the Word and it's consequences

January 13, 2010

Hare Rama Krishna,

Dear Sanjay,

While both of us deplore the abhorrent missionary activities of many if not most of the churches worldwide, the issue in Malaysia is different.The core of the matter is that Christians want to use the "word" Allah in their normal prayers and publications.(as they have done now for many, may years) The reactions of the malay/muslim community is verging on the hysterical. It has been pointed out, that Malaysian Christians have used this word for many centuries in Malaya (before Malaysia became a state) in Sabah, Sarawak and elsewhere.Local, indigenious people in Sarawak (the Dayaks) are Christians for some centuries now, even though they retained some of their less "elegant" activities, i.e. some of them are still head hunters, in the literal sense of the word (and no doubt good Christians, at least they consider themselves as such.)They all use the word Allah in their worship. Sadly,churches are firebombed and burned, all because of the perceived "monopoly" of one group of people on a word.

But of course we must face the truth however inconvenient it may be.The word itself if not only pre Islamic but also non Arabic. It may come as a shock to some that this is a borrowed word from ancient Hebrew,which was (for good reason it seems)found it's way into Islam.

Those of you who are not familiar with Hebrew language (and the Quabbalah), please allow me to spell this word as it was and is originally: A (aleph)L(lamed)L (lamed) H (heh). The numerical values for each letters are A=1,L=30,L=30,H= 5, or the total 66!

Please notice the presence of the "prime number" 33 doubled.There are many mysteries in this Name, but due to lack of space I will not elaborate on this here.Arabic is a simplified younger cousin (much younger!!!) of Hebrew, and those of you who can read Arabic letters must be well aware of this fact.This language rests on ancient Hebrew. So, this word and it's many variations are actually in the Bible, for at least 3500 years or more.To claim "copyright" on this Name is preposterous!

Not only that.Christians have used this Name with exact the same spelling for nearly 2000 years in the middle east and are still using it without any objections from the majority muslim populations.

Only now, some politicians have discovered in Malaysia this centuries old usage of local Christians, and as elections are looming, trying to "create" an issue out of a non issue.As usual, the masses of ignorant people follow their leaders.

I am aware that for this letter I might be stoned in Saudi Arabia, even though I mean no offence to anyone, either Muslims or Christians.Then again, it may be well to remember, that the ruins of probably the oldest church (yes church) in the world, is in Saudi Arabia, just outside of Mecca….Nestorian Christians built it in the 3rd century. At one time, some 1800 years ago, way before the rise of Islam, there were many churches and Christian communities in The Arabian Peninsula, around Medina and Mecca.No doubt, they used the word Allah in their prayers. (N.B. Saudi Authorities guard the ruins 24/7, for obvious reasons)

Well, the missionaries are innocent- for once….

With deep respect to all,

AJ

sohamsa , "Sanjay Rath" <sanjayrath wrote:>> > > > > om gurave namah> > Dear Pusya> > Who do you think is to blame? Since when is Jesus called Allah? The missionaries have to stop doing such dirty tricks to brain-wash poor people. It is a shame that such a great religion and such a great teacher/son of god â€" Jesus Christ, has to be renamed as Allah by missionaries in Malaysia.> > Best Wishes> > Sanjay Rath> > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762> > Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa.com; Books: www.sagittariuspublications.com; Community: www..org> > > > sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of pushyapushya> 12 January 2010 12:06 AM > sohamsa > Re: PIL against astrology - Bhagwanji Raiyani - Janhit Mach> > > > > > > > Dear Sanjayji,> > Thanks for sharing your astrological comment on this issue. > > Perhaps, the recent "Allah" issue in Malaysia also have some correlation with such planetary alignments:> > http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f <http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> > Best Wishes,> Pushya> > sohamsa <sohamsa%40> , "Sanjay Rath" sanjayrath@ wrote:> >> > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah> > > > Dear Pusya> > > > Namakshara is *bha* in Bhagawanji which is Dhanus rÃ„ÂÃ…â€ºi. RÃ„Âhu has just entered this sign and he is making some headway in cases and controvery for some organisation (Mercury with RÃ„Âhu) for which he will pick up funds from Ads or donations etc. He will also pick up some following and memberships for the organisation of likeminded retro mercury people with RÃ„Âhu, and since there is parivartana between Guru and rahu in the sky, they will say that Guru is RÃ„Âhu = JyotiÃ¡Â¹Â£a is all cheat and lies and all that guru-chandala stuff. Solution lies in visitng Lord Shiva for protection. I am going to Somanath soon, suggest evryone who can should visit Lord Shiva for protection of the shaastra.> > > > Mantra for protection is the Mahaakaala Mahadev mantra> > > > om namah shivaaya mahaakaalaaya hum hum sah> > > > The eclipse is on the 15th Jan...then we start seeing changes. It is a deadly eclipse.> > > > Best Wishes> > > > Sanjay Rath> > > > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762> > > > Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa.com; Books: www.sagittariuspublications.com; Community: www..org> > > > > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40> [sohamsa <sohamsa%40> ] On Behalf Of pushyapushya> > 11 January 2010 07:50 PM > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40> > > PIL against astrology - Bhagwanji Raiyani - Janhit Mach> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear List Members,> > > > > > > > Sharing some links here for those who are interested in this issue:> > > > > > > > "This PIL is not on astrologer's chart charts" (Times of India)> > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/This-PIL-is-not-on-astrologers-charts-/articleshow/5431833.cms> > > > > > > > Janhit Manch's official website:> > > > http://www.janhitmanch.org/ <http://www.janhitmanch.org/pil.htm> > > > > > > > > Found this interesting article which may help us to understand why Mr Bhagwanji Raiyani filed the PIL against astrology: > > > > 'If a shrine is illegal, it has to be demolished'> > > > http://in.rediff.com/news/2003/nov/11inter.htm :> > > > > > > > "But why are you an atheist?> > > > I will tell you about one incident in my life. I am from a small village near Rajkot in Gujarat. I belonged to a poor family and one day a dog bit my younger sister who was three years old. I was nine at that time and no one in my family knew what to do? Some villagers advised us to go and see a doctor who would give 14 injections to cure her. But others advised us that we should visit a temple near our village and take the blessings of a godman there.> > > > I went with my father to that man. He gave us some offerings and said that god had blessed my sister. She would be cured soon. But two months later she died. That was the first time I started getting apprehensive about the powers of god and when I grew up I became an atheist."> > > > Bhagwanji Raiyani on YouTube:> > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/fastjusticeindia> > > > > > > > It will be interesting to analyse the chart of this PIL filing against astrology and predict its outcome (mercury still retrograding now in the natural 9th house with debilitated rahu). > > > > > > > > If we are able to get hold of his birth data, it can also be a good exercise to understand charts of atheist (strong lagna/lagna lord, weak 9th house/lord?). > > > > > > > > Best Wishes,> > > > Pushya> >>

January 13, 2010

Panchashila Thank you for that bit of information. I really appreciate it.panchasila <panchasilasohamsa Sent: Tue, January 12, 2010 6:19:07 PM Re: the Word and it's consequences

Hare Rama Krishna,

Dear Sanjay,

While both of us deplore the abhorrent missionary activities of many if not most of the churches worldwide, the issue in Malaysia is different.The core of the matter is that Christians want to use the "word" Allah in their normal prayers and publications. (as they have done now for many, may years) The reactions of the malay/muslim community is verging on the hysterical. It has been pointed out, that Malaysian Christians have used this word for many centuries in Malaya (before Malaysia became a state) in Sabah, Sarawak and elsewhere.Local, indigenious people in Sarawak (the Dayaks) are Christians for some centuries now, even though they retained some of their less "elegant" activities, i.e. some of them are still head hunters, in the literal sense of the word (and no doubt good Christians, at least they consider themselves as such.)They all use the word Allah in their worship. Sadly,churches are

firebombed and burned, all because of the perceived "monopoly" of one group of people on a word.

But of course we must face the truth however inconvenient it may be.The word itself if not only pre Islamic but also non Arabic. It may come as a shock to some that this is a borrowed word from ancient Hebrew,which was (for good reason it seems)found it's way into Islam.

Those of you who are not familiar with Hebrew language (and the Quabbalah), please allow me to spell this word as it was and is originally: A (aleph)L(lamed)L (lamed) H (heh). The numerical values for each letters are A=1,L=30,L=30, H= 5, or the total 66!

Please notice the presence of the "prime number" 33 doubled.There are many mysteries in this Name, but due to lack of space I will not elaborate on this here.Arabic is a simplified younger cousin (much younger!!!) of Hebrew, and those of you who can read Arabic letters must be well aware of this fact.This language rests on ancient Hebrew. So, this word and it's many variations are actually in the Bible, for at least 3500 years or more.To claim "copyright" on this Name is preposterous! Not only that.Christians have used this Name with exact the same spelling for nearly 2000 years in the middle east and are still using it without any objections from the majority muslim populations.

Only now, some politicians have discovered in Malaysia this centuries old usage of local Christians, and as elections are looming, trying to "create" an issue out of a non issue.As usual, the masses of ignorant people follow their leaders.

I am aware that for this letter I might be stoned in Saudi Arabia, even though I mean no offence to anyone, either Muslims or Christians.Then again, it may be well to remember, that the ruins of probably the oldest church (yes church) in the world, is in Saudi Arabia, just outside of Meccaâ€¦.Nestorian Christians built it in the 3rd century. At one time, some 1800 years ago, way before the rise of Islam, there were many churches and Christian communities in The Arabian Peninsula, around Medina and Mecca.No doubt, they used the word Allah in their prayers. (N.B. Saudi Authorities guard the ruins 24/7, for obvious reasons)

Well, the missionaries are innocent- for onceâ€¦.

With deep respect to all,

AJ

sohamsa@ .com, "Sanjay Rath" <sanjayrath@. ..> wrote:>> > > > > om gurave namah> > Dear Pusya> > Who do you think is to blame? Since when is Jesus called Allah? The missionaries have to stop doing such dirty tricks to brain-wash poor people. It is a shame that such a great religion and such a great teacher/son of god Ã¢â‚¬" Jesus Christ, has to be renamed as Allah by missionaries in Malaysia.> > Best Wishes> > Sanjay Rath> > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762> > Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa. com; Books: www.sagittariuspubl ications. com; Community: www.. org> > > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of

pushyapushya> 12 January 2010 12:06 AM > sohamsa@ .com> Re: PIL against astrology - Bhagwanji Raiyani - Janhit Mach> > > > > > > > Dear Sanjayji,> > Thanks for sharing your astrological comment on this issue. > > Perhaps, the recent "Allah" issue in Malaysia also have some correlation with such planetary alignments:> > http://news. google.com/ news/search? aq=f <http://news. google.com/ news/search? aq=f & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> > Best Wishes,> Pushya> > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa%

40. com> , "Sanjay Rath" sanjayrath@ wrote:> >> > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah> > > > Dear Pusya> > > > Namakshara is *bha* in Bhagawanji which is Dhanus rÃƒâ€žÃ‚ï¿½Ãƒâ€¦Ã¢â‚¬Âºi. RÃƒâ€žÃ‚ï¿½hu has just entered this sign and he is making some headway in cases and controvery for some organisation (Mercury with RÃƒâ€žÃ‚ï¿½hu) for which he will pick up funds from Ads or donations etc. He will also pick up some following and memberships for the organisation of likeminded retro mercury people with RÃƒâ€žÃ‚ï¿½hu, and since there is parivartana between Guru and rahu in the sky, they will say that Guru is RÃƒâ€žÃ‚ï¿½hu = JyotiÃƒÂ¡Ã‚Â¹Ã‚Â£a is all cheat and lies and all that guru-chandala stuff. Solution lies in visitng Lord Shiva for protection. I am going to Somanath soon, suggest evryone who can should visit Lord Shiva for protection of the

shaastra.> > > > Mantra for protection is the Mahaakaala Mahadev mantra> > > > om namah shivaaya mahaakaalaaya hum hum sah> > > > The eclipse is on the 15th Jan...then we start seeing changes. It is a deadly eclipse.> > > > Best Wishes> > > > Sanjay Rath> > > > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762> > > > Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa. com; Books: www.sagittariuspubl ications. com; Community: www.. org> > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% 40. com> [sohamsa <sohamsa% 40. com> ] On Behalf Of pushyapushya> > 11 January 2010 07:50 PM > >

sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% 40. com> > > PIL against astrology - Bhagwanji Raiyani - Janhit Mach> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear List Members,> > > > > > > > Sharing some links here for those who are interested in this issue:> > > > > > > > "This PIL is not on astrologer's chart charts" (Times of India)> > > > http://timesofindia .indiatimes. com/city/ mumbai/This- PIL-is-not- on-astrologers- charts-/articles how/5431833. cms> > > > > > > > Janhit Manch's official website:> > > > http://www.janhitma nch.org/ <http://www.janhitma nch.org/pil. htm> > > > > > > > > Found this interesting article which may help us to understand why Mr Bhagwanji Raiyani filed the PIL against astrology: > > > > 'If a shrine is illegal, it has to be demolished'> > > > http://in.rediff. com/news/ 2003/nov/ 11inter.htm :> > > > > > > > "But why are you an atheist?> > > > I will tell you about one incident in my life. I am from a small village near Rajkot in Gujarat. I belonged to a poor family and one day a dog bit my younger sister who was three years old. I was nine at that time and no one in my family knew what to do? Some villagers

advised us to go and see a doctor who would give 14 injections to cure her. But others advised us that we should visit a temple near our village and take the blessings of a godman there.> > > > I went with my father to that man. He gave us some offerings and said that god had blessed my sister. She would be cured soon. But two months later she died. That was the first time I started getting apprehensive about the powers of god and when I grew up I became an atheist."> > > > Bhagwanji Raiyani on YouTube:> > > > http://www.youtube. com/user/ fastjusticeindia> > > > > > > > It will be interesting to analyse the chart of this PIL filing against astrology and predict its outcome (mercury still retrograding now in the natural 9th house with debilitated rahu). > > > > > >

> > If we are able to get hold of his birth data, it can also be a good exercise to understand charts of atheist (strong lagna/lagna lord, weak 9th house/lord?) . > > > > > > > > Best Wishes,> > > > Pushya> >>

January 13, 2010

The Wikipedia link giving detailed explanation of the origin and use of the word for all those who are interested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AllahThanks and Regards

Vivek

sohamsa From: panchasilaDate: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 00:19:07 +0000 Re: the Word and it's consequences

Hare Rama Krishna,

Dear Sanjay,

While both of us deplore the abhorrent missionary activities of many if not most of the churches worldwide, the issue in Malaysia is different.The core of the matter is that Christians want to use the "word" Allah in their normal prayers and publications.(as they have done now for many, may years) The reactions of the malay/muslim community is verging on the hysterical. It has been pointed out, that Malaysian Christians have used this word for many centuries in Malaya (before Malaysia became a state) in Sabah, Sarawak and elsewhere.Local, indigenious people in Sarawak (the Dayaks) are Christians for some centuries now, even though they retained some of their less "elegant" activities, i.e. some of them are still head hunters, in the literal sense of the word (and no doubt good Christians, at least they consider themselves as such.)They all use the word Allah in their worship. Sadly,churches are firebombed and burned, all because of the perceived "monopoly" of one group of people on a word.

But of course we must face the truth however inconvenient it may be.The word itself if not only pre Islamic but also non Arabic. It may come as a shock to some that this is a borrowed word from ancient Hebrew,which was (for good reason it seems)found it's way into Islam.

Those of you who are not familiar with Hebrew language (and the Quabbalah), please allow me to spell this word as it was and is originally: A (aleph)L(lamed)L (lamed) H (heh). The numerical values for each letters are A=1,L=30,L=30,H= 5, or the total 66!

Please notice the presence of the "prime number" 33 doubled.There are many mysteries in this Name, but due to lack of space I will not elaborate on this here.Arabic is a simplified younger cousin (much younger!!!) of Hebrew, and those of you who can read Arabic letters must be well aware of this fact.This language rests on ancient Hebrew. So, this word and it's many variations are actually in the Bible, for at least 3500 years or more.To claim "copyright" on this Name is preposterous!

Not only that.Christians have used this Name with exact the same spelling for nearly 2000 years in the middle east and are still using it without any objections from the majority muslim populations.

Only now, some politicians have discovered in Malaysia this centuries old usage of local Christians, and as elections are looming, trying to "create" an issue out of a non issue.As usual, the masses of ignorant people follow their leaders.

I am aware that for this letter I might be stoned in Saudi Arabia, even though I mean no offence to anyone, either Muslims or Christians.Then again, it may be well to remember, that the ruins of probably the oldest church (yes church) in the world, is in Saudi Arabia, just outside of Mecca….Nestorian Christians built it in the 3rd century. At one time, some 1800 years ago, way before the rise of Islam, there were many churches and Christian communities in The Arabian Peninsula, around Medina and Mecca.No doubt, they used the word Allah in their prayers. (N.B. Saudi Authorities guard the ruins 24/7, for obvious reasons)

Well, the missionaries are innocent- for once….

With deep respect to all,

AJ

sohamsa , "Sanjay Rath" <sanjayrath wrote:>> > > > > om gurave namah> > Dear Pusya> > Who do you think is to blame? Since when is Jesus called Allah? The missionaries have to stop doing such dirty tricks to brain-wash poor people. It is a shame that such a great religion and such a great teacher/son of god â€" Jesus Christ, has to be renamed as Allah by missionaries in Malaysia.> > Best Wishes> > Sanjay Rath> > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762> > Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa.com; Books: www.sagittariuspublications.com; Community: www..org> > > > sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of pushyapushya> 12 January 2010 12:06 AM > sohamsa > Re: PIL against astrology - Bhagwanji Raiyani - Janhit Mach> > > > > > > > Dear Sanjayji,> > Thanks for sharing your astrological comment on this issue. > > Perhaps, the recent "Allah" issue in Malaysia also have some correlation with such planetary alignments:> > http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f <http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> > Best Wishes,> Pushya> > sohamsa <sohamsa%40> , "Sanjay Rath" sanjayrath@ wrote:> >> > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah> > > > Dear Pusya> > > > Namakshara is *bha* in Bhagawanji which is Dhanus rÃ„ÂÃ…â€ºi. RÃ„Âhu has just entered this sign and he is making some headway in cases and controvery for some organisation (Mercury with RÃ„Âhu) for which he will pick up funds from Ads or donations etc. He will also pick up some following and memberships for the organisation of likeminded retro mercury people with RÃ„Âhu, and since there is parivartana between Guru and rahu in the sky, they will say that Guru is RÃ„Âhu = JyotiÃ¡Â¹Â£a is all cheat and lies and all that guru-chandala stuff. Solution lies in visitng Lord Shiva for protection. I am going to Somanath soon, suggest evryone who can should visit Lord Shiva for protection of the shaastra.> > > > Mantra for protection is the Mahaakaala Mahadev mantra> > > > om namah shivaaya mahaakaalaaya hum hum sah> > > > The eclipse is on the 15th Jan...then we start seeing changes. It is a deadly eclipse.> > > > Best Wishes> > > > Sanjay Rath> > > > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762> > > > Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa.com; Books: www.sagittariuspublications.com; Community: www..org> > > > > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40> [sohamsa <sohamsa%40> ] On Behalf Of pushyapushya> > 11 January 2010 07:50 PM > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40> > > PIL against astrology - Bhagwanji Raiyani - Janhit Mach> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear List Members,> > > > > > > > Sharing some links here for those who are interested in this issue:> > > > > > > > "This PIL is not on astrologer's chart charts" (Times of India)> > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/This-PIL-is-not-on-astrologers-charts-/articleshow/5431833.cms> > > > > > > > Janhit Manch's official website:> > > > http://www.janhitmanch.org/ <http://www.janhitmanch.org/pil.htm> > > > > > > > > Found this interesting article which may help us to understand why Mr Bhagwanji Raiyani filed the PIL against astrology: > > > > 'If a shrine is illegal, it has to be demolished'> > > > http://in.rediff.com/news/2003/nov/11inter.htm :> > > > > > > > "But why are you an atheist?> > > > I will tell you about one incident in my life. I am from a small village near Rajkot in Gujarat. I belonged to a poor family and one day a dog bit my younger sister who was three years old. I was nine at that time and no one in my family knew what to do? Some villagers advised us to go and see a doctor who would give 14 injections to cure her. But others advised us that we should visit a temple near our village and take the blessings of a godman there.> > > > I went with my father to that man. He gave us some offerings and said that god had blessed my sister. She would be cured soon. But two months later she died. That was the first time I started getting apprehensive about the powers of god and when I grew up I became an atheist."> > > > Bhagwanji Raiyani on YouTube:> > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/fastjusticeindia> > > > > > > > It will be interesting to analyse the chart of this PIL filing against astrology and predict its outcome (mercury still retrograding now in the natural 9th house with debilitated rahu). > > > > > > > > If we are able to get hold of his birth data, it can also be a good exercise to understand charts of atheist (strong lagna/lagna lord, weak 9th house/lord?). > > > > > > > > Best Wishes,> > > > Pushya> >>

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January 13, 2010

Dear AJ,

Not only that.Christians have used this Name with exact the same spelling for nearly 2000 years in the middle east and are still using it without any objections from the majority muslim populations.

