Guest guest Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Respected Sir, I want to know that if a couple have a serious affair for a longtime, although they are living apart but think each other as a husband wife, will that reflect as a marriage in charts? With Regards Atul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Dear Atul In such cases charts will indicate a living relationship or extra marital affairs. HARESH(HARRY)NATHANI VEDIC ASTROLOGER CELL +91 9867214103 Subscribe on this link <http://in.Chandra-AdityaAstroRemedies> http://in.Chandra-AdityaAstroRemedies For Professional Paid Consultancy mail request for charges to <haresh1405/hareshgnathani haresh1405/hareshgnathani or call +91 9867214103 Skype id haree14 vedic astrology [vedic astrology ] On Behalf Of Dr. A. Bhatla Monday, December 21, 2009 3:38 PM vedic astrology [vedic astrology] Astrological Marriage Respected Sir, I want to know that if a couple have a serious affair for a longtime, although they are living apart but think each other as a husband wife, will that reflect as a marriage in charts? With Regards Atul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Respected Haresh, Thanks for your help. Does this relationship should be regarded as first marriage in charts? for example, This chart is of a boy who had a serious relationship with a girl in college for three years. They neither lived together nor had any physical relatinship. Parents of both sides knew about it and were almost agreed to this. But after college suddenly girl refused to continue. I was approached by the boy for marriage related issue. Affair started in early 2006 and ended in aug-sep 2009. Narayan dasha and vimshottari both explains the start and end of relation. (Or may be I am misinterpreting the placements) So we should take it as a first marriage and take the going to happen formal marriage as second marriage in charts and interpret it as second marriage? DOB: 5 feb 1985 Time: 14:35:37 Place panipat, India Time is rectified with respect to other divisional charts. Kind regards Atul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Respected Haresh, Thanks for your help. Does this relationship should be regarded as first marriage in charts? for example, This chart is of a boy who had a serious relationship with a girl in college for three years. They neither lived together nor had any physical relatinship. Parents of both sides knew about it and were almost agreed to this. But after college suddenly girl refused to continue. I was approached by the boy for marriage related issue. Affair started in early 2006 and ended in aug-sep 2009. Narayan dasha and vimshottari both explains the start and end of relation. (Or may be I am misinterpreting the placements) So we should take it as a first marriage and take the going to happen formal marriage as second marriage in charts and interpret it as second marriage? DOB: 5 feb 1985 Time: 14:35:37 Place panipat, India Time is rectified with respect to other divisional charts. Kind regards Atul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Dear Dr Atul, I feel that until a person is not wedded as per vedic sanskaras, or may we call it unless one is not legally wedded and then the relationship is broken due to vaarious causes, it may not be treated as FIRST marriage ! Though in ancient times there used to be gandharva vivah system also,which was recognised as proper mariage. Now I will put the other scenario,which is same as you have put it, a person may have not one but a number of love affairs also, irrespective of the fact that this affair was consumated like marriage or not, we cannot call all these affairs as first,second,tird marriage and so on. At the most from the horoscope of the person concerned , we may only be able to judge that he has been either a womaniser or has tremendous attractions towards the opposite sex. Further, even after the person is legally wedded and has consumated the marriage and continues affairs or physical affairs, visits red light areas, we can not categorise all such affairs or relations as marriages in his horoscope. t the most we can categorise the person as,Adharmi, Paapi, lose character, character less and whatever. What happenses if one has few planatory positions in his charts, which can always help him hide all his affairs' and except the person concerned, no one can else know about his relationships ? I hope I have been able to help in the matter. With my best regards. Raj Bhardwaj,Sh Aditya Jyotish Kendra, Dera-Bassi (Near Chandigarh), Panjab expert at www.liveperson.com/indoastro-raj/ <http://www.liveperson.com/indoastro-raj/> vedic astrology , " Dr. A. Bhatla " <astrologytree wrote: > > Respected Haresh, > > Thanks for your help. > > Does this relationship should be regarded as first marriage in charts? > > for example, This chart is of a boy who had a serious relationship with a girl in college for three years. They neither lived together nor had any physical relatinship. Parents of both sides knew about it and were almost agreed to this. But after college suddenly girl refused to continue. I was approached by the boy for marriage related issue. > > Affair started in early 2006 and ended in aug-sep 2009. Narayan dasha and vimshottari both explains the start and end of relation. (Or may be I am misinterpreting the placements) > > So we should take it as a first marriage and take the going to happen formal marriage as second marriage in charts and interpret it as second marriage? > > DOB: 5 feb 1985 > Time: 14:35:37 > Place panipat, India > > Time is rectified with respect to other divisional charts. > > Kind regards > Atul > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 om gurave namah Dear Raj Manu Smriti (shastra) clearly explains eight kinds of marriages called Vivaha including Asuri vivaha. I had presented a paper on this topic. Adharma ...there are so many things yyou have said. I say only one 'All's fair in love and war' Best Wishes Sanjay Rath 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762 Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa.com; Books: www.sagittariuspublications.com; Community: www..org vedic astrology [vedic astrology ] On Behalf Of Raj 21 December 2009 08:47 PM vedic astrology [vedic astrology] Re: Astrological Marriage Dear Dr Atul, I feel that until a person is not wedded as per vedic sanskaras, or may we call it unless one is not legally wedded and then the relationship is broken due to vaarious causes, it may not be treated as FIRST marriage ! Though in ancient times there used to be gandharva vivah system also,which was recognised as proper mariage. Now I will put the other scenario,which is same as you have put it, a person may have not one but a number of love affairs also, irrespective of the fact that