Transferring vedic astrology list ownership

[Guest guest]

Pranaam Sanjay,

 

> > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has become

very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to transfer --

> > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center

> > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this list of

Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna.

 

I replied only to question (1) and left question (2) unanswered. I realize that

my silence might have been misunderstood and my answer to your hypothetical

question might not have been obvious.

 

In case of question (1), I have a specific guidance from my spiritual guru and I

cannot disobey him. But, there is no such obstacle in the case of question (2).

I am free to do what I wish.

 

If you indeed ask, I will be happy to relinquish the ownership of

vedic astrology list.

 

Currently, this list is being managed by Narayan Iyer. I can ask him to transfer

it to anyone you may identify. Please let us know if you want us to do it.

 

Best regards,

Narasimha

-

Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

" Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

Spirituality:

Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

-

 

vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote:

>

> Namaste Sanjay,

>

> > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual

> > and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do

> > if I ask him to transfer --

> > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center

>

> If my spiritual guru asks me to do it, I will do so without batting an eyelid.

However, he has warned of this and explicitly forbade me.

>

> When I decided a few years back to make JHora open source and leave JHora

programming to others, my spiritual guru asked me to rethink.

>

> In July 2009, he suddenly told me without any context, " they are going to try

to take over Jagannatha Hora. You must stand firm and not allow that. I know you

want to get out of this, but there is more you need to do for the Jyotish world

and JHora is an important vehicle. If they take over, all your effort so far

will go waste. They will promote dogmatism, create confusion, kill research and

eventually make it commercial like everything else they are doing today. You

must stand firm. They will invoke Krishna's name, but realize that nobody owns

Krishna. I forbid you from giving away JHora to them. Own it, keep it free and

add new researches to it. "

>

> (Note: I am mentioning this publicly with the permission of my guru.)

>

> * * *

>

> Very interestingly, just a few days after he said this, you wrote on the

lists, " I think the time has come when PVR Narasimha and SJC have to part ways " ,

because I had no " faith in Jagannath Mahaprabhu " .

>

> And, just a few days later, you wanted a team decided by SJC to take over

JHora and create an " SJC version " , as there were too many options in JHora. I

immediately remembered my guru's words and saw this is as the first step of what

he described.

>

> * * *

>

> This was my reply to you from August 2009:

>

> " I will continue to maintain " Jagannatha Hora " software effort for some more

time.

>

> Also, Jagannatha Hora will continue to support " non-SJC " calculations and

options in the interest of the advancement of Jyotish knowledge. As I said, I

will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC recommended settings, if you or an

SJC committee standardize the settings and send them to me via a jhora.ini file.

>

> If you or an SJC committee decide that something more is needed, I can review

the expectations and judge whether and how I can help. "

>

> * * *

>

> Though addressed to someone else, I realize that the above question about

transferring the " ownership of JHora " is indirectly meant for me. But, you

already know my answer! I reproduced it above anyway.

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

> -

> Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

> " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

> http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

> Spirituality:

> Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> -

>

> vedic astrology , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> wrote:

> > om gurave namah

> > Dear Raj

> > When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or the

person to whom you gave it?

> > So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner of

Jagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to him.

> > Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or such things, so

then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding the software, can we

say that I am even a partial owner of the software? So how is the *Guru

Dakshina?*

> > In view of the above, some of your statements may seem very untruthful. In

future I can only suggest that you at least get the facts right before making

statements, else you may be seen as one who is telling lies easily.

> >

> > If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you are wrong.

> > Now let me tell you and other list members another thing -

> > This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 by Narasimha on

behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by another old student ran

away with the SJVC websites and . One thief called Dinanath Das. So,

technically Narasimha was entrusted with the responsibility of having public

forum for Sri Jagannath Center.

> > Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic Astrology

List*? Is this Narasimha or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away with this list (who

is to stop him?), in what way is he any different from the previous ones who ran

away with things entrusted to them?

> > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has become

very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to transfer --

> > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center

> > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this list of

Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna.

> > Jaya Bharati

> > Regards ~

> > Sanjay Rath

> > http://srath.cpm

> >

> > Raj

> > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:07 PM

> > vedic astrology

> > [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora

> >

> > Dear All,

> >

> > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who seemingly

> > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and

> > Shishya.

> >

> > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the following

> > thoughts have been occuring in my mind.

> >

> > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great

> > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of Narsimha

> > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still.