Very true! Nice mail.

Interestingly, there is one theory that goes this way that Allah - the word - is similar to name of the deity of the Quraysh tribe to which Muhammed belonged. That is why when he entered the Kaaba and destroyed idols - there used to 360 idols in total - he destroyed all but one. I am not sure if this is correct or not, but I had read it somewhere.

-Regards

Rajarshi

Rama Naama Satya Hai..--- On Wed, 13/1/10, panchasila <panchasila wrote:

panchasila <panchasila Re: the Word and it's consequencessohamsa Date: Wednesday, 13 January, 2010, 5:49 AM

Hare Rama Krishna,

Dear Sanjay,

While both of us deplore the abhorrent missionary activities of many if not most of the churches worldwide, the issue in Malaysia is different.The core of the matter is that Christians want to use the "word" Allah in their normal prayers and publications. (as they have done now for many, may years) The reactions of the malay/muslim community is verging on the hysterical. It has been pointed out, that Malaysian Christians have used this word for many centuries in Malaya (before Malaysia became a state) in Sabah, Sarawak and elsewhere.Local, indigenious people in Sarawak (the Dayaks) are Christians for some centuries now, even though they retained some of their less "elegant" activities, i.e. some of them are still head hunters, in the literal sense of the word (and no doubt good Christians, at least they consider themselves as such.)They all use the word Allah in their worship. Sadly,churches are

firebombed and burned, all because of the perceived "monopoly" of one group of people on a word.

But of course we must face the truth however inconvenient it may be.The word itself if not only pre Islamic but also non Arabic. It may come as a shock to some that this is a borrowed word from ancient Hebrew,which was (for good reason it seems)found it's way into Islam.

Those of you who are not familiar with Hebrew language (and the Quabbalah), please allow me to spell this word as it was and is originally: A (aleph)L(lamed)L (lamed) H (heh). The numerical values for each letters are A=1,L=30,L=30, H= 5, or the total 66!

Please notice the presence of the "prime number" 33 doubled.There are many mysteries in this Name, but due to lack of space I will not elaborate on this here.Arabic is a simplified younger cousin (much younger!!!) of Hebrew, and those of you who can read Arabic letters must be well aware of this fact.This language rests on ancient Hebrew. So, this word and it's many variations are actually in the Bible, for at least 3500 years or more.To claim "copyright" on this Name is preposterous!

Not only that.Christians have used this Name with exact the same spelling for nearly 2000 years in the middle east and are still using it without any objections from the majority muslim populations.

Only now, some politicians have discovered in Malaysia this centuries old usage of local Christians, and as elections are looming, trying to "create" an issue out of a non issue.As usual, the masses of ignorant people follow their leaders.

I am aware that for this letter I might be stoned in Saudi Arabia, even though I mean no offence to anyone, either Muslims or Christians.Then again, it may be well to remember, that the ruins of probably the oldest church (yes church) in the world, is in Saudi Arabia, just outside of Meccaï¿½.Nestorian Christians built it in the 3rd century. At one time, some 1800 years ago, way before the rise of Islam, there were many churches and Christian communities in The Arabian Peninsula, around Medina and Mecca.No doubt, they used the word Allah in their prayers. (N.B. Saudi Authorities guard the ruins 24/7, for obvious reasons)

Well, the missionaries are innocent- for onceï¿½.

With deep respect to all,

AJ

sohamsa@ .com, "Sanjay Rath" <sanjayrath@. ..> wrote:>> > > > > om gurave namah> > Dear Pusya> > Who do you think is to blame? Since when is Jesus called Allah? The missionaries have to stop doing such dirty tricks to brain-wash poor people. It is a shame that such a great religion and such a great teacher/son of god ï¿½ï¿½" Jesus Christ, has to be renamed as Allah by missionaries in Malaysia.> > Best Wishes> > Sanjay Rath> > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762> > Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa. com; Books: www.sagittariuspubl ications. com; Community: www.. org> > > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of pushyapushya> 12 January 2010 12:06 AM > To:

sohamsa@ .com> Re: PIL against astrology - Bhagwanji Raiyani - Janhit Mach> > > > > > > > Dear Sanjayji,> > Thanks for sharing your astrological comment on this issue. > > Perhaps, the recent "Allah" issue in Malaysia also have some correlation with such planetary alignments:> > http://news. google.com/ news/search? aq=f <http://news. google.com/ news/search? aq=f & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> > Best Wishes,> Pushya> > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% 40. com> , "Sanjay Rath" sanjayrath@ wrote:> >> > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah> > > > Dear Pusya> > > > Namakshara is

*bha* in Bhagawanji which is Dhanus rÃ„Ã…â€ºi. RÃ„hu has just entered this sign and he is making some headway in cases and controvery for some organisation (Mercury with RÃ„hu) for which he will pick up funds from Ads or donations etc. He will also pick up some following and memberships for the organisation of likeminded retro mercury people with RÃ„hu, and since there is parivartana between Guru and rahu in the sky, they will say that Guru is RÃ„hu = JyotiÃ¡Â¹Â£a is all cheat and lies and all that guru-chandala stuff. Solution lies in visitng Lord Shiva for protection. I am going to Somanath soon, suggest evryone who can should visit Lord Shiva for protection of the shaastra.> > > > Mantra for protection is the Mahaakaala Mahadev mantra> > > > om namah shivaaya mahaakaalaaya hum hum sah> > > > The eclipse is on the 15th Jan...then we start seeing changes. It is a deadly eclipse.> >

> > Best Wishes> > > > Sanjay Rath> > > > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762> > > > Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa. com; Books: www.sagittariuspubl ications. com; Community: www.. org> > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% 40. com> [sohamsa <sohamsa% 40. com> ] On Behalf Of pushyapushya> > 11 January 2010 07:50 PM > > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% 40. com> > > PIL against astrology - Bhagwanji Raiyani - Janhit Mach> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear List Members,> > > > > > > > Sharing some links here for those who

are interested in this issue:> > > > > > > > "This PIL is not on astrologer's chart charts" (Times of India)> > > > http://timesofindia .indiatimes. com/city/ mumbai/This- PIL-is-not- on-astrologers- charts-/articles how/5431833. cms> > > > > > > > Janhit Manch's official website:> > > > http://www.janhitma nch.org/ <http://www.janhitma nch.org/pil. htm> > > > > > > > > Found this interesting article which may help us to understand why Mr Bhagwanji Raiyani filed the PIL against astrology: > > > > 'If a shrine is illegal, it has to be demolished'> > > > http://in.rediff. com/news/ 2003/nov/ 11inter.htm :> > > > > > > > "But why are you an atheist?> > > > I will tell you about one incident in

my life. I am from a small village near Rajkot in Gujarat. I belonged to a poor family and one day a dog bit my younger sister who was three years old. I was nine at that time and no one in my family knew what to do? Some villagers advised us to go and see a doctor who would give 14 injections to cure her. But others advised us that we should visit a temple near our village and take the blessings of a godman there.> > > > I went with my father to that man. He gave us some offerings and said that god had blessed my sister. She would be cured soon. But two months later she died. That was the first time I started getting apprehensive about the powers of god and when I grew up I became an atheist."> > > > Bhagwanji Raiyani on YouTube:> > > > http://www.youtube. com/user/ fastjusticeindia> > > > > > > > It will be interesting to analyse the chart of this PIL

filing against astrology and predict its outcome (mercury still retrograding now in the natural 9th house with debilitated rahu). > > > > > > > > If we are able to get hold of his birth data, it can also be a good exercise to understand charts of atheist (strong lagna/lagna lord, weak 9th house/lord?) . > > > > > > > > Best Wishes,> > > > Pushya> >>

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.

January 14, 2010

om gurave namah

Dear Arpad ji

First â€“ A very happy Makar Sankranti to you and family and everyone else in this forum.

Thank you for your most enlightened post. I agree with your points.

Technically you are right in saying that Allah is a word that the Islamists have taken from Hebrew and therefore they cannot claim any proprietary rights to it, but then please consider this entire episode from what is good to maintain some peace among people who do not have the learning and patience of the academic world to understand all this. Religion has caused some of the worst wars in this world. People die everyday in the name of one god or another with false promises for deliverance. In such a scenario, it is best to accept that the Islamists will be sensitive about the name Allah as much as Vaishnava would be with the name Krishna or Shaivites with Shiva and Christians with Jesus. My statement was made in that light with the hope that people learn to live and let live. I give another example - In India, the Hindi Bible calls God with the name Isa or Isvara (please correct me if I am wrong). Now, a statement like Jesus is the son of Isa or son of Isvara is fine by the Hindu as it seems most true to him, but saying Jesus is isvara or Jesus is Shiva ...now where is that going to lead? Orissa started burning. Of what use is all this propaganda if it is only going to lead to death. If we have to do anything to stop these mindless deaths, then it must be done, for peace is the single highest virtue of any society. Why give weapons in the hands of monkeys who can use it to exploit the simple ones, and if people are simple or not educated, who is to be blamed for it? Who is responsible to ensure that the society gets educated? That is another issue altogether as a lot depends on peoples definition of Government - what do they want governed in their lives.

Hope you appreciate my point in this light - I have been a Gov. servant earlier so will have a slightly different viewpoint than pure academics.

Now what was there before Christ? Nothing?? Are we to assume that a people, so lettered and so cultured had nothing before Christ. Then we say it was Hebrew, but that was the language of the slaves. What was the language and culture of those before them? Everything changes and we cannot take History as the guarantor of anything. It simply records some things but guarantee's nothing. Therefore, the root of something need not be the reason to claim it as a right. Even the father who gives birth to a child cannot claim the right over its life - and cannot take the life away simply because he gave it or caused it to happen.

Arpad ji, old converts have finished their small Jihad and are now in Jihad-e-Akbar, the inner Jihad. The ones you speak of in Malaysia, Pakistan and such places are *new Muslims* and are too busy with their external Jihad. This is a manifestation of their confusion. This is true about all *neo-converts*. They are too busy trying to fight outside battle having forgotten the real battle that rages inside, the battle for spiritual enlightenment.

.....

That name calculation to 66 is Brilliant but 33 is not a *prime number* as I understand it in Mathematics. Perhaps I am missing something here.

There is so much unsaid in your mail. I read it a few times and thought you wanted to say something more. Perhaps it is better that way. Perhaps later.

I blame the Clergy on both sides irrespective of them being Islam or Christian. All they do is make people fight their little battles for free. Oh yes, they have all these soldiers of religion for free. Poor Malaysians. The west has brought nothing but darkness into their lives in the name of religion.

Best Wishes

Sanjay Rath

15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762

Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa.com; Books: www.sagittariuspublications.com; Community: www..org

sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of panchasila13 January 2010 05:49 AM sohamsa Subject: Re: the Word and it's consequences

Hare Rama Krishna,

Dear Sanjay,

While both of us deplore the abhorrent missionary activities of many if not most of the churches worldwide, the issue in Malaysia is different.The core of the matter is that Christians want to use the "word" Allah in their normal prayers and publications.(as they have done now for many, may years) The reactions of the malay/muslim community is verging on the hysterical. It has been pointed out, that Malaysian Christians have used this word for many centuries in Malaya (before Malaysia became a state) in Sabah, Sarawak and elsewhere.Local, indigenious people in Sarawak (the Dayaks) are Christians for some centuries now, even though they retained some of their less "elegant" activities, i.e. some of them are still head hunters, in the literal sense of the word (and no doubt good Christians, at least they consider themselves as such.)They all use the word Allah in their worship. Sadly,churches are firebombed and burned, all because of the perceived "monopoly" of one group of people on a word.

But of course we must face the truth however inconvenient it may be.The word itself if not only pre Islamic but also non Arabic. It may come as a shock to some that this is a borrowed word from ancient Hebrew,which was (for good reason it seems)found it's way into Islam.

Those of you who are not familiar with Hebrew language (and the Quabbalah), please allow me to spell this word as it was and is originally: A (aleph)L(lamed)L (lamed) H (heh). The numerical values for each letters are A=1,L=30,L=30,H= 5, or the total 66!

Please notice the presence of the "prime number" 33 doubled.There are many mysteries in this Name, but due to lack of space I will not elaborate on this here.Arabic is a simplified younger cousin (much younger!!!) of Hebrew, and those of you who can read Arabic letters must be well aware of this fact.This language rests on ancient Hebrew. So, this word and it's many variations are actually in the Bible, for at least 3500 years or more.To claim "copyright" on this Name is preposterous!

Not only that.Christians have used this Name with exact the same spelling for nearly 2000 years in the middle east and are still using it without any objections from the majority muslim populations.

Only now, some politicians have discovered in Malaysia this centuries old usage of local Christians, and as elections are looming, trying to "create" an issue out of a non issue.As usual, the masses of ignorant people follow their leaders.

I am aware that for this letter I might be stoned in Saudi Arabia, even though I mean no offence to anyone, either Muslims or Christians.Then again, it may be well to remember, that the ruins of probably the oldest church (yes church) in the world, is in Saudi Arabia, just outside of Meccaâ€¦.Nestorian Christians built it in the 3rd century. At one time, some 1800 years ago, way before the rise of Islam, there were many churches and Christian communities in The Arabian Peninsula, around Medina and Mecca.No doubt, they used the word Allah in their prayers. (N.B. Saudi Authorities guard the ruins 24/7, for obvious reasons)

Well, the missionaries are innocent- for onceâ€¦.

With deep respect to all,

AJ

sohamsa , "Sanjay Rath" <sanjayrath wrote:>> > > > > om gurave namah> > Dear Pusya> > Who do you think is to blame? Since when is Jesus called Allah? The missionaries have to stop doing such dirty tricks to brain-wash poor people. It is a shame that such a great religion and such a great teacher/son of god Ã¢â‚¬" Jesus Christ, has to be renamed as Allah by missionaries in Malaysia.> > Best Wishes> > Sanjay Rath> > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762> > Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa.com; Books: www.sagittariuspublications.com; Community: www..org> > > > sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of pushyapushya> 12 January 2010 12:06 AM > sohamsa > Re: PIL against astrology - Bhagwanji Raiyani - Janhit Mach> > > > > > > > Dear Sanjayji,> > Thanks for sharing your astrological comment on this issue. > > Perhaps, the recent "Allah" issue in Malaysia also have some correlation with such planetary alignments:> > http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f <http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> > Best Wishes,> Pushya> > sohamsa <sohamsa%40> , "Sanjay Rath" sanjayrath@ wrote:> >> >

..

January 14, 2010

Hare Rama KrsnaThe word was not taken from Hebrew, it was a word for god (el, il, ilah) in the middle east long before Abraham was born.Wikipedia does a decent explication of the root http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity) Sanjay Rath <sjrathTo:

sohamsa Sent: Thu, January 14, 2010 6:23:51 PMRE: Re: the Word and it's consequences

om gurave namah Dear Arpad ji First â€“ A very happy Makar Sankranti to you and family and everyone else in this forum.

Thank you for your most enlightened post.. I agree with your points.

Technically you are right in saying that Allah is a word that the Islamists have taken from Hebrew and therefore they cannot claim any proprietary rights to it, but then please consider this entire episode from what is good to maintain some peace among people who do not have the learning and patience of the academic world to understand all this. Religion has caused some of the worst wars in this world. People die everyday in the name of one god or another with false promises for deliverance. In such a scenario, it is best to accept that the Islamists will be sensitive about the name Allah as much as Vaishnava would be with the name Krishna or Shaivites with Shiva and Christians with Jesus. My statement was made in that light with the hope that people learn to live and let live. I give another example - In India, the Hindi Bible calls God with the name Isa or Isvara (please correct me if I am wrong). Now, a statement like Jesus is the son of Isa or son of Isvara is fine by the Hindu as it seems most true to him, but saying Jesus is isvara or Jesus is Shiva ...now where is that going to lead? Orissa started burning. Of what use is all this propaganda if it is only going to lead to death. If we have to do anything to stop these mindless deaths, then it must be done, for peace is the single highest virtue of any society. Why give weapons in the hands of monkeys who can use it to exploit the simple ones, and if people are simple or not educated, who is to be blamed for it? Who is responsible to ensure that the society gets educated? That is another issue altogether as a lot depends on peoples definition of Government - what do they want governed in their lives.

Hope you appreciate my point in this light - I have been a Gov. servant earlier so will have a slightly different viewpoint than pure academics.

Now what was there before Christ? Nothing?? Are we to assume that a people, so lettered and so cultured had nothing before Christ. Then we say it was Hebrew, but that was the language of the slaves. What was the language and culture of those before them? Everything changes and we cannot take History as the guarantor of anything. It simply records some things but guarantee's nothing. Therefore, the root of something need not be the reason to claim it as a right. Even the father who gives birth to a child cannot claim the right over its life - and cannot take the life away simply because he gave it or caused it to happen.

Arpad ji, old converts have finished their small Jihad and are now in Jihad-e-Akbar, the inner Jihad. The ones you speak of in Malaysia, Pakistan and such places are *new Muslims* and are too busy with their external Jihad. This is a manifestation of their confusion. This is true about all *neo-converts* . They are too busy trying to fight outside battle having forgotten the real battle that rages inside, the battle for spiritual enlightenment.

.....

That name calculation to 66 is Brilliant but 33 is not a *prime number* as I understand it in Mathematics. Perhaps I am missing something here.

There is so much unsaid in your mail. I read it a few times and thought you wanted to say something more. Perhaps it is better that way. Perhaps later.

I blame the Clergy on both sides irrespective of them being Islam or Christian. All they do is make people fight their little battles for free. Oh yes, they have all these soldiers of religion for free. Poor Malaysians. The west has brought nothing but darkness into their lives in the name of religion.

