On Remedial Measures Difference (Resolving Points)

March 4, 2009

" For those who seek the truth, the mantra japa serves as a constant reminder of

the what the Truth is. For those how seek certain ends from it, they gain only

that much. "

" Mantra Shastra helps both approaches. "

thanx Bharat.

dear all,

If we understands this, it will bring much peace.

else repeat OMmmmmmm......and 'become' the SILENCE....isnt that the end to all

troubles? Easier said than done.

Best regards,

SS

>

> On Mar 4, 2009, at 12:24 AM, Bharat - Hindu Astrology <astrologyhindu

> > wrote:

>

> > Namaste Sundeep

> >

> > Please pardon my intervention. Hindus are not idol worshipers. And

> > it is the Hindus who know that Lord only is. They do not use the

> > word " one " , since " one " presupposes " two " and " three " ... and so on.

> > Since Lord only is, the entirety is contained within in including

> > all time, space and causation. Every object, every being is

> > contained within the Lord. For an untrained mind, it is difficult to

> > consume this. To focus one's attention to this principle he needs

> > something tangible. So an object that can signify this principle to

> > the person becomes an object of worship. Once this shape is given to

> > the object... it is never considered an Idol. It is worshipped as

> > God itself. Noone goes to the temple and says " Hey Idol, .... " ,

> > everyone fold their hands and say " Hey Krishna or Hey Rama or Hey

> > Shiva ..... " .

> >

> > The people who wrongly call hindus idol worshippers are themselves

> > worshipping the idols. What is a cross? What is a the book Koran or

> > the image of Mecca or the words " Allah Hu Akbar " inscribed on a

> > plate? These all are Idols. Aren't they?

> >

> > So long is there a world and realization does not dawn upon oneself,

> > one would need something to focus their mind with. This in our

> > scriptures have been suggested through various ways:

> >

> > 1. Shapes and Symbols

> > 2. Elements

> > 3. Upasanas: Observing the nature and relating it to the Truth. Like

> > endless is the space and time and relating the quality of endless to

> > the Truth.

> > 4. Mantra Japa- Herein the sound reverberates with the certain

> > element/aspect of nature. To that root is added our request. For

> > those who seek the truth, the mantra japa serves as a constant

> > reminder of the what the Truth is. For those how seek certain ends

> > from it, they gain only that much.

> >

> > Therefore Sundeep, I request you to study our culture more and you

> > shall find nothing that is sane and truthful missing from it.

> >

> > Sri Narasimha is suggesting that we do not command the Lord and

> > worship him undertaking any appealing mantra - which essentially

> > means that the more we understand its meaning the idea of the Lord

> > shall become clearer and clearer in our minds. This approach is for

> > spiritual aspirants who are willing to " let go themselves in the

> > hands of the lord " . This is something that one has to realize for

> > oneself and not impose on others. Furthermore, it should not be

> > called " begging " . There is no difference between the Lord and our

> > True Self. To call ourselves beggars is to defile us and Srimad

> > Bhagavad Gita warns against such a self judgement.

> >

> > Most people do not use the above approach, they want specific

> > remedies for their specific problems and that too quickly. The

> > Mantra Shastra helps both approaches. For the students, I think it

> > is this part they should learn as Jyotishas and the above part shall

> > come automatically with their spiritual " growth " and understanding.

> >

> > Hope this helps

> >

> > Thanks and Regards

> > Bharat

> >

> > On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 4:07 AM, vedicastrostudent <vedicastrostudent

> > > wrote:

> > Dear Narasimhaji (and it might help others to read this fully too,

> > trust me you may well be satisfied),

> >

> > First, let me say I am not about to either agree/disagree with you. I

> > am only standing back and observing/categorizing your approach, and

> > comparing it historical events that will give me a sense of the final

> > import of your approach.

> >

> > If you read about Abraham, the supposed " father " of the three

> > religions (Christianity, Judaism and Islam) that have together had the

> > most following among all religions in the world (ever). As far as I

> > know, he lived in a time of deities and ritual. He is supposedly the

> > first to have actively sought to bring the notion of one God to the

> > masses. He destroyed idols much to the dissatisfaction of lots around

> > him. Apparently God revealed himself to Abraham several times.

> > Abraham submitted himself completely to the will of God, always,

> > without question. It seems logical to conclude that he destroyed and

> > denounced idolatry because he felt, at the very least, that focus on

> > the multiplicity of deity and webs of rituals took *away* a person's

> > focus from the real thing - submission to the one and only God (which

> > is what Abraham was really about i.e. submission to the one and only

> > God). Before jumping to any conclusions about what I am trying to say,

> > please read on.

> >

> > Me, I'm fascinated by religious psychology, i.e. what drives people to

> > believe in God and how. I *dont seek to denounce* either Abraham or

> > the idolaters (Hindus would obviously come to mind here), only to

> > understand them. The way I have found to unify these two seemingly

> > contradictory approaches is the following, and perhaps it will help

> > you as well: God is *eventually only one* of course and " resides " deep

> > within us, and projects himself (I use " project " in exactly the sense

> > Michal describes) in various ways into human experience. As people get

> > spiritually elevated, the projections become less necessary and they

> > are able to have a more and more direct experience of God.

> > Consequently, they start forgetting the role the projections

> > *originally had in the beginning of their path* and consider the most

> > important thing to be the complete submission to the *growing* inner

> > light of God within themselves.

> >

> > My feeling is that that is what happened to Abraham, and is what is

> > happening to you as well. Psychologically and astrologically speaking,

> > the examples you choose to illustrate your point betray your

> > psychology. You have unconsciously chosen an example of a mountain,

> > with the *final God experience* sitting on top. That final God

> > experience is the Sun, astrologically speaking i.e. the source, the

> > symbol of the growing inner light within *you*. The various paths to

> > the top that you talk about represent, I think, Mercury, with its

> > various forms and distinctions (Prithvi tattwa?). As you behold the

> > Sun, the king, in all his magnificence, everything else pales in

> > comparison. And sure enough, you start posting that all the paths are

> > unimportant :-)

> >

> > But see, not everyone is there yet, all the distinctions and dates and

> > rituals are important, because they will unerringly lead one there, as

> > they did for you. At least that's what I have gathered after listening

> > to Sanjayji and all the gurus on this group..

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Sundeep

> >

>

March 4, 2009

Hare Rama Krishna

Dear

Rajarshi,

I

think I hold a different opinion from you. I was not referring to criticism of

ideas. I come from an academic background and I am used to far more critical

comments to ideas and writings then it is there in these forums. I have worked

for 15 years in the academia. So lets not get into that. I was referring

to comments in â€œbad tasteâ€. And I stick by that. You may not have seen them but

many others have. But they discreetly and politely refrained from making any

comments. Secondly, I am in no position to tell Narasimha or anyone else anything.

