Fw: Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relevant Chronology and the Sidereal

[Guest guest]

Mr Hari Mall, Mr Prashant Pandey, Mr Anup Knanna & c all belong to the team of Mr

AK KAul whose sole agenda is to destroy Vedic Jyotisha. Following comments by

Khanna is utterly false, without evidemce :

 

<<< " ALL KNOWS ABOUT VINAY JHA'S POLITICS

 

WHEN HE HAS TO ABUSE JR HE COMES TO VA,

WHEN HE HAS TO ABUSE AIA HE GOES TO JR

WHEN HE HAS TO ABUSE SREENADH AND CHANDRAHARI BHASKAR NAIR HE COMES TO VA

>>>

 

Mr Sunil Bhattacharjya made valid statement, for which he is being insulted by

Mr Anup Khanna. All astrrologers in the world from time immemorial accept that

only the zodiaczl plane is astrologically significant. Mr HarI Malla is not

insane, but is capable of driving others to insanity with his amazing capacity

to refute facts and logic without forwarding his reasons of refusal.

 

-VJ

============================ ==

 

 

________________________________

Anup Khanna <khannaanup32

vedic astrology

Friday, June 26, 2009 1:47:18 AM

[vedic astrology] Re: Fw: Re: Rashi in Vedic literature,

the Relevant Chronology and the Sidereal

 

 

 

 

 

SEE IN THIS MAIL CHAIN HOW SB WROTE TO MR. HARIMALLA,

 

HE WROTE WORD INSANE TO HIM BUT EVEN AFTER HEARING THAT WORD MR. HARIMALLA DIDNT

LOOSE HIS GRACE AND WROTE IN CALM MANNER

 

SEE THE LANGUAGE OF SENIOR (CALLED IN THIS WAY BY VINAY JHA) AND ALL KNOWS HOW

MR HARIMALLA WRITES HIS MAIL, I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY ABUSIVE WORD IN HIS MAIL

 

ALL KNOWS ABOUT VINAY JHA'S POLITICS

 

WHEN HE HAS TO ABUSE JR HE COMES TO VA,

WHEN HE HAS TO ABUSE AIA HE GOES TO JR

WHEN HE HAS TO ABUSE SREENADH AND CHANDRAHARI BHASKAR NAIR HE COMES TO VA

 

ANYWAY I FORWARDED THIS MAIL JUST TO ANSWER THE IGNORANCE OF SB

 

WHICH IS COMING IN NEXT MAIL

 

DONT GO AWAY ANYWHERE, AND ENJOY THE DEBATE

 

AND SEE HOW A MAN, SB IS SITTING IN BORKHA AND PLAYING WITH DHARMA-SHASTRA AND

DISTORTING FACTS MERE BECAUSE OF CUNNINGNESS

 

ANSWER TO THIS MAIL CHAIN IN NEXT REPLY

 

--- On Thu, 25/6/09, harimalla@rocketmai l.com <harimalla@rocketmai l.com>

wrote:

 

harimalla@rocketmai l.com <harimalla@rocketmai l.com>

Re: Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relevant Chronology

and the Sidereal

 

Thursday, 25 June, 2009, 3:11 PM

 

Dear Dembiji,

 

How are you? May I request you to ask the gentleman, who wrote the following, as

to the scientific and logical reasoning for his claims.

 

<It is insanity to claim that the constellations outside that plane of the solar

system will have the same effect on the Earth as the constellations on the plane

of the solar system ie. the ecliptic>

Please evaluate for yourself when his reply comes.ThanK you,

sincerely yours,

HAri Malla

, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy

a wrote:

>

> Dear Dembiji,

>

> It is insanity to claim that the constellations outside that plane of the

solar system will have the same effect on the Earth as the constellations on the

plane of the solar system ie. the ecliptic. Has any theoretical astrophysicist

done any such work on that and reported the findings in scientific literature?

Secondly the costellations on the ecliptic alone are useful for astronomical

dating of past events.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

--- On Wed, 6/24/09, harimalla@.. . <harimalla@. ..> wrote:

>

>

> harimalla@.. . <harimalla@. ..>

> Re: Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relevant Chronology

and the Sidereal

>

> Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 12:48 AM

>

>

Dear Sidharthji,

>

> Your question is irrelevant here because we on earth are at the receiving end

and not the stars about each other.The light we receive from the different stars

are known to us only and it is possible to compare their effects on us. Their

effects would be similar, other things remaining the same.

