On Remedial Measures Difference (Resolving Points)

March 4, 2009

Hi Rajarshi,

I too agree with what you say, and isnt it a fact that there are equal chances

of being misguided by someone who thinks is very advanced spiritually and makes

one believe so?

There is no guarantee to anything. Sometimes one has to move by one's own sense

of judgement of what one has to follow - whether it comes from a jyotishi or so

called spiritual guru or a medicine prescribed by a doctor. Even that (one's

sense of judgement) may turn out to be not so right.

Everything has a limitation.

So even a common man may be bewildered going from text to text which claim one

deity to be superior to the rest while others claim 'That It is Not'.... until

one realises The Truth.

If one finds and is able to follow/prescribe the real or correct thing, then one

is truly blessed, so must we pray to the Almighty that we may find/be/give (as

the case may be): the right jyotishi, the right guru, the right doctor, the

right remedy, the right insight.... :-)

Best Regards,

SS

sohamsa , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 wrote:

>

> Dear SS

>

> I quite agree with your mail. And I am not saying that prescribing a mantra by

jyotish is incorrect. Of course not.

>

> However, the point of discussion is mainting of a balance, and not over

stretching anything. The rules of mantra shastra are good and solid, but the

idea is if in the process of judging the best rule for the best mantra for the

best time and best direction etc ec, ones mind gets over-awed by so many

parameters and loses out on the necessary discipline/ground work required for

making any mantra work, what is the use of that then? The question is one of

degree.

>

> What is the gaurantee that the due to some reason or the other the jyotish has

not made a mistake in the mantra shastra calculations and given an incorrect

mantra? Mahamaya can delude anyone. I am just stating a theoritical yet very

practical possibility. So what is a practical insurance against such a chance?

Jyotish is perfect. Mantra-shastra is perfect. But jyotishis are not

always perfect, like any other human being. I feel , a better insurance against

such realistic possiblities is to have a humble sense of surrender to the Deity

rather than raking the mind to extreme levels trying to figure out the best

possiblity without really being 100 percent sure that there will not be

a mistake (however slight) in the process.

>

> I will give a small practical example from my experience. I had been once

given a mantra by a person I respect a lot. I had never even heard of the deity

of that mantra before. I religiously chanted the mantra for nearly two years,

where as when I tried analysing the mantra using the rules of mantra shastra, I

found it is comes as manta that should ideally cause me harm. And yet it never

did anything like that. I still hang on that mantra. So obviously I must have

miscalculated or missed out some sub clause or something. Instead of chanting

the mantra directly, if I had known about these mantra shatra analysis

techniques then and tried it with my imperfect knowledge, I may have never

ventured into chanting the mantra.

>

> So in the end, I am not saying mantras for remedies are useless. Of course

not. But rather than over emphasis on high level subtle rules which have an

equal chance of being miscalculated, a change in attitude (even for an average

short-term gain mantra) may be of more practical use.

>

> -Regards

> Rajarshi

>

> The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra

>

> --- On Wed, 4/3/09, Soul Sadhak <soulsadhak wrote:

>

> Soul Sadhak <soulsadhak

> On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)

> sohamsa

> Wednesday, 4 March, 2009, 1:50 PM

Yes Rajarshi, your are right regarding theory and application of it. Yet,

everyone may not be having the same spiritual insight or have done the same

ground work as you say or have the same understanding of the process. But

atleast there is hope that out of all those who seek fast remedies through

mantras, there would be atleast some that may get to have a veiw of that spark

of the universal consciousness may be even for a brief span (span = here

attention/awareness becomes more important than the time) and some, out of those

few, may be instigated/inspired to make a move towards realising that Truth,

while some may be those who find once again the connection they lost from

previous birth - you never know...all those who come to seek the remedies may

not become qualified jet pilots at one go (of course with rigorous training) -

but atleast learn to drive some vehicle or the other and learn more about how to

improve their driving skills if the inner drive

> comes through...and if they dont, well, it is their level of spiritual growth

- isn't it? may be they even end up calling the astrologer as incompetent - who

is to blame?

>

> 2 people reading the same (spiritual) text may interpret it differently and

argue about it's meaning, while the Zen master may hit their head with the

proverbial stick and tell them that " the tao that can be described in words is

not the real tao " .

>

> Does that mean that all (spiritual) text is invalid?

> The answer is " yes " AND " no " ...or may be even " Neither " .

