[Ind. & West. Astrology] Re:Controversy on Tropical and Sidereal Zodiac and Hindu festivals

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr Goel,

I am happy to learn that you are also an engineer.So am I.I feel if we two

engineers are serious, we can solve the dispute pretty well in India and Nepal.I

graduated as Mechanical engineer in India from BIT, Ranchi in 1971.In Nepal we

are making good progress in the matter of calender reform.

I would like to discuss the complexity of the matter involved in calender

reform.I feel if the basics are known, it is not so complex as we think.Mr. Kaul

tries to oversimplify the matter.Even with the rashis and the nakshyatras system

intact and maintaining the nirayan system, I feel, we can solve the calender

reform problem.I have got the hint for slution from two sources.

To maintain the nirayan system, Balagangadhar Tilak has suggested to shift the

festivals one full month every time the ayanamsa reaches 30 degrees.This has

been dealt with by Shankar Balakrishna dixit in Bharatiya Jyotsh too.SBD himself

subborts the sayan system saying it is not bossible to change the names

mentioned in Dharma shastras.

Another source of the solution is The custom in Nepal prevalent since some 400

years back,by shifting the lunar solstices by one full moon backwards. You

would be knowing that the lunar dates are also sidereal as they are controlled

by nirayan sankrantis.

Thus I am in favour of keeping up the nirayan system, as it is our culture to do

so.In fact that is the very backbone of our religion too.This is proved by the

fact that we get liberated by bathing in the Ganga river. Ganga river or  Akash

Ganga only signifies the circle of nakshyatra one sees while one achieves gyan

yoga.Gyan yoga is expemlified by Ganga( circle of nakshyatras) resting on the

matted hair of Shiva.

I have brobosed to shift the names of the rashis and nakshyatras by the sayan

system subborted by Shankar Balalkrishna dixit.

With these three concets,i.e. shifting the festivals one full month in

accordance with the full moon zone,shifting the nirayan sankrantis also by 3o

degrees by calling the bresent MEEN sankranti as the new ebocal Mesh sankranti

and keebing the nirayan system for another 15 to twenty centuries to keeb ub the

idea of fixedness of stars and shifting the names of rashis and nakshyatras

thirty degrees by the sayan system during reformation, it it is bossible to

solve the calender reform broblem without giving ub our brevalent nirayan

culture.

In this way I brobose to satisfy both the sayan vadis and the nirayan vadis.I

feel with the new ayanamsa only 6 degrees the accuracy of the astrologers will

also be increased to say seventy bercent.blease give your obinion on the above

brobosal.

Thanks and regards.

Hari Malla

 

 

 

 

________________________________

Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937

Indian_Astrology_Group_Daily_Digest

Monday, March 23, 2009 9:31:14 AM

[vedic astrology] Re: [ind. & West. Astrology] Re:Controversy on

Tropical and Sidereal Zodiac and Hindu festivals

 

 

Dear Hari Malla,

Festivals are celebrated for many reasons:

1 To remember an event

2. On account of traditions in particular area and communities

3. According to the instruction Guru or preacher of a particular sect

4. Instruction given in scriptures

I suggest , you may study 'Bhartiya Joytish Ka Itihas ' authored by famous

mathematician and head of department of mathematics late Dr. Gorakh Prasad.

Then you will realise the things are not that simple as advocated by Mr. Kaul.

Since the period of Veda's , lot of knowledge was further added..

The method of erecting nativities based on zodiac signs had taken final shape

some where in 2000BC.Originally , BPHS and Vishnu puran may have come in

exhitance probably in 1800.BC, as Vishunu puran clearly mentions that V.E.Point

was in 1st pada of Nakshatra Kritika.

I am, pesonally , studing , teaching and practising astrology based on sidereal

system,

since about 25 years ,it is working wonderfully well. I am an engineer and do

not

believe in dogmas.I know Tropical system very well. But dasa system based on

Nakshatras and yogas are effective tools of Indian Astrology. If some one do not

wish or determined not to understand our ancient astrological scriptures, who

can help them.

I am reading my self Upnishads , Purans and our ancient scriptures and also

taking

discourses in my locality since 1995 twice a week..Things are crystal clear to

me.

 

I must answer one vital aspect , why astrologers ,following different systems

are able to predict the events about 55 to 60% correctly .The reason is simple ,

the angular arc between the planets and ascending degrees will always be same in

a nativity.

I do not know why Mr. Kaul is so worked up. In this changing world everything

always and all the time keep on changing.

Regards,

 

G.K.GOEL

Ph: 09350311433

Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR

NEW DELHI-110 076

INDIA

 

____________ _________ _________ __

Hari Malla <harimalla@rocketmai l.com>

Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com

Monday, 23 March, 2009 5:21:13 PM

Re: [ind. & West. Astrology] Re:Controversy on Tropical and Sidereal

Zodiac and Hindu festivals

 

Dear Mr. Goel,

I am tempted to add a few words here.Mr. AKK is trying to remind the wrong dates

of festivals, the hindus are now celebrating. This religion also belongs to the

astrolgers.Do you not think that the astrolgers need also to see how the

festivals are out of sequence? If Mr. Kaul is right from his point of view , do

you not think that the astrolgers should cooperate with him to set the festivals

right.?

I feel a middle path is possible so that both the astrolgeres and Mr. AKK are

satisfied..It is not good to give a deaf ear to him because he is talking of a

common cause.

Thank you.

Regards,

Hari Malla

 

____________ _________ _________ __

Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@ . co.in>

Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com; AstroStudents_

Vedic@ s.com; vedic astrology; sohamsa

<sohamsa@ s .com>

Cc: neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@ gmail.com>; prince <A_Foresight_ Prince_of_

India_Available>; Sanjay Rath <guruji (AT) srath (DOT) com>; Sreenadh

<sreesog >

Monday, March 23, 2009 4:40:35 PM

[ind. & West. Astrology] Re:Controversy on Tropical and Sidereal Zodiac

and Hindu festivals

 

Dear Friends,

Why are we so worked up on these issues?

A good whenever is done , bring piece and harmony in society,

if it is done in good mahurta , even the better.

All over the world , countless people do not either know their

birth particulars are they are not correctly known to them.

Do any body can imagine , that such people will go to hell

as they are not able to choose proper Mahurta? The answer is

absolute no.

Have we forgotten the art of putting our views in polite and civilised manner.

Is our ego so high , that if others do not agree with some person's views, the

other persons starts shaking in their pent and using harsh language.Let all of

us stop this.

At present , ninety percent panchang makers in India are constructing

their panchangs based on tha basic data obtained from positional Astronomical

centres , and according to the requirements of Dharm Gurus and large

astrological community. The main features are:

1.Plenary positions are Geocentric

2. Citra (Spica 16) pakchhiya Ayanamsa- this means that Sidereal mean

longitude of this star is considered as 180 degree.

3 The longitudes of planets are taken correct as observed by modern

astronomy.

4. Rising sign is calculated based on Sidereal Time.

 

The savants who suggest the adoption of Tropical signs or planets according to

old Siddhantic methods are now in poor minority in India,

no amount of anger or harsh words will help.

Regards,

 

G.K.GOEL

Ph: 09350311433

Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR

NEW DELHI-110 076

INDIA

 

____________ _________ _________ __

Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com>

indian_astrology_ group_daily_ digest@grou ps.com

Monday, 23 March, 2009 12:21:01 PM

[ind. & West. Astrology] Fwd: Please - Let us not go astray..Focussed

Answers Please.Re:

 

, " Avtar Krishen Kaul " <jyotirved@.

...> wrote:

 

Shri Pankaj Dharji,

Namaskar!

<Now tell me if satrun is 29. x degreee in Aqu in year 66, 12 of NOv ...

Then what does

a)lahari's ayamsa say

b) Rams ayamsa say

c) your suggested ayamsa say..ephemeris. .

what are the various varaitions in the degree>

 

As far as the Vedas are concerned, there are no Rashis, nor is there any mention

of Shani therein. So the speculation about longitude of Satrun in various

astrological signs is not Vedic. There are only Madhu, Madhava etc. months in

the Vedas and I have yet to hear anybody claiming that he " saw Saturn in Madhu

or Madhava " or so on.

