Guest guest Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 Can someone explain what is the difference in Kalai and is one free to choose his/her Kalai as just like I am born as Iyer/Iyengar this is also decided by birth. 2. Is Nalayiarm belongs to and sole property of one sect and forbidden for others and so are the Divyadesams? 3. Does it mean a Vadakalai should not have Darshan and Sevai of Tenkalai dominated divya desam- Is Sriman Narayan also divided?Does He differentiate? 4. If one vadakalai Sampradyam person fobidden from reciting Nalayiram ? Regards ______________________________\ ____ Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. http://search./search?fr=oni_on_mail & p=summer+activities+for+kids & cs=bz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Dear swamin, All these traditions are our limitations or even resistance or defense against comprehending the supreme truth. It is amazing how we Hindus have taken a global religion and pushed it into a gully- no wonder it stinks! It is neither vadakalai, nor tenkalai, or mudre or vibhuti or advaitam, or dvaitam or everything in-between. However nostalgic/fun each tradition may be, we should not take them seriously. First we should try to understand the fundamental principles of Sanatana dharmam. Every sect is reflecting one aspect of it while masking or even trying to deny outright other aspects. Like Dr. Ambedkar said, Hinduism has to define the principles first (see attached files), and not just have set of rules, which nobody can follow- including the one's who formulated them. Thus we are infidels! He at least identified the problem and left it for Hindus to work it out and he himself walked out of it! The only book we can truly follow is Bhagavadgita (after liberating it from the emnace of the various bhAshyams!). dAsan K.S. tatachar ranganathan parthasarathi <ranga47 Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:13 pm kalai Can someone explain what is the difference in Kalai and is one free to choose his/her Kalai as just like I am born as Iyer/Iyengar this is also decided by birth. 2. Is Nalayiarm belongs to and sole property of one sect and forbidden for others and so are the Divyadesams? 3. Does it mean a Vadakalai should not have Darshan and Sevai of Tenkalai dominated divya desam- Is Sriman Narayan also divided?Does He differentiate? 4. If one vadakalai Sampradyam person fobidden from reciting Nalayiram ? Regards Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. http://search./search?fr=oni_on_mail & p=summer+activities+for+kids & cs=bz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2007 Report Share Posted July 29, 2007 Short answers for you: 1. One is free to choose kalai, but please understand that the the vadakalai sect was formed out of the tenkalai sect only around 1816AD. So, for about 800 years since the birth of Ramanuja, there was only one sect (books have been published on this subject based on extensive original sources and inscriptions and accepted by courts). Since 1816AD, there have been concerted attempts to change Perumal and temple thirumans to vadakalai from tenkalai everywhere, with success in places like the Varadaraja Perumal temple in Kanchi. However, by court order, at this temple, where only the Utsavar is ancient, the Utsavar cannot wear any thiruman at all! And in Tirumalai, the ancient Moolavar wears a hybrid thiruman! 2. On Naalayaram, please understand that one vadakalai Tatacharya (a family that has both tenkalais and vadakalais in it), made a signed representation in Madras High Court on behalf of all vadakalais that the Naalayaram is only for shudras and women and that it should not be recited in temples or in goshtis (the court did not accept this claim). This obviously did not go well with the later dravidian politics and government in Tamil Nadu, and there have been recent attempts to integrate Naalayaram as part of vadakalai sampradayam as well. It is my sincere hope that people don't neglect the Vedas altogether in the process - whatever spin anyone may attempt, there is no Naalayaram without the Vedas. 3. No one can prevent any Hindu from having darshan at any temple in India. However, temple traditions set in place since Sri Ramanuja's time (and much of it by Sri Ramanuja himself) should not be changed to suit the whim of any particular community simply on the strength a little monetary contribution at the present time. Consider the wishes of those who spent a fortune and effort building these temples and of others over the centuries who have donated, in some cases, their entire wealth, to keep the traditions going for the benefit of subsequent generations. Also, is it not shameful to force one's ego on Perumal by trying th change the thiruman he has been wearing or traditions that have been followed for him since the temples were ordained some 1500 years ago and where the Alwars sang their praise? Please understand that the differences between the sects