> >

> > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work of

> > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the

> > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what quantum is

> > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle of

> > the Shishya ?

> >

> > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out

> > flaws with a number of features/calculations/updation in the JHora. Lots

> > of views and counter views are being generated about the interpretation

> > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other vidwana/sawant/scholar

> > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown his

> > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all are

> > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for a

> > Film, with No End!

> >

> > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is doing

> > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even from

> > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his

> > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, faces

> > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata

> >

> > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can change

> > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename the

> > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the Kunjis

> > with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of

> > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone

> > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution in

> > JHora !

> >

> > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each other's

> > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. PEACE.

> >

> > Raj Bhardwaj

> >

> > vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Namaste Manoj ji,

> > >

> > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara.

> > >

> > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For

> > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect

> > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite

> > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't

> > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable

> > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his

> > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you

> > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as

> > described in the mail below.

> > >

> > > Namaste Neelam ji,

> > >

> > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one

> > occasion that

> > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon!

> > Astrology

> > > > makes much sense, isn't it?

> > >

> > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my

> > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him.

> > >

> > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I

> > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in

> > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As

> > Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach

> > it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing

> > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as

> > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public

> > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I

> > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems

> > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to

> > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During

> > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards god.

> > After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I

> > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent

> > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a

> > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are in

> > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still.

> > >

> > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay

> > ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for

> > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if

> > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by

> > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I

> > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being

> > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with

> > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek

> > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma

> > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at

> > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly.

> > >

> > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly.

> > As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for

> > several years now.

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > > Narasimha

> > > -------------------------

> > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

> > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

> > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

> > > Spirituality:

> > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> > > -------------------------

> > >

> > > , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@

> > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Manoj ji,

> > > >

> > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one

> > occasion that

> > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon!

> > Astrology

> > > > makes much sense, isn't it?

> > > >

> > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the

> > intelligent

> > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start

> > afresh! I

> > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares

> > freely, not

> > > > to mention the great service done through JHora.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji.

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > > Neelam

> > > >

> > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Dear Narasimha ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is

> > concerned

> > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not

> > seem to have

> > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and

> > maternal) did not

> > > > > even consult him astrologically then.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > Manoj

> > > > >

> > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen

> > him

> > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received

> > from the

> > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara

> > secrets,

> > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets "

> > irresponsibly. If

> > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets,

> > it would've

> > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst

> > researcher

> > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so

> > many things

> > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to

> > serious

> > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical

> > testing.

> > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague

> > logic that

> > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor.

> > > > >

> > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas*

> > for

> > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes

> > explicitly

> > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a

> > glorious

> > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji

> > revolutionized

> > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly

> > for

> > > > > several years now.

> > > > >

> > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now,

> > but I

> > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I

> > could not say

> > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did

> > not want to

> > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual

> > master, I am

> > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or

> > anger in my

> > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations.

> > > > >

> > > > > * * *

> > > > >

> > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly

> > so as to

> > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards

> > > > > > Partha

> > > > >

> > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many

> > things. We

> > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying

> > and even

> > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a

> > reasonably

> > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the

> > difference

> > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the

> > room is

> > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark.

> > > > >

> > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds.

> > What we need

> > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and

> > impassioned

> > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest.

> > My

> > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next

> > decade and

> > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish.

> > > > >

> > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on

> > astrology in

> > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri

> > K.N. Rao

> > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the

> > focus to

> > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath

> > took the

> > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and

> > brought

> > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the

> > plant

> > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant.

> > > > >

> > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the

> > weeds we

> > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a

> > tree.

> > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the

> > actual plant

> > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the

> > knowledge

> > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years.

[Guest guest]

To PVR :

Namaste,

 

You must not answer irrelevant questions, such as transferring JHORA

ownership, VA group ownership or selling JHORA initially, etc. The

real issue is getting sidetracked, which is whether someone like Sanjay

Ji has any access to genuine parampara secrets.

 

If someone (eg, Sanjay Ji) has discovered something important, he/she

must be accredited for it. If you have found Sanjay Ji's claims to be

wrong, you should show the proofs and not allow others to distract you

towards irrelevant issues.

