Guest guest Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 Dear sri vaishNava perunthagaiyeer, In this post let us take up sri sudarsan swamin's mail – and my response. 2. Sri sudarsan swamy's mail – quote -- Dear Sri. MGV Swamin, On the subject of food (meat, alcohol) & chastity there is quite a bit of information AdiyEn have heard. Need your help to get these clarified discretely. a. Meat is mandatory in Sroudha karma (eg.YajnyAs, in some cases even alcohol) depending on one's role in the Sroudha karma and Meat is avoided in Smartha karmas. So in this regard, I don't see avoidance of meat even in Kaliyuga. In Srimad Ramayanam it appears that Sri Rama avoided meat in Vanavasam, as he could not engage in Sroudha karmas. Somewhere ThayAr mentions this to HanumAn. So it appears the consumption of meat is also consecrated by rituals (Sroudha Karmas) and applicable to the 3 varnas, than consumption as a Bhoga vasthu. Now our lifestyle is devoid of Sroudha Karmas, that we resort to vegetarian life-style. Even in marriage AdiYen have heard the couple have to cook and eat fish, which is substituted by plantain (vazhakai). – unquote -- MGV's comments: It is sroutha – means a vedic rites or rituals - as per vedhaas – can take it as 'yagnaas'. Other is 'smaartha karmaa' – which is a 'memorial service' – 'remembering and doing certain rites – can take it as sraardham – which is in memory of those who passed away. Smaranam – means remembering –leading to smaartha. On these smaartha karmaas – mahaa bhaaratham anusassana parvam [that parvam 13 in which sahasra naamam appears] says - Quote- translation by kisari mohan ganguli – taken from www.sacred-texts.com SECTION 88 Yudhishthira said, 'O thou of great puissance, tell me § what that object is which, if dedicated to the Pitris, becomes inexhaustible! § What Havi, again, (if offered) lasts for all time? § What, indeed, is that which (if presented) becomes eternal?' " Bhishma said, 'Listen to me, O Yudhishthira, what those Havis are which persons conversant with the ritual of the Sraddha regard as suitable in view of the Sraddha and what the fruits are that attach to each. With sesame seeds, rice, barley, Masha, water, roots and fruits, if given at Sraddhas, the Pitris, O king, remain gratified for the period of a month. [1] Manu has said that if a Sraddha is performed with a copious measure of sesame, such Sraddha becomes inexhaustible. Of all kinds of food, sesame seeds are regarded as the best. [MGV adds sesame is thilam – or eLLu in tamil- now we understand why we use thilam in sraardham – also in another chapter how this thilam came is explained] § With fishes offered at Sraddhas, the Pitris remain gratified for a period of 2 months. § With mutton they remain gratified for 3 months. § With the flesh of the hare for 4. § With the flesh of the goat, O king, they remain gratified for 5 months, § with bacon for 6 months. § With the flesh of birds for 7. § With venison obtained from those deer that are called Prishata, they remain gratified for 8 months, § with that obtained from the Ruru for 9 months, § with the meat of the Gavaya for 10 months. [MGV adds gavaya is cow] § With the meat of the buffalo their gratification lasts for 11 months. § With beef presented at the Sraddha, their gratification, it is said, lasts for a full year. Payasa mixed with ghee is as much acceptable to the Pitris as beef. With the meat of the Vadhrinasa the gratification of the Pitris lasts for 12 years. [1] The flesh of the rhinoceros, offered to the Pitris on the anniversaries of the lunar days on which they died, becomes inexhaustible. The potherb called Kalasaka, the petals of the Kanchana flower, and meat of the goat also, thus offered, prove inexhaustible. [2] In this connection, O Yudhishthira, there are some verses, originally sung by the Pitris, that are sung (in the world). Sanatkumara communicated them to me in former days. He that has taken birth in our race should give us Payasa mixed with ghee on the 13 th day (of the dark fortnight), under the constellation Magha, during the Sun's southward course. One born in our race should, under the constellation Magha, as if in the observance of a vow, offer the meat of goat or the petals of the Kanchana flower. One should also offer us, with due rites, Payasa mixed with ghee, dedicating it on a spot covered by the shadow of an elephant. Many sons should be coveted so that even one may go to Gaya (for performing the Sraddha of his ancestors), where stands the banyan that is celebrated over all the worlds and that makes all offerings made under its branches inexhaustible. [3] Even a little of water, roots, fruits, meat, and rice, mixed with honey, if offered on the anniversary of the day of death becomes inexhaustible. " Footnotes 144:1 Masha, is the Phascolus Roxburghii. [MGV adds it is ulundhu in tamil – while doing the rites vaadhyaar swamy may command to the karthaa - say 'maashaa bhoobam nivedhayaami – pointing to vadai] 145:1 It is difficult to understand what is meant by Vadhrinasa here. It means either a large bull, or a kind of bird, or a variety of the goat. Probably the bull is intended. 