On Remedial Measures Difference (Resolving Points)

[Guest guest]

Dear Sanjay,

 

> Mantra Shastra is a very detailed work and includes mantra dosha etc.

> It is very scientific and accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this.

 

Some may be fascinated by the texture, color and volume of the chaff and miss

the grain.

 

Most people who talk about mantra shastra focus on the chaff and not on the

grain.

 

> You talk of begging God vs commanding God? Now where did that come from?

> How is it related to what is under discussion. Perhaps I have missed many

> mails and am not able to get the context. Trying to command God is

> *BLACK MAGIC* and this is detestable to say the least. The attitude should

> always be that of a beggar in front of God. If anyone has said otherwise, I

> also disagee with him/her.

 

I mentioned the above with respect to the need of thousands of mantras and

technicalities. If one does not want to command god and wants to be a beggar who

will take whatever is given, there is no need for thousands of mantras and all

the umpteen technicalities. These thousands of mantras and umpteen

technicalities are for commanding thousands of different results from god. That

is why I talked of commanding vs begging. However, this commanding works

slightly differently than one may imagine. I will elaborate.

 

Also, commanding god is NOT black magic. Commanding low level beings is black

magic, which can be accomplished even by a person not quite elevated spiritually

and suffering from a heavy ego. However, commanding higher beings such as gods

is possible only for a spiritually elevated person with no or extremely small

ego. This commanding that I am referring to is not an egoistic achievement. In

fact, an egoist cannot achieve it. Only a person succeeding in completely

effacing individual ego can achieve this commanding! I will repeat something

from the previous mail to clarify:

 

The universe has many lokas (planes of consciousness), many beings and many

objects. There are infinite karmic interactions possible between them.

Accordingly, there are infinite possible mantras. When one is able to perfectly

control the mind and *fill it* with a mantra (i.e. no thoughts but the mantra

reverberating in the mind constantly), then one experiences the mantra. This

perfect absorption of self-awareness in the mantra then causes internal changes

by the flow of energy internally in specific ways (specific to the mantra) and

that causes corresponding external changes in the universe and corresponding

karmic interactions between various objects.

 

Each set of " karmic interactions between various objects " is a " result " . Various

mantras are for various " results " . One may term merging self-awareness in a

mantra fully and getting a specific result from it as " commanding a result " from

god. Whether you like the term or not, it is essentially that.

 

* * *

 

But the bottomline is this: Only a highly purified sadhaka of very low ego can

command specific results from god (not for selfishness or even ego satisfaction,

but acting as an unattached instrument of Nature fulfilling one's dharma set by

Nature). Various mantras and technicalities of mantra shastra taught by rishis

are meant for such sadhakas.

 

Those are hardly of use to so many people out there with dense egos seeking

specific selfish results. They cannot command specific results from god (because

of their heavy attachment to the result, which is in turn due to their own

attachment to a limited ego), even if they use all the techniques of mantra

shastra and all the associated rules of astrology. Instead of wasting their time

with these technicalities, they will be better off learning to be good beggars

at God's door.

 

Just pick any prasiddha mantra or a mantra you feel attracted to, without

worrying about so many technicalities, and learn to be humble and surrender to

the Lord. Patiently wait for him to give you what you want. Like a beggar, take

whatever and whenever he gives.

 

Keep praying every day or every second when you are able to. Even when you are

not praying, remember him in all of your actions. When you enjoy something in

the material world, tell yourself that it is his and that he gave it to you. If

you remember him all the time, slowly the dirt in your mind will start to get

cleaned. This fixing of attitude is faaaaaaaaaaaar more important than picking

the right mantra, right weekday, right tithi etc (that too based on unreliable

knowledge coming from questionable sources!).

 

* * *

 

There may be a mountain with thousands of paths (mantra) for climbing it. Each

path may lead to a different spot (different experience) on the top and show a

different scenery (result). Expert advisors (astrologers) may tell you to use a

specific path (mantra) to see a specific scenery (result). But such advice is

useless to a handicapped person without legs (a selfish person with dense ego).

It is relevant only to person with legs and one who is strong and sturdy, who

can successfully climb the mountain (a reasonably detached person with very

little ego).

 

Even when you encounter a person who has legs and can actually climb the

mountain, the stress should be on how to climb the mountain and traverse the

long path, rather than which path to take. The astrologers who are bogged down

by all the technicalities and people who take customized mantra advice from

astrologers and think that they will get a result quickly by doing that

'powerful' mantra are missing the basic point. The power of a powerful mantra is

with respect to the experience and result obtained *after* one succeeds with the

mantra. A partcicularly powerful mantra is akin to a path leading to a point

atop the mountain where the view shows a particularly beautiful scenery. But the

bottomline is that you do have to survive the climb along the long path.

 

We need to emphasize the attitude and approach needed for the long climb, rather

than emphasizing the choice of the path based on horoscope. It is worth noting

that so many great spiritual teachers who came in the last century or two did

not emphasize picking the right mantra based on horoscope etc. Instead, they

emphasized having the correct attitude - surrender, submission, devotion,

patience, persistence, discipline, humility etc!!!! *That* is a lot more

important and useful than trying to be oversmart with the choice of mantra, day

etc and impress god.

 

* * *

 

> when should the worship of a graha be done? Let us say someone

> wishes to worship Mars (Mangala graha). When do you think this

> worship should be done?

 

You can do anyday. Parasara does not mention any day for doing homam to a graha.

 

In fact, if one wants, one can do a homam or worship to Mars (or any planet)

every day. It is even better that way.

 

If an astrologer suggests doing it on a Tuesday, it is fine. But saying that

doing it on so and so day will bring serious dangers because Mars is an enemy of

so and so planet would be stretching things.

 

> [sanjay Rath:] Where do you think Veda Vyasa (Krishna dvaipaayana) got his

> knowledge and those who wrote it as scribes for him, where did they get it

from?

 

From Self - from within. That is the source of all knowledge. A sadguru need not

specifically teach thousand things, but needs to open the door inside.

 

* * *

 

> OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for Gandanta being in 0 deg,

> 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a junction between agni

> and jala...I want to her your words if you have any.

 

Parasara's definition of gandanta is restricted to two neighboring areas in a

contiguous space having a predominance of fire and water elements. " I see fire

and I see water. So there is gandanta " is a wrong approach. One can then call

Venus, a watery planet, being in a fiery sign or Mars, a fiery planet, being in

a watery sign as gandanta. Gandanta requires a *transition* in a contiguous

space.

 

In your example of upapada lord's tithi, there is no contiguous space where

there is a water-fire transition.

 

> Now somewhere you talked of wasting time!!! Look what you are doing.

> You were asked to work on Parashara by your Spiritual Master, and

> are you doing that? Me10, Ve7, Ve6...good research but is that from

> Parashara?

 

Well, Me10, Ve7 etc theory is based on marrying two different teachings of

Parasara (bhava karakas and special lagnas). I do not really consider it as my

creation but as understanding Parasara's teachings only.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

 

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

Spirituality:

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

 

 

sohamsa , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath wrote:

>

> om paramesthi gurave namah

>

> Dear Narasimha,

>

> I read this mail twice. OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for Gandanta

being in 0 deg, 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a junction

between agni and jala...I want to her your words if you have any. You keep

saying Parasara says so and yet there is nothing forthcoming.

>

> The rashi is associated with the Aditya as the rashi come into existence

because of the Sun, which is the agni tattva. Vara is also agni tattva among the

panchanga of Jyotisha. That is why Vaara is related to rashi. Karma has been

advised in the vaara of the lords of the rashi or the hora of the lords of the

rashi related to a bhaava and for this reason, fasting and other such karma

related to rashi are also based on this. [see Prashna Marga for details].

>

> Moon is the significator of the Aroodha. It is the *emotional content* related

to the maya manifestation of everything in life. Suffering is caused as we do

not fathom the karma associated that resulted in suffering and fasting is a a

means of self punishment and correction related to the raashi where the aroodha

is. Just as Agni has the purity to burn the root of sin, fasting on vaara

related to the UL is surely going to cleanse the sins associated with the

suffering in it. While this may not give a 100% satisfaction as the *moon*

content has not been addressed, at least the initiation of the aroodha occurs

and people find their partners, get married and get along with life. Proof lies

in the pudding and with so many cases where people have fasted on UL days and

have got result, we have found faith in these teachings reinforced. Why fast?

Fasting on vaara is a means to correcting the flaw associated with the raashi.

Raashi is a quantity and hence it is related to the material effects of the

bhava and that is what people are looking for when they come to th astrologer.

You have done well to recall my teachings in this – remember what I

taught – Men should worship a female deity and women shold worship a male

deity for the UL fasting. I wonder if they really follow this.

>

> Why not give fasting at night instead of day? Sun is always good for the

Upapada (Jaimini etc) and that is why we have limited this to day fasting and

not night fasting as well or 24 hour fast. This is my interpolation. [ satisfied

J ] Elders would have given long periods of fast starting from the vaara, like

keeping 21 days fast for the birth of child! You think I should be doing that!

You think anyone will lsiten. Try it yourself before asking me to advise those

hard penance kind of fasts.

>

> Who says the Moon has nothing to do with the arudha. It is the sustainer. Now

people to an astrologer when they are looking for getting married and hardly

anyone comes these days asking for prolonging marriage. Either they want to get

into one or get out of one and into another...astrologers these days are

relegated to helping people make these transitions painless and fast. Of course

some have come and I have not failed them. I have a ready shloka for this

– start from Taurus in Hamsa gati:

>

> Gouri, Kaali, Uma, Bhadraa, Durga, Kanti, Saraswati

>

> Mangalaa, Vaishnavi, Lakshmi, Shivaa, Naraayani

>

> See I have them ready for the 12 signs in Hamsa Gati from the mool trikona of

Moon in hamsa gati

>

> Mantra Shastra is a very detailed work and includes mantra dosha etc. It is

very scientific and accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this.

>

> You talk of begging God vs commanding God? Now where did that come from? How

is it related to what is under discussion. Perhaps I have missed many mails and

am not able to get the context. Trying to command God is *BLACK MAGIC* and this

is detestable to say the least. The attitude should always be that of a beggar

in front of God. If anyone has said otherwise, I also disagee with him/her.

>

> Prasiddha mantras always give result, even without initiation and who knows

how ready a person is for initation. So I prefer sticking to prasiddha mantras

with people who do not have initiations. This is there in VRA also.

>

> I have some questions where I have doubts about what you say. It is below

your mail.

>

> With Warm Regards

>

> Sanjay Rath

>

> http://srath.com http://sohamsa.com http://.org

>

> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India

>

> sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

> 15 February 2009 09:34

> sohamsa ; Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

> Cc: vedic astrology ;

> On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)

>

>  > Statement 1 is an arrogance that the entire Jyotisha shastra is bogus

>

> > and has no relevance as the remedial measures prescribed by

>

> > Parasara and others to be done on specific days are irrlevant and

>

> > not of much consequence.

>

> First of all, Parasara did *not* prescribe fasting on specific weekdays or

tithis based on any arudhas or houses in a chart.

>

> For doshas in birth chart or to get relief from planetary afflictions or to

get the blessings of planets, he suggested various *homas* (fire rituals) and

described how to perform them. His section on remedial measures is full of

various homas. I am not dismissing those remedies taught by Parasara himself and

I am in fact slowly preparing manuals on them so that anybody can do them by

themselves.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] what about the Puranas? Have you gone through the Navagraha

mantras given in the Garuda Purana and other puranic literature?

>

> Parasara did *not* specify the weekday or tithi for most of these homas (e.g.

planetary homas). Only for homas for specific birth doshas (e.g. Amavasya dosha

or Moola dosha), he fixed the tithi or nakshatra based on the dosha and the

deity. But the days are not based on any house or arudha in the chart.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] If Amavasya dosha is to be performed on Amavasya, when should

the worship of a graha be done? Let us say someone wishes to worship Mars

(Mangala graha). When do you think this worship should be done?

>

> Thus, the principles I am questioning are *not* from Parasara.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] Where do you think Veda Vyasa (Krishna dvaipaayana) got his

knowledge and those who wrote it as scribes for him, where did they get it from?

>

> Second, I said what I said in a *context*. People are mentioning complicated

principles that are not found in classics or works of rishis and scaring people

that performing austerities such as fasting on certain days cause " danger to

spouse " or " serious doshas " or " insult to Vishnu " , based on horoscope. I find

these principles illogical and based on hasty thinking. There may be a little

difference between doing an austerity on different days, but my point is that it

is smaller compared to the difference between doing and not doing at all and

that doing it on a " wrong day " does not cause danger as being suggested.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I am sorry. I missed the context and just saw some mails that

were forwarded to me amidst my writing. But them its always a pleasure to talk

to you as in that many many have benefitted, and that includes us as well.

>

> Third, our shastras primarily talk about worshipping various deities on

various days, based on the energy of the *deity*. For worshipping a certain

deity, certain tithi or weekday or nakshatra is better than others. This is

based on the deity and irrespective of the person worshipping. Let me give an

analogy. If a rich man comes out with more money to give to beggars on a

specific day, a beggar is better off going and begging on that day. Schedule and

mood of the giver is more important.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] That’s not right...at least people who read this will

think. Let’s say Shiva worship on Mondays. Shiva is the pratyadhi devata

of the Sun and is not worshipped on Sundays but on Mondays. NOTE – a day

after Sunday! Similarly Narayana is the pratyadhi devata of Mercury and is

worshipped on Thursdays instead of Wednesdays. NOTE – again a day after!

So what happened to the energy equation? J

>

> Choosing the day of a remedy based on the deity is more important and the

variations based on individual horoscope are less important. I am not saying

there are no horoscopic variations. But they are smaller and, more importantly,

I question if they are actually well-understood by astrologers today to apply

*reliably*. I question over-emphasizing and over-selling unreliable principles

of questionable origin and scaring people on that basis.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] To this I can agree as many have not understood even the basics

of Sanatana dharma! Some behave as if there is a battle going on between Shiva

and Vishnu – it’s hilarious to see how these are just attempts to

convert Hinduism into a religion they have left rather than trying to learn what

Hinduism means. Being newly converted there is a bellicose patriotism in them to

prove their faith to the *new god* they have found and every other God must be

the devil in disguise!! It will take years for many to learn that there is no

devil. It’s a figment of their imagination and whatever is devilish is

the dark side of mankind himself.

>

> * * *

>

> > Statement 2 is an arrogance that the entire mantra shastra is useless

>

> > and the Rishi’s were wasting time in giving so many mantras

for

>

> > the same devata, like say thousands of mantras for Vishnu or Hanuman

>

> > when any one mantra would suffice. OR it is like saying that we can

>

> > take paracetamol and pray that cancer is cured. I think I may have to

>

> > write a book on Mantra Shastra to validate the teachings of the vedic

>

> > seers.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I got your point here. It’s a good point.

>

> Now somewhere you talked of wasting time!!! Look what you are doing. You were

asked to work on Parashara by your Spiritual Master, and are you doing that?

Me10, Ve7, Ve6...good research but is that from Parashara?

>

> I also know what argument you will give me - J You will say I am already

working on that and have some spare time to do this as well...to which I will

have nothing to say.

>

 

-

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

sohamsa ; Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

Cc: vedic astrology ;

Saturday, February 14, 2009 11:03 PM

On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)

 

 

Dear Sanjay,

 

> Since you do not have any real definition of Gandanta, I am dropping that

 

I do have a definition of gandanta, which is Parasara's definition in BPHS.

 

Since some of you are extrapolating it based on the fire embodied in UL and

water embodied in tithis, the onus is on you to outline and justify your

definition. I got into this thread because statements were made that fasting on

particular weekdays or tithis in a chart can cause " insult to Vishnu " , " serious

doshas " and " danger to spouse " , based on these far-fetched extrapolations of

gandanta.

 

> Which is perfectly in line with everything I have learnt.

 

Well, you once taught that houses represent Sun/Shiva/truth and arudhas

represent Moon/Gouri/perception. That was meaningful. Now, you associated UL, an

arudha, with Sun and fire and 12th, a house, with Gouri and water. I question

whether the new theory on fasting is really in line with everything you have

learnt (and taught).

 

BTW, I specifically asked for a clarification on whether this was based on your

own thinking or from classics/parampara (see quoted mail below for the full

context). Like so many times with similar questions I asked privately and

recently publicly, you did not respond.

 

* * *

 

> Statement 1 is an arrogance that the entire Jyotisha shastra is bogus

> and has no relevance as the remedial measures prescribed by

> Parasara and others to be done on specific days are irrlevant and

> not of much consequence.

 

First of all, Parasara did *not* prescribe fasting on specific weekdays or

tithis based on any arudhas or houses in a chart.

 

For doshas in birth chart or to get relief from planetary afflictions or to get

the blessings of planets, he suggested various *homas* (fire rituals) and

described how to perform them. His section on remedial measures is full of

various homas. I am not dismissing those remedies taught by Parasara himself and

I am in fact slowly preparing manuals on them so that anybody can do them by

themselves.

 

Parasara did *not* specify the weekday or tithi for most of these homas (e.g.

planetary homas). Only for homas for specific birth doshas (e.g. Amavasya dosha

or Moola dosha), he fixed the tithi or nakshatra based on the dosha and the

deity. But the days are not based on any house or arudha in the chart.

 

Thus, the principles I am questioning are *not* from Parasara.

 

Second, I said what I said in a *context*. People are mentioning complicated

principles that are not found in classics or works of rishis and scaring people

that performing austerities such as fasting on certain days cause " danger to

spouse " or " serious doshas " or " insult to Vishnu " , based on horoscope. I find

these principles illogical and based on hasty thinking. There may be a little

difference between doing an austerity on different days, but my point is that it

is smaller compared to the difference between doing and not doing at all and

that doing it on a " wrong day " does not cause danger as being suggested.

 

Third, our shastras primarily talk about worshipping various deities on various

days, based on the energy of the *deity*. For worshipping a certain deity,

certain tithi or weekday or nakshatra is better than others. This is based on

the deity and irrespective of the person worshipping. Let me give an analogy. If

a rich man comes out with more money to give to beggars on a specific day, a

beggar is better off going and begging on that day. Schedule and mood of the

giver is more important.

 

Choosing the day of a remedy based on the deity is more important and the

variations based on individual horoscope are less important. I am not saying

there are no horoscopic variations. But they are smaller and, more importantly,

I question if they are actually well-understood by astrologers today to apply

*reliably*. I question over-emphasizing and over-selling unreliable principles

of questionable origin and scaring people on that basis.

 

* * *

 

> Statement 2 is an arrogance that the entire mantra shastra is useless

> and the Rishi’s were wasting time in giving so many mantras for

> the same devata, like say thousands of mantras for Vishnu or Hanuman

> when any one mantra would suffice. OR it is like saying that we can

> take paracetamol and pray that cancer is cured. I think I may have to

> write a book on Mantra Shastra to validate the teachings of the vedic

> seers.

 

I did not say it is " useless " . Instead, I suggest that our ability to use it is

limited and we should take our limitations into consideration.

 

The universe has many lokas (planes of consciousness), many beings and many

objects. There are infinite karmic interactions possible between them.

Accordingly, there are infinite possible mantras. When one is able to perfectly

control the mind and *fill it* with a mantra (i.e. no thoughts but the mantra

reverberating in the mind constantly), then one experiences the mantra. This

perfect absorption of self-awareness in the mantra then causes internal changes

by the flow of energy internally in specific ways (specific to the mantra) and

that causes corresponding external changes in the universe and corresponding

karmic interactions between various objects.

 

However, this variety of mantras, experiences and results is irrelevant to one

who does not have such perfect control over the mind to absorb the mind fully in

a mantra. It is relevant only to a seer whose self-awareness is quite evolved

and hence control over mind impeccable. Such seers are extremely extremely rare

today. Most people are unable to experience any mantra and mantras do not work

for them as they are supposed to.

 

* * *

 

Just repeating a combination of sounds does not guarantee anything. Some people

may think that certain results come when they repeat a mantra certain number of

times. That is an incorrect notion. A mantra may work for one person quickly and

another may spend the whole life chanting it and nothing may happen. Absorption

of the entire mind into a mantra is needed for a mantra to really work and it is

much more difficult than one may think.

 

* * *

 

A highly learned scholar in the court of a king may be able to command the king

and get whatever he wants from king. An incapable one is better off begging the

king, rather than trying to command (and failing for sure).

 

Similarly, most people are better off begging god for what they want rather than

trying to use the right mantra to command what they want. A beggar does not need

a huge vocabulary or great scholarship or knowledge. Feeling of humility and

helplessness, surrender, patience and persistence are what help a beggar

succeed. A beggar needs the right attitude rather than knowledge. In this age

and time, best bet for most people is to learn to be a good beggar at god's

door.

 

What people today need for material and spiritual progress through remedial

measures is a better attitude in begging god rather than a better choice of

tools such as mantras and other specifics such as weekday, tithi etc to command

a specific result from god.

 

It is worth noting that so many great spiritual teachers who came in the last

century or two did not emphasize picking the right mantra based on horoscope

etc. Instead, they emphasized having the correct attitude - surrender,

submission, devotion, patience, persistence, discipline, humility etc. *That* is

a lot more important and useful than trying to be oversmart with the choice of

mantra, day etc and impress god.

 

* * *

 

One more thing. We have many mantras given by rishis, but the guidelines from

rishis like Parasara on how to pick a mantra based on the horoscope are very

limited. Astrologers today do not operate solely based on them. They use all

kinds of other rules coming from various traditions. They are not free from

corruption and imperfection. Most scriptures associate various mantras with

various results, irrespective of horoscope. For example, irrespective of who is

the 6th lord and 8th lord and lord of A6 and A8, Rina Vimochaka Angaraka mantra

is good for debt control. And so on. Linking of horoscope is overplayed by

today's astrologers, way beyond the scope of Parasara's guidelines.

 

If one has a sadguru, I recommend following the word of sadguru rather than that

of an astrology theoretician.

 

If not, there is no foolproof way to know the right path. Pick any path (given

by an astrologer or one that you feel attracted to) instead of wasting time and

then keep working on your attitude. The latter is the key. As I said earlier,

learn to be a humble beggar at god's door. Choice of Mantra is secondary and

attitude is primary. If you succeed in being a really humble beggar, you stand a

better chance of success than great scholars.

 

Any prasiddha mantra (e.g. ashtakshari, panchakshari, dwadasakshari, navakshari,

vishnu sahasranaam, rudram, hare krishna maha mantra, chandipath, ganapati

atharva seersham, mrityunjaya mantra etc) can help one make progress if one

develops the right attitude. Without the right attitude, even an impeaccably

picked mantra will do nothing.

 

* * *

 

I hope this sufficiently clarifies my stand. I discuss these matters related to

spiritual sadhana more on the . Some writings are sampled

at http://www.vedicastrologer.org/homam/writings.htm.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

 

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

Spirituality:

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

 

 

om paramesthi gurave namah

 

Dear Narasimha,

 

Since you do not have any real definition of Gandanta, I am dropping that and

continue with my belief of the junction between Agni and Jala rasi as the case

of gandanta and the loka junctions. Which is perfectly in line with everything I

have learnt.

 

Two statements you have made contradict standard texts on Jyotish and Mantra

Shastra. Please correct me if I am not understanding you well out here -

 

1. Statement 1: *fasting on any day or any tithi* is good so long as the

sankalpa has been made for the devata you intend to pray to. Results maybe a bit

delayed but will be there.

2. Statement 2: *reciting any prayer* will give the desired effects for any

ailment we wish to remedy

 

Is this what you intended to say or did I get this wrong?

 

Statement 1 is an arrogance that the entire Jyotisha shastra is bogus and has

no relevance as the remedial measures prescribed by Parasara and others to be

done on specific days are irrlevant and not of much consequence. This sounds

like another astrologer I had known some time back whose statements like this

coerced me to write Vedic Remedies in Astrology so that people are not misled

but such pretexts to knowledge.

 

Statement 2 is an arrogance that the entire mantra shastra is useless and the

Rishi’s were wasting time in giving so many mantras for the same devata,

like say thousands of mantras for Vishnu or Hanuman when any one mantra would

suffice. OR it is like saying that we can take paracetamol and pray that cancer

is cured. I think I may have to write a book on Mantra Shastra to validate the

teachings of the vedic seers.

 

I think there is something wrong in the way you are saying what you want to

say. Please rethink and correct your statements for the sake of good record in

this list.

 

With Warm Regards

Sanjay Rath

http://srath.com http://sohamsa.com http://.org

15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India

 

-

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

sohamsa

Sunday, February 08, 2009 12:03 PM

Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING

 

 

Namaste Sanjay and friends,

 

My answers are in red and prefixed with " [Narasimha] " .

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

> > >> tithi. The basic point is that Upapada is a rashi and carries energy

> > >> of Vara or day. If you fast on the day ruled by tithi of the 2nd

> > >> lord, you are bringing the jala energy to vara, and gandanta may

> > >> occur, and spouse may come into a danger. So, what is the way out.

>

> Why does a rashi carry the energy of vaara only and not that of the

tithi???? Why does rashi represent vaara or fire?

>

> [sanjay Rath:] Because Raashi were created by Surya and for doing so Surya

took 12 forms called the Dvadasa Aditya...Narasimha you ask this?? What is

happening?

>

> After all, Rudra rules over the element of fire and Gouri rules over the

element of water and one worships Gouri at the time of marriage. Moreover, Venus

(water) is the karaka for marriage. So one could even say that UL/marriage is

represented by water element and fasting on UL lord's tithi brings the element

of water (prosperity and well-being) to one's marriage (UL)? One could even say

that fasting on the weekday of UL lord should be prohibited as it brings the

fire element represented by weekday to the water of UL and causes " gandanta " !

>

> [sanjay Rath:] UL is the Maya and is associated with the Raashi Narasimha.

It is the 12L which is the creator of the UL...just as the mother Gouri creates

everything through the shakti of the graha, all the arudha are created by her

due to the lordships of the planets. So fasting on the tithi lorded by the 12th

lord will be a *more correct* answer.

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

[Narasimha] We always say that houses (truth) are represented by Sun (aatman)

and arudha padas (maya) by Moon (mind).

 

Thus, 12th house is the actual creator and UL is the apparent creator in the

field of maya. Houses (truth) should actually be associated with Sun (aatman)

and Shiva (and not Gouri), while arudha padas (perception) should actually be

associated with Moon (mind) and Gouri. After all, that is what we do in the

tripod method in dasa judgment.

 

Thus, it is actually more logical to say that 12th house and 12th lord imbibe

the agni tattva of Sun and UL and UL lord imbibe the jala tattva of Moon.

 

Is the above " *more correct* answer " based on your own thinking or is it from

a classic or from tradition?

