Guest guest Posted August 29, 2007 Report Share Posted August 29, 2007 Dear friends:Please see the posting by Vasudevan VK (vasuchak) forwarding the mail from sarojram18 sarojram18 appearing in today's messages of "Sri Ranga Sri". (Reproduced at the end of this message for ready reference) It will be clear therefrom that "MErO: DakshiNE PaarsvE" is correct whatever the latitude or longitude.The practice of calling our location as "PaschimE dik BhagE" seems to be faulty. "Bhaarta Varsha" and "Bharata: khaNDa" are considered to be "PuNya Bhoomi" because so many evolved souls who realized Bhagavaan were born and lived there. So, it is customary in recognition of this, to recite "Bhaarta Varsha" and "Bharata: khaNDa" in our Sankalpams, irrespective of where we live - not that other "Varshas" and "Dweepas" do not exist or not important in the regions south of Meru. Scholars in the group may address this issue and provide us with PramaaNams to help us understand the correct position.DasohamAnbil Ramaswamy======================================================================= ----- Forwarded Message ----sarojram18 <sarojram18desikasampradaya Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:31:55 AM Yadhavabhyudhya-Part 3 Story of Krishna- Part3 Chapter 18- Travellogue ! Krishna traveled from Indraloka to Dvaraka with Sathyabhama and showed her the places they were crossing explaining about them.This reminds one of the immortal kavya Megha dhutha of kalidasa. He starts by showing her the mount Meru in the north above the earth, on the way from Devaloka. nisargakaLyANathayA pradheeptham sarvottharam thatthvam ivaikam Adhyam amum priye noonam athandhrithAni jyotheemshi bhakthyA pariyanthi ajasram Tn he mount Meru is compared to the Lord who is the supreme reality, sarvottharam thatthvam, and possesses infinitely auspicious qualities. The mount Meru is situated in the north of all , sarvottharam, always auspicious, nisarga kalyANatha being made of gold. The heavenly ; luminous bodies like the Sun and the Moon go round it, always, deligently, athandhritham pariyanthi ajasram as though with devotion, as the nithya sooris, the eternal souls always go round the Lord with devotion. The sky with the stars shone as the canopy of pearls and the Meru in the centre was being showered by the water of the Ganges from heaven, like king having abhisheka performed to him and the luminous bodies going round were doing mangAlarathi as it were. The Meru abounds in caves of precious gems that put to shame those in the palaces of the dhikpalakas. Krishna showed to Bhama how the earth itself looked like a lotus and the Meru was like the centre of the flower. The earth itself revolving like a chakra of the Lord. Next Krishna describes the three regions of the earth, namely, IlAvrthavarsha, Harivarsha and Kimpurushavarsha. Garuda was flying over the Harivarsha, that is the modern Arabia which is situated to the south of IlAvrtha, Tibet and was nearing the Kimpurushavatrsha that is the slopes of Himalayas, which was inhabited by the mkimpurushas and kinnaras. The former have horse-face and the latter are musicians of celestial heritage. Garuda was flying high and low like a jet plane to show the places below and when he ascends above the clouds looked like the fans for the divine couple as they moved fast. The movement of Garuda was so smooth that the earth and the mountains with forests seem to come near them and recede as when we travel in a vehicle with high speed. They were approaching Mount Kailas and Krishna compared it to the clouds of autumn which are white in colour and imagines that it is the heap of the sacred ash fallen from the body of Siva who dances in the pradhoshakala. The place of Kubera is also situated there and shine as though white-washed by the reflection of the snow- clad mountain peaks and it is enhanced by the waves of the Ganges flowing from the head of Siva when he shakes his head during his dance. Desika here alludes to the incident of Ravana moving the kailasa mountain. udhagravajravraNaka rkaSAnAm paryApthasAreNa bhujArgaLAnAm anenavikhyApitha vikramamthath rakshah pur ramasaravyam Aseeth Kailasa mountain proclaimed the fame of Ravana who moved it with his twenty arms hardened by the blow of Vajra and who later fell for the arrow of Rama. By this sloka the strength of Ravana ,the greatness of Kailasa, which he could not move though tried because his hands were caught under it due to Siva pressing his big toe and also the glory of Rama who could vanquish such a valiant hero, are all brought out. Krishna compared the mountain to Balarama by saying that it had dark middle due to the trees and white in the upper part and red at places due to the red sand of the mountain like Balarama who used to wear dark garment with a white body and his eyes red with wine. The next sloka is full of poetic beauty. niSamya dhivyadhrumasambhav AnAm noonam ravam noopuramanjareeNAm uddeeyamANAh pratyanthi amee thvAm manjusvarAh mAnasa hamsadhArAh The sound made by the cluster of flowers of the parijatha resembled the sound of the swans of the mAnaSA lake in Kailas and so the swans come in front as though honouring them. Next they neared the city of SoNithapura where the asuras like Hiranayakasipu were ruling and which was at that time reigned