Guest guest Posted April 19, 2010 Report Share Posted April 19, 2010 Learned members, Will Saturn's third aspect, from the lagna, creates more courage or fear? Malefics aspecting parakrama house give courage. But Saturn is a karaka for fear itself. What will hold true in this case? Thanks Shiv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2010 Report Share Posted April 19, 2010 Rahu is the Karaka of Fear not Saturn, in Classics it is clearly written. Saturn is the karaka of compunction. Saturn gives sorrow and Rahu fear because of wrong doing in past so Rahu leads a person for death by hanging – suicide - but Saturn also leads a person for suicide but it is because of sorrow not fear. sohamsa , " Sun " <theblisswithin wrote: > > Learned members, > Will Saturn's third aspect, from the lagna, creates more courage or fear? > > Malefics aspecting parakrama house give courage. But Saturn is a karaka for fear itself. > > What will hold true in this case? > > Thanks > Shiv > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2010 Report Share Posted April 19, 2010 Hare Rama Krishna Dear Sun, First understand what is the nature of Saturn himself.ie he can be a conscientious hard worker,manager of others, he can be a lazy or cruel, he can be capable of doing austerities and suffer alot. Secondly, it would make a big difference which sign Saturn is in. Is he exalted, or is he in an enemies sign. Is he aspected by benefics, is he in exchange with any other planet. The 3rd house also has many signification, and it would also make a difference if there are any planets in the 3rd house, where is the 3rd lord.? WHat is in the 3rd and 6th from AL? So we would really need more specific info to make conclusions. Best wishes Lakshmi sohamsa , " Sun " <theblisswithin wrote: > > Learned members, > Will Saturn's third aspect, from the lagna, creates more courage or fear? > > Malefics aspecting parakrama house give courage. But Saturn is a karaka for fear itself. > > What will hold true in this case? > > Thanks > Shiv > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 Dear Lakshmiji, Thanks for your response. I was hoping for some general principle. Secifically though, in my case, Saturn is in gemini 12 degrees with ketu at 9 Gemini ( lagna is GEmini 24). Other planets are Moon in 2nd, Sun and Merc in 5th, VEnus in 6th, Rahu in 7th, Jupiter in 8th and Mars in 11th. Other than Rahu there is no aspect on Saturn Going by houses. However the latest software shows numerical values from aspects from Rahu, Sun and Jupiter based on degrees. I do know that Mars aspecting 3rd and 6th creates courage. EVen SAturn in 6th seems to help with patience fighting debts, diseases etc. Was curious how it impacts 3rd which seems more like a " kinetic energy " house and Saturn tends to slow things down. Famous people like G. Bush, OBama, Indira Gandhi have had this and perhaps we can learn how it effected their parakrama ability too. Thanks Shiv sohamsa , " lakshmikary " <lakshmikary wrote: > > Hare Rama Krishna > Dear Sun, > First understand what is the nature of Saturn himself.ie he can be a conscientious hard worker,manager of others, he can be a lazy or cruel, he can be capable of doing austerities and suffer alot. > > Secondly, it would make a big difference which sign Saturn is in. > Is he exalted, or is he in an enemies sign. Is he aspected by benefics, is he in exchange with any other planet. > The 3rd house also has many signification, and it would also make a difference if there are any planets in the 3rd house, > where is the 3rd lord.? WHat is in the 3rd and 6th from AL? > So we would really need more specific info to make conclusions. > Best wishes > Lakshmi > > sohamsa , " Sun " <theblisswithin@> wrote: > > > > Learned members, > > Will Saturn's third aspect, from the lagna, creates more courage or fear? > > > > Malefics aspecting parakrama house give courage. But Saturn is a karaka for fear itself. > > > > What will hold true in this case? > > > > Thanks > > Shiv > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 Thanks for your insights Sunilji. Best Rgds Shiv sohamsa , " sunilbhattacharjya " <sunilbhattacharjya wrote: > > Rahu is the Karaka of Fear not Saturn, in Classics it is clearly written. > > Saturn is the karaka of compunction. > > Saturn gives sorrow and Rahu fear because of wrong doing in past so Rahu leads a person for death by hanging – suicide - but Saturn also leads a person for suicide but it is because of sorrow not fear. > > > sohamsa , " Sun " <theblisswithin@> wrote: > > > > Learned members, > > Will Saturn's third aspect, from the lagna, creates more courage or fear? > > > > Malefics aspecting parakrama house give courage. But Saturn is a karaka for fear itself. > > > > What will hold true in this case? > > > > Thanks > > Shiv > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 PS: AL is in Aquarius in 9th, so this Saturn is 5th from it. sohamsa , " Sun " <theblisswithin wrote: > > Dear Lakshmiji, > > Thanks for your response. I was hoping for some general principle. > Secifically though, in my case, Saturn is in gemini 12 degrees with ketu at 9 Gemini ( lagna is GEmini 24). > Other planets are Moon in 2nd, Sun and Merc in 5th, VEnus in 6th, Rahu in 7th, Jupiter in 8th and Mars in 11th. > Other than Rahu there is no aspect on Saturn Going by houses. However the latest software shows numerical values from aspects from Rahu, Sun and Jupiter based on degrees. > > I do know that Mars aspecting 3rd and 6th creates courage. EVen SAturn in 6th seems to help with patience fighting debts, diseases etc. Was curious how it impacts 3rd which seems more like a " kinetic energy " house and Saturn tends to slow things down. > > Famous people like G. Bush, OBama, Indira Gandhi have had this and perhaps we can learn how it effected their parakrama ability too. > > Thanks > Shiv > > sohamsa , " lakshmikary " <lakshmikary@> wrote: > > > > Hare Rama Krishna > > Dear Sun, > > First understand what is the nature of Saturn himself.ie he can be a conscientious hard worker,manager of others, he can be a lazy or cruel, he can be capable of doing austerities and suffer alot. > > > > Secondly, it would make a big difference which sign Saturn is in. > > Is he exalted, or is he in an enemies sign. Is he aspected by benefics, is he in exchange with any other planet. > > The 3rd house also has many signification, and it would also make a difference if there are any planets in the 3rd house, > > where is the 3rd lord.? WHat is in the 3rd and 6th from AL? > > So we would really need more specific info to make conclusions. > > Best wishes > > Lakshmi > > > > sohamsa , " Sun " <theblisswithin@> wrote: > > > > > > Learned members, > > > Will Saturn's third aspect, from the lagna, creates more courage or fear? > > > > > > Malefics aspecting parakrama house give courage. But Saturn is a karaka for fear itself. > > > > > > What will hold true in this case? > > > > > > Thanks > > > Shiv > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 Hare Rama Krishna Dear 'Sun' (Surya Das Das anu das), Sorry for this long mail, but hopefully you have patience to read it, someone else might get something out of it If you were just to look up SAturn in lagna with nodes, classical references, it might say something about being lazy, cruel, lacking intelligence,being illegitimate . etc because the lagna is the first place you have inate intelligence, it is your physical self.It shows the conditions at your birth what mark is on your head at birth. Saturn can give damage to the body when conjoined nodes especially, or someone with this combo could be a twin.I dont think it is right to just give you a negative answer like that, life isnt so simple, and neither is astrology.You really need to look at everything for a real picture. Answer- Saturn can be many things. But for sure Saturn moves slow. He can be slow and deliberate , or slow, lazy and cruel. Now in your paticuliar chart and being oblivious of the navamsa placements,I want to point out modifying influences. YOu have a Very FINE placement of the 9 lord Saturn in lagna, AND the dispositor of that Saturn in also in a trine. Saturn is doing well, he also is in friends house.BUT he is aspected by Rahu.Debilitated Rahu. So lets see what Nakshatra. Gives some clues.Dont have the extra data , but I assume your nodes are in each others signs.! (BUT ONE IMPORTANT THING IS THAT WE ARE SUPPOSED TO READ the CHART FROM THE STRONGER BETWEEN LAGNA AND MOON. So your Moon in own sign with many planets in kendras is far stronger than your lagna. Try reading your chart with moon in lagna.You will get a completely different view of who you are.) So Saturn (depending on his status) will give some negative mark on your lagna. Saturn is also karaka for many negative things.. lower status in society, worker, manual labor,cripple, outcaste, etc etc. So you cant just read out of some book, you have to use other information. Altering the picture is that he is with Ketu who will also play a part in directing that Saturn. Well, all planets and houses have numerous karaka and parakrama is just one of them. The 3rd house can reveal our inner desires, what makes us fight for something.When SAturn is in lagna it is also affecting the 7th and 10th houses, it will seriously impact relationships and work(karma/actions) The 3rd house is also showing the hands and what weapons we carry in our hands. How we fight, how we express.In past times people usually fight for their king, country and family members. In this regard and to try and to make up your mind about your " courage " look at the 3rd and 6th from the AL. We have Mars in Aires, you are very energetic and seem fierce, like a colonel , military man, in how you exert your energy. Rahu is aspecting the 3rd from AL, so you can use deception,trickery, (or outsmart) of sorts,to get your way. In the 