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

> The mantra one meditates with at the end of a day's fasting is far more

effective than at other times. The conservation of energy otherwise spent on

digestion or speech will enable far more effective mantra meditation. So fast or

keep mouna and then meditate with a mantra, to maximize the effect of the

mantra.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I do not agree with this. Correct eating is the best blessing

for good mantra practise. On days when one fasts the mind is troubled by hunger

causing the stomach to burn and churn and this disturbs mantra japa. Correct

eating (alpa aahaara) is many many times better than complete fasting.

 

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

[Narasimha] Well, if one cannot fast, then one is destined to expend some

energy on digestion after all and not focus all energy on the mantra. But the

bottomline is that shastras say that one should meditate either without or with

very little food (niraahaaro mitaahaaro). In any case, I hope we agree that

meditation sessions after heavy eating are heavily restrained in effectiveness.

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

> Seriously, however, this kind of stretching of gandanta concepts is quite

illogical.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] It is not stretching ... it is the very definition of

gandanta – the interface between fire and water. Put a burning match in a

glass of water, the fire dies...There are other Ganda’s in the chart but

they are not anta (ends). Take Chitra ganda between Kanya and Tula.

 

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

[Narasimha] Putting a burning match in a glass of water does indeed kill fire.

But the question is of contact. If I am thinking of fire in my mind while

standing in water, it does not kill the fire. There is no contact.

 

My point is that the examples given have no real identifiable contact between

water and fire.

 

One can be creative and come up with a lot of theories. For example, one can

say that Moon and Venus are jala tattva and all rasis show agni tattva (then why

are some rasis marked as agni rasis and some as water rasis etc) and hence the

sign occupied by Moon and Venus cause contact between water and fire. Then one

can say fasting on the weekdays of the dispositors of Moon and Venus causes

gandanta and serious danger.

 

It is not enough to show some fire and some water. See what counts as contact.

Otherwise, one will engage in illogical extrapolations.

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

> Three years back you said you are leaving jyotish....then again you told me

two years back and again recently that you are leaving jyotish. Now it is

getting very evident that *jyotish is leaving you*. The knowledge of Jyotish is

PERFECT – individuals embody it in different levels of their

understanding and intelligence.

 

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

[Narasimha] Nothing is permanent. What is one's cannot be taken away. And one

cannot cling on to what is not one's. Some rejoice when it seems like something

comes and cry when it seems like something leaves. Some impassionately observe

as things seem to come and go and do what they see as their dharma with the

things they seem to have.

 

Just a factual correction though: I never said I was leaving Jyotish. For a

few years after my spiritual master entered my life, my interest in other things

went down (though I continued to do other things) and my focus on spiritual

sadhana intensified. So I said that my interest in Jyotish was very low.

However, my guru gave me a task later. He wanted me to study the teachings of

Parasara independently, meditate on them and share my interpretations with the

world. He said I was very passionate in my Jyotish activities earlier, and he

wanted me to do the same now but dispassionately and without an attachment. He

felt that I still have a contribution to make to Jyotish and wants me to do it

as an unattached karma. His word is everything for me.

 

What I told you recently is not that I was leaving Jyotish but what I said

above.

 

However, if your judgment is correct and if Jyotish is indeed " leaving " me, I

am sure my spiritual guru will realize it sooner or later and change his command

to me.

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

> I can categorically declare one thing with utmost confidence. You pick any

weekday or tithi and take a vow to fast or do mouna vrata (remain silent) on

that weekday or tithi and meditate with a particular mantra (any) at the end of

the day. You can take a vow to keep that practice for a certain duration of time

(say, a few months or years) for a specific purpose. Take a vow and keep the

vrata for the duration. If brahmacharya can be kept for the duration of the

vrata, there is nothing like it!

>

> [sanjay Rath:] This is a fine statement but then you seem to be saying that

the Puranas and other teachings of the seers is of not much relevance. Of course

you are right as it will be spiritually beneficial. For example, a person

wishing to marry should not fast on UL days and should choose any day (all days

are the same) or any tithi (all tithi are the same) and start fasting and do a

mantra (any mantra!!) and then in a few days, or (maybe) a few months (or maybe)

a few years ... or maybe (what you did not say), a few lifetimes, the marriage

will happen! I cannot say you are wrong, so I agree that what you say is right.

 

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

[Narasimha] This is a gross exaggeration.

 

Is all that is being taught and practiced now strictly from " Puranas and other

teachings of the seers " ?

 

I did not say all days and tithis are the same. Of course, there is some

difference. But, it is not as big as being made here.

 

To make khoa, whether one uses cow milk or buffalo milk or milk of a brown cow

or a black cow or a Jersey cow or another cow does make some difference. But it

is secondary. To say that " danger " and " serious doshas " (see the quoted mails

for such claims) can be caused by a wrong choice is wrong. To say that a wrong

choice means khoa will take 100 years to make is also a gross exaggeration.

 

The main thing is that you need milk and sugar. If one is confused by endless

claims of khoa making consultants and ends up not making khoa at all, that will

be sad. In such a case, one can simply pick some milk or the other, take sugar

and start cooking khoa. It will take an extra half hour, but the job will be

done.

 

I request Jyotishis to behave responsibly and humbly and not engage in

scare-mongering and say that a speicifc austerity (fasting on a specific weekday

or tithi in a chart) can cause " danger " and " serious doshas " . No wonder some

spiritual teachers look down upon Jyotish and dismiss it. Such unbalanced

attitude and self-importance from us does not help our cause!

 

Yes, Jyotish is helpful, but let us not oversell it or overplay the

importance...

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

> Gem stones may harm when used incorrectly. But, austerities like prayers,

fasting, mouna vrata and brahmacharya will NEVER do you any harm. If your body

can take fasting, you can do it on any weekday or tithi without too many

calculations.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] Brahmacharya is good for someone planning to have a baby or

one who cannot conceive and this is kept for some period before the appointed

date of nisheka. Brahmacharya is good for marriage?! I think you are mistaking

abstinence from physical union as Brahmacharya. Oh no its so different.

 

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

[Narasimha] Of course, brahmacharya is much more, but also very difficult for

most. Even physical celibacy is a good enough austerity. Physical celibacy over

an extended period of time increases the efficacy of other austerities such as

fasting, mouna vrata, meditation and homam.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

Spirituality:

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

 

sohamsa , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath wrote:

>

> om paramesthi gurave namah

>

> Dear Narasimha

>

> Just added a few thoughts and questions since we are on the topic of

spirituality, which is not my forte. So I am always seeking to learn.

>

> With Warm Regards

>

> Sanjay Rath

>

> http://srath.com http://sohamsa.com http://.org

>

> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India

>

> sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of

Narasimha PVR Rao

> 06 February 2009 00:48

> sohamsa

> Cc:

> Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING

>

> Namaste friends,

>

> I would like to express my reservations on a couple of issues. It is funny

that I should be typing this email on an Ekadashi day, when many Vaishnavas fast

irrespective of their horoscopes.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I write on dvadasi when so many vasihnava also fast and keep

great austerities. J Any difference?

>

> > >> Here is my point and view about the question raised. 2nd bhava is

> > >> the bhava of Vishnu, sustainer, and if we fast on the day of UL in

> > >> 2nd house, we bring insult to Vishnu who provides the food for us.

>

> My dear Zoran, please allow me to express my disagreement.

>

> Austerities can never be seen as an insult to Vishnu. Self-deprivation of

2nd house matters such as food (fasting) or speech (mouna vrata - vow of

silence) are austerities. Giving up food or speech is not an insult to Vishnu

just as giving up sex (i.e. brahmacharya) is not an insult to Sukracharya

(Venus).

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I though Brahma was very angry that his sons decided not to

have progeny and stayed celibate. So He created others. Why was Brahma angry

when his sons remained celibate? Why should Sukracharya be angry if someone is

celibate? How is it an insult or not an insult to Sukracharya? You are taking

planet signification of Venus for 7H ...and linking this to creation

process...which is wrong Narasimha. Brahma is seen from lords of dusthana 6, 8

and 12 from lagna or 7th which is....you know this.There is nothing wrong with

the 7th house as it is necessary for procreation. It is only the link of this

with the Brahma graha that causes it to become a serious shad-ripu. Married

people are as eligible for moksha as unmarried ones and bachelors. It depends on

the following of dharma and ashrama.

>

> Various gods bestow various things on us, some at the gross physical level

and some at the subtle spiritual level. As we overcome our dependendency on

gross things, we make progress at the subtle level.

>

> If one eats food, a good amount of internal fire (and subtle internal energy

associated with it) is used for digesting it and for generating physical energy

from it. If one fasts, that subtle energy is unused and available for other

things. This is a tremendous benefit. As a result, one can better digest mantras

and spiritual food available all around one.

>

> The mantra one meditates with at the end of a day's fasting is far more

effective than at other times. The conservation of energy otherwise spent on

digestion or speech will enable far more effective mantra meditation. So fast or

keep mouna and then meditate with a mantra, to maximize the effect of the

mantra.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I do not agree with this. Correct eating is the best blessing

for good mantra practise. On days when one fasts the mind is troubled by hunger

causing the stomach to burn and churn and this disturbs mantra japa. Correct

eating (alpa aahaara) is many many times better than complete fasting.

>

> > >> However, to be honest, I have not heard this about 2nd lord and

> > >> tithi. The basic point is that Upapada is a rashi and carries energy

> > >> of Vara or day. If you fast on the day ruled by tithi of the 2nd

> > >> lord, you are bringing the jala energy to vara, and gandanta may

> > >> occur, and spouse may come into a danger. So, what is the way out.

>

> Why does a rashi carry the energy of vaara only and not that of the

tithi???? Why does rashi represent vaara or fire?

>

> [sanjay Rath:] Because Raashi were created by Surya and for doing so Surya

took 12 forms called the Dvadasa Aditya...Narasimha you ask this?? What is

happening?

>

> After all, Rudra rules over the element of fire and Gouri rules over the

element of water and one worships Gouri at the time of marriage. Moreover, Venus

(water) is the karaka for marriage. So one could even say that UL/marriage is

represented by water element and fasting on UL lord's tithi brings the element

of water (prosperity and well-being) to one's marriage (UL)? One could even say

that fasting on the weekday of UL lord should be prohibited as it brings the

fire element represented by weekday to the water of UL and causes " gandanta " !

>

> [sanjay Rath:] UL is the Maya and is associated with the Raashi Narasimha.

It is the 12L which is the creator of the UL...just as the mother Gouri creates

everything through the shakti of the graha, all the arudha are created by her

due to the lordships of the planets. So fasting on the tithi lorded by the 12th

lord will be a *more correct* answer.

>

> Seriously, however, this kind of stretching of gandanta concepts is quite

illogical.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] It is not stretching ... it is the very definition of

gandanta – the interface between fire and water. Put a burning match in a

glass of water, the fire dies...There are other Ganda’s in the chart but

they are not anta (ends). Take Chitra ganda between Kanya and Tula.

>

> Now one more thing: Marriage is a yoga between two souls and why not suggest

fasting on the yoga day of the UL lord?

>

> [sanjay Rath:] What! What a brilliant suggestion...why don’t you

start it?

>

> * * *

>

> > Now suppose instead of 11th house if Mercury goes to 12th house or 4

> > house then you cannot choose Dwadashi or Chaturthi for the same

> > because these thithis are ruled by Mercury only and fasting on these

> > tithis will create serious doshas.

>

> Picking tithi based on house (12th house - Dwadashi, 4th house - Chaturthi)

is illogical as there are 12 houses only and more tithis.

> I have realized one thing over the years - If something is not structurally

sound, it is most likely false knowledge.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] J No comments

>

> * * *

>

> I can categorically declare one thing with utmost confidence. You pick any

weekday or tithi and take a vow to fast or do mouna vrata (remain silent) on

that weekday or tithi and meditate with a particular mantra (any) at the end of

the day. You can take a vow to keep that practice for a certain duration of time

(say, a few months or years) for a specific purpose. Take a vow and keep the

vrata for the duration. If brahmacharya can be kept for the duration of the

vrata, there is nothing like it!

>

> [sanjay Rath:] This is a fine statement but then you seem to be saying that

the Puranas and other teachings of the seers is of not much relevance. Of course

you are right as it will be spiritually beneficial. For example, a person

wishing to marry should not fast on UL days and should choose any day (all days

are the same) or any tithi (all tithi are the same) and start fasting and do a

mantra (any mantra!!) and then in a few days, or (maybe) a few months (or maybe)

a few years ... or maybe (what you did not say), a few lifetimes, the marriage

will happen! I cannot say you are wrong, so I agree that what you say is right.

>

> If you keep such a vrata sincerely, you will make positive progress towards

achieving your purpose and definitely not go backwards, irrespective of what is

said by technical calculations based on our half-baked Jyotish knowledge.

>

> * * *

>

> My friends, use the Jyotish knowledge available, but do realize that it is

imperfect and corrupted. Why is only the UL lord important? So many planets may

have so many kinds of influence on UL in a chart. And UL is one of several

factors showing marriage. There may be various influences in a chart showing

marriage. Is our thumb rule of using UL lord's weekday missing some important

factors? Quite possible!

>

> [sanjay Rath:] That is a very nasty statement. Once again you have used

adjectives (*imperfect, corrupted*) which is not becoming of you. Why must you

use nasty statements? Can’t you say things nicely?

>

> Three years back you said you are leaving jyotish....then again you told me

two years back and again recently that you are leaving jyotish. Now it is

getting very evident that *jyotish is leaving you*. The knowledge of Jyotish is

PERFECT – individuals embody it in different levels of their

understanding and intelligence.

>

> If you have the time to listen to the Jaimini Lectures at

http://sohamsa.com/js/ do so as it will show you the depths of this knowledge

you cannot imagine exists in jyotish. The derivation of the chnhandas and what

not all. Thumb rules are meant for beginners. The day you decided to give up

jyotish, you got stuck in the thumb rules but then its ok with me. I always

wished you the best in whatever you do.

>

> But, despite some arbitrariness and imperfection, if a thumb rule allows you

to pick an austerity with confidence and create the mental feeling that you are

doing the best possible thing for your situation, it is good. After all, what is

critical is to do *some* austerity to burn the blocking karma, with a positive

frame of mind about what you are doing.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] No Narasimha, very happy marriages can happen, without

austerities as well.

>

> But, if endless theorization and complicated technicalities evolving from

the thumb rule are creating doubts and confusion in the minds of people as they

consider an austerity, that is useless and totally missing the point.

>

> Some people tend to resort to heavy theorization based on very shaky

grounds. I suggest going back to the basics, thinking clearly and keeping things

simple.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] Human brains work differently in seeking the truth and means

to remedy the errors. Life is too complicated to keep everything simple. For

example, a heavily cursed Venus can block everything and UL fast may not be able

to solve the problem. Now would you say that heavy thoerization and complication

is happening and we should ignore the other factors completely?

>

> Gem stones may harm when used incorrectly. But, austerities like prayers,

fasting, mouna vrata and brahmacharya will NEVER do you any harm. If your body

can take fasting, you can do it on any weekday or tithi without too many

calculations.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] Brahmacharya is good for someone planning to have a baby or

one who cannot conceive and this is kept for some period before the appointed

date of nisheka. Brahmacharya is good for marriage?! I think you are mistaking

abstinence from physical union as Brahmacharya. Oh no its so different.

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

> -------------------------

> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> Spirituality:

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> -------------------------

>

> sohamsa <sohamsa%40> , Ajay

Zharotia <ajayzharotia@> wrote:

> > ||Om Gurave Namah||

> >

> > Dear Swee, & jyotishis

> >

> > What Zoran is saying is right. Do not mix the energy of day lord

> > (Agni) by choosing the same tithi (jala) that will create serious

> > troubles for the spouse.

> > Let me explain the principle in a simple way so that there should not

> > be any confusion.

> >

> > In your chart (Swee) Vrishabha lagna, UL is in 2nd house. So lord of

> > the UL is the Mercury. Since fasting is prohibited for UL in 2nd

> > house see where the lord of the UL has gone. In your case mercury has

> > gone to the 11th house hence it is Ekadashi. So rule is to choose the

> > tithi is based on the placement of the UL lord.

> >

> > Now suppose instead of 11th house if Mercury goes to 12th house or 4

> > house then you cannot choose Dwadashi or Chaturthi for the same

> > because these thithis are ruled by Mercury only and fasting on these

> > tithis will create serious doshas.

> >

> > If you are doing fasting on the basis of tithis it should be done in

> > sukla paksha only. But if you are doing in Krishna paksha (Pitris)

> > also then it should be combined with the donation.

> >

> > I hope this will clarify the principal.

> >

> > Best Regards

> >

> > Ajay Zharotia

> > ajayzharotia@

> >

> > On Feb 4, 2009, at 12:51 PM, Sanjay Prabhakaran wrote:

> >

> > > || Om Gurave Namah ||

> > > Dear Swee,

> > > Can you please tell me the exact rule to use for fasting on

> > > tithi?.Do we use the 12th lord tithi?, Like if you are Ta lagna,

> > > there 2 tithi one on Triteeya (3) and Ekadasha(11). If we consider

> > > only the paksh in which u are born.

> > > Now of the two which to use?.

> > >

> > > Warm Regards

> > > Sanjay p

> > >

> > > 2009/2/3 Swee Chan <swee@>

> > > Jaya Jagannatha

> > >

> > > Dear Hari, Zoki, et al in this discussion,

> > > Namaste

> > >

> > > The tongue in cheek, I'll excuse ;-)) it's my laugh for the day!!

> > > I fast on ekadasi tithi because my UL is in 2nd house (ie 12th lord

> > > is in lagna). Since I was born on sukla paksha, Sanjay ji suggests

> > > that I fast only on sukla ekadasi.

> > > Zoki, if you listen to JUS of Year I, you will note how Sanjay ji

> > > came to this conclusion.

> > >

> > > love,

> > >

> > > Swee

> > >

> > > On 3 Feb 2009, at 15:25, Jyotisa Shisya wrote:

> > >

> > >> |om|

> > >> Dear Zoran, namaste

> > >>

> > >> Would not the general act of fasting be construed as an insult to

> > >> Sri MahaVishnu?

> > >>

> > >> best regards

> > >> Hari

> > >>

> > >> On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 5:30 PM, ahimsavm <ahimsans@>

> > >> wrote:

> > >> Om Namah Shivaya,

> > >> Dear Bojan and others,

> > >> Here is my point and view about the question raised. 2nd bhava is

> > >> the bhava of Vishnu, sustainer, and if we fast on the day of UL in

> > >> 2nd house, we bring insult to Vishnu who provides the food for us.

> > >> However, to be honest, I have not heard this about 2nd lord and

> > >> tithi. The basic point is that Upapada is a rashi and carries energy

> > >> of Vara or day. If you fast on the day ruled by tithi of the 2nd

> > >> lord, you are bringing the jala energy to vara, and gandanta may

> > >> occur, and spouse may come into a danger. So, what is the way out.

> > >> The simple solution is to do vrata which do not conflict with

> > >> rejection of food. So a person may observe the fast on UL in 2nd

> > >> day, however, adequate food should be offered as a prasad and eaten

> > >> before the Sunrise (not complete fast).In this way, results may come

> > >> a bit later, but will certainly come, while a person will not bring

> > >> insult to Shri Vishnu by rejecting the food.

> > >> This is the way I was taught, and ofcourse others may agree or not.

> > >> Best wishes

> > >> Zoran Radosavljevic

> > >> www.siva-edu.info

> > >> www.ahimsazr1.wordpress.com

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

> > This fixing of attitude is faaaaaaaaaaaar more important than picking the

> > right mantra, right weekday, right tithi etc (that too based on unreliable

> > knowledge coming from questionable sources!).

>

> I agree: fixing of attitude is needed. 'Questionable sources'?Â

> Lets not lose our manners now.

 

If reliable and unquestionable sources can be mentioned for claims that fasting

on certain weekdays or tithis brings " insult to Vishnu " , " serious doshas " and

" danger to spouse " , I can reconsider my statement.

 

> But don't start a vendetta against the vedanga.

 

This is not a vendetta against the vedanga, but a pushback on a mindless spree

of over-theorization and over-selling of unreliable knowledge coming from

questionable sources, which is corrupting the vedanga.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

 

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

Spirituality:

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

 

 

sohamsa , rajarshi nandy <rajarshi14 wrote:

>

> Dear Michal

> Â

> Â

> Can you show us ONE jyotish, ANYONE, who has NEVER made a wrong prediction?

> Â

> -Regards

> Â Rajarshi

>

>

>

> The upsurge (of consciousness) is Bhairava - Shiva Sutra

>

> --- On Mon, 2/3/09, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal wrote:

>

>

> Hare Rama Krsna ||

>

> Dear Narasimhaaaaaaaaa,

>

> This fixing of attitude is faaaaaaaaaaaar more important than picking the

right mantra, right weekday, right tithi etc (that too based on unreliable

knowledge coming from questionable sources!).

>

> I agree: fixing of attitude is needed. 'Questionable sources'? Lets not

lose our manners now.

>

> Jyotish is the study of time. Right weekday, right tithi etc. is important

for Jyotish. Why deny or try to downplay this and promote your own

preaching? Do you feel that your skills and proficiency in the subject are

lacking so you attack the subject instead of addressing your own shortcomings?Â

You made a bold prediction about the US Presidential election, when it was

totally wrong you blamed the birth data despite explicitly stating that you had

verified the times satisfactorily. We are all here to learn. But don't

start a vendetta against the vedanga.

>

> Here is a nice quote about psychological projection:

>

> " Psychological projection is a defense mechanism in which one attributes one's

own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts and/or emotions to others. It occurs

when a person's own unacceptable or threatening feelings are repressed and then

attributed to someone else.

> " An example of such simple behavior would be: blame for failure, making an

excuse for your own faults by projecting the cause of said failure onto someone

else, hence blaming them and not accepting the reality of the failure.

> " Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted

subconscious impulses or desires without letting the conscious mind recognize

them " .

>

> The source? The mystical and occult wikipaedia!

>

> Warm regards,

> Michal

>

>

>

>

>

> Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net>

> ; vedic astrology;

; sohamsa@ .com

> Monday, 2 March, 2009 11:12:45 AM

> Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)

>

>

>

> 

> Dear Sanjay,

> Â

> > Mantra Shastra is a very detailed work and includes mantra dosha etc.

> > It is very scientific and accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this.

> Â

> Some may be fascinated by the texture, color and volume of the chaff and miss

the grain.

> Â

> Most people who talk about mantra shastra focus on the chaff and not on the

grain.

> Â

> > You talk of begging God vs commanding God? Now where did that come from?

> > How is it related to what is under discussion. Perhaps I have missed many

> > mails and am not able to get the context. Trying to command God is

> > *BLACK MAGIC* and this is detestable to say the least. The attitude should

> > always be that of a beggar in front of God. If anyone has said otherwise, I

> > also disagee with him/her.

> Â

> I mentioned the above with respect to the need of thousands of mantras and

technicalities. If one does not want to command god and wants to be a beggar who

will take whatever is given, there is no need for thousands of mantras and all

the umpteen technicalities. These thousands of mantras and umpteen

technicalities are for commanding thousands of different results from god. That

is why I talked of commanding vs begging. However, this commanding works

slightly differently than one may imagine. I will elaborate.

> Â

> Also, commanding god is NOT black magic. Commanding low level beings is black

magic, which can be accomplished even by a person not quite elevated spiritually

and suffering from a heavy ego. However, commanding higher beings such as gods

is possible only for a spiritually elevated person with no or extremely small

ego. This commanding that I am referring to is not an egoistic achievement. In

fact, an egoist cannot achieve it. Only a person succeeding in completely

effacing individual ego can achieve this commanding! I will repeat something

from the previous mail to clarify:

> Â

>

> The universe has many lokas (planes of consciousness) , many beings and many

objects. There are infinite karmic interactions possible between them.

Accordingly, there are infinite possible mantras. When one is able to perfectly

control the mind and *fill it* with a mantra (i.e. no thoughts but the mantra

reverberating in the mind constantly), then one experiences the mantra. This

perfect absorption of self-awareness in the mantra then causes internal

changes by the flow of energy internally in specific ways (specific to the

mantra) and that causes corresponding external changes in the universe and

corresponding karmic interactions between various objects.

> Â

> Each set of " karmic interactions between various objects " is a " result " .

Various mantras are for various " results " . One may term merging self-awareness

in a mantra fully and getting a specific result from it as " commanding a result "

from god. Whether you like the term or not, it is essentially that.

> Â

> *Â Â Â Â Â Â Â *Â Â Â Â Â Â Â *

> Â

> But the bottomline is this: Only a highly purified sadhaka of very low ego can

command specific results from god (not for selfishness or even ego satisfaction,

but acting as an unattached instrument of Nature fulfilling one's dharma set

by Nature). Various mantras and technicalities of mantra shastra taught by

rishis are meant for such sadhakas.

> Â

> Those are hardly of use to so many people out there with dense egos seeking

specific selfish results. They cannot command specific results from god (because

of their heavy attachment to the result, which is in turn due to their own

attachment to a limited ego), even if they use all the techniques of mantra

shastra and all the associated rules of astrology. Instead of wasting their time

with these technicalities, they will be better off learning to be good beggars

at God's door.

> Â

> Just pick any prasiddha mantra or a mantra you feel attracted to, without

worrying about so many technicalities, and learn to be humble and surrender to

the Lord. Patiently wait for him to give you what you want. Like a beggar, take

whatever and whenever he gives.

> Â

> Keep praying every day or every second when you are able to. Even when you are

not praying, remember him in all of your actions. When you enjoy something in

the material world, tell yourself that it is his and that he gave it to you.

If you remember him all the time, slowly the dirt in your mind will start to get

cleaned. This fixing of attitude is faaaaaaaaaaaar more important than picking

the right mantra, right weekday, right tithi etc (that too based on unreliable

knowledge coming from questionable sources!).

> Â

> *Â Â Â Â Â Â Â *Â Â Â Â Â Â Â *

> Â

> There may be a mountain with thousands of paths (mantra)Â for climbing it.

Each path may lead to a different spot (different experience) on the top and

show a different scenery (result). Expert advisors (astrologers) may tell you to

use a specific path (mantra) to see a specific scenery (result). But such advice

is useless to a handicapped person without legs (a selfish person with dense

ego). It is relevant only to person with legs and one who is strong and sturdy,

who can successfully climb the mountain (a reasonably detached person with very

little ego).

> Â

> Even when you encounter a person who has legs and can actually climb the

mountain, the stress should be on how to climb the mountain and traverse the

long path, rather than which path to take. The astrologers who are bogged down

by all the technicalities and people who take customized mantra advice from

astrologers and think that they will get a result quickly by doing that

'powerful' mantra are missing the basic point. The power of a powerful mantra is

with respect to the experience and result obtained *after* one succeeds with the

mantra. A partcicularly powerful mantra is akin to a path leading to a point

atop the mountain where the view shows a particularly beautiful scenery. But the

bottomline is that you do have to survive the climb along the long path.