by BaNAsura, the son of Bali, who pleased Siva by playing mrdhanga with his 1000 arms. Then Krishna pointed out the krouncha mountain in which Parasurama made a hole with his arrow and through that hole swans are flying with ease and it looked like the Ganges coming out of the ear of Jahnu. (Ganga when following Bhagiratha flodded the asrama of he sage Jahnu and he drank the river and let it out of his left ear as requested by Bhagirtha which was why Ganga acquired the name Jahnavi.) Krishna showed to Sathyabhama the Manthara mountain which was churned by the devas to get amrtha. The poetic imagination of Desika runs riot in this chapter and he describes that the gems on the ornaments of the Lord which were stained by the blood of the asuras, became polished and shining due to the drops of nectar the fell on them when the peaks of the mountain were churned and hence they acted as the polishing stones for the gems. This from the mouth of Krishna Himself adds the vehemence and the sloka is also one of metrical beauty. Vilagna dhaithyeSvara SoNithAnAM vikunTa keyoorajushAmmaNeen Am ayathnaSANopalathAm apushyan ArdhrAh suDhAbinDhubhih asya kootAh (Yad.18-30) Krishna further said that the whirlpools of the sea stand as the marks of the speed of the mountain being churned in order to get amrtha and Lakshmi.. Here the words `lakshmeesuDhAsanjan anAya,' reminds one of the words of Yamuna in his sthothra rathna where he says that the Lord took so much trouble to churn the ocean not for securing amrtha to the devas but only to get Lakshmi for Himself. Apart from the meaning in a lighter vein, this may mean that the Lord wanted Lakshmi not for Himself but for the world because she took place in His heart and made it full of mercy. (Reading the sloka of Yamuna this sloka arose in the mind which I would like to share with the devotees. SreeprApthyarTham eva yadhi mahadhAYAsam krtham Thadhapi thava karuNA eva na svArTham karuNekshaNenakarot hi yA jaganmangalam chakarTha thasyAh khalu nivAsam thava hrdhayam That You have taken so much trouble to churn the ocean to get Lakshmi if nit an act of selfishness but for the sake of the world because You have made your heart her abode that she directs her merciful glances to all and causes the welfare of the world.) Thus they reached the Himalayas which Krishna describes as the second Siva because it has Ganges and resorted to by the siddhapurushas and it forms the ornamental boundary to the land of Bharathavarsha. The description of the Himalayas by Desika can only be compared to that of Kalidasa in his kumarasambhava and it excels by the aura of devotion. Mon, 27 Aug 2007 23:37:26 +0530sudarsana.prasadTo: ramanbilSubject: Re: Need Help Reg UpakarmaCC: prasanna_sv Namaskaram mama, Thanks a lot for the guidance. Just out of curiosity sake, adiyen is asking a doubt which might be vague and meaningless.. There are sapta dweepams.. We associate Bharathavarsham with Jambudweepam.. Will the entire world come under this jambudweepam (assuming that the world was a single continuous piece in the beginning)? Adiyen vaguely remember to have read in Acharya Ramamrutham that the entire world comes under the rule of Ishwaku dynasty.. That means the entire world was known as bharatha varsham in puranic times? If yes then why is that the current Bharath (India) alone gets the lead in spiritual hierarchy? If we take flow of Ganga, avatarams of Acharya Mahapurushas as reasons for this lead to India, why is it these apply to current India alone and not to the entire world as a whole? This question might be v absurd and silly.. Kindly pardon adiyen for this.. Dasan Sudarsan On 8/27/07, Ram Anbil <ramanbil wrote: Dear friend:You may just use the same sankalpam that you adopt while in India because according to our Siddhantam Mount Meru is on the northernmost point and the entire world lies to the South of Meru. Hence, "Bharata varshe, Bharatah Khande mero; daksinE paarsve" will do, wherever you may be. Anbil Ramaswamy Sun, 26 Aug 2007 02:51:12 +0530sudarsana.prasadTo: RamanbilSubject: Need Help Reg UpakarmaCC: prasanna_sv Sri: Namaskaram mama, Adiyen is the brother of Prasanna (Atlanta). Adiyen had the bhagyam of speaking to Swami in Chennai when adiyens parents paid a visit at Swamis Thirumaligai. Hope this mail finds Swami in pink of health with Acharya and Divya Dampathi kataksham. Adiyen is now in Cairo on a project here and adiyen will be doing Upakarma here. Adiyen needs Swamis guidance in doing the Upakarma. What is the sankalpam whcih Adiyen must use instead of "Jambhudweepe Bharadha varshe bharadhakhande Sakaapthe meroho dhakshine paarswe" In Ahobilam.com, sankalpam for US is given as " asmathu Bharadhasya Paschimasthe krouncha dweepe uththara Kande" Based on this, should adiyen adapt "asmathu Bharadhasya Paschimasthe ****** dweepe uthare kande" Adiyen does not know what is the dweepam related to Egypt? The same as Dubai should do. Adiyens humble request is Swami must guide and help Adiyen in this. Adiyen will be most thankful to Swami. Adiyen Sudarsana Ramanuja Dasan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2007 Report Share Posted August 30, 2007 Dear Bhagavathas, Another way of looking at Sri Anbil Swami's suggestion: Bharatavarsha/Bharata KhanDa unlike Bhaarata refer to whole world. IkshvAkUnAm