Rashis once more / Rashis in Hindu Astronomy

[Guest guest]

Dear friends,

 

Shri Mehrotra said that I am more of an astrologer than anything else. If you

permit me to set things right I would say that what Shri Mehrotra said is far

from right.  I am sure that Dr. N.R.Joshi will vouch for me in that I am more of

one involved in studies in areas such as Ancient Indian History  than Astrology.

The paper I presented in the WAVES 2008 conference was on Ancient Indian

History. 

 

My another area of interest is Indian philosphy and Shri Mehrotra is not aware

of that.  

 

Thirdly in  fact I  am more involved in Indian Astronomy than in Indian

astrology. I was probably the first to announce in the recent times that the

 naming the the centuries in the Saptarshi calendar was in a fact  a convention

adopted in 3077 BCE (ie, the date of starting of the Saptarshi era), rather than

an exact astronomical measure. There is indeed a relative movement of the

Saptarshis due to the precession of the Earth  and this movement is to be

assessed according to the procedure given in the Vishnu Purana. Using the

methodology given in the  Vishnu Purana the Astrophysicists  Dr. Mayank Vahia

and his collaboratotors from the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research and 

another Institute in Germany showed how the relative movement of the Saptarshis

could occur but this movement from one Nakshatra to another takes several

centuries (and not 100 years) and that the Saptarshis do not visit all the

Nakshatras.. Till then the

scholars trained in the Western Astronomy had ridiculed the Saptarshi calendar

questioning that how can the fixed stars like Saptarshis move and that too

change their positions from Nakshatra to Nakshatra every 100 years.

 

Very few people really realise that it was the Hindu Astronomy (and not Hindu

Astrology), which was the first to use the Nakshatras and the Rashis. The

ancient astronomers (and they were naked eye astronomers) found that the planets

moved in a band near to the ecliptic or the path of the Sun. They divided the

ecliptic into 27 divisions allotting one division each to each of the 27

nakshatras. The Nakshatras were further made into quarters and we have a total

of 108 quarters from the 27 Nakshatras. Similarly the ecliptic was divided into

12 divisions called Rashis and each Rashi had 9 quarters of  Nakshatras and

these details are given in the Vamana Purana. Chandogya Upanishad also mentions

about the Nakshatra Vidya and the Rashi Vidya.  In the Mahabharata we find the

mention of the fall (ie. going away) of Abhijit Nakshatra from the

ecliptic. Vahia's paper mindicates how the Abhijit became the pole-star.

When Abhijit  was in the ecliptic the

ecliptic was divided into 28 parts and that is how we find the mention of the

Brahma Rashi in the Mahabharata. This Brahma Rashi had a portion of the

Uttarashadha as well as the whole of the Abhijit and the whole of the Sravana. I

am probably the first to show that  the Brahma Rashi of the Mahabharata

corresponds  to the Makar trashi of the Bhagavata Purana. The Makar Rashi had

accommodated a part of the Dhanistha to compensate for the loss of Abhijit. The

need for the Nakshatra and the Rashis to the astronomers is understandable

as without the Nakshatras and the Rashis how could the astronomers have

identified the exact location of the planets at any given time ?   Rashis 

correspond to the 12 spokes mentioned in the Rig Veda as the 12 spokes divides

the periphery (or the ecliptic or the patrh of the Sun) into 12 parts or

segments. It was found that  the Sun moves almost one Rashi in one Synodic Lumar

month  and in the 5 solar year

Yuga period we have  62 synodic months and at the end of the 5 solar year

period the Sun and the Moon are back at the same earlier point in the ecliptic

simultaneously.  

 

There are issues such as which are the starting points of the Rashis. One view

is that we take the point at 180 degrees opposite to Chitra as the start of the

Mesha  Rashi. Chitra is shared equally by the Kanya Rashi and the Tula rashi.