 

The issue is not whether someone sells Jyotisha or not. I have never

charged a penny for my astrological works and services, but if I

propagate wrong ideas then I must be refuted and renounced, irrespective

of the fact whether I give the garbage free of cost or with a fee. No

one owns Jyotisha. Both SanjayJi and you have made valuable

contributions to the cause of Jyotisha and both of you must be

critically appreciated.

 

-Vinay Jha

======================= ===

vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr

wrote:

>

> Pranaam Sanjay,

>

> > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and

has become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to

transfer --

> > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center

> > > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this

list of Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna.

>

> I replied only to question (1) and left question (2) unanswered. I

realize that my silence might have been misunderstood and my answer to

your hypothetical question might not have been obvious.

>

> In case of question (1), I have a specific guidance from my spiritual

guru and I cannot disobey him. But, there is no such obstacle in the

case of question (2). I am free to do what I wish.

>

> If you indeed ask, I will be happy to relinquish the ownership of

vedic astrology list.

>

> Currently, this list is being managed by Narayan Iyer. I can ask him

to transfer it to anyone you may identify. Please let us know if you

want us to do it.

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

> -

> Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

> " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

> http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

> Spirituality:

> Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> -

>

> vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ wrote:

> >

> > Namaste Sanjay,

> >

> > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual

> > > and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do

> > > if I ask him to transfer --

> > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center

> >

> > If my spiritual guru asks me to do it, I will do so without batting

an eyelid. However, he has warned of this and explicitly forbade me.

> >

> > When I decided a few years back to make JHora open source and leave

JHora programming to others, my spiritual guru asked me to rethink.

> >

> > In July 2009, he suddenly told me without any context, " they are

going to try to take over Jagannatha Hora. You must stand firm and not

allow that. I know you want to get out of this, but there is more you

need to do for the Jyotish world and JHora is an important vehicle. If

they take over, all your effort so far will go waste. They will promote

dogmatism, create confusion, kill research and eventually make it

commercial like everything else they are doing today. You must stand

firm. They will invoke Krishna's name, but realize that nobody owns

Krishna. I forbid you from giving away JHora to them. Own it, keep it

free and add new researches to it. "

> >

> > (Note: I am mentioning this publicly with the permission of my

guru.)

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > Very interestingly, just a few days after he said this, you wrote on

the lists, " I think the time has come when PVR Narasimha and SJC have to

part ways " , because I had no " faith in Jagannath Mahaprabhu " .

> >

> > And, just a few days later, you wanted a team decided by SJC to take

over JHora and create an " SJC version " , as there were too many options

in JHora. I immediately remembered my guru's words and saw this is as

the first step of what he described.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > This was my reply to you from August 2009:

> >

> > " I will continue to maintain " Jagannatha Hora " software effort for

some more time.

> >

> > Also, Jagannatha Hora will continue to support " non-SJC "

calculations and options in the interest of the advancement of Jyotish

knowledge. As I said, I will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC

recommended settings, if you or an SJC committee standardize the

settings and send them to me via a jhora.ini file.

> >

> > If you or an SJC committee decide that something more is needed, I

can review the expectations and judge whether and how I can help. "

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > Though addressed to someone else, I realize that the above question

about transferring the " ownership of JHora " is indirectly meant for me.

But, you already know my answer! I reproduced it above anyway.

> >

> > Best regards,

> > Narasimha

> > -

> > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

> > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

> > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

> > Spirituality:

> > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> > -

> >

> > vedic astrology , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@>

wrote:

> > > om gurave namah

> > > Dear Raj

> > > When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or

the person to whom you gave it?

> > > So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner

of Jagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to

him.

> > > Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or such

things, so then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding

the software, can we say that I am even a partial owner of the software?

So how is the *Guru Dakshina?*

> > > In view of the above, some of your statements may seem very

untruthful. In future I can only suggest that you at least get the facts

right before making statements, else you may be seen as one who is

telling lies easily.

> > >

> > > If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you

are wrong.

> > > Now let me tell you and other list members another thing -

> > > This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 by

Narasimha on behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by

another old student ran away with the SJVC websites and .

One thief called Dinanath Das. So, technically Narasimha was entrusted

with the responsibility of having public forum for Sri Jagannath Center.

> > > Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic

Astrology List*? Is this Narasimha or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away

with this list (who is to stop him?), in what way is he any different

from the previous ones who ran away with things entrusted to them?

> > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and

has become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to

transfer --

> > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center

> > > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this

list of Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna.

