Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009  G.K.GOEL Ph: 09350311433 Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR NEW DELHI-110 076 INDIA ----- Forwarded Message ---- Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937 No Reply <notify-dg-sohamsa > Tuesday, 14 July, 2009 6:46:40 PM Re: Digest Number 2603 Dear Friends, Mr. Imran has given a good synopsis of Sambandha among the planets.Each kind or group of sambandha has a specific purpose. It does not have universal applicability. In case of assessment of dasa periods in vimsottari dasa system, the effects are accessed based on Swabhaba of planets(which depends on the ownership of Bhavas), their placement and thirdly their strength(BPHS ch48sl 2).The four kinds of sambandhas enumerated in ch35sl 11and 12 of BPHS is to access Rajyogas.Here all the nine planets aspect 7H and three outer planets have two additional aspects. The BEAUTY of the full aspects of outer planets is that they are able to connect any two planets placed in different bhavas ,in any disposition. Generally , savants are not paying due attention on the following grouping of houses including ARGAL houses as taught in BPHS: 1.. Chatur rasra -4th and 8th houses :These houses are so important that all planets cast aspect on these houses having 75% of full aspect strength. From any house or planet , if malefics are placed in these houses ,its signification will be adversely effected. If benefics are placed in these places ,results will be beneficial.Similarly , a malefic planet will adversely effect the signification of these houses from it This is a very powerful principle and should not be ignored. 2. Argala houses-  2nd, 4th and 11th houses provide main argala.Badhak  argala houses are 12th,10, 3rd houses respectively  If malefic are placed in 3rd house it give benefic Argala. More the malefic influence on 3rd is all the more better. It looks so intriguing that some persons call it as  a only Jaimni principle.BPHS has devoted a separate chapter on this principle. If  debilitated Saturn or Sun is placed in Apoklim houses their angular houses significance will  get strengthen.. If they are in 3rd , Lgna will have positive effect, if in 6th house ,will give property and so on. Similarly , 5th and 8th houses will give auxiliary argala 3. Upchaya places -3rd,6th, 10 and 11th houses- they are good for material  prosperity.The lords of 3rd ,6th and 11th houses are called papa.This  does not mean that they have no role to play in material upliftment. Lord of 3rd generate KAMA , 6TH KRODHA and 11th excessive GREED. THESE ARE NECESSARY IF ARE KEPT IN CONTROL. K.P.System says that sub -lords of 1st,2nd and upchaya gives gains (Material gains).KP picks up one leaf from BPHS and its vimsottari dasa , and claimed to have created new system. kindly see the power of upchaya places. BPHS is a monumental work and many concepts are hidden. in it  It is upto us to put these concept in practical use. Regards,  G.K.GOEL Ph: 09350311433 Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR NEW DELHI-110 076 INDIA ________________________________ " sohamsa " <sohamsa > sohamsa Tuesday, 14 July, 2009 2:28:47 PM Digest Number 2603 SoHamsa Messages In This Digest (1 Message) 1a. Re: Sambandha: Celestial Connection tarungarg View All Topics | Create New Topic Message 1a. Re: Sambandha: Celestial Connection Posted by: " tarungarg " tarungarg  tarungarg Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:10 pm (PDT) |Hare Rama Krishna| Respected Imran and Gurus, This was a good synopsis of the various types of interactions between the planets when they are placed in a chart. The next step I guess would be to analyze the particular sambandha and understanding the nature of the interaction. Like the lordships of the two planets concerned and the naisargika sambandha between the two. Two highly inimical planets causing a yoga would probably fight it out with each other. taking an example if we assume a Aries lagna and the Surya and shukra are in Yuti in the 5th bhava, here it should be a Rajya Yoga because of the trine lord meeting the kendra lord however since the naisargika sambandha of the Sun and Ve is inimical, what kind of a challange would that pose? They would be battling it out with each other rather than giving the rajya yoga? Some more light on this aspect would be highly beneficial. Also The compound relationship for for the two would be highly inimical also(Adi Shatru). If that Ve is combust that poses another dimension to the equation. Regards Tarun sohamsa@ .com, " M. Imran " <astroimran@ ...