Why should I? I am not their mother nor a moral policeman. I am not invloved in

these discussions in anyway. Nor do I intend to, as I rather spend my time more

constructively. I do not find these discussions particularly interesting as

they are not based on any particular intellectual debate. I do think its a

diatribe based on some loose pre-conceived notions. It is not a constructive

criticim on a particular theory. But that is my personal standpoint. Narasimha

and anyone else for that matter is free to air their opinions and thoughts,

whether intellectual or otherwise. He has the right to air whatever notions he

has and voice his feelings. But please dont say that it is an intellectual

debate. I hope you dont mind if I refrain from commenting on this any further;

as I am overloaded with work and I would like to use my time constructively.

And if ever there is any real intellectual debate, I will be the first

one to jump in.

Best

Regards,

Sarbani

Rath

Homepage:

http://sarbani.com

Sagittarius

Publications: http://sagittariuspublications.com

Sohamsa:

http://sohamsa.com

Sri

Jagannath Centre: http://.org

sohamsa

[sohamsa ] On Behalf Of rajarshi nandy

03 March 2009 17:23

sohamsa

RE: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re:

Resolving Points)

Namaste

Kindly check my comments below.

-Regards

Rajarshi

The

upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava -

Shiva Sutra

--- On Tue, 3/3/09, Sarbani Rath <sarbani

wrote:

Sarbani Rath

<sarbani

RE: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving

Points)

sohamsa

Tuesday, 3 March, 2009, 2:54 PM

Hare Rama Krishna

Dear Rajarshi,

Narasimha has also in the past two years made many

statements in bad taste which were uninformed, pre-conceived and were

personal attacks.

Generally

speaking, a statement in " bad taste " in entirely different from an

" idea " , however, " uninformed " , " preconcieved "

it may be or it may seem to be. Let me clarify my view with an

example.

If

someone says Osama Bin Laden is a very good man, I can say his idea is

" uninformed " , " preconcieved " . But the statement is NOT in

bad taste. However, if I reply to him saying you are a " bloody

idiot " , that is surely in very bad taste and a personal attack.

I am

in no position to comment on previous interactions which Narasmihaji had in

this forum. In this discussion, I do not see any personal attack

from his side. If he had done anything like this previously, he should have

been told clearly not to indulge in " personal attack " . But, please

understand, " personal attack " and " bad taste " are NOT

synonymous with " stating or criticizing an IDEA " .

Everyone has to right to agree/disgaree with any idea and that is NOT a

personal attack.

They were inserted in between long diatribes. No one said

anything to him in the spirit of discussion.

If

you think he has done " personal attacks " on anyone, you should have

asked him to refrain. If I had seen such a think, I would have surely asked

him to change his language, but in here in this current discussion I do not.

Infact since the time I joined this forum I have never seen him indulge in

any sort of personal attacks. He has criticized ideas, which one may

or maynot agree with. Criticizing an idea or a concept is NOT personal

attack. If that were so, then no debates would ever be allowed anywhere in

the whole world.Rather, I see it coming from Michal in this thread and

therefore I wrote what I think should have been written by others too.

Secondly, when you do you make personal attacks and

uninformed presumptions, you should expect some reactions from some people.

I

think I have exlained the idea of personal attack in my replies above. About

" uninformed presumptions " etc etc, if someone criticised an idea

you hold sacred and that evokes a mindless, distasteful (almost a slug-fest)

kind of reply (like Michal's reply), it just means you do not have any

further reason or arguments in your support to justify your

" belief " . And you are plain ill mannered. Sorry but that is the

exact truth. The best test of manners come when your most cherished ideas are

challanged. One does not need to be great qualitfied jyotish to know

this. Again Attack the Idea and NOT the person.

All

this long reply was only to clarify my view point. Hope I am not

misunderstood. I am not passing a judgement on where Narasimhaji is right or

wrong. All I am saying is personal attacks cannot be encouraged, irrespective

of who-ever indulges in the same.

Best Regards,

Sarbani Rath

Homepage: http://sarbani. com

Sagittarius Publications: http://sagittariusp

ublications. com

Sohamsa: http://sohamsa. com

Sri Jagannath Centre: http:// .org

sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa@

. com] On Behalf Of rajarshi nandy

03 March 2009 11:15

sohamsa@ .com

RE: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re:

Resolving Points)

Namaste

The reason I had send that mail in this thread is because I felt

Michal's reply was in extremely bad taste to say the least. There is no

value addition on the issue being discussed and on the other hand he choses

to indulge in personal attacks which should not be encouraged under any

circumstance.

I personally am not a great jyotishi, but I know a thing or two about

debates/discussion since I spend a consireable amount of my time on

debating with various kinds of people various issues under the sun. A good

discussion follows one inviolable rule. It is called AINP. Attack the Idea

NOT the Person! Everyone has the basic fundamental right to agree or

disagree with anyone in DEMOCRATIC and CIVIL manner. But personal attacks

are not the way. Infact, Michals mail just a proved a few point for a third

party observer like me.

a) He has nothing positive to contribute to this thread. No value add

b) He is out of arguments

c) He is frustated because of point (b)

d) He choses to vent his frustation by attacking the person rather

than the idea.

This is the typical behaviour of a losing party in an argument.

Compare this (Michal's mail) to the replies given by Sri Sanjay

Rath. A world of difference in the approach.There is something one can

learn from just reading this exchange of mails between Narasimhaji and

Sanjayji if one choses to have an open mind.

And *I feel*, the people who moderate this forum should set clear

guidelines against any sort of personal attacks on anyone. Debate an idea,

rip it apart if you can, but never attack the person who is giving the

idea. But sadly, I do not see any of the senior jyotishi's in here so much

as even warning Michal against this kind of behaviour.

-Regards

Rajarshi

The

upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra

--- On Mon, 2/3/09, Sarbani Rath <sarbani@srijagannat h.org>

wrote:

Sarbani Rath <sarbani@srijagannat h.org>

RE: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving

Points)

sohamsa@ .com

Monday, 2 March, 2009, 5:12 PM

Hare Rama Krishna

Dear Rajarshi,

Donâ€™t get caught in the quagmire of empty

conversations. A doctor needs to know about all the medicines in order to

prescribe the appropriate one to his patients. It does not mean that he

prescribes all of them or that he eats all of them himself. Nevertheless,

he needs to study the science. Similarly astrologers need to become adept

in the science of mantras and remedies, even to prescribe that one correct

mantra as well as to understand the subject thoroughly. Whether the client

is practising the mantra or not in good faith depends on his karmas. To

make accusations of questionable sources and corruption of vedangas,

without having a notion or a even a single clue about what that tradtion is

prescribing and talking about regarding mantras is laughable. A lot of

bellicose and uninformed noise is made on the lists by troubled souls.

Naturally such statements shall evoke strong responses.

Best Regards,

Sarbani Rath

Homepage: http://sarbani. com

Sagittarius Publications: http://sagittariusp

ublications. com

Sohamsa: http://sohamsa. com

Sri Jagannath Centre: http:// .org

sohamsa@ .com

[sohamsa] On Behalf Of rajarshi nandy

02 March 2009 10:27

sohamsa@ .com

Re: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re:

Resolving Points)

Dear Michal

Can you show us ONE jyotish, ANYONE, who has NEVER made a wrong

prediction?