> > > Jaya Bharati

> > > Regards ~

> > > Sanjay Rath

> > > http://srath.cpm

> > >

> > > Raj

> > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:07 PM

> > > vedic astrology

> > > [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > >

> > > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who

seemingly

> > > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and

> > > Shishya.

> > >

> > > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the

following

> > > thoughts have been occuring in my mind.

> > >

> > > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great

> > > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of

Narsimha

> > > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still.

> > >

> > > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great

work of

> > > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the

> > > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what

quantum is

> > > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle

of

> > > the Shishya ?

> > >

> > > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding

out

> > > flaws with a number of features/calculations/updation in the

JHora. Lots

> > > of views and counter views are being generated about the

interpretation

> > > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other

vidwana/sawant/scholar

> > > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown

his

> > > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all

are

> > > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts

for a

> > > Film, with No End!

> > >

> > > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is

doing

> > > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over,

even from

> > > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his

> > > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas,

faces

> > > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata

> > >

> > > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can

change

> > > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main

Symbol,rename the

> > > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the

Kunjis

> > > with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing

of

> > > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can

anyone

> > > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's

contribution in

> > > JHora !

> > >

> > > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each

other's

> > > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish.

PEACE.

> > >

> > > Raj Bhardwaj

> > >

> > > vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Manoj ji,

> > > >

> > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara.

> > > >

> > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji.

For

> > > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be

imperfect

> > > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works

quite

> > > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there

weren't

> > > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is

reasonable

> > > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of

his

> > > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you

> > > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as

> > > described in the mail below.

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Neelam ji,

> > > >

> > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one

> > > occasion that

> > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon!

> > > Astrology

> > > > > makes much sense, isn't it?

> > > >

> > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my

> > > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him.

> > > >

> > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out "

NOW. I

> > > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his

student in

> > > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years.

As

> > > Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will

teach

> > > it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started

noticing

> > > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as

soon as

> > > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public

> > > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself

that I

> > > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some

gems

> > > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was

to

> > > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During

> > > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards

god.

> > > After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in

2006, I

> > > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent

> > > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with

a

> > > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some

are in

> > > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still.

> > > >

> > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on

Sanjay

> > > ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to

stand for

> > > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered

if

> > > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind

by

> > > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or

if I

> > > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being

> > > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with

> > > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or

seek

> > > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma

> > > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at

> > > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly.

> > > >

> > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding

slowly.

> > > As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for

> > > several years now.

> > > >

> > > > Best regards,

> > > > Narasimha

> > > > -------------------------

> > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

> > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri

Tarpana:

> > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

> > > > Spirituality:

> > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> > > > -------------------------

> > > >

> > > > , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@

> > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Manoj ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one

> > > occasion that

> > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon!

> > > Astrology

> > > > > makes much sense, isn't it?

> > > > >

> > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the

> > > intelligent

> > > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start

> > > afresh! I

> > > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares

> > > freely, not

> > > > > to mention the great service done through JHora.

> > > > >

> > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > > Neelam

> > > > >

> > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay

is

> > > concerned

> > > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did

not

> > > seem to have

> > > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and

> > > maternal) did not

> > > > > > even consult him astrologically then.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Manoj

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but,

having seen

> > > him

> > > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he

received

> > > from the

> > > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine

parampara

> > > secrets,

> > > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets "

> > > irresponsibly. If

> > > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara

secrets,

> > > it would've

> > > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the

worst

> > > researcher

> > > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think

of so

> > > many things

> > > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he

jumps to

> > > serious

> > > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or

practical

> > > testing.

> > > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and

vague

> > > logic that

> > > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with

*ideas*

> > > for

> > > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by

sometimes

> > > explicitly

> > > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of

a

> > > glorious

> > > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji

> > > revolutionized

> > > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject

badly

> > > for

> > > > > > several years now.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time

now,

> > > but I

> > > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day

I

> > > could not say

> > > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I

did

> > > not want to

> > > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual

> > > master, I am

> > > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration

or

> > > anger in my

> > > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > * * *

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated

clearly

> > > so as to

> > > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > regards

> > > > > > > Partha

> > > > > >

> > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so

many

> > > things. We

> > > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be

glorifying

> > > and even

> > > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a

> > > reasonably

> > > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know

the

> > > difference

> > > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in

the

> > > room is

> > > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively

dark.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in

clouds.

