

 

Choosing the day of a remedy based on

the deity is more important and the variations based on individual

horoscope are less important. I am not saying there are no horoscopic

variations. But they are smaller and, more importantly, I question if

they are actually well-understood by astrologers today to apply *reliably*.

I question over-emphasizing and over-selling unreliable principles of

questionable origin and scaring people on that basis.

 

 

 

 

 

*

* *

 

 

 

 

 

> Statement 2 is an arrogance that

the entire mantra shastra is useless

 

 

> and the Rishi’s were wasting

time in giving so many mantras for

 

 

> the same devata, like say

thousands of mantras for Vishnu or Hanuman

 

 

> when any one mantra would

suffice. OR it is like saying that we can

 

 

> take paracetamol and pray that

cancer is cured. I think I may have to

 

 

> write a book on Mantra Shastra to

validate the teachings of the vedic

 

 

> seers.

 

 

 

 

 

I did not say it is " useless " .

Instead, I suggest that our ability to use it is limited and we should take

our limitations into consideration.

 

 

 

 

 

The universe has many lokas (planes of

consciousness) , many beings and many objects. There are infinite karmic

interactions possible between them. Accordingly, there are infinite

possible mantras. When one is able to perfectly control the mind and *fill

it* with a mantra (i.e. no thoughts but the mantra reverberating in

the mind constantly), then one experiences the mantra. This perfect

absorption of self-awareness in the mantra then causes internal

changes by the flow of energy internally in specific ways (specific to the

mantra) and that causes corresponding external changes in the universe and

corresponding karmic interactions between various objects.

 

 

 

 

 

However, this variety of mantras,

experiences and results is irrelevant to one who does not have such perfect

control over the mind to absorb the mind fully in a mantra. It is relevant

only to a seer whose self-awareness is quite evolved and hence control over

mind impeccable. Such seers are extremely extremely rare today. Most people

are unable to experience any mantra and mantras do not work for them

as they are supposed to.

 

 

 

 

 

*

* *

 

 

 

 

 

Just repeating a combination of sounds

does not guarantee anything. Some people may think that certain results

come when they repeat a mantra certain number of times. That is an

incorrect notion. A mantra may work for one person quickly and another may

spend the whole life chanting it and nothing may happen. Absorption of the

entire mind into a mantra is needed for a mantra to really work and it is

much more difficult than one may think.

 

 

 

 

 

*

* *

 

 

 

 

 

A highly learned scholar in the court

of a king may be able to command the king and get whatever he wants from

king. An incapable one is better off begging the king, rather than trying

to command (and failing for sure).

 

 

 

 

 

Similarly, most people are better off

begging god for what they want rather than trying to use the right mantra

to command what they want. A beggar does not need a huge vocabulary or

great scholarship or knowledge. Feeling of humility

and helplessness, surrender, patience and persistence are what help a

beggar succeed. A beggar needs the right attitude rather than knowledge.

In this age and time, best bet for most people is to learn to be a good

beggar at god's door.

 

 

 

 

 

What people today need for

material and spiritual progress through remedial measures is a better

attitude in begging god rather than a better choice of tools such as

mantras and other specifics such as weekday, tithi etc to command a

specific result from god.

 

 

 

 

 

It is worth noting that so many great

spiritual teachers who came in the last century or two did not emphasize

picking the right mantra based on horoscope etc. Instead, they emphasized

having the correct attitude - surrender, submission, devotion, patience,

persistence, discipline, humility etc. *That* is a lot more

important and useful than trying to be oversmart with the choice of mantra,

day etc and impress god.

 

 

 

 

 

*

* *

 

 

 

 

 

One more thing. We have many mantras

given by rishis, but the guidelines from rishis like Parasara on how

to pick a mantra based on the horoscope are very limited. Astrologers today

do not operate solely based on them. They use all kinds of other rules

coming from various traditions. They are not free from corruption and

imperfection. Most scriptures associate various mantras with various

results, irrespective of horoscope. For example, irrespective of who is the

6th lord and 8th lord and lord of A6 and A8, Rina Vimochaka Angaraka mantra

is good for debt control. And so on. Linking of horoscope is overplayed by

today's astrologers, way beyond the scope of Parasara's guidelines.

 

 

 

 

 

If one has a sadguru, I recommend

following the word of sadguru rather than that of an astrology

theoretician.

 

 

 

 

 

If not, there is no foolproof way to

know the right path. Pick any path (given by an astrologer or one that you

feel attracted to) instead of wasting time and then keep working on your

attitude. The latter is the key. As I said earlier, learn to be a humble

beggar at god's door. Choice of Mantra is secondary and attitude is

primary. If you succeed in being a really humble beggar, you stand a better

chance of success than great scholars.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Any prasiddha mantra (e.g.

ashtakshari, panchakshari, dwadasakshari, navakshari, vishnu sahasranaam,

rudram, hare krishna maha mantra, chandipath, ganapati atharva seersham,

mrityunjaya mantra etc) can help one make progress if one develops the

right attitude. Without the right attitude, even an impeaccably picked

mantra will do nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*

* *

 

 

 

 

 

I hope this sufficiently clarifies my

stand. I discuss these matters related to spiritual sadhana more on the

. Some writings are sampled at http://www.vedicast

rologer.org/ homam/writings. htm.

 

 

 

 

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana

Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

------------ --------- --------- ---------

--------- --------- ---------

 

 

 

om paramesthi gurave namah

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Narasimha,

 

 

 

 

 

Since you do not have any real

definition of Gandanta, I am dropping that and continue with my belief of

the junction between Agni and Jala rasi as the case of gandanta and the

loka junctions. Which is perfectly in line with everything I have learnt.

 

 

 

 

 

Two statements you have made

contradict standard texts on Jyotish and Mantra Shastra. Please correct me

if I am not understanding you well out here -

 

 

 

 

 

1. Statement 1: *fasting on any

day or any tithi* is good so long as the sankalpa has been made for the

devata you intend to pray to. Results maybe a bit delayed but will be

there.

2. Statement 2: *reciting any prayer* will give the desired effects

for any ailment we wish to remedy

 

 

 

 

 

Is this what you intended to say or

did I get this wrong?

 

 

 

 

 

Statement 1 is an arrogance that the

entire Jyotisha shastra is bogus and has no relevance as the remedial

measures prescribed by Parasara and others to be done on specific days are

irrlevant and not of much consequence. This sounds like another astrologer

I had known some time back whose statements like this coerced me to write

Vedic Remedies in Astrology so that people are not misled but such pretexts

to knowledge.

 

 

 

 

 

Statement 2 is an arrogance that the

entire mantra shastra is useless and the Rishi’s were wasting time in

giving so many mantras for the same devata, like say thousands of mantras

for Vishnu or Hanuman when any one mantra would suffice. OR it is like

saying that we can take paracetamol and pray that cancer is cured. I think

I may have to write a book on Mantra Shastra to validate the teachings of

the vedic seers.

 

 

 

 

 

I think there is something wrong in

the way you are saying what you want to say. Please rethink and correct

your statements for the sake of good record in this list.

 

 

 

 

 

With Warm Regards

 

 

Sanjay Rath

 

 

http://srath. com http://sohamsa. com http:// .org

 

 

15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi,

110060, India

 

 

 

 

 

-

 

 

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

 

 

sohamsa@ .com

 

 

 

Sunday, February 08, 2009 12:03 PM

 

 

Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING

 

 

 

 

 

Namaste Sanjay and friends,

 

 

 

 

 

My answers are in red and

prefixed with " [Narasimha] " .

 

 

 

 

 

<<<<<<

Begin quote <<<<<<

 

 

> > >> tithi.

The basic point is that Upapada is a rashi and carries energy

> > >> of Vara or day. If you fast on the day ruled by tithi of

the 2nd

> > >> lord, you are bringing the jala energy to vara, and

gandanta may

> > >> occur, and spouse may come into a danger. So, what is

the way out.

>

> Why does a rashi carry the energy of vaara only and not that of the

tithi???? Why does rashi represent vaara or fire?

>

> [sanjay Rath:] Because Raashi were created by Surya and for doing so

Surya took 12 forms called the Dvadasa Aditya...Narasimha you ask this??

What is happening?

 

 

>

> After all, Rudra rules over the element of fire and Gouri rules over

the element of water and one worships Gouri at the time of marriage.

Moreover, Venus (water) is the karaka for marriage. So one could even say

that UL/marriage is represented by water element and fasting on UL lord's

tithi brings the element of water (prosperity and well-being) to one's

marriage (UL)? One could even say that fasting on the weekday of UL lord

should be prohibited as it brings the fire element represented by weekday

to the water of UL and causes " gandanta " !

>

> [sanjay Rath:] UL is the Maya and is associated with the Raashi

Narasimha. It is the 12L which is the creator of the UL...just as the

mother Gouri creates everything through the shakti of the graha, all the

arudha are created by her due to the lordships of the planets. So fasting

on the tithi lorded by the 12th lord will be a *more correct* answer.

 

 

>>>>>>

End quote >>>>>>

 

 

 

 

 

[Narasimha] We always say

that houses (truth) are represented by Sun (aatman) and arudha padas (maya)

by Moon (mind).

 

 

 

 

 

Thus, 12th house is the

actual creator and UL is the apparent creator in the field of maya. Houses

(truth) should actually be associated with Sun (aatman) and Shiva (and not

Gouri), while arudha padas (perception) should actually be associated with

Moon (mind) and Gouri. After all, that is what we do in the tripod method in

dasa judgment.

 

 

 

 

 

Thus, it is actually more

logical to say that 12th house and 12th lord imbibe the agni tattva of Sun

and UL and UL lord imbibe the jala tattva of Moon.

 

 

 

 

 

Is the above " *more

correct* answer " based on your own thinking or is it from a classic or

from tradition?

 

 

 

 

 

<<<<<<

Begin quote <<<<<<

 

 

 

> The mantra one meditates with at the

end of a day's fasting is far more effective than at other times. The

conservation of energy otherwise spent on digestion or speech will enable

far more effective mantra meditation. So fast or keep mouna and then

meditate with a mantra, to maximize the effect of the mantra.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I do not agree with this. Correct eating is the best

blessing for good mantra practise. On days when one fasts the mind is troubled

by hunger causing the stomach to burn and churn and this disturbs mantra

japa. Correct eating (alpa aahaara) is many many times better than complete

fasting.

 

 

>>>>>>

End quote >>>>>>

 

 

 

 

 

[Narasimha] Well, if one

cannot fast, then one is destined to expend some energy on digestion after

all and not focus all energy on the mantra. But the bottomline is that

shastras say that one should meditate either without or with very little

food (niraahaaro mitaahaaro). In any case, I hope we agree that meditation

sessions after heavy eating are heavily restrained in effectiveness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

<<<<<<

Begin quote <<<<<<

 

 

> Seriously, however,

this kind of stretching of gandanta concepts is quite illogical.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] It is not stretching ... it is the very definition of

gandanta – the interface between fire and water. Put a burning match in a

glass of water, the fire dies...There are other Ganda’s in the chart but

they are not anta (ends). Take Chitra ganda between Kanya and Tula.

 

 

>>>>>>

End quote >>>>>>

 

 

 

 

 

[Narasimha] Putting a

burning match in a glass of water does indeed kill fire. But the

question is of contact. If I am thinking of fire in my mind while standing

in water, it does not kill the fire. There is no contact.

 

 

 

 

 

My point is that the

examples given have no real identifiable contact between water and fire.

 

 

 

 

 

One can be creative and come

up with a lot of theories. For example, one can say that Moon and Venus are

jala tattva and all rasis show agni tattva (then why are some rasis marked

as agni rasis and some as water rasis etc) and hence the sign occupied by

Moon and Venus cause contact between water and fire. Then one can say

fasting on the weekdays of the dispositors of Moon and Venus causes gandanta

and serious danger.

 

 

 

 

 

It is not enough to show

some fire and some water. See what counts as contact. Otherwise, one will

engage in illogical extrapolations.

 

 

 

 

 

<<<<<<

Begin quote <<<<<<

 

 

 

 

> Three years back you

said you are leaving jyotish....then again you told me two years back and

again recently that you are leaving jyotish. Now it is getting very evident

that *jyotish is leaving

you*. The knowledge of

Jyotish is PERFECT – individuals embody it in different levels of their

understanding and intelligence.

 

 

>>>>>>

End quote >>>>>>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Narasimha] Nothing is

permanent. What is one's cannot be taken away. And one cannot cling on to

what is not one's. Some rejoice when it seems like something comes and cry

when it seems like something leaves. Some impassionately observe as things

seem to come and go and do what they see as their dharma with the things

they seem to have.

 

 

 

 

Just a factual correction though

 

: I never said I was leaving

Jyotish. For a few years after my spiritual master entered my life, my

interest in other things went down (though I continued to do other things)

and my focus on spiritual sadhana intensified. So I said that my interest

in Jyotish was very low. However, my guru gave me a task later. He wanted

me to study the teachings of Parasara independently, meditate on

them and share my interpretations with the world. He said I was very

passionate in my Jyotish activities earlier, and he wanted me to do the

same now but dispassionately and without an attachment. He felt that I

still have a contribution to make to Jyotish and wants me to do it as

an unattached karma. His word is everything for me.

 

 

 

 

What I told you recently is not

that I was leaving Jyotish but what I said above.

 

 

 

 

 

However, if your judgment is correct

and if Jyotish is indeed " leaving " me, I am sure my

spiritual guru will realize it sooner or later and change his command to

me.

 

 

 

 

 

<<<<<<

Begin quote <<<<<<

 

 

 

 

> I can categorically

declare one thing with utmost confidence. You pick any weekday or tithi and

take a vow to fast or do mouna vrata (remain silent) on that weekday or

tithi and meditate with a particular mantra (any) at the end of the day.

You can take a vow to keep that practice for a certain duration of time

(say, a few months or years) for a specific purpose. Take a vow and keep

the vrata for the duration. If brahmacharya can be kept for the duration of

the vrata, there is nothing like it!