Even Claudius Ptolemy took a similar stand when he considered the Aldabaran

(Rohini) at the center of Taurus (Vrshabh) na thus we know that the Rashis in

the Western astrology also must have been Sidereal or Nakshatra-based. Even

though in day-to-day ause the Western Astrology does not use the Sidereal Rashis

it does give importance to the Siderael Rashis also. For example, the Western

astrologers consider that about 4000  years ago the Vernal Equinox occurred in

Aries and about 2000 years ago the Verna equinox moved to the Pisces, thus

ushering in the Piscean Age. Further soon the Vernal equinox will occur in the

Aquarius and the Aquarian age will start and the world will be very different

from what it was in the

Piscean age.

 

Shri Malhotra is not aware that the Hindu Jyotish shastra consists of the Hindua

Astronomy as well as the Hindu Astrology. I am a member of the Jyotish

groups more because of my interest in the history of the Hindu astronomy  and my

interest in astrology comes onlty next to that. As I have done research work on

the dates of the ancient texts as well as on the dates of a number of great

stalwarts of Hindu Astronomy and Hindu Philosophy I was naturally

disturbed seeing the ill-informed people attempting to lower the antiquity of

the ancient Indian texts and the personalities.

 

For the same historical reason I have been taking interest in Lord Rama's birth

date from the astronomical point of view as His date can best be found

astronomically. Though the  as the birth details are given in the Valmiki

Ramayana in terms of Nakshatras. 

 

Hope this helps the  esteemed members to know how I got involved in the

controversy regarding the dating of the Rashis. Will the members not like to

know about the fields of interest and contributions of Shri Mehrotra ?

 

Regards, 

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Sun, 6/28/09, kk.mehrotra wrote:

 

 

kk.mehrotra

[WAVES-Vedic] Re: Rashis once more

WAVES-Vedic

Sunday, June 28, 2009, 12:38 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Shri Sathaye,

You are absolutely right in saying, " I had personally withdrawn from this

ongoing debate because of the parokSha-vAdins' declaration that they know the

truth and others are never going to see it, except by following their advice.

This, to me, was and is a dead end discussion " .

 

Dr. Bhattacharjya is truly more of an astrologer than anything else, since all

he has been able to " see " in the Vedas and the Puranas etc. etc. is nothing but

a " sidereal zodiac " . I have never seen him discussing anything else about the

Vedic lore or even Pauranic lore. He was even preparing horoscope of Shri Ram as

per his own " sidereal " rashis and perhpas that project is hybernating these

days!

 

Since you have a printed version of Rik and Yajur Jyotisha, which can be

uploaded to the net, it would be much better if you do so in the files section

of WAVES so that the members could form their own opinion.

I also learn that Ranjan Publications, Delhi, have published a detailed Hindi

commentary on the Vedanga Jyotisham by Dr. Suresh Chandra Mishra,

Jyotishacharya, in 2005, and even that commentator has said on page 50 of that

work that that mantra is nothing but an interpolation by some " good for nothing

fellow as Rashis were not known in India at the time of the Vedanga Jyotisha " .

Shri Bhattacharjya also is, therefore, requested to upload the soft version of

his Vedanga Jyotisha, which states that the mantra of Mina Rashi is not an

interpolation but an integral part of the work as mantra No. 5.

 

Dr. Bhattacharjya has thanked profusely Shri Sreenadh in one of the posts of

WAVES for giving him the references of the mantra talking of Mina Rashi in the

Vedanga Jyotisham as the fifth mantra. As such, I do not know whether Shri

Bhattacharjya has himself a copy of such a work that is talking of some Mina

Rashis in the VJ or is he just relying on some one else. If Shri Bhattacharjya

does not have it himself, even then he should arrange it and upload it in the

files section, indicating the publsher and the year of publication, and let the

members form their own opinions.

 

You have said in the end, " It would be interesting to see a discussion of all

this in connection with actual manuscripts " . To the best of my knowledge, this

Mina Rashi shloka as a genuine mantra of the VJ is not available as fifth mantra

in any printed edition, not to speak of it being available in some manuscript.

