Fwd: Fw: [WAVES-Vedic] Re:Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relev

June 27, 2009

<<< nobody is using that ayanamsha,,, so it is personal of Vinayjhaa,,, , he he

he he >>>

A vast majority of traditional panchangas are still using Suryasiddhantic

ayanamsha. Your " he he he he " will not stop them.

________________________________

Thakur Jagmohan Singh <thakurjagmohansingh

vedic astrology

Saturday, June 27, 2009 3:36:27 AM

Fw: Re: Fwd: Re: [vedic astrology] Fw: Re:

[WAVES-Vedic] Re:Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relev

--- On Fri, 6/26/09, Anup Khanna <khannaanup32@ > wrote:

Anup Khanna <khannaanup32@ >

Re: Fwd: Re: [vedic astrology] Fw: Re: [WAVES-Vedic]

Re:Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relev

To:

Friday, June 26, 2009, 9:16 PM

< It describes deities of nakshatras Ashvini and Bharani. In this mantra,

Bharani is called Apabharani, which is the full name and means " filler of Apa /

waters " . Bharana is a short name and means merely " filler " .

Mr Anup Khanna did not consult the original text and quoted from some spurious

modern author who talk of Alpha and Beta starts in nakshatras. He does not even

know that " Alpha " is a Greek term and cannot be found in any sanskrit text. >

Jha is diverting things with kiddish personal attacks, God sake who in India

doesnt know that alpha, betta gamma are not greek words...

JHAA, those kiddish attacks will not prove you that you are scholar, it need

proofs....

but see how much he is degraded to show the mistakes...though it was only

wriotting mistake....

< What this fellow calls " my " ayanamsha is not my inventon, it is the age old

ayanamsha used by all Indian astrologers from time immemorial, till the

beginning of modern age when some persons invented their own ayanamshas to suit

them. Many softwares are already giving choices for dozens of ayanamshas to

chose from, but I was surprosed to find that Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha was

totally absent from these softwares. Suryasiddhanta is being neglected by a

majority of internet using astrologers, because they think it is outdated.

Hence, among 40-50 types of ayanamshas in vogue Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha is

deliberately being ignored. >

it is too much,, SS is whoing the location of planets by vibration of earth then

how it could be correct,,, nobody is using that ayanamsha,,, so it is personal

of Vinayjhaa,,, , he he he he

< Anup Khanna is diverting a research topic to personal attacks. Why he is so

paasionately against Suryasiddhanta is surprising. I asked him to refute the

astrological evidence of correctness of Suryasiddhanta at following website, at

which 20 case sudies with both Suryasiddhantic and modern methods are presented,

but he refused to discuss, and charged me falsely of " advertisement " , although

I never sold my softwares to anyone :

http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Annual+Rains >

Because SS author is liar,,,and he says that surya bhagwan gave him it and

everybody knows bhagwan cant give wrong computations so lies are self

exposed....

and the link is nothing just your advertisement

PS :- I am forwarding to some 10-20 ids to this mail as my membership have been

deleted by jealous gutter narayan iyer and pvr because i was winning the

discussion, so if anybody cares for truth then pls forward it to VA

In the name of God forward this to VA as anti Hindu PVR and Narayan Iyer has

played the game with true Hindu culture and deleted me from the VA without any

reason as i didnt abuse JHAAA

vedic astrology, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

Mr Anup Khanna is misquoting Vedas. In previous mail he said :

<<< " In YAJURVEDA TAITTERIYA SHAKHA, 4.4.10, in this mantra Bharani is cited as

'ALPHABHARANI' and MOOLA as 'VICHRITI'. " >>>

TS-4.4.10 says " Asvaayujau nakshatram Ashvinau Devataapabharanirna kshatram yamo

Devataa " .

It describes deities of nakshatras Ashvini and Bharani. In this mantra, Bharani

is called Apabharani, which is the full name and means " filler of Apa / waters " .

Bharana is a short name and means merely " filler " .

Mr Anup Khanna did not consult the original text and quoted from some spurious

modern author who talk of Alpha and Beta starts in nakshatras. He does not even

know that " Alpha " is a Greek term and cannot be found in any sanskrit text.