 

Since the Vedic calendar has to be based on the Vedas and the Vedanga Jyotisha

we can safely say that for the purpose of Vedic calendar, it is immaterial and

irrelevant as to where Saturn is on which date!

 

Now coming to Puranas, again the position of Saturn vis-a-vis the Pauranic

calendar is immaterial and irrelevant since there is no mention of any such fad

that any festival has to be decided on the basis of the position of Saturn or

Mars etc. in some or the other rashi!

 

Astronomically, since the zodiac itself is an imaginary belt stretching around 9

deg. North and South of the ecliptic, to divide it into further twelve equal

divisions is not an astronomical fact either. Thus Mesha etc. rashis are twelve

imaginary equal divisions of an imaginary belt created by predictive astrologers

for their own convenience! It can start from any imaginary point depending on

the likes and dislikes of different ayanamshawalas, with the result that Saturn

can be in any rashi on any day depending on what Ayanamsha you choose!

 

Thus for the Vedic festivals, it is immaterial and irrelevant astronomically as

well as according to the Vedas and Puranas as to in which imaginary sign the

planets like Mangal, Shani etc. are on what date.

 

< BTW- a group of astrologers have won the case IN SC to my knowldge to patcise

astrology- as against your assertions in KP forums..that they should be

jailed..etc. ...>

 

The headline on page 8 of the Hindusan Times of March 21, 2009, was:

" Astrologer, not father, was first to rape girl " .. It continues further, " The

document says that Rathode (astrolger) had told her (the elder daughter who was

a minor then), 'have sexual relations with your father for prosperity of the

household'.. ...a few months ago, Anjana (mother) had, with her husband's

approval, taken her younger daughter (now 17) to Rathod's (astrologer' s) house,

where she was raped by Rathod (astrologer) for the first time... "

And this is what the headline on page 12 of the HT of March 22, 2009, screams,

" What's done is done, let's close the case: accused(astrologer) to cops " . It

continues further, " Whenever the Chauhans (i.e. the rapist father, and the

abetting mother) faced any problems they would call up Rathod (astrologer) , who

would suggest that doing this act (having sex with his daughters) on a

particular day would bring spiritual enhancement and prosperity to the family

and their problems would be solved " It continues further (Chauhan, the rapist

father, said) " meri wife usko (jyotishi ko) pasand ayee to main kya karoon " ( " if

the astrologer like my wife and had sex with her, what can I do " ).

You must have also read the headlines in papers a few months back that an

astrologer had suggested to a gentleman as " remedial measure " for his sickness

to " marry a bitch " and the gentleman concerned did so gladly! A proper lagna was

performed! There were pictures of the " gentelman " and also his " bitch-bride " in

papers all over the country!

Is that the " Vedic astrology " that has been allowed to be practised by the SC?

Pl. get it clarifed from the SC first, before flaunting such judgements!

That is why I say " Vedic astrologers " have tamoguni budhi! They are not seeing

the incalculable damage that such pernicious beliefs are doing to the Hindu

dharma as a whole! All they are worried about is the famous saying, " murda janat

ravad ya ba dozakh, mulara nan-o-paneer " . You must have heard it in Kashmir,

but let me translate it for you, " It is immaterial to the Mullah whether the

departed soul goes to hell or heaven. What is material for him is his bread and

butter " . And of course, " Vedic astrologers " have not " reincarnated " as

" Vamadevas " and " Parasharas " for nothing! There are no free lunches!

Your pleading for " Vedic astrology " also strengthens my argument that " Vedic

astrologers " have tamoguni budhi and that is why they are reading every shastra,

and maybe even SC judgement, upside down!

 

My only request to " Vedic astrolgers " is that they should not meddle with the

Hindu calendar, since they are making all the Hindus, including you, celebrate

all their festivals and muhurtas on days as desired by " almighty " Lahiriwalas

instead of by the Vedas and Puranas, and thereby, instead of conferring any

benefits on the Hindu society, they are killing their own dharma themselves.

Regards,

AKK

 

, " Pom " <pankajdhar@ > wrote:

>

> " And till then, LET OUR FESTIVALS SUFFER from " Lahiri " curse. In other words

" let the dharma-shastra go to hell, we must have correct predictions fron

incorrect data " will continue to be the " slogan " and the stand of " Vedic

astrologers " . "

>

> Also " we must have correct predictions fron incorrect data "

>

> You say it in my opinion becoz of your lack of knowledge of certain types of

mathematcis. .ale you would not have made such a statement..

>

> Dear Sri kaul saheb- if we have agreed on maths-let su work with it.

>

> If you are interested to discuss it un ambiguously- most welcome...you could

carry on with your " great " thought..

>

> Let us FOCUS on ONE THING AT A TIME...

>

> Now tell me if satrun is 29. x degreee in Aqu in year 66, 12 of NOv ...

>

> Then what does

> a)lahari's ayamsa say

> b) Rams ayamsa say

> c) your suggested ayamsa say..ephemeris. .

>

> what are the various varaitions in the degree

>

> and let us see the variations in deductions/interpre tetions drawn..as per VA-

I mean how and in how many instances the probelm in deduction reading could be.

>

> PLEASE SPECIFIC ANSWERS...

>

> Plesae let us not WASTE TIME here and there in ambiguous discussion.. .

>

> We will take each point seperately.. .(Like mathematcial basis..of vedas...)

>

> BTW- a group of astrologers have won the case IN SC to my knowldge to patcise

astrology- as against your assertions in KP forums..that they should be

jailed..etc. ...

>

> It might work other wise sir...- let us use " freedom " constructively. ...

>

>

>

> Thanks.

>

> Regards,

> Punkajj

>

> , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " <jyotirved@>

wrote:

> >

> > Shri Pankaj Dharji,

> > Namaskar!

> >

> > < Due to paucity of time and relevance- if we could please be focussed and

if the need be to remove ambiguity on matters 9also avoid unnecessary

discussions) let us use mathematics on a 1-O-1 basis to prove anything

conclusively. >

> > The most suitable way for doing so is that you kindly take time out and go

through the entire article " Vedic astrologers read dharashastras upside down " to

refute the points 1-O-1.

> >

> > <b) The person whom you are accusing to character assasinate you or giving

in your information- told me you were planning to make him a treasurer it seems

of your jantri...>

> > I stopped publishing my " Jantri " (?) since 2001. It never had that fabulous

sales that I would have to appoint some treasurer for the same! As such, I do

not know, who that " treasurer " is, or what that " treasuer " is talking about and

why!

> >

> > <I know him fairly well...he has no motivation provavble to go against

you..>

> > Nobody is against me! All they are against is my exposing that " Vedic

astrology " is anything but Vedic!

> >

> > <c) Your claim to be very " secular " , but in one of your writings- you had

insited on the fact that your " impeccable " credentails are that you are a

sarswat brahmin- this clearly proves you want to use your lineage to prove your

" effectiveness " >

> > I am a Saraswat Brahmin by birth. I have gone through the Vedas and other

shastras. So the credentials are impeccable, since I cannot be accused of being

of a " lower caste " to denigrade " upper castes " by " Vedic astrologers " . Being

secular, however, does not mean giving up one's religion in which one was born!

> >

> > <Also if you donot belive in manu smriti- why do you put it here...>

> >

> > Who told you that I do not believe in the Manusmriti?

> >

> > <I personally donto belive in many " laws " given in it.. anyways...>

> >

> > No comment.

> >

> > <You were reepatedly told on the forums..but which you did neither listen or

care to ponder on:

> > i) Many parts of vedas have been distorted( If you cn prove it otherwise..I

will take your point...)

> >

> > ii) vedas are in a coded language( the slokas have a mathematcial pattern)-

this I cannot prove it here- it is long discussion.

> >

> > The coding is just like a FM radio signal has the signal information encoded

in it.

> >

> > So if you see 8 slokas, in relaity there might be 15.