this affair was consumated like marriage or not, we cannot call all these affairs as first,second,tird marriage and so on. At the most from the horoscope of the person concerned , we may only be able to judge that he has been either a womaniser or has tremendous attractions towards the opposite sex. Further, even after the person is legally wedded and has consumated the marriage and continues affairs or physical affairs, visits red light areas, we can not categorise all such affairs or relations as marriages in his horoscope. t the most we can categorise the person as,Adharmi, Paapi, lose character, character less and whatever. What happenses if one has few planatory positions in his charts, which can always help him hide all his affairs' and except the person concerned, no one can else know about his relationships ? I hope I have been able to help in the matter. With my best regards. Raj Bhardwaj,Sh Aditya Jyotish Kendra, Dera-Bassi (Near Chandigarh), Panjab expert at www.liveperson.com/indoastro-raj/ <http://www.liveperson.com/indoastro-raj/> vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40> , " Dr. A. Bhatla " <astrologytree wrote: > > Respected Haresh, > > Thanks for your help. > > Does this relationship should be regarded as first marriage in charts? > > for example, This chart is of a boy who had a serious relationship with a girl in college for three years. They neither lived together nor had any physical relatinship. Parents of both sides knew about it and were almost agreed to this. But after college suddenly girl refused to continue. I was approached by the boy for marriage related issue. > > Affair started in early 2006 and ended in aug-sep 2009. Narayan dasha and vimshottari both explains the start and end of relation. (Or may be I am misinterpreting the placements) > > So we should take it as a first marriage and take the going to happen formal marriage as second marriage in charts and interpret it as second marriage? > > DOB: 5 feb 1985 > Time: 14:35:37 > Place panipat, India > > Time is rectified with respect to other divisional charts. > > Kind regards > Atul > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Respected sir, I am really thankful for the help extended by Respected Raj ji and Respected Sanjay Rath ji. Doubt still remains in my mind. I know Sanjay ji had answered my query in his favourite way. But this time i was not able to differentiate the 'noise' from the pure hidden knowledge and I know this is because of limitations of my own ability. I request Sanjay ji to please repeat the answer in a little bit more simple way. I know gandharv vivah is reflected in charts and also other types of vivaha and they are counted as marriages. I had seen some examples in Respected PVR ji's lessons. But they all included physical relations and/or living together. But can such type of relationships, where boy and girl are neither living together nor had physical relationship and are really serious about the marriage during the course of relationship, be counted as gandharv vivah? I will be thankful if a little more light is shed. Kind Regards Atul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Dear Atul After going though the chart of the native on the birth details, provided by u, this neither can be considered as marriage of any sort. The chart also does not supports love marriage or any kind of love relationship, but one thing should be considered over here, that during the effect of malefic planet in transit, one develops the love relationship and when the malefic effect of the planet is over, then the love relationship ends and results in some kind of separation. Separation can be by mutual consent also. The native is under Venus maha dasha and has finished its saddi satti in sept 2009. During the long period of saddi satti, struggle in life gives growth to love relationship and they do flourish during the lean period of life. Venus is also the karak planet for love and when its maha dasha on, falling in love and having a long term relation is quite obvious. HARESH(HARRY)NATHANI VEDIC ASTROLOGER CELL +91 9867214103 Subscribe on this link <http://in.Chandra-AdityaAstroRemedies> http://in.Chandra-AdityaAstroRemedies For Professional Paid Consultancy mail request for charges to <haresh1405/hareshgnathani haresh1405/hareshgnathani or call +91 9867214103 Skype id haree14 vedic astrology [vedic astrology ] On Behalf Of Dr. A. Bhatla Monday, December 21, 2009 8:02 PM vedic astrology [vedic astrology] Re: Astrological Marriage Respected Haresh, Thanks for your help. Does this relationship should be regarded as first marriage in charts? for example, This chart is of a boy who had a serious relationship with a girl in college for three years. They neither lived together nor had any physical relatinship. Parents of both sides knew about it and were almost agreed to this. But after college suddenly girl refused to continue. I was approached by the boy for marriage related issue. Affair started in early 2006 and ended in aug-sep 2009. Narayan dasha and vimshottari both explains the start and end of relation. (Or may be I am misinterpreting the placements) So we should take it as a first marriage and take the going to happen formal marriage as second marriage in charts and interpret it as second marriage? DOB: 5 feb 1985 Time: 14:35:37 Place panipat, India Time is rectified with respect to other divisional charts. Kind regards Atul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Dear Doctor Sahib, Doctors pose SUCH difficult questions! But then, their reality is a complex one where answers must be produced in a convincing and simplified manner to the ailing! But maybe you are not one of those kinds of doctors! One can be a Doctor in Literature too (D.Litt.). Anyway, I think you have brought forth an interesting question but then I noted that you have given 'Rectified' times! What if your rectification and choice of dashas or ayanamshas etc that may have been used in rectification were wrong? After all, we all are human, hain naa Sir? I hope I am not upsetting you, but it might be genteel to post the original birthtime with information about why it was considered worthless and had to be rectified etc. Just a suggestion. Please do not take it the wrong way! We are all, after all, searching for the truth and the HOLY GRAIL!! Rohiniranjan vedic astrology , " Dr. A. Bhatla " <astrologytree wrote: > > Respected Sir, > > I want to know that if a couple have a serious affair for a longtime, although they are living apart but think each other as a husband wife, will that reflect as a marriage in charts? > > With Regards > Atul > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Dear Sanjay, You are right, if I understand what you implied between the lines :-) If marriages conducted by Hindu-Mat