>

> [sanjay Rath:] This is a fine statement but then you seem to be

saying that the Puranas and other teachings of the seers is of not much

relevance. Of course you are right as it will be spiritually beneficial.

For example, a person wishing to marry should not fast on UL days and should

choose any day (all days are the same) or any tithi (all tithi are the

same) and start fasting and do a mantra (any mantra!!) and then in a few

days, or (maybe) a few months (or maybe) a few years ... or maybe (what you

did not say), a few lifetimes, the marriage will happen! I cannot say you

are wrong, so I agree that what you say is right.

 

 

>>>>>>

End quote >>>>>>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Narasimha] This is a gross

exaggeration.

 

 

 

 

 

Is all that is being taught

and practiced now strictly from " Puranas and other teachings of the

seers " ?

 

 

 

 

 

I did not say all days and tithis are the

same. Of course, there is some difference. But, it is not as big as being

made here.

 

 

 

 

 

To make khoa, whether one uses cow milk or

buffalo milk or milk of a brown cow or a black cow or a Jersey cow or

another cow does make some difference. But it is secondary. To say that

" danger " and " serious doshas " (see the quoted mails for

such claims) can be caused by a wrong choice is wrong. To say that a

wrong choice means khoa will take 100 years to make is also a

gross exaggeration.

 

 

 

 

 

The main thing is that you need milk and

sugar. If one is confused by endless claims of khoa making consultants and

ends up not making khoa at all, that will be sad. In such a case, one can

simply pick some milk or the other, take sugar and start cooking

khoa. It will take an extra half hour, but the job will be done.

 

 

 

 

 

I request Jyotishis to behave responsibly and

humbly and not engage in scare-mongering and say that a speicifc austerity

(fasting on a specific weekday or tithi in a chart) can cause

" danger " and " serious doshas " . No wonder some spiritual

teachers look down upon Jyotish and dismiss it. Such unbalanced attitude

and self-importance from us does not help our cause!

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, Jyotish is helpful, but let us not

oversell it or overplay the importance.. .

 

 

 

 

 

<<<<<<

Begin quote <<<<<<

 

 

 

 

> Gem stones may harm

when used incorrectly. But, austerities like prayers, fasting, mouna vrata

and brahmacharya will NEVER do you any harm. If your body can take fasting,

you can do it on any weekday or tithi without too many calculations.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] Brahmacharya is good for someone planning to have a

baby or one who cannot conceive and this is kept for some period before the

appointed date of nisheka. Brahmacharya is good for marriage?! I think you

are mistaking abstinence from physical union as Brahmacharya. Oh no its so

different.

 

 

>>>>>>

End quote >>>>>>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Narasimha] Of course,

brahmacharya is much more, but also very difficult for most. Even physical

celibacy is a good enough austerity. Physical celibacy over an extended

period of time increases the efficacy of other austerities such as fasting,

mouna vrata, meditation and homam.

 

 

 

 

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana

Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

---------

 

 

 

sohamsa@

..com, " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath wrote:

>

> om paramesthi gurave namah

>

> Dear Narasimha

>

> Just added a few thoughts and questions since we are on the topic of

spirituality, which is not my forte. So I am always seeking to learn.

>

> With Warm Regards

>

> Sanjay Rath

>

> http://srath. com http://sohamsa. com http:// .org

>

> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India

>

> sohamsa@

..com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao

> 06 February 2009 00:48

> sohamsa@

..com

> Cc: @

. com

> Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING

>

> Namaste friends,

>

> I would like to express my reservations on a couple of issues. It is

funny that I should be typing this email on an Ekadashi day, when many

Vaishnavas fast irrespective of their horoscopes.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I write on dvadasi when so many vasihnava also fast and

keep great austerities. J Any difference?

>

> > >> Here is my point and view about the question raised. 2nd

bhava is

> > >> the bhava of Vishnu, sustainer, and if we fast on the

day of UL in

> > >> 2nd house, we bring insult to Vishnu who provides the

food for us.

>

> My dear Zoran, please allow me to express my disagreement.

>

> Austerities can never be seen as an insult to Vishnu. Self-deprivation

of 2nd house matters such as food (fasting) or speech (mouna vrata - vow of

silence) are austerities. Giving up food or speech is not an insult to

Vishnu just as giving up sex (i.e. brahmacharya) is not an insult to

Sukracharya (Venus).

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I though Brahma was very angry that his sons decided

not to have progeny and stayed celibate. So He created others. Why was

Brahma angry when his sons remained celibate? Why should Sukracharya be

angry if someone is celibate? How is it an insult or not an insult to

Sukracharya? You are taking planet signification of Venus for 7H ...and

linking this to creation process...which is wrong Narasimha. Brahma is seen

from lords of dusthana 6, 8 and 12 from lagna or 7th which is....you know

this.There is nothing wrong with the 7th house as it is necessary for

procreation. It is only the link of this with the Brahma graha that causes

it to become a serious shad-ripu. Married people are as eligible for moksha

as unmarried ones and bachelors. It depends on the following of dharma and

ashrama.

>

> Various gods bestow various things on us, some at the gross physical

level and some at the subtle spiritual level. As we overcome our

dependendency on gross things, we make progress at the subtle level.

>

> If one eats food, a good amount of internal fire (and subtle internal

energy associated with it) is used for digesting it and for generating

physical energy from it. If one fasts, that subtle energy is unused and

available for other things. This is a tremendous benefit. As a result, one

can better digest mantras and spiritual food available all around one.

>

> The mantra one meditates with at the end of a day's fasting is far

more effective than at other times. The conservation of energy otherwise

spent on digestion or speech will enable far more effective mantra

meditation. So fast or keep mouna and then meditate with a mantra, to

maximize the effect of the mantra.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I do not agree with this. Correct eating is the best

blessing for good mantra practise. On days when one fasts the mind is

troubled by hunger causing the stomach to burn and churn and this disturbs

mantra japa. Correct eating (alpa aahaara) is many many times better than

complete fasting.

>

> > >> However, to be honest, I have not heard this about 2nd

lord and

> > >> tithi. The basic point is that Upapada is a rashi and

carries energy

> > >> of Vara or day. If you fast on the day ruled by tithi of

the 2nd

> > >> lord, you are bringing the jala energy to vara, and

gandanta may

> > >> occur, and spouse may come into a danger. So, what is

the way out.

>

> Why does a rashi carry the energy of vaara only and not that of the

tithi???? Why does rashi represent vaara or fire?

>

> [sanjay Rath:] Because Raashi were created by Surya and for doing so

Surya took 12 forms called the Dvadasa Aditya...Narasimha you ask this??

What is happening?

>

> After all, Rudra rules over the element of fire and Gouri rules over

the element of water and one worships Gouri at the time of marriage.

Moreover, Venus (water) is the karaka for marriage. So one could even say

that UL/marriage is represented by water element and fasting on UL lord's

tithi brings the element of water (prosperity and well-being) to one's

marriage (UL)? One could even say that fasting on the weekday of UL lord

should be prohibited as it brings the fire element represented by weekday

to the water of UL and causes " gandanta " !

>

> [sanjay Rath:] UL is the Maya and is associated with the Raashi

Narasimha. It is the 12L which is the creator of the UL...just as the

mother Gouri creates everything through the shakti of the graha, all the

arudha are created by her due to the lordships of the planets. So fasting

on the tithi lorded by the 12th lord will be a *more correct* answer.

>

> Seriously, however, this kind of stretching of gandanta concepts is

quite illogical.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] It is not stretching ... it is the very definition of

gandanta – the interface between fire and water. Put a burning match in a

glass of water, the fire dies...There are other Ganda’s in the chart but

they are not anta (ends). Take Chitra ganda between Kanya and Tula.

>

> Now one more thing: Marriage is a yoga between two souls and why not

suggest fasting on the yoga day of the UL lord?

>

> [sanjay Rath:] What! What a brilliant suggestion.. .why don’t you

start it?

>

> * * *

>

> > Now suppose instead of 11th house if Mercury goes to 12th house

or 4

> > house then you cannot choose Dwadashi or Chaturthi for the same

> > because these thithis are ruled by Mercury only and fasting on

these

> > tithis will create serious doshas.

>

> Picking tithi based on house (12th house - Dwadashi, 4th house -

Chaturthi) is illogical as there are 12 houses only and more tithis.

> I have realized one thing over the years - If something is not

structurally sound, it is most likely false knowledge.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] J No comments

>

> * * *

>

> I can categorically declare one thing with utmost confidence. You pick

any weekday or tithi and take a vow to fast or do mouna vrata (remain

silent) on that weekday or tithi and meditate with a particular mantra

(any) at the end of the day. You can take a vow to keep that practice for a

certain duration of time (say, a few months or years) for a specific

purpose. Take a vow and keep the vrata for the duration. If brahmacharya

can be kept for the duration of the vrata, there is nothing like it!

>

> [sanjay Rath:] This is a fine statement but then you seem to be

saying that the Puranas and other teachings of the seers is of not much

relevance. Of course you are right as it will be spiritually beneficial.

For example, a person wishing to marry should not fast on UL days and

should choose any day (all days are the same) or any tithi (all tithi are

the same) and start fasting and do a mantra (any mantra!!) and then in a

few days, or (maybe) a few months (or maybe) a few years ... or maybe (what

you did not say), a few lifetimes, the marriage will happen! I cannot say

you are wrong, so I agree that what you say is right.

>

> If you keep such a vrata sincerely, you will make positive progress

towards achieving your purpose and definitely not go backwards, irrespective

of what is said by technical calculations based on our half-baked Jyotish

knowledge.

>

> * * *

>

> My friends, use the Jyotish knowledge available, but do realize that

it is imperfect and corrupted. Why is only the UL lord important? So many

planets may have so many kinds of influence on UL in a chart. And UL is one

of several factors showing marriage. There may be various influences in a

chart showing marriage. Is our thumb rule of using UL lord's weekday

missing some important factors? Quite possible!

>

> [sanjay Rath:] That is a very nasty statement. Once again you have

used adjectives (*imperfect, corrupted*) which is not becoming of you. Why

must you use nasty statements? Can’t you say things nicely?

>

> Three years back you said you are leaving jyotish....then again you

told me two years back and again recently that you are leaving jyotish. Now

it is getting very evident that *jyotish is leaving you*. The knowledge of

Jyotish is PERFECT – individuals embody it in different levels of their

understanding and intelligence.

>

> If you have the time to listen to the Jaimini Lectures at http://sohamsa. com/js/

do so as it will show you the depths of this knowledge you cannot imagine

exists in jyotish. The derivation of the chnhandas and what not all. Thumb

rules are meant for beginners. The day you decided to give up jyotish, you

got stuck in the thumb rules but then its ok with me. I always wished you

the best in whatever you do.

>

> But, despite some arbitrariness and imperfection, if a thumb rule

allows you to pick an austerity with confidence and create the mental

feeling that you are doing the best possible thing for your situation, it

is good. After all, what is critical is to do *some* austerity to burn the

blocking karma, with a positive frame of mind about what you are doing.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] No Narasimha, very happy marriages can happen, without

austerities as well.

>

> But, if endless theorization and complicated technicalities evolving

from the thumb rule are creating doubts and confusion in the minds of

people as they consider an austerity, that is useless and totally missing

the point.

>

> Some people tend to resort to heavy theorization based on very shaky

grounds. I suggest going back to the basics, thinking clearly and keeping

things simple.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] Human brains work differently in seeking the truth and

means to remedy the errors. Life is too complicated to keep everything

simple. For example, a heavily cursed Venus can block everything and UL

fast may not be able to solve the problem. Now would you say that heavy

thoerization and complication is happening and we should ignore the other

factors completely?

>

> Gem stones may harm when used incorrectly. But, austerities like

prayers, fasting, mouna vrata and brahmacharya will NEVER do you any harm.

If your body can take fasting, you can do it on any weekday or tithi

without too many calculations.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] Brahmacharya is good for someone planning to have a

baby or one who cannot conceive and this is kept for some period before the

appointed date of nisheka. Brahmacharya is good for marriage?! I think you

are mistaking abstinence from physical union as Brahmacharya. Oh no its so

different.

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst

rologer.org/ homam

> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst

rologer.org/ tarpana

> Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.

home.comcast. net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst

rologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan

nath.org

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

>

> sohamsa@

..com <sohamsa%

40. com> , Ajay Zharotia <ajayzharotia@> wrote:

> > ||Om Gurave Namah||

> >

> > Dear Swee, & jyotishis

> >

> > What Zoran is saying is right. Do not mix the energy of day lord

> > (Agni) by choosing the same tithi (jala) that will create serious

 

> > troubles for the spouse.

> > Let me explain the principle in a simple way so that there should

not

> > be any confusion.

> >

> > In your chart (Swee) Vrishabha lagna, UL is in 2nd house. So lord

of

> > the UL is the Mercury. Since fasting is prohibited for UL in 2nd

> > house see where the lord of the UL has gone. In your case mercury

has

> > gone to the 11th house hence it is Ekadashi. So rule is to choose

the

> > tithi is based on the placement of the UL lord.

> >

> > Now suppose instead of 11th house if Mercury goes to 12th house

or 4

> > house then you cannot choose Dwadashi or Chaturthi for the same

> > because these thithis are ruled by Mercury only and fasting on

these

> > tithis will create serious doshas.

> >

> > If you are doing fasting on the basis of tithis it should be done

in

> > sukla paksha only. But if you are doing in Krishna paksha

(Pitris)

> > also then it should be combined with the donation.

> >

> > I hope this will clarify the principal.

> >

> > Best Regards

> >

> > Ajay Zharotia

> > ajayzharotia@

> >

> > On Feb 4, 2009, at 12:51 PM, Sanjay Prabhakaran wrote:

> >

> > > || Om Gurave Namah ||

> > > Dear Swee,

> > > Can you please tell me the exact rule to use for fasting on

> > > tithi?.Do we use the 12th lord tithi?, Like if you are Ta

lagna,

> > > there 2 tithi one on Triteeya (3) and Ekadasha(11) . If we

consider

> > > only the paksh in which u are born.