Best Wishes Sanjay Rath 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762 Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa. com; Books: www.sagittariuspubl ications. com; Community: www.. org

sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of panchasila13 January 2010 05:49 AM sohamsa@ .com Re: the Word and it's consequences Hare Rama Krishna, Dear Sanjay, While both of us deplore the abhorrent missionary activities of many if not most of the churches worldwide, the issue in Malaysia is different.The core of the matter is that Christians want to use the "word" Allah in their normal prayers and publications. (as they have done now for many, may years) The reactions of the malay/muslim community is verging on the hysterical. It has been pointed out, that Malaysian Christians have used this word for many centuries in Malaya (before Malaysia became a state) in Sabah, Sarawak and elsewhere.Local, indigenious people in Sarawak (the Dayaks) are Christians for some centuries now, even though they retained some of their less "elegant" activities, i.e. some of them are still head hunters, in the literal sense of the word (and no doubt good Christians, at least they consider themselves as such.)They all use the word Allah in their worship. Sadly,churches are firebombed and burned, all because of the perceived "monopoly" of one group of people on a word. But of course we must face the truth however inconvenient it may be.The word itself if not only pre Islamic but also non Arabic. It may come as a shock to some that this is a borrowed word from ancient Hebrew,which was (for good reason it seems)found it's way into Islam. Those of you who are not familiar with Hebrew language (and the Quabbalah), please allow me to spell this word as it was and is originally: A (aleph)L(lamed)L (lamed) H (heh).. The numerical values for each letters are A=1,L=30,L=30, H= 5, or the total 66! Please notice the presence of the "prime number" 33 doubled.There are many mysteries in this Name, but due to lack of space I will not elaborate on this here.Arabic is a simplified younger cousin (much younger!!!) of Hebrew, and those of you who can read Arabic letters must be well aware of this fact.This language rests on ancient Hebrew. So, this word and it's many variations are actually in the Bible, for at least 3500 years or more.To claim "copyright" on this Name is preposterous! Not only that.Christians have used this Name with exact the same spelling for nearly 2000 years in the middle east and are still using it without any objections from the majority muslim populations. Only now, some politicians have discovered in Malaysia this centuries old usage of local Christians, and as elections are looming, trying to "create" an issue out of a non issue.As usual, the masses of ignorant people follow their leaders. I am aware that for this letter I might be stoned in Saudi Arabia, even though I mean no offence to anyone, either Muslims or Christians.Then again, it may be well to remember, that the ruins of probably the oldest church (yes church) in the world, is in Saudi Arabia, just outside of Meccaâ€¦.Nestorian Christians built it in the 3rd century. At one time, some 1800 years ago, way before the rise of Islam, there were many churches and Christian communities in The Arabian Peninsula, around Medina and Mecca.No doubt, they used the word Allah in their prayers. (N.B. Saudi Authorities guard the ruins 24/7, for obvious reasons) Well, the missionaries are innocent- for onceâ€¦. With deep respect to all, AJ sohamsa@ .com, "Sanjay Rath" <sanjayrath@. ..> wrote:>> > > > > om gurave namah> > Dear Pusya> > Who do you think is to blame? Since when is Jesus called Allah? The missionaries have to stop doing such dirty tricks to brain-wash poor people. It is a shame that such a great religion and such a great teacher/son of god Ã¢â‚¬" Jesus Christ, has to be renamed as Allah by missionaries in Malaysia.> > Best Wishes> > Sanjay Rath> > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762> > Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa. com; Books: www.sagittariuspubl ications. com; Community: www.. org> > > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of pushyapushya> 12 January 2010 12:06 AM > sohamsa@ .com> Re: PIL against astrology - Bhagwanji Raiyani - Janhit Mach> > > > > > > > Dear Sanjayji,> > Thanks for sharing your astrological comment on this issue. > > Perhaps, the recent "Allah" issue in Malaysia also have some correlation with such planetary alignments:> > http://news. google.com/ news/search? aq=f <http://news. google.com/ news/search? aq=f & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> > Best Wishes,> Pushya> > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% 40. com> , "Sanjay Rath" sanjayrath@ wrote:> >> >

..

January 14, 2010

Thanks for the link. I found some interesting names out there.

Yahwah is said to be originally a storm god ....sounds like Yahmah > Yama

The article states El is derived from Sumerian Enlil, God of Wind ...sounds like 'a-nil' > anila, sanskrit wind god.

Also I read YiÅ›rÄâ€™Ä“l 'Israel', meaning 'Ä“l strives' or 'struggled with Ã©l >> Who did Ä“l struggle with? What is this struggle all about?

If you can give some links explaining these --grateful.

Freedomji

Thursday, January 14, 2010 7:13 PM

sohamsa

Re: Re: the Word and it's consequences

Hare Rama KrsnaThe word was not taken from Hebrew, it was a word for god (el, il, ilah) in the middle east long before Abraham was born.Wikipedia does a decent explication of the root http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity)

Sanjay Rath <sjrathsohamsa Sent: Thu, January 14, 2010 6:23:51 PMRE: Re: the Word and it's consequences

om gurave namah

Dear Arpad ji

First â€“ A very happy Makar Sankranti to you and family and everyone else in this forum.

Thank you for your most enlightened post.. I agree with your points.

Technically you are right in saying that Allah is a word that the Islamists have taken from Hebrew and therefore they cannot claim any proprietary rights to it, but then please consider this entire episode from what is good to maintain some peace among people who do not have the learning and patience of the academic world to understand all this. Religion has caused some of the worst wars in this world. People die everyday in the name of one god or another with false promises for deliverance. In such a scenario, it is best to accept that the Islamists will be sensitive about the name Allah as much as Vaishnava would be with the name Krishna or Shaivites with Shiva and Christians with Jesus. My statement was made in that light with the hope that people learn to live and let live. I give another example - In India, the Hindi Bible calls God with the name Isa or Isvara (please correct me if I am wrong). Now, a statement like Jesus is the son of Isa or son of Isvara is fine by the Hindu as it seems most true to him, but saying Jesus is isvara or Jesus is Shiva ...now where is that going to lead? Orissa started burning. Of what use is all this propaganda if it is only going to lead to death. If we have to do anything to stop these mindless deaths, then it must be done, for peace is the single highest virtue of any society. Why give weapons in the hands of monkeys who can use it to exploit the simple ones, and if people are simple or not educated, who is to be blamed for it? Who is responsible to ensure that the society gets educated? That is another issue altogether as a lot depends on peoples definition of Government - what do they want governed in their lives.

Hope you appreciate my point in this light - I have been a Gov. servant earlier so will have a slightly different viewpoint than pure academics.

Now what was there before Christ? Nothing?? Are we to assume that a people, so lettered and so cultured had nothing before Christ. Then we say it was Hebrew, but that was the language of the slaves. What was the language and culture of those before them? Everything changes and we cannot take History as the guarantor of anything. It simply records some things but guarantee's nothing. Therefore, the root of something need not be the reason to claim it as a right. Even the father who gives birth to a child cannot claim the right over its life - and cannot take the life away simply because he gave it or caused it to happen.

Arpad ji, old converts have finished their small Jihad and are now in Jihad-e-Akbar, the inner Jihad. The ones you speak of in Malaysia, Pakistan and such places are *new Muslims* and are too busy with their external Jihad. This is a manifestation of their confusion. This is true about all *neo-converts* . They are too busy trying to fight outside battle having forgotten the real battle that rages inside, the battle for spiritual enlightenment.

.....

That name calculation to 66 is Brilliant but 33 is not a *prime number* as I understand it in Mathematics. Perhaps I am missing something here.

There is so much unsaid in your mail. I read it a few times and thought you wanted to say something more. Perhaps it is better that way. Perhaps later.

I blame the Clergy on both sides irrespective of them being Islam or Christian. All they do is make people fight their little battles for free. Oh yes, they have all these soldiers of religion for free. Poor Malaysians. The west has brought nothing but darkness into their lives in the name of religion.

Best Wishes

Sanjay Rath

15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762

Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa. com; Books: www.sagittariuspubl ications. com; Community: www.. org

sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of panchasila13 January 2010 05:49 AM sohamsa@ .com Re: the Word and it's consequences

Hare Rama Krishna, Dear Sanjay,

While both of us deplore the abhorrent missionary activities of many if not most of the churches worldwide, the issue in Malaysia is different.The core of the matter is that Christians want to use the "word" Allah in their normal prayers and publications. (as they have done now for many, may years) The reactions of the malay/muslim community is verging on the hysterical. It has been pointed out, that Malaysian Christians have used this word for many centuries in Malaya (before Malaysia became a state) in Sabah, Sarawak and elsewhere.Local, indigenious people in Sarawak (the Dayaks) are Christians for some centuries now, even though they retained some of their less "elegant" activities, i.e. some of them are still head hunters, in the literal sense of the word (and no doubt good Christians, at least they consider themselves as such.)They all use the word Allah in their worship. Sadly,churches are firebombed and burned, all because of the perceived "monopoly" of one group of people on a word.

But of course we must face the truth however inconvenient it may be.The word itself if not only pre Islamic but also non Arabic. It may come as a shock to some that this is a borrowed word from ancient Hebrew,which was (for good reason it seems)found it's way into Islam.

Those of you who are not familiar with Hebrew language (and the Quabbalah), please allow me to spell this word as it was and is originally: A (aleph)L(lamed)L (lamed) H (heh).. The numerical values for each letters are A=1,L=30,L=30, H= 5, or the total 66!

Please notice the presence of the "prime number" 33 doubled.There are many mysteries in this Name, but due to lack of space I will not elaborate on this here.Arabic is a simplified younger cousin (much younger!!!) of Hebrew, and those of you who can read Arabic letters must be well aware of this fact.This language rests on ancient Hebrew. So, this word and it's many variations are actually in the Bible, for at least 3500 years or more.To claim "copyright" on this Name is preposterous!

Not only that.Christians have used this Name with exact the same spelling for nearly 2000 years in the middle east and are still using it without any objections from the majority muslim populations.

Only now, some politicians have discovered in Malaysia this centuries old usage of local Christians, and as elections are looming, trying to "create" an issue out of a non issue.As usual, the masses of ignorant people follow their leaders.

I am aware that for this letter I might be stoned in Saudi Arabia, even though I mean no offence to anyone, either Muslims or Christians.Then again, it may be well to remember, that the ruins of probably the oldest church (yes church) in the world, is in Saudi Arabia, just outside of Meccaâ€¦.Nestorian Christians built it in the 3rd century. At one time, some 1800 years ago, way before the rise of Islam, there were many churches and Christian communities in The Arabian Peninsula, around Medina and Mecca.No doubt, they used the word Allah in their prayers. (N.B. Saudi Authorities guard the ruins 24/7, for obvious reasons)

Well, the missionaries are innocent- for onceâ€¦.

With deep respect to all,

AJ

sohamsa@ .com, "Sanjay Rath" <sanjayrath@. ..> wrote:>> > > > > om gurave namah> > Dear Pusya> > Who do you think is to blame? Since when is Jesus called Allah? The missionaries have to stop doing such dirty tricks to brain-wash poor people. It is a shame that such a great religion and such a great teacher/son of god Ã¢â‚¬" Jesus Christ, has to be renamed as Allah by missionaries in Malaysia.> > Best Wishes> > Sanjay Rath> > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762> > Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa. com; Books: www.sagittariuspubl ications. com; Community: www.. org> > > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of pushyapushya> 12 January 2010 12:06 AM > sohamsa@ .com> Re: PIL against astrology - Bhagwanji Raiyani - Janhit Mach> > > > > > > > Dear Sanjayji,> > Thanks for sharing your astrological comment on this issue. > > Perhaps, the recent "Allah" issue in Malaysia also have some correlation with such planetary alignments:> > http://news. google.com/ news/search? aq=f <http://news. google.com/ news/search? aq=f & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> > Best Wishes,> Pushya> > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% 40. com> , "Sanjay Rath" sanjayrath@ wrote:> >> >

..

January 14, 2010

Hare Rama KrsnaI think it is more taken like Jaya Jagannatha, that he is the victorious lord, but more specific it can't mean god to struggle with... because when it is combined like that with a name it changes subject-object meaning: like mareshvara would be lord of death, not the god who dies. El is commonly combined to almost every word, the same as the sanskrit word Isha (and I postulate some relation in the root there). There is another meaning also which means the god who straightens (or makes upright-how the victorious stand), and it was the name given to Jacob (which has a root similar to sanskrit root ank meaning bent [english ankle]), so it has a spiritual transformation of the god who makes the bent straight. But

most important (and enough to get me burned), the word elohim used in the old testament is in plural (not singular) meaning gods, not god. And there is constant reference to the "Hosts of Heaven''. Abraham was born in Ur (Sumeria) which was a place of astrological worship- which became later day Babylonia. If you look at the biblical 7 days of creation they relate to the 7 grahas lording the week by attributes, nothing to actually do with a linear creation (as seen by let there be light on the first day, and the Sun/Moon/stars being made on Wednesday for the calendar maker Mercury-babylonian signification of Mercury). Later Hebrew astrology called the planets Angels (not gods). Aum Namah ShivayaFreedomSanjay Rath <sjrathsohamsa Sent: Thu, January 14, 2010 9:34:52 PMRe: Re: the Word and it's consequences

Thanks for the link. I found some interesting names out there.

Yahwah is said to be originally a storm god ....sounds like Yahmah > Yama

The article states El is derived from Sumerian Enlil, God of Wind ...sounds like 'a-nil' > anila, sanskrit wind god.

Also I read YiÅ›rÄâ€™Ä“l 'Israel', meaning 'Ä“l strives' or 'struggled with Ã©l >> Who did Ä“l struggle with? What is this struggle all about?

If you can give some links explaining these --grateful.

Freedomji

Thursday, January 14, 2010 7:13 PM

sohamsa@ .com

Re: Re: the Word and it's consequences

Hare Rama KrsnaThe word was not taken from Hebrew, it was a word for god (el, il, ilah) in the middle east long before Abraham was born.Wikipedia does a decent explication of the root http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ El_(deity)

Sanjay Rath <sjrath (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>sohamsa@ .comThu, January 14, 2010 6:23:51 PMRE: Re: the Word and it's consequences

om gurave namah

Dear Arpad ji

First â€“ A very happy Makar Sankranti to you and family and everyone else in this forum.

Thank you for your most enlightened post.. I agree with your points.

Technically you are right in saying that Allah is a word that the Islamists have taken from Hebrew and therefore they cannot claim any proprietary rights to it, but then please consider this entire episode from what is good to maintain some peace among people who do not have the learning and patience of the academic world to understand all this. Religion has caused some of the worst wars in this world. People die everyday in the name of one god or another with false promises for deliverance. In such a scenario, it is best to accept that the Islamists will be sensitive about the name Allah as much as Vaishnava would be with the name Krishna or Shaivites with Shiva and Christians with Jesus. My statement was made in that light with the hope that people learn to live and let live. I give another example - In India, the Hindi Bible calls God with the name Isa or Isvara (please correct me if I am wrong). Now, a statement like Jesus is the son of Isa or son of Isvara is fine by the Hindu as it seems most true to him, but saying Jesus is isvara or Jesus is Shiva ...now where is that going to lead? Orissa started burning. Of what use is all this propaganda if it is only going to lead to death. If we have to do anything to stop these mindless deaths, then it must be done, for peace is the single highest virtue of any society. Why give weapons in the hands of monkeys who can use it to exploit the simple ones, and if people are simple or not educated, who is to be blamed for it? Who is responsible to ensure that the society gets educated? That is another issue altogether as a lot depends on peoples definition of Government - what do they want governed in their lives.

Hope you appreciate my point in this light - I have been a Gov. servant earlier so will have a slightly different viewpoint than pure academics.

Now what was there before Christ? Nothing?? Are we to assume that a people, so lettered and so cultured had nothing before Christ. Then we say it was Hebrew, but that was the language of the slaves. What was the language and culture of those before them? Everything changes and we cannot take History as the guarantor of anything. It simply records some things but guarantee's nothing. Therefore, the root of something need not be the reason to claim it as a right. Even the father who gives birth to a child cannot claim the right over its life - and cannot take the life away simply because he gave it or caused it to happen.

Arpad ji, old converts have finished their small Jihad and are now in Jihad-e-Akbar, the inner Jihad. The ones you speak of in Malaysia, Pakistan and such places are *new Muslims* and are too busy with their external Jihad. This is a manifestation of their confusion. This is true about all *neo-converts* . They are too busy trying to fight outside battle having forgotten the real battle that rages inside, the battle for spiritual enlightenment.

.....

That name calculation to 66 is Brilliant but 33 is not a *prime number* as I understand it in Mathematics. Perhaps I am missing something here.

There is so much unsaid in your mail. I read it a few times and thought you wanted to say something more. Perhaps it is better that way. Perhaps later.

I blame the Clergy on both sides irrespective of them being Islam or Christian. All they do is make people fight their little battles for free. Oh yes, they have all these soldiers of religion for free. Poor Malaysians. The west has brought nothing but darkness into their lives in the name of religion.

Best Wishes

Sanjay Rath

15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762

Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa. com; Books: www.sagittariuspubl ications. com; Community: www.. org

sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of panchasila13 January 2010 05:49 AM sohamsa@ .com Re: the Word and it's consequences

Hare Rama Krishna, Dear Sanjay,

While both of us deplore the abhorrent missionary activities of many if not most of the churches worldwide, the issue in Malaysia is different.The core of the matter is that Christians want to use the "word" Allah in their normal prayers and publications. (as they have done now for many, may years) The reactions of the malay/muslim community is verging on the hysterical. It has been pointed out, that Malaysian Christians have used this word for many centuries in Malaya (before Malaysia became a state) in Sabah, Sarawak and elsewhere.Local, indigenious people in Sarawak (the Dayaks) are Christians for some centuries now, even though they retained some of their less "elegant" activities, i.e. some of them are still head hunters, in the literal sense of the word (and no doubt good Christians, at least they consider themselves as such.)They all use the word Allah in their worship. Sadly,churches are firebombed and burned, all because of the perceived "monopoly" of one group of people on a word.

But of course we must face the truth however inconvenient it may be.The word itself if not only pre Islamic but also non Arabic. It may come as a shock to some that this is a borrowed word from ancient Hebrew,which was (for good reason it seems)found it's way into Islam.

Those of you who are not familiar with Hebrew language (and the Quabbalah), please allow me to spell this word as it was and is originally: A (aleph)L(lamed)L (lamed) H (heh).. The numerical values for each letters are A=1,L=30,L=30, H= 5, or the total 66!

Please notice the presence of the "prime number" 33 doubled.There are many mysteries in this Name, but due to lack of space I will not elaborate on this here.Arabic is a simplified younger cousin (much younger!!!) of Hebrew, and those of you who can read Arabic letters must be well aware of this fact.This language rests on ancient Hebrew. So, this word and it's many variations are actually in the Bible, for at least 3500 years or more.To claim "copyright" on this Name is preposterous!

Not only that.Christians have used this Name with exact the same spelling for nearly 2000 years in the middle east and are still using it without any objections from the majority muslim populations.

Only now, some politicians have discovered in Malaysia this centuries old usage of local Christians, and as elections are looming, trying to "create" an issue out of a non issue.As usual, the masses of ignorant people follow their leaders.

I am aware that for this letter I might be stoned in Saudi Arabia, even though I mean no offence to anyone, either Muslims or Christians.Then again, it may be well to remember, that the ruins of probably the oldest church (yes church) in the world, is in Saudi Arabia, just outside of Meccaâ€¦.Nestorian Christians built it in the 3rd century. At one time, some 1800 years ago, way before the rise of Islam, there were many churches and Christian communities in The Arabian Peninsula, around Medina and Mecca.No doubt, they used the word Allah in their prayers. (N.B. Saudi Authorities guard the ruins 24/7, for obvious reasons)

Well, the missionaries are innocent- for onceâ€¦.

