Guest guest Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 Mail to read....  Astrolearner --- On Sat, 14/2/09, Prashant Pandey <praspandey wrote: Prashant Pandey <praspandey Re: [ind. & West. Astrology] Nirayana is actually niradhar (and so is sayana!)! Indian_Astrology_Group_Daily_Digest Saturday, 14 February, 2009, 10:18 PM Please go through my this mail very slowly-slowly as i have put some hard work in drafting it:---- >>>>>>We have taken by precession that we go to Kaliyuga and Capricorn constellations and nks related to it come in deep exaltation in Kaliyuga time but we have not taken that they (precession) are also increasing boundaries of constellation and there is also deep impact of precession on boundaries of constellation. >>>>> I have put 2 JPEG files in folder named Overlapping_ Aqua_Cap_ constellation. In both picture RED colored orbit is of earth and GREEN colored orbit of Moon and rest blue colored orbits of other planet. Please see in background how Capricornus constellation and Aquarius constellation are being overlapped.. Please see……… Now please go through following 2 points:- 1) Now imagine would the Moon every time in Capricornus constellation (or it would be in Aquarius constellation sometime) when it would have been transiting in Capricornus constellation by astrological softwares (Ra-Ke axis plays imp role to track down the real orbit of Mo around Earth as we know),,Sometimes it could have been in Aquarius constellation instead in Capricornus constellation even we see in cap constellation by astrological softwares (not astronomical softwares)… 2) This time our First point of Aries constellation has been shifted near about 24 degrees to Pisces,, and when that point would have been transiting 60-90 degrees (ie in Capricornus constellation astrologically not astronomically) from its first point (ie than shall the boundaries of Capricornus and Aquarius will remain same as we are seeing this time. No,, not at all!! And when the same point would be transiting between 240-270 degrees (ie in Cancer constellation astrologically not astronomically) shall the planets be transiting in Capricornus constellation (in my view Capricornus constellation would be disappeared entirely from our astrology) No,, not at all…..Capricornus constellation would have been disappeared from our astrology that time! Most Imp Point:- Mr' Kaul says correct that Rashi came later by parashara's manipulation and in Vedas, there were only nakshtra(as it is clear cut manipulation of parashara and he tried to take parts of VEDAS to emebedded in predictive astrology as in VEDAS stars have been as God and also as Rishis tried to show the characteristics of planets means how they behave to our earth,,it was not in the capability of Parashara to understand the behaviors of stars,, but yes in the reach of VEDAS authors) means what ever we are seeing that are not because of Rashi(Sign) but because of nakshtra (constellation) .We (Indian and western astrologers) are totally in illusion of Rashi,, infact those are nothing but for ease Parashara created those………. Major tragedy trigger in any country because of any planet transiting in particular star not in Rashi(Sign). Vedas can tell the characteristics of nakshtra and constellation so by that knowledge,, we can correct above those two variations. Mr. Kaul’s many points are very educative,, please go through his files,, those files are really wonderful work…. Regs, Prashant Pandey P.S.:- To understand my above points,, person should have clear cut understanding of astronomy and precession (not Surya Sidhantic Ayanamsa concept�� " there is nothing truth in it) otherwise it is like a bouncer of Andrew Nell or Brett Lee………. --- In Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com, " Prashant Pandey " <praspandey@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Shri Goelji, > There is nothing wrong in talking like Scientist > because still some blunders are there in astrological concepts which > we can rectify as an ENGINEER. Kaulji shows some limitation of > astrology, in fact not only limitation even some space for the > further development, , it depends on person to person how he takes > him but i think we need ppl like Kaulji(even I don’t take lesser > than Kaulji’s capabilities) and in every field we also have best > critics (And for criticizing you need high level of knowledge). Ppl > of the caliber of Maharishis are not around us so those shortcomings > are not being rectified. > > One more mistake:- > > We have taken by precession that we go to Kaliyuga and Capricorn > constellations and nks related to it come in deep exaltation in > Kaliyuga time but we have not taken that they(precession) are also > increasing boundaries of constellation and there is also deep impact > of precession on boundaries of constellation. > > Regs, > Prashant Pandey > > P.S.:- We are not here to discuss and spread the monotonous > astrological concepts with having hand drums (dholak). > > > Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com, Gopal > Goel <gkgoel1937@ > wrote: > > > > Dear Friends, > > My friend Mr. Kaul is very intelligent and well read person.. > > He talks like scientists, but creative developmental and economical > > construction activities are the work of ENGINEERS. > > It also requires wisdom and lot of prescience. > > It is pity even after such a vast study of scriptures he is enable > to understand > >  the massage of Parasara and scriptures even a little bit. > > Let God grant him some wisdom ans show him some ray of light , > which is > > not possible without his blessings, > >  G.K.GOEL > > Ph: 09350311433 > > Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR > > NEW DELHI-110 076 > > INDIA > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Prashant Pandey <praspandey@ > > > Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com > > Sunday, 8 February, 2009 8:42:52 PM > > Re: [ind. & West. Astrology] Nirayana is actually > niradhar (and so is sayana!)