> My assertion remains that if some of the stars effect us then the other stars

too will effect us in the same way.

> Do you have some comments on this opinion.Please comment if you want to say

that some stars are priviledged to effect us whereas other stars do not have the

priviledge, instead of bringing irrelevant questions.

> Regards,

> Hari Malla

> , Sidharth Dembi <s_dembi@ > wrote:

> >

> > Why are you side tracking the questions that I raised since you are showing

off so much as a scientific mind. I have not made any assertions, only you have.

I am too small to make assertions. I only raised some questions. Once your

scientific knowledge finds answers raised by questions, I assure you that I will

start learning from you.

> >

> > Any instead of answering my questions, you are raising more!! And in fact

reading my mind too - u even know what i think! I will appreciate if you could

find answers to my questions with your scientific knowledge and enlighten me

also. Then we could take our discussion forward. Otherwise we are just engaging

in useless discussions.

> >

> > My sincere regards and

> > Best of Luck

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --- On Tue, 23/6/09, harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..> wrote:

> >

> > harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..>

> > Re: Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relevant

Chronology and the Sidereal

> >

> > Tuesday, 23 June, 2009, 4:45 PM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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> > Dear Sidhartha Dembiji,

> >

> > So you think only some stars effect the creatures on earth whereas others

are not capable of effecting.Is that what you intend to say? If so can you give

some reason, why this should be so.Also what type of effect these stars have on

us? Let us have your scientific outlook.

> >

> > Hari Malla

> >

> >

> >

> > , Sidharth Dembi <s_dembi@ > wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Hi Sunil ji,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Nice reply to him.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > I have no knowledge of the Shastras, but have studied science. He is

commenting on the effects of starts on us.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > He says -

> >

> > > My understanding is that if 12 groups effects us, then the other 76

> >

> > > groups should also have effected us.What do you think? Does this not

> >

> > > show that actually none of the stars effect us

> >

> > >

> >

> > > If he is so enamored by Science, let him understand the basic two-slit

experiment in quantum physics (infact the first basic step in understanding

quantum physics) which no scientist has been able to understand and explain. How

can two electrons millions of light years away influence each other? How do they

know about each other? He should read about it and then he should just shut up,

and not comment based on his so-called scientific knowledge. And he should wait

for science to come up with an explanation (which it never can) and then comment

on anything!!

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Regards

> >

> > >

> >

> > > --- On Sun, 21/6/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a.>

wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a

> >

> > > Re: Re: Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relevant

Chronology and the Sidereal

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Sunday, 21 June, 2009, 12:19 AM

> >

> > >

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> > > Shri Harimalla,

> >

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> >

> > > Please stop your nonsensical talk. You don,t know the Shastras and waste

everybody's time. Go and teach Kaul first.

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > You have mentioned Bhagavatam, Dharmasindhu and Kalamadhav without giving

any reference. None of these has said that Uttarayana will, for ever, occur

when the Sun comes to the Makar Rashi Since the 3rd century CE the Uttarayana

does not occur in the Makar rashi. due to precession.

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Vedas have mentioned about the animal forms in the sky (Satapatha Brahmana

10.2.1). Mesh (Ram) is the symbol of the Mesh Rashi, Vrshabh (Bull) has become

the symbol of the Vrshabh Rashi. We need not think that these have come from the

west.

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Further you do not know that there are 27 groups of stars in the ecliptic

and that each group of star is named after the main star called Yoga Tara. For

example, the Krittika nakshatra is a group of 6 stars. This is the astronomical

fact. In Astrology these 27 Nakshatras are divided into 12 Rashis or Asterisms

or Lunar mansions.

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > There is no need of trying to educate me with your fake knowledge.

However, in future if any or all of the the hundreds of the members of all the

astrology groups request you to teach them, then of course you can start your

teaching program. In that case please address your mail to them and not to me.

Is that clear? BTW, why don't you educate your idol Kaul and his cronies

first.