> wrote: > > Sambandha: Celestial Connection > > > In all nativities planets at certain > longitudinal distance and placement from each constitute various kinds of > relationship which is known as sambandha. It is a fundamental concept in jyotish, > especially useful in assessing the transfer of influence between two grahas, > involved in certain yoga or functioning as dasnatha and bhuktinatha. > > Standard jyotish treatises do not differ > much on the issue of relationship among planets. Father of Indian astrology > Parashara enunciated following four types of sambandha. > > Sambandha Name Meaning > 1 Kshetra Sambandha Exchange or Parivartana > 2 Drisht Sambandha Mutual Aspect > 3 Yuti Sambandha Conjunction > 4 Adhishisht Sambandha Unidirectional Aspect > > Whereas Mantraswara provides five types of > planetary relationships between two planets (vide Phaladeepika chapter > 15, verse 30). > 1) Exchange or Reception > 2) Conjunction > 3) Mutual Aspect > 4) Mutual Angle > 5) Mutual Trine > > On the other hand, Kalidasa and Venkateswara > suggest just three types of graha sambandha. > 1) Exchange > 2) Conjunction > 3) Mutual Aspect > > But I would prefer the Parashar’s scheme. > Let’s understand his four categories of graha sambandha. > > 1) Kshetra Sambandha > > This planetary relation brings forth when > two planets mutually occupy each other’s sign. Almost all sources have ranked > this sambandha most effective and most powerful (60 virupa or 100%). Kshetra > sambandha (also called parivartana) is somewhat a rare planetary relationship > and does neither depend upon longitudinal distance nor closeness. Planets > involve in kshetra sambandha exchange their full effects which surely accrue in > their mutual dasha/antar. In western astrology, this cosmic connection is known > as ‘reception’. > > Examples: Moon is into Pisces and Jupiter > into Cancer; Sun is into Virgo and Mercury is into Leo; Mars into Libra and > Venus into Aries etc. > > 2)Drisht Sambandha > > Mutual aspect between two planets results > in drisht sambandha. By drishti means full graha drishti here, and not the rasi > drishti (sign aspect). Drisht sambandha leads to partial switch over (some > assumes 75%, some takes 50%) of influence. Besides, some astrologers do not > consider the deeptamsa or longitudinal orb (i.e. range of concentration) while > evaluating aspect, however, Parashar’s Spusht Drishti methodology (vide BPHS chapter 28) supports to consider orb. This relationship is not possible > between, Sun, Mercury and Venus. > > Examples: Jupiter is into Libra and Moon is > into Aries; Mars is into Gemini and Saturn is into Virgo; Venus is into Pisces > and Saturn is into Virgo etc. > > 3)Yuti Sambandha > > Yuti Sambandha is a conjunction of two > planets in a rashi. This is a common planetary relation, and Parashar ranked it > after paraspara drishti (mutual aspect). > Apart from it, in western astrology > conjunction is also possible when two planets are at extreme degrees of > different signs, e.g., Mercury is at 29 degree of Aquarius and Venus at 2 > degree of Pisces. But in Indian astrology yuti is only possible when both the > planets fall in one sign. However difference of opinion exist whether orb > should consider or not. > > Examples: Venus and Moon are closely placed > in Capricorn; Sun and Mercury is sitting together in Leo; Mars and Jupiter are > conjoined in Cancer etc. > > 4) Adhishisht Sambandha > > This is a relationship based on > unidirectional aspect, i..e. planet A should aspect planet B, but planet B > should not aspect A. This is not a usual relationship since it is only possible > when one of the planets is Mars, Jupiter or Saturn, as they have additional > aspect beside commonly known 7th-house (180 degree) aspect. However, consensus > does not exist among commentators whether dispositorship should be taken or > not. A common view is that when dispositor of any planet aspects the occupant > but occupant doesn’t aspect its dispositor. Sometimes it is called drishta > kshetra sambandha > > Examples: Sun is in Aries and Mars in > Virgo. Here if Sun occupies