! > > > > > > Dear Shri Kaulji, > > Namaskar! > > > > I have asked you not to put Shri before my name, please don’t > put.... > > > > You have written following paragraph:- > > > > >>>>Nakshatras vis-a-vis the nirayana rashis are also square pegs > in > > round holes! For this, pl. see npj.doc, which I am requesting Shri > > Prasad Pandey to upload from HinduCalendar forum. > > As to what type of calendar India was using till the advent of > > Grahalaghava, will be evident from npj3.doc, and I am requesting > Shri > > Prasad Pandey to upload that document also on this forum.>>>> > > > > Which is not only correct but very very correct. > > ((Square pegs in round holes!)) Very correct point.... > > > > If you know limitations of astrology than definitely you would be > > bond of astrology and you would be well aware abt all concepts, > > there is no doubt abt it...There is one saying in Hindi for those > > who attacked you:- “Bandar kya jaanay adrak ka swadâ€â€¦he he he he > he > > he… > > > > Now i should let you know what i want to say and how I endorse > your > > point (I can only endorse as we know that through astronomy and > > anybody can read from wikipedia,,most trusted web-portal), ,i > would > > like to say by one practical example:- > > > > Jack Nicholson > > Apr 22,1937 (Thu) > > 11:00:53 > > Neptune City, New Jersey > > > > In above example Ve is at 01:45 degree in Ar constellation. .. > > And Ve goes for exaltation in pisces and around at 27-28 degree... > > One star of Pisces Constellation is having following coordinates: - > > > > Alpha Piscium > > Constellation Pisces > > Right ascension 02h 02m 02.8s > > Declination +02° 45' > > > > Now if Ve is exalted at 27.5 degree in Pisces than Venus should > > remain in Pisces constellation even we see its degree as 01:45 > > degrees in Aries.... > > > > So this is the reason that Jack Nicholson was very very famous > actor. > > > > So Ve in his chart is not in Ar constellation instead it is in > > pisces even at one glance it is looking in Aries constellation by > > all software which dealt with astrology not by astronomy(in > > astronomical software we can easily see that). > > > > (Why i want to make Ve in pisces constellation, ,ppl can > understand > > as Ve had directed his whole life and so atleast it should be AK > not > > DK in Jack Nicholson’s details) > > > > So your point is very correct i.e.:- > > > > “Nakshatras vis-a-vis the nirayana rashis are also square pegs in > > round holes!†> > > > I think this situation should remain valid only for Ve and > sometimes > > for Mo. But still i can not say sure for other planets. > > > > This point struck me when i read your those lines... > > > > Thanks again for your awesome research!!! > > > > Those points are also in Vedas (means size of constellations) so I > > would say you are great ‘HINDU GURU’. > > > > Regs, > > Prashant Pandey > > > > Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou > ps.com, " Avtar > > Krishen Kaul " <jyotirved@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > Shri Hari Mallaji, > > > Namaskar! > > > <I find the necessity of both sayan and the nirayan systems.> > > > Vedic calendar was aligned to a seasonal year, with the months > as > > > Madhu, Madhava etc., which were aligned to four cardinal points > > viz > > > the two equinoxes and solstices. > > > For Vedic nakshatras, the Vedas have nothing to do with any > Mesha, > > > Vrisha etc. rashis either! > > > > > > As there are no rashis in the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha or > any > > > astronomical wrok till the advent of the Surya Sidhana of Maya > the > > > mlechha, there was no confusion like sayana and nirayana etc. > etc. > > > with the latter having hundreds of ayanamshas already and now > > another > > > one viz. Hari Malla ayanamsha of +6? degrees joining the fray! > > > > > > Rashis are actually a creation of jyotishis, by jyotishis and > for > > > jyotishis, Greco-Chaldean ones to start with which were lapped > up > > by > > > Hindu jyotishis under the impression that they were " revealed " > by > > > none other than Surya Bhagwan, as claimed by Maya the mlechha in > > his > > > Surya Sidhana! > > > > > > Ayanamsha myth is a creation by Hindu jyotishis of around 15th > > > century AD to somehow delinkg the Hindu calendar from seasons > > > completely. This will be evident from a separate post to Dr. R. > N. > > > Iyengar, since we do not find any mention of ayanamsha disease > > either > > > till the time of Munjala, and that also was in an entirely > > contrary > > > manner to what is