> > > What we need

> > > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods

and

> > > impassioned

> > > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of

interest.

> > > My

> > > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the

next

> > > decade and

> > > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on

> > > astrology in

> > > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream

intelligentsia. Sri

> > > K.N. Rao

> > > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and

bringing the

> > > focus to

> > > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay

Rath

> > > took the

> > > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and

Jaimini and

> > > brought

> > > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However,

as the

> > > plant

> > > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of

the

> > > weeds we

> > > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely

into a

> > > tree.

> > > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if

the

> > > actual plant

> > > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of

the

> > > knowledge

> > > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years.

>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Narsimha Namaste

 

Actually I did not want to write about all the things that you have started

against SJC Parampara and Sanjay in particular, but I was thinking on some

points which were not very clear to me and hence wanted your help. You said

regarding the first question Sanjay asked, that Your Spiritual Guru objected in

" Giving " up the ownership of JHora. Now, what I failed to understand is that why

in the first place you discussed this matter with Your Spiritual Guru? I mean,

How your Spiritual Guru entertain a discussion regarding non spiritual activity.

That to in the absence of one of the member! When You actually created JHora, I

presume,Your Spiritual Guru was no where in the picture. How a Spiritual Guru

can discuss these 'trivial' issues like ownership of Jyotish software with you

when HE was not involved in its inception?

Secondly, How can a Spiritual Guru comment in this way about any Human

being(forget about Sanjay!) the way you said he reacted about Sanjay! At least,

in India we see that all Spiritual Gurus(I mean true Spiritual Guru) have always

preached " Giving " and have asked all their shishyas to donate. In fact, it is

believed in Indian context that Spiritual Gurus will encourage " Giving " rather

than " Owning " . But why in this case it is other way round? I mean more Indian

reaction from Your Spiritual Guru would have been something like " Just Give it

up if Sanjay says so. We will again do something better than that " Or " Just Give

it up to forget all Jyotish and concentrate on Spirituality alone "

 

Another point is, Your Spiritual Guru seems to be great devotee of Shri Gajanan

Maharah(This is what He has mentioned in his Astrology book which I have

purchased way back from London). I have started a print magazine one year back

in Marathi Language that has over 1000 rs,in which I have discussed

many astrological things about Shri Gajanan Maharaj. I thought I will send a

copy to him. Can you help, getting me to Him?

 

Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

 

Prabodh Vekhande

Jai Jai Shankar

Har Har Shankar

 

 

vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote:

>

> Pranaam Sanjay,

>

> > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has

become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to transfer --

> > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center

> > > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this list of

Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna.

>

> I replied only to question (1) and left question (2) unanswered. I realize

that my silence might have been misunderstood and my answer to your hypothetical

question might not have been obvious.

>

> In case of question (1), I have a specific guidance from my spiritual guru and

I cannot disobey him. But, there is no such obstacle in the case of question

(2). I am free to do what I wish.

>

> If you indeed ask, I will be happy to relinquish the ownership of

vedic astrology list.

>

> Currently, this list is being managed by Narayan Iyer. I can ask him to

transfer it to anyone you may identify. Please let us know if you want us to do

it.

>

> Best regards,

> Narasimha

> -

> Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

> " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

> http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

> Spirituality:

> Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> -

>

> vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote:

> >

> > Namaste Sanjay,

> >

> > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual

> > > and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do

> > > if I ask him to transfer --

> > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center

> >

> > If my spiritual guru asks me to do it, I will do so without batting an

eyelid. However, he has warned of this and explicitly forbade me.

> >

> > When I decided a few years back to make JHora open source and leave JHora

programming to others, my spiritual guru asked me to rethink.

> >

> > In July 2009, he suddenly told me without any context, " they are going to

try to take over Jagannatha Hora. You must stand firm and not allow that. I know

you want to get out of this, but there is more you need to do for the Jyotish

world and JHora is an important vehicle. If they take over, all your effort so

far will go waste. They will promote dogmatism, create confusion, kill research

and eventually make it commercial like everything else they are doing today. You

must stand firm. They will invoke Krishna's name, but realize that nobody owns

Krishna. I forbid you from giving away JHora to them. Own it, keep it free and

add new researches to it. "

> >

> > (Note: I am mentioning this publicly with the permission of my guru.)

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > Very interestingly, just a few days after he said this, you wrote on the

lists, " I think the time has come when PVR Narasimha and SJC have to part ways " ,

because I had no " faith in Jagannath Mahaprabhu " .

