Fw: [Ind. & West. Astrology] Fwd: Krittikadi

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--- On Tue, 21/4/09, Prashant Pandey <praspandey wrote:

 

 

Prashant Pandey <praspandey

[ind. & West. Astrology] Fwd: Re: Krittikadi

Indian_Astrology_Group_Daily_Digest

Tuesday, 21 April, 2009, 5:18 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Shri Goelji,

 

Sir even from 40% part of the VEDAS we can atleast get the idea that our

calendar was what type(Sidereal or Tropical).In my view in other 60% there would

be no other talk means just opposite of it.

 

Even in purans calendar was Tropical.

 

Regs,

Prashant Pandey

 

Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com, Gopal Goel

<gkgoel1937@ ...> wrote:

>

> My?Dear Prasant ji,

> I am very much disappointed after reading your mail.

> If Veda(s) are course?in Mastes degree , Puranas?are Phd.

> If PURANAS WERE NOT CREATED THEN IT WAS IMPOSIBLE TO UNDERSTAND?VEDAS.

> In any case more than 60% Vedas are already extinct.

> Our present culture is based on Vedas and Puranas and not only Vedas.

> Regards,

> ?G.K.GOEL

> Ph: 09350311433

> Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR

> NEW DELHI-110 076

> INDIA

>

>

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> Prashant Pandey <praspandey@ ...>

> Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com

> Monday, 20 April, 2009 4:34:56 PM

> [ind. & West. Astrology] Fwd: Re: Krittikadi

>

>

>

>

>

> Dear Respected Shri Hari Mallaji,

>

> Good morning Sir!

>

> Sir,why are you angry at me? Sir we are in discussion and want to reach to the

conclusion by the facts from VEDAS as we are looking for Vedic Calendar not

Pauranic Calendar.So it doesnt matter that i am wrong or anybody else is

wrong.We all have to modify ourself according to VEDAS as we are looking for it

to implement in our derailed VEDIC Calendar.

>

> Even if you want to discuss puranas,ok no problem! But i have already said

that i am in favor of only Vedic Calendar,only.

>

> But when you would have been finished with collecting stories from Puranas and

also finished with analysing those atories than you will find that Rashis were

even Tropical there not sidereal.

>

> Sir, i will write mail in detail later.

>

> Namastay Sir!

>

> Regs,

> Prashant Pandey

>

> HinduCalendar, Hari Malla <harimalla@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Kaul Saheb,

> > I am very happy to be in touch after a long time.I had to tell such an

intersting story to finally get your attention.I? wanted to?tell this story to

Prasahata pandeyji before you come back?so that you do not?think I am?a fool.Any

way I am happy to get your response.If you are amused by the story, then you

will not forget it.In fact that seems to be?the?real purpose of the puranas,they

make you amused so you remember the truth, without difficulty.

> > This story I believe is in the Shiva Purana.The meaning?of this, I had not

understood before, but came to understand since?I worked on the calender reform

issue.

> > I fully agree with you?the rashis are not in the vedas.Then during the vedas

the rishis?did not have the time for fun, because they were busy catching the

ultimate truth and theorizing the scriptures directly?only n the fewest

words.Later on when theorizing was complete people had the time to make

interesting stories.During this time, as you say rashis had come into the

picture and they?made good use of the rashis to make their stories intersting.I

have started collecting all these stories and when?I get the time I will list

them? and try to explain the astrological implications. I find, in Panchtantra,

which is also dated?towards the beginning of the christian era, there? are also

many of these references to rashis.

> >

> > ?

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@>

> > HinduCalendar

> > Sunday, April 19, 2009 6:52:13 PM

> > [HinduCalendar] Fwd: Re: Krittikadi

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Shri Hari Malla ji,

> > Namaskar!

> > I am still out of town and will be back in Delhi on April 23. I am just

tryinhg to catch with the backlog from my mobile phone internet, lest people

consider me a spent force!

> > However, the more I read your mails, the more amused I am!

> > U can decide Vedic rashis being sayana or nirayana only after u can quote

the Vedic mantras that talk of Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis! There are no such

curses in the Rik Jyotisham, Yajur Jyotisham or even Atharva Veda Parishishta,

leave alone any of the Vedas! Thus Mesha etc. rashis are conspicuous by their

absence from the Vedic lore!