This person quotes Veda falsely, hence it is not surprising that he quotes me

dishonestly too :

<<< " ONLY JHAAA HAD SPILLED VENOM ON ALL WITH HIS AYANAMSHA IN SOME MAIL

I DONT KNOW WHERE IT IS, BUT JHAAA POSTED HERE ONLY ............ JHAA ONLY DOES

POLITICS AND ABUSE ALL ON DIFFT DIFFT GROUPS TO ALL " >>>

What this fellow calls " my " ayanamsha is not my inventon, it is the age old

ayanamsha used by all Indian astrologers from time immemorial, till the

beginning of modern age when some persons invented their own ayanamshas to suit

them. Many softwares are already giving choices for dozens of ayanamshas to

chose from, but I was surprosed to find that Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha was

totally absent from these softwares. Suryasiddhanta is being neglected by a

majority of internet using astrologers, because they think it is outdated.

Hence, among 40-50 types of ayanamshas in vogue Suryasiddhantic ayanamsha is

deliberately being ignored. But few persons know that Raman Ayanamsha and

Yukteshwar Ayanamsha are based on Suryasiddhanta, with minor modifications.

Anup Khanna is diverting a research topic to personal attacks. Why he is so

paasionately against Suryasiddhanta is surprising. I asked him to refute the

astrological evidence of correctness of Suryasiddhanta at following website, at

which 20 case sudies with both Suryasiddhantic and modern methods are presented,

but he refused to discuss, and charged me falsely of " advertisement " , although

I never sold my softwares to anyone :

http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Annual+Rains

-VJ

============ ========= ==

____________ _________ _________ __

khannaanup32 <khannaanup32@ ...>

vedic astrology

Friday, June 26, 2009 12:49:07 AM

[vedic astrology] Fw: Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Re:Rashi in

Vedic literature, the Relev

< You are misusing Shatapatha Brahmana out of context. Shatapatha Brahmana does

not say that Krittika occupied greater space. Krittika rose exactly in the east

while others deviated to some extent or more. >

DEAR PUBLIC LET ME KNOW HAVE I EVER SAID EVEN SINGLE WRONG WORD AGAINST ANY

PERSON LIKE VARAHMIHIR, PARASHARA, JAIMINI, ABOUT ANY ZODIAC SYSTEM.

HAVE I EVER SAID THAT ALL SHOULD BE TRASHED.ALL THOSE PPL HAVE GIVEN THEIR OWN

SYSTEM IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO FOLLOW HE MAY FOLLOW AND NOBODY SHOULD GIVE ABUSES.

I AM PUTTING ONLY FACTS.

HOW MANY PERSONS HERE USE ALL SIDEREAL SYSTEM..ALL USE DIFFT DIFFT AYANAMSHA,

AND NOBODY HAS SAID THAT YOU ARE WRONG, ALL ONLY SAY THAT MY SYSTEM IS GIVING

CORRECT RESULTS.

ONLY JHAAA HAD SPILLED VENOM ON ALL WITH HIS AYANAMSHA IN SOME MAIL

I DONT KNOW WHERE IT IS, BUT JHAAA POSTED HERE ONLY

JHAA ONLY DOES POLITICS AND ABUSE ALL ON DIFFT DIFFT GROUPS TO ALL

vedic astrology, " khannaanup32 " <khannaanup32@ ...>

wrote:

>

> < I think you missed or ignored one of my previous posts in which I gave

details of references from Vedas and related Vedic texts. >

>

> Give that again and also let us know in which context you had given.

>

> < Nakshatras contain unequal number of stars, but it does not mean they are of

unequal divisions. >

>

> I have already replied regarding this in just previous mail

>

> < (Shatbhisaa' s synonymn is Shata-taaraa, I am quoting from your uncle's

commentary). >

>

> Any of my UNCLE dont have any interest in Vedic things(but they do worship and

go emples) and all are in DUBAI as i am from businessman' s family.You are

taking me as wrong person.I am not PRASHANT PANDEY.I have seen his mails on this

and other forums.

>

> < You are misusing Shatapatha Brahmana out of context. Shatapatha Brahmana

does not say that Krittika occupied greater space. Krittika rose exactly in the

east while others deviated to some extent or more. >

>

> i didnt understand your meansing of using and misusing, i am telling only

facts from VEDAS.

>

> < Instead of wasting time over argumentation, why not prove or disprove the

efficacy of nirayan system by means of PRACTICAL >

>

> READING VEDAS, PURANS and VJ is wastage of time, what are you saying.

>

> < Start of asterisms are reckoned either from Ashvini or from Krittikaa, and

both systems are valid in their own spheres. >

>

> for your knowledge some more ion this topic:-

> In VEDAS, NKS are listed from Krittika onwards in their respective order and

the same order has been followed in VJ.

