Justification of Divisional Longitudes (Transit of Nakshatra..)

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Busy persons sometimes make incomplete statements which may induce the

readers to make erroneous conclusions. This time, PVR does so :

 

" Exact longitude and latitude of birthplace does not affect the

geocentric longitudes of planets. A few minutes of error in the

birthtime changes the D-60 divisional longitudes of planets, other than

Moon, by only a few arc-min. So it is a non-issue. In case of Moon, his

D-60 divisional longitude can change by upto a deg if birthtime is off

by a minute. "

 

Daily motion of distant planets is small as compared to Moon. Hence,

PVR's statement is correct. But he forgot that Lagna changes very

quickly. On the average, half a degree of error in longitude of

birthplace makes nearly half a degree of error in Lagna and the

consequent error in first house of D60 is of 30 degrees ! Similarly, on

an average one raashi in Lagna lasts for two hours, which means two

minutes of error in birthtime causes an error of half a degree error in

Lagna and 30 degrees of error in D60. On the average, 15 degrees of

error will cause a change of one raashi in D60. Hence, birthtime must

not have an inaccuracy of above one minute at most. If we take into

account observational inaccuracies in birthtime, we must strive to have

even a much smaller inaccuracy in birthtime if we want a correct D60.

 

Thus, although PVR was not wrong in what he wrote, neglecting the effect

on Lagna will mislead the readers.

 

-Vinay Jha

================= ===

vedic astrology , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr

wrote:

>

> Namaste,

>

> Modern software has a precision of a few arc-sec in calculating the

physical (D-1) longitudes of planets. Thus, D-60 longitudes have a

precision of a few arc-min. If you see the kind of analysis I am doing,

this is more than sufficient.

>

> Exact longitude and latitude of birthplace does not affect the

geocentric longitudes of planets. A few minutes of error in the

birthtime changes the D-60 divisional longitudes of planets, other than

Moon, by only a few arc-min. So it is a non-issue. In case of Moon, his

D-60 divisional longitude can change by upto a deg if birthtime is off

by a minute.

>

> Thus, we can be reasonably confident of the D-60 divisional longitudes

of planets other than Moon (and Moon too if we are confident of the

birthtime).

>

> * * *

>

> Lagna is quite sensitive and knowing the D-60 longitude (or even D-60

sign) of lagna is difficult. What this means is that you need to rectify

the chart with some events and verify with some more events, before you

can rely on it.

>

> * * *

>

> The remaining factor is ayanamsa. As a matter of fact, I did not make

much headway in my research into divisional longitudes when I was using

Lahiri ayanamsa. Only after I came up with Jagannatha ayanamsa (a

variation of Lahiri ayanamsa which I finally revealed to the world in

mid-2008), I started to make headway.

>

> A few arc-min of error in ayanamsa can change physical (D-1)

longitudes of planets by a few arc-min and the divisional longitudes in

D-60 by a few deg. That would be a problem.

>

> Unlike Lahiri ayanamsa and other ayanamsas based on *arbitrary* zero

ayanamsa dates (i.e. there is scope for some adjustment), Jagannatha

ayanamsa used by me is logically based on some rigid parameters.

>

> In Lahiri ayanamsa, start of the zodiac *fluctuates* around 180 deg

from Chitra star. In Jagannatha ayanamsa, it is *fixed* at 180 deg from

Chitra star at all times. Secondly, the 2-dimensional plane on which

planets are projected for finding longitudes fluctuates in Lahiri

ayanamsa and it is fixed in Jagannatha ayanamsa. In Lahiri ayanamsa, the

planetary longitudes in birth chart and planetary longitudes in transit

chart are projected on two *different* 2-dimensional planes. Correlating

them as a part of transit analysis is like comparing apples and oranges.

The points of, say, 12Vi30 in rasi chart and 12Vi30 in transit chart are

based on projecting planets on two different planes and using slightly

different points as the zero deg point! In Jagannatha ayanamsa, we take

the mean Sun-earth plane (also known as Vishnu nabhi plane) that is

fixed and the start of zodiac is fixed at 180 deg from Chitra star's

projection on that plane. So natal chart and

> transit charts are based on projecting the planetary longitudes onto

the *same* 2-dimensional plane.