> > > Now of the two which to use?.

> > >

> > > Warm Regards

> > > Sanjay p

> > >

> > > 2009/2/3 Swee Chan <swee@>

> > > Jaya Jagannatha

> > >

> > > Dear Hari, Zoki, et al in this discussion,

> > > Namaste

> > >

> > > The tongue in cheek, I'll excuse ;-)) it's my laugh for the

day!!

> > > I fast on ekadasi tithi because my UL is in 2nd house (ie

12th lord

> > > is in lagna). Since I was born on sukla paksha, Sanjay ji

suggests

> > > that I fast only on sukla ekadasi.

> > > Zoki, if you listen to JUS of Year I, you will note how

Sanjay ji

> > > came to this conclusion.

> > >

> > > love,

> > >

> > > Swee

> > >

> > > On 3 Feb 2009, at 15:25, Jyotisa Shisya wrote:

> > >

> > >> |om|

> > >> Dear Zoran, namaste

> > >>

> > >> Would not the general act of fasting be construed as an

insult to

> > >> Sri MahaVishnu?

> > >>

> > >> best regards

> > >> Hari

> > >>

> > >> On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 5:30 PM, ahimsavm

<ahimsans@>

> > >> wrote:

> > >> Om Namah Shivaya,

> > >> Dear Bojan and others,

> > >> Here is my point and view about the question raised. 2nd

bhava is

> > >> the bhava of Vishnu, sustainer, and if we fast on the

day of UL in

> > >> 2nd house, we bring insult to Vishnu who provides the

food for us.

> > >> However, to be honest, I have not heard this about 2nd

lord and

> > >> tithi. The basic point is that Upapada is a rashi and

carries energy

> > >> of Vara or day. If you fast on the day ruled by tithi of

the 2nd

> > >> lord, you are bringing the jala energy to vara, and

gandanta may

> > >> occur, and spouse may come into a danger. So, what is

the way out.

> > >> The simple solution is to do vrata which do not conflict

with

> > >> rejection of food. So a person may observe the fast on

UL in 2nd

> > >> day, however, adequate food should be offered as a

prasad and eaten

> > >> before the Sunrise (not complete fast).In this way,

results may come

> > >> a bit later, but will certainly come, while a person

will not bring

> > >> insult to Shri Vishnu by rejecting the food.

> > >> This is the way I was taught, and ofcourse others may agree

or not.

> > >> Best wishes

> > >> Zoran Radosavljevic

> > >> www.siva-edu.

info

> > >> www.ahimsazr1. wordpress. com

 

 

Get the world's best email - Xtra Mail

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Check

out the all-new Messenger 9.0!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite

them now.

[Guest guest]

Namaste

 

Kindly check my comments below.

 

-Regards

Rajarshi

 

The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra--- On Tue, 3/3/09, Sarbani Rath <sarbani wrote:

Sarbani Rath <sarbaniRE: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)sohamsa Date: Tuesday, 3 March, 2009, 2:54 PM

 

 

 

 

 

Hare Rama Krishna

Dear Rajarshi,

Narasimha has also in the past two years made many statements in bad taste which were uninformed, pre-conceived and were personal attacks.

Generally speaking, a statement in "bad taste" in entirely different from an "idea", however, "uninformed", "preconcieved" it may be or it may seem to be. Let me clarify my view with an example.

If someone says Osama Bin Laden is a very good man, I can say his idea is "uninformed", "preconcieved". But the statement is NOT in bad taste. However, if I reply to him saying you are a "bloody idiot", that is surely in very bad taste and a personal attack.

I am in no position to comment on previous interactions which Narasmihaji had in this forum. In this discussion, I do not see any personal attack from his side. If he had done anything like this previously, he should have been told clearly not to indulge in "personal attack". But, please understand, "personal attack" and "bad taste" are NOT synonymous with "stating or criticizing an IDEA". Everyone has to right to agree/disgaree with any idea and that is NOT a personal attack.

They were inserted in between long diatribes. No one said anything to him in the spirit of discussion.

If you think he has done "personal attacks" on anyone, you should have asked him to refrain. If I had seen such a think, I would have surely asked him to change his language, but in here in this current discussion I do not. Infact since the time I joined this forum I have never seen him indulge in any sort of personal attacks. He has criticized ideas, which one may or maynot agree with. Criticizing an idea or a concept is NOT personal attack. If that were so, then no debates would ever be allowed anywhere in the whole world.Rather, I see it coming from Michal in this thread and therefore I wrote what I think should have been written by others too. Secondly, when you do you make personal attacks and uninformed presumptions, you should expect some reactions from some people.

I think I have exlained the idea of personal attack in my replies above. About "uninformed presumptions" etc etc, if someone criticised an idea you hold sacred and that evokes a mindless, distasteful (almost a slug-fest) kind of reply (like Michal's reply), it just means you do not have any further reason or arguments in your support to justify your "belief". And you are plain ill mannered. Sorry but that is the exact truth. The best test of manners come when your most cherished ideas are challanged. One does not need to be great qualitfied jyotish to know this. Again Attack the Idea and NOT the person.

All this long reply was only to clarify my view point. Hope I am not misunderstood. I am not passing a judgement on where Narasimhaji is right or wrong. All I am saying is personal attacks cannot be encouraged, irrespective of who-ever indulges in the same.

Best Regards,

Sarbani Rath

Homepage: http://sarbani. com

Sagittarius Publications: http://sagittariusp ublications. com

Sohamsa: http://sohamsa. com

Sri Jagannath Centre: http:// .org

 

 

 

sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of rajarshi nandy03 March 2009 11:15sohamsa@ .comRE: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Namaste

 

 

 

The reason I had send that mail in this thread is because I felt Michal's reply was in extremely bad taste to say the least. There is no value addition on the issue being discussed and on the other hand he choses to indulge in personal attacks which should not be encouraged under any circumstance.

 

 

 

I personally am not a great jyotishi, but I know a thing or two about debates/discussion since I spend a consireable amount of my time on debating with various kinds of people various issues under the sun. A good discussion follows one inviolable rule. It is called AINP. Attack the Idea NOT the Person! Everyone has the basic fundamental right to agree or disagree with anyone in DEMOCRATIC and CIVIL manner. But personal attacks are not the way. Infact, Michals mail just a proved a few point for a third party observer like me.

 

 

 

a) He has nothing positive to contribute to this thread. No value add

 

 

 

b) He is out of arguments

 

 

 

c) He is frustated because of point (b)

 

 

 

d) He choses to vent his frustation by attacking the person rather than the idea.

 

 

 

This is the typical behaviour of a losing party in an argument.

 

 

 

Compare this (Michal's mail) to the replies given by Sri Sanjay Rath. A world of difference in the approach.There is something one can learn from just reading this exchange of mails between Narasimhaji and Sanjayji if one choses to have an open mind.

 

 

 

And *I feel*, the people who moderate this forum should set clear guidelines against any sort of personal attacks on anyone. Debate an idea, rip it apart if you can, but never attack the person who is giving the idea. But sadly, I do not see any of the senior jyotishi's in here so much as even warning Michal against this kind of behaviour.

 

 

 

-Regards

 

Rajarshi

 

 

The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra

--- On Mon, 2/3/09, Sarbani Rath <sarbani@srijagannat h.org> wrote:

Sarbani Rath <sarbani@srijagannat h.org>RE: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)sohamsa@ .comMonday, 2 March, 2009, 5:12 PM

 

 

 

 

 

Hare Rama Krishna

Dear Rajarshi,

Don’t get caught in the quagmire of empty conversations. A doctor needs to know about all the medicines in order to prescribe the appropriate one to his patients. It does not mean that he prescribes all of them or that he eats all of them himself. Nevertheless, he needs to study the science. Similarly astrologers need to become adept in the science of mantras and remedies, even to prescribe that one correct mantra as well as to understand the subject thoroughly. Whether the client is practising the mantra or not in good faith depends on his karmas. To make accusations of questionable sources and corruption of vedangas, without having a notion or a even a single clue about what that tradtion is prescribing and talking about regarding mantras is laughable. A lot of bellicose and uninformed noise is made on the lists by troubled souls. Naturally such statements shall evoke strong responses.

Best Regards,

Sarbani Rath

Homepage: http://sarbani. com Sagittarius Publications: http://sagittariusp ublications. com Sohamsa: http://sohamsa. com Sri Jagannath Centre: http:// .org

 

sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of rajarshi nandy02 March 2009 10:27sohamsa@ .comRe: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)

 

 

 

 

Dear Michal

 

 

 

 

 

Can you show us ONE jyotish, ANYONE, who has NEVER made a wrong prediction?

 

 

 

-Regards

 

Rajarshi

 

 

The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra

--- On Mon, 2/3/09, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal > wrote: Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal >Re: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)sohamsa@ .comMonday, 2 March, 2009, 4:57 AM

 

 

 

 

Hare Rama Krsna ||Dear Narasimhaaaaaaaaa,This fixing of attitude is faaaaaaaaaaaar more important than picking the right mantra, right weekday, right tithi etc (that too based on unreliable knowledge coming from questionable sources!).I agree: fixing of attitude is needed. 'Questionable sources'? Lets not lose our manners now.Jyotish is the study of time. Right weekday, right tithi etc. is important for Jyotish. Why deny or try to downplay this and promote your own preaching? Do you feel that your skills and proficiency in the subject are lacking so you attack the subject instead of addressing your own shortcomings? You made a bold prediction about the US Presidential election, when it was totally wrong you blamed the birth data despite explicitly stating that you had verified the times satisfactorily. We are all here to learn.

But don't start a vendetta against the vedanga.Here is a nice quote about psychological projection:"Psychological projection is a defense mechanism in which one attributes one's own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts and/or emotions to others. It occurs when a person's own unacceptable or threatening feelings are repressed and then attributed to someone else."An example of such simple behavior would be: blame for failure, making an excuse for your own faults by projecting the cause of said failure onto someone else, hence blaming them and not accepting the reality of the failure."Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted subconscious impulses or desires without letting the conscious mind recognize them".The source? The mystical and occult wikipaedia!Warm regards,Michal

 

 

 

 

 

 

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net>; vedic astrology; ; sohamsa@ .comMonday, 2 March, 2009 11:12:45 AM Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)

 

 



 

Dear Sanjay,

 

 

 

> Mantra Shastra is a very detailed work and includes mantra dosha etc.

 

> It is very scientific and accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this.

 

 

 

Some may be fascinated by the texture, color and volume of the chaff and miss the grain.

 

 

 

Most people who talk about mantra shastra focus on the chaff and not on the grain.

 

 

 

> You talk of begging God vs commanding God? Now where did that come from?

 

> How is it related to what is under discussion. Perhaps I have missed many

 

> mails and am not able to get the context. Trying to command God is

 

> *BLACK MAGIC* and this is detestable to say the least. The attitude should

 

> always be that of a beggar in front of God. If anyone has said otherwise, I

 

> also disagee with him/her.

 

 

 

I mentioned the above with respect to the need of thousands of mantras and technicalities. If one does not want to command god and wants to be a beggar who will take whatever is given, there is no need for thousands of mantras and all the umpteen technicalities. These thousands of mantras and umpteen technicalities are for commanding thousands of different results from god. That is why I talked of commanding vs begging. However, this commanding works slightly differently than one may imagine. I will elaborate.

 

 

 

Also, commanding god is NOT black magic. Commanding low level beings is black magic, which can be accomplished even by a person not quite elevated spiritually and suffering from a heavy ego. However, commanding higher beings such as gods is possible only for a spiritually elevated person with no or extremely small ego. This commanding that I am referring to is not an egoistic achievement. In fact, an egoist cannot achieve it. Only a person succeeding in completely effacing individual ego can achieve this commanding! I will repeat something from the previous mail to clarify:

 

 

 

 

The universe has many lokas (planes of consciousness) , many beings and many objects. There are infinite karmic interactions possible between them. Accordingly, there are infinite possible mantras. When one is able to perfectly control the mind and *fill it* with a mantra (i.e. no thoughts but the mantra reverberating in the mind constantly), then one experiences the mantra. This perfect absorption of self-awareness in the mantra then causes internal changes by the flow of energy internally in specific ways (specific to the mantra) and that causes corresponding external changes in the universe and corresponding karmic interactions between various objects.

 

 

 

Each set of "karmic interactions between various objects" is a "result". Various mantras are for various "results". One may term merging self-awareness in a mantra fully and getting a specific result from it as "commanding a result" from god. Whether you like the term or not, it is essentially that.

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

But the bottomline is this: Only a highly purified sadhaka of very low ego can command specific results from god (not for selfishness or even ego satisfaction, but acting as an unattached instrument of Nature fulfilling one's dharma set by Nature). Various mantras and technicalities of mantra shastra taught by rishis are meant for such sadhakas.

 

 

 

Those are hardly of use to so many people out there with dense egos seeking specific selfish results. They cannot command specific results from god (because of their heavy attachment to the result, which is in turn due to their own attachment to a limited ego), even if they use all the techniques of mantra shastra and all the associated rules of astrology. Instead of wasting their time with these technicalities, they will be better off learning to be good beggars at God's door.

 

 

 

Just pick any prasiddha mantra or a mantra you feel attracted to, without worrying about so many technicalities, and learn to be humble and surrender to the Lord. Patiently wait for him to give you what you want. Like a beggar, take whatever and whenever he gives.

 

 

 

Keep praying every day or every second when you are able to. Even when you are not praying, remember him in all of your actions. When you enjoy something in the material world, tell yourself that it is his and that he gave it to you. If you remember him all the time, slowly the dirt in your mind will start to get cleaned. This fixing of attitude is faaaaaaaaaaaar more important than picking the right mantra, right weekday, right tithi etc (that too based on unreliable knowledge coming from questionable sources!).

