Subha/Paapa and Soumya/Kroora (On Seeing Deities from the 12th..)

[Guest guest]

Dear Sundeep,

 

Great question!

 

Even if Rahu and Ketu are together, their influence on the 12th house may be

different. One may dominate. So Rahu and Ketu can still give different results.

 

> So, no one can ever attain enlightenment, since if

> Ketu is there, so must Rahu..

 

The verse you refer to says:

 

kArakAMshAd.h vyaye ketau shubhakheTayutexite |

tadA tu jAyate muktiH sAyujyapadamApnuyAt.h || 65||

 

Literal translation is: " If Ketu is in the 12th house from AK's amsa, conjoined

or aspected by a subha planet, then liberation occurs and one joins god's lotus

feet. "

 

The words used in this verse and the next one are " subha " and " paapa " .

 

When Parasara defined these terms, he defined soumya (gentle) and kroora (harsh)

grahas withOUT reference to ascendant and he defined subha (auspicious/benefic)

and paapa (inauspicious/malefic) grahas with reference to ascendant. These terms

are translated as natural benefic/malefic and functional benefic/malefic in

English. Because both pairs of phrases are similar, people mix them up.

 

Jupiter is soumya, but he need not be subha. That depends on lagna (or other

reference used). Saturn is kroora, but he need not be paapa. That depends on

lagna.

 

Parasara used the terms soumya and kroora in some combinations and subha and

asubha/paapa in some. Please note that they are not interchangable!

Unfortunately, translators of Parasara weren't always consistent in their

translation, but I don't think a maharshi would mix up the two pairs of words

and use the wrong word. Take it as a functional benefic when he says subha and

take it as a functional malefic when he says paapa.

 

Soumya means one who is gentle and kroora means one who is harsh. Subha means

one who does good and asubha/paapa means one who does bad. A harsh person can do

you good and a gentle person can harm you.

 

Rahu is a kroora graha, but he can certainly be a subha graha in a chart!

 

I will leave it to you to figure out from which reference the functionality

(beneficence or maleficence) of a planet joining or aspecting Ketu in 12th

should be judged - lagna or AK, in rasi or vimsamsa etc.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

 

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sohamsa , " vedicastrostudent " <vedicastrostudent

wrote:

>

> Dear Narasimhaji,

> While what you say sounds compelling, you know that Rahu and Ketu are always

together in D-20. Did Parasara have verses that gave distinct results for Rahu

and for Ketu in 12th from AK? Why would he do so if he knew for certain that

they'll always be together? Please explain in detail. At least in one

translation I have:

>

> " If Ketu is in the 12th from Karak & #257; & #324; & #347;, receiving a Drishti from

a malefic, or is there yuti with a malefic, one will not attain full

enlightenment. "

>

> Clearly, he is talking about worship and spiritual practices here. So he must

be talking about D-20 according to your rules of inference. So, no one can ever

attain enlightenment, since if Ketu is there, so must Rahu..

>

> Regards,

>

> Sundeep

> >

> > In the chapter called " kaarakaamsa phala " in BPHS, Parasara mentioned the

deities worshipped based on the planets in the 12th from kaarakaamsha. For

example, Sun in 12th from AK shows a worshipper of Shiva and Moon in 12th from

AK shows a worshipper of Gouri.

> >

> > The term " kaarakaamsa " means " AK's amsa " . Amsa only means division. Which

amsa or division is Parasara referring to?

> >

> > Though people jumped to the conclusion that amsa means navaamsa by default,

there is one more important thing to consider here. At the onset itself,

Parasara clarified which amsas (divisions) are used for which purposes. He

clearly said " upaasanaayaaH viGYaanaM saadhyaM viMshati bhaagake " , meaning " the

knowledge of one's worship and spiritual practices is possible in D-20 " .

> >

> > If, having said that at the onset, he defines which deities are worshipped

based on the 12th house from AK in an " amsa " , can the amsa in question be

anything other than D-20?! After all, he clearly said one's upaasanaa is seen

from D-20. So the principles laid out later by Parasara for upaasanaa *must* be

referring to D-20 by " amsa " and *not* D-9 as people normally take.

> >