> >

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> > > S.K..Bhattacharjya

> >

> > >

> >

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> >

> > >

> >

> > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, harimalla@rocketmai l.com <harimalla@rocketma i

l.com> wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > harimalla@rocketmai l.com <harimalla@rocketma i l.com>

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Re: Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relevant

Chronology and the Sidereal

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Saturday, June 20, 2009, 11:10 AM

> >

> > >

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> > > Dear Sunil Bhattacharjyaji,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > No problem if you would like to avoid discussiong about calendar

reform.But since I have not been able to impart certain technical knowledge to

you, I shall repeat here so that if you can please try to grasp,since you have

failed to do, so far, inspite of my repetetions.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > I quote the definition given by The world Book Encyclopaedia of

Constellations. It runs as follows, " Astronomer s have divided the sky into 88

constellations. ..the ancient people named these groups of stars after animals

and mythological characters.For example, the contellations Leo was named after

lion, Pisces after two fish,and Taurus after a bull " .Do you understand that the

scientists recognise each rashi as one constellations. The 27 constellations of

which you have mentioned, are not the scientist's categorisaion but of the

eastern daily lunar constellations, we call as nakshyatras. The scientist are

not used to that.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Please do not misquote me and say " also that instead of 12 constellations

88 constellations should be considered in astrology and that it is in the

interest of Dharma, even though you yourself do not believe in Phalita Jyotisha.

You don't even know that the ecliptic has 27 constellations and not 12. I made

you admit that nothing like consideration of 88 constellations is mentioned in

the ancient texts and that these are your own wild ideas. "

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Plese listen carefully what I have said and do not misquote me for what I

have not said.I have never said 88 constellations should be considered in

astrology.I have said only 12 constellations are used in astrology out of total

of 88, existing in the sky.I have also said,since only a few constellations

(only 12)are taken out of total of 88 as known to be in the sky, it proves that

the stars do not effect us directly.I have found you incapable to understand the

meaning of this sentence. Is my expression in English so weak that you are not

able to understand its logic? I hope that you do not believe some stars effect

us and others do not.Do you think only 12 groups of stars effect us and the

remaining 76 groups categorised by science are incapable to effect us? My

understanding is that if 12 groups effects us, then the other 76 groups should

also have effected us.What do you think? Does this not show that actually none

of the stars effect us?

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Another point you have not understood although universally accepted is as

follows.I again quote the same enclyclopaedia on the definition of Aries.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > " Aries is traditionally known as the first constellation of the

zodiac.Aries is symbolized by a ram. In mythology,it represents the ram with the

golden fleece that was sought by Jason and the Argonauts... .Technically, Aries

is no longer the first zodiacal sign because the vernal equinox has moved on

into the Pisces, due to the effect of the precession of the equinoxes. "

> >

> > >

> >

> > > You see the western people have their own story or purana about the Aries

constellations 'Jason and the Argonauts'.Whereas in the hindu mythology, we have

no such story.This also proves that it was not originally ours.In their concept,

Aries is also equivalent to vernal equinox.Your fixed Aries concept without

relationship with the vernal equinox is not only unacceptable from their

concept, but also from the concept of our own puranas like the Bhagvatam about

mesh rashi.Our Bhagvatam repeats again again that makar sankranti represents

uttrayan.Not only that our dharmas shastra like Dharma sindhu also says so. But

you being ignorant about dharma shastra like Dharma sindhu, kala madhav etc talk

like a unread and non religious person. You also do not take the trouble to read

them. You know only how to stick to your limited knowledge and say if we have to

celebrate uttarayan then we can join Christmas parties.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Well why do you not become a christian to do so rather than recommend such

a silly propopsal to fellow hindus.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Saying mesh is free from the spring equinox or that makar sankranti is

free from uttarayan, you people have shown the ignorance of the century.I can

understand you have not read dharma shastras as mentioned above.But what I

cannot understand is why do you not purchase a book and read.They are not costly

books. Or go to a library and read them.But do not make the jokes of the century

by saying mesh sankranti is not linked to vernal equinox and makar sankranti is

not linked to winter solstice.Bhagvatam itself is full of these assertions.I

have quoted the description of the Sishumar chakra too.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > OK then good bye for today.Take care.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Hari Malla

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> >

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> > > > Shri Harimalla,

> >

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> > > > 1)

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> >

> > > > Go and discuss calendar reform in calendar group and not here. In future

please do not talk to me about Calendar reform. You have harassed me enough in

the AIA group with your nonsensical ideas such as need for renaming the Rashis

and Nakshatras and also that instead of 12 constellations 88 constellations

should be considered in astrology and that it is in the interest of Dharma even

though you yourself do not believe in Phalita Jyotisha. You don't even know that

the ecliptic has 27 constellations and not 12. I made you admit that nothing

like consideration of 88 constellations is mentioned in the ancient texts and

that these are your own wild ideas. If you want to create a new form of Jyotish

shastra please go and do it yourself and publish a book and get the recognition

yourself. But don't try to involve me in your absurd ideas. Please do not try

your usual trick to do useless emotional tricks like saying that you are very

concerned

> > about

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > the Dharma.

