RELEVANCE OF PITRU KARAYAMS AFTER PRAPATTI (BHARNYASAM)

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Respected SwamisAdiyen is confused with the concept of Prapatti:Is Prapatti and Bharanaysam the same ?It is general understanding that Prapatti (Bharanyasam) means getting Mokshafor the Jeeva after death.If

a person (Jeeva) is blessed with Bharanyasam and then attained Acharyan

Thiruvadi, , how relevant is performance of the regular Pitru Kaaryams by the family of this person?Adiyen would be thankful if this doubt could be clarified.Daasana n sriraman

 

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Respected Sriraman swamin,

 

Adiyen dasasya pranams. I try to spell out my clarification received from my

Brahaspathi, who is my guiding factor in doing my Pithru kaaryams.. He clarified that

 

1) there need not be any confusion over Prapathi and Bharanyasam. Both or same. But by doing prapathi under the lotus feet of Sriman Narayanan does not give a Jeevan the right to claim moksham.. It is just like a child saying ,since he has written the exam he should be given promotion to higher class. Writing an exam is a process, for which the child has to do more preparations and face the exam. Even all Jeevans are not selected for performing Prapathi. It is because of HIS sankalpam only the Jeevathma gets the chance & call to do Prapathi. Further by merely doing prapathi does not entitle a Jeevathma for immediate moksham. HE decides when to give this Jeevathma Moksham. This he decides by culminating and eliminating the " pabha & punya karmas" of the Jeevathma. But prapathi is the only way for Salvation

from this cycle of Birth.

 

2) Whether a jeevathama does prapathi or not " Pithru Kaaryams" has to be necessarily performed by his sons. It is sons' " Defined Duty " in sastras. Whether his father attained Moksha or not, it is immaterial for him.. He has to do his "Pithru Karyaams" without fail. The benefit (PHalan) of doing pithru kaaryams goes to Lord only as he receives them in the form of Pithruus. Another thing, the Kartha of Pithru Kaaryams gets the satisfaction of having done his duty as stipulated by HIM through sastras.

 

Adiyen Dasan

Sridharan--- On Sun, 21/2/10, A N SRIRAMAN <alnasriraman wrote:

A N SRIRAMAN <alnasriraman RELEVANCE OF PITRU KARAYAMS AFTER PRAPATTI (BHARNYASAM) Date: Sunday, 21 February, 2010, 9:53 PM

 

 

 

 

 

Respected SwamisAdiyen is confused with the concept of Prapatti:Is Prapatti and Bharanaysam the same ?It is general understanding that Prapatti (Bharanyasam) means getting Mokshafor the Jeeva after death.If a person (Jeeva) is blessed with Bharanyasam and then attained Acharyan Thiruvadi, , how relevant is performance of the regular Pitru Kaaryams by the family of this person?Adiyen would be thankful if this doubt could be clarified.Daasana n sriraman

 

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On 24 February 2010 13:54, Srinivasa Raghavan C /Mds <csraghav wrote:

 

Respected Vadhyar swamin,

 

It is an interesting mail for your reference and views, if any.

 

Adiyen Ravi

 

- Parthasarathy Sridharan

A N SRIRAMAN

Cc:

Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:52 PM

Re: RELEVANCE OF PITRU KARAYAMS AFTER PRAPATTI (BHARNYASAM)  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  Respected Sriraman swamin,  

 

 Adiyen dasasya pranams.  I try to spell out my clarification received from my 

 Brahaspathi,   who is my guiding factor in doing my Pithru kaaryams..  He clarified that

 

1)  there need not be any confusion  over Prapathi and Bharanyasam. Both or same. 

But by doing prapathi under the lotus feet of Sriman Narayanan does not give a Jeevan the right to claim  moksham.. It is just like a child saying ,since he has written the exam he should be  given promotion to higher class.  Writing an exam is  a process, for which the child has to do more preparations and face the exam.  

Even all Jeevans  are not selected for performing Prapathi.  It is because of HIS sankalpam only the Jeevathma gets the chance & call to do Prapathi. 

Further by merely doing prapathi does not entitle a Jeevathma for immediate moksham. HE decides when to give this Jeevathma Moksham. This he decides by culminating  and eliminating the  " pabha & punya karmas "  of the Jeevathma. But prapathi is the only way for Salvation from this cycle of Birth.