>

> In YAJURVEDA TAITTERIYA SHAKHA, 4.4.10, in this mantra Bharani is cited as

'ALPHABHARANI' and MOOLA as 'VICHRITI'.

>

> In Atharve VEDA, 19.7, their names are the same as known today.

>

> < http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint.. com/page/ Annual+Rains >

>

> this is your advertisement only not link of VERSES of VEDAS, VJ and Purans.

>

> vedic astrology, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

> >

> > Mr Prashant Pandey / Anup Khanna,

> >

> > I think you missed or ignored one of my previous posts in which I gave

details of references from Vedas and related Vedic texts.

> >

> > Nakshatras contain unequal number of stars, but it does not mean they are of

unequal divisions. For instance, Shatbhisaa contains 100 stars (Shatbhisaa' s

synonymn is Shata-taaraa, I am quoting from your uncle's commentary). It cannot

imply that Shatvhishaa occupied 50 times more space than a nakshatra containing

only two taaraas.

> >

> > Start of asterisms are reckoned either from Ashvini or from Krittikaa, and

both systems are valid in their own spheres. For instance, in Vimshottari or in

some Medini chakras like Koormachakra, Krittikaa is taken as the fixed

reference, while in general uses Ashvini is the reference Nakshatra.

> >

> > You are misusing Shatapatha Brahmana out of context. Shatapatha Brahmana

does not say that Krittika occupied greater space. Krittika rose exactly in the

east while others deviated to some extent or more.

> >

> > Instead of wasting time over argumentation, why not prove or disprove the

efficacy of nirayan system by means of PRACTICAL ? See :

> >

> > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Annual+Rains

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> > -VJ

> > ============ ========= ========= =

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Anup Khanna <khannaanup32@ >

> > vedic astrology

> > Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:34:29 AM

> > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Fw: Re: [WAVES-Vedic]

Re:Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relev

> >

> > < The list of 27 is for general purposes, and is based on equal divisions of

Nakshatras. the list of 28 is also based on equal divisions, barring Abhijit

which is used for some particular uses since Vedic times, and lists

> > of both 27 and 28 nakshatras are found in Vedic and post-Vedic ancient

> > texts. read my earlier posts in which I gave detailed references. The

supporters of Mr AKK deliberately neglect all such proofs, keep a mum for some

time, and then start harping their old tune.. >

> >

> > Shatapatha Brahmana 2/1/2/1-4 says, " One should get

> > consecrated in Krittikasâ€¦Krittikas alone consist of many stars. Other

> > asterisms consist of only one or two or three or four stars but Krittikas

> > have many. These are the only stars which do not deviate from the east

> > whereas all the other nakshatras do deviate from the East but not

> > Krittikasâ€¦ "

> >

> > We have to bear in mind that as per these Mantras of

> > the Shatapatha Brahmana, Krittika nakshatra had maximum number of stars..

> > That means that nakshatra divisions in the Vedic time were of unequal

> > dimensions unlike that of the Vedanga Jyotisha! And it also means that

> > apart from Alcyone, there were several other prominent stars in that

> > division.

> >

> > NOW PLEASE DONT COME WITH BRIHAT JATAKA, SS ETC ETC....

> > THOSE ARE JYOTISH WORKS AND IN THAT FOR EASE THEY HAVE TAKEN

> > ALL THINGS OF EQUAL PARTITION.

> >

> > And i have given proof from very old work.Jha, everbody knows about this.I

am surprised after reading your stand.

> >

> > <<<< They were talking of DELPHI star to refer as point of UTTARAYANA. >>>

> >

> > Now from above thing you can get the point that they were talking of ALPHA

DELPHINI, and many Indian astronomer and even Jyotishis also claims same, i can

also give you name of those ppl.Only one great astronomer says that it could be

BETA DELPHINI.

> >

> > < Tropical solar month gives seasons while sidereal solar month controls

that tropical season from its nirayana samkraanti horoscope in Medini Jyotisha.

>

> >

> > Dear Jhaji i am talking of VEDAS and VEDANGA JYOTISH. Now i know many things

have been adulterated.