> > You will have to study coding of signals before you comment on this.>

> >

> > On the one hand you do not believe in many laws given in the Manusmriti but

at the same time you believe that " Vedic astrology " is " Vedic " in spite of the

fact that there are neither Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis nor Mangal, Shani etc.

planets---least of all the Greek words Dreshkana, Apoklima, Panphara etc. or

Vimshotari, Ashtotari, etc. hundreds of dasha-bhuktis etc. in any of the Vedas

or the Brahmanas or the Upanishadas etc.. etc. They are not even in the Vedanga

Jyotisha!

> > You claim that astrological gimmicks are in the Vedas either in coded

language or in the portion that is lost--you are not yourself sure as to which

of the two it is! It would, therefore, have been much better to call any Mesha,

Vrisha etc. rashi based predictive gimmick as " Vedic astrology " after they had

been decoded or the " lost portions " traced! Till then, it could have been named

as " yet to be decoded Vedic astrology " or " yet to be traced Mesha, Vrisha etc.

Rashis based-Vedas- Vedic astrology "

> >

> > <YOUR ASSERTION ON THIS MIGHT BE CORRECT, that there could be variations in

ephemeris and may be yours is better- but a generalized statment on that as your

ephemeris is correct the entire jyotisha is incorrect is FALSE>

> > I have been asking a simple question to every astrologer, including you, and

I repeat the same: Right from the dawn of the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mlechha

about two thousand years back, till the advent of modern astronomy from

Greenwich/JPL/ NASA, panchangas in India were prepared from either the Surya

Sidhanta or Aryabhati or Grahalghava etc. The fundamental arguments of all thee

" astronomical gems " are monstrously inaccurate. Perhaps you forget that the

famous " Vijayeshwara Jantri " of Kashmir was prepared from Makaranda till a

decade or so back. And it is the same Vijayeshwar Jantri that has declared

categorically that Makaranda is an incorrect astronomical work and now

Vijayeshwar Jantri is being prepared from " drik-ganita " i.e. data from JPL/NASA

via Rashtriya Panchanga. But ironically, every jyotishi over the last couple of

thousand years is supposed to have been making correct predictions based on

horsocopes prepared from those very

incorret panchangas based on incorrect sidhanta! So pray, do enlighten me as to

how that could be possible! And if the Manu has called scuh " nakshatra-scoochis

" as " Brahmana-chandalas " , pray tell me, what wrong has he done?

> >

> > Even today, you will find at least half-a-dozen ayanamshas in the fray. They

have come into existence only because predictions from Ayanamsha " X " failed and

and that is why Ayanamsha " Y " was invented! If one ayanamsha is astronomically

correct all the others are incorrect. And I may assure you that it will take

these jyotishis another millenium to find out which ayanamsha, if any, is really

correct.

> > And till then, LET OUR FESTIVALS SUFFER from " Lahiri " curse. In other words

" let the dharma-shastra go to hell, we must have correct predictions fron

incorrect data " will continue to be the " slogan " and the stand of " Vedic

astrologers " . And people like you will come to their defence with all the

bizzare logic that " Vedic astrology " is Vedic because we have yet to decode that

portion which tells us so or because we have yet to trace that presumed to be

lost portion which is supposed to contain Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis and even

Dreshakana etc. Greek terms!

> >

> > That is why I keep on repeating, " Hindus do not need enemies to ruin Hindu

dharma so long as there are 'Vedic astrologers' around to do so "

> > With regards,

> > A K Kaul

> >

> >

> > , " Pom " <pankajdhar@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Sri Kaul saheb,

> > > Due to paucity of time and relevance- if we could please be focussed and

if the need be to remove ambiguity on matters 9also avoid unnecessary

discussions) let us use mathematics on a 1-O-1 basis to prove anything

conclusively.

> > >

> > > Let us avoid unnecesssary discussions- and stay focussed...

> > >

> > > a) The moderator of the forums you are talking about (where you might have

got removed) are in no way connected to VA.

> > >

> > > b) The person whom you are accusing to character assasinate you or giving

in your information- told me you were planning to make him a treasurer it seems

of your jantri...

> > >

> > > I know him fairly well...he has no motivation provavble to go against

you..

> > >

> > > c) Your claim to be very " secular " , but in one of your writings- you had

insited on the fact that your " impeccable " credentails are that you are a

sarswat brahmin- this clearly proves you want to use your lineage to prove your

" effectiveness "

> > >

> > > Also if you donot belive in manu smriti- why do you put it here....

> > >

> > > I personally donto belive in many " laws " given in it.. anyways...

> > >

> > > d) " My request, therefore, is that there should be no imposition of Makara

Sankranti or Meshadi in the name of Lahiri Makara or Lahiri Mesha etc. on the

Bharatavarsha! "

> > >

> > > YOUR ASSERTION ON THIS MIGHT BE CORRECT, that there could be variations in

ephemeris and may be yours is better- but a generalized statment on that as your

ephemeris is correct the entire jyotisha is incorrect is FALSE

> > >

> > > Here as we said we will talk in PURE MATHEMATCIS. . terms in any future

discussions TO AVOID AMBIGUITY

> > >

> > > One of the common sense points on why the interpretetions should be

correct still is, that insteadc of a 12 inch scale if I use 11 inch scale,then

in terms of relativety the roor will creep in all readings..

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ====>LET US FOCUS IN THE INTERPRETETION PART- WHICH GETS STAGGERED DUE TO

INCORERCT EPHEMERIS- AS YOU CLAIM...

> > >

> > > e)

> > > You were reepatedly told on the forums..but which you did neither listen

or care to ponder on:

> > > i) Many parts of vedas have been distorted( If you cn prove it

otherwise..I will take your point..)

> > >

> > > ii) vedas are in a coded language( the slokas have a mathematcial

pattern)- this I cannot prove it here- it is long discussion.

> > >

> > > The coding is just like a FM radio signal has the signal information

encoded in it.

> > >

> > > So if you see 8 slokas, in relaity there might be 15.

> > >

> > > You will have to study coding of signals before you comment on this.

> > >

> > >

> > > There are many more points..let us restrict it here.

> > >

> > > regards,

> > > Punkajj

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Shri Pankaj Dharji,

> > > > Namaskar!

> > > > <Dear Sri AKK- I trust we discussed other forums.>

> > > >

> > > > Yes, we discussed it in KPIndia, where the mails were moderated and

instead of a free and frank discussion it became a lop-sided view. I therefore,

d from that forum.

> > > >

> > > > <In the mean time I interacted with some of the people whom you have

worked with- they confirmed some of my deductions about you..They have given me

some more infromation- which I think is serious - keeping in view your age and

seniority.>

> > > >

> > > > Usually, if someone has no sane argument against a premise, all they

resort to is character assasination, like " fool " , " A missionary getting funds

from some church " , a " Muslim convert " and so on! You will find those posts by

the members of that " ancient " forum here as they were sent to me by some friends

in those forums and which I posted here. One gentleman in that " ancient " forum

has even gone to the length of saying " Avtarji wants to celebrate Uttarayana

only because Xmas was celebrated on that date by Christians in the past " .

Obviusly, he has not read any of the Puranas including Shiva-Purana, Linga

Purana, Vishnu Purana etc. etc. What is surprising is that though posts to that

forum are moderated and some modicum of decency should have been there! But then

the moderator himself being a hard-core " Vedic astrologer " , I could not expect

anything better from him! Tamoguni budhi!

> > > >

> > > > But these things do happen in a dharma-yudha!

> > > >

> > > > <Kindly leave a single track approach...>

> > > >

> > > > " Vedic astrology " is not Vedic since none of the Vedas or any other

shastra including the Manu has advised us to consult soothsayers! It is even

anti-Vedic as it clashes directly with our celebrating festivals on the days as

enjoined by our shastras. Dharmashastras have called 'nakshatra-sooschis " and

" nakshatra-jeevis " as " Brahamana chanalas " , which means the shastras are against

them!

