Guest guest Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010  Hi  I am a silent member of this group , Please can anybody in this group,help regarding my financial  future , business and please intimate regarding the Dasha which I am passing through, my  details are as follows:- date of birth: 09/01/1966 time of birth:17.48:0hrNakshetra:  AshileshaPlace of birth: Safdarjung hospital New DelhiDay: Sunday --- On Fri, 19/3/10, vedic astrology <vedic astrology > wrote: vedic astrology <vedic astrology > [vedic astrology] Digest Number 8509 vedic astrology Friday, 19 March, 2010, 7:02 PM The Vedic Astrology Discussion Group Messages In This Digest (14 Messages) 1. Mool Purush - seeking knowledge dghole1971 2a. Re: Misc replies (Role of guru, spirituality, Jyotish & money) Prabodh 2b. Re: Misc replies (Role of guru, spirituality, Jyotish & money) chaudhuri.krishnendu 3a. Re: My Daughter's future Haresh(Harry)Nathani 4. how to do good meditation Vikrant 5. greatest guru of all times Vikrant 6. Rahu Desa - Kedu bukthi siva0303 7a. JHora (Re: Misc replies (Role of guru, spirituality, Jyotish & money Narasimha PVR Rao 7b. JHora (Re: Misc replies (Role of guru, spirituality, Jyotish & money Prabodh 8. Jyotish textbook available for a free download Narasimha PVR Rao 9. D-60 and rebirth? Narasimha PVR Rao 10. REGARDING PROFESSIN leena14_bajaj 11a. Re: Rahu - Swarbhanu - Son of Simhika- the Lioness power arun 12. Fw: Accident of Mr Parth Gopal Goel View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages 1. Mool Purush - seeking knowledge Posted by: " dghole1971 " dghole1971  dghole1971 Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:30 am (PDT) || Om Gam Ganapataye Namah || Dear Learned Members, There is a samadhi of Mool Purush in the village my ancestors come from. I have asked a few people and not got a good answer on who is Mool Purush and what he represents. Also, on doing an Internet search I found there are many places with samadhi of Mool Purush. There can be multiple temples for a particular deity but a samadhi means someone was buried there or gave up the body to move on after their work here was done. Why are there multiple places with samadhi of Mool Purush? Also, can the Mool Purush be the Gram-devata (deity of the village)? If anyone has any knowledge please help me understand. Love Dhananjay Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (1) 2a. Re: Misc replies (Role of guru, spirituality, Jyotish & money) Posted by: " Prabodh " amolmandar  amolmandar Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:16 am (PDT) Dear Narsimha Namaste > If one plucks the leaves, flowers and fruits of a small plant in >one's yard and " gives " to people,..... But what about the Beeja! Sanjay gave you the Beeja(I think you should not deny that!) and utilized your Kshetra. That makes Sanjay Father and You become Mother of JHora! So the ownership of JHora is a matter between Mother and Father. Now, the twist in the story is that after the divorced, the Mother of JHora finds another Father! In between, Father of JHora puts up a request for his child's custody since it is not question of his right but also the duty to see welfare of his child. Mother of the child is ready to give the custody but the new father gets attracted towards the beauty of the child! The new father wants to get associated with the child as well. Don't we see similar situation happening with GURu-CHandra- Budha few centuries back with some changes in the role of characters! In the original story, GuruPatni eloped with Chandra but in this case Chandra Patni eloped with Guru! In the original story, in-spite of Gurupatni's confession, Guru still claimed the ownership over Budha as he liked Budha very much. Here as well Guru is claiming the ownership over Budha(Software is in Budha domain!). In the original story Guru was kind enough to give all his knowledge to Budha but in this case it seems Guru is not willing to give anything to Budha(S/W) but still wants to retain it. The Chandra(Sanjay is Atri Gotra) has no other option but to go to Himalayas(Sanjay has Chandra in Kumbha!) to GIVE Sutras(He has Ketu with his UL!). >Father of Jnaneshwar Maharaj was commanded after formal sannyaasa >(renunciation) ..... See again, role and actions are reversed in your case! >A sadguru need not be diplomatic or short-term oriented. I think it will be wise to leave it to sadguru to comment on this. I still wonder why we have to talk to your sadguru through you? I mean we have no ways to confirm whatever you claimed to have happened between you and your sadguru. As you said, we have no means to confirm what Sanjay says as parampara since there is no other person who can confim Sanjay's claims. Same is the case with you! Interesting! Is it Not? Thanks a lot for your Time and Space. Prabodh Vekhande Jai Jai Shankar Har Har Shankar vedic astrology, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr wrote: > > Dear Prabodh, > > > In fact, it is believed in Indian context that Spiritual > > Gurus will encourage " Giving " rather than " Owning " . > > If one plucks the leaves, flowers and fruits of a small plant in one's yard and " gives " to people, it will soon wither away. Instead, if one protects it, chases away anyone approaching the plant for leaves or flowers or fruits and lets it grow into a big tree, then one can " give " leaves, flowers and fruits on a much bigger (and a more permanent) scale later on! > > A sadguru need not be diplomatic or short-term oriented. A sadguru shows a path where one's good karma is maximized and bad karma is minimized. It may not always be the most straight-forward and obvious path! > > Krishna did not teach Arjuna and Dharmaraja to give up the kingdom. He made them fight for it, but without an attachment. A sadguru first causes the spirit of renunciation