 

Regarding your pointing out grammatical mistakes in the Mina Rashi mantra, we

must not foget that " parokshya professors " do not bother about such small

things, as they " see only what they want to see " .

Best regards,

K K Mehrotra

 

WAVES-Vedic, Avinash Sathaye wrote:

>

> Dear Friends,

>

> I had personally withdrawn from this ongoing debate because of the

> parokSha-vAdins'

> declaration that they know the truth and others are never going to see

> it, except by following their advice.

> This, to me, was and is a dead end discussion.

>

> However, I can answer a material question by Mehrotraji.

>

> I have now a printed versions of both the Rigveda and Yajurveda versions.

>

> These are from a book by Holay proposing that the Rigveda version was

> based on a 19 year cycle and claiming to decode several more verses of

> the version by using this viewpoint.

>

> I can easily scan and send them to the interested parties or leave them

> on my web page.

> These are a total of 7 pages. The number of respective verses is 36 and

> 43 for Rigveda and Yajurveda versions.

>

> Holay's book gives two extra verses in the Yajurveda version with a

> marker '0 " added to the number, but unfortunately does not give

> explanation about their origin. I imagine these to be doubtful (or less

> frequent) additions.

> One of these is the controversial " mInAn-prabhRRiti " verse, the second

> is an innocent verse listing the topics that Lagadha has discussed.

>

> The controversial verse appears spuriously between two introductory

> verses and since it is proposing to give a formula/definition of

> something called " parigraha " , it clearly does not belong there.

> Note that no Rashis are mentioned in the verse 42-0 in the list of topics.

>

> As a side comment: " mInAn prabhRRiti " has grammar problems. " prabhRRiti "

> takes the pa~nchamI (ablative) case, so it probably should be mInAt.

> However, I don't know any standard Rashi count which begins with mIna.

> Perhaps, the verse comes from a tradition which uses a different start

> for the year!

> It would be interesting to see a discussion of all this in connection

> with actual manuscripts.

>

>

> For everybody's understanding, I am giving the verses under discussion

> from Holay's book.

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

>

> I use Itrans notation:

>

> yathA shikhA mayUrANAM nAgAnAM maNayo yathA |

> tadvadvedA~NgashAst rANAM gaNitaM mUrdhani sthitam || 4

> \[ye bRRihaspatinA bhuktA mInAnprabhRRiti rAshayaH |

> trivRRitAH pa~nchabhirRRitA yaH sheShaH sa parigrahaH ||4-0 \]

> mAghashuklaprapanna sya pauShakRRiShNasamAp inaH |

> yugasya pa~nchavarShasya kAlaj~nAnaM prachakShate || 5

>

> \[ ityevaM mAsavarShANAM muhUrtodayaparvaNAm |

> dinartvayanamAsA~ NgaM vyAkhyAnaM lagato.abravIt ||42-0\]

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> I have copied verses as in the book. Thus the brackets are intentional.

> I suspect there are two typos as well.

> 1. In 4-0:

> trivRRitAH pa~nchabhirRRitA is surely trivRRitAH pa~nchabhirhRRitA

> as RRita is not a mathematical operation, but hRRita is!

> 2. In 42-0:

> The name lagata should have been lagadha, of course.

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> Devnagari display for those who have a good enough browser:

>

> ??? ???? ???????? ??????? ???? ????

> ???????????? ????????? ??? ????? ??????? ???????? 4

> [?? ?????????? ?????? ???????????? ? ??????

> ????????? ??????????? ?? ???? ? ?????????4-0 ]

> ???????????? ?????? ???????????? ????

> ?????? ??????????? ????????? ?????????? 5

>

> [ ??????? ??????????? ???????????? ???????

> ???????????? ?????? ?????????? ???????????? ?42-0]

>

>

>

>

> --

> With Best Regards,

> Avinash Sathaye

>

> Web: www.msc.uky. edu/sohum

>