> Â

> We need to emphasize the attitude and approach needed for the long climb,

rather than emphasizing the choice of the path based on horoscope. It is worth

noting that so many great spiritual teachers who came in the last century or two

did not emphasize picking the right mantra based on horoscope etc. Instead, they

emphasized having the correct attitude - surrender, submission, devotion,

patience, persistence, discipline, humility etc!!!! *That* is a lot more

important and useful than trying to be oversmart with the choice of mantra, day

etc and impress god.

> Â

>

> *Â Â Â Â Â Â Â *Â Â Â Â Â Â Â *

> Â

> > when should the worship of a graha be done? Let us say someone

> > wishes to worship Mars (Mangala graha). When do you think this

> > worship should be done?

> Â

> You can do anyday. Parasara does not mention any day for doing homam to a

graha.

> Â

> In fact, if one wants, one can do a homam or worship to Mars (or any planet)

every day. It is even better that way.

> Â

> If an astrologer suggests doing it on a Tuesday, it is fine. But saying that

doing it on so and so day will bring serious dangers because Mars is an enemy of

so and so planet would be stretching things.

> Â

> > [sanjay Rath:] Where do you think Veda Vyasa (Krishna dvaipaayana) got his

> > knowledge and those who wrote it as scribes for him, where did they get it

from?

> Â

> From Self -Â from within. That is the source of all knowledge. A sadguru need

not specifically teach thousand things, but needs to open the door inside.

> Â

> *Â Â Â Â Â Â Â *Â Â Â Â Â Â Â *

> Â

> > OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for Gandanta being in 0 deg,

> > 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a junction between agni

> > and jala...I want to her your words if you have any.

> Â

> Parasara's definition of gandanta is restricted to two neighboring areas in a

contiguous space having a predominance of fire and water elements. " I see fire

and I see water. So there is gandanta " is a wrong approach. One can then call

Venus, a watery planet, being in a fiery sign or Mars, a fiery planet, being in

a watery sign as gandanta. Gandanta requires a *transition* in a contiguous

space.

> Â

> In your example of upapada lord's tithi, there is no contiguous space where

there is a water-fire transition.

> Â

> > Now somewhere you talked of wasting time!!! Look what you are doing.

> > You were asked to work on Parashara by your Spiritual Master, and

> > are you doing that? Me10, Ve7, Ve6...good research but is that from

> > Parashara?Â

> Â

> Well, Me10, Ve7 etc theory is based on marrying two different teachings of

Parasara (bhava karakas and special lagnas). I do not really consider it as my

creation but as understanding Parasara's teachings only.

> Â

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana

> Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Â

> Â

> sohamsa@ .com, " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> wrote:

> >

> > om paramesthi gurave namah

> >

> > Dear Narasimha,

> >

> > I read this mail twice. OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for

Gandanta being in 0 deg, 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a

junction between agni and jala...I want to her your words if you have any. You

keep saying Parasara says so and yet there is nothing forthcoming.

> >

> > The rashi is associated with the Aditya as the rashi come into existence

because of the Sun, which is the agni tattva. Vara is also agni tattva among the

panchanga of Jyotisha. That is why Vaara is related to rashi. Karma has been

advised in the vaara of the lords of the rashi or the hora of the lords of the

rashi related to a bhaava and for this reason, fasting and other such karma

related to rashi are also based on this. [see Prashna Marga for details].

> >

> > Moon is the significator of the Aroodha. It is the *emotional content*

related to the maya manifestation of everything in life. Suffering is caused as

we do not fathom the karma associated that resulted in suffering and fasting is

a a means of self punishment and correction related to the raashi where the

aroodha is. Just as Agni has the purity to burn the root of sin, fasting on

vaara related to the UL is surely going to cleanse the sins associated with the

suffering in it. While this may not give a 100% satisfaction as the *moon*

content has not been addressed, at least the initiation of the aroodha occurs

and people find their partners, get married and get along with life. Proof lies

in the pudding and with so many cases where people have fasted on UL days and

have got result, we have found faith in these teachings reinforced. Why fast?

Fasting on vaara is a means to correcting the flaw associated with the raashi.

Raashi is a quantity and hence it

> is related to the material effects of the bhava and that is what people are

looking for when they come to th astrologer. You have done well to recall my

teachings in this – remember what I taught –

Men should worship a female deity and women shold worship a male deity for the

UL fasting. I wonder if they really follow this.

> >

> > Why not give fasting at night instead of day? Sun is always good for the

Upapada (Jaimini etc) and that is why we have limited this to day fasting and

not night fasting as well or 24 hour fast. This is my interpolation. [ satisfied

J ] Elders would have given long periods of fast starting from the vaara, like

keeping 21 days fast for the birth of child! You think I should be doing that!

You think anyone will lsiten. Try it yourself before asking me to advise those

hard penance kind of fasts.

> >

> > Who says the Moon has nothing to do with the arudha. It is the sustainer.

Now people to an astrologer when they are looking for getting married and hardly

anyone comes these days asking for prolonging marriage. Either they want to get

into one or get out of one and into another...astrologe rs these days are

relegated to helping people make these transitions painless and fast. Of course

some have come and I have not failed them. I have a ready shloka for this

– start from Taurus in Hamsa gati:

> >

> > Gouri, Kaali, Uma, Bhadraa, Durga, Kanti, Saraswati

> >

> > Mangalaa, Vaishnavi, Lakshmi, Shivaa, Naraayani

> >

> > See I have them ready for the 12 signs in Hamsa Gati from the mool trikona

of Moon in hamsa gati

> >

> > Mantra Shastra is a very detailed work and includes mantra dosha etc. It is

very scientific and accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this.

> >

> > You talk of begging God vs commanding God? Now where did that come from? How

is it related to what is under discussion. Perhaps I have missed many mails and

am not able to get the context. Trying to command God is *BLACK MAGIC* and this

is detestable to say the least. The attitude should always be that of a beggar

in front of God. If anyone has said otherwise, I also disagee with him/her.

> >

> > Prasiddha mantras always give result, even without initiation and who knows

how ready a person is for initation. So I prefer sticking to prasiddha mantras

with people who do not have initiations. This is there in VRA also.

> >

> > I have some questions where I have doubts about what you say. It is belowÂ

your mail.

> >

> > With Warm Regards

> >

> > Sanjay Rath

> >

> > http://srath. com http://sohamsa. com http:// .org

> >

> > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India

> >

> > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf

Of Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

> > 15 February 2009 09:34

> > sohamsa@ .com; Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

> > Cc: vedic astrology;

> > On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)

> >

> >  > Statement 1 is an arrogance that the entire Jyotisha shastra

is bogus

> >

> > > and has no relevance as the remedial measures prescribed by

> >

> > > Parasara and others to be done on specific days are irrlevant and

> >

> > > not of much consequence.

> >

> > First of all, Parasara did *not* prescribe fasting on specific weekdays or

tithis based on any arudhas or houses in a chart.

> >

> > For doshas in birth chart or to get relief from planetary afflictions or to

get the blessings of planets, he suggested various *homas* (fire rituals) and

described how to perform them. His section on remedial measures is full of

various homas. I am not dismissing those remedies taught by Parasara himself and

I am in fact slowly preparing manuals on them so that anybody can do them by

themselves.

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] what about the Puranas? Have you gone through the Navagraha

mantras given in the Garuda Purana and other puranic literature?

> >

> > Parasara did *not* specify the weekday or tithi for most of these homas

(e.g. planetary homas). Only for homas for specific birth doshas (e.g. Amavasya

dosha or Moola dosha), he fixed the tithi or nakshatra based on the dosha and

the deity. But the days are not based on any house or arudha in the chart.

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] If Amavasya dosha is to be performed on Amavasya, when should

the worship of a graha be done? Let us say someone wishes to worship Mars

(Mangala graha). When do you think this worship should be done?

> >

> > Thus, the principles I am questioning are *not* from Parasara.

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] Where do you think Veda Vyasa (Krishna dvaipaayana) got his

knowledge and those who wrote it as scribes for him, where did they get it from?

> >

> > Second, I said what I said in a *context*. People are mentioning complicated

principles that are not found in classics or works of rishis and scaring people

that performing austerities such as fasting on certain days cause " danger to

spouse " or " serious doshas " or " insult to Vishnu " , based on horoscope. I find

these principles illogical and based on hasty thinking. There may be a little

difference between doing an austerity on different days, but my point is that it

is smaller compared to the difference between doing and not doing at all and

that doing it on a " wrong day " does not cause danger as being suggested.

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] I am sorry. I missed the context and just saw some mails that

were forwarded to me amidst my writing. But them its always a pleasure to talk

to you as in that many many have benefitted, and that includes us as well.

> >

> > Third, our shastras primarily talk about worshipping various deities on

various days, based on the energy of the *deity*. For worshipping a certain

deity, certain tithi or weekday or nakshatra is better than others. This is

based on the deity and irrespective of the person worshipping. Let me give an

analogy. If a rich man comes out with more money to give to beggars on a

specific day, a beggar is better off going and begging on that day. Schedule and

mood of the giver is more important.

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] That’s not right...at least people who read

this will think. Let’s say Shiva worship on Mondays. Shiva is

the pratyadhi devata of the Sun and is not worshipped on Sundays but on Mondays.

NOTE – a day after Sunday! Similarly Narayana is the pratyadhi

devata of Mercury and is worshipped on Thursdays instead of Wednesdays. NOTE

– again a day after! So what happened to the energy equation? J

> >

> > Choosing the day of a remedy based on the deity is more important and the

variations based on individual horoscope are less important. I am not saying

there are no horoscopic variations. But they are smaller and, more importantly,

I question if they are actually well-understood by astrologers today to apply

*reliably*. I question over-emphasizing and over-selling unreliable principles

of questionable origin and scaring people on that basis.

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] To this I can agree as many have not understood even the

basics of Sanatana dharma! Some behave as if there is a battle going on between

Shiva and Vishnu – it’s hilarious to see how

these are just attempts to convert Hinduism into a religion they have left

rather than trying to learn what Hinduism means. Being newly converted there is

a bellicose patriotism in them to prove their faith to the *new god* they have

found and every other God must be the devil in disguise!! It will take years for

many to learn that there is no devil. It’s a figment of their

imagination and whatever is devilish is the dark side of mankind himself.

> >

> > *Â Â Â Â Â Â Â *Â Â Â Â Â Â Â *

> >

> > > Statement 2 is an arrogance that the entire mantra shastra is useless

> >

> > > and the Rishi’s were wasting time in

giving so many mantras for

> >

> > > the same devata, like say thousands of mantras for Vishnu or Hanuman

> >

> > > when any one mantra would suffice. OR it is like saying that we can

> >

> > > take paracetamol and pray that cancer is cured. I think I may have to

> >

> > > write a book on Mantra Shastra to validate the teachings of the vedic

> >

> > > seers.

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] I got your point here. It’s a good point.

> >

> > Now somewhere you talked of wasting time!!! Look what you are doing. You

were asked to work on Parashara by your Spiritual Master, and are you doing

that? Me10, Ve7, Ve6...good research but is that from Parashara?

> >

> > I also know what argument you will give me - J You will say I am already

working on that and have some spare time to do this as well...to which I will

have nothing to say.

> >

> Â

>

> -

> Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

> sohamsa@ .com ; Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

> Cc: vedic astrology ;

> Saturday, February 14, 2009 11:03 PM

> On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)

>

>

> Dear Sanjay,

> Â

> > Since you do not have any real definition of Gandanta, I am dropping that

> Â

> I do have a definition of gandanta, which is Parasara's definition in BPHS.

> Â

> Since some of you are extrapolating it based on the fire embodied in UL and

water embodied in tithis, the onus is on you to outline and justify your

definition. I got into this thread because statements were made that fasting on

particular weekdays or tithis in a chart can cause " insult to Vishnu " , " serious

doshas " and " danger to spouse " , based on these far-fetched extrapolations of

gandanta.

> Â

> > Which is perfectly in line with everything I have learnt.

> Â

> Well, you once taught that houses represent Sun/Shiva/truth and arudhas

represent Moon/Gouri/percepti on. That was meaningful. Now, you associated UL,

an arudha, with Sun and fire and 12th, a house, with Gouri and water. I question

whether the new theory on fasting is really in line with everything you have

learnt (and taught).

> Â

> BTW, I specifically asked for a clarification on whether this was based on

your own thinking or from classics/parampara (see quoted mail below for the full

context). Like so many times with similar questions I asked privately and

recently publicly, you did not respond.

> Â

> *Â Â Â Â Â Â Â *Â Â Â Â Â Â Â *

> Â

> > Statement 1 is an arrogance that the entire Jyotisha shastra is bogus

> > and has no relevance as the remedial measures prescribed by

> > Parasara and others to be done on specific days are irrlevant and

> > not of much consequence.

> Â

> First of all, Parasara did *not* prescribe fasting on specific weekdays or

tithis based on any arudhas or houses in a chart.

> Â

> For doshas in birth chart or to get relief from planetary afflictions or to

get the blessings of planets, he suggested various *homas* (fire rituals) and

described how to perform them. His section on remedial measures is full of

various homas. I am not dismissing those remedies taught by Parasara himself and

I am in fact slowly preparing manuals on them so that anybody can do them by

themselves.

> Â

> Parasara did *not* specify the weekday or tithi for most of these homas (e.g.

planetary homas). Only for homas for specific birth doshas (e.g. Amavasya dosha

or Moola dosha), he fixed the tithi or nakshatra based on the dosha and the

deity. But the days are not based on any house or arudha in the chart.

> Â

> Thus, the principles I am questioning are *not* from Parasara.

> Â

> Second, I said what I said in a *context*. People are mentioning complicated

principles that are not found in classics or works of rishis and scaring people

that performing austerities such as fasting on certain days cause " danger to

spouse " or " serious doshas " or " insult to Vishnu " , based on horoscope. I find

these principles illogical and based on hasty thinking. There may be a little

difference between doing an austerity on different days, but my point is that it

is smaller compared to the difference between doing and not doing at all and

that doing it on a " wrong day " does not cause danger as being suggested.

> Â

> Third, our shastras primarily talk about worshipping various deities on

various days, based on the energy of the *deity*. For worshipping a certain

deity, certain tithi or weekday or nakshatra is better than others. This is

based on the deity and irrespective of the person worshipping. Let me give an

analogy. If a rich man comes out with more money to give to beggars on a

specific day, a beggar is better off going and begging on that day. Schedule and

mood of the giver is more important.

> Â

> Choosing the day of a remedy based on the deity is more important and the

variations based on individual horoscope are less important. I am not saying

there are no horoscopic variations. But they are smaller and, more

importantly, I question if they are actually well-understood by astrologersÂ

today to apply *reliably*. I question over-emphasizing and over-selling

unreliable principles of questionable origin and scaring people on that basis.

> Â

> *Â Â Â Â Â Â Â *Â Â Â Â Â Â Â *

> Â

> > Statement 2 is an arrogance that the entire mantra shastra is useless

> > and the Rishi’s were wasting time in giving so many mantras

for

> > the same devata, like say thousands of mantras for Vishnu or Hanuman

> > when any one mantra would suffice. OR it is like saying that we can

> > take paracetamol and pray that cancer is cured. I think I may have to

> > write a book on Mantra Shastra to validate the teachings of the vedic

> > seers.

> Â

> I did not say it is " useless " . Instead, I suggest that our ability to use it

is limited and we should take our limitations into consideration.

> Â

> The universe has many lokas (planes of consciousness) , many beings and many

objects. There are infinite karmic interactions possible between them.

Accordingly, there are infinite possible mantras. When one is able to perfectly

control the mind and *fill it* with a mantra (i.e. no thoughts but the mantra

reverberating in the mind constantly), then one experiences the mantra. This

perfect absorption of self-awareness in the mantra then causes internal

changes by the flow of energy internally in specific ways (specific to the

mantra) and that causes corresponding external changes in the universe and

corresponding karmic interactions between various objects.

> Â

> However, this variety of mantras, experiences and results is irrelevant to one

who does not have such perfect control over the mind to absorb the mind fully in

a mantra. It is relevant only to a seer whose self-awareness is quite evolved

and hence control over mind impeccable. Such seers are extremely extremely rare

today. Most people are unable to experience any mantra and mantras do not work

for them as they are supposed to.

> Â

> *Â Â Â Â Â Â Â *Â Â Â Â Â Â Â *

> Â

> Just repeating a combination of sounds does not guarantee anything. Some

people may think that certain results come when they repeat a mantra certain

number of times. That is an incorrect notion. A mantra may work for one person

quickly and another may spend the whole life chanting it and nothing may happen.

Absorption of the entire mind into a mantra is needed for a mantra to really

work and it is much more difficult than one may think.

> Â

> *Â Â Â Â Â Â Â *Â Â Â Â Â Â Â *

> Â

> A highly learned scholar in the court of a king may be able to command the

king and get whatever he wants from king. An incapable one is better off begging

the king, rather than trying to command (and failing for sure).

> Â

> Similarly, most people are better off begging god for what they want rather

than trying to use the right mantra to command what they want. A beggar does not

need a huge vocabulary or great scholarship or knowledge. Feeling of humility

and helplessness, surrender, patience and persistence are what help a beggar

succeed. A beggar needs the right attitude rather than knowledge. In this age

and time, best bet for most people is to learn to be a good beggar at god's

door.

> Â

> What people today need for material and spiritual progress through remedial

measures is a better attitude in begging god rather than a better choice of

tools such as mantras and other specifics such as weekday, tithi etc to command

a specific result from god.

> Â

> It is worth noting that so many great spiritual teachers who came in the last

century or two did not emphasize picking the right mantra based on horoscope

etc. Instead, they emphasized having the correct attitude - surrender,

submission, devotion, patience, persistence, discipline, humility etc. *That*

is a lot more important and useful than trying to be oversmart with the choice

of mantra, day etc and impress god.

> Â

> *Â Â Â Â Â Â Â *Â Â Â Â Â Â Â *

> Â

> One more thing. We have many mantras given by rishis, but the guidelines

from rishis like Parasara on how to pick a mantra based on the horoscope are

very limited. Astrologers today do not operate solely based on them. They use

all kinds of other rules coming from various traditions. They are not free from

corruption and imperfection. Most scriptures associate various mantras with

various results, irrespective of horoscope. For example, irrespective of who is

the 6th lord and 8th lord and lord of A6 and A8, Rina Vimochaka Angaraka mantra

is good for debt control. And so on. Linking of horoscope is overplayed by

today's astrologers, way beyond the scope of Parasara's guidelines.

> Â

> If one has a sadguru, I recommend following the word of sadguru rather than

that of an astrology theoretician.

> Â

> If not, there is no foolproof way to know the right path. Pick any path (given

by an astrologer or one that you feel attracted to) instead of wasting time and

then keep working on your attitude. The latter is the key. As I said earlier,

learn to be a humble beggar at god's door. Choice of Mantra is secondary and

attitude is primary. If you succeed in being a really humble beggar, you stand a

better chance of success than great scholars.

> Â

>

> Any prasiddha mantra (e.g. ashtakshari, panchakshari, dwadasakshari,

navakshari, vishnu sahasranaam, rudram, hare krishna maha mantra, chandipath,

ganapati atharva seersham, mrityunjaya mantra etc) can help one make progress

if one develops the right attitude. Without the right attitude, even an

impeaccably picked mantra will do nothing.

> Â

> *Â Â Â Â Â Â Â *Â Â Â Â Â Â Â *

> Â

> I hope this sufficiently clarifies my stand. I discuss these matters related

to spiritual sadhana more on the . Some writings are

sampled at http://www.vedicast rologer.org/ homam/writings. htm.

> Â

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana

> Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

>

>

> om paramesthi gurave namah

> Â

> Dear Narasimha,

> Â

> Since you do not have any real definition of Gandanta, I am dropping that and

continue with my belief of the junction between Agni and Jala rasi as the case

of gandanta and the loka junctions. Which is perfectly in line with everything I

have learnt.

> Â

> Two statements you have made contradict standard texts on Jyotish and Mantra

Shastra. Please correct me if I am not understanding you well out here -

> Â

> 1. Statement 1: *fasting on any day or any tithi* is good so long as the

sankalpa has been made for the devata you intend to pray to. Results maybe a bit

delayed but will be there.

> 2. Statement 2: *reciting any prayer* will give the desired effects for any

ailment we wish to remedy

> Â

> Is this what you intended to say or did I get this wrong?

> Â

> Statement 1 is an arrogance that the entire Jyotisha shastra is bogus and has

no relevance as the remedial measures prescribed by Parasara and others to be

done on specific days are irrlevant and not of much consequence. This sounds

like another astrologer I had known some time back whose statements like this

coerced me to write Vedic Remedies in Astrology so that people are not misled

but such pretexts to knowledge.

> Â

> Statement 2 is an arrogance that the entire mantra shastra is useless and the

Rishi’s were wasting time in giving so many mantras for the

same devata, like say thousands of mantras for Vishnu or Hanuman when any one

mantra would suffice. OR it is like saying that we can take paracetamol and pray

that cancer is cured. I think I may have to write a book on Mantra Shastra to

validate the teachings of the vedic seers.

> Â

> I think there is something wrong in the way you are saying what you want to

say. Please rethink and correct your statements for the sake of good record in

this list.

> Â

> With Warm Regards

> Sanjay Rath

> http://srath. com http://sohamsa. com http:// .org

> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India

> Â

> -

> Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

> sohamsa@ .com

> Sunday, February 08, 2009 12:03 PM

> Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING

>

>

> Namaste Sanjay and friends,

> Â

> My answers are in red and prefixed with " [Narasimha] " .

> Â

> <<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<Â

> > > >> tithi. The basic point is that Upapada is a rashi and carries energy

> > > >> of Vara or day. If you fast on the day ruled by tithi of the 2nd

> > > >> lord, you are bringing the jala energy to vara, and gandanta may

> > > >> occur, and spouse may come into a danger. So, what is the way out.

> >

> > Why does a rashi carry the energy of vaara only and not that of the

tithi???? Why does rashi represent vaara or fire?

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] Because Raashi were created by Surya and for doing so Surya

took 12 forms called the Dvadasa Aditya...Narasimha you ask this?? What is

happening?

> >

> > After all, Rudra rules over the element of fire and Gouri rules over the

element of water and one worships Gouri at the time of marriage. Moreover, Venus

(water) is the karaka for marriage. So one could even say that UL/marriage is

represented by water element and fasting on UL lord's tithi brings the element

of water (prosperity and well-being) to one's marriage (UL)? One could even say

that fasting on the weekday of UL lord should be prohibited as it brings the

fire element represented by weekday to the water of UL and causes " gandanta " !

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] UL is the Maya and is associated with the Raashi Narasimha.

It is the 12L which is the creator of the UL...just as the mother Gouri creates

everything through the shakti of the graha, all the arudha are created by her

due to the lordships of the planets. So fasting on the tithi lorded by the 12th

lord will be a *more correct* answer.

> >>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

> Â

> [Narasimha] We always say that houses (truth) are represented by Sun (aatman)

and arudha padas (maya) by Moon (mind).

> Â

> Thus, 12th house is the actual creator and UL is the apparent creator in the

field of maya. Houses (truth) should actually be associated with Sun (aatman)

and Shiva (and not Gouri), while arudha padas (perception) should actually be

associated with Moon (mind) and Gouri. After all, that is what we do in the

tripod method in dasa judgment.

> Â

> Thus, it is actually more logical to say that 12th house and 12th lord imbibe

the agni tattva of Sun and UL and UL lord imbibe the jala tattva of Moon.

> Â

> Is the above " *more correct* answer " based on your own thinking or is it from

a classic or from tradition?

> Â

>

> <<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<Â

> > The mantra one meditates with at the end of a day's fasting is far more

effective than at other times. The conservation of energy otherwise spent on

digestion or speech will enable far more effective mantra meditation. So fast or

keep mouna and then meditate with a mantra, to maximize the effect of the

mantra.

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] I do not agree with this. Correct eating is the best blessing

for good mantra practise. On days when one fasts the mind is troubled by hunger

causing the stomach to burn and churn and this disturbs mantra japa. Correct

eating (alpa aahaara) is many many times better than complete fasting.

>

> >>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

> Â

> [Narasimha] Well, if one cannot fast, then one is destined to expend some

energy on digestion after all and not focus all energy on the mantra. But the

bottomline is that shastras say that one should meditate either without or with

very little food (niraahaaro mitaahaaro). In any case, I hope we agree that

meditation sessions after heavy eating are heavily restrained in effectiveness.

> Â

>

>

> <<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<Â > Seriously, however, this kind of stretching of

gandanta concepts is quite illogical.

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] It is not stretching ... it is the very definition of

gandanta – the interface between fire and water. Put a burning

match in a glass of water, the fire dies...There are other

Ganda’s in the chart but they are not anta (ends). Take Chitra

ganda between Kanya and Tula.

>

> >>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

> Â

> [Narasimha] Putting a burning match in a glass of water does indeed kill

fire. But the question is of contact. If I am thinking of fire in my mind while

standing in water, it does not kill the fire. There is no contact.

> Â

> My point is that the examples given have no real identifiable contact between

water and fire.

> Â

> One can be creative and come up with a lot of theories. For example, one can

say that Moon and Venus are jala tattva and all rasis show agni tattva (then why

are some rasis marked as agni rasis and some as water rasis etc) and hence the

sign occupied by Moon and Venus cause contact between water and fire. Then one

can say fasting on the weekdays of the dispositors of Moon and Venus causes

gandanta and serious danger.

> Â

> It is not enough to show some fire and some water. See what counts as contact.

Otherwise, one will engage in illogical extrapolations.

> Â

> <<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<Â

>

>

> > Three years back you said you are leaving jyotish....then again you told me

two years back and again recently that you are leaving jyotish. Now it is

getting very evident that *jyotish is leaving you*. The knowledge of Jyotish is

PERFECT – individuals embody it in different levels of their

understanding and intelligence.

>

> >>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

> Â

>

> [Narasimha] Nothing is permanent. What is one's cannot be taken away. And one

cannot cling on to what is not one's. Some rejoice when it seems like something

comes and cry when it seems like something leaves. Some impassionately observe

as things seem to come and go and do what they see as their dharma with the

things they seem to have.

>

> Just a factual correction though: I never said I was leaving Jyotish. For a

few years after my spiritual master entered my life, my interest in other things

went down (though I continued to do other things) and my focus on spiritual

sadhana intensified. So I said that my interest in Jyotish was very low.

However, my guru gave me a task later. He wanted me to study the teachings of

Parasara independently, meditate on them and share my interpretations with

the world. He said I was very passionate in my Jyotish activities earlier, and

he wanted me to do the same now but dispassionately and without an attachment.