6th from the AL, YOu have Moon in its own sign- you can give,care and heal. The 3rd house from lagna also reveals something about our sex life(or lack of it). We wont go into that. So third house is the sign LEO and he has gone to the 5th house of higer intelligence(discrimination)competitions, creations, entertainment of sorts,mantra, and so on. I dont know your AK, but I assume he has something to do with this Saturn as Saturn is a big player here. Going back to Saturn in lagna, OK, see it isnt JUST Saturns aspect onto the 3rd house. It is the 8/9th lord Saturn who is unfluenced by the nodes who is aspecting the 3rd house. Dont neglect to note that Rahu is also aspecting the 3rd house.BUT so does Sun, mercury,Jupiter, and Moon by rashi dristhi.!There are many ,many people and forces that influence and motivate you to act. **All those planets are also aspecting your AL !(except for Jupiter). So see how many " factors " influence that house of parakrama. (Heh guess what we share many similair(same combinations in our charts) What does all this influence on the 3rd house give you? YOu will have some influence in society, have leadership ability, be cunning, have attention to detial.You could have no younger sibling or one that died or suffers from sickeness or a step brother etc. What things to politians need they need Saturn and Rahu, so they can carefully manipulate when needed, then can tell white lies, or big lies if they need to.Its called 'politics'its called diplomacy( in a nice way)You know how used car salesman are? They can bend the truth to suit their needs. BEst wishes, Lakshmi Do you see yourself as a spiritual person? YOur chart looks like good candidate for spiritual life, however I havent seen navamsa. sohamsa , " Sun " <theblisswithin wrote: > > Dear Lakshmiji, > > Thanks for your response. I was hoping for some general principle. > Secifically though, in my case, Saturn is in gemini 12 degrees with ketu at 9 Gemini ( lagna is GEmini 24). > Other planets are Moon in 2nd, Sun and Merc in 5th, VEnus in 6th, Rahu in 7th, Jupiter in 8th and Mars in 11th. > Other than Rahu there is no aspect on Saturn Going by houses. However the latest software shows numerical values from aspects from Rahu, Sun and Jupiter based on degrees. > > I do know that Mars aspecting 3rd and 6th creates courage. EVen SAturn in 6th seems to help with patience fighting debts, diseases etc. Was curious how it impacts 3rd which seems more like a " kinetic energy " house and Saturn tends to slow things down. > > Famous people like G. Bush, OBama, Indira Gandhi have had this and perhaps we can learn how it effected their parakrama ability too. > > Thanks > Shiv > > sohamsa , " lakshmikary " <lakshmikary@> wrote: > > > > Hare Rama Krishna > > Dear Sun, > > First understand what is the nature of Saturn himself.ie he can be a conscientious hard worker,manager of others, he can be a lazy or cruel, he can be capable of doing austerities and suffer alot. > > > > Secondly, it would make a big difference which sign Saturn is in. > > Is he exalted, or is he in an enemies sign. Is he aspected by benefics, is he in exchange with any other planet. > > The 3rd house also has many signification, and it would also make a difference if there are any planets in the 3rd house, > > where is the 3rd lord.? WHat is in the 3rd and 6th from AL? > > So we would really need more specific info to make conclusions. > > Best wishes > > Lakshmi > > > > sohamsa , " Sun " <theblisswithin@> wrote: > > > > > > Learned members, > > > Will Saturn's third aspect, from the lagna, creates more courage or fear? > > > > > > Malefics aspecting parakrama house give courage. But Saturn is a karaka for fear itself. > > > > > > What will hold true in this case? > > > > > > Thanks > > > Shiv > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 Namah Shivaya Dear Lakshmiji and other learned members who have responded. Many thanks for your messages.I am grateful for your responses. {Lakshmiji, no need to apologize at all. On the contrary, your message has been very insightful for me.} I am trying to answer/address the issues in the order you wrote them. To see more details of navamsha, please feel free to use the birth data: 20th Oct. 1973, Vadodara, Gujrat, India, 23.22 hours ( 11.22 pm) Saturn and Ketu are in Ardra while Rahu is in Moola. If Ardra is ruled by Rahu, then it would be nakshatra parivartana as you point out. What does that imply if I may ask. Your point about choosing between Moon and lagna is well taken. Moon indeed is stonger. However, won't it reveal what the mind wants/sees as opposed to the actual realities of life (lagna)? I do hope my life turns out more the way as seen from Moon lagna! That seems far better Your assumption abouk AK playing a role with Saturn is right again. Mercury is not only the AK but also the dispositor of the lagna/ Saturn. I indeed wanted to go into military seriously (Air Force) but I failed that test. Rahu aspects the 11th and 3rd as you note. This Rahu being debilitated though, what effects would it have. Perhaps it adds not just parakrama but a certain bad variety of it. " There are many ,many people and forces that influence and motivate you to act. > > **All those planets are also aspecting your AL !