Reg: Ayyappa, Durga, Sathyanarayana Poojas

October 15, 2007

Dear Bhagavatas: Recently, I was invited by some good and well meaning friends to attend the following Poojas

Ayyappa Pooja:

(With wearing of “maalai”, black colored Dhoti etc and reciting “SaamiyE Saranam Ayyappa”)

Durga Pooja: (Bengali style)

(With Durga depicted as killing “Mahishasura”)

Sathyanarayana Pooja: (Maharashtra style)

(With reading the story of Sathyanarayana and how non performance of the Pooja will affect the non believers etc)

As a Prapanna, I do not involve myself in all these Poojas and I have firm and unshakeable faith in Sriman Narayana who ALONE can grant “moksha”.

I would like to know from the erudite scholars in the group whether there are any references authorising observance of these Poojas in the

- Vedas,

- Upanishads,

- Itihaasas

- “Saatvic” PuraaNas

- Azhwars

- and / or any directions of SrivaishNava Achaarya Parampara

(right from Nathamunigal to present day Achaaryas).

If so, I will be obliged to have the EXACT QUOTES from these scriptures.

If they are not in any of the above, I would like to know where exactly they have been referred to in our scriptures that lend an aura of authenticity, if any.

As these doubts seem to have been bothering other Bhagavatas also as seen from their frequently asked questions, I am presenting them for your well researched clarifications.

Thanking you in advance

Dasoham

Anbil Ramaswamy

October 16, 2007

Dear Swamin,

Satyanarayana Puja is from the Skanda Puranam.

Durga Puja: May be Devi Bhagavatham or mahaatmyam.

Lord Krishna asks Arjuna to pray for Durga just before war.

Ayyapa: Hari-Hara putra is of Keral aorigin. Not sure of

any puraana.

I guess once adherence to Srimannarayana is firm,

there is no big concern in honoring the invitation.

yat bhaavam tat bhavati!

dAsan

K.S. tAtAchAr

October 18, 2007

Respected Anbil Swami & fellow bhagavathas,

Adiyen's humble pranams to you all.

The observance of these poojas can be authenticated as these have not

just sprung from out of the blue. But I assume what is meant by Sri

Anbil Swami's mail is that whether we, the srivaishnavas have any

authentication to rely upon, to attend these poojas since in the

present day world of multi-god believers, we often get a doubt whether

we are committing any apacharam by refusing to attend these poojas.

Let me quote " vaarthaa maalai " , a compilation of advices of Acharyas

on different issues (532 Vaarthaigal).

Vaarthai 348 & 349 give us the guidance on this issue.

Vaarthai 349 ( given by Sri Nampillai & found in page 385 of

Guruparampara prabhavam) says that since homas on other devathas are

conducted as per vedas (veda vidhi)and since it is Sriman Narayanan

who receives the ultimate offering, there is nothing wrong in taking

part in them. But visiting the temple of other devathas have no veda

vidhi and hence prohibited for a srivishnava. One may ask how then

Arjuna did shiva pooja ('theerthanulagalanda.. Thiruvai mozhi - 2-8-6)

That is justified because it was so ordained by Emperuman for the sake

of a particular 'laabham' of getting paashupada asthram.

The inference from this in the context explained by Sri Anbil swamy is

that if it is a homa, a srivaishnavan need to have no qualms to

attend. If it is a worship of another devatha, he must not attend.

Why he should not attend is given in the vaarthai 348, (given by Sri

Bhattar and found in page 355 of Guruparampara prabhavam.)

It is because a srivaishnavan, as he is a worshipper of saatwic god,

namely Vishnu, is satwam-embodied. All the other gods have mix of

other 2 gunas too. So they are a shred below the srivaishnavan and not

the other way round. To such a srivasihnavan other gods come to serve

( Purusha sookhtham 2-5 " yas dwaivam brahmano...) If such a sri

vaishnavan goes to worship other gods saying that he indeed sees

Sriman Narayana in them, in due course, he will be enveloped with the

gunas of those deities and lose satwam in him.

The inference from this is (combining the previous vaarthai) is that

a srivasihnavan steadfast on his committment to Sriman Narayana, needs

to have no worries whether he is doing apachara by abstaining from

attending a pooja on other deities.