alone were the true marriages, first, second or third, then this world has a problem! You perhaps do not get the time to see movies etc, but in Gandhi there was a mention of a situation in South Africa when the Christian British Masters had pretty much declared that a 'Hindu Marriage " was in the eyes of the then Rulers Annuled! It was a townhall scene and very upsetting to most of us ordinary people! At what those of Indian origins (not just Hindus, even back then!) had to suffer through. Thank you for reminding all of us about the Broad spirit and INCLUSIVENESS of Hinduism! ;-) Ranjan vedic astrology , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath wrote: > > > > > > om gurave namah > > Dear Raj > > Manu Smriti (shastra) clearly explains eight kinds of marriages called Vivaha including Asuri vivaha. I had presented a paper on this topic. Adharma ...there are so many things yyou have said. I say only one 'All's fair in love and war' > > Best Wishes > > Sanjay Rath > > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762 > > Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa.com; Books: www.sagittariuspublications.com; Community: www..org > > > > vedic astrology [vedic astrology ] On Behalf Of Raj > 21 December 2009 08:47 PM > vedic astrology > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrological Marriage Dear Dr Atul, > > I feel that until a person is not wedded as per vedic sanskaras, or may > we call it unless one is not legally wedded and then the relationship is > broken due to vaarious causes, it may not be treated as FIRST marriage ! > Though in ancient times there used to be gandharva vivah system > also,which was recognised as proper mariage. Now I will put the other > scenario,which is same as you have put it, a person may have not one but > a number of love affairs also, irrespective of the fact that this affair > was consumated like marriage or not, we cannot call all these affairs as > first,second,tird marriage and so on. At the most from the horoscope of > the person concerned , we may only be able to judge that he has been > either a womaniser or has tremendous attractions towards the opposite > sex. Further, even after the person is legally wedded and has consumated > the marriage and continues affairs or physical affairs, visits red > light areas, we can not categorise all such affairs or relations as > marriages in his horoscope. t the most we can categorise the person > as,Adharmi, Paapi, lose character, character less and whatever. What > happenses if one has few planatory positions in his charts, which can > always help him hide all his affairs' and except the person concerned, > no one can else know about his relationships ? I hope I have been able > to help in the matter. With my best regards. > > Raj Bhardwaj,Sh Aditya Jyotish Kendra, Dera-Bassi (Near Chandigarh), > Panjab > > expert at www.liveperson.com/indoastro-raj/ > <http://www.liveperson.com/indoastro-raj/> > > vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40> , " Dr. A. Bhatla " > <astrologytree@> wrote: > > > > Respected Haresh, > > > > Thanks for your help. > > > > Does this relationship should be regarded as first marriage in charts? > > > > for example, This chart is of a boy who had a serious relationship > with a girl in college for three years. They neither lived together nor > had any physical relatinship. Parents of both sides knew about it and > were almost agreed to this. But after college suddenly girl refused to > continue. I was approached by the boy for marriage related issue. > > > > Affair started in early 2006 and ended in aug-sep 2009. Narayan dasha > and vimshottari both explains the start and end of relation. (Or may be > I am misinterpreting the placements) > > > > So we should take it as a first marriage and take the going to happen > formal marriage as second marriage in charts and interpret it as second > marriage? > > > > DOB: 5 feb 1985 > > Time: 14:35:37 > > Place panipat, India > > > > Time is rectified with respect to other divisional charts. > > > > Kind regards > > Atul > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Respected Guru Sanjay Rathji, Pranam ! Yes Guruji, you have summed up very beautifully ! With my best regards and hope I will continue learning from you as hitherto. Raj Bhardwaj vedic astrology , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath wrote: > > > > > > om gurave namah > > Dear Raj > > Manu Smriti (shastra) clearly explains eight kinds of marriages called Vivaha including Asuri vivaha. I had presented a paper on this topic. Adharma ...there are so many things yyou have said. I say only one 'All's fair in love and war' > > Best Wishes > > Sanjay Rath > > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road, New Delhi 110060, India; +91 (011) 4504 8762 > > Readings: www.srath.com; Courses: www.sohamsa.com; Books: www.sagittariuspublications.com; Community: www..org > > > > vedic astrology [vedic astrology ] On Behalf Of Raj > 21 December 2009 08:47 PM > vedic astrology > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrological Marriage Dear Dr Atul, > > I feel that until a person is not wedded as per vedic sanskaras, or may > we call it unless one is not legally wedded and then the relationship is > broken due to vaarious causes, it may not be treated as FIRST marriage ! > Though in ancient times there used to be gandharva vivah system > also,which was recognised as proper mariage. Now I will put the other > scenario,which is same as you have put it, a person may have not one but > a number of love affairs also, irrespective of the fact that this affair > was consumated like marriage or not, we cannot call all these affairs as > first,second,tird marriage and so on. At the most from the horoscope of > the person concerned , we may only be able to judge that he has been > either a womaniser or has tremendous attractions towards the opposite > sex. Further, even after the person is legally wedded and has consumated > the marriage and continues affairs or physical affairs, visits red > light areas, we can not categorise all such affairs or relations as > marriages in his horoscope. t the most we can categorise the person > as,Adharmi, Paapi, lose character, character less and whatever. What > happenses if one has few planatory positions in his charts, which can > always help him hide all his affairs' and except the person concerned, > no one can else know about his relationships ? I hope I have been able > to help in the matter. With my best regards. > > Raj Bhardwaj,Sh Aditya Jyotish Kendra, Dera-Bassi (Near Chandigarh), > Panjab > > expert at www.liveperson.com/indoastro-raj/ > <http://www.liveperson.com/indoastro-raj/> > > vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40> , " Dr. A. Bhatla " > astrologytree@ wrote: > > > > Respected Haresh, > > > > Thanks for your help. > > > > Does this relationship should be regarded as first marriage in charts? > > > > for example, This chart is of a boy who had a serious relationship > with a girl in college for three years. They neither lived together nor > had any physical relatinship. Parents of both sides knew about it and > were almost agreed to this. But after college suddenly girl refused to > continue. I was approached by the boy for marriage related issue. > > > > Affair started in early 2006 and ended in aug-sep 2009. Narayan dasha > and vimshottari both explains the start and end of relation. (Or may be > I am misinterpreting the placements) > > > > So we should take it as a first marriage and take the going to happen > formal marriage as second marriage in charts and interpret it as second > marriage? > > > > DOB: 5 feb 1985 > > Time: 14:35:37 > > Place panipat, India > > > > Time is rectified with respect to other divisional charts. > > > > Kind regards > > Atul > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Respected Sir, I am thankful for the help. I am a Doctor -The one who treats patients :)And I am not upset at all but I am happy for this warm response. Birth time given by the boy was 2:35. I had moved it by just 35 seconds. Although navamsha doesn't change in this rectification. it changes 10 minutes earlier and about 4 minutes later. Kind regards Atul vedic astrology , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Dear Doctor Sahib, > > Doctors pose SUCH difficult questions! But then, their reality is a complex one where answers must be produced in a convincing and simplified manner to the ailing! But maybe you are not one of those kinds of doctors! One can be a Doctor in Literature too (D.Litt.). > > Anyway, I think you have brought forth an interesting question but then I noted that you have given 'Rectified' times! > > What if your rectification and choice of dashas or ayanamshas etc that may have been used in rectification were wrong? After all, we all are human, hain naa Sir? > > I hope I am not upsetting you, but it might be genteel to post the original birthtime with information about why it was considered worthless and had to be rectified etc. > > Just a suggestion. Please do not take it the wrong way! We are all, after all, searching for the truth and the HOLY GRAIL!! > > Rohiniranjan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Respected Sir, Let me recite another example in this regard, Birth data TOB: 5:05 am DOB: 21 march 1975 POB: Ajmer, India person told that this time was recorded by his grandparents at the time of birth. Although time can be halfhour off on each side. He doubted his time because he was not able to make sense out of his chart. He is also an astrology student and wasn't able to make sense of the placements in regard of marriage and navamsha.He wasn't able to explain his marriage and two daughters. some important events in his life A serious affair happened in 1993 last quarter and full 1994. (no living together and no physical relations) Marriage date 30/Nov/2001 Elder daughter Birth details 13/feb/2004 - Ahmedabad(Gujrat) - time 14:30 Younger daughter birth details 7/Dec/2007 - Ahmedabad(gujrat) - time 18:35 I did rectified his time to 5:04:40 am to match the d7 chart. Let us have a look on the chart Vimshottari dasha is applicable in his chart. So I am using the same. His affair happened in Jupiter-saturn-saturn period and broke in Jupiter-saturn-mars period.In D9, an affair is explained by Moon(A7 dispositor)+venus(7L)+5H+5L 7L in 8H also shows short term first marriage and/or problems in first marriage and a happy second marriage. Also affair was broken in mars subperiod (in conjunction with 7L, exchanging roles) His formal marriage happend just after jupiter-venus period ended and jupiter-sun-sun period started. jupiter is 2H lord (8th from 7th) and sun is 10L in 10H bhoga comes in 9H. So it is quite likely to give second marriage. Interestingly, In rashi chart, there is another story. Is this because of it was 1st physical marriage? In D7 for her daughters, (after rectifying time to 5:04:40) If we consider formal marriage as first marriage, then it shows first male child and second female child. But if we consider it as second marriage, then it shows two daughters. (first daughter in his D7 is taken from taurus lagna and 2nd from libra) and characteristics of daughters match with his D7 chart and respectively taurus and libra lagna. Interestingly, and to support this, when we see his daughters charts, first daughter clearly shows strong venusian influence in all major divisional charts and 2nd daughter shows strong jupiter influence in all major charts. birth details of daughters are also included in this email. I request you to please have a look in the chart and give your view. May be I am missing something in my analysis and moving on the wrong track. Kind regards Atul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Dear Atul_ji, I admire physicians & surgeons who are even-tempered :-) After all, all the misery and losses that you see daily and have perhaps for many years and all the 'human' stories tend to make them gain a very broad perspective and if they have a serious interest in astrology then it is Sonay main Suhaga! Multi-dimensional Mind! The utilization of event/trait matching with dasas has been recommended as a useful tool for rectifying birthtimes, as I believe you have been using. However, it is very sensitive to Ayanamsha. Many on Internet tend to use Lahiri ayanamsha but there is one confounder! Many, if not most jyotishis on internet are products or associates of a few schools and lineage who prefer to use Lahiri Ayanamsha. I have been recently told by someone that despite the obvious impression and belief one has based on Internet, many Jyotishis in India (a high proportion of whom do not have internet and are practicing Jyotish mostly locally) are using not just other ayanamshas riding on NASA JPL/Swiss Ephemeris calculations, but other methods of calculating longitudes etc as well (Surya Siddhanta for instance as one example). PVR has recently written about Jagannath Ayanamsha, which involves not just a monotonic shift from Tropical values but varies! Using charts with uncertain birthtimes, which very challenging, runs a risk of faulty conclusions because the Pivot is not placed where it should! But good luck with your research. Regards, Rohiniranjan vedic astrology , " Dr. A. Bhatla " <astrologytree wrote: > > Respected Sir, > > I am thankful for the help. I am a Doctor -The one who treats patients :)And I am not upset at all but I am happy for this warm response. > > Birth time given by the boy was 2:35. I had moved it by just 35 seconds. Although navamsha doesn't