145:2 Pitrikshaye is mrita-tithau. Kalasaka is explained by Nilakantha as identical with the common potherb called Shuka or the country sorrel (Rumex visicarius, Linn). Some hold that it is something like the sorrel, Lauham is the petals of the Kanchana flower (Bauhinia acuminata, Linn). 145:3 To this day the sanctity of Gaya is universally recognised by all Hindus. Sraddhas are performed there under the banyan called the Akshaya or inexhaustible banian. Unquote--- [MGV adds – gayaa sraardham gets a mention in this parva as stated by bheeshma. I added sometime back in another article how whatever bheeshma said in santhi [12], anusaasana parvams [13] are nothing but "bhagavaan krishNa's" words – ref chapter 54 and 55 of santhi parvam] Will continue with rest of sudarsan swamy's mail in next post as already the length of post is more. Dhasan Vasudevan m.g.-- Vasudevan MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 dear moderator swamin it appears again this and subsequent posts have not reached you. so sending again regards MGV---------- Forwarded message ----------MG Vasudevan <vasudevanmgOct 13, 2007 8:01 AM raama's food habits 5 , oppiliappan <oppiliappan >, tiruvenkatam <tiruvenkatam > Dear sri vaishNava perunthagaiyeer, In this post let us take up sri sudarsan swamin's mail – and my response. 2. Sri sudarsan swamy's mail – quote -- Dear Sri. MGV Swamin, On the subject of food (meat, alcohol) & chastity there is quite a bit of information AdiyEn have heard. Need your help to get these clarified discretely. a. Meat is mandatory in Sroudha karma (eg.YajnyAs, in some cases even alcohol) depending on one's role in the Sroudha karma and Meat is avoided in Smartha karmas. So in this regard, I don't see avoidance of meat even in Kaliyuga. In Srimad Ramayanam it appears that Sri Rama avoided meat in Vanavasam, as he could not engage in Sroudha karmas. Somewhere ThayAr mentions this to HanumAn. So it appears the consumption of meat is also consecrated by rituals (Sroudha Karmas) and applicable to the 3 varnas, than consumption as a Bhoga vasthu. Now our lifestyle is devoid of Sroudha Karmas, that we resort to vegetarian life-style. Even in marriage AdiYen have heard the couple have to cook and eat fish, which is substituted by plantain (vazhakai). – unquote -- MGV's comments: It is sroutha – means a vedic rites or rituals - as per vedhaas – can take it as 'yagnaas'. Other is 'smaartha karmaa' – which is a 'memorial service' – 'remembering and doing certain rites – can take it as sraardham – which is in memory of those who passed away. Smaranam – means remembering –leading to smaartha. On these smaartha karmaas – mahaa bhaaratham anusassana parvam [that parvam 13 in which sahasra naamam appears] says - Quote- translation by kisari mohan ganguli – taken from www.sacred-texts.com SECTION 88 Yudhishthira said, 'O thou of great puissance, tell me § what that object is which, if dedicated to the Pitris, becomes inexhaustible! § What Havi, again, (if offered) lasts for all time? § What, indeed, is that which (if presented) becomes eternal?' " Bhishma said, 'Listen to me, O Yudhishthira, what those Havis are which persons conversant with the ritual of the Sraddha regard as suitable in view of the Sraddha and what the fruits are that attach to each. With sesame seeds, rice, barley, Masha, water, roots and fruits, if given at Sraddhas, the Pitris, O king, remain gratified for the period of a month. [1] Manu has said that if a Sraddha is performed with a copious measure of sesame, such Sraddha becomes inexhaustible. Of all kinds of food, sesame seeds are regarded as the best. [MGV adds sesame is thilam – or eLLu in tamil- now we understand why we use thilam in sraardham – also in another chapter how this thilam came is explained] § With fishes offered at Sraddhas, the Pitris remain gratified for a period of 2 months. § With mutton they remain gratified for 3 months. § With the flesh of the hare for 4. § With the flesh of the goat, O king, they remain gratified for 5 months, § with bacon for 6 months. § With the flesh of birds for 7. § With venison obtained from those deer that are called Prishata, they remain gratified for 8 months, § with that obtained from the Ruru for 9 months, § with the meat of the Gavaya for 10 months. [MGV adds gavaya is cow] § With the meat of the buffalo their gratification lasts for 11 months. § With beef presented at the Sraddha, their gratification, it is said, lasts for a full year. Payasa mixed with ghee is as much acceptable to the Pitris as beef. With the meat of the Vadhrinasa the gratification of the Pitris lasts for 12 years. [1] The flesh of the rhinoceros, offered to the Pitris on the anniversaries of the lunar days on which they died, becomes inexhaustible. The potherb called Kalasaka, the petals of the Kanchana flower, and meat of the