> >

> > --- On Tue, 23/6/09, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

> >

> > Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ >

> > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Fw: Re: [WAVES-Vedic]

Re:Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relev

> > vedic astrology

> > Tuesday, 23 June, 2009, 8:38 AM

> >

> > Mr Prashant Pandey alias Anoop Khanna alias hundreds of fake IDs,

> >

> > <<< NKS of unequal divisions >>>

> >

> > The list of 27 is for general purposes, and is based on equal divisions of

Nakshatras. the list of 28 is also based on equal divisions, barring Abhijit

which is used for some particular uses since Vedic times, and lists

> > of both 27 and 28 nakshatras are found in Vedic and post-Vedic ancient

> > texts. read my earlier posts in which I gave detailed references. The

supporters of Mr AKK deliberately neglect all such proofs, keep a mum for some

time, and then start harping their old tune.

> >

> > <<< They were talking of DELPHI star to refer as point of UTTARAYANA. >>>

> >

> > Who told you ? Cite some reference or computation.

> >

> > Tropical solar month gives seasons while sidereal solar month controls that

tropical season from its nirayana samkraanti horoscope in Medini Jyotisha.

> >

> > <<< he he he he >>>>

> > ??????

> >

> > -VJ

> >

> > ============ ====== ===

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > khannaanup32 <khannaanup32@ >

> > vedic astrology

> > Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:31:00 AM

> > [vedic astrology] Re: Fw: Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Re:Rashi

in Vedic literature, the Relev

> >

> > SB,

> >

> > < Third question is about Uttarayana occurring in Dhanistha Nakshatra. We

all know that Uttarayana occurs in a Nakshatra for one thousand years and it

first occurred in Dhanistha around 2400 BCE and then it ended around 1400 BCE. >

> >

> > Read VEDAS, in it they have mentioned NKS of unequal divisions and same has

been taken up in VEDANAGA JYOTISH.

> > According to your own statement NKS have been mentioned as cluster of stars

so how it could be of equal divisions.BTW you need to read VEDAS first than

should jump in discussions.

> >

> > Now come to the point.They were talking of DELPHI star to refer as point of

UTTARAYANA. so now count according to calculation based on 50 (as precession).

> >

> > < Tapa as you very well know is the Tropical or Seasonal month starting at

the time of the Uttarayana. >

> >

> > When something is starting from UTTARAYANA than how it could be sidereal..

You are really very funny!!!

> >

> > < Yes, this clarification is needed from you.

> > Probably you will have to quote the definition of Lagna such as " Lagnanam

udou Surya " or whatever you think proper. Correct me if I am wrong. >

> >

> > Is it mentioned in VEDANAGA JYOTISH or VEDAS??BTW some JYOTIHIS have told to

calculate lagna by MOON's movements just to make stories to defend point of

LAGNA.

> >

> > < Now AKK has also a doubt about the Mrigachakra. He says that the

" Bha-chakra " means " Nakshatra-chakra " . He thinks " Mriga-chakra " should also be

" Nakshatra-chakra " . In my opinion the animal representaion is for the Rashi and

not Nakshatra. >

> >

> > SB,i was not expecting that you will talk like this, he he he he,

> > here MRIGA, means MRIGASIRA NKS not DEER(HIRAN) means animal about which you

are thinking

> >

> > --- On Mon, 22/6/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a @>

wrote:

> >

> > Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a @>

> > Re: Fw: Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Re:Rashi in Vedic

literature, the Relevant Chronology and the Sidereal

> >

> > Monday, 22 June, 2009, 4:56 AM

> >

> > Dear Vinay,

> >

> > I think the question asked by Shri Singh is whether by Lagna you can mean

only the Ascendeant (Rising Sun ie. in which the Sun rises in the morning) or

this should also mean the Rising Moon. Yes, this clarification is needed from

you. Probably you will have to quote the definition of Lagna such as " Lagnanam

udou Surya " or whatever you think proper. Correct me if I am wrong.

> >

> > Secondly I am sure you have seen the verse where it is said that Magha, Tapa

in Shukla paksha and Uttarayana occur(ed) together. Tapa as you very well know

is the Tropical or Seasonal month starting at the time of the Uttarayana.. Did

you by any chance goof up anywhere that you are being asked this question?

Goofing up happens once in a way in case of everybody.

> >

> > Third question is about Uttarayana occurring in Dhanistha Nakshatra. We all

know that Uttarayana occurs in a Nakshatra for one thousand years and it first

occurred in Dhanistha around 2400 BCE and then it ended around 1400 BCE. The

question asked means whether you took the beginning of Uttarayana in the

Dhanistha or the ending of Uttaraya in the Dhanistha. I take the beginning of

the occurrence of the Uttarayana as that appears to me to be meaning of that

verse.

