On Remedial Measures Difference (Resolving Points)

[Guest guest]

Dear SS,

 

Your thinking is right but here perspective are different. 2nd from lagna is

food but 2nd from AL is not food.

 

Sun is the karaka for lagna. Houses from lagna to 5th are assigned to pancha

tattvas. Since Agni tattva (2nd house) is the causing the forms (our lagna)

then lack of it can make us loose that form. We know that 2nd and 8th house are

Rudra Bhava also. If food is sustaining the lagna then lack of food will also

destroy the lagna. So its advised not to fast (resulting in reducing the agni

element) on " vaar' signified by the lord of the 2nd house because 'vaar' is the

carrier of agni tattva.

 

Now AL is different story. Its signification is moon. Its a concept of

reflection. It shows what is riding on the lagna, means your perceived image in

the society. House from lagna and from AL are different. Nature follows a

different cycle all together when it comes to AL. Its not food or agni tattva

when it comes to 2nd house from AL. So concept of associating fasting or not

fasting with AL does not fit in here.

 

There is a whole lot of thing associated with this concept which due to the

limitation of the medium cannot be taught and understood here. Gurus on this

forum may explain more.

 

Best wishes

 

Gajamukha

 

sohamsa , " Soul Sadhak " <soulsadhak wrote:

>

> Dear Maja, Michal and All,

>

> By the same reasoning, should one be avoiding fasting for UL if UL is placed

2nd to AL, since it may mean that the UL is source of sustenance for the AL?

>

> Best Regards,

> SS

>

>

> sohamsa , Maja Å trbac <majastrbacastro@> wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave Namah

> >  

> > Dear Michal and SS, namaste

> >  

> > Michal: okay it was a slip. Imagine Virgo lagna with UL in Taurus.

> >  

> > SS: same lordship over UL and 2nd bhava requires same approach on fasting.

Tithi is choice in this case.  

> >  

> > Regards,

> > Maja Strbac

> >  

> > Hari Om Tat Sat

> >

> > --- On Thu, 3/5/09, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@>

> > Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving

Points)

> > sohamsa

> > Thursday, March 5, 2009, 12:01 PM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Hare Rama Krsna ||

> >

> > Dear SS,

> >

> > How can UL be in Libra for Aries ascendant?

> >

> > Regards,

> > Michal

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Soul Sadhak <soulsadhak >

> > sohamsa@ .com

> > Friday, 6 March, 2009 3:04:22 AM

> > On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving Points)

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Michal,

> >

> > If UL is placed elsewhere (other than 2nd house), but day is same as

indicated by lord of 2nd house (e.g UL is in Libra and 2nd house is Taurus),

then what is advisable?

> >

> > Best Regards,

> > SS

> >

> > sohamsa@ .com, Michal Dziwulski <nearmichal@ ...> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hare Rama Krsna ||

> > >

> > > Dear Hari,

> > >

> > > if a person happens to fast for whatever reason on some particular

> > > day/tithi, why is it equated to an insult on the most compassionate

> > > Vishnu?

> > >

> > > I don't believe anyone here is trying to put forward the notion that

fasting on a particular day will insult Vishnu. This whole thread has become a

misunderstanding of language. The initial point was that when the UL is in the

2nd house one should not fast as this is Vishnu sthana and the 2nd house of

sustenance. To fast on this day, you could say, will create a 'conflict of

interest'. With all due respect to Zoran, because of a lack of time to be more

specific, and Serbian (not english) being his mother tongue, he used this word

'insult', which given the fallout that resulted may not have been the

write/right word to use.

> > >

> > > Nevertheless, lets not get stuck on words, lets try to understand the

principle:

> > >

> > > Say a person has UL in 2nd house Leo. If they unknowingly fast on a Sunday

then that is one thing. If they go to a Jyotishi, who should have knowledge on

these things, and they are told to fast on Sunday for a specific result, then

they and the Jyotishi may suffer from some ill result due to fasting on the day

of the 2nd lord - 'conflict of interest'. If a doctor prescribes wrong medicine

then naturally we can expect an ill result. We all agree this can happen with

gemstones.

> > >

> > > Another differentiation - fasting for UL is different to fasting for

spiritual penance, which again is different from fasting because you are a

fashion model.

> > >

> > > Anyone can encourage people to fast for spiritual penance, but only a

Jyotishi can advise someone the correct day to fast for getting married.