He felt that I still have a contribution to make to Jyotish and wants me to do

it as an unattached karma. His word is everything for me.

> Â

> What I told you recently is not that I was leaving Jyotish but what I said

above.

> Â

> However, if your judgment is correct and if Jyotish is indeed " leaving "

me, I am sure my spiritual guru will realize it sooner or later and change his

command to me.

> Â

> <<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<Â

>

>

> > I can categorically declare one thing with utmost confidence. You pick any

weekday or tithi and take a vow to fast or do mouna vrata (remain silent) on

that weekday or tithi and meditate with a particular mantra (any) at the end of

the day. You can take a vow to keep that practice for a certain duration of time

(say, a few months or years) for a specific purpose. Take a vow and keep the

vrata for the duration. If brahmacharya can be kept for the duration of the

vrata, there is nothing like it!

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] This is a fine statement but then you seem to be saying

that the Puranas and other teachings of the seers is of not much relevance. Of

course you are right as it will be spiritually beneficial. For example, a person

wishing to marry should not fast on UL days and should choose any day (all days

are the same) or any tithi (all tithi are the same) and start fasting and do a

mantra (any mantra!!) and then in a few days, or (maybe) a few months (or maybe)

a few years ... or maybe (what you did not say), a few lifetimes, the marriage

will happen! I cannot say you are wrong, so I agree that what you say is right.

>

> >>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

> Â

> [Narasimha] This is a gross exaggeration.

> Â

> Is all that is being taught and practiced now strictly from " Puranas and other

teachings of the seers " ?

> Â

> I did not say all days and tithis are the same. Of course, there is some

difference. But, it is not as big as being made here.

> Â

> To make khoa, whether one uses cow milk or buffalo milk or milk of a brown cow

or a black cow or a Jersey cow or another cow does make some difference. But it

is secondary. To say that " danger " and " serious doshas " (see the quoted mails

for such claims)Â can be caused by a wrong choice is wrong. To say that a wrong

choice means khoa will take 100 years to make is also a gross exaggeration.

> Â

> The main thing is that you need milk and sugar. If one is confused by endless

claims of khoa making consultants and ends up not making khoa at all, that will

be sad. In such a case, one can simply pick some milk or the other, take sugar

and start cooking khoa. It will take an extra half hour, but the job will be

done.

> Â

> I request Jyotishis to behave responsibly and humbly and not engage in

scare-mongering and say that a speicifc austerity (fasting on a specific weekday

or tithi in a chart) can cause " danger " and " serious doshas " . No wonder some

spiritual teachers look down upon Jyotish and dismiss it. Such unbalanced

attitude and self-importance from us does not help our cause!

> Â

> Yes, Jyotish is helpful, but let us not oversell it or overplay the

importance.. .

> Â

> <<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<Â

>

>

> > Gem stones may harm when used incorrectly. But, austerities like prayers,

fasting, mouna vrata and brahmacharya will NEVER do you any harm. If your body

can take fasting, you can do it on any weekday or tithi without too many

calculations.

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] Brahmacharya is good for someone planning to have a baby or

one who cannot conceive and this is kept for some period before the appointed

date of nisheka. Brahmacharya is good for marriage?! I think you are mistaking

abstinence from physical union as Brahmacharya. Oh no its so different.

>

> >>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

> Â

> [Narasimha] Of course, brahmacharya is much more, but also very difficult for

most. Even physical celibacy is a good enough austerity. Physical celibacy over

an extended period of time increases the efficacy of other austerities such as

fasting, mouna vrata, meditation and homam.

> Â

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana

> Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Â

> Â

> sohamsa@ .com, " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> wrote:

> >

> > om paramesthi gurave namah

> >

> > Dear Narasimha

> >

> > Just added a few thoughts and questions since we are on the topic of

spirituality, which is not my forte. So I am always seeking to learn.

> >

> > With Warm Regards

> >

> > Sanjay Rath

> >

> > http://srath. com http://sohamsa. com http:// .org

> >

> > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India

> >

> > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf

Of Narasimha PVR Rao

> > 06 February 2009 00:48

> > sohamsa@ .com

> > Cc:

> > Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING

> >

> > Namaste friends,

> >

> > I would like to express my reservations on a couple of issues. It is funny

that I should be typing this email on an Ekadashi day, when many Vaishnavas fast

irrespective of their horoscopes.

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] I write on dvadasi when so many vasihnava also fast and keep

great austerities. J Any difference?

> >

> > > >> Here is my point and view about the question raised. 2nd bhava is

> > > >> the bhava of Vishnu, sustainer, and if we fast on the day of UL in

> > > >> 2nd house, we bring insult to Vishnu who provides the food for us.

> >

> > My dear Zoran, please allow me to express my disagreement.

> >

> > Austerities can never be seen as an insult to Vishnu. Self-deprivation of

2nd house matters such as food (fasting) or speech (mouna vrata - vow of

silence) are austerities. Giving up food or speech is not an insult to Vishnu

just as giving up sex (i.e. brahmacharya) is not an insult to Sukracharya

(Venus).

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] I though Brahma was very angry that his sons decided not to

have progeny and stayed celibate. So He created others. Why was Brahma angry

when his sons remained celibate? Why should Sukracharya be angry if someone is

celibate? How is it an insult or not an insult to Sukracharya? You are taking

planet signification of Venus for 7H ...and linking this to creation

process...which is wrong Narasimha. Brahma is seen from lords of dusthana 6, 8

and 12 from lagna or 7th which is....you know this.There is nothing wrong with

the 7th house as it is necessary for procreation. It is only the link of this

with the Brahma graha that causes it to become a serious shad-ripu. Married

people are as eligible for moksha as unmarried ones and bachelors. It depends on

the following of dharma and ashrama.

> >

> > Various gods bestow various things on us, some at the gross physical level

and some at the subtle spiritual level. As we overcome our dependendency on

gross things, we make progress at the subtle level.

> >

> > If one eats food, a good amount of internal fire (and subtle internal energy

associated with it) is used for digesting it and for generating physical energy

from it. If one fasts, that subtle energy is unused and available for other

things. This is a tremendous benefit. As a result, one can better digest mantras

and spiritual food available all around one.

> >

> > The mantra one meditates with at the end of a day's fasting is far more

effective than at other times. The conservation of energy otherwise spent on

digestion or speech will enable far more effective mantra meditation. So fast or

keep mouna and then meditate with a mantra, to maximize the effect of the

mantra.

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] I do not agree with this. Correct eating is the best blessing

for good mantra practise. On days when one fasts the mind is troubled by hunger

causing the stomach to burn and churn and this disturbs mantra japa. Correct

eating (alpa aahaara) is many many times better than complete fasting.

> >

> > > >> However, to be honest, I have not heard this about 2nd lord and

> > > >> tithi. The basic point is that Upapada is a rashi and carries energy

> > > >> of Vara or day. If you fast on the day ruled by tithi of the 2nd

> > > >> lord, you are bringing the jala energy to vara, and gandanta may

> > > >> occur, and spouse may come into a danger. So, what is the way out.

> >

> > Why does a rashi carry the energy of vaara only and not that of the

tithi???? Why does rashi represent vaara or fire?

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] Because Raashi were created by Surya and for doing so Surya

took 12 forms called the Dvadasa Aditya...Narasimha you ask this?? What is

happening?

> >

> > After all, Rudra rules over the element of fire and Gouri rules over the

element of water and one worships Gouri at the time of marriage. Moreover, Venus

(water) is the karaka for marriage. So one could even say that UL/marriage is

represented by water element and fasting on UL lord's tithi brings the element

of water (prosperity and well-being) to one's marriage (UL)? One could even say

that fasting on the weekday of UL lord should be prohibited as it brings the

fire element represented by weekday to the water of UL and causes " gandanta " !

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] UL is the Maya and is associated with the Raashi Narasimha.

It is the 12L which is the creator of the UL...just as the mother Gouri creates

everything through the shakti of the graha, all the arudha are created by her

due to the lordships of the planets. So fasting on the tithi lorded by the 12th

lord will be a *more correct* answer.

> >

> > Seriously, however, this kind of stretching of gandanta concepts is quite

illogical.

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] It is not stretching ... it is the very definition of

gandanta – the interface between fire and water. Put a burning

match in a glass of water, the fire dies...There are other

Ganda’s in the chart but they are not anta (ends). Take Chitra

ganda between Kanya and Tula.

> >

> > Now one more thing: Marriage is a yoga between two souls and why not suggest

fasting on the yoga day of the UL lord?

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] What! What a brilliant suggestion.. .why

don’t you start it?Â

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > > Now suppose instead of 11th house if Mercury goes to 12th house or 4

> > > house then you cannot choose Dwadashi or Chaturthi for the same

> > > because these thithis are ruled by Mercury only and fasting on these

> > > tithis will create serious doshas.

> >

> > Picking tithi based on house (12th house - Dwadashi, 4th house - Chaturthi)

is illogical as there are 12 houses only and more tithis.

> > I have realized one thing over the years - If something is not structurally

sound, it is most likely false knowledge.

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] J No comments

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > I can categorically declare one thing with utmost confidence. You pick any

weekday or tithi and take a vow to fast or do mouna vrata (remain silent) on

that weekday or tithi and meditate with a particular mantra (any) at the end of

the day. You can take a vow to keep that practice for a certain duration of time

(say, a few months or years) for a specific purpose. Take a vow and keep the

vrata for the duration. If brahmacharya can be kept for the duration of the

vrata, there is nothing like it!

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] This is a fine statement but then you seem to be saying

that the Puranas and other teachings of the seers is of not much relevance. Of

course you are right as it will be spiritually beneficial. For example, a person

wishing to marry should not fast on UL days and should choose any day (all days

are the same) or any tithi (all tithi are the same) and start fasting and do a

mantra (any mantra!!) and then in a few days, or (maybe) a few months (or maybe)

a few years ... or maybe (what you did not say), a few lifetimes, the marriage

will happen! I cannot say you are wrong, so I agree that what you say is right.

> >

> > If you keep such a vrata sincerely, you will make positive progress towards

achieving your purpose and definitely not go backwards, irrespective of what is

said by technical calculations based on our half-baked Jyotish knowledge.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > My friends, use the Jyotish knowledge available, but do realize that it is

imperfect and corrupted. Why is only the UL lord important? So many planets may

have so many kinds of influence on UL in a chart. And UL is one of several

factors showing marriage. There may be various influences in a chart showing

marriage. Is our thumb rule of using UL lord's weekday missing some important

factors? Quite possible!

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] That is a very nasty statement. Once again you have used

adjectives (*imperfect, corrupted*) which is not becoming of you. Why must you

use nasty statements? Can’t you say things nicely?

> >

> > Three years back you said you are leaving jyotish....then again you told me

two years back and again recently that you are leaving jyotish. Now it is

getting very evident that *jyotish is leaving you*. The knowledge of Jyotish is

PERFECT – individuals embody it in different levels of their

understanding and intelligence.

> >

> > If you have the time to listen to the Jaimini Lectures at http://sohamsa.

com/js/ do so as it will show you the depths of this knowledge you cannot

imagine exists in jyotish. The derivation of the chnhandas and what not all.

Thumb rules are meant for beginners. The day you decided to give up jyotish, you

got stuck in the thumb rules but then its ok with me. I always wished you the

best in whatever you do.

> >

> > But, despite some arbitrariness and imperfection, if a thumb rule allows you

to pick an austerity with confidence and create the mental feeling that you are

doing the best possible thing for your situation, it is good. After all, what is

critical is to do *some* austerity to burn the blocking karma, with a positive

frame of mind about what you are doing.

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] No Narasimha, very happy marriages can happen, without

austerities as well.

> >

> > But, if endless theorization and complicated technicalities evolving from

the thumb rule are creating doubts and confusion in the minds of people as they

consider an austerity, that is useless and totally missing the point.

> >

> > Some people tend to resort to heavy theorization based on very shaky

grounds. I suggest going back to the basics, thinking clearly and keeping things

simple.

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] Human brains work differently in seeking the truth and means

to remedy the errors. Life is too complicated to keep everything simple. For

example, a heavily cursed Venus can block everything and UL fast may not be able

to solve the problem. Now would you say that heavy thoerization and complication

is happening and we should ignore the other factors completely?

> >

> > Gem stones may harm when used incorrectly. But, austerities like prayers,

fasting, mouna vrata and brahmacharya will NEVER do you any harm. If your body

can take fasting, you can do it on any weekday or tithi without too many

calculations.

> >

> > [sanjay Rath:] Brahmacharya is good for someone planning to have a baby or

one who cannot conceive and this is kept for some period before the appointed

date of nisheka. Brahmacharya is good for marriage?! I think you are mistaking

abstinence from physical union as Brahmacharya. Oh no its so different.

> >

> > Best regards,

> > Narasimha

> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

> > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana

> > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> >

> > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% 40. com> , Ajay

Zharotia <ajayzharotia@> wrote:

> > > ||Om Gurave Namah||

> > >

> > > Dear Swee, & jyotishis

> > >

> > > What Zoran is saying is right. Do not mix the energy of day lord

> > > (Agni) by choosing the same tithi (jala) that will create serious

> > > troubles for the spouse.

> > > Let me explain the principle in a simple way so that there should not

> > > be any confusion.

> > >

> > > In your chart (Swee) Vrishabha lagna, UL is in 2nd house. So lord of

> > > the UL is the Mercury. Since fasting is prohibited for UL in 2nd

> > > house see where the lord of the UL has gone. In your case mercury has

> > > gone to the 11th house hence it is Ekadashi. So rule is to choose the

> > > tithi is based on the placement of the UL lord.

> > >

> > > Now suppose instead of 11th house if Mercury goes to 12th house or 4

> > > house then you cannot choose Dwadashi or Chaturthi for the same

> > > because these thithis are ruled by Mercury only and fasting on these

> > > tithis will create serious doshas.

> > >

> > > If you are doing fasting on the basis of tithis it should be done in

> > > sukla paksha only. But if you are doing in Krishna paksha (Pitris)

> > > also then it should be combined with the donation.

> > >

> > > I hope this will clarify the principal.

> > >

> > > Best Regards

> > >

> > > Ajay Zharotia

> > > ajayzharotia@

> > >

> > > On Feb 4, 2009, at 12:51 PM, Sanjay Prabhakaran wrote:

> > >

> > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||

> > > > Dear Swee,

> > > > Can you please tell me the exact rule to use for fasting on

> > > > tithi?.Do we use the 12th lord tithi?, Like if you are Ta lagna,

> > > > there 2 tithi one on Triteeya (3) and Ekadasha(11) . If we consider

> > > > only the paksh in which u are born.

> > > > Now of the two which to use?.

> > > >

> > > > Warm Regards

> > > > Sanjay p

> > > >

> > > > 2009/2/3 Swee Chan <swee@>

> > > > Jaya Jagannatha

> > > >

> > > > Dear Hari, Zoki, et al in this discussion,

> > > > Namaste

> > > >

> > > > The tongue in cheek, I'll excuse ;-)) it's my laugh for the day!!

> > > > I fast on ekadasi tithi because my UL is in 2nd house (ie 12th lord

> > > > is in lagna). Since I was born on sukla paksha, Sanjay ji suggests

> > > > that I fast only on sukla ekadasi.

> > > > Zoki, if you listen to JUS of Year I, you will note how Sanjay ji

> > > > came to this conclusion.

> > > >

> > > > love,

> > > >

> > > > Swee

> > > >

> > > > On 3 Feb 2009, at 15:25, Jyotisa Shisya wrote:

> > > >

> > > >> |om|

> > > >> Dear Zoran, namaste

> > > >>

> > > >> Would not the general act of fasting be construed as an insult to

> > > >> Sri MahaVishnu?

> > > >>

> > > >> best regards

> > > >> Hari

> > > >>

> > > >> On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 5:30 PM, ahimsavm <ahimsans@>

> > > >> wrote:

> > > >> Om Namah Shivaya,

> > > >> Dear Bojan and others,

> > > >> Here is my point and view about the question raised. 2nd bhava is

> > > >> the bhava of Vishnu, sustainer, and if we fast on the day of UL in

> > > >> 2nd house, we bring insult to Vishnu who provides the food for us.

> > > >> However, to be honest, I have not heard this about 2nd lord and

> > > >> tithi. The basic point is that Upapada is a rashi and carries energy

> > > >> of Vara or day. If you fast on the day ruled by tithi of the 2nd

> > > >> lord, you are bringing the jala energy to vara, and gandanta may

> > > >> occur, and spouse may come into a danger. So, what is the way out.

> > > >> The simple solution is to do vrata which do not conflict with

> > > >> rejection of food. So a person may observe the fast on UL in 2nd

> > > >> day, however, adequate food should be offered as a prasad and eaten

> > > >> before the Sunrise (not complete fast).In this way, results may come

> > > >> a bit later, but will certainly come, while a person will not bring

> > > >> insult to Shri Vishnu by rejecting the food.

> > > >> This is the way I was taught, and ofcourse others may agree or not.

> > > >> Best wishes

> > > >> Zoran Radosavljevic

> > > >> www.siva-edu. info

> > > >> www.ahimsazr1. wordpress. com

> Get the world's best email - Xtra Mail

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

om paramesthi gurave namah

 

Dear Narasimha

 

 

 

 

 

> Mantra Shastra is a very detailed work and includes mantra dosha etc.

 

> It is very scientific and accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this.

 

 

 

Some may be fascinated by the texture, color and volume of the chaff and miss

the grain.

 

 

 

Most people who talk about mantra shastra focus on the chaff and not on the

grain.

 

[sanjay Rath:] This sounds like saying that Einsten is bogus as Newtons theory

can explain everything! Viewpoint is very important. Perhaps what you call the

grain is the tree itself! That is the depth of knowledge which decides whether

you have the ability to reach the grain or are still searching for the tree.

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

But the bottomline is this: Only a highly purified sadhaka of very low ego can

command specific results from god (not for selfishness or even ego satisfaction,

but acting as an unattached instrument of Nature fulfilling one's dharma set by

Nature). Various mantras and technicalities of mantra shastra taught by rishis

are meant for such sadhakas.

 

[sanjay Rath:] When will you start learning this?

 

 

 

Those are hardly of use to so many people out there with dense egos seeking

specific selfish results. They cannot command specific results from god (because

of their heavy attachment to the result, which is in turn due to their own

attachment to a limited ego), even if they use all the techniques of mantra

shastra and all the associated rules of astrology. Instead of wasting their time

with these technicalities, they will be better off learning to be good beggars

at God's door.

 

[sanjay Rath:] This is wrong. There was a time when there were only a few very

qualified doctors and they alone could cure. When the knowledge is shared, more

doctors arrive in the planet and they too can heal.

 

Secondly, whether someone is training to be a beggar at Gods door is the work of

his/her spiritual master and NOT that of the Jyotishi. An astrologer is

*required to be humble* and not arrogate to himself this task of asking people

to be humble before God or such things. The path that every creature takes is

that of the spiritual master they seek and follow. And it is the humility to the

Guru alone that brings the ego under control and makes it humble. One who cannot

be humble before the Guru is a gross failure when he tries to be humble before

God and submit. So what you are saying is actually *not fully correct*

 

The first step is to be a beggar before the teacher/guru and then alone can you

be ready to be a beggar at the doors of God.

 

 

 

Just pick any prasiddha mantra or a mantra you feel attracted to, without

worrying about so many technicalities, and learn to be humble and surrender to

the Lord. Patiently wait for him to give you what you want. Like a beggar, take

whatever and whenever he gives.

 

[sanjay Rath:] I have done this for about 30 years now, and I believe many

people in this list have done this for maybe even longer periods. What is the

new thing you are saying?

 

 

 

Keep praying every day or every second when you are able to. Even when you are

not praying, remember him in all of your actions. When you enjoy something in

the material world, tell yourself that it is his and that he gave it to you. If

you remember him all the time, slowly the dirt in your mind will start to get

cleaned. This fixing of attitude is faaaaaaaaaaaar more important than picking

the right mantra, right weekday, right tithi etc (that too based on unreliable

knowledge coming from questionable sources!).

 

[sanjay Rath:] Stop giving a sermon Narasimha?? I know all this, so what is it

that you are talking about? Come to the point.

 

It is pathetic that what you say as *unreliable source* is what you practised

for a decade and never questioned it until suddenly when you are *not a part of

the Jaimini scholar program* !!

 

Vaara/Weekday prayers -

 

Forget the first batch of Jaimini scholars, just ask anyone in the second batch

in year-2/3 and they can easily explain –

 

1. Why is Lord Shiva worshipped on Mondays?

2. Why is Lord Vishnu worshipped on Thursdays?

 

Now don’t try to tell me you did not know that Lord Shiva is worshipped by

millions of Indians on Mondays!

 

Tithi Prayers

 

Fasting on tithi’s concerned to the birth anniversary of the devata on the

days of the tithi are too well known. And you are a software maker, have written

papers on this also. So why this sudden volta-face?

 

Ekadashi fasting is done by a few millions of people for Krishna for Yuga

santarana i.e. tiding over the Yuga effects.

 

Why is ekadashi fasting advocated for this? What link does Ekadashi have to Kali

yuga? You do not know the answer does not mean that it is wrong. And if you know

the answer, then why do you say that the tithi fasting is wrong??!

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

There may be a mountain with thousands of paths (mantra) for climbing it. Each

path may lead to a different spot (different experience) on the top and show a

different scenery (result). Expert advisors (astrologers) may tell you to use a

specific path (mantra) to see a specific scenery (result). But such advice is

useless to a handicapped person without legs (a selfish person with dense ego).

It is relevant only to person with legs and one who is strong and sturdy, who

can successfully climb the mountain (a reasonably detached person with very

little ego).

 

[sanjay Rath:] Another Sermon about being selfish

 

.....since the letter is addressed to me it implies that you mean *I am selfish*.

....and now people will be wondering about what am I selfish? Is it because I did

not share the Jaimni scholar lectures? I invited you and een was prepard to

shift dates, but you were too busy filming about Krishna’s birth or something.

 

 

 

Even when you encounter a person who has legs and can actually climb the

mountain, the stress should be on how to climb the mountain and traverse the

long path, rather than which path to take. The astrologers who are bogged down

by all the technicalities and people who take customized mantra advice from

astrologers and think that they will get a result quickly by doing that

'powerful' mantra are missing the basic point. The power of a powerful mantra is

with respect to the experience and result obtained *after* one succeeds with the

mantra. A partcicularly powerful mantra is akin to a path leading to a point

atop the mountain where the view shows a particularly beautiful scenery. But the

bottomline is that you do have to survive the climb along the long path.

 

[sanjay Rath:] No No Narasimha, mantra is beautiful. It is not *ardous* like

climbing mountain. It is beautiful like a dance – yes a dance on top of

Kailash with Lord Shiva.

 

So this sermn is very wrong really. I have mantra lord Moon in 12th house, so it

s a dance for me, you have 5th lord (mantra) in 8th house (hard) in debility in

Aries (mountain), so it like climbing a mountain for you.

 

You see here also the karma plays out.

 

 

 

We need to emphasize the attitude and approach needed for the long climb, rather

than emphasizing the choice of the path based on horoscope. It is worth noting

that so many great spiritual teachers who came in the last century or two did

not emphasize picking the right mantra based on horoscope etc. Instead, they

emphasized having the correct attitude - surrender, submission, devotion,

patience, persistence, discipline, humility etc!!!! *That* is a lot more

important and useful than trying to be oversmart with the choice of mantra, day

etc and impress god.

 

[sanjay Rath:] Really and how do you wish to *STANDADIZE* this? You have a given

formula for the approach and attitude or is it borrowed from another, and if so

then why are you assuming that the people in this list do not know about

*surrender, submission, devotion, patience, persistence, discipline, humility

etc!!!! *

 

No one is trying to be over smart. They are being smart.

 

They are only using certain rules to approach based on available knowledge. And

that knowledge seems to be bothering you like your problem with Upapada fasting.

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

> when should the worship of a graha be done? Let us say someone

 

> wishes to worship Mars (Mangala graha). When do you think this

 

> worship should be done?

 

 

You can do anyday. Parasara does not mention any day for doing homam to a graha.

 

In fact, if one wants, one can do a homam or worship to Mars (or any planet)

every day. It is even better that way.

 

If an astrologer suggests doing it on a Tuesday, it is fine. But saying that

doing it on so and so day will bring serious dangers because Mars is an enemy of

so and so planet would be stretching things.

 

[sanjay Rath:] Read the PURANAS. What you write clearly shows lack of

understanding of the Puranas. Why would the Rishi advise a particular day? Are

they wrong? Why is the Gayatri initiation done on Wednesdays and Thursdays? Why

is it not done on Saturday?

 

You earlier said that this can be done on any day, then why did they advise a

particular day for this?

 

 

 

 

 

> [sanjay Rath:] Where do you think Veda Vyasa (Krishna dvaipaayana) got his

 

> knowledge and those who wrote it as scribes for him, where did they get it

from?

 

 

From Self - from within. That is the source of all knowledge. A sadguru need not

specifically teach thousand things, but needs to open the door inside.

 

[sanjay Rath:] THAT IS AHAMKARA speaking.

 

The correct answer in complete humility is “The knowledge comes from one

source – Bhagavan.†Surrender to Him and he is the one who will have the

door opened, and then the self will gradually fade away like a mist coming over

a house.

 

 

 

* * *

 

 

 

> OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for Gandanta being in 0 deg,

 

> 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a junction between agni

 

> and jala...I want to her your words if you have any.

 

 

 

Parasara's definition of gandanta is restricted to two neighboring areas in a

contiguous space having a predominance of fire and water elements. " I see fire

and I see water. So there is gandanta " is a wrong approach. One can then call

Venus, a watery planet, being in a fiery sign or Mars, a fiery planet, being in

a watery sign as gandanta. Gandanta requires a *transition* in a contiguous

space.

 

In your example of upapada lord's tithi, there is no contiguous space where

there is a water-fire transition.

 

[sanjay Rath:] There is something called Tithi Gandanta! Gandanta exists between

Purna and nanda tithi.

 

What is wrong with tithi fasting related to the devata of the planet associated

with the Upapada? While Vara vrata will bring about marriage, tithi vrata

associated with the devata should sustain it? Similarly, malefic in the 12th

house can also be pacified either by their devata or if there are planets in the

8th house, then these planets shall support.

 

 

 

> Now somewhere you talked of wasting time!!! Look what you are doing.

 

> You were asked to work on Parashara by your Spiritual Master, and

 

> are you doing that? Me10, Ve7, Ve6...good research but is that from

 

> Parashara?

 

 

Well, Me10, Ve7 etc theory is based on marrying two different teachings of

Parasara (bhava karakas and special lagnas). I do not really consider it as my

creation but as understanding Parasara's teachings only.