-Regards

Rajarshi

The

upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra

--- On Mon, 2/3/09, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal >

wrote:

Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal >

Re: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving

Points)

sohamsa@ .com

Monday, 2 March, 2009, 4:57 AM

Hare Rama Krsna ||

Dear Narasimhaaaaaaaaa,

This fixing of attitude is faaaaaaaaaaaar more important than picking the

right mantra, right weekday, right tithi etc (that too based on

unreliable knowledge coming from questionable sources!).

I agree: fixing of attitude is needed. 'Questionable

sources'? Lets not lose our manners now.

Jyotish is the study of time. Right weekday, right tithi etc. is

important for Jyotish. Why deny or try to downplay this and promote

your own preaching? Do you feel that your skills and proficiency in

the subject are lacking so you attack the subject instead of addressing

your own shortcomings? You made a bold prediction about the US

Presidential election, when it was totally wrong you blamed the birth

data despite explicitly stating that you had verified the times

satisfactorily. We are all here to learn. But don't start a

vendetta against the vedanga.

Here is a nice quote about psychological projection:

" Psychological projection is a defense mechanism in which one

attributes one's own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts and/or emotions to

others. It occurs when a person's own unacceptable or threatening

feelings are repressed and then attributed to someone else.

" An example of such simple behavior would be: blame for failure,

making an excuse for your own faults by projecting the cause of said

failure onto someone else, hence blaming them and not accepting the

reality of the failure.

" Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the

unwanted subconscious impulses or desires without letting the conscious

mind recognize them " .

The source? The mystical and occult wikipaedia!

Warm regards,

Michal

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net>

; vedic astrology@ .

com; ; sohamsa@ .com

Monday, 2 March, 2009 11:12:45 AM

Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re:

Resolving Points)

ï»¿

Dear Sanjay,

> Mantra Shastra is a very

detailed work and includes mantra dosha etc.

> It is very scientific and

accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this.

Some may be fascinated by the

texture, color and volume of the chaff and miss the grain.

Most people who talk about mantra

shastra focus on the chaff and not on the grain.

> You talk of begging God vs

commanding God? Now where did that come from?

> How is it related to what is

under discussion. Perhaps I have missed many

> mails and am not able to get

the context. Trying to command God is

> *BLACK MAGIC* and this is

detestable to say the least. The attitude should

> always be that of a beggar in

front of God. If anyone has said otherwise, I

> also disagee with him/her.

I mentioned the above with respect

to the need of thousands of mantras and technicalities. If one does not

want to command god and wants to be a beggar who will take whatever is

given, there is no need for thousands of mantras and all the umpteen

technicalities. These thousands of mantras and umpteen

technicalities are for commanding thousands of

different results from god. That is why I talked of commanding vs begging.

However, this commanding works slightly differently than one may imagine.

I will elaborate.

Also, commanding god is NOT black

magic. Commanding low level beings is black magic, which can be

accomplished even by a person not quite elevated spiritually and

suffering from a heavy ego. However, commanding higher beings such as

gods is possible only for a spiritually elevated person with no or

extremely small ego. This commanding that I am referring to is not an

egoistic achievement. In fact, an egoist cannot achieve it. Only a person

succeeding in completely effacing individual ego can achieve this

commanding! I will repeat something from the previous mail to clarify:

The universe has many lokas (planes

of consciousness) , many beings and many objects. There are infinite

karmic interactions possible between them. Accordingly, there are

infinite possible mantras. When one is able to perfectly control the mind

and *fill it* with a mantra (i.e. no thoughts but the mantra

reverberating in the mind constantly), then one experiences the mantra.

This perfect absorption of self-awareness in the mantra then causes

internal changes by the flow of energy internally in specific ways

(specific to the mantra) and that causes corresponding external changes

in the universe and corresponding karmic interactions between various

objects.

Each set of " karmic

interactions between various objects " is a " result " .

Various mantras are for various " results " . One may term merging

self-awareness in a mantra fully and getting a specific result from it as

" commanding a result " from god. Whether you like the term or

not, it is essentially that.

*

* *

But the bottomline is this: Only a

highly purified sadhaka of very low ego can command specific results from

god (not for selfishness or even ego satisfaction, but acting as an

unattached instrument of Nature fulfilling one's dharma set by

Nature). Various mantras and technicalities of mantra shastra taught by

rishis are meant for such sadhakas.

Those are hardly of use to so many

people out there with dense egos seeking specific selfish results. They

cannot command specific results from god (because of their heavy

attachment to the result, which is in turn due to their own attachment to

a limited ego), even if they use all the techniques of mantra shastra and

all the associated rules of astrology. Instead of wasting their time with

these technicalities, they will be better off learning to be good beggars

at God's door.

Just pick any prasiddha mantra or a

mantra you feel attracted to, without worrying about so many

technicalities, and learn to be humble and surrender to the Lord.

Patiently wait for him to give you what you want. Like a beggar, take

whatever and whenever he gives.

Keep praying every day or every

second when you are able to. Even when you are not praying, remember him

in all of your actions. When you enjoy something in the material world, tell

yourself that it is his and that he gave it to you. If you remember

him all the time, slowly the dirt in your mind will start to get cleaned.

This fixing of attitude is faaaaaaaaaaaar more important than picking the

right mantra, right weekday, right tithi etc (that too based on

unreliable knowledge coming from questionable sources!).

*

* *

There may be a mountain with

thousands of paths (mantra) for climbing it. Each path may lead to a

different spot (different experience) on the top and show a different

scenery (result). Expert advisors (astrologers) may tell you to use a

specific path (mantra) to see a specific scenery (result). But such advice

is useless to a handicapped person without legs (a selfish person with

dense ego). It is relevant only to person with legs and one who is strong

and sturdy, who can successfully climb the mountain (a reasonably

detached person with very little ego).

Even when you encounter a person who

has legs and can actually climb the mountain, the stress should be on how

to climb the mountain and traverse the long path, rather than which path

to take. The astrologers who are bogged down by all the technicalities

and people who take customized mantra advice from astrologers and think

that they will get a result quickly by doing that 'powerful' mantra are

missing the basic point. The power of a powerful mantra is with respect

to the experience and result obtained *after* one succeeds with

the mantra. A partcicularly powerful mantra is akin to a path leading to

a point atop the mountain where the view shows a particularly beautiful

scenery. But the bottomline is that you do have to survive the climb

along the long path.

We need to emphasize the attitude

and approach needed for the long climb, rather than emphasizing the

choice of the path based on horoscope. It is worth noting that so many

great spiritual teachers who came in the last century or two did not

emphasize picking the right mantra based on horoscope etc. Instead, they

emphasized having the correct attitude - surrender, submission, devotion,

patience, persistence, discipline, humility etc!!!! *That*

is a lot more important and useful than trying to be oversmart with the

choice of mantra, day etc and impress god.

*

* *

> when should the worship of a

graha be done? Let us say someone

> wishes to worship Mars (Mangala

graha). When do you think this

> worship should be done?

You can do anyday. Parasara does not

mention any day for doing homam to a graha.

In fact, if one wants, one can do a

homam or worship to Mars (or any planet) every day. It is even

better that way.