> >

> > And, just a few days later, you wanted a team decided by SJC to take over

JHora and create an " SJC version " , as there were too many options in JHora. I

immediately remembered my guru's words and saw this is as the first step of what

he described.

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > This was my reply to you from August 2009:

> >

> > " I will continue to maintain " Jagannatha Hora " software effort for some more

time.

> >

> > Also, Jagannatha Hora will continue to support " non-SJC " calculations and

options in the interest of the advancement of Jyotish knowledge. As I said, I

will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC recommended settings, if you or an

SJC committee standardize the settings and send them to me via a jhora.ini file.

> >

> > If you or an SJC committee decide that something more is needed, I can

review the expectations and judge whether and how I can help. "

> >

> > * * *

> >

> > Though addressed to someone else, I realize that the above question about

transferring the " ownership of JHora " is indirectly meant for me. But, you

already know my answer! I reproduced it above anyway.

> >

> > Best regards,

> > Narasimha

> > -

> > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

> > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

> > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

> > Spirituality:

> > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> > -

> >

> > vedic astrology , " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> wrote:

> > > om gurave namah

> > > Dear Raj

> > > When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or the

person to whom you gave it?

> > > So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner of

Jagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to him.

> > > Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or such things, so

then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding the software, can we

say that I am even a partial owner of the software? So how is the *Guru

Dakshina?*

> > > In view of the above, some of your statements may seem very untruthful. In

future I can only suggest that you at least get the facts right before making

statements, else you may be seen as one who is telling lies easily.

> > >

> > > If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you are wrong.

> > > Now let me tell you and other list members another thing -

> > > This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 by Narasimha

on behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by another old student ran

away with the SJVC websites and . One thief called Dinanath Das. So,

technically Narasimha was entrusted with the responsibility of having public

forum for Sri Jagannath Center.

> > > Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic Astrology

List*? Is this Narasimha or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away with this list (who

is to stop him?), in what way is he any different from the previous ones who ran

away with things entrusted to them?

> > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has

become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to transfer --

> > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center

> > > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this list of

Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna.

> > > Jaya Bharati

> > > Regards ~

> > > Sanjay Rath

> > > http://srath.cpm

> > >

> > > Raj

> > > Monday, March 08, 2010 3:07 PM

> > > vedic astrology

> > > [vedic astrology] Re: Too many options in JHora

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > >

> > > For quite sometime a lot is being contributed by people who seemingly

> > > have their own axe of little knowledge to grind between a Guru and

> > > Shishya.

> > >

> > > With due respect to all, as an humble learner of astrology the following

> > > thoughts have been occuring in my mind.

> > >

> > > (a) Guru Sanjay Rath had shishyas world over, it is only his great

> > > shishya Narsimha Ji, who gave the world 'JHora " .The website of Narsimha

> > > Ji acknowledges Sanjay Ji His Guru, Still.

> > >

> > > (b) Has Narsimha Ji not repaid the rina of Guru with his great work of

> > > JHora, to a very great extent.How many other shishyas do so in the

> > > present times.How the repayment of rina to a Guru and in what quantum is

> > > fixed, by whom, where,how long ?During every death and birth cycle of

> > > the Shishya ?

> > >

> > > © Many learned and experienced Jyotishis have started finding out

> > > flaws with a number of features/calculations/updation in the JHora. Lots

> > > of views and counter views are being generated about the interpretation

> > > of BPHS and it's usage in JHora. Has any other vidwana/sawant/scholar

> > > (Guru Sanjay Rath Ji and his scholarly shisyas also included)shown his

> > > brriliance in any such creation matching the present JHora!Why all are

> > > hell bent upon creating Tamasha and and adding fresh sub-scripts for a

> > > Film, with No End!

> > >

> > > (d)Narsimha Ji is being accused of earning Bad Karmas et al. He is doing

> > > his best to bear the onslaught of accusations from world over, even from

> > > any Tom and Dick....Does he has no right to work peacefully on his

> > > projects ? Imagine Narsimha Ji ,due to his so called bad karmas, faces

> > > the greatest Predicament like Arjuna in Mahabharata

> > >

> > > and gets a view of the Viraata Krishna ! What may happen ? He can change

> > > the name of JHora to DHora or XHora, changes the Main Symbol,rename the

> > > ND, will any one have the right to question him ? He has all the Kunjis

> > > with him and we are living in So-called " Kaliyuga " , as if nothing of

> > > this sort has ever happened in Satyuga and Tretayuga etc. Can anyone

> > > create a new JHora ? Who will remember Guru Sanjay Ji's contribution in

> > > JHora !

