Thirumangai AzhwAr's ThirunedunthANdakam- 14th verse- Parakalanayaki admires

[Guest guest]

SrI:

 

Srinath swami :

 

Swamy Desikan came long after Kaliyan and even in one's wildest

imagination there is no question of Kaliyan seeing Swamy Desikan

through any of his pasurams. Even Swamy Desikan would not admire your

comments here.

 

-------

 

 

There is no apacharam here done to Azhwar. Infact it only says

valarthathanAl payan petrren. Madhavakkannam swami, as usual, has come

with beautiful explanations and reasoning for 'why praise a sishya?'.

It is prAmanika explanation which is accepted by all acharyas not

merely Abhinava Desikan!

 

Further, in my humble opinion, it is an apacharam to say kaliyan cant

forsee Swami Desikan. When even Bhagavatham could predict Nammalwar's

avatharam (Tamaraparani nadhee yatra) Kaliyan - the great - who for us

is much more greater than Rishis- can very much predict Swami Desikan.

So everything wrote by Madhavakannan swami is " Suasthitham " .

 

Dasan,

 

Aravindalochanadaasaanudasan.

[Guest guest]

sRE:

 

I am just surprised to see the kind of exchanges here.

 

I had the chance to download bot P.B.A swAmi's commentry

on thiru_nedunthAndagam and also Puttur swAmi's explanation(vivaranam)

on parama karunikarAna periya vAchAn pillai commentry(vyAkyAnam) of

thiru_nedunthAndagam.

 

From the vyAkyAnam and vivaranam one can see an aidhihyam(reference to

an incidence).. swami periya nambi did a thanda samarpanam once when

he saw sree bashyakarar going to cauveri for neeratam along with his

sishyas...

(Periya nambi sees the strength and number of sishya goshti(sishya

smruddhi) of sri bashyakArar and is reminded of alavandar and his

sishya smrudhi instantaneoulsy..

 

sree bAshyakArA did not stop periya nambi when periya nambi did this

thanda samarpanam.. sre bashyakara did not stop because had he

attempted to stop it would have meant he indeed acknowledged periya

nambi's thanda samarpanam.

 

While one can analyse what could be the real reason for periya nambi

to do and why sri bashyakara did not stop him it could grow in to

another post(may be chain of posts)let me not do that.

 

BUT at the same time there is a very important thing to be mentioned

here KAY KOOPI VANAGINALAEY means merely with folded hands she(para

kAla nAyaki) and praised.

 

First point

 

Sri Madhava kannan says the following

 

Refer Oppiliappan/message/15907

>>

Kaikooppi – folded her hands (as if this has helped her significantly)

reverently

vaNanginAL – she paid her namaskaram.

yE- this is also a marvel… and wonder

>>

 

Also in the same post sri madhava kannan mentions

>>>

Here it can also be mentioned abot Swamy Desikan refrring himself to

the parrot that was groomed by his maternal uncle and acharyan Swami

appuLLAr. Perhaps Parakala naayaki sees Swamy Desikan here and pays

her obeisance to Vedantha acharyan

>>

 

While some/many people must be really feeling happy that sri madhava

kannan also mentions the vedantha-acharyan thirunamam for swamid

desikan there seems to some mis-understanding of the sri mAdhava

kannan's post.

 

when sri madhava kannan says " swamy Desikan here and pays her

obeisance to Vedantha acharyan " he merely means it is paraspara

acknowledgement of a sri-vaishnava and a respect to ones pAndithyam

sri-vaishnavathvam etc and not " sevikardhu " which can be taken as an

offense obviously.