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

There may be a mountain with thousands of paths (mantra) for climbing it. Each path may lead to a different spot (different experience) on the top and show a different scenery (result). Expert advisors (astrologers) may tell you to use a specific path (mantra) to see a specific scenery (result). But such advice is useless to a handicapped person without legs (a selfish person with dense ego). It is relevant only to person with legs and one who is strong and sturdy, who can successfully climb the mountain (a reasonably detached person with very little ego).

 

 

 

Even when you encounter a person who has legs and can actually climb the mountain, the stress should be on how to climb the mountain and traverse the long path, rather than which path to take. The astrologers who are bogged down by all the technicalities and people who take customized mantra advice from astrologers and think that they will get a result quickly by doing that 'powerful' mantra are missing the basic point. The power of a powerful mantra is with respect to the experience and result obtained *after* one succeeds with the mantra. A partcicularly powerful mantra is akin to a path leading to a point atop the mountain where the view shows a particularly beautiful scenery. But the bottomline is that you do have to survive the climb along the long path.

 

 

 

We need to emphasize the attitude and approach needed for the long climb, rather than emphasizing the choice of the path based on horoscope. It is worth noting that so many great spiritual teachers who came in the last century or two did not emphasize picking the right mantra based on horoscope etc. Instead, they emphasized having the correct attitude - surrender, submission, devotion, patience, persistence, discipline, humility etc!!!! *That* is a lot more important and useful than trying to be oversmart with the choice of mantra, day etc and impress god.

 

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

> when should the worship of a graha be done? Let us say someone

 

> wishes to worship Mars (Mangala graha). When do you think this

 

> worship should be done?

 

You can do anyday. Parasara does not mention any day for doing homam to a graha.

 

 

 

In fact, if one wants, one can do a homam or worship to Mars (or any planet) every day. It is even better that way.

 

 

 

If an astrologer suggests doing it on a Tuesday, it is fine. But saying that doing it on so and so day will bring serious dangers because Mars is an enemy of so and so planet would be stretching things.

 

 

 

> [sanjay Rath:] Where do you think Veda Vyasa (Krishna dvaipaayana) got his

 

> knowledge and those who wrote it as scribes for him, where did they get it from?

 

From Self - from within. That is the source of all knowledge. A sadguru need not specifically teach thousand things, but needs to open the door inside.

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

> OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for Gandanta being in 0 deg,

 

> 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a junction between agni

 

> and jala...I want to her your words if you have any.

 

 

 

Parasara's definition of gandanta is restricted to two neighboring areas in a contiguous space having a predominance of fire and water elements. "I see fire and I see water. So there is gandanta" is a wrong approach. One can then call Venus, a watery planet, being in a fiery sign or Mars, a fiery planet, being in a watery sign as gandanta. Gandanta requires a *transition* in a contiguous space.

 

 

 

In your example of upapada lord's tithi, there is no contiguous space where there is a water-fire transition.

 

 

 

> Now somewhere you talked of wasting time!!! Look what you are doing.

 

> You were asked to work on Parashara by your Spiritual Master, and

 

> are you doing that? Me10, Ve7, Ve6...good research but is that from

 

> Parashara?

 

Well, Me10, Ve7 etc theory is based on marrying two different teachings of Parasara (bhava karakas and special lagnas). I do not really consider it as my creation but as understanding Parasara's teachings only.

 

 

 

Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

sohamsa@ .com, "Sanjay Rath" <sjrath wrote:>> om paramesthi gurave namah> > Dear Narasimha,> > I read this mail twice. OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for Gandanta being in 0 deg, 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a junction between agni and jala...I want to her your words if you have any. You keep saying Parasara says so and yet there is nothing forthcoming.> > The rashi is associated with the Aditya as the rashi come into existence because of the Sun, which is the agni tattva. Vara is also agni tattva among the panchanga of Jyotisha. That is why Vaara is related to rashi. Karma has been advised in the vaara of the lords of the rashi or the hora of the lords of the rashi related to a bhaava and for this reason, fasting and other

such karma related to rashi are also based on this. [see Prashna Marga for details].> > Moon is the significator of the Aroodha. It is the *emotional content* related to the maya manifestation of everything in life. Suffering is caused as we do not fathom the karma associated that resulted in suffering and fasting is a a means of self punishment and correction related to the raashi where the aroodha is. Just as Agni has the purity to burn the root of sin, fasting on vaara related to the UL is surely going to cleanse the sins associated with the suffering in it. While this may not give a 100% satisfaction as the *moon* content has not been addressed, at least the initiation of the aroodha occurs and people find their partners, get married and get along with life. Proof lies in the pudding and with so many cases where people have fasted on UL days and have got result, we have found faith in these teachings reinforced. Why fast? Fasting on

vaara is a means to correcting the flaw associated with the raashi. Raashi is a quantity and hence it is related to the material effects of the bhava and that is what people are looking for when they come to th astrologer. You have done well to recall my teachings in this – remember what I taught – Men should worship a female deity and women shold worship a male deity for the UL fasting. I wonder if they really follow this.> > Why not give fasting at night instead of day? Sun is always good for the Upapada (Jaimini etc) and that is why we have limited this to day fasting and not night fasting as well or 24 hour fast. This is my interpolation. [ satisfied J ] Elders would have given long periods of fast starting from the vaara, like keeping 21 days fast for the birth of child! You think I should be doing that! You think anyone will lsiten. Try it yourself before asking me to advise those hard penance kind of fasts.>

> Who says the Moon has nothing to do with the arudha. It is the sustainer. Now people to an astrologer when they are looking for getting married and hardly anyone comes these days asking for prolonging marriage. Either they want to get into one or get out of one and into another...astrologe rs these days are relegated to helping people make these transitions painless and fast. Of course some have come and I have not failed them. I have a ready shloka for this – start from Taurus in Hamsa gati:> > Gouri, Kaali, Uma, Bhadraa, Durga, Kanti, Saraswati> > Mangalaa, Vaishnavi, Lakshmi, Shivaa, Naraayani> > See I have them ready for the 12 signs in Hamsa Gati from the mool trikona of Moon in hamsa gati> > Mantra Shastra is a very detailed work and includes mantra dosha etc. It is very scientific and accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this. > > You talk of begging God vs

commanding God? Now where did that come from? How is it related to what is under discussion. Perhaps I have missed many mails and am not able to get the context. Trying to command God is *BLACK MAGIC* and this is detestable to say the least. The attitude should always be that of a beggar in front of God. If anyone has said otherwise, I also disagee with him/her.> > Prasiddha mantras always give result, even without initiation and who knows how ready a person is for initation. So I prefer sticking to prasiddha mantras with people who do not have initiations. This is there in VRA also.> > I have some questions where I have doubts about what you say. It is below your mail.> > With Warm Regards> > Sanjay Rath> > http://srath. com http://sohamsa. com http:// .org> > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India> > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of Narasimha P.V.R. Rao> 15 February 2009 09:34> sohamsa@ .com; Narasimha P.V.R. Rao> Cc: vedic astrology; > On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)> >  > Statement 1 is an arrogance that the entire Jyotisha shastra is bogus> > > and has no

relevance as the remedial measures prescribed by> > > Parasara and others to be done on specific days are irrlevant and> > > not of much consequence.> > First of all, Parasara did *not* prescribe fasting on specific weekdays or tithis based on any arudhas or houses in a chart.> > For doshas in birth chart or to get relief from planetary afflictions or to get the blessings of planets, he suggested various *homas* (fire rituals) and described how to perform them. His section on remedial measures is full of various homas. I am not dismissing those remedies taught by Parasara himself and I am in fact slowly preparing manuals on them so that anybody can do them by themselves.> > [sanjay Rath:] what about the Puranas? Have you gone through the Navagraha mantras given in the Garuda Purana and other puranic literature?> > Parasara did *not* specify the weekday or tithi for

most of these homas (e.g. planetary homas). Only for homas for specific birth doshas (e.g. Amavasya dosha or Moola dosha), he fixed the tithi or nakshatra based on the dosha and the deity. But the days are not based on any house or arudha in the chart.> > [sanjay Rath:] If Amavasya dosha is to be performed on Amavasya, when should the worship of a graha be done? Let us say someone wishes to worship Mars (Mangala graha). When do you think this worship should be done?> > Thus, the principles I am questioning are *not* from Parasara.> > [sanjay Rath:] Where do you think Veda Vyasa (Krishna dvaipaayana) got his knowledge and those who wrote it as scribes for him, where did they get it from?> > Second, I said what I said in a *context*. People are mentioning complicated principles that are not found in classics or works of rishis and scaring people that performing austerities such as fasting on certain

days cause "danger to spouse" or "serious doshas" or "insult to Vishnu", based on horoscope. I find these principles illogical and based on hasty thinking. There may be a little difference between doing an austerity on different days, but my point is that it is smaller compared to the difference between doing and not doing at all and that doing it on a "wrong day" does not cause danger as being suggested.> > [sanjay Rath:] I am sorry. I missed the context and just saw some mails that were forwarded to me amidst my writing. But them its always a pleasure to talk to you as in that many many have benefitted, and that includes us as well.> > Third, our shastras primarily talk about worshipping various deities on various days, based on the energy of the *deity*. For worshipping a certain deity, certain tithi or weekday or nakshatra is better than others. This is based on the deity and irrespective of the person worshipping. Let me

give an analogy. If a rich man comes out with more money to give to beggars on a specific day, a beggar is better off going and begging on that day. Schedule and mood of the giver is more important.> > [sanjay Rath:] That’s not right...at least people who read this will think. Let’s say Shiva worship on Mondays. Shiva is the pratyadhi devata of the Sun and is not worshipped on Sundays but on Mondays. NOTE – a day after Sunday! Similarly Narayana is the pratyadhi devata of Mercury and is worshipped on Thursdays instead of Wednesdays. NOTE – again a day after! So what happened to the energy equation? J> > Choosing the day of a remedy based on the deity is more important and the variations based on individual horoscope are less important. I am not saying there are no horoscopic variations. But they are smaller and, more importantly, I question if they are actually well-understood by astrologers today

to apply *reliably*. I question over-emphasizing and over-selling unreliable principles of questionable origin and scaring people on that basis.> > [sanjay Rath:] To this I can agree as many have not understood even the basics of Sanatana dharma! Some behave as if there is a battle going on between Shiva and Vishnu – it’s hilarious to see how these are just attempts to convert Hinduism into a religion they have left rather than trying to learn what Hinduism means. Being newly converted there is a bellicose patriotism in them to prove their faith to the *new god* they have found and every other God must be the devil in disguise!! It will take years for many to learn that there is no devil. It’s a figment of their imagination and whatever is devilish is the dark side of mankind himself.> > * * *> > >

Statement 2 is an arrogance that the entire mantra shastra is useless> > > and the Rishi’s were wasting time in giving so many mantras for> > > the same devata, like say thousands of mantras for Vishnu or Hanuman> > > when any one mantra would suffice. OR it is like saying that we can> > > take paracetamol and pray that cancer is cured. I think I may have to> > > write a book on Mantra Shastra to validate the teachings of the vedic> > > seers.> > [sanjay Rath:] I got your point here. It’s a good point. > > Now somewhere you talked of wasting time!!! Look what you are doing. You were asked to work on Parashara by your Spiritual Master, and are you doing that? Me10, Ve7, Ve6...good research but is that from Parashara? > > I also know what argument you will give me - J You will say I am

already working on that and have some spare time to do this as well...to which I will have nothing to say.>

 

 

-

 

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

 

sohamsa@ .com ; Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

 

Cc: vedic astrology ;

 

Saturday, February 14, 2009 11:03 PM

 

On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)

 

 

 

Dear Sanjay,

 

 

 

> Since you do not have any real definition of Gandanta, I am dropping that

 

 

 

I do have a definition of gandanta, which is Parasara's definition in BPHS.

 

 

 

Since some of you are extrapolating it based on the fire embodied in UL and water embodied in tithis, the onus is on you to outline and justify your definition. I got into this thread because statements were made that fasting on particular weekdays or tithis in a chart can cause "insult to Vishnu", "serious doshas" and "danger to spouse", based on these far-fetched extrapolations of gandanta.

 

 

 

> Which is perfectly in line with everything I have learnt.

 

 

 

Well, you once taught that houses represent Sun/Shiva/truth and arudhas represent Moon/Gouri/percepti on. That was meaningful. Now, you associated UL, an arudha, with Sun and fire and 12th, a house, with Gouri and water. I question whether the new theory on fasting is really in line with everything you have learnt (and taught).

 

 

 

BTW, I specifically asked for a clarification on whether this was based on your own thinking or from classics/parampara (see quoted mail below for the full context). Like so many times with similar questions I asked privately and recently publicly, you did not respond.

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

> Statement 1 is an arrogance that the entire Jyotisha shastra is bogus

 

> and has no relevance as the remedial measures prescribed by

 

> Parasara and others to be done on specific days are irrlevant and

 

> not of much consequence.

 

 

 

First of all, Parasara did *not* prescribe fasting on specific weekdays or tithis based on any arudhas or houses in a chart.

 

 

 

For doshas in birth chart or to get relief from planetary afflictions or to get the blessings of planets, he suggested various *homas* (fire rituals) and described how to perform them. His section on remedial measures is full of various homas. I am not dismissing those remedies taught by Parasara himself and I am in fact slowly preparing manuals on them so that anybody can do them by themselves.

 

 

 

Parasara did *not* specify the weekday or tithi for most of these homas (e.g. planetary homas). Only for homas for specific birth doshas (e.g. Amavasya dosha or Moola dosha), he fixed the tithi or nakshatra based on the dosha and the deity. But the days are not based on any house or arudha in the chart.

 

 

 

Thus, the principles I am questioning are *not* from Parasara.