> > >

> > > We are all living in glass houses and throwing stones at each other's

> > > houses. PERIOD. I beg, as one of the humble students of Jyotish. PEACE.

> > >

> > > Raj Bhardwaj

> > >

> > > vedic astrology , Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Manoj ji,

> > > >

> > > > > Sanjay did not seem to have any knowledge of Parampara.

> > > >

> > > > There is some genuine uncommon knowledge taught by Sanjay ji. For

> > > example, Tithi Pravesha works very well. Of course, it may be imperfect

> > > (e.g. solar vs soli-lunar issue I mentioned before), but it works quite

> > > well. As it is not found in any books or classics and as there weren't

> > > too many people who used it before he popularized it, it is reasonable

> > > to assume that Sanjay ji did know some secrets. But the quality of his

> > > teachings is quite erratic and non-uniform. I disagree with you

> > > regarding Parampara and stand by my reading of the situation as

> > > described in the mail below.

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Neelam ji,

> > > >

> > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one

> > > occasion that

> > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon!

> > > Astrology

> > > > > makes much sense, isn't it?

> > > >

> > > > It is interesting that Sri K.N. Rao should be interested in my

> > > horoscope. Please convey my regards to him.

> > > >

> > > > However, it is not factually correct to say that I " came out " NOW. I

> > > first communicated with Sanjay ji in late 1997 and became his student in

> > > spring 1998. I learnt some good knowledge in the next few years. As

> > > Sanjay ji maintains an air of " there is more to this, but I will teach

> > > it later " , you keep giving him the benefit of doubt. I started noticing

> > > inconsistencies in his knowledge and started questioning him, as soon as

> > > 2001-2002. I maintained intellectual independence in all public

> > > exchanges. From 2004, I gave up on Sanjay ji. I convinced myself that I

> > > am dealing with highly corrupted knowledge that also contains some gems

> > > and started independent research to sort things. My intention was to

> > > clean up the mess while remaining within his organization. During

> > > 2005-2006, I nearly gave up astrology as my mind was drawn towards god.

> > > After the seed for the " do homam yourself " movement was sown in 2006, I

> > > was back to astrology seriously. I vigorously pursued independent

> > > astrology research in 2006-2009, without any expectations and with a

> > > much calmer frame of mind. Some of the findings are shared, some are in

> > > the pipeline and some need to be perfected still.

> > > >

> > > > However, I still did not come clean with my honest opinions on Sanjay

> > > ji to caution other students. My spiritual master asked me to stand for

> > > truth without fear and not tolerate dishonesty. He wisely wondered if

> > > fear of offending teacher and creating confusion in people's mind by

> > > rocking the applecart were the only considerations in my mind or if I

> > > was also sub-consciously concerned about losing something by being

> > > truthful and going against them. He reminded me that we come with

> > > nothing and go with nothing and why should we fear anything or seek

> > > anything. He told me to be truthful and honest and do my dharma

> > > sincerely. It slowly sunk in. From 2007-2008, I started hinting at

> > > Sanjay ji's dishonesty and misrepresentations publicly.

> > > >

> > > > Thus, my " coming out " started long back and has been unfolding slowly.

> > > As far as Jyotish knowledge is concerned, I've been on my own for

> > > several years now.

> > > >

> > > > Best regards,

> > > > Narasimha

> > > > -------------------------

> > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,

> > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:

> > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org

> > > > Spirituality:

> > > > Jyotish writings: JyotishWritings

> > > > -------------------------

> > > >

> > > > , neelam gupta neelamgupta07@

> > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Manoj ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > I remember Sh K N Rao's words today. Last year he said on one

> > > occasion that

> > > > > Narsimha is in wrong hands, but he will come out of this soon!

> > > Astrology

> > > > > makes much sense, isn't it?

> > > > >

> > > > > A journey of 17 years through the long-winded tunnel! But the

> > > intelligent

> > > > > enigma has dug really deep and collected much wealth to start

> > > afresh! I

> > > > > appreciate his knowledge and scientific probes which he shares

> > > freely, not

> > > > > to mention the great service done through JHora.