> > Some " Vedic astrologers " call Srimad Bhagavatam as Panchama Veda! They may

be right! But when it comes to discussion about the nature of Rahsi in that

Panchama Veda, they start saying blah, blah, blah! What types of rashis are in

the Puranas will be clear from 1999b.doc and also BVB6.doc. All those Pauranic

rashis are so called sayana!

> > Personally, I have yet to find any mention of any so called nirayana

Rashichakra in any of the Puranas or even the Sidhantas! If u have come across

such references, pl. do enlighten me!

> > With regards,

> > A K Kaul

> >

> > HinduCalendar, Hari Malla <harimalla@ ..> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Prashant Pandeyji,

> > > <But for Hindu Dharma, i will put my astrology a side(astrology gayi tail

lenay for meray pyaaray dharm ke liye).>

> > >

> > > For your devotion to your dharma,?I want to tell you a famous story of our

dharma explaining the importance and limitation?of sayan sankranti and nirayan

sankrantis.It is said once a quarrel started between Brahmaji and Vishnuji as to

who was the greater between them.The quarrel went unsettled for ten thousand

divya varsha.Then suddenly there appeard a flame of light between them and both

were surprised to see this third thing appearing.They were curious toknow waht

it was. Branhma anted to find where its top as and flew upwards and vishunu

wanted to find its rootor bottom and went downwards.Later Vishnu appeared saying

he could not find the bottom.Then Brhama appeared saying he found the top and

brought with him witnesses one of which was the kamadhenu cow.Now shiva appeared

efore them and said,Brahama told al lie saying he found the top without findngg

it, so he shall not be worshippeed. but because Vishnu admeiitted the truth, he

will b

> > > worshipped.Theyn say taht is the reason why we have no temple towordhip

Brahmaji.

> > > Here follows the astrological meaning of the story.Brahma is pole star

or?north star.Vishnu is the sun whom we call Surya narayan.The pole star is high

in the sky above the north pole.

> > > From the pole star looking down we see the earth, which is also known as

the cow, kamadhenu.Thus looking from the earth or north pole up towards the

sky,the pole star? is apparently seen?as the top of the sky.But the truth is?

that the lunar pole or the centre of the lunar orbit?ie.. bary centre is the

actual top, which is Shiva himself.Now we should know that the sayan sankranti

is related to the pole star or its postion. The nirayan sankranti is related to

the sun?and the solar sankranti.This is why we give importance to the nirayan

sankranit and not to the sayan sankranti? for religious purpose and also in

astrology, although we take the sayan positon for the actual calculations of the

heavenly bodies etc.

> > > I hope I have expresssed what?I wanted to say.

> > > thanking you,

> > > Sincerely yours,

> > > Hari Malla

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > Prashant Pandey <praspandey@ ...>

> > > HinduCalendar

> > > Sunday, April 19, 2009 8:18:15 AM

> > > [HinduCalendar] Fwd: Re: Krittikadi

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > <I recently heard that in Tamil nadu 30 temples have already taken the

sayan system for the celebration of their festivals.This is what worries me.>

> > >

> > > yeahoooo

> > >

> > > ting ding ding ding ding !

> > >

> > > Sirji this is the reality of our HINDU DHARMA. Believe me!

> > >

> > > We had tropical calendar in past, this our Dharma Grantha says.That is our

ancient Vedic Calendar in true sense.

> > >

> > > Sir for your kind information south indian's are best in astrology and

about knowing the ancient facts of Hindu Dharma.

> > >

> > > I was also aware that South Indians will start this reform and will

reinstate our vedic calendar because they are the best, and they have courage.

> > >

> > > All naadi astrological works are from south india.Thy have done beautifull

research, no doubt, i should say they are best in the world in astrology.

> > >

> > > We can abuse Kaulji but he is correct in his research.S B Dixit, i think

also South Indian, he has also said same thing and now in South India, some

temples have reinstaed the Vedic Calendar.Good News!

> > >

> > > I am also also ardent follower of Nirayan (Sidereal) sytem(also of

tropical).

> > >

> > > But for Hindu Dharma, i will put my astrology a side(astrology gayi tail

lenay for meray pyaaray dharm ke liye).

> > >

> > > Thanks again for Good News!

> > >

> > > Now i am happy and can sleep well.