With deep respect to all,

AJ

sohamsa@ .com, "Sanjay Rath" <sanjayrath@. ..> wrote:>> > > > > om gurave namah> > Dear Pusya> > Who do you think is to blame? Since when is Jesus called Allah? The missionaries have to stop doing such dirty tricks to brain-wash poor people.. It is a shame that such a great religion and such a great teacher/son of god Ã¢â‚¬" Jesus Christ, has to be renamed as Allah by missionaries in Malaysia.> > Best Wishes> > Sanjay Rath> > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762> > Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa. com; Books: www.sagittariuspubl ications. com; Community: www.. org> > > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of pushyapushya> 12 January 2010 12:06 AM > sohamsa@ .com> Re: PIL against astrology - Bhagwanji Raiyani - Janhit Mach> > > > > > > > Dear Sanjayji,> > Thanks for sharing your astrological comment on this issue. > > Perhaps, the recent "Allah" issue in Malaysia also have some correlation with such planetary alignments:> > http://news. google.com/ news/search? aq=f <http://news. google.com/ news/search? aq=f & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> > Best Wishes,> Pushya> > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% 40. com> , "Sanjay Rath" sanjayrath@ wrote:> >> >

..

January 14, 2010

Dear Sanjayji,From the following links, seems like this El is God."The name Israel derives from the Hebrew yisra'el, he that fights with God, which in turn derives from sara, he fights, and El, God."http://www.mootgame.com/mootlistOut/ml193.htmlhttp://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Israelhttp://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Israel.htmlBest Wishes,Pushya.sohamsa , "Sanjay Rath" <sjrath wrote:>> Thanks for the link. I found some interesting names out there.> Yahwah is said to be originally a storm god ....sounds like Yahmah > Yama> The article states El is derived from Sumerian Enlil, God of Wind ...sounds like 'a-nil' > anila, sanskrit wind god.> Also I read YiÅ›rÄâ€™Ä"l 'Israel', meaning 'Ä"l strives' or 'struggled with Ã©l >> Who did Ä"l struggle with? What is this struggle all about?> If you can give some links explaining these --grateful.>

January 15, 2010

Hare Rama Krishna.I think the tack of tracing Hebrew words back to Sanskrit and Vedic is the best angle. From that standpoint, El might relate to Anil.Not that I'm an expert in Judaism but the term Yahweh is a British scholar corruption of the four-letter acronym, Yud Heh Wav Heh . Traditionally, this acronym is used to refer to the unnameable name of God. When not used in prayer, it is pronounced Ha Shem, which means "The Name". Kabbalah, which is the Hebrew Vedanta, examines all aspects of the Bible, especially names of God, from many different angles but especially

breaking them down into their roots. Often the different combinations of letters of the different names of God were used as meditation devices."Israel" is the name given to Jacob, grandson of Abraham, the father of Judaism. God appeared to Jacob during the night (symbolically, during Jacob's ignorance of reality) and wrestled with him till day (symbolically, the dawn of wisdom). God dislocated Jacob's thigh (perhaps this relates to Dhanu, the Rashi of hip, dharma, Guru) but Jacob held fast to God (pretty straight forward meaning) and prevailed. He did not know who he was wrestling but when God asked to be released "for day is coming: (wisdom is dawning)", he refused to release God until he was given a blessing. Symbolism seems fairly straightforward: God in personal form tests us and we have to dive into Atma, to Self, in order to pass

the test.A common way people who know Sanskrit look at the name Abraham is "Ab-Ram", out of Ram, or "A-Brahm, out of Brahm". similar derivations should be possible for Jacob: Ya-Kov. "Ya" in Sanskrit I've seen translated as "One who", "Kav" might relate to "Kavi", poetic rishi.The traditional texts of Kabbalah are: Sefer Yetzirah, the Book of Creation; Sefer Bahir ( I not sure what "Bahir means", the Zohar and Tanya. These texts tend to bring out the symbolic value of the Jewish Bible, the way in which the different stories relate to the evolution of the human soul from duality to non-duality, from waking state to

Samadhi, Nitya Samadhi and to Brahmi Chetana.Again, I'm not an expert on these texts or on Judaism but that seems to me to be the most useful way to look at them and any Hebrew words.Sefer Yetzirah, particularly, can be interpreted as an astrological treatise and it has very specific sections on Astrology: for example, it has sections describing how different units of time; fire, air, water, earth; the different aspects of the human physiology and the 12 constellations were created from the 22 sounds of the Hebrew alphabet which rule over all that is less than God.Hope this helps. If you like to explore more, Daniel

Matt is a scholar of Kabbalah whose works I've read a bit of. He is not only a reputed scholar but also his writings and translations breathe awareness of direct experience of samadhi and higher states of awareness.chabad.org is an organization founded by the Lubavitcher Rabbi, M Schneerson, about whom thousands of stories are told of his Jyotish Mati Pragya, his divine perception, ability to see the right course of action miles and years away. I don't know how much of his attunement is still in the custodians of his organization but everybody is likely to find someone who is at a useful level. Sanjay-ji, there may very well be someone in the organization that combines knowledge of Kabbalah with knowledge of Jewish Astrology and so might be useful.All

these thoughts are a bit away from the original discussion about Islam and the origin of the word "Allah" but "Bismallahir Rahmanir Rahim" the central point is to enhance our knowledge of Jyotish as a tool to bless ourselves and the world, all of Nature, to return all of Prakriti to its oneness with Purusha.Jai Shri Ram,SteveSanjay Rath

<sjrathsohamsa Sent: Thu, January 14, 2010 10:04:52 AMRe: Re: the Word and it's consequences

Thanks for the link. I found some interesting names out there.

Yahwah is said to be originally a storm god ....sounds like Yahmah > Yama

The article states El is derived from Sumerian Enlil, God of Wind ...sounds like 'a-nil' > anila, sanskrit wind god.

Also I read YiÅ›rÄâ€™Ä“l 'Israel', meaning 'Ä“l strives' or 'struggled with Ã©l >> Who did Ä“l struggle with? What is this struggle all about?

If you can give some links explaining these --grateful.

Freedomji

Thursday, January 14, 2010 7:13 PM

sohamsa@ .com

Re: Re: the Word and it's consequences

Hare Rama KrsnaThe word was not taken from Hebrew, it was a word for god (el, il, ilah) in the middle east long before Abraham was born.Wikipedia does a decent explication of the root http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ El_(deity)

Sanjay Rath <sjrath (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>sohamsa@ .comThu, January 14, 2010 6:23:51 PMRE: Re: the Word and it's consequences

om gurave namah

Dear Arpad ji

First â€“ A very happy Makar Sankranti to you and family and everyone else in this forum.

Thank you for your most enlightened post.. I agree with your points.

Technically you are right in saying that Allah is a word that the Islamists have taken from Hebrew and therefore they cannot claim any proprietary rights to it, but then please consider this entire episode from what is good to maintain some peace among people who do not have the learning and patience of the academic world to understand all this. Religion has caused some of the worst wars in this world. People die everyday in the name of one god or another with false promises for deliverance. In such a scenario, it is best to accept that the Islamists will be sensitive about the name Allah as much as Vaishnava would be with the name Krishna or Shaivites with Shiva and Christians with Jesus. My statement was made in that light with the hope that people learn to live and let live. I give another example - In India, the Hindi Bible calls God with the name Isa or Isvara (please correct me if I am wrong). Now, a statement like Jesus is the son of Isa or son of Isvara is fine by the Hindu as it seems most true to him, but saying Jesus is isvara or Jesus is Shiva ...now where is that going to lead? Orissa started burning. Of what use is all this propaganda if it is only going to lead to death. If we have to do anything to stop these mindless deaths, then it must be done, for peace is the single highest virtue of any society. Why give weapons in the hands of monkeys who can use it to exploit the simple ones, and if people are simple or not educated, who is to be blamed for it? Who is responsible to ensure that the society gets educated? That is another issue altogether as a lot depends on peoples definition of Government - what do they want governed in their lives.

Hope you appreciate my point in this light - I have been a Gov. servant earlier so will have a slightly different viewpoint than pure academics.

Now what was there before Christ? Nothing?? Are we to assume that a people, so lettered and so cultured had nothing before Christ. Then we say it was Hebrew, but that was the language of the slaves. What was the language and culture of those before them? Everything changes and we cannot take History as the guarantor of anything. It simply records some things but guarantee's nothing. Therefore, the root of something need not be the reason to claim it as a right. Even the father who gives birth to a child cannot claim the right over its life - and cannot take the life away simply because he gave it or caused it to happen.

Arpad ji, old converts have finished their small Jihad and are now in Jihad-e-Akbar, the inner Jihad. The ones you speak of in Malaysia, Pakistan and such places are *new Muslims* and are too busy with their external Jihad. This is a manifestation of their confusion. This is true about all *neo-converts* . They are too busy trying to fight outside battle having forgotten the real battle that rages inside, the battle for spiritual enlightenment.

.....

That name calculation to 66 is Brilliant but 33 is not a *prime number* as I understand it in Mathematics. Perhaps I am missing something here.

There is so much unsaid in your mail. I read it a few times and thought you wanted to say something more. Perhaps it is better that way. Perhaps later.

I blame the Clergy on both sides irrespective of them being Islam or Christian. All they do is make people fight their little battles for free. Oh yes, they have all these soldiers of religion for free. Poor Malaysians. The west has brought nothing but darkness into their lives in the name of religion.

Best Wishes

Sanjay Rath

15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762

Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa. com; Books: www.sagittariuspubl ications. com; Community: www.. org

sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of panchasila13 January 2010 05:49 AM sohamsa@ .com Re: the Word and it's consequences

Hare Rama Krishna, Dear Sanjay,

While both of us deplore the abhorrent missionary activities of many if not most of the churches worldwide, the issue in Malaysia is different.The core of the matter is that Christians want to use the "word" Allah in their normal prayers and publications. (as they have done now for many, may years) The reactions of the malay/muslim community is verging on the hysterical. It has been pointed out, that Malaysian Christians have used this word for many centuries in Malaya (before Malaysia became a state) in Sabah, Sarawak and elsewhere.Local, indigenious people in Sarawak (the Dayaks) are Christians for some centuries now, even though they retained some of their less "elegant" activities, i.e. some of them are still head hunters, in the literal sense of the word (and no doubt good Christians, at least they consider themselves as such.)They all use the word Allah in their worship. Sadly,churches are firebombed and burned, all because of the perceived "monopoly" of one group of people on a word.

But of course we must face the truth however inconvenient it may be.The word itself if not only pre Islamic but also non Arabic. It may come as a shock to some that this is a borrowed word from ancient Hebrew,which was (for good reason it seems)found it's way into Islam.

Those of you who are not familiar with Hebrew language (and the Quabbalah), please allow me to spell this word as it was and is originally: A (aleph)L(lamed)L (lamed) H (heh).. The numerical values for each letters are A=1,L=30,L=30, H= 5, or the total 66!

Please notice the presence of the "prime number" 33 doubled.There are many mysteries in this Name, but due to lack of space I will not elaborate on this here.Arabic is a simplified younger cousin (much younger!!!) of Hebrew, and those of you who can read Arabic letters must be well aware of this fact.This language rests on ancient Hebrew. So, this word and it's many variations are actually in the Bible, for at least 3500 years or more.To claim "copyright" on this Name is preposterous!

Not only that.Christians have used this Name with exact the same spelling for nearly 2000 years in the middle east and are still using it without any objections from the majority muslim populations.

Only now, some politicians have discovered in Malaysia this centuries old usage of local Christians, and as elections are looming, trying to "create" an issue out of a non issue.As usual, the masses of ignorant people follow their leaders.

I am aware that for this letter I might be stoned in Saudi Arabia, even though I mean no offence to anyone, either Muslims or Christians.Then again, it may be well to remember, that the ruins of probably the oldest church (yes church) in the world, is in Saudi Arabia, just outside of Meccaâ€¦.Nestorian Christians built it in the 3rd century. At one time, some 1800 years ago, way before the rise of Islam, there were many churches and Christian communities in The Arabian Peninsula, around Medina and Mecca.No doubt, they used the word Allah in their prayers. (N.B. Saudi Authorities guard the ruins 24/7, for obvious reasons)

Well, the missionaries are innocent- for onceâ€¦.

With deep respect to all,

AJ

sohamsa@ .com, "Sanjay Rath" <sanjayrath@. ..> wrote:>> > > > > om gurave namah> > Dear Pusya> > Who do you think is to blame? Since when is Jesus called Allah? The missionaries have to stop doing such dirty tricks to brain-wash poor people. It is a shame that such a great religion and such a great teacher/son of god Ã¢â‚¬" Jesus Christ, has to be renamed as Allah by missionaries in Malaysia.> > Best Wishes> > Sanjay Rath> > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762> > Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa. com; Books: www.sagittariuspubl ications. com; Community: www.. org> > > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of pushyapushya> 12 January 2010 12:06 AM > sohamsa@ .com> Re: PIL against astrology - Bhagwanji Raiyani - Janhit Mach> > > > > > > > Dear Sanjayji,> > Thanks for sharing your astrological comment on this issue. > > Perhaps, the recent "Allah" issue in Malaysia also have some correlation with such planetary alignments:> > http://news. google.com/ news/search? aq=f <http://news. google.com/ news/search? aq=f & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> > Best Wishes,> Pushya> > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% 40. com> , "Sanjay Rath" sanjayrath@ wrote:> >> >

..

January 16, 2010

Thank you so much Steve. I apprecitae this information as I am interested in learning about their knowledge as it may hold secrets to ours.

Yud Heh Wav Heh definitely symbolises Swayambhu - related to Avyakta. I need to get hold of some books of Daniel Matt

Thanks again

Stephen K. Sufian

Saturday, January 16, 2010 3:54 AM

sohamsa

Re: Re: the Word and it's consequences

Hare Rama Krishna.I think the tack of tracing Hebrew words back to Sanskrit and Vedic is the best angle. From that standpoint, El might relate to Anil.Not that I'm an expert in Judaism but the term Yahweh is a British scholar corruption of the four-letter acronym, Yud Heh Wav Heh . Traditionally, this acronym is used to refer to the unnameable name of God. When not used in prayer, it is pronounced Ha Shem, which means "The Name". Kabbalah, which is the Hebrew Vedanta, examines all aspects of the Bible, especially names of God, from many different angles but especially breaking them down into their roots. Often the different combinations of letters of the different names of God were used as meditation devices."Israel" is the name given to Jacob, grandson of Abraham, the father of Judaism. God appeared to Jacob during the night (symbolically, during Jacob's ignorance of reality) and wrestled with him till day (symbolically, the dawn of wisdom). God dislocated Jacob's thigh (perhaps this relates to Dhanu, the Rashi of hip, dharma, Guru) but Jacob held fast to God (pretty straight forward meaning) and prevailed. He did not know who he was wrestling but when God asked to be released "for day is coming: (wisdom is dawning)", he refused to release God until he was given a blessing. Symbolism seems fairly straightforward: God in personal form tests us and we have to dive into Atma, to Self, in order to pass the test.A common way people who know Sanskrit look at the name Abraham is "Ab-Ram", out of Ram, or "A-Brahm, out of Brahm". similar derivations should be possible for Jacob: Ya-Kov. "Ya" in Sanskrit I've seen translated as "One who", "Kav" might relate to "Kavi", poetic rishi.The traditional texts of Kabbalah are: Sefer Yetzirah, the Book of Creation; Sefer Bahir ( I not sure what "Bahir means", the Zohar and Tanya. These texts tend to bring out the symbolic value of the Jewish Bible, the way in which the different stories relate to the evolution of the human soul from duality to non-duality, from waking state to Samadhi, Nitya Samadhi and to Brahmi Chetana.Again, I'm not an expert on these texts or on Judaism but that seems to me to be the most useful way to look at them and any Hebrew words.Sefer Yetzirah, particularly, can be interpreted as an astrological treatise and it has very specific sections on Astrology: for example, it has sections describing how different units of time; fire, air, water, earth; the different aspects of the human physiology and the 12 constellations were created from the 22 sounds of the Hebrew alphabet which rule over all that is less than God.Hope this helps. If you like to explore more, Daniel Matt is a scholar of Kabbalah whose works I've read a bit of. He is not only a reputed scholar but also his writings and translations breathe awareness of direct experience of samadhi and higher states of awareness.chabad.org is an organization founded by the Lubavitcher Rabbi, M Schneerson, about whom thousands of stories are told of his Jyotish Mati Pragya, his divine perception, ability to see the right course of action miles and years away. I don't know how much of his attunement is still in the custodians of his organization but everybody is likely to find someone who is at a useful level. Sanjay-ji, there may very well be someone in the organization that combines knowledge of Kabbalah with knowledge of Jewish Astrology and so might be useful.All these thoughts are a bit away from the original discussion about Islam and the origin of the word "Allah" but "Bismallahir Rahmanir Rahim" the central point is to enhance our knowledge of Jyotish as a tool to bless ourselves and the world, all of Nature, to return all of Prakriti to its oneness with Purusha.Jai Shri Ram,Steve

Sanjay Rath <sjrathsohamsa Sent: Thu, January 14, 2010 10:04:52 AMRe: Re: the Word and it's consequences

Thanks for the link. I found some interesting names out there.

Yahwah is said to be originally a storm god ....sounds like Yahmah > Yama

The article states El is derived from Sumerian Enlil, God of Wind ...sounds like 'a-nil' > anila, sanskrit wind god.

Also I read YiÅ›rÄâ€™Ä“l 'Israel', meaning 'Ä“l strives' or 'struggled with Ã©l >> Who did Ä“l struggle with? What is this struggle all about?

If you can give some links explaining these --grateful.

Freedomji

Thursday, January 14, 2010 7:13 PM

sohamsa@ .com

Re: Re: the Word and it's consequences

Hare Rama KrsnaThe word was not taken from Hebrew, it was a word for god (el, il, ilah) in the middle east long before Abraham was born.Wikipedia does a decent explication of the root http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ El_(deity)

Sanjay Rath <sjrath (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>sohamsa@ .comThu, January 14, 2010 6:23:51 PMRE: Re: the Word and it's consequences

om gurave namah

Dear Arpad ji

First â€“ A very happy Makar Sankranti to you and family and everyone else in this forum.

Thank you for your most enlightened post.. I agree with your points.

Technically you are right in saying that Allah is a word that the Islamists have taken from Hebrew and therefore they cannot claim any proprietary rights to it, but then please consider this entire episode from what is good to maintain some peace among people who do not have the learning and patience of the academic world to understand all this. Religion has caused some of the worst wars in this world. People die everyday in the name of one god or another with false promises for deliverance. In such a scenario, it is best to accept that the Islamists will be sensitive about the name Allah as much as Vaishnava would be with the name Krishna or Shaivites with Shiva and Christians with Jesus. My statement was made in that light with the hope that people learn to live and let live. I give another example - In India, the Hindi Bible calls God with the name Isa or Isvara (please correct me if I am wrong). Now, a statement like Jesus is the son of Isa or son of Isvara is fine by the Hindu as it seems most true to him, but saying Jesus is isvara or Jesus is Shiva ...now where is that going to lead? Orissa started burning. Of what use is all this propaganda if it is only going to lead to death. If we have to do anything to stop these mindless deaths, then it must be done, for peace is the single highest virtue of any society. Why give weapons in the hands of monkeys who can use it to exploit the simple ones, and if people are simple or not educated, who is to be blamed for it? Who is responsible to ensure that the society gets educated? That is another issue altogether as a lot depends on peoples definition of Government - what do they want governed in their lives.