 

 

 

[sanjay Rath:] Special Lagna are derived on the principle of circular motion and

the Sun as the Lagna in the first place is derived from the Sun.

 

What you have done is to treat every planet like the Sun which is wrong.

 

The normal procedure for looking at the karaka bhava is Me10 = 10th house from

Mercury; Ve7 is 7th house from Venus and so on...in the rasi and varga charts.

 

Narasimha, this is your creation and NOT taught in BPHS. Please do not twist.

 

 

 

With Warm Regards

 

Sanjay Rath

 

http://srath.com http://sohamsa.com http://.org

 

15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste friends,

 

My guru Dr Manish Pandit sent me a few comments on this thread. I am forwarding

his comments as they are.

 

Sometimes, he can be difficult to understand and something he says may become

clear only after a few years. But it is my experience that he does not waste

words.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

 

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

Spirituality:

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

 

 

-

Manish Pandit

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

Monday, March 02, 2009 8:09 AM

Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)

 

 

Dear Narasimha,

 

When the sadhaka effaces his own personality such that the deity of the mantra

comes and occupies him, then at that stage there is

no real difference between the sadhaka and the Deity(even if the deity is with

the sadhaka all day I would say that there is no real difference).

The difference that one feels is as follows:

One feels a strange coolness on the skin and on the eyes.

A few repititions of the mantra bring about a situation where the deity

possesses the sadhaka and the sadhaka's prana goes upward very quickly( Urdhwa

Retas),

During all meditation the sadhaka sees the feet or clothes or hands or face, etc

of the deity sitting beside him along with minute details of the room (even

though the sadhak's eyes are closed).

The sadhak typically becomes dreamless except for suchaka dreams.

The whole day the sadhaka behaves like a love lorn person. How can i again

experience the Beloved.

That then is the experience of mantra when it is done correctly.

When the sadhak's personality is effaced such that the deity's personality sits

there then the sadhak experiences himself as that Deity(Devata).

There then arises no difference in the sadhak or the deity commanding a certain

thing to happen( be it what appears to be good or be it that which appears to be

bad) . The deity's personality is crucial. Ugra devatas make the person care

almost for nothing himself, so self identification is minimised and the person's

spiritual evolution continues.

Remember, there is very little according to me which is black magic. It is all a

use of Shakti. If your Shakti and deity is a higher shakti such as Prachand

Chandika, MahaKali, Tara, Chinnamasta, then your power will be that of God

himself( Provided you have Vijnana). After the death of the body, such a sadhaka

joins the realm of the deity or if he was originally a Nath or a Muni goes to a

separate realm reserved for these beings.

Attacking such a sadhak brings the full bearing of karma onto the heads of the

attackers and some people may realise this to their detriment( Patan comes from

Jalandhar Nath burying the city of Patan with his Shakti causing an earthquake).

Some people may even equate this with black magic. Here there is only action and

reaction.(Bit like you attack a normal person, and you will get a result of this

from that same Atma whom you harmed maybe 5 to 10 lifetimes later. But if you

attack somebody who is identifying with the universe and has very few karmas

left, then the Universe itself attacks you, because your attack is not on the

sadhaka, but on his identification, ie God or the universe).

If people persist in using the Shakti possesed by a small Pisacha, Bhuta, then

there is only a little Shakti which can be used, moreover then their minds and

intellects will not be free of identification with the body and so their actions

are those which are generally termed as black magic. These people usually join

the same spirits which they have been using after death, this is not an

enjoyable experience.

Imagine if somebody is worshipping Chandika for a few lifetimes, then even in

this birth he or she is drawn to that deity and such a sadhak may acheive after

a few repitions of a mantra(because of his previous effort).

On the other hand somebody doing this mantra only in this lifetime may feel that

the 64 things which bind every mantra are crucial and may not acheive in this

lifetime.

According to me the proof of the pudding is in the eating, so let me suggest an

easy sadhana.

If one is so inclined, then starting on some good day, do 1000 reititions of the

Savitri(some call this the Gayatri, but the real Gayatri is hidden) every day,

main constraints

Same time every day.

Same place.

Same materials.

Same direction.

As little movement as one can.

Count on rudraksha or Tulsi as is your inclination.

Complete restraint on sex(from the mind and the body, not just the body), reduce

food intake, grow a beard.

Do not eat 2 hrs before you start, make sure your bowels are empty before you

start.

Continue this for 100 days and do this whole procedure 3 times.

See the difference in your personality before and after.

Long and short , what is important is that life may be short, so do some

sadhana, and persist with that sadhana for as long as is physically possible.

I hope this clarifies some of the concepts which were being discussed.

 

Kind Love and Regards

manish

You may post this on the list as a clarification from me if you feel that this

is suitable.

 

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 10:12 PM, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr wrote:

 

Dear Sanjay,

 

> Mantra Shastra is a very detailed work and includes mantra dosha etc.

> It is very scientific and accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this.

 

Some may be fascinated by the texture, color and volume of the chaff and miss

the grain.

 

Most people who talk about mantra shastra focus on the chaff and not on the

grain.

 

> You talk of begging God vs commanding God? Now where did that come from?

> How is it related to what is under discussion. Perhaps I have missed many

> mails and am not able to get the context. Trying to command God is

> *BLACK MAGIC* and this is detestable to say the least. The attitude should

> always be that of a beggar in front of God. If anyone has said otherwise, I

> also disagee with him/her.

 

I mentioned the above with respect to the need of thousands of mantras and

technicalities. If one does not want to command god and wants to be a beggar who

will take whatever is given, there is no need for thousands of mantras and all

the umpteen technicalities. These thousands of mantras and umpteen

technicalities are for commanding thousands of different results from god. That

is why I talked of commanding vs begging. However, this commanding works

slightly differently than one may imagine. I will elaborate.

 

Also, commanding god is NOT black magic. Commanding low level beings is black

magic, which can be accomplished even by a person not quite elevated spiritually

and suffering from a heavy ego. However, commanding higher beings such as gods

is possible only for a spiritually elevated person with no or extremely small

ego. This commanding that I am referring to is not an egoistic achievement. In

fact, an egoist cannot achieve it. Only a person succeeding in completely

effacing individual ego can achieve this commanding! I will repeat something

from the previous mail to clarify:

 

The universe has many lokas (planes of consciousness), many beings and many

objects. There are infinite karmic interactions possible between them.

Accordingly, there are infinite possible mantras. When one is able to perfectly

control the mind and *fill it* with a mantra (i.e. no thoughts but the mantra

reverberating in the mind constantly), then one experiences the mantra. This

perfect absorption of self-awareness in the mantra then causes internal changes

by the flow of energy internally in specific ways (specific to the mantra) and

that causes corresponding external changes in the universe and corresponding

karmic interactions between various objects.

 

Each set of " karmic interactions between various objects " is a " result " .

Various mantras are for various " results " . One may term merging self-awareness

in a mantra fully and getting a specific result from it as " commanding a result "

from god. Whether you like the term or not, it is essentially that.

 

* * *

 

But the bottomline is this: Only a highly purified sadhaka of very low ego can

command specific results from god (not for selfishness or even ego satisfaction,

but acting as an unattached instrument of Nature fulfilling one's dharma set by

Nature). Various mantras and technicalities of mantra shastra taught by rishis

are meant for such sadhakas.

 

Those are hardly of use to so many people out there with dense egos seeking

specific selfish results. They cannot command specific results from god (because

of their heavy attachment to the result, which is in turn due to their own

attachment to a limited ego), even if they use all the techniques of mantra

shastra and all the associated rules of astrology. Instead of wasting their time

with these technicalities, they will be better off learning to be good beggars

at God's door.

 

Just pick any prasiddha mantra or a mantra you feel attracted to, without

worrying about so many technicalities, and learn to be humble and surrender to

the Lord. Patiently wait for him to give you what you want. Like a beggar, take

whatever and whenever he gives.

 

Keep praying every day or every second when you are able to. Even when you are

not praying, remember him in all of your actions. When you enjoy something in

the material world, tell yourself that it is his and that he gave it to you. If

you remember him all the time, slowly the dirt in your mind will start to get

cleaned. This fixing of attitude is faaaaaaaaaaaar more important than picking

the right mantra, right weekday, right tithi etc (that too based on unreliable

knowledge coming from questionable sources!).

 

* * *

 

There may be a mountain with thousands of paths (mantra) for climbing it. Each

path may lead to a different spot (different experience) on the top and show a

different scenery (result). Expert advisors (astrologers) may tell you to use a

specific path (mantra) to see a specific scenery (result). But such advice is

useless to a handicapped person without legs (a selfish person with dense ego).

It is relevant only to person with legs and one who is strong and sturdy, who

can successfully climb the mountain (a reasonably detached person with very

little ego).

 

Even when you encounter a person who has legs and can actually climb the

mountain, the stress should be on how to climb the mountain and traverse the

long path, rather than which path to take. The astrologers who are bogged down

by all the technicalities and people who take customized mantra advice from

astrologers and think that they will get a result quickly by doing that

'powerful' mantra are missing the basic point. The power of a powerful mantra is

with respect to the experience and result obtained *after* one succeeds with the

mantra. A partcicularly powerful mantra is akin to a path leading to a point

atop the mountain where the view shows a particularly beautiful scenery. But the

bottomline is that you do have to survive the climb along the long path.

 

We need to emphasize the attitude and approach needed for the long climb,

rather than emphasizing the choice of the path based on horoscope. It is worth

noting that so many great spiritual teachers who came in the last century or two

did not emphasize picking the right mantra based on horoscope etc. Instead, they

emphasized having the correct attitude - surrender, submission, devotion,

patience, persistence, discipline, humility etc!!!! *That* is a lot more

important and useful than trying to be oversmart with the choice of mantra, day

etc and impress god.

 

* * *

 

> when should the worship of a graha be done? Let us say someone

> wishes to worship Mars (Mangala graha). When do you think this

> worship should be done?

 

You can do anyday. Parasara does not mention any day for doing homam to a

graha.

 

In fact, if one wants, one can do a homam or worship to Mars (or any planet)

every day. It is even better that way.

 

If an astrologer suggests doing it on a Tuesday, it is fine. But saying that

doing it on so and so day will bring serious dangers because Mars is an enemy of

so and so planet would be stretching things.

 

> [sanjay Rath:] Where do you think Veda Vyasa (Krishna dvaipaayana) got his

> knowledge and those who wrote it as scribes for him, where did they get it

from?

 

From Self - from within. That is the source of all knowledge. A sadguru need

not specifically teach thousand things, but needs to open the door inside.

 

* * *

 

> OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for Gandanta being in 0 deg,

> 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a junction between agni

> and jala...I want to her your words if you have any.

 

Parasara's definition of gandanta is restricted to two neighboring areas in a

contiguous space having a predominance of fire and water elements. " I see fire

and I see water. So there is gandanta " is a wrong approach. One can then call

Venus, a watery planet, being in a fiery sign or Mars, a fiery planet, being in

a watery sign as gandanta. Gandanta requires a *transition* in a contiguous

space.

 

In your example of upapada lord's tithi, there is no contiguous space where

there is a water-fire transition.

 

> Now somewhere you talked of wasting time!!! Look what you are doing.

> You were asked to work on Parashara by your Spiritual Master, and

> are you doing that? Me10, Ve7, Ve6...good research but is that from

> Parashara?

 

Well, Me10, Ve7 etc theory is based on marrying two different teachings of

Parasara (bhava karakas and special lagnas). I do not really consider it as my

creation but as understanding Parasara's teachings only.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

Spirituality:

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

 

sohamsa , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath wrote:

>

> om paramesthi gurave namah

>

> Dear Narasimha,

>

> I read this mail twice. OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for

Gandanta being in 0 deg, 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a

junction between agni and jala...I want to her your words if you have any. You

keep saying Parasara says so and yet there is nothing forthcoming.

>

> The rashi is associated with the Aditya as the rashi come into existence

because of the Sun, which is the agni tattva. Vara is also agni tattva among the

panchanga of Jyotisha. That is why Vaara is related to rashi. Karma has been

advised in the vaara of the lords of the rashi or the hora of the lords of the

rashi related to a bhaava and for this reason, fasting and other such karma

related to rashi are also based on this. [see Prashna Marga for details].

>

> Moon is the significator of the Aroodha. It is the *emotional content*

related to the maya manifestation of everything in life. Suffering is caused as

we do not fathom the karma associated that resulted in suffering and fasting is

a a means of self punishment and correction related to the raashi where the

aroodha is. Just as Agni has the purity to burn the root of sin, fasting on

vaara related to the UL is surely going to cleanse the sins associated with the

suffering in it. While this may not give a 100% satisfaction as the *moon*

content has not been addressed, at least the initiation of the aroodha occurs

and people find their partners, get married and get along with life. Proof lies

in the pudding and with so many cases where people have fasted on UL days and

have got result, we have found faith in these teachings reinforced. Why fast?

Fasting on vaara is a means to correcting the flaw associated with the raashi.

Raashi is a quantity and hence it is related to the material effects of the

bhava and that is what people are looking for when they come to th astrologer.

You have done well to recall my teachings in this – remember what I taught –

Men should worship a female deity and women shold worship a male deity for the

UL fasting. I wonder if they really follow this.

>

> Why not give fasting at night instead of day? Sun is always good for the

Upapada (Jaimini etc) and that is why we have limited this to day fasting and

not night fasting as well or 24 hour fast. This is my interpolation. [ satisfied

J ] Elders would have given long periods of fast starting from the vaara, like

keeping 21 days fast for the birth of child! You think I should be doing that!

You think anyone will lsiten. Try it yourself before asking me to advise those

hard penance kind of fasts.

>

> Who says the Moon has nothing to do with the arudha. It is the sustainer.

Now people to an astrologer when they are looking for getting married and hardly

anyone comes these days asking for prolonging marriage. Either they want to get

into one or get out of one and into another...astrologers these days are

relegated to helping people make these transitions painless and fast. Of course

some have come and I have not failed them. I have a ready shloka for this –

start from Taurus in Hamsa gati:

>

> Gouri, Kaali, Uma, Bhadraa, Durga, Kanti, Saraswati

>

> Mangalaa, Vaishnavi, Lakshmi, Shivaa, Naraayani

>

> See I have them ready for the 12 signs in Hamsa Gati from the mool trikona

of Moon in hamsa gati

>

> Mantra Shastra is a very detailed work and includes mantra dosha etc. It is

very scientific and accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this.

>

> You talk of begging God vs commanding God? Now where did that come from? How

is it related to what is under discussion. Perhaps I have missed many mails and

am not able to get the context. Trying to command God is *BLACK MAGIC* and this

is detestable to say the least. The attitude should always be that of a beggar

in front of God. If anyone has said otherwise, I also disagee with him/her.

>

> Prasiddha mantras always give result, even without initiation and who knows

how ready a person is for initation. So I prefer sticking to prasiddha mantras

with people who do not have initiations. This is there in VRA also.

>

> I have some questions where I have doubts about what you say. It is below

your mail.

>

> With Warm Regards

>

> Sanjay Rath

>

> http://srath.com http://sohamsa.com http://.org

>

> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India

>

> sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

> 15 February 2009 09:34

> sohamsa ; Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

> Cc: vedic astrology ;

> On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)

>

>  > Statement 1 is an arrogance that the entire Jyotisha shastra is bogus

>

> > and has no relevance as the remedial measures prescribed by

>

> > Parasara and others to be done on specific days are irrlevant and

>

> > not of much consequence.

>

> First of all, Parasara did *not* prescribe fasting on specific weekdays or

tithis based on any arudhas or houses in a chart.

>

> For doshas in birth chart or to get relief from planetary afflictions or to

get the blessings of planets, he suggested various *homas* (fire rituals) and

described how to perform them. His section on remedial measures is full of

various homas. I am not dismissing those remedies taught by Parasara himself and

I am in fact slowly preparing manuals on them so that anybody can do them by

themselves.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] what about the Puranas? Have you gone through the Navagraha

mantras given in the Garuda Purana and other puranic literature?

>

> Parasara did *not* specify the weekday or tithi for most of these homas

(e.g. planetary homas). Only for homas for specific birth doshas (e.g. Amavasya

dosha or Moola dosha), he fixed the tithi or nakshatra based on the dosha and

the deity. But the days are not based on any house or arudha in the chart.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] If Amavasya dosha is to be performed on Amavasya, when should

the worship of a graha be done? Let us say someone wishes to worship Mars

(Mangala graha). When do you think this worship should be done?

>

> Thus, the principles I am questioning are *not* from Parasara.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] Where do you think Veda Vyasa (Krishna dvaipaayana) got his

knowledge and those who wrote it as scribes for him, where did they get it from?

>

> Second, I said what I said in a *context*. People are mentioning complicated

principles that are not found in classics or works of rishis and scaring people

that performing austerities such as fasting on certain days cause " danger to

spouse " or " serious doshas " or " insult to Vishnu " , based on horoscope. I find

these principles illogical and based on hasty thinking. There may be a little

difference between doing an austerity on different days, but my point is that it

is smaller compared to the difference between doing and not doing at all and

that doing it on a " wrong day " does not cause danger as being suggested.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I am sorry. I missed the context and just saw some mails that

were forwarded to me amidst my writing. But them its always a pleasure to talk

to you as in that many many have benefitted, and that includes us as well.

>

> Third, our shastras primarily talk about worshipping various deities on

various days, based on the energy of the *deity*. For worshipping a certain

deity, certain tithi or weekday or nakshatra is better than others. This is

based on the deity and irrespective of the person worshipping. Let me give an

analogy. If a rich man comes out with more money to give to beggars on a

specific day, a beggar is better off going and begging on that day. Schedule and

mood of the giver is more important.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] That’s not right...at least people who read this will

think. Let’s say Shiva worship on Mondays. Shiva is the pratyadhi devata of

the Sun and is not worshipped on Sundays but on Mondays. NOTE – a day after

Sunday! Similarly Narayana is the pratyadhi devata of Mercury and is worshipped

on Thursdays instead of Wednesdays. NOTE – again a day after! So what happened

to the energy equation? J

>

> Choosing the day of a remedy based on the deity is more important and the

variations based on individual horoscope are less important. I am not saying

there are no horoscopic variations. But they are smaller and, more importantly,

I question if they are actually well-understood by astrologers today to apply

*reliably*. I question over-emphasizing and over-selling unreliable principles

of questionable origin and scaring people on that basis.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] To this I can agree as many have not understood even the

basics of Sanatana dharma! Some behave as if there is a battle going on between

Shiva and Vishnu – it’s hilarious to see how these are just attempts to

convert Hinduism into a religion they have left rather than trying to learn what

Hinduism means. Being newly converted there is a bellicose patriotism in them to

prove their faith to the *new god* they have found and every other God must be

the devil in disguise!! It will take years for many to learn that there is no

devil. It’s a figment of their imagination and whatever is devilish is the

dark side of mankind himself.

>

> * * *

>

> > Statement 2 is an arrogance that the entire mantra shastra is useless

>

> > and the Rishi’s were wasting time in giving so many mantras for

>

> > the same devata, like say thousands of mantras for Vishnu or Hanuman

>

> > when any one mantra would suffice. OR it is like saying that we can

>

> > take paracetamol and pray that cancer is cured. I think I may have to

>

> > write a book on Mantra Shastra to validate the teachings of the vedic

>

> > seers.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I got your point here. It’s a good point.

>

> Now somewhere you talked of wasting time!!! Look what you are doing. You

were asked to work on Parashara by your Spiritual Master, and are you doing

that? Me10, Ve7, Ve6...good research but is that from Parashara?

>

> I also know what argument you will give me - J You will say I am already

working on that and have some spare time to do this as well...to which I will

have nothing to say.

>

 

-

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

sohamsa ; Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

Cc: vedic astrology ;

Saturday, February 14, 2009 11:03 PM

On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)

 

 

Dear Sanjay,

 

> Since you do not have any real definition of Gandanta, I am dropping that

 

I do have a definition of gandanta, which is Parasara's definition in BPHS.

 

Since some of you are extrapolating it based on the fire embodied in UL and

water embodied in tithis, the onus is on you to outline and justify your

definition. I got into this thread because statements were made that fasting on

particular weekdays or tithis in a chart can cause " insult to Vishnu " , " serious

doshas " and " danger to spouse " , based on these far-fetched extrapolations of

gandanta.

 

> Which is perfectly in line with everything I have learnt.

 

Well, you once taught that houses represent Sun/Shiva/truth and arudhas

represent Moon/Gouri/perception. That was meaningful. Now, you associated UL, an

arudha, with Sun and fire and 12th, a house, with Gouri and water. I question

whether the new theory on fasting is really in line with everything you have

learnt (and taught).

 

BTW, I specifically asked for a clarification on whether this was based on

your own thinking or from classics/parampara (see quoted mail below for the full

context). Like so many times with similar questions I asked privately and

recently publicly, you did not respond.

 

* * *

 

> Statement 1 is an arrogance that the entire Jyotisha shastra is bogus

> and has no relevance as the remedial measures prescribed by

> Parasara and others to be done on specific days are irrlevant and

> not of much consequence.

 

First of all, Parasara did *not* prescribe fasting on specific weekdays or

tithis based on any arudhas or houses in a chart.

 

For doshas in birth chart or to get relief from planetary afflictions or to

get the blessings of planets, he suggested various *homas* (fire rituals) and

described how to perform them. His section on remedial measures is full of

various homas. I am not dismissing those remedies taught by Parasara himself and

I am in fact slowly preparing manuals on them so that anybody can do them by

themselves.

 

Parasara did *not* specify the weekday or tithi for most of these homas (e.g.

planetary homas). Only for homas for specific birth doshas (e.g. Amavasya dosha

or Moola dosha), he fixed the tithi or nakshatra based on the dosha and the

deity. But the days are not based on any house or arudha in the chart.

 

Thus, the principles I am questioning are *not* from Parasara.

 

Second, I said what I said in a *context*. People are mentioning complicated

principles that are not found in classics or works of rishis and scaring people

that performing austerities such as fasting on certain days cause " danger to

spouse " or " serious doshas " or " insult to Vishnu " , based on horoscope. I find

these principles illogical and based on hasty thinking. There may be a little

difference between doing an austerity on different days, but my point is that it

is smaller compared to the difference between doing and not doing at all and

that doing it on a " wrong day " does not cause danger as being suggested.

 

Third, our shastras primarily talk about worshipping various deities on

various days, based on the energy of the *deity*. For worshipping a certain

deity, certain tithi or weekday or nakshatra is better than others. This is

based on the deity and irrespective of the person worshipping. Let me give an

analogy. If a rich man comes out with more money to give to beggars on a

specific day, a beggar is better off going and begging on that day. Schedule and

mood of the giver is more important.

 

Choosing the day of a remedy based on the deity is more important and the

variations based on individual horoscope are less important. I am not saying

there are no horoscopic variations. But they are smaller and, more importantly,

I question if they are actually well-understood by astrologers today to apply

*reliably*. I question over-emphasizing and over-selling unreliable principles

of questionable origin and scaring people on that basis.

 

* * *

 

> Statement 2 is an arrogance that the entire mantra shastra is useless

> and the Rishi’s were wasting time in giving so many mantras for

> the same devata, like say thousands of mantras for Vishnu or Hanuman

> when any one mantra would suffice. OR it is like saying that we can

> take paracetamol and pray that cancer is cured. I think I may have to

> write a book on Mantra Shastra to validate the teachings of the vedic

> seers.

 

I did not say it is " useless " . Instead, I suggest that our ability to use it

is limited and we should take our limitations into consideration.

 

The universe has many lokas (planes of consciousness), many beings and many

objects. There are infinite karmic interactions possible between them.

Accordingly, there are infinite possible mantras. When one is able to perfectly

control the mind and *fill it* with a mantra (i.e. no thoughts but the mantra

reverberating in the mind constantly), then one experiences the mantra. This

perfect absorption of self-awareness in the mantra then causes internal changes

by the flow of energy internally in specific ways (specific to the mantra) and

that causes corresponding external changes in the universe and corresponding

karmic interactions between various objects.

 

However, this variety of mantras, experiences and results is irrelevant to one

who does not have such perfect control over the mind to absorb the mind fully in

a mantra. It is relevant only to a seer whose self-awareness is quite evolved

and hence control over mind impeccable. Such seers are extremely extremely rare

today. Most people are unable to experience any mantra and mantras do not work

for them as they are supposed to.

 

* * *

 

Just repeating a combination of sounds does not guarantee anything. Some

people may think that certain results come when they repeat a mantra certain

number of times. That is an incorrect notion. A mantra may work for one person

quickly and another may spend the whole life chanting it and nothing may happen.

Absorption of the entire mind into a mantra is needed for a mantra to really

work and it is much more difficult than one may think.

 

* * *

 

A highly learned scholar in the court of a king may be able to command the

king and get whatever he wants from king. An incapable one is better off begging

the king, rather than trying to command (and failing for sure).

 

Similarly, most people are better off begging god for what they want rather

than trying to use the right mantra to command what they want. A beggar does not

need a huge vocabulary or great scholarship or knowledge. Feeling of humility

and helplessness, surrender, patience and persistence are what help a beggar

succeed. A beggar needs the right attitude rather than knowledge. In this age

and time, best bet for most people is to learn to be a good beggar at god's

door.

 

What people today need for material and spiritual progress through remedial

measures is a better attitude in begging god rather than a better choice of

tools such as mantras and other specifics such as weekday, tithi etc to command

a specific result from god.

 

It is worth noting that so many great spiritual teachers who came in the last

century or two did not emphasize picking the right mantra based on horoscope

etc. Instead, they emphasized having the correct attitude - surrender,

submission, devotion, patience, persistence, discipline, humility etc. *That* is

a lot more important and useful than trying to be oversmart with the choice of

mantra, day etc and impress god.

 

* * *

 

One more thing. We have many mantras given by rishis, but the guidelines from

rishis like Parasara on how to pick a mantra based on the horoscope are very

limited. Astrologers today do not operate solely based on them. They use all

kinds of other rules coming from various traditions. They are not free from

corruption and imperfection. Most scriptures associate various mantras with

various results, irrespective of horoscope. For example, irrespective of who is

the 6th lord and 8th lord and lord of A6 and A8, Rina Vimochaka Angaraka mantra

is good for debt control. And so on. Linking of horoscope is overplayed by

today's astrologers, way beyond the scope of Parasara's guidelines.

 

If one has a sadguru, I recommend following the word of sadguru rather than

that of an astrology theoretician.

 

If not, there is no foolproof way to know the right path. Pick any path (given

by an astrologer or one that you feel attracted to) instead of wasting time and

then keep working on your attitude. The latter is the key. As I said earlier,

learn to be a humble beggar at god's door. Choice of Mantra is secondary and

attitude is primary. If you succeed in being a really humble beggar, you stand a

better chance of success than great scholars.

