[RamanujaMission] FW: unity amongst vaishnavites

November 7, 2009

SRI : ||

Hare Krishna.

PraNAms to all.

A Very Welcome Subject and we should understand the need of Unity.

Despite fervent appeals from very many people, interested in the protection, preservation and promotion of The Great Ramanuja SiddhAntham , for the Unity and total elimination of differentiation of Vadakalai & Thenkalai sects , the problem persists with narrow outlooks, which affects our community as a whole.The differences are more in the form of interpretation, while the fact remains that we all accept Swami Ramanuja as The Undisputed Head of all VisishtAdhavaithees and claim that any BhAgavathA who surrenders to Sriman Narayana is most eligible for our respects and reverance.

It is due to some people who have not been properly lead into The Great Path laid by Swami Ramanuja , who still cling to The Kalai Culture, damaging the very roots of Sri Vaishnavism.

Our only aim should be Total Surrender to The Lord Sriman Narayana, by serving His BhakthAs. Let us all unite and see that the differences in the name of the subsects be eliminated by proper education of the Basic Roots of our Sat SampradAyam established by Swami Ramanuja.

This will immensely help our future generations not to go astray and follow our tradtions & faith with ease & dignity.

No heartburn intended & if any one is hurt I place my unqualified apologies.

Adiyen

Kombur Vankeepuram Madhavan.

Please Help The Needy as it is Service To God.--- On Sat, 11/7/09, Nadadur Mathavan <nadadurmathavan wrote:

Nadadur Mathavan <nadadurmathavan[RamanujaMission] FW: unity amongst vaishnavitesprabhandham , Saturday, November 7, 2009, 1:24 AM

FWD..

parthibanragavachar iCC: ; srivaishnavasri@ .in; Ramanbil (AT) grouply (DOT) comvasan_chari_ hk (AT) rediffmail (DOT) comFri, 6 Nov 2009 11:06:24 +0000Re: unity amongst vaishnavites

Srimate Ramanujaya Namaha,Dear swamy,you have well said the need of the hour for unity among srivaishnavas.dasanOn Sat, 31 Oct 2009 20:22:42 +0530 wrote>Pranams,It is very disheartening to say that an article appeared in a tamil weekly namely junior vikatan regarding quarrels between vadakalai and thenkalai factions in the perumal koil of Kanchipuram (Sri Varadarajswamy temple). It is true that there are some ideological differences between these two factions in the practial application of Sri Ramanuja Siddhanta. Sri Manavala Mamunigal had high regards for Swami Desikan and Srimad PB Annankaracharya swami had written wonderful commentaries for Swami Desikan's work. Sri Varavara Muni's contribution to the Ubhayavedanta is unparallel. let us shed hatred . Let us work together for the development of Sri Vaishnavism with love and affection. let us not

hurt any individual or any subsection. We should learn how to respect our acharyas right from perumal to asmad acharyan and elders scholars acharyas from other folds too. If we dont treat a vaishnavite of vadakalai or thenkalai section, in a proper manner it would amount to violation of basic principles of Sri Ramanuja Siddhanta as propounded by Sri Ramanuja and as expounded by Swami Desika and Sri Manavala mamunigal with some variations. Let us do justice to our siddhanta, our preceptors, teachers of ubhaya vedanta. With folded hands I appeal to the reverred Acharyas of both the factions to advise the fellow vaishnavites to practice the religion first than finding fault with others for mundane reasons. Let us show affection to each other. The updesas of our great teachers have no room to fight with anyone or hate any sentinent being. No court can solve the issues relating to religion. Let us

forget the past happenings. Let us unite ourselves and show our solidarity for Sri vaishnavism in particular and sanatana dharma in general.As far I know, Swami Vedanta Desika was not just a teacher of ubahya vedanta for vadakalai faction alone. During his life time, there was no distinction at all. Swami Desika lived in Kanchi and preached and practiced Sri Ramanuja Siddhanta and the patasala run by him later identifed as Vadakalasalai and the school of thought run by Swami Pillai Lokacharya in Sri Rangam came to be known as Thenkalasalai. Because Kanchi and Sri Rangam are situated in north and South. The names of schools later known as vadakalai and thenkalai (for the sake of brevity). Let us not bring down the image of Swami Vedanta desika for petty politics or personal vested interests. Swami Desika was an eminent world teacher ; similarly Swami Pillai Lokaacharya was also a towering

personality and renowned jagatacharya. Our duty is to follow the foot steps of our immediate Acharya and also respect and love teachers of other branches of our Siddhanta.Let us shed hatred ; let us respect and adore each other With regardsR.Parthiban

