Special nakshatras for 27 or 28 stars (Ramakrishna, Shiva...)

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

> Secondly, the abhiśeka nakṣatra is the last nakṣatra,

> be it the 27 or 28 naká¹£atra scheme that we use. You are

> again wrong here

 

To say that one can find special nakshatras using *either* 27-star scheme *or*

28-star scheme is not logical.

 

Suppose one is born in Abhijit as per 28 star scheme and Uttarashadha as per 27

star scheme. You are saying that one can take *either* Uttarashadha *or*

Poorvashadha as the abhisheka nakshatra. That is illogical. There should be

*one* clearly defined abhisheka nakshatra. The fact that 28th star from the

birth star was specifically mentioned as abhisheka nakshatra in classics means

that 28-star scheme should be used and not 27-star scheme.

 

> Thirdly, like the ÄrÅ«á¸ha, it will take a little time

> for people to digest, so take your time.

 

It is a fundamental principle of debate that a condescending and confident tone

does not make up for a lack of substance in one's argument.

 

> There is no clear formula in jyotish

 

Yes, there may be no perfect and clear formulas in Jyotish. But, if one is using

the correct building blocks and connecting them correctly, it should be possible

to have some well-defined principles that work in a good percentage of cases

(though not 100%) and do much better than random probabilities. Unfortunately,

the principle in your book does not do better than random probabilities and

hence not meaningful.

 

That was my starting point and I tried hard to find some formula that is common

to those seven charts but not common in general. Despite hard work, I could not

find any. I only said that I prayed to Parasara after homam and a formula struck

to my mind which fits the bill nicely and laid it out with examples. Instead of

examining the formula, learned people focused on surrounding issues and tried to

misrepresent me by putting words in my mouth.

 

At the end, all you manage to say is that " there is no clear formula in

jyotish " . Then why did you exhort me that there should be a " clear HYPOTHESIS " ?

Ironically, I did give a clear hypothesis. It is you who is saying " there is no

clear formula " .

 

> time and again we have seen that every yoga has worked

> in some charts and failed in others

 

If a yoga that is supposed to show a king is present in 30% charts of kings and

40% charts of normal people, the yoga is meaningless. Something is wrong.

 

On the other hand, if a yoga that is supposed to show a king is present in 80%

charts of kings and only in 15% charts of normal people, the correlation is

signigicant and the yoga is meaningful.

 

Thus, there is a way to analyze how good a yoga is, though no yoga works 100%.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

 

Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

Spirituality:

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

 

 

sohamsa , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath wrote:

> oṠgurave namaḥ

>

> Dear Narasiá¹ha

>

> Firstly, that is the first volume of the book to show how the 27 naká¹£atra

work

>

> Secondly, the abhiśeka nakṣatra is the last nakṣatra, be it the 27 or 28

naká¹£atra scheme that we use. You are again wrong here

>

> Thirdly, like the ÄrÅ«á¸ha, it will take a little time for people to digest,

so take your time. There is no clear formula in jyotish and time and again we

have seen that every yoga has worked in some charts and failed in others. It

depends on how high we are aiming to go in this subject to learn the *fine

print* of the rishi

>

> Best Wishes

>

> Sanjay Rath

>

> WebPages: <http://srath.com/> http://srath.com

>

> Jaimini Scholar: <http://sohamsa.com/> http://sohamsa.com

>

> SJC: <http://.org/> http://.org

>

> Jyotish Digest, Books: <http://sagittariuspublications.com/>

http://sagittariuspublications.com

>

> sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of

Narasimha PVR Rao

> 15 September 2009 02:36

> sohamsa

> Re: Ramakrishna, Shiva and Abhisheka Nakshatra

>

> Namaste,

>

> > It is so simple and so obvious. I am really surprised

> > that you could not see it. Now go back and work out the

> > other examples

>

> Several new factors are introduced here, diluting the original principle. If

one keeps adding new parameters, one can explain any number of charts. If there

is a clearly and objectively defined principle that works for most of the great

saints/yogis and does not work for most of the normal people, that will mean

something.