> > > >

> > > > <AKK wrote(You wrote): " “One must forget bhagya and only stick to

> > > > purushartha�- --Manu "

> > > > Fine I agree with you,would you invest when the stock markets are

down???>

> > > >

> > > > India is certainly a free country where anybody can make a fool of

anybody else so long as the other " aybody " is willing to become a fool, by

making and believing in " correct predictions from any data " , whether correct or

not.

> > > > The only request I am making is that since there is no predictive

astrology in any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha etc., it must be

rechristened! It can be named as " Lahiri astrology " or " Ramana astrology " or

" Chandra-Hari astrology " or even " zero astrology " depending on who is using what

ayanamsha! We have already " Lal Kitab " and " Kali Kitab " and " KP System " and so

on! Since they do not impinge on the dates of Hindu festivals, I have never

cribbed about them!

> > > > My request, therefore, is that there should be no imposition of Makara

Sankranti or Meshadi in the name of Lahiri Makara or Lahiri Mesha etc. on the

Bharatavarsha!

> > > >

> > > > Example is better than precent: Predictive gimmicks have made all of us,

including you, blissfully unaware that today i.e. March 20, 2009, being the day

of the Vernal Exuinox is the real Vaishakhi for J & K, PB, HP etc. etc. and the

real Meshadi for TN etc. It is the start of the new solar year! But the whole of

India will be celebrating it on April 14! Why? Because " almighty " Lahiriwalas

advise so!

> > > >

> > > > What everybody appears to be worried about is that nothing against

" Vedic astrology " must be said, even if all the shastras have spewed venom

against it! It appears that alsmot every Hindu desires that we must continue to

celebrate all our festivals on wrong days, because of that very " Vedic

astrology " .

> > > > A very strange longic and dharmashastra, indeed!

> > > >

> > > > <Some of the points you make might have value, I donot deny the same- I

donot have time to go through all your points.....>

> > > > That is the usual problem! Nobody has any time to ponder on anything

really especially if it goes against his cherished beliefs! In the meantime, we

continue to react in a hurry without considering all the pros and cons!

> > > > < Instead of a constructive use - an extreme view point can only

harm..Take care...>

> > > > I remeber having read in tenth class in a poetry book (perhaps the poem

was named " Horatius " ):

> > > > " No man can die better than facing fearful odds

> > > > for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his gods "

> > > > It is a dharma-yudha. I have thrown all care to winds! But I know " yato

dharmas tato jayah " and " satyemeva jayate nanritam " !

> > > > With regards,

> > > > A K Kaul

> > > > , Pankaj <pankajdhar@ >

wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Sri AKK- I trust we discussed other forums.

> > > > >

> > > > > In the mean time I interacted with some of the people whom you have

worked with- they confirmed some of my deductions about you.They have given me

some more infromation- which I think is serious - keeping in view your age and

seniority.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Some of the points you make might have value, I donot deny the same- I

donot have time to go through all your points.....

> > > > >

> > > > > Kindly leave a single track approach...

> > > > >

> > > > > Just one small question....

> > > > >

> > > > > AKK wrote(You wrote): " “One must

> > > > > forget bhagya and only stick to

> > > > > purushartha�- --Manu "

> > > > >

> > > > > Fine I agree with you,would you invest when the stock markets are

down???

> > > > > No in general you would not...

> > > > >

> > > > > Why? Bcoz market analyst " predict " a bad market.... Correct?

> > > > >

> > > > > So if prediction is used in market systems- then why not in human

life? No one asks you to leave your " Purushartha " - who BTW asked yuou to leave

the same.

> > > > >

> > > > > Just like stock markest- astrology is a handy tool to predict pattern

of events..midn the words I ma using...

> > > > >

> > > > > Instead of a constructive use - an extreme view point can only harm..

> > > > >

> > > > > Take care...

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Best Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > Pankaj

> > > > >

> > > > > --- On Tue, 3/17/09, jyotirved <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > jyotirved <jyotirved@>

> > > > > " Vedic astrologers " read dharmashastras

upside down!

> > > > > " jyotirved " <jyotirved@>

> > > > > Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 5:43 AM

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Â

> > > > > Dear

> > > > > friends,

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaskar!

> > > > > A common question I am often asked

> > > > > is, “Why are you against ‘Vedic astrology’ and

not against other predictive

> > > > > methods like palmistry, Tarot etc. etc. Do you believe in them " ?.Â

The answer is an emphatic no. Then why am I against “Vedic

> > > > > astrology� alone?

> > > > > “Vedic

> > > > > astrology� and Vedic calendar have an inherent mutual

> > > > > conflict!

> > > > > As is common knowledge by now,

> > > > > there is a direct conflict between Mesha, Vrisha  etc. rashi based

> > > > > jyotisha, whether sayana or

> > > > > nirayana, and the real Vedic calendar, since there are no Mesha etc.

> > > > > rashis (nor Mangal, Shani etc. planets) but only Madhu, Madhava etc.

months,

> > > > > tithi, nakshatras and Udgayana etc.

> > > > > phenomena in the Vedas, Brahnmanas and the

> > > > > Vedanga Jyotisha etc. whereas “Vedic astrology� cannot

survive without

> > > > > Rashis and Mangal, Shani etc. planets. “Vedic

astrologers� are imposing

> > > > > those very imaginary rashis -†" zodiac means

> > > > > an imaginary “circle of animals!�---on the Hindu calendar

dictating

> > > > > simultaneously that even if there are no Mesha etc. Rashis in the

Vedas or the

> > > > > Vedanga jyotisha etc., we must celebrate all the Vedic, Pauranic and

geographic/seasonal festivals like Uttarayana,

> > > > > Vasanta Navratra or Sharadiya Navratra etc. on days suggested by

“Lahiri

> > > > > jyotishis� and not the Vedanga Jyotisha or the Puranas or even

geographical

> > > > > phenomena etc.!

> > > > > “Vedic

> > > > > astrologers� never quote the exact references in spite of

repeated

> > > > > reminders!

> > > > > To continue their opposition to

> > > > > the real Vedic calendar because of its conflict with “Vedic

astrology�, these

> > > > > “Vedic astrologers� are claiming that predictive gimmicks

through Ashvini,

> > > > > Bharni etc. nakshatras which, according to them, are subsumed in

Mesha, Vrisha

> > > > > etc. rashis vis-Ã -vis Mangal, Shani etc. planets have been

> > > > > advocated/permitted /sanctioned by our dharmashastras! Some

moderators/owners of astrology forums even claim

> > > > > that the Atharva Veda has given results of being born in different

> > > > > nakshatras! Another " Vedic

> > > > > astrologer " says that " the sun went to meet the Bull " means the

> > > > > astrological sign Vrishaba as per the Vedas! As they

> > > > > are not quoting the relevant shlokas/mantras in support of their

arguments, in

> > > > > spite of being asked to do so repeatedly, they are liars and are

obviously

> > > > > making a fool of everybody!

> > > > > A “Vedic astrologer� had even

> > > > > claimed " The Manu Smriti is the oldest Dharmasashtra and the fact that

it

> > > > > permitted astrology means that astrology was permitted from the

beginning of the

> > > > > Hindu civilization. "  But, as is the habit of these “Vedic

astrologers�, he

> > > > > also has not quoted any shloka in support of his

“declaration�!