> That is because it depends on the relativity of the observer's locus.

>

> I would just quote Bharat again here, as he's already said it:

> " Most people do not use the above approach, they want specific

> remedies for their specific problems and that too quickly. The

> Mantra Shastra helps both approaches. For the students, I think it

> is this part they should learn as Jyotishas and the above part shall

> come automatically with their spiritual " growth " and understanding. "

>

> Best Regards,

> SS

>

> sohamsa@ .com, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > Dear SS

> >

> > Correct. The idea is one of practical application and one of theoritical

discussion. As you rightly mentioned easier said than done. The question is why

is it easier said than done, that is because unless one is ready to follow at

least some parts of the rules, disciples and as Narasimha says, the idea of

humility (being a begger), most mantras wont work in teh short span inspite of

following all theoritical rules. Unless you are already a " ready " canditate with

all the " ground work " having already been done.

> >

> > I have come across people using plenty of mantras for very short purposes

and yet not achieving any results at all. Whereas there are those who can use

specific mantras for specific purposes and achive such results. What is the

difference? The " ground work " . is the difference I feel.

> >

> > -Regards

> > Rajarshi

> >

> > The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra

> >

> > --- On Wed, 4/3/09, Soul Sadhak <soulsadhak@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > Soul Sadhak <soulsadhak@ ...>

> > On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)

> > sohamsa@ .com

> > Wednesday, 4 March, 2009, 12:35 PM

> >

> > " For those who seek the truth, the mantra japa serves as a constant reminder

of the what the Truth is. For those how seek certain ends from it, they gain

only that much. "

> > " Mantra Shastra helps both approaches. "

> >

> > thanx Bharat.

> >

> > dear all,

> >

> > If we understands this, it will bring much peace.

> > else repeat OMmmmmmm.... ..and 'become' the SILENCE....isnt that the end to

all troubles? Easier said than done.

> >

> > Best regards,

> > SS

> >

> > >

> > > On Mar 4, 2009, at 12:24 AM, Bharat - Hindu Astrology <astrologyhindu@ ...

> > > > wrote:

> > >

> > > > Namaste Sundeep

> > > >

> > > > Please pardon my intervention. Hindus are not idol worshipers. And

> > > > it is the Hindus who know that Lord only is. They do not use the

> > > > word " one " , since " one " presupposes " two " and " three " ... and so on.

> > > > Since Lord only is, the entirety is contained within in including

> > > > all time, space and causation. Every object, every being is

> > > > contained within the Lord. For an untrained mind, it is difficult to

> > > > consume this. To focus one's attention to this principle he needs

> > > > something tangible. So an object that can signify this principle to

> > > > the person becomes an object of worship. Once this shape is given to

> > > > the object... it is never considered an Idol. It is worshipped as

> > > > God itself. Noone goes to the temple and says " Hey Idol, .... " ,

> > > > everyone fold their hands and say " Hey Krishna or Hey Rama or Hey

> > > > Shiva ..... " .

> > > >

> > > > The people who wrongly call hindus idol worshippers are themselves

> > > > worshipping the idols. What is a cross? What is a the book Koran or

> > > > the image of Mecca or the words " Allah Hu Akbar " inscribed on a

> > > > plate? These all are Idols. Aren't they?

> > > >

> > > > So long is there a world and realization does not dawn upon oneself,

> > > > one would need something to focus their mind with. This in our

> > > > scriptures have been suggested through various ways:

> > > >

> > > > 1. Shapes and Symbols

> > > > 2. Elements

> > > > 3. Upasanas: Observing the nature and relating it to the Truth. Like

> > > > endless is the space and time and relating the quality of endless to

> > > > the Truth.

> > > > 4. Mantra Japa- Herein the sound reverberates with the certain

> > > > element/aspect of nature. To that root is added our request. For

> > > > those who seek the truth, the mantra japa serves as a constant

> > > > reminder of the what the Truth is. For those how seek certain ends

> > > > from it, they gain only that much.

> > > >

> > > > Therefore Sundeep, I request you to study our culture more and you

> > > > shall find nothing that is sane and truthful missing from it.