 

But the reaction to sri madhava kannan's post is very natural and

justifiable because by following sri periya vachan pillais commentry

and the aidhihyam mentioned in that it means kay koopi vanangudhal

means kay koopi thandam samarpithal(falling at feet as in

sevikardhu)though the padha vyAkyAnam doesnt directly mention it.First

it says kay koopi vanaginal(anjaliyum seydhu namaskarithal)

 

However it further says vananginA " lay " stressing on " ley " (mudhalil

kay koopinal. kili athay poruthu kondavudan kAlil vizhundhAl)

 

(On a different note the same mindset can also be seen while

commenting on " paraspara hitaishinaam parisareshu maam varthaya " it

was interpreted as doing people doing " thandam samarpithal to each

other... " .Though While all sri-vaishnavas do it but the word paraspara

hitaishinaam parisareshu maam varthaya " doesnt mean that)

 

Extrapolation and stretching of meanings and " adding more " is mere

anubhavam none of us have the right to question our pOrvAchAryas

intention or vyAkyAnam even though a direct meaning and the commentry

seem to be slightly different.

 

This is exactly called as " anubhavam " . As sri aravindalochanan said as

long as the adnubhavam is not sAsthra virodham or poorvacharya

abavAdham it is okay to take them all with a pinch of salt.

 

>>

 

Second point

 

Sri madhava kannan said in the post that

Oppiliappan/message/15918

 

>>

PoigaiAzhwAr was the first AzhwAr avathaaram (Aippasi ThiruvONam) >>

and Swami Desika was last AchArya avathaaram (Puraataasi ThiruvONam).

 

If we count from Aippasi, Purattaasi is the last month. This shows

that it is only good that is going to happen to all because of them

" eppaalaikkum SemaathhE " ThiruvONam).

 

>>

 

I also dont see any issues here because for some/many swami desikan is

an achArya ONLY in sri-bAshya paramparai.

 

But for others who donot fall in the above one portion of sri

bashyakarar's sampradhAyam swAmi desikan is a porvachArya for almost

everything and comes in both samAsrayanam and kalakshepa paramparai.

 

(for ahobila mutt sishyas swami desikan is not in samasrayana acharya

paramparai though).

 

So when sri madhava kannan says the first aazhwar is poigai and the

last acharya is swami desikan it is perfect because he considers the

fact that sri manavala mamunigal is not samasrayana or kalakshepa

acharya for him and people like him.(This is not an apachAram for

swami mana-vaala mamunigal)

 

When some says Swami manavala mamuni is one of the most revered

achArya of sri vaishnava sampradhaya like swami desikan it DOESNT mean

swami manavAla comes in achArya lineage/paramparai for samasrayanama

kalakshepam etc for all.

 

The same thing could be applied BUT only partially for swAmi desikan

as swAmi desikan falls in sree bashya kalakshepa achArya paramparai

FOR ALL sri-vaishnavas.

 

So whatever opposition for sri madhava kananns post is what I

sincerely hope not the reason.

 

dAsanu dAsan

venkatrAghava dAsan

[Guest guest]

sRE:

 

I am just surprised to see the kind of exchanges here.

 

I had the chance to download bot P.B.A swAmi's commentry

on thiru_nedunthAndagam and also Puttur swAmi's explanation(vivaranam)

on parama karunikarAna periya vAchAn pillai commentry(vyAkyAnam) of

thiru_nedunthAndagam.

 

From the vyAkyAnam and vivaranam one can see an aidhihyam(reference to

an incidence).. swami periya nambi did a thanda samarpanam once when

he saw sree bashyakarar going to cauveri for neeratam along with his

sishyas...

(Periya nambi sees the strength and number of sishya goshti(sishya

smruddhi) of sri bashyakArar and is reminded of alavandar and his

sishya smrudhi instantaneoulsy..

 

sree bAshyakArA did not stop periya nambi when periya nambi did this

thanda samarpanam.. sre bashyakara did not stop because had he

attempted to stop it would have meant he indeed acknowledged periya

nambi's thanda samarpanam.

 

While one can analyse what could be the real reason for periya nambi

to do and why sri bashyakara did not stop him it could grow in to

another post(may be chain of posts)let me not do that.

 

BUT at the same time there is a very important thing to be mentioned

here KAY KOOPI VANAGINALAEY means merely with folded hands she(para

kAla nAyaki) and praised.