happening today! Munjala (tenth century AD) > > wanted > > > the Surya Sidhanta and Aryabhati etc. longitudes to be > compatible > > > with the visible phenomena and that is why he advised to add > > > ayanamsha to Surya Sidhanta longitudes at the rate of one arc > > minute > > > per year from Shaka 444 AD. Bhaskara-II (12 century AD) had also > > > done the same thing! In otehr words, they wanted that we must > > follow > > > so called Sayana Rashis! > > > > > > Nakshatras vis-a-vis the nirayana rashis are also square pegs in > > > round holes! For this, pl. see npj.doc, which I am requesting > Shri > > > Prasad Pandey to upload from HinduCalendar forum. > > > As to what type of calendar India was using till the advent of > > > Grahalaghava, will be evident from npj3.doc, and I am requesting > > Shri > > > Prasad Pandey to upload that document also on this forum. > > > > > > If at all you want to use any rashis for HinduCalendar, they > have > > to > > > be so called sayana, unrelated to naksahtras, since all the > > puranas > > > and the sidhantas have talked of nothing but Sayana rashis. Pl. > > see > > > 1999b.doc and BVB6.doc for the same. As rashis are a Greek > > imposition > > > on Indian ethos, I would like to come out of that thraldom now! > > > Philosphical (mythological? ) dimensions like nakshatras being > > satya > > > yuga/satya loka etc. and must therefore be clubbed with nirayana > > > rashis will muddle the issue of calendar reform to the extent of > > > beyond return, as it is already in a mess! > > > > > > How incompatible sayana rashis are with nakshatras will be > evident > > > from Vasishtha.exe program on HinduCalendar forum, through which > > you > > > can calculate longitudes (both Sayana and Lahiri nirayana), > > > latitutdes, declinations and RA etc. of nakshatras from 10000 > BCE > > to > > > 12030 AD! > > > If we really want to streamline the Hindu calnear in accordance > > with > > > the Vedas and Puranas, we have to eliminate rashis completely > and > > for > > > naksahtras, we have to go by some independent measure, instead > of > > > linking them to any rashi whatsoever. > > > With regards, > > > A K Kaul > > > > > > > > > Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com, > Hari > > > Malla <harimalla@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Mr.Kaul and?Prashantaji, > > > > Namaskar!As you would be knowing by now I am promoting the > > > coordinated system of Sayan and Nirayan, I find the necessity of > > both > > > sayan and the nirayan systems.After the Vedic yuga, we have come > a > > > long way in calrifyig and explaining the essence of the Vedas to > > the > > > society.Say the puranas, these have also been part of our > > culture.All > > > these explantions have been made in the form of bothrashi and > > > nakshyatras. They are a help to explain to the common folks.In > fact > > > these are scientific basis on which our religion and philosophy > > have > > > been based and explained.Thus my contention is that both the > sayan > > > concept and the nirayan concepts have to be accepated now > instead > > of > > > going back to our root in the Vedas only and dicarding all our > > > developments in the later centuries. > > > > Why is nirayan necessary? It is time I expressed what?I > > understand > > > to be true.Nirayan concept gives us the idea of the fixed star > > world > > > which is the true cosmos.This has been termed as Satya lok.To > > reach > > > this world,?is our goal-?experience of?the fixed Satya lok.So it > > is > > > necesssary to keep the idea of nirayan to describe Satya > lok.From > > the > > > nirayan concept we have also developed the concept of > > manwantars.In > > > each manwantar, the ayan and vishuvat remain the same and the > > change > > > of these occur only when we go to another manwantar.After one > > kalpa > > > we go back to the original ayan and vishuvat.This is a new > > > interpretaion of kalpa with the 14 manawantars of 27 degrees > > each.27 > > > degrees represent the sidereal lunar month with 27 > naksyatra.Thus > > > there is no problem if our astrology remains nirayan for a > period > > of > > > 2150 years, the time taken for precession to travel one full > moon > > > zone or one new moon zone, of say 30 degrees.These > > > ideas??seem ?unconventinal now > > > > because we have forgotten our lunar roots. > > > > While we change the mawantars, during our?calender reform, we > > must > > > use the concept? of sayan otherwise our shatras are again in > > > trouble.To fulfill the idea of 'Dharmo rakshyati rakshit, we > have > > to > > > use the sayan concept and shift the names of both the rashis and > > > nakshyataras by 30 degrees so that our dharma shatras remain the > > same. > > > > Sorry for giving a different opinion, but it has to be > > considered > > > from all aspects to make our calender reform fruitful and > > > successful.Thank you. > > > > Sincerely yours, > > > > Hari Malla > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > Prashant Pandey <praspandey@ > > > > > Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com > > > > Monday, February 2, 2009 11:09:59 AM > > > > [ind. & West. Astrology] Nirayana is actually > niradhar > > > (and so is sayana!)! > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Shri Kaulji, > > > > Namaskar! > > > > > > > > >>>>>I am, in the meantime, awaiting a response to my post > > > regarding > > > > my views that nirayana is actually niradhar (and so is > sayana!)! > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > If you are pointing towards one of my mistake in one of the > mail > > > > than i accept it, yes it was a mistake in my mail that i had > > > written. > > > > > > > > But at least some names we have to give to those 30-30 degree > > > > segments which have been originated from constellation ie > > tropical > > > > 30-30 degree segments so i took terminology of western > > astrology. > > > > Yes in fact terminology adopted by western system doesn’t > sound > > > > convincing. > > > > > > > > But in that system - section of sign aspect (sign aspect) is > > much > > > > broader than sidereal, in other words it works only there ie > in > > > > tropical. > > > > Please don’t argue on any of my points as i still know > mistakes > > > in > > > > above lines like,, what is 30-30 degree segments meanwhile > > > > constellations are of different length and planets don’t > transit > > > > through those constellation except Moon (as constellation belt > > is > > > > formed by + - 6 degree from the plane of ecliptic.) > > > > > > > > Thanks for pointing out my mistake. > > > > > > > > Regs, > > > > Prashant Pandey > > > > > > > > Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou > > > ps.com, " Avtar > > > > Krishen Kaul " <jyotirved@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Shri Prashant Pandeyji, > > > > > Namaskar! > > > > > Regarding calendar reform there are quite a few files, > > postings > > > > and > > > > > cross-postings from other forums on HinduCalendar forum. And > > > > nobody > > > > > in that forum has any objection if his messages are cross- > > posted > > > > to > > > > > other forums. > > > > > Since the posts to IAGDD forum are moderated, I would not > like > > to > > > > do > > > > > any cross-posting myself because of the inherent coflict > > between > > > > the > > > > > real Vedic calendar and the artificial Vedic astrology. > > However, > > > > if > > > > > you feel that any post or any files in that forum would > cater > > to > > > > the > > > > > interests of the members of this forum and generate some > > useful > > > > > contribution (not financially but inteleectually! ) to > > calendar > > > > > reform, pl. post that mail/file to this forum yourself. > > > > > I am, in the meantime, awaiting a response to my post > > regarding > > > my > > > > > views that nirayana is actually niradhar (and so is sayana!)! > > > > > With regards, > > > > > A K Kaul > > > > > --- In > > > > Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou > > ps.com, " Prashant > > > > > Pandey " <praspandey@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Shri Hari Malla Ji, > > > > > > Namaskar! > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>I am happy to learn of your interest to work on the > > issue > > > of > > > > > > calender refrom. I am a retired engineer and as my > pastime,? > > I > > > > have > > > > > > worked for calender reform in Nepal for some years now.? I > am > > > > > > basically not in astrology, but due to my interest in > > > philsophy, > > > > I > > > > > > have been involved in religious astrology. I have had the > > > > > > opportunity to work in this field with experienced people. > > > > > > We now feel we have found the clue to practical Hindu > > calender > > > > > > reform in Nepal and India.>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir definitely there should be reform in our calendar > > according > > > > to > > > > > > Vedas. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>I also want to know about your personal background. > Are > > you > > > > > > teaching there in IIT, Kanpur? Is?your ancestor? from > Kumaon > > or > > > > > > Garwal? How?have you? been involved with astrology?>> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > No i am not proff at IIT-Kanpur. No,, my ancestors were > not > > > from > > > > > > Kumaon or Garhwal.I am just a learner of astrology (infact > > not > > > > > > serious,, dangerous learner,, he he he he he) > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>We?can surely share what?we know in the field of > > calender > > > > > reform > > > > > > and religious astrology. Perhaps we both willl benefit > from > > > each > > > > > > other. What do you know of the various reform proposals? > > Have > > > > you > > > > > > read of my?proposal for?'coordinated system of calender > > > reform'? > > > > in > > > > > > the Hindu calender reform website? Please read my > proposal? > > and > > > > I > > > > > > would be happy to answer any question,?I can answer.>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > I will read your proposals then will come with some > > confusions > > > > if i > > > > > > get. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regs, > > > > > > Prashant Pandey > > > > > > > > > > > > Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou > > ps.com, > > > Hari > > > > > > Malla <harimalla@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. Prsashant Pandey ji, > > > > > > > I am happy to learn of your interest to work on the > issue > > of > > > > > > calender refrom. I am a retired engineer and as my > pastime,? > > I > > > > have > > > > > > worked for calender reform in Nepal for some years now.? I > am > > > > > > basically not in astrology, but due to my interest in > > > philsophy, > > > > I > > > > > > have been involved in religious astrology. I have had the > > > > > > opportunity to work in this field with experienced people. > > > > > > > We now feel we have found the clue to practical Hindu > > > calender > > > > > > reform in Nepal and India. It is my pleasure to have got > > your > > > > > > invitation to join your group. I also want to know about > > your > > > > > > personal background. Are you teaching there in IIT, > Kanpur? > > Is? > > > > your > > > > > > ancestor? from Kumaon or Garwal? How?have you? been > involved > > > > with > > > > > > astrology? > > > > > > > We?can surely share what?we know in the field of > calender > > > > reform > > > > > > and religious astrology. Perhaps we both willl benefit > from > > > each > > > > > > other. What do you know of the various reform proposals? > > Have > > > > you > > > > > > read of my?proposal for?'coordinated system of calender > > > reform'? > > > > in > > > > > > the Hindu calender reform website? Please read my > proposal? > > and > > > > I > > > > > > would be happy to answer any question,?I can answer. Thank > > you. > > > > > > > Sincerely yours, > > > > > > > Hari Malla > > > > > > > Prashant Pandey <praspandey@ > > > > > > > > Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou > ps.com > > > > > > > Friday, January 23, 2009 9:07:59 AM > > > > > > > [ind. & West. Astrology] Re: Dec 12 or 21 as > > Doom's > > > > Day > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Shri/Smt. Harimalla Ji, > > > > > > > Thanks for joining the group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are most welcome!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you also having interest in astrology?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have to ask many questions related to hindu festivals > > and > > > > > > > Calendar.Hope i will get good company from you.In coming > > time > > > > i > > > > > > want > > > > > > > to work on it,, hope grp would be benefitted from your > > > > knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is nice to hear that you are from Nepal!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regs, > > > > > > > Prashant Pandey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > > Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou > > > > > > ps.com, " harimalla@ .. " > > > > > > > <harimalla@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Smt.. sushma , > > > > > > > > My opinion on this matter is that such rumours is all > > trash > > > > on > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > face of it. Such rumours was spread on the year 2000 > > also. > > > > > > > > the basis for such rumours is a parallel drawn to our > > story > > > > of > > > > > > > > ramayan and mahabharat where we hear of 12 years of > > > banabaas > > > > > and > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > thirteenth year of Gupat baas. Gupta baaas is also > > > > considered > > > > > to > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > pralaya etc. this is all psychological story and > nothing > > is > > > > > > there > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the external world. > > > > > > > > Sincerely yours, > > > > > > > > Hari Malla > > > > > > > > In Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou > > > > > > ps.com, " Prashant > > > > > > > > Pandey " <praspandey@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Smt. Sushma Ji, > > > > > > > > > Some members are very good in basics of > > > > > > > > Calendar,, > > > > > > > > > they can answer you,, if they have time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will try to answer you with in 1-2 weeks but need > to > > > > surf > > > > > > > > related > > > > > > > > > documents,,so it requires some time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good topic for good exercise,, it will also clear > away > > > > many > > > > > > > > confusions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regs, > > > > > > > > > Prashant Pandey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou > > > > > > ps.com, " bhagvatjee " > > > > > > > > > <bhagvatjee@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All Astrologers, > > > > > > > > > > Jaya Siyaa Raam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have heard that the Vaidik Calendar is ending on > > 21st > > > > (or > > > > > > > > 12th) of > > > > > > > > > > Dec 2012 and also the Mayan Calendar too is ending > > on > > > > the > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > day? > > > > > > > > > > Even Nostradamus has also predicted this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is this Hangaamaa of these 12th or 21st > > December > > > > 2012 > > > > > > > > dates? > > > > > > > > > Can > > > > > > > > > > any Expert from this group tell us about this > > > > prediction? > > > > > > > > > > With regards > > > > > > > > > > Sushma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Download prohibited? 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