are trivial in terms of tradition and there is absolutely no genetic difference based on modern DNA studies. Even the 10-15 minor philosophical points (e.g. the relative importance of Sri Lakshmi in moksha) are trivial in the context of the Vedas and Yoga (in Meditative Yoga, Lakshmi is light but the focus is on vibrations). The only thing that remains is the superficial thiruman, which most Sri Vaishnavas dont wear often anyway these days. Even with the thirman, there are atleast 3 different formats for the vadakalai thiruman (e.g., for shishyas of Ahobila mutt, the U must touch the nose, etc.). When the survival of the Sri Vaishnava community in the next generation, at least in its current form, is in question, why are we trying to force differences? The length and depth of ancient tradition in these temples is a great strength in itself - if they can be changed overnight to suit the whim of a few in one community, what's there to prevent christians or muslims from a takeover by easily donating a few crores to each temple? Its a time to unite not be divided. Genghis , ranganathan parthasarathi <ranga47 wrote: > > Can someone explain what is the difference in Kalai and is one free to choose his/her Kalai as just like I am born as Iyer/Iyengar this is also decided by birth. > 2. Is Nalayiarm belongs to and sole property of one sect and forbidden for others and so are the Divyadesams? > 3. Does it mean a Vadakalai should not have Darshan and Sevai of Tenkalai dominated divya desam- Is Sriman Narayan also divided?Does He differentiate? > 4. If one vadakalai Sampradyam person fobidden from reciting Nalayiram ? > > Regards > > > > > > > ______________________\ ____________ > Got a little couch potato? > Check out fun summer activities for kids. > http://search./search?fr=oni_on_mail & p=summer+activities+for+ki\ ds & cs=bz > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2007 Report Share Posted July 30, 2007 Dear Sri ranganathan parthasarathy, As a student of Sri vaishnavism I should say, with malice towards none ,that kalai differences rose much later than the period of vedanta Desika or Pillailokacharya.Possibly in the later half of 17th and early part of 18th century when scholars started writing commentaries on Swamy Desika's Srimath Rahasyathraya saaram.The differences on the position of Sri and her qualification to grant Mokasha are the major points of disagreement. Other disagreements are very notional like the interpretation of one of His kalyana gunas-VATSALYAM-etc which are very trivial. We have been carrying on this crusade against each other for two centuries and is it not time for us to review the entire thing and arrive at a solution.?We should honestly admit that with the advancement of many factors- none of Srivaishnava family today can call itself as the pure follower of sri vaishnava sampradhaya as envisaged by Ramanuja -with inter caste and inter religious marriages with the full consent of the parents.I myself have seen many marriage invitations our girls or boys getting married to Lucy or Laila and Jony or Sheriff but the pity is "With acharya's anugraha" is invariably printed -Lord Narayana only knows whether the Acharya has given his consent.! I honestly admit that till the time I started taking up studying Vaishanviam in Madras University I was not aware of even the name of Pillai Lokacharya or Alagiya manavala Nayanar as I was born of a vadakalai parentage.For us all is Swami Desikan only!Same is the case with Thenkalai-Swami Deasikan has gracefully handed over to us hundreds of slokas on Lord and Sri but they are depriving themseves of the opportunity to recite them as they are allowed to learn only the slokas of their acharyas which are very few in number.With the result the Holy 4000 is the only resort for them. The Holy 4000 is not the sole property of any sect !The pity is I am not allowed to recite it in Trplicane Temple as I am a born vadakalai nor a learned scholar of Tenkalai is allowed to recite in Thiruvallur temple.This is the irony in our community today! This is only the tip of the iceberg of the prevailing situation in Srivaishnavism.Unless we stand united the fall for the sampradhaya is imminent and the ugly incident in Triplicane ,I should say ,is only a beginning for that! regards T K Parthasarathy with love and cheers T KParthasarathy Chennai ranganathan parthasarathi <ranga47 To: Subject: kalaiTue, 24 Jul 2007 19:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Can someone explain what is the difference in Kalai and is one free to choose his/her Kalai as just like I am born as Iyer/Iyengar this is also decided by birth.2. Is Nalayiarm belongs to and sole property of one sect and forbidden for others and so are the Divyadesams? 