Guest guest Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Ramanujan Iyengar <iyengar.r Sent by: ramanujank 02/16/2009 10:28 PM To kamini1956 cc Subject REG Query Pranams, Your query is one that has the potential to stimulate a lot of interesting qualities of the Lord. All Jivas in this world try to break free of their bondage of their own accord. They have 5 sensory and 5 motor services which are available to them (courtesy of course, Sriman Narayana which we do not realise until it is too late). By virtue of these possesions, we assimilate many ways in which to solve our problems. We think that we can manage to tackle all our tough situations without any help from external sources. This is a form of vanity. Something which happens to us unbeknown to us. There is always this undercurrent of assuredness and self-proclaimed puissance which we get used to. It happens to everyone. Sriman Narayana has a lot of responsibility. He naturally would, given that He is singularly responsible for the well-being of everyone. One of his responsibilities we know is to grant moksha to those who tried to gain it, more recently those who wished it. Also, it his responsibility to make sure that we realise Him. That we realise the Lord is the greatest event of the whole life of any Jiva. The whole premise of his actions (creation-sustenance-destruction cycle) are to give the Bhaktas innumerable chances in making them realise the Parama-Purusha. The importance of realising the Lord is therefore what he places the onus upon. This is also illustrated in several stories which we are familiar with. One of the most interesting examples I can think of is an episode between Yashoda Matha and Krishna. When Krishna was troubling her unduly, she wanted to punish him and took him to a mortar and decided she would tie him to it. She then saw a rope and assuming it would be long enough to tie him up, she took it and proceeded to tie him, only to find out that she was unable to because the rope was not long enough to do so. Then she went and picked another piece of rope, continuing to tell Krishna off for his misbehaviour, attached the two and this time too she was found to be short of rope, which came as a surprise to her. All mothers are reminded of older misdeeds of children and they have an uncanny way of correlating them with current events. Just like that Yashoda probably was blaming the flatulence of Krishna with how she was receiving numerous complaints about stealing butter, milk etc. And she was starting to tie him for the third time with a rope longer than the ones used in the previous attempts and Lo! she failed this time too. Then her anger turned to distraught and she pleaded with Krishna asking him to give in to her, and what happened? She was able to tie him up easily, and what more with a rope that was of a shorter measure than the ones used previously. Why could he not have complied the second time itself? It was to make Yashoda Matha realise Krishna. Nammalwar terms the Lord as " arrivariya appiraan " . It means that it is not possible for us to construct a conformed behavioural-model for what he does. It is therefore beyond us to question his Divinity in most cases. Also, what is important in this whole exercise is to realise that you and me are not having this conversation. The Krishna in you wanted you to query so as to make you realise Him, the Krishna in me has made me write this and send it to you. Also, the Krishna in one of the ramanuja- members forwarded this query to me. hope this little explanation was good enough. Let me now if anything is unconvincing. Dasan. ramanujan. -- 73 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Swamin Thanks a lot for a very vivid explanation.I totally agree that the ruchi in such subjects can come only when HE destines it.For that i am greatful to that lord. One more doubt arises in me.We r humans and so with our sixth sense we can understand that we have to surrender to realise the lord.What happens to lesser mortals say a fish in Ganga river does not understand the significance or the value of it.I have heard that unless gyanam is there even if u take bath in holy river it will be of no use.So what happens to such jeevatmas.Can u explain some thing about it. Kamini --- On Tue, 17/2/09, R Padmanabhan/ACCT/SBD/FENNER <padmanabhan wrote: R Padmanabhan/ACCT/SBD/FENNER <padmanabhan[sri ramanuja] Fw: REG Queryramanuja Cc: "vanamamalai" <vanamamalai >, "Sri Ramanuja" <ramanuja >, "oppiliappan" <oppiliappan >, "" , "divya desam" , parichayaDate: Tuesday, 17 February, 2009, 11:49 AM Ramanujan Iyengar <iyengar.r (AT) neu (DOT) edu> Sent by: ramanujank (AT) gmail (DOT) com 02/16/2009 10:28 PM To kamini1956 cc Subject REG Query Pranams, Your query is one that has the potential to stimulate a lot of interesting qualities of the Lord. All Jivas in this world try to break free of their bondage of their own accord. They have 5 sensory and 5 motor services which are available to them (courtesy of course, Sriman Narayana which we do not realise until it is too late). By virtue of these possesions, we assimilate many ways in which to solve our problems. We think that we can manage to tackle all our tough situations without any help from external sources.. This is a form of vanity. Something which happens to us unbeknown to us. There is always this undercurrent of assuredness and self-proclaimed puissance which we get used to. It happens to everyone. Sriman Narayana has a lot of responsibility. He naturally would, given that He is singularly responsible for the well-being of everyone. One of his responsibilities we know is to grant moksha to those who tried to gain it, more recently those who wished it. Also, it his responsibility to make sure that we realise Him. That we realise the Lord is the greatest event of the whole life of any Jiva. The whole premise of his actions (creation-sustenanc e-destruction cycle) are to give the Bhaktas innumerable chances in making them realise the Parama-Purusha. The importance of realising the Lord is therefore what he places the onus upon. This is also illustrated in several stories which we are familiar with. One of the most interesting examples I can think of is an episode between Yashoda Matha and Krishna. When Krishna was troubling her unduly, she wanted to punish him and took him to a mortar and decided she would tie him to it. She then saw a rope and assuming it would be long enough to tie him up, she took it and proceeded to tie him, only to find out that she was unable to because the rope was not long enough to do so. Then she went and picked another piece of rope, continuing to tell Krishna off for his misbehaviour, attached the two and this time too she was found to be short of rope, which came as a surprise to her. All mothers are reminded of older misdeeds of children and they have an uncanny way of correlating them with current events. Just like that Yashoda probably was blaming the flatulence of Krishna with how she was receiving numerous complaints about stealing butter, milk etc. And she was starting to tie him for the third time with a rope longer than the ones used in the previous attempts and Lo! she failed this time too. Then her anger turned to distraught and she pleaded with Krishna asking him to give in to her, and what happened? She was able to tie him up easily, and what more with a rope that was of a shorter measure than the ones used previously. Why could he not have complied the second time itself? It was to make Yashoda Matha realise Krishna. Nammalwar terms the Lord as "arrivariya appiraan". It means that it is not possible for us to construct a conformed behavioural- model for what he does. It is therefore beyond us to question his Divinity in most cases. Also, what is important in this whole exercise is to realise that you and me are not having this conversation. The Krishna in you wanted you to query so as to make you realise Him, the Krishna in me has made me write this and send it to you. Also, the Krishna in one of the ramanuja- s members forwarded this query to me. hope this little explanation was good enough. Let me now if anything is unconvincing. Dasan. ramanujan. -- 73 Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Dear Kamini The person one who want to realize the god himself has to leave the bad qualities like Anger, greedyness, jealous etc., These are all continuing for many births due to Rajo, Thama and satwa gunas because of ignorance of lord(based on bodily concept not realizing the soul is there). Once you keep on thinking about the super soul Narayanan these qualities slowly will go away and at that point of time you can realize god in yourself and everywhere. Rgds partha ramanuja From: kamini1956Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 15:55:40 +0530Re: [sri ramanuja] Fw: REG Query Swamin Thanks a lot for a very vivid explanation.I totally agree that the ruchi in such subjects can come only when HE destines it.For that i am greatful to that lord. One more doubt arises in me.We r humans and so with our sixth sense we can understand that we have to surrender to realise the lord.What happens to lesser mortals say a fish in Ganga river does not understand the significance or the value of it.I have heard that unless gyanam is there even if u take bath in holy river it will be of no use.So what happens to such jeevatmas.Can u explain some thing about it. Kamini --- On Tue, 17/2/09, R Padmanabhan/ACCT/SBD/FENNER <padmanabhan (AT) fennermail (DOT) com> wrote: R Padmanabhan/ACCT/SBD/FENNER <padmanabhan (AT) fennermail (DOT) com>[sri ramanuja] Fw: REG Queryramanuja Cc: "vanamamalai" <vanamamalai >, "Sri Ramanuja" <ramanuja >, "oppiliappan" <oppiliappan >, "" , "divya desam" , parichaya iyengaronlineTuesday, 17 February, 2009, 11:49 AM Ramanujan Iyengar <iyengar.r (AT) neu (DOT) edu> Sent by: ramanujank (AT) gmail (DOT) com 02/16/2009 10:28 PM To kamini1956 cc Subject REG Query Pranams, Your query is one that has the potential to stimulate a lot of interesting qualities of the Lord. All Jivas in this world try to break free of their bondage of their own accord. They have 5 sensory and 5 motor services which are available to them (courtesy of course, Sriman Narayana which we do not realise until it is too late). By virtue of these possesions, we assimilate many ways in which to solve our problems. We think that we can manage to tackle all our tough situations without any help from external sources.. This is a form of vanity. Something which happens to us unbeknown to us. There is always this undercurrent of assuredness and self-proclaimed puissance which we get used to. It happens to everyone. Sriman Narayana has a lot of responsibility. He naturally would, given that He is singularly responsible for the well-being of everyone. One of his responsibilities we know is to grant moksha to those who tried to gain it, more recently those who wished it. Also, it his responsibility to make sure that we realise Him. That we realise the Lord is the greatest event of the whole life of any Jiva. The whole premise of his actions (creation-sustenanc e-destruction cycle) are to give the Bhaktas innumerable chances in making them realise the Parama-Purusha. The importance of realising the Lord is therefore what he places the onus upon. This is also illustrated in several stories which we are familiar with. One of the most interesting examples I can think of is an episode between Yashoda Matha and Krishna. When Krishna was troubling her unduly, she wanted to punish him and took him to a mortar and decided she would tie him to it. She then saw a rope and assuming it would be long enough to tie him up, she took it and proceeded to tie him, only to find out that she was unable to because the rope was not long enough to do so. Then she went and picked another piece of rope, continuing to tell Krishna off for his misbehaviour, attached the two and this time too she was found to be short of rope, which came as a surprise to her. All mothers are reminded of older misdeeds of children and they have an uncanny way of correlating them with current events. Just like that Yashoda probably was blaming the flatulence of Krishna with how she was receiving numerous complaints about stealing butter, milk etc. And she was starting to tie him for the third time with a rope longer than the ones used in the previous attempts and Lo! she failed this time too. Then her anger turned to distraught and she pleaded with Krishna asking him to give in to her, and what happened? She was able to tie him up easily, and what more with a rope that was of a shorter measure than the ones used previously. Why could he not have complied the second time itself? It was to make Yashoda Matha realise Krishna. Nammalwar terms the Lord as "arrivariya appiraan". It means that it is not possible for us to construct a conformed behavioural- model for what he does. It is therefore beyond us to question his Divinity in most cases. Also, what is important in this whole exercise is to realise that you and me are not having this conversation. The Krishna in you wanted you to query so as to make you realise Him, the Krishna in me has made me write this and send it to you. Also, the Krishna in one of the ramanuja- s members forwarded this query to me. hope this little explanation was good enough. Let me now if anything is unconvincing. Dasan. ramanujan. -- 73 Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Voice your opinion on the burning issues of the day. Discuss, debate with the world. Logon to message boards on MSN. Try it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 AdiyenFirst of all i would plead with you to understand one basic thing.Emperuman is SHAASTHRAIKA SAMADHIGAMYAN..which means we know him only through shasthras.Sp please when you say ruchi in any soul is blessed is as per his wish then you are indirectly blaming of partiality (which in sampradayam is known as vaishamyam.Na samaha visamaha tasya bhavaha vaishamyam)When rt from Brahma to an ant is his creation and the sole purpose of his creation is to make all the badha aathmas attain salvation why would he individually intervene in a souls ruchi.Secondly if he blesses individual souls with ruchi then there would be no difference between Cit and acit tathvam.Thr whole universe is basically thathva thraiyaathmakam acit acit and easwaran.He would not handle a cit thathvam like acit thathvam.We must realise his superiority and surrender unto him.Seshathva gyanam should be the result of our chaithanyam.We must understand that As per shasthras there are no 5or 6 senses.That is unacceptable.There is only one gyanam.Even a goat know what it must eat and what not.It tries to save its life when a lion attacks it.Thaajya upaadeya gyaanam in all the souls are one and the same.All the Athmas are Gyaana swaroopoan and gyaana gunakan.Like the sun.The sun is mae of light and its rays are also made of light. Due to the karmas the soul attains a body which has limited power like the fish you have mentioned here.The limitations lies with the body and not the soul All the souls are equal..Adiyen dasikamini ranganathan <kamini1956ramanuja Sent: Tuesday, 17 February, 2009 3:55:40 PMRe: [sri ramanuja] Fw: REG Query Swamin Thanks a lot for a very vivid explanation. I totally agree that the ruchi in such subjects can come only when HE destines it.For that i am greatful to that lord. One more doubt arises in me.We r humans and so with our sixth sense we can understand that we have to surrender to realise the lord.What happens to lesser mortals say a fish in Ganga river does not understand the significance or the value of it.I have heard that unless gyanam is there even if u take bath in holy river it will be of no use.So what happens to such jeevatmas.Can u explain some thing about it. Kamini --- On Tue, 17/2/09, R Padmanabhan/ ACCT/SBD/ FENNER <padmanabhan@ fennermail. com> wrote: R Padmanabhan/ ACCT/SBD/ FENNER <padmanabhan@ fennermail. com>[sri ramanuja] Fw: REG Queryramanuja@ s.comCc: "vanamamalai" <vanamamalai>, "Sri Ramanuja" <ramanuja@ s.com>, "oppiliappan" <oppiliappan>, "" < >, "divya desam" <>, parichaya@grou ps.comiyengaronl ineTuesday, 17 February, 2009, 11:49 AM Ramanujan Iyengar <iyengar.r (AT) neu (DOT) edu> Sent by: ramanujank (AT) gmail (DOT) com 02/16/2009 10:28 PM To kamini1956 cc Subject REG Query Pranams, Your query is one that has the potential to stimulate a lot of interesting qualities of the Lord. All Jivas in this world try to break free of their bondage of their own accord. They have 5 sensory and 5 motor services which are available to them (courtesy of course, Sriman Narayana which we do not realise until it is too late). By virtue of these possesions, we assimilate many ways in which to solve our problems. We think that we can manage to tackle all our tough situations without any help from external sources.. This is a form of vanity. Something which happens to us unbeknown to us. There is always this undercurrent of assuredness and self-proclaimed puissance which we get used to. It happens to everyone. Sriman Narayana has a lot of responsibility. He naturally would, given that He is singularly responsible for the well-being of everyone. One of his responsibilities we know is to grant moksha to those who tried to gain it, more recently those who wished it. Also, it his responsibility to make sure that we realise Him. That we realise the Lord is the greatest event of the whole life of any Jiva. The whole premise of his actions (creation-sustenanc e-destruction cycle) are to give the Bhaktas innumerable chances in making them realise the Parama-Purusha. The importance of realising the Lord is therefore what he places the onus upon. This is also illustrated in several stories which we are familiar with. One of the most interesting examples I can think of is an episode between Yashoda Matha and Krishna. When Krishna was troubling her unduly, she wanted to punish him and took him to a mortar and decided she would tie him to it. She then saw a rope and assuming it would be long enough to tie him up, she took it and proceeded to tie him, only to find out that she was unable to because the rope was not long enough to do so. Then she went and picked another piece of rope, continuing to tell Krishna off for his misbehaviour, attached the two and this time too she was found to be short of rope, which came as a surprise to her. All mothers are reminded of older misdeeds of children and they have an uncanny way of correlating them with current events. Just like that Yashoda probably was blaming the flatulence of Krishna with how she was receiving numerous complaints about stealing butter, milk etc. And she was starting to tie him for the third time with a rope longer than the ones used in the previous attempts and Lo! she failed this time too. Then her anger turned to distraught and she pleaded with Krishna asking him to give in to her, and what happened? She was able to tie him up easily, and what more with a rope that was of a shorter measure than the ones used previously. Why could he not have complied the second time itself? It was to make Yashoda Matha realise Krishna. Nammalwar terms the Lord as "arrivariya appiraan". It means that it is not possible for us to construct a conformed behavioural- model for what he does. It is therefore beyond us to question his Divinity in most cases. Also, what is important in this whole exercise is to realise that you and me are not having this conversation. The Krishna in you wanted you to query so as to make you realise Him, the Krishna in me has made me write this and send it to you. Also, the Krishna in one of the ramanuja- s members forwarded this query to me. hope this little explanation was good enough. Let me now if anything is unconvincing. Dasan. ramanujan. -- 73 Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Pranams Adiyen opened a site for the benefit for all. Pl go the link and view (This site will be updated from time to time). Devotees can participate and clarify their doubts. http://www.vaishnavam.webs.com/ Ramanuja dasan Parthasarathy ramanuja CC: vanamamalai ; ramanuja ; oppiliappan ; ; ; parichayaFrom: padmanabhanDate: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:49:00 +0530[sri ramanuja] Fw: REG Query Ramanujan Iyengar <iyengar.r (AT) neu (DOT) edu> Sent by: ramanujank 02/16/2009 10:28 PM To kamini1956 cc Subject REG Query Pranams, Your query is one that has the potential to stimulate a lot of interesting qualities of the Lord. All Jivas in this world try to break free of their bondage of their own accord. They have 5 sensory and 5 motor services which are available to them (courtesy of course, Sriman Narayana which we do not realise until it is too late). By virtue of these possesions, we assimilate many ways in which to solve our problems. We think that we can manage to tackle all our tough situations without any help from external sources. This is a form of vanity. Something which happens to us unbeknown to us. There is always this undercurrent of assuredness and self-proclaimed puissance which we get used to. It happens to everyone. Sriman Narayana has a lot of responsibility. He naturally would, given that He is singularly responsible for the well-being of everyone. One of his responsibilities we know is to grant moksha to those who tried to gain it, more recently those who wished it. Also, it his responsibility to make sure that we realise Him. That we realise the Lord is the greatest event of the whole life of any Jiva. The whole premise of his actions (creation-sustenance-destruction cycle) are to give the Bhaktas innumerable chances in making them realise the Parama-Purusha. The importance of realising the Lord is therefore what he places the onus upon. This is also illustrated in several stories which we are familiar with. One of the most interesting examples I can think of is an episode between Yashoda Matha and Krishna. When Krishna was troubling her unduly, she wanted to punish him and took him to a mortar and decided she would tie him to it. She then saw a rope and assuming it would be long enough to tie him up, she took it and proceeded to tie him, only to find out that she was unable to because the rope was not long enough to do so. Then she went and picked another piece of rope, continuing to tell Krishna off for his misbehaviour, attached the two and this time too she was found to be short of rope, which came as a surprise to her. All mothers are reminded of older misdeeds of children and they have an uncanny way of correlating them with current events. Just like that Yashoda probably was blaming the flatulence of Krishna with how she was receiving numerous complaints about stealing butter, milk etc. And she was starting to tie him for the third time with a rope longer than the ones used in the previous attempts and Lo! she failed this time too. Then her anger turned to distraught and she pleaded with Krishna asking him to give in to her, and what happened? She was able to tie him up easily, and what more with a rope that was of a shorter measure than the ones used previously. Why could he not have complied the second time itself? It was to make Yashoda Matha realise Krishna. Nammalwar terms the Lord as "arrivariya appiraan". It means that it is not possible for us to construct a conformed behavioural-model for what he does. It is therefore beyond us to question his Divinity in most cases. Also, what is important in this whole exercise is to realise that you and me are not having this conversation. The Krishna in you wanted you to query so as to make you realise Him, the Krishna in me has made me write this and send it to you. Also, the Krishna in one of the ramanuja- members forwarded this query to me. hope this little explanation was good enough. Let me now if anything is unconvincing. Dasan. ramanujan. -- 73 How fun is this? IMing with just got better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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