> > > >

> > > > Sri Narasimha is suggesting that we do not command the Lord and

> > > > worship him undertaking any appealing mantra - which essentially

> > > > means that the more we understand its meaning the idea of the Lord

> > > > shall become clearer and clearer in our minds. This approach is for

> > > > spiritual aspirants who are willing to " let go themselves in the

> > > > hands of the lord " . This is something that one has to realize for

> > > > oneself and not impose on others. Furthermore, it should not be

> > > > called " begging " . There is no difference between the Lord and our

> > > > True Self. To call ourselves beggars is to defile us and Srimad

> > > > Bhagavad Gita warns against such a self judgement.

> > > >

> > > > Most people do not use the above approach, they want specific

> > > > remedies for their specific problems and that too quickly. The

> > > > Mantra Shastra helps both approaches. For the students, I think it

> > > > is this part they should learn as Jyotishas and the above part shall

> > > > come automatically with their spiritual " growth " and understanding.

> > > >

> > > > Hope this helps

> > > >

> > > > Thanks and Regards

> > > > Bharat

> > > >

> > > > On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 4:07 AM, vedicastrostudent <vedicastrostudent@

....

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > Dear Narasimhaji (and it might help others to read this fully too,

> > > > trust me you may well be satisfied),

> > > >

> > > > First, let me say I am not about to either agree/disagree with you. I

> > > > am only standing back and observing/categoriz ing your approach, and

> > > > comparing it historical events that will give me a sense of the final

> > > > import of your approach.

> > > >

> > > > If you read about Abraham, the supposed " father " of the three

> > > > religions (Christianity, Judaism and Islam) that have together had the

> > > > most following among all religions in the world (ever). As far as I

> > > > know, he lived in a time of deities and ritual. He is supposedly the

> > > > first to have actively sought to bring the notion of one God to the

> > > > masses. He destroyed idols much to the dissatisfaction of lots around

> > > > him. Apparently God revealed himself to Abraham several times.

> > > > Abraham submitted himself completely to the will of God, always,

> > > > without question. It seems logical to conclude that he destroyed and

> > > > denounced idolatry because he felt, at the very least, that focus on

> > > > the multiplicity of deity and webs of rituals took *away* a person's

> > > > focus from the real thing - submission to the one and only God (which

> > > > is what Abraham was really about i.e. submission to the one and only

> > > > God). Before jumping to any conclusions about what I am trying to say,

> > > > please read on.

> > > >

> > > > Me, I'm fascinated by religious psychology, i.e. what drives people to

> > > > believe in God and how. I *dont seek to denounce* either Abraham or

> > > > the idolaters (Hindus would obviously come to mind here), only to

> > > > understand them. The way I have found to unify these two seemingly

> > > > contradictory approaches is the following, and perhaps it will help

> > > > you as well: God is *eventually only one* of course and " resides " deep

> > > > within us, and projects himself (I use " project " in exactly the sense

> > > > Michal describes) in various ways into human experience. As people get

> > > > spiritually elevated, the projections become less necessary and they

> > > > are able to have a more and more direct experience of God.

> > > > Consequently, they start forgetting the role the projections

> > > > *originally had in the beginning of their path* and consider the most

> > > > important thing to be the complete submission to the *growing* inner

> > > > light of God within themselves.

> > > >

> > > > My feeling is that that is what happened to Abraham, and is what is

> > > > happening to you as well. Psychologically and astrologically speaking,

> > > > the examples you choose to illustrate your point betray your

> > > > psychology. You have unconsciously chosen an example of a mountain,

> > > > with the *final God experience* sitting on top. That final God

> > > > experience is the Sun, astrologically speaking i.e. the source, the

> > > > symbol of the growing inner light within *you*. The various paths to

> > > > the top that you talk about represent, I think, Mercury, with its

> > > > various forms and distinctions (Prithvi tattwa?). As you behold the

> > > > Sun, the king, in all his magnificence, everything else pales in

> > > > comparison. And sure enough, you start posting that all the paths are

> > > > unimportant :-)

> > > >

> > > > But see, not everyone is there yet, all the distinctions and dates and

> > > > rituals are important, because they will unerringly lead one there, as

> > > > they did for you. At least that's what I have gathered after listening

> > > > to Sanjayji and all the gurus on this group..