 

Any prasiddha mantra (e.g. ashtakshari, panchakshari, dwadasakshari,

navakshari, vishnu sahasranaam, rudram, hare krishna maha mantra, chandipath,

ganapati atharva seersham, mrityunjaya mantra etc) can help one make progress if

one develops the right attitude. Without the right attitude, even an impeaccably

picked mantra will do nothing.

 

* * *

 

I hope this sufficiently clarifies my stand. I discuss these matters related

to spiritual sadhana more on the . Some writings are

sampled at http://www.vedicastrologer.org/homam/writings.htm.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

Spirituality:

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

 

om paramesthi gurave namah

 

Dear Narasimha,

 

Since you do not have any real definition of Gandanta, I am dropping that

and continue with my belief of the junction between Agni and Jala rasi as the

case of gandanta and the loka junctions. Which is perfectly in line with

everything I have learnt.

 

Two statements you have made contradict standard texts on Jyotish and Mantra

Shastra. Please correct me if I am not understanding you well out here -

 

1. Statement 1: *fasting on any day or any tithi* is good so long as the

sankalpa has been made for the devata you intend to pray to. Results maybe a bit

delayed but will be there.

2. Statement 2: *reciting any prayer* will give the desired effects for any

ailment we wish to remedy

 

Is this what you intended to say or did I get this wrong?

 

Statement 1 is an arrogance that the entire Jyotisha shastra is bogus and

has no relevance as the remedial measures prescribed by Parasara and others to

be done on specific days are irrlevant and not of much consequence. This sounds

like another astrologer I had known some time back whose statements like this

coerced me to write Vedic Remedies in Astrology so that people are not misled

but such pretexts to knowledge.

 

Statement 2 is an arrogance that the entire mantra shastra is useless and

the Rishi’s were wasting time in giving so many mantras for the same devata,

like say thousands of mantras for Vishnu or Hanuman when any one mantra would

suffice. OR it is like saying that we can take paracetamol and pray that cancer

is cured. I think I may have to write a book on Mantra Shastra to validate the

teachings of the vedic seers.

 

I think there is something wrong in the way you are saying what you want to

say. Please rethink and correct your statements for the sake of good record in

this list.

 

With Warm Regards

Sanjay Rath

http://srath.com http://sohamsa.com http://.org

15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India

 

-

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

sohamsa

Sunday, February 08, 2009 12:03 PM

Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING

 

 

Namaste Sanjay and friends,

 

My answers are in red and prefixed with " [Narasimha] " .

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

> > >> tithi. The basic point is that Upapada is a rashi and carries energy

> > >> of Vara or day. If you fast on the day ruled by tithi of the 2nd

> > >> lord, you are bringing the jala energy to vara, and gandanta may

> > >> occur, and spouse may come into a danger. So, what is the way out.

>

> Why does a rashi carry the energy of vaara only and not that of the

tithi???? Why does rashi represent vaara or fire?

>

> [sanjay Rath:] Because Raashi were created by Surya and for doing so Surya

took 12 forms called the Dvadasa Aditya...Narasimha you ask this?? What is

happening?

>

> After all, Rudra rules over the element of fire and Gouri rules over the

element of water and one worships Gouri at the time of marriage. Moreover, Venus

(water) is the karaka for marriage. So one could even say that UL/marriage is

represented by water element and fasting on UL lord's tithi brings the element

of water (prosperity and well-being) to one's marriage (UL)? One could even say

that fasting on the weekday of UL lord should be prohibited as it brings the

fire element represented by weekday to the water of UL and causes " gandanta " !

>

> [sanjay Rath:] UL is the Maya and is associated with the Raashi Narasimha.

It is the 12L which is the creator of the UL...just as the mother Gouri creates

everything through the shakti of the graha, all the arudha are created by her

due to the lordships of the planets. So fasting on the tithi lorded by the 12th

lord will be a *more correct* answer.

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

[Narasimha] We always say that houses (truth) are represented by Sun

(aatman) and arudha padas (maya) by Moon (mind).

 

Thus, 12th house is the actual creator and UL is the apparent creator in the

field of maya. Houses (truth) should actually be associated with Sun (aatman)

and Shiva (and not Gouri), while arudha padas (perception) should actually be

associated with Moon (mind) and Gouri. After all, that is what we do in the

tripod method in dasa judgment.

 

Thus, it is actually more logical to say that 12th house and 12th lord

imbibe the agni tattva of Sun and UL and UL lord imbibe the jala tattva of Moon.

 

Is the above " *more correct* answer " based on your own thinking or is it

from a classic or from tradition?

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

> The mantra one meditates with at the end of a day's fasting is far more

effective than at other times. The conservation of energy otherwise spent on

digestion or speech will enable far more effective mantra meditation. So fast or

keep mouna and then meditate with a mantra, to maximize the effect of the

mantra.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I do not agree with this. Correct eating is the best blessing

for good mantra practise. On days when one fasts the mind is troubled by hunger

causing the stomach to burn and churn and this disturbs mantra japa. Correct

eating (alpa aahaara) is many many times better than complete fasting.

 

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

[Narasimha] Well, if one cannot fast, then one is destined to expend some

energy on digestion after all and not focus all energy on the mantra. But the

bottomline is that shastras say that one should meditate either without or with

very little food (niraahaaro mitaahaaro). In any case, I hope we agree that

meditation sessions after heavy eating are heavily restrained in effectiveness.

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

> Seriously, however, this kind of stretching of gandanta concepts is quite

illogical.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] It is not stretching ... it is the very definition of

gandanta – the interface between fire and water. Put a burning match in a

glass of water, the fire dies...There are other Ganda’s in the chart but they

are not anta (ends). Take Chitra ganda between Kanya and Tula.

 

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

[Narasimha] Putting a burning match in a glass of water does indeed kill fire.

But the question is of contact. If I am thinking of fire in my mind while

standing in water, it does not kill the fire. There is no contact.

 

My point is that the examples given have no real identifiable contact between

water and fire.

 

One can be creative and come up with a lot of theories. For example, one can

say that Moon and Venus are jala tattva and all rasis show agni tattva (then why

are some rasis marked as agni rasis and some as water rasis etc) and hence the

sign occupied by Moon and Venus cause contact between water and fire. Then one

can say fasting on the weekdays of the dispositors of Moon and Venus causes

gandanta and serious danger.

 

It is not enough to show some fire and some water. See what counts as contact.

Otherwise, one will engage in illogical extrapolations.

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

> Three years back you said you are leaving jyotish....then again you told me

two years back and again recently that you are leaving jyotish. Now it is

getting very evident that *jyotish is leaving you*. The knowledge of Jyotish is

PERFECT – individuals embody it in different levels of their understanding and

intelligence.

 

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

[Narasimha] Nothing is permanent. What is one's cannot be taken away. And one

cannot cling on to what is not one's. Some rejoice when it seems like something

comes and cry when it seems like something leaves. Some impassionately observe

as things seem to come and go and do what they see as their dharma with the

things they seem to have.

 

Just a factual correction though

: I never said I was leaving Jyotish. For a few years after my spiritual

master entered my life, my interest in other things went down (though I

continued to do other things) and my focus on spiritual sadhana intensified. So

I said that my interest in Jyotish was very low. However, my guru gave me a task

later. He wanted me to study the teachings of Parasara independently, meditate

on them and share my interpretations with the world. He said I was very

passionate in my Jyotish activities earlier, and he wanted me to do the same now

but dispassionately and without an attachment. He felt that I still have a

contribution to make to Jyotish and wants me to do it as an unattached karma.

His word is everything for me.

 

What I told you recently is not that I was leaving Jyotish but what I said

above.

 

However, if your judgment is correct and if Jyotish is indeed " leaving " me, I

am sure my spiritual guru will realize it sooner or later and change his command

to me.

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

> I can categorically declare one thing with utmost confidence. You pick any

weekday or tithi and take a vow to fast or do mouna vrata (remain silent) on

that weekday or tithi and meditate with a particular mantra (any) at the end of

the day. You can take a vow to keep that practice for a certain duration of time

(say, a few months or years) for a specific purpose. Take a vow and keep the

vrata for the duration. If brahmacharya can be kept for the duration of the

vrata, there is nothing like it!

>

> [sanjay Rath:] This is a fine statement but then you seem to be saying that

the Puranas and other teachings of the seers is of not much relevance. Of course

you are right as it will be spiritually beneficial. For example, a person

wishing to marry should not fast on UL days and should choose any day (all days

are the same) or any tithi (all tithi are the same) and start fasting and do a

mantra (any mantra!!) and then in a few days, or (maybe) a few months (or maybe)

a few years ... or maybe (what you did not say), a few lifetimes, the marriage

will happen! I cannot say you are wrong, so I agree that what you say is right.

 

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

[Narasimha] This is a gross exaggeration.

 

Is all that is being taught and practiced now strictly from " Puranas and other

teachings of the seers " ?

 

I did not say all days and tithis are the same. Of course, there is some

difference. But, it is not as big as being made here.

 

To make khoa, whether one uses cow milk or buffalo milk or milk of a brown cow

or a black cow or a Jersey cow or another cow does make some difference. But it

is secondary. To say that " danger " and " serious doshas " (see the quoted mails

for such claims) can be caused by a wrong choice is wrong. To say that a wrong

choice means khoa will take 100 years to make is also a gross exaggeration.

 

The main thing is that you need milk and sugar. If one is confused by endless

claims of khoa making consultants and ends up not making khoa at all, that will

be sad. In such a case, one can simply pick some milk or the other, take sugar

and start cooking khoa. It will take an extra half hour, but the job will be

done.

 

I request Jyotishis to behave responsibly and humbly and not engage in

scare-mongering and say that a speicifc austerity (fasting on a specific weekday

or tithi in a chart) can cause " danger " and " serious doshas " . No wonder some

spiritual teachers look down upon Jyotish and dismiss it. Such unbalanced

attitude and self-importance from us does not help our cause!

 

Yes, Jyotish is helpful, but let us not oversell it or overplay the

importance...

 

<<<<<< Begin quote <<<<<<

> Gem stones may harm when used incorrectly. But, austerities like prayers,

fasting, mouna vrata and brahmacharya will NEVER do you any harm. If your body

can take fasting, you can do it on any weekday or tithi without too many

calculations.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] Brahmacharya is good for someone planning to have a baby or

one who cannot conceive and this is kept for some period before the appointed

date of nisheka. Brahmacharya is good for marriage?! I think you are mistaking

abstinence from physical union as Brahmacharya. Oh no its so different.

 

>>>>>> End quote >>>>>>

 

[Narasimha] Of course, brahmacharya is much more, but also very difficult for

most. Even physical celibacy is a good enough austerity. Physical celibacy over

an extended period of time increases the efficacy of other austerities such as

fasting, mouna vrata, meditation and homam.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

Spirituality:

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

 

sohamsa , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath wrote:

>

> om paramesthi gurave namah

>

> Dear Narasimha

>

> Just added a few thoughts and questions since we are on the topic of

spirituality, which is not my forte. So I am always seeking to learn.

>

> With Warm Regards

>

> Sanjay Rath

>

> http://srath.com http://sohamsa.com http://.org

>

> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi, 110060, India

>

> sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of

Narasimha PVR Rao

> 06 February 2009 00:48

> sohamsa

> Cc:

> Re: ALTERNATIVE TO UPAPADA FASTING

>

> Namaste friends,

>

> I would like to express my reservations on a couple of issues. It is funny

that I should be typing this email on an Ekadashi day, when many Vaishnavas fast

irrespective of their horoscopes.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I write on dvadasi when so many vasihnava also fast and keep

great austerities. J Any difference?

>

> > >> Here is my point and view about the question raised. 2nd bhava is

> > >> the bhava of Vishnu, sustainer, and if we fast on the day of UL in

> > >> 2nd house, we bring insult to Vishnu who provides the food for us.

>

> My dear Zoran, please allow me to express my disagreement.

>

> Austerities can never be seen as an insult to Vishnu. Self-deprivation of

2nd house matters such as food (fasting) or speech (mouna vrata - vow of

silence) are austerities. Giving up food or speech is not an insult to Vishnu

just as giving up sex (i.e. brahmacharya) is not an insult to Sukracharya

(Venus).

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I though Brahma was very angry that his sons decided not to

have progeny and stayed celibate. So He created others. Why was Brahma angry

when his sons remained celibate? Why should Sukracharya be angry if someone is

celibate? How is it an insult or not an insult to Sukracharya? You are taking

planet signification of Venus for 7H ...and linking this to creation

process...which is wrong Narasimha. Brahma is seen from lords of dusthana 6, 8

and 12 from lagna or 7th which is....you know this.There is nothing wrong with

the 7th house as it is necessary for procreation. It is only the link of this

with the Brahma graha that causes it to become a serious shad-ripu. Married

people are as eligible for moksha as unmarried ones and bachelors. It depends on

the following of dharma and ashrama.

>

> Various gods bestow various things on us, some at the gross physical level

and some at the subtle spiritual level. As we overcome our dependendency on

gross things, we make progress at the subtle level.

>

> If one eats food, a good amount of internal fire (and subtle internal energy

associated with it) is used for digesting it and for generating physical energy

from it. If one fasts, that subtle energy is unused and available for other

things. This is a tremendous benefit. As a result, one can better digest mantras

and spiritual food available all around one.

>

> The mantra one meditates with at the end of a day's fasting is far more

effective than at other times. The conservation of energy otherwise spent on

digestion or speech will enable far more effective mantra meditation. So fast or

keep mouna and then meditate with a mantra, to maximize the effect of the

mantra.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] I do not agree with this. Correct eating is the best blessing

for good mantra practise. On days when one fasts the mind is troubled by hunger

causing the stomach to burn and churn and this disturbs mantra japa. Correct

eating (alpa aahaara) is many many times better than complete fasting.

>

> > >> However, to be honest, I have not heard this about 2nd lord and

> > >> tithi. The basic point is that Upapada is a rashi and carries energy

> > >> of Vara or day. If you fast on the day ruled by tithi of the 2nd

> > >> lord, you are bringing the jala energy to vara, and gandanta may

> > >> occur, and spouse may come into a danger. So, what is the way out.

>

> Why does a rashi carry the energy of vaara only and not that of the

tithi???? Why does rashi represent vaara or fire?

>

> [sanjay Rath:] Because Raashi were created by Surya and for doing so Surya

took 12 forms called the Dvadasa Aditya...Narasimha you ask this?? What is

happening?

>

> After all, Rudra rules over the element of fire and Gouri rules over the

element of water and one worships Gouri at the time of marriage. Moreover, Venus

(water) is the karaka for marriage. So one could even say that UL/marriage is

represented by water element and fasting on UL lord's tithi brings the element

of water (prosperity and well-being) to one's marriage (UL)? One could even say

that fasting on the weekday of UL lord should be prohibited as it brings the

fire element represented by weekday to the water of UL and causes " gandanta " !

>

> [sanjay Rath:] UL is the Maya and is associated with the Raashi Narasimha.

It is the 12L which is the creator of the UL...just as the mother Gouri creates

everything through the shakti of the graha, all the arudha are created by her

due to the lordships of the planets. So fasting on the tithi lorded by the 12th

lord will be a *more correct* answer.

>

> Seriously, however, this kind of stretching of gandanta concepts is quite

illogical.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] It is not stretching ... it is the very definition of

gandanta – the interface between fire and water. Put a burning match in a

glass of water, the fire dies...There are other Ganda’s in the chart but they

are not anta (ends). Take Chitra ganda between Kanya and Tula.

>

> Now one more thing: Marriage is a yoga between two souls and why not suggest

fasting on the yoga day of the UL lord?

>

> [sanjay Rath:] What! What a brilliant suggestion...why don’t you start it?

>

> * * *

>

> > Now suppose instead of 11th house if Mercury goes to 12th house or 4

> > house then you cannot choose Dwadashi or Chaturthi for the same

> > because these thithis are ruled by Mercury only and fasting on these

> > tithis will create serious doshas.

>

> Picking tithi based on house (12th house - Dwadashi, 4th house - Chaturthi)

is illogical as there are 12 houses only and more tithis.

> I have realized one thing over the years - If something is not structurally

sound, it is most likely false knowledge.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] J No comments

>

> * * *

>

> I can categorically declare one thing with utmost confidence. You pick any

weekday or tithi and take a vow to fast or do mouna vrata (remain silent) on

that weekday or tithi and meditate with a particular mantra (any) at the end of

the day. You can take a vow to keep that practice for a certain duration of time

(say, a few months or years) for a specific purpose. Take a vow and keep the

vrata for the duration. If brahmacharya can be kept for the duration of the

vrata, there is nothing like it!

>

> [sanjay Rath:] This is a fine statement but then you seem to be saying that

the Puranas and other teachings of the seers is of not much relevance. Of course

you are right as it will be spiritually beneficial. For example, a person

wishing to marry should not fast on UL days and should choose any day (all days

are the same) or any tithi (all tithi are the same) and start fasting and do a

mantra (any mantra!!) and then in a few days, or (maybe) a few months (or maybe)

a few years ... or maybe (what you did not say), a few lifetimes, the marriage

will happen! I cannot say you are wrong, so I agree that what you say is right.

>

> If you keep such a vrata sincerely, you will make positive progress towards

achieving your purpose and definitely not go backwards, irrespective of what is

said by technical calculations based on our half-baked Jyotish knowledge.

>

> * * *

>

> My friends, use the Jyotish knowledge available, but do realize that it is

imperfect and corrupted. Why is only the UL lord important? So many planets may

have so many kinds of influence on UL in a chart. And UL is one of several

factors showing marriage. There may be various influences in a chart showing

marriage. Is our thumb rule of using UL lord's weekday missing some important

factors? Quite possible!

>

> [sanjay Rath:] That is a very nasty statement. Once again you have used

adjectives (*imperfect, corrupted*) which is not becoming of you. Why must you

use nasty statements? Can’t you say things nicely?

>

> Three years back you said you are leaving jyotish....then again you told me

two years back and again recently that you are leaving jyotish. Now it is

getting very evident that *jyotish is leaving you*. The knowledge of Jyotish is

PERFECT – individuals embody it in different levels of their understanding and

intelligence.

>

> If you have the time to listen to the Jaimini Lectures at

http://sohamsa.com/js/ do so as it will show you the depths of this knowledge

you cannot imagine exists in jyotish. The derivation of the chnhandas and what

not all. Thumb rules are meant for beginners. The day you decided to give up

jyotish, you got stuck in the thumb rules but then its ok with me. I always

wished you the best in whatever you do.

>

> But, despite some arbitrariness and imperfection, if a thumb rule allows you

to pick an austerity with confidence and create the mental feeling that you are

doing the best possible thing for your situation, it is good. After all, what is

critical is to do *some* austerity to burn the blocking karma, with a positive

frame of mind about what you are doing.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] No Narasimha, very happy marriages can happen, without

austerities as well.

>

> But, if endless theorization and complicated technicalities evolving from

the thumb rule are creating doubts and confusion in the minds of people as they

consider an austerity, that is useless and totally missing the point.

>

> Some people tend to resort to heavy theorization based on very shaky

grounds. I suggest going back to the basics, thinking clearly and keeping things

simple.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] Human brains work differently in seeking the truth and means

to remedy the errors. Life is too complicated to keep everything simple. For

example, a heavily cursed Venus can block everything and UL fast may not be able

to solve the problem. Now would you say that heavy thoerization and complication

is happening and we should ignore the other factors completely?

>

> Gem stones may harm when used incorrectly. But, austerities like prayers,

fasting, mouna vrata and brahmacharya will NEVER do you any harm. If your body

can take fasting, you can do it on any weekday or tithi without too many

calculations.

>

> [sanjay Rath:] Brahmacharya is good for someone planning to have a baby or

one who cannot conceive and this is kept for some period before the appointed

date of nisheka. Brahmacharya is good for marriage?! I think you are mistaking

abstinence from physical union as Brahmacharya. Oh no its so different.

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

> -------------------------

> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> Spirituality:

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> -------------------------

>

> sohamsa <sohamsa%40> , Ajay

Zharotia <ajayzharotia@> wrote:

> > ||Om Gurave Namah||

> >

> > Dear Swee, & jyotishis

> >

> > What Zoran is saying is right. Do not mix the energy of day lord

> > (Agni) by choosing the same tithi (jala) that will create serious

> > troubles for the spouse.

> > Let me explain the principle in a simple way so that there should not

> > be any confusion.

> >

> > In your chart (Swee) Vrishabha lagna, UL is in 2nd house. So lord of

> > the UL is the Mercury. Since fasting is prohibited for UL in 2nd

> > house see where the lord of the UL has gone. In your case mercury has

> > gone to the 11th house hence it is Ekadashi. So rule is to choose the

> > tithi is based on the placement of the UL lord.

> >

> > Now suppose instead of 11th house if Mercury goes to 12th house or 4

> > house then you cannot choose Dwadashi or Chaturthi for the same

> > because these thithis are ruled by Mercury only and fasting on these

> > tithis will create serious doshas.

> >

> > If you are doing fasting on the basis of tithis it should be done in

> > sukla paksha only. But if you are doing in Krishna paksha (Pitris)

> > also then it should be combined with the donation.

> >

> > I hope this will clarify the principal.

> >

> > Best Regards

> >

> > Ajay Zharotia

> > ajayzharotia@

> >

> > On Feb 4, 2009, at 12:51 PM, Sanjay Prabhakaran wrote:

> >

> > > || Om Gurave Namah ||

> > > Dear Swee,

> > > Can you please tell me the exact rule to use for fasting on

> > > tithi?.Do we use the 12th lord tithi?, Like if you are Ta lagna,

> > > there 2 tithi one on Triteeya (3) and Ekadasha(11). If we consider

> > > only the paksh in which u are born.

> > > Now of the two which to use?.

> > >

> > > Warm Regards

> > > Sanjay p

> > >

> > > 2009/2/3 Swee Chan <swee@>

> > > Jaya Jagannatha

> > >

> > > Dear Hari, Zoki, et al in this discussion,

> > > Namaste

> > >

> > > The tongue in cheek, I'll excuse ;-)) it's my laugh for the day!!

> > > I fast on ekadasi tithi because my UL is in 2nd house (ie 12th lord

> > > is in lagna). Since I was born on sukla paksha, Sanjay ji suggests

> > > that I fast only on sukla ekadasi.

> > > Zoki, if you listen to JUS of Year I, you will note how Sanjay ji

> > > came to this conclusion.

> > >

> > > love,

> > >

> > > Swee

> > >

> > > On 3 Feb 2009, at 15:25, Jyotisa Shisya wrote:

> > >

> > >> |om|

> > >> Dear Zoran, namaste

> > >>

> > >> Would not the general act of fasting be construed as an insult to

> > >> Sri MahaVishnu?

> > >>

> > >> best regards

> > >> Hari

> > >>

> > >> On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 5:30 PM, ahimsavm <ahimsans@>

> > >> wrote:

> > >> Om Namah Shivaya,

> > >> Dear Bojan and others,

> > >> Here is my point and view about the question raised. 2nd bhava is

> > >> the bhava of Vishnu, sustainer, and if we fast on the day of UL in

> > >> 2nd house, we bring insult to Vishnu who provides the food for us.

> > >> However, to be honest, I have not heard this about 2nd lord and

> > >> tithi. The basic point is that Upapada is a rashi and carries energy

> > >> of Vara or day. If you fast on the day ruled by tithi of the 2nd

> > >> lord, you are bringing the jala energy to vara, and gandanta may

> > >> occur, and spouse may come into a danger. So, what is the way out.

> > >> The simple solution is to do vrata which do not conflict with

> > >> rejection of food. So a person may observe the fast on UL in 2nd

> > >> day, however, adequate food should be offered as a prasad and eaten

> > >> before the Sunrise (not complete fast).In this way, results may come

> > >> a bit later, but will certainly come, while a person will not bring

> > >> insult to Shri Vishnu by rejecting the food.

> > >> This is the way I was taught, and ofcourse others may agree or not.

> > >> Best wishes

> > >> Zoran Radosavljevic

> > >> www.siva-edu.info

> > >> www.ahimsazr1.wordpress.com

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Sanjay,

 

> No No Narasimha, mantra is beautiful. It is not *ardous* like

> climbing mountain. It is beautiful like a dance â? " yes a dance

> on top of Kailash with Lord Shiva.

 

Well, if mantra is really like a dance on top of Kailasha for you, you are

fortunate. However, most people do have to engage in an arduous climbing to

enjoy such a dance. If I (or anybody else) were to tell people that mantras work

magically without a lot of discipline and effort and internal maturing, I would

be misleading them. If I were to tell people that their problems will be

magically solved because they came to me and got the perfect mantra to the

perfect deity, I would be misleading them.

 

> So this sermn is very wrong really. I have mantra lord Moon in

> 12th house, so it s a dance for me, you have 5th lord (mantra) in

> 8th house (hard) in debility in Aries (mountain), so it like

> climbing a mountain for you.

> You see here also the karma plays out.

 

Karma does indeed play out, but the question is whether we are reading it

correctly or not!

 

Yes, my 5th lord is indeed in 8th but with several planets and aspected by

Jupiter and giving many yogas. Are we sure we are judging it correctly? Yes,

your 5th lord is in 12th, but he is in marana karaka sthana from 5th and

aspected closely by Rahu. Are we sure we are judging it correctly?

 

Bottomline is that judging the play of karmas is not a simple thing and one can

always make mistakes. In any case, I suggest that we should not get personal

under the pretext of demonstrating how karmas play out.

 

> Secondly, whether someone is training to be a beggar at Gods door

> is the work of his/her spiritual master and NOT that of the Jyotishi.

> An astrologer is *required to be humble* and not arrogate to himself

> this task of asking people to be humble before God or such things.

 

OK, so what then is the task of this " humble " astrologer? If telling people to

surrender to god and pray is arrogance, what do you call telling people that one

has knowledge which will let them get what they want from god? Also, is it

really humble to make statements that austerities can bring dangers and insult

to Vishnu? When an astrologer recommends mantras and makes statements like

these, one is already encroaching on the space of a spiritual master somewhat.

 

> ....since the letter is addressed to me it implies that you mean *I am

selfish*

 

Though the mail is addressed to you, a lot of portions inside are addressed to

all. The above point is not about any specific person. I apologize for any

confusion.

 

> > > OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for Gandanta being in 0 deg,

> > > 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a junction between agni

> > > and jala...I want to her your words if you have any.

> >

> > Parasara's definition of gandanta is restricted to two neighboring areas in

a

> > contiguous space having a predominance of fire and water elements. " I see

> > fire and I see water. So there is gandanta " is a wrong approach. One can

> > then call Venus, a watery planet, being in a fiery sign or Mars, a fiery

planet,

> > being in a watery sign as gandanta. Gandanta requires a *transition* in a

> > contiguous space. In your example of upapada lord's tithi, there is no

> > contiguous space where there is a water-fire transition.