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> > > > 2)

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> > > > Why do you say as follows?

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> > > > Quote

> >

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> >

> > > > Why do you phalit people panic to learn that the rashis were not treated

in the Vedas when all agree that it wasdealt with in the puranas?

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

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> > > > Unquote

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> >

> > > > Don't you understand the English language. I have already given

reference to the verses, where the Rashis appear in the Vedas, Vedanga Jyotisha

and Purana. So why should we panic? It is people like you, who are against the

Jyotish Shasta, are panicking. What an anti-astrology man like you is doing

here?

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > Tell AKK and Sathaye and others that Sayanacharya said in the foreword

in his work on Rig Veda that the Vedas should be supplemented with the Itihasa

and the Puranas. Sathaye could not find the Vedanga jyotisha. I told him where

to find the Vedanga Jyotisha, published by INSA. Any Vedic scholar will

understand that the verses I gave show the presence of Rashi in Veda. Also tell

them that all the nine grahas are also in the Veda. Sometimes the terminologies

are different. For example, Rahu and Ketu are called Svarabhanu in Veda. The

Sun, the Moon and Brihaspati are of course in the same name. I already told AKK

that Manu had told that the Kings should consult Astrologers. thereby approving

the use of Astrology. If AKK cannot find a copy of the Manu smriti you can tell

him that it is in the Internet. If you people want to remain in your own

self-imposed darkness I have no objection.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > I repeat. Please do not address any mail to me in connection with

Calendar. If you find any other member of the group interested in discussing

calendar with you then you can discuss calendar with him provided the Modearorji

approves such discussions here.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> >

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> >

> > > > Sincerley,

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> > > > S.K.Bhattacharjya

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> >

> > > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..> wrote:

> >

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> > > > harimalla@ . <harimalla@ ..>

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > Fw: Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Re: Rashi in Vedic

literature, the Relevant Chronology and the Sidereal

> >

> > >

> >

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> >

> > >

> >

> > > > Saturday, June 20, 2009, 1:46 AM

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> > > > Dear Sunil Bhattacharjyaji,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > Sorry for the interrruption, but I am tempted to ask one question.What

exactly is the purpose of this hot discussion wether the rashis were in the

vedas or not? If a proposal of calendar reform is produced with the rashis

included, will that not satisfy you? Why have you to defend the presence of the

rashis in the vedas?why so much attachment to phalit jyotish? I am assuming that

the purpose of all this discussion is whether to consider the rashis in the

calendar reform or not.Why do you phalit people panic to learn that the rashis

were not treated in the vedas when all agree that it was dealt with in the

puranas.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > Since the puranas have also become part of our scriptures or culture,

many people will agree to include the rashis as part of our culture.I think be

satisfied with this instead of claiming the rashis to be in the vedas by fair

means or false. This is just waste of time.When a method of calendar reform is

available with the rashis continuing why do you not support such a method of

calendar reform?

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > Thank you,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > Hari Malla

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

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> >

> > > > > --- On Fri, 6/19/09, sunil_bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy

a wrote:

> >

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> > > > > sunil_bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Re: Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relevant

Chronology and the Sidereal

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > WAVES-Vedic

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > Cc: Vedic_research_ institute, USBrahmins@gro

ups.com, kk.mehrotra@ ...

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > Friday, June 19, 2009, 8:09 PM

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> > > > > Dear Shri Mehrotra,

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> > > > > 1)

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> > > > > Did you not yourself opine as follows;

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> > > > > Quote

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> > > > > " To me, he appears to be hardly a Vedic scholar "

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> > > > > Unquote

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> > > > > Did you expect me to challenge your opinion and go all out to prove

myself as a Vedic scholar? Vedas are too vast and it is not easy for one to call

oneself as a Vedic scholar. I understand that many hold the view that even the

great Sayanacharya had given the meanings more from the rituals point of view. I

have written in mails what I knew about the Rashi in veda and Purana and you

opined that I am not a scholar. So I have no intention of changing your opinion

on that.