 

 

 

Second, I said what I said in a *context*. People are mentioning complicated principles that are not found in classics or works of rishis and scaring people that performing austerities such as fasting on certain days cause "danger to spouse" or "serious doshas" or "insult to Vishnu", based on horoscope. I find these principles illogical and based on hasty thinking. There may be a little difference between doing an austerity on different days, but my point is that it is smaller compared to the difference between doing and not doing at all and that doing it on a "wrong day" does not cause danger as being suggested.

 

 

 

Third, our shastras primarily talk about worshipping various deities on various days, based on the energy of the *deity*. For worshipping a certain deity, certain tithi or weekday or nakshatra is better than others. This is based on the deity and irrespective of the person worshipping. Let me give an analogy. If a rich man comes out with more money to give to beggars on a specific day, a beggar is better off going and begging on that day. Schedule and mood of the giver is more important.

 

 

 

Choosing the day of a remedy based on the deity is more important and the variations based on individual horoscope are less important. I am not saying there are no horoscopic variations. But they are smaller and, more importantly, I question if they are actually well-understood by astrologers today to apply *reliably*. I question over-emphasizing and over-selling unreliable principles of questionable origin and scaring people on that basis.

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

> Statement 2 is an arrogance that the entire mantra shastra is useless

 

> and the Rishi’s were wasting time in giving so many mantras for

 

> the same devata, like say thousands of mantras for Vishnu or Hanuman

 

> when any one mantra would suffice. OR it is like saying that we can

 

> take paracetamol and pray that cancer is cured. I think I may have to

 

> write a book on Mantra Shastra to validate the teachings of the vedic

 

> seers.

 

 

 

I did not say it is "useless". Instead, I suggest that our ability to use it is limited and we should take our limitations into consideration.

 

 

 

The universe has many lokas (planes of consciousness) , many beings and many objects. There are infinite karmic interactions possible between them. Accordingly, there are infinite possible mantras. When one is able to perfectly control the mind and *fill it* with a mantra (i.e. no thoughts but the mantra reverberating in the mind constantly), then one experiences the mantra. This perfect absorption of self-awareness in the mantra then causes internal changes by the flow of energy internally in specific ways (specific to the mantra) and that causes corresponding external changes in the universe and corresponding karmic interactions between various objects.

 

 

 

However, this variety of mantras, experiences and results is irrelevant to one who does not have such perfect control over the mind to absorb the mind fully in a mantra. It is relevant only to a seer whose self-awareness is quite evolved and hence control over mind impeccable. Such seers are extremely extremely rare today. Most people are unable to experience any mantra and mantras do not work for them as they are supposed to.

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

Just repeating a combination of sounds does not guarantee anything. Some people may think that certain results come when they repeat a mantra certain number of times. That is an incorrect notion. A mantra may work for one person quickly and another may spend the whole life chanting it and nothing may happen. Absorption of the entire mind into a mantra is needed for a mantra to really work and it is much more difficult than one may think.

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

A highly learned scholar in the court of a king may be able to command the king and get whatever he wants from king. An incapable one is better off begging the king, rather than trying to command (and failing for sure).

 

 

 

Similarly, most people are better off begging god for what they want rather than trying to use the right mantra to command what they want. A beggar does not need a huge vocabulary or great scholarship or knowledge. Feeling of humility and helplessness, surrender, patience and persistence are what help a beggar succeed. A beggar needs the right attitude rather than knowledge. In this age and time, best bet for most people is to learn to be a good beggar at god's door.

 

 

 

What people today need for material and spiritual progress through remedial measures is a better attitude in begging god rather than a better choice of tools such as mantras and other specifics such as weekday, tithi etc to command a specific result from god.

 

 

 

It is worth noting that so many great spiritual teachers who came in the last century or two did not emphasize picking the right mantra based on horoscope etc. Instead, they emphasized having the correct attitude - surrender, submission, devotion, patience, persistence, discipline, humility etc. *That* is a lot more important and useful than trying to be oversmart with the choice of mantra, day etc and impress god.

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

One more thing. We have many mantras given by rishis, but the guidelines from rishis like Parasara on how to pick a mantra based on the horoscope are very limited. Astrologers today do not operate solely based on them. They use all kinds of other rules coming from various traditions. They are not free from corruption and imperfection. Most scriptures associate various mantras with various results, irrespective of horoscope. For example, irrespective of who is the 6th lord and 8th lord and lord of A6 and A8, Rina Vimochaka Angaraka mantra is good for debt control. And so on. Linking of horoscope is overplayed by today's astrologers, way beyond the scope of Parasara's guidelines.

 

 

 

If one has a sadguru, I recommend following the word of sadguru rather than that of an astrology theoretician.

 

 

 

If not, there is no foolproof way to know the right path. Pick any path (given by an astrologer or one that you feel attracted to) instead of wasting time and then keep working on your attitude. The latter is the key. As I said earlier, learn to be a humble beggar at god's door. Choice of Mantra is secondary and attitude is primary. If you succeed in being a really humble beggar, you stand a better chance of success than great scholars.

 

 

 

 

Any prasiddha mantra (e.g. ashtakshari, panchakshari, dwadasakshari, navakshari, vishnu sahasranaam, rudram, hare krishna maha mantra, chandipath, ganapati atharva seersham, mrityunjaya mantra etc) can help one make progress if one develops the right attitude. Without the right attitude, even an impeaccably picked mantra will do nothing.

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

I hope this sufficiently clarifies my stand. I discuss these matters related to spiritual sadhana more on the . Some writings are sampled at http://www.vedicast rologer.org/ homam/writings. htm.

 

 

 

Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

 

om paramesthi gurave namah

 

 

 

Dear Narasimha,

 

 

 

Since you do not have any real definition of Gandanta, I am dropping that and continue with my belief of the junction between Agni and Jala rasi as the case of gandanta and the loka junctions. Which is perfectly in line with everything I have learnt.

 

 

 

Two statements you have made contradict standard texts on Jyotish and Mantra Shastra. Please correct me if I am not understanding you well out here -

 

 

 

1. Statement 1: *fasting on any day or any tithi* is good so long as the sankalpa has been made for the devata you intend to pray to. Results maybe a bit delayed but will be there.2. Statement 2: *reciting any prayer* will give the desired effects for any ailment we wish to remedy

 

 

 

Is this what you intended to say or did I get this wrong?

 

 

 

Statement 1 is an arrogance that the entire Jyotisha shastra is bogus and has no relevance as the remedial measures prescribed by Parasara and others to be done on specific days are irrlevant and not of much consequence. This sounds like another astrologer I had known some time back whose statements like this coerced me to write Vedic Remedies in Astrology so that people are not misled but such pretexts to knowledge.

 

 

 

Statement 2 is an arrogance that the entire mantra shastra is useless and the Rishi’s were wasting time in giving so many mantras for the same devata, like say thousands of mantras for Vishnu or Hanuman when any one mantra would suffice. OR it is like saying that we can take paracetamol and pray that cancer is cured. I think I may have to write a book on Mantra Shastra to validate the teachings of the vedic seers.

 

 

 

I think there is something wrong in the way you are saying what you want to say. Please rethink and correct your statements for the sake of good record in this list.

 

 

 

With Warm Regards

 

Sanjay Rath

 

http://srath. com http://sohamsa. com http:// .org

 

15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India

 

 

 

-

 

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

 

sohamsa@ .com

 

Sunday, February 08, 2009 12:03 PM

 

Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING

 

 

 

Namaste Sanjay and friends,

 

 

 

My answers are in red and prefixed with "[Narasimha] ".

 

 

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

 

> > >> tithi. The basic point is that Upapada is a rashi and carries energy> > >> of Vara or day. If you fast on the day ruled by tithi of the 2nd> > >> lord, you are bringing the jala energy to vara, and gandanta may> > >> occur, and spouse may come into a danger. So, what is the way out.> > Why does a rashi carry the energy of vaara only and not that of the tithi???? Why does rashi represent vaara or fire?> > [sanjay Rath:] Because Raashi were created by Surya and for doing so Surya took 12 forms called the Dvadasa Aditya...Narasimha you ask this?? What is happening?

 

> > After all, Rudra rules over the element of fire and Gouri rules over the element of water and one worships Gouri at the time of marriage. Moreover, Venus (water) is the karaka for marriage. So one could even say that UL/marriage is represented by water element and fasting on UL lord's tithi brings the element of water (prosperity and well-being) to one's marriage (UL)? One could even say that fasting on the weekday of UL lord should be prohibited as it brings the fire element represented by weekday to the water of UL and causes "gandanta"!> > [sanjay Rath:] UL is the Maya and is associated with the Raashi Narasimha. It is the 12L which is the creator of the UL...just as the mother Gouri creates everything through the shakti of the graha, all the arudha are created by her due to the lordships of the planets. So fasting on the tithi lorded by the 12th lord will be a

*more correct* answer.

 

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

 

 

[Narasimha] We always say that houses (truth) are represented by Sun (aatman) and arudha padas (maya) by Moon (mind).

 

 

 

Thus, 12th house is the actual creator and UL is the apparent creator in the field of maya. Houses (truth) should actually be associated with Sun (aatman) and Shiva (and not Gouri), while arudha padas (perception) should actually be associated with Moon (mind) and Gouri. After all, that is what we do in the tripod method in dasa judgment.

 

 

 

Thus, it is actually more logical to say that 12th house and 12th lord imbibe the agni tattva of Sun and UL and UL lord imbibe the jala tattva of Moon.

 

 

 

Is the above "*more correct* answer" based on your own thinking or is it from a classic or from tradition?

 

 

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

 

> The mantra one meditates with at the end of a day's fasting is far more effective than at other times. The conservation of energy otherwise spent on digestion or speech will enable far more effective mantra meditation. So fast or keep mouna and then meditate with a mantra, to maximize the effect of the mantra.> > [sanjay Rath:] I do not agree with this. Correct eating is the best blessing for good mantra practise. On days when one fasts the mind is troubled by hunger causing the stomach to burn and churn and this disturbs mantra japa. Correct eating (alpa aahaara) is many many times better than complete fasting.

 

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

 

 

[Narasimha] Well, if one cannot fast, then one is destined to expend some energy on digestion after all and not focus all energy on the mantra. But the bottomline is that shastras say that one should meditate either without or with very little food (niraahaaro mitaahaaro). In any case, I hope we agree that meditation sessions after heavy eating are heavily restrained in effectiveness.

 

 

 

 

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

> Seriously, however, this kind of stretching of gandanta concepts is quite illogical.> > [sanjay Rath:] It is not stretching ... it is the very definition of gandanta – the interface between fire and water. Put a burning match in a glass of water, the fire dies...There are other Ganda’s in the chart but they are not anta (ends). Take Chitra ganda between Kanya and Tula.

 

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

 

 

[Narasimha] Putting a burning match in a glass of water does indeed kill fire. But the question is of contact. If I am thinking of fire in my mind while standing in water, it does not kill the fire. There is no contact.

 

 

 

My point is that the examples given have no real identifiable contact between water and fire.

 

 

 

One can be creative and come up with a lot of theories. For example, one can say that Moon and Venus are jala tattva and all rasis show agni tattva (then why are some rasis marked as agni rasis and some as water rasis etc) and hence the sign occupied by Moon and Venus cause contact between water and fire. Then one can say fasting on the weekdays of the dispositors of Moon and Venus causes gandanta and serious danger.

 

 

 

It is not enough to show some fire and some water. See what counts as contact. Otherwise, one will engage in illogical extrapolations.

 

 

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

 

 

 

> Three years back you said you are leaving jyotish....then again you told me two years back and again recently that you are leaving jyotish. Now it is getting very evident that *jyotish is leaving you*. The knowledge of Jyotish is PERFECT – individuals embody it in different levels of their understanding and intelligence.

 

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

 

 

 

[Narasimha] Nothing is permanent. What is one's cannot be taken away. And one cannot cling on to what is not one's. Some rejoice when it seems like something comes and cry when it seems like something leaves. Some impassionately observe as things seem to come and go and do what they see as their dharma with the things they seem to have.

 

Just a factual correction though

: I never said I was leaving Jyotish. For a few years after my spiritual master entered my life, my interest in other things went down (though I continued to do other things) and my focus on spiritual sadhana intensified. So I said that my interest in Jyotish was very low. However, my guru gave me a task later. He wanted me to study the teachings of Parasara independently, meditate on them and share my interpretations with the world. He said I was very passionate in my Jyotish activities earlier, and he wanted me to do the same now but dispassionately and without an attachment. He felt that I still have a contribution to make to Jyotish and wants me to do it as an unattached karma. His word is everything for me.

 

 

What I told you recently is not that I was leaving Jyotish but what I said above.

 

 

 

However, if your judgment is correct and if Jyotish is indeed "leaving" me, I am sure my spiritual guru will realize it sooner or later and change his command to me.

 

 

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

 

 

 

> I can categorically declare one thing with utmost confidence. You pick any weekday or tithi and take a vow to fast or do mouna vrata (remain silent) on that weekday or tithi and meditate with a particular mantra (any) at the end of the day. You can take a vow to keep that practice for a certain duration of time (say, a few months or years) for a specific purpose. Take a vow and keep the vrata for the duration. If brahmacharya can be kept for the duration of the vrata, there is nothing like it!> > [sanjay Rath:] This is a fine statement but then you seem to be saying that the Puranas and other teachings of the seers is of not much relevance. Of course you are right as it will be spiritually beneficial. For example, a person wishing to marry should not fast on UL days and should choose any day (all days are the same) or any tithi (all tithi are the same) and start

fasting and do a mantra (any mantra!!) and then in a few days, or (maybe) a few months (or maybe) a few years ... or maybe (what you did not say), a few lifetimes, the marriage will happen! I cannot say you are wrong, so I agree that what you say is right.

 

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

 

 

[Narasimha] This is a gross exaggeration.

 

 

 

Is all that is being taught and practiced now strictly from "Puranas and other teachings of the seers"?

 

 

 

I did not say all days and tithis are the same. Of course, there is some difference. But, it is not as big as being made here.