> >

> > I think these questions are not tough for a scholar like you.

> >

> > Now AKK has also a doubt about the Mrigachakra. He says that the

" Bha-chakra " means " Nakshatra-chakra " . He thinks " Mriga-chakra " should also be

" Nakshatra-chakra " . In my opinion the animal representaion is for the Rashi and

not Nakshatra. Once you identify the Rashi ithe identification of the Nakshatra

within the Rashi is not a problem at all. After all the imaginary animal

representation came to be used only for identification of the Rashis by the

naked-eye astronomers of the ancient times, otherwise how could they have

distingished the Rashis. Correct me if I am wrong.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Sunil K. BHattacharjya

> >

> > --- On Sun, 6/21/09, singh_ramveer <singh_ramveer@ .in> wrote:

> >

> > singh_ramveer <singh_ramveer@ .in>

> > Fw: Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Re:Rashi in Vedic literature,

the Relevant Chronology and the Sidereal

> >

> > Sunday, June 21, 2009, 2:52 PM

> >

> > < Rg Vedanga Jyotisha verse-19 mentions " Lagna " . The very concept of Lagna

proves that the idea of 12 astrological houses and raashis was present >

> >

> > You have taunted over commentrators as Modern commentartors. Should we

consider you modern or ancient??

> >

> > Now come to the point:-

> >

> > What is the guarantee that Lagna was being find out only by Sun's movement.

> >

> > You would not be aware that Jyotishis have also said that Lagna can also be

calculated by Moon's movement.

> >

> > Except this, you have talked of Jaimini, Brihat Jataka etc etc... which are

not very older works, and even in those works they have not talked of any

ayanamsa.

> >

> > Jha you didnt tell about the verse of Vedanga Jyotish in which there is talk

of Uttarayana, now tell us that Uttarayana doesnt show that they were talking o

seasons.But you dont want to put those verses between public

> >

> > You also have not told us about that verse in which he talksed of Uttarayan

in Dhanista Nks and by taking precesion of 50 we can reach to near about 1500 BC

means time when Vedanaga Jyotish was written.

> > But you challenged ppl that nobody can show that VEDANGA JYOTISH had been

authored in 1500 BC.

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > To Mr Avinash Sathaye (and Mr Sunil Bhattacharjya and all concerned),

> > > >

> > > > Mr Sunil Bhattacharjya had quoted Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha - verse 5: <<<

'Meenan prabhriti RasayaH' means Meena and other Rashis. " >>>

> > > >

> > > > You said : <<< " Please tell us what edition of VJ is this? I cannot

locate this verse

> > > > in my copy at all. I wrote the fifth verse in mine already. I also gave

> > > > the exact reference to my source. Please reciprocate. " >>>

> > > >

> > > > Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha - verse 5 says " Ye Brihaspatinaa bhuktaa Meenat

prabriti Raashayah... "

> > > >

> > > > But

> > > > some modern commentators think that this is a later interpolation.

> > > > Whether it is an interpolation or an original verse, no publisher has a

> > > > right to remove this verse from the text because it is mentioned in the

> > > > extant manuscripts. Throw away such spurious editions.

> > > >

> > > > Both Rg

> > > > and Yaajush branches of Vedanga Jyotisha mention following verse :

> > > > " Nirekam Dvaashashaardhaabda m dvigunam gatsamjnikam, shashtyaa

> > > > shashtyaa yutam dvaabhyaam parvanaa Raashiruchyate. "

> > > >

> > > > Rg Vedanga Jyotisha verse-19 mentions " Lagna " . The very concept of Lagna

proves that the idea of 12 astrological houses and raashis was present.

> > > >

> > > > I wonder why you are doubting such explicit evidences ?

> > > >

> > > > Brihat Jatak says that Riksha is a synonymn of raashi. Riksha is

mentioned as a group of stare in RgVeda 1.24.10

> > > >

> > > > Chhandogya Upanishada is a part of Samveda's Talavakaara Braahmana,

which says that Narada Ji

> > > > was an expert of " Raashi Vidyaa " , in addition to many other vidyaas,

> > > > and this fact is attested by Narada Purana which gives more details of

Astrology including its astronomy than any other Purana.