>

> You talked about a clear hypothesis below ( " There must be a clear

HYPOTHESIS " ). I gave mine in clear objective terms. It is not something that

commonly occurs in many charts and is a rare combination. But it occurs in 7 top

notch yogi/saint charts I picked. What exactly is *your* " clear HYPOTHESIS " ,

regarding the use of abhisheka nakshatra to see " high level souls " that

experience high level spiritual realization?

>

> There seemed to be a clear hypothesis in the book, which did not work, but now

you seem to be implying that there is a lot of *fine print*.

>

> If you are able to lay down a hypothesis in clear objective terms, please do

so and we can then evaluate it.

>

> * * *

>

> The correlation that Vivekananda and Ramakrishna had AK owning the abhisheka

nakshatra was pointed out as some important factor. But, given how many normal

people have it and given that several spiritual greats do not have it, one

wonders whether that correlation has any significance at all. One also wonders

how many irrelevant correlations were incorrectly observed and highlighted by

modern Jyotish authors..

>

> Moreover, we are mixing up different spaces here. Abhisheka nakshatra is

defined in the space of 28 stars and Vimsottari lordship is in a space of 27

stars (Abhijit can be abhisheka nakshatra. It has a part of Uttarashadha lorded

by Sun and a part of Sravana lorded by Moon). To top it, AK is defined in a

space of 8 planets and not 9. Thus, there is mixing up of apples and oranges and

grapes here and that makes it is an ill-constructed principle. The fact that it

does not do well in practical evaluation does not help either.

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

> -------------------------

> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> Spirituality:

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> -------------------------

>

> sohamsa <sohamsa%40> , " Sanjay

Rath " <sanjayrath@> wrote:

> >

> > oṠgurave namaḥ

> >

> > Here is one example.

> >

> > Sarada Mata - born in cancer lagna with the lagneśa Moon, compassionate

and caring, as the chara ÄÂtmakÄÂraka in Uttara PhÄÂlguṇī

naká¹£atra. The abhiÅ›eka tÄÂrÄ is PÅ«rva PhÄÂlguṇī

which is ruled by Venus the natural significator of spouse which is placed in

the 7th house of marriage. Therefore the one who deserves the abhiśeka is

her spouse Ã…Å¡rÄ« Ramakrshna Paramhaá¹Âsa. Venus is in Capricorn and

ÄÂtmakÄÂraka Moon is in the sammukha rÄÂÅ›i Leo forming YÄÂnavanta

Yoga. It is very obvious that she is very spiritual but her path to spiritual

enlightenment and moká¹£a comes from her spouse.

> >

> > It is so simple and so obvious. I am really surprised that you could not see

it. Now go back and work out the other examples

> >

> > Best Wishes, Sanjay Rath

> >

> > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>

[sohamsa <sohamsa%40> ] On Behalf

Of Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

> > 14 September 2009 05:16

> > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>

> > Re: Ramakrishna, Shiva and Abhisheka Nakshatra

> >

> > Pranaam Sanjay,

> >

> > > However, there are many examples like Sarada Mata, Ramana Maharshi,

> > > Swami Chandrasekhara Saraswati, Srila Prabhupada and Swami Sivananda,

> > > which do not satisfy the criterion. All of them are definitely " high level

souls

> > > having incarnated " .

> >

> > > [sJR::] It is not good to cast aspersions on the writings of someone

without

> > > giving examples in detail.

> >

> > A factual statement accompanied by the names of spiritual giants who serve

as counter-examples to a principle mentioned by someone in print can hardly be

called an " aspersion " .

> >

> > > [sJR::] Depends on how many accurate charts you are using them and how

> > > well you apply the principle.

> >

> > The principle you mentioned (AK being the abhisheka naksahtra lord) does not

require accurate data. As long as Moon remains in the same nakshatra and AK

remains the same, any amount of error in time does not change the result of

applying the principle in a chart.

> >

> > I mentioned five spiritual giants who do not have this and I gave the

birthdata of 6 normal people who have this.