> >

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> > > > > You also said as follows "

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> > > > > Quote

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> > > > > " However, they always seem to me always converging on phalita-jyotisha

being a Vedic science,as witnessed from your discussion in this and other

forums "

> >

> > >

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> >

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> > > > > Unquote

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> > > > > Here I contest your views. For example, in the Advaita forum I have

not talked about Astrology at all so far, as there was no need for that. Avtar

Krishen Kaul sent some posts in some fora and I contested his views and that

made you to jump to the hasty conclusion made as above.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > 3)

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > Now will you please tell me at least about yourself so that at least I

can get know about your scholarship?

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > 4)

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > As regards the Vedas and the puranas and their chronology you are free

to hold your own views. If you think that the Vedic words and the verses do not

have any paroksha meaning it is upto you. I have quoted what the Brhadaranyaka

Upanishad said. How do you say that I alone hold about the Paroksha meaning of

the Vedic verses? You took the name of Swami Dayanand Saraswati. Ask him about

it and report to the forum. He may remove your doubts.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > You have not read Dr. N..R.Joshi's mail carefully. He mentions about

the seven layers of meanings of the Vedic words and verses.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > 5)

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > If you come to the conclusion that the Puranas are zero-veda then that

is your opinion. BTW do you know what are the five criteria to be met by the

Puranas?

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > 6)

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > I have given that date of the Bhagavata purana and this purana

mentions the Rashis. About the date of the earliest date of the RigVeda I concur

with the findings of Dr. Narahari Achar.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > Sincerely,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > Sunil K.Bhattacharjya

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > --- On Fri, 6/19/09, kk.mehrotra <kk.mehrotra@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > kk.mehrotra <kk.mehrotra@ ...>

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > [WAVES-Vedic] Re: Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relevant

Chronology and the Sidereal

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > WAVES-Vedic

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > Friday, June 19, 2009, 12:25 PM

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > Dear Shri Bhattacharjya,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > If you are not a Vedic scholar, I do not know how you can claim to

know " parokshya " meaning of the Vedic mantras when actually you say yourself

that you do not have " pratakshya " knowledge of the Vedas either.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > I do not know about Mr. Sathaye, but I am impressed to see your varied

interests. However, they seem to me always converging on phalita-jyotisha being

a Vedic science, as witnessed from your discussions in this and other forums.

That is why I said that you were trying to pass astrology on the shoulders of

the Vedas.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > Your statements that some Upanishadas talk of the Puranas etc. also

makes me feel that Dayananda Saraswati was correct when he had said that there

had been tamperings with the puranas and even some Vedic parts. If the Itihasas

and Puranas came after the Vedas, how could the Vedas advise us that the Puranas

and itihasas were the fifth Veda! Besides, if we have to study ithasas and

Puranas before the Vedas, then they could be called Zero-Veda and not the fifth

Veda!

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > It has been pointed out by Dr. N. R. Joshi that Yaska and several

other Acharyas etc. have not given any " parokshya " meanings of the mantras, the

way you have done. I wonder why you alone have been chosen as an exception for

such " hidden " meanings!

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > I also saw a lot of your correspondence with Dr. Wilkinson in this

forum where he claims that he had seen Tropical zodiac in the Vedas through his

yoga and tapasya and wanted the Hindus to celebrate Makar Sankranti on the

Winter Solstice. Is it the same zodiac that you claim to have " parokshya "

knowledge about from the Vedas or is it some other zodiac?

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > Regarding Vedanga Jyotisha, since I have no knowldge of that work, pl.

give me the complete address of the website where it is available. I could not

find it on INSA site.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > About Rashis in Bhagawata Purana etc., there is again a lot of

material avaialbe in your discussions in other forums. Nobody is denying that

there are rashis in the Puranas. But how does that prove that those rashis have

been taken from the Vedas, and they are not interpolations from other sources,

espedially when the Rashis are supposed to be " paroskhya " in the Vedas.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > Can you pl. give the dates of various puranas and the Vedas as well

Upanishadas according to you so that I could understand as to whether it was the

puranas that talked about the Vedas or it was the other way round.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > It is my humble request that there is nothing personal in this

discussion but just an exchange of views. I want to improve my own knowledge.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > With regaqrds,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > Yours sincerely,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > K K Mehrotra