> > > >

> > > > Now come to Vedic interpretation. You say " mImAMsakas (Mimaansakas) made

their method of interpretation as a logical system with

> > > > rules and deductions which can be consistently applied everywhere. That

> > > > way, even the people who do not agree with them cannot brush them aside

> > > > as just arbitrary interpreters. Yaska in his work also established and

> > > > applied rules illustrated with examples. I wish the believers in the

parokSha meanings would do something comparable. "

> > > >

> > > > The

> > > > method of Mimaansakas is strictly applicable only to karmakaandic

> > > > aspect of Vedic mantras. They neglect the Adhyaatmika aspect almost

> > > > completely, and do not pay attention to other aspects which do not

> > > > concern them. They even distort the original meaning of Jaimini and

> > > > many Mimaansakas have expelled Ishvara and made Mimaansaa almost an

> > > > atheist philosophy, in spite of Jaimini's strict order that if the

> > > > performer of Yajna does not remain " attached to the Omnipotent Main /

> > > > Supreme Being, it is a Dosha (and the Yajna is fruitless " . Kumarila

> > > > Bhatta & c tried to salvage Mimaansaa from the clutches of Asuric

> > > > Mimaansakas.

> > > >

> > > > These " experts " themselves introduce paroksha meaning and ignore the

obvious meaning of mantras. Here is an example :

> > > >

> > > > Rgveda 8.96.8 says : " Trih shashtih tvaa Marutah Vavridhaanaah usraah

iva raashyah.... "

> > > >

> > > > Sayana

> > > > translated " raashayah " as " collections of cows " (:gaava iva

> > > > samgheebhootaaste. ... " ). Let us translate this mantra literally,

> > > > assuming we do not know the meaning of " Raashi " . The mantra says :

> > > >

> > > > " 180 Marutas like Raashis of day make you (Indra) grow... "

> > > >

> > > > In

> > > > his commentary on this mantra, Sayana mentions various numbers of

> > > > Marutas in various mantras. Here, the number is 180, which is clearly

> > > > related to Uttaraayana which is day of the Gods and during which Gods

> > > > like Indra grow. According to Suryasiddhanta and all ancient

> > > > siddhantas, planetary motions are caused by Pravaha Vaayu, which is

> > > > also a part of Marutas. There are many types of Marutas, and here the

> > > > mantra clearly speaks of " 180 Maruts collected like (six) Raashis of

> > > > (divine) day " , but Sayana translated Usraa as " cows " and not as " days " ,

> > > > although Rgveda uses this term in both meanings in various mantras

> > > > according to Monier Williams. 180 days make one divine day from divine

> > > > sunrise (Makara Samkraanti) to divine sunset, during which Indra grows.

> > > > This meaning will automatically connect this mantra's meaning to that

> > > > of Sage Deerghatamas in first mandala (sookta 164) which speaks of 360

> > > > days and 360 nights in a year divided into 12 parts. Why this

> > > > Pratyakshya mening should be replaced with a Paroksha meaning of " cows "

> > > > is surprising !

> > > >

> > > > With Best Regards,

> > > >

> > > > -Vinay Jha

> > > > ============ ========= = =======

> > > >

> > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a@>

> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology; @

. com; vedic_research_ institute; vedic astrology@

. com; indiaarchaeology; @ .

com

> > > > Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:25:13 AM

> > > > Fw: Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Re:Rashi in Vedic

literature, the Relevant Chronology and the Sidereal

> > > >

> > > > --- On Wed, 6/10/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a

@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a @>

> > > > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Re:Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relevant

Chronology and the Sidereal

> > > > WAVES-Vedic

> > > > Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 4:40 PM

> > > >

> > > > Dear Avinash Sathaye,

> > > >

> > > > Firstly you have forgotten that the main issue was whether the Rashis

are mentioned in the Vedic literature or not. There are some people who think

thart the Rashis are imported from the Greeks and that the Rashis are not

mentioned in the Vedic literature. Nobody seems to address this issue... So I

thought that it would be good if I provide some information on that along with

some chronological information. I showed that Rashi is given in the Vedic

literature. Even a single mention of the Rashi is enough to dispel the doubt as

to whether Rashi is there in the Vedic literature or not. I have given the

information and it is upto the Vedic scholars to make their own assessment. Your

mails are already being circulated in some Internet Fora by the interested

people who want to show that the Rashis are not in the Vedic literature and you

now you say :

> > > >

> > > > Quote

> > > >

> > > > I am not proposing the existence or absence of rashis in the Rigveda.