> > >

> > > Regs,

> > > Prashant Pandey

> > >

> > > Indian_Astrology_ Group_Daily_ Digest@grou ps.com, Prashant

<praspandey@ > wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Sunil Nairji,

> > > > As you suggest?I stop here, since you are irritated unnecessarily

without searching for the truth.But let me remind you that I am not in favoour

of pure sayan system as you understand.? I want to protect and presearve?the

nirayan system in a reseasonble way.The reason?I want to do this?is because

sayan is trying to overcome our nirayan culture..I recently heard that in Tamil

nadu 30 temples have already taken the sayan system for the celebration of their

festivals.This is what worries me.Well if you want them to increase and

increase, it is upto you.You may please check from Robert wilkinson of the WAves

forum, if it is true or not.Also know that Mr.Kaul has?said both sayan and

nirayan Niradhar.Any way, at present I am in no mood to continue with this

subject here either. Thanking you,?I say goodbye,

> > > > ?sincerely yours,

> > > > Hari Malla.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > sreedhar.nambiar <sreedhar.nambiar@ >

> > > > vedic astrology

> > > > Saturday, April 18, 2009 11:48:49 PM

> > > > [vedic astrology] Fwd: Re: Krittikadi

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " sunil nair "

> > > > <astro_tellerkerala wrote:

> > > >

> > > > dear hari malla ji and sreenadh ji

> > > >

> > > > malla ji says shri kaul ji is ready to change his attitude or may b

> > > > malla ji can make it happen ,kaul jis confessions and conversion are

> > > > always welcome

> > > >

> > > > But the problem wont end there

> > > >

> > > > First of all he shud decide/agree what is Hindu astrological

> > > > -astronomical concept and he shud discard his support for sayana western

> > > > zodiacs and praising of their contributions .His calendrical concepts

> > > > are based on a moving vishuva bindu ,so the rasi belt ( the path ) moves

> > > > with the changes in vishuva bindu which is western concept not indian

> > > > jyothishchakra ( hindu /baudha /jaina /charvaka etc ) .indian concept

> > > > is based on nakshtra and fixed point of meshadi and aswinadi aramba

> > > > chart

> > > >

> > > > ,if malla ji thinks it is varahamihira strted it i think he is wrong

> > > > ,pls refer parasara hora ,chapter 3 shloka numbrs 3 to 7 ,nakshtrani

> > > > grhanam ----- to meshadi namaka rasaya syu part .

> > > >

> > > > so for us rasi chakra is the path for grahas and nakshtras and other

> > > > points required for a jyothichakra .And it has to b fixed one .And for

> > > > us rasi and bhava is imp .lagna and Houses decide every thing and

> > > > ownerships /shodasa vargas and all other mathematical points like ucha

> > > > ,neecha and even gulika/mrityu sputa etc all r based on a fixed rasi

> > > > chart .where as if we can use kaul's version then path is moving and

> > > > grahas moving and nakshtras moving tho mathematicaly graha position ( i

> > > > mean stithi ) point is same in both concepts which has diffrnt

> > > > parameters ,so logicaly mathematicaly both may b correct apparently but

> > > > cannot compromise because acccording his concept or supporting

> > > > arguemnts will take us to think that the road and vehicles both r moving

> > > > ( zodiac is moving back and grahas are moving forward ) .So when some

> > > > one is travelling we hav to say delhi has come to him than he reached to

> > > > delhi by road ,still the question of timing such purticular event in

> > > > advance how it is possible when both r moving ??why we need to

> > > > complicate every thing ??

> > > >

> > > > so i hope malla ji may revise his views .

> > > >

> > > > also according to vedic concept the vishnu nabhi is important in

> > > > thinking abt creation of universe and here the moola nakshtra ( as it is

> > > > base or root ) and jyeshta ( eldest one ) is also has to b considered as

> > > > based on it all nakshtra concept is based than some one interpret some

> > > > vedic mantras as kritikati naksktras in some time of vedic periods is

> > > > the strting point ,it has diffrnt meaning may b ,and vishuva bindu

> > > > cannot b a strting point when thinking abt creation of universe as it is

> > > > the basis of rai chakra ( rahu -sikhi chakra )

> > > >

> > > > so many things accepted as vedic will b diffrnt frm kaulian argumnts

> > > > and i dont think ther is any chance of reconciling both arguemnts .

> > > >

> > > > so he has only 2 choice .either discard his arguemnts or go ahed

> > > > without any use except name calling and a chance to call astrologers as

> > > > frauds in the name of a impractical calender ,like wat he was doing for

> > > > almost quarter century .