>

> In my opinion, Jagannatha ayanamsa is correct. It is very close to

Lahiri ayanamsa, but differs in some important ways. As a result of

these differences, it is logical, consistent and systematic. It is

well-suited for unearthing specific and precise rules for correlating

natal and transit longitudes, as these longitudes are based on the same

plane and a consistent zero point. As the zero point and the plane

fluctuate from one day to another with standard ayanamsas such as

Lahiri, you are unlikely to find any consistent results.

>

> As a matter of fact, it was only based on several fine techniques

depending on precise longitudes, such as divisional longitude based

transits and Tithi Pravesha, that I got confidence in Jagannatha

ayanamsa during my early research!

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

> -

> Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

> " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

> http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

> Spirituality:

> Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> -

>

> , " a_violet_in_twilight "

a_violet_in_twilight@ wrote:

> >

> > Dear Narasimha,

> >

> > Namaste.

> >

> > Thank you for the explanation of divisional longitudes. However, the

following question still remains unanswered for me.

> >

> > How precisely should we know the longitude in D1 to get longitudes

in higher divisions than D60? Is it really possible by the measurement

standards we have?

> >

> > For example, 30 min in D1 will be one rasi (or 30 deg) in D60. From

your explanation below, it means to know up to 1 deg precision in D60,

we must to know longitude up to 1 min precision in D1. Then we need to

know longitudes in D1 with increasing precision to get minutes and

seconds for longitudes in D60 or higher.

> >

> > Is it possible in reality given the variations in birth location,

and time? Can we reliably measure up to a second or a fraction of second

precision in D1 longitudes?

> >

> > I would greatly appreciate your comments on the above.

> >

> > Best regards,

> > SK

> >

> > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao " <pvr@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Namaste friends,

> > >

> > > Parasara mentioned planets in exaltation in divisional charts.

Even in tradition, we consider it. For example, a planet that is

debilitated in rasi and exalted in navamsa is considered to have neecha

bhanga.

> > >

> > > How can one define exaltation of a planet in a divisional chart,

without having the concept of longitude in the divisional chart???

> > >

> > > Unfortunately, people use many approximations to the teachings of

rishis today. They assume that planets are exalted in entire signs. But

that is NOT what Parasara taught. Moon is in exaltation only in the

first 3 deg of Taurus and not entire Taurus. Mercury is in exaltation

only the first 15 deg of Virgo and not entire Virgo.

> > >

> > > In order to see if Moon or Mercury is in exaltation in navamsa or

another divisional chart, one MUST know the longitude of the planet in

that divisional chart. It is not enough to know that Moon is in Taurus.

One needs to know if he is in the first 3 deg of Taurus! If there is

nothing called divisional longitudes, one cannot talk about exaltation

of planets in divisional charts such as navamsa.

> > >

> > > * * *

> > >

> > > When teaching the special graha drishtis based on " bhavas " ,

Parasara taught that Mars has full aspect on 4th and 8th houses from

him, Jupiter on 5th and 9th houses from him and Saturn on 3rd and 10th

houses from him. Then he clarified further and gave clear formulas to

quantify the extent of aspect from a planet on various points of the

zodiac. The formulas clearly establish that 90-120 deg from Mars is the

4th house from Mars, 210-240 deg from Mars is the 8th house from Mars,

120-150 deg from Jupiter is the 5th house from Jupiter and so on.

> > >

> > > Unfortunately, as I said before, people use many approximations to

the teachings of rishis today. If Mars is at 27Ge43, they assume that

4th house from Mars is entire Virgo. But that is NOT what Parasara

taught. If Mars is at 27Ge43, then 27Vi43-27Li42 is the 4th house from

Mars.

> > >

> > > (Note: This also explains why Parasara recommended making separate

bhava chakras from lagna, Sun, Moon etc. If entire signs are bhavas, one

can make one chart and keep rotating it. There is no need to really make

different charts. But, if house of a planet depends on the longitude of

reference and longitude of planet, then it makes sense to make multiple

charts and keep them handy.)