in Aries then Mars automatically becomes the dispositor > of Sun. Now Mars is into Virgo then it obviously casts its full aspect over Sun. > On the other hand, Sun is unable to aspect Mars. Similarly Moon in Pisces and > Jupiter in Scorpio; or Mercury in Aquarius and Saturn in Taurus causes > Adhishisht Sambandha. > > *) Mutual Kendra and Mutual Trikona > > It is not only Mantreswara who propounds > the planets in mutual Kendra and mutual trikona lead to sambandha. Parashara > ranked planets, placed in kendra with respect to each others, as a mutual > karaka (vide, BPHS, chapter 34, verses 25-30) if they are in their signs > of exaltation, own or friend. Similarly readers may find the utmost > significance of mutual trine in Nadi literature based on karakattwas. > Horoscopes explained in Bhrigu Nandi Nadi, chiefly weigh mutual trine and > planets in them reckoned from a certain karaka. In fact, natural benefic in > trine to a karaka causes bhagya yoga concerning signification of that karaka. > On the other hand, nadi works also regarded dwirdwadasa (mutual 2nd-12th > relation) as a supportive sambandha if formed by friendly benefic planets. But > shadashtaka (mutual 6th-8th relation) is unanimously considered an evil > signature between a karaka and concerned bhavesha especially when a natural > malefic simultaneously aspect either significator or pertained house lord. > > Illustration > > November 19, 1917 > Time: 11:03:00 pm > Time > Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT) > Place: 81 E 52' 00 " , 25 N 28' 00 " > > > +----------- --------- --------- --------- --------- + > |HL |GL AL |JuR Gk |Ke Md | > | | | | | > | | | | | > | | | | | > | | | | | > |----------- +-------- --------- ------+-- --------- | > | | |As Sa | > | | | | > | | | | > | | | | > | | | | > |----------- | Rasi |----------- | > |Mo | |Ma | > | | | | > | | | | > | | | | > | | | | > |----------- +-------- --------- ------+-- --------- | > |Ve Ra |Su Me | | | > | | | | | > | | | | | > | | | | | > | | | | | > +----------- --------- --------- --------- --------- + > > Rasi > +----------- --------- --------- --------- --------- + > | > \ / \ Md / | > | \ Ma / \ Ke / | > | \ / \ / | > | \ / Sa \ / | > | \ / \ / | > | x As x Gk JuR | > | / \ / \ | > | / \ / \ | > | / \ / \ | > | / \ 4 / AL \ | > | / \ / \ | > | x GL | > | > \ / \ / | > | \ / \ / | > | \ / \ / | > | \ / \ / | > | \ / \ / | > |Su Me x Mo x HL | > | / \ / \ | > | / \ / \ | > | / \ / \ | > | / Ve \ / \ | > | / Ra \ / \ | > +----------- --------- --------- --------- --------- + > > > Here Saturn is in Cancer (a sign ruled by > Moon) and Moon is in Capricorn (a sign owned by Saturn). This exchange of sign > lords lead to kshetra sambandha between Saturn and Moon. Similarly, Mars in Leo > and Sun in Scorpio also forms parivartana and thus hold kshetra sambandha. A > very sambandha also constitutes between Venus and Jupiter since they in each > other’s sign. > > Jupiter and Mercury are opposite to each > other and forming drisht sambandh. Mutual aspect between Sun and Jupiter also > exist but it not as power as between Jupiter and Mercury on account of orb. > Similarly Saturn and Moon are also fully aspecting each other making drisht > sambandha (apart from keshtra sambandha). > > Sun and Mercury situated in Scorpio results > in yuti sambandha. Association of Rahu and Venus also forms yuti in > Sagittarius. > > Adhishisht sambandha exists between Sun > (who is in Scorpio) and Mars (who is in Leo). Mars, being dispositor of Sun, is > aspecting Sun but in turns Sun is does not aspecting Mars. If dispositorship is > not considered here then also there lies adhishisht sambandha between Moon and > Jupiter, as Moon is getting aspect of Jupiter but not transferring its full > glance to Jupiter. > > Regards, > M. Imran > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (3) Recent Activity *  3 New MembersVisit Your Group Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Search Ads Get new customers. List your web site in Search. Y! Groups blog the best source for the latest scoop on Groups. Need to Reply? Click one of the " Reply " links to respond to a specific message in the Daily Digest. 