> > >

> > > Warm regards,

> > > Michal

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > Jyotisa Shisya <achyutagaddi@ ...>

> > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > Tuesday, 3 March, 2009 5:32:21 PM

> > > Re: Re: On Remedial Measures Difference (Re: Resolving

Points)

> > >

> > >

> > > om sri rama jaya rama jaya jaya rama

> > > Dear Sanjay/Narasimha, pranaams

> > >

> > > Please forgive me for my comments that I am about to make. First, this

discussion initially very interesting is now turning me cold.

> > >

> > > Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa repeatedly scoffed at the idea that God is

compassionate. His argument was that God has been and continues to be

compassionate from day one of our existence. And through out my life, this is

one thing that I have realized i.e., that God is very, very compassionate.

> > >

> > > So now, Sanjay, tell me one thing: if a person happens to fast for

whatever reason on some particular day/tithi, why is it equated to an insult on

the most compassionate Vishnu?

> > >

> > > Do you not find this absurd? Yet this is the crux of what was stated in a

recent discussion thread.

> > >

> > > Secondly, Sarbani wrote in this discussion thread that there are troubled

souls out there indulging in all this talk about corruption of principles and

what not. Again this is absurd as to paraphrase Mirabai, there are troubled

souls everywhere on this planet Earth and everyone of them is in search of the

truth, whatver it may be called.

> > >

> > > best regards

> > > Hari

> > >

> > > best regards

> > > Hari

> > >

> > >

> > > On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Sanjay,

> > >

> > > > No No Narasimha, mantra is beautiful. It is not *ardous* like

> > > > climbing mountain. It is beautiful like a dance â€ " yes a

dance

> > > > on top of Kailash with Lord Shiva.

> > >

> > > Well, if mantra is really like a dance on top of Kailasha for you, you are

fortunate. However, most people do have to engage in an arduous climbing to

enjoy such a dance. If I (or anybody else) were to tell people that mantras work

magically without a lot of discipline and effort and internal maturing, I would

be misleading them. If I were to tell people that their problems will be

magically solved because they came to me and got the perfect mantra to the

perfect deity, I would be misleading them.

> > >

> > > > So this sermn is very wrong really. I have mantra lord Moon in

> > > > 12th house, so it s a dance for me, you have 5th lord (mantra) in

> > > > 8th house (hard) in debility in Aries (mountain), so it like

> > > > climbing a mountain for you.

> > > > You see here also the karma plays out.

> > >

> > > Karma does indeed play out, but the question is whether we are reading it

correctly or not!

> > >

> > > Yes, my 5th lord is indeed in 8th but with several planets and aspected by

Jupiter and giving many yogas. Are we sure we are judging it correctly? Yes,

your 5th lord is in 12th, but he is in marana karaka sthana from 5th and

aspected closely by Rahu. Are we sure we are judging it correctly?

> > >

> > > Bottomline is that judging the play of karmas is not a simple thing and

one can always make mistakes. In any case, I suggest that we should not get

personal under the pretext of demonstrating how karmas play out.

> > >

> > > > Secondly, whether someone is training to be a beggar at Gods door

> > > > is the work of his/her spiritual master and NOT that of the Jyotishi.

> > > > An astrologer is *required to be humble* and not arrogate to himself

> > > > this task of asking people to be humble before God or such things.

> > >

> > > OK, so what then is the task of this " humble " astrologer? If telling

people to surrender to god and pray is arrogance, what do you call telling

people that one has knowledge which will let them get what they want from god?

Also, is it really humble to make statements that austerities can bring dangers

and insult to Vishnu? When an astrologer recommends mantras and makes statements

like these, one is already encroaching on the space of a spiritual master

somewhat.

> > >

> > > > ....since the letter is addressed to me it implies that you mean *I am

selfish*

> > >

> > > Though the mail is addressed to you, a lot of portions inside are

addressed to all. The above point is not about any specific person. I apologize

for any confusion.

> > >

> > > > > > OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for Gandanta being in 0

deg,

> > > > > > 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a junction between

agni

> > > > > > and jala...I want to her your words if you have any.

> > > > >

> > > > > Parasara's definition of gandanta is restricted to two neighboring

areas in a

> > > > > contiguous space having a predominance of fire and water elements. " I

see

> > > > > fire and I see water. So there is gandanta " is a wrong approach. One

can

> > > > > then call Venus, a watery planet, being in a fiery sign or Mars, a

fiery planet,

> > > > > being in a watery sign as gandanta. Gandanta requires a *transition*

in a

> > > > > contiguous space. In your example of upapada lord's tithi, there is no

> > > > > contiguous space where there is a water-fire transition.

> > > > >

> > > > There is something called Tithi Gandanta! Gandanta exists between

> > > > Purna and nanda tithi.

> > >

> > > Yes, but we do have a contiguous space here. The contiguous 0-360 deg

space of Sun-Moon angle has portions with predominance of different elements.

When there are transitions between portioins having a predominance of fire and

water, Parasara gave a tithi gandanta there.

> > >

> > > When you are talking about the tithi of UL lord, what is the contiguous

space, what are its portions and what are the transitions? It is an illogical

extension of gandanta.

> > >

> > > * * *

> > >

> > > In conclusion, I will sum up my main points. [This is copied from the

other mail from today and slightly edited.]

> > >

> > > (1) The knowledge needed for judging specific karmas responsible for

specific results and suggesting specific remedies is partly lost and partly

corrupted today. What we have is a non-coherent collage of some good knowledge

and a lot of corruptions.

> > >

> > > The way gandanta is being stretched and people are talking of insult to

Vishnu by fasting etc, it should be clear that knowledge is being corrupted

based on fancy imagination. People are presenting their ideas without making it

clear that those are their ideas.

> > >

> > > (2) Many people today are unable to use many specific remedies given in

shastras today. Just because one worships a specific form with a specific

mantra, things do not necessarily happen. There is a lot more needed and most of

it is not external (e.g. choice of weekday or tithi or color of clothes,

direction faced etc) but internal (e.g. discipline, patience, surrender,

humility, low ego etc). In the old days, these internal issues were pretty much

under control and mantras worked well. Now, people lack on those big time and

mantras do not work the way they are supposed to.

> > >

> > > Given the above two points, best path for one today is to surrender to a

deity, try to instill discipline, humility and patience and pray for mercy,

rather than running after astrologers for customized remedies.

> > >

> > > (3) *Austerities* like fasting do *not*harm one.

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > >

> > > Narasimha

> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

> > > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam

> > > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana

> > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom

> > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net

> > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org

> > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org

> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

> > >

> > > sohamsa@ .com, " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> wrote:

> > >

> > > om paramesthi gurave namah

> > > Dear Narasimha

> > > > Mantra Shastra is a very detailed work and includes mantra dosha etc.

> > > > It is very scientific and accurate. It takes a lifetime to master this.

> > > Some may be fascinated by the texture, color and volume of the chaff and

miss the grain.

> > > Most people who talk about mantra shastra focus on the chaff and not on

the grain.

> > > [sanjay Rath:] This sounds like saying that Einsten is bogus as Newtons

theory can explain everything! Viewpoint is very important. Perhaps what you

call the grain is the tree itself! That is the depth of knowledge which decides

whether you have the ability to reach the grain or are still searching for the

tree.

> > > * * *

> > > But the bottomline is this: Only a highly purified sadhaka of very low ego

can command specific results from god (not for selfishness or even ego

satisfaction, but acting as an unattached instrumen t of Nature fulfilling one's

dharma set by Nature). Various mantras and technicalities of mantra shastra

taught by rishis are meant for such sadhakas.

> > > [sanjay Rath:] When will you start learning this?

> > > Those are hardly of use to so many people out there with dense egos

seeking specific selfish results. They cannot command specific results from god

(because of their heavy attachment to the result, which is in turn due to their

own attachment to a limited ego), even if they use all the techniques of mantra

shastra and all the associated rules of astrology. Instead of wasting their time

with these technicalities, they will be better off learning to be good beggars

at God's door.

> > > [sanjay Rath:] This is wrong. There was a time when there were only a few

very qualified doctors and they alone could cure. When the knowledge is shared,

more doctors arrive in the planet and they too can heal.

> > > Secondly, whether someone is training to be a beggar at Gods door is the

work of his/her spiritual master and NOT that of the Jyotishi. An astrologer is

*required to be humble* and not arrogate to himself this task of asking people

to be humble before God or such things. The path that every creature takes is

that of the spiritual master they seek and follow. And it is the humility to the

Guru alone that brings the ego under control and makes it humble. One who cannot

be humble before the Guru is a gross failure when he tries to be humble before

God and submit. So what you are saying is actually *not fully correct*

> > > The first step is to be a beggar before the teacher/guru and then alone

can you be ready to be a beggar at the doors of God.