If an astrologer suggests doing it

on a Tuesday, it is fine. But saying that doing it on so and so day will

bring serious dangers because Mars is an enemy of so and so planet would

be stretching things.

> [sanjay Rath:] Where do you

think Veda Vyasa (Krishna dvaipaayana) got his

> knowledge and those who wrote

it as scribes for him, where did they get it from?

From Self - from within. That

is the source of all knowledge. A sadguru need not specifically

teach thousand things, but needs to open the door inside.

*

* *

> OK, just spell it out. What is

the reason for Gandanta being in 0 deg,

> 120 deg and 240 deg of the

zodiac if it is not a junction between agni

> and jala...I want to her your

words if you have any.

Parasara's definition of gandanta is

restricted to two neighboring areas in a contiguous space having a

predominance of fire and water elements. " I see fire and I see

water. So there is gandanta " is a wrong approach. One can then call

Venus, a watery planet, being in a fiery sign or Mars, a fiery planet, being

in a watery sign as gandanta. Gandanta requires a *transition* in a

contiguous space.

In your example of upapada lord's

tithi, there is no contiguous space where there is a water-fire

transition.

> Now somewhere you talked of

wasting time!!! Look what you are doing.

> You were asked to work on

Parashara by your Spiritual Master, and

> are you doing that? Me10, Ve7,

Ve6...good research but is that from

> Parashara?

Well, Me10, Ve7 etc theory is based

on marrying two different teachings of Parasara (bhava karakas and

special lagnas). I do not really consider it as my creation but as

understanding Parasara's teachings only.

Best regards,

Narasimha

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst

rologer.org/ tarpana

Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

---------

sohamsa@

..com, " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath wrote:

>

> om paramesthi gurave namah

>

> Dear Narasimha,

>

> I read this mail twice. OK, just spell it out. What is the reason

for Gandanta being in 0 deg, 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is

not a junction between agni and jala...I want to her your words if you

have any. You keep saying Parasara says so and yet there is nothing

forthcoming.

>

> The rashi is associated with the Aditya as the rashi come into

existence because of the Sun, which is the agni tattva. Vara is also agni

tattva among the panchanga of Jyotisha. That is why Vaara is related to

rashi. Karma has been advised in the vaara of the lords of the rashi or

the hora of the lords of the rashi related to a bhaava and for this

reason, fasting and other such karma related to rashi are also based on

this. [see Prashna Marga for details].

>

> Moon is the significator of the Aroodha. It is the *emotional

content* related to the maya manifestation of everything in life.

Suffering is caused as we do not fathom the karma associated that

resulted in suffering and fasting is a a means of self punishment and

correction related to the raashi where the aroodha is. Just as Agni has

the purity to burn the root of sin, fasting on vaara related to the UL is

surely going to cleanse the sins associated with the suffering in it.

While this may not give a 100% satisfaction as the *moon* content has not

been addressed, at least the initiation of the aroodha occurs and people

find their partners, get married and get along with life. Proof lies in

the pudding and with so many cases where people have fasted on UL days

and have got result, we have found faith in these teachings reinforced.

Why fast? Fasting on vaara is a means to correcting the flaw associated

with the raashi. Raashi is a quantity and hence it is related to the

material effects of the bhava and that is what people are looking for

when they come to th astrologer. You have done well to recall my

teachings in this Ã¢â‚¬â€œ remember what I taught Ã¢â‚¬â€œ Men should worship a

female deity and women shold worship a male deity for the UL fasting. I

wonder if they really follow this.

>

> Why not give fasting at night instead of day? Sun is always good for

the Upapada (Jaimini etc) and that is why we have limited this to day

fasting and not night fasting as well or 24 hour fast. This is my

interpolation. [ satisfied J ] Elders would have given long periods of

fast starting from the vaara, like keeping 21 days fast for the birth of

child! You think I should be doing that! You think anyone will lsiten.

Try it yourself before asking me to advise those hard penance kind of

fasts.

>

> Who says the Moon has nothing to do with the arudha. It is the

sustainer. Now people to an astrologer when they are looking for getting

married and hardly anyone comes these days asking for prolonging

marriage. Either they want to get into one or get out of one and into

another...astrologe rs these days are relegated to helping people make

these transitions painless and fast. Of course some have come and I have

not failed them. I have a ready shloka for this Ã¢â‚¬â€œ start from Taurus in

Hamsa gati:

>

> Gouri, Kaali, Uma, Bhadraa, Durga, Kanti, Saraswati

>

> Mangalaa, Vaishnavi, Lakshmi, Shivaa, Naraayani

>

> See I have them ready for the 12 signs in Hamsa Gati from the mool

trikona of Moon in hamsa gati

>

> Mantra Shastra is a very detailed work and includes mantra dosha etc.

It is very scientific and accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this.

>

> You talk of begging God vs commanding God? Now where did that come

from? How is it related to what is under discussion. Perhaps I have

missed many mails and am not able to get the context. Trying to command

God is *BLACK MAGIC* and this is detestable to say the least. The

attitude should always be that of a beggar in front of God. If anyone has

said otherwise, I also disagee with him/her.

>

> Prasiddha mantras always give result, even without initiation and

who knows how ready a person is for initation. So I prefer sticking to

prasiddha mantras with people who do not have initiations. This is there

in VRA also.

>

> I have some questions where I have doubts about what you say. It is

below your mail.

>

> With Warm Regards

>

> Sanjay Rath

>

> http://srath. com http://sohamsa. com http:// .org

>

> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India

>

> sohamsa@

..com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of Narasimha P.V.R.

Rao

> 15 February 2009 09:34

> sohamsa@

..com; Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

> Cc: vedic astrology@

. com;

> On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving

Points)

>

> Ã¯Â»Â¿ > Statement 1 is an arrogance that the entire Jyotisha

shastra is bogus

>

> > and has no relevance as the remedial measures prescribed by

>

> > Parasara and others to be done on specific days are irrlevant

and

>

> > not of much consequence.

>

> First of all, Parasara did *not* prescribe fasting on specific

weekdays or tithis based on any arudhas or houses in a chart.

>

> For doshas in birth chart or to get relief from planetary

afflictions or to get the blessings of planets, he suggested various

*homas* (fire rituals) and described how to perform them. His section on

remedial measures is full of various homas. I am not dismissing those

remedies taught by Parasara himself and I am in fact slowly preparing

manuals on them so that anybody can do them by themselves.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] what about the Puranas? Have you gone through the

Navagraha mantras given in the Garuda Purana and other puranic

literature?

>

> Parasara did *not* specify the weekday or tithi for most of these

homas (e.g. planetary homas). Only for homas for specific birth doshas

(e.g. Amavasya dosha or Moola dosha), he fixed the tithi or nakshatra

based on the dosha and the deity. But the days are not based on any house

or arudha in the chart.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] If Amavasya dosha is to be performed on Amavasya,

when should the worship of a graha be done? Let us say someone wishes to

worship Mars (Mangala graha). When do you think this worship should be

done?