in one, removes one's attachment and then finally teaches how to act externally like one with attachment though internally there is no attachment. (Of course, it is a very difficult state. One may fall now and then to get up again and keep perfecting it.) > > * * * > > > Now, what I failed to understand is that why in the first > > place you discussed this matter with Your Spiritual Guru? > > As I said below, he himself called me and gave the command. There were happenings along those lines in later days, confirming to me the wisdom in his words.. > > * * * > > > I mean, How your Spiritual Guru entertain a discussion > > regarding non spiritual activity. > > To a seeker, no activity is " non-spiritual " . With *each* action, one is fulfilling old kaarmik debts, creating new debts, increasing/decreasi ng entanglements and increasing/decreasi ng attachment. Each action is important. > > If one has found a sadguru and surrendered completely, nothing is off limits. Unlike relationship with other gurus, which is intellectual, the relationship with spiritual guru should be that of complete surrender. Sometimes, neither intuition nor logic can explain why guru commanded in a way. > > Father of Jnaneshwar Maharaj was commanded after formal sannyaasa (renunciation) by his spiritual guru to return to his wife and beget children. It was (is) considered highly adharmik and loathsome, society looked down upon him and he and his children suffered great insults and abuses. Nevertheless, it enabled Jnaneshwar Maharaj and his great siblings to be born. It enabled the lila of one the greatest saints of the last millennium. His lila was amazing and I don't think it is over yet! > > One having faith in guru should take guru's word as god's word and follow it, no matter how illogical it may seem. > > This obviously implies that one should not be in a hurry to accept someone or the other as spiritual guru. If necessary, one can wait the whole life. As Ramakrishna Paramahamsa used to say, one should test one's guru thoroughly before accepting as spiritual guru. In my case, I accepted Manish as guru two years after his influence started transforming me. > > A few of my experiences with my spiritual guru were mentioned in . Message 3481 describes a few experiences: > > http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom/message/ 3481 > > * * * > > > " Just Give it up to forget all Jyotish and concentrate > > on Spirituality alone " > > My guru made me focus on meditation, reading and homam early on. He made me experience some things. As the interest in astrology dried up, he switched gears. He told me to get back to Jyotish research. He told me I have more to do in Jyotish. He told me I was doing with a wrong attitude earlier and so he had to slow me down. Moreover, he has by now impressed upon me that meditation, homam, reading scriptures etc is not the only way to do spiritual sadhana. He impressed upon me that every action is spiritual sadhana and gives an opportunity to improve one's internal detachment and strive for perfection. > > At the end of the day, one has to accomplish the tasks one has signed up for (one's " dharma " !). Spirituality does not mean running away from one's dharma. Spirituality means being able to fulfil one's dharma with an equanimous mind, even in the midst of a great storm. > > * * * > > Dear Pushya, > > > Your spiritual guru Dr Manish Pandit is the author of a > > Jyotish book which is selling for £18.99 (approximately > > 1,300 rupees) for the past few years. > > I would like to know his opinion (and yours too if you > > would like to share) on the commercialisation of Jyotish. > > I can ask for his response. He is travelling in India now. Meanwhile, I can share my own humble opinion. > > BTW, I do not (and should not) force my views and moral standards in this matter on anyone, though I follow them religiously myself. Those who value my opinion can consider it and others may leave it! > > * * * > > In my opinion, putting a price when sharing one's knowledge of Jyotish is a very bad idea. One has access to the sacred knowledge because of some punya from before and some connection to the knowledge. By placing a material value on it, one is corrupting that connection and wiping off that punya. After all, if one places a *material value* on one's association with a person, that person may be offended and not speak to one again. If one places a material value on sacred knowledge, how can one expect that knowledge to keep coming back to one and be absorbed correctly? > > On top of it, rishis and ancients cautioned against teaching such sacred knowledge to the unworthy. The portion of bad karma received by us for giving sacred knowledge to an unworthy person increases if we materially benefited from that giving and more so if we benefited intentionally. > > In my humble opinion, one is better off giving knowledge of sacred subjects freely and/or taking whatever is voluntarily given and not placing a value on it. > > * * * > > There may be cases where one has to spend money on material aspects associated with sharing one's knowledge. If a fair value is placed strictly on the *material* aspects, then one is not placing any value on the non-material aspects of the knowledge. > > When a book is published and distributed, it will cost money. When my book was published by Sagar publications, they put a value on it based on their formulas. By not making a single cent on it, I kept myself away from any undesirable kaarmik transactions. In Dr Manish Pandit's case that was pointed out, his book was published by himself in UK (and not in India) and distributed by himself. The material costs may have been higher. > > Due to the strength of my beliefs, I may go to extremes such as making conferences free. I estimate the expenses (rent, tickets