 

 

2)  Whether a jeevathama does prapathi or not  " Pithru Kaaryams " has to be necessarily performed by his sons.  It is sons'  " Defined Duty " in sastras. Whether his father attained Moksha or not, it is immaterial for him.. He has to do his " Pithru Karyaams "  without fail. The benefit (PHalan) of doing  pithru kaaryams goes to Lord only as he receives them in the form of Pithruus.   Another thing, the Kartha of Pithru Kaaryams gets the satisfaction of having done his duty as stipulated by HIM through sastras.    Dear Ravi,here is my comments:

 Adiyen dasasya pranams.  I try to spell out my clarification received from my 

 Brahaspathi,   who is my guiding factor in doing my Pithru kaaryams..  He clarified that

 

1)  there need not be any confusion  over Prapathi and Bharanyasam. Both or same. >>> Very Correct But by doing prapathi ........ face the exam.  >>> This statement will again create confusion about prapatti among people because

the concept of prapatti is : " Oh God I am helpless, I could not do

anything towards my enlightenment, I don't have any " Shaksthi or

Saamarthyam " to anything for that, so,

I given up everything entirely to your lotus feet, no more with me to leave " is the real concept.

 

Also, it sounds, that a person himself can do praptti to Sriman Narayana without a Guru,

otherwise we can not accept the sentence " It is just like a child saying .... " .

An Acharyan is having the break-less link from Sriman Narayanan to save souls.

When the prapatti is performed by HH Acharyan for us, how can we think it as " Child saying " ,

" Attempting & preparing for examination etc. " ?!

The greatest qualification of prapannan is " Maha Vishvasam "

The greatest disqualification for a prapannan with lack of belief!

Also, it is stressed that you should not have any doubt in your performance of prapatti

and should not try to do the prapatti again.

For this a very good example also will be given by Scholars:

Prapatti will go vain if try to do once more like the " Bhramastram left

Hanuman while the Raakshasas are tried to tie him with some rope for

more protection. "

Also, they quote the verse for Sri Rama " Sakrudeva Prapannaya Tavasmiti Yachate Abhayam Sarvabhutebhyo Dadami Etat vratam Mama " here Sakrudeva means 'only once' which is to be considered.

Even all Jeevans  .......................... Prapathi.  >>> We can partially accept this, but not fully, everything is

done according to HIS sankalpam, but as per HIS sankapam he is giving

24 tatvas (Karna Kalebarams) for all jeevas (the 25th tatva) to act its

own to liberate from all its sin. By doing this the jeeva is getting

the 'Sath Sangam " which leads to attain an Acharyan and then Prapatti

with the advice of the acharyan.Further by merely doing prapathi ........... But prapathi is the only way for Salvation from this cycle of Birth.Here also some clarification needs,

" Sarvadharman Parityajya Mam Ekam Saranam Vraja |

Aham tva Sarva

Papebhyo Mokshayishyami Masuchaha ||

should be realized here, when the Charnagati is done, all the 'Sanchita

& Aagami' (Past & Future) phapams will be eliminated from that

jeeva;

The 'Praarabhta Karma' which is like an arrow which sent out from a bow

can not be eliminated and that should be enjoyed for the remaining

period of life. And hence " Dehavasane moksham' which is described as

" Charnamagum tanathaal adaintaarkkellam Maranamaanaal vaikundam

kodukkum piran " by Nammazhvar and this is the one of the Six words

given by " Kanchi Vardarajan " to Srimath Ramanujar through " Thirukkachi Nambigal " .

Nobody can refuse the underlined sentence.

Because, The Anna Krishnapremi will always wonder and say

Emperuman is not at all giving moksham to many Rishis, and mahans,

Vidwans, powerful emperor like " Hiranyan " , and even not to his close

friend 'Arjuna' [Once he took him to Paramapadam]; but he is giving it

easily to persons like 'Ajamila', 'Gajendra', 'Prahallada',

'Kshatrabhandu' like poors!!

 

2)  Whether a jeevathama does prapathi or not  " Pithru Kaaryams " has to be necessarily performed by his sons.  It is sons'  " Defined Duty " in sastras. Whether his father attained Moksha or not, it is immaterial for him.. He has to do his " Pithru Karyaams "  without fail. The benefit (PHalan) of doing  pithru kaaryams goes to Lord only as he receives them in the form of Pithruus.   Another thing, the Kartha of Pithru Kaaryams gets the satisfaction of having done his duty as stipulated by HIM through sastras.>>>

Most of the things are correctly said but I want to add more clarification.