change in this rectification. it changes 10 minutes earlier and about 4 minutes later. > > Kind regards > Atul > > > > vedic astrology , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Dear Doctor Sahib, > > > > Doctors pose SUCH difficult questions! But then, their reality is a complex one where answers must be produced in a convincing and simplified manner to the ailing! But maybe you are not one of those kinds of doctors! One can be a Doctor in Literature too (D.Litt.). > > > > Anyway, I think you have brought forth an interesting question but then I noted that you have given 'Rectified' times! > > > > What if your rectification and choice of dashas or ayanamshas etc that may have been used in rectification were wrong? After all, we all are human, hain naa Sir? > > > > I hope I am not upsetting you, but it might be genteel to post the original birthtime with information about why it was considered worthless and had to be rectified etc. > > > > Just a suggestion. Please do not take it the wrong way! We are all, after all, searching for the truth and the HOLY GRAIL!! > > > > Rohiniranjan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Dear Atulji, I will make attempt to explain the point of view. Friendships are created and forgotten between boys and girls in schools,colleges, some remain friends,some go their own way. In astrology such friendships cannot be termed as marriage under any rule, whatsoever. Friendship can be judged from 11th house; and it can include friendship with any gender. Therefore taking the friendship,where even any proposal for marriage may have been refused by one of the friend, as break in marriage is incorrect, in Astrology. As you also know the background and have been able to see such an event from the boy's birth chart, you have feeling that it may be termed as `break in first marriage'. I feel this is not based on any astrological rule. For marriages, we judge horoscope from position of 7th lord, Dara Karaka , placement of Sambanth Vichhedak planets, badhak planet, planatery drishti on houses/Grahas related to marriage, Ashtkvarga strength and FINALLY the judgement is arrived at from Uppada lagna. To confirm the event, we also have to analyse the planetary dashas , and Narayan Dashas of D-1 and D-9, for confirming the timings of the events. Having done so, if we are able to see problems in married life which has the strength to create a situation for break in marriage, the very important step we must advice any Jataka and his parents are to get proper match making done by an expert vedic astrologer and do needed upayas, if the marriage has not taken place. If we come across a case where marriage has taken place but appears to be on rocks, still it can be saved by different upayas, with the condition that the couple is very genuine in saving the marriage. However, the break in marriage can also happen due to medical reasons, demise of one partner, and the other partner , wants to get re-married for personal, family, social, economic reasons. In some cases it can also so happen, especially in India, where a proper engagement ceremony has taken place in the society and the promise of marriage is broken due to some reason or the other, and after this event, we examine his/her birth chart, such event can also appear, if we examine all the rules mentioned above, and we can try to gently confirm from the person whether such thing has happened. I have experienced that on some occasions persons do agree but many a times they deny, depending upon their personality traits. I earnestly hope that I have been able to give convincing astrological view in the doubt raised by you, with my little knowledge. With my best wishes. Raj Bhardwaj -- In vedic astrology , " Dr. A. Bhatla " <astrologytree wrote: > > Respected sir, > > I am really thankful for the help extended by Respected Raj ji and Respected Sanjay Rath ji. > > Doubt still remains in my mind. I know Sanjay ji had answered my query in his favourite way. But this time i was not able to differentiate the 'noise' from the pure hidden knowledge and I know this is because of limitations of my own ability. > > I request Sanjay ji to please repeat the answer in a little bit more simple way. I know gandharv vivah is reflected in charts and also other types of vivaha and they are counted as marriages. I had seen some examples in Respected PVR ji's lessons. But they all included physical relations and/or living together. > > But can such type of relationships, where boy and girl are neither living together nor had physical relationship and are really serious about the marriage during the course of relationship, be counted as gandharv vivah? > > I will be thankful if a little more light is shed. > > Kind Regards > Atul > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Respected Rohini Ji and Raj Ji, Thanks again for valuable opinion. for ayanamsya, I agree with you that ayanamsya is always a point of confusion with us. Different astrologers use different ayanamsya and they get different results sometimes. In latest article About Statitionary transits, Respected PVR Narasimha rao ji explained some examples using Jagannatha ayanamasya. They seem to fit well. Similarly, there are a number of calculations for ayanamsya. Due to this reason, I prefer to stick to Lahiri ayanamsya and instead of depending on time I rectify the ascendents of appropriate divisional charts. Besides ayanamsya, coordinates and time recorded are also source of error. Time recorded at time of birth is usually +/- 5 minutes. And sometimes these 5 minutes lead to a big difference. So I always try to rectify lagnas before making an analysis. For me this is working very well and I am satisfied with this. I thought I should share my experience about this with you. This I learnt from the lessons of PVR Ji although. I agree with you that ayanamasya is serious calculation issue for astrology. For Reflection of marriages in charts, Sir, I agree with you here also that an effective marriage is reflected in horoscopes in certain dimensions. But I was confused with the 'definition of marriage' In PVR Ji's lessons it is shown that serious relationships does reflect in horoscopes. I my experiences I saw that serious relationships like live-in relationships, and serious " fled-from-home " marriages are also reflected in horoscopes. Respected Sanjay Rath ji also described Marriage in a similar way. In last few months I noticed that even serious relationships (no living together and not physical relations) also reflect in horoscopes. I saw in some horoscopes. But again I found that not all relationships are reflected as marriage. But some serious relationships, where both parties were involved and spent some time after accepting each other as spouses were reflected in horoscopes. I