etc) and take a conference up only if I can afford to pay from my own pocket in the worst case. Then we ask for voluntary donations and I can pay from my pocket if it falls short. However, that's just me. > > As far as sharing knowledge is concerned, it is possible in today's times to reach a lot of worthy students with very little overhead in terms of material costs. > > * * * > > If one uses a sacred subject for living and has no other livelihood, it is more tricky. A saattwik person may leave things to god and live whatever lifestyle is allowed by voluntary donations. If one must charge money for Jyotish, I suggest charging for Jyotish readings than teaching. In Jyotish readings, one is putting one's knowledge to use to help ONE person. In teaching, one is creating a learned person who may help MANY people later on. It is a much bigger karma and atleast keep it pure. > > Of course, these are my 2 cent views based on my poorva janma vaasanas (conditioning from previous lives), upbringing, reading, thinking and internal experience. Those who are wiser than me may feel free to reject my views. > > * * * > > My apologies to members, especially JyotishWritings members, for non-astrological and philosophical mails. > > Jupiter (19Aq55) is still within a couple of degrees from my natal Rahu (18Aq08). I am perhaps in the process of clearing things and all these questions are coming up. As Jupiter pushes ahead, I expect to completely focus on technical matters again. I have several more interesting researches to share. I was (am) focused on simple, verifiable and quantitative Jyotish methods derived from the teachings of rishis and appropriate for our times. I shared some and some more are pending. But this seems like time to clarify (Jupiter) philosophy and disentangle (Jupiter) the entanglements of karma (Rahu). > > Best regards, > Narasimha > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > vedic astrology, " pushyapushya " <pushya@> wrote: > > > > Dear Mr PVR, > > > > Your spiritual guru Dr Manish Pandit is the author of a Jyotish book which is selling for £18.99 (approximately 1,300 rupees) for the past few years. Accordingly to his website, he has plans for a second follow-up book. > > > > In your message 118875 in this (vedic astrology) , you wrote that he forbid you from transferring ownership of Jhora. One of the reasons he gave you in July 2009 was " ... and eventually make it (Jhora) commercial like everything else they are doing today " . > > > > I would like to know his opinion (and yours too if you would like to share) on the commercialisation of Jyotish. > > > > My question is this - what is the difference in consequences, karmic or otherwise, in selling Jyotish in the form of a book compared to other forms (software, magazines, courses, consultations ... etc)? > > > > Your spiritual guru's opinion will be helpful for list members to judge the moral grounds he stands on in current and future discussions on commercialisation of all forms of Jyotish when his views are being shared in the forums through you. > > > > His opinion will also be helpful for aspiring Jyotish software creators, book authors and course creators in deciding whether to charge a fee. > > > > If it is okay to charge fees for Jyotish, how much to charge and where to draw the line what fees are considered reasonable. > > > > If not, how to justify the time and effort spent from not performing a householder' s dharma *even better* by spending more time and effort on make a living to further ensure the long term financial stability of his/her family and loved ones. > > > > I sincerely hope he will clarify this issue once and for all. > > > > Thank you. > > > > Best Wishes, > > Pushya > > vedic astrology, " Prabodh " <amolmandar@ > wrote: > > > > Dear Narsimha Namaste > > > > Actually I did not want to write about all the things that you have started against SJC Parampara and Sanjay in particular, but I was thinking on some points which were not very clear to me and hence wanted your help. You said regarding the first question Sanjay asked, that Your Spiritual Guru objected in " Giving " up the ownership of JHora. Now, what I failed to understand is that why in the first place you discussed this matter with Your Spiritual Guru? I mean, How your Spiritual Guru entertain a discussion regarding non spiritual activity. That to in the absence of one of the member! When You actually created JHora, I presume,Your Spiritual Guru was no where in the picture. How a Spiritual Guru can discuss these 'trivial' issues like ownership of Jyotish software with you when HE was not involved in its inception? > > Secondly, How can a Spiritual Guru comment in this way about any Human being(forget about Sanjay!) the way you said he reacted about Sanjay! At least, in India we see that all Spiritual Gurus(I mean true Spiritual Guru) have always preached " Giving " and have asked all their shishyas to donate. In fact, it is believed in Indian context that Spiritual Gurus will encourage " Giving " rather than " Owning " . But why in this case it is other way round? I mean more Indian reaction from Your Spiritual Guru would have been something like " Just Give it up if Sanjay says so. We will again do something better than that " Or " Just Give it up to forget all Jyotish and concentrate on Spirituality alone " > > > > Another point is, Your Spiritual Guru seems to be great devotee of Shri Gajanan Maharah(This is what He has mentioned in his Astrology book which I have purchased way back from London). I have started a print magazine one year back in Marathi Language that has over 1000 rs, in which I have discussed many astrological things about Shri Gajanan Maharaj. I thought I will send a copy to him. Can you help, getting me to Him? > > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space. > > > > Prabodh