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Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 G.K.GOELPh: 09350311433Add: L-409, SARITA VIHARNEW DELHI-110 076INDIA ----- Forwarded Message ----Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937No Reply <notify-dg-sohamsa >Tuesday, 14 July, 2009 6:46:40 PMRe: Digest Number 2603 Dear Friends, Mr. Imran has given a good synopsis of Sambandha among the planets.Each kind or group of sambandha has a specific purpose. It does not have universal applicability. In case of assessment of dasa periods in vimsottari dasa system, the effects are accessed based on Swabhaba of planets(which depends on the ownership of Bhavas), their placement and thirdly their strength(BPHS ch48sl 2).The four kinds of sambandhas enumerated in ch35sl 11and 12 of BPHS is to access Rajyogas.Here all the nine planets aspect 7H and three outer planets have two additional aspects. The BEAUTY of the full aspects of outer planets is that they are able to connect any two planets placed in different bhavas ,in any disposition. Generally , savants are not paying due attention on the following grouping of houses including ARGAL houses as taught in BPHS: 1. Chatur rasra -4th and 8th houses :These houses are so important that all planets cast aspect on these houses having 75% of full aspect strength. From any house or planet , if malefics are placed in these houses ,its signification will be adversely effected. If benefics are placed in these places ,results will be beneficial.Similarly , a malefic planet will adversely effect the signification of these houses from it This is a very powerful principle and should not be ignored. 2. Argala houses- 2nd, 4th and 11th houses provide main argala.Badhak argala houses are 12th,10, 3rd houses respectively If malefic are placed in 3rd house it give benefic Argala. More the malefic influence on 3rd is all the more better. It looks so intriguing that some persons call it as a only Jaimni principle.BPHS has devoted a separate chapter on this principle. If debilitated Saturn or Sun is placed in Apoklim houses their angular houses significance will get strengthen. If they are in 3rd , Lgna will have positive effect, if in 6th house ,will give property and so on. Similarly , 5th and 8th houses will give auxiliary argala 3. Upchaya places -3rd,6th, 10 and 11th houses- they are good for material prosperity.The lords of 3rd ,6th and 11th houses are called papa.This does not mean that they have no role to play in material upliftment. Lord of 3rd generate KAMA , 6TH KRODHA and 11th excessive GREED. THESE ARE NECESSARY IF ARE KEPT IN CONTROL. K.P.System says that sub -lords of 1st,2nd and upchaya gives gains (Material gains).KP picks up one leaf from BPHS and its vimsottari dasa , and claimed to have created new system. kindly see the power of upchaya places. BPHS is a monumental work and many concepts are hidden. in it It is upto us to put these concept in practical use. Regards, G.K.GOELPh: 09350311433Add: L-409, SARITA VIHARNEW DELHI-110 076INDIA "sohamsa " <sohamsa >sohamsa Sent: Tuesday, 14 July, 2009 2:28:47 PM Digest Number 2603 SoHamsa Messages In This Digest (1 Message) 1a. Re: Sambandha: Celestial Connection tarungarg View All Topics | Create New Topic Message 1a. Re: Sambandha: Celestial Connection Posted by: "tarungarg" tarungarg tarungarg Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:10 pm (PDT) |Hare Rama Krishna|Respected Imran and Gurus,This was a good synopsis of the various types of interactions between the planets when they are placed in a chart. The next step I guess would be to analyze the particular sambandha and understanding the nature of the interaction. Like the lordships of the two planets concerned and the naisargika sambandha between the two. Two highly inimical planets causing a yoga would probably fight it out with each other. taking an example if we assume a Aries lagna and the Surya and shukra are in Yuti in the 5th bhava, here it should be a Rajya Yoga because of the trine lord meeting the kendra lord however since the naisargika sambandha of the Sun and Ve is inimical, what kind of a challange would that pose? They would be battling it out with each other rather than giving the rajya yoga? Some more light on this aspect would be highly beneficial. Also The compound relationship for for the two would be highly inimical also(Adi Shatru). If that Ve is combust that poses another dimension to the equation. RegardsTarun sohamsa@ .com, "M. Imran" <astroimran@ ...