> >

> > > There must be a CONTROL GROUP and then you have to give the results.

> > > That way research is done. What is this sleep talking?

> >

> > I tested with seven reliable charts of spiritual giants as well as normal

people.

> >

> > You may call this " sleep talking " because you look at the background I

provided with suspicion, but the bottomline is that I tested my principle

thoroughly with charts. It is hardly sleep talking or sleep walking. On the

other hand, it is *your* principle (of AK being abhisheka nakshatra lord

indicating a high level soul) that fails in the charts of several spiritual

giants and wrongly applies to several normal people!

> >

> > Whether one is " sleep talking " or " awake talking " , what really matters is

that one should talk sense.

> >

> > > It is time to stop meditating and start working.

> >

> > Meditation and surrender to god are never obstructions to " working " and

research. They can complement it very well. No matter how one arrived at a

principle, one can be thorough and systematic in testing it!

> >

> > > [sJR::] Mapping naká¹£atra into varga?? You are too advanced. I

will leave it here.

> >

> > I did not map " nakshatra into varga " . I took the regular nakshatra chakra

(SarvatoBhadra Chakra), took the abhisheka nakshatra from AK (instead of Moon as

you did) and saw vedhas and aspects on it (instead of taking Vimsottari lord as

you did). Then I correlated with other influences in rasi and varga.

> >

> > > do you realise how you sound?

> >

> > I will sound differently to different people, depending on their karmic

debts with me and depending on the conditioning of their minds..

> >

> > Best regards,

> > Narasimha

> > -------------------------

> > Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam

> > Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana

> > Spirituality:

> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > -------------------------

> >

> > sohamsa <sohamsa%40> , " Sanjay

Rath " <sanjayrath@> wrote:

> >

> > oṠgurave namaḥ

> >

> > Dear Narasiá¹ÂÂha

> >

> > I know that, perhaps, I am the only person in the whole world who believes

that Thakura Ramakrsna is an incarnation of Lord Ã…Å¡iva. There are too

many points to say that He is an incarnation of Viṣṇu

â€ " another 10% may think so, while the majority of people are

convinced that He is an incarnation of Kali. What you are trying to prove is

excellent, and I will examine your points below. My basic point is that when we

define the incarnation of a Viṣṇu avatÄÂÂra, we

need to be very specific of the type of incarnation and the purpose of the

incarnation. The re-establishment of dharma is the only purpose of a

Viṣṇu incarnation and this primary purpose has to be

seen. In the case of Ã…Å¡iva incarnations, it can be for the purpose of

protection at times but mainly for the purpose of pure knowledge. So no matter

what the arguments may conclude, we will finally have to base our views on what

Thakur Ramakrishna finally did.

> >

> > My view at present is that Thakura Ramakrishna came to remove India from its

terrible tamas guṇa to which it had fallen after years of slavery.

He instilled the highest levels of knowledge and renunciation in his

śiṣya, sometimes by merely touching them. This is the

karma of the parameṣṭhi guru â€ "

Śiva and not that of Viṣṇu. The primary

objecitve of independence was achieved by the rise of His teachings through

Swami Vivekananda.

> >

> > His pursuit of perfected knowledge â€ " siddhi was unparelled

in the recent history of India.

> >

> > ...now to examine what you write .. ÃÆ'

> >

> > Best Wishes

> >

> > Sanjay Rath

> >

> > WebPages: <http://srath.com/> http://srath.com

> >

> > Jaimini Scholar: <http://sohamsa.com/> http://sohamsa.com

> >

> > SJC: <http://.org/> http://.org

> >

> > Jyotish Digest, Books: <http://sagittariuspublications.com/>

http://sagittariuspublications.com

> >

> > =========

> > Namaste Sanjay and friends,

> >

> > In your book " Brihat Nakshatra " , you said regarding Ramakrishna Paramhamsa's

chart:

> >

> > " In all my years of study and tens of thousands of charts, I have never come

across anything as close to this chart which represents a perfect incarnation of

Lord Shiva. "

> >

> > Then you went on to talk about the " specific " form of " Shiva " shown by the

chart.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > However, this is inconsistent with what Ramakrishna himself revealed and

religious authorities at his time opined.