Vekhande > > Jai Jai Shankar > > Har Har Shankar > > > > vedic astrology, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > > Pranaam Sanjay, > > > > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to transfer -- > > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this list of Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna. > > > > > > I replied only to question (1) and left question (2) unanswered. I realize that my silence might have been misunderstood and my answer to your hypothetical question might not have been obvious. > > > > > > In case of question (1), I have a specific guidance from my spiritual guru and I cannot disobey him. But, there is no such obstacle in the case of question (2). I am free to do what I wish. > > > > > > If you indeed ask, I will be happy to relinquish the ownership of vedic astrology list. > > > > > > Currently, this list is being managed by Narayan Iyer. I can ask him to transfer it to anyone you may identify. Please let us know if you want us to do it. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > vedic astrology, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual > > > > > and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do > > > > > if I ask him to transfer -- > > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > > > > If my spiritual guru asks me to do it, I will do so without batting an eyelid. However, he has warned of this and explicitly forbade me. > > > > > > > > When I decided a few years back to make JHora open source and leave JHora programming to others, my spiritual guru asked me to rethink. > > > > > > > > In July 2009, he suddenly told me without any context, " they are going to try to take over Jagannatha Hora. You must stand firm and not allow that. I know you want to get out of this, but there is more you need to do for the Jyotish world and JHora is an important vehicle. If they take over, all your effort so far will go waste. They will promote dogmatism, create confusion, kill research and eventually make it commercial like everything else they are doing today. You must stand firm. They will invoke Krishna's name, but realize that nobody owns Krishna. I forbid you from giving away JHora to them. Own it, keep it free and add new researches to it. " > > > > > > > > (Note: I am mentioning this publicly with the permission of my guru.) > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Very interestingly, just a few days after he said this, you wrote on the lists, " I think the time has come when PVR Narasimha and SJC have to part ways " , because I had no " faith in Jagannath Mahaprabhu " . > > > > > > > > And, just a few days later, you wanted a team decided by SJC to take over JHora and create an " SJC version " , as there were too many options in JHora. I immediately remembered my guru's words and saw this is as the first step of what he described. > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > This was my reply to you from August 2009: > > > > > > > > " I will continue to maintain " Jagannatha Hora " software effort for some more time. > > > > > > > > Also, Jagannatha Hora will continue to support " non-SJC " calculations and options in the interest of the advancement of Jyotish knowledge. As I said, I will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC recommended settings, if you or an SJC committee standardize the settings and send them to me via a jhora.ini file. > > > > > > > > If you or an SJC committee decide that something more is needed, I can review the expectations and judge whether and how I can help. " > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > Though addressed to someone else, I realize that the above question about transferring the " ownership of JHora " is indirectly meant for me. But, you already know my answer! I reproduced it above anyway. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> wrote: > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > Dear Raj > > > > > When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or the person to whom you gave it? > > > > > So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner of Jagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to him. > > > > > Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or such things, so then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding the software, can we say that I am even a partial owner of the software? So how is the *Guru Dakshina?* > > > > > In view of the above, some of your statements may seem very untruthful. In future I can only suggest that you at least get the facts right before making statements, else you may be seen as one who is telling lies easily. > > > > > > > > > > If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you are wrong. > > > > > Now let me tell you and other list members another thing - > > > > > This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 by Narasimha on behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by another old student ran away with the SJVC websites and . One thief called Dinanath Das. So, technically Narasimha was entrusted with the responsibility of having public forum for Sri Jagannath Center. > > > > > Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic Astrology List*? Is this Narasimha or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away with this list (who is to stop him?), in what way is he any different from the previous ones who ran away with things entrusted to them? > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to transfer -- > > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this list of Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna. > > > > > Jaya Bharati > > > > > Regards ~ > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > http://srath. cpm > Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (3) 2b. Re: Misc replies (Role of guru, spirituality, Jyotish & money) Posted by: " chaudhuri.krishnendu " krishnenduchdhr  chaudhuri.krishnendu Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:05 am (PDT) Dear Prabodh > >A sadguru need not be diplomatic or short-term oriented.