iyam bhUmih (Ths Earth belong sto ikshvAkUs) sa shail avana kAnana (including forests and mountains)! If we dive deep, USA belongs to India and vice versa! dAsan K.S. tAtAchAr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 Respected Bhagavatas, It is extremely pleasant to hear all these interpretations since they are all in line with what we do in practice. However Swami Desika Sampradaya is all about harmonisation of the various rules, regulations, statutes, guidance etc together referred to as Shruti and Smriti. For example in Rahasya Traya Saaram, Swami refers to innumerable works for relevant interpretations and sometimes shows the restrictions on certain meanings because there are other Shastras saying things a little differently. For example, he says that there is one vaakyam which says that whatever a Bhagavata says is to be respected since he is a prapanna. There is a position of some that a Bhagavata can get away with anything including gossip about others. However, Swami says that since other vakyams say that even Bhagavatas cannot gossip, the restricted meaning of the original vakyam is that whatever a Bhagavata says in relation to worship of God or other Bhagavataas alone needs to be respected. This is only an example. There are numerous other instances where Swami says that all the Shastras need to be respected and just because some of them are inconvenient to us, they should not be given up. If that were the case, we would be no different from the advaitins who do not respect the Karma Kanda as authentic. Nor do they accept the ghataka shrutis. Similarly if the shastras prohibit certain acts like kicking of cows or killing of Brahmins or crossing of seas, they have to be followed in word and spirit. The main purpose of my original mail was to ask the learned Bhagavatas about the shloka, the translation of which said that the luminous bodies including the sun, move around the Meru mountain which is on the earth. Adiyen would like to know if the said translation is correct or whether there could be a more practical translation of the same.Adiyen would humbly request the intelligentsia to throw light on this for the benefit of the entire community. Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan "tatachar" Ram Anbil ; ; Sudarsana Prasad srinivasan Cc: S. Prasanna Venkatesh Thursday, August 30, 2007 9:18:39 AM Re: RE: Need Help Reg Upakarma Dear Bhagavathas, Another way of looking at Sri Anbil Swami's suggestion: Bharatavarsha/ Bharata KhanDa unlike Bhaarata refer to whole world. IkshvAkUnAm iyam bhUmih (Ths Earth belong sto ikshvAkUs) sa shail avana kAnana (including forests and mountains)! If we dive deep, USA belongs to India and vice versa! dAsan K.S. tAtAchAr Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on TV. Respected Bhagavatas, It is extremely pleasant to hear all these interpretations since they are all in line with what we do. However Swami Desika Sampradaya is all about harmonisation of the various rules, regulations, statutes, guidance etc together referred to as Shruti and Smriti. For example in Rahasya Traya Saaram, Swami refers to innumerable works for relevant interpretations and sometimes shows the restrictions on certain meanings because there are other Shastras saying things a little differently. For example, he says that there is one vaakyam which says that whatever a Bhagavata says is to be respected since he is a prapanna. Here there is a position of some that a Bhagavata can get away with anything including gossip about others. However, Swami says that since other vakyams say that even Bhagavatas cannot gossip, the restricted meaning of the original vakyam is that whatever a Bhagavata says in relation to worship of God or other Bhagavataas alone needs to be respected. This is only an example. There are numerous other instances where Swami says that all the Shastras need to be respected and just because some of them are inconvenient to us, they should not be given up. If that were the case, we would be no different from the advaitins who do not respect the Karma Kanda as authentic. Nor do they accept the ghataka shrutis. Similarly if the shastras prohibit certain acts like kicking of cows or killing of Brahmins or crossing of seas, they have to be followed in word and spirit. The main purpose of my original mail was to ask the learned Bhagavatas about the shloka, the translation of which said that the luminous bodies including the sun, move around the Meru mountain which is on the earth. Adiyen would humbly request the intelligentsia to throw light on this for the benefit of the entire community. Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan "tatachar" <tatacharRam Anbil <Ramanbil; ; Sudarsana Prasad srinivasan <sudarsana.prasadCc: S. Prasanna Venkatesh <prasanna_svThursday, August 30, 2007 9:18:39 AMRe: RE: Need Help Reg Upakarma Dear Bhagavathas,Another way of looking at Sri Anbil Swami's suggestion:Bharatavarsha/ Bharata KhanDa unlike Bhaarata refer to whole world.IkshvAkUnAm iyam bhUmih (Ths Earth belong sto ikshvAkUs)sa shail avana kAnana (including forests and mountains)!If we dive deep, USA belongs to India and vice versa!dAsanK.S. tAtAchAr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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