Guest guest Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 Dear Partha, > Dear Narasimha > > The contradictions seem to be too many. First it was sudasa, > now it is kalachakra dasa. It is far too confusing. Just like > you added options for Chara dasa( K N Rao, Rangacharya method) > etc, i guess you can make it KCD Rath, and KCD Narasimha etc. In the case of Sudasa, Sanjay ji kept changing the definition everytime we met for a conference. First, I assumed he was testing us and wanted us to figure out what is correct. Later, I concluded that he himself is not sure. However, my belief is that he received some knowledge in the parampara regarding Sudasa, which did not stick with him perfectly and hence the confusion. In the case of KCD, I am quite sure Sanjay ji does not have any secrets from parampara. He told me several times that he relied on *me* to crack the KCD and ashtakavarga puzzles. He was very excited when I revealed the basic KCD idea to him. I am afraid he simply hijacked what I shared with him and what I later wrote as a paper in our joint names and running with it now. The only thing I do not know is by how much exactly he changed what he hijacked and how badly it deviates from Parasara in areas where Parasara is clear. * * * Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen him closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received from the community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara secrets, I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets " irresponsibly. If a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets, it would've been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst researcher I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so many things and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to serious conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical testing. Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague logic that he can justify any result with any astrological factor. Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas* for research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes explicitly and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a glorious parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji revolutionized Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly for several years now. I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now, but I could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I could not say it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did not want to use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual master, I am today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or anger in my heart and in the same way I may state routine observations. * * * > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly so as to avoid confusions for novices like me. > > regards > Partha JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many things. We are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying and even *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a reasonably intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the difference between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the room is slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark. Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds. What we need is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and impassioned search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest. My personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next decade and there will be more light in the field of Jyotish. The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on astrology in English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri K.N. Rao did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the focus to divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath took the focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and brought several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the plant grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant. The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the weeds we have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a tree. However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the actual plant is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the knowledge of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years. * * * Namaste Srivastava, > To the best of my knowledge, He did not teach as you quote/ assume. Page 11 OF > his PDF of London/Serbia says dasa sequence same as Parasar has mentioned. > > In fact Rsi Parasar has quoted " dasa sequence " , deha and jeeva for all savya > and apsayva nakshatra.So this type of error is unlikely by any scholar.BTW > how you could get this information that he taught this sequence for jyeshta > 4 th pada ? Please scroll down to the end of this mail. Sanjay ji's original mail is enclosed. He wrote: " I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. <deleted> The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... " For Jyeshtha 4th pada, JHora gives Sg, Sc, Li, ..., Ta, Ar just as taught by Parasara and yet Sanjay ji faulted JHora and mentioned something else ( " Pi-Ar-... " ) as the " correct order " . So I am assuming that there is no typo here and that he is consciously teaching knowledge that violates Parasara. Best regards, Narasimha - Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org Spirituality: Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings - > Namaste, > > > The jyotish community will have an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > If Pt Rath took Pi-Ar as the sequence for Jyeshtha 4, his teachings are WRONG. Period. Parasara is very clear that it should be Sg, Sc, Li, ... for Jyeshtha 4th pada. > > The challenge in KCD research is to figure out the details Parasara left ambiguous. It is not to alter what Parasara laid out clearly. We have enough confusions and there is no need to ADD NEWER CONFUSIONS. > > * * * > > I asked Pt Rath in Nov-Dec 2009 if what he taught at BAVA was different from what was given in our joint paper presented at SJC conference. He did not respond. I also said I could consider adding his new method to JHora if he (or someone else) could send me the definition in written form. > > BTW, I could not locate the CD on BAVA website, even if I were willing to buy the CD and listen. > > * * * > > The whole idea of nakshatra pada iteration was discovered by me from an old Telugu language book and shared with Sanjay ji when he visited my house in 2004. Parasara defined the dasa cycles for each nakshatra pada unambiguously, but the matter of antardasas is murky. > > The problem with existing KCD antardasa schemes is that they result in dasa-antardasa combinations or antardasa leaps not sanctioned by Lord Shiva, who taught to Parvati the results of each possible dasa-antardasa pair in savya and apasavya chakras! > > For example, dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is " Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge " . If one takes antardasas in Li dasa in this cycle to be " Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge, [wrapping back] Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc " , then we have a leap (Ge->Cp) not mentioned by Shiva or Parasara. What some people do to avoid it is to NOT wrap back but move forward to the next dasa cycle