agree with you that in such cases people tend to hide facts and also exact dates are not available as to be calculated as events. So I experimented with the charts of people who didnot hide facts and were willing to cooperate in the study. Like in 2nd example of an Ajmer born astrology student. We tried to rectify the time/ascendent for +/- one hour possibility but were not able to explain all the divisional charts. sometimes we were able to explain his marriage but not his profession and sometimes vice versa. Then we decided to included relationship as marriage and everything started setting in place like solved jigsaw puzzle. After that I tried in some other charts and it made sense. I have two more charts which explains similar conditions but the natives are not willing to share their birth details in this . I will try to find some more charts to see whether this possibility is right or wrong. I will like to clarify that this is just a hypothesis yet and I had not reached any conclusion. this is just a doubt and I wanted to discuss here with all of you so that I can get some light. And I know there is no better place to discuss this I request both of you and Respected PVR Ji and Respected Sanjay Ji to shed some light on this confusion. I hope I will get something productive from all of you With Regards Atul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Respected Seniors, I think some charts will be able to explain our confusion. Some people can volunteer to cooperate with this study I will like to study some charts so that we can clear confusions from our mind. I invite some people who had serious relationships in past and are now married to share their birth details and experience with us so that we can get something conclusive in this regard. Identity (name, address, profession, email) will be kept secret. Any member of the group who is willing to donate some time to study can contact me at my email: astrologytree or can contact me through my blog www.astrologytree.net or through forum www.astrologytreeforum.net I shall be very thankful for any contribution Kind regards Atul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Dear Doctor, Here is the " acid-test " for astrological parameters, in my opinion and experience :-) When the parameters chosen begin to and continue to work (with no Natakbaji involved, of course, like we do see from time to time on the jyotish scene -- maybe not on internet ;-)) -- the jyotishi gets more and more confident, because Jyotish despite its religious overtones and so on, is about empiricism (observations). With continuing success, questions and doubts about stuff like ayanamsha etc diminish and the jyotishi can then move further. Questions and opinions about most Jyotish parameters are not new and perhaps have lasted much longer than most of us have lived in this lifetime! And it is not as simple as the perennial statement that experts pronounce and some have rather forcefully written in their books and booklets and articles etc, paraphrased: " This is the way the Fat Lady sings, and the rest of the Universe is sadly mistaken! " Since you are a medical man, surely you realize that there are different ways of treating a disease or doing an operation for any given condition, or else such fat and superexpensive tomes and oodles of research papers would not have gotten written and billions of dollars spent! Another thing to ponder upon is simply this: If one of the many different medications begins to work and controls the infection or the diabetes or blood pressure or whatever, would it be wise to tinker with the type of medication or the dose! One of the wise doctors once told me, " If it ain't broken, do not fix it! " . Interestingly enough, that doctor was also a good jyotishi and followed the same principle in his jyotish practice. Warm regards, Rohiniranjan vedic astrology , " Dr. A. Bhatla " <astrologytree wrote: > > Respected Rohini Ji and Raj Ji, > > Thanks again for valuable opinion. > > for ayanamsya, I agree with you that ayanamsya is always a point of confusion with us. Different astrologers use different ayanamsya and they get different results sometimes. In latest article About Statitionary transits, Respected PVR Narasimha rao ji explained some examples using Jagannatha ayanamasya. They seem to fit well. Similarly, there are a number of calculations for ayanamsya. > > Due to this reason, I prefer to stick to Lahiri ayanamsya and instead of depending on time I rectify the ascendents of appropriate divisional charts. Besides ayanamsya, coordinates and time recorded are also source of error. Time recorded at time of birth is usually +/- 5 minutes. And sometimes these 5 minutes lead to a big difference. So I always try to rectify lagnas before making an analysis. For me this is working very well and I am satisfied with this. I thought I should share my experience about this with you. This I learnt from the lessons of PVR Ji although. > > I agree with you that ayanamasya is serious calculation issue for astrology. > > For Reflection of marriages in charts, > > Sir, I agree with you here also that an effective marriage is reflected in horoscopes in certain dimensions. But I was confused with the 'definition of marriage' > > In PVR Ji's lessons it is shown that serious relationships does reflect in horoscopes. I my experiences I saw that serious relationships like live-in relationships, and serious " fled-from-home " marriages are also reflected in horoscopes. Respected Sanjay Rath ji also described Marriage in a similar way. > > In last few months I noticed that even serious relationships (no living together and not physical relations) also reflect in horoscopes. I saw in some horoscopes. But again I found that not all relationships are reflected as marriage. But some serious relationships, where both parties were involved and spent some time after accepting each other as spouses were reflected in horoscopes. > > I agree with you that in such cases people tend to hide facts and also exact dates are not available as to be calculated as events. So I experimented with the charts of people who didnot hide facts and were willing to cooperate in the study. > > Like in 2nd example of an Ajmer born astrology student. We tried to rectify the time/ascendent for +/- one hour possibility but were not able to explain all the divisional charts. sometimes we were able to explain his marriage but not his profession and sometimes vice versa. Then we decided to included relationship as marriage and everything started setting in place like solved jigsaw puzzle. > > After that I tried in some other charts and it made sense. I have two more charts which explains similar conditions but the natives are not willing to share their birth details in this . I will try to find some