>

> Thus, the principles I am questioning are *not* from Parasara.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] Where do you think Veda Vyasa (Krishna dvaipaayana)

got his knowledge and those who wrote it as scribes for him, where did

they get it from?

>

> Second, I said what I said in a *context*. People are mentioning

complicated principles that are not found in classics or works of rishis

and scaring people that performing austerities such as fasting on certain

days cause " danger to spouse " or " serious doshas " or

" insult to Vishnu " , based on horoscope. I find these principles

illogical and based on hasty thinking. There may be a little difference

between doing an austerity on different days, but my point is that it is

smaller compared to the difference between doing and not doing at all and

that doing it on a " wrong day " does not cause danger as being

suggested.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I am sorry. I missed the context and just saw some

mails that were forwarded to me amidst my writing. But them its always a

pleasure to talk to you as in that many many have benefitted, and that

includes us as well.

>

> Third, our shastras primarily talk about worshipping various deities

on various days, based on the energy of the *deity*. For worshipping a

certain deity, certain tithi or weekday or nakshatra is better than

others. This is based on the deity and irrespective of the person

worshipping. Let me give an analogy. If a rich man comes out with more

money to give to beggars on a specific day, a beggar is better off going

and begging on that day. Schedule and mood of the giver is more

important.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] ThatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s not right...at least people who read this

will think. LetÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s say Shiva worship on Mondays. Shiva is the pratyadhi

devata of the Sun and is not worshipped on Sundays but on Mondays. NOTE

Ã¢â‚¬â€œ a day after Sunday! Similarly Narayana is the pratyadhi devata of

Mercury and is worshipped on Thursdays instead of Wednesdays. NOTE Ã¢â‚¬â€œ

again a day after! So what happened to the energy equation? J

>

> Choosing the day of a remedy based on the deity is more important

and the variations based on individual horoscope are less important. I am

not saying there are no horoscopic variations. But they are smaller and,

more importantly, I question if they are actually well-understood by

astrologers today to apply *reliably*. I question over-emphasizing and

over-selling unreliable principles of questionable origin and scaring

people on that basis.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] To this I can agree as many have not understood even

the basics of Sanatana dharma! Some behave as if there is a battle going

on between Shiva and Vishnu Ã¢â‚¬â€œ itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s hilarious to see how these are

just attempts to convert Hinduism into a religion they have left rather

than trying to learn what Hinduism means. Being newly converted there is

a bellicose patriotism in them to prove their faith to the *new god* they

have found and every other God must be the devil in disguise!! It will

take years for many to learn that there is no devil. ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s a figment of

their imagination and whatever is devilish is the dark side of mankind

himself.

>

> *

* *

>

> > Statement 2 is an arrogance that the entire mantra shastra is

useless

>

> > and the RishiÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s were wasting time in giving so many

mantras for

>

> > the same devata, like say thousands of mantras for Vishnu or

Hanuman

>

> > when any one mantra would suffice. OR it is like saying that we

can

>

> > take paracetamol and pray that cancer is cured. I think I may

have to

>

> > write a book on Mantra Shastra to validate the teachings of the

vedic

>

> > seers.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I got your point here. ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s a good point.

>

> Now somewhere you talked of wasting time!!! Look what you are doing.

You were asked to work on Parashara by your Spiritual Master, and are you

doing that? Me10, Ve7, Ve6...good research but is that from Parashara?

>

> I also know what argument you will give me - J You will say I am

already working on that and have some spare time to do this as well...to

which I will have nothing to say.

>

-

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

sohamsa@ .com

; Narasimha

P.V.R. Rao

Cc: vedic astrology@

. com ; @ .

com

Saturday, February 14, 2009 11:03 PM

On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving

Points)

Dear Sanjay,

> Since you do not have any real

definition of Gandanta, I am dropping that

I do have a definition of gandanta,

which is Parasara's definition in BPHS.

Since some of you are extrapolating

it based on the fire embodied in UL and water embodied in tithis, the

onus is on you to outline and justify your definition. I got into

this thread because statements were made that fasting on particular

weekdays or tithis in a chart can cause " insult to Vishnu " ,

" serious doshas " and " danger to spouse " , based on

these far-fetched extrapolations of gandanta.

> Which is perfectly in line with

everything I have learnt.

Well, you once taught that houses

represent Sun/Shiva/truth and arudhas represent Moon/Gouri/percepti on.

That was meaningful. Now, you associated UL, an arudha, with Sun and fire

and 12th, a house, with Gouri and water. I question whether the new

theory on fasting is really in line with everything you have learnt (and

taught).

BTW, I specifically asked for a

clarification on whether this was based on your own thinking or from

classics/parampara (see quoted mail below for the full context). Like so

many times with similar questions I asked privately and recently

publicly, you did not respond.

*

* *

> Statement 1 is an arrogance

that the entire Jyotisha shastra is bogus

> and has no relevance as the

remedial measures prescribed by

> Parasara and others to be done

on specific days are irrlevant and

> not of much consequence.

First of all, Parasara did *not*

prescribe fasting on specific weekdays or tithis based on any arudhas or

houses in a chart.

For doshas in birth chart or to get

relief from planetary afflictions or to get the blessings of planets, he

suggested various *homas* (fire rituals) and described how to

perform them. His section on remedial measures is full of various homas.

I am not dismissing those remedies taught by Parasara himself and I am in

fact slowly preparing manuals on them so that anybody can do them by

themselves.

Parasara did *not* specify

the weekday or tithi for most of these homas (e.g. planetary homas). Only

for homas for specific birth doshas (e.g. Amavasya dosha or Moola dosha),

he fixed the tithi or nakshatra based on the dosha and the deity. But the

days are not based on any house or arudha in the chart.

Thus, the principles I am

questioning are *not* from Parasara.

Second, I said what I said in a *context*.

People are mentioning complicated principles that are not found in

classics or works of rishis and scaring people that performing

austerities such as fasting on certain days cause " danger to

spouse " or " serious doshas " or " insult to

Vishnu " , based on horoscope. I find these principles illogical and

based on hasty thinking. There may be a little difference between doing

an austerity on different days, but my point is that it is smaller

compared to the difference between doing and not doing at all and that

doing it on a " wrong day " does not cause danger as being

suggested.

Third, our shastras primarily talk

about worshipping various deities on various days, based on the energy of

the *deity*. For worshipping a certain deity, certain tithi or

weekday or nakshatra is better than others. This is based on the deity

and irrespective of the person worshipping. Let me give an analogy. If a

rich man comes out with more money to give to beggars on a specific day,

a beggar is better off going and begging on that day. Schedule and mood

of the giver is more important.

Choosing the day of a remedy based

on the deity is more important and the variations based on individual

horoscope are less important. I am not saying there are no horoscopic

variations. But they are smaller and, more importantly, I question

if they are actually well-understood by astrologers today to apply *reliably*.

I question over-emphasizing and over-selling unreliable principles of

questionable origin and scaring people on that basis.