corresponding to Aswini 3rd pada. So antardasas in Li dasa above will be " Li, Vi, Cn, Le, Ge, [moving ahead to the next dasa cycle of Aswini 3rd pada] Ta, Ar, Pi, Aq " . This ensures that there are no unsanctioned leaps, but this introduces mahadasa-antardasa pairs not covered by Shiva. It is also wrong. > > The idea I had after studying the detailed conversation between Shiva and Parvati reproduced in that Telugu book (conversation was in Sanskrit verses) was that antardasas are not obtained by shifting within the dasa cycle as people do and either wrap back to the beginning or skip to the next cycle, but by treating the dasa sign as a nakshatra pada and finding antardasas from the dasa cycle associated with that nakshatra pada! As you go one level down after another, you keep iterating like that. It is a simple and yet elegant idea, which ensures that there are no leaps or dasa-antardasa pairs that are not mentioned by Shiva. It also shows the logical structure behind the dasa cycles associated with nakshatra padas. > > Sanjay ji was excited when I presented the idea to him and he exclaimed that I had cracked it (he tends to jump to big conclusions very quickly). He asked me to write a paper in our combined names for the upcoming SJC conference in India. I told him that I still needed to figure out the apasavya nakshatra case, which was more tricky, but he did not want to wait. I hastily figured out apasavya nakshatra case also and sent him a paper, but it seems like he changed things later. > > Whatever I was doing was within the framework of cycles defined by Parasara. I deciphered the structure in it and defined antardasas so that they are based on the same structure and do not use leaps or dasa-antardasa pairs not mentioned by Shiva. I did NOT change any dasa sequences given by Parasara. > > On the other hand, Pt Rath seems to have missed the point that dasa sequences are non-negotiable and only antardasa orders are to be deduced. You can NOT go against Parasara's clear teachings and hope to be correct! > > I am very sorry to see that he took my idea, corrupted it to turn it against Parasara's teachings and ran with it and that some people want to invest their time on those wrong teachings. > > * * * > > But, as a free software programmer, I am willing to ADD his option to JHora (the current " Rao & Rath " method is based on our joint paper and has no errors. Any other method will have to be added newly). But I need to see exactly what he taught. > > Best regards, > Narasimha > ------------------------- > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > Spirituality: > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > ------------------------- > > ---- R C Srivastava <swami.rcs <swami.rcs%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > Dear Narsimha ji, > > > > Divine has always blessed you to do wonderful service. > > > > You are aware of KCD Lecture at London from the mail . > > > > In case you have Time and inclination to offer calculation as Per these teachings to be a part of Jhora: CD on KCD are available From Bava. > > > > BTW PDF teachings in this CD are dedicated to your good self by Guruji. In case you offer his methodology The jyotish community will have > > > > an option to try his teachings with free SW. > > > > With regards. > > > > RCS > > > > jhora <jhora%40> [jhora <jhora%40> ] On Behalf Of Narasimha PVR Rao > > Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:38 AM > > jhora <jhora%40> ; JyotishWritings <JyotishWritings%40> ; vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40> ; <%40> > > Re: Kalachakra Dasa Calculation in JHora > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > KCD calculation in JHora was broken earlier, but I fixed it in a previous release. But Pt Sanjay Rath complained (see below) that it was still wrong. > > > > I am preparing a JHora 7.4 release now. I wanted to fix Pt Rath's complaint and checked things. I discovered that JHora 7.33 is fine. If you select the " Rao & Rath " method of KCD with JHora 7.33, the calculations given by JHora match what was given in our combined paper. > > > > For Jyeshtha 4th quarter, JHora 7.33 is giving Sg, Sc, Li, Vi, Le, Cn, Ge, Ta and Ar. That is indeed what the paper gave. That also matches what Parasara taught in BPHS (chapter 46 verses 77-81). > > > > * * * > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-.... > > > > I am not sure why Pt Rath thinks that the sequence should be " Pi-Ar-.... " for Jyeshtha 4th pada. That is clearly inconsistent with Parasara's teachings as well as *our own* combined paper. > > > > In case Pt Rath changed the sequences given in our combined paper at the last minute (I was not there at the conference and he presented our combined paper alone), I have to point out that it is inconsistent with Parasara's teachings. > > > > * * * > > > > In both the nakshatra pada iteration method as well as other methods, please select " Rohini 4th pada is Leo navamsa " (instead of " Rohini 4th pada is Cancer navamsa " ) in Kalachakra dasa options if you want to match the dasa cycles taught by Parasara. > > > > With that setting, all Kalachakra dasa methods supported in JHora match the dasa cycles listed by Parasara for various nakshatra padas, except of course the Raghavacharya method. > > > > Dasa cycles of different nakshatra padas are the same between various methods and the difference between various methods is essentially in how dasa sesham is applied and how antardasas are found. Raghavacharya method is the only one that is philosophically different in the matter of dasa cycles itself. > > > > Raghavacharya method given in JHora takes dasas by taking nine navamsas starting from the navamsa occupied by Moon (or whatever reference is chosen). It uses the nine-sign-sequences mapped by Parasara to various nakshatra padas to actually find the *antardasa cycles* within various dasas. > > > > All other methods given in JHora map nakshatra padas to the fixed sequences listed by Parasara. > > > > Bottomline: There are no errors in JHora's KCD computation. Please note the setting mentioned above. > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > ------------------------- > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org > > Spirituality: > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings > > ------------------------- > > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40> <sohamsa%40> , " Sanjay Rath " <sanjayrath@> wrote: > > > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotishi > > > > > > > > I was studying the Kalachakra dasa for one chart today and found to my amazement that ALL the SIX methods of Kalachakra dasa calculation given in Jagannath Hora, including the one called *Rao and Rath* are WRONG. > > > > > > > > Please do not use them and if you do so, it's your risk and don't ask me questions or help. The correct one is in Shri Jyoti Star. I have checked Jyestha 4th Pada for this and need to check all others. Get your copy from www.vedicsoftware.com > > > > > > > > The correct order for this pada should be Pi-Ar-....and if we use full cycle iteration, then in the particular case I was studying we get Cn-Vi.... > > > > > > > > For more details, please get hold of the Kalachakra paper/slides I used in London > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > > > PS. I think I am going to hold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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