 

First point

 

Sri Madhava kannan says the following

 

Refer Oppiliappan/message/15907

>>

Kaikooppi – folded her hands (as if this has helped her significantly)

reverently

vaNanginAL – she paid her namaskaram.

yE- this is also a marvel… and wonder

>>

 

Also in the same post sri madhava kannan mentions

>>>

Here it can also be mentioned abot Swamy Desikan refrring himself to

the parrot that was groomed by his maternal uncle and acharyan Swami

appuLLAr. Perhaps Parakala naayaki sees Swamy Desikan here and pays

her obeisance to Vedantha acharyan

>>

 

While some/many people must be really feeling happy that sri madhava

kannan also mentions the vedantha-acharyan thirunamam for swamid

desikan there seems to some mis-understanding of the sri mAdhava

kannan's post.

 

when sri madhava kannan says " swamy Desikan here and pays her

obeisance to Vedantha acharyan " he merely means it is paraspara

acknowledgement of a sri-vaishnava and a respect to ones pAndithyam

sri-vaishnavathvam etc and not " sevikardhu " which can be taken as an

offense obviously.

 

But the reaction to sri madhava kannan's post is very natural and

justifiable because by following sri periya vachan pillais commentry

and the aidhihyam mentioned in that it means kay koopi vanangudhal

means kay koopi thandam samarpithal(falling at feet as in

sevikardhu)though the padha vyAkyAnam doesnt directly mention it.First

it says kay koopi vanaginal(anjaliyum seydhu namaskarithal)

 

However it further says vananginA " lay " stressing on " ley " (mudhalil

kay koopinal. kili athay poruthu kondavudan kAlil vizhundhAl)

 

(On a different note the same mindset can also be seen while

commenting on " paraspara hitaishinaam parisareshu maam varthaya " it

was interpreted as doing people doing " thandam samarpithal to each

other... " .Though While all sri-vaishnavas do it but the word paraspara

hitaishinaam parisareshu maam varthaya " doesnt mean that)

 

Extrapolation and stretching of meanings and " adding more " is mere

anubhavam none of us have the right to question our pOrvAchAryas

intention or vyAkyAnam even though a direct meaning and the commentry

seem to be slightly different.

 

This is exactly called as " anubhavam " . As sri aravindalochanan said as

long as the adnubhavam is not sAsthra virodham or poorvacharya

abavAdham it is okay to take them all with a pinch of salt.

 

>>

 

Second point

 

Sri madhava kannan said in the post that

Oppiliappan/message/15918

 

>>

PoigaiAzhwAr was the first AzhwAr avathaaram (Aippasi ThiruvONam) >>

and Swami Desika was last AchArya avathaaram (Puraataasi ThiruvONam).

 

If we count from Aippasi, Purattaasi is the last month. This shows

that it is only good that is going to happen to all because of them

" eppaalaikkum SemaathhE " ThiruvONam).

 

>>

 

I also dont see any issues here because for some/many swami desikan is

an achArya ONLY in sri-bAshya paramparai.

 

But for others who donot fall in the above one portion of sri

bashyakarar's sampradhAyam swAmi desikan is a porvachArya for almost

everything and comes in both samAsrayanam and kalakshepa paramparai.

 

(for ahobila mutt sishyas swami desikan is not in samasrayana acharya

paramparai though).

 

So when sri madhava kannan says the first aazhwar is poigai and the

last acharya is swami desikan it is perfect because he considers the

fact that sri manavala mamunigal is not samasrayana or kalakshepa

acharya for him and people like him.(This is not an apachAram for

swami mana-vaala mamunigal)

 

When some says Swami manavala mamuni is one of the most revered

achArya of sri vaishnava sampradhaya like swami desikan it DOESNT mean

swami manavAla comes in achArya lineage/paramparai for samasrayanama

kalakshepam etc for all.

 

The same thing could be applied BUT only partially for swAmi desikan

as swAmi desikan falls in sree bashya kalakshepa achArya paramparai

FOR ALL sri-vaishnavas.

 

So whatever opposition we see for sri madhava kananns post.. I

sincerely hope is not is what I want to see as a reason.

 

dAsanu dAsan

venkatrAghava dAsan