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Sundeep

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > Check out the all-new Messenger 9.0! Go to http://in.messenger ./

> >

>

Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to

http://messenger./invite/

>

March 4, 2009

Dear SS

If one finds and is able to follow/prescribe the real or correct thing, then one is truly blessed, so must we pray to the Almighty that we may find/be/give (as the case may be): the right jyotishi, the right guru, the right doctor, the right remedy, the right insight.... :-)

EXACTLY! That is the bottomline. The idea of surrenderance to God, humility towards Him/Her and serious prayer. This should be given far greater precedence and emphasis than any amount of rules. To be able to do that, one has to reduce his/her own ego. To be able to reduce ego, one has to do sadhana -. Therefore, the point is instead of bothering too much about rules, start off some sadhana so that it helps to give you some solid ground to stand on in this world which is otherwise replete with uncertainties at every level.

Isn't this logical and fair?

-Regards

Rajarshi

The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra--- On Wed, 4/3/09, Soul Sadhak <soulsadhak wrote:

Soul Sadhak <soulsadhak On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)sohamsa Date: Wednesday, 4 March, 2009, 6:08 PM

Hi Rajarshi,I too agree with what you say, and isnt it a fact that there are equal chances of being misguided by someone who thinks is very advanced spiritually and makes one believe so? There is no guarantee to anything. Sometimes one has to move by one's own sense of judgement of what one has to follow - whether it comes from a jyotishi or so called spiritual guru or a medicine prescribed by a doctor. Even that (one's sense of judgement) may turn out to be not so right. Everything has a limitation.So even a common man may be bewildered going from text to text which claim one deity to be superior to the rest while others claim 'That It is Not'.... until one realises The Truth. If one finds and is able to follow/prescribe the real or correct thing, then one is truly blessed, so must we pray to the Almighty that we may find/be/give (as the case may be): the right jyotishi, the right guru, the right doctor, the right remedy,

the right insight.... :-) Best Regards,SSsohamsa@ .com, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@ ...> wrote:>> Dear SS> > I quite agree with your mail. And I am not saying that prescribing a mantra by jyotish is incorrect. Of course not. > > However, the point of discussion is mainting of a balance, and not over stretching anything. The rules of mantra shastra are good and solid, but the idea is if in the process of judging the best rule for the best mantra for the best time and best direction etc ec, ones mind gets over-awed by so many parameters and loses out on the necessary discipline/ground work required for making any mantra work, what is the use of that then? The question is one of degree.>

> What is the gaurantee that the due to some reason or the other the jyotish has not made a mistake in the mantra shastra calculations and given an incorrect mantra? Mahamaya can delude anyone. I am just stating a theoritical yet very practical possibilit y. So what is a practical insurance against such a chance? Jyotish is perfect. Mantra-shastra is perfect. But jyotishis are not always perfect, like any other human being. I feel , a better insurance against such realistic possiblities is to have a humble sense of surrender to the Deity rather than raking the mind to extreme levels trying to figure out the best possiblity without really being 100 percent sure that there will not be a mistake (however slight) in the process.> > I will give a small practical example from my experience. I had been once given a mantra by a person I respect a lot. I had never even heard of the deity of

that mantra before. I religiously chanted the mantra for nearly two years, where as when I tried analysing the mantra using the rules of mantra shastra, I found it is comes as manta that should ideally cause me harm. And yet it never did anything like that. I still hang on that mantra. So obviously I must have miscalculated or missed out some sub clause or something. Instead of chanting the mantra directly, if I had known about these mantra shatra analysis techniques then and tried it with my imperfect knowledge, I may have never ventured into chanting the mantra. > > So in the end, I am not saying mantras for remedies are useless. Of course not. But rather than over emphasis on high level subtle rules which have an equal chance of being miscalculated, a change in attitude (even for an average short-term gain mantra) may be of more practical use.> > -Regards> Rajarshi> > >

> The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra> > --- On Wed, 4/3/09, Soul Sadhak <soulsadhak@ ...> wrote:> > Soul Sadhak <soulsadhak@ ...>> On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)> sohamsa@ .com> Wednesday, 4 March, 2009, 1:50 PM> > > > > > > Yes Rajarshi, your are right regarding theory and application of it. Yet, everyone may not be having the same spiritual insight or have done the same ground work as you say or have the same understanding of the process. But atleast there is hope that out of all those who seek fast remedies through mantras, there would be atleast some that may get to have a veiw of that spark