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > WAVES-Vedic, sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Dear Mehrotraji,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > I agree with you that I appear to be hardly a Vedic scholar. But

your assumption that I am an astrologer is also not correct. I am a retired

scientist and with interest in Ancient Indian History, Indian Philosophy and the

Jyotish Shastra, which includes Hindu Astronomy and Hindu Astrology... In the

WAVES-Vedic forum itself there may be some Vedic scholars and I hope they will

express their views sooner or later.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > I wish to clarify that you are mistaken to assume that I am

insisting that you must accept my interpretations of the Vedic Mantras. I have

just given my views. To accept or not is at your discretion. I am also not

trying to pass astrology on the shoulders of the Vedas. It is upto you to accept

or not what I said but please do not be judgemental like that.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Avinash Sathayeji says as follows:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Quote

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > I have given up on Sunilji because he wants us to accept two axioms:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > 1. Vedas have a hidden meaning.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > 2. Only special people are entitled to this meaning and these people

are not responsible to explain even a whole Richa, let alone a Sukta based on

their view.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > We have to simply accept their declaration as the true truth!

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Unquote

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > I am shocked by the accuasations from Dr. Sathaye saying that he is

put off by my two axioms. I just simply told him that the Vedic words and the

verses have Paroksha and Pratyaksha meanings. Brihadaranyaka Upanishad (4.2.2)

says : " paroksha priya hi devaah pratyaksha dvishah " , which means that the gods

love the indirect or obscure meanings and dislikes the evident or obvious. Let

him not accept that if he likes.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > I do not claim myself to be an authority on the Veda. But I

understand that for proper comprehension of the Vedic verses one must read the

Puranas first and then one must also know the Vyakarana, Nirukta and Chanda etc.

If this requirement makes someone special then it is so. He does not have to

accept my firm interpretation.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > He has not told me whether he could find the verse on Rashi in the

Vedanga Jyotisha. I wrote to him that the INSA's publication on the " Vedanga

Jyotisha " is available in the Internet and one can have access to it in five.

minutes.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > He has also not given any feedback whether he could see the Rashi in

the Bhagavata Purana. Recently Parameshwaranji sent a mail to the USBrahmins

forum with the verses (with rashis mentioned in them) from the Vamana Purana .

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > He just wants only to extract information and criticize

unnecessarily.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Sincerely,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/17/09, K K Mehrotra <kk.mehrotra@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > K K Mehrotra <kk.mehrotra@ ...>

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > [WAVES-Vedic] Re: Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relevant

Chronology and the Sidereal

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > " Avinash Sathaye " <sohum@>

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Cc: waves-vedic

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 12:31 AM

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Dear Sathayeji,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > I was under the impression that I had posted my mail to the

WAVES-VEDIC forum. On seeing your response, I checked the reason and find that

the mail reaches, by default, to the person concerned instead of the forum!

This happens only with WAVES!

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > I also find Shri Bhattacharjya' s insistence that we must accept

only his interpretations of the Vedic mantras a bit difficult to digest. To me,

he appears to be hardly a Vedic scholar, though he poses to be one. He is more

of an astrologer than anything else, who is trying to pass astrology on the

shoulders of the Vedas.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > I do not know much about Aurobindo but I have read Dayananda

Saraawati's Bhashya of the Vedas.. I am not an Arya Samaji, but I agree with

almost all of his interpretations. I wish I coiuld understand Sayana Bhashya,

since I do not have much knowledge of Sanskrit.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Anyway, many thanks for the prompt reply.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > K. K. Mehrotra

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Avinash Sathaye <sohum@ edu> wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Avinash Sathaye <sohum@ edu>

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Re: Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relevant Chronology and

the Sidereal

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > " kk.mehrotra " <kk.mehrotra@ >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 3:43 PM

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Dear Malhotraji,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Thank you for agreeing with me.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > I have given up on Sunilji because he wants us to accept two axioms:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > 1. Vedas have a hidden meaning.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > 2. Only special people are entitled to this meaning and these people

are not responsible to explain even a whole Richa, let alone a Sukta based on

their view.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > We have to simply accept their declaration as the true truth!

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > In other words, any argument with SB is likely to produce anything

useful or rational.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > This is the reason I have decide not to waste my time on this

discussion. If one of these seers were to describe their methodology, their full

understaanding of their alternate meaning on a rational basis, then I am very

interested.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Aravind had his spiritual interpretation and did write down

extensive commentaries. While I don't always agree with his twist on the Vedic

meanings, I respect his intellectual honesty and overall view.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Once again, thank you.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > kk.mehrotra wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Respected members,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > I am a new comer to this forum.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > This discussion of Rashis in the Vedas is quite interesting and is

going on in several forums, where I have seen on Shri Bhattacharjya' s responses

without any mail from Shri Sathaye.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > I am in full agreement with Avinashji's interpretations. It can

hardly be presumed that Vasishtha and Vishwamitra etc. Rishis indulged in

horoscope reading or match-making!