> > > Just pick any prasiddha mantra or a mantra you feel attracted to, without

worrying about so many technicalities, and learn to be humble and surrender to

the Lord. Patiently wait for him to give you what you want. Like a beggar, take

whatever and whenever he gives.

> > > [sanjay Rath:] I have done this for about 30 years now, and I believe many

people in this list have done this for maybe even longer periods. What is the

new thing you are saying?

> > > Keep praying every day or every second when you are able to. Even when you

are not praying, remember him in all of your actions. When you enjoy something

in the material world, tell yourself that it is his and that he gave it to you.

If you remember him all the time, slowly the dirt in your mind will start to get

cleaned. This fixing of attitude is faaaaaaaaaaaar more important than picking

the right mantra, right weekday, right tithi etc (that too based on unreliable

knowledge coming from questionable sources!).

> > > [sanjay Rath:] Stop giving a sermon Narasimha?? I know all this, so what

is it that you are talking about? Come to the point.

> > > It is pathetic that what you say as *unreliable source* is what you

practised for a decade and never questioned it until suddenly when you are *not

a part of the Jaimini scholar program* !!

> > > Vaara/Weekday prayers -

> > > Forget the first batch of Jaimini scholars, just ask anyone in the second

batch in year-2/3 and they can easily explain â€ "

> > > 1. Why is Lord Shiva worshipped on Mondays?

> > > 2. Why is Lord Vishnu worshipped on Thursdays?

> > > Now don’t try to tell me you did not know that Lord Shiva

is worshipped by millions of Indians on Mondays!

> > > Tithi Prayers

> > > Fasting on tithi’s concerned to the birth anniversary of

the devata on the days of the tithi are too well known. And you are a software

maker, have written papers on this also. So why this sudden volta-face?

> > > Ekadashi fasting is done by a few millions of people for Krishna for Yuga

santarana i.e. tiding over the Yuga effects.

> > > Why is ekadashi fasting advocated for this? What link does Ekadashi have

to Kali yuga? You do not know the answer does not mean that it is wrong. And if

you know the answer, then why do you say that the tithi fasting is wrong??!

> > > * * *

> > > There may be a mountain with thousands of paths (mantra) for climbing it.

Each path may lead to a different spot (different experience) on the top and

show a different scenery (result). Expert advisors (astrologers) may tell you to

use a specific path (mantra) to see a specific scenery (result). But such advice

is useless to a handicapped person without legs (a selfish person with dense

ego). It is relevant only to person with legs and one who is strong and sturdy,

who can successfully climb the mountain (a reasonably detached person with very

little ego).

> > > [sanjay Rath:] Another Sermon about being selfish

> > > ....since the letter is addressed to me it implies that you mean *I am

selfish*. ...and now people will be wondering about what am I selfish? Is it

because I did not share the Jaimni scholar lectures? I invited you and een was

prepard to shift dates, but you were too busy filming about

Krishna’s birth or something.

> > > Even when you encounter a person who has legs and can actually climb the

mountain, the stress should be on how to climb the mountain and traverse the

long path, rather than which path to take. The astrologers who are bogged down

by all the technicalities and people who take customized mantra advice from

astrologers and think that they will get a result quickly by doing that

'powerful' mantra are missing the basic point. The power of a powerful mantra is

with respect to the experience and result obtained *after* one succeeds with the

mantra. A partcicularly powerful mantra is akin to a path leading to a point

atop the mountain where the view shows a particularly beautiful scenery. But the

bottomline is that you do have to survive the climb along the long path.

> > > [sanjay Rath:] No No Narasimha, mantra is beautiful. It is not *ardous*

like climbing mountain. It is beautiful like a dance â€ " yes a

dance on top of Kailash with Lord Shiva.

> > > So this sermn is very wrong really. I have mantra lord Moon in 12th house,

so it s a dance for me, you have 5th lord (mantra) in 8th house (hard) in

debility in Aries (mountain), so it like climbing a mountain for you.

> > > You see here also the karma plays out.