> > I think it will be wise to leave it to sadguru to comment on this. I still wonder why we have to talk to your sadguru through you? I mean we have no ways to confirm whatever you claimed to have happened between you and your sadguru. As you said, we have no means to confirm what Sanjay says as parampara since there is no other person who can confim Sanjay's claims. Same is the case with you! Interesting! Is it Not? You try to judge sadgurus actions by reasons.I think you have forgotten my friend the first and foremost necessity of spirituality is FAITH.Who do we think we are that we demand proof of actions of a sadguru?You think a sadguru to be a mere human.In that mortal frame every sadguru is an insulator of the sins of this universe.He is the most nearest representative of God. Regarding Narasimha's Gurudev I think you better not speak about him lest our tongue slip something foul.By the words you have spoken about Manish Panditji it seems you are completely unaware of him.Remember friend not everybody in this world live on the opposite horizon of God. vedic astrology, " Prabodh " <amolmandar@ ...> wrote: > > > Dear Narsimha Namaste > > > If one plucks the leaves, flowers and fruits of a small plant in >one's yard and " gives " to people,..... > > But what about the Beeja! Sanjay gave you the Beeja(I think you should not deny that!) and utilized your Kshetra. That makes Sanjay Father and You become Mother of JHora! So the ownership of JHora is a matter between Mother and Father. Now, the twist in the story is that after the divorced, the Mother of JHora finds another Father! In between, Father of JHora puts up a request for his child's custody since it is not question of his right but also the duty to see welfare of his child. > > Mother of the child is ready to give the custody but the new father gets attracted towards the beauty of the child! The new father wants to get associated with the child as well. Don't we see similar situation happening with GURu-CHandra- Budha few centuries back with some changes in the role of characters! In the original story, GuruPatni eloped with Chandra but in this case Chandra Patni eloped with Guru! In the original story, in-spite of Gurupatni's confession, Guru still claimed the ownership over Budha as he liked Budha very much. Here as well Guru is claiming the ownership over Budha(Software is in Budha domain!). In the original story Guru was kind enough to give all his knowledge to Budha but in this case it seems Guru is not > willing to give anything to Budha(S/W) but still wants to retain it. The Chandra(Sanjay is Atri Gotra) has no other option but to go to Himalayas(Sanjay has Chandra in Kumbha!) to GIVE Sutras(He has Ketu with his UL!). > > > >Father of Jnaneshwar Maharaj was commanded after formal sannyaasa >(renunciation) ..... > > See again, role and actions are reversed in your case! > > >A sadguru need not be diplomatic or short-term oriented. > > I think it will be wise to leave it to sadguru to comment on this. I still wonder why we have to talk to your sadguru through you? I mean we have no ways to confirm whatever you claimed to have happened between you and your sadguru. As you said, we have no means to confirm what Sanjay says as parampara since there is no other person who can confim Sanjay's claims. Same is the case with you! Interesting! Is it Not? > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space. > > Prabodh Vekhande > Jai Jai Shankar > Har Har Shankar > vedic astrology, Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ wrote: > > > > Dear Prabodh, > > > > > In fact, it is believed in Indian context that Spiritual > > > Gurus will encourage " Giving " rather than " Owning " . > > > > If one plucks the leaves, flowers and fruits of a small plant in one's yard and " gives " to people, it will soon wither away. Instead, if one protects it, chases away anyone approaching the plant for leaves or flowers or fruits and lets it grow into a big tree, then one can " give " leaves, flowers and fruits on a much bigger (and a more permanent) scale later on! > > > > A sadguru need not be diplomatic or short-term oriented. A sadguru shows a path where one's good karma is maximized and bad karma is minimized. It may not always be the most straight-forward and obvious path! > > > > Krishna did not teach Arjuna and Dharmaraja to give up the kingdom. He made them fight for it, but without an attachment. A sadguru first causes the spirit of renunciation in one, removes one's attachment and then finally teaches how to act externally like one with attachment though internally there is no attachment. (Of course, it is a very difficult state. One may fall now and then to get up again and keep perfecting it.) > > > > * * * > > > > > Now, what I failed to understand is that why in the first > > > place you discussed this matter with Your Spiritual Guru? > > > > As I said below, he himself called me and gave the command. There were happenings along those lines in later days, confirming to me the wisdom in his words.. > > > > * * * > > > > > I mean, How your Spiritual Guru entertain a discussion > > > regarding non spiritual activity. > > > > To a seeker, no activity is " non-spiritual " . With *each* action, one is fulfilling old kaarmik debts, creating new debts, increasing/decreasi ng entanglements and increasing/decreasi ng attachment. Each action is important. > > > > If one has found a sadguru and surrendered completely, nothing is off limits. Unlike relationship with other gurus, which