goat also, thus offered, prove inexhaustible. [2] In this connection, O Yudhishthira, there are some verses, originally sung by the Pitris, that are sung (in the world). Sanatkumara communicated them to me in former days. He that has taken birth in our race should give us Payasa mixed with ghee on the 13 th day (of the dark fortnight), under the constellation Magha, during the Sun's southward course. One born in our race should, under the constellation Magha, as if in the observance of a vow, offer the meat of goat or the petals of the Kanchana flower. One should also offer us, with due rites, Payasa mixed with ghee, dedicating it on a spot covered by the shadow of an elephant. Many sons should be coveted so that even one may go to Gaya (for performing the Sraddha of his ancestors), where stands the banyan that is celebrated over all the worlds and that makes all offerings made under its branches inexhaustible. [3] Even a little of water, roots, fruits, meat, and rice, mixed with honey, if offered on the anniversary of the day of death becomes inexhaustible. " Footnotes 144:1 Masha, is the Phascolus Roxburghii. [MGV adds it is ulundhu in tamil – while doing the rites vaadhyaar swamy may command to the karthaa - say 'maashaa bhoobam nivedhayaami – pointing to vadai] 145:1 It is difficult to understand what is meant by Vadhrinasa here. It means either a large bull, or a kind of bird, or a variety of the goat. Probably the bull is intended. 145:2 Pitrikshaye is mrita-tithau. Kalasaka is explained by Nilakantha as identical with the common potherb called Shuka or the country sorrel (Rumex visicarius, Linn). Some hold that it is something like the sorrel, Lauham is the petals of the Kanchana flower (Bauhinia acuminata, Linn). 145:3 To this day the sanctity of Gaya is universally recognised by all Hindus. Sraddhas are performed there under the banyan called the Akshaya or inexhaustible banian. Unquote--- [MGV adds – gayaa sraardham gets a mention in this parva as stated by bheeshma. I added sometime back in another article how whatever bheeshma said in santhi [12], anusaasana parvams [13] are nothing but " bhagavaan krishNa's " words – ref chapter 54 and 55 of santhi parvam] Will continue with rest of sudarsan swamy's mail in next post as already the length of post is more. DhasanVasudevan m.g.-- Vasudevan MG -- Vasudevan MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 Adiyen would like you to elaborate the saaramsam or message conveyed thru these series of posts. While all the quotes and references affirms the meat eating habbits of our ancestors, reading this might prompt an ignorant person like me to only tread in this direction. Half knowledge is always dangerous. I would appreciate learned people like you and others to share the message conveyed in each of the posts rather merely stating meat eating was prevalant in old golden times. Pls excuse if my email has hurt anyone knowingly or unknowingly. I am writing this by keeping in mind many ignorant members, who have come to understand Vaishnavism. Adiyen, Chaithanya On 10/12/07, MG Vasudevan <vasudevanmg wrote: Dear sri vaishNava perunthagaiyeer, In this post let us take up sri sudarsan swamin's mail – and my response. 2. Sri sudarsan swamy's mail – quote -- Dear Sri. MGV Swamin, On the subject of food (meat, alcohol) & chastity there is quite a bit of information AdiyEn have heard. Need your help to get these clarified discretely. a. Meat is mandatory in Sroudha karma (eg.YajnyAs, in some cases even alcohol) depending on one's role in the Sroudha karma and Meat is avoided in Smartha karmas. So in this regard, I don't see avoidance of meat even in Kaliyuga. In Srimad Ramayanam it appears that Sri Rama avoided meat in Vanavasam, as he could not engage in Sroudha karmas. Somewhere ThayAr mentions this to HanumAn. So it appears the consumption of meat is also consecrated by rituals (Sroudha Karmas) and applicable to the 3 varnas, than consumption as a Bhoga vasthu. Now our lifestyle is devoid of Sroudha Karmas, that we resort to vegetarian life-style. Even in marriage AdiYen have heard the couple have to cook and eat fish, which is substituted by plantain (vazhakai). – unquote -- MGV's comments: It is sroutha – means a vedic rites or rituals - as per vedhaas – can take it as 'yagnaas'. Other is 'smaartha karmaa' – which is a 'memorial service' – 'remembering and doing certain rites – can take it as sraardham – which is in memory of those who passed away. Smaranam – means remembering –leading to smaartha. On these smaartha karmaas – mahaa bhaaratham anusassana parvam [that parvam 13 in which sahasra naamam appears] says - Quote- translation by kisari mohan ganguli – taken from www.sacred-texts.com SECTION 88 Yudhishthira said, 'O thou of great puissance, tell me § what that object is which, if dedicated to the Pitris, becomes inexhaustible! § What Havi, again, (if offered) lasts for all time? § What, indeed, is that which (if presented) becomes eternal?' " Bhishma