> > >

> > > Now, Parasara mentioned placement of planets in divisional charts

in houses from various references. As a simple example, there is a

reference to a planet placed in various divisions in a quadrant from

" svaarudha " . As the 1st, 4th, 7th and 10th houses from a reference

depend on its exact longitude, one cannot determine if Sun in D-9 or

Moon in D-10 or Jupiter in D-12 is in a quadrant from " svaarudha " unless

one knows the exact longitudes of Sun in D-9 or Moon in D-10 or Jupiter

in D-12.

> > >

> > > * * *

> > >

> > > When we say that Moon in navamsa is in Libra, it is not a special

abstract Libra. It is the same Libra that was described by Parasara in

the chapter on rasis. Planets of rasi chart are physical points in

zodiac that can be correlated to physical objects. Planets of navamsa

(and other divisional charts) may not have a physical representation,

but they are abstract *points* that are placed at various positions in

the same zodiac! If Moon in navamsa is in Libra, the question arises

" where in Libra " .

> > >

> > > In fact, Parasara did not really teach making navamsa chart,

dasamsa chart etc. He taught finding the " rasi Sun " , " rasi Sun " ,

" navamsa Sun " , " navamsa Moon " , " dasamsa Sun " , " dasamsa Moon " etc as

points in the zodiac containing 12 rasis.

> > >

> > > * * *

> > >

> > > If one studies Parasara carefully or peruses the above pointers

with intellectual honesty, one can see why divisional longitudes are

justified and needed.

> > >

> > > Finding them is straight-forward. Suppose Moon is at 22Ar00

physically, i.e. in rasi chart. As 20Ar00-23Ar20 is mapped to Libra in

navamsa, Moon in navamsa is in Libra. As 3 deg 20 min of rasi chart is

mapped to 30 deg in navamsa chart, each deg of rasi chart is mapped to 9

deg in navamsa. Moon is advanced by 2 deg in the 3 deg 20 min physical

arc of Aries that is mapped to Libra in navamsa. Multiplying by 9, he is

at 18 deg in Libra.

> > >

> > > * * *

> > >

> > > Some people may be uncomfortable that this opens a lot of messy

questions. For example, do we find AK based on longitudes in rasi chart

only or use longitudes in divisional charts? Do we find nakshatras,

sarvatobhadra chakra, nakshatra dasas etc based on longitudes in rasi

chart only or use longitudes in divisional charts?

> > >

> > > If one does not think straight or research thoroughly, it is easy

to draw wrong conclusions. There is no hurry to answer these questions.

It is possible that nakshatras or chara karakas found based on a

divisional chart have a subtler purpose but we need to find them based

on rasi chart alone for the purposes we are used to.

> > >

> > > In any case, rejecting the concept of divisional longitudes

altogether because there are some unresolved and complicated questions

that perhaps need more study, is akin to placing the cart before the

bullock. It should be the other way around. If there is clear

justification for divisional longitudes, accept them first and then

consider the questions that rise and try to answer them.

> > >

> > > * * *

> > >

> > > Anybody who honestly studies the two research articles titled

" Stationary Planets in Transit " and " Transit of Nakshatra Dasa Lord: A

Specific Principle " has to wonder whether such specific *longitudinal*

correlations between transiting planets in rasi chart and natal planets

in *divisional* charts can be mere coincidences.

> > >

> > > Please note that I am not offering circumstantial evidence alone.

In addition to this circumstantial evidence, I gave theoretical

justification above.

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > > Narasimha

> > >

-

> > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

> > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

> > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

> > > Spirituality:

> > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> > >

-

> > >

> > > , " yeeahoo_99 " <nitish.arya@>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > > Namaskar Narasimha,

> > > >

> > > > It is futile to use a car that has no steering, irrespective

of how good the design is.

> > > >

> > > > The question here was how do you justify D-1800 (the 30

longitudinal divisions of your D-60 chart in your software, that require

1800 divisions in Rashi chart) ? Actually your software divides D-144

also in 30 parts so that is something like D-4320 - sounds more like an

apartment number !

> > > >

> > > > Please defend that first. Who gave you that " scholarly " idea

?

> > > > Has anybody ever heard of anything more than D-300 anyways ?

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Nitish

> > > >

> > > > , " Narasimha P.V.R. Rao "

<pvr@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste,

> > > > >

> > > > > Most charts used were rectified based on several events and

several techniques. Of course, one has the right to remain skeptical.