Hope you appreciate my point in this light - I have been a Gov. servant earlier so will have a slightly different viewpoint than pure academics.

Now what was there before Christ? Nothing?? Are we to assume that a people, so lettered and so cultured had nothing before Christ. Then we say it was Hebrew, but that was the language of the slaves. What was the language and culture of those before them? Everything changes and we cannot take History as the guarantor of anything. It simply records some things but guarantee's nothing. Therefore, the root of something need not be the reason to claim it as a right. Even the father who gives birth to a child cannot claim the right over its life - and cannot take the life away simply because he gave it or caused it to happen.

Arpad ji, old converts have finished their small Jihad and are now in Jihad-e-Akbar, the inner Jihad. The ones you speak of in Malaysia, Pakistan and such places are *new Muslims* and are too busy with their external Jihad. This is a manifestation of their confusion. This is true about all *neo-converts* . They are too busy trying to fight outside battle having forgotten the real battle that rages inside, the battle for spiritual enlightenment.

.....

That name calculation to 66 is Brilliant but 33 is not a *prime number* as I understand it in Mathematics. Perhaps I am missing something here.

There is so much unsaid in your mail. I read it a few times and thought you wanted to say something more. Perhaps it is better that way. Perhaps later.

I blame the Clergy on both sides irrespective of them being Islam or Christian. All they do is make people fight their little battles for free. Oh yes, they have all these soldiers of religion for free. Poor Malaysians. The west has brought nothing but darkness into their lives in the name of religion.

Best Wishes

Sanjay Rath

15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762

Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa. com; Books: www.sagittariuspubl ications. com; Community: www.. org

sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of panchasila13 January 2010 05:49 AM sohamsa@ .com Re: the Word and it's consequences

Hare Rama Krishna, Dear Sanjay,

While both of us deplore the abhorrent missionary activities of many if not most of the churches worldwide, the issue in Malaysia is different.The core of the matter is that Christians want to use the "word" Allah in their normal prayers and publications. (as they have done now for many, may years) The reactions of the malay/muslim community is verging on the hysterical. It has been pointed out, that Malaysian Christians have used this word for many centuries in Malaya (before Malaysia became a state) in Sabah, Sarawak and elsewhere.Local, indigenious people in Sarawak (the Dayaks) are Christians for some centuries now, even though they retained some of their less "elegant" activities, i.e. some of them are still head hunters, in the literal sense of the word (and no doubt good Christians, at least they consider themselves as such.)They all use the word Allah in their worship. Sadly,churches are firebombed and burned, all because of the perceived "monopoly" of one group of people on a word.

But of course we must face the truth however inconvenient it may be.The word itself if not only pre Islamic but also non Arabic. It may come as a shock to some that this is a borrowed word from ancient Hebrew,which was (for good reason it seems)found it's way into Islam.

Those of you who are not familiar with Hebrew language (and the Quabbalah), please allow me to spell this word as it was and is originally: A (aleph)L(lamed)L (lamed) H (heh).. The numerical values for each letters are A=1,L=30,L=30, H= 5, or the total 66!

Please notice the presence of the "prime number" 33 doubled.There are many mysteries in this Name, but due to lack of space I will not elaborate on this here.Arabic is a simplified younger cousin (much younger!!!) of Hebrew, and those of you who can read Arabic letters must be well aware of this fact.This language rests on ancient Hebrew. So, this word and it's many variations are actually in the Bible, for at least 3500 years or more.To claim "copyright" on this Name is preposterous!

Not only that.Christians have used this Name with exact the same spelling for nearly 2000 years in the middle east and are still using it without any objections from the majority muslim populations.

Only now, some politicians have discovered in Malaysia this centuries old usage of local Christians, and as elections are looming, trying to "create" an issue out of a non issue.As usual, the masses of ignorant people follow their leaders.

I am aware that for this letter I might be stoned in Saudi Arabia, even though I mean no offence to anyone, either Muslims or Christians.Then again, it may be well to remember, that the ruins of probably the oldest church (yes church) in the world, is in Saudi Arabia, just outside of Meccaâ€¦.Nestorian Christians built it in the 3rd century. At one time, some 1800 years ago, way before the rise of Islam, there were many churches and Christian communities in The Arabian Peninsula, around Medina and Mecca.No doubt, they used the word Allah in their prayers. (N.B. Saudi Authorities guard the ruins 24/7, for obvious reasons)

Well, the missionaries are innocent- for onceâ€¦.

With deep respect to all,

AJ

sohamsa@ .com, "Sanjay Rath" <sanjayrath@. ..> wrote:>> > > > > om gurave namah> > Dear Pusya> > Who do you think is to blame? Since when is Jesus called Allah? The missionaries have to stop doing such dirty tricks to brain-wash poor people. It is a shame that such a great religion and such a great teacher/son of god Ã¢â‚¬" Jesus Christ, has to be renamed as Allah by missionaries in Malaysia.> > Best Wishes> > Sanjay Rath> > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762> > Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa. com; Books: www.sagittariuspubl ications. com; Community: www.. org> > > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of pushyapushya> 12 January 2010 12:06 AM > sohamsa@ .com> Re: PIL against astrology - Bhagwanji Raiyani - Janhit Mach> > > > > > > > Dear Sanjayji,> > Thanks for sharing your astrological comment on this issue. > > Perhaps, the recent "Allah" issue in Malaysia also have some correlation with such planetary alignments:> > http://news. google.com/ news/search? aq=f <http://news. google.com/ news/search? aq=f & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> > Best Wishes,> Pushya> > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% 40. com> , "Sanjay Rath" sanjayrath@ wrote:> >> >

..

January 16, 2010

That is so brilliant Freedom. I have lots of bits and pieces but fail to see the picture. Would you care to write something that would give a cross-cultural study of nirukta of these words and also explain the real Hebrew basics. Something really basic and simple to get me off the ground.

Freedomji

Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:22 PM

sohamsa

Re: Re: the Word and it's consequences

Hare Rama KrsnaI think it is more taken like Jaya Jagannatha, that he is the victorious lord, but more specific it can't mean god to struggle with... because when it is combined like that with a name it changes subject-object meaning: like mareshvara would be lord of death, not the god who dies. El is commonly combined to almost every word, the same as the sanskrit word Isha (and I postulate some relation in the root there). There is another meaning also which means the god who straightens (or makes upright-how the victorious stand), and it was the name given to Jacob (which has a root similar to sanskrit root ank meaning bent [english ankle]), so it has a spiritual transformation of the god who makes the bent straight. But most important (and enough to get me burned), the word elohim used in the old testament is in plural (not singular) meaning gods, not god. And there is constant reference to the "Hosts of Heaven''. Abraham was born in Ur (Sumeria) which was a place of astrological worship- which became later day Babylonia. If you look at the biblical 7 days of creation they relate to the 7 grahas lording the week by attributes, nothing to actually do with a linear creation (as seen by let there be light on the first day, and the Sun/Moon/stars being made on Wednesday for the calendar maker Mercury-babylonian signification of Mercury). Later Hebrew astrology called the planets Angels (not gods). Aum Namah ShivayaFreedom

Sanjay Rath <sjrathsohamsa Sent: Thu, January 14, 2010 9:34:52 PMRe: Re: the Word and it's consequences

Thanks for the link. I found some interesting names out there.

Yahwah is said to be originally a storm god ....sounds like Yahmah > Yama

The article states El is derived from Sumerian Enlil, God of Wind ...sounds like 'a-nil' > anila, sanskrit wind god.

Also I read YiÅ›rÄâ€™Ä“l 'Israel', meaning 'Ä“l strives' or 'struggled with Ã©l >> Who did Ä“l struggle with? What is this struggle all about?

If you can give some links explaining these --grateful.

Freedomji

Thursday, January 14, 2010 7:13 PM

sohamsa@ .com

Re: Re: the Word and it's consequences

Hare Rama KrsnaThe word was not taken from Hebrew, it was a word for god (el, il, ilah) in the middle east long before Abraham was born.Wikipedia does a decent explication of the root http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ El_(deity)

Sanjay Rath <sjrath (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>sohamsa@ .comThu, January 14, 2010 6:23:51 PMRE: Re: the Word and it's consequences

om gurave namah

Dear Arpad ji

First â€“ A very happy Makar Sankranti to you and family and everyone else in this forum.

Thank you for your most enlightened post.. I agree with your points.

Technically you are right in saying that Allah is a word that the Islamists have taken from Hebrew and therefore they cannot claim any proprietary rights to it, but then please consider this entire episode from what is good to maintain some peace among people who do not have the learning and patience of the academic world to understand all this. Religion has caused some of the worst wars in this world. People die everyday in the name of one god or another with false promises for deliverance. In such a scenario, it is best to accept that the Islamists will be sensitive about the name Allah as much as Vaishnava would be with the name Krishna or Shaivites with Shiva and Christians with Jesus. My statement was made in that light with the hope that people learn to live and let live. I give another example - In India, the Hindi Bible calls God with the name Isa or Isvara (please correct me if I am wrong). Now, a statement like Jesus is the son of Isa or son of Isvara is fine by the Hindu as it seems most true to him, but saying Jesus is isvara or Jesus is Shiva ...now where is that going to lead? Orissa started burning. Of what use is all this propaganda if it is only going to lead to death. If we have to do anything to stop these mindless deaths, then it must be done, for peace is the single highest virtue of any society. Why give weapons in the hands of monkeys who can use it to exploit the simple ones, and if people are simple or not educated, who is to be blamed for it? Who is responsible to ensure that the society gets educated? That is another issue altogether as a lot depends on peoples definition of Government - what do they want governed in their lives.

Hope you appreciate my point in this light - I have been a Gov. servant earlier so will have a slightly different viewpoint than pure academics.

Now what was there before Christ? Nothing?? Are we to assume that a people, so lettered and so cultured had nothing before Christ. Then we say it was Hebrew, but that was the language of the slaves. What was the language and culture of those before them? Everything changes and we cannot take History as the guarantor of anything. It simply records some things but guarantee's nothing. Therefore, the root of something need not be the reason to claim it as a right. Even the father who gives birth to a child cannot claim the right over its life - and cannot take the life away simply because he gave it or caused it to happen.

Arpad ji, old converts have finished their small Jihad and are now in Jihad-e-Akbar, the inner Jihad. The ones you speak of in Malaysia, Pakistan and such places are *new Muslims* and are too busy with their external Jihad. This is a manifestation of their confusion. This is true about all *neo-converts* . They are too busy trying to fight outside battle having forgotten the real battle that rages inside, the battle for spiritual enlightenment.

.....

That name calculation to 66 is Brilliant but 33 is not a *prime number* as I understand it in Mathematics. Perhaps I am missing something here.

There is so much unsaid in your mail. I read it a few times and thought you wanted to say something more. Perhaps it is better that way. Perhaps later.

I blame the Clergy on both sides irrespective of them being Islam or Christian. All they do is make people fight their little battles for free. Oh yes, they have all these soldiers of religion for free. Poor Malaysians. The west has brought nothing but darkness into their lives in the name of religion.

Best Wishes

Sanjay Rath

15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762

Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa. com; Books: www.sagittariuspubl ications. com; Community: www.. org

sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of panchasila13 January 2010 05:49 AM sohamsa@ .com Re: the Word and it's consequences

Hare Rama Krishna, Dear Sanjay,

While both of us deplore the abhorrent missionary activities of many if not most of the churches worldwide, the issue in Malaysia is different.The core of the matter is that Christians want to use the "word" Allah in their normal prayers and publications. (as they have done now for many, may years) The reactions of the malay/muslim community is verging on the hysterical. It has been pointed out, that Malaysian Christians have used this word for many centuries in Malaya (before Malaysia became a state) in Sabah, Sarawak and elsewhere.Local, indigenious people in Sarawak (the Dayaks) are Christians for some centuries now, even though they retained some of their less "elegant" activities, i.e. some of them are still head hunters, in the literal sense of the word (and no doubt good Christians, at least they consider themselves as such.)They all use the word Allah in their worship. Sadly,churches are firebombed and burned, all because of the perceived "monopoly" of one group of people on a word.

But of course we must face the truth however inconvenient it may be.The word itself if not only pre Islamic but also non Arabic. It may come as a shock to some that this is a borrowed word from ancient Hebrew,which was (for good reason it seems)found it's way into Islam.

Those of you who are not familiar with Hebrew language (and the Quabbalah), please allow me to spell this word as it was and is originally: A (aleph)L(lamed)L (lamed) H (heh).. The numerical values for each letters are A=1,L=30,L=30, H= 5, or the total 66!

Please notice the presence of the "prime number" 33 doubled.There are many mysteries in this Name, but due to lack of space I will not elaborate on this here.Arabic is a simplified younger cousin (much younger!!!) of Hebrew, and those of you who can read Arabic letters must be well aware of this fact.This language rests on ancient Hebrew. So, this word and it's many variations are actually in the Bible, for at least 3500 years or more.To claim "copyright" on this Name is preposterous!

Not only that.Christians have used this Name with exact the same spelling for nearly 2000 years in the middle east and are still using it without any objections from the majority muslim populations.

Only now, some politicians have discovered in Malaysia this centuries old usage of local Christians, and as elections are looming, trying to "create" an issue out of a non issue.As usual, the masses of ignorant people follow their leaders.

I am aware that for this letter I might be stoned in Saudi Arabia, even though I mean no offence to anyone, either Muslims or Christians.Then again, it may be well to remember, that the ruins of probably the oldest church (yes church) in the world, is in Saudi Arabia, just outside of Meccaâ€¦.Nestorian Christians built it in the 3rd century. At one time, some 1800 years ago, way before the rise of Islam, there were many churches and Christian communities in The Arabian Peninsula, around Medina and Mecca.No doubt, they used the word Allah in their prayers. (N.B. Saudi Authorities guard the ruins 24/7, for obvious reasons)

Well, the missionaries are innocent- for onceâ€¦.

With deep respect to all,

AJ

sohamsa@ .com, "Sanjay Rath" <sanjayrath@. ..> wrote:>> > > > > om gurave namah> > Dear Pusya> > Who do you think is to blame? Since when is Jesus called Allah? The missionaries have to stop doing such dirty tricks to brain-wash poor people.. It is a shame that such a great religion and such a great teacher/son of god Ã¢â‚¬" Jesus Christ, has to be renamed as Allah by missionaries in Malaysia.> > Best Wishes> > Sanjay Rath> > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762> > Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa. com; Books: www.sagittariuspubl ications. com; Community: www.. org> > > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of pushyapushya> 12 January 2010 12:06 AM > sohamsa@ .com> Re: PIL against astrology - Bhagwanji Raiyani - Janhit Mach> > > > > > > > Dear Sanjayji,> > Thanks for sharing your astrological comment on this issue. > > Perhaps, the recent "Allah" issue in Malaysia also have some correlation with such planetary alignments:> > http://news. google.com/ news/search? aq=f <http://news. google.com/ news/search? aq=f & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> > Best Wishes,> Pushya> > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% 40. com> , "Sanjay Rath" sanjayrath@ wrote:> >> >

..

January 16, 2010

Hare Rama Krishna,

dear Freedom,

you are quite right on two points:

Point a.

The Word Elohim is invariably,constantly and purposefully mistranslated in order to fit whatever theological motivation the translator is trying to "advertise".

The Word, Elohim is a FEMININE word with a PLURAL ending.

Thus, the bible starts (the original reading ,that is):

'BERASHIT BARA ELOHIM.....etc" (Usually translated as, in the Beginning God created ...etc)

Now, that is blatantly false, of course, not only because of Elohim is mistranslated but also is -BERASHIT. It does"t mean "in the beginning", but implies a continuation, a beginningless, eternal movement, as B (also means "AND", implying something which has started long time ago, and simply goes on)RASHIT, means : mainly.

However ELOHIM REALLY should be translated as "The Divine Mother", the Devi,the Eternal Feminine. And yes: it is plural.

Actually, ancient Hebrew is untranslatable.English and other European languages are totally unsuitable to convey not only the original meaning but the -at least 7- layers of the depth of wisdom, which only those can understand who have received some instructions in the Quabbalah.

As it is impossible to study Mantra shastra, unless one has some decent working knowledge of Sanskrit,it is equally impossible to study the Quabbalah unless one has a decent ,good working knowledge of Hebrew.One can't run without legs.....

In either case,though academic knowledge is commendable,nothing will take the place of Parampara and direct transmission from Guru to disciple.East, or West.

There is of course a Greek Quabbalah (The New Testament is based on that) and a lesser known Latin Kabbalah, such as a Kabbalah simplex,Kabbalah Duplex and the super "reserved one" Kabbalah Trigonalis. This last one is used for "prashna".In the right hands Kabbalah Trigonalis can answer VERY specific questions, like: "who stole my rolex watch (or whatever)?....the exact name will be revealed and +++ much more.

(Please notice the change in spelling... it is not for trivial reasons)

Needless to say, some knowledge of Latin and Greek is quite essential for all these.

Point "B":

yes for all these comments, both of us would be burned- in some places. (Try to say all this in places like Tennessee,let's say in Cookeville ,in some fundementalist churches.None of us would come out alive.....)