In the present day scenario where honouring a friend's invitation to

attend a pooja is also important ( A srivaishanvan never hurts others'

sentiments), attending such a pooja and worshiping Sriman Narayana as

the athman of those deities is not wrong, as Sri Nampillai has

cautioned against doing such a worship 'continuously'. A rare

occurence of such worship/ participation, taking into consideration

other issues does not result in diminution of satwam.

However avoiding this can happen if we adhere to vaarthai 321 (a

compilation based on azhwars' advice in prabhandam. The Srivaishnavan

is compared to a pati-vrathai and is advised on whom they have to

stick to and whom to give up.

There are 5 types of people whom they have to keep off from.

They are samsaaris, other devathas, worshippers of other devathas,

followers of other religions and srivasihnavas who pretend to be

srivasihnavas.

The message is clear.

In this present day world, we have to move with difefernt types of

people. But while giving close space to the so-called friends, a

srivaishnava must be choosy, and allow closeness to only those who

have steadfast committemt to Sriman Narayana. A little distance is

needed against beleivers of other gods and religions so that piquant

situations can be avoided with no harm being done to personal

equations with others.

Please pardon me if I have done any apacharam to this group and fellow

bahgavathas by writing this mail.

Dasan,

Manivannan.

, Ram Anbil <Ramanbil wrote:

>

> Dear Bhagavatas: Recently, I was invited by some good and well

meaning friends to attend the following Poojas

>

> Ayyappa Pooja:

> (With wearing of " maalai " , black colored Dhoti etc and reciting

" SaamiyE Saranam Ayyappa " )

>

> Durga Pooja: (Bengali style)

> (With Durga depicted as killing " Mahishasura " )

>

> Sathyanarayana Pooja: (Maharashtra style)

> (With reading the story of Sathyanarayana and how non performance of

the Pooja will affect the non believers etc)

>

> As a Prapanna, I do not involve myself in all these Poojas and I

have firm and unshakeable faith in Sriman Narayana who ALONE can grant

" moksha " .

>

> I would like to know from the erudite scholars in the group whether

there are any references authorising observance of these Poojas in the

> - Vedas,

> - Upanishads,

> - Itihaasas

> - " Saatvic " PuraaNas

> - Azhwars

> - and / or any directions of SrivaishNava Achaarya Parampara

> (right from Nathamunigal to present day Achaaryas).

>

> If so, I will be obliged to have the EXACT QUOTES from these scriptures.

>

> If they are not in any of the above, I would like to know where

exactly they have been referred to in our scriptures that lend an aura

of authenticity, if any.

>

> As these doubts seem to have been bothering other Bhagavatas also as

seen from their frequently asked questions, I am presenting them for

your well researched clarifications.

>

> Thanking you in advance

>

> Dasoham

> Anbil Ramaswamy

>

October 18, 2007

Dear Bhagavatas:

As the postings are drifting into a discussion for which "Sri Ranga Sri" is NOT THE FORUM,

further mails on the subject may not be posted to Sri Ranga Sri UNLESS they contain authentic authority from the "Satvic" sources specifically mentioned in the original mail in support of Prapannas attending such Poojas.

You may carry on the discussions through private mails, if you wish.

Thank you for your understanding and co-operation.

My replies to the points raised by darshana iyer are given in Red color for your information.

Dasoham

Anbil Ramaswamy========================================================================> Tue, 16 Oct 2007 06:04:09 +0100> darshanaiyer Re: Reg: Ayyappa, Durga, Sathyanarayana Poojas> > CC: ramanbil > Sir,> > I am well aware of your erudition and scholarship and> also of your prapannatvam. But a few doubts bother me> reading this mail of yours. Thank you for your kind words and for presenting your doubts.> > Since you yourself say in your mail - "As a Prapanna,> I do not involve myself in all these Poojas and I have> firm and unshakeable faith in Sriman Narayana who> ALONE can grant “moksha”." - I fail to understand why> you seek information from any scripture regarding> these pujas. This is to provide authentic answers with adequate PramaaNams to Bhagavatas who raise these questions genuinely.> > Moreover, why should any Bhagavatha or Vaishnava be> bothered about doubts regarding these pujas or> anything else that has anything to do with any deity> other than Sriman Narayana since they too, as> Prapannas, have submitted themselves wholly at the> Charanakamalam of Sriman Narayana. Prapannas need not> be concerned at all. You are correct. No true Srivaishnava who is a Prapanna will bother about these.> > But this leads me to another question. When Sriman> Narayana is Sarvavyapi and Sarvabhutantaratma, why not> see and worship the same Sriman Narayana as the> Antaryamin in Ayyappa or Durga or Sathyanarayana or> any other deity? This is FAQ that has been raised and answered many times.The correct position as per Srivaishnava siddhantam is that Prapannas should NOT bow to them even as "Antharyaami" unless specially permitted in the Vedas (for exmple, in Sandhya Vandanam which is Veda mantram, we recite the names of "Brahma deivatyaam", "Rudra Deivatyaam" etc.)