is intellectual, the relationship with spiritual guru should be that of complete surrender. Sometimes, neither intuition nor logic can explain why guru commanded in a way. > > > > Father of Jnaneshwar Maharaj was commanded after formal sannyaasa (renunciation) by his spiritual guru to return to his wife and beget children. It was (is) considered highly adharmik and loathsome, society looked down upon him and he and his children suffered great insults and abuses. Nevertheless, it enabled Jnaneshwar Maharaj and his great siblings to be born. It enabled the lila of one the greatest saints of the last millennium. His lila was amazing and I don't think it is over yet! > > > > One having faith in guru should take guru's word as god's word and follow it, no matter how illogical it may seem. > > > > This obviously implies that one should not be in a hurry to accept someone or the other as spiritual guru. If necessary, one can wait the whole life. As Ramakrishna Paramahamsa used to say, one should test one's guru thoroughly before accepting as spiritual guru. In my case, I accepted Manish as guru two years after his influence started transforming me. > > > > A few of my experiences with my spiritual guru were mentioned in . Message 3481 describes a few experiences: > > > > http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom/message/ 3481 > > > > * * * > > > > > " Just Give it up to forget all Jyotish and concentrate > > > on Spirituality alone " > > > > My guru made me focus on meditation, reading and homam early on. He made me experience some things. As the interest in astrology dried up, he switched gears. He told me to get back to Jyotish research. He told me I have more to do in Jyotish. He told me I was doing with a wrong attitude earlier and so he had to slow me down. Moreover, he has by now impressed upon me that meditation, homam, reading scriptures etc is not the only way to do spiritual sadhana. He impressed upon me that every action is spiritual sadhana and gives an opportunity to improve one's internal detachment and strive for perfection. > > > > At the end of the day, one has to accomplish the tasks one has signed up for (one's " dharma " !). Spirituality does not mean running away from one's dharma. Spirituality means being able to fulfil one's dharma with an equanimous mind, even in the midst of a great storm. > > > > * * * > > > > Dear Pushya, > > > > > Your spiritual guru Dr Manish Pandit is the author of a > > > Jyotish book which is selling for £18.99 (approximately > > > 1,300 rupees) for the past few years. > > > I would like to know his opinion (and yours too if you > > > would like to share) on the commercialisation of Jyotish. > > > > I can ask for his response. He is travelling in India now. Meanwhile, I can share my own humble opinion. > > > > BTW, I do not (and should not) force my views and moral standards in this matter on anyone, though I follow them religiously myself. Those who value my opinion can consider it and others may leave it! > > > > * * * > > > > In my opinion, putting a price when sharing one's knowledge of Jyotish is a very bad idea. One has access to the sacred knowledge because of some punya from before and some connection to the knowledge. By placing a material value on it, one is corrupting that connection and wiping off that punya. After all, if one places a *material value* on one's association with a person, that person may be offended and not speak to one again. If one places a material value on sacred knowledge, how can one expect that knowledge to keep coming back to one and be absorbed correctly? > > > > On top of it, rishis and ancients cautioned against teaching such sacred knowledge to the unworthy. The portion of bad karma received by us for giving sacred knowledge to an unworthy person increases if we materially benefited from that giving and more so if we benefited intentionally. > > > > In my humble opinion, one is better off giving knowledge of sacred subjects freely and/or taking whatever is voluntarily given and not placing a value on it. > > > > * * * > > > > There may be cases where one has to spend money on material aspects associated with sharing one's knowledge. If a fair value is placed strictly on the *material* aspects, then one is not placing any value on the non-material aspects of the knowledge. > > > > When a book is published and distributed, it will cost money. When my book was published by Sagar publications, they put a value on it based on their formulas. By not making a single cent on it, I kept myself away from any undesirable kaarmik transactions. In Dr Manish Pandit's case that was pointed out, his book was published by himself in UK (and not in India) and distributed by himself. The material costs may have been higher. > > > > Due to the strength of my beliefs, I may go to extremes such as making conferences free. I estimate the expenses (rent, tickets etc) and take a conference up only if I can afford to pay from my own pocket in the worst case. Then we ask for voluntary donations and I can pay from my pocket if it falls short. However, that's just me. > > > > As far as sharing knowledge is concerned, it is possible in today's times to reach a lot of worthy students with very little overhead in terms of material costs. > > > > * * * > > > > If one uses a sacred subject for living and has no other livelihood, it is more tricky. A saattwik person may leave things to god and live whatever lifestyle is allowed by voluntary donations. If one must charge money for Jyotish, I suggest charging for Jyotish readings than teaching. In Jyotish readings, one is putting one's knowledge to use to help ONE person. In teaching, one is creating a learned person who may help MANY people later on. It is a much bigger karma and atleast keep it pure. > > > > Of course, these are my 