With deep respect to all:

AJ

sohamsa , Freedomji <freeflowaum wrote:>> Hare Rama Krsna> > I think it is more taken like Jaya Jagannatha, that he is the victorious lord, but more specific it can't mean god to struggle with... because when it is combined like that with a name it changes subject-object meaning: like mareshvara would be lord of death, not the god who dies. El is commonly combined to almost every word, the same as the sanskrit word Isha (and I postulate some relation in the root there). > > There is another meaning also which means the god who straightens (or makes upright-how the victorious stand), and it was the name given to Jacob (which has a root similar to sanskrit root ank meaning bent [english ankle]), so it has a spiritual transformation of the god who makes the bent straight. > But most important (and enough to get me burned), the word elohim used in the old testament is in plural (not singular) meaning gods, not god. And there is constant reference to the "Hosts of Heaven''. Abraham was born in Ur (Sumeria) which was a place of astrological worship- which became later day Babylonia. If you look at the biblical 7 days of creation they relate to the 7 grahas lording the week by attributes, nothing to actually do with a linear creation (as seen by let there be light on the first day, and the Sun/Moon/stars being made on Wednesday for the calendar maker Mercury-babylonian signification of Mercury). Later Hebrew astrology called the planets Angels (not gods). > > > Aum Namah Shivaya> Freedom> > > > > ________________________________> Sanjay Rath sjrath sohamsa > Thu, January 14, 2010 9:34:52 PM> Re: Re: the Word and it's consequences> > > Thanks for the link. I found some interesting names out > there.> Yahwah is said to be originally a storm god ....sounds > like Yahmah > Yama> The article states El is derived from > Sumerian Enlil, God of Wind ...sounds like > 'a-nil' > anila, sanskrit wind god.> Also I read YiÅ›rÄâ€™Ä"l 'Israel', meaning 'Ä"l > strives' or 'struggled with Ã©l >> Who did Ä"l struggle with? What is this > struggle all about?> If you can give some links explaining these > --grateful.> > > Freedomji > Thursday, January 14, 2010 7:13 PM> sohamsa@ .com > Re: Re: the Word and it's > consequences> > Hare Rama Krsna> > The word was not taken from Hebrew, it was a word > for god (el, il, ilah) in the middle east long before Abraham was > born.> > Wikipedia does a decent explication of the root http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ El_(deity)> > > > > ________________________________> Sanjay Rath sjrath (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>> sohamsa@ .com> Thu, January 14, 2010 6:23:51 > PM> RE: Re: > the Word and it's consequences> > > om gurave > namah> Dear Arpad ji> First â€" A very happy Makar Sankranti to you and family and everyone > else in this forum.> Thank you for your most enlightened post.. I agree with your > points.> > Technically you are right in saying that Allah is a word that the > Islamists have taken from Hebrew and therefore they cannot claim any proprietary > rights to it, but then please consider this entire episode from what is good to > maintain some peace among people who do not have the learning and patience of > the academic world to understand all this. Religion has caused some of the worst > wars in this world. People die everyday in the name of one god or another with > false promises for deliverance. In such a scenario, it is best to accept that > the Islamists will be sensitive about the name Allah as much as Vaishnava would > be with the name Krishna or Shaivites with Shiva and Christians with Jesus. My > statement was made in that light with the hope that people learn to live and let > live. I give another example - In India, the Hindi Bible calls God with the > name Isa or Isvara (please correct me if I am wrong). Now, a statement like > Jesus is the son of Isa or son of Isvara is fine by the Hindu as it seems most > true to him, but saying Jesus is isvara or Jesus is Shiva ...now where is that > going to lead? Orissa started burning. Of what use is all this propaganda if it > is only going to lead to death. If we have to do anything to stop these mindless > deaths, then it must be done, for peace is the single highest virtue of any > society. Why give weapons in the hands of monkeys who can use it to exploit the > simple ones, and if people are simple or not educated, who is to be blamed for > it? Who is responsible to ensure that the society gets educated? That is another > issue altogether as a lot depends on peoples definition of Government - what do > they want governed in their lives.> Hope you appreciate my point in this light - I have been a Gov. > servant earlier so will have a slightly different viewpoint than pure > academics.> > Now what was there before Christ? Nothing?? Are we to assume that a > people, so lettered and so cultured had nothing before Christ. Then we say it > was Hebrew, but that was the language of the slaves. What was the language and > culture of those before them? Everything changes and we cannot take History as > the guarantor of anything. It simply records some things but guarantee's > nothing. Therefore, the root of something need not be the reason to claim it as > a right.. Even the father who gives birth to a child cannot claim the right over > its life - and cannot take the life away simply because he gave it or caused it > to happen.> > Arpad ji, old converts have finished their small Jihad and are now in > Jihad-e-Akbar, the inner Jihad. The ones you speak of in Malaysia, Pakistan and > such places are *new Muslims* and are too busy with their external Jihad. This > is a manifestation of their confusion. This is true about all *neo-converts* . > They are too busy trying to fight outside battle having forgotten the real > battle that rages inside, the battle for spiritual > enlightenment.> ....> That name calculation to 66 is Brilliant but 33 is not a *prime > number* as I understand it in Mathematics. Perhaps I am missing something > here.> There is so much unsaid in your mail. I read it a few times and > thought you wanted to say something more. Perhaps it is better that way. Perhaps > later.> > I blame the Clergy on both sides irrespective of them being Islam or > Christian. All they do is make people fight their little battles for free. Oh > yes, they have all these soldiers of religion for free. Poor Malaysians. The > west has brought nothing but darkness into their lives in the name of > religion.> > Best Wishes> Sanjay Rath> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 > 8762> Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa. com; Books: > www.sagittariuspubl ications. com; Community: www.. > org > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa@ . > com] On Behalf Of panchasila> 13 January 2010 05:49 AM > sohamsa@ .com> Re: the > Word and it's consequences> > Hare Rama Krishna, > Dear Sanjay,> While both of us deplore the abhorrent missionary > activities of many if not most of the churches worldwide, the issue in Malaysia > is different.The core of the matter is that Christians want to use the "word" > Allah in their normal prayers and publications. (as they have done now for many, > may years) The reactions of the malay/muslim community is verging on the > hysterical. It has been pointed out, that Malaysian Christians have used this > word for many centuries in Malaya (before Malaysia became a state) in Sabah, > Sarawak and elsewhere.Local, indigenious people in Sarawak (the Dayaks) are > Christians for some centuries now, even though they retained some of their less > "elegant" activities, i.e. some of them are still head hunters, in the literal > sense of the word (and no doubt good Christians, at least they consider > themselves as such.)They all use the word Allah in their worship. Sadly,churches > are firebombed and burned, all because of the perceived "monopoly" of one group > of people on a word.> But of course we must face the truth however > inconvenient it may be.The word itself if not only pre Islamic but also non Arabic. It may come as a shock to some that this is a borrowed word > from ancient Hebrew,which was (for good reason it seems)found it's way into > Islam.> Those of you who are not familiar with Hebrew language > (and the Quabbalah), please allow me to spell this word as it was and is originally: A (aleph)L(lamed)L (lamed) H (heh).. The > numerical values for each letters are A=1,L=30,L=30, H= 5, or the total 66! > Please notice the presence of the "prime > number" 33 doubled.There are many mysteries in this Name, but due to lack of > space I will not elaborate on this here.Arabic is a simplified younger cousin > (much younger!!!) of Hebrew, and those of you who can read Arabic letters must > be well aware of this fact.This language rests on ancient Hebrew. So, this word > and it's many variations are actually in the Bible, for at least 3500 years or > more.To claim "copyright" on this Name is preposterous!> Not only that.Christians have used this Name with exact > the same spelling for nearly 2000 years in the middle east and are still using > it without any objections from the majority muslim populations.> Only now, some politicians have discovered in Malaysia > this centuries old usage of local Christians, and as elections are looming, > trying to "create" an issue out of a non issue.As usual, the masses of ignorant > people follow their leaders.> I am aware that for this letter I might be stoned in > Saudi Arabia, even though I mean no offence to anyone, either Muslims or > Christians.Then again, it may be well to remember, that the ruins of probably > the oldest church (yes church) in the world, is in Saudi Arabia, > just outside of Meccaâ€¦.Nestorian Christians built it in the 3rd century. At one time, some 1800 years ago, way before the rise of Islam, > there were many churches and Christian communities in The Arabian Peninsula, > around Medina and Mecca.No doubt, they used the word Allah in their prayers. > (N.B. Saudi Authorities guard the ruins 24/7, for obvious reasons)> Well, the missionaries are innocent- for > onceâ€¦.> > With deep respect to all,> AJ> > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, "Sanjay Rath" > sanjayrath@ ..> wrote:> >> > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah> > > > Dear Pusya> > > > Who do you > think is to blame? Since when is Jesus called Allah? The missionaries have to > stop doing such dirty tricks to brain-wash poor people. It is a shame that such > a great religion and such a great teacher/son of god Ã¢â‚¬" Jesus Christ, has to be > renamed as Allah by missionaries in Malaysia.> > > > Best > Wishes> > > > Sanjay Rath> > > > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, > New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762> > > > Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: > www.sohamsa. com; Books: www.sagittariuspubl ications. com; Community: > www.. org> > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of > pushyapushya> > 12 January 2010 12:06 AM > > > sohamsa@ .com> > Re: PIL against astrology - > Bhagwanji Raiyani - Janhit Mach> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sanjayji,> > > > Thanks for sharing > your astrological comment on this issue. > > > > Perhaps, the recent > "Allah" issue in Malaysia also have some correlation with such planetary > alignments:> > > > http://news. google..com/ news/search? aq=f <http://news. google.com/ news/search? > aq=f & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> > & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> > > > > Best Wishes,> > Pushya> > > > sohamsa@ .com > <sohamsa% 40. com> , "Sanjay Rath" sanjayrath@ > wrote:> > >> > > > > .>

January 16, 2010

Hare Rama Krishna,

Dear Sanjay-ji,

yes, you are quite right, I have left a few things unsaid.... it is better this way, for now.Suffice it to say, that all these missionary activities,stupidities,neo converts-sneaky covert/overt/forced conversions- and the ocean of suffering which the religions of the Desert (the 3 main ones)unleashed for the last few thousand years,fills me with unutterable sadness.

Ignorance is everywhere.....

With deep respect to all.

AJ

sohamsa , "Sanjay Rath" <sjrath wrote:>> > > om gurave namah> > Dear Arpad ji> > First â€" A very happy Makar Sankranti to you and family and everyone else in this forum.> > Thank you for your most enlightened post. I agree with your points.> > > > Technically you are right in saying that Allah is a word that the Islamists have taken from Hebrew and therefore they cannot claim any proprietary rights to it, but then please consider this entire episode from what is good to maintain some peace among people who do not have the learning and patience of the academic world to understand all this. Religion has caused some of the worst wars in this world. People die everyday in the name of one god or another with false promises for deliverance. In such a scenario, it is best to accept that the Islamists will be sensitive about the name Allah as much as Vaishnava would be with the name Krishna or Shaivites with Shiva and Christians with Jesus. My statement was made in that light with the hope that people learn to live and let live. I give another example - In India, the Hindi Bible calls God with the name Isa or Isvara (please correct me if I am wrong). Now, a statement like Jesus is the son of Isa or son of Isvara is fine by the Hindu as it seems most true to him, but saying Jesus is isvara or Jesus is Shiva ...now where is that going to lead? Orissa started burning. Of what use is all this propaganda if it is only going to lead to death. If we have to do anything to stop these mindless deaths, then it must be done, for peace is the single highest virtue of any society. Why give weapons in the hands of monkeys who can use it to exploit the simple ones, and if people are simple or not educated, who is to be blamed for it? Who is responsible to ensure that the society gets educated? That is another issue altogether as a lot depends on peoples definition of Government - what do they want governed in their lives.> > Hope you appreciate my point in this light - I have been a Gov. servant earlier so will have a slightly different viewpoint than pure academics.> > > > Now what was there before Christ? Nothing?? Are we to assume that a people, so lettered and so cultured had nothing before Christ. Then we say it was Hebrew, but that was the language of the slaves. What was the language and culture of those before them? Everything changes and we cannot take History as the guarantor of anything. It simply records some things but guarantee's nothing. Therefore, the root of something need not be the reason to claim it as a right. Even the father who gives birth to a child cannot claim the right over its life - and cannot take the life away simply because he gave it or caused it to happen.> > > > Arpad ji, old converts have finished their small Jihad and are now in Jihad-e-Akbar, the inner Jihad. The ones you speak of in Malaysia, Pakistan and such places are *new Muslims* and are too busy with their external Jihad. This is a manifestation of their confusion. This is true about all *neo-converts*. They are too busy trying to fight outside battle having forgotten the real battle that rages inside, the battle for spiritual enlightenment.> > ....> > That name calculation to 66 is Brilliant but 33 is not a *prime number* as I understand it in Mathematics. Perhaps I am missing something here.> > There is so much unsaid in your mail. I read it a few times and thought you wanted to say something more. Perhaps it is better that way. Perhaps later.> > > > I blame the Clergy on both sides irrespective of them being Islam or Christian. All they do is make people fight their little battles for free. Oh yes, they have all these soldiers of religion for free. Poor Malaysians. The west has brought nothing but darkness into their lives in the name of religion.> > > > Best Wishes> > Sanjay Rath> > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762> > Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa.com; Books: www.sagittariuspublications.com; Community: www..org> > > > sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of panchasila> 13 January 2010 05:49 AM > sohamsa > Re: the Word and it's consequences> > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna,> > Dear Sanjay,> > While both of us deplore the abhorrent missionary activities of many if not most of the churches worldwide, the issue in Malaysia is different.The core of the matter is that Christians want to use the "word" Allah in their normal prayers and publications.(as they have done now for many, may years) The reactions of the malay/muslim community is verging on the hysterical. It has been pointed out, that Malaysian Christians have used this word for many centuries in Malaya (before Malaysia became a state) in Sabah, Sarawak and elsewhere.Local, indigenious people in Sarawak (the Dayaks) are Christians for some centuries now, even though they retained some of their less "elegant" activities, i.e. some of them are still head hunters, in the literal sense of the word (and no doubt good Christians, at least they consider themselves as such.)They all use the word Allah in their worship. Sadly,churches are firebombed and burned, all because of the perceived "monopoly" of one group of people on a word.> > But of course we must face the truth however inconvenient it may be.The word itself if not only pre Islamic but also non Arabic. It may come as a shock to some that this is a borrowed word from ancient Hebrew,which was (for good reason it seems)found it's way into Islam.> > Those of you who are not familiar with Hebrew language (and the Quabbalah), please allow me to spell this word as it was and is originally: A (aleph)L(lamed)L (lamed) H (heh). The numerical values for each letters are A=1,L=30,L=30,H= 5, or the total 66! > > Please notice the presence of the "prime number" 33 doubled.There are many mysteries in this Name, but due to lack of space I will not elaborate on this here.Arabic is a simplified younger cousin (much younger!!!) of Hebrew, and those of you who can read Arabic letters must be well aware of this fact.This language rests on ancient Hebrew. So, this word and it's many variations are actually in the Bible, for at least 3500 years or more.To claim "copyright" on this Name is preposterous!> > Not only that.Christians have used this Name with exact the same spelling for nearly 2000 years in the middle east and are still using it without any objections from the majority muslim populations.> > Only now, some politicians have discovered in Malaysia this centuries old usage of local Christians, and as elections are looming, trying to "create" an issue out of a non issue.As usual, the masses of ignorant people follow their leaders.> > I am aware that for this letter I might be stoned in Saudi Arabia, even though I mean no offence to anyone, either Muslims or Christians.Then again, it may be well to remember, that the ruins of probably the oldest church (yes church) in the world, is in Saudi Arabia, just outside of Meccaâ€¦.Nestorian Christians built it in the 3rd century. At one time, some 1800 years ago, way before the rise of Islam, there were many churches and Christian communities in The Arabian Peninsula, around Medina and Mecca.No doubt, they used the word Allah in their prayers. (N.B. Saudi Authorities guard the ruins 24/7, for obvious reasons)> > Well, the missionaries are innocent- for onceâ€¦.> > > > With deep respect to all,> > AJ> > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , "Sanjay Rath" sanjayrath@ wrote:> >> > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah> > > > Dear Pusya> > > > Who do you think is to blame? Since when is Jesus called Allah? The missionaries have to stop doing such dirty tricks to brain-wash poor people. It is a shame that such a great religion and such a great teacher/son of god Ã¢â‚¬" Jesus Christ, has to be renamed as Allah by missionaries in Malaysia.> > > > Best Wishes> > > > Sanjay Rath> > > > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762> > > > Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa.com; Books: www.sagittariuspublications.com; Community: www..org> > > > > > > > sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of pushyapushya> > 12 January 2010 12:06 AM > > sohamsa > > Re: PIL against astrology - Bhagwanji Raiyani - Janhit Mach> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sanjayji,> > > > Thanks for sharing your astrological comment on this issue. > > > > Perhaps, the recent "Allah" issue in Malaysia also have some correlation with such planetary alignments:> > > > http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f <http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> > > > Best Wishes,> > Pushya> > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40> , "Sanjay Rath" sanjayrath@ wrote:> > >> > > > > > .>

January 16, 2010

Also, it relates to yantras: the Yud is a small letter, like a teardrop, so it's like a bindu. The Heh is large, like a room, so its like the circumference of a yantra; for example, the outer enclosures of Sri Yantra; the Wav is like a straight line, so it's like an axis of a yantra. So we get Yud Heh Wav Heh is like point to whole, axis to whole. The meaning of Yud Heh Wav Heh was given by God to Moses when Moses asked God "When the people ask me who are, what shall I tell them. God answered Yud Heh Wav Heh, which is commonly translated as "I am that I am" or "I will be that I will be". In other words, only I know Myself and the people need to get attuned to Me and then know Me by direct experience, become One with Me. Just like Vedanta.SteveSanjay Rath <sjrathsohamsa Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 9:23:11 PMRe: Re: the Word and it's consequences

Thank you so much Steve. I apprecitae this information as I am interested in learning about their knowledge as it may hold secrets to ours.

Yud Heh Wav Heh definitely symbolises Swayambhu - related to Avyakta. I need to get hold of some books of Daniel Matt

Thanks again

Stephen K. Sufian

Saturday, January 16, 2010 3:54 AM

sohamsa@ .com

Re: Re: the Word and it's consequences

Hare Rama Krishna.I think the tack of tracing Hebrew words back to Sanskrit and Vedic is the best angle. From that standpoint, El might relate to Anil.Not that I'm an expert in Judaism but the term Yahweh is a British scholar corruption of the four-letter acronym, Yud Heh Wav Heh . Traditionally, this acronym is used to refer to the unnameable name of God. When not used in prayer, it is pronounced Ha Shem, which means "The Name". Kabbalah, which is the Hebrew Vedanta, examines all aspects of the Bible, especially names of God, from many different angles but especially breaking them down into their roots. Often the different combinations of letters of the different names of God were used as meditation devices."Israel" is the name given to Jacob, grandson of Abraham, the father of Judaism. God appeared to Jacob during the night (symbolically, during Jacob's ignorance of reality) and wrestled with him till day (symbolically, the dawn of wisdom). God dislocated Jacob's thigh (perhaps this relates to Dhanu, the Rashi of hip, dharma, Guru) but Jacob held fast to God (pretty straight forward meaning) and prevailed. He did not know who he was wrestling but when God asked to be released "for day is coming: (wisdom is dawning)", he refused to release God until he was given a blessing. Symbolism seems fairly straightforward: God in personal form tests us and we have to dive into Atma, to Self, in order to pass the test.A common way people who know Sanskrit look at the name Abraham is "Ab-Ram", out of Ram, or "A-Brahm, out of Brahm". similar derivations should be possible for Jacob: Ya-Kov. "Ya" in Sanskrit I've seen translated as "One who", "Kav" might relate to "Kavi", poetic rishi.The traditional texts of Kabbalah are: Sefer Yetzirah, the Book of Creation; Sefer Bahir ( I not sure what "Bahir means", the Zohar and Tanya. These texts tend to bring out the symbolic value of the Jewish Bible, the way in which the different stories relate to the evolution of the human soul from duality to non-duality, from waking state to Samadhi, Nitya Samadhi and to Brahmi Chetana.Again, I'm not an expert on these texts or on Judaism but that seems to me to be the most useful way to look at them and any Hebrew words.Sefer Yetzirah, particularly, can be interpreted as an astrological treatise and it has very specific sections on Astrology: for example, it has sections describing how different units of time; fire, air, water, earth; the different aspects of the human physiology and the 12 constellations were created from the 22 sounds of the Hebrew alphabet which rule over all that is less than God.Hope this helps. If you like to explore more, Daniel Matt is a scholar of Kabbalah whose works I've read a bit of. He is not only a reputed scholar but also his writings and translations breathe awareness of direct experience of samadhi and higher states of awareness.chabad.org is an organization founded by the Lubavitcher Rabbi, M Schneerson, about whom thousands of stories are told of his Jyotish Mati Pragya, his divine perception, ability to see the right course of action miles and years away. I don't know how much of his attunement is still in the custodians of his organization but everybody is likely to find someone who is at a useful level. Sanjay-ji, there may very well be someone in the organization that combines knowledge of Kabbalah with knowledge of Jewish Astrology and so might be useful.All these thoughts are a bit away from the original discussion about Islam and the origin of the word "Allah" but "Bismallahir Rahmanir Rahim" the central point is to enhance our knowledge of Jyotish as a tool to bless ourselves and the world, all of Nature, to return all of Prakriti to its oneness with Purusha.Jai Shri Ram,Steve

Sanjay Rath <sjrath (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>sohamsa@ .comThu, January 14, 2010 10:04:52 AMRe: Re: the Word and it's consequences

Thanks for the link. I found some interesting names out there.

Yahwah is said to be originally a storm god ....sounds like Yahmah > Yama

The article states El is derived from Sumerian Enlil, God of Wind ...sounds like 'a-nil' > anila, sanskrit wind god.