 

 

 

To make khoa, whether one uses cow milk or buffalo milk or milk of a brown cow or a black cow or a Jersey cow or another cow does make some difference. But it is secondary. To say that "danger" and "serious doshas" (see the quoted mails for such claims) can be caused by a wrong choice is wrong. To say that a wrong choice means khoa will take 100 years to make is also a gross exaggeration.

 

 

 

The main thing is that you need milk and sugar. If one is confused by endless claims of khoa making consultants and ends up not making khoa at all, that will be sad. In such a case, one can simply pick some milk or the other, take sugar and start cooking khoa. It will take an extra half hour, but the job will be done.

 

 

 

I request Jyotishis to behave responsibly and humbly and not engage in scare-mongering and say that a speicifc austerity (fasting on a specific weekday or tithi in a chart) can cause "danger" and "serious doshas". No wonder some spiritual teachers look down upon Jyotish and dismiss it. Such unbalanced attitude and self-importance from us does not help our cause!

 

 

 

Yes, Jyotish is helpful, but let us not oversell it or overplay the importance.. .

 

 

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

 

 

 

> Gem stones may harm when used incorrectly. But, austerities like prayers, fasting, mouna vrata and brahmacharya will NEVER do you any harm. If your body can take fasting, you can do it on any weekday or tithi without too many calculations.> > [sanjay Rath:] Brahmacharya is good for someone planning to have a baby or one who cannot conceive and this is kept for some period before the appointed date of nisheka. Brahmacharya is good for marriage?! I think you are mistaking abstinence from physical union as Brahmacharya. Oh no its so different.

 

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

 

 

[Narasimha] Of course, brahmacharya is much more, but also very difficult for most. Even physical celibacy is a good enough austerity. Physical celibacy over an extended period of time increases the efficacy of other austerities such as fasting, mouna vrata, meditation and homam.

 

 

 

Best regards,Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homamDo Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdomFree Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

sohamsa@ .com, "Sanjay Rath" <sjrath wrote:>> om paramesthi gurave namah> > Dear Narasimha> > Just added a few thoughts and questions since we are on the topic of spirituality, which is not my forte. So I am always seeking to learn.> > With Warm Regards> > Sanjay Rath> > http://srath. com http://sohamsa. com http:// .org> > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India> > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa@

. com] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao> 06 February 2009 00:48> sohamsa@ .com> Cc: > Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING> > Namaste friends,> > I would like to express my reservations on a couple of issues. It is funny that I should be typing this email on an Ekadashi day, when many Vaishnavas fast irrespective of their horoscopes.> > [sanjay Rath:] I write on dvadasi when so many vasihnava also fast and keep great austerities. J Any difference?> > > >> Here is my point and view about the question raised. 2nd bhava is> > >> the bhava of Vishnu, sustainer, and if we fast on the day of UL in> > >> 2nd house,

we bring insult to Vishnu who provides the food for us.> > My dear Zoran, please allow me to express my disagreement.> > Austerities can never be seen as an insult to Vishnu. Self-deprivation of 2nd house matters such as food (fasting) or speech (mouna vrata - vow of silence) are austerities. Giving up food or speech is not an insult to Vishnu just as giving up sex (i.e. brahmacharya) is not an insult to Sukracharya (Venus).> > [sanjay Rath:] I though Brahma was very angry that his sons decided not to have progeny and stayed celibate. So He created others. Why was Brahma angry when his sons remained celibate? Why should Sukracharya be angry if someone is celibate? How is it an insult or not an insult to Sukracharya? You are taking planet signification of Venus for 7H ...and linking this to creation process...which is wrong Narasimha. Brahma is seen from lords of dusthana 6, 8 and 12 from lagna or 7th which

is....you know this.There is nothing wrong with the 7th house as it is necessary for procreation. It is only the link of this with the Brahma graha that causes it to become a serious shad-ripu. Married people are as eligible for moksha as unmarried ones and bachelors. It depends on the following of dharma and ashrama.> > Various gods bestow various things on us, some at the gross physical level and some at the subtle spiritual level. As we overcome our dependendency on gross things, we make progress at the subtle level.> > If one eats food, a good amount of internal fire (and subtle internal energy associated with it) is used for digesting it and for generating physical energy from it. If one fasts, that subtle energy is unused and available for other things. This is a tremendous benefit. As a result, one can better digest mantras and spiritual food available all around one.> > The mantra one meditates with at

the end of a day's fasting is far more effective than at other times. The conservation of energy otherwise spent on digestion or speech will enable far more effective mantra meditation. So fast or keep mouna and then meditate with a mantra, to maximize the effect of the mantra.> > [sanjay Rath:] I do not agree with this. Correct eating is the best blessing for good mantra practise. On days when one fasts the mind is troubled by hunger causing the stomach to burn and churn and this disturbs mantra japa. Correct eating (alpa aahaara) is many many times better than complete fasting.> > > >> However, to be honest, I have not heard this about 2nd lord and> > >> tithi. The basic point is that Upapada is a rashi and carries energy> > >> of Vara or day. If you fast on the day ruled by tithi of the 2nd> > >> lord, you are bringing the jala energy to vara, and gandanta

may> > >> occur, and spouse may come into a danger. So, what is the way out.> > Why does a rashi carry the energy of vaara only and not that of the tithi???? Why does rashi represent vaara or fire?> > [sanjay Rath:] Because Raashi were created by Surya and for doing so Surya took 12 forms called the Dvadasa Aditya...Narasimha you ask this?? What is happening?> > After all, Rudra rules over the element of fire and Gouri rules over the element of water and one worships Gouri at the time of marriage. Moreover, Venus (water) is the karaka for marriage. So one could even say that UL/marriage is represented by water element and fasting on UL lord's tithi brings the element of water (prosperity and well-being) to one's marriage (UL)? One could even say that fasting on the weekday of UL lord should be prohibited as it brings the fire element represented by weekday to the water of UL and causes

"gandanta"!> > [sanjay Rath:] UL is the Maya and is associated with the Raashi Narasimha. It is the 12L which is the creator of the UL...just as the mother Gouri creates everything through the shakti of the graha, all the arudha are created by her due to the lordships of the planets. So fasting on the tithi lorded by the 12th lord will be a *more correct* answer.> > Seriously, however, this kind of stretching of gandanta concepts is quite illogical.> > [sanjay Rath:] It is not stretching ... it is the very definition of gandanta – the interface between fire and water. Put a burning match in a glass of water, the fire dies...There are other Ganda’s in the chart but they are not anta (ends). Take Chitra ganda between Kanya and Tula.> > Now one more thing: Marriage is a yoga between two souls and why not suggest fasting on the yoga day of the UL lord?> > [sanjay Rath:]

What! What a brilliant suggestion.. .why don’t you start it? > > * * *> > > Now suppose instead of 11th house if Mercury goes to 12th house or 4 > > house then you cannot choose Dwadashi or Chaturthi for the same > > because these thithis are ruled by Mercury only and fasting on these > > tithis will create serious doshas.> > Picking tithi based on house (12th house - Dwadashi, 4th house - Chaturthi) is illogical as there are 12 houses only and more tithis.> I have realized one thing over the years - If something is not structurally sound, it is most likely false knowledge.> > [sanjay Rath:] J No comments> > * * *> > I can categorically declare one thing with utmost confidence. You pick any weekday or tithi and take a vow to fast or do mouna vrata (remain silent) on that weekday or tithi and meditate with a particular

mantra (any) at the end of the day. You can take a vow to keep that practice for a certain duration of time (say, a few months or years) for a specific purpose. Take a vow and keep the vrata for the duration. If brahmacharya can be kept for the duration of the vrata, there is nothing like it!> > [sanjay Rath:] This is a fine statement but then you seem to be saying that the Puranas and other teachings of the seers is of not much relevance. Of course you are right as it will be spiritually beneficial. For example, a person wishing to marry should not fast on UL days and should choose any day (all days are the same) or any tithi (all tithi are the same) and start fasting and do a mantra (any mantra!!) and then in a few days, or (maybe) a few months (or maybe) a few years ... or maybe (what you did not say), a few lifetimes, the marriage will happen! I cannot say you are wrong, so I agree that what you say is right.> > If

you keep such a vrata sincerely, you will make positive progress towards achieving your purpose and definitely not go backwards, irrespective of what is said by technical calculations based on our half-baked Jyotish knowledge.> > * * *> > My friends, use the Jyotish knowledge available, but do realize that it is imperfect and corrupted. Why is only the UL lord important? So many planets may have so many kinds of influence on UL in a chart. And UL is one of several factors showing marriage. There may be various influences in a chart showing marriage. Is our thumb rule of using UL lord's weekday missing some important factors? Quite possible!> > [sanjay Rath:] That is a very nasty statement. Once again you have used adjectives (*imperfect, corrupted*) which is not becoming of you. Why must you use nasty statements? Can’t you say things nicely? > > Three years back you said you are leaving

jyotish....then again you told me two years back and again recently that you are leaving jyotish. Now it is getting very evident that *jyotish is leaving you*. The knowledge of Jyotish is PERFECT – individuals embody it in different levels of their understanding and intelligence. > > If you have the time to listen to the Jaimini Lectures at http://sohamsa. com/js/ do so as it will show you the depths of this knowledge you cannot imagine exists in jyotish. The derivation of the chnhandas and what not all. Thumb rules are meant for beginners. The day you decided to give up jyotish, you got stuck in the thumb rules but then its ok with me. I always wished you the best in whatever you do.> > But, despite some arbitrariness and imperfection, if a thumb rule allows you to pick an austerity with confidence and create the mental feeling that you are doing the best

possible thing for your situation, it is good. After all, what is critical is to do *some* austerity to burn the blocking karma, with a positive frame of mind about what you are doing.> > [sanjay Rath:] No Narasimha, very happy marriages can happen, without austerities as well.> > But, if endless theorization and complicated technicalities evolving from the thumb rule are creating doubts and confusion in the minds of people as they consider an austerity, that is useless and totally missing the point.> > Some people tend to resort to heavy theorization based on very shaky grounds. I suggest going back to the basics, thinking clearly and keeping things simple.> > [sanjay Rath:] Human brains work differently in seeking the truth and means to remedy the errors. Life is too complicated to keep everything simple. For example, a heavily cursed Venus can block everything and UL fast may not be able to

solve the problem. Now would you say that heavy thoerization and complication is happening and we should ignore the other factors completely?> > Gem stones may harm when used incorrectly. But, austerities like prayers, fasting, mouna vrata and brahmacharya will NEVER do you any harm. If your body can take fasting, you can do it on any weekday or tithi without too many calculations.> > [sanjay Rath:] Brahmacharya is good for someone planning to have a baby or one who cannot conceive and this is kept for some period before the appointed date of nisheka. Brahmacharya is good for marriage?! I think you are mistaking abstinence from physical union as Brahmacharya. Oh no its so different.> > Best regards,> Narasimha> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana> Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% 40. com> , Ajay Zharotia <ajayzharotia@> wrote:> > ||Om Gurave Namah||> > > > Dear Swee, & jyotishis> > > > What Zoran is saying is right. Do not mix the energy of day lord > > (Agni) by choosing the same tithi (jala) that will create serious > > troubles for the spouse.> > Let me explain the principle in a simple way so that there should not > > be any confusion.> > > > In your chart (Swee) Vrishabha lagna, UL is in 2nd house. So lord of > > the UL is the Mercury. Since fasting is prohibited for UL in 2nd > > house see where the lord of the UL has gone. In your case mercury has > > gone to the 11th house hence it is Ekadashi. So rule is to choose the >

> tithi is based on the placement of the UL lord.> > > > Now suppose instead of 11th house if Mercury goes to 12th house or 4 > > house then you cannot choose Dwadashi or Chaturthi for the same > > because these thithis are ruled by Mercury only and fasting on these > > tithis will create serious doshas.> > > > If you are doing fasting on the basis of tithis it should be done in > > sukla paksha only. But if you are doing in Krishna paksha (Pitris) > > also then it should be combined with the donation.> > > > I hope this will clarify the principal.> > > > Best Regards> > > > Ajay Zharotia> > ajayzharotia@> > > > On Feb 4, 2009, at 12:51 PM, Sanjay Prabhakaran wrote:> > > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> > > Dear Swee,> > > Can you

please tell me the exact rule to use for fasting on > > > tithi?.Do we use the 12th lord tithi?, Like if you are Ta lagna, > > > there 2 tithi one on Triteeya (3) and Ekadasha(11) . If we consider > > > only the paksh in which u are born.> > > Now of the two which to use?.> > >> > > Warm Regards> > > Sanjay p> > >> > > 2009/2/3 Swee Chan <swee@>> > > Jaya Jagannatha> > >> > > Dear Hari, Zoki, et al in this discussion,> > > Namaste> > >> > > The tongue in cheek, I'll excuse ;-)) it's my laugh for the day!!> > > I fast on ekadasi tithi because my UL is in 2nd house (ie 12th lord > > > is in lagna). Since I was born on sukla paksha, Sanjay ji suggests > > > that I fast only on sukla ekadasi.> > > Zoki, if

you listen to JUS of Year I, you will note how Sanjay ji > > > came to this conclusion.> > >> > > love,> > >> > > Swee> > >> > > On 3 Feb 2009, at 15:25, Jyotisa Shisya wrote:> > >> > >> |om|> > >> Dear Zoran, namaste> > >>> > >> Would not the general act of fasting be construed as an insult to > > >> Sri MahaVishnu?> > >>> > >> best regards> > >> Hari> > >>> > >> On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 5:30 PM, ahimsavm <ahimsans@> > > >> wrote:> > >> Om Namah Shivaya,> > >> Dear Bojan and others,> > >> Here is my point and view about the question raised. 2nd bhava is> > >> the bhava of Vishnu, sustainer, and if we fast on

the day of UL in> > >> 2nd house, we bring insult to Vishnu who provides the food for us.> > >> However, to be honest, I have not heard this about 2nd lord and> > >> tithi. The basic point is that Upapada is a rashi and carries energy> > >> of Vara or day. If you fast on the day ruled by tithi of the 2nd> > >> lord, you are bringing the jala energy to vara, and gandanta may> > >> occur, and spouse may come into a danger. So, what is the way out.> > >> The simple solution is to do vrata which do not conflict with> > >> rejection of food. So a person may observe the fast on UL in 2nd> > >> day, however, adequate food should be offered as a prasad and eaten> > >> before the Sunrise (not complete fast).In this way, results may come> > >> a bit later, but will certainly come, while a

person will not bring> > >> insult to Shri Vishnu by rejecting the food.> > >> This is the way I was taught, and ofcourse others may agree or not.> > >> Best wishes> > >> Zoran Radosavljevic> > >> www.siva-edu. info> > >> www.ahimsazr1. wordpress. com

Get the world's best email - Xtra Mail

 

 

 

 

 

Check out the all-new Messenger 9.0!