> > > >

> > > > Unquote

> > > >

> > > > It is written in the Mahabharata that before reading the Vedas one has

to read the Puranas and the Epics. This is because otherwise one can

misunderstand the Vedas. You want to interpret the Vedas by going straightway to

the Vedas, though that is against the advice that the Vedas are to be read only

after reading the Puranas. Further the Puranas have been given the status of

fifth Veda. I have also mentioned in my mail about the Brahma Rashi in

Mahabharata and how it became Makar Rashi in the Bhagavata purana. I expected

you to see the Bhagavata purana first if you are really a Vedic scholar. But you

are avoiding the Bhagavata purana, which mentions the Rashis most unambiguously.

Bhagavata purana has direct meanings so one cannot have any confusion about the

meaning. You do not want to admit that the Rashis are mentioned in the Bhagavata

Purana. Moreover you seem to have doubt about the the fact that the Vedic verse

can have more than one

> > > > meaning. If you want clearcut meaning then the Vedas are not for you as

the Vedas dislike the clearcut meaning. So unless one is very profficient in the

knowledge of the Vedas one can always question the meaning of the Vedic verse.

It is for this reason that in the ancient times the uninitiated were not allowed

to read the Vedas. One has to read the Vedangas before reading the Vedas and

that too under a good Vedic scholar. .

> > > >

> > > > If you consider my interpretations of the Vedic verses as assertions and

your interpretations as not assertions I have nothing to say.

> > > >

> > > > Sincerely,

> > > >

> > > > Sunl K. Bhattacharjya

> > > >

> > > > --- On Wed, 6/10/09, Avinash Sathaye <sohum@ edu> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Avinash Sathaye <sohum@ edu>

> > > > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Re:Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relevant

Chronology and the Sidereal

> > > > " Sunil Bhattacharjya " <sunil_bhattacharjy a @>

> > > > Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 9:46 AM

> > > >

> > > > Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya,

> > > >

> > > > I am not proposing the existence or absence of Rashis in the Rigveda..

> > > > All I am asking for is something besides just an assertion that they are

mentioned in the Rigveda.

> > > >

> > > > I will be quite happy to see a meaningful explanation of at least one of

your references in Rigveda which makes it appear as a reference to Rashis and

not what the traditional commentary stipulates.

> > > >

> > > > As you surely know, mImAMsakas made their method of interpretation as a

logical system with rules and deductions which can be consistently applied

everywhere. That way, even the people who do not agree with them cannot brush

them aside as just arbitrary interpreters. . Yaska in his work also established

and applied rules illustrated with examples.

> > > >

> > > > I wish the believers in the parokSha meanings would do something

comparable.

> > > >

> > > > At any rate, if you do not wish to explain further, I will not ask you

any further questions.

> > > >

> > > > Good luck with your future interpretations.

> > > >

> > > > P.S. I still don't understand why you do not mention the edition of the

Vedanga Jyotisha that you are getting your verses from.

> > > > Was that such an unreasonable request?

> > > >

> > > > Sunil Bhattacharjya wrote:

> > > >

> > > > I have given enough information. If you think that the Rashis are not

mentioned in the Vedic literature I have nothing to say. You live with your own

Vedic knowledge.

> > > >

> > > > Sincerely,

> > > >

> > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> > > >

> > > > --- On Tue, 6/9/09, Avinash Sathaye <sohum@ edu> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Avinash Sathaye <sohum@ edu>

> > > > [WAVES-Vedic] Re:Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relevant

Chronology and the Sidereal

> > > > WAVES-Vedic

> > > > Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 4:25 AM

> > > >

> > > > I was happy to see more details from Sunil K. Bhattacharjya.

> > > > However, I still see many problems with the claim of Rashis in the Veda.

> > > > Here are my observations:

> > > >

> > > > SB said:

> > > > A) Rashi in Veda

> > > >

> > > > 1)

> > > > Rarshis are mentioned in the Veda.. Rig Veda (RV) mentions Vrshabha (RV

6.47.5; 8.93.1),

> > > >

> > > > In 6.47.5 vRRiShabha is used as an adjective of Soma. sAyaNa explains it

as " vRRiSheTirjanayitA " - creator of rains, since offering of Soma leads to

rains!

> > > > Could we have a parokSha explanation of the whole verse please!!

> > > > I have already given 8.93.1 in detail. My request to get a parokSha

explanation of it is still not resolved.

> > > >

> > > > SB further said:

> > > > Mithun (RV 3.39.3), Simha (RV 5.83.7; 9.89.3) and Kanya (RV 6.49.7)..

> > > >

> > > > Of these, I quickly checked 6.49.7.. There the word kanyA exists as an

adjective to the Goddess Saraswati.