Also I read YiÅ›rÄâ€™Ä“l 'Israel', meaning 'Ä“l strives' or 'struggled with Ã©l >> Who did Ä“l struggle with? What is this struggle all about?

If you can give some links explaining these --grateful.

Freedomji

Thursday, January 14, 2010 7:13 PM

sohamsa@ .com

Re: Re: the Word and it's consequences

Hare Rama KrsnaThe word was not taken from Hebrew, it was a word for god (el, il, ilah) in the middle east long before Abraham was born.Wikipedia does a decent explication of the root http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ El_(deity)

Sanjay Rath <sjrath (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>sohamsa@ .comThu, January 14, 2010 6:23:51 PMRE: Re: the Word and it's consequences

om gurave namah

Dear Arpad ji

First â€“ A very happy Makar Sankranti to you and family and everyone else in this forum.

Thank you for your most enlightened post.. I agree with your points.

Technically you are right in saying that Allah is a word that the Islamists have taken from Hebrew and therefore they cannot claim any proprietary rights to it, but then please consider this entire episode from what is good to maintain some peace among people who do not have the learning and patience of the academic world to understand all this. Religion has caused some of the worst wars in this world. People die everyday in the name of one god or another with false promises for deliverance. In such a scenario, it is best to accept that the Islamists will be sensitive about the name Allah as much as Vaishnava would be with the name Krishna or Shaivites with Shiva and Christians with Jesus. My statement was made in that light with the hope that people learn to live and let live. I give another example - In India, the Hindi Bible calls God with the name Isa or Isvara (please correct me if I am wrong). Now, a statement like Jesus is the son of Isa or son of Isvara is fine by the Hindu as it seems most true to him, but saying Jesus is isvara or Jesus is Shiva ...now where is that going to lead? Orissa started burning. Of what use is all this propaganda if it is only going to lead to death. If we have to do anything to stop these mindless deaths, then it must be done, for peace is the single highest virtue of any society. Why give weapons in the hands of monkeys who can use it to exploit the simple ones, and if people are simple or not educated, who is to be blamed for it? Who is responsible to ensure that the society gets educated? That is another issue altogether as a lot depends on peoples definition of Government - what do they want governed in their lives.

Hope you appreciate my point in this light - I have been a Gov. servant earlier so will have a slightly different viewpoint than pure academics.

Now what was there before Christ? Nothing?? Are we to assume that a people, so lettered and so cultured had nothing before Christ. Then we say it was Hebrew, but that was the language of the slaves. What was the language and culture of those before them? Everything changes and we cannot take History as the guarantor of anything. It simply records some things but guarantee's nothing. Therefore, the root of something need not be the reason to claim it as a right. Even the father who gives birth to a child cannot claim the right over its life - and cannot take the life away simply because he gave it or caused it to happen.

Arpad ji, old converts have finished their small Jihad and are now in Jihad-e-Akbar, the inner Jihad. The ones you speak of in Malaysia, Pakistan and such places are *new Muslims* and are too busy with their external Jihad. This is a manifestation of their confusion. This is true about all *neo-converts* . They are too busy trying to fight outside battle having forgotten the real battle that rages inside, the battle for spiritual enlightenment.

.....

That name calculation to 66 is Brilliant but 33 is not a *prime number* as I understand it in Mathematics. Perhaps I am missing something here.

There is so much unsaid in your mail. I read it a few times and thought you wanted to say something more. Perhaps it is better that way. Perhaps later.

I blame the Clergy on both sides irrespective of them being Islam or Christian. All they do is make people fight their little battles for free. Oh yes, they have all these soldiers of religion for free. Poor Malaysians. The west has brought nothing but darkness into their lives in the name of religion.

Best Wishes

Sanjay Rath

15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762

Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa. com; Books: www.sagittariuspubl ications. com; Community: www.. org

sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of panchasila13 January 2010 05:49 AM sohamsa@ .com Re: the Word and it's consequences

Hare Rama Krishna, Dear Sanjay,

While both of us deplore the abhorrent missionary activities of many if not most of the churches worldwide, the issue in Malaysia is different.The core of the matter is that Christians want to use the "word" Allah in their normal prayers and publications. (as they have done now for many, may years) The reactions of the malay/muslim community is verging on the hysterical. It has been pointed out, that Malaysian Christians have used this word for many centuries in Malaya (before Malaysia became a state) in Sabah, Sarawak and elsewhere.Local, indigenious people in Sarawak (the Dayaks) are Christians for some centuries now, even though they retained some of their less "elegant" activities, i.e. some of them are still head hunters, in the literal sense of the word (and no doubt good Christians, at least they consider themselves as such.)They all use the word Allah in their worship. Sadly,churches are firebombed and burned, all because of the perceived "monopoly" of one group of people on a word.

But of course we must face the truth however inconvenient it may be.The word itself if not only pre Islamic but also non Arabic. It may come as a shock to some that this is a borrowed word from ancient Hebrew,which was (for good reason it seems)found it's way into Islam.

Those of you who are not familiar with Hebrew language (and the Quabbalah), please allow me to spell this word as it was and is originally: A (aleph)L(lamed)L (lamed) H (heh).. The numerical values for each letters are A=1,L=30,L=30, H= 5, or the total 66!

Please notice the presence of the "prime number" 33 doubled.There are many mysteries in this Name, but due to lack of space I will not elaborate on this here.Arabic is a simplified younger cousin (much younger!!!) of Hebrew, and those of you who can read Arabic letters must be well aware of this fact.This language rests on ancient Hebrew. So, this word and it's many variations are actually in the Bible, for at least 3500 years or more.To claim "copyright" on this Name is preposterous!

Not only that.Christians have used this Name with exact the same spelling for nearly 2000 years in the middle east and are still using it without any objections from the majority muslim populations.

Only now, some politicians have discovered in Malaysia this centuries old usage of local Christians, and as elections are looming, trying to "create" an issue out of a non issue.As usual, the masses of ignorant people follow their leaders.

I am aware that for this letter I might be stoned in Saudi Arabia, even though I mean no offence to anyone, either Muslims or Christians.Then again, it may be well to remember, that the ruins of probably the oldest church (yes church) in the world, is in Saudi Arabia, just outside of Meccaâ€¦.Nestorian Christians built it in the 3rd century. At one time, some 1800 years ago, way before the rise of Islam, there were many churches and Christian communities in The Arabian Peninsula, around Medina and Mecca.No doubt, they used the word Allah in their prayers. (N.B. Saudi Authorities guard the ruins 24/7, for obvious reasons)

Well, the missionaries are innocent- for onceâ€¦.

With deep respect to all,

AJ

sohamsa@ .com, "Sanjay Rath" <sanjayrath@. ..> wrote:>> > > > > om gurave namah> > Dear Pusya> > Who do you think is to blame? Since when is Jesus called Allah? The missionaries have to stop doing such dirty tricks to brain-wash poor people. It is a shame that such a great religion and such a great teacher/son of god Ã¢â‚¬" Jesus Christ, has to be renamed as Allah by missionaries in Malaysia.> > Best Wishes> > Sanjay Rath> > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762> > Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa. com; Books: www.sagittariuspubl ications. com; Community: www.. org> > > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of pushyapushya> 12 January 2010 12:06 AM > sohamsa@ .com> Re: PIL against astrology - Bhagwanji Raiyani - Janhit Mach> > > > > > > > Dear Sanjayji,> > Thanks for sharing your astrological comment on this issue. > > Perhaps, the recent "Allah" issue in Malaysia also have some correlation with such planetary alignments:> > http://news. google.com/ news/search? aq=f <http://news. google.com/ news/search? aq=f & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> > Best Wishes,> Pushya> > sohamsa@ .com <sohamsa% 40. com> , "Sanjay Rath" sanjayrath@ wrote:> >> >

..

January 17, 2010

Hare Rama Krishna,

Dear Steve,

couple of points:

there is no letter "W" in Hebrew, so the Divine Name you refer to (the Tetragrammaton, Unpronouncable Name) is Actually Yd Hh Vv Hh.The numerical value is 26.Extended value is: 40.

This Name is UNTRNSLATABLE! It does't mean "I am thatI shall be etc". If you go back to the Bible and read the Hebrew original, that episode of the "burning bush" and the revelation of God to Moses used a different Divine Name, and that is:

"eheyeh asher eheyeh"- or with correct spelling: AHIH ASHR AHIH. Even this is totally untranslatable, but a rough equivalent is :

I am that I am, that ever was, will be is now and ever becoming.(admittedly bad translation, I accept)Quabbalists use this Name for coordination with the in and out breathing to access higher states of consciousness.

This Name refers to the Highest Sphere on the Tree of Life, called Kether (the Crown) and in the human body to the Shashrara chakra.The experience associated with this Name is the equivalent of Nirvikalpa Samadhi.It is said, that those who attain this state with the Name shall go forth no more.No return.

With deep respect to allAJsohamsa , "Stephen K. Sufian" <veda108 wrote:>> Also, it relates to yantras: the Yud is a small letter, like a teardrop, so it's like a bindu. The Heh is large, like a room, so its like the circumference of a yantra; for example, the outer enclosures of Sri Yantra; the Wav is like a straight line, so it's like an axis of a yantra. So we get Yud Heh Wav Heh is like point to whole, axis to whole. > The meaning of Yud Heh Wav Heh was given by God to Moses when Moses asked God "When the people ask me who are, what shall I tell them. God answered Yud Heh Wav Heh, which is commonly translated as "I am that I am" or "I will be that I will be". In other words, only I know Myself and the people need to get attuned to Me and then know Me by direct experience, become One with Me.> > Just like Vedanta.> Steve> > > > > ________________________________> Sanjay Rath sjrath sohamsa > Fri, January 15, 2010 9:23:11 PM> Re: Re: the Word and it's consequences> > > Thank you so much Steve. I apprecitae this information > as I am interested in learning about their knowledge as it may hold secrets to > ours.> Yud Heh Wav Heh definitely symbolises Swayambhu - > related to Avyakta. I need to get hold of some books of Daniel Matt> Thanks again> > > Stephen K. Sufian > Saturday, January 16, 2010 3:54 AM> sohamsa@ .com > Re: Re: the Word and it's > consequences> > Hare Rama Krishna.> > I think the tack of tracing Hebrew words back to > Sanskrit and Vedic is the best angle. From that standpoint, El might relate to > Anil.> Not that I'm an expert in Judaism but the term > Yahweh is a British scholar corruption of the four-letter acronym, Yud Heh Wav > Heh . Traditionally, this acronym is used to refer to the unnameable name of > God. When not used in prayer, it is pronounced Ha Shem, which means "The Name". > Kabbalah, which is the Hebrew Vedanta, examines all aspects of the Bible, > especially names of God, from many different angles but especially breaking them > down into their roots. Often the different combinations of letters of the > different names of God were used as meditation devices.> > "Israel" is the name given to Jacob, grandson of > Abraham, the father of Judaism. God appeared to Jacob during the night > (symbolically, during Jacob's ignorance of reality) and wrestled with him till > day (symbolically, the dawn of wisdom). God dislocated Jacob's thigh (perhaps > this relates to Dhanu, the Rashi of hip, dharma, Guru) but Jacob held fast to > God (pretty straight forward meaning) and prevailed. He did not know who he was > wrestling but when God asked to be released "for day is coming: (wisdom is > dawning)", he refused to release God until he was given a blessing. Symbolism > seems fairly straightforward: God in personal form tests us and we have to dive > into Atma, to Self, in order to pass the test.> > > A common way > people who know Sanskrit look at the name Abraham is "Ab-Ram", out of Ram, or > "A-Brahm, out of Brahm". similar derivations should be possible for Jacob: > Ya-Kov. "Ya" in Sanskrit I've seen translated as "One who", "Kav" might relate > to "Kavi", poetic rishi.> > The traditional > texts of Kabbalah are: Sefer Yetzirah, the Book of Creation; Sefer Bahir ( I not > sure what > "Bahir means", the Zohar and Tanya. These texts tend > to bring out the symbolic value of the Jewish Bible, the way in which the > different stories relate to the evolution of the human soul from duality to > non-duality, from waking state to Samadhi, Nitya Samadhi and to Brahmi > Chetana.> > Again, I'm not an > expert on these texts or on Judaism but that seems to me to be the most useful > way to look at them and any Hebrew words.> > Sefer Yetzirah, particularly, can be interpreted as > an astrological treatise and it has very specific sections on Astrology: for > example, it has sections describing how different units of time; fire, air, > water, earth; the different aspects of the human physiology and the 12 > constellations were created from the 22 sounds of the Hebrew alphabet which rule > over all that is less than God.> > Hope this helps. > If you like to explore more, Daniel Matt is a scholar of Kabbalah whose works > I've read a bit of. He is not only a reputed scholar but also his writings and > translations breathe awareness of direct experience of samadhi and higher states > of awareness.> > chabad.org is an organization founded by the > Lubavitcher Rabbi, M Schneerson, about whom thousands of stories are told of his > Jyotish Mati Pragya, his divine perception, ability to see the right course of > action miles and years away. I don't know how much of his attunement is still in > the custodians of his organization but everybody is likely to find someone who > is at a useful level. Sanjay-ji, there may very well be someone in the > organization that combines knowledge of Kabbalah with knowledge of Jewish > Astrology and so might be useful.> > All these thoughts are a bit away from the original > discussion about Islam and the origin of the word > "Allah" but > "Bismallahir Rahmanir Rahim" the central point is to enhance our knowledge of > Jyotish as a tool to bless ourselves and the world, all of Nature, to return all > of Prakriti to its oneness with Purusha.> Jai Shri > Ram,> Steve> > > > > ________________________________> Sanjay Rath > sjrath (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>> sohamsa@ .com> Thu, January 14, 2010 10:04:52 AM> Re: Re: the Word and > it's consequences> > > Thanks for the link. I found some interesting names out > there.> Yahwah is said to be originally a storm god ....sounds > like Yahmah > Yama> The article states El is derived from > Sumerian Enlil, God of Wind ...sounds like > 'a-nil' > anila, sanskrit wind god.> Also I read YiÅ›rÄâ€™Ä"l 'Israel', meaning 'Ä"l > strives' or 'struggled with Ã©l >> Who did Ä"l struggle with? What is this > struggle all about?> If you can give some links explaining these > --grateful.> > > Freedomji > Thursday, January 14, 2010 7:13 PM> sohamsa@ .com > Re: Re: the Word and it's > consequences> > Hare Rama Krsna> > The word was not taken from Hebrew, it was a word > for god (el, il, ilah) in the middle east long before Abraham was > born.> > Wikipedia does a decent explication of the root http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ El_(deity)> > > > > ________________________________> Sanjay Rath sjrath (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>> sohamsa@ > .com> Thu, January 14, > 2010 6:23:51 PM> RE: > Re: the Word and it's consequences> > > om gurave > namah> Dear Arpad ji> First â€" A very happy Makar Sankranti to you and family and everyone > else in this forum.> Thank you for your most enlightened post.. I agree with your > points.> > Technically you are right in saying that Allah is a word that the > Islamists have taken from Hebrew and therefore they cannot claim any proprietary > rights to it, but then please consider this entire episode from what is good to > maintain some peace among people who do not have the learning and patience of > the academic world to understand all this. Religion has caused some of the worst > wars in this world. People die everyday in the name of one god or another with > false promises for deliverance. In such a scenario, it is best to accept that > the Islamists will be sensitive about the name Allah as much as Vaishnava would > be with the name Krishna or Shaivites with Shiva and Christians with Jesus. My > statement was made in that light with the hope that people learn to live and let > live. I give another example - In India, the Hindi Bible calls God with the > name Isa or Isvara (please correct me if I am wrong). Now, a statement like > Jesus is the son of Isa or son of Isvara is fine by the Hindu as it seems most > true to him, but saying Jesus is isvara or Jesus is Shiva ...now where is that > going to lead? Orissa started burning. Of what use is all this propaganda if it > is only going to lead to death. If we have to do anything to stop these mindless > deaths, then it must be done, for peace is the single highest virtue of any > society. Why give weapons in the hands of monkeys who can use it to exploit the > simple ones, and if people are simple or not educated, who is to be blamed for > it? Who is responsible to ensure that the society gets educated? That is another > issue altogether as a lot depends on peoples definition of Government - what do > they want governed in their lives.> Hope you appreciate my point in this light - I have been a Gov. > servant earlier so will have a slightly different viewpoint than pure > academics.> > Now what was there before Christ? Nothing?? Are we to assume that a > people, so lettered and so cultured had nothing before Christ. Then we say it > was Hebrew, but that was the language of the slaves. What was the language and > culture of those before them? Everything changes and we cannot take History as > the guarantor of anything. It simply records some things but guarantee's > nothing. Therefore, the root of something need not be the reason to claim it as > a right. Even the father who gives birth to a child cannot claim the right over > its life - and cannot take the life away simply because he gave it or caused it > to happen.> > Arpad ji, old converts have finished their small Jihad and are now in > Jihad-e-Akbar, the inner Jihad. The ones you speak of in Malaysia, Pakistan and > such places are *new Muslims* and are too busy with their external Jihad. This > is a manifestation of their confusion. This is true about all *neo-converts* . > They are too busy trying to fight outside battle having forgotten the real > battle that rages inside, the battle for spiritual > enlightenment.> ....> That name calculation to 66 is Brilliant but 33 is not a *prime > number* as I understand it in Mathematics. Perhaps I am missing something > here.> There is so much unsaid in your mail. I read it a few times and > thought you wanted to say something more. Perhaps it is better that way. Perhaps > later.> > I blame the Clergy on both sides irrespective of them being Islam or > Christian. All they do is make people fight their little battles for free. Oh > yes, they have all these soldiers of religion for free. Poor Malaysians. The > west has brought nothing but darkness into their lives in the name of > religion.> > Best Wishes> Sanjay Rath> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 > 8762> Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa. com; Books: > www.sagittariuspubl ications. com; Community: www.. > org > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa@ . > com] On Behalf Of panchasila> 13 January 2010 05:49 AM > sohamsa@ .com> Re: the > Word and it's consequences> > Hare Rama Krishna, > Dear Sanjay,> While both of us deplore the abhorrent missionary > activities of many if not most of the churches worldwide, the issue in Malaysia > is different.The core of the matter is that Christians want to use the "word" > Allah in their normal prayers and publications. (as they have done now for many, > may years) The reactions of the malay/muslim community is verging on the > hysterical. It has been pointed out, that Malaysian Christians have used this > word for many centuries in Malaya (before Malaysia became a state) in Sabah, > Sarawak and elsewhere.Local, indigenious people in Sarawak (the Dayaks) are > Christians for some centuries now, even though they retained some of their less > "elegant" activities, i.e. some of them are still head hunters, in the literal > sense of the word (and no doubt good Christians, at least they consider > themselves as such.)They all use the word Allah in their worship. Sadly,churches > are firebombed and burned, all because of the perceived "monopoly" of one group > of people on a word.> But of course we must face the truth however > inconvenient it may be.The word itself if not only pre Islamic but also non Arabic. It may come as a shock to some that this is a borrowed word > from ancient Hebrew,which was (for good reason it seems)found it's way into > Islam.> Those of you who are not familiar with Hebrew language > (and the Quabbalah), please allow me to spell this word as it was and is originally: A (aleph)L(lamed)L (lamed) H (heh).. The > numerical values for each letters are A=1,L=30,L=30, H= 5, or the total 66! > Please notice the presence of the "prime > number" 33 doubled.There are many mysteries in this Name, but due to lack of > space I will not elaborate on this here.Arabic is a simplified younger cousin > (much younger!!!) of Hebrew, and those of you who can read Arabic letters must > be well aware of this fact.This language rests on ancient Hebrew. So, this word > and it's many variations are actually in the Bible, for at least 3500 years or > more.To claim "copyright" on this Name is preposterous!> Not only that.Christians have used this Name with exact > the same spelling for nearly 2000 years in the middle east and are still using > it without any objections from the majority muslim populations.> Only now, some politicians have discovered in Malaysia > this centuries old usage of local Christians, and as elections are looming, > trying to "create" an issue out of a non issue.As usual, the masses of ignorant > people follow their leaders.> I am aware that for this letter I might be stoned in > Saudi Arabia, even though I mean no offence to anyone, either Muslims or > Christians.Then again, it may be well to remember, that the ruins of probably > the oldest church (yes church) in the world, is in Saudi Arabia, > just outside of Meccaâ€¦.Nestorian Christians built it in the 3rd century. At one time, some 1800 years ago, way before the rise of Islam, > there were many churches and Christian communities in The Arabian Peninsula, > around Medina and Mecca.No doubt, they used the word Allah in their prayers. > (N.B. Saudi Authorities guard the ruins 24/7, for obvious reasons)> Well, the missionaries are innocent- for > onceâ€¦.> > With deep respect to all,> AJ> > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, "Sanjay Rath" > sanjayrath@ ..> wrote:> >> > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah> > > > Dear Pusya> > > > Who do you > think is to blame? Since when is Jesus called Allah? The missionaries have to > stop doing such dirty tricks to brain-wash poor people. It is a shame that such > a great religion and such a great teacher/son of god Ã¢â‚¬" Jesus Christ, has to be > renamed as Allah by missionaries in Malaysia.> > > > Best > Wishes> > > > Sanjay Rath> > > > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, > New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762> > > > Readings: www.srath.com; > Courses: www.sohamsa. com; Books: www.sagittariuspubl ications. com; Community: > www.. org> > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of > pushyapushya> > 12 January 2010 12:06 AM > > > sohamsa@ .com> > Re: PIL against astrology - > Bhagwanji Raiyani - Janhit Mach> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sanjayji,> > > > Thanks for sharing > your astrological comment on this issue. > > > > Perhaps, the recent > "Allah" issue in Malaysia also have some correlation with such planetary > alignments:> > > > http://news. google.com/ news/search? aq=f <http://news. google.com/ news/search? > aq=f & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> > & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> > > > > Best Wishes,> > Pushya> > > > sohamsa@ .com > <sohamsa% 40. com> , "Sanjay Rath" sanjayrath@ > wrote:> > >> > > > > .>

January 17, 2010

Hare Rama Krisna

Most interesting thread. You said that all the images were destroyed when the Kaaba was takn back. As I understood there is still one image high on the inside of the Kaaba, which is supposed to be some form of Vishnu. Do you know about this?