> wrote:>> Sambandha: Celestial Connection> > > In all nativities planets at certain> longitudinal distance and placement from each constitute various kinds of> relationship which is known as sambandha. It is a fundamental concept in jyotish,> especially useful in assessing the transfer of influence between two grahas,> involved in certain yoga or functioning as dasnatha and bhuktinatha. > > Standard jyotish treatises do not differ> much on the issue of relationship among planets. Father of Indian astrology> Parashara enunciated following four types of sambandha.> > Sambandha Name Meaning > 1 Kshetra Sambandha Exchange or Parivartana > 2 Drisht Sambandha Mutual Aspect > 3 Yuti Sambandha Conjunction > 4 Adhishisht Sambandha Unidirectional Aspect > > Whereas Mantraswara provides five types of> planetary relationships between two planets (vide Phaladeepika chapter> 15, verse 30).> 1) Exchange or Reception> 2) Conjunction> 3) Mutual Aspect> 4) Mutual Angle > 5) Mutual Trine> > On the other hand, Kalidasa and Venkateswara> suggest just three types of graha sambandha.> 1) Exchange> 2) Conjunction > 3) Mutual Aspect> > But I would prefer the Parashar’s scheme.> Let’s understand his four categories of graha sambandha.> > 1) Kshetra Sambandha> > This planetary relation brings forth when> two planets mutually occupy each other’s sign. Almost all sources have ranked> this sambandha most effective and most powerful (60 virupa or 100%). Kshetra> sambandha (also called parivartana) is somewhat a rare planetary relationship> and does neither depend upon longitudinal distance nor closeness. Planets> involve in kshetra sambandha exchange their full effects which surely accrue in> their mutual dasha/antar. In western astrology, this cosmic connection is known> as ‘reception’.> > Examples: Moon is into Pisces and Jupiter> into Cancer; Sun is into Virgo and Mercury is into Leo; Mars into Libra and> Venus into Aries etc. > > 2)Drisht Sambandha> > Mutual aspect between two planets results> in drisht sambandha. By drishti means full graha drishti here, and not the rasi> drishti (sign aspect). Drisht sambandha leads to partial switch over (some> assumes 75%, some takes 50%) of influence. Besides, some astrologers do not> consider the deeptamsa or longitudinal orb (i.e. range of concentration) while> evaluating aspect, however, Parashar’s Spusht Drishti methodology (vide BPHS chapter 28) supports to consider orb. This relationship is not possible> between, Sun, Mercury and Venus. > > Examples: Jupiter is into Libra and Moon is> into Aries; Mars is into Gemini and Saturn is into Virgo; Venus is into Pisces> and Saturn is into Virgo etc.> > 3)Yuti Sambandha> > Yuti Sambandha is a conjunction of two> planets in a rashi. This is a common planetary relation, and Parashar ranked it> after paraspara drishti (mutual aspect). > Apart from it, in western astrology> conjunction is also possible when two planets are at extreme degrees of> different signs, e.g., Mercury is at 29 degree of Aquarius and Venus at 2> degree of Pisces. But in Indian astrology yuti is only possible when both the> planets fall in one sign. However difference of opinion exist whether orb> should consider or not. > > Examples: Venus and Moon are closely placed> in Capricorn; Sun and Mercury is sitting together in Leo; Mars and Jupiter are> conjoined in Cancer etc.> > 4) Adhishisht Sambandha> > This is a relationship based on> unidirectional aspect, i.e. planet A should aspect planet B, but planet B> should not aspect A. This is not a usual relationship since it is only possible> when one of the planets is Mars, Jupiter or Saturn, as they have additional> aspect beside commonly known 7th-house (180 degree) aspect. However, consensus> does not exist among commentators whether dispositorship should be taken or> not. A common view is that when dispositor of any planet aspects the occupant> but occupant doesn’t aspect its dispositor. Sometimes it is called drishta> kshetra sambandha> > Examples: Sun is in Aries and Mars in> Virgo. Here if Sun occupies in Aries then Mars automatically becomes the dispositor> of Sun. Now Mars is into Virgo then it obviously casts its full aspect over Sun.> On the other hand, Sun is unable to aspect Mars. Similarly Moon in Pisces and> Jupiter in Scorpio; or Mercury in Aquarius and Saturn in Taurus causes> Adhishisht Sambandha.