> > > >

> > > > let us forget abt he abused ancient rishies / acharyas and dharma gurus

> > > > and sankaracharyas .Also haunting any one who is interested in astrology

> > > > by gate crashing technics and guerrilla technics .

> > > >

> > > > rgrds sunil nair .

> > > >

> > > > Om shreem mahalaxmai namah .

> > > >

> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " Sreenadh "

> > > > sreesog@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Hari Malla ji,

> > > > > //> Thank you for the frank reply.He does seem to have one thing which

> > > > > most of us lack.This is devotion to his purpose of calender reform.//

> > > > > Sorry.. I think this itself is the very thing he lacks! He is NOT

> > > > > devoted to the purpose of calendar reform, but just to the his

> > > > roadside

> > > > > rowdy bad mouth attitude against astrologers and astrology alone. If

> > > > > ever he been dedicated to the subject of Vedic calender reform even

> > > > for

> > > > > at least 3 months or so he would have prepared the the skeleton frame

> > > > > work of the same, and also might have written good descriptive article

> > > > > about its components, organization, co-relation, purpose etc. He is

> > > > yet

> > > > > to implement even these tasks, which a knowledeable individual who may

> > > > > dedicate 3 months to this subject may do. This not only prove that he

> > > > is

> > > > > incapable, but also that he got NO DEVOTION to the purpose of vedic

> > > > > calender reform. Mark it.

> > > > > // I have requested him .... Hopefully he may agree....... I think it

> > > > > may be worthwhile to talk and negotiate.//

> > > > > Hopes are always good. Whether it be Sunil Nair ji, Sunil

> > > > > Bhattacharjya ji or Me, we all once had a respect for this man, which

> > > > we

> > > > > all lost in due course during our repeated interactions with that foul

> > > > > mouth, without constructive attitude and respect for the contributions

> > > > > of our ancistors. You can have your turn, and wish you all the best in

> > > > > your sincere efforts.

> > > > > //If he comes to term with somethng which is commonly acceptable why

> > > > not

> > > > > go along with him?//

> > > > > Yes, certainly if he wish he can join us and come along with. Or if

> > > > > you wish you can join him and go along with. But the point is the

> > > > > purpose of evey stream, school of knowledge and individuals differ and

> > > > > the group is just a meeting place. The true contributions are always

> > > > > done by individuals and is individualistic. This being so - neither I

> > > > > need the help of Kaul nor Kaul need the help of me. The same could be

> > > > > true about the contibution of anyone with in this group or outside.

> > > > > //After all we must divide our work.//

> > > > > Have your ever tried it (especially related astrological research)?

> > > > > And what was the result? What are the lessons you learned from that

> > > > > experience? We all would be eager to know. If you have ever tried

> > > > > the same, you would sure be able to answer those questions. But if you

> > > > > haven't ever tried the same - then your advice does not hold any

> > > > water.

> > > > > Any way I am in support of that statement, but at times when it

> > > > comes

> > > > > to astrological research, I don't find anyone to divide my work with!

> > > >

> > > > > May be I may change this opinion as I see more sincere at the same

> > > > time

> > > > > knowledgeable individuals.

> > > > > Love and regards,

> > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > >

> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla

> > > > > harimalla@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Sreenadhji,

> > > > > > Thank you for the frank reply.He does seem to have one thing which

> > > > > most of us lack.This is devotion to his purpose of calender reform.

> > > > > After all we must divide our work.If he comes to term with somethng

> > > > > which is commonly acceptable why not go along with him?

> > > > > > I feel we can work something which harmonises all, which keeps up

> > > > our

> > > > > nirayan tradition and also correct the times of festivals.The rashis

> > > > > must continue, as much of our religious literature and the present

> > > > > jyotish system is based and has been written using them. I have

> > > > > requested him not try to get rid of the rashis and also tolerate the

> > > > > nirayan system in a coordinated fashion with the sayan system.

> > > > > > Hopefully he may agree.I have not been in contact with him for some

> > > > > time.Shree Sunil Bahatacharyaji, thinks he may not agree overnight.But

> > > > I

> > > > > think it may be worthwhile to talk and negotiate..thank you..

> > > > > > Sincerely yours,

> > > > > > Hari Malla

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- End forwarded message ---

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >