Guest guest Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 To Shri Vimalkumar: I applaud ur mature comments to the request of Shri Vineeth. However I'd like to comment on a few points u made in ur message: 1. ...'Unfortunately vaishnavism is associated with Iyengars...' - this is a self contradicting statement - to associate Iyengars with brahmins is a recent practice - the term iyengar can be used by any srivaishnava who follows the tenets of vaishnavism - ofcourse as a matter of routine those brahmins who follow srivaishnava philosophy have used the term iyengar for a longtime so much so that the usage of iyengars and brahmins has become synonymous - any practising vaishnava is an iyengar and hence vaishnavism will always be associated with Iyengars!!! 2. 'Iyengars are a brahmin caste' - again to be specific iyengars are not a brahmin caste - brahmins themselves are a caste and those subsect of brahmins who follow vaishnavism often use the surname 'iyengars' 3. 'Unfortunately Sri Vaishnavism has been associated with iyengars...' - i presume here u use the term iyengars and brahmins interchangeably - I beg to differ - Vaishnavism is practiced by many other non brahmins sects - some of whom are orthodox veera vaishnavas - if u have lived in TN in vaishnava 'strongholds' (for want of better usage) - by stronghold i do not mean places near a temple (as invariably vaishnavas there will be brahmins for obvious reasons) nobody identifies vaishnavism with brahminism - ofcourse because brahmins perform vedic rituals alongside and have fine tuned those rituals to vaishnava sampradaya they are relatively more prominently associated - so there is nothing unfortunate about it and one does not have to be defensive about it 4. 'Iyengars....(brahmin caste), and as a religion they are supposed to follow Srivaishnavism, that is all. Srivaishnavism is not a religion - it is a sub part of the Vedanta philosophy which by itself is one of the 'Shad-darshanams' in the Sanatana Dharma - to associate vaishnavism to a religion is inappropriate and could lead to missionary tendencies as evident in other non sanatana dharma religions thereby diluting the significance of the wondeful tenets of vishishtadvaita - also this could in the long run result in conflict with other vedanta/shad darshanas which is not in the best interest of Sanatana Dharma These are academic points - nevertheless i thought i should write about it as i believe one should have a clear view of the actual place vaishnavism holds in the sanatana dharma - as clarity of thought is a first step towards bhakti and mukti I am happy to stand corrected by anyone who feels i might have written something inappropriate. Very Best regards Ramji ramanuja wrote: Ramanuja Sampradayam Messages In This Digest (4 Messages) 1a. Re: Spreading Sri Vaishnava Sampradayam across the world vimalkumar ranganathan 2. Srimaan Trust May Month Activities Srimaan Trust USA 3. .GITA- SRIVELUKKUDI SRI KRISHNAN SWAMINFROM 25.6.07 TO 29.6.07 -UPL sampathkumar M.V. 4. Thirunagari SamprOkshanam B.Senthil kumar View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages 1a. Re: Spreading Sri Vaishnava Sampradayam across the world Posted by: "vimalkumar ranganathan" panardasan panardasan Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:30 pm (PST) SrI:SrimatE rAmAnujAyA namaHSrimad Varavara MunayE namaHDear Sri Vineeth SwAmin,What amazing points!! Thank you a million times for raising these points of concern in this good forum. Unfortunately, Srivaishnavism has been associated with Iyengars which is wrong, in adiyEn's humble opinion. Iyengars are a (brahmin) caste, and as a religion they are supposed to follow Srivaishnavism, that is all. Also, Iyengars are tamil-speaking and hence the confusion. Your example on ISKCON is accurate. I am yet to come across a book in any religion discussing any philosophy even remotely close to the calibre of SwAmi Sri prabhupAdA's Bhagawad Gita or Srimad Bhagawatham. adiyEn humbly requests all the contributing authors in this forum to kindly make it as generic as possible and when it comes to quoting AzhwArs or AchAryAs, kindly take the effort to translate them to simple english. Ofcourse, charity begins at home and adiyEn will try to do so as well.Again, adiyEn applauds you for your very valid, sincere points. dasoham.adiyEn.AzhwAr emperumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE Saranam. Venkata Vineeth K <kvvineeth > wrote:Srimathe Ramanujaya NamahaSrimad Varavara Munaye NamahaSrimannarayana Ramanuja Yatibhyo NamahaOm Asmad Gurubhyo NamahaJai Srimannarayana Pranamams to the feet of all bhagavatas!We have been reading several posts in this groups for quite sometime. We are glad that there are so many scholars and knowledgable people here. Our dasohams to all of you. We have d to the groups, in the hope of learning more of our glorious Sampradayam. But here is our disappointment..Please note the difficulty people might face:1. Many of the non-tamil Sri Vaishnavas do not understand the tamil usage - words, pasurams etc. 2. There is no translation for the pasurams. For ex: You mention 'this is how Alwar experienced Perumal' and pasuram quotation goes... !! And we will never know what Alwar experienced, if you do not translate the Pasurams.3. Except in Tamilnadu, most parts of the country uses the Lunar Calendar. We are unable to match the nakshatram information and we donot understand the month names you use.It will be nice if you use Sanskrit names along with Tamil names.4. Sometimes, when you are requesting donations, the wordings are also in Tamil.. For example "Please donate for the Tirumadil..." So what is Tirumadil ?We very well understand that Tamil is an integral part of Sri Vaishnava Sampradayam. But Sri Vaishnavam cannot be only for Tamil speakers/Tamil speaking Sri Vaishnavas! Many of us would want to learn Tamil to understand, experience the words - no doubt. But it cannot happen if you dont use Tamil with equivalent English/Sanskrit words..So, in the groups, it is better to have Tamil words with equivalent English/Sanskrit words..It is fact that English is a lowly language when it comes to expressing the Alwars feelings, experiences, etc.. But still, since it is the chosen language of the groups, it will be nice to write postings not only for ardent Sri vaishnavas but also for commoners alike..including Americans etc You can help interested devotees by this way:Try to put the English/Sanskrit translation in brackets or vice-versa. Many like us are more familiar with Sanskrit terminologies, since it is more widely used in many parts of India and the world, than Tamil. So whenever there are any Sanskrit words, just try not to Tamilize them.. For example: "Avatarika (introduction) can be kept as Avatarika only instead of making it a "avatarikai" ! , Pratishta and not Pratishtai.Rama and not Ramar, or Chakravarthi Tirumagan ? For Swamy's names like Ramar, Krishnan...you could use them, but just put the actual name too in brackets...or vice-versa.Put the Alwars, Acharyas Sanskrit names too in brackets...If ISKCON had stuck to Bengali, it would have been nowhere now ! Since Ramanuja Sampradayam has to spread everywhere in this world - as teachers, and scholars, you carry more responsibility than the seekers. This way you can make everyone feel part of this great Sampradayam..We sincerely pray and beg your pardon again and again at your feet for any offences committed...Bhagavat Bhaagavata Acharya Kainkarya Rupena,Adiyen Venkata Vineeth Ramanuja DasaAdiyen Deepa Ramanuja DasiJai Srimannarayana!Alwar Emperumanaar Jeeyar Thiruvadigale Saranam!Sri Chinnajeeyar Swamiji Thiruvadigale Saranam!"Surrender to SRIMANNARAYANA! Serve HIM and HIS true devotees (Bha:gavatas) with intense devotion" oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Search. Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (2) 2. Srimaan Trust May Month Activities Posted by: "Srimaan Trust USA" srimaantrustusa Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:31 pm (PST) Sri:Srimathe Ramanujaya NamahaPriya Arangan Adiyar,Pray the Divine Couple of Srirangam Bless you, Your Family and all your Wellwishers.We are Volunteers of Srimaan Trust.The public address for Bhattar Kuzham gallery is:http://parasarabhattar8220.fotoblog.co.uk<http://parasarabhattar8220.fotoblog.co.uk/>Following is the link site (May Month Activities - photos withdescription)http://parasarabhattar8220.fotoblog.co.uk/c1314558.html<http://parasarabhattar8220.fotoblog.co.uk/c1245155.html><http://parasarabhattar8220.fotoblog.co.uk/c1294264.html>* *You may also share this link with ur friends & relatives.-- -- ever-in-divine-service,KAINKARYA SREESrimaan Trust (Srimaan Bhattar Kuzham)http://parasarabhattar8220.fotoblog.co.uk/Postal address:231 South Uttara St,Srirangam, Trichy-620 006Tamil Nadu, INDIA Ph 0431-2431109Email:India - srimaantrust USA - srimaantrustusa Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (1) 3. .GITA- SRIVELUKKUDI SRI KRISHNAN SWAMINFROM 25.6.07 TO 29.6.07 -UPL Posted by: "sampathkumar M.V." sampathkumar003 sampathkumar003 Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:32 pm (PST) Dear Srivaishnavas,Sri TVG SIR as usual uploaded episodes of Gita of Sri VekukkudiSwamin for the period from 25-06-2007 to 29-06-2007 as a .zip file toin his folder at Sl No:247 The link :http://www.sangeet apriya.org.Adiyen Dasan,Sampathkumar,Hyd Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (1) 4. Thirunagari SamprOkshanam Posted by: "B.Senthil kumar" b_senthil2002 b_senthil2002 Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:34 pm (PST) SrI:|Dear Sri VaishnavAs, adiyEn namaskArams:AdiyEn attended the samprOkshanam of Thirunagari Sri Vayalaalimanavaala perumal and Sri Kumudavalli naachiyaar samEtha ThirumangaiAzhwar sannidhi. Watch the picture of Thirumangai azhwar andrajagopuram during samprOkshanam on June 25th. Also the Vaikasivisakam at THiru Arimeya Vinnagaram is uploaded at the following blog.http://thirunangur.blogspot.com/adiyEnsenthil.b Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity 2 New MembersVisit Your Group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Dear all, AdiyEn DAsan. Our objective is to get together all the Vaishnavas and strengthen our unity in promoting the values. Healthy comments are welcome, however we should not enter into arguments on sects and the like - this would be totally contradicting what Shri Ethirajar desired. The reference to Alwar-related articles coming in Tamil terms cannot be blamed - it so happens that all the Alwars produced their classics in that language, notwithstanding the fact many of them were scholars in Sanskrit and other languages. The '4000' Divya Prabhandam in only in Tamil, though there have been efforts to translate them in English. The Prabandhams are known as the Tamil Vedic Scripts, as compared to the great Vedics of Rig/Yajur/Sama/Atharva, all in Sanskrit. To really enjoy the benefit of the Prabandhams, it is sincerely requested that those who cannot understand the language please make an effort to learn. At the same time, surely those who write the Alwar-related articles will make their efforts to put in equivalent English translation - not easy job mind you. Many thanks and respects to all DAsan On 6/30/07, Ramji Govindarajan <ramji_iyengar wrote: To Shri Vimalkumar: I applaud ur mature comments to the request of Shri Vineeth. However I'd like to comment on a few points u made in ur message: 1. ...'Unfortunately vaishnavism is associated with Iyengars...' - this is a self contradicting statement - to associate Iyengars with brahmins is a recent practice - the term iyengar can be used by any srivaishnava who follows the tenets of vaishnavism - ofcourse as a matter of routine those brahmins who follow srivaishnava philosophy have used the term iyengar for a longtime so much so that the usage of iyengars and brahmins has become synonymous - any practising vaishnava is an iyengar and hence vaishnavism will always be associated with Iyengars!!! 2. 'Iyengars are a brahmin caste' - again to be specific iyengars are not a brahmin caste - brahmins themselves are a caste and those subsect of brahmins who follow vaishnavism often use the surname 'iyengars' 3. 'Unfortunately Sri Vaishnavism has been associated with iyengars...' - i presume here u use the term iyengars and brahmins interchangeably - I beg to differ - Vaishnavism is practiced by many other non brahmins sects - some of whom are orthodox veera vaishnavas - if u have lived in TN in vaishnava 'strongholds' (for want of better usage) - by stronghold i do not mean places near a temple (as invariably vaishnavas there will be brahmins for obvious reasons) nobody identifies vaishnavism with brahminism - ofcourse because brahmins perform vedic rituals alongside and have fine tuned those rituals to vaishnava sampradaya they are relatively more prominently associated - so there is nothing unfortunate about it and one does not have to be defensive about it 4. 'Iyengars....(brahmin caste), and as a religion they are supposed to follow Srivaishnavism, that is all. Srivaishnavism is not a religion - it is a sub part of the Vedanta philosophy which by itself is one of the 'Shad-darshanams' in the Sanatana Dharma - to associate vaishnavism to a religion is inappropriate and could lead to missionary tendencies as evident in other non sanatana dharma religions thereby diluting the significance of the wondeful tenets of vishishtadvaita - also this could in the long run result in conflict with other vedanta/shad darshanas which is not in the best interest of Sanatana Dharma These are academic points - nevertheless i thought i should write about it as i believe one should have a clear view of the actual place vaishnavism holds in the sanatana dharma - as clarity of thought is a first step towards bhakti and mukti I am happy to stand corrected by anyone who feels i might have written something inappropriate. Very Best regards Ramji ramanuja wrote: Ramanuja Sampradayam Messages In This Digest (4 Messages) 1a. Re: Spreading Sri Vaishnava Sampradayam across the world vimalkumar ranganathan 2. Srimaan Trust May Month Activities Srimaan Trust USA 3. ..GITA- SRIVELUKKUDI SRI KRISHNAN SWAMINFROM 25.6.07 TO 29.6.07 -UPL sampathkumar M.V. 4. Thirunagari SamprOkshanam B.Senthil kumar View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages 1a. Re: Spreading Sri Vaishnava Sampradayam across the world Posted by: " vimalkumar ranganathan " panardasan panardasan Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:30 pm (PST) SrI:SrimatE rAmAnujAyA namaHSrimad Varavara MunayE namaHDear Sri Vineeth SwAmin,What amazing points!! Thank you a million times for raising these points of concern in this good forum. Unfortunately, Srivaishnavism has been associated with Iyengars which is wrong, in adiyEn's humble opinion. Iyengars are a (brahmin) caste, and as a religion they are supposed to follow Srivaishnavism, that is all. Also, Iyengars are tamil-speaking and hence the confusion. Your example on ISKCON is accurate. I am yet to come across a book in any religion discussing any philosophy even remotely close to the calibre of SwAmi Sri prabhupAdA's Bhagawad Gita or Srimad Bhagawatham. adiyEn humbly requests all the contributing authors in this forum to kindly make it as generic as possible and when it comes to quoting AzhwArs or AchAryAs, kindly take the effort to translate them to simple english. Ofcourse, charity begins at home and adiyEn will try to do so as well. Again, adiyEn applauds you for your very valid, sincere points. dasoham.adiyEn.AzhwAr emperumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE Saranam. Venkata Vineeth K < kvvineeth wrote:Srimathe Ramanujaya NamahaSrimad Varavara Munaye NamahaSrimannarayana Ramanuja Yatibhyo NamahaOm Asmad Gurubhyo NamahaJai Srimannarayana Pranamams to the feet of all bhagavatas! We have been reading several posts in this groups for quite sometime. We are glad that there are so many scholars and knowledgable people here. Our dasohams to all of you. We have d to the groups, in the hope of learning more of our glorious Sampradayam. But here is our disappointment.. Please note the difficulty people might face:1. Many of the non-tamil Sri Vaishnavas do not understand the tamil usage - words, pasurams etc. 2. There is no translation for the pasurams. For ex: You mention 'this is how Alwar experienced Perumal' and pasuram quotation goes... !! And we will never know what Alwar experienced, if you do not translate the Pasurams.3. Except in Tamilnadu, most parts of the country uses the Lunar Calendar. We are unable to match the nakshatram information and we donot understand the month names you use. It will be nice if you use Sanskrit names along with Tamil names.4. Sometimes, when you are requesting donations, the wordings are also in Tamil.. For example " Please donate for the Tirumadil... " So what is Tirumadil ? We very well understand that Tamil is an integral part of Sri Vaishnava Sampradayam. But Sri Vaishnavam cannot be only for Tamil speakers/Tamil speaking Sri Vaishnavas! Many of us would want to learn Tamil to understand, experience the words - no doubt. But it cannot happen if you dont use Tamil with equivalent English/Sanskrit words.. So, in the groups, it is better to have Tamil words with equivalent English/Sanskrit words..It is fact that English is a lowly language when it comes to expressing the Alwars feelings, experiences, etc.. But still, since it is the chosen language of the groups, it will be nice to write postings not only for ardent Sri vaishnavas but also for commoners alike..including Americans etc You can help interested devotees by this way: Try to put the English/Sanskrit translation in brackets or vice-versa. Many like us are more familiar with Sanskrit terminologies, since it is more widely used in many parts of India and the world, than Tamil. So whenever there are any Sanskrit words, just try not to Tamilize them.. For example: " Avatarika (introduction) can be kept as Avatarika only instead of making it a " avatarikai " ! , Pratishta and not Pratishtai. Rama and not Ramar, or Chakravarthi Tirumagan ? For Swamy's names like Ramar, Krishnan...you could use them, but just put the actual name too in brackets...or vice-versa.Put the Alwars, Acharyas Sanskrit names too in brackets... If ISKCON had stuck to Bengali, it would have been nowhere now ! Since Ramanuja Sampradayam has to spread everywhere in this world - as teachers, and scholars, you carry more responsibility than the seekers. This way you can make everyone feel part of this great Sampradayam..We sincerely pray and beg your pardon again and again at your feet for any offences committed...Bhagavat Bhaagavata Acharya Kainkarya Rupena, Adiyen Venkata Vineeth Ramanuja DasaAdiyen Deepa Ramanuja DasiJai Srimannarayana!Alwar Emperumanaar Jeeyar Thiruvadigale Saranam!Sri Chinnajeeyar Swamiji Thiruvadigale Saranam! " Surrender to SRIMANNARAYANA! Serve HIM and HIS true devotees (Bha:gavatas) with intense devotion " oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Search. Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (2) 2. Srimaan Trust May Month Activities Posted by: " Srimaan Trust USA " srimaantrustusa Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:31 pm (PST) Sri:Srimathe Ramanujaya NamahaPriya Arangan Adiyar,Pray the Divine Couple of Srirangam Bless you, Your Family and all your Wellwishers.We are Volunteers of Srimaan Trust.The public address for Bhattar Kuzham gallery is: http://parasarabhattar8220.fotoblog.co.uk< http://parasarabhattar8220.fotoblog.co.uk/>Following is the link site (May Month Activities - photos withdescription) http://parasarabhattar8220.fotoblog.co.uk/c1314558.html<http://parasarabhattar8220.fotoblog.co.uk/c1245155.html ><http://parasarabhattar8220.fotoblog.co.uk/c1294264.html>* * You may also share this link with ur friends & relatives.-- -- ever-in-divine-service,KAINKARYA SREESrimaan Trust (Srimaan Bhattar Kuzham) http://parasarabhattar8220.fotoblog.co.uk/Postal address:231 South Uttara St,Srirangam, Trichy-620 006Tamil Nadu, INDIA Ph 0431-2431109Email:India - srimaantrustUSA - srimaantrustusa Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (1) 3. ..GITA- SRIVELUKKUDI SRI KRISHNAN SWAMINFROM 25.6.07 TO 29.6.07 -UPL Posted by: " sampathkumar M.V. " sampathkumar003 sampathkumar003 Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:32 pm (PST) Dear Srivaishnavas,Sri TVG SIR as usual uploaded episodes of Gita of Sri VekukkudiSwamin for the period from 25-06-2007 to 29-06-2007 as a .zip file toin his folder at Sl No:247 The link : http://www.sangeet apriya.org.Adiyen Dasan,Sampathkumar,Hyd Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (1) 4. Thirunagari SamprOkshanam Posted by: " B.Senthil kumar " b_senthil2002 b_senthil2002 Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:34 pm (PST) SrI:|Dear Sri VaishnavAs, adiyEn namaskArams:AdiyEn attended the samprOkshanam of Thirunagari Sri Vayalaalimanavaala perumal and Sri Kumudavalli naachiyaar samEtha ThirumangaiAzhwar sannidhi. Watch the picture of Thirumangai azhwar and rajagopuram during samprOkshanam on June 25th. Also the Vaikasivisakam at THiru Arimeya Vinnagaram is uploaded at the following blog. http://thirunangur.blogspot.com/adiyEnsenthil.b Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity 2 New Members Visit Your Group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 I would beg to add to this, Sri Vasudevan. A face-level understanding of Azhwar Arulicchyeyal cannot serve as the be-all and end-all of Sri Vaishnavam. And while it does flourish when applied in Sri Vaishnava thought, I have learned from my mentors that the deeper message of the Azhwars, when viewed on a larger scale, are really universal and quite practical in nature. Key to this understanding are 4 basic points - 1. That the Universe is controlled and permeated by the presence of One True Supreme Being - whom the Azhwars call Naranan or Narayana 2. The Supreme Being has innumerable virtuous and admirable qualities, the most sought after being His Mercy and Grace which He provides to everyone in a way that is best suited to His Needs and each person's good. 3. The True Nature of each and every one of us is that - while Narayana is independent - our nature is that we are eternally dependent upon Him, and are constantly under the Umbrella of His Unconditional Grace and Protection, which He provides to us with no expectation or prerequisite. 4. Knowing that He is there, that His nature is compassionate, and that we are all under His loving protection, there is nothing more that we can do other than to love and care for another as an expresion of our Love to Him. Such an attitude is brought those He feels are ready for it, and can best be desrcibed as vinayam in Telugu/Sanskrit. In Tamil, one great expression of this ideal is " adimai " , resigning oneself to the beck and call of the Supreme Being and all those who are His, namely his bhagavathas. I hope this helps further this interesting conversation. adiyen .. ramanuja , " Raghavachary Vasudevan " <mjrvasu wrote: > > Dear all, > > AdiyEn DAsan. > > Our objective is to get together all the Vaishnavas and strengthen our unity > in promoting the values. Healthy comments are welcome, however we should > not enter into arguments on sects and the like - this would be totally > contradicting what Shri Ethirajar desired. > > The reference to Alwar-related articles coming in Tamil terms cannot be > blamed - it so happens that all the Alwars produced their classics in that > language, notwithstanding the fact many of them were scholars in Sanskrit > and other languages. The '4000' Divya Prabhandam in only in Tamil, though > there have been efforts to translate them in English. The Prabandhams are > known as the Tamil Vedic Scripts, as compared to the great Vedics of > Rig/Yajur/Sama/Atharva, all in Sanskrit. To really enjoy the benefit of the > Prabandhams, it is sincerely requested that those who cannot understand the > language please make an effort to learn. > > At the same time, surely those who write the Alwar-related articles will > make their efforts to put in equivalent English translation - not easy job > mind you. > > Many thanks and respects to all > > DAsan > > > On 6/30/07, Ramji Govindarajan <ramji_iyengar wrote: > > > > To Shri Vimalkumar: > > > > I applaud ur mature comments to the request of Shri Vineeth. > > > > However I'd like to comment on a few points u made in ur message: > > > > 1. ...'Unfortunately vaishnavism is associated with Iyengars...' - this is > > a self contradicting statement - to associate Iyengars with brahmins is a > > recent practice - the term iyengar can be used by any srivaishnava who > > follows the tenets of vaishnavism - ofcourse as a matter of routine those > > brahmins who follow srivaishnava philosophy have used the term iyengar for a > > longtime so much so that the usage of iyengars and brahmins has > > become synonymous - any practising vaishnava is an iyengar and hence > > vaishnavism will always be associated with Iyengars!!! > > > > 2. 'Iyengars are a brahmin caste' - again to be specific iyengars are not > > a brahmin caste - brahmins themselves are a caste and those subsect of > > brahmins who follow vaishnavism often use the surname 'iyengars' > > > > 3. 'Unfortunately Sri Vaishnavism has been associated with iyengars...' - > > i presume here u use the term iyengars and brahmins interchangeably - I beg > > to differ - Vaishnavism is practiced by many other non brahmins sects - some > > of whom are orthodox veera vaishnavas - if u have lived in TN in vaishnava > > 'strongholds' (for want of better usage) - by stronghold i do not mean > > places near a temple (as invariably vaishnavas there will be brahmins for > > obvious reasons) nobody identifies vaishnavism with brahminism - ofcourse > > because brahmins perform vedic rituals alongside and have fine tuned those > > rituals to vaishnava sampradaya they are relatively more prominently > > associated - so there is nothing unfortunate about it and one does not have > > to be defensive about it > > > > 4. 'Iyengars....(brahmin caste), and as a religion they are supposed to > > follow Srivaishnavism, that is all. > > > > Srivaishnavism is not a religion - it is a sub part of the Vedanta > > philosophy which by itself is one of the 'Shad-darshanams' in the Sanatana > > Dharma - to associate vaishnavism to a religion is inappropriate and could > > lead to missionary tendencies as evident in other non sanatana dharma > > religions thereby diluting the significance of the wondeful tenets of > > vishishtadvaita - also this could in the long run result in conflict with > > other vedanta/shad darshanas which is not in the best interest of Sanatana > > Dharma > > > > These are academic points - nevertheless i thought i should write about it > > as i believe one should have a clear view of the actual place vaishnavism > > holds in the sanatana dharma - as clarity of thought is a first step towards > > bhakti and mukti > > > > I am happy to stand corrected by anyone who feels i might have written > > something inappropriate. > > > > Very Best regards > > > > Ramji > > > > *ramanuja * wrote: > > > > Ramanuja Sampradayam > > <ramanuja;_ylc=X3oDMTJkODgyOWtrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGd\ ycElkAzIwNjkyNDUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTcxMTM0BHNlYwNoZHIEc2xrA2hwaARzdGltZQMxMTgzMTk\ 3NDc5> > > Messages In This Digest (4 Messages) 1a. Re: Spreading Sri Vaishnava > > Sampradayam across the world<http://us.f516.mail./ym/Compose?box=Inbox & Mid=576_8700289_556664_\ 2061_9592_0_85067_31376_2906733285 & inc= & Search= & YY=10903 & y5beta=yes & y5beta=yes & o\ rder=down & sort=date & pos=0#1a> vimalkumar ranganathan 2. > > Srimaan Trust May Month Activities<http://us.f516.mail./ym/Compose?box=Inbox & Mid=576_8700289_55\ 6664_2061_9592_0_85067_31376_2906733285 & inc= & Search= & YY=10903 & y5beta=yes & y5beta=\ yes & order=down & sort=date & pos=0#2> Srimaan Trust USA 3. > > .GITA- SRIVELUKKUDI SRI KRISHNAN SWAMINFROM 25.6.07 TO 29.6.07 -UPL<http://us.f516.mail./ym/Compose?box=Inbox & Mid=576_8700289_556664_2\ 061_9592_0_85067_31376_2906733285 & inc= & Search= & YY=10903 & y5beta=yes & y5beta=yes & or\ der=down & sort=date & pos=0#3> sampathkumar > > M.V. 4. Thirunagari SamprOkshanam<http://us.f516.mail./ym/Compose?box=Inbox & Mid=576_8700289\ _556664_2061_9592_0_85067_31376_2906733285 & inc= & Search= & YY=10903 & y5beta=yes & y5be\ ta=yes & order=down & sort=date & pos=0#4> > > B.Senthil kumar > > View All Topics<ramanuja/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZ3QxNmRiBF9T\ Azk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzIwNjkyNDUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTcxMTM0BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNhdHBj\ BHN0aW1lAzExODMxOTc0Nzk-?xm=1 & m=p & tidx=1>| Create > > New Topic<ramanuja/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmaTVjMGlrBF9TAzk3M\ zU5NzE1BGdycElkAzIwNjkyNDUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTcxMTM0BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNudHBjBHN0a\ W1lAzExODMxOTc0Nzk-> > > Messages 1a. Re: Spreading Sri Vaishnava Sampradayam across the world > > <ramanuja/message/9056;_ylc=X3oDMTJxYzgzZnFnBF9TAz\ k3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzIwNjkyNDUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTcxMTM0BG1zZ0lkAzkwNTYEc2VjA2Rtc2\ cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzE5NzQ3OQ--> Posted > > by: " vimalkumar ranganathan " panardasan > > <panardasan?Subject=+Re%3A%20Spreading%20Sri%20Vaishnava%20Sampradayam%20acr\ oss%20the%20world> > > panardasan <http://profiles./panardasan> Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:30 pm > > (PST) SrI: > > SrimatE rAmAnujAyA namaH > > Srimad Varavara MunayE namaH > > > > Dear Sri Vineeth SwAmin, > > What amazing points!! Thank you a million times for raising these points > > of concern in this good forum. Unfortunately, Srivaishnavism has been > > associated with Iyengars which is wrong, in adiyEn's humble opinion. > > Iyengars are a (brahmin) caste, and as a religion they are supposed to > > follow Srivaishnavism, that is all. Also, Iyengars are tamil-speaking and > > hence the confusion. > > > > Your example on ISKCON is accurate. I am yet to come across a book in any > > religion discussing any philosophy even remotely close to the calibre of > > SwAmi Sri prabhupAdA's Bhagawad Gita or Srimad Bhagawatham. > > > > adiyEn humbly requests all the contributing authors in this forum to > > kindly make it as generic as possible and when it comes to quoting AzhwArs > > or AchAryAs, kindly take the effort to translate them to simple english. > > Ofcourse, charity begins at home and adiyEn will try to do so as well. > > > > Again, adiyEn applauds you for your very valid, sincere points. > > > > dasoham. > > > > adiyEn. > > > > AzhwAr emperumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE Saranam. > > > > Venkata Vineeth K <kvvineeth <kvvineeth%40>> wrote: > > Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha > > Srimad Varavara Munaye Namaha > > Srimannarayana Ramanuja Yatibhyo Namaha > > Om Asmad Gurubhyo Namaha > > Jai Srimannarayana Pranamams to the feet of all bhagavatas! > > > > We have been reading several posts in this groups for quite sometime. We > > are glad that there are so many scholars and knowledgable people here. Our > > dasohams to all of you. > > > > We have d to the groups, in the hope of learning more of our > > glorious Sampradayam. But here is our disappointment.. > > > > Please note the difficulty people might face: > > 1. Many of the non-tamil Sri Vaishnavas do not understand the tamil usage > > - words, pasurams etc. > > > > 2. There is no translation for the pasurams. > > For ex: You mention 'this is how Alwar experienced Perumal' and pasuram > > quotation goes... !! > > And we will never know what Alwar experienced, if you do not translate the > > Pasurams. > > > > 3. Except in Tamilnadu, most parts of the country uses the Lunar Calendar. > > We are unable to match the nakshatram information and we donot understand > > the month names you use. > > It will be nice if you use Sanskrit names along with Tamil names. > > > > 4. Sometimes, when you are requesting donations, the wordings are also in > > Tamil.. For example " Please donate for the Tirumadil... " So what is > > Tirumadil ? > > > > We very well understand that Tamil is an integral part of Sri Vaishnava > > Sampradayam. But Sri Vaishnavam cannot be only for Tamil speakers/Tamil > > speaking Sri Vaishnavas! > > Many of us would want to learn Tamil to understand, experience the words - > > no doubt. But it cannot happen if you dont use Tamil with equivalent > > English/Sanskrit words.. > > > > So, in the groups, it is better to have Tamil words with equivalent > > English/Sanskrit words.. > > > > It is fact that English is a lowly language when it comes to expressing > > the Alwars feelings, experiences, etc.. > > But still, since it is the chosen language of the groups, it will be nice > > to write postings not only for ardent Sri vaishnavas but also for commoners > > alike..including Americans etc > > > > You can help interested devotees by this way: > > Try to put the English/Sanskrit translation in brackets or vice-versa. > > Many like us are more familiar with Sanskrit terminologies, since it is > > more widely used in many parts of India and the world, than Tamil. So > > whenever there are any Sanskrit words, just try not to Tamilize them.. For > > example: " Avatarika (introduction) can be kept as Avatarika only instead of > > making it a " avatarikai " ! , Pratishta and not Pratishtai. > > > > Rama and not Ramar, or Chakravarthi Tirumagan ? > > For Swamy's names like Ramar, Krishnan...you could use them, but just put > > the actual name too in brackets...or vice-versa. > > Put the Alwars, Acharyas Sanskrit names too in brackets... > > > > If ISKCON had stuck to Bengali, it would have been nowhere now ! > > > > Since Ramanuja Sampradayam has to spread everywhere in this world - as > > teachers, and scholars, you carry more responsibility than the seekers. > > > > This way you can make everyone feel part of this great Sampradayam.. > > > > We sincerely pray and beg your pardon again and again at your feet for any > > offences committed... > > > > > > > > Bhagavat Bhaagavata Acharya Kainkarya Rupena, > > Adiyen Venkata Vineeth Ramanuja Dasa > > Adiyen Deepa Ramanuja Dasi > > > > Jai Srimannarayana! > > Alwar Emperumanaar Jeeyar Thiruvadigale Saranam! > > Sri Chinnajeeyar Swamiji Thiruvadigale Saranam! > > > > > > " Surrender to SRIMANNARAYANA! Serve HIM and HIS true devotees > > (Bha:gavatas) with intense devotion " > > > > > > oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web > > links. > > > > > > Luggage? GPS? Comic books? > > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Search. > > Back to top > > <http://us.f516.mail./ym/Compose?box=Inbox & Mid=576_8700289_556664_2061_\ 9592_0_85067_31376_2906733285 & inc= & Search= & YY=10903 & y5beta=yes & y5beta=yes & order=\ down & sort=date & pos=0#toc> > > Reply to sender > > <panardasan?Subject=Re%3A%20Spreading%20Sri%20Vaishnava%20Sampradayam%20acro\ ss%20the%20world>| > > Reply to group > > <ramanuja ?Subject=+Re%3A%20Spreading%20Sri%20Vaishnava%20Samprad\ ayam%20across%20the%20world>| > > Reply via web post > > <ramanuja/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcjg5a24zBF9TAzk3MzU5Nz\ E1BGdycElkAzIwNjkyNDUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTcxMTM0BG1zZ0lkAzkwNTYEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3\ JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzE5NzQ3OQ--?act=reply & messageNum=9056> > > Messages in this topic > > <ramanuja/message/9054;_ylc=X3oDMTM1M2Q4NGx2BF9TAz\ k3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzIwNjkyNDUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTcxMTM0BG1zZ0lkAzkwNTYEc2VjA2Rtc2\ cEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzE5NzQ3OQR0cGNJZAM5MDU0>(2) > > > > 2. Srimaan Trust May Month Activities > > <ramanuja/message/9057;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNTk2Y2hnBF9TAz\ k3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzIwNjkyNDUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTcxMTM0BG1zZ0lkAzkwNTcEc2VjA2Rtc2\ cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzE5NzQ3OQ--> Posted > > by: " Srimaan Trust USA " srimaantrustusa > > <srimaantrustusa?Subject=+Re%3ASrimaan%20Trust%20May%20Month%20Activities> Fri > > Jun 29, 2007 1:31 pm (PST) Sri: > > Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha > > > > Priya Arangan Adiyar, > > > > Pray the Divine Couple of Srirangam Bless you, Your Family and all your > > Well > > wishers. > > > > We are Volunteers of Srimaan Trust. > > > > The public address for Bhattar Kuzham gallery is: > > http://parasarabhattar8220.fotoblog.co.uk > > <http://parasarabhattar8220.fotoblog.co.uk/> > > > > Following is the link site (May Month Activities - photos with > > description) > > http://parasarabhattar8220.fotoblog.co.uk/c1314558.html > > <http://parasarabhattar8220.fotoblog.co.uk/c1245155.html> > > <http://parasarabhattar8220.fotoblog.co.uk/c1294264.html> > > * * > > You may also share this link with ur friends & relatives. > > > > -- > > > > -- > > ever-in-divine-service, > > KAINKARYA SREE > > Srimaan Trust (Srimaan Bhattar Kuzham) > > http://parasarabhattar8220.fotoblog.co.uk/ > > Postal address: > > 231 South Uttara St, > > Srirangam, Trichy-620 006 > > Tamil Nadu, INDIA Ph 0431-2431109 > > Email: > > India - srimaantrust <srimaantrust%40gmail.com> > > USA - srimaantrustusa <srimaantrustusa%40gmail.com> > > > > Back to top > > <http://us.f516.mail./ym/Compose?box=Inbox & Mid=576_8700289_556664_2061_\ 9592_0_85067_31376_2906733285 & inc= & Search= & YY=10903 & y5beta=yes & y5beta=yes & order=\ down & sort=date & pos=0#toc> > > Reply to sender > > <srimaantrustusa?Subject=Re%3ASrimaan%20Trust%20May%20Month%20Activities>| > > Reply to group > > <ramanuja ?Subject=+Re%3ASrimaan%20Trust%20May%20Month%20Activiti\ es>| > > Reply via web post > > <ramanuja/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxaGtyOTUwBF9TAzk3MzU5Nz\ E1BGdycElkAzIwNjkyNDUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTcxMTM0BG1zZ0lkAzkwNTcEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3\ JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzE5NzQ3OQ--?act=reply & messageNum=9057> > > Messages in this topic > > <ramanuja/message/9057;_ylc=X3oDMTM1bWl0ZzVzBF9TAz\ k3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzIwNjkyNDUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTcxMTM0BG1zZ0lkAzkwNTcEc2VjA2Rtc2\ cEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzE5NzQ3OQR0cGNJZAM5MDU3>(1) > > > > 3. .GITA- SRIVELUKKUDI SRI KRISHNAN SWAMINFROM 25.6.07 TO 29.6.07 -UPL > > <ramanuja/message/9058;_ylc=X3oDMTJxaWtjcGV1BF9TAz\ k3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzIwNjkyNDUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTcxMTM0BG1zZ0lkAzkwNTgEc2VjA2Rtc2\ cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzE5NzQ3OQ--> Posted > > by: " sampathkumar M.V. " sampathkumar003 > > <sampathkumar003?Subject=+Re%3A%2EGITA-%20SRIVELUKKUDI%20SRI%20KRISHNAN%20%2\ 0SWAMINFROM%2025%2E6%2E07%20TO%2029%2E6%2E07%20-UPL> > > sampathkumar003 <http://profiles./sampathkumar003> Fri > > Jun 29, 2007 1:32 pm (PST) Dear Srivaishnavas, > > > > Sri TVG SIR as usual uploaded episodes of Gita of Sri Vekukkudi > > Swamin for the period from 25-06-2007 to 29-06-2007 as a .zip file to > > in his folder at Sl No:247 The link :http://www.sangeet apriya.org. > > > > Adiyen Dasan, > > Sampathkumar, > > Hyd > > > > > > Back to top > > <http://us.f516.mail./ym/Compose?box=Inbox & Mid=576_8700289_556664_2061_\ 9592_0_85067_31376_2906733285 & inc= & Search= & YY=10903 & y5beta=yes & y5beta=yes & order=\ down & sort=date & pos=0#toc> > > Reply to sender > > <sampathkumar003?Subject=Re%3A%2EGITA-%20SRIVELUKKUDI%20SRI%20KRISHNAN%20%20\ SWAMINFROM%2025%2E6%2E07%20TO%2029%2E6%2E07%20-UPL>| > > Reply to group > > <ramanuja ?Subject=+Re%3A%2EGITA-%20SRIVELUKKUDI%20SRI%20KRISHNAN\ %20%20SWAMINFROM%2025%2E6%2E07%20TO%2029%2E6%2E07%20-UPL>| > > Reply via web post > > <ramanuja/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxYTRmajQ3BF9TAzk3MzU5Nz\ E1BGdycElkAzIwNjkyNDUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTcxMTM0BG1zZ0lkAzkwNTgEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3\ JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzE5NzQ3OQ--?act=reply & messageNum=9058> > > Messages in this topic > > <ramanuja/message/9058;_ylc=X3oDMTM1Y2VjMjA4BF9TAz\ k3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzIwNjkyNDUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTcxMTM0BG1zZ0lkAzkwNTgEc2VjA2Rtc2\ cEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzE5NzQ3OQR0cGNJZAM5MDU4>(1) > > > > 4. Thirunagari SamprOkshanam > > <ramanuja/message/9059;_ylc=X3oDMTJxOGxtMnZpBF9TAz\ k3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzIwNjkyNDUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTcxMTM0BG1zZ0lkAzkwNTkEc2VjA2Rtc2\ cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzE5NzQ3OQ--> Posted > > by: " B.Senthil kumar " b_senthil2002 > > <b_senthil2002?Subject=+Re%3AThirunagari%20SamprOkshanam> b_senthil2002 > > <http://profiles./b_senthil2002> Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:34 pm (PST) > > SrI:| > > Dear Sri VaishnavAs, adiyEn namaskArams: > > AdiyEn attended the samprOkshanam of Thirunagari Sri Vayalaali > > manavaala perumal and Sri Kumudavalli naachiyaar samEtha Thirumangai > > Azhwar sannidhi. Watch the picture of Thirumangai azhwar and > > rajagopuram during samprOkshanam on June 25th. Also the Vaikasi > > visakam at THiru Arimeya Vinnagaram is uploaded at the following blog. > > > > http://thirunangur.blogspot.com/ > > > > adiyEn > > senthil.b > > > > > > Back to top > > <http://us.f516.mail./ym/Compose?box=Inbox & Mid=576_8700289_556664_2061_\ 9592_0_85067_31376_2906733285 & inc= & Search= & YY=10903 & y5beta=yes & y5beta=yes & order=\ down & sort=date & pos=0#toc> > > Reply to sender > > <b_senthil2002?Subject=Re%3AThirunagari%20SamprOkshanam>| Reply > > to group > > <ramanuja ?Subject=+Re%3AThirunagari%20SamprOkshanam>| Reply > > via web post > > <ramanuja/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxaHU4cm04BF9TAzk3MzU5Nz\ E1BGdycElkAzIwNjkyNDUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTcxMTM0BG1zZ0lkAzkwNTkEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3\ JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzE5NzQ3OQ--?act=reply & messageNum=9059> > > Messages in this topic > > <ramanuja/message/9059;_ylc=X3oDMTM1ZHUxcmJ1BF9TAz\ k3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzIwNjkyNDUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTcxMTM0BG1zZ0lkAzkwNTkEc2VjA2Rtc2\ cEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzE5NzQ3OQR0cGNJZAM5MDU5>(1) > > > > Recent Activity > > > > - 2 > > New Members<ramanuja/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmM2MyZDJwBF9T\ Azk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzIwNjkyNDUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTcxMTM0BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJz\ BHN0aW1lAzExODMxOTc0Nzk-> > > > > Visit Your Group > > <ramanuja;_ylc=X3oDMTJlczZndm83BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGd\ ycElkAzIwNjkyNDUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTcxMTM0BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzE\ 5NzQ3OQ--> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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