 

 

 

 

Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now.

 

 

Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now.

[Guest guest]

Namaste SundeepPlease pardon my intervention. Hindus are not idol worshipers. And it is the Hindus who know that Lord only is. They do not use the word " one " , since " one " presupposes " two " and " three " ... and so on. Since Lord only is, the entirety is contained within in including all time, space and causation. Every object, every being is contained within the Lord. For an untrained mind, it is difficult to consume this. To focus one's attention to this principle he needs something tangible. So an object that can signify this principle to the person becomes an object of worship. Once this shape is given to the object... it is never considered an Idol. It is worshipped as God itself. Noone goes to the temple and says " Hey Idol, .... " , everyone fold their hands and say " Hey Krishna or Hey Rama or Hey Shiva ..... " .

The people who wrongly call hindus idol worshippers are themselves worshipping the idols. What is a cross? What is a the book Koran or the image of Mecca or the words " Allah Hu Akbar " inscribed on a plate? These all are Idols. Aren't they?

So long is there a world and realization does not dawn upon oneself, one would need something to focus their mind with. This in our scriptures have been suggested through various ways:1. Shapes and Symbols

2. Elements3. Upasanas: Observing the nature and relating it to the Truth. Like endless is the space and time and relating the quality of endless to the Truth.4. Mantra Japa- Herein the sound reverberates with the certain element/aspect of nature. To that root is added our request. For those who seek the truth, the mantra japa serves as a constant reminder of the what the Truth is. For those how seek certain ends from it, they gain only that much.

Therefore Sundeep, I request you to study our culture more and you shall find nothing that is sane and truthful missing from it. Sri Narasimha is suggesting that we do not command the Lord and worship him undertaking any appealing mantra - which essentially means that the more we understand its meaning the idea of the Lord shall become clearer and clearer in our minds. This approach is for spiritual aspirants who are willing to " let go themselves in the hands of the lord " . This is something that one has to realize for oneself and not impose on others. Furthermore, it should not be called " begging " . There is no difference between the Lord and our True Self. To call ourselves beggars is to defile us and Srimad Bhagavad Gita warns against such a self judgement.

Most people do not use the above approach, they want specific remedies for their specific problems and that too quickly. The Mantra Shastra helps both approaches. For the students, I think it is this part they should learn as Jyotishas and the above part shall come automatically with their spiritual " growth " and understanding.

Hope this helpsThanks and RegardsBharatOn Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 4:07 AM, vedicastrostudent <vedicastrostudent wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Narasimhaji (and it might help others to read this fully too,

trust me you may well be satisfied),

 

First, let me say I am not about to either agree/disagree with you. I

am only standing back and observing/categorizing your approach, and

comparing it historical events that will give me a sense of the final

import of your approach.

 

If you read about Abraham, the supposed " father " of the three

religions (Christianity, Judaism and Islam) that have together had the

most following among all religions in the world (ever). As far as I

know, he lived in a time of deities and ritual. He is supposedly the

first to have actively sought to bring the notion of one God to the

masses. He destroyed idols much to the dissatisfaction of lots around

him. Apparently God revealed himself to Abraham several times.

Abraham submitted himself completely to the will of God, always,

without question. It seems logical to conclude that he destroyed and

denounced idolatry because he felt, at the very least, that focus on

the multiplicity of deity and webs of rituals took *away* a person's

focus from the real thing - submission to the one and only God (which

is what Abraham was really about i.e. submission to the one and only

God). Before jumping to any conclusions about what I am trying to say,

please read on.

 

Me, I'm fascinated by religious psychology, i.e. what drives people to

believe in God and how. I *dont seek to denounce* either Abraham or

the idolaters (Hindus would obviously come to mind here), only to

understand them. The way I have found to unify these two seemingly

contradictory approaches is the following, and perhaps it will help

you as well: God is *eventually only one* of course and " resides " deep

within us, and projects himself (I use " project " in exactly the sense

Michal describes) in various ways into human experience. As people get

spiritually elevated, the projections become less necessary and they

are able to have a more and more direct experience of God.

Consequently, they start forgetting the role the projections

*originally had in the beginning of their path* and consider the most

important thing to be the complete submission to the *growing* inner

light of God within themselves.

 

My feeling is that that is what happened to Abraham, and is what is

happening to you as well. Psychologically and astrologically speaking,

the examples you choose to illustrate your point betray your

psychology. You have unconsciously chosen an example of a mountain,

with the *final God experience* sitting on top. That final God

experience is the Sun, astrologically speaking i.e. the source, the

symbol of the growing inner light within *you*. The various paths to

the top that you talk about represent, I think, Mercury, with its

various forms and distinctions (Prithvi tattwa?). As you behold the

Sun, the king, in all his magnificence, everything else pales in

comparison. And sure enough, you start posting that all the paths are

unimportant :-)

 

But see, not everyone is there yet, all the distinctions and dates and

rituals are important, because they will unerringly lead one there, as

they did for you. At least that's what I have gathered after listening

to Sanjayji and all the gurus on this group..

 

Regards,

 

Sundeep

[Guest guest]

Hare Rama Krsna ||Dear Hari,

if a person happens to fast for whatever reason on some particular

day/tithi, why is it equated to an insult on the most compassionate

Vishnu?I don't believe anyone here is trying to put forward the notion that fasting on a particular day will insult Vishnu. This whole thread has become a misunderstanding of language. The initial point was that when the UL is in the 2nd house one should not fast as this is Vishnu sthana and the 2nd house of sustenance. To fast on this day, you could say, will create a 'conflict of interest'. With all due respect to Zoran, because of a lack of time to be more specific, and Serbian (not english) being his mother tongue, he used this word 'insult', which given the fallout that resulted may not have been the write/right word to use.Nevertheless, lets not get stuck on words, lets try to understand the principle: Say a person has UL in 2nd house Leo. If they unknowingly fast on a Sunday then that is one thing. If they go to a Jyotishi, who should have knowledge on these things, and they are

told to fast on Sunday for a specific result, then they and the Jyotishi may suffer from some ill result due to fasting on the day of the 2nd lord - 'conflict of interest'. If a doctor prescribes wrong medicine then naturally we can expect an ill result. We all agree this can happen with gemstones.Another differentiation - fasting for UL is different to fasting for spiritual penance, which again is different from fasting because you are a fashion model. Anyone can encourage people to fast for spiritual penance, but only a Jyotishi can advise someone the correct day to fast for getting married.Warm regards,MichalJyotisa Shisya <achyutagaddisohamsa Sent: Tuesday, 3 March, 2009 5:32:21 PMRe: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)

 

om sri rama jaya rama jaya jaya rama

Dear Sanjay/Narasimha, pranaams

 

Please forgive me for my comments that I am about to make. First, this discussion initially very interesting is now turning me cold.

 

Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa repeatedly scoffed at the idea that God is compassionate. His argument was that God has been and continues to be compassionate from day one of our existence. And through out my life, this is one thing that I have realized i.e., that God is very, very compassionate.

 

So now, Sanjay, tell me one thing: if a person happens to fast for whatever reason on some particular day/tithi, why is it equated to an insult on the most compassionate Vishnu?

 

Do you not find this absurd? Yet this is the crux of what was stated in a recent discussion thread.

 

Secondly, Sarbani wrote in this discussion thread that there are troubled souls out there indulging in all this talk about corruption of principles and what not. Again this is absurd as to paraphrase Mirabai, there are troubled souls everywhere on this planet Earth and everyone of them is in search of the truth, whatver it may be called.

 

best regards

Hari

 

best regards

Hari

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Sanjay,

 

 

 

> No No Narasimha, mantra is beautiful. It is not *ardous* like

> climbing mountain. It is beautiful like a dance – yes a dance

 

> on top of Kailash with Lord Shiva.

 

Well, if mantra is really like a dance on top of Kailasha for you, you are fortunate. However, most people do have to engage in an arduous climbing to enjoy such a dance. If I (or anybody else) were to tell people that mantras work magically without a lot of discipline and effort and internal maturing, I would be misleading them. If I were to tell people that their problems will be magically solved because they came to me and got the perfect mantra to the perfect deity, I would be misleading them.

 

 

> So this sermn is very wrong really. I have mantra lord Moon in

> 12th house, so it s a dance for me, you have 5th lord (mantra) in

> 8th house (hard) in debility in Aries (mountain), so it like

> climbing a mountain for you.

> You see here also the karma plays out.

 

Karma does indeed play out, but the question is whether we are reading it correctly or not!

 

Yes, my 5th lord is indeed in 8th but with several planets and aspected by Jupiter and giving many yogas. Are we sure we are judging it correctly? Yes, your 5th lord is in 12th, but he is in marana karaka sthana from 5th and aspected closely by Rahu. Are we sure we are judging it correctly?

 

Bottomline is that judging the play of karmas is not a simple thing and one can always make mistakes. In any case, I suggest that we should not get personal under the pretext of demonstrating how karmas play out.

 

 

 

> Secondly, whether someone is training to be a beggar at Gods door

> is the work of his/her spiritual master and NOT that of the Jyotishi.

> An astrologer is *required to be humble* and not arrogate to himself

> this task of asking people to be humble before God or such things.

 

OK, so what then is the task of this "humble" astrologer? If telling people to surrender to god and pray is arrogance, what do you call telling people that one has knowledge which will let them get what they want from god? Also, is it really humble to make statements that austerities can bring dangers and insult to Vishnu? When an astrologer recommends mantras and makes statements like these, one is already encroaching on the space of a spiritual master somewhat.

 

 

> ....since the letter is addressed to me it implies that you mean *I am selfish*

 

Though the mail is addressed to you, a lot of portions inside are addressed to all. The above point is not about any specific person. I apologize for any confusion.

 

 

> > > OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for Gandanta being in 0 deg,

> > > 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a junction between agni

> > > and jala...I want to her your words if you have any.

> >

> > Parasara's definition of gandanta is restricted to two neighboring areas in a

> > contiguous space having a predominance of fire and water elements. "I see

> > fire and I see water. So there is gandanta" is a wrong approach. One can

> > then call Venus, a watery planet, being in a fiery sign or Mars, a fiery planet,

> > being in a watery sign as gandanta. Gandanta requires a *transition* in a

> > contiguous space. In your example of upapada lord's tithi, there is no

> > contiguous space where there is a water-fire transition.

> >

 

> There is something called Tithi Gandanta! Gandanta exists between

> Purna and nanda tithi.

 

Yes, but we do have a contiguous space here. The contiguous 0-360 deg space of Sun-Moon angle has portions with predominance of different elements. When there are transitions between portioins having a predominance of fire and water, Parasara gave a tithi gandanta there.

 

When you are talking about the tithi of UL lord, what is the contiguous space, what are its portions and what are the transitions? It is an illogical extension of gandanta.

 

* * *

 

In conclusion, I will sum up my main points. [This is copied from the other mail from today and slightly edited.]

 

 

 

(1) The knowledge needed for judging specific karmas responsible for specific results and suggesting specific remedies is partly lost and partly corrupted today. What we have is a non-coherent collage of some good knowledge and a lot of corruptions.

 

The way gandanta is being stretched and people are talking of insult to Vishnu by fasting etc, it should be clear that knowledge is being corrupted based on fancy imagination. People are presenting their ideas without making it clear that those are their ideas.

 

(2) Many people today are unable to use many specific remedies given in shastras today. Just because one worships a specific form with a specific mantra, things do not necessarily happen. There is a lot more needed and most of it is not external (e.g. choice of weekday or tithi or color of clothes, direction faced etc) but internal (e.g. discipline, patience, surrender, humility, low ego etc). In the old days, these internal issues were pretty much under control and mantras worked well. Now, people lack on those big time and mantras do not work the way they are supposed to.

 

 

Given the above two points, best path for one today is to surrender to a deity, try to instill discipline, humility and patience and pray for mercy, rather than running after astrologers for customized remedies.

 

(3) *Austerities* like fasting do *not* harm one.

 

 

Best regards, Narasimha------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpanaSpirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

sohamsa@ .com, "Sanjay Rath" <sjrath wrote:

 

 

 

 

om paramesthi gurave namah

Dear Narasimha

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

> Mantra Shastra is a very detailed work and includes mantra dosha etc.

 

 

> It is very scientific and accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this.

 

 

 

Some may be fascinated by the texture, color and volume of the chaff and miss the grain.

 

 

 

 

Most people who talk about mantra shastra focus on the chaff and not on the grain.

[sanjay Rath:] This sounds like saying that Einsten is bogus as Newtons theory can explain everything! Viewpoint is very important. Perhaps what you call the grain is the tree itself! That is the depth of knowledge which decides whether you have the ability to reach the grain or are still searching for the tree.

 

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

But the bottomline is this: Only a highly purified sadhaka of very low ego can command specific results from god (not for selfishness or even ego satisfaction, but acting as an unattached instrumen t of Nature fulfilling one's dharma set by Nature). Various mantras and technicalities of mantra shastra taught by rishis are meant for such sadhakas.

[sanjay Rath:] When will you start learning this?