> > > > >

> > > > > Best wishes to Narsimha ji.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > > Neelam

> > > > >

> > > > > On 4 March 2010 10:33, Manoj Kumar mouji99@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As far as my knowledge goes and my acquaintance with Sanjay is

> > > concerned

> > > > > > (when he was working in Delhi at Krishi Bhawan), Sanjay did not

> > > seem to have

> > > > > > any knowledge of Parampara. His uncles (both paternal and

> > > maternal) did not

> > > > > > even consult him astrologically then.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Manoj

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sanjay ji has some good knowledge from parampara, but, having seen

> > > him

> > > > > > closely, I am afraid he got addicted to the adulation he received

> > > from the

> > > > > > community for those secrets. After he ran out of genuine parampara

> > > secrets,

> > > > > > I am afraid he started *manufacturing* " parampara secrets "

> > > irresponsibly. If

> > > > > > a good researcher disguised his researches as parampara secrets,

> > > it would've

> > > > > > been less disastrous. But, unfortunately, Sanjay ji is the worst

> > > researcher

> > > > > > I have seen. He has a highly intuitive mind that can think of so

> > > many things

> > > > > > and connect them in all kinds of ways. Unfortunately, he jumps to

> > > serious

> > > > > > conclusions at the drop of a hat, without any logic or practical

> > > testing.

> > > > > > Even in practical testing, he uses such highly flexible and vague

> > > logic that

> > > > > > he can justify any result with any astrological factor.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Somebody who would be really really good at coming up with *ideas*

> > > for

> > > > > > research is unfortunately presenting those raw ideas by sometimes

> > > explicitly

> > > > > > and sometimes implicitly representing them as the wisdom of a

> > > glorious

> > > > > > parampara. I've seen this closely for a long time. Sanjay ji

> > > revolutionized

> > > > > > Jyotish when he came, but he has been corrupting the subject badly

> > > for

> > > > > > several years now.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I meant to say the above in such blunt words for a long time now,

> > > but I

> > > > > > could not and I kept beating around the bush. Until the day I

> > > could not say

> > > > > > it without even a little anger or frustration in my heart, I did

> > > not want to

> > > > > > use such blunt language. Thanks to the grace of my spiritual

> > > master, I am

> > > > > > today able to say the above without a trace of frustration or

> > > anger in my

> > > > > > heart and in the same way I may state routine observations.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > * * *

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Even in other options, maybe they need to be separated clearly

> > > so as to

> > > > > > avoid confusions for novices like me.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > regards

> > > > > > > Partha

> > > > > >

> > > > > > JHora has hundreds of options because we are unsure of so many

> > > things. We

> > > > > > are groping in the dark. Of course, some people may be glorifying

> > > and even

> > > > > > *selling* that darkness, but that means nothing to me. As a

> > > reasonably

> > > > > > intelligent and conscientious pursuer of Truth, I do know the

> > > difference

> > > > > > between light and darkness. I do know the light we have in the

> > > room is

> > > > > > slowly growing, but I also know that it is still relatively dark.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Astrologers are used to seeing any shapes they want in clouds.

> > > What we need

> > > > > > is quantifiable, measurable and objective rules and methods and

> > > impassioned

> > > > > > search for truth by people who do not have a conflict of interest.

> > > My

> > > > > > personal belief is that we will make great progress over the next

> > > decade and

> > > > > > there will be more light in the field of Jyotish.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The seed was sown by Dr B.V. Raman, who wrote many books on

> > > astrology in

> > > > > > English and brought the subject to mainstream intelligentsia. Sri

> > > K.N. Rao

> > > > > > did yeoman service by taking a stand on ayanamsa and bringing the

> > > focus to

> > > > > > divisional charts etc and the seed became a plant. Pt Sanjay Rath

> > > took the

> > > > > > focus back to the works of maharshis like Parasara and Jaimini and

> > > brought

> > > > > > several restricted parameters into the mainstream. However, as the

> > > plant

> > > > > > grew big, a lot of large weeds came up around the plant.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The hundreds of options in JHora are partly reflective of the

> > > weeds we

> > > > > > have. We need to remove weeds and let the plant grow nicely into a

> > > tree.

> > > > > > However, it has to be done carefully. It will be a shame if the

> > > actual plant

> > > > > > is hurt instead of the weeds. JHora and our understanding of the

> > > knowledge

> > > > > > of rishis will continue to evolve for some more years.

>