*

* *

> Statement 2 is an arrogance

that the entire mantra shastra is useless

> and the RishiÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s were wasting

time in giving so many mantras for

> the same devata, like say

thousands of mantras for Vishnu or Hanuman

> when any one mantra would

suffice. OR it is like saying that we can

> take paracetamol and pray that

cancer is cured. I think I may have to

> write a book on Mantra Shastra

to validate the teachings of the vedic

> seers.

I did not say it is

" useless " . Instead, I suggest that our ability to use it is

limited and we should take our limitations into consideration.

The universe has many lokas (planes

of consciousness) , many beings and many objects. There are infinite

karmic interactions possible between them. Accordingly, there are

infinite possible mantras. When one is able to perfectly control the mind

and *fill it* with a mantra (i.e. no thoughts but the mantra

reverberating in the mind constantly), then one experiences the mantra.

This perfect absorption of self-awareness in the mantra then causes

internal changes by the flow of energy internally in specific ways

(specific to the mantra) and that causes corresponding external changes in

the universe and corresponding karmic interactions between various

objects.

However, this variety of mantras,

experiences and results is irrelevant to one who does not have such

perfect control over the mind to absorb the mind fully in a mantra. It is

relevant only to a seer whose self-awareness is quite evolved and hence

control over mind impeccable. Such seers are extremely extremely rare

today. Most people are unable to experience any mantra and mantras do

not work for them as they are supposed to.

*

* *

Just repeating a combination of

sounds does not guarantee anything. Some people may think that certain

results come when they repeat a mantra certain number of times. That is

an incorrect notion. A mantra may work for one person quickly and another

may spend the whole life chanting it and nothing may happen. Absorption

of the entire mind into a mantra is needed for a mantra to really work

and it is much more difficult than one may think.

*

* *

A highly learned scholar in the

court of a king may be able to command the king and get whatever he wants

from king. An incapable one is better off begging the king, rather than

trying to command (and failing for sure).

Similarly, most people are better off

begging god for what they want rather than trying to use the right mantra

to command what they want. A beggar does not need a huge vocabulary or

great scholarship or knowledge. Feeling of

humility and helplessness, surrender, patience and persistence are

what help a beggar succeed. A beggar needs the right attitude rather than

knowledge. In this age and time, best bet for most people is to

learn to be a good beggar at god's door.

What people today need for

material and spiritual progress through remedial measures is a better

attitude in begging god rather than a better choice of tools such as

mantras and other specifics such as weekday, tithi etc to command a

specific result from god.

It is worth noting that so many

great spiritual teachers who came in the last century or two did not

emphasize picking the right mantra based on horoscope etc. Instead, they

emphasized having the correct attitude - surrender, submission, devotion,

patience, persistence, discipline, humility etc. *That* is

a lot more important and useful than trying to be oversmart with the

choice of mantra, day etc and impress god.

*

* *

One more thing. We have many mantras

given by rishis, but the guidelines from rishis like Parasara on how

to pick a mantra based on the horoscope are very limited. Astrologers

today do not operate solely based on them. They use all kinds of other

rules coming from various traditions. They are not free from corruption

and imperfection. Most scriptures associate various mantras with various

results, irrespective of horoscope. For example, irrespective of who is

the 6th lord and 8th lord and lord of A6 and A8, Rina Vimochaka Angaraka

mantra is good for debt control. And so on. Linking of horoscope is

overplayed by today's astrologers, way beyond the scope of Parasara's

guidelines.

If one has a sadguru, I recommend

following the word of sadguru rather than that of an astrology

theoretician.

If not, there is no foolproof way to

know the right path. Pick any path (given by an astrologer or one that

you feel attracted to) instead of wasting time and then keep working on

your attitude. The latter is the key. As I said earlier, learn to be a

humble beggar at god's door. Choice of Mantra is secondary and attitude

is primary. If you succeed in being a really humble beggar, you stand a

better chance of success than great scholars.

Any prasiddha mantra (e.g.

ashtakshari, panchakshari, dwadasakshari, navakshari, vishnu sahasranaam,

rudram, hare krishna maha mantra, chandipath, ganapati atharva seersham,

mrityunjaya mantra etc) can help one make progress if one develops

the right attitude. Without the right attitude, even an impeaccably

picked mantra will do nothing.

*

* *

I hope this sufficiently clarifies

my stand. I discuss these matters related to spiritual sadhana more on

the . Some writings are sampled at http://www.vedicast

rologer.org/ homam/writings. htm.

Best regards,

Narasimha

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana

Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

------------ --------- --------- ---------

--------- --------- ---------

om paramesthi gurave namah

Dear Narasimha,

Since you do not have any real

definition of Gandanta, I am dropping that and continue with my belief of

the junction between Agni and Jala rasi as the case of gandanta and the

loka junctions. Which is perfectly in line with everything I have learnt.

Two statements you have made

contradict standard texts on Jyotish and Mantra Shastra. Please correct

me if I am not understanding you well out here -

1. Statement 1: *fasting on any

day or any tithi* is good so long as the sankalpa has been made for the

devata you intend to pray to. Results maybe a bit delayed but will be

there.

2. Statement 2: *reciting any prayer* will give the desired effects

for any ailment we wish to remedy

Is this what you intended to say or

did I get this wrong?

Statement 1 is an arrogance that the

entire Jyotisha shastra is bogus and has no relevance as the remedial

measures prescribed by Parasara and others to be done on specific days

are irrlevant and not of much consequence. This sounds like another

astrologer I had known some time back whose statements like this coerced

me to write Vedic Remedies in Astrology so that people are not misled but

such pretexts to knowledge.

Statement 2 is an arrogance that the

entire mantra shastra is useless and the RishiÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s were wasting time in

giving so many mantras for the same devata, like say thousands of mantras

for Vishnu or Hanuman when any one mantra would suffice. OR it is like

saying that we can take paracetamol and pray that cancer is cured. I

think I may have to write a book on Mantra Shastra to validate the

teachings of the vedic seers.

I think there is something wrong in

the way you are saying what you want to say. Please rethink and correct

your statements for the sake of good record in this list.

With Warm Regards

Sanjay Rath

http://srath. com http://sohamsa. com http:// .org

15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New

Delhi, 110060, India

-

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

sohamsa@ .com

Sunday, February 08, 2009 12:03 PM

Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING

Namaste Sanjay and

friends,

My answers are in red and

prefixed with " [Narasimha] " .

<<<<<<

Begin quote <<<<<<

> > >> tithi.

The basic point is that Upapada is a rashi and carries energy

> > >> of Vara or day. If you fast on the day ruled by tithi

of the 2nd

> > >> lord, you are bringing the jala energy to vara, and

gandanta may

> > >> occur, and spouse may come into a danger. So, what is

the way out.

>

> Why does a rashi carry the energy of vaara only and not that of the

tithi???? Why does rashi represent vaara or fire?

>

> [sanjay Rath:] Because Raashi were created by Surya and for doing so

Surya took 12 forms called the Dvadasa Aditya...Narasimha you ask this??

What is happening?

>

> After all, Rudra rules over the element of fire and Gouri rules over

the element of water and one worships Gouri at the time of marriage.