> >

> > When Ramakrishna was on death bed with cancer, Narendra (Swami Vivekananda)

once thought to himself, " I will accept his divinity if he declares his divinity

*now*, inspite of this sickness and suffering. " As if he detected the thought,

Ramakrishna said to Narendra, " you still have doubts? He who was Rama and

Krishna before is in this body now. And I do not mean it in your vedantic

sense! "

> >

> > By explicitly saying that he did not mean it in the vedantic sense and

referring to " He who was Rama and Krishna before " , he clearly revealed that he

was an incarnation of Lord Vishnu. Ramakrishna never spoke a lie and valued

truthfulness highly. The words of the realized man in question himself must be

more reliable than questionable and unreliable astrological principles.

> >

> > Moreover, a couple of great religious authorities of the time studied

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa in his younger days when he was being trained by

Bhairavi Brahmani and saw all behavioral signs and physical marks that confirmed

to them that he was an incarnation of Vishnu. They declared him to be an

incarnation of Vishnu.

> >

> > Given these two facts, your conclusion cannot be correct.

> >

> > Vivekananda was inherently a jnaani. He rejected Maayaa and even called

Ramakrishna's visions of various deities as hallucinations and plays of the

mind. He only accepted the formless. Ramakrishna slowly created in him respect

and love for Vishnu Maayaa that governs duality. Well, it takes one with

purified Vishnu tattva to create respect and love for Vishnu Maayaa in one with

raw Shiva tattva. Moreover, it was at the Shiva temple at Amarnath in Himalayas

that Vivekananda finally realized his true nature.

> >

> > [sJR::] What is the meaning of this paragraph? What is *raw Ã…Å¡iva

tattva*? Have you any idea of Ã…Å¡iva tattva? How can you call it raw?

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > As Jupiter and Mercury are the natural guru and sishya and Jupiter is

supposed to show Sadashiva and Mercury is supposed to show Vishnu, one may be

tempted to theorize that Shiva is guru and Vishnu is sishya and attribute Shiva

tattva to guru in a guru-sishya pair. However, that is no logic. Jupiter is not

just Sadashiva, he is Jagannath too. Some of Vishnu's avataras have been the

greatest gurus. Krishna is the ultimate jagadguru for his teaching of Bhagavad

Gita, the greatest spiritual teaching ever.

> >

> > [sJR::] All Viṣṇu avatÄÂÂra are guru in the

sense of teaching the supreme knowledge, but then this is not their primary

function. Their primary function is the establishment of Dharma. Even Rama is a

great teacher â€ " janani janma bhoomi comes from Him.

Śrī Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is the ultimate incarnation of teaching

but His primary objective was to teach sankirtana as a means to emancipation

from Kali yuga. It is the primary objective that decides the nature of the

incarnation.

> >

> > Also, take the example of another illustrious guru-sishya pair from a few

millennia back - Govinda Bhagavatpada and Aadi Shankara. Govinda Bhagavatpada

was a highly learned and elevated master. He too had several great sishyas. His

main sishya Aadi Shankara is considered an incarnation of Lord Shiva and Govinda

Bhagavatpada is considered to be of Vishnu tattwa.

> >

> > If one says that Govinda Bhagavatpada must have had an amsha of Shiva

(Jupiter) because he was the guru and that Aadi Shankara must have had an amsha

of Vishnu (Mercury) because he was the sishya, that would be no logic at all!

Shiva himself said that he would be born as Aadi Shankara.

> >

> > Actually, given the parallels between the lives of Aadi Shankara and

Vivekananda, it is possible that Vivekananda was a re-incarnation of Aadi

Shankara.

> >

> > [sJR::] You are reading too much into the Jupiter-Mercury factors. They are

significators â€ " kÄÂÂraka and they are final indicators in

a horoscope but then there are the lords and houses ...

> >

> > Now you are refuting Thakur Ramakrishna who said that Narain is an

incarnation of the seniormost of the sapta-rishi’s (i.e.