In all other cases, we are not supposed to take liberties and do vandanam to these other devatas even by default (marandum puram thozhaa maandar) under the pretext that they have Sriman Narayana as their Antharyaami. This is because for the somewhat less evolved persons with an impressionable mind, this might become a tempting next logical step to the doubt and consequently the belief that these demigods may be capable of granting "mOksham" - forgetting thet they are incapable of granting mOKsham (pvaram tara miDukkillaada tEvar) thus forfeiting the fruits of their Prapatti to Bhagavaan Sriman Narayana.

A Prapanna is like a Sumngali wedded to Sriman Narayana.

Acharyas used to say that it is like a wife telling her husband that she thinks of him only even while flirting with someone else! > By the way, what makes Sathyanarayana any different> from Sriman Narayana? As far as I know, He is> nondifferent from Sriman Narayana. Even in the puja> kalpam and puja katha, he is described as Sriman> Narayana. If Sathyanarayana is different from Sriman> Narayana, how is it that archanam is performed with> either Krishnashtotram or Vishnu Sahasranamam. To lend an aura of authenticity, the votaries would always call any of their "IshTa devatas" as Sriman Narayana. That Rama Ashtottaram and KrishNa AshTottaram are recited does not mean they are sancioned in the Vedas etc. or that these Poojas are any more authentic. This Sathyanarayana has been mentioned and that too only casually and in passing in "Skaanda PuraaNam" which is considered to be one of the least authoritative Taamasa PuraaNams. Strict Srivaishnavas who have understood the position, therefore, do not give credence to the stories and the Pooja Vidanams subsequntly built around these legends and do not observe them. Hope this clarifies. If you have any further questions, please send your mails to my personal id and NOT to "Sri Ranga Sri" where they will not be approved as a matter of policy.Anbil Ramaswamy > Regards,> Sudarshana Arya> > --- Ram Anbil <Ramanbil wrote:> > > Dear Bhagavatas: Recently, I was invited by some> > good and well meaning friends to attend the> > following Poojas> > > > Ayyappa Pooja:> > (With wearing of “maalai”, black colored Dhoti etc> > and reciting “SaamiyE Saranam Ayyappa”)> > > > Durga Pooja: (Bengali style)> > (With Durga depicted as killing “Mahishasura”)> > > > Sathyanarayana Pooja: (Maharashtra style)> > (With reading the story of Sathyanarayana and how> > non performance of the Pooja will affect the non> > believers etc)> > > > As a Prapanna, I do not involve myself in all these> > Poojas and I have firm and unshakeable faith in> > Sriman Narayana who ALONE can grant “moksha”.> > > > I would like to know from the erudite scholars in> > the group whether there are any references> > authorising observance of these Poojas in the> > - Vedas,> > - Upanishads,> > - Itihaasas> > - “Saatvic” PuraaNas> > - Azhwars> > - and / or any directions of SrivaishNava Achaarya> > Parampara> > (right from Nathamunigal to present day Achaaryas).> > > > If so, I will be obliged to have the EXACT QUOTES> > from these scriptures.> > > > If they are not in any of the above, I would like to> > know where exactly they have been referred to in our> > scriptures that lend an aura of authenticity, if> > any.> > > > As these doubts seem to have been bothering other> > Bhagavatas also as seen from their frequently asked > > questions, I am presenting them for your well> > researched clarifications.> > > > Thanking you in advance> > > > Dasoham> > Anbil Ramaswamy> > > > > > > > > > Messenger blocked? Want to chat? Go to http://in.messenger./webmessengerpromo.php