> >

> There is something called Tithi Gandanta! Gandanta exists between

> Purna and nanda tithi.

 

Yes, but we do have a contiguous space here. The contiguous 0-360 deg space of

Sun-Moon angle has portions with predominance of different elements. When there

are transitions between portioins having a predominance of fire and water,

Parasara gave a tithi gandanta there.

 

When you are talking about the tithi of UL lord, what is the contiguous space,

what are its portions and what are the transitions? It is an illogical extension

of gandanta.

 

* * *

 

In conclusion, I will sum up my main points. [This is copied from the other mail

from today and slightly edited.]

 

(1) The knowledge needed for judging specific karmas responsible for specific

results and suggesting specific remedies is partly lost and partly corrupted

today. What we have is a non-coherent collage of some good knowledge and a lot

of corruptions.

 

The way gandanta is being stretched and people are talking of insult to Vishnu

by fasting etc, it should be clear that knowledge is being corrupted based on

fancy imagination. People are presenting their ideas without making it clear

that those are their ideas.

 

(2) Many people today are unable to use many specific remedies given in shastras

today. Just because one worships a specific form with a specific mantra, things

do not necessarily happen. There is a lot more needed and most of it is not

external (e.g. choice of weekday or tithi or color of clothes, direction faced

etc) but internal (e.g. discipline, patience, surrender, humility, low ego etc).

In the old days, these internal issues were pretty much under control and

mantras worked well. Now, people lack on those big time and mantras do not work

the way they are supposed to.

 

Given the above two points, best path for one today is to surrender to a deity,

try to instill discipline, humility and patience and pray for mercy, rather than

running after astrologers for customized remedies.

 

(3) *Austerities* like fasting do *not* harm one.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

 

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

Spirituality:

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

 

 

sohamsa , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath wrote:

 

om paramesthi gurave namah

 

Dear Narasimha

 

 

 

> Mantra Shastra is a very detailed work and includes mantra dosha etc.

 

> It is very scientific and accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this.

 

 

Some may be fascinated by the texture, color and volume of the chaff and miss

the grain.

 

 

Most people who talk about mantra shastra focus on the chaff and not on the

grain.

 

[sanjay Rath:] This sounds like saying that Einsten is bogus as Newtons theory

can explain everything! Viewpoint is very important. Perhaps what you call the

grain is the tree itself! That is the depth of knowledge which decides whether

you have the ability to reach the grain or are still searching for the tree.

 

 

* * *

 

 

But the bottomline is this: Only a highly purified sadhaka of very low ego can

command specific results from god (not for selfishness or even ego satisfaction,

but acting as an unattached instrument of Nature fulfilling one's dharma set by

Nature). Various mantras and technicalities of mantra shastra taught by rishis

are meant for such sadhakas.

 

[sanjay Rath:] When will you start learning this?

 

 

Those are hardly of use to so many people out there with dense egos seeking

specific selfish results. They cannot command specific results from god (because

of their heavy attachment to the result, which is in turn due to their own

attachment to a limited ego), even if they use all the techniques of mantra

shastra and all the associated rules of astrology. Instead of wasting their time

with these technicalities, they will be better off learning to be good beggars

at God's door.

 

[sanjay Rath:] This is wrong. There was a time when there were only a few very

qualified doctors and they alone could cure. When the knowledge is shared, more

doctors arrive in the planet and they too can heal.

 

Secondly, whether someone is training to be a beggar at Gods door is the work of

his/her spiritual master and NOT that of the Jyotishi. An astrologer is

*required to be humble* and not arrogate to himself this task of asking people

to be humble before God or such things. The path that every creature takes is

that of the spiritual master they seek and follow. And it is the humility to the

Guru alone that brings the ego under control and makes it humble. One who cannot

be humble before the Guru is a gross failure when he tries to be humble before

God and submit. So what you are saying is actually *not fully correct*

 

The first step is to be a beggar before the teacher/guru and then alone can you

be ready to be a beggar at the doors of God.

 

 

Just pick any prasiddha mantra or a mantra you feel attracted to, without

worrying about so many technicalities, and learn to be humble and surrender to

the Lord. Patiently wait for him to give you what you want. Like a beggar, take

whatever and whenever he gives.

 

[sanjay Rath:] I have done this for about 30 years now, and I believe many

people in this list have done this for maybe even longer periods. What is the

new thing you are saying?

 

 

Keep praying every day or every second when you are able to. Even when you are

not praying, remember him in all of your actions. When you enjoy something in

the material world, tell yourself that it is his and that he gave it to you. If

you remember him all the time, slowly the dirt in your mind will start to get

cleaned. This fixing of attitude is faaaaaaaaaaaar more important than picking

the right mantra, right weekday, right tithi etc (that too based on unreliable

knowledge coming from questionable sources!).

 

[sanjay Rath:] Stop giving a sermon Narasimha?? I know all this, so what is it

that you are talking about? Come to the point.

 

It is pathetic that what you say as *unreliable source* is what you practised

for a decade and never questioned it until suddenly when you are *not a part of

the Jaimini scholar program* !!

 

Vaara/Weekday prayers -

 

Forget the first batch of Jaimini scholars, just ask anyone in the second batch

in year-2/3 and they can easily explain â? "

 

1.. Why is Lord Shiva worshipped on Mondays?

2.. Why is Lord Vishnu worshipped on Thursdays?

Now donâ?Tt try to tell me you did not know that Lord Shiva is worshipped by

millions of Indians on Mondays!

 

Tithi Prayers

 

Fasting on tithiâ?Ts concerned to the birth anniversary of the devata on the

days of the tithi are too well known. And you are a software maker, have written

papers on this also. So why this sudden volta-face?

 

Ekadashi fasting is done by a few millions of people for Krishna for Yuga

santarana i.e. tiding over the Yuga effects.

 

Why is ekadashi fasting advocated for this? What link does Ekadashi have to Kali

yuga? You do not know the answer does not mean that it is wrong. And if you know

the answer, then why do you say that the tithi fasting is wrong??!

 

 

* * *

 

 

There may be a mountain with thousands of paths (mantra) for climbing it. Each

path may lead to a different spot (different experience) on the top and show a

different scenery (result). Expert advisors (astrologers) may tell you to use a

specific path (mantra) to see a specific scenery (result). But such advice is

useless to a handicapped person without legs (a selfish person with dense ego).

It is relevant only to person with legs and one who is strong and sturdy, who

can successfully climb the mountain (a reasonably detached person with very

little ego).

 

[sanjay Rath:] Another Sermon about being selfish

 

.....since the letter is addressed to me it implies that you mean *I am selfish*.

....and now people will be wondering about what am I selfish? Is it because I did

not share the Jaimni scholar lectures? I invited you and een was prepard to

shift dates, but you were too busy filming about Krishnaâ?Ts birth or something.

 

 

Even when you encounter a person who has legs and can actually climb the

mountain, the stress should be on how to climb the mountain and traverse the

long path, rather than which path to take. The astrologers who are bogged down

by all the technicalities and people who take customized mantra advice from

astrologers and think that they will get a result quickly by doing that

'powerful' mantra are missing the basic point. The power of a powerful mantra is

with respect to the experience and result obtained *after* one succeeds with the

mantra. A partcicularly powerful mantra is akin to a path leading to a point

atop the mountain where the view shows a particularly beautiful scenery. But the

bottomline is that you do have to survive the climb along the long path.

 

[sanjay Rath:] No No Narasimha, mantra is beautiful. It is not *ardous* like

climbing mountain. It is beautiful like a dance â? " yes a dance on top of

Kailash with Lord Shiva.

 

So this sermn is very wrong really. I have mantra lord Moon in 12th house, so it

s a dance for me, you have 5th lord (mantra) in 8th house (hard) in debility in

Aries (mountain), so it like climbing a mountain for you.

 

You see here also the karma plays out.

 

 

We need to emphasize the attitude and approach needed for the long climb, rather

than emphasizing the choice of the path based on horoscope. It is worth noting

that so many great spiritual teachers who came in the last century or two did

not emphasize picking the right mantra based on horoscope etc. Instead, they

emphasized having the correct attitude - surrender, submission, devotion,

patience, persistence, discipline, humility etc!!!! *That* is a lot more

important and useful than trying to be oversmart with the choice of mantra, day

etc and impress god.

 

[sanjay Rath:] Really and how do you wish to *STANDADIZE* this? You have a given

formula for the approach and attitude or is it borrowed from another, and if so

then why are you assuming that the people in this list do not know about

*surrender, submission, devotion, patience, persistence, discipline, humility

etc!!!! *

 

No one is trying to be over smart. They are being smart.

 

They are only using certain rules to approach based on available knowledge. And

that knowledge seems to be bothering you like your problem with Upapada fasting.

 

 

* * *

 

 

> when should the worship of a graha be done? Let us say someone

 

> wishes to worship Mars (Mangala graha). When do you think this

 

> worship should be done?

 

 

You can do anyday. Parasara does not mention any day for doing homam to a graha.

 

In fact, if one wants, one can do a homam or worship to Mars (or any planet)

every day. It is even better that way.

 

If an astrologer suggests doing it on a Tuesday, it is fine. But saying that

doing it on so and so day will bring serious dangers because Mars is an enemy of

so and so planet would be stretching things.

 

[sanjay Rath:] Read the PURANAS. What you write clearly shows lack of

understanding  of the Puranas. Why would the Rishi advise a particular day? Are

they wrong? Why is the Gayatri initiation done on Wednesdays and Thursdays? Why

is it not done on Saturday?

 

You earlier said that this can be done on any day, then why did they advise a

particular day for this?

 

 

 

> [sanjay Rath:] Where do you think Veda Vyasa (Krishna dvaipaayana) got his

 

> knowledge and those who wrote it as scribes for him, where did they get it

from?

 

 

From Self - from within. That is the source of all knowledge. A sadguru need not

specifically teach thousand things, but needs to open the door inside.

 

[sanjay Rath:] THAT IS AHAMKARA speaking.

 

The correct answer in complete humility is â?oThe knowledge comes from one

source â? " Bhagavan.â? Surrender to Him and he is the one who will have the

door opened, and then the self will gradually fade away like a mist coming over

a house.

 

 

* * *

 

 

> OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for Gandanta being in 0 deg,

 

> 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a junction between agni

 

> and jala...I want to her your words if you have any.

 

 

Parasara's definition of gandanta is restricted to two neighboring areas in a

contiguous space having a predominance of fire and water elements. " I see fire

and I see water. So there is gandanta " is a wrong approach. One can then call

Venus, a watery planet, being in a fiery sign or Mars, a fiery planet, being in

a watery sign as gandanta. Gandanta requires a *transition* in a contiguous

space.

 

In your example of upapada lord's tithi, there is no contiguous space where

there is a water-fire transition.

 

[sanjay Rath:] There is something called Tithi Gandanta! Gandanta exists between

Purna and nanda tithi.

 

What is wrong with tithi fasting related to the devata of the planet associated

with the Upapada? While Vara vrata will bring about marriage, tithi vrata

associated with the devata should sustain it? Similarly, malefic in the 12th

house can also be pacified either by their devata or if there are planets in the

8th house, then these planets shall support.

 

 

> Now somewhere you talked of wasting time!!! Look what you are doing.

 

> You were asked to work on Parashara by your Spiritual Master, and

 

> are you doing that? Me10, Ve7, Ve6...good research but is that from

 

> Parashara?

 

 

Well, Me10, Ve7 etc theory is based on marrying two different teachings of

Parasara (bhava karakas and special lagnas). I do not really consider it as my

creation but as understanding Parasara's teachings only.

 

 

[sanjay Rath:] Special Lagna are derived on the principle of circular motion and

the Sun as the Lagna in the first place is derived from the Sun.

 

What you have done is to treat every planet like the Sun which is wrong.

 

The normal procedure for looking at the karaka bhava is Me10 = 10th house from

Mercury; Ve7 is 7th house from Venus and so on...in the rasi and varga charts.

 

Narasimha, this is your creation and NOT taught in BPHS. Please do not twist.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

thanks for the response, Maja. May it be that again tithi fasting be required

for UL in 2nd to AL?

 

sohamsa , majastrbacastro wrote:

>

>

> Om Gurave Namah

>  

> Dear SS,

>  

> I don't have a clue about the correct answer on this. I am just familiar with

one example where fasting was anyway advised in such case. Maybe you will get a

reply on your question by this " example " .   

>  

> Now I am thinking what if UL is placed in Makar Rasi, because 2nd there from

is also lorded by Sani... Anyone? 

>  

> Warm Regards,

> Maja Strbac

>  

> Hari Om Tat Sat

>  

>

>

> --- On Mon, 3/16/09, Soul Sadhak <soulsadhak wrote:

>

>

> Soul Sadhak <soulsadhak

> On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)

> sohamsa

> Monday, March 16, 2009, 11:57 PM

Dear Maja, Michal and All,

>

> By the same reasoning, should one be avoiding fasting for UL if UL is placed

2nd to AL, since it may mean that the UL is source of sustenance for the AL?

>

> Best Regards,

> SS

>

> sohamsa@ .com, Maja Å trbac <majastrbacastro@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave Namah

> >  

> > Dear Michal and SS, namaste

> >  

> > Michal: okay it was a slip. Imagine Virgo lagna with UL in Taurus.

> >  

> > SS: same lordship over UL and 2nd bhava requires same approach on

fasting. Tithi is choice in this case.  

> >  

> > Regards,

> > Maja Strbac

> >  

> > Hari Om Tat Sat

> >

> > --- On Thu, 3/5/09, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@ ...> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@ ...>

> > Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving

Points)

> > sohamsa@ .com

> > Thursday, March 5, 2009, 12:01 PM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Hare Rama Krsna ||

> >

> > Dear SS,

> >

> > How can UL be in Libra for Aries ascendant?

> >

> > Regards,

> > Michal

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Soul Sadhak <soulsadhak>

> > sohamsa@ .com

> > Friday, 6 March, 2009 3:04:22 AM

> > On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Michal,

> >

> > If UL is placed elsewhere (other than 2nd house), but day is same as

indicated by lord of 2nd house (e.g UL is in Libra and 2nd house is Taurus),

then what is advisable?

> >

> > Best Regards,

> > SS

> >

> > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@ ...> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hare Rama Krsna ||

> > >

> > > Dear Hari,

> > >

> > > if a person happens to fast for whatever reason on some particular

> > > day/tithi, why is it equated to an insult on the most compassionate

> > > Vishnu?

> > >

> > > I don't believe anyone here is trying to put forward the notion that

fasting on a particular day will insult Vishnu. This whole thread has become a

misunderstanding of language. The initial point was that when the UL is in the

2nd house one should not fast as this is Vishnu sthana and the 2nd house of

sustenance. To fast on this day, you could say, will create a 'conflict of

interest'. With all due respect to Zoran, because of a lack of time to be more

specific, and Serbian (not english) being his mother tongue, he used this word

'insult', which given the fallout that resulted may not have been the

write/right word to use.

> > >

> > > Nevertheless, lets not get stuck on words, lets try to understand the

principle:

> > >

> > > Say a person has UL in 2nd house Leo. If they unknowingly fast on a Sunday

then that is one thing. If they go to a Jyotishi, who should have knowledge on

these things, and they are told to fast on Sunday for a specific result, then

they and the Jyotishi may suffer from some ill result due to fasting on the day

of the 2nd lord - 'conflict of interest'. If a doctor prescribes wrong medicine

then naturally we can expect an ill result. We all agree this can happen with

gemstones.

> > >

> > > Another differentiation - fasting for UL is different to fasting for

spiritual penance, which again is different from fasting because you are a

fashion model.

> > >

> > > Anyone can encourage people to fast for spiritual penance, but only a

Jyotishi can advise someone the correct day to fast for getting married.

> > >

> > > Warm regards,

> > > Michal

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > Jyotisa Shisya <achyutagaddi@ ...>

> > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > Tuesday, 3 March, 2009 5:32:21 PM

> > > Re: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving

Points)

> > >

> > >

> > > om sri rama jaya rama jaya jaya rama

> > > Dear Sanjay/Narasimha, pranaams

> > >

> > > Please forgive me for my comments that I am about to make. First, this

discussion initially very interesting is now turning me cold.

> > >

> > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa repeatedly scoffed at the idea that God is

compassionate. His argument was that God has been and continues to be

compassionate from day one of our existence. And through out my life, this is

one thing that I have realized i.e., that God is very, very compassionate.

> > >

> > > So now, Sanjay, tell me one thing: if a person happens to fast for

whatever reason on some particular day/tithi, why is it equated to an insult on

the most compassionate Vishnu?

> > >

> > > Do you not find this absurd? Yet this is the crux of what was stated in a

recent discussion thread.

> > >

> > > Secondly, Sarbani wrote in this discussion thread that there are troubled

souls out there indulging in all this talk about corruption of principles and

what not. Again this is absurd as to paraphrase Mirabai, there are troubled

souls everywhere on this planet Earth and everyone of them is in search of the

truth, whatver it may be called.

> > >

> > > best regards

> > > Hari

> > >

> > > best regards

> > > Hari

> > >

> > >

> > > On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Sanjay,

> > >

> > > > No No Narasimha, mantra is beautiful. It is not *ardous* like

> > > > climbing mountain. It is beautiful like a dance

ÃÆ'¢â‚¬â€Å " yes a dance

> > > > on top of Kailash with Lord Shiva.

> > >

> > > Well, if mantra is really like a dance on top of Kailasha for you, you are

fortunate. However, most people do have to engage in an arduous climbing to

enjoy such a dance. If I (or anybody else) were to tell people that mantras work

magically without a lot of discipline and effort and internal maturing, I would

be misleading them. If I were to tell people that their problems will be

magically solved because they came to me and got the perfect mantra to the

perfect deity, I would be misleading them.

> > >

> > > > So this sermn is very wrong really. I have mantra lord Moon in

> > > > 12th house, so it s a dance for me, you have 5th lord (mantra) in

> > > > 8th house (hard) in debility in Aries (mountain), so it like

> > > > climbing a mountain for you.

> > > > You see here also the karma plays out.

> > >

> > > Karma does indeed play out, but the question is whether we are reading it

correctly or not!

> > >

> > > Yes, my 5th lord is indeed in 8th but with several planets and aspected by

Jupiter and giving many yogas. Are we sure we are judging it correctly? Yes,

your 5th lord is in 12th, but he is in marana karaka sthana from 5th and

aspected closely by Rahu. Are we sure we are judging it correctly?

> > >

> > > Bottomline is that judging the play of karmas is not a simple thing and

one can always make mistakes. In any case, I suggest that we should not get

personal under the pretext of demonstrating how karmas play out.

> > >

> > > > Secondly, whether someone is training to be a beggar at Gods door

> > > > is the work of his/her spiritual master and NOT that of the Jyotishi.

> > > > An astrologer is *required to be humble* and not arrogate to himself

> > > > this task of asking people to be humble before God or such things.

> > >

> > > OK, so what then is the task of this " humble " astrologer? If telling

people to surrender to god and pray is arrogance, what do you call telling

people that one has knowledge which will let them get what they want from god?

Also, is it really humble to make statements that austerities can bring dangers

and insult to Vishnu? When an astrologer recommends mantras and makes statements

like these, one is already encroaching on the space of a spiritual master

somewhat.

> > >

> > > > ....since the letter is addressed to me it implies that you mean *I am

selfish*

> > >

> > > Though the mail is addressed to you, a lot of portions inside are

addressed to all. The above point is not about any specific person. I apologize

for any confusion.

> > >

> > > > > > OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for Gandanta being in 0

deg,

> > > > > > 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a junction between

agni

> > > > > > and jala...I want to her your words if you have any.

> > > > >

> > > > > Parasara's definition of gandanta is restricted to two neighboring

areas in a

> > > > > contiguous space having a predominance of fire and water elements. " I

see

> > > > > fire and I see water. So there is gandanta " is a wrong approach. One

can

> > > > > then call Venus, a watery planet, being in a fiery sign or Mars, a

fiery planet,

> > > > > being in a watery sign as gandanta. Gandanta requires a *transition*

in a

> > > > > contiguous space. In your example of upapada lord's tithi, there is no

> > > > > contiguous space where there is a water-fire transition.

> > > > >

> > > > There is something called Tithi Gandanta! Gandanta exists between

> > > > Purna and nanda tithi.

> > >

> > > Yes, but we do have a contiguous space here. The contiguous 0-360 deg

space of Sun-Moon angle has portions with predominance of different elements.

When there are transitions between portioins having a predominance of fire and

water, Parasara gave a tithi gandanta there.

> > >

> > > When you are talking about the tithi of UL lord, what is the contiguous

space, what are its portions and what are the transitions? It is an illogical

extension of gandanta.

> > >

> > > * * *

> > >

> > > In conclusion, I will sum up my main points. [This is copied from the

other mail from today and slightly edited.]

> > >

> > > (1) The knowledge needed for judging specific karmas responsible for

specific results and suggesting specific remedies is partly lost and partly

corrupted today. What we have is a non-coherent collage of some good knowledge

and a lot of corruptions.

> > >

> > > The way gandanta is being stretched and people are talking of insult to

Vishnu by fasting etc, it should be clear that knowledge is being corrupted

based on fancy imagination. People are presenting their ideas without making it

clear that those are their ideas.

> > >

> > > (2) Many people today are unable to use many specific remedies given in

shastras today. Just because one worships a specific form with a specific

mantra, things do not necessarily happen. There is a lot more needed and most of

it is not external (e.g. choice of weekday or tithi or color of clothes,

direction faced etc) but internal (e.g. discipline, patience, surrender,

humility, low ego etc). In the old days, these internal issues were pretty much

under control and mantras worked well. Now, people lack on those big time and

mantras do not work the way they are supposed to.

> > >

> > > Given the above two points, best path for one today is to surrender to a

deity, try to instill discipline, humility and patience and pray for mercy,

rather than running after astrologers for customized remedies.

> > >

> > > (3) *Austerities* like fasting do *not*harm one.

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > >

> > > Narasimha

> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

> > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

> > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana

> > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

> > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

> > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

> > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

> > >

> > > sohamsa@ .com, " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> wrote:

> > >

> > > om paramesthi gurave namah

> > > Dear Narasimha

> > > > Mantra Shastra is a very detailed work and includes mantra dosha etc.

> > > > It is very scientific and accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this.

> > > Some may be fascinated by the texture, color and volume of the chaff and

miss the grain.

> > > Most people who talk about mantra shastra focus on the chaff and not on

the grain.

> > > [sanjay Rath:] This sounds like saying that Einsten is bogus as Newtons

theory can explain everything! Viewpoint is very important. Perhaps what you

call the grain is the tree itself! That is the depth of knowledge which decides

whether you have the ability to reach the grain or are still searching for the

tree.

> > > * * *

> > > But the bottomline is this: Only a highly purified sadhaka of very low ego

can command specific results from god (not for selfishness or even ego

satisfaction, but acting as an unattached instrumen t of Nature fulfilling one's

dharma set by Nature). Various mantras and technicalities of mantra shastra

taught by rishis are meant for such sadhakas.

> > > [sanjay Rath:] When will you start learning this?

> > > Those are hardly of use to so many people out there with dense egos

seeking specific selfish results. They cannot command specific results from god

(because of their heavy attachment to the result, which is in turn due to their

own attachment to a limited ego), even if they use all the techniques of mantra

shastra and all the associated rules of astrology. Instead of wasting their time

with these technicalities, they will be better off learning to be good beggars

at God's door.

> > > [sanjay Rath:] This is wrong. There was a time when there were only a few

very qualified doctors and they alone could cure. When the knowledge is shared,

more doctors arrive in the planet and they too can heal.

> > > Secondly, whether someone is training to be a beggar at Gods door is the

work of his/her spiritual master and NOT that of the Jyotishi. An astrologer is

*required to be humble* and not arrogate to himself this task of asking people

to be humble before God or such things. The path that every creature takes is

that of the spiritual master they seek and follow. And it is the humility to the

Guru alone that brings the ego under control and makes it humble. One who cannot

be humble before the Guru is a gross failure when he tries to be humble before

God and submit. So what you are saying is actually *not fully correct*

> > > The first step is to be a beggar before the teacher/guru and then alone

can you be ready to be a beggar at the doors of God.

> > > Just pick any prasiddha mantra or a mantra you feel attracted to, without

worrying about so many technicalities, and learn to be humble and surrender to

the Lord. Patiently wait for him to give you what you want. Like a beggar, take

whatever and whenever he gives.

> > > [sanjay Rath:] I have done this for about 30 years now, and I believe many

people in this list have done this for maybe even longer periods. What is the

new thing you are saying?

> > > Keep praying every day or every second when you are able to. Even when you

are not praying, remember him in all of your actions. When you enjoy something

in the material world, tell yourself that it is his and that he gave it to you.

If you remember him all the time, slowly the dirt in your mind will start to get

cleaned. This fixing of attitude is faaaaaaaaaaaar more important than picking

the right mantra, right weekday, right tithi etc (that too based on unreliable

knowledge coming from questionable sources!).

> > > [sanjay Rath:] Stop giving a sermon Narasimha?? I know all this, so what

is it that you are talking about? Come to the point.

> > > It is pathetic that what you say as *unreliable source* is what you

practised for a decade and never questioned it until suddenly when you are *not

a part of the Jaimini scholar program* !!

> > > Vaara/Weekday prayers -

> > > Forget the first batch of Jaimini scholars, just ask anyone in the second

batch in year-2/3 and they can easily explain

ÃÆ'¢â‚¬â€Å "

> > > 1. Why is Lord Shiva worshipped on Mondays?

> > > 2. Why is Lord Vishnu worshipped on Thursdays?

> > > Now donÃÆ'¢â‚¬â„¢t try to tell me you did not

know that Lord Shiva is worshipped by millions of Indians on Mondays!

> > > Tithi Prayers

> > > Fasting on tithiÃÆ'¢â‚¬â„¢s concerned to the

birth anniversary of the devata on the days of the tithi are too well known. And

you are a software maker, h

>

[Guest guest]

Om Gurave Namah

 

Dear SS,

 

(If you want my intuitive "opinion", I would say no on tithi fasting in this case. But this is not what you are after You would like clear explanation. So do I. I just joined your question and added one of my own. Now all we have to do is to be patient)

Let me repeat again: "I don't have a clue about the correct answer on this." Meaning: why to advise regular fasting or not to advise it in case if UL is placed in 2nd from AL.