> > > > >

> > > > > The facts of the case, however,

> > > > > are:

> > > > > “Nakshatra-jeevis

> > > > > i.e. jyotishis must be debarred from performing any religious

> > > > > rites�--Manu

> > > > > Â I request these " Vedic

> > > > > astrologers " to do some introspection after reading as to what the

Manu has said

> > > > > actually about " nakshatra-jeevis " (jyotishis!) in shloka 162 of third

adhyaya,

> > > > > and I quote:

> > > > > " hasti go ashva ushtra damako

> > > > > NAKSHATRAIR YASHCHA JEEVATI,

> > > > > pakshinam poshako yashchai,

> > > > > yudhacharyas tathaiva chai.. "

> > > > > Â This shloka in the

> > > > > Manusmriti is actually in the context about as to which people are to

be

> > > > > debarred from performing diava and pitrya karyas i.e. yajnyas etc for

gods and

> > > > > oblations etc. for the Manes, and the Manu has said unequivocally

" Trainers

> > > > > of elephants, cows, horses; ANYONE WHO EARNS HIS LIVELIHOOD BY DINT OF

> > > > > NAKSHATRAS and one who puts birds into cages are not allowed to

perform any

> > > > > daiva or pitra karya "

> > > > > The Hindi translator of Kshemraj

> > > > > Shri Krishendas, Bombay, edition of the Manusmriti has translated the

above

> > > > > shloka as follows, “haathi, bail, ghoda aur oont †" in sabko

sikhane wale aur

> > > > > JYOTISH SE JEEVIKA KARNE-WALE†" yeh sab shubha karya main varjit

hainâ€�.Â

> > > > > Â Is this the permission that the Manu is supposed to have

> > > > > granted?

> > > > >  The same “Vedic astrologer�

> > > > > who had said that the Manu had “permitted astrology� had

said further, " If

> > > > > Avtarji has not read what the Manu Smriti says about astrology he has

no right

> > > > > to say that astrology is not sanctioned in the ancient past. " Â Â

> > > > > It means, thus, that he,

> > > > > like all his counterparts, has read the Manusmriti upside

> > > > > down!

> > > > > “One must

> > > > > forget bhagya and only stick to

> > > > > purushartha�- --Manu

> > > > > The same “Vedic astrologer� had

> > > > > also said that the Manu has advised that a king must consult a

jyotishi.Â

> > > > > However, again, he has not quoted any shloka in support of his

argument and it appears that he is confusing, because of his

> > > > > Tamoguni budhi, Â the Manu with Varahamihira! It is the latter

according to

> > > > > whom a king must definitenly have a " samvatsarika " ! The Manu was not

a

> > > > > fatalist. He was a scholar extraordinary

> > > > > with  practical knowledge of statecraft besides the Vedas etc.

and what he has

> > > > > actually advised the king to do, instead of consulting soothsayers,

is:

> > > > > “bakavat chinatayet arthan simha

> > > > > vat chai prakramet

> > > > > Vrika vat cha avalumpeta shashavat

> > > > > cha vinishpatet�  Manusmriti 7/106

> > > > > i.e. " Like a kingfisher eager to

> > > > > hunt some fish in the river/sea/lake, a king must concentrate on

increasing his

> > > > > wealth (a kingfisher does not consult soothsayers before pecking at

the

> > > > > fish!). A king must jump on his enemy like a lion jumps on its prey

(lions

> > > > > do not consult ‘Vedic astrologers’ before jumping on

their preys). Like a

> > > > > wolf a king must kill his enemy even if it is hidden in a fort (No

astrologer

> > > > > has as yet claimed that he was consulted by some wolf!). Like a

hare, a

> > > > > king must know how to extricate himself from tricky situations (Does

anybody

> > > > > know if any rabbit has consulted some jyotishi?) "

> > > > > Â

> > > > > Â In 7/182-83, the Manu has

> > > > > said, " A king must wage a war in the month of Margasheersha or

Phalguna or any

> > > > > other suitable period when he is sure of his victory by dint of the

opponent

> > > > > king having got addicted to some bad habits etc.�

> > > > > Consulting fortune tellers is definitely a fad, a bad habit,

> > > > > an addiction and has been

> > > > > proscribed by shastras since it makes one very unsure of

himself/herself

> > > > > and leaves him/her at the mercy of soothsayers, most of whom are liars

and quite

> > > > > a few of whom call themselves " Vedic

> > > > > astrologers " these days. Example is better than precept and that

example

> > > > > is: BJP was sent into wilderness as jyotishis had assured them that by

advancing

> > > > > the elections, Shri A B Vajapayee would be the PM, come what may!Â

Poor

> > > > > Vajpayeeji has all along been bedridden, after having lost his

throne! No

> > > > > jyotishi had “foreseen� that!

> > > > > Regarding

> > > > > " bghagya versus purusharth " , this is what the Manu has

> > > > > said,

> > > > > Naatmanam avamanyeta parvabhir

> > > > > abhisamridhibhih

> > > > > Aamrityoh shriyam anvishyet nainam

> > > > > manyeta durlabam,… (Manusmirit 4/137) i.e.

> > > > > Â " If in spite of making

> > > > > efforts, one is not able to earn the desired amount of wealth, one

must in no

> > > > > case feel himself/herself unfortunate but continue to make efforts

till the end

> > > > > of his/her life, since it is not that difficult to earn wealth (by

making proper

> > > > > efforts) " Â Â

> > > > > The Manu has not advised that one

> > > > > must consult soothsayers to do some

> > > > > remedial measures or wear some gem to

> > > > > remove non-existent and imaginary kalasarpa doshas and ashtama shani

and what not to get rid

> > > > > of penury!

> > > > > The real crux of fate

> > > > > versus efforts has been described by the Manu in

> > > > > 7/205

> > > > > Sarvam karmedam ayattam vidhane

> > > > > daiva

> > > > > manushye

> > > > > tayor daivam achintyam tu manushe

> > > > > vidyete kriya

> > > > > Â " What good or bad deeds have

> > > > > been done in our past births are in the hands of 'daiva'. What (good

or

> > > > > bad deeds) we are doing now in this birth is up to us. Since what is

past

> > > > > is past. It need not be pondered upon. But the present can certainly

be

> > > > > taken care of (and as such, we should forget the past janmas and

concentrate on

> > > > > good deeds in this janma---and certainly making a fool of the gullible

public by

> > > > > making correct predictions from incorrect data is not a good deed at

all, nor is

> > > > > it a “good deed� on the part of “clients� to

run after

> > > > > soothsayers! )..

> > > > > To remove any doubts further from

> > > > > the minds of astro-buffs, the Manu has defined purushartha as

> > > > > follows:

> > > > > “alabdham chaiva lipsyet labdham

> > > > > rakshyet prayatnatah

> > > > > Rakshitam vardhayet chaiva vridham

> > > > > paatreshu nikshipet

> > > > > Etachchaturvidham vidyat

> > > > > purushartha prayojanam

> > > > > Asya nityam anushthanam samyak

> > > > > kuryat atandritah� 7/99-100

> > > > > “One must attempt to obtain what

> > > > > he/she has not obtained yet. He/she must preserve what he/she has

already

> > > > > earned, and keep on increasing it further. After having increased

it,

> > > > > he/she should utilize (invest) it properly

> > > > > “These are the four limbs/types of

> > > > > purushartha and one must always keep them in mind and act accordingly

(and not

> > > > > waste his/her time and wealth and energy by running after

> > > > > nakshatra-soochis! )�.

> > > > > Bhishma also

> > > > > has castigated nakshatra-soochis!

> > > > > Let us hear what Bhishma had to

> > > > > say about “nakshatra-soochis�

> > > > > “ahvayakah devalakah naakshatra

> > > > > gramayajakah

> > > > > Ete brahmana chandalah

> > > > > maha-pathika panchakah�….. Shanti Parva 76/6

> > > > > i.e. “Court bailiffs, pujaris of

> > > > > temples for the sake of money, those who study naksahtras

(jyotishis!)… are

> > > > > chandalas even if they are Brahmins (and must be excluded from daiva

and pitrya

> > > > > karya)�.

> > > > > Bhishma also

> > > > > did not believe in bhagya (and therefore nakshatra-soochis! ) but in

> > > > > purushartha:Â Â

> > > > > Let us now hear Bhishma’s views

> > > > > about bhagya versus purushartha:

> > > > > “utthanenna sada putra prayatetha

> > > > > yudishthira

> > > > > Na hi utthanam rite daivam rajnyam

> > > > > artham prasadayet�  Rajdharmanushasana parva

> > > > > 65/14

> > > > > “Dear son Yudishthira, you must

> > > > > always rely on your own efforts since without your own efforts there

is no

> > > > > question of any daiva (bhagya) bestowing any riches on any

king�

> > > > >

> > > > > “vipannam vai samarambhe santapam

> > > > > ma sma vai krithah

> > > > > Ghattasvaiva sadaatmanam rajnyam

> > > > > eva paro nayah�  Rajadharmanushasana parva

> > > > > 65/16

> > > > > “If you are besieged by miseries,

> > > > > do not feel despondent. To struggle with adversities (without

consulting

> > > > > soothsayers! ) is the only way out for a king to come out of those

> > > > > adversities.�

> > > > > Vishnugugupta

> > > > > Kautileeya a.k.a. Chanakya has no good words for nakshatra-soochis and

> > > > > astro-buffs!