Also I was curious about the 33 year cycle you mentioned. Is that some astronomical cycle I am not aware of?

Regards

Gordon

January 17, 2010

Dear Members,I had read all the posts regarding the word and its consequences on the use of word Allah , i want to make one simple point that from the pre islamic times when there was idol worship in middle east , Allah was used not to call or name a particular god but as the name of supreme power or deity just as Ishwar in Hindu`s. For Example Shiv is Ishwar but Ishwar is not shiv. When any one calls shiv than a particular form of deity or to say picture of lord shiv comes in our mind and when any one calls Ishwar than the listening person`s mind responses to any god or goddess or deity which he thinks appropriate.Since Christ has been recognise by Muslim`s as the messenger of god and messengers can not be Allah they are Rasuls or gosai`s so it is certainly

objectionable to them BUT as Christ is regarded as god or supreme power among christian `s , and they have been using the word Allah in Middle East from pre islamic time then they have right to call Christ as allah. Regards,

Raju Gupta--- On Sat, 1/16/10, panchasila <panchasila wrote:panchasila <panchasila Re: the Word and it's consequencessohamsa Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 11:48 PM

Hare Rama Krishna,

Dear Steve,

couple of points:

there is no letter "W" in Hebrew, so the Divine Name you refer to (the Tetragrammaton, Unpronouncable Name) is Actually Yd Hh Vv Hh.The numerical value is 26.Extended value is: 40.

This Name is UNTRNSLATABLE! It does't mean "I am thatI shall be etc". If you go back to the Bible and read the Hebrew original, that episode of the "burning bush" and the revelation of God to Moses used a different Divine Name, and that is:

"eheyeh asher eheyeh"- or with correct spelling: AHIH ASHR AHIH. Even this is totally untranslatable, but a rough equivalent is :

I am that I am, that ever was, will be is now and ever becoming.(admittedl y bad translation, I accept)Quabbalists use this Name for coordination with the in and out breathing to access higher states of consciousness.

This Name refers to the Highest Sphere on the Tree of Life, called Kether (the Crown) and in the human body to the Shashrara chakra.The experience associated with this Name is the equivalent of Nirvikalpa Samadhi.It is said, that those who attain this state with the Name shall go forth no more.No return.

With deep respect to allAJsohamsa@ .com, "Stephen K. Sufian" <veda108 wrote:>> Also, it relates to yantras: the Yud is a small letter, like a teardrop, so it's like a bindu. The Heh is large, like a room, so its like the circumference of a yantra; for example, the outer enclosures of Sri Yantra; the Wav is like a straight line, so it's like an axis of a yantra. So we get Yud Heh Wav Heh is like point to whole, axis to whole. > The meaning of Yud Heh Wav Heh was given by God to Moses when Moses asked God "When the people ask me who are, what shall I tell them. God answered Yud Heh Wav Heh, which is commonly translated as "I am that I am" or "I will be that I will be". In other words, only I know Myself and the people need to get attuned to Me and then know Me by direct experience, become One with Me.> > Just like Vedanta.> Steve> > > > >

____________ _________ _________ __> Sanjay Rath sjrath sohamsa@ .com> Fri, January 15, 2010 9:23:11 PM> Re: Re: the Word and it's consequences> > > Thank you so much Steve. I apprecitae this information > as I am interested in learning about their knowledge as it may hold secrets to > ours.> Yud Heh Wav Heh definitely symbolises Swayambhu - > related to Avyakta. I need to get hold of some books of Daniel Matt> Thanks again> > > Stephen K. Sufian > Saturday, January 16, 2010 3:54 AM> sohamsa@ .com > Re: Re: the Word and it's > consequences> > Hare Rama Krishna.> > I think the tack of tracing Hebrew words back to > Sanskrit and Vedic is the best angle. From that standpoint, El might relate to

> Anil.> Not that I'm an expert in Judaism but the term > Yahweh is a British scholar corruption of the four-letter acronym, Yud Heh Wav > Heh . Traditionally, this acronym is used to refer to the unnameable name of > God. When not used in prayer, it is pronounced Ha Shem, which means "The Name". > Kabbalah, which is the Hebrew Vedanta, examines all aspects of the Bible, > especially names of God, from many different angles but especially breaking them > down into their roots. Often the different combinations of letters of the > different names of God were used as meditation devices.> > "Israel" is the name given to Jacob, grandson of > Abraham, the father of Judaism. God appeared to Jacob during the night > (symbolically, during Jacob's ignorance of reality) and wrestled with him till > day (symbolically, the dawn of wisdom). God dislocated Jacob's thigh

(perhaps > this relates to Dhanu, the Rashi of hip, dharma, Guru) but Jacob held fast to > God (pretty straight forward meaning) and prevailed. He did not know who he was > wrestling but when God asked to be released "for day is coming: (wisdom is > dawning)", he refused to release God until he was given a blessing. Symbolism > seems fairly straightforward: God in personal form tests us and we have to dive > into Atma, to Self, in order to pass the test.> > > A common way > people who know Sanskrit look at the name Abraham is "Ab-Ram", out of Ram, or > "A-Brahm, out of Brahm". similar derivations should be possible for Jacob: > Ya-Kov. "Ya" in Sanskrit I've seen translated as "One who", "Kav" might relate > to "Kavi", poetic rishi.> > The traditional > texts of Kabbalah are: Sefer Yetzirah, the Book of Creation; Sefer Bahir ( I not >

sure what > "Bahir means", the Zohar and Tanya. These texts tend > to bring out the symbolic value of the Jewish Bible, the way in which the > different stories relate to the evolution of the human soul from duality to > non-duality, from waking state to Samadhi, Nitya Samadhi and to Brahmi > Chetana.> > Again, I'm not an > expert on these texts or on Judaism but that seems to me to be the most useful > way to look at them and any Hebrew words.> > Sefer Yetzirah, particularly, can be interpreted as > an astrological treatise and it has very specific sections on Astrology: for > example, it has sections describing how different units of time; fire, air, > water, earth; the different aspects of the human physiology and the 12 > constellations were created from the 22 sounds of the Hebrew alphabet which rule > over all that is less than

God.> > Hope this helps. > If you like to explore more, Daniel Matt is a scholar of Kabbalah whose works > I've read a bit of. He is not only a reputed scholar but also his writings and > translations breathe awareness of direct experience of samadhi and higher states > of awareness.> > chabad.org is an organization founded by the > Lubavitcher Rabbi, M Schneerson, about whom thousands of stories are told of his > Jyotish Mati Pragya, his divine perception, ability to see the right course of > action miles and years away. I don't know how much of his attunement is still in > the custodians of his organization but everybody is likely to find someone who > is at a useful level. Sanjay-ji, there may very well be someone in the > organization that combines knowledge of Kabbalah with knowledge of Jewish > Astrology and so might be useful.> >

All these thoughts are a bit away from the original > discussion about Islam and the origin of the word > "Allah" but > "Bismallahir Rahmanir Rahim" the central point is to enhance our knowledge of > Jyotish as a tool to bless ourselves and the world, all of Nature, to return all > of Prakriti to its oneness with Purusha.> Jai Shri > Ram,> Steve> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Sanjay Rath > sjrath (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>> sohamsa@ .com> Thu, January 14, 2010 10:04:52 AM> Re: Re: the Word and > it's consequences> > > Thanks for the link. I found some interesting names out > there.> Yahwah is said to be originally a storm god ....sounds > like Yahmah > Yama> The article states El is derived from > Sumerian Enlil,

God of Wind ...sounds like > 'a-nil' > anila, sanskrit wind god.> Also I read YiÃ…â€ºrÃ„ï¿½Ã¢â‚¬â„¢Ã„"l 'Israel', meaning 'Ã„"l > strives' or 'struggled with ÃƒÂ©l >> Who did Ã„"l struggle with? What is this > struggle all about?> If you can give some links explaining these > --grateful.> > > Freedomji > Thursday, January 14, 2010 7:13 PM> sohamsa@ .com > Re: Re: the Word and it's > consequences> > Hare Rama Krsna> > The word was not taken from Hebrew, it was a word > for god (el, il, ilah) in the middle east long before Abraham was > born.> > Wikipedia does a decent explication of the root http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ El_(deity)> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Sanjay Rath sjrath (AT) hotmail (DOT)

com>> sohamsa@ > .com> Thu, January 14, > 2010 6:23:51 PM> RE: > Re: the Word and it's consequences> > > om gurave > namah> Dear Arpad ji> First Ã¢â‚¬" A very happy Makar Sankranti to you and family and everyone > else in this forum.> Thank you for your most enlightened post.. I agree with your > points.> > Technically you are right in saying that Allah is a word that the > Islamists have taken from Hebrew and therefore they cannot claim any proprietary > rights to it, but then please consider this entire episode from what is good to > maintain some peace among people who do not have the learning and patience of > the academic world to understand all this. Religion has caused some of the worst > wars in this world. People die everyday in the name of one god or

another with > false promises for deliverance. In such a scenario, it is best to accept that > the Islamists will be sensitive about the name Allah as much as Vaishnava would > be with the name Krishna or Shaivites with Shiva and Christians with Jesus. My > statement was made in that light with the hope that people learn to live and let > live. I give another example - In India, the Hindi Bible calls God with the > name Isa or Isvara (please correct me if I am wrong). Now, a statement like > Jesus is the son of Isa or son of Isvara is fine by the Hindu as it seems most > true to him, but saying Jesus is isvara or Jesus is Shiva ...now where is that > going to lead? Orissa started burning. Of what use is all this propaganda if it > is only going to lead to death. If we have to do anything to stop these mindless > deaths, then it must be done, for peace is the single highest

virtue of any > society. Why give weapons in the hands of monkeys who can use it to exploit the > simple ones, and if people are simple or not educated, who is to be blamed for > it? Who is responsible to ensure that the society gets educated? That is another > issue altogether as a lot depends on peoples definition of Government - what do > they want governed in their lives.> Hope you appreciate my point in this light - I have been a Gov. > servant earlier so will have a slightly different viewpoint than pure > academics.> > Now what was there before Christ? Nothing?? Are we to assume that a > people, so lettered and so cultured had nothing before Christ. Then we say it > was Hebrew, but that was the language of the slaves. What was the language and > culture of those before them? Everything changes and we cannot take History as > the guarantor of

anything. It simply records some things but guarantee's > nothing. Therefore, the root of something need not be the reason to claim it as > a right. Even the father who gives birth to a child cannot claim the right over > its life - and cannot take the life away simply because he gave it or caused it > to happen.> > Arpad ji, old converts have finished their small Jihad and are now in > Jihad-e-Akbar, the inner Jihad. The ones you speak of in Malaysia, Pakistan and > such places are *new Muslims* and are too busy with their external Jihad. This > is a manifestation of their confusion. This is true about all *neo-converts* . > They are too busy trying to fight outside battle having forgotten the real > battle that rages inside, the battle for spiritual > enlightenment.> ....> That name calculation to 66 is Brilliant but 33 is not a *prime > number* as

I understand it in Mathematics. Perhaps I am missing something > here.> There is so much unsaid in your mail. I read it a few times and > thought you wanted to say something more. Perhaps it is better that way. Perhaps > later.> > I blame the Clergy on both sides irrespective of them being Islam or > Christian. All they do is make people fight their little battles for free. Oh > yes, they have all these soldiers of religion for free. Poor Malaysians. The > west has brought nothing but darkness into their lives in the name of > religion.> > Best Wishes> Sanjay Rath> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 > 8762> Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa. com; Books: > www.sagittariuspubl ications. com; Community: www.. > org > > sohamsa@ .com

[sohamsa@ . > com] On Behalf Of panchasila> 13 January 2010 05:49 AM > sohamsa@ .com> Re: the > Word and it's consequences> > Hare Rama Krishna, > Dear Sanjay,> While both of us deplore the abhorrent missionary > activities of many if not most of the churches worldwide, the issue in Malaysia > is different.The core of the matter is that Christians want to use the "word" > Allah in their normal prayers and publications. (as they have done now for many, > may years) The reactions of the malay/muslim community is verging on the > hysterical. It has been pointed out, that Malaysian Christians have used this > word for many centuries in Malaya (before Malaysia became a state) in Sabah, > Sarawak and elsewhere.Local, indigenious people in Sarawak (the Dayaks) are > Christians for some

centuries now, even though they retained some of their less > "elegant" activities, i.e. some of them are still head hunters, in the literal > sense of the word (and no doubt good Christians, at least they consider > themselves as such.)They all use the word Allah in their worship. Sadly,churches > are firebombed and burned, all because of the perceived "monopoly" of one group > of people on a word.> But of course we must face the truth however > inconvenient it may be.The word itself if not only pre Islamic but also non Arabic. It may come as a shock to some that this is a borrowed word > from ancient Hebrew,which was (for good reason it seems)found it's way into > Islam.> Those of you who are not familiar with Hebrew language > (and the Quabbalah), please allow me to spell this word as it was and is originally: A (aleph)L(lamed) L (lamed) H (heh).. The > numerical

values for each letters are A=1,L=30,L=30, H= 5, or the total 66! > Please notice the presence of the "prime > number" 33 doubled.There are many mysteries in this Name, but due to lack of > space I will not elaborate on this here.Arabic is a simplified younger cousin > (much younger!!!) of Hebrew, and those of you who can read Arabic letters must > be well aware of this fact.This language rests on ancient Hebrew. So, this word > and it's many variations are actually in the Bible, for at least 3500 years or > more.To claim "copyright" on this Name is preposterous!> Not only that.Christians have used this Name with exact > the same spelling for nearly 2000 years in the middle east and are still using > it without any objections from the majority muslim populations.> Only now, some politicians have discovered in Malaysia > this centuries old usage of local Christians, and

as elections are looming, > trying to "create" an issue out of a non issue.As usual, the masses of ignorant > people follow their leaders.> I am aware that for this letter I might be stoned in > Saudi Arabia, even though I mean no offence to anyone, either Muslims or > Christians.Then again, it may be well to remember, that the ruins of probably > the oldest church (yes church) in the world, is in Saudi Arabia, > just outside of MeccaÃ¢â‚¬Â¦.Nestorian Christians built it in the 3rd century. At one time, some 1800 years ago, way before the rise of Islam, > there were many churches and Christian communities in The Arabian Peninsula, > around Medina and Mecca.No doubt, they used the word Allah in their prayers. > (N.B. Saudi Authorities guard the ruins 24/7, for obvious reasons)> Well, the missionaries are innocent- for > onceÃ¢â‚¬Â¦.> > With deep respect to

all,> AJ> > > > > > sohamsa@ .com, "Sanjay Rath" > sanjayrath@ ..> wrote:> >> > > > > > > > > > om gurave namah> > > > Dear Pusya> > > > Who do you > think is to blame? Since when is Jesus called Allah? The missionaries have to > stop doing such dirty tricks to brain-wash poor people. It is a shame that such > a great religion and such a great teacher/son of god ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬" Jesus Christ, has to be > renamed as Allah by missionaries in Malaysia.> > > > Best > Wishes> > > > Sanjay Rath> > > > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, > New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762> > > > Readings: www.srath.com; > Courses: www.sohamsa. com; Books: www.sagittariuspubl

ications. com; Community: > www.. org> > > > > > > > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On Behalf Of > pushyapushya> > 12 January 2010 12:06 AM > > > sohamsa@ .com> > Re: PIL against astrology - > Bhagwanji Raiyani - Janhit Mach> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sanjayji,> > > > Thanks for sharing > your astrological comment on this issue. > > > > Perhaps, the recent > "Allah" issue in Malaysia also have some correlation with such planetary > alignments:> > > > http://news. google.com/ news/search? aq=f <http://news. google.com/ news/search? >

aq=f & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> > & pz=1 & cf=all & ned=us & hl=en & q=allah> > > > > Best Wishes,> > Pushya> > > > sohamsa@ .com > <sohamsa% 40. com> , "Sanjay Rath" sanjayrath@ > wrote:> > >> > > > > .>

January 17, 2010

Hare Rama KrsnaI asked my Sanskrit guru, and he said that in Sanskrit literature there is no use of the word or root el, but there is mention of 'Allah' by Panini (500B.C.) and this reference is repeated by a fourth century A.D. commentator Kashika. The word is feminine and both define the word to be the same as "Amba"- which means they were in contact with the original Arab (pre-Islamic) inhabitants who were goddess worshippers. Remember that the Kaaba was "taken back" from the goddess worshipers and all the images destroyed by Muhammad who claimed that it was originally been built by Abraham (2,500 yrs previous). The original Kaaba worshipped the Moon god in the center of 360 other deities, no wonder they inherited a totally lunar calendar that cycles through a 33 year cycle.

Namah ShivayaStephen K. Sufian <veda108sohamsa Sent: Sat, January 16, 2010 3:54:11 AMRe: Re: the Word and it's consequences