of the universal consciousness may be even for a brief span (span = here attention/awareness becomes more important than the time) and some, out of those few, may be instigated/inspired to make a move towards realising that Truth, while some may be those who find once again the connection they lost from previous birth - you never know...all those who come to seek the remedies may not become qualified jet pilots at one go (of course with rigorous training) - but atleast learn to drive some vehicle or the other and learn more about how to improve their driving skills if the inner drive> comes through...and if they dont, well, it is their level of spiritual growth - isn't it? may be they even end up calling the astrologer as incompetent - who is to blame?> > 2 people reading the same (spiritual) text may interpret it differently and argue about it's meaning, while the Zen master may hit their head with the proverbial stick and tell

them that "the tao that can be described in words is not the real tao". > > Does that mean that all (spiritual) text is invalid? > The answer is "yes" AND "no"...or may be even "Neither". > That is because it depends on the relativity of the observer's locus.> > I would just quote Bharat again here, as he's already said it:> "Most people do not use the above approach, they want specific > remedies for their specific problems and that too quickly. The > Mantra Shastra helps both approaches. For the students, I think it > is this part they should learn as Jyotishas and the above part shall > come automatically with their spiritual "growth" and understanding. "> > Best Regards,> SS> > sohamsa@ .com, rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14@ ...> wrote:> >> > Dear SS> > > > Correct. The idea

is one of practical application and one of theoritical discussion. As you rightly mentioned easier said than done. The question is why is it easier said than done, that is because unless one is ready to follow at least some parts of the rules, disciples and as Narasimha says, the idea of humility (being a begger), most mantras wont work in teh short span inspite of following all theoritical rules. Unless you are already a "ready" canditate with all the "ground work" having already been done.> > > > I have come across people using plenty of mantras for very short purposes and yet not achieving any results at all. Whereas there are those who can use specific mantras for specific purposes and achive such results. What is the difference? The "ground work". is the difference I feel.> > > > -Regards> > Rajarshi> > > > > > The upsurge (of consciousness) is

Bhairava - Shiva Sutra> > > > --- On Wed, 4/3/09, Soul Sadhak <soulsadhak@ ...> wrote:> > > > Soul Sadhak <soulsadhak@ ...>> > On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)> > sohamsa@ .com> > Wednesday, 4 March, 2009, 12:35 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "For those who seek the truth, the mantra japa serves as a constant reminder of the what the Truth is. For those how seek certain ends from it, they gain only that much."> > "Mantra Shastra helps both approaches."> > > > thanx Bharat.> > > > dear all,> > > > If we understands this, it will bring much peace.> > else repeat OMmmmmmm.... ..and 'become' the SILENCE....isnt that the end to all troubles? Easier said than

done.> > > > Best regards,> > SS> > > > > > > > On Mar 4, 2009, at 12:24 AM, Bharat - Hindu Astrology <astrologyhindu@ ... > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > Namaste Sundeep> > > >> > > > Please pardon my intervention. Hindus are not idol worshipers. And > > > > it is the Hindus who know that Lord only is. They do not use the > > > > word "one", since "one" presupposes "two" and "three"... and so on. > > > > Since Lord only is, the entirety is contained within in including > > > > all time, space and causation. Every object, every being is > > > > contained within the Lord. For an untrained mind, it is difficult to > > > > consume this. To focus one's attention to this principle he needs > > > > something

tangible. So an object that can signify this principle to > > > > the person becomes an object of worship. Once this shape is given to > > > > the object... it is never considered an Idol. It is worshipped as > > > > God itself. Noone goes to the temple and says " Hey Idol, ...." , > > > > everyone fold their hands and say "Hey Krishna or Hey Rama or Hey > > > > Shiva .....".> > > >> > > > The people who wrongly call hindus idol worshippers are themselves > > > > worshipping the idols. What is a cross? What is a the book Koran or > > > > the image of Mecca or the words "Allah Hu Akbar" inscribed on a > > > > plate? These all are Idols. Aren't they?> > > >> > > > So long is there a world and realization does not dawn upon oneself, > > > > one would

need something to focus their mind with. This in our > > > > scriptures have been suggested through various ways:> > > >> > > > 1. Shapes and Symbols> > > > 2. Elements> > > > 3. Upasanas: Observing the nature and relating it to the Truth. Like > > > > endless is the space and time and relating the quality of endless to > > > > the Truth.> > > > 4. Mantra Japa- Herein the sound reverberates with the certain > > > > element/aspect of nature. To that root is added our request. For > > > > those who seek the truth, the mantra japa serves as a constant > > > > reminder of the what the Truth is. For those how seek certain ends > > > > from it, they gain only that much.> > > >> > > > Therefore Sundeep, I request you to study our culture