> > > > > Â The world famous statesman

> > > > > Chanakya (4th century BCE ), in his Arthashastra, has dissuaded a king

> > > > > about consulting nakshatra-soochis in no uncertain

> > > > > terms:

> > > > >  “nakshatram ati prichhantam

> > > > > baalo artham ati vartate

> > > > > Artho hyarthasya nakshatram kim

> > > > > karishyanti tarakah�

> > > > >  i.e. “ The objective (artha)

> > > > > eludes the foolish man (baalam) who enquires too much from the

stars. The

> > > > > objective should be the nakshatra of the objective, of what avail are

the

> > > > > stars�. We must not forget that Chankya destroyed the last

king of

> > > > > Nanda-Vamsha, who was an astro-buff. It means thus that to destroy a

powerful

> > > > > enemy you have to shun and not embrace

> > > > > nakshatra-jeevis!

> > > > > Vasishtha Muni,

> > > > > the preceptor of Bhagwan Rama, also has chided astro-buffs and

> > > > > jyotishis:

> > > > > Â Yoga-Vasishtha Maharamayana has

> > > > > nothing but sarcasm for jyotisha, jyotishis and also their clients in

no

> > > > > uncertain terms when he has said:

> > > > > “kaal vidbhir vinirneetaa yasyasti

> > > > > chira jeevita,

> > > > > sa ched jeevati sanchhin shiras

> > > > > tad daivam uttamam

> > > > > kaal vidbhir vinirneetam pandityam

> > > > > yasya raghava

> > > > > anadyapita vidyash-ched vidvan tad

> > > > > daivam uttamama�  Mumukshu vyavhar prakran 8/18-19

> > > > > “Destiny may be said to be

> > > > > efficacious/ effective, if some one for whom the jyotishis (fortune

tellers) had

> > > > > predicted a long life survives even after he has been

> > > > > beheaded.

> > > > > “Destiny may be said to be

> > > > > something to be reckoned with, if some one for whom jyotishis had

predicted

> > > > > great scholarship becomes a scholar without reading even a single

alphabet

> > > > > himself/herself�

> > > > > It is clear that after the

> > > > > nakshatra and/or utpata-soochaka works like “Atharva-Veda

Parishishta�

> > > > > or “Parashara Samhita� etc. had been spawned, the real

well wishers of

> > > > > Bharatavarsha like the Manu, Bhishma and Vasishtha and even

Vishnugupta

> > > > > Kautileeya etc. had warned the Hindus in no uncertain terms about the

pernicious

> > > > > effects of running after “nakshatra soochis� who

> > > > > are actually " chandalas " even if they are Brahmins!Â

> > > > >

> > > > > Gautama the

> > > > > Budha also has warned about omen-mongers in no uncertain

> > > > > terms:

> > > > > “Some brahmanas and shramanas earn

> > > > > their livelihood by taking to beastly professions and eating food

brought to

> > > > > them out of fear; the say, ‘there will be a solar eclipse, a

lunar eclipse,

> > > > > occultation of the stars, the sun and the moon will move in the

correct

> > > > > direction, the nakshatras will move in the correct path, in the

incorrect path,

> > > > > there will be precipitation of meteors, burning of the cardinal

direction,

> > > > > earthquakes, roar of heavenly war drums, the sun, the moon and the

stars will

> > > > > rise and set wrongly producing wide distress among all beings etc.Â

(Just

> > > > > do not be taken in by their

> > > > > pranks!)�          Digha

> > > > > nikaya, Vol I, p 68, Pali Text Book Society

> > > > > All the

> > > > > dharmashastras are against

> > > > > nakshtra-schoochis/ jeevis:

> > > > > It is not only the Manusmriti and

> > > > > the Mbh or Yogavasishtha but every dharmashastra has castigated

vociferously

> > > > > such “brahaman chandalas�

> > > > > Let us see what Atri Samhita

> > > > > 383-385 has to say

> > > > > “jyotirvido hyatharvanah keerah

> > > > > pauran-pathakah

> > > > > Shradhe yajnye mahadane na

> > > > > varneeyah kadachanai

> > > > > Shradancha pitaram gauram danam

> > > > > chaiva tu nishphalam

> > > > > Yajnye cha parihanih syat tasmat

> > > > > tan parivarjayet

> > > > > Aavkashchitrakarash chai vaidyo

> > > > > nakshatra pathakah

> > > > > Chatur vipra na pujyante

> > > > > brihaspati samah yadi

> > > > > “A JYOTISHI, AN ATHARVANA,

> > > > > ONE WHO NARRATES PURANAS FOR A

> > > > > LIVELIHOOD, ALL THESE

> > > > > ARE TO BE AVOIDED IN A SHRADHA AS

> > > > > WELL AS A YAJNYA AT

> > > > > ALL COSTS. IF THESE PEOPLE DO

> > > > > PARTICIPATE IN SHRADHAS ETC .

> > > > > ALL SUCH SHRADAS AND ANY CHARITIES TO THEM WILL BE NISHPHALA I..E.

> > > > > FRUITLESS.  THEY WILL DO MAXIM HARM TO ANY YAJNYA IN WHICH THEY

> > > > > PARTICIPATE. . THEY MUST THEREFORE BE AVOIDED AT ALL

COSTS……A BRAHMIN WHO IS A NAKSHATRA PATHAKA I.E.

> > > > > ONE WHO READS NAKSHATRAS OF HIS

> > > > > CLIENTS HAS TO BE SHUNNED

> > > > > AND AVOIDED EVEN IF HE IS AS

> > > > > LEARNED AS BRIHASPATI, THE PRECEPTOR OF GODS �.

> > > > > It is worthwhile to note that the

> > > > > “Atharva Veda Parishishita� has advised to utilize the

services of an Atharvana

> > > > > without fail whereas Atri Rishi has advised that an Atharvana, even if

he is as

> > > > > well-read and intelligent as Brihaspati, has to be shunned like a

> > > > > “chandala�

> > > > > I wonder if there can be anything more

> > > > > damaging/castigatin g for nakshatra-soochis- --who call themselves

> > > > > “Vedic astrologers� these days---than Atri’s

> > > > > admonishments!

> > > > > Vridha

> > > > > vasishtha has called nakshtra soochis as papamoortih i.e. sin

personified:

> > > > > Nakshatra soochee kila papa-roopo,

> > > > > heyah sada sudharma kritye……. Vridha-Vasishta

> > > > > A nakshatra soochi is sin

> > > > > personified and must be avoided at all costs in any good deed.Â

> > > > >

> > > > > Was

> > > > > Varahamihira really a well-wisher of the Hindus or of the

Greeks/Ionians, since

> > > > > he called the latter “mlechhas� but wanted the Hindus to

worship them as

> > > > > Rishis because they knew astrolatory?

> > > > > As everybody knows, Varahamihira,

> > > > > whom some “Vedic astrologers� address as “Parama

pujya�---i.e. the “Most

> > > > > worshipful one�, has said in his Brihat Samhita 2/15

> > > > >

> > > > > Mlechhah

> > > > > hi yavanas teshu samyak shastram idam

> > > > > sthitam

> > > > > Rishi vat te-api pujyante, kim

> > > > > punar daiva-vid

> > > > > dvijah

> > > > > �Yavanas (Greeks and/or Ionians)

> > > > > are certainly mlechhas actually but as they know the shastra of

astrology

> > > > > (predictive gimmicks!) they are worshipped like Rishis…�.