November 7, 2009

Very true. It is indeed the need of the day. Sri Vaishnavites are already lesser in number and why this needless rancour. If unity is the call even in diverse culture, why can't we find it intraculture. Both the Acharyas are great in their own way and why don't sishyas of both the samparadayms have the spirit of tolerance towards the other. Pray Sriman Narayana bless us all to remain united in practising and furthering the cause of Ramanuja sidhantham.dAsanDorairajan R prabhandham ; From: nadadurmathavanDate: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 15:54:04 -0500[RamanujaMission] FW: unity amongst vaishnavites

FWD..

parthibanragavachariCC: ; srivaishnavasri (AT) (DOT) in; Ramanbil (AT) grouply (DOT) comFrom: vasan_chari_hk (AT) rediffmail (DOT) comDate: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 11:06:24 +0000Re: unity amongst vaishnavites

Srimate Ramanujaya Namaha,Dear swamy,you have well said the need of the hour for unity among srivaishnavas.dasanOn Sat, 31 Oct 2009 20:22:42 +0530 wrote>Pranams,It is very disheartening to say that an article appeared in a tamil weekly namely junior vikatan regarding quarrels between vadakalai and thenkalai factions in the perumal koil of Kanchipuram (Sri Varadarajswamy temple). It is true that there are some ideological differences between these two factions in the practial application of Sri Ramanuja Siddhanta. Sri Manavala Mamunigal had high regards for Swami Desikan and Srimad PB Annankaracharya swami had written wonderful commentaries for Swami Desikan's work. Sri Varavara Muni's contribution to the Ubhayavedanta is unparallel. let us shed hatred . Let us work together for the development of Sri Vaishnavism with love and affection. let us not hurt any individual or any subsection. We should learn how to respect our acharyas right from perumal to asmad acharyan and elders scholars acharyas from other folds too. If we dont treat a vaishnavite of vadakalai or thenkalai section, in a proper manner it would amount to violation of basic principles of Sri Ramanuja Siddhanta as propounded by Sri Ramanuja and as expounded by Swami Desika and Sri Manavala mamunigal with some variations. Let us do justice to our siddhanta, our preceptors, teachers of ubhaya vedanta. With folded hands I appeal to the reverred Acharyas of both the factions to advise the fellow vaishnavites to practice the religion first than finding fault with others for mundane reasons. Let us show affection to each other. The updesas of our great teachers have no room to fight with anyone or hate any sentinent being. No court can solve the issues relating to religion. Let us forget the past happenings. Let us unite ourselves and show our solidarity for Sri vaishnavism in particular and sanatana dharma in general.As far I know, Swami Vedanta Desika was not just a teacher of ubahya vedanta for vadakalai faction alone. During his life time, there was no distinction at all. Swami Desika lived in Kanchi and preached and practiced Sri Ramanuja Siddhanta and the patasala run by him later identifed as Vadakalasalai and the school of thought run by Swami Pillai Lokacharya in Sri Rangam came to be known as Thenkalasalai. Because Kanchi and Sri Rangam are situated in north and South. The names of schools later known as vadakalai and thenkalai (for the sake of brevity). Let us not bring down the image of Swami Vedanta desika for petty politics or personal vested interests. Swami Desika was an eminent world teacher ; similarly Swami Pillai Lokaacharya was also a towering personality and renowned jagatacharya. Our duty is to follow the foot steps of our immediate Acharya and also respect and love teachers of other branches of our Siddhanta.Let us shed hatred ; let us respect and adore each other With regardsR.Parthiban

Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more.