 

 

 

Those are hardly of use to so many people out there with dense egos seeking specific selfish results. They cannot command specific results from god (because of their heavy attachment to the result, which is in turn due to their own attachment to a limited ego), even if they use all the techniques of mantra shastra and all the associated rules of astrology. Instead of wasting their time with these technicalities, they will be better off learning to be good beggars at God's door.

[sanjay Rath:] This is wrong. There was a time when there were only a few very qualified doctors and they alone could cure. When the knowledge is shared, more doctors arrive in the planet and they too can heal.

 

Secondly, whether someone is training to be a beggar at Gods door is the work of his/her spiritual master and NOT that of the Jyotishi. An astrologer is *required to be humble* and not arrogate to himself this task of asking people to be humble before God or such things. The path that every creature takes is that of the spiritual master they seek and follow. And it is the humility to the Guru alone that brings the ego under control and makes it humble. One who cannot be humble before the Guru is a gross failure when he tries to be humble before God and submit. So what you are saying is actually *not fully correct*

The first step is to be a beggar before the teacher/guru and then alone can you be ready to be a beggar at the doors of God.

 

 

 

 

Just pick any prasiddha mantra or a mantra you feel attracted to, without worrying about so many technicalities, and learn to be humble and surrender to the Lord. Patiently wait for him to give you what you want. Like a beggar, take whatever and whenever he gives.

[sanjay Rath:] I have done this for about 30 years now, and I believe many people in this list have done this for maybe even longer periods. What is the new thing you are saying?

 

 

 

 

Keep praying every day or every second when you are able to. Even when you are not praying, remember him in all of your actions. When you enjoy something in the material world, tell yourself that it is his and that he gave it to you. If you remember him all the time, slowly the dirt in your mind will start to get cleaned. This fixing of attitude is faaaaaaaaaaaar more important than picking the right mantra, right weekday, right tithi etc (that too based on unreliable knowledge coming from questionable sources!).

[sanjay Rath:] Stop giving a sermon Narasimha?? I know all this, so what is it that you are talking about? Come to the point.

 

It is pathetic that what you say as *unreliable source* is what you practised for a decade and never questioned it until suddenly when you are *not a part of the Jaimini scholar program* !!

Vaara/Weekday prayers -

Forget the first batch of Jaimini scholars, just ask anyone in the second batch in year-2/3 and they can easily explain –

 

 

Why is Lord Shiva worshipped on Mondays? Why is Lord Vishnu worshipped on Thursdays?

Now don’t try to tell me you did not know that Lord Shiva is worshipped by millions of Indians on Mondays!

Tithi Prayers

Fasting on tithi’s concerned to the birth anniversary of the devata on the days of the tithi are too well known. And you are a software maker, have written papers on this also. So why this sudden volta-face?

 

Ekadashi fasting is done by a few millions of people for Krishna for Yuga santarana i.e. tiding over the Yuga effects.

Why is ekadashi fasting advocated for this? What link does Ekadashi have to Kali yuga? You do not know the answer does not mean that it is wrong. And if you know the answer, then why do you say that the tithi fasting is wrong??!

 

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

There may be a mountain with thousands of paths (mantra) for climbing it. Each path may lead to a different spot (different experience) on the top and show a different scenery (result). Expert advisors (astrologers) may tell you to use a specific path (mantra) to see a specific scenery (result). But such advice is useless to a handicapped person without legs (a selfish person with dense ego). It is relevant only to person with legs and one who is strong and sturdy, who can successfully climb the mountain (a reasonably detached person with very little ego).

[sanjay Rath:] Another Sermon about being selfish

.....since the letter is addressed to me it implies that you mean *I am selfish*. ...and now people will be wondering about what am I selfish? Is it because I did not share the Jaimni scholar lectures? I invited you and een was prepard to shift dates, but you were too busy filming about Krishna’s birth or something.

 

 

 

 

 

Even when you encounter a person who has legs and can actually climb the mountain, the stress should be on how to climb the mountain and traverse the long path, rather than which path to take. The astrologers who are bogged down by all the technicalities and people who take customized mantra advice from astrologers and think that they will get a result quickly by doing that 'powerful' mantra are missing the basic point. The power of a powerful mantra is with respect to the experience and result obtained *after* one succeeds with the mantra. A partcicularly powerful mantra is akin to a path leading to a point atop the mountain where the view shows a particularly beautiful scenery. But the bottomline is that you do have to survive the climb along the long path.

 

[sanjay Rath:] No No Narasimha, mantra is beautiful. It is not *ardous* like climbing mountain. It is beautiful like a dance – yes a dance on top of Kailash with Lord Shiva.

 

So this sermn is very wrong really. I have mantra lord Moon in 12th house, so it s a dance for me, you have 5th lord (mantra) in 8th house (hard) in debility in Aries (mountain), so it like climbing a mountain for you.

You see here also the karma plays out.

 

 

 

We need to emphasize the attitude and approach needed for the long climb, rather than emphasizing the choice of the path based on horoscope. It is worth noting that so many great spiritual teachers who came in the last century or two did not emphasize picking the right mantra based on horoscope etc. Instead, they emphasized having the correct attitude - surrender, submission, devotion, patience, persistence, discipline, humility etc!!!! *That* is a lot more important and useful than trying to be oversmart with the choice of mantra, day etc and impress god.

[sanjay Rath:] Really and how do you wish to *STANDADIZE* this? You have a given formula for the approach and attitude or is it borrowed from another, and if so then why are you assuming that the people in this list do not know about *surrender, submission, devotion, patience, persistence, discipline, humility etc!!!! *

 

No one is trying to be over smart. They are being smart.

They are only using certain rules to approach based on available knowledge. And that knowledge seems to be bothering you like your problem with Upapada fasting.

 

 

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

> when should the worship of a graha be done? Let us say someone

 

 

> wishes to worship Mars (Mangala graha). When do you think this

 

> worship should be done?

 

You can do anyday. Parasara does not mention any day for doing homam to a graha.

 

In fact, if one wants, one can do a homam or worship to Mars (or any planet) every day. It is even better that way.

 

 

If an astrologer suggests doing it on a Tuesday, it is fine. But saying that doing it on so and so day will bring serious dangers because Mars is an enemy of so and so planet would be stretching things.

 

[sanjay Rath:] Read the PURANAS. What you write clearly shows lack of understanding  of the Puranas. Why would the Rishi advise a particular day? Are they wrong? Why is the Gayatri initiation done on Wednesdays and Thursdays? Why is it not done on Saturday?

 

You earlier said that this can be done on any day, then why did they advise a particular day for this?

 

 

 

 

> [sanjay Rath:] Where do you think Veda Vyasa (Krishna dvaipaayana) got his

 

 

> knowledge and those who wrote it as scribes for him, where did they get it from?

 

 

From Self - from within. That is the source of all knowledge. A sadguru need not specifically teach thousand things, but needs to open the door inside.

[sanjay Rath:] THAT IS AHAMKARA speaking.

The correct answer in complete humility is “The knowledge comes from one source – Bhagavan.†Surrender to Him and he is the one who will have the door opened, and then the self will gradually fade away like a mist coming over a house.

 

 

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

> OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for Gandanta being in 0 deg,

 

> 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a junction between agni

 

> and jala...I want to her your words if you have any.

 

 

 

Parasara's definition of gandanta is restricted to two neighboring areas in a contiguous space having a predominance of fire and water elements. "I see fire and I see water. So there is gandanta" is a wrong approach. One can then call Venus, a watery planet, being in a fiery sign or Mars, a fiery planet, being in a watery sign as gandanta. Gandanta requires a *transition* in a contiguous space.

 

 

 

In your example of upapada lord's tithi, there is no contiguous space where there is a water-fire transition.

[sanjay Rath:] There is something called Tithi Gandanta! Gandanta exists between Purna and nanda tithi.

 

What is wrong with tithi fasting related to the devata of the planet associated with the Upapada? While Vara vrata will bring about marriage, tithi vrata associated with the devata should sustain it? Similarly, malefic in the 12th house can also be pacified either by their devata or if there are planets in the 8th house, then these planets shall support.

 

 

 

 

> Now somewhere you talked of wasting time!!! Look what you are doing.

 

 

> You were asked to work on Parashara by your Spiritual Master, and

 

> are you doing that? Me10, Ve7, Ve6...good research but is that from

 

> Parashara?

 

Well, Me10, Ve7 etc theory is based on marrying two different teachings of Parasara (bhava karakas and special lagnas). I do not really consider it as my creation but as understanding Parasara's teachings only.

 

 

 

[sanjay Rath:] Special Lagna are derived on the principle of circular motion and the Sun as the Lagna in the first place is derived from the Sun.

 

What you have done is to treat every planet like the Sun which is wrong.

The normal procedure for looking at the karaka bhava is Me10 = 10th house from Mercury; Ve7 is 7th house from Venus and so on...in the rasi and varga charts.

Narasimha, this is your creation and NOT taught in BPHS. Please do not twist.

 

 

 

Get the world's best email - Xtra Mail

[Guest guest]

Dear Bharat,Well said.Sarbani RathSent from my iPhoneOn Mar 4, 2009, at 12:24 AM, Bharat - Hindu Astrology <astrologyhindu wrote:

 

Namaste SundeepPlease pardon my intervention. Hindus are not idol worshipers. And it is the Hindus who know that Lord only is. They do not use the word "one", since "one" presupposes "two" and "three"... and so on. Since Lord only is, the entirety is contained within in including all time, space and causation. Every object, every being is contained within the Lord. For an untrained mind, it is difficult to consume this. To focus one's attention to this principle he needs something tangible. So an object that can signify this principle to the person becomes an object of worship. Once this shape is given to the object... it is never considered an Idol. It is worshipped as God itself. Noone goes to the temple and says " Hey Idol, ...." , everyone fold their hands and say "Hey Krishna or Hey Rama or Hey Shiva .....".

The people who wrongly call hindus idol worshippers are themselves worshipping the idols. What is a cross? What is a the book Koran or the image of Mecca or the words "Allah Hu Akbar" inscribed on a plate? These all are Idols. Aren't they?

So long is there a world and realization does not dawn upon oneself, one would need something to focus their mind with. This in our scriptures have been suggested through various ways:1. Shapes and Symbols

2. Elements3. Upasanas: Observing the nature and relating it to the Truth. Like endless is the space and time and relating the quality of endless to the Truth.4. Mantra Japa- Herein the sound reverberates with the certain element/aspect of nature. To that root is added our request. For those who seek the truth, the mantra japa serves as a constant reminder of the what the Truth is. For those how seek certain ends from it, they gain only that much.

Therefore Sundeep, I request you to study our culture more and you shall find nothing that is sane and truthful missing from it. Sri Narasimha is suggesting that we do not command the Lord and worship him undertaking any appealing mantra - which essentially means that the more we understand its meaning the idea of the Lord shall become clearer and clearer in our minds. This approach is for spiritual aspirants who are willing to "let go themselves in the hands of the lord". This is something that one has to realize for oneself and not impose on others. Furthermore, it should not be called "begging". There is no difference between the Lord and our True Self. To call ourselves beggars is to defile us and Srimad Bhagavad Gita warns against such a self judgement.

Most people do not use the above approach, they want specific remedies for their specific problems and that too quickly. The Mantra Shastra helps both approaches. For the students, I think it is this part they should learn as Jyotishas and the above part shall come automatically with their spiritual "growth" and understanding.

Hope this helpsThanks and RegardsBharatOn Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 4:07 AM, vedicastrostudent <vedicastrostudent > wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Narasimhaji (and it might help others to read this fully too,

trust me you may well be satisfied),

 

First, let me say I am not about to either agree/disagree with you. I

am only standing back and observing/categorizing your approach, and

comparing it historical events that will give me a sense of the final

import of your approach.

 

If you read about Abraham, the supposed "father" of the three

religions (Christianity, Judaism and Islam) that have together had the

most following among all religions in the world (ever). As far as I

know, he lived in a time of deities and ritual. He is supposedly the

first to have actively sought to bring the notion of one God to the

masses. He destroyed idols much to the dissatisfaction of lots around

him. Apparently God revealed himself to Abraham several times.

Abraham submitted himself completely to the will of God, always,

without question. It seems logical to conclude that he destroyed and

denounced idolatry because he felt, at the very least, that focus on

the multiplicity of deity and webs of rituals took *away* a person's

focus from the real thing - submission to the one and only God (which

is what Abraham was really about i.e. submission to the one and only

God). Before jumping to any conclusions about what I am trying to say,

please read on.

 

Me, I'm fascinated by religious psychology, i.e. what drives people to

believe in God and how. I *dont seek to denounce* either Abraham or

the idolaters (Hindus would obviously come to mind here), only to

understand them. The way I have found to unify these two seemingly

contradictory approaches is the following, and perhaps it will help

you as well: God is *eventually only one* of course and "resides" deep

within us, and projects himself (I use "project" in exactly the sense

Michal describes) in various ways into human experience. As people get

spiritually elevated, the projections become less necessary and they

are able to have a more and more direct experience of God.

Consequently, they start forgetting the role the projections

*originally had in the beginning of their path* and consider the most

important thing to be the complete submission to the *growing* inner

light of God within themselves.

 

My feeling is that that is what happened to Abraham, and is what is

happening to you as well. Psychologically and astrologically speaking,

the examples you choose to illustrate your point betray your

psychology. You have unconsciously chosen an example of a mountain,

with the *final God experience* sitting on top. That final God

experience is the Sun, astrologically speaking i.e. the source, the

symbol of the growing inner light within *you*. The various paths to

the top that you talk about represent, I think, Mercury, with its

various forms and distinctions (Prithvi tattwa?). As you behold the

Sun, the king, in all his magnificence, everything else pales in

comparison. And sure enough, you start posting that all the paths are

unimportant :-)

 

But see, not everyone is there yet, all the distinctions and dates and

rituals are important, because they will unerringly lead one there, as

they did for you. At least that's what I have gathered after listening

to Sanjayji and all the gurus on this group..

 

Regards,

 

Sundeep