Moreover, Venus (water) is the karaka for marriage. So one could even say

that UL/marriage is represented by water element and fasting on UL lord's

tithi brings the element of water (prosperity and well-being) to one's

marriage (UL)? One could even say that fasting on the weekday of UL lord

should be prohibited as it brings the fire element represented by weekday

to the water of UL and causes " gandanta " !

>

> [sanjay Rath:] UL is the Maya and is associated with the Raashi

Narasimha. It is the 12L which is the creator of the UL...just as the

mother Gouri creates everything through the shakti of the graha, all the

arudha are created by her due to the lordships of the planets. So fasting

on the tithi lorded by the 12th lord will be a *more correct* answer.

>>>>>>

End quote >>>>>>

[Narasimha] We always say

that houses (truth) are represented by Sun (aatman) and arudha padas

(maya) by Moon (mind).

Thus, 12th house is the

actual creator and UL is the apparent creator in the field of maya.

Houses (truth) should actually be associated with Sun (aatman) and Shiva

(and not Gouri), while arudha padas (perception) should actually be

associated with Moon (mind) and Gouri. After all, that is what we do in

the tripod method in dasa judgment.

Thus, it is actually more

logical to say that 12th house and 12th lord imbibe the agni tattva of

Sun and UL and UL lord imbibe the jala tattva of Moon.

Is the above " *more

correct* answer " based on your own thinking or is it from a classic

or from tradition?

<<<<<<

Begin quote <<<<<<

> The mantra one meditates with at the

end of a day's fasting is far more effective than at other times. The

conservation of energy otherwise spent on digestion or speech will enable

far more effective mantra meditation. So fast or keep mouna and then

meditate with a mantra, to maximize the effect of the mantra.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I do not agree with this. Correct eating is the best

blessing for good mantra practise. On days when one fasts the mind is

troubled by hunger causing the stomach to burn and churn and this

disturbs mantra japa. Correct eating (alpa aahaara) is many many times

better than complete fasting.

>>>>>>

End quote >>>>>>

[Narasimha] Well, if one

cannot fast, then one is destined to expend some energy on digestion

after all and not focus all energy on the mantra. But the bottomline is

that shastras say that one should meditate either without or with very

little food (niraahaaro mitaahaaro). In any case, I hope we agree that

meditation sessions after heavy eating are heavily restrained in

effectiveness.

<<<<<<

Begin quote <<<<<<

> Seriously, however,

this kind of stretching of gandanta concepts is quite illogical.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] It is not stretching ... it is the very definition of

gandanta Ã¢â‚¬â€œ the interface between fire and water. Put a burning match in

a glass of water, the fire dies...There are other GandaÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s in the chart

but they are not anta (ends). Take Chitra ganda between Kanya and Tula.

>>>>>>

End quote >>>>>>

[Narasimha] Putting a

burning match in a glass of water does indeed kill fire. But the

question is of contact. If I am thinking of fire in my mind while

standing in water, it does not kill the fire. There is no contact.

My point is that the

examples given have no real identifiable contact between water and fire.

One can be creative and

come up with a lot of theories. For example, one can say that Moon and

Venus are jala tattva and all rasis show agni tattva (then why are some

rasis marked as agni rasis and some as water rasis etc) and hence the

sign occupied by Moon and Venus cause contact between water and fire.

Then one can say fasting on the weekdays of the dispositors of Moon and

Venus causes gandanta and serious danger.

It is not enough to show

some fire and some water. See what counts as contact. Otherwise, one will

engage in illogical extrapolations.

<<<<<<

Begin quote <<<<<<

> Three years back you

said you are leaving jyotish....then again you told me two years back and

again recently that you are leaving jyotish. Now it is getting very

evident that *jyotish is

leaving you*. The

knowledge of Jyotish is PERFECT Ã¢â‚¬â€œ individuals embody it in different

levels of their understanding and intelligence.

>>>>>>

End quote >>>>>>

[Narasimha] Nothing is

permanent. What is one's cannot be taken away. And one cannot cling on to

what is not one's. Some rejoice when it seems like something comes and

cry when it seems like something leaves. Some impassionately observe as

things seem to come and go and do what they see as their dharma with the

things they seem to have.

Just a factual correction though

: I never said I was

leaving Jyotish. For a few years after my spiritual master entered my

life, my interest in other things went down (though I continued to do

other things) and my focus on spiritual sadhana intensified. So I said

that my interest in Jyotish was very low. However, my guru gave me a task

later. He wanted me to study the teachings of Parasara

independently, meditate on them and share my interpretations

with the world. He said I was very passionate in my Jyotish

activities earlier, and he wanted me to do the same now but

dispassionately and without an attachment. He felt that I still have a

contribution to make to Jyotish and wants me to do it as an

unattached karma. His word is everything for me.

What I told you recently

is not that I was leaving Jyotish but what I said above.

However, if your judgment is correct

and if Jyotish is indeed " leaving " me, I am sure my

spiritual guru will realize it sooner or later and change his command to

me.

<<<<<<

Begin quote <<<<<<

> I can categorically

declare one thing with utmost confidence. You pick any weekday or tithi

and take a vow to fast or do mouna vrata (remain silent) on that weekday

or tithi and meditate with a particular mantra (any) at the end of the

day. You can take a vow to keep that practice for a certain duration of

time (say, a few months or years) for a specific purpose. Take a vow and

keep the vrata for the duration. If brahmacharya can be kept for the

duration of the vrata, there is nothing like it!

>

> [sanjay Rath:] This is a fine statement but then you seem to

be saying that the Puranas and other teachings of the seers is of not

much relevance. Of course you are right as it will be spiritually

beneficial. For example, a person wishing to marry should not fast on UL

days and should choose any day (all days are the same) or any tithi (all

tithi are the same) and start fasting and do a mantra (any mantra!!) and

then in a few days, or (maybe) a few months (or maybe) a few years ... or

maybe (what you did not say), a few lifetimes, the marriage will happen!

I cannot say you are wrong, so I agree that what you say is right.

>>>>>>

End quote >>>>>>

[Narasimha] This is a

gross exaggeration.

Is all that is being

taught and practiced now strictly from " Puranas and other teachings

of the seers " ?

I did not say all days and tithis are the

same. Of course, there is some difference. But, it is not as big as being

made here.

To make khoa, whether one uses cow milk or

buffalo milk or milk of a brown cow or a black cow or a Jersey cow or

another cow does make some difference. But it is secondary. To say that

" danger " and " serious doshas " (see the quoted mails

for such claims) can be caused by a wrong choice is wrong. To say

that a wrong choice means khoa will take 100 years to make is also a

gross exaggeration.

The main thing is that you need milk and

sugar. If one is confused by endless claims of khoa making consultants

and ends up not making khoa at all, that will be sad. In such a case, one

can simply pick some milk or the other, take sugar and start

cooking khoa. It will take an extra half hour, but the job will be done.

I request Jyotishis to behave responsibly

and humbly and not engage in scare-mongering and say that a speicifc

austerity (fasting on a specific weekday or tithi in a chart) can

cause " danger " and " serious doshas " . No wonder some

spiritual teachers look down upon Jyotish and dismiss it. Such unbalanced

attitude and self-importance from us does not help our cause!