November 8, 2009

Dear all,Further to what Sri Vangeepuram madhavan has written I would like to share my views on this with you all!Of course with malice towards none!I am a student of Vaishnavism and it was not

long ago when one of foreign Research

scholars in the same field , while casually engaged in conversation told me

"I do not understand why such an intellectual society like Iyengars’

should waste their talent in talking about kalai differences amongst themselves

which reminds me of the divisions in Christianity-Roman Catholisism and

Protestantism .In both the cases what started as a doctrinal differences

hardened into a serious rift by adding social differences into

themselves".

Everyone agrees that the differences are

doctrinal and out of 18 many are superficial but what started -may be only a

few centuries ago - but are deep- rooted now at least in the minds of yester

generations as present generation is neither appraised of our rich and hoary

tradition nor is worried to know what it is. It is a pity no Iyengar family, I

should say, is now without an alliance from other community or other religion -

thanks to the globalization- at least at a distant cousin level -some with the

added qualification of blessed with the Grace of Acharyans in the invitation

level -when we have such an in fight! I

am reminded of a remark by one of my elderly friends in Mumbai who once said

"My daughter can marry anyone of her choice but if it is through

horoscopes tallying I seek only Vadakalai alliances" and I asked him what if her choice is Christian or Muslim he had no answer! This obviously shows the

shallowness in our knowledge and attachment to our Sampradhaya.

Some of the personal experiences I had in

recent years I want to share with you all.

I had been to Triplicane Sri Parthasarathy

temple on the Chariot day and was standing in a corner. On seeing my yellow

srichurnam (I always adore yellow in preference to the other colour) one

Thenkalai gentleman approached me and told "Swamin, Please stand apart

-now koshti is going to begin" obviously implying that Vadakalais have no

role to play! Perhaps he did not know that my knowledge of Prabhandam is limited

to only one - Thondaradippodi Azhwar's Pachai Mamalai pol Meni" thanks to

oft repeated hearing of the song rendered by TMS in a film!

When I had been to Swamy Varadharaja Perumal

temple for the last THEPPAM I saw two batches of Vaishnavites in our

sampradhaya attire and when my wife enquired me who were they ,I told her as if

I know fully well "One is Veda Parayana Koshti and the other should be

Prabhanda Koshti " pat came a remark from a youngster by my side "No, Today there cannot be any Prabhandam

chanting inside the temple. We have stay already from the court" -beaming with

enthusiasm I could see the full accomplishment in his face!- as if his

ancestors have achieved something which

is unachievable!

The irony here is that when I ,a total novice

in the sampradhaya, is denied a place in Triplicane koshti my Professor who is

well known in the Vaishnavite circle and who can chant all 4000 prabhandams

with ease( that too with meanings) has been denied a place in koshti in

Thiruvallur Temple a Vadakalai area.

My heart used to ache on seeing the condition

of Swami Desikan sannathis in Sri Perambadur where he is only a Venkatanathan

-a huge wooden roller -used as the base for palanquin is always blocking the

entrance so that unless one is VERY keen he cannot get the darshan. But

Thenkalaiyars are not the only one to be blamed .Look at the pathetic condition

of Swami Manavala Mamunigal in Thiruvahidrapuram when Lord Devanathan is having

the Purappadu and the sannathi of Manavala Mamunigal is covered with a

screen!-on the road any bystander be a Muslims or a Christians can have a

casual look at the Perumal but not the Acharyan who is venerated highly by the

Thenkalai sect.

One lady who is very well versed in Desika

stotrams and who is coaching youngsters in that line was complaining to me that

when she was arranging inside the

premises of Sri Parthasarathy temple –not very near sannathi but in a

corner near the entrance one SRIVAISHNAVA came and informed her “Do not

chant Venkatanatha’s stotrams inside

this temple –we do not allow it Have it outside in the common area “ We are

sure that the Lord was deprived of the pleasant time of hearing Desika’s lucid

songs thanks to one of His self –appointed guardian of Thenkalali sampradaya!