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Best wishes

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > K K Mehrotra

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > WAVES-Vedic, Avinash Sathaye <sohum@>

wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > I was happy to see more details from Sunil K. Bhattacharjya.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > However, I still see many problems with the claim of Rashis in the

Veda.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Here are my observations:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > SB said:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > /A) Rashi in Veda

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > 1)

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Rarshis are mentioned in the Veda. Rig Veda (RV) mentions Vrshabha

(RV

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > 6.47.5; 8.93.1),

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > /

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > *In 6.47.5 vRRiShabha is used as an adjective of Soma. sAyaNa

explains

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > it as " vRRiSheTirjanayitA " - creator of rains, since offering of

Soma

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > leads to rains!

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Could we have a parokSha explanation of the whole verse please!!

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > I have already given 8.93.1 in detail. My request to get a parokSha

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > explanation of it is still not resolved.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > *SB further said:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > /Mithun (RV 3..39.3), Simha (RV 5.83.7; 9.89.3) and Kanya (RV

6.49.7)./

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > *

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Of these, I quickly checked 6.49.7. There the word kanyA exists as

an

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > adjective to the Goddess Saraswati.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Where does one get the Rashi?

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > sAyaNa

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > describes as

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > kanyA=kamanIyA.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Again, pleas give us a complete translation of the whole verse which

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > justifies the alternate meaning.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > If one were to go by just the Rashi names appearing somewhere, then

I

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > can find many more references in Rigveda(:-))

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > SB further said;

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > / /*/There is also mention of Kumbha (Rasi), where Agastya and

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Vasishtha were born. The verse is :

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > ????? ? ?????????? ?????? ?????? ???? ???????? ????? |

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > ??? ? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? ???????????? ???? || (RV 7.33.13)

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Ordinarily Kumbha will mean a pot or kalash but we know that Agastya

was

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > born from the womb of his mother haribhoo and not from a pot.. So we

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > understand that Agastya was born in Kumbha Rashi. Here one has to

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > interpret the metaphors properly.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Dr.Vartak pointed out the mention of Mesha, Vrischika and Dhanu

Rashis

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > in Veda.. He also identified Anas-Ratha with Tula Rashi and Shyena

as

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Meena Rashi in the Veda. I

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > fully support Dr. Vartak's view as he knows

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > that the Veda itself says that it has Paroksha and Pratyaksha

meaning of

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > the verses.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > /*If, as Dr. Vartak and SB say this kumbha is a Rashi, then what is

the

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > explanation of the rest?

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > The verse is mentioning Mitravaruna dropping equal amount of semen

in

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > the kumbha and from it were born Agastya and Vasishtha.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Could we have a parokSha translation of the whole mantra please?

Without

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > that, we simply have to take the mention of Rashi as an assertion of

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > faith (perhaps in the great seer Dr. vartak?)

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > *

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > SB frurther said:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > /2) Rashi in Vedanga Jyotisha

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Meena Rashi is clearly mentioned in the Vedanga Jyotisha (Yajur

Vedanga

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Jyotisha-verse 5). The verse is :

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > > > > Ye brihaspatina bhuktva MEENAN prabhriti rasayaH

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> > > > > > te hritaH panchabhiryataH yaH seshaH sa parigrihaH

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> > > > > > (Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha - sloka 5)

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> > > > > > [

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> > > > > > Here 'Meenan prabhriti RasayaH'

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> > > > > > means Meena and other Rashis. As Dr.

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> > > > > > Vartak points out Meena was called Shyena in the Veda

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> > > > > > /*Please tell us what edition of VJ is this? I cannot locate this

verse

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> > > > > > in my copy at all. I wrote the fifth verse in mine already. I also

gave

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> > > > > > the exact reference to my source. Please reciprocate. */

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> > > > > > /

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> > > > > > --

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> > > > > > With Best Regards,

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> > > > > > Avinash Sathaye

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> > > > > > (859)277-0130 (H) (859)257-8832 (O)

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> > > > > > Web: www.msc.uky. edu/sohum

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