2 cent views based on my poorva janma vaasanas (conditioning from previous lives), upbringing, reading, thinking and internal experience. Those who are wiser than me may feel free to reject my views. > > > > * * * > > > > My apologies to members, especially JyotishWritings members, for non-astrological and philosophical mails. > > > > Jupiter (19Aq55) is still within a couple of degrees from my natal Rahu (18Aq08). I am perhaps in the process of clearing things and all these questions are coming up. As Jupiter pushes ahead, I expect to completely focus on technical matters again. I have several more interesting researches to share. I was (am) focused on simple, verifiable and quantitative Jyotish methods derived from the teachings of rishis and appropriate for our times. I shared some and some more are pending. But this seems like time to clarify (Jupiter) philosophy and disentangle (Jupiter) the entanglements of karma (Rahu). > > > > Best regards, > > Narasimha > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > vedic astrology, " pushyapushya " <pushya@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Mr PVR, > > > > > > Your spiritual guru Dr Manish Pandit is the author of a Jyotish book which is selling for £18.99 (approximately 1,300 rupees) for the past few years. Accordingly to his website, he has plans for a second follow-up book. > > > > > > In your message 118875 in this (vedic astrology) , you wrote that he forbid you from transferring ownership of Jhora. One of the reasons he gave you in July 2009 was " ... and eventually make it (Jhora) commercial like everything else they are doing today " . > > > > > > I would like to know his opinion (and yours too if you would like to share) on the commercialisation of Jyotish. > > > > > > My question is this - what is the difference in consequences, karmic or otherwise, in selling Jyotish in the form of a book compared to other forms (software, magazines, courses, consultations ... etc)? > > > > > > Your spiritual guru's opinion will be helpful for list members to judge the moral grounds he stands on in current and future discussions on commercialisation of all forms of Jyotish when his views are being shared in the forums through you. > > > > > > His opinion will also be helpful for aspiring Jyotish software creators, book authors and course creators in deciding whether to charge a fee. > > > > > > If it is okay to charge fees for Jyotish, how much to charge and where to draw the line what fees are considered reasonable. > > > > > > If not, how to justify the time and effort spent from not performing a householder' s dharma *even better* by spending more time and effort on make a living to further ensure the long term financial stability of his/her family and loved ones. > > > > > > I sincerely hope he will clarify this issue once and for all. > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > Best Wishes, > > > Pushya > > > > vedic astrology, " Prabodh " <amolmandar@ > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Narsimha Namaste > > > > > > Actually I did not want to write about all the things that you have started against SJC Parampara and Sanjay in particular, but I was thinking on some points which were not very clear to me and hence wanted your help. You said regarding the first question Sanjay asked, that Your Spiritual Guru objected in " Giving " up the ownership of JHora. Now, what I failed to understand is that why in the first place you discussed this matter with Your Spiritual Guru? I mean, How your Spiritual Guru entertain a discussion regarding non spiritual activity. That to in the absence of one of the member! When You actually created JHora, I presume,Your Spiritual Guru was no where in the picture. How a Spiritual Guru can discuss these 'trivial' issues like ownership of Jyotish software with you when HE was not involved in its inception? > > > Secondly, How can a Spiritual Guru comment in this way about any Human being(forget about Sanjay!) the way you said he reacted about Sanjay! At least, in India we see that all Spiritual Gurus(I mean true Spiritual Guru) have always preached " Giving " and have asked all their shishyas to donate. In fact, it is believed in Indian context that Spiritual Gurus will encourage " Giving " rather than " Owning " . But why in this case it is other way round? I mean more Indian reaction from Your Spiritual Guru would have been something like " Just Give it up if Sanjay says so. We will again do something better than that " Or " Just Give it up to forget all Jyotish and concentrate on Spirituality alone " > > > > > > Another point is, Your Spiritual Guru seems to be great devotee of Shri Gajanan Maharah(This is what He has mentioned in his Astrology book which I have purchased way back from London). I have started a print magazine one year back in Marathi Language that has over 1000 rs, in which I have discussed many astrological things about Shri Gajanan Maharaj. I thought I will send a copy to him. Can you help, getting me to Him? > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space. > > > > > > Prabodh Vekhande > > > Jai Jai Shankar > > > Har Har Shankar > > > > > > vedic astrology, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Pranaam Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to transfer -- > > > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this list of Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna. > > > > > > > > I replied only to question (1) and left question (2) unanswered. I realize that my silence might have been misunderstood and my answer to your hypothetical question might not have been obvious. > > > > > > > > In case of question (1), I have a specific guidance from my spiritual guru and I cannot disobey him. But, there is no such obstacle in the case of question (2). I am free to do what I wish. > > > > > > > > If you indeed ask, I will be happy to relinquish the ownership of vedic astrology list. > > > > > > > > Currently, this list is being managed by Narayan Iyer. I can ask him to transfer it to anyone you may identify. Please let us know if you want us to do it. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Sanjay, > > > > > > > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual > > > > > > and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do > > > > > > if I ask him to transfer -- > > > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > > > > > > If my spiritual guru asks me to do it, I will do so without batting an eyelid. However, he has warned of this and explicitly forbade me. > > > > > > > > > > When I decided a few years back to make JHora open source and leave JHora programming to others, my spiritual guru asked me to rethink. > > > > > > > > > > In July 2009, he suddenly told me without any context, " they are going to try to take over Jagannatha Hora. You must stand firm and not allow that. I know you want to get out of this, but there is more you need to do for the Jyotish world and JHora is an important vehicle. If they take over, all your effort so far will go waste. They will promote dogmatism, create confusion, kill research and eventually make it commercial like everything else they are doing today. You must stand firm. They will invoke Krishna's name, but realize that nobody owns Krishna. I forbid you from giving away JHora to them. Own it, keep it free and add new researches to it. " > > > > > > > > > > (Note: I am mentioning this publicly with the permission of my guru.) > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > Very interestingly, just a few days after he said this, you wrote on the lists, " I think the time has come when PVR Narasimha and SJC have to part ways " , because I had no " faith in Jagannath Mahaprabhu " . > > > > > > > > > > And, just a few days later, you wanted a team decided by SJC to take over JHora and create an " SJC version " , as there were too many options in JHora. I immediately remembered my guru's words and saw this is as the first step of what he described. > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > This was my reply to you from August 2009: > > > > > > > > > > " I will continue to maintain " Jagannatha Hora " software effort for some more time. > > > > > > > > > > Also, Jagannatha Hora will continue to support " non-SJC " calculations and options in the interest of the advancement of Jyotish knowledge. As I said, I will be happy to add a menu item to apply SJC recommended settings, if you or an SJC committee standardize the settings and send them to me via a jhora.ini file. > > > > > > > > > > If you or an SJC committee decide that something more is needed, I can review the expectations and judge whether and how I can help. " > > > > > > > > > > * * * > > > > > > > > > > Though addressed to someone else, I realize that the above question about transferring the " ownership of JHora " is indirectly meant for me. But, you already know my answer! I reproduced it above anyway. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings, > > > > > " Do It Yourself " ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana: > > > > > http://www.VedicAst rologer.org > > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFil ms.org > > > > > Spirituality: http://groups. / group/vedic- wisdom > > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups. / group/JyotishWri tings > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, " Sanjay Rath " <sjrath@> wrote: > > > > > > om gurave namah > > > > > > Dear Raj > > > > > > When you give something to someone, who is the owner of it? You or the person to whom you gave it? > > > > > > So according to this simple logic, who is supposed to be the owner of Jagannath Hora? If it is not Sanjay Rath, then it was never given to him. > > > > > > Secondly, I don't want to make money from this software or such things, so then what if I wish something and it is not done regarding the software, can we say that I am even a partial owner of the software? So how is the *Guru Dakshina?* > > > > > > In view of the above, some of your statements may seem very untruthful. In future I can only suggest that you at least get the facts right before making statements, else you may be seen as one who is telling lies easily. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think I am worried about changing of names of JHora, you are wrong. > > > > > > Now let me tell you and other list members another thing - > > > > > > This Vedic Astrology list was created long time back in 1998 by Narasimha on behalf of Sri Jagannath. Other groups were created by another old student ran away with the SJVC websites and . One thief called Dinanath Das. So, technically Narasimha was entrusted with the responsibility of having public forum for Sri Jagannath Center. > > > > > > Now, can you please check and tell me *who is the owner of Vedic Astrology List*? Is this Narasimha or SJC? And if Narasimha runs away with this list (who is to stop him?), in what way is he any different from the previous ones who ran away with things entrusted to them? > > > > > > Let us assume that Narasimha has become completely spiritual and has become very renounced - what do you think he will do if I ask him to transfer -- > > > > > > (1) Ownership of JHora to Sri Jagannath Center > > > > > > (2) Ownership of this list to say ... You Raj, you can handle this list of Jagannath. You seem to have faith in Krishna. > > > > > > Jaya Bharati > > > > > > Regards ~ > > > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > > > http://srath. cpm > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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