The pity is while worshipping our Lord and

Thaayaar Swami Desikan cannot be ignored as he has rendered scores of sthuthis

both in Sanskrit and Tamil whereas his counterparts in the other sect-his

contemporarians like great Acharyan Pillai Lokacharyar and his scholar brother

Alagiya Manavala Perumal Nayanar have limited themselves to writing Rahasya

granthams only. When it is said that Swami Alavandar’s Chatu sloki and Stotra

Rathnam are the first ever sthuthi slokas on Lord and His consort we have next

to them the sthavams of Koorathazhwan and his illustrious son Parasara Bhattar and

after that we are left with Swami Desikan’s granthams only.With all this

glory,Swami Desikan who had composed one thousand hymns on Lord Sri Ranganatha of SriRangam has no place in

the sathas to worship the Lord on festival days. More pitiable is the condition

of his sannathi in the temple which is virtually swept to a corner!

Hitherto what has been written is only the

tip of the ice-berg but many such incidents and examples can be quoted to

describe our strange ways of following the Sampradaya.

Of course what has been told up to now is the

unpleasant scenes and acts enacted by not-so-rich Vaishnavites but the rich

Vaishnavites in the past have been resorting to Courts to settle their scores. Believe

it or not most of the disputed rituals in our Vaishnavite temples were

settled and solutions obtained not thru

great Acharyans but through the Christian Judges of British Empire who had no

access to the temples! Perhaps the earliest recorded dispute is dated 2nd

September 1754 when the then Governor passed an order reconciling the interests

of the two kalais by assigning each party a shrine and prohibiting each from interfering with the other. That is

how Thulasinga Perumal temple belonged to Vadakalai and Vekatakrishnaswami

became the abode for Thenkalais! Of course the appeals and counter appeals on

this issue continued till April 1795.

This was closely followed by another dispute

in 1803 where there was a clash between the two kalais in Srirangam temple and

one Ranga Iyengar who put up a Vadakalai namam over the entrance of Nathamuni

shrine was fined Rs 1000/ in AD 1863!( Imagine the value of money as on date

and if there is any descendant who is eligible for the inheritance of his

property has lost!) and the disposing authority’s comments are note-worthy.

“The act in the place in which it was done precisely

resembles the act of a zealous Protestant who should be rash or wicked enough

to scroll “ no popery” on the Roman catholic Church situate in the midst of the

excitable and not highly instructed population of an Irish country” (V N Hari

Rao “History of Trichinopoly and Srirangam temple” ) - a very nice encomium to our community which

is classified as the most forward community.

There are plethora of cases pending in

Kancheepuram,Chengalpet,Chennai High Court and even in Supreme court regarding

Varadaraja temple of Kanchipuram as early as from 1865 A D ranging from the “Introduction “ of Ramanuja

Dayapatram taniyan as against Srisaila Dayapatram down to the notorious Namam

dispute on the face of the temple elephant. Still many cases remain in courts

pending disposal.

I have just given a birds-eye view of the

entire scenario and not an in-depth study of the issues involving the cold war

between the two sects.

This episode comes to

an end with a very interesting observation by His Holiness

44th

Pontiff of Ahobila Mutt when he was approached by some prominent Sri

Vaishnava stalwarts

to find a solution to this irritating problem by adopting a

common symbol of À instead of our present Y or U as a

first step the

Azhagiya Singar

in his own inimitable style said “This will give raise to a third

sect only

and will never solve the problem!”

“HE ALONE

IS A TRUE VAISHNAVITE WHO ON SEEING OTHER’S SUFFERINGS

SYMPATHISES”-

NANJEEYAR

T. K.

PARTHASARATHY

CHENNAI-17

T K Parthasarathy

Chennai CC: oppiliappan ; tiruvenkatam ; ; Srisathyanarayanaperumal ; iyengarsunited ; lordsrinivasa; thiruvarangam ; alagappankannan; sundha007; narayanan.r; rnarayanan1; madhavan48; rama_partha; kinchitkaram; varadhansrirangam; sadayan; shreyass2000; sln.bahrain; rgsrinivasanFrom: rammadhavDate: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 22:09:44 -0800 Re: [RamanujaMission] FW: unity amongst vaishnavites

SRI : ||

Hare Krishna.

PraNAms to all.

A Very Welcome Subject and we should understand the need of Unity.