Kashyapa of Marīci clan). You must be consistent in saying something. If

you use the theory that Thakur said something in one argument, then the same

must apply in the other argument as well.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > -------------------------------

> > Abhisheka Nakshatra Principle

> > -------------------------------

> >

> > You said in the same book that abhisheka nakshatra's lord (as per Vimsottari

dasa lordship) being AK is the " first indication of a high level soul having

incarnated " . You use the charts of Ramakrishna and Vivekananda and a

questionable chart of Lord Krishna to justify it.

> >

> > However, there are many exampsles like Sarada Mata, Ramana Maharshi, Swami

Chandrasekhara Saraswati, Srila Prabhupada and Swami Sivananda, which do not

satisfy the criterion. All of them are definitely " high level souls having

incarnated " .

> >

> > [sJR::] It is not good to cast aspersions on the writings of someone without

giving examples in detail.

> >

> > Moreover, it is questionable to have such an important formula based on

" vimsottari lordships " , which is just a star-planet mapping for one specific

dasa scheme among many, as taught by Parasara. Secondly, the space of Vimsottari

lord of abhisheka nakshtra contains nine planets, while the space of chara

karakas contains eight planets. A formula based on equating them is mixing up

two unequal sets. That is illogical. Moreover, this formula fails in many

examples and works in just two (third example is based on questionable data).

Thus, it sounds like a formula constructed based on an observation which was

made based on just 2-3 charts.

> >

> > [sJR::] Vimśottari is the highest of the

udu-daÅ›ÄÂÂ. If only you knew how to use it well then you would

be thinking differently. Ask the 26 Jaimini scholars what they saw in

Vimśottari daśĠthis time. Things so rudimentary

that they were shocked that such things existed, yet they thought they knew

vimÅ›ottari daÅ›ÄÂÂ.

> >

> > The body, soul and mind have 7, 8 and 9 kÄÂÂraka and they have mixed

well in all beings in this creation. So why should we ignore it?

> >

> > Any genuine formula should work in a far higher percentage of applicable

charts.

> >

> > [sJR::] Depends on how many accurate charts you are using them and how well

you apply the principle.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > I tried to find some reasonable and logical criterion based on abhisheka

nakshatra to find initial indications of a potential for liberation, that works

in all the charts I mentioned above. I was unsuccessful. Each formula works in

some and fails in some. The example charts I chose are all unquestionably very

high caliber spiritual people.

> >

> > After my failure, I bowed to Maharshi Parasara after a daily Chandi homam

and prayed to him to kindly show me a criterion based on abhisheka nakshatra

that works in a higher percentage of applicable charts. The formula that was

given to me is this: " The abhisheka nakshatra - the 28th nakshatra - reckoned

from chara aatma kaaraka has aspect or vedha in sarvatobhadra chakra (SBC) from

a planet that is also associated with (a) the 12th house from chara aatma

kaaraka in D-20 chart and (b) 5th or 9th house from lagna in rasi chart. If

chara aatma kaaraka is Rahu, counting of the 28th star in SBC as well as

counting of the 12th house in D-20 is in anti-zodiacal order. "

> >

> > [sJR::] This is getting out of hand Narasiá¹ÂÂha. Last year you

simply meditated and got the answers and now you talked to

ParÄÂÂÅ›ara in meditation and the sage gave you the formula

....do you realise how you sound? It is time to stop meditating and start

working.

> >

> > I can also say that every night I go into yoga nidra and in deep meditation

all these great secrets were revealed to me ... how would this sound? I am great

rishi? I am Maharishi ... there is no end to this infatuation which can destroy

the ego. Let go of this kind of stuff and start doing serious research of you

have to. There must be a clear HYPOTHESIS, there must be a clear basis for such

hypothesis. There must be a CONTROL GROUP and then you have to give the results.

That way research is done. What is this sleep talking?

> >

> > [sJR::] Mapping naká¹£atra into varga?? You are too advanced. I

will leave it here.

> >

> > --- End forwarded message ---