 

Warm Regards,

Maja Strbac

 

Hari Om Tat Sat--- On Tue, 3/17/09, Soul Sadhak <soulsadhak wrote:

Soul Sadhak <soulsadhak On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)sohamsa Date: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 6:21 AM

 

 

thanks for the response, Maja. May it be that again tithi fasting be required for UL in 2nd to AL?sohamsa@ .com, majastrbacastro@ ... wrote:>> > Om Gurave Namah>  > Dear SS, >  > I don't have a clue about the correct answer on this. I am just familiar with one example where fasting was anyway advised in such case. Maybe you will get a reply on your question by this "example".   >  > Now I am thinking what if UL is placed in Makar Rasi, because 2nd there from is also lorded by Sani... Anyone? >  > Warm Regards,> Maja Strbac>  > Hari Om Tat Sat>  > > > --- On Mon, 3/16/09, Soul

Sadhak <soulsadhak@ ...> wrote:> > > Soul Sadhak <soulsadhak@ ...>> On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)> sohamsa@ .com> Monday, March 16, 2009, 11:57 PM> > > > > > > Dear Maja, Michal and All,> > By the same reasoning, should one be avoiding fasting for UL if UL is placed 2nd to AL, since it may mean that the UL is source of sustenance for the AL?> > Best Regards,> SS> > sohamsa@ .com, Maja Štrbac <majastrbacastro@ ...> wrote:> >> > Om Gurave Namah> >  > > Dear Michal and SS, namaste> >

 > > Michal: okay it was a slip. Imagine Virgo lagna with UL in Taurus.> >  > > SS: same lordship over UL and 2nd bhava requires same approach on fasting. Tithi is choice in this case.  > >  > > Regards,> > Maja Strbac> >  > > Hari Om Tat Sat> > > > --- On Thu, 3/5/09, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@ ...> wrote:> > > > > > Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@ ...>> > Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)> > sohamsa@ .com> > Thursday, March 5, 2009, 12:01 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > > > Dear SS,>

> > > How can UL be in Libra for Aries ascendant?> > > > Regards,> > Michal> > > > > > > > > > > > Soul Sadhak <soulsadhak>> > sohamsa@ .com> > Friday, 6 March, 2009 3:04:22 AM> > On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)> > > > > > > > Dear Michal,> > > > If UL is placed elsewhere (other than 2nd house), but day is same as indicated by lord of 2nd house (e.g UL is in Libra and 2nd house is Taurus), then what is advisable?> > > > Best Regards,> > SS> > > > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@ ...> wrote:> > >> > > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > > > > > Dear

Hari,> > > > > > if a person happens to fast for whatever reason on some particular> > > day/tithi, why is it equated to an insult on the most compassionate> > > Vishnu?> > > > > > I don't believe anyone here is trying to put forward the notion that fasting on a particular day will insult Vishnu. This whole thread has become a misunderstanding of language. The initial point was that when the UL is in the 2nd house one should not fast as this is Vishnu sthana and the 2nd house of sustenance. To fast on this day, you could say, will create a 'conflict of interest'. With all due respect to Zoran, because of a lack of time to be more specific, and Serbian (not english) being his mother tongue, he used this word 'insult', which given the fallout that resulted may not have been the write/right word to use.> > > > > > Nevertheless, lets not get stuck on

words, lets try to understand the principle: > > > > > > Say a person has UL in 2nd house Leo. If they unknowingly fast on a Sunday then that is one thing. If they go to a Jyotishi, who should have knowledge on these things, and they are told to fast on Sunday for a specific result, then they and the Jyotishi may suffer from some ill result due to fasting on the day of the 2nd lord - 'conflict of interest'. If a doctor prescribes wrong medicine then naturally we can expect an ill result. We all agree this can happen with gemstones.> > > > > > Another differentiation - fasting for UL is different to fasting for spiritual penance, which again is different from fasting because you are a fashion model. > > > > > > Anyone can encourage people to fast for spiritual penance, but only a Jyotishi can advise someone the correct day to fast for getting married.> > > >

> > Warm regards,> > > Michal> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > > Jyotisa Shisya <achyutagaddi@ ...>> > > sohamsa@ .com> > > Tuesday, 3 March, 2009 5:32:21 PM> > > Re: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)> > > > > > > > > om sri rama jaya rama jaya jaya rama> > > Dear Sanjay/Narasimha, pranaams> > > > > > Please forgive me for my comments that I am about to make. First, this discussion initially very interesting is now turning me cold. > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa repeatedly scoffed at the idea that God is compassionate. His argument was that God has been and

continues to be compassionate from day one of our existence. And through out my life, this is one thing that I have realized i.e., that God is very, very compassionate.> > > > > > So now, Sanjay, tell me one thing: if a person happens to fast for whatever reason on some particular day/tithi, why is it equated to an insult on the most compassionate Vishnu?> > > > > > Do you not find this absurd? Yet this is the crux of what was stated in a recent discussion thread.> > > > > > Secondly, Sarbani wrote in this discussion thread that there are troubled souls out there indulging in all this talk about corruption of principles and what not. Again this is absurd as to paraphrase Mirabai, there are troubled souls everywhere on this planet Earth and everyone of them is in search of the truth, whatver it may be called.> > > > > > best regards> > >

Hari> > > > > > best regards> > > Hari> > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote:> > > > > > Dear Sanjay,> > > > > > > No No Narasimha, mantra is beautiful. It is not *ardous* like> > > > climbing mountain. It is beautiful like a dance ÃÆ'¢â‚¬â€Å" yes a dance> > > > on top of Kailash with Lord Shiva. > > > > > > Well, if mantra is really like a dance on top of Kailasha for you, you are fortunate. However, most people do have to engage in an arduous climbing to enjoy such a dance. If I (or anybody else) were to tell people that mantras work magically without a lot of discipline and effort and internal maturing, I would be misleading them. If I

were to tell people that their problems will be magically solved because they came to me and got the perfect mantra to the perfect deity, I would be misleading them.> > > > > > > So this sermn is very wrong really. I have mantra lord Moon in> > > > 12th house, so it s a dance for me, you have 5th lord (mantra) in> > > > 8th house (hard) in debility in Aries (mountain), so it like> > > > climbing a mountain for you.> > > > You see here also the karma plays out.> > > > > > Karma does indeed play out, but the question is whether we are reading it correctly or not!> > > > > > Yes, my 5th lord is indeed in 8th but with several planets and aspected by Jupiter and giving many yogas. Are we sure we are judging it correctly? Yes, your 5th lord is in 12th, but he is in marana karaka sthana from 5th and aspected closely

by Rahu. Are we sure we are judging it correctly?> > > > > > Bottomline is that judging the play of karmas is not a simple thing and one can always make mistakes. In any case, I suggest that we should not get personal under the pretext of demonstrating how karmas play out.> > > > > > > Secondly, whether someone is training to be a beggar at Gods door> > > > is the work of his/her spiritual master and NOT that of the Jyotishi.> > > > An astrologer is *required to be humble* and not arrogate to himself> > > > this task of asking people to be humble before God or such things.> > > > > > OK, so what then is the task of this "humble" astrologer? If telling people to surrender to god and pray is arrogance, what do you call telling people that one has knowledge which will let them get what they want from god? Also, is it really

humble to make statements that austerities can bring dangers and insult to Vishnu? When an astrologer recommends mantras and makes statements like these, one is already encroaching on the space of a spiritual master somewhat.> > > > > > > ....since the letter is addressed to me it implies that you mean *I am selfish*> > > > > > Though the mail is addressed to you, a lot of portions inside are addressed to all. The above point is not about any specific person. I apologize for any confusion.> > > > > > > > > OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for Gandanta being in 0 deg,> > > > > > 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a junction between agni> > > > > > and jala...I want to her your words if you have any.> > > > > > > > > > Parasara's definition of gandanta is restricted

to two neighboring areas in a> > > > > contiguous space having a predominance of fire and water elements. "I see> > > > > fire and I see water. So there is gandanta" is a wrong approach. One can> > > > > then call Venus, a watery planet, being in a fiery sign or Mars, a fiery planet,> > > > > being in a watery sign as gandanta. Gandanta requires a *transition* in a> > > > > contiguous space. In your example of upapada lord's tithi, there is no> > > > > contiguous space where there is a water-fire transition.> > > > >> > > > There is something called Tithi Gandanta! Gandanta exists between> > > > Purna and nanda tithi. > > > > > > Yes, but we do have a contiguous space here. The contiguous 0-360 deg space of Sun-Moon angle has portions with predominance of different

elements. When there are transitions between portioins having a predominance of fire and water, Parasara gave a tithi gandanta there.> > > > > > When you are talking about the tithi of UL lord, what is the contiguous space, what are its portions and what are the transitions? It is an illogical extension of gandanta.> > > > > > * * *> > > > > > In conclusion, I will sum up my main points. [This is copied from the other mail from today and slightly edited.]> > > > > > (1) The knowledge needed for judging specific karmas responsible for specific results and suggesting specific remedies is partly lost and partly corrupted today. What we have is a non-coherent collage of some good knowledge and a lot of corruptions.> > > > > > The way gandanta is being stretched and people are talking of insult to Vishnu by fasting etc, it should

be clear that knowledge is being corrupted based on fancy imagination. People are presenting their ideas without making it clear that those are their ideas.> > > > > > (2) Many people today are unable to use many specific remedies given in shastras today. Just because one worships a specific form with a specific mantra, things do not necessarily happen. There is a lot more needed and most of it is not external (e.g. choice of weekday or tithi or color of clothes, direction faced etc) but internal (e.g. discipline, patience, surrender, humility, low ego etc). In the old days, these internal issues were pretty much under control and mantras worked well. Now, people lack on those big time and mantras do not work the way they are supposed to.> > > > > > Given the above two points, best path for one today is to surrender to a deity, try to instill discipline, humility and patience and pray for mercy, rather

than running after astrologers for customized remedies.> > > > > > (3) *Austerities* like fasting do *not*harm one.> > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Narasimha> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------> > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana> > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net> > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, "Sanjay Rath" <sjrath@> wrote:> > > > > > om paramesthi gurave namah> > > Dear Narasimha> > > > Mantra Shastra is a very detailed work and includes mantra dosha etc.> > > > It is very scientific and accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this. > > > Some may be fascinated by the texture, color and volume of the chaff and miss the grain.> > > Most people who talk about mantra shastra focus on the chaff and not on the grain.> > > [sanjay Rath:] This

sounds like saying that Einsten is bogus as Newtons theory can explain everything! Viewpoint is very important. Perhaps what you call the grain is the tree itself! That is the depth of knowledge which decides whether you have the ability to reach the grain or are still searching for the tree. > > > * * *> > > But the bottomline is this: Only a highly purified sadhaka of very low ego can command specific results from god (not for selfishness or even ego satisfaction, but acting as an unattached instrumen t of Nature fulfilling one's dharma set by Nature). Various mantras and technicalities of mantra shastra taught by rishis are meant for such sadhakas.> > > [sanjay Rath:] When will you start learning this?> > > Those are hardly of use to so many people out there with dense egos seeking specific selfish results. They cannot command specific results from god (because of their heavy attachment to the

result, which is in turn due to their own attachment to a limited ego), even if they use all the techniques of mantra shastra and all the associated rules of astrology. Instead of wasting their time with these technicalities, they will be better off learning to be good beggars at God's door.> > > [sanjay Rath:] This is wrong. There was a time when there were only a few very qualified doctors and they alone could cure. When the knowledge is shared, more doctors arrive in the planet and they too can heal. > > > Secondly, whether someone is training to be a beggar at Gods door is the work of his/her spiritual master and NOT that of the Jyotishi. An astrologer is *required to be humble* and not arrogate to himself this task of asking people to be humble before God or such things. The path that every creature takes is that of the spiritual master they seek and follow. And it is the humility to the Guru alone that brings the ego

under control and makes it humble. One who cannot be humble before the Guru is a gross failure when he tries to be humble before God and submit. So what you are saying is actually *not fully correct*> > > The first step is to be a beggar before the teacher/guru and then alone can you be ready to be a beggar at the doors of God.> > > Just pick any prasiddha mantra or a mantra you feel attracted to, without worrying about so many technicalities, and learn to be humble and surrender to the Lord. Patiently wait for him to give you what you want. Like a beggar, take whatever and whenever he gives.> > > [sanjay Rath:] I have done this for about 30 years now, and I believe many people in this list have done this for maybe even longer periods. What is the new thing you are saying?> > > Keep praying every day or every second when you are able to. Even when you are not praying, remember him in all of your

actions. When you enjoy something in the material world, tell yourself that it is his and that he gave it to you. If you remember him all the time, slowly the dirt in your mind will start to get cleaned. This fixing of attitude is faaaaaaaaaaaar more important than picking the right mantra, right weekday, right tithi etc (that too based on unreliable knowledge coming from questionable sources!).> > > [sanjay Rath:] Stop giving a sermon Narasimha?? I know all this, so what is it that you are talking about? Come to the point.> > > It is pathetic that what you say as *unreliable source* is what you practised for a decade and never questioned it until suddenly when you are *not a part of the Jaimini scholar program* !!> > > Vaara/Weekday prayers -> > > Forget the first batch of Jaimini scholars, just ask anyone in the second batch in year-2/3 and they can easily explain

ÃÆ'¢â‚¬â€Å"> > > 1. Why is Lord Shiva worshipped on Mondays? > > > 2. Why is Lord Vishnu worshipped on Thursdays?> > > Now donÃÆ'¢â‚¬â„¢t try to tell me you did not know that Lord Shiva is worshipped by millions of Indians on Mondays!> > > Tithi Prayers> > > Fasting on tithiÃÆ'¢â‚¬â„¢s concerned to the birth anniversary of the devata on the days of the tithi are too well known. And you are a software maker, h>

[Guest guest]

Hare Rama Krishna

Dear SS, Maja ,

Just a few comments.

Mostly it depends on intent. It would be nice to think that all the days I didn't or couldn't eat were somehow credited as a penance for some karmas, but thats not how it works.

While mantras ,(especially names of the Supreme Personality and all his associates) are powerful even when spoken inadvertently...

performing some penance like fasting has alot to do with your mind and intent.

In fact ,fasting is ment to make you stronger mentally.

In other words, just fasting or not eating mindlessly on a particular day doesn't magically give some results.

It is making the conscious decision, I want to do something about this situation, so let me perform some penance to help.

Hope that gives some direction

Lakshmi

--- On Tue, 3/17/09, majastrbacastro <majastrbacastro wrote:

majastrbacastro <majastrbacastroRe: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)sohamsa Date: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 4:20 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Om Gurave Namah

 

Dear SS,

 

I don't have a clue about the correct answer on this. I am just familiar with one example where fasting was anyway advised in such case. Maybe you will get a reply on your question by this "example".

 

Now I am thinking what if UL is placed in Makar Rasi, because 2nd there from is also lorded by Sani... Anyone?

 

Warm Regards,

Maja Strbac

 

Hari Om Tat Sat

 

--- On Mon, 3/16/09, Soul Sadhak <soulsadhak > wrote:

Soul Sadhak <soulsadhak > On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)sohamsa@ .comMonday, March 16, 2009, 11:57 PM

 

 

Dear Maja, Michal and All,By the same reasoning, should one be avoiding fasting for UL if UL is placed 2nd to AL, since it may mean that the UL is source of sustenance for the AL?Best Regards,SSsohamsa@ .com, Maja Štrbac <majastrbacastro@ ...> wrote:>> Om Gurave Namah>  > Dear Michal and SS, namaste>  > Michal: okay it was a slip. Imagine Virgo lagna with UL in Taurus.>  > SS: same lordship over UL and 2nd bhava requires same approach on fasting. Tithi is choice in this case.  >  > Regards,> Maja Strbac>  > Hari Om Tat Sat> > --- On Thu, 3/5/09, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@ ...> wrote:> > >

Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@ ...>> Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)> sohamsa@ .com> Thursday, March 5, 2009, 12:01 PM> > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > Dear SS,> > How can UL be in Libra for Aries ascendant?> > Regards,> Michal> > > > > > Soul Sadhak <soulsadhak>> sohamsa@ .com> Friday, 6 March, 2009 3:04:22 AM> On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)> > > > Dear Michal,> > If UL is placed elsewhere (other than 2nd house), but day is same as indicated by

lord of 2nd house (e.g UL is in Libra and 2nd house is Taurus), then what is advisable?> > Best Regards,> SS> > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@ ...> wrote:> >> > Hare Rama Krsna ||> > > > Dear Hari,> > > > if a person happens to fast for whatever reason on some particular> > day/tithi, why is it equated to an insult on the most compassionate> > Vishnu?> > > > I don't believe anyone here is trying to put forward the notion that fasting on a particular day will insult Vishnu. This whole thread has become a misunderstanding of language. The initial point was that when the UL is in the 2nd house one should not fast as this is Vishnu sthana and the 2nd house of sustenance. To fast on this day, you could say, will create a 'conflict of interest'. With all due respect to Zoran, because of a

lack of time to be more specific, and Serbian (not english) being his mother tongue, he used this word 'insult', which given the fallout that resulted may not have been the write/right word to use.> > > > Nevertheless, lets not get stuck on words, lets try to understand the principle: > > > > Say a person has UL in 2nd house Leo. If they unknowingly fast on a Sunday then that is one thing. If they go to a Jyotishi, who should have knowledge on these things, and they are told to fast on Sunday for a specific result, then they and the Jyotishi may suffer from some ill result due to fasting on the day of the 2nd lord - 'conflict of interest'. If a doctor prescribes wrong medicine then naturally we can expect an ill result. We all agree this can happen with gemstones.> > > > Another differentiation - fasting for UL is different to fasting for spiritual penance, which again is different from fasting

because you are a fashion model. > > > > Anyone can encourage people to fast for spiritual penance, but only a Jyotishi can advise someone the correct day to fast for getting married.> > > > Warm regards,> > Michal> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > Jyotisa Shisya <achyutagaddi@ ...>> > sohamsa@ .com> > Tuesday, 3 March, 2009 5:32:21 PM> > Re: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)> > > > > > om sri rama jaya rama jaya jaya rama> > Dear Sanjay/Narasimha, pranaams> > > > Please forgive me for my comments that I am about to make. First, this discussion initially very interesting is now turning me cold. > > > > Sri

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa repeatedly scoffed at the idea that God is compassionate. His argument was that God has been and continues to be compassionate from day one of our existence. And through out my life, this is one thing that I have realized i.e., that God is very, very compassionate.> > > > So now, Sanjay, tell me one thing: if a person happens to fast for whatever reason on some particular day/tithi, why is it equated to an insult on the most compassionate Vishnu?> > > > Do you not find this absurd? Yet this is the crux of what was stated in a recent discussion thread.> > > > Secondly, Sarbani wrote in this discussion thread that there are troubled souls out there indulging in all this talk about corruption of principles and what not. Again this is absurd as to paraphrase Mirabai, there are troubled souls everywhere on this planet Earth and everyone of them is in search of the truth,

whatver it may be called.> > > > best regards> > Hari> > > > best regards> > Hari> > > > > > On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote:> > > > Dear Sanjay,> > > > > No No Narasimha, mantra is beautiful. It is not *ardous* like> > > climbing mountain. It is beautiful like a dance â€â€Å" yes a dance> > > on top of Kailash with Lord Shiva. > > > > Well, if mantra is really like a dance on top of Kailasha for you, you are fortunate. However, most people do have to engage in an arduous climbing to enjoy such a dance. If I (or anybody else) were to tell people that mantras work magically without a lot of discipline and effort and internal maturing, I would be misleading them. If I were to tell people that their

problems will be magically solved because they came to me and got the perfect mantra to the perfect deity, I would be misleading them.> > > > > So this sermn is very wrong really. I have mantra lord Moon in> > > 12th house, so it s a dance for me, you have 5th lord (mantra) in> > > 8th house (hard) in debility in Aries (mountain), so it like> > > climbing a mountain for you.> > > You see here also the karma plays out.> > > > Karma does indeed play out, but the question is whether we are reading it correctly or not!> > > > Yes, my 5th lord is indeed in 8th but with several planets and aspected by Jupiter and giving many yogas. Are we sure we are judging it correctly? Yes, your 5th lord is in 12th, but he is in marana karaka sthana from 5th and aspected closely by Rahu. Are we sure we are judging it correctly?> > > >

Bottomline is that judging the play of karmas is not a simple thing and one can always make mistakes. In any case, I suggest that we should not get personal under the pretext of demonstrating how karmas play out.> > > > > Secondly, whether someone is training to be a beggar at Gods door> > > is the work of his/her spiritual master and NOT that of the Jyotishi.> > > An astrologer is *required to be humble* and not arrogate to himself> > > this task of asking people to be humble before God or such things.> > > > OK, so what then is the task of this "humble" astrologer? If telling people to surrender to god and pray is arrogance, what do you call telling people that one has knowledge which will let them get what they want from god? Also, is it really humble to make statements that austerities can bring dangers and insult to Vishnu? When an astrologer recommends mantras and

makes statements like these, one is already encroaching on the space of a spiritual master somewhat.> > > > > ....since the letter is addressed to me it implies that you mean *I am selfish*> > > > Though the mail is addressed to you, a lot of portions inside are addressed to all. The above point is not about any specific person. I apologize for any confusion.> > > > > > > OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for Gandanta being in 0 deg,> > > > > 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a junction between agni> > > > > and jala...I want to her your words if you have any.> > > > > > > > Parasara's definition of gandanta is restricted to two neighboring areas in a> > > > contiguous space having a predominance of fire and water elements. "I see> > > > fire and I see water. So

there is gandanta" is a wrong approach. One can> > > > then call Venus, a watery planet, being in a fiery sign or Mars, a fiery planet,> > > > being in a watery sign as gandanta. Gandanta requires a *transition* in a> > > > contiguous space. In your example of upapada lord's tithi, there is no> > > > contiguous space where there is a water-fire transition.> > > >> > > There is something called Tithi Gandanta! Gandanta exists between> > > Purna and nanda tithi. > > > > Yes, but we do have a contiguous space here. The contiguous 0-360 deg space of Sun-Moon angle has portions with predominance of different elements. When there are transitions between portioins having a predominance of fire and water, Parasara gave a tithi gandanta there.> > > > When you are talking about the tithi of UL lord, what is the

contiguous space, what are its portions and what are the transitions? It is an illogical extension of gandanta.> > > > * * *> > > > In conclusion, I will sum up my main points. [This is copied from the other mail from today and slightly edited.]> > > > (1) The knowledge needed for judging specific karmas responsible for specific results and suggesting specific remedies is partly lost and partly corrupted today. What we have is a non-coherent collage of some good knowledge and a lot of corruptions.> > > > The way gandanta is being stretched and people are talking of insult to Vishnu by fasting etc, it should be clear that knowledge is being corrupted based on fancy imagination. People are presenting their ideas without making it clear that those are their ideas.> > > > (2) Many people today are unable to use many specific remedies given in shastras today.

Just because one worships a specific form with a specific mantra, things do not necessarily happen. There is a lot more needed and most of it is not external (e.g. choice of weekday or tithi or color of clothes, direction faced etc) but internal (e.g. discipline, patience, surrender, humility, low ego etc). In the old days, these internal issues were pretty much under control and mantras worked well. Now, people lack on those big time and mantras do not work the way they are supposed to.> > > > Given the above two points, best path for one today is to surrender to a deity, try to instill discipline, humility and patience and pray for mercy, rather than running after astrologers for customized remedies.> > > > (3) *Austerities* like fasting do *not*harm one.> > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

---------> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam> > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana> > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- > > > > --- In

sohamsa@ .com, "Sanjay Rath" <sjrath@> wrote:> > > > om paramesthi gurave namah> > Dear Narasimha> > > Mantra Shastra is a very detailed work and includes mantra dosha etc.> > > It is very scientific and accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this. > > Some may be fascinated by the texture, color and volume of the chaff and miss the grain.> > Most people who talk about mantra shastra focus on the chaff and not on the grain.> > [sanjay Rath:] This sounds like saying that Einsten is bogus as Newtons theory can explain everything! Viewpoint is very important. Perhaps what you call the grain is the tree itself! That is the depth of knowledge which decides whether you have the ability to reach the grain or are still searching for the tree. > > * * *> > But the bottomline is this: Only a highly purified sadhaka of very low ego can

command specific results from god (not for selfishness or even ego satisfaction, but acting as an unattached instrumen t of Nature fulfilling one's dharma set by Nature). Various mantras and technicalities of mantra shastra taught by rishis are meant for such sadhakas.> > [sanjay Rath:] When will you start learning this?> > Those are hardly of use to so many people out there with dense egos seeking specific selfish results. They cannot command specific results from god (because of their heavy attachment to the result, which is in turn due to their own attachment to a limited ego), even if they use all the techniques of mantra shastra and all the associated rules of astrology. Instead of wasting their time with these technicalities, they will be better off learning to be good beggars at God's door.> > [sanjay Rath:] This is wrong. There was a time when there were only a few very qualified doctors and they alone could cure.

When the knowledge is shared, more doctors arrive in the planet and they too can heal. > > Secondly, whether someone is training to be a beggar at Gods door is the work of his/her spiritual master and NOT that of the Jyotishi. An astrologer is *required to be humble* and not arrogate to himself this task of asking people to be humble before God or such things. The path that every creature takes is that of the spiritual master they seek and follow. And it is the humility to the Guru alone that brings the ego under control and makes it humble. One who cannot be humble before the Guru is a gross failure when he tries to be humble before God and submit. So what you are saying is actually *not fully correct*> > The first step is to be a beggar before the teacher/guru and then alone can you be ready to be a beggar at the doors of God.> > Just pick any prasiddha mantra or a mantra you feel attracted to, without worrying about so

many technicalities, and learn to be humble and surrender to the Lord. Patiently wait for him to give you what you want. Like a beggar, take whatever and whenever he gives.> > [sanjay Rath:] I have done this for about 30 years now, and I believe many people in this list have done this for maybe even longer periods. What is the new thing you are saying?> > Keep praying every day or every second when you are able to. Even when you are not praying, remember him in all of your actions. When you enjoy something in the material world, tell yourself that it is his and that he gave it to you. If you remember him all the time, slowly the dirt in your mind will start to get cleaned. This fixing of attitude is faaaaaaaaaaaar more important than picking the right mantra, right weekday, right tithi etc (that too based on unreliable knowledge coming from questionable sources!).> > [sanjay Rath:] Stop giving a sermon Narasimha?? I know

all this, so what is it that you are talking about? Come to the point.> > It is pathetic that what you say as *unreliable source* is what you practised for a decade and never questioned it until suddenly when you are *not a part of the Jaimini scholar program* !!> > Vaara/Weekday prayers -> > Forget the first batch of Jaimini scholars, just ask anyone in the second batch in year-2/3 and they can easily explain â€â€Å"> > 1. Why is Lord Shiva worshipped on Mondays? > > 2. Why is Lord Vishnu worshipped on Thursdays?> > Now don’t try to tell me you did not know that Lord Shiva is worshipped by millions of Indians on Mondays!> > Tithi Prayers> > Fasting on tithi’s concerned to the birth anniversary of the devata on the days of the tithi are too well known. And you are a

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