Despite fervent appeals from very many people, interested in the protection, preservation and promotion of The Great Ramanuja SiddhAntham , for the Unity and total elimination of differentiation of Vadakalai & Thenkalai sects , the problem persists with narrow outlooks, which affects our community as a whole.The differences are more in the form of interpretation, while the fact remains that we all accept Swami Ramanuja as The Undisputed Head of all VisishtAdhavaithees and claim that any BhAgavathA who surrenders to Sriman Narayana is most eligible for our respects and reverance.

It is due to some people who have not been properly lead into The Great Path laid by Swami Ramanuja , who still cling to The Kalai Culture, damaging the very roots of Sri Vaishnavism.

Our only aim should be Total Surrender to The Lord Sriman Narayana, by serving His BhakthAs. Let us all unite and see that the differences in the name of the subsects be eliminated by proper education of the Basic Roots of our Sat SampradAyam established by Swami Ramanuja.

This will immensely help our future generations not to go astray and follow our tradtions & faith with ease & dignity.

No heartburn intended & if any one is hurt I place my unqualified apologies.

Adiyen

Kombur Vankeepuram Madhavan.

Please Help The Needy as it is Service To God.--- On Sat, 11/7/09, Nadadur Mathavan <nadadurmathavan (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

Nadadur Mathavan <nadadurmathavan (AT) msn (DOT) com>[RamanujaMission] FW: unity amongst vaishnavitesprabhandham , Saturday, November 7, 2009, 1:24 AM

FWD..

parthibanragavachar iCC: ; srivaishnavasri@ .in; Ramanbil (AT) grouply (DOT) comvasan_chari_ hk (AT) rediffmail (DOT) comFri, 6 Nov 2009 11:06:24 +0000Re: unity amongst vaishnavites

Srimate Ramanujaya Namaha,Dear swamy,you have well said the need of the hour for unity among srivaishnavas.dasanOn Sat, 31 Oct 2009 20:22:42 +0530 wrote>Pranams,It is very disheartening to say that an article appeared in a tamil weekly namely junior vikatan regarding quarrels between vadakalai and thenkalai factions in the perumal koil of Kanchipuram (Sri Varadarajswamy temple). It is true that there are some ideological differences between these two factions in the practial application of Sri Ramanuja Siddhanta. Sri Manavala Mamunigal had high regards for Swami Desikan and Srimad PB Annankaracharya swami had written wonderful commentaries for Swami Desikan's work. Sri Varavara Muni's contribution to the Ubhayavedanta is unparallel. let us shed hatred . Let us work together for the development of Sri Vaishnavism with love and affection. let us not

hurt any individual or any subsection. We should learn how to respect our acharyas right from perumal to asmad acharyan and elders scholars acharyas from other folds too. If we dont treat a vaishnavite of vadakalai or thenkalai section, in a proper manner it would amount to violation of basic principles of Sri Ramanuja Siddhanta as propounded by Sri Ramanuja and as expounded by Swami Desika and Sri Manavala mamunigal with some variations. Let us do justice to our siddhanta, our preceptors, teachers of ubhaya vedanta. With folded hands I appeal to the reverred Acharyas of both the factions to advise the fellow vaishnavites to practice the religion first than finding fault with others for mundane reasons. Let us show affection to each other. The updesas of our great teachers have no room to fight with anyone or hate any sentinent being. No court can solve the issues relating to religion. Let us

forget the past happenings. Let us unite ourselves and show our solidarity for Sri vaishnavism in particular and sanatana dharma in general.As far I know, Swami Vedanta Desika was not just a teacher of ubahya vedanta for vadakalai faction alone. During his life time, there was no distinction at all. Swami Desika lived in Kanchi and preached and practiced Sri Ramanuja Siddhanta and the patasala run by him later identifed as Vadakalasalai and the school of thought run by Swami Pillai Lokacharya in Sri Rangam came to be known as Thenkalasalai. Because Kanchi and Sri Rangam are situated in north and South. The names of schools later known as vadakalai and thenkalai (for the sake of brevity). Let us not bring down the image of Swami Vedanta desika for petty politics or personal vested interests. Swami Desika was an eminent world teacher ; similarly Swami Pillai Lokaacharya was also a towering

personality and renowned jagatacharya. Our duty is to follow the foot steps of our immediate Acharya and also respect and love teachers of other branches of our Siddhanta.Let us shed hatred ; let us respect and adore each other With regardsR.Parthiban

New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more.