> > > > Where does one get the Rashi?

> > > > sAyaNa describes as kanyA=kamanIyA.

> > > > Again, pleas give us a complete translation of the whole verse which

justifies the alternate meaning.

> > > > If one were to go by just the Rashi names appearing somewhere, then I

can find many more references in Rigveda(:-))

> > > >

> > > > SB further said;

> > > >

> > > > There is also mention of Kumbha (Rasi), where Agastya and Vasishtha were

born. The verse is :

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Ordinarily Kumbha will mean a pot or kalash but we know that Agastya was

born from the womb of his mother haribhoo and not from a pot. So we understand

that Agastya was born in Kumbha Rashi. Here one has to interpret the metaphors

properly.

> > > >

> > > > Dr.Vartak pointed out the mention of Mesha, Vrischika and Dhanu Rashis

in Veda. He also identified Anas-Ratha with Tula Rashi and Shyena as Meena Rashi

in the Veda. I fully support Dr. Vartak's view as he knows that the Veda itself

says that it has Paroksha and Pratyaksha meaning of the verses.

> > > >

> > > > If, as Dr.. Vartak and SB say this kumbha is a Rashi, then what is the

explanation of the rest?

> > > > The verse is mentioning Mitravaruna dropping equal amount of semen in

the kumbha and from it were born Agastya and Vasishtha.

> > > >

> > > > Could we have a parokSha translation of the whole mantra please? Without

that, we simply have to take the mention of Rashi as an assertion of faith

(perhaps in the great seer Dr. vartak?)

> > > >

> > > > SB frurther said:

> > > >

> > > > 2) Rashi in Vedanga Jyotisha

> > > >

> > > > Meena Rashi is clearly mentioned in the Vedanga Jyotisha (Yajur Vedanga

Jyotisha-verse 5). The verse is :

> > > >

> > > > Ye brihaspatina bhuktva MEENAN prabhriti rasayaH

> > > >

> > > > te hritaH panchabhiryataH yaH seshaH sa parigrihaH

> > > >

> > > > (Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha - sloka 5)

> > > > [

> > > > Here 'Meenan prabhriti RasayaH' means Meena and other Rashis. As Dr..

Vartak points out Meena was called Shyena in the Veda

> > > >

> > > > Please tell us what edition of VJ is this? I cannot locate this verse in

my copy at all. I wrote the fifth verse in mine already. I also gave the exact

reference to my source. Please reciprocate.

> > > > --

> > > >

> > > > With Best Regards,

> > > > Avinash Sathaye

> > > > (859)277-0130 (H) (859)257-8832 (O)

> > > > Web: www.msc.uky. edu/sohum

> > > >

> > > > --

> > > >

> > > > --

> > > > With Best Regards,

> > > > Avinash Sathaye

> > > >

> > > > Web: www.msc.uky. edu/sohum

> > > >

June 27, 2009

No one has guts to refute the analysis I made in 20 case studies which you

falseky call my " advertisement " . In all 20 cases, Suryasiddhanta perfectly

explains the data, while physical astronomy fails to explain even a single case

astrologically. Why running away from a real debate ? Refute the analysis :

________________________________

Thakur Jagmohan Singh <thakurjagmohansingh

vedic astrology

Saturday, June 27, 2009 3:36:27 AM

Fw: Re: Fwd: Re: [vedic astrology] Fw: Re:

[WAVES-Vedic] Re:Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relev

--- On Fri, 6/26/09, Anup Khanna <khannaanup32@ > wrote:

Anup Khanna <khannaanup32@ >

Re: Fwd: Re: [vedic astrology] Fw: Re: [WAVES-Vedic]

Re:Rashi in Vedic literature, the Relev

To:

Friday, June 26, 2009, 9:16 PM

< It describes deities of nakshatras Ashvini and Bharani. In this mantra,

Bharani is called Apabharani, which is the full name and means " filler of Apa /

waters " . Bharana is a short name and means merely " filler " .

Mr Anup Khanna did not consult the original text and quoted from some spurious

modern author who talk of Alpha and Beta starts in nakshatras. He does not even

know that " Alpha " is a Greek term and cannot be found in any sanskrit text. >

Jha is diverting things with kiddish personal attacks, God sake who in India

doesnt know that alpha, betta gamma are not greek words...

JHAA, those kiddish attacks will not prove you that you are scholar, it need

proofs....

but see how much he is degraded to show the mistakes...though it was only

wriotting mistake.....