more and you > > > > shall find nothing that is sane and truthful missing from it.> > > >> > > > Sri Narasimha is suggesting that we do not command the Lord and > > > > worship him undertaking any appealing mantra - which essentially > > > > means that the more we understand its meaning the idea of the Lord > > > > shall become clearer and clearer in our minds. This approach is for > > > > spiritual aspirants who are willing to "let go themselves in the > > > > hands of the lord". This is something that one has to realize for > > > > oneself and not impose on others. Furthermore, it should not be > > > > called "begging". There is no difference between the Lord and our > > > > True Self. To call ourselves beggars is to defile us and Srimad > > > > Bhagavad Gita

warns against such a self judgement.> > > >> > > >> > > > Most people do not use the above approach, they want specific > > > > remedies for their specific problems and that too quickly. The > > > > Mantra Shastra helps both approaches. For the students, I think it > > > > is this part they should learn as Jyotishas and the above part shall > > > > come automatically with their spiritual "growth" and understanding.> > > >> > > > Hope this helps> > > >> > > > Thanks and Regards> > > > Bharat> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 4:07 AM, vedicastrostudent <vedicastrostudent@

.... > > > > > wrote:> > > > Dear Narasimhaji (and it might help others to read this fully too,> > > > trust me you may well be satisfied),> > > >> > > > First, let me say I am not about to either agree/disagree with you. I> > > > am only standing back and observing/categoriz ing your approach, and> > > > comparing it historical events that will give me a sense of the final> > > > import of your approach.> > > >> > > > If you read about Abraham, the supposed "father" of the three> > > > religions (Christianity, Judaism and Islam) that have together had the> > > > most following among all religions in the world (ever). As far as I> > > > know, he lived in a time of deities and ritual. He is supposedly the> > > > first to have

actively sought to bring the notion of one God to the> > > > masses. He destroyed idols much to the dissatisfaction of lots around> > > > him. Apparently God revealed himself to Abraham several times.> > > > Abraham submitted himself completely to the will of God, always,> > > > without question. It seems logical to conclude that he destroyed and> > > > denounced idolatry because he felt, at the very least, that focus on> > > > the multiplicity of deity and webs of rituals took *away* a person's> > > > focus from the real thing - submission to the one and only God (which> > > > is what Abraham was really about i.e. submission to the one and only> > > > God). Before jumping to any conclusions about what I am trying to say,> > > > please read on.> > > >> > > > Me,

I'm fascinated by religious psychology, i.e. what drives people to> > > > believe in God and how. I *dont seek to denounce* either Abraham or> > > > the idolaters (Hindus would obviously come to mind here), only to> > > > understand them. The way I have found to unify these two seemingly> > > > contradictory approaches is the following, and perhaps it will help> > > > you as well: God is *eventually only one* of course and "resides" deep> > > > within us, and projects himself (I use "project" in exactly the sense> > > > Michal describes) in various ways into human experience. As people get> > > > spiritually elevated, the projections become less necessary and they> > > > are able to have a more and more direct experience of God.> > > > Consequently, they start forgetting the role the

projections> > > > *originally had in the beginning of their path* and consider the most> > > > important thing to be the complete submission to the *growing* inner> > > > light of God within themselves.> > > >> > > > My feeling is that that is what happened to Abraham, and is what is> > > > happening to you as well. Psychologically and astrologically speaking,> > > > the examples you choose to illustrate your point betray your> > > > psychology. You have unconsciously chosen an example of a mountain,> > > > with the *final God experience* sitting on top. That final God> > > > experience is the Sun, astrologically speaking i.e. the source, the> > > > symbol of the growing inner light within *you*. The various paths to> > > > the top that you talk about represent, I

think, Mercury, with its> > > > various forms and distinctions (Prithvi tattwa?). As you behold the> > > > Sun, the king, in all his magnificence, everything else pales in> > > > comparison. And sure enough, you start posting that all the paths are> > > > unimportant :-)> > > >> > > > But see, not everyone is there yet, all the distinctions and dates and> > > > rituals are important, because they will unerringly lead one there, as> > > > they did for you. At least that's what I have gathered after listening> > > > to Sanjayji and all the gurus on this group..> > > >> > > > Regards,> > > >> > > > Sundeep> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Check out the all-new Messenger 9.0! Go to http://in.messenger ./> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger. / invite/>

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