(except for Jupiter). > > So see how many " factors " influence that house of parakrama. > (Heh guess what we share many similair(same combinations in our charts) " That's quite an insight! One of my drawbacks has been that I am influenced by people a lot. I always thought that was due to strong moon, weak sun and/or Rahu in 6th from moon. But this is a very fresh angle. No wonder I can't find my own locus very often and am left undecided as to what to do. " guess what we share many similair(same combinations in our charts) " I would love to see your chart. Kindly mention the details please. I indeed am the youngest of 3 siblings ( 2 older sisters) , so no one younger to me. As far as lies go, I can once in a while misspeak small little things. But generally when the stakes are high, when it is required and I feel put in a spot, my conscience or maybe my fear of being caught kicks in, and I blurt out the truth. This has caused me harms in life. This punctilious attention to honesty is real or fake, I haven't figured out. But materially my inability to lie has hurt me more. I am rather spiritual to answer the question. My own view point about all of this is rather bleak. I was beaten up, bullied as a kid a lot, and even more psychologically and socially as an adolescent. So I viewed myself like a coward mostly externally and internally and still do for the most part. There were times when I found a sudden courage to fight back, and people tell me I actually am a good fighter, but they were rare. In my family of two older accomplished sisters who were raised more like independent beings by a ultra macho, razor edge angry and violent dad, I actually felt being raised like a girl. So I have never felt at ease with the masculine side of me. It was crushed down by family and outsiders.My life so far is also a story of missed opportunities that happened as I didn't quite feel upto the challenge from fear and sense of not deserving success. I do have a temper though which comes out at the wrong time and mostly verbally. I guess thats the only claim to courage I can have. I have personally thought this was as Mars aspects Moon. I do have some discipline about organizing group affairs on the positive note as you pointed. Hopefully thats one gift of Saturn's third aspect to be cherished. Thanks to Goelji,and all others for their insights and kind comments. Your further comments as you see fit would be very appreciated. Thanks and Regards Shiv sohamsa , " lakshmikary " <lakshmikary wrote: > > Hare Rama Krishna > Dear 'Sun' (Surya Das Das anu das), > Sorry for this long mail, but hopefully you have patience to read it, someone else might get something out of it > If you were just to look up SAturn in lagna with nodes, > classical references, it might say something about being lazy, cruel, lacking intelligence,being illegitimate . etc because the lagna is the first place you have inate intelligence, it is your physical self.It shows the conditions at your birth what mark is on your head at birth. > Saturn can give damage to the body when conjoined nodes especially, or someone with this combo could be a twin.I dont think it is right to just give you a negative answer like that, life isnt so simple, and neither is astrology.You really need to look at everything for a real picture. > Answer- Saturn can be many things. But for sure Saturn moves slow. > He can be slow and deliberate , or slow, lazy and cruel. > Now in your paticuliar chart and being oblivious of the navamsa placements,I want to point out modifying influences. > > YOu have a Very FINE placement of the 9 lord Saturn in lagna, AND the dispositor of that Saturn in also in a trine. Saturn is doing well, he also is in friends house.BUT he is aspected by Rahu.Debilitated Rahu. So lets see what Nakshatra. Gives some clues.Dont have the extra data , but I assume your nodes are in each others signs.! > (BUT ONE IMPORTANT THING IS THAT WE ARE SUPPOSED TO READ the CHART FROM THE STRONGER BETWEEN LAGNA AND MOON. So your Moon in own sign with many planets in kendras is far stronger than your lagna. > Try reading your chart with moon in lagna.You will get a completely different view of who you are.) > > So Saturn (depending on his status) will give some negative mark on your lagna. > Saturn is also karaka for many negative things.. lower status in society, worker, manual labor,cripple, outcaste, etc etc. So you cant just read out of some book, you have to use other information. > Altering the picture is that he is with Ketu who will also play a part in directing that Saturn. > > Well, all planets and houses have