November 14, 2009

This is one of the best article I have come across ever since I logged in to .It would only be appropriate if we can become a unified force with blessings from Acharayas of both sects with an objective to have a common platform to recite Shri Ramanujam and Swami Desikan stotras.I am sure by this time all those who would have read the mail from Shri Vangeepuram Madhavan and Shri T Parthasarathy would have decided to contribute positively for the betterment of future.Regards and Pranam to allcharanyan--- On Sun, 11/8/09, THILLAISTHANAM PARTHASARATHY <t_kparthasarathy wrote:THILLAISTHANAM PARTHASARATHY

<t_kparthasarathyRE: Re: [RamanujaMission] FW: unity amongst vaishnavites"divya desam chennai" , Cc: oppiliappan , tiruvenkatam , srisathyanarayanaperumal , iyengarsunited , lordsrinivasa, thiruvarangam , alagappankannan, sundha007, narayanan.r, rnarayanan1, madhavan48, rama_partha, kinchitkaram, varadhansrirangam, sadayan, shreyass2000, sln.bahrain, rgsrinivasanDate: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 2:51 PM

Dear all,Further to what Sri Vangeepuram madhavan has written I would like to share my views on this with you all!Of course with malice towards none!I am a student of Vaishnavism and it was not

long ago when one of foreign Research

scholars in the same field , while casually engaged in conversation told me

"I do not understand why such an intellectual society like Iyengarsâ€™

should waste their talent in talking about kalai differences amongst themselves

which reminds me of the divisions in Christianity- Roman Catholisism and

Protestantism .In both the cases what started as a doctrinal differences

hardened into a serious rift by adding social differences into

themselves". Everyone agrees that the differences are

doctrinal and out of 18 many are superficial but what started -may be only a

few centuries ago - but are deep- rooted now at least in the minds of yester

generations as present generation is neither appraised of our rich and hoary

tradition nor is worried to know what it is. It is a pity no Iyengar family, I

should say, is now without an alliance from other community or other religion -

thanks to the globalization- at least at a distant cousin level -some with the

added qualification of blessed with the Grace of Acharyans in the invitation

level -when we have such an in fight! I

am reminded of a remark by one of my elderly friends in Mumbai who once said

"My daughter can marry anyone of her choice but if it is through

horoscopes tallying I seek only Vadakalai alliances" and I asked him what if her choice is Christian or Muslim he had no answer! This obviously shows the

shallowness in our knowledge and attachment to our Sampradhaya. Some of the personal experiences I had in

recent years I want to share with you all. I had been to Triplicane Sri Parthasarathy

temple on the Chariot day and was standing in a corner. On seeing my yellow

srichurnam (I always adore yellow in preference to the other colour) one

Thenkalai gentleman approached me and told "Swamin, Please stand apart

-now koshti is going to begin" obviously implying that Vadakalais have no

role to play! Perhaps he did not know that my knowledge of Prabhandam is limited

to only one - Thondaradippodi Azhwar's Pachai Mamalai pol Meni" thanks to

oft repeated hearing of the song rendered by TMS in a film! When I had been to Swamy Varadharaja Perumal

temple for the last THEPPAM I saw two batches of Vaishnavites in our

sampradhaya attire and when my wife enquired me who were they ,I told her as if

I know fully well "One is Veda Parayana Koshti and the other should be

Prabhanda Koshti " pat came a remark from a youngster by my side "No, Today there cannot be any Prabhandam

chanting inside the temple. We have stay already from the court" -beaming with

enthusiasm I could see the full accomplishment in his face!- as if his

ancestors have achieved something which

is unachievable! The irony here is that when I ,a total novice

in the sampradhaya, is denied a place in Triplicane koshti my Professor who is

well known in the Vaishnavite circle and who can chant all 4000 prabhandams

with ease( that too with meanings) has been denied a place in koshti in

Thiruvallur Temple a Vadakalai area. My heart used to ache on seeing the condition