> > > We need to emphasize the attitude and approach needed for the long climb,

rather than emphasizing the choice of the path based on horoscope. It is worth

noting that so many great spiritual teachers who came in the last century or two

did not emphasize picking the right mantra based on horoscope etc. Instead, they

emphasized having the correct attitude - surrender, submission, devotion,

patience, persistence, discipline, humility etc!!!! *That* is a lot more

important and useful than trying to be oversmart with the choice of mantra, day

etc and impress god.

> > > [sanjay Rath:] Really and how do you wish to *STANDADIZE* this? You have a

given formula for the approach and attitude or is it borrowed from another, and

if so then why are you assuming that the people in this list do not know about

*surrender, submission, devotion, patience, persistence, discipline, humility

etc!!!! *

> > > No one is trying to be over smart. They are being smart.

> > > They are only using certain rules to approach based on available

knowledge. And that knowledge seems to be bothering you like your problem with

Upapada fasting.

> > > * * *

> > > > when should the worship of a graha be done? Let us say someone

> > > > wishes to worship Mars (Mangala graha). When do you think this

> > > > worship should be done?

> > >

> > > You can do anyday. Parasara does not mention any day for doing homam to a

graha.

> > > In fact, if one wants, one can do a homam or worship to Mars (or any

planet) every day. It is even better that way.

> > > If an astrologer suggests doing it on a Tuesday, it is fine. But saying

that doing it on so and so day will bring serious dangers because Mars is an

enemy of so and so planet would be stretching things.

> > > [sanjay Rath:] Read the PURANAS. What you write clearly shows lack of

understanding  of the Puranas. Why would the Rishi advise a particular day?

Are they wrong? Why is the Gayatri initiation done on Wednesdays and Thursdays?

Why is it not done on Saturday?

> > > You earlier said that this can be done on any day, then why did they

advise a particular day for this?

> > > > [sanjay Rath:] Where do you think Veda Vyasa (Krishna dvaipaayana) got

his

> > > > knowledge and those who wrote it as scribes for him, where did they get

it from?

> > >

> > > From Self - from within. That is the source of all knowledge. A sadguru

need not specifically teach thousand things, but needs to open the door inside.

> > > [sanjay Rath:] THAT IS AHAMKARA speaking.

> > > The correct answer in complete humility is  " The knowledge

comes from one source â€ " Bhagavan.†Surrender to Him

and he is the one who will have the door opened, and then the self will

gradually fade away like a mist coming over a house.

> > > * * *

> > > > OK, just spell it out. What is the reason for Gandanta being in 0 deg,

> > > > 120 deg and 240 deg of the zodiac if it is not a junction between agni

> > > > and jala...I want to her your words if you have any.

> > > Parasara's definition of gandanta is restricted to two neighboring areas

in a contiguous space having a predominance of fire and water elements. " I see

fire and I see water. So there is gandanta " is a wrong approach. One can then

call Venus, a watery planet, being in a fiery sign or Mars, a fiery planet,

being in a watery sign as gandanta. Gandanta requires a *transition* in a

contiguous space.

> > > In your example of upapada lord's tithi, there is no contiguous space

where there is a water-fire transition.

> > > [sanjay Rath:] There is something called Tithi Gandanta! Gandanta exists

between Purna and nanda tithi.

> > > What is wrong with tithi fasting related to the devata of the planet

associated with the Upapada? While Vara vrata will bring about marriage, tithi

vrata associated with the devata should sustain it? Similarly, malefic in the

12th house can also be pacified either by their devata or if there are planets

in the 8th house, then these planets shall support.

> > > > Now somewhere you talked of wasting time!!! Look what you are doing.

> > > > You were asked to work on Parashara by your Spiritual Master, and

> > > > are you doing that? Me10, Ve7, Ve6...good research but is that from

> > > > Parashara?

> > >

> > > Well, Me10, Ve7 etc theory is based on marrying two different teachings of

Parasara (bhava karakas and special lagnas). I do not really consider it as my

creation but as understanding Parasara's teachings only.

> > > [sanjay Rath:] Special Lagna are derived on the principle of circular

motion and the Sun as the Lagna in the first place is derived from the Sun.

> > > What you have done is to treat every planet like the Sun which is wrong.

> > > The normal procedure for looking at the karaka bhava is Me10 = 10th house

from Mercury; Ve7 is 7th house from Venus and so on...in the rasi and varga

charts.

> > > Narasimha, this is your creation and NOT taught in BPHS. Please do not

twist.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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> > >

> >

> >

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> >

>