> > > > >

> > > > > Inquisitive students of Jyotish may note that the coincidences

are too good to be random. If you look carefully, multiple events are

used with several charts in the examples. If you think that D-60 lagna

was doctored for one exmaple, what about the others based on the same

chart?

> > > > >

> > > > > For example, examples 10, 22 and 23 use the same chart. The

native of the chart is a famous astrology savant and the D-60 lagna was

rectified by him (and me too). Isn't it very interesting that the dasa

lord closely aspected the D-60 longitude of a planet with a strong link

to the 7th house by less than 1 deg at the time of his marriage and

closely aspected the D-60 longitudes of two planets having a strong link

to the 5th house by 2 deg at the time of birth of both his children? A

very close aspect on vital planets by dasa lord at the time of 3

important events! I have shown such close correlations in several

examples.

> > > > >

> > > > > * * *

> > > > >

> > > > > In my personal opinion, the last two articles on the transit

of stationary planets and dasa lord's transit are my best contributions

to Jyotish research.

> > > > >

> > > > > In any case, I am not here to sell anything. For a while, I

will defend my work as a scholar. After that, I will move on. Whether

some fruits will come from this seed I sowed or not and who enjoys the

fruits does not concern me, as it is not in my hands. As I said at the

end of the article, " If you like this knowledge, please feel free to

refine it, use it and spread it. If not, please leave it. "

> > > > >

> > > > > Those interested in the article may download the FREE PDF at:

> > > > >

> > > > > http://VedicAstrologer.org/articles

> > > > > " Transit of Nakshatra Dasa Lord: A Specific Principle "

> > > > >

> > > > > * * *

> > > > >

> > > > > I gave multiple examples of each type of event (e.g. marriage,

childbirth, going abroad etc). As I gave Ramana Maharshi's realization

of Self as an example, I wanted to give another example that uses the

same parameters, to demonstrate consistency like with other events.

While the dates when yogis like Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Swami

Vivekananda, Swami Sivananda, Aurobindo etc realized Self are not known,

I happened to have that data for a contemporary yogi who happened to

reach Nirvikalpa samadhi and have his permission to share his birthdata.

Hence I shared that example. I gave the theoretical definition of

Nirvikalpa samadhi as some Jyotish students may not know the term. Looks

like there is a lot of discussion on that definition rather than the

Jyotish content of my research article.

> > > > >

> > > > > Self is indescribable and so is realization of Self. However,

it is not without a reason that rishis attempted to describe concepts

and things associated with it. Though theoretical discussions are

neither necessary not sufficient for Self-realization, they can be

helpful to some seekers.

> > > > >

> > > > > However, instead of using a list dedicated to Jyotish for

discussing varieties of samadhi and what they mean, I invite anybody

interested in a discussion to join where I

discuss matters related to spirituality in depth.

> > > > >

> > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > Narasimha

> > > > >

> > > > > , " utkal.panigrahi "

<utkal.panigrahi@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Agreed, Studies based on unconfirmed birth charts, applying

finer D

> > > > > > charts could be misleading.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > Utkal

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " yeeahoo_99 "

<nitish.arya@>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > || OM TAT SAT ||

> > > > > > > Namaskar Narasimha,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Am afraid that your article lacks scriptural authority and

proper

> > > > > > analysis. It is based on your unexplained " longitudes of

planets in

> > > > > > divisional charts " that looks like more of a mathematical

gimmick than a

> > > > > > REALITY.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Essentially, You are attempting to divide what is already

a division

> > > > > > and exists as a unit (Shastyamsa). And then comparing it

with what

> > > > > > actually exists, i.e. longitude of a planet in Transit.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > What it really means (am not counting the seconds part,

just the 30

> > > > > > imaginative degrees of divisional longitudes your software

shows) is

> > > > > > that you are talking about a subdivision which is 1/30th of

the D-60

> > > > > > division, i.e. D-1800.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > While on one hand, you write in your article that research

is needed

> > > > > > to completely unearth the significance of D-60, OTOH, you

are pushing

> > > > > > your rather misleading suggestion of " divisional longitudes

of planets "