3. Does it mean a Vadakalai should not have Darshan and Sevai of Tenkalai dominated divya desam- Is Sriman Narayan also divided?Does He differentiate?4. If one vadakalai Sampradyam person fobidden from reciting Nalayiram ?Regards________Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids.http://search./search?fr=oni_on_mail & p=summer+activities+for+kids & cs=bz Amity Quizzes. We nurture talent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2007 Report Share Posted July 30, 2007 Sir, It is only the unwanted pride and false ego in the minds of halfbaked persons, unfortunately they are more in Number, this kalai difference is given too much importance. When Our Seer Sri Ramanuja could see Narayana in all most all communities and could make the Moslem Princess reach the holy feet of the Lord, it is injustice of unparallel magnitude to him that the sri vaishavas are discriminated on the basis of Kalais. As rightly stated by Shri Parthasarathy, now marriages have transcended regligions leave alone kalais. When such is the case, the vaishanavite friends who are bent on insisting on their kalai domination should realise that they are further fragmenting the society in the name of kalai. It is a matter of irony that the Thengalai friends are deprived of Vedantha Desika Sthothra Padams and Vadakalai of Pillai Lokacharya's. This Kalai difference cannot be resolved through emails or through small meetings. The Jeeiyars of both kalais should sit together and try to develop a common code of daily religious practice in the vaishavite temples. If this happens definitely there will be a sea change in the attitude of both the kalais. But the million dollar question is "Will it happen" and if so "When it will happen? Pranams R. Govindaraj"PARTHASARATHY T.K" <t_kparthasarathy wrote: Dear Sri ranganathan parthasarathy, As a student of Sri vaishnavism I should say, with malice towards none ,that kalai differences rose much later than the period of vedanta Desika or Pillailokacharya.Possibly in the later half of 17th and early part of 18th century when scholars started writing commentaries on Swamy Desika's Srimath Rahasyathraya saaram.The differences on the position of Sri and her qualification to grant Mokasha are the major points of disagreement. Other disagreements are very notional like the interpretation of one of His kalyana gunas-VATSALYAM-etc which are very trivial. We have been carrying on this crusade against each other for two centuries and is it not time for us to review the entire thing and arrive at a solution.?We should honestly admit that with the advancement of many factors- none of Srivaishnava family today can call itself as the pure follower of sri vaishnava sampradhaya as envisaged by Ramanuja -with inter caste and inter religious marriages with the full consent of the parents.I myself have seen many marriage invitations our girls or boys getting married to Lucy or Laila and Jony or Sheriff but the pity is "With acharya's anugraha" is invariably printed -Lord Narayana only knows whether the Acharya has given his consent.! I honestly admit that till the time I started taking up studying Vaishanviam in Madras University I was not aware of even the name of Pillai Lokacharya or Alagiya manavala Nayanar as I was born of a vadakalai parentage.For us all is Swami Desikan only!Same is the case with Thenkalai-Swami Deasikan has gracefully handed over to us hundreds of slokas on Lord and Sri but they are depriving themseves of the opportunity to recite them as they are allowed to learn only the slokas of their acharyas which are very few in number.With the result the Holy 4000 is the only resort for them. The Holy 4000 is not the sole property of any sect !The pity is I am not allowed to recite it in Trplicane Temple as I am a born vadakalai nor a learned scholar of Tenkalai is allowed to recite in Thiruvallur temple.This is the irony in our community today! This is only the tip of the iceberg of the prevailing situation in Srivaishnavism.Unless we stand united the fall for the sampradhaya is imminent and the ugly incident in Triplicane ,I should say ,is only a beginning for that! regards T K Parthasarathy with love and cheers T KParthasarathy Chennai ranganathan parthasarathi <ranga47 > To: Subject: kalaiTue, 24 Jul 2007 19:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Can someone explain what is the difference in Kalai and is one free to choose his/her Kalai as just like I am born as Iyer/Iyengar this is also decided by birth.2. Is Nalayiarm belongs to and sole property of one sect and forbidden for others and so are the Divyadesams? 3. Does it mean a Vadakalai should not have Darshan and Sevai of Tenkalai dominated divya desam- Is Sriman Narayan also divided?Does He differentiate?4. If one vadakalai Sampradyam person fobidden from reciting Nalayiram ?Regards________Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids.http://search./search?fr=oni_on_mail & p=summer+activities+for+kids & cs=bz Amity Quizzes. We nurture talent Download prohibited? No problem. CHAT from any browser, without download. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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