more charts to see whether this possibility is right or wrong. > > I will like to clarify that this is just a hypothesis yet and I had not reached any conclusion. this is just a doubt and I wanted to discuss here with all of you so that I can get some light. > > And I know there is no better place to discuss this > > I request both of you and Respected PVR Ji and Respected Sanjay Ji to shed some light on this confusion. I hope I will get something productive from all of you > > With Regards > Atul > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Dear Atul, This being a rather " senisitive " area, I am sure you as a doctor of medicine realize, and we have no doubts about your ability to keep personal information confidential, after all you had to take Hippocrates' Oath before they gave you your degrees, but it may be helpful for people to hear exactly what your research protocol is. Please do not feel that we are trying to run a peer-review of a grants committee here or anything like that, but certain points would be helpful: Why are you doing this research? What would the anticipated results (whether they accept or reject the hypothesis) achieve? For that matter, what *is* your hypothesis? What is the current size of your sample-bed, in the pilot that you have conducted? Or is this the pilot that you are proposing to test? You have introduced your 'topic' with two rectified data, one off by a few seconds and the other off by close to an hour or more! You do have other data in your databank, I hope which you used to pilot your project? Is there a personal stake involved? A personal experience or of someone close, that motivated you to embark on this research? Merry Christmas, RR_' vedic astrology , " Dr. A. Bhatla " <astrologytree wrote: > > Respected Seniors, > > I think some charts will be able to explain our confusion. Some people can volunteer to cooperate with this study I will like to study some charts so that we can clear confusions from our mind. > > I invite some people who had serious relationships in past and are now married to share their birth details and experience with us so that we can get something conclusive in this regard. Identity (name, address, profession, email) will be kept secret. > > Any member of the group who is willing to donate some time to study can contact me at my email: astrologytree or can contact me through my blog www.astrologytree.net or through forum www.astrologytreeforum.net > > I shall be very thankful for any contribution > Kind regards > Atul > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 Respected Rohini Ji, I am highly thankful for your guidance. I will try to explain something about this study. Infact it is just a start and not at a very big scale. I am not well versed with research terminology. So please tell me if there is any mistake. Hypothesis is " Serious Relationships without physical relations/live-in relations reflect in horoscope as marriage " If we find supporting evidence results will accept the hypothesis. I had found in five charts so far that this hypothesis held true. These five cases had following points in common 1) Both boys and girls were involved in the affair seriously 2) Both boys and girls did not had physical relations and/or live-in relations 3) Relation continued for more than one year. Sample size has not been decided yet. Although more the merrier. Following criteria should be met when including a unit in sample 1) Both boys and girls should be involved in the affair seriously 2) Both boys and girls must not have physical relations and/or live-in relations 3) Relation must continue for more than one year. For further evaluation and verifying I need following criteria to met 4) Native should be married now. 5) If native is having children, then it will be preferaby good. 6) Source of time should be known and time should be as accurate as possible. 7) Native should agree that his event time line and birthdata will be shared in this group. Although All the information like name, address, email, current location which can reveal a person's identity will be kept secret. I think This information is enough to answer all important queries. If any person have nay doubt or want more information I will be happy to answer all the queries Kind Regards Atul vedic astrology , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Dear Atul, > > This being a rather " senisitive " area, I am sure you as a doctor of medicine realize, and we have no doubts about your ability to keep personal information confidential, after all you had to take Hippocrates' Oath before they gave you your degrees, but it may be helpful for people to hear exactly what your research protocol is. Please do not feel that we are trying to run a peer-review of a grants committee here or anything like that, but certain points would be helpful: > > Why are you doing this research? > > What would the anticipated results (whether they accept or reject the hypothesis) achieve? > > For that matter, what *is* your hypothesis? > > What is the current size of your sample-bed, in the pilot that you have conducted? Or is this the pilot that you are proposing to test? You have introduced your 'topic' with two rectified data, one off by a few seconds and the other off by close to an hour or more! You do have other data in your databank, I hope which you used to pilot your project? > > Is there a personal stake involved? A personal experience or of someone close, that motivated you to embark on this research? > > Merry Christmas, > > RR_' > > > > vedic astrology , " Dr. A. Bhatla " <astrologytree@> wrote: > > > > Respected Seniors, > > > > I think some charts will be able to explain our confusion. Some people can volunteer to cooperate with this study I will like to study some charts so that we can clear confusions from our mind. > > > > I invite some people who had serious relationships in past and are now married to share their birth details and experience with us so that we can get something conclusive in this regard. Identity (name, address, profession, email) will be kept secret. > > > > Any member of the group who is willing to donate some time to study can contact me at my email: astrologytree@ or can contact me through my blog www.astrologytree.net or through forum www.astrologytreeforum.net > > > > I shall be very thankful for any contribution > > Kind regards > > Atul > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 Dr. Atul, Thank you very much for taking the time out of your busy schedule to elaborate your study-plan. Sounds like a very interesting study. Please understand that I was/am not trying to 'guide' your endeavour but was curious to find out about it :-) One of the conditions that you have, namely #4, for clarity I ask, " Did you mean they are married