> > > > > > i.e. D-1800. Doesn't that double-standard remind us of

PoorvaBhadra

> > > > > > constellation ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Vivekananda wrote that Truth or true knowledge is never

inconsistent

> > > > > > with scriptures and analytic and inferential science. It is

always an

> > > > > > addition and not contradictory to existing true knowledge.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thus, many of your research-things that are based on

" divisional

> > > > > > longitudes of planets " are not Jyotish but comparable to

dark matter

> > > > > > theory, which would never be found in REALITY!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > * * *

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Here is a bit of diversion I came across in your article.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > While I understand that you might not be familiar with

yoga, your

> > > > > > sanskrit knowledge is good by your own evaluation. In this

view, here is

> > > > > > an excerpt from your article:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " Nirvikalpa Samadhi is a state where I-ness

(individualized Self)

> > > > > > merges back into Brahman/Aatman (undifferentiated Self or

the Supreme

> > > > > > Cosmic Essence) and all objectification and duality ceases.

Observer,

> > > > > > observed and observation merge into one, without any

differentiation

> > > > > > whatsoever.... "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If there is really no difference, Could you please

illucidate why you

> > > > > > won't use the specific term " Brahman-Sthiti " and instead use

a

> > > > > > non-positive connotation " Nirvikalpa Samadhi " ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Meanwhile, here is a helpful hint from the now

better-known Yogi Sri

> > > > > > Yukteswar Giri:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " As prophets are sent on earth to help men work out their

physical

> > > > > > karma, so I have been directed by God to serve on an astral

planet as a

> > > > > > savior, " Sri Yukteswar explained. " It is called Hiranyaloka

or

> > > > > > 'Illumined Astral Planet.'... No one can enter Hiranyaloka

unless he has

> > > > > > passed on earth beyond the state of sabikalpa samadhi into

the higher

> > > > > > state of nirbikalpa samadhi.... "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It implies that Nirbikalpa/Nirvikalpa is a high-spiritual

state,

> > > > > > nothing more than a passport to enter another high Astral

Plane, and not

> > > > > > equivalent to " Brahman-Sthithi " as You are stating.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you are convinced with the explanation of Sri

Yukteswar, you

> > > > > > needn't reply to this non-astrological diversion.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks and Regards,

> > > > > > > Nitish

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , " Narasimha P.V.R.

Rao " pvr@

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Namaste,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Another research article on Jyotish is available for a

free download

> > > > > > at

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > VedicAstrologer.org/articles

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The article is titled " Transit of Nakshatra Dasa Lord: A

Specific

> > > > > > Principle " . It contains an original principle that is simple

and

> > > > > > replicable, illustrated with 36 practical examples. A small

excerpt from

> > > > > > the beginning of the article is reproduced below.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ----------------------

> > > > > > > > Introduction

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nakshatra dasas such as Vimsottari dasa are very

important for

> > > > > > timing events. Nakshatra dasa lord is a very important

planet and he has

> > > > > > a strong influence on the mind of a native at the time.

Vedic

> > > > > > Astrologers have traditionally used the nakshatra dasa

lord's transit in

> > > > > > various ways, e.g. houses occupied from natal Moon and natal

lagna and

> > > > > > aspects on natal positions in rasi chart.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I found an interesting correlation between the longitude

of

> > > > > > nakshatra dasa lord in transit and divisional longitudes of

natal

> > > > > > planets. I want to share a specific principle based on the

correlation I

> > > > > > found. Please note that this principle is not intended to

replace the

> > > > > > techniques that Vedic astrologers traditionally employ, but

meant to

> > > > > > augment them.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Principle

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Maharshi Parasara defined 16 divisional charts. While

mentioning the

> > > > > > matters seen in each divisional chart, he said shashtyamsa

(D-60) shows

> > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ' ¢ÃÆ'¢ €š

¬ÃÆ'… " everythingÃÆ'Æ' ¢ÃÆ'¢

€š ¬ÃÆ'¯ ¿ ½. In the

vimsopaka bala of dasa varga

> > > > > > and shodasa varga, shashtyamsa is given a higher weightage

than even the

> > > > > > rasi chart. It seems like a key chart. The correlation I

found between

> > > > > > the longitude of nakshatra dasa lord in transit and

longitudes of natal

> > > > > > planets involves D-60.

> > > > > > > > ----------------------

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Happy New Year,

> > > > > > > > Narasimha

>