champion of champions 4

November 9, 2007

Post 4

Dear sri vaishNava perunthagaiyeer,

We saw how kaartha veerya arjunan defeated raavaNa simply. Before proceeding further, I will add my points by way of answering points by Sriman Srinivasan. That mail is forwarded to the lists separately with a request to moderators to allow it in the lists as it really adds value to the topic on hand.

Why I chose to give my points - is - I thought the questions raised by sriman Srinivasan Sowmya naraayaNan are very very valid, relevant and logical and more thought provoking. [i hope the moderator swamins will not treat this as a discussion. And I request them to treat this as part of my article or points of elaboration to my article].

Srinivasan writes --

Respectful Swamin, Very revealing, enjoyable and logical, indeed! But adiyEn has to submit a point, which may or may not be important.

Between the time when Sri Dasaratha Rama humiliated Sri Parasurama and His encountering Ravana, don't you think that as Sri Rama grown in strength & power, Ravana would have multiplied in his strength & capability with the varams from other devatas including Siva?

MGV adds – how dhasaratha raama added his prowess by maturing in age and experience, besides getting the asthrams and sasthrams and bows from sage agasthya, raavaNa would also added to his strength. "Fully logical point and acceptable".

Only thing is Vaalmeeki does not add any thing like that, and has not left room for our deduction also – as how raama adds to his – that can be read and as well inferred easily. Likewise raavaNa's – no room given by vaalmeeki – as far as I have understood.

Other scholars are welcomed to add value and change my understanding.

Further, raavaNa was living even before dhasaratha got married to kousalya. In fact raavaNa knew that the son born to ikshvaaku vamsa dhasaratha's son would kill him. That was conveyed to him by naaradha. And as such raavaNa attempted to separate kousalya and dhasaratha from getting married.

[That is a separate story and I already wrote a small article on that earlier in the lists – the source is some 'puraaNam' – I am not able to really lay hands on that reference].

That means raavaNa lived for more than those 60000 years of dhasaratha.

Further for getting his varams – boons – he did thapas for more than 10000 years [this is as per padma puraanam, the gist of which is available in internet and downloaded and read by me – I can upload that as a file if somebody desires so].

So when compared to those 70000 years plus – this span of 38 or 42 [initial 12 or 16 + 12 + 14] years of raama during which raavaNa would have added to his strength -- is negligible. But for consideration as stated by Swamin - a definite YES.

Srinivasan writes further -- The story of Vaali about his defeating Ravana might have happened years ago. After that event, Ravana could have gained in strength.

MGV adds – Actually when supreme lord vishNu decided to come down as dhasaratha puthra in that raama avathaaram – then only all dhEvathaas by way of getting associated in that 'raavaNa elimination kaaryam' of their supreme lord vishNu, came down to earth, as vaali, sugreevan et al. See sargam 15 baala kaaNdam.

So their age again has to be around that 38 or 42 as stated. So it is not 'long ago' when compared to age of raavaNan.

So the amount of actual gaining experience and expertise, speaking technically - yes - when compared to vaali - by raavaNa - will again be very small.

Further all these vaanaraas – are basically an amsam – or part of the grand dhEvaas – each is a champion on his own – like

soorya's amsam / son in and as sugreeva,

indra's son / amsam in and as vaali

vaayu's son / amsam – in and as hanumaan etc.

So really any gain is to be achieved be these dhEvaas? I think it is only an opportunity to them to exhibit their in born capacity in front of raavaNa? Or an indicator of things to come for raavaNa as in the case of kaartha – upamaanam in previous post.

Srinivasan writes further -- The estimate of Sugriva of Ravana's strength cannot also be ignored as he would have assessed it correctly. That is the reason for his testing Sri Rama's strength.

MGV adds – while the first half of the above paragraph is acceptable and agreeable – the second part has to be slightly discounted.

Yes. Sugreeva would have assessed raavaNa correctly. For he has traveled quite a bit in the world – that he explains and exhibits before raama - when raama asked the question – how you know so much geography – about the different hills, forests, rivers, caves, etc – with that naturally sugreeva would know about raavaNa and his physical mite.

Second half – sugreeva testing of raama's strength – that is more from 'vaali angle' and not 'raavaNa'. For he knows raavaNa is already defeated by vaali – so he knows mite of raavaNa as well as vaali and also who is superior.

Srinivasan adds further -- Another point would be, a person who is prepared to commit a worst crime of abducting another's wife, he would not do it unless he has armed himself with all the strength & powers from various sources. This might have happened a long period after his defeat at the hands of Kaarthaveerya & Vali.

MGV adds: The time factor – as stated above.

As already stated raavaNa is puffed up because his boons – of not to be killed by any of these – the likes of kaartha veerya – who is a super kshathriya [kshathriya is also a human] demi humans like pisaasa etc and other dhEvaas, dhaanavaas, yakshaas, and powerful animals like lion etc.

Of course why parasuraama left out raavaNa is a question – one possible answer is – raavaNa is basically a braahmaNan, by character only is a raakshasa. Further parasu raama targeted only kshathriyaas and not braahmaNaas [turned into raakshasaas].

These small defeats – from raavaNa's angle - is not defeat at all – for his target was to enjoy raama's wife seethaa and her beauty – and not even raama, to be defeated – for he already been defeated in that 'bow lifting event' also in mithila – one more defeat of raavaNa left out – in previous post. [Thanks to sri srinivasan - this came out].

That 'lust' for a lady – that too - another man's wife - all because of the 'fanning' done by his sister – for she was so lustful in raama – his physical beauty.

So the physical beauty of 'a man' raama and 'his wife' seethaa, are the main reasons for destruction of raavaNa and his team in sreemadh raamaayaNam

– then is that raama not the champion of champions – from another angle – physical beauty besides valor?

Dhasan

Vasudevan m.g.-- Vasudevan MG