said, 'Listen to me, O Yudhishthira, what those Havis are which persons conversant with the ritual of the Sraddha regard as suitable in view of the Sraddha and what the fruits are that attach to each. With sesame seeds, rice, barley, Masha, water, roots and fruits, if given at Sraddhas, the Pitris, O king, remain gratified for the period of a month. [1] Manu has said that if a Sraddha is performed with a copious measure of sesame, such Sraddha becomes inexhaustible. Of all kinds of food, sesame seeds are regarded as the best. [MGV adds sesame is thilam – or eLLu in tamil- now we understand why we use thilam in sraardham – also in another chapter how this thilam came is explained] § With fishes offered at Sraddhas, the Pitris remain gratified for a period of 2 months. § With mutton they remain gratified for 3 months. § With the flesh of the hare for 4. § With the flesh of the goat, O king, they remain gratified for 5 months, § with bacon for 6 months. § With the flesh of birds for 7. § With venison obtained from those deer that are called Prishata, they remain gratified for 8 months, § with that obtained from the Ruru for 9 months, § with the meat of the Gavaya for 10 months. [MGV adds gavaya is cow] § With the meat of the buffalo their gratification lasts for 11 months. § With beef presented at the Sraddha, their gratification, it is said, lasts for a full year. Payasa mixed with ghee is as much acceptable to the Pitris as beef. With the meat of the Vadhrinasa the gratification of the Pitris lasts for 12 years. [1] The flesh of the rhinoceros, offered to the Pitris on the anniversaries of the lunar days on which they died, becomes inexhaustible. The potherb called Kalasaka, the petals of the Kanchana flower, and meat of the goat also, thus offered, prove inexhaustible. [2] In this connection, O Yudhishthira, there are some verses, originally sung by the Pitris, that are sung (in the world). Sanatkumara communicated them to me in former days. He that has taken birth in our race should give us Payasa mixed with ghee on the 13 th day (of the dark fortnight), under the constellation Magha, during the Sun's southward course. One born in our race should, under the constellation Magha, as if in the observance of a vow, offer the meat of goat or the petals of the Kanchana flower. One should also offer us, with due rites, Payasa mixed with ghee, dedicating it on a spot covered by the shadow of an elephant. Many sons should be coveted so that even one may go to Gaya (for performing the Sraddha of his ancestors), where stands the banyan that is celebrated over all the worlds and that makes all offerings made under its branches inexhaustible. [3] Even a little of water, roots, fruits, meat, and rice, mixed with honey, if offered on the anniversary of the day of death becomes inexhaustible. " Footnotes 144:1 Masha, is the Phascolus Roxburghii. [MGV adds it is ulundhu in tamil – while doing the rites vaadhyaar swamy may command to the karthaa - say 'maashaa bhoobam nivedhayaami – pointing to vadai] 145:1 It is difficult to understand what is meant by Vadhrinasa here. It means either a large bull, or a kind of bird, or a variety of the goat. Probably the bull is intended. 145:2 Pitrikshaye is mrita-tithau. Kalasaka is explained by Nilakantha as identical with the common potherb called Shuka or the country sorrel (Rumex visicarius, Linn). Some hold that it is something like the sorrel, Lauham is the petals of the Kanchana flower (Bauhinia acuminata, Linn). 145:3 To this day the sanctity of Gaya is universally recognised by all Hindus. Sraddhas are performed there under the banyan called the Akshaya or inexhaustible banian. Unquote--- [MGV adds – gayaa sraardham gets a mention in this parva as stated by bheeshma. I added sometime back in another article how whatever bheeshma said in santhi [12], anusaasana parvams [13] are nothing but " bhagavaan krishNa's " words – ref chapter 54 and 55 of santhi parvam] Will continue with rest of sudarsan swamy's mail in next post as already the length of post is more. DhasanVasudevan m.g.-- Vasudevan MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 Dear Swamin, >>MGV's comments: It is sroutha – means a vedic rites or rituals - as per vedhaas – can take it as 'yagnaas'. Other is 'smaartha karmaa' – which is a 'memorial service' – 'remembering and doing certain rites – can take it as sraardham – which is in memory of those who passed away. Smaranam – means remembering –leading to smaartha.<< I believe smaartha karma is that which is primarily based on non-vedic text ssuch as Smrithis (puraaNams). Shraaddham is primarily a shrouta (Vedic) rite. We follow shrouta-smmarta tradition over all- meaning based on both Vedic and post vedic injunctions. Even sandhya has some non-vedic elements in it- like soem shlokams fo rGayatri, Saraswathi, saavithri, Sriranga mangal amanim etc. dAsan, K.S. tAtAchAr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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