to one another or simply married (to different partners than the one they had the non-conjugal relationship with? " Also, does this mean that those who had the intense relationship but which did not materialize into a marital or living together relationship would be eliminated? My suggestion would be to include those too, since you may find out that in their cases too the 'relationship' would perhaps be indicated as a 'marriage-like relationship astrologically. Just a guess...! RR_, vedic astrology , " Dr. A. Bhatla " <astrologytree wrote: > > Respected Rohini Ji, > > I am highly thankful for your guidance. > > I will try to explain something about this study. Infact it is just a start and not at a very big scale. I am not well versed with research terminology. So please tell me if there is any mistake. > > Hypothesis is " Serious Relationships without physical relations/live-in relations reflect in horoscope as marriage " > > If we find supporting evidence results will accept the hypothesis. > > I had found in five charts so far that this hypothesis held true. These five cases had following points in common > > 1) Both boys and girls were involved in the affair seriously > 2) Both boys and girls did not had physical relations and/or live-in relations > 3) Relation continued for more than one year. > > Sample size has not been decided yet. Although more the merrier. > > Following criteria should be met when including a unit in sample > > 1) Both boys and girls should be involved in the affair seriously > 2) Both boys and girls must not have physical relations and/or live-in relations > 3) Relation must continue for more than one year. > > For further evaluation and verifying I need following criteria to met > > 4) Native should be married now. > 5) If native is having children, then it will be preferaby good. > 6) Source of time should be known and time should be as accurate as possible. > 7) Native should agree that his event time line and birthdata will be shared in this group. Although All the information like name, address, email, current location which can reveal a person's identity will be kept secret. > > I think This information is enough to answer all important queries. If any person have nay doubt or want more information I will be happy to answer all the queries > > Kind Regards > Atul > > vedic astrology , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Dear Atul, > > > > This being a rather " senisitive " area, I am sure you as a doctor of medicine realize, and we have no doubts about your ability to keep personal information confidential, after all you had to take Hippocrates' Oath before they gave you your degrees, but it may be helpful for people to hear exactly what your research protocol is. Please do not feel that we are trying to run a peer-review of a grants committee here or anything like that, but certain points would be helpful: > > > > Why are you doing this research? > > > > What would the anticipated results (whether they accept or reject the hypothesis) achieve? > > > > For that matter, what *is* your hypothesis? > > > > What is the current size of your sample-bed, in the pilot that you have conducted? Or is this the pilot that you are proposing to test? You have introduced your 'topic' with two rectified data, one off by a few seconds and the other off by close to an hour or more! You do have other data in your databank, I hope which you used to pilot your project? > > > > Is there a personal stake involved? A personal experience or of someone close, that motivated you to embark on this research? > > > > Merry Christmas, > > > > RR_' > > > > > > > > vedic astrology , " Dr. A. Bhatla " <astrologytree@> wrote: > > > > > > Respected Seniors, > > > > > > I think some charts will be able to explain our confusion. Some people can volunteer to cooperate with this study I will like to study some charts so that we can clear confusions from our mind. > > > > > > I invite some people who had serious relationships in past and are now married to share their birth details and experience with us so that we can get something conclusive in this regard. Identity (name, address, profession, email) will be kept secret. > > > > > > Any member of the group who is willing to donate some time to study can contact me at my email: astrologytree@ or can contact me through my blog www.astrologytree.net or through forum www.astrologytreeforum.net > > > > > > I shall be very thankful for any contribution > > > Kind regards > > > Atul > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2009 Report Share Posted December 26, 2009 Respected Rohini Ji, Thanks Again for correcting me. I will like to include the persons in study who are married to someone else and not to the person they were involved in marriage. This way we will be able to distinguish between first marriage and second marriage. I had corrected #4 requirement and now the corrected version is included below in this mail. ******** I will try to explain something about this study. Infact it is just a start and not at a very big scale. I am not well versed with research terminology. So please tell me if there is any mistake. Hypothesis is " Serious Relationships without physical relations/live-in relations reflect in horoscope as marriage " If we find supporting evidence results will accept the hypothesis. I had found in five charts so far that this hypothesis held true. These five cases had following points in common 1) Both boys and girls were involved in the affair seriously 2) Both boys and girls did not had physical relations and/or live-in relations 3) Relation continued for more than one year. Sample size has not been decided yet. Although more the merrier. Following criteria should be met when including a unit in sample 1) Both boys and girls should be involved in the affair seriously 2) Both boys and girls must not have physical relations and/or live-in relations 3) Relation must continue for more than one year. For further evaluation and verifying I need following criteria to met 4) Native should be married now, to the person other than they were involved in relationship with. 5) If native is having children, then it will be preferaby good. 6) Source of time should be known and time should be as accurate as possible. 7) Native should agree that his event time line and birthdata will be shared in this group. Although All the information like name, address, email, current location which can reveal a person's identity will be kept secret. I think This information is enough to answer all important queries. If any person have nay doubt or want more information I will be happy to answer all the queries Kind Regards Atul www.astrologytree.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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