However, all our

> > > > > shastras, as seen above, advise that even if a highly well read

Brahmin like

> > > > > Brihaspati is a nakshatra-soochi/ jeevi i.e. a jyotishi, he must be

shunned like

> > > > > a chandala from all the religious functions!

> > > > > Since it is those very “doctrines�

> > > > > that have been castigated by our Rishis that were later

propagated/advocate d by

> > > > > Varahimihira on the shoulders of Sphujidwaja’s Yavana Jatakam

and Maya the

> > > > > mlechha’s Surya Sidhanta etc., we have to be extremely wary

about the intentions

> > > > > of that Varahamihira and today’s “Vamadevas� and

“Parasharas� who tell us that

> > > > > predictive gimmicks are “Vedic astrology� and who call

those gimmicks as

> > > > > “Vedanga Jyotisha� which actually is a mathematical work

for calculating tithi

> > > > > etc.

> > > > > Since all the sages like the Manu,

> > > > > Vasishtha, Chanakya and even Gautama

> > > > > the Budha were of a pre-Varahamihira era, who was around in about 6th

> > > > > century AD, it means Varahamihira had either not read any of those

admonishments- --nay even our

> > > > > dharma-shastras- --or ignored them deliberately.  Most probably,

it

> > > > > must be the latter, since that is what today’s “Vedic

astrologers� are doing! It

> > > > > could also be that he read dharmashastras upside down, exactly like

today’s

> > > > > “Vedic astrologers� who claim that the Manu had permitted

astrology. It is,

> > > > > therefore, extremely doubtful that Varahamihira was a well-wisher of

the Hindus, as he

> > > > > appears to have misguided them about his prowess of predictive

gimmicks on the

> > > > > basis of a monstrous astronomical work viz. the Surya Sidhanta and

advised them

> > > > > to treat even mlechhas as Rishis if they knew astrolatory!Â

> > > > >

> > > > > It is worthwhile to note that the

> > > > > same “Vedic astrologer� who says that the Manu has

“permitted astrology� goes on

> > > > > parroting that Varahamihira belonged to an era of 6th  century

> > > > > BCE instead of 6th

> > > > > century AD, but, as is the habit of “Vedic astrologers�,

he is not advancing any

> > > > > proofs for the same either!

> > > > > Actually, some good for nothing

> > > > > Greek astronomer masqueraded as Maya, the father-in-law of famous

Rakshasa king

> > > > > Ravana, at the fag end of Satya-yuga (sic!) and some

“mlechhas� are masquerading

> > > > > today as “Vamadevas�, all teaching us “Vedic

astrology� (sic!). You can draw

> > > > > your own conclusions about Varahamihira as well as today’s

“Vamadevas� and

> > > > > “Parasharas� whose only aim is thus to derail the real

Vedic calendar through

> > > > > “Vedic astrology�! That also reminds me

> > > > > that some jyotishis are sort of worshipping even Ravana for the

astrological

> > > > > knowledge he is supposed to have bequeathed through his Ravana Samhita

etc.

> > > > > works! I have seen that work also, and like Brihat Parashari, is the

worst

> > > > > possible figment of imagination!

> > > > > Common-sense

> > > > > also demands to shun being a “kapurusha� (a fatalist

> > > > > eunuch!)

> > > > > I remember having read, several

> > > > > decades back, a dialogue---perhaps- -in Panchatantra. A shishya,

after

> > > > > having met with failures in spite of his efforts, was disappointed and

said to

> > > > > his Guru, “bhagyam phalati sarvatra, na vidya na chai

paurusham� i.e. “It

> > > > > is only fate and neither efforts nor education

> > > > > etc., that work/frucitfy everywhere in case of a human

being�. The

> > > > > Guru, however, retorted,

> > > > > “udyoginam purusha simham upaiti

> > > > > lakshmi, daivena deyam iti kapurusha vadanti�---

> > > > > “Only someone who acts like a lion

> > > > > i.e. one who makes Herculean efforts in spite of having met with

failures,

> > > > > deserves the blessings of Lakshmi, the goddess of wealth. On the

other

> > > > > hand, ‘bhagya will do everything’ is a pet dialogue of

eunuchs�. That is

> > > > > also what Bhagwan Krishna advised Arjuna in the

> > > > > Gita:

> > > > > “klaibyam ma sma gamah parthai

> > > > > naitat tvayi upapadyete

> > > > > Kshyudram hridaya daurbalyam

> > > > > tektvotishtha parantapai�

> > > > > “O Arjuna, don’t act like a

> > > > > eunuch! It does not behove you! Shake off your sloth and weak

> > > > > heartedness and get up and fight †" act� Bhagwan Krishna

did not ask Arjuna

> > > > > to consult any soothsayer nor did He advise Arjuna to “leave

everything to your

> > > > > fate�. We also must, therefore, wake

> > > > > up and make every effort ourselves to save the Vedic calendar from the

clutches

> > > > > of “Vedic astrologers�, instead of expecting some

> > > > > miracles!

> > > > > “Try, try

> > > > > again�

> > > > > I also remember having read in my

> > > > > school days a REAL STORY of some

> > > > > king, perhaps Rana Sanga of Rajasthan†" I am not sure, that after

fleeing

> > > > > from his opponents, he was hiding in a dilapidated house in ruins

and was

> > > > > in utter frustration. There he saw a spider crawling towards its web

but

> > > > > the ‘thread’ through which it was crawling snapped and it

fell to the

> > > > > ground.  The spider kept on trying again and again and it is said

> > > > > that it succeeded in going into its web after an eighth attempt. The

king

> > > > > was amazed on the tenacity of the spider and got an inspiration,

‘Try, try

> > > > > again’ from that creature! Instead of running to some

jyotishi, like

> > > > > today’s politicians, he made several attempts and ultimately

succeeded in

> > > > > vanquishing his enemy. So if we really want to succeed in our

efforts to

> > > > > streamline the Vedic calendar, the first thing we have to do is to

shun

> > > > > “brrahmana-chandalas� .

> > > > > Are our

> > > > > dharmacharyas aware of the damage that is being done to the nation by

“Vedic

> > > > > jyotish�?

> > > > > Â In a

> > > > > nutshell, all our shastras and common sense are against any sort of

indulging in

> > > > > “bhavishya-darshan� especially as it is the greatest

obstacle in streamlining

> > > > > the Hindu calendar. It is only “Vedic astrologers� who

are putting the

> > > > > cart before the horse by trying to convey that our shastras have

“permitted

> > > > > astrology� from the “beginning of Hindu

civilization� !

> > > > > Since these “Vedic astrologers�

> > > > > are not quoting any exact references in support of their arguments, it

appears

> > > > > that they are completely enveloped in Tamoguni budhi and therefore

interpreting every shastra in quite an

> > > > > opposite manner!Â

> > > > > What is all the more surprising is

> > > > > that our dharmacharyas and jagadgurus and “his holiness of art

of one thing or

> > > > > the other� etc. etc. are encouraging these “brahmana

chandalas� in their

> > > > > anti-Vedic activities in the name of “Vedic

> > > > > astrology�!

> > > > > May be even those dharmacharyas

> > > > > etc. etc. are reading all the shastras upside down, since the Manu has

advised

> > > > > especially Vanaprasthis, which naturally

> > > > > includes Sanyasis and dharmacharyas and jagadgurus etc. etc., to

desist from being nakshatra soochis, in no

> > > > > uncertain terms:

> > > > > “na chaa utpata nimitabyam na

> > > > > nakshatranga vidyaya

> > > > > Na anushasana vadabyam bikshyam

> > > > > lipset karhichit  Manusmriti 6/50

> > > > > “A Vanaprasthi should never earn

> > > > > his ‘biksha’ (a mendicant’s livelihood) either by

declaring the results of

> > > > > utpatas i.e. omens like  falling of meteors or flying of swallows

etc.