Dharma is only applicable for the Sareeram and not for the soul.

Because all souls, [plant, bird, animal or human] are same in all respect but body is the difference getting according to karma.

So, dharma will continue when the body is alive with the soul.

To, keep this Dharma and Shastra emperuman made arrangement to fill the place of a

'Mokshavan' with some other [pitru] devadas.

The Prapannan who did prapatti should also do all karmas but with " Satvika thyagam "

which helps him to keep away from the phapam and punyam of those karma.Conclusion:More than Enough discussions were already done by our elders and well defined the subjects,Swamin Desikan had given letter by letter commentary and clarification [in His Rahashya traya saaram] with which a 'Nastikan' can not question more.

So, we should just obey the words of our Acharyas  with much gratitudes without any more meager discussions to degrade our elders.nvs 

--- On Sun, 21/2/10, A N SRIRAMAN <alnasriraman wrote:

A N SRIRAMAN <alnasriraman RELEVANCE OF PITRU KARAYAMS AFTER PRAPATTI (BHARNYASAM) Date: Sunday, 21 February, 2010, 9:53 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

  Respected SwamisAdiyen is confused with the concept of Prapatti:Is Prapatti and Bharanaysam the same ?It is general understanding that Prapatti (Bharanyasam) means getting Mokshafor the Jeeva after death.If a person (Jeeva) is blessed with Bharanyasam and then attained Acharyan Thiruvadi,   , how relevant is performance of the regular Pitru Kaaryams by the family of this person?Adiyen would be thankful if this doubt could be clarified.Daasana n sriraman

 

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[Guest guest]

srimathe narayanaaya namaha

 

on the topic of the relevance of pitru karyams after prapattti raised in

this group, we may say that pitru karyams are naimithya karma. Just like nithya

karma, naimithya karma is to be followed strictly; no matter prapatti has been

done or not. Prapati do not absolve a jeevathma from following the nithya,

naimithika karmas as per his varnashrama dharma. Kamyartha karma stand on

different footing and are only optional. In fact, if nithya naimithika karmas

are not followed, we add up to our papam, and also our omission will be treated

as going against the anukoola sankalpam. Thus a prapannan has no choice.

 

adiyen

[Guest guest]

srimathe narayanaaya namaha

 

The term " sarva dharman" has very deep meaning and has been extensively dealt with by our acharya sarvabouman swami desikan and others. Our elders in the group may be throwing much light on it. To my limited understanding, "sarva dharman" refers shortly to the various upayams for attaining mukthi. Leave all other upayams and take up saranagathi -surrender to me (krishna) - as the only upayam and I will save you.

 

Lord krishna has not said "sarva karman parithyagya" and only said "sarva dharman" and lot of difference between the two terms. Lord has always emphasised on Karma or "action" to be done and our acharyas have mainly defined ' action ' as doing their nithya and naimithika karamas promptly.

 

Similarly it also does not matter much whether the person for whom we perform pithru karyam is a prapannan or not. This very karyam is ordered on us only and the pithru is prapannan or not is no matter.

 

adiyen dasan

vijayraghavan

 

--- On Thu, 2/25/10, raghunathan r <rraghunathan_in wrote:

raghunathan r <rraghunathan_inRe: Re: RELEVANCE OF PITRU KARAYAMS AFTER PRAPATTI (BHARNYASAM)"padma raghavan" <padmavijiThursday, February 25, 2010, 2:10 PM

 

 

The question is 'When we have been told "Sarva Dharman Parityajya mam ekam Saranam Vraja", why after saranam by Prapanna, he cannot stop doing the Dharma of Nitya Naimittika karma?

 

Raghunathan

 

 

 

padma raghavan <padmaviji Sent: Wed, February 24, 2010 10:14:23 PM Re: RELEVANCE OF PITRU KARAYAMS AFTER PRAPATTI (BHARNYASAM)

 

srimathe narayanaaya namahaon the topic of the relevance of pitru karyams after prapattti raised in this group, we may say that pitru karyams are naimithya karma. Just like nithya karma, naimithya karma is to be followed strictly; no matter prapatti has been done or not. Prapati do not absolve a jeevathma from following the nithya, naimithika karmas as per his varnashrama dharma. Kamyartha karma stand on different footing and are only optional. In fact, if nithya naimithika karmas are not followed, we add up to our papam, and also our omission will be treated as going against the anukoola sankalpam. Thus a prapannan has no choice.adiyen