Yes, Jyotish is helpful, but let us not

oversell it or overplay the importance.. .

<<<<<<

Begin quote <<<<<<

> Gem stones may harm

when used incorrectly. But, austerities like prayers, fasting, mouna

vrata and brahmacharya will NEVER do you any harm. If your body can take

fasting, you can do it on any weekday or tithi without too many

calculations.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] Brahmacharya is good for someone planning to have a

baby or one who cannot conceive and this is kept for some period before

the appointed date of nisheka. Brahmacharya is good for marriage?! I

think you are mistaking abstinence from physical union as Brahmacharya.

Oh no its so different.

>>>>>>

End quote >>>>>>

[Narasimha] Of course,

brahmacharya is much more, but also very difficult for most. Even

physical celibacy is a good enough austerity. Physical celibacy over an

extended period of time increases the efficacy of other austerities such

as fasting, mouna vrata, meditation and homam.

Best regards,

Narasimha

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst

rologer.org/ tarpana

Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

---------

sohamsa@

..com, " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath wrote:

>

> om paramesthi gurave namah

>

> Dear Narasimha

>

> Just added a few thoughts and questions since we are on the topic of

spirituality, which is not my forte. So I am always seeking to learn.

>

> With Warm Regards

>

> Sanjay Rath

>

> http://srath. com http://sohamsa. com http:// .org

>

> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India

>

> sohamsa@

..com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR

Rao

> 06 February 2009 00:48

> sohamsa@

..com

> Cc: @

. com

> Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING

>

> Namaste friends,

>

> I would like to express my reservations on a couple of issues. It is

funny that I should be typing this email on an Ekadashi day, when many

Vaishnavas fast irrespective of their horoscopes.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I write on dvadasi when so many vasihnava also fast

and keep great austerities. J Any difference?

>

> > >> Here is my point and view about the question raised.

2nd bhava is

> > >> the bhava of Vishnu, sustainer, and if we fast on the

day of UL in

> > >> 2nd house, we bring insult to Vishnu who provides the

food for us.

>

> My dear Zoran, please allow me to express my disagreement.

>

> Austerities can never be seen as an insult to Vishnu.

Self-deprivation of 2nd house matters such as food (fasting) or speech

(mouna vrata - vow of silence) are austerities. Giving up food or speech

is not an insult to Vishnu just as giving up sex (i.e. brahmacharya) is

not an insult to Sukracharya (Venus).

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I though Brahma was very angry that his sons decided

not to have progeny and stayed celibate. So He created others. Why was

Brahma angry when his sons remained celibate? Why should Sukracharya be

angry if someone is celibate? How is it an insult or not an insult to

Sukracharya? You are taking planet signification of Venus for 7H ...and

linking this to creation process...which is wrong Narasimha. Brahma is

seen from lords of dusthana 6, 8 and 12 from lagna or 7th which is....you

know this.There is nothing wrong with the 7th house as it is necessary

for procreation. It is only the link of this with the Brahma graha that

causes it to become a serious shad-ripu. Married people are as eligible

for moksha as unmarried ones and bachelors. It depends on the following

of dharma and ashrama.

>

> Various gods bestow various things on us, some at the gross physical

level and some at the subtle spiritual level. As we overcome our

dependendency on gross things, we make progress at the subtle level.

>

> If one eats food, a good amount of internal fire (and subtle

internal energy associated with it) is used for digesting it and for

generating physical energy from it. If one fasts, that subtle energy is

unused and available for other things. This is a tremendous benefit. As a

result, one can better digest mantras and spiritual food available all

around one.

>

> The mantra one meditates with at the end of a day's fasting is far

more effective than at other times. The conservation of energy otherwise

spent on digestion or speech will enable far more effective mantra

meditation. So fast or keep mouna and then meditate with a mantra, to

maximize the effect of the mantra.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I do not agree with this. Correct eating is the best

blessing for good mantra practise. On days when one fasts the mind is

troubled by hunger causing the stomach to burn and churn and this

disturbs mantra japa. Correct eating (alpa aahaara) is many many times

better than complete fasting.

>

> > >> However, to be honest, I have not heard this about 2nd

lord and

> > >> tithi. The basic point is that Upapada is a rashi and

carries energy

> > >> of Vara or day. If you fast on the day ruled by tithi

of the 2nd

> > >> lord, you are bringing the jala energy to vara, and

gandanta may

> > >> occur, and spouse may come into a danger. So, what is

the way out.

>

> Why does a rashi carry the energy of vaara only and not that of the

tithi???? Why does rashi represent vaara or fire?

>

> [sanjay Rath:] Because Raashi were created by Surya and for doing so

Surya took 12 forms called the Dvadasa Aditya...Narasimha you ask this??

What is happening?

>

> After all, Rudra rules over the element of fire and Gouri rules over

the element of water and one worships Gouri at the time of marriage.

Moreover, Venus (water) is the karaka for marriage. So one could even say

that UL/marriage is represented by water element and fasting on UL lord's

tithi brings the element of water (prosperity and well-being) to one's

marriage (UL)? One could even say that fasting on the weekday of UL lord

should be prohibited as it brings the fire element represented by weekday

to the water of UL and causes " gandanta " !

>

> [sanjay Rath:] UL is the Maya and is associated with the Raashi

Narasimha. It is the 12L which is the creator of the UL...just as the

mother Gouri creates everything through the shakti of the graha, all the

arudha are created by her due to the lordships of the planets. So fasting

on the tithi lorded by the 12th lord will be a *more correct* answer.

>

> Seriously, however, this kind of stretching of gandanta concepts is

quite illogical.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] It is not stretching ... it is the very definition of

gandanta Ã¢â‚¬â€œ the interface between fire and water. Put a burning match in

a glass of water, the fire dies...There are other GandaÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s in the chart

but they are not anta (ends). Take Chitra ganda between Kanya and Tula.

>

> Now one more thing: Marriage is a yoga between two souls and why not

suggest fasting on the yoga day of the UL lord?

>

> [sanjay Rath:] What! What a brilliant suggestion.. .why donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t you

start it?

>

> * * *

>

> > Now suppose instead of 11th house if Mercury goes to 12th house

or 4

> > house then you cannot choose Dwadashi or Chaturthi for the same

> > because these thithis are ruled by Mercury only and fasting on

these

> > tithis will create serious doshas.

>

> Picking tithi based on house (12th house - Dwadashi, 4th house -

Chaturthi) is illogical as there are 12 houses only and more tithis.

> I have realized one thing over the years - If something is not

structurally sound, it is most likely false knowledge.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] J No comments

>

> * * *

>

> I can categorically declare one thing with utmost confidence. You

pick any weekday or tithi and take a vow to fast or do mouna vrata

(remain silent) on that weekday or tithi and meditate with a particular

mantra (any) at the end of the day. You can take a vow to keep that

practice for a certain duration of time (say, a few months or years) for

a specific purpose. Take a vow and keep the vrata for the duration. If

brahmacharya can be kept for the duration of the vrata, there is nothing like

it!