numerous karaka and parakrama is just one of them. > The 3rd house can reveal our inner desires, what makes us fight for something.When SAturn is in lagna it is also affecting the 7th and 10th houses, it will seriously impact relationships and work(karma/actions) > > The 3rd house is also showing the hands and what weapons we carry in our hands. How we fight, how we express.In past times people usually fight for their king, country and family members. > > In this regard and to try and to make up your mind about your " courage " look at the 3rd and 6th from the AL. > We have Mars in Aires, you are very energetic and seem fierce, like a colonel , military man, in how you exert your energy. > Rahu is aspecting the 3rd from AL, so you can use deception,trickery, (or outsmart) of sorts,to get your way. > In the 6th from the AL, YOu have Moon in its own sign- you can give,care and heal. > > The 3rd house from lagna also reveals something about our sex life(or lack of it). > We wont go into that. > > > > So third house is the sign LEO and he has gone to the 5th house of higer intelligence(discrimination)competitions, creations, entertainment of sorts,mantra, and so on. > > I dont know your AK, but I assume he has something to do with this Saturn as Saturn is a big player here. > > Going back to Saturn in lagna, OK, see it isnt JUST Saturns aspect onto the 3rd house. It is the 8/9th lord Saturn who is unfluenced by the nodes who is aspecting the 3rd house. > Dont neglect to note that Rahu is also aspecting the 3rd house.BUT so does Sun, mercury,Jupiter, and Moon by rashi dristhi.!There are many ,many people and forces that influence and motivate you to act. > > **All those planets are also aspecting your AL !(except for Jupiter). > > So see how many " factors " influence that house of parakrama. > (Heh guess what we share many similair(same combinations in our charts) > > What does all this influence on the 3rd house give you? YOu will have some influence in society, have leadership ability, be cunning, have attention to detial.You could have no younger sibling or one that died or suffers from sickeness or a step brother etc. > > What things to politians need they need Saturn and Rahu, so they can carefully manipulate when needed, then can tell white lies, or big lies if they need to.Its called 'politics'its called diplomacy( in a nice way)You know how used car salesman are? They can bend the truth to suit their needs. > BEst wishes, > Lakshmi > Do you see yourself as a spiritual person? > YOur chart looks like good candidate for spiritual life, however I havent seen navamsa. > sohamsa , " Sun " <theblisswithin@> wrote: > > > > Dear Lakshmiji, > > > > Thanks for your response. I was hoping for some general principle. > > Secifically though, in my case, Saturn is in gemini 12 degrees with ketu at 9 Gemini ( lagna is GEmini 24). > > Other planets are Moon in 2nd, Sun and Merc in 5th, VEnus in 6th, Rahu in 7th, Jupiter in 8th and Mars in 11th. > > Other than Rahu there is no aspect on Saturn Going by houses. However the latest software shows numerical values from aspects from Rahu, Sun and Jupiter based on degrees. > > > > I do know that Mars aspecting 3rd and 6th creates courage. EVen SAturn in 6th seems to help with patience fighting debts, diseases etc. Was curious how it impacts 3rd which seems more like a " kinetic energy " house and Saturn tends to slow things down. > > > > Famous people like G. Bush, OBama, Indira Gandhi have had this and perhaps we can learn how it effected their parakrama ability too. > > > > Thanks > > Shiv > > > > sohamsa , " lakshmikary " <lakshmikary@> wrote: > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > Dear Sun, > > > First understand what is the nature of Saturn himself.ie he can be a conscientious hard worker,manager of others, he can be a lazy or cruel, he can be capable of doing austerities and suffer alot. > > > > > > Secondly, it would make a big difference which sign Saturn is in. > > > Is he exalted, or is he in an enemies sign. Is he aspected by benefics, is he in exchange with any other planet. > > > The 3rd house also has many signification, and it would also make a difference if there are any planets in the 3rd house, > > > where is the 3rd lord.? WHat is in the 3rd and 6th from AL? > > > So we would really need more specific info to make conclusions. > > > Best wishes > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > sohamsa , " Sun " <theblisswithin@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Learned members, > > > > Will Saturn's third aspect, from the lagna, creates more courage or fear? > > > > > > > > Malefics aspecting parakrama house give courage. But Saturn is a karaka for fear itself. > > > > > > > > What will hold true in this case? > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Shiv > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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