> > > > > etc..; face reading etc. nor by nakshatra vidya i.e. by checking the

horoscopes

> > > > > of others…..�

> > > > > I, therefore, request these

> > > > > dharmacharyas and “his holinesses� and yogis and tantriks

galore to wake up to

> > > > > such travesty of dharmashastras and instead of reading them upside

down, they must streamline the real

> > > > > Vedic calendar in accordance with the Vedic lore and not

“Lahiri-lore� or

> > > > > “Ramana-lore� or “Chandra-Hair- lore� etc.

> > > > > A

> > > > > friendly advice to all the “nakshatra-soochis� and

“nakshatra-jeevis� who call

> > > > > themselves Vedic astrologers these days:

> > > > > Since most of the “Vedic

> > > > > astrologers� and their “acharyas� are prospering

by leaps and bounds at the cost

> > > > > of the real Vedic calendar by such anti-Vedic activities as

“Vedic astrology�

> > > > > they feel that they are doing the right thing and they must continue

to do so,

> > > > > as instead of losing anything, they are gaining name and fame and of

course,

> > > > > wealth! But this is what Bhishma has said about such nouveau riche

> > > > > people.

> > > > > Na adharmash-charito rajan sadyah

> > > > > phalati gaurivaa

> > > > > Moolani chai prashakhaschai dahan

> > > > > samdhigachhati

> > > > > Papena karmana vittam labdva papah

> > > > > prahrishyeti

> > > > > Sa vardamanah steyena papah pape

> > > > > prasajyete

> > > > > Na dharmo asteetimanvanah shucheen

> > > > > avahasan iva

> > > > > Ashradhadanashchai bhavet vinasham

> > > > > upagachhati…. ….Mahabharata Shanti parva 102/17-20

> > > > > “O Yudishthira, adhrma does not

> > > > > fructify immediately just as a seed sown in the earth would do!Â

However,

> > > > > it burns the roots (parents!) as well as the branches (kith and kin,

including

> > > > > offspring!) ultimately. A sinner, by amassing wealth by dint of his

sinful

> > > > > activities feels overjoyed and commits more sinful activities (to earn

more

> > > > > wealth)! On prospering thus through his adharma he thinks that

nothing

> > > > > like dharma exists at all and even makes a fun of pious people, who

are poor

> > > > > because of their piety. However, the sinner gets destroyed

ultimately

> > > > > (together with his parents and offspring)�.

> > > > > I do not think anything more

> > > > > pertinent and relevant could have been said by anybody else for these

> > > > > naksahtra-scoohis and naakshtraas and nakshatra jeevis and their

dharmacharyas!

> > > > >  We have a LIVING EXAMPLE OF “the greatest Vedic

astrologer� of the

> > > > > previous century, who had literally built a huge empire through

“Vedic

> > > > > astrology� (nakshatra-soochi! ) profession, books and magazines

but died himself

> > > > > a miserable death; his wife became a pauper who had to beg from her

offspring

> > > > > for her hand to mouth living (in spite of the fact that the

“greatest Vedic

> > > > > astrologer of the twentieth century� had foreseen “Rajya

yogas� and “dhana

> > > > > yogas� in her horoscope and that is why he had married her)!

All those “Vedic

> > > > > astrology� books and “magazines� are now being

sold as waste paper and his

> > > > > offspring are fighting among themselves like Kilkenny cats for the

spoils!Â

> > > > > Ill gotten is ill spent! And as per our shastras, there is nothing

more

> > > > > ill gotten than what is “gotten� through being a

�brahmana-chandala� i.e. a

> > > > > “nakshatra-scoohi� , as has been proved above.

> > > > > No

> > > > > Rashi has been mentioned at all in the Manusmriti or the Mbh or

Arthashastra or

> > > > > Atri Samhita etc.:

> > > > > Absence of Mesha etc. rashis at the time

> > > > > of the Manu is

> > > > > evident from the following shlokas

> > > > > about creation:

> > > > > �kalam kala vibhakteeshchai

> > > > > nakshatrani grahas tatha

> > > > > Saritah sagaran shailan samani

> > > > > vishamani chai� 1/24

> > > > > “The creator created

> > > > > Time, kal, nakshatras, grahas, oceans

> > > > > and mountains etc...(but not Mesha etc.

> > > > > rashis!)â€�.Â

> > > > > “Daive ratri ahanee varsham

> > > > > pravibhagastayoh punah

> > > > > Ahas tatra udagayanam ratrih syat

> > > > > dakshinayanam� 1/67

> > > > > “A year has two ayanas, Uttarayana

> > > > > is the day of gods and dakshinayana their night�.

> > > > > Â It means the Creator had not

> > > > > created any Mesha etc. rashis by the time of the Manu though He had

created naksahtras and

> > > > > grahas! Dimensions of Time also were

> > > > > in Ayanas and days etc. sans Mesha etc.

> > > > > Â Rashis..

> > > > > Similarly, we do not find Mesha

> > > > > etc. rashis in the Mbh. nor in the Arthashastra of Chanakya but only

> > > > > nakshatras!

> > > > > What is also noteworthy is that in

> > > > > all the admonishments of the Manu, the Atri Samhita and the Mbh or

Gautama the

> > > > > Budha, “Vedic astrologers� have been addresses as

“nakshatra-soochis� or

> > > > > “nakshatra jeevis� or “shamanas� or even

“naakshatras�. It confirms the

> > > > > fact that prior to the advent of Surya Sidhanta by Maya the mlechha,

predictions

> > > > > in India were made on the basis of

> > > > > nakshatras (and not Mesha etc. Rashis!) vis-Ã -vis planets, as

advocated by

> > > > > “Atharva Veda Parishishta� etc.---†" but not any Veda

or Vedanga Jyotisha

> > > > > etc.! Such “jyotishis� whom the AVP calls Atharvanas

etc. were called

> > > > > nakshatra-jeevis by our shastras. And those very naakshatra-jeeevis

have been

> > > > > castigated by all the shastras as “brahmana-chandalas�

> > > > > etc.!

> > > > > A

> > > > > nod to wise and….

> > > > > I could quote hundreds of

> > > > > “pramanas� from the Vedas, Brahmanas,

> > > > > Upanishadas, Itihasas and Puranas and other shastras where the Hindus

> > > > > have been advised to believe in their efforts (and not in soothsayers!

) for

> > > > > chaturvarga i.e. dharma, artha, kama

> > > > > and moksha.. But I think that is belabouring the issue, and

“Vedic

> > > > > astrologers� like the one who said that the Manusmriti

permitted astrology,

> > > > > would say that my posts are “verbose�! Thus if these

jyotishis are really wise, they will

> > > > > take this hint as more than sufficient and stop making fools in the

name of

> > > > > Vedic astrology and also creating obstacles in streamlining the Vedic

calendar!

> > > > >

> > > > > Celebrating

> > > > > festivals/muhurtas on wrong days is literally killing our dharma

> > > > > ourselves!

> > > > > “Darhma eva hato hantih dharmo

> > > > > rakshayati rakshitah

> > > > > Tasmad dharmo na hantavyo, maa no

> > > > > dharmo hato avadheet� Manusmriti 8/15

> > > > > “If you kill your dharma, it will

> > > > > kill you and if you protect it, it will protect you. As such, dharma

has to be

> > > > > protected at all costs lest it kills us if we betray it for selfish

> > > > > motives�. And there is no better or worse way of

killing/betraying one’s

> > > > > own dharma than by celebrating festivals on wrong

> > > > > days!

> > > > > The net result of this mess known

> > > > > as Vedic astrology is that we are celebrating all our festivals etc.

on wrong

> > > > > days like marriages in shdardapaksha and Pitra amavasya on the day of

actual

> > > > > Dipavali and so on!

> > > > > All I can do is to pray to God to

> > > > > save Hindu dhamra from ‘brahmana-chandalas� and their

dharmacharyas and yogis

> > > > > and tantriks so that Hindus can start celebrating festivals and

muhurtas on

> > > > > correct days!Â

> > > > > With

> > > > > regards,

> > > > > A K

> > > > > Kaul

> > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

Â

> > > > > Om Tat Sat Brahmarpanam

> > > > > Astu

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

 

--- End forwarded message ---

 

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