> > *) Mutual Kendra and Mutual Trikona> > It is not only Mantreswara who propounds> the planets in mutual Kendra and mutual trikona lead to sambandha. Parashara> ranked planets, placed in kendra with respect to each others, as a mutual> karaka (vide, BPHS, chapter 34, verses 25-30) if they are in their signs> of exaltation, own or friend. Similarly readers may find the utmost> significance of mutual trine in Nadi literature based on karakattwas.> Horoscopes explained in Bhrigu Nandi Nadi, chiefly weigh mutual trine and> planets in them reckoned from a certain karaka. In fact, natural benefic in> trine to a karaka causes bhagya yoga concerning signification of that karaka.> On the other hand, nadi works also regarded dwirdwadasa (mutual 2nd-12th> relation) as a supportive sambandha if formed by friendly benefic planets. But> shadashtaka (mutual 6th-8th relation) is unanimously considered an evil> signature between a karaka and concerned bhavesha especially when a natural> malefic simultaneously aspect either significator or pertained house lord. > > Illustration > > November 19, 1917> Time: 11:03:00 pm> Time> Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)> Place: 81 E 52' 00", 25 N 28' 00"> > > +----------- --------- --------- --------- --------- +> |HL |GL AL |JuR Gk |Ke Md |> | | | | |> | | | | |> | | | | |> | | | | |> |----------- +-------- --------- ------+-- --------- |> | | |As Sa |> | | | |> | | | |> | | | |> | | | |> |----------- | Rasi |----------- |> |Mo | |Ma |> | | | |> | | | |> | | | |> | | | |> |----------- +-------- --------- ------+-- --------- |> |Ve Ra |Su Me | | |> | | | | |> | | | | |> | | | | |> | | | | |> +----------- --------- --------- --------- --------- +> > Rasi > +----------- --------- --------- --------- --------- +> |> \ / \ Md / |> | \ Ma / \ Ke / |> | \ / \ / |> | \ / Sa \ / |> | \ / \ / |> | x As x Gk JuR |> | / \ / \ |> | / \ / \ |> | / \ / \ |> | / \ 4 / AL \ |> | / \ / \ |> | x GL |> |> \ / \ / |> | \ / \ / |> | \ / \ / |> | \ / \ / |> | \ / \ / |> |Su Me x Mo x HL |> | / \ / \ |> | / \ / \ |> | / \ / \ |> | / Ve \ / \ |> | / Ra \ / \ |> +----------- --------- --------- --------- --------- +> > > Here Saturn is in Cancer (a sign ruled by> Moon) and Moon is in Capricorn (a sign owned by Saturn). This exchange of sign> lords lead to kshetra sambandha between Saturn and Moon. Similarly, Mars in Leo> and Sun in Scorpio also forms parivartana and thus hold kshetra sambandha. A> very sambandha also constitutes between Venus and Jupiter since they in each> other’s sign. > > Jupiter and Mercury are opposite to each> other and forming drisht sambandh. Mutual aspect between Sun and Jupiter also> exist but it not as power as between Jupiter and Mercury on account of orb.> Similarly Saturn and Moon are also fully aspecting each other making drisht> sambandha (apart from keshtra sambandha). > > Sun and Mercury situated in Scorpio results> in yuti sambandha. Association of Rahu and Venus also forms yuti in> Sagittarius. > > Adhishisht sambandha exists between Sun> (who is in Scorpio) and Mars (who is in Leo). Mars, being dispositor of Sun, is> aspecting Sun but in turns Sun is does not aspecting Mars. If dispositorship is> not considered here then also there lies adhishisht sambandha between Moon and> Jupiter, as Moon is getting aspect of Jupiter but not transferring its full> glance to Jupiter. > > Regards,> M. Imran> Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (3) Recent Activity 3 New MembersVisit Your Group Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Search Ads Get new customers. List your web site in Search. Y! Groups blog the best source for the latest scoop on Groups. Need to Reply? Click one of the "Reply" links to respond to a specific message in the Daily Digest. Create New Topic | Visit Your Group on the Web Messages | Photos | Links MARKETPLACE Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families, for